Latest / Conspiracy! The Show / COINTELPRO Pt. 3: Leonard Peltier and the Pine Ridge Shootout

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COINTELPRO Pt. 3: Leonard Peltier and the Pine Ridge Shootout · Conspiracy! The Show

0:06
Speaker 1: Styliver. Sure we truly insurance? Did I'm true de trou
0:13
Speaker 1: I'm a checkup with insurance? Good actrue? Thing is wait
0:17
Speaker 1: the adults?
0:29
Speaker 2: Sure?
0:32
Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. Welcome to Conspiracy the Show. I'm your host
0:36
Speaker 1: Adam Todd Brown joining me as guest co host this
0:39
Speaker 1: week's at Johnston's here.
0:41
Speaker 2: How's it going, man, It's going pretty well, man, as
0:44
Speaker 2: well as it can be expected, given it's twenty twenty.
0:46
Speaker 1: Five, Given that it's twenty twenty five, and given the
0:49
Speaker 1: topic we're talking about today, some real bummer stuff. The
0:54
Speaker 1: short description of what we're talking about is that time
0:57
Speaker 1: in the seventies when the FBI essentially funded an insurgency
1:03
Speaker 1: on the Pine Ridge Sioux Reservation in South Dakota. Between
1:08
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three and nineteen seventy six, sixty nine members
1:12
Speaker 1: and supporters of the American Indian Movement died violently on
1:17
Speaker 1: that reservation. Another three hundred and fifty members and supporters
1:21
Speaker 1: were assaulted by way of stabbings, beating, shootings, and more.
1:25
Speaker 1: And it all happened at the very least under the
1:28
Speaker 1: supervision of the FBI, if not straight out funded by
1:33
Speaker 1: the FBI.
1:33
Speaker 2: Good times, very good times. And obviously we all learned
1:36
Speaker 2: our lesson. Yeah, and there were lots of committee meetings
1:40
Speaker 2: and trials, and we moved on into the country and
1:42
Speaker 2: everybody loves each other now.
1:44
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think this was the point where we bridged
1:47
Speaker 1: the divide, we healed as a nation, and you know, things,
1:51
Speaker 1: especially on reservations, now completely different.
1:54
Speaker 2: It's like everyone's at burgeon in Switzerland. Yeah, on fettered wealth,
1:58
Speaker 2: love and understanding. Yeah.
2:01
Speaker 1: I can't even go on. Man, We're even send an
2:04
Speaker 1: ice there now getting all the benefits of living in America.
2:08
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean that's a whole other story which
2:10
Speaker 2: actually relates to this, because it is the sort of
2:12
Speaker 2: thing where you look at these moments in history where
2:16
Speaker 2: especially the federal police, the federal bureaucracy in dealing with
2:19
Speaker 2: indigenous folks Indian country however we want to call it,
2:23
Speaker 2: and you see the parallels between. Oh, the American government
2:26
Speaker 2: has always had a capacity to be supremely evil. It's
2:30
Speaker 2: just that that was often pointed at people with brown
2:33
Speaker 2: skin who were locked away somewhere the average person didn't see.
2:37
Speaker 2: For me, I grew up with a father who was
2:40
Speaker 2: very political in the late sixties and early seventies, in
2:42
Speaker 2: the ame movement from the sco Comachinuion Reservation with ties
2:45
Speaker 2: to the Yakama Indian Reservation and Warm Springs and Hawaiian
2:50
Speaker 2: indigenous nationalism, whatever you want to call it, because Hawaiias
2:53
Speaker 2: don't get a reservation or a nation for some strange reason.
2:55
Speaker 2: But he told me stories about this movement, and Dick
2:59
Speaker 2: Wilson was a v very common name among people in
3:03
Speaker 2: Indian country. His goon squad. I mean, that's something that
3:06
Speaker 2: has lasted till the stay. There's a goon squad on
3:09
Speaker 2: the co Comas Reservation because we have a similar person
3:12
Speaker 2: in charge who doesn't even live on the res and
3:15
Speaker 2: you go against him and suddenly your truck might be
3:17
Speaker 2: burned to the ground by his goon squad. All this
3:20
Speaker 2: echoes today, Yeah, and it's sort of echoing beyond the
3:24
Speaker 2: borders of Indian country as well, in that FBI has
3:27
Speaker 2: never been your friend.
3:29
Speaker 1: I hate to break it to you. Yeah, And we
3:32
Speaker 1: have co Intel Pro in the title of this episode.
3:35
Speaker 1: And I know eagle eared listeners might be like bud Adam.
3:39
Speaker 1: Co Intel Pro ended in nineteen seventy three, and you
3:43
Speaker 1: said this carried on into nineteen seventy six, And that
3:46
Speaker 1: is exactly why this is part of the co Intel
3:48
Speaker 1: Pro episodes. Because shit like that doesn't end, they just
3:52
Speaker 1: give it a new name and keep doing it, rebranding, right. Yeah,
3:56
Speaker 1: even if what happened here, what we're talking about today
3:59
Speaker 1: didn't tell technically happen under the umbrella of co Intel Pro,
4:03
Speaker 1: it is co Intel Pro activities just continuing after that
4:07
Speaker 1: program is alleged to have ended.
4:10
Speaker 2: I think it's also important to note that, especially when
4:12
Speaker 2: you look at the FBI, it has always been a
4:14
Speaker 2: political organization. It was started out as a political organization
4:18
Speaker 2: to pursue whatever the behest of whatever asshole was in
4:22
Speaker 2: charge at the time, whether that be you know, fucking
4:24
Speaker 2: the FDR, GfK, Eisenhower, Nixon, Bush, Trump, It has always
4:31
Speaker 2: always been that, and co Intel Pro is probably the
4:33
Speaker 2: primus example of that from that era. But even before then,
4:37
Speaker 2: I mean, who do you think was knocking down the
4:39
Speaker 2: doors during the ONU American Committee years and he was
4:42
Speaker 2: fucking with Oppenheimer in fucking FBI.
4:44
Speaker 1: Man, It's always been a political organization.
4:46
Speaker 2: So not that I'm in any way being like, oh,
4:50
Speaker 2: Cash Betel.
4:51
Speaker 1: Is okay, he's a fucking idiot.
4:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's not anything new. It's exactly what the
4:57
Speaker 2: FBI always does. Yeah, and so this is prime example
5:01
Speaker 2: of how that FBI can really destroy your life and
5:06
Speaker 2: then just walk away and be like, eh, what are
5:08
Speaker 2: you can it do? Oh? Wait nothing, Okay, we'll just
5:10
Speaker 2: rebrand and move on do the same thing.
5:12
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it feels like kind of the same thing
5:14
Speaker 1: with mk ULTR. You hear the same thing where people
5:17
Speaker 1: are like, oh, mk Ultra also ended in nineteen seventy three,
5:20
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, one explain jonestown. That was great
5:25
Speaker 1: at the time. Lots of very credible voices in politics
5:29
Speaker 1: and the media both were like, was that the CIA?
5:32
Speaker 1: I think that might have been the CIA? And then
5:35
Speaker 1: after that there's all these cults and communes that start
5:38
Speaker 1: popping up, and it's like, do you not realize what happened?
5:41
Speaker 1: They just took it out of the hospital and moved
5:43
Speaker 1: it into the real world.
5:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean hell Mark David Chapman nineteen eighty Yeah,
5:49
Speaker 2: I mean, that's well after that, And there's not to
5:52
Speaker 2: get too after Brack, but there is a direct direct
5:55
Speaker 2: link in that the doctor who came to visit Mark
5:58
Speaker 2: David Chapman in prison was the head of an MK ultri.
6:01
Speaker 1: I don't know what else to say. What a coincidence, Yeah,
6:05
Speaker 1: a huge coincidence. So you already mentioned him a little bit.
6:08
Speaker 1: I think Dick Wilson is a good place to start.
6:11
Speaker 1: Not exactly the name people are probably expecting.
6:14
Speaker 2: To hear, Yeah, the good old Dick Wilson.
6:16
Speaker 1: But Dick Wilson is the name.
6:19
Speaker 2: I do have to say. It is a great name
6:21
Speaker 2: for a political banner. It's like, vote Dick Wilson this
6:24
Speaker 2: summer in Yeah, in the local election. Dick Wilson's on
6:27
Speaker 2: your side. Are also Dick Wilson Automotive. It sounds like
6:30
Speaker 2: you should be selling Ford trucks.
6:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I hope if when he ran
6:35
Speaker 1: for re election, I hope his campaign slogan was stick
6:38
Speaker 1: with Dick. I hope so too, because that would be good.
6:42
Speaker 1: I don't want that for him. He seems like an
6:44
Speaker 1: absolute monster, and I don't want happy. I mean, he's
6:47
Speaker 1: dead now, he died in I think nineteen ninety.
6:49
Speaker 2: But Dick Wilson is a perfect example of sort of
6:52
Speaker 2: the dichotomous nature of Indian country, wherein there's always been,
6:56
Speaker 2: always from even in the European colonial period in the
7:00
Speaker 2: fifteen sixteen seventeen hundreds, before the American colonial period, there's
7:03
Speaker 2: always been a cat or or a group of indigenous
7:07
Speaker 2: folks that side with the colonizers. They're just like, it's
7:10
Speaker 2: going to be easier if we work with these people
7:12
Speaker 2: and help with these people, and if we will, there's
7:16
Speaker 2: no way.
7:16
Speaker 1: They can kill us.
