Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Sam Oakes Talks to Jack Dudley about his career change, from teaching to financial advice and how to get a job in financial planning.

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Sam Oakes Talks to Jack Dudley about his career change, from teaching to financial advice and how to get a job in financial planning. · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: And today's guest on the Financial Planner Life podcast is Jack Dudley.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Jack is a financial planner who moved from one career to another.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: He actually started in the arms forces, ended up becoming a teacher and is now a financial planner.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: We're going to talk about his transition, what he's learned in his three-year journey of working within financial planning.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I think you're going to love this episode.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: So, jack, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: How are you?
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: I'm good, sam.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, it's a pleasure, you're absolutely welcome.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Well, thanks for coming on sharing your journey.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: The podcast is all about careers within the financial planning profession.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: We are at a stage, aren't we in the financial planning profession, where we're trying to attract new people to it, whether that's young people coming from school or coming from university.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: We're trying to create this kind of pathway, a little bit similar to accountants and solicitors, and I'd argue that we're struggling a little bit on that because there only seems to be self-employed options out there me and um a chap called uh rob, also um spoke about this quite recently on the podcast episode um, which will be released actually by the time this one goes out.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: We're talking about the difference between employed and self-employed.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: But you transitioned from a different career into financial planning, didn't you?
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: So why don't you into financial planning, didn't you?
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: So why don't you kick things off, jack?
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: What were you doing before you became a financial planner?
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: What was your background and experience?
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: To be honest, sam, I'm a bit of a mutt in terms of what I've done, where I've been, where I've been living, where I've grown up, all that kind of thing.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: So we'll be here till Christmas, I think, if I gave everybody my full life story.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: But effectively, right before going into financial advice, I was a teacher, so I went through an ex-forces teacher training program and then within that it allowed me to get a degree in teaching and education and then I spent two or three years in the classroom at secondary level teaching science.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Lots of parts of that are great.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Lots of parts of that are not so great.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: I think, as any other teacher that you speak to would tell you, they've got some huge, huge challenges in that industry.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: My wife's a teacher, so I'm very much on the pulse with what's going on and how she kind of has to deal with everything.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: But there's elements of it that I've really enjoyed and the relationships that I I built with kids going through sort of GCSE level 15, 16, old enough to have a proper conversation with and get a bit of sort of lip back from them and a bit of banter type stuff.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: The bit I didn't like so much was just the fact that it's just.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: You realize that schools are businesses, even in the state system.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: It's horrendous.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Everything is results driven, everything is a case of you know, we need to make sure kids are doing this, this, this, this and this, we need to be hitting these grades and that grade and all the rest of it, and it just becomes a bit of a chore and you're kind of just pulling a water wheel type thing.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: You know, you feel like you're somebody that's just there trying to get the kids through the system.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Um, and I I just thought that actually from a, you know, material point of view, from a going through, you could sort of stand at the front of the classroom and you know, you look out and everybody and you think these kids don't want to be here, like none of them.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: None of them are that interested in what we're talking about, um, but I liked the fact that I could stand there for an hour and get to know them and speak to them and find out about them, and you know it's a real skill that clearly I wasn't very good at at the time because I was obviously still teaching kind of getting to know the kids and what works and what makes them tick and you know understanding their backgrounds, so a lot of that.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I thought you know what I'm good with, numbers, I'm good with relationships and speaking to people and actually finding out about them what they're good at, and you know what they enjoy and what you know the other side of that, what they don't, um, and I thought there's just something better out there, almost, or something that I'm more suited to than than this.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of where I made a little bit of a fork in my own road yeah, absolutely um a few friends.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: You came from the forces, though, into teaching, so how long were you in the forces?
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: In what?
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: What part of?
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: it.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: So I was in the royal engineers for about just over four years.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: I did sort of the minimum and got out, um, you can see where this is going, can't you?
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: It's just done a few, few different bits and pieces, um, but no, I absolutely loved that.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Towards the end of it, a lot of it was around sort of newer guys coming through and kind of helping us.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: I worked more on sort of a tech side of things so we did a lot of mapping, imagery, kind of management of the ground and the air and all that kind of stuff which was quite interesting, quite geographic based.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: And obviously, going towards the later end of my time there, there were a few young guys coming through and helping them kind of adapt to what we do and how we do it.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: So there was always in the back of my mind I thought, you know, I was probably.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: How was I then?
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: 23, 24 at that point, maybe 25, um, and it took me a while to realize what I enjoy and what I'm good at and I thought actually I quite like this element of it.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: So there was a program that the MOD were running in line with the Department of Education, which was a troops to teachers course, so ex-military could jump on that for a two year bachelor's degree in depth kind of intensive program.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: And I thought you know what?
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: I'll do that please.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: I was leaving anyway, so I thought, why not, I'll do that please?
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Um, I was leaving anyway, so I thought, why not, let's give that a go?
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: Um, so I get hammered actually by my mates quite a lot and people I speak to and they all kind of go where do you live now, what you're doing now, what's your kind of career path now, all that kind of stuff which is, you know, part and parcel of it, I guess.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Um, but I've really enjoyed taking the time to focus on what I'm good at and what I'm not so good at, and what I like and what I don't like and, I think, kind of linking into the bigger question at the moment of how do we get more people in.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I think from a personality perspective, that's really important.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: I'm a big fan that life is a tapestry.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: We all go down different routes or we stay on the same road.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: You know, I've got friends who stayed in the same jobs for 20 years oh really, and yeah, same company.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: They might have progressed into different roles within the company but they kind of stayed in the same lane the whole time and I wouldn't say they're the most happiest of people and I do think like you, look at, look, I've had a career in recruitment.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: That was 15 years.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: I ran a recruitment business, I built a business, I built a financial life.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: So it's entrepreneurial, intrapreneurial within it.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Now people often say like, oh, should I stay here?
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: It looks bad on my cv if I move.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: These days it doesn't Like having a bit of variety and moving around different companies and seeing how different companies work and different professions work and different industries work in different types of roles actually becomes part of growing your skill set, growing your experience.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: And different challenges working in the armed forces and then working in a school they're fantastic backgrounds to build that um, discipline process, um, it's public service, uh, you are building a huge skill set that you're then thinking right, okay, you may not want to stay in it and that's cool, but you move on to something else, and then you move on to something else and now you're ending up in financial planning.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: So you got into financial planning at what age?
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: uh, so I started studying around.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: I must I was just thinking about this actually before we we spoke.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: I think it must have been 27, 28 so, yes, that's quite good age of the ro exams, um, in the summer of, it was covid, actually it was covid, it was 2020, so yeah, 27, 28, I'd have been.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Um, so yeah, quite, I said late, I don't know, I don't know, is that late, I don't know?
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: I guess, from your what's, what's a young advisor, what age would you say?
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: there's only about 150 advisors under the age of 25 or something, in the uk.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: To give you an idea, um can't remember the amount.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: They're under 30, but it's not much more so would you say in in your opinion, that somebody that is 30 or younger, I guess, if we're kind of putting a bar out there if somebody said to you he's a young advisor, she's a young advisor, whatever it might be, what would you say their age was If they were a young advisor?