7:16
Speaker 2: All mentality of it, Yeah, And so Jick Wilson very
7:20
Speaker 2: much fell into, hey, let's work together and I'll get
7:23
Speaker 2: rich too. And I'm sure they'll never come for me
7:25
Speaker 2: and put me in death camp. And there's people that
7:28
Speaker 2: are always going to be that way. It's just the
7:30
Speaker 2: reality of it, right. And then the sort of dichotomy
7:33
Speaker 2: of that, I mean, I don't know what the percentage
7:34
Speaker 2: would be, but the dicotomy of that would be the
7:36
Speaker 2: people who are like read the room, read the writing
7:39
Speaker 2: of the wall.
7:39
Speaker 1: These people will never.
7:40
Speaker 2: Give us right, so they'll never accept us. We have
7:43
Speaker 2: to fight for every scrap we can get, and we
7:45
Speaker 2: have to stay true to who we are. Obviously, this
7:48
Speaker 2: plays a lot into the history of American Indigenous interaction
7:51
Speaker 2: wherein Jefferson to Grant, that was the extermination period where
7:56
Speaker 2: the US policy was the extermination policy, wherein they were
8:00
Speaker 2: fighting the wars, they were creating genocides across country. You
8:03
Speaker 2: had everything from Jackson ethnically cleansing most of the South
8:06
Speaker 2: and Midwest to Lincoln making all the Indians no longer
8:10
Speaker 2: war combatants but criminals fighting the merrit so he could
8:13
Speaker 2: just cause massive massacres and not have to treat Indians
8:16
Speaker 2: as war combatants. Completely different set of rules to basically
8:21
Speaker 2: Grant realizing that hey, we're spending like two million dollars
8:25
Speaker 2: a week fighting the Indians on the plains and we're losing.
8:28
Speaker 2: Thus came the assimilation period that goes up into the
8:31
Speaker 2: nineteen fifties, where the road hill is paved with good intentions,
8:35
Speaker 2: where they're like kill the Indians, save demands, similation schools,
8:39
Speaker 2: literally stealing children off of reservations sending them to these
8:41
Speaker 2: boarding schools, which lasted up into the seventies in reality,
8:45
Speaker 2: but really kind of shifted in the nineteen fifties with
8:48
Speaker 2: termination policy, which is what we're still in and that
8:50
Speaker 2: was about getting Indians off the reservation into urban areas,
8:54
Speaker 2: and in that process sort of taking more land away
8:57
Speaker 2: from reservations and giving it to the federal government and
8:59
Speaker 2: selling off. My point is actually valid here. I'm getting
9:02
Speaker 2: to a point because of the assimilation policy, a lot
9:05
Speaker 2: of the kids that came back to the reservations, the
9:07
Speaker 2: more traditionalists like, they're never going to accept us. Kind
9:10
Speaker 2: of there was this huge bifurcation of oh, you've been
9:13
Speaker 2: turned into a white American Indian as opposed to an
9:16
Speaker 2: actual Indigenous Indian, and the old traditionalists who still lived
9:20
Speaker 2: by the old ways did one hundred percent kind of
9:24
Speaker 2: push them away from society. So it's not surprising when
9:27
Speaker 2: you have someone like Dick Wilson, who was turned into
9:30
Speaker 2: the white man to save the Indian was pushed away
9:32
Speaker 2: from the more traditional society and went all in with
9:35
Speaker 2: the whites, with the Overboords. So during the termination era,
9:39
Speaker 2: it was very easy to find something like higher guns
9:42
Speaker 2: from the reservations to do his bidding, because they were
9:45
Speaker 2: probably going through a similar thing where they were ostracized
9:47
Speaker 2: from their grandparents or their aunts and uncles and didn't
9:50
Speaker 2: have a place per se in the traditional Indigenous community.
9:54
Speaker 2: And so my point being, none of this happens in
9:56
Speaker 2: a fucking back There's a very clear reason why people
9:59
Speaker 2: like Dick Wilson exis in his literical goon squad and
10:03
Speaker 2: people who fought them an aim existed, who were trying
10:06
Speaker 2: to preserve any little tiny scrap of culture we had left.
10:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of the first things that struck me
10:12
Speaker 1: about this is Dick Wilson versus Aim and what happened
10:17
Speaker 1: at Pine Ridge. I've seen it described as progressive versus
10:21
Speaker 1: traditionals or traditional lists, and yeah, I picked up pretty
10:26
Speaker 1: much right away that we're talking progressive in a different way. Yes,
10:29
Speaker 1: it's almost the opposite of progressive. There's a documentary about
10:34
Speaker 1: what we're talking about today called Incident at Oglala, very
10:37
Speaker 1: good documentary, and it's described in there as traditional beliefs
10:41
Speaker 1: versus people who were puppets of the government.
10:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was the point of the assimilation error,
10:46
Speaker 2: was to create those puppets. And it was all purposeful.
10:49
Speaker 1: You know.
10:49
Speaker 2: It's like, would you realize that all of this, even
10:52
Speaker 2: if you look at the indigenous thing, or how do
10:54
Speaker 2: you look at the Holocaust Alliance Insurance ensured the death
10:57
Speaker 2: camps for the Nazis during the Holocaust, Like this was
11:00
Speaker 2: all institutionalized, and this all had a purpose. It wasn't
11:04
Speaker 2: you know, the California genocide wasn't just a bunch of
11:06
Speaker 2: gold rush miners going in and accidentally killing all the Indians.
11:09
Speaker 2: It was like, no, California State created a law called
11:12
Speaker 2: the Protection of Indians that enslaved them. This stuff was very, very,
11:16
Speaker 2: very intentional, and the US government news like, Hey, even
11:19
Speaker 2: if we don't fully convert every Indian into a white man,
11:23
Speaker 2: quote unquote, we'll convert enough to be on our side
11:25
Speaker 2: to do our bidding when they do go back to
11:27
Speaker 2: the preservation, and that will just again the loot. And
11:30
Speaker 2: that's how you get somebody like fucking Dick Wilson.
11:32
Speaker 1: Yeah. It seems like there was also a land dispute
11:36
Speaker 1: at the center of this, in that there was a
11:40
Speaker 1: lawsuit filed in the seventies against the federal government over
11:43
Speaker 1: them taking the Black Hills in eighteen seventy seven, which
11:48
Speaker 1: was a violation of the eighteen sixty eight Treaty of
11:51
Speaker 1: Fort Laramie, Yes, that established the Great Sioux Reservation, And
11:55
Speaker 1: Wilson wanted to reach a settlement with the government over that,
11:58
Speaker 1: and the traditionalist wanted the Black Hills back.
12:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, they went their fucking land back. So what's interesting
12:04
Speaker 2: about the treaty is it basically I don't know the
12:07
Speaker 2: right verb to use here. Seeded allowed all of what's
12:11
Speaker 2: now South Dakota west of the Missouri River to the Lakota.
12:15
Speaker 2: It's like this is Inkean country, like Oklahoma was ceded
12:20
Speaker 2: to the Cherokee Chaka Chechsaw, you know, as they were
12:22
Speaker 2: ethnic cleans in the eighteen thirties, and then that was
12:25
Speaker 2: drastically whittled away during the Plains Wars to the small
12:28
Speaker 2: reservations you sort of have now Pine Ridge, Rosebud, et cetera.
12:32
Speaker 1: And so you win South Dakota.
12:34
Speaker 2: The whole half of the state west of the Missouri
12:36
Speaker 2: River is a lot of land. Yeah, it's a lot
12:39
Speaker 2: of valuable land as well, including I mean at the
12:41
Speaker 2: time they found gold in the Black Hills, so they
12:44
Speaker 2: were fucked. But most importantly, the whole thing in the
12:47
Speaker 2: Black Hills was about the value of it as a
12:50
Speaker 2: touristic endeavor, but the value of land, the sacredness of
12:52
Speaker 2: the land. But also the fact that Mount Rushmore was
12:54
Speaker 2: there as a very big middle finger to Indigenous people
12:57
Speaker 2: because that was carved into one of the most important
13:01
Speaker 2: spiritual mountains to the people there for genocidal maniacs on it.
13:05
Speaker 2: If you look at it from an indigenous POV. You
13:08
Speaker 2: guys can look that up yourself. So I'm not going
13:10
Speaker 2: to get into each one. But Dick Wilson wanted the
13:12
Speaker 2: money because if he got the money, he would be
13:14
Speaker 2: able to launder that money into his pockets, as a
13:17
Speaker 2: lot of various ver very white coated Indian chiefs often
13:22
Speaker 2: do to the stay and then he could stay in power.
13:24
Speaker 2: He would be able to probably retire to a villain
13:27
Speaker 2: Mexico and not have to worry about anything for the
13:29
Speaker 2: rest of his life. But you can't put a price
13:32
Speaker 2: on spiritual land, Like, it's just impossible.
13:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so the Supreme.
13:36
Speaker 2: Court has even tried to pay the Lakota people for
13:40
Speaker 2: the Black Hills, and they refuse the payment to this
13:42
Speaker 2: day because it's not about that. It's not about fucking money.
13:45
Speaker 2: And that's really hard for Americans to understand.
13:47
Speaker 1: To honestly, let's talk about AIM a little bit. American
13:51
Speaker 1: Indian movement founded in Minneapolis, Fucking Love Minneapolis in nineteen
13:56
Speaker 1: sixty eight to address the myriad issues facing American Indians
14:01
Speaker 1: at the time. Poverty, discrimination, police brutality, all the greatest
14:05
Speaker 1: hits they participated in, all sorts of cool shit, namely
14:09
Speaker 1: the occupation of Alcatraz, which will probably be its own
14:12
Speaker 1: episode at some point soon, seeing as how Alcatraz is
14:16
Speaker 1: back in the news.