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if they were described to you as a young advisor, what would you kind of put your finger on and guess their age?
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: 20s, okay, 20s, yeah, okay, um and to me that's cool.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: I think we should have advisors at all, all different ages.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think historically it's always been like you haven't got enough gray hair or you don't have enough life experience.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: I think age and life experience two separate things and skill set.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Two separate things.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, someone could be 23 years.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Two separate things and skill set are two separate things.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, someone could be 23 years old with the most insane skill set and drive and ambition intelligence, emotional intelligence.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes you might measure the wrong things.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: You might measure IQ against EQ, and if someone's got a really high IQ but really low EQ, are they going to be a really good face-to-face advisor?
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Regardless of age?
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: That doesn't matter.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Experience tends to build EQ, because it's you can actually build EQ, can't you?
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: You can build it up, as opposed to IQ like you do a brain training game.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: You just get really good at doing brain training games.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: You don't actually increase your IQ, but with respect to EQ, you can build it all up.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: So when I look at people who are younger, I'm thinking, well, okay, great, you want to be an advisor, no problem, right.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Tell me about your life, tell me what you've been up to, tell me about your experiences.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Tell me why you want to be a financial planner.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Tell me what you would do in this situation.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: You know how would you win new business and when you very quickly sort of turn over these stones and these um characteristics or traits that a good financial planner has.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: That's what we're looking for.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: So if they score 10 out of 10 on that, we're gonna shit what age they are.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: You know I'll be like right, I'll back you because you're showing all the attributes required to be a great financial planner.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Now, if you're showing two or three, I say you probably want to start somewhere in administration, power planning.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you might want to kind of move on up in that path, get some client-based experience.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: You might want to go and work in another profession, another industry for a bit.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: So you want to go and work in recruitment for a couple of years and do a full 360 recruitment role where you're going to learn some sales.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: You're going to learn some marketing, how to use linkedin and um, how to win new clients, win new business and manage process from start to finish.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: You know it's the transferable skills I think are the most important thing, not the age.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Now, you can.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: You can you teach those transferables.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Can you teach those skills?
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: I think you can.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: So if someone doesn't have them and you bring them into the business, I think you can.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: But they have to be shadowing, mentoring and watching and doing.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: You know they have to physically be doing it.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: I don't think you learn to be a salesman by reading a book, for instance.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: I think you learn to be a good salesman.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: You know in this example, I know people don't want to say financial planners are salesmen, but you know what I mean.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Um, I think you're a good salesman by getting out and making mistakes and failing a lot.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: You know and learning from your experiences yeah, absolutely, I think there's.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: There's just one thing you mentioned there actually that I was kind of wanted to come back to very quickly was around when you were starting this process.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: I cast my mind back a few years ago of speaking to people and where do I go from here?
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: How do I start getting into this industry?
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: And I quite often disagree with the notion that going into an admin role, onto power planning and then onto advising is always the right thing.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: It might be for some people, and I think, as you, kind of, what you're kind of referring to almost is being able to give people those skills and work on them so that the skill set they need to be a power planner is incredibly different for somebody that they needed to become a financial advisor or a financial planner.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: So I think there are kind of not you know, spats or such, but I kind of had a sort of lot of people coming back with comments and I see it nowadays of people where I was a few years ago where do I start?
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: I want to be an advisor and quite often you find that the reply is go into an admin role first, learn how the industry works.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Now that's fine.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I don't disagree with the, with the idea of learning how the business works and developing the specific skills, but as long as that's done.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: For that reason because I would be a terrible power planner horrendous I could probably list every power planner I know would know an awful lot more about financial advice than I do and I couldn't.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: I couldn't write a report or do the sort of technical side of things that they do well, but you know, without speaking for them, I'm sure that they would also say I really don't want to be an advisor.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: So I'm not sure actually that the two line up and I don't think it's a ladder progression.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I think it's more of a case of when I first started at you know, resolve, for example, I I kind of went in there thinking I'm happy to do the the admin side of things and learn, and I was quite quickly told you're not going to be doing that because you're going to hate it and you won't be good at it because you're going to be good at something else.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: And I think that's really brave from an employer's perspective if that's, you know, the kind of conversation we're having is being able to kind of, you know, say that to somebody and say look, I don't think you're suited to this.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: You're going to be beneficial to me as a business and as an employer if I put you in this role.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I understand and appreciate you know you're happy to kind of work your way up type thing, but I don't think it works in this industry, sam, I don't.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: I just think you could find some people end up leaving because they can't progress quickly enough, they can't get out of the role that they've been forced to do, ie power planning, for a few years, and then it's like, okay, well, then we'll train you to be an advisor and they think you know what sod this.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I can't, I can't be bothered to go through that.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know what your thoughts are on.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: On that, my thoughts are exactly the same.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: I think you know one thing first okay, you don't have to go down the admin power planner route to be a financial planner, yeah, but it does go back to okay.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Well, if you're going to go into being a financial planner, you better have the right mindset, attitude, skills, um, life experience.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I think you do need to have all those things right.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: These are the things that you need to have in spades, coming straight out of university and walking straight into a financial advisor role.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: I think that's completely unrealistic, exactly you wouldn't walk out of university and become an accountant or a solicitor.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: You would go through the process.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: You'd cut your teeth, you know, in understanding the business, going through the process, doing your qualifications alongside it and working towards the goal of becoming a financial planner.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: And I like the process that way.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: So if I say someone comes in straight from uni and straight into admin or anybody actually, but running alongside that was a career development plan that got them towards the goal of what they were looking for.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: So let's say they wanted to become a financial planner but they didn't hold the qualifications, qualifications.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: So it's like right, great, well, you're going to come in, you're going to work on a trainee financial planner career development plan.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Most companies haven't got that.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: They just chuck you in an admin role with absolutely zero ability to transfer your skills from admin to power planning, to financial advice.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: It's just if a role comes up and put you there.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: But we're probably not going to move you because we need you in that position and that's because there's a lot of small companies that don't invest in career development plans properly and this is the problem we actually have.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: But do you think sorry, so do you think that's down to money?
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Do you think that's down to money?
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Do you think that's down to the investability of spending?
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: I'll come on to that later.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: I think what we have is a lot of smaller businesses and I think a lot of people in those businesses running those businesses are now average age, 55 years old.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: I think they've seen a lot of change in the profession and they aren't building businesses to grow, they're building businesses now to exit and have the lifestyle that they need.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: So there's a handful of entrepreneurial businesses that want to grow.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Why would a business of an advisor let's say, 80, 55 years old average age be really thinking about investing in the next generation?
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Really they want to don't get me wrong, and there are a handful about that actually do, but it's the more entrepreneurial, growing companies are the ones that put these career development plans in place.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: So it kind of also goes back to the individual.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Let's say you go into a firm, you go in as an, you go in as an admin, you've been promised to become a financial planner, get your head down, understand some of the skills once you get a year under your belt and a few qualifications.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: And you might have to do those qualifications in the background because, again, these career development plans not all firms will actually push you to go down a study route and to upskill you and bring you in front of clients and all of that.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: My advice to anybody who's sitting in admin or power planning and feels like they want to leave the profession because they're not becoming a financial planner is get down all your transferable skills.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Get your qualifications to level four because you've got, let's say, a year or two years worth of experience within the financial planning profession, and market yourself out to all those companies that you want to work for as a financial advisor and outline what all your transferable skills are and why you want to become a financial planner.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: The problem is, if someone might sit in that role and go, oh, I'm not being promoted.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: It's like, well, you can go and find another job.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Then Go and find another job opportunity out there.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Get on the phone to a load of recruiters who's hiring, who's not hiring?
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Don't just rely on recruitment consultants, because recruitment consultants don't have every single job out there.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: So I give people there's a how to get a job in financial planning on my YouTube.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: It's a structure for marketing yourself to get a job in financial planning, with or without experience.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it works, it works.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: So admin power planner, financial advisor has its place, absolutely has its place.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Walking straight into a financial planner position has its place.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: We just need more opportunities like that.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: There aren't as many and I think it is down to either the risk involved in investing in somebody, because it takes them time to bring clients in and therefore justify their salary.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: So it's a short term mindset again, maybe because someone isn't thinking long term anymore about the growth of their business yeah, perhaps, and I think you're right.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I think it's that background experience, isn't it?
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: You either gain it as a youngster and earn your stripes you know the traditional route or you come in potentially older um, you know late 20s, such as some you know, like me, for example, um, and you kind of got that from other other areas and you've developed as a person.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: I'm a firm believer that we don't fully grow mentally and emotionally you know, probably emotionally ever, to be honest but to get to a stage where you understand processes and understand people, 25, 26.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: So I think if you're still younger than that, then perhaps you're right there, sam, and it can take a little while to kind of go through.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: But I also I'm a firm believer in.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of the problems that people are having at the moment is is if proving worth.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: So if I put myself now as a business owner, if I was to own my own firm now, I would probably want to find somebody that's at least done one or two exams off their own back.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Um, and I get that.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: It's easy for me to sit here and say just go and do the exams.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: They are pricey, I did all mine myself.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: Um, I'd managed to sort of negotiate with my wife at the time to say, look, I'm not going to be a teacher anymore, aren't you thinking, christ, what are you doing now?
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Um, and it's a case of like this is you know, I really want to do this.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: I've figured it out, I'm there.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: I promise you, this is the last sort of um you know, thing I needed to kind of uncover about myself in a way, um, and I said, right, here's the deal, I'll do all my exams in one summer holiday, because obviously in the teaching world we get a sort of six, seven week break, um, and we'll, at that point I'm then in a stronger position as well to go to you know, going back to you saying about the fear of changing and doing different jobs.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: You kind of worry about what people think around you.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: But having that kind of right, mr and mrs employer, here I am, here's my level four.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: I've done it all myself.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: That compared to being can I please have a job in in your firm and I'm willing to work my way up, but I don't have anything yet to prove to you that I'm going to be here for a long time.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's key and I know it's.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: It's not cheap.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: I think it probably with all materials and stuff, um, I'm quite lucky in that I good at exams.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: I'm just quite good at doing them.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: So I managed to get through them all first time and I know that's a really privileged position because there's some things I'm not so good at.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Um, and it still cost me probably about two and a half, three grand at the time with all the sort of study guides and stuff.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: So it's not cheap, um, but I do.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I do think there's a huge amount of value in that.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: I think we're kind of coming back to the bigger question of how do we get people through the door, how do we become more marketable as individuals.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: To appeal to an ifa, to appeal to a small firm, that's not the academy route, for example.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: You've got to, you've got to stand out from people that are trying to do the same thing.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Um, the salary part is a problem for sure, um, especially if you're coming on without a client bank, obviously you're costing that employer, you know, thousands and thousands of pounds, until you're at a point that you you're not costing them money through client acquisition, and that's difficult and that's obviously a different conversation.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: But that start point, that kind of I'm really stuck.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know how to get in.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: I I think if you can, if you're older and you're doing other things and you're taking a few years out of university to learn and become, you know who you are using that time to potentially then do an exam or two.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying complete the level four.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: I think that's quite unrealistic, but at least get halfway or you know, do the first three or whatever, because it just makes you look better I think I don't know what your thoughts are on that, but I just think it makes you understand.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: This is why why I set up the financial plan life academy.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: So the financial plan life academy is separate from the academies that are attached to, like mng or st james's place or quilter, or attached to a firm, because, um, and every one of those has its place.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: You know, my academy doesn't turn you, doesn't give you a job at the end as a financial planner.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: What it does is it gives you the um, the knowledge and the skills to be able to market yourself out to a firm that would take you on.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: So they have less investment and less risk and they see that you're serious.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Someone will come into my academy for $19.99 a month and don't even have to leave their job.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: They can get straight into training and development around the qualifications and learn some of the practical skills and soft skills and start to build community and start to ask me questions or people in the community questions and start to get a feel for the profession as a whole.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Because also as well, when you're outside looking in you don't quite know do I go ifa, do I go self-employed?
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Uh, do I go employed?
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: What's restricted?
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: You know what's cash flow forecasting?
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: You haven't really got a clue.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: So it gives us a kind of environment where someone can learn and then go hmm, do I actually want to do this or not?
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: If they do, they start to pursue it a little bit further.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: But if they don't, they can just walk away.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: And it's 1999 and they haven't taken a massive risk.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: And I saw that as a massive gap in the profession, which is why I created the Financial Planner Life Academy.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Going back on your earlier point, because I did think a little bit, you know, you said about money, these firms not wanting to grow or invest in people.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: For instance, is it about money?
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Pre pre-rdr okay, retail distribution review there was like 250 000 advisors, but most of them are like, linked into the banks as well.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the banks were the ones that employed people.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: And then in there you could go into a bank and you could start as a cashier, a personal banker or mortgage advisor, whatever, but you, the training development was insane and then you could move into financial advice on a restricted type basis really easily.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Um, but they were employed and at the time, right, you had all these people in the employed roles, prudential and all this sort of stuff as well.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Um, aviva, but you, um, you find it difficult if you wanted to move from those product providers into, um, the ifa, for example, right, most of those were self-employed.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: So when RDR happened and all these people got let go from the banks because the banks couldn't justify having them on anymore because of the fee structure, they were all looking for jobs and most of them had to go self-employed.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: So it's always really been a self-employed profession.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: And when people go into a business, employed, with advisors that have built firms, say, historically self-employed, their mindset is well, you're probably going to come in, I'm going to train you up, give you a load of money as a salary and you're going to leave and set your own business up.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: So there is, I think as well, that that mentality that they worry that people are going to come in, they spend all that money on training them and then they'll leave, of which it happens quite a lot.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: But again it comes down to well, what are you doing about securing that person in your business?
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: What are you offering them?
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: That's um, interesting, engaging, a career development plan, what's keeping them hooked into your business and not going elsewhere?
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Um, but again it comes down to like they don't really have an understanding of what that is and what that looks like and how to construct that within a business, and do they want it?
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Have they got the appetite to do that?
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Do they see themselves there in five to ten years?