14:17
Speaker 2: YEP also a valuable part of the Rainbow Coalition with
14:21
Speaker 2: Fred Hampton. Yeah, like we're involved there. But it is
14:24
Speaker 2: like going back to the termination policy of moving Indigenous
14:27
Speaker 2: folks into urban areas. This is a direct outcome of
14:31
Speaker 2: that policy. You moved Indians into the city.
14:33
Speaker 1: All the things you.
14:34
Speaker 2: Said just happened happened. You know, starlight tours are a
14:37
Speaker 2: real thing in Minnesota and North Dakota, and you put
14:39
Speaker 2: people in a situation like that, they're going to band
14:42
Speaker 2: together to protect themselves and demand just basic human rights.
14:46
Speaker 2: And this was an affront to the US government. Like
14:50
Speaker 2: how dare they? Was their response.
14:52
Speaker 1: Aim also did some other cool shit. They seized a
14:56
Speaker 1: replica of the Mayflower in Boston during an annivers celebration
15:01
Speaker 1: of the Pilgrims landing at Plymouth Rock, occupied Mount Rushmore
15:05
Speaker 1: for a few days. They staged a successful takeover of
15:08
Speaker 1: a Coastguard station along Lake Michigan in nineteen seventy one
15:12
Speaker 1: and kept it. They built the first Indian community school
15:15
Speaker 1: there and it operated until nineteen eighty. That's fucking brad. Yeah,
15:19
Speaker 1: also took over and occupied the Bureau of Indian Affairs
15:22
Speaker 1: building in nineteen seventy two, and that is really important
15:25
Speaker 1: to this story. Yeah.
15:27
Speaker 2: I think the Permit of Interior, which the Bureau of
15:30
Speaker 2: Indian Fairs is under, as I mentioned, we in Indian
15:34
Speaker 2: country are slotted in with national parks and wildlife and
15:38
Speaker 2: when it comes to US government.
15:39
Speaker 1: Because that's who the Department of Interior, that's normally what
15:42
Speaker 1: they oversee.
15:44
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, they oversee public LANs and public wildlife and
15:48
Speaker 2: that's basically it. And American Indians.
15:50
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's no intentional message being sent there.
15:53
Speaker 2: No, but it is very much a you just can't
15:55
Speaker 2: help but sign of just like come on, man, like, yeah,
15:58
Speaker 2: you haven't changed that almost one hundred and fifty years.
16:01
Speaker 2: And the BIA is a bureaucracy, man, it is meant
16:05
Speaker 2: to keep Indians down. I mean, it's a federal bureaucracy
16:09
Speaker 2: that as its own police force, has its own rules,
16:12
Speaker 2: has its own mechanictions that are there to treat us
16:16
Speaker 2: as second class citizens period. There's no other way to
16:18
Speaker 2: put it. And that's putting it nicely and occupying the
16:21
Speaker 2: Department of Interior and the Bureau of Indian Affairs offices.
16:24
Speaker 2: Is a very huge move to get international media attention
16:28
Speaker 2: right Like it was like, Hey, these people are supposed
16:30
Speaker 2: to be providing and this is the context. These people
16:32
Speaker 2: are supposed to be for fining us with healthcare, education,
16:35
Speaker 2: with housing, with food, and with security forever. The treaties said,
16:40
Speaker 2: in as long as the grass grows and the rivers flow,
16:43
Speaker 2: we will provide you with these five tenants of society, health, education, housing, food,
16:49
Speaker 2: and security.
16:50
Speaker 1: That was the deal.
16:51
Speaker 2: We gave you the land and the resources. You took
16:53
Speaker 2: that and didn't give us a cut, and in return
16:55
Speaker 2: you paid for that. Obviously, I think somebody might have
16:58
Speaker 2: had their fingers crossed behind their when they signed those
17:00
Speaker 2: treaties at him, because they were doing none of that,
17:03
Speaker 2: none whatsoever. I've spent my entire fucking life having people
17:07
Speaker 2: be like, oh, why are reservations so run down? And
17:10
Speaker 2: why do they live like that, and blah blah blah,
17:12
Speaker 2: and like why is it so depressed. It's like, come, motherfucker,
17:15
Speaker 2: because we can't pay for housing. The housing is built
17:19
Speaker 2: by the federal government. We can't pay for hospitals. Hospitals
17:21
Speaker 2: are built by the federal government. We can't pay for schools.
17:23
Speaker 2: They're paid for by the federal government. And there's no
17:25
Speaker 2: macagnation in our existence that allows us to do it
17:28
Speaker 2: on our own without Now, in some cases the ten
17:31
Speaker 2: percent having casinos to help fund that stuff or illicit means.
17:35
Speaker 2: And so for some people like Dick Wilson, illicit means
17:38
Speaker 2: for the only way to go as long as he
17:39
Speaker 2: got his cut.
17:40
Speaker 1: And so, in response to Ames's occupation of the Bureau
17:45
Speaker 1: of Indian Affairs building, the Oglala Sioux Tribal Council passed
17:49
Speaker 1: a bunch of resolutions, and the most important one was
17:52
Speaker 1: one that authorized Dick Wilson to quote take whatever action
17:56
Speaker 1: that he felt would be necessary to protect the law
18:00
Speaker 1: and property and to ensure the peace and dignity of
18:04
Speaker 1: the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation end quote And in his view,
18:08
Speaker 1: that gave him the authority to set up a secret
18:11
Speaker 1: police squad that was called the Guardians of the Oglala
18:14
Speaker 1: Nation aka Goon literally called the Goon Squad.
18:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not like that wasn't already a term
18:23
Speaker 2: that people knew it was bad.
18:25
Speaker 1: I mean, when you choose that.
18:28
Speaker 2: I mean, that's trump level of Hey, we're going to
18:31
Speaker 2: do the worst thing possible because we know you know
18:33
Speaker 2: what it means.
18:34
Speaker 1: It's suggested in a book that we're going to talk
18:37
Speaker 1: about later on called In the Spirit of Crazy Horse,
18:40
Speaker 1: which is a very long and detailed book about this incident.
18:43
Speaker 1: It suggested there that it wasn't so much that guardians
18:48
Speaker 1: of the Oglali nation picked that name first. It suggested
18:53
Speaker 1: that people started calling them a goon squad, and they
18:56
Speaker 1: were like, oh, yeah, goo n, that's perfect, let's call
18:59
Speaker 1: ourselves the goon squad. It's like, damn, they embraced it.
19:03
Speaker 1: That's crazy. It's dark, very dark.
19:06
Speaker 2: How is that different from people signing up to be
19:08
Speaker 2: a nice right now? Yeah, people are happily, gleefully doing
19:12
Speaker 2: horrific things because they're in a goon squad and they're
19:15
Speaker 2: wearing that ice proudly on their fucking shirt.
19:18
Speaker 1: Best case scenario, they're wearing it proudly on their shirts.
19:21
Speaker 1: Sometimes there's just no indication who they are. Yeah, exactly.
19:25
Speaker 2: It's sort of I don't want to get too philosophical here,
19:28
Speaker 2: but it's sort of I don't really believe in good
19:30
Speaker 2: and evil. I believe more in hard choices and easy choices.
19:33
Speaker 2: And if you're a poor piece of shit on a
19:34
Speaker 2: reservation and Dick Wilson comes to and be like, hey,
19:37
Speaker 2: I'll give you a salary and a house.
19:38
Speaker 1: And fucking food and blah blah blah.
19:40
Speaker 2: The easy choice is all you got to do is
19:42
Speaker 2: beat up who I say to beat up because you're
19:44
Speaker 2: probably already a meathead and a bully anyway. The easy
19:47
Speaker 2: choice is to take that job and do bad shit.
19:50
Speaker 2: The hard choices be like, no, man, I'm not going
19:52
Speaker 2: to beat up my own fucking people. I don't care
19:53
Speaker 2: how much money you pay me, and I'm going to
19:55
Speaker 2: actually fight against you easier hard, you know what I mean.
19:57
Speaker 2: And again, I hate to go back to, you know,
20:00
Speaker 2: the history of it all or the context of it all,
20:02
Speaker 2: but you know, we're talking about people who are living
20:05
Speaker 2: in one of the most depressed societies on the planet.
20:09
Speaker 2: Pine Ridge Engine Reservation, Rosba Wind River, all these reservations
20:12
Speaker 2: in the plains. You know, some of these places have
20:14
Speaker 2: lower life expectancy today than Iraq and Sudan and places
20:19
Speaker 2: like that.
20:19
Speaker 1: And that's today.
20:20
Speaker 2: I think about the sixties and seventies when a lot
20:22
Speaker 2: of these places barely had electricity or running water, and
20:25
Speaker 2: so you had somebody like Dick Wilson come along and
20:27
Speaker 2: be like, hey, I can literally.
20:28
Speaker 1: Give you a place to live in food and money.
20:31
Speaker 2: The easy choice might be to go bust some heads.
20:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's it seems like exactly what happened. The
20:37
Speaker 1: Goon Squad was made up of people who were essentially
20:39
Speaker 1: relying on Dick Wilson for money and for their living.
20:43
Speaker 1: It was also apparently funded through misappropriated highway safety funds.