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Enough to take on some people who were inexperienced?
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: And that's the problem we have, I think as well.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, so what was the question you just had?
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Because I went off on a tangent there?
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: I can't remember because I was just engrossed in your answer there to what we're talking about, but I think it was more a case of you know, like how the amount of sort of one-man bands that are out there in this profession compared to anything else is you?
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: know, it's just incomparable.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, there has to be a reason for that and I think, having spoken to a few, obviously I've not been in this industry long at all, so pre-rdr stuff for me is I ain't got a clue, I don't know it, I've never been involved in it, um, I've only known the way that the system works at the moment and going through that, I think a lot, of a lot of advisors that I speak to are either you know and I think it's a stat, I think somebody on the podcast the other day actually mentioned how many percentages of firms are three or four people or fewer, or whatever it might be um, and I think the reason for that is the nature of the job, so that you've got to trust somebody to come into your world, to come into people that are you know that you've known as an individual for a long, long time and you're going to be trusting that.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: You're bringing somebody on that has the same values as you, has the same beliefs as you, works the same way, has the same way of kind of communicating.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: You've got to fit the mold to the firm, but also to the actual employer themselves, and I think that's probably where the big naughty national companies rather you know, your sjps and quilters and schroders of this world have a little bit more of an advantage because they can take that risk on a little bit more, because they're just much, much bigger.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: So there's lots of things, I think, for employers to consider, and I think I've spoken to a lot of company owners and firm owners that have had staff and now don't have staff and there's one or two different reasons generally why that works out, and it's firstly from a client acquisition perspective, and then they're kind of sat there going.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Did I do enough to train them to be better at it, or were they just not very good at it?
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: That's one thing, and then the second thing is is, of course, the salary expectations as well.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Um, having gone through that myself, I I understand why that's difficult.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Because you can't.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: If you're an ifa firm and you're managing I don't know anything from 50 to 100 million, for example, you can't necessarily give load of clients away because ultimately you're losing some of your personal income as well.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: So I think it's like a really difficult car to drive and that the clutch bite point's really narrow so you're constantly stalling it because you kind of have to find it's such a narrow balance to kind of go.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: I need to take a bit of a risk here and employ somebody to grow, but so many things have to be right on both sides that it makes it almost impossible, and I often say I think I'm quite lucky in a way in the, in the way that I found my my way in I, I have a.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: I'm very lucky in my setup.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: At the moment I've just gone self-employed because I've had the support behind me to build up enough of a, an aum or an fum, whatever we want to use.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: So now enable me to cut that tie um but I couldn't have done it on my own, no way.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: There's too much.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: There's too much to do, there's too much to learn and I think, having done the exams beforehand, you kind of go in and it kind of comes back to my earlier point.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: You go in at a point where you say, right, mold those soft skills for me.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: I've done the hard skills, I've passed the exams.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Your, your investment in me now is just you letting me know how I need to act in this industry and what I need to develop.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: And you kind of start at a higher point.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: If you go in with one or two and you still got to do the level four, you're, you're costing potentially that employer money before they've even got to the bit that's important to them.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Does that make?
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: sense oh, you're bang on the money.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: So paul taylor came on the podcast and paul taylor cold called himself to 100 million.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Um, and he does training yesterday actually, yeah great episode, right?
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: yeah?
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: And paul taylor is on the same campus as me, right?
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: You get all these people who are qualified coming to the profession but they don't know how to do the job.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: So there is no training and development.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: That is on an internal basis, because the advisors are so busy and they can't train and develop people.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: So you really need to bring those external people in or have some form of community that can teach those skills.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: But it's not only teach them, but to mentor them, to get people to check in with them, to go on the journey with them, to teach them how to market, how to use LinkedIn, how to approach businesses to offer financial advice Actually old school sales getting itself out there.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Business development it's the most important part of this job.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, if I had five people coming into a business, right, and they had all the attributes and mindset and it was all there, but I taught them what to do, how to do it and why they should do it that way and set them some targets and all of that kind of thing and monitored it, you would have people fired up and geared up to want to do it If they came in and understood that it's a strong business development type role and you need to go out and win business and this is how we do it and we're going to invest in your training and development to do it.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: That would work a treat, and I've just joined Hoxton and Hoxton do exactly that.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: So, when you bring somebody in on what they call pathway, especially when you go out to somewhere like Dubaiai right, it's not easy, it's hard, um, and you have to have a certain mindset to approach business development out there, and there is more one, more than one way to skin a cat out there.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: They do brilliantly on lead generation so they can put leads in front of new advisors.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: That's another piece of the puzzle.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Not enough investment in marketing for these smaller firms, so they're not out there not generating leads.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Uh, for new people coming in right, some new business for them to get stuck into, because you know there's only so many breakfast meetings that you can approach um, so, yeah, going back to, like you know, training and development on an internal basis, I think is really, really important.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: That's massively lacking in the profession and always has done right, because they're smaller businesses and it's a cost to do that yeah, if you remove.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: What I'm saying is if you remove the cost of getting somebody qualified, and hence why I firmly believe that taking a few years to do the exams yourself, if you say, right, the employer looks at me as a brand new person, not the new exam, right, I need to pay five grand potentially for that.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: I've then got to do the training for this and then then we're starting.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: So the start.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: One thing, one thing I was told at the start of all this was the exams are just your ticket to the, to the party.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Once you're through the door, that's your start line so if you can cut costs down to a potential employer by doing some stuff off your own back.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: I, I get it.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: I get it's not cheap and it's not easy to do and you've got to really be disciplined to self-study.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: And people have got work and kids and wives and husbands and whatever it might be.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Um, it's not an easy thing to do, um, but I think if, if you're willing and able to do it, not only does it show a quality in an individual, but it also makes your life a lot easier when you're talking to employers.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: I've always said again it goes back.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: I've always said you've.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: If you hold some qualifications before you approach new um, before you market yourself out to wanting to enter the profession, it's going to look a million times better.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: 100, I always say to people.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: I say to people like, get a qualification under your belt, get into our academy, learn some of the soft skills and practical skills.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Familiarize yourself with the different things that advisors use, the tools that they use, uh, the market itself.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Educate yourself and then approach them.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: If you approach a firm in a way that's like I'm want to become a financial advisor.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: I've heard you crying out for people.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: I've got no qualifications.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: I've got no you know, understanding of what it is you do.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: But I just heard it.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: You know I could earn over a hundred thousand pounds in this profession.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: I'd really like to join it.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: People are like well, you know you need to go away and like really understand it.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: But again, it's a financial education piece.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: This is what we're doing here with the financial plan of life.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Someone might come here now instead learn about it and go ah, right, so that's what I need to do.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: So I'm with you 100, get your head down, get some qualifications, get that financial, financial planning, career education as well and have some talking pieces as to why.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Why is it you want to join the profession?
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Why is it you want to get in there?
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: What is it about you that's suited to the role?
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: What do you see yourself doing long term?
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Which route do you want to go down and why?
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: You know where areas do you think you might need some help?
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: And so it's a bit of self-reflection as well as required to be able to sit down with somebody.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: You can't just go cap in hand.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: It's not an industry or a profession like that.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: It's one where you've got to go with something, which is why I was saying like, when you've got that, then you market yourself, then you target specific companies that you want to work for.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: What did you do then?
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: how did you get in?
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: To get started initially, you mean, yeah, uh, so I basically used a?
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Uh, the cii I don't know if they still do it.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: They, they did a, um, an e-mentoring service.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: So they offer a variety of advisors that give up their time and they will basically say I will be a mentor to you for.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: So you basically have a directory of advisors.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: I think you could filter it by area or whatever.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Anyway, so I ended up kind of sending out a load of messages, a bit of a cold calling type thing, which it kind of is Hi, I'm Jack, this is what I'm doing, this is what I'm looking to do.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: I've looked into your business.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I've looked at you as an individual.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: I think you'd somebody that could help me.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I know it sounds really corporate and generic and unpersonal, but you get my point.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: And I was lucky enough that a certain individual reached back to that and said look, I think I could help you.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: I think I was halfway through my exams at this point Because, again, I thought, if I want someone to take me seriously, I need to have at least shown that I'm here and I'm willing to kind of take their time.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: So I thought, right, I'll do the first three exams and then I'll see what happens Ended up having loads of conversations with him.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: He gave up a lot of his time and I'll be forever thankful for that and he ended up being part of a network, which is what Resolve are part of now.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: And he put me in touch with the guys that run Resolve and said look, started speaking to Jack.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: I can't take him on at the moment because it's just not something I'm looking to do.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: I know you guys are.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: I think you'd be a perfect fit and that was it.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: And that led to me getting in touch with the guys there and they invited me up for a cup of tea and a chat and said, yeah, we'll take you.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: You fit exactly what we're looking for.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: You get on well with everybody.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: We're quite a young-ish firm in terms of average age Come and join us type thing.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: So there's an awful lot of and I think again, this is why it always comes back to you.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: If somebody's coming out of uni and is thinking of coming into this profession, I would probably advise that it's going to be a different experience than it would be if they took a few years to get a bit more under them.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: You know I'm one of these people that doesn't think that university is life experience.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: I don't at all.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's real, um, and I think nowadays kids coming out of school are probably looking it's going to flip a little bit back to what it used to be a few years ago, in that potentially the trades and college world are going to be kind of the more popular choice over university, because you get that experience from other stuff.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: You're in day-to-day work, you're doing things that are a little bit more real.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's real.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: You know, sitting on a friday, saturday, sunday night or even midweeks at university in halls getting pissed to me it's just not real life, um.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: So anyway, so that's kind of you know the.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: The one takeaway I have, I think, from all this is it's taking the time to do it in the right way from university as well.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Right, you don't have to go straight into financial planning, of course you can yeah?
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: go out there and apply right.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: But there are loads of different financial institutions out there.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Right, there's loads of different financial companies.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: I worked for Aviva.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: It was an interesting one, right.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I did a podcast with a guy called Rich McDaddy and he is one of the senior partners at Evelyn.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Right Looks after the whole of the Southwest, some of the most wealthiest families in the UK, definitely.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Right, building himself a little family office from the side of his desk, manages loads of people half a billion I think, and the management ridiculous.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: He was sat next to me at Viva.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, to know what.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: There's so many people that are now financial advisors and we were sat on the telephones answering questions about pensions and investments with profit bonds from clients that just wanted a valuation, or ifas that were phoning up.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: They wanted to get some evaluations for pension transfers and all that kind of stuff.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: And we had our training there about what a bond is and what are with.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Profits is what life protection is, and it was really good training.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: And then Aviva put us through our qualifications.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: So it was FPCs at the time, so FPC1.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Rich McDaddy he's now a chartered fellow running Evelyn Partners in the Southwest.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: So these other areas and these other avenues to go through and go in.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: They are there and they are big organizations that will take on grants, right, or people straight out of college or school, even some of these.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: So there's nothing wrong with going into a business, starting in a contact center, maybe for a pension company, um, an investment company, whatever and cutting your teeth.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: I mean bristol's got hargreaves Bank, which is a massive employer, aviva, royal Bank of Scotland, loads of companies right, go in there, get some experience, get your qualifications and start to run that alongside what it is you're doing.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: I mean that's a viable route in my eyes.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Why do you have to 100% go straight into it?
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: And I know we're crying out for more people and there will be firms that are going to be taking people on because they're going to have to take people on outside of the profession for it to grow.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a shadow of a doubt.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: But there are other routes, you know, and I like your angle.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Get your qualifications whilst and my angle then would be whilst in another financial type institution or another financial organization and, when the time's right, to be yourself across into an advice role and they'll look at that and go all right.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: So you've had some experience.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: You understand a bit about pensions.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: You understand a bit about life protection.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Mortgages is another great that's exactly what I was going to say, sam.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one of the biggest things, a big top tip, is get, get ro1 done and get I think it's cf6 I can't remember exactly what it is is but that gets you in the door to be able to give mortgage advice.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Now, companies may not use that and they may not do mortgages, but at least it shows that you are able then to take meetings, you can sit with clients, you are ready to have those conversations, which is a good start point for those soft skills that are so key to this.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: The exam's the easy bit really.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: In a way it's the kind of stuff that follows.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: So that's always my one takeaway.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: I should do more on LinkedIn to try and help answer questions.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: I see it all the time.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: I don't use it enough to be brutally honest, but seeing that is always you know what do I do, what's my top, you know anyone's got any strategies.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: That would be number one and you know it's so key and it just takes a lot of pressure off of employers.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you've got any stats, Sam, on things like turnover and people kind of entering the industry and leaving in the same time frame.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: That's one of the things within teaching and whatever else.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: That's so high is because you kind of get through the door and then it's just not enjoyable for anybody and the support's not there.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: That people leave after three or four years, and I'm a prime example of that.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: The support's not there that people leave after three or four years, and I'm a prime example of that.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: So it's it's building a sustainable environment for people to not only come in but also, you know, have a level ground and a sensible kind of solid floor under them to kind of keep going.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: I hate using analogies, but you get, you get my point yeah, so where'd you come in?
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: so what was your route in there?
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: So you how you know, how did you get in?
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: So do you knocked onto people's?
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: doors or yeah so literally I, I I spoke to um.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Are we?
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Are we naming names on on the pod?
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Is that all?
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: right or not, yeah, of course.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: So a really lovely chap at a company called switchfoot wealth um, called seb, uh sebastian.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: He gave me a lot of his time and he's part of the network that we're part, so we're an ar of of sense network um, and he effectively put me in touch with with stewart um, who's part of the network and he runs resolve um and I just a little bit of luck, to be honest, sam, in terms of the fact that they were connected and that seb knew of what stew was looking for and he was able to then kind of link us together and kind of make that happen.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: But it took a long time for me to kind of scour the cii stuff to begin with to find the right mentor for me.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: In the meantime I'd also got a list of all the ifa firms that were local to me as well.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: So I was ready to start firing off.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: You know, go straight to the snake's head almost, and speak to directors and say look, just doing a bit of research into your firm, really interested in what you do, people know what to put into these things.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: There's no need to kind of bend people's ear on how to put an email together or call someone.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: But it's just that initiative and I think it's one of those industries that if you've got a bit of initiative about you, then I think the luck comes.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: And you find that you put yourself out there enough and you do enough stuff to kind of get your way through the door, that there will at some point be something that bites and you get a bit of a fish on the end of the line and luckily, you kind of then have to work, doesn't it look good?