20:49
Speaker 1: That's also according to the in the spirit of Crazy
20:52
Speaker 1: Horse Hook. Yeah, I remember that.
20:54
Speaker 2: It's the sort of thing where I just rewatched Independence
20:57
Speaker 2: Day with my kids because it's summertime. There's this great
21:01
Speaker 2: little scene where Jepko Bloom's dad is like in the
21:05
Speaker 2: background when they're talking about who's paying for Area fifty one,
21:07
Speaker 2: where's the salt money come from? And his dad times
21:09
Speaker 2: just like you don't really think of hammer costs twenty
21:12
Speaker 2: thousand dollars, do you.
21:14
Speaker 1: Yeah.
21:15
Speaker 2: It reminded me of that because it's like, I guarantee
21:17
Speaker 2: the highway patrol or whoever was like, oh, yeah, the
21:19
Speaker 2: repair on that bike was one hundred grand.
21:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're like okay. Also, there's no cars in
21:24
Speaker 1: South Dakota, so the highway probably didn't need that much
21:28
Speaker 1: up keep, especially not back then. Yeah.
21:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, god, yeah, there's like it's shocking. I spend a
21:33
Speaker 2: lot of time in South aagot to nowhere nears. I
21:35
Speaker 2: never lived there like you did, but like it's shocking
21:37
Speaker 2: how you'll be driving along the road and it will
21:38
Speaker 2: just turn to gravel.
21:39
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, there's still just barely a million people in
21:43
Speaker 1: that entire state. Yeah yeah, it is rule yeah, which
21:47
Speaker 1: is what makes all those killings on Pine Ridge in
21:50
Speaker 1: those three years so fucking shocking. That was the highest
21:53
Speaker 1: murder rate in the United States by far, well beyond Detroit,
21:57
Speaker 1: which at the time was the murder capital of the
21:59
Speaker 1: United States States. It's like South Dakota was.
22:03
Speaker 2: New York in the seventies, which everyone talks about how
22:05
Speaker 2: dangerous and wicked it was, and it's like still not
22:07
Speaker 2: as bad as being in South Dakotah.
22:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there were fifteen thousand people on Pine Ridge
22:12
Speaker 1: at that time. That murder rate. That's like fucking El
22:15
Speaker 1: Salvador before that. Boucel A guy, that's nuts. Welcome to
22:20
Speaker 1: Indian country, man, Yeah, like fucking insane.
22:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, and things haven't gotten too much better in that
22:26
Speaker 2: not to skip ahead. But you know the according to
22:29
Speaker 2: the fense, only three people were actually murdered during that time,
22:31
Speaker 2: not sixty nine, and the rest were mysterious. And that's
22:34
Speaker 2: the same today. I mean, when you look at murdered
22:36
Speaker 2: and missing the Indigenous Women movement, you know, and you
22:38
Speaker 2: know all these reservations where people just go missing, dispear
22:42
Speaker 2: get murdered all the time, and it's just either not
22:44
Speaker 2: even looked at or just brushed aside as must have
22:47
Speaker 2: been suicide or it must have been the weather, or
22:49
Speaker 2: literally they'll blame the weather before they blame an outsider.
22:53
Speaker 1: And again that nothing. None of this happens in a vacuum. Man.
22:56
Speaker 2: It's the institutions because on a reservation, some of them
22:59
Speaker 2: do have local police, but they have no power and
23:01
Speaker 2: actual crime crimes like murder or rape or kidnapping disappearance
23:05
Speaker 2: that has to be investigated by the FEDS, and the
23:08
Speaker 2: FEDS don't give a fuck.
23:09
Speaker 1: Yeah. And speaking of the BIA Police, they were the
23:14
Speaker 1: police in charge at the Pine Ridge Reservation, but they
23:19
Speaker 1: report directly to the FBI. And two of the top
23:23
Speaker 1: people in the BIA Police, a guy named Delmar Eastman
23:26
Speaker 1: and another guy named Dwayne Brewer were also leaders of
23:30
Speaker 1: the Goon Squad. So there's no question the FBI at
23:33
Speaker 1: the very least knew what the Goon Squad was doing.
23:37
Speaker 1: And it's obvious they knew. The question is, is that
23:40
Speaker 1: what the FBI wanted to happen?
23:42
Speaker 2: And Yeah, the FBI has always been there to ensure
23:46
Speaker 2: that Indigenous life is as hard as possible and make
23:50
Speaker 2: sure that nobody really sees what's going on on reservations.
23:52
Speaker 2: I know people went out of their way to think
23:55
Speaker 2: Killers of the Flower Moon was an amazing depiction of
23:57
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. It was shitty. It was a shitty
24:00
Speaker 2: the rest of them. Yeah, is it frame the FBI
24:02
Speaker 2: is coming into some sort of saviors. I was like, no,
24:04
Speaker 2: they came in to make sure that no one talked
24:07
Speaker 2: about this and what really happened, and that's not at
24:09
Speaker 2: all portrayed in the film obviously.
24:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, the FBI upholds the status quo that is the FBI.
24:15
Speaker 1: I think their main role in this country is make
24:18
Speaker 1: sure nothing fucking changes.
24:20
Speaker 2: Exactly, and it's always fucking been that way. I mean,
24:23
Speaker 2: they're afraid of anybody and everybody who wants to From
24:27
Speaker 2: Fred Hampton wanted to just give kids breakfasts. Yeah, all
24:31
Speaker 2: the way to Oppenheimer being like, hey, maybe we should
24:34
Speaker 2: be careful with nuclear weapons, all the way to you know,
24:37
Speaker 2: on reservations, we're like, hey, can we actually get what
24:40
Speaker 2: you guys promised us for our entire land? It's like
24:43
Speaker 2: none of that.
24:44
Speaker 1: So Dick Wilson, he's got this goon squad running wild
24:49
Speaker 1: and people don't like it as one would expect. So
24:53
Speaker 1: this effort is undertaken to get Dick Wilson out of
24:57
Speaker 1: office by way of impeachment, and that fails, and that
25:02
Speaker 1: I didn't know this was what led to the occupation
25:05
Speaker 1: of Wounded Knee, which was a seventy one day stand
25:09
Speaker 1: off where the town of Wounded Knee, South Dakota was
25:13
Speaker 1: occupied by A members and their supporters who were protesting
25:18
Speaker 1: the fact that Dick Wilson was still allowed to remain
25:21
Speaker 1: in his position. Yeah.
25:22
Speaker 2: I mean a lot of this comes down to, again,
25:24
Speaker 2: a push comes to shove. I mean, if you're not,
25:26
Speaker 2: I guess kind of a pertinent question today is like
25:30
Speaker 2: when does action like this need to happen? Because you know,
25:35
Speaker 2: coming from an American Indian movement and this time nothing was
25:38
Speaker 2: changing right, it was getting worse and worse, and any
25:41
Speaker 2: possibility of change was obviously not coming through Dick Wilson
25:44
Speaker 2: in that he was opingly working with the FEDS. And
25:48
Speaker 2: so when is it time to fucking pick up a
25:51
Speaker 2: gun and occupy a building and say, hey, we need rights,
25:54
Speaker 2: we need acknowledgement. And again pertinent questions today in that
25:59
Speaker 2: when is it right to pick up that rifle and
26:01
Speaker 2: be like, no, I won't do it any fucking more.
26:03
Speaker 1: It's over. And in this case, the FBI would have
26:07
Speaker 1: been the ones who would investigate all of these murders
26:10
Speaker 1: that happened at the time, but their argument was that, well,
26:15
Speaker 1: we just don't have the manpower to do it, Like
26:18
Speaker 1: we don't have enough agents. The Rapid City Office FBI
26:22
Speaker 1: agent in charge was named George o'clock, which how many
26:26
Speaker 1: times do you think that guy burst into a fucking
26:28
Speaker 1: packed bar and was like, it's George Clock every day, man,
26:33
Speaker 1: every day. And his argument was, well, we just don't
26:37
Speaker 1: have the man power to deal with this. Meanwhile, one,
26:41
Speaker 1: according to Ward Churchill, Georgie o'clock quote enjoyed the highest
26:46
Speaker 1: ratio of agents to citizens ever sustained in any area
26:50
Speaker 1: at any time in the history of the Bureau. And
26:53
Speaker 1: I believe that's true because the FBI did have enough
26:57
Speaker 1: free time to go after the victims of the Goon Squad.
27:02
Speaker 1: During nineteen seventy three alone, they amassed more than three
27:06
Speaker 1: hundred and sixteen thousand files on AIM and its membership,
27:12
Speaker 1: which that takes a significant amount of manpower. So I
27:16
Speaker 1: guess I understand why they couldn't investigate all those murders.
27:19
Speaker 1: They were busy investigating the people who were being murdered.
27:22
Speaker 2: And it's so fucking obvious too, the sleeper not even
27:25
Speaker 2: trying to hide their hand, right, it's just a latent.
27:28
Speaker 2: We can't openly kill you with the military anymore, so
27:31
Speaker 2: we'll just quietly kill you with the police. I mean,
27:34
Speaker 2: I don't know other way to put it, you know
27:35
Speaker 2: what I mean?
27:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that's exactly what it was. So what happens
27:40
Speaker 1: is at Pine Ridge they ask members of AIM to
27:44
Speaker 1: come help protect them because government's not going to do it,
27:47
Speaker 1: and this goon Squad is fucking killing everybody. They need
27:50
Speaker 1: help from somewhere. And thirty year old Leonard Peltier was
27:54
Speaker 1: one of the A members that decided to go. And
27:58
Speaker 1: that's a name people should RECOGNI. We'll talk about it
28:01
Speaker 1: more in a second.
28:02
Speaker 2: He was also big where I'm from because he had
28:04
Speaker 2: lived in Seattle for years before these events, and he
28:08
Speaker 2: had a house he shared in Seattle. Then he rented
28:12
Speaker 2: out the space is upstairs to American Indians who were
28:16
Speaker 2: in alcohol recovery and gave them a space to goker
28:19
Speaker 2: recovery and get their back on their feet and they'll
28:22
Speaker 2: find them jobs. And so he was very much a
28:25
Speaker 2: big figure in the community in the Pacific Northwest before
28:27
Speaker 2: all of this that we're about to talk about, Just
28:29
Speaker 2: to get a little context to who he was as
28:31
Speaker 2: a person.
28:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting to me that in researching this you
28:35
Speaker 1: still see some articles and papers that are like, Okay,
28:40
Speaker 1: I don't know if all of those deaths were actually murders.
28:43
Speaker 1: That's never been confirmed. Meanwhile, in the Incident at Oglala documentary,
28:49
Speaker 1: the person who says that is Bill Janklow, who is
28:53
Speaker 1: a dastardly man who we're going to talk about more later.
28:56
Speaker 1: But he was also the Attorney General of South Dakota
28:59
Speaker 1: at the time when those murders happened. So if anyone
29:03
Speaker 1: is going to be the person to say, yeah, that
29:06
Speaker 1: happened it's gonna be the fucking attorney general, Like, oh yeah,
29:09
Speaker 1: he would know. They didn't investigate that shit, so he
29:12
Speaker 1: knows the fucking murders happened.
29:13
Speaker 2: Any Wait, Adam, are you saying appointed attorney generals that
29:16
Speaker 2: are confirmed by a local legislator might have a political agenda.
29:21
Speaker 1: I would never suggest it, but it seems like from
29:23
Speaker 1: this possible it's it's possible, very possible. Yeah. Yeah, and
29:28
Speaker 1: man Janklo is such a fuck face, we're going to
29:30
Speaker 1: talk about him more. Yeah. It was a crime most
29:33
Speaker 1: foul that made the FBI finally enter the Pine Ridge
29:37
Speaker 1: Reservation and try to take some action.
29:40
Speaker 2: Did they kill someone? Did they kidnap some children and
29:42
Speaker 2: traffic them to Epstein's Island? What did they do?
29:44
Speaker 1: Zach? GE's so much worse? An eighteen year old AIM
29:48
Speaker 1: member awesomely named Jimmy Eagle was accused of stealing a
29:52
Speaker 1: pair of cowboy boots. Yeah, that's pretty dire. Used cowboy boots.
29:56
Speaker 1: Didn't even stroll into a cowboy boots store in snatch
30:00
Speaker 1: a fresh pair.
30:01
Speaker 2: As someone who wears boots, do you know how long
30:03
Speaker 2: it takes to break in a good pair of boots?
30:05
Speaker 1: At him? I guess that's a good point. Oh my god,
30:08
Speaker 1: it's ins insane.
30:09
Speaker 2: It's such a petty, petty reason, and it was a lie.
30:12
Speaker 1: They had no real intention of arresting Jimmy Eagle, but
30:16
Speaker 1: they somehow finagled the details of that crime into a felony,
30:21
Speaker 1: which gave them, in their mind, justification to enter Pine Ridge,
30:26
Speaker 1: And they first went in on June twenty fifth, nineteen
30:31
Speaker 1: seventy five. They stopped at the home of a woman
30:34
Speaker 1: named Wanda Sears and she tells them Jimmy Eagle's not there.
30:37
Speaker 1: So the two agents, Jack Kohler Ronald Williams, they leave,
30:42
Speaker 1: but they see three A members walking along the highway
30:45
Speaker 1: when they leave, and they picked them up. Those three
30:48
Speaker 1: A members Wish Draper, Mike Anderson, and Norman Charles. Those
30:53
Speaker 1: first two names very important later. But instead of asking
30:56
Speaker 1: about where Jimmy Eagle was, they just interrogated every one
31:00
Speaker 1: about who was living at this tent encampment that had
31:03
Speaker 1: popped up on this residence called Jumping Bull Ranch, and
31:07
Speaker 1: it was A members who were living there. Leonard Peltier
31:10
Speaker 1: was one of the people living there, and so that
31:13
Speaker 1: was the point they wanted a reason to go to
31:16
Speaker 1: pine Ridge and do some police shit, some busting' heads,
31:20
Speaker 1: and they just use this Jimmy Eagle thing as a
31:23
Speaker 1: pretext to do it. And so the next day they
31:27
Speaker 1: show back up and at approximately eleven fifty am Williams
31:33
Speaker 1: and Kohler. They're wearing plain clothes driving two separate unmarked cars.
31:38
Speaker 1: They're not obviously FBI by any stretch of the imagination.
31:42
Speaker 1: They enter Pine Ridge and at one point they start
31:45
Speaker 1: following a red and white pickup truck carrying Leonard Peltier,
31:50
Speaker 1: Norman Charles, and Joe Stunts. Three of them stop their
31:53
Speaker 1: truck at Jumping Bowl Ranch get out, and at that
31:56
Speaker 1: point a gunfight ensues. And it seems like this confrontation
32:01
Speaker 1: was the point of the FBI entering Pine Ridge on
32:05
Speaker 1: that day. They didn't want to arrest Jimmy Eagle. They
32:08
Speaker 1: wanted a violent confrontation with aims so they could be like, look,
32:11
Speaker 1: we got to get rid of them. They're violent. And
32:14
Speaker 1: meanwhile the two agents shot first. So these people they
32:17
Speaker 1: are following, there's two unmarked vehicles behind them. There's no lights,
32:21
Speaker 1: there's no sirens, there's no badges. They're just being aggressively
32:25
Speaker 1: pursued by two cars, they stop, get out. They have guns,
32:29
Speaker 1: but the FBI agents also have guns. They get out,
32:32
Speaker 1: they start shooting. First, a gunfight ensues. Two FBI agents
32:37
Speaker 1: are killed, those two Williams and Kohler, and Joe Stunts
32:41
Speaker 1: is killed also. And there's an interesting detail I found,
32:45
Speaker 1: which is that these two agents apparently thought they were
32:48
Speaker 1: going to have a bunch of backup from Bureau of
32:52
Speaker 1: Indian Affairs police, and also there was another FBI agent there,
32:56
Speaker 1: and for some reason, that backup didn't act. They did
33:00
Speaker 1: not enter this gunfight. And I feel like there's only
33:04
Speaker 1: two possible explanations. They're one, they just thought, well, two
33:08
Speaker 1: dead agents would really fucking sell our case against Dame.
33:12
Speaker 1: But also, this shootout happened where there's women and children,
33:16
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't be surprised if that backup was, like
33:19
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, they're just shooting where all these kids and
33:23
Speaker 1: women are.
33:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think they'd have a problem with that personally.
33:26
Speaker 2: But that's also I fully understand that's just me being
33:30
Speaker 2: kind of worst case scenario guy.
33:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's also me being best case scenario. Yeah.
33:35
Speaker 2: My POV is there's no question they went on the
33:38
Speaker 2: reservation and to start some shit with some A members,
33:40
Speaker 2: and it was the sort of thing where nobody says
33:42
Speaker 2: the quiet part out loud, but it's like, oh, if
33:44
Speaker 2: we get in a shootout and some agents get injured,
33:48
Speaker 2: that's enough for us to go in full right, right,
33:51
Speaker 2: And that's enough for us to arrest some of these
33:52
Speaker 2: guys and make examples of them. And it's a tried
33:56
Speaker 2: and true tactic of everything from Colin tel Pro to
33:59
Speaker 2: just basic counterinsurgency, where it's like you put yourself in
34:03
Speaker 2: a situation where you're going to be able to say, hey,
34:06
Speaker 2: look at what these crazy people done to us. We
34:08
Speaker 2: got to do something about it. And everyone's like, yep,
34:10
Speaker 2: there's no possibility that this is happening in one percent
34:13
Speaker 2: of below board. There's nosso sharing as black leg operations
34:16
Speaker 2: right right, And it's just so to me, it's painfully obvious.
34:20
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, what are they doing. They're literally following
34:23
Speaker 2: people around it on marked cars in communities, in rural
34:26
Speaker 2: areas and like harassing people constantly. That shit comes to
34:32
Speaker 2: a head at a point, right, Yeah, if you're being
34:34
Speaker 2: followed in an on marked car for two days and
34:37
Speaker 2: being harassed by these people and they jump out of
34:39
Speaker 2: the car and start shooting at you. Everybody has a
34:41
Speaker 2: gun on the reservation, man, and they know that. And
34:44
Speaker 2: it's the sort of thing where, I mean, get into
34:46
Speaker 2: what happens afterwards, but it seems painfully obvious that is
34:50
Speaker 2: a purposeful incitement.
34:51
Speaker 1: And that's absolutely a co intel pro tactic. Was yeah, yeah, right.
34:56
Speaker 1: If you can get any sort of charges filed against people,
34:59
Speaker 1: any thing you can do to make them look like
35:02
Speaker 1: a problem, you do it. And it seems like this
35:04
Speaker 1: was just another attempt to make aim look like some
35:07
Speaker 1: especially violent outfit. Yeah, oh god.