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: I wonder what to do with that.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Someone picks the phone up to me.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Someone phoned me yesterday.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Sam, you don't know who I am.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: I've just watched one of your youtube videos and I really want to become a financial advisor, so I thought I'd just give you a call and, like I was a bit busy, then I thought.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: You know, I tell people to do this sort of thing all the time, so I was like, I was like you got 10 minutes, you know, and I just respected the fact that he used his initiative.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, got shit done which straight to me yeah, yeah, it's courage and you rock up to a financial planning company and you say, look, you know I've done a bit of research.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Um, you're on the list.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: I'm really interested to find out a little bit about your business.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: By the way, I'm doing ro1, ro6.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Um, I'd love to be able to get stuck into a financial planning business and then, like, work my way up, so maybe start with protection business.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: I know I can do that without the full level four qualifications.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: This is my background.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: This is what I've done and this is why I want to become an advisor.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: You know, can I, can I come in and have a coffee with you?
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: I mean like yeah, it's really hard to say no to that you know exactly.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's really hard to say no 100.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: You'd have to be a bit of a dinosaur or a monster rather to kind of turn around to somebody and say, nah, I ain't got time for your mate, off you go um.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: But that's a good thing, because I said a no is a good thing.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Like people worry about rejection too much, right, go out and get 10 no's because you're gonna get a bloody yes at some point.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: You must get the no's.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Get rid of the no's because then you can strike them off your, your spreadsheet, like you said, right, put a spreadsheet, 25 companies.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Right, there's 25 opportunities.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Who the hell is not right for me?
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: and they're going to tell me straight away exactly right, they're not right, they're not right.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: They're not right.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: I guarantee you by the end of it there'll be something that's right or you will get really good steer and really good direction of what you need to do.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Don't be afraid of the rejection.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: 19 I've given people this guide.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Right, it's on youtube.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: I say all the time how to find a job in financial planning.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: If you want it, I'll put it in show notes and someone can watch it and listen to it.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Right, 95% of people will not do it.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so be that.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: 5% of people that will, and you will get something back.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: It's laws of attraction Go out, you get something back.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: It always happens Knock on.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: I did a job when I was younger.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: I knocked on doors, right, that was my job.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: I didn't go to university or anything like that.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: I left school, went knocked on people's doors trying to sell them like telecoms.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Horrible job in the pissing rain.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: It's fucking commission based even worse, right, and I'm just like what the fuck am I doing?
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: And it was a simple thing, right?
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: There's 100 doors.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Go and knock on 100 doors.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: If you sell to five of those, you're making 100 pang a day, I think it was, but there's other 95, though, sam, they're not permanently closed.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: I think that's a really big thing in this industry as well is finding that if you get a knockback, it might be that it's just not the right time for that firm.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean they don't like you or that you're not a fit for them, and quite often I found a lot of the time that I didn't.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Luckily I didn't have to go too far down the kind of road, if you like, before I ended up meeting up with stewart and getting set up at resolve.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: But it it meant that you know some people say, look, I think it'd be great but I just can't take you on at the moment.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: But in a year's time and even I've seen that how our firm has changed and we've brought a few extra bits pieces into the business just because not right at that time, it doesn't mean that you can't revisit and bang on that door again later, and I'm sure that you've.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: You know you can probably speak from experience on that, having done what you've just said you did.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: So it's, I think and again it all comes back to being that little bit older.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: I believe if I started this job at 23, 22, 23, fresh out of you, I wouldn't be doing it now.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't be doing it now because it's bloody hard, like it's really fucking hard as a job.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: So trying to get to a point where you build a bit of resilience, build a bit about you and kind of say, look, it's going to be a bit of a rough road getting in, but if you can just do what I think are really quite simple things to begin with, like a couple of exams and and kind of get yourself out there and start that process, I mean, if it was the other way around, I said, sam, you got any jobs and you'd be wanting to know.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: You know, what have I done to kind of at least work, work to a certain percentage of where you want me to be, to be beneficial to you, yeah, and if you're going in there with zero, you're just going to give me the middle finger and tell me to jog on.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: Probably wouldn't, but you know, in that yeah, so one of a better expression it's not going to do you any favor.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: So why would you?
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: Why would you give me all?
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: the old school approach, right, the proactive approach works.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Now there's a lot of people that would just go well, I need to go find a job.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: So you go to a job board.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, there's loads of.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: I've applied to 100 jobs and no one's come back to me, right, and that kind of doesn't really work like that well, I've gone to five recruitment agencies and they haven't got a job for me.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you why they haven't got a job for you because you haven't got the experience their clients are willing to pay a recruiter for, simply as that.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: So I can't place somebody who really wants to be a financial planner and has brilliant transferable skills but has no, no qualifications or done anything about actually becoming a financial planner.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: There is a, there is a, there is a thought process here where it's like don't be entitled, don't think that just because there's a need that you are needed right, you put some energy and effort into actually being wanted, and that means getting to know you yourself, what your skills are, and articulating that in multiple ways.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: So following on LinkedIn, connecting with people, commenting on posts, reaching out to those people, sending an email, picking up the telephone, knocking on somebody's door, getting a qualification, joining a community if you do all those things, something's going to happen and if you just expect to land on your lap and to people to give you a job.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: It's not going to happen.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: So change your mindset.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: Be the hunter.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Stop kind of like thinking I have to go and apply for a job online.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: No, you don't.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Just because it's a job advert on there.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: That's not the way you have to apply.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Right, there are more than one way to apply and there are more impactful ways to apply.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: You know there are different ways to do it, like linkedin's an amazing one, right?
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: So I want to be a financial advisor great.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: Well, go out and connect with 100 financial planners in your geographical location.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Go out and connect with as many power planners and as many administrators.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Build your little network.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: On LinkedIn, pay for Sales Navigator.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: You can see the size of the companies, where they're located, how many people are in the business, turnovers, how much attrition, how many people they've lost all that kind of stuff right, go and get that.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: It's free for a month.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Go and do that and follow a hundred companies and start to comment like, share their posts and reach out with messages by the end of that month two months, right.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: You will have some relationships and you will be able to then hopefully go out and visit them.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: If they don't reply to you, then you know that maybe they're not LinkedIn active and, in fact, linkedin navigator will tell you the last time that they were online.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: So if you're sending a message to somebody who hasn't been online for a year, they're probably not going to respond to you, right?
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you might want to be able to pick up the telephone to that person or send an email to that person or go to their website.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Right, that's another place, great place.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Go to their website.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Look at what they're up to.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: Who's in the business, who's not in the business?
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Are they still there?
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: It's a job mate finding a job yeah, it's a big time like you're learning skills as you do it.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: So when you actually go to the meeting with that person, you can turn around and say do you know what I did?