35:10
Speaker 2: I remember even in the fucking eighties where there is
35:14
Speaker 2: a contingent who in Indian country who were very much
35:18
Speaker 2: still on the Dick Wilson side of things, the progressives
35:21
Speaker 2: who are like, they killed two FBI agents, how dare
35:25
Speaker 2: they do something so criminal. It's like when people get
35:29
Speaker 2: really mad at cop gets killed in a shootout, and
35:31
Speaker 2: it's like a cop not killed, it's the end of
35:33
Speaker 2: the fucking world. And it's like context, man, context. Yeah, Like, yeah,
35:38
Speaker 2: it is tragic when a public serving gets killed in
35:40
Speaker 2: the line of duty, and there are tragic cases, please
35:43
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, but this ain't that.
35:45
Speaker 1: No, things are never that fucking black and white.
35:49
Speaker 2: Especially on fucking Pine Ridge. Like I don't mean to
35:52
Speaker 2: be like, oh, this is some special case, but it
35:55
Speaker 2: is a special case. Pine Ridge is still registered as
35:57
Speaker 2: a fucking prisoner of war camp.
35:59
Speaker 1: According to the US guy Jesus, this.
36:01
Speaker 2: Isn't another county or another state. It is a place
36:05
Speaker 2: that is institutionalized concentration camp. It is a place where
36:09
Speaker 2: people have been in prison for the last one hundred
36:12
Speaker 2: and fifty fucking years. And it's this place where Americans
36:16
Speaker 2: who are not Indians can go and murder and rape
36:18
Speaker 2: with impunity because they know the Feds don't give a
36:20
Speaker 2: fuck because of all shit like this. And it's the
36:22
Speaker 2: same on the other your fucking Crow or Blackfoot or
36:25
Speaker 2: any of those reservations to a degree. And it's just frustrating, man,
36:29
Speaker 2: because I guarantee you people even listening to this will
36:32
Speaker 2: be like, well, but did they have to kill them?
36:34
Speaker 2: And it's like, whoa what were they hiding? And to
36:37
Speaker 2: this day to the point where to skip ahead, but
36:40
Speaker 2: Leonard Peltier, there's a fifty year story coming well.
36:43
Speaker 1: And also not to skip ahead, but people who would
36:46
Speaker 1: ask that question, do they ever take into account that
36:49
Speaker 1: the other two were acquitted and essentially on self defense grounds,
36:54
Speaker 1: were essentially why the other two were acquitted.
36:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, oh my god, it's so frustrating.
36:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the like important context. But yeah, we're getting ahead.
37:04
Speaker 1: So a man hunt ensues. At one point, AM members
37:08
Speaker 1: Norman Charles and Michael Anderson, who was one of the
37:12
Speaker 1: three men who were picked up the day before the shooting,
37:15
Speaker 1: and questioned about who was living at that tent encampment.
37:18
Speaker 1: They were driving Peltier's station wagon near Wichita when the
37:23
Speaker 1: ammunition they were hauling exploded, and Cohler's three O eight
37:27
Speaker 1: rifle and an AR fifteen were found in the burned
37:30
Speaker 1: remains of the vehicle. Peltier was stopped in Oregon, but
37:34
Speaker 1: fled on foot after a brief shootout. Cohler's handgun was
37:38
Speaker 1: found in a bag with Peltier's fingerprints on it. Do
37:41
Speaker 1: we believe any of that, I.
37:42
Speaker 2: Mean from the FBI. No, His fingerprints were on file,
37:46
Speaker 2: And you can easily place a fingerprint on something without
37:48
Speaker 2: having the person there if you're the fucking FBI.
37:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's just so fucking convenient if you were
37:54
Speaker 1: the person who shot that FBI agent, Why would you
37:58
Speaker 1: then take his gun and keep it. That would be shit, right,
38:01
Speaker 1: Like you fucking melt that thing down or something. Get
38:04
Speaker 1: rid of that river?
38:06
Speaker 2: Yeah anything, so.
38:07
Speaker 1: Many rivers in South Dakota.
38:09
Speaker 2: But Adam, he ran, and only guilty people run.
38:12
Speaker 1: Oh that's a great point. I didn't even think about that.
38:16
Speaker 2: There's no reason he would run if someone came to like, hey,
38:19
Speaker 2: these guys are going to come after you for this,
38:20
Speaker 2: you gotta go. That can'ts that's impossible. He read, you know,
38:24
Speaker 2: only guilty people run.
38:25
Speaker 1: Did he not have faith in the American justice system
38:28
Speaker 1: to find him not guilty?
38:29
Speaker 2: I mean it's a constitutional promise that you get a
38:32
Speaker 2: lawyer in a fair trial, man.
38:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a flawless system. I think he could have
38:37
Speaker 1: just trusted it.
38:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, especially at the federal level. Yeah.
38:41
Speaker 1: So Leonard Peltier was finally arrested in Canada like six
38:45
Speaker 1: months after this happened or so.
38:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's a common thing man. Back then, a
38:50
Speaker 2: lot of people would runway to Canada to disappear, including
38:55
Speaker 2: members of my family who are still there.
38:58
Speaker 1: Yeah.
38:58
Speaker 2: And so this is another thing that mean that the
39:01
Speaker 2: US government had such a ridiculous hard on to get
39:05
Speaker 2: these guys. Is it's rare that Canada would send back
39:08
Speaker 2: somebody like this, Yeah, like super rare. I mean think
39:11
Speaker 2: of all, even like taking a wider view, like all
39:14
Speaker 2: the Vietnam Draft authors who are still up there, like
39:17
Speaker 2: those guys got sent back. Yeah, And so this to
39:20
Speaker 2: me is.
39:20
Speaker 1: A big red flag. They wanted to make a point, right,
39:23
Speaker 1: and they end up getting him extradited using statements from
39:28
Speaker 1: a woman who lived on Pine Ridge named Myrtle por
39:31
Speaker 1: Bear and Zach. You're not going to believe this, but
39:35
Speaker 1: her statements seem like they were maybe probably definitely absolutely
39:40
Speaker 1: coerced by the FBI. Shocking, I know, shocking. I think
39:45
Speaker 1: the first documented incident of the FBI coercing a statement
39:48
Speaker 1: out of someone.
39:49
Speaker 2: Probably yeah, again under duress, under harassment. No no, no, no,
39:54
Speaker 2: I mean whatever she said must have been one percent factual.
39:58
Speaker 2: There's no way the FBI I and would harass someone
40:01
Speaker 2: into saying what they wanted and force them to sign
40:03
Speaker 2: a piece of paper to that. No, I mean, that
40:06
Speaker 2: just seems out. It's way way out of line.
40:09
Speaker 1: They told her they had photos of her running from
40:12
Speaker 1: the scene of the shooting and that they were going
40:14
Speaker 1: to charge her for being involved in it, and that
40:17
Speaker 1: she would lose her kids as a result. Question.
40:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, who was calm and collected enough to be taking
40:23
Speaker 2: photos at the scene during the shooting to identify people
40:27
Speaker 2: running away but not who was shooting the fucking FBI agents?
40:32
Speaker 1: Yeah? What the fuck? I didn't even think about that.
40:34
Speaker 2: Sorry? Can I have checked your honor? I mean, like,
40:39
Speaker 2: what is happening?
40:40
Speaker 1: Yeah? Where did the pictures come from? So many questions?
40:44
Speaker 1: Who's the photographer? Yeah? What else was on that role
40:48
Speaker 1: of film? Myrtle Porbear said this. The first time I
40:51
Speaker 1: ever met the FBI agents was at the school. That's
40:53
Speaker 1: when they came down and told me that I was
40:55
Speaker 1: involved in a shootout and they had photos of me
40:57
Speaker 1: running and doing this and that then they start a
41:00
Speaker 1: threatening me about my daughter. They said that they were
41:02
Speaker 1: going to take her away from me and that I
41:04
Speaker 1: wasn't ever going to see her again, and I had
41:06
Speaker 1: to cooperate with them, and I started and they say, well,
41:10
Speaker 1: you're gonna say this, and we're going to make you
41:12
Speaker 1: say it, and if you don't say it, then you're
41:14
Speaker 1: not going to see your daughter anymore. End quote. That
41:17
Speaker 1: was Myrtle Porbear in the incident at Oglala documentary, and
41:21
Speaker 1: it's also mentioned in that documentary she gave one affidavit
41:25
Speaker 1: initially and then, as if by magic, four days later,
41:28
Speaker 1: gives another one that is completely identical, except there was
41:31
Speaker 1: one sentence in the original one where she said she
41:34
Speaker 1: was not present when the shooting happened. In the second affidavit,
41:37
Speaker 1: that sentence was changed to I was there. I'm Leonard
41:40
Speaker 1: Peltier's girlfriend, and I saw him shoot FBI agents. Even
41:45
Speaker 1: the part about her being his girlfriend was a lie.
41:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just like insane. As a welcome to the
41:51
Speaker 2: fucking machine man.
41:52
Speaker 1: She also mentioned that they during her interrogation, showed her
41:56
Speaker 1: pictures of the dead body of activist Anime Aquash and
42:02
Speaker 1: they were like, this could be you if you keep
42:05
Speaker 1: acting up.
42:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and again, this is already the seventies,
42:09
Speaker 2: but these are tried, tested and true tactics from Colin
42:12
Speaker 2: Telpro in the black panther community.
42:14
Speaker 1: In the sixties.
42:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, they did all this shit and did it well
42:17
Speaker 2: enough that it almost I mean, it did destroy that
42:20
Speaker 2: movement to the point where you know, for a lot
42:22
Speaker 2: of people, it's still like nobody even knows who the
42:24
Speaker 2: fuck friend Hampton is. Yeah, yeah, outside of a very
42:28
Speaker 2: small niche of that community, which is super depressing of
42:30
Speaker 2: how successful this shit is. So by the time they're
42:33
Speaker 2: doing this in the mid seventies, this is old hand.
42:35
Speaker 2: They know it's going to work.
42:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have it down to a science by this point.
42:39
Speaker 2: It's sad man too, because I mean, again, I'm not
42:42
Speaker 2: trying to speak for everyone, but I know these people,
42:45
Speaker 2: and I grew up with these people. These people are
42:47
Speaker 2: literally members of my family, not these specific people, but like,
42:50
Speaker 2: the lack of education that these people received back then
42:54
Speaker 2: and to this day makes them such easy targets for
42:57
Speaker 2: manipulation like this. And I'm not saying that the people
43:00
Speaker 2: are stupid or have low intelligence or anything like that.
43:03
Speaker 2: I'm saying they weren't given a fucking education. Yeah, and
43:05
Speaker 2: then are they're put into situations where a often white,
43:10
Speaker 2: fucking person of authority comes in and is like, Hey,
43:12
Speaker 2: this is how it's going to go, and there's no
43:15
Speaker 2: way to fight back if you're not even fucking educated.
43:18
Speaker 1: Yeah.
43:18
Speaker 2: In the first place, it's just it's on top of
43:21
Speaker 2: on top of on top of you know, and it's
43:22
Speaker 2: no excuse, but it just makes the FBI's job even easier.
43:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you get to add another layer to
43:29
Speaker 1: that with the story of Norman Brown, right exactly. He
43:32
Speaker 1: was an AM member who the FBI pulled a similar
43:35
Speaker 1: stunt to convince him to say he saw Peltier and
43:39
Speaker 1: the other two shoot these agents. This is a quote.
43:41
Speaker 1: They kept coming to a point where who killed the agents?
43:44
Speaker 1: We know, you know who killed them. We know you
43:46
Speaker 1: saw Leonard, Bob and Darryl. And they kept going on
43:49
Speaker 1: and on. I had two counts of first degree murder
43:52
Speaker 1: against me, so being there by myself no choice, I
43:55
Speaker 1: sort of went along with them, you know. And it's
43:57
Speaker 1: wrong because it wasn't true. That's Norman Brown in the
44:00
Speaker 1: Oglalad documentary. Important detail. He was fifteen at the time.
44:04
Speaker 2: Yeah he's a kid. Yeah, he's a kid who probably
44:08
Speaker 2: lived a very, very close.
44:10
Speaker 1: To the bone life as well.
44:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, very I mean, it's just kind of
44:15
Speaker 2: it's just disgusting.
44:17
Speaker 1: It is. And then there's Wish Draper, one of the
44:20
Speaker 1: three men who were picked up and questioned about the
44:23
Speaker 1: tent encampment the day before the shooting. Two FBI agents,
44:26
Speaker 1: James Doyle and Charles Stapleton, strapped him to a chair
44:30
Speaker 1: for three hours in his cell and as if by magic.
44:34
Speaker 1: He eventually gave a statement that he had seen Leonard Peltier,
44:37
Speaker 1: Robert Robudo, and Daryl Butler kill FBI agents.
44:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean again sort of. I think I don't
44:46
Speaker 2: mean to repeat myself, but I think I said this
44:48
Speaker 2: up top.
44:48
Speaker 1: Or maybe when we were talking before.
44:50
Speaker 2: But all of this, if you're from Indian country and
44:52
Speaker 2: you see a lot of the shit that happens now
44:54
Speaker 2: outside of Indian country, and the disgustingness of ice prisons
44:58
Speaker 2: or just what we did in Iraq with prisoners and
45:01
Speaker 2: shit like that, it's like it's all happened to us before,
45:05
Speaker 2: and then you see it start happening outside the reservation.
45:07
Speaker 2: You're sort of like, well, welcome to the reservation, man.
45:10
Speaker 2: Yes it's cold in here, but we can all huddle together.
45:13
Speaker 1: Maybe.
45:13
Speaker 2: But also it's like, what the fuck is wrong with Americans? Man?
45:17
Speaker 2: What the fuck is wrong with white Americans? Where they're
45:19
Speaker 2: just like or in power Americans, they don't necessarily have
45:22
Speaker 2: to be white, where this is just like this level
45:25
Speaker 2: of torture and inhumanity, and just like, to what fucking
45:29
Speaker 2: end even at this point, And.
45:31
Speaker 1: It's why I get so frustrated with the oh I
45:34
Speaker 1: don't believe conspiracy theories, crowd. We have so many centuries
45:39
Speaker 1: of history to show what this American government is like
45:43
Speaker 1: and how they treat people who aren't in the class
45:46
Speaker 1: that they prefer. Yes, our whole fucking history. But every
45:50
Speaker 1: time you'll get these people who are like, oh, the
45:52
Speaker 1: government wouldn't do that. They fucking would.
45:55
Speaker 2: They just haven't done it to you yet, right, that's
45:57
Speaker 2: all it is, right, And they're really trying to change.
46:01
Speaker 1: That right now. Yeah they're common. Yeah, worry, they're common.
46:05
Speaker 2: They'll get to you, don't worry. It's sort of it
46:06
Speaker 2: just yeah, like I said, for me, man, it's the
46:08
Speaker 2: sort of thing where I've got to a part of
46:10
Speaker 2: my life where this doesn't bring me down as much anymore.
46:13
Speaker 2: Where I used to sort of get caught up in
46:15
Speaker 2: the emotion of it and let it kind of make
46:17
Speaker 2: me very depressed and things like that. It's kind of
46:19
Speaker 2: come to a point where this is a reality, and
46:22
Speaker 2: in the acceptance of that reality, there's a bit of
46:25
Speaker 2: freedom in that. It's more important that people know this
46:29
Speaker 2: so they know what's coming than sort of wallowing in
46:32
Speaker 2: the ship. Because it is becoming a more and more
46:35
Speaker 2: shared experience, very disgustingly, very sadly. That is not what
46:39
Speaker 2: my intention is. But it is the sort of thing
46:41
Speaker 2: where not to derail this, but there's reason. Most of
46:44
Speaker 2: the faces you see being deported from this country from
46:47
Speaker 2: all the way back the Clinton years, where indigenous faces
46:49
Speaker 2: from Central and South America. They weren't the white ones.
46:53
Speaker 1: Yeah you know what I mean.
46:54
Speaker 2: Anna di Armus isn't getting fucking sent back to Cuba
46:57
Speaker 2: because she's Spanish, right right.
46:59
Speaker 1: Let's be real here, even with a place like Venezuela,
47:02
Speaker 1: we don't hate the entire government. No, there's white people
47:06
Speaker 1: in Venezuela. We just prefer the one that ruled before
47:09
Speaker 1: Chavez that was all white dudes.
47:11
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and then an indigenous guy got elected and.
47:13
Speaker 1: All broke woos. We were not happy.
47:16
Speaker 2: I mean, look at how we treat Argentina, man, that
47:18
Speaker 2: is a white South American country, largely Spanish. There's indigenous
47:22
Speaker 2: people there who got genocided and live as second class citizens.
47:25
Speaker 1: Don't know they exist.
47:26
Speaker 2: But hey, Argentina's cool, right sort of thing?
47:29
Speaker 1: Right the World cup? Man, how bad can they be? Yeah?
47:32
Speaker 2: Again, I don't need a derail, but it's sort of
47:34
Speaker 2: the whole Like if you even if you go back
47:36
Speaker 2: to what is it, the Grease or Act in the
47:38
Speaker 2: eighteen fifties, where the actual words of that was Spanish Indians.
47:43
Speaker 2: It was like indians who happened to speak Spanish that
47:46
Speaker 2: were part of getting Mexico those all you know, California, Utah, Mexico, Arizona,
47:51
Speaker 2: the Guadalupe Act that gave Mexican citizens US citizenship in
47:54
Speaker 2: those territories, and Americans were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Yeah,
47:58
Speaker 2: we'll do that on paper that anybody who's indigenous, we're
48:01
Speaker 2: going to kill them all. Yeah, And that is I mean, dude,
48:04
Speaker 2: that is what echoes in the nineteen fifties with Operation
48:07
Speaker 2: went Back and Dodger Stadium and the Mexican Americans who
48:10
Speaker 2: were sent to fucking Mexico who had never even been
48:12
Speaker 2: there before, and what happened with Operation Gatekeeper with fucking Clinton,
48:15
Speaker 2: and what's happening right now with whatever this is going
48:18
Speaker 2: to be called, whatever the area we're in. It's so
48:20
Speaker 2: frustrating because it's the same thing over and over and
48:23
Speaker 2: over again, and it's like, what he what the fuck?
48:26
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm frustrated. It's just like when is it
48:28
Speaker 2: ever going to fucking end? Yeah, it's just never ends, man,
48:31
Speaker 2: And it's like I don't And again going back to
48:33
Speaker 2: my point of that used to really get me in
48:37
Speaker 2: a point where it was hard to function, but now
48:39
Speaker 2: it's just like, well, care more about protecting people now
48:41
Speaker 2: than anything else. And I think that's what a movement
48:44
Speaker 2: has to be is about, we got to get back
48:46
Speaker 2: to protecting people.