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: This is how I did it, this is what I did.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: I did this.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: I did this and I was in the community at next gen.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: I was in the community at financial plan of life.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: I listened to an episode with jack and he said this, and they'll be like.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: I had an email recently sam, just want to say you're doing an amazing job as an sjp guy.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Someone came in from the armed forces, wanted to be a financial planner.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: We sat him down but he started articulating all the episodes that he had listened to with you and your academy.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: No, I'm asking, I just want to say you're doing an amazing job of educating people, because he came in and he had something interesting to say exactly.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: That's amazing so obviously like it works, yeah, it happens.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: Right, you gotta make it happen.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: But whilst you're making it happen and it's horrible and uncomfortable sometimes, stepping outside of your comfort zone, right and making calls and all of that kind of stuff, but that's part of the job of being a financial advisor say, chin up and get on with it.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: You know that's a skill set learning.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: That is definitely a lot easier to do if you're doing something else at the same time.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: So if you're, if you're going in a bit later, you're likely going to be working or you're going to be doing something else and having it to do it yourself, you need a bit of money, you need a bit of kind of safety net under you.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: So I would always be recommending people that if you're going in a bit later, do it while you're working, doing something different, because you're not under then stress.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: If you don't find something from day one, it's okay, it's going to be a bit painful, it's going to hurt, you're going to have to spend some time doing it.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: But, like you say, everything you said, that is, it's something will give.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: If you kind of you know, cast off enough nets, you will eventually catch a fish, and you know it's, absolutely, it's kind of proof, really, that it does happen and it does work.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: It's.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: It's not an easy thing to do, um, it's not an easy industry to get into, but I think people could probably help themselves as much as possible to at least stand a chance of having somebody turn around and say, yes, I'll give you a chance, or yes, I'll at least give you my time.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: So three years in.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: How has it gone for you then working in financial planning?
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to sit here and say that I know everything and I'm really good at it, because I'm not going to sit here and say that I know everything and I'm really good at it because I'm not, because otherwise I'd have probably set up on my own and be earning hundreds of thousands of pounds a year and that's probably a successful thing to me.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: I guess, in a way, I'm not there, nowhere near it.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: The hardest thing I find is the same as everybody it's making, doing it long enough, building up enough relationships to generate organic referrals.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: And I think for me the satisfaction of this job comes from a, an email from a client to say just had a chat with so and so that I work with.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: He's going to get in touch with you because I've recommended you to him.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Now that to me is a massive.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: You know here's a bowl of ice cream.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: You know that's a treat.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: You know that's a real kind of.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: You know you've done something right there to make that happen and that to me at the moment doesn't happen enough.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: Um, so I'm having to kind of deal with the kind of patience element of it, um, working on different ways to start thinking about using marketing a bit more effectively.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: I think as a company, um, we need to probably do a little bit more around what we're what we're doing at the moment to kind of build on that and generate that organic, you know growth, um, I don't know.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: The next thing about marketing sound, to be honest, so I'm probably sounding like an absolute moron when I talk about it in front of you, um, but uh, yeah, that's the hardest.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: The hardest part is is building that reliable network where you've got two, three, four referrals a month coming in from existing clients.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: Um, I whinge about it.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: Stewart will tell you that I sit there and I chew his ear off about how it's not happening and what am I doing wrong.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: And you know I put so much time and effort into relationships and I'm constantly speaking to.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: You know the whole 80-20 rule type thing.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: I'm constantly kind of employing that and it's just not quite happening.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: So you then have to kind of sit back and go.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: Well, actually it will in time.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: It takes years for those sorts of things to come through and in years for those sorts of things to come through, and in the meantime we've got to work on other ways to to start bringing some other stuff through.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: So a lot of trial and error.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Um, I think I'm quite fortunate in that everybody that we work with at resolve we're all very like-minded.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, I've got a couple of genuine mentors at the company that I see personally as mentors, and you know, from a work perspective, and I'm quite fortunate to have that.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: So I'm not sitting here from a position saying everybody can do it because I've been quite lucky, I think.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, in terms of things that have gone well, I've always kind of set targets each year to kind of think I need to bring in X number of clients, a quarter, X number of clients a year, or you know, and on the other side of that, an AUM figure, and I feel as though I'm at peace with that at the moment, potentially kind of aligning what's realistic with what's just not achievable.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: That's taken a while to get, to get to the bottom of and get my head around, um, but I just, I just love the whole, the whole building of relationships with people and I quite like the challenge of being a younger advisor because I do kind of see, you know, you kind of have somebody say to you I'm looking for some advice.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: The chances are they're speaking to sort of three or four other people potentially, and I know that I'm probably going to be the youngest face that they see and I like that because I know that at that point I can kind of start saying to them around the whole long-term piece of it, looking at the relationship, they're going to know me and work with me until they're probably no longer on the earth, which to them is obviously a plus, because they've built years and years of trust and knowledge with with me, rather than having to chop and change with a retired advisor every every two years because they've moved on and they've got to work with somebody different.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: So I like that and I'm building ways to get that even stronger.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: Um, but believe me, I've got absolutely nowhere near everything figured out.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know what my next long-term move is.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: I think there's an element of sometimes you always want to know what the next thing is.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: So for me at the moment, I've knocked off two or three of the chartered level six exams.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not chartered yet, I plan to be, but two years ago it was right, I've done level four.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: Now it's level six.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: But it's like just get good at what you need to get good at and then the rest will come when there's more, you know, time.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: It's more suitable to do that, because being chartered versus not right now, clients don't really care.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: Ultimately the firm being chartered is useful, of course it is, but ultimately it's.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: They want to know that I'm doing a good job.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: Um, and you know they want to work with me rather than me saying here's another bit of paper that I've got.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: They don't give a shit, you know it's not.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: It's not crucial to them.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: Um, how much you're doing in the b2b space?
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: Uh, not a huge amount, to be brutally honest.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: Um, from from my level anyway, um, on a, on a sort of separate company level.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: As far as I know it's, it's kind of similar.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: We all kind of employ relatively similar tactics.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: Um, so not a lot, sam.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: To be honest, from from my side, there's lots of things I look at on a quarterly basis and think this needs to be better.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: I need to be better, I need to be doing more of this, less of that, um.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: Looking at what's working from a, from a kind of, you know, lead generation perspective.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: What isn't um, and the beauty of where we are, I think, is that we get the flexibility to be able to do those things and try things and fail at things, um, which, again, is quite a fortunate position to be in.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: So, um, yeah, in short, not not a huge amount but everything you're saying, you know, is about it's about failing forward, right?
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: You're going to saying you know, is about failing forward, right, you're going to fail so much and it's about failing forward.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: So failure is a bit of a negative word, isn't it?
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: It's just learning, mate.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: You're just finding your path and you're learning and you're experiencing what it's like to be an advisor.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: It's when you get into the mindset that, oh shit, this is hard, or oh no, I'm getting another door shoved in my face or another.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: No, it's the mindset of right, okay, well, what did I learn from that?
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: What?
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: What could I have done differently?
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: What could I have asked for some feedback?
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: How can I learn from this situation?
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: How could I go into it next time, completely, completely different, with a different approach?
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: And you just start to really fine-tune your approach and it is just repetitive over and over and over and over again.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: And that is anything when it comes to business development, not just financial advice.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: It could be any job.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: It is just getting up and going out there and speaking to as many people as you possibly can.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: You know, I I've just started at hoxton and um, I look at my diary and the financial plan of life and it's always full right.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: I've always got people in my diary.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: I'm always talking to people, always here's an interesting one for you, right, and things take time.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: I set the financial planner life up three and a half years ago as a podcast right To help me with the marketing of my recruitment company.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: So I'm joining Hoxton.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: Chris Ball was a guest on my podcast three years ago.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: He's the ceo of hoxton right, so guest on my podcast.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: I've got three people that are hopefully joining me.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: Each one of those people have been in my podcast over the last three years.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Someone's just joined.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: He was on my podcast when I went out to dubai.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: The companies that I met that were super interested in me coming on board were on my podcast.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: In fact, one of them I placed into dubai years ago and now he's running his own company, um if I go through the if I go through all these relationships that are now coming to me.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: They were formed years ago.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: So the people within my community, the tribe that I'm building, the people that I surrounded myself with and touch base with right, they didn't buy from me or of or let's say they weren't something of value for me.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: Now value is like not just money, right, it's connection, it's whatever introduction or whatever until later on, but they will be if I touch base and let them know I'm here, which is why I create content.
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: So not only does my content now like.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: Yesterday, seven people contacted me asking about working in Dubai all brilliant advisors.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: One woman contacted me via Instagram.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: She had nearly 30 million under management, transferable.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: It takes time to build an audience.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: It takes time to build a community.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: It takes time to build relationships, but if you keep doing it right, it happens.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: You keep asking for referrals.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: You keep asking for information, insight, expertise.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: Can you link me in with somebody?
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: Can you connect me there?
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: Can you teach me about what you do as an accountant?
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: Can you teach me what you do as a solicitor?
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: You know, if you're into a specific niche, go and speak to somebody within that niche that you share an interest.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: If you're a gamer, why not become the financial planner to the gaming community?
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: If you play golf, set up a golf society.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: One of the chaps who works for hoxton, you don't?
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: want to see me on a golf course, sam?
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: I don't think the course wants to see me on it either.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: To be fair, mate.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: He set up a community of his golf right and he loved playing golf and in the end, right people started knowing he was a financial advisor.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: He wasn't even talking about it.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: He was just networking for the long game and then networking for the short game in other areas.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: What are you doing about networking for the long game?
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: What are you doing about building a community?
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: What are you doing about building a tribe?
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: How are you communicating with these people?
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: Are you dropping them information?
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: Are you putting videos out?
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: Are you putting podcasts out?
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: Are you connecting with them on LinkedIn?
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: Are you checking in with them to see how they are at specific times of the year where they might need you?
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a full-time job, isn't it?
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, you might only see a client for three hours a year.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe even less than that, but the actual work that you put into that is a lot more no-transcript next thing, and you know how long is this going to take and how many years have I been working with this person and they've never referred anybody.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: Why.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: Why haven't they referred anybody to me?
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: What's the problem?
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: why not do it?
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: One thing I would say to you at this point right, I'm 42 years old.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, I am.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: My first job is in financial planning.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: I'm actually 42 years old.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to be a financial advisor.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: I enjoy what I do, which is creative social marketing to drive client engagement and candidate engagement, networking partnerships.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: That's me, that's my strength.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: What you just said a second ago, it will never change.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: It will never change.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: I never change.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: I just walked into a really good job.
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: I got financial power life.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: I just sold my recruitment company.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: My wife's still telling me to stop.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: Take, you know, stop putting so much stuff on your plate because you're stressing, you're anxious, you're worried, and I am.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: I'm always like it, I could always do better.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: I just had someone tell me a minute ago.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: I said I've been in two, two weeks, this is what I've done so far.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: And he's like oh my God, and you're worried about like, feeling like you're not doing enough.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: And I was like yeah, so you'll always feel like you're not doing enough Is that a personality thing, do you think, Sam?
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: Or is that just something that is constantly on your mind because of what you do?
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: Or do you think that's just a way that certain people are wired and never can get beyond?
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: that I think growth-orientated, ambitious individuals that also suffer, and I would say the word suffer is wrong.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: But our future thinkers not anxious, but future thinkers are often that way.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: People that are quite comfortable, quite introvert, quite relaxed and seek comfort are not that way right.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: They might whinge and moan and worry about other things.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: I do shit about it.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: I got a great rig for 42 years old.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: I can get up and go and run I can get up and go and run for half a marathon.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: Right, this second mate, if you're asking no problem.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: Go lift some serious weights, right.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do all those things because I want to be the best version of myself I possibly can, because I'm a future thinker, because I'm ambitious.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: You've just got to watch out toxic ambition, like when ambition becomes self-deprecating.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: So you have to catch yourself beating yourself up for not being the best right now and that you are actually working towards something that will never be the best.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: It's just ongoing self-improvement.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: There is no fucking lined crossover so it's just a mirage, isn't it?
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah you know, it's always the journey to the top of the mountain.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: That's the most enjoyable when you get to the top.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: It's not that great, but then you often think what's next?
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: I think that's a trap to fall into in this industry as well as you know like I said, with the exams, it's like right now it's charted, now it's potentially, you know what am I going to do in 10 years time?
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: It's just, it's just yeah, absolutely.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: And you, which is why you must, and this is why the profession needs to also adopt a little bit more about wellness and mental fitness and mental health, because it's the way we think that dictates how happy and successful we're going to be.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: And if you don't know it internally and know yourself, you're going to struggle.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: You don't know what those triggers are that set you off to feeling like when you're in your pillow at night thinking, oh, I could have done, I wish I did this, I wish I did that.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: It's just a thought process.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: On that note, I've got to jump off because I've got to um jump on another call, but it's been really lovely talking to you and I'm really pleased you got into the profession.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: Sounds like you are on a journey to success.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: It sounds to me like you've done some really good things.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: And if jack could meet jack three years ago, what would jack say to jack three years ago?
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: And what would jack three years ago say to jack today?
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: uh, three years ago I would have probably sort of told myself to strap in because it's going to be a bumpy ride.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: Um, and the other way around would be that it is a bumpy ride but it's not quite as bumpy as it could have been.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: When you kind of worry about stuff that could happen, it's not quite as bad as it seems.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: But you know, some aspects of it are harder than others and some are easier.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: Basically, do you think jack would go fair play mate?
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: So jack three years ago would look at you and think wow, fair play yeah, and I think probably my wife would now as well.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: I think back then she wasn't so keen on it.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: But, um, yeah, and I think a lot of vindication from from others is always quite to me.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: I always quite like that and myself being important as well, but I quite I think, you know, having that from other people is also quite a big thing.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: So, um, yeah, it's, it's a tough world, it's tough industry, but, um, you know, a few tweaks here and there and I think everyone will have a a fun time.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: But, um, thanks for having me on sam absolute pleasure.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: You're welcome.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining me.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: Jack appreciate it.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: Cheers.