48:48
Speaker 1: But sorry for no right there. So people aren't going
48:53
Speaker 1: to believe this, but Leonard Heltzier's trial was not the fairest.
48:57
Speaker 2: What you don't say was there a kangaroo involved?
49:01
Speaker 1: And it's important to consider by this point the other
49:04
Speaker 1: two had already been acquitted. So now and that's where
49:10
Speaker 1: Leonard Peltier kind of fucked himself by fleeing to Canada
49:14
Speaker 1: because they wanted to try the three of them together.
49:17
Speaker 1: So if he'd been there, he probably would have been
49:21
Speaker 1: acquitted because the government the first time when they tried
49:25
Speaker 1: those two, they were trying to convict them just based
49:28
Speaker 1: on the fact that they were there, and a fucking
49:31
Speaker 1: all white jury in Iowa was like, nah, you gotta
49:36
Speaker 1: do better than that. So then they get to try
49:39
Speaker 1: Leonard Peltier separate and they just straight up say, no,
49:43
Speaker 1: he was the murderer. Here are your witnesses who say
49:46
Speaker 1: he was the murderer. One of the craziest fucking twists
49:50
Speaker 1: to me, Myrtle por Bear was not allowed to be
49:52
Speaker 1: called as a defense witness on the grounds that her
49:55
Speaker 1: testimony could be highly prejudicial to the federal government. That's
50:01
Speaker 1: how it's supposed to work, if someone is supposed to
50:03
Speaker 1: come in and say, no, actually, this is what happened.
50:06
Speaker 1: And this judge was like, nah, you might change the
50:08
Speaker 1: jury's mind if you testify.
50:09
Speaker 2: It's literally saying the quiet part out loud. Yeah, come on, guys.
50:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, there, we'd be that obvious. Yeah, if we let
50:15
Speaker 1: her testify, the defense might win. We can't have that. Obviously,
50:19
Speaker 1: somebody's got to go to prison for this. And it
50:21
Speaker 1: was very much that. Also, if you watched the Oglala documentary,
50:25
Speaker 1: they talked to some of the jurors and at one
50:29
Speaker 1: point they show the autopsy photos and the crime scene
50:32
Speaker 1: photos of these two agents, and there's this juror who
50:35
Speaker 1: was like, we just knew at that point someone had
50:37
Speaker 1: to pay for this. Yeah, there it is. And Leonard
50:40
Speaker 1: Peltier was the only one who could pay for it.
50:42
Speaker 1: He was the only one on trial, so he ended
50:44
Speaker 1: up getting convicted. The defense was deprived of evidence that
50:50
Speaker 1: probably would have cleared him. There was a telegram from
50:53
Speaker 1: an FBI ballistics expert stating that the rifle that was
50:57
Speaker 1: used to kill this FBI agent had a different firing
51:01
Speaker 1: pin than the rifle Leonard Peltier had, so a different gun,
51:05
Speaker 1: different gun. There was even some evidence that suggested Kohler
51:09
Speaker 1: didn't even die from the same kind of slug, Like
51:12
Speaker 1: it wasn't even a two twenty three slug at all.
51:16
Speaker 2: Right.
51:16
Speaker 1: Also, Michael Anderson, who we mentioned earlier, one of the
51:21
Speaker 1: three who was picked up the day before and questioned
51:23
Speaker 1: about the tent encampment. He was the star witness against
51:27
Speaker 1: Leonard Peltier. He testified in exchange for having charges against
51:32
Speaker 1: him dropped in relation to that car explosion that happened
51:36
Speaker 1: where they found the gun.
51:38
Speaker 2: Huh, I didn't know that. I forgot that part.
51:40
Speaker 1: That's interesting. And there are witnesses in that Oglala documentary
51:44
Speaker 1: who are like, he was fucking fold and close with
51:46
Speaker 1: us when all of that happened. He didn't see shit,
51:49
Speaker 1: but the FBI fucking pulled him aside. And was like,
51:53
Speaker 1: you want to go to prison forever if not testify
51:56
Speaker 1: against Leonard Peltier, And it fucking worked. He ended up
52:00
Speaker 1: sentenced to two consecutive life sentences, served nearly fifty years
52:05
Speaker 1: in prison, released by Biden in twenty twenty five. And
52:09
Speaker 1: I am lord that Trump did not try to do
52:12
Speaker 1: anything to undo that.
52:13
Speaker 2: I think it's because he didn't pardon him, he just
52:16
Speaker 2: released him. Oh, I think that's the key difference. I
52:19
Speaker 2: one hundred percent believe what you just said would be
52:21
Speaker 2: true in that I remember so vividly, and my friend
52:25
Speaker 2: and one of my best friends in DC, just brought
52:27
Speaker 2: this up on we had lunch the other day because
52:29
Speaker 2: we were talking about Leonard Peltier finally being released from prison.
52:32
Speaker 2: I was in Richmond, Virginia, during the last day of
52:35
Speaker 2: Clinton's presidency, and I remember I wouldn't let us go
52:38
Speaker 2: out to the bars in Richmond until midnight because I
52:42
Speaker 2: was sure that Clinton was going to finally pardon Peltier,
52:45
Speaker 2: because it was a huge story of will he finally
52:47
Speaker 2: be pardoned by Clinton? And I remember sitting there at
52:49
Speaker 2: twelve oh one and it was like, he's no wanted
52:51
Speaker 2: a president. Bush's officially president in January whatever day was,
52:54
Speaker 2: two thousand and one. Dude, I was so bummed. I
52:57
Speaker 2: was just like, I can't fucking believe this is still
52:59
Speaker 2: going on. And that was in two thousand and one, man, Yeah, this.
53:03
Speaker 1: Is four years ago.
53:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so it was funny because it's something that
53:08
Speaker 2: is my entire life has been. The story has been
53:12
Speaker 2: part of the ether around the people on my dad's
53:15
Speaker 2: side of the family, and it's crazy to think that
53:18
Speaker 2: it's still an active story.
53:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, fucking crazy.
53:22
Speaker 2: Well, this is also part of the autopen thing, like
53:24
Speaker 2: they want to reverse all this shit because of the whatever,
53:26
Speaker 2: the autopen. I have not really taken time to dive
53:29
Speaker 2: deeply in it because it's probably all bullshit anyway. But
53:32
Speaker 2: if they're successful to that this will reverse healthier getting
53:35
Speaker 2: let out of.
53:35
Speaker 1: Prison Jesus, that is nuts.
53:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's still just let the man fucking die
53:41
Speaker 2: in peace.
53:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I mean.
53:43
Speaker 2: And there's also there's so much more to a story,
53:46
Speaker 2: like he's written books from prison, there's interviews with him,
53:49
Speaker 2: like people can go look all this stuff up, but
53:51
Speaker 2: you know, he was a political prisoner.
53:52
Speaker 1: For fifty fucking years. Yeah, very absolutely.
53:54
Speaker 2: The United States has political prisoners guys always have, always will.
53:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, look up o mia Abuji all exactly.
54:01
Speaker 2: And it's if the Feds don't kill you in your
54:03
Speaker 2: bed after they dropped you up, they'll put you in
54:05
Speaker 2: prison forever on trumped up kangaroo court charges.
54:08
Speaker 1: They will find a way.
54:09
Speaker 2: And to me, and this is something my father instilled
54:12
Speaker 2: in me, it's like they will eventually come for everyone.
54:15
Speaker 2: You think you're safe, No you're not. They'll eventually come
54:18
Speaker 2: for you too. Welcome to twenty twenty five.
54:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good way to put it. So I
54:23
Speaker 1: think that's our episode. We did it. Zach. Thank you
54:25
Speaker 1: so much. This was a fantastic episode. I appreciate you
54:28
Speaker 1: doing it.
54:29
Speaker 2: I appreciate the invitation. And I apologize if I got
54:32
Speaker 2: a little too ranty there in the middle.
54:34
Speaker 1: No, no, I mean that's why I wanted you on
54:36
Speaker 1: this episode. I wanted to someone who would have strong
54:39
Speaker 1: feelings about this.
54:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just a sort of one last thing and
54:43
Speaker 2: I'll say good bye. I don't speak for everybody in
54:45
Speaker 2: Indian country, man, Like, this is just my opinions for
54:48
Speaker 2: my background from my people, Like I'm not here to
54:51
Speaker 2: be like, oh we all think like this.
54:53
Speaker 1: Or we all experience this at all.
54:55
Speaker 2: What is the fucking stupid line people used to say
54:57
Speaker 2: the opinions are my own and don't represent Yeah, the
55:00
Speaker 2: podcast empire of Adam Todd Brown.
55:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I appreciate it. Thank you so much. I
55:05
Speaker 1: appreciate you too, dude, I truly do. Do you have
55:07
Speaker 1: anything to plug before we get out of here? No?
55:10
Speaker 2: Not on this.
55:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like the appropriate time to plug some shit. Yeah.
55:16
Speaker 2: I mean you can probably find me through Adam if
55:19
Speaker 2: you want to, or listen to other episodes I've been on.
55:21
Speaker 2: But yeah, this is just my thing. To plug is
55:24
Speaker 2: protect the people in your community, protecture people around you.
55:28
Speaker 2: People need protecting right now, So do what you can
55:30
Speaker 2: within reason to protect them.
55:32
Speaker 1: And I think that's a good place to end. Zach,
55:35
Speaker 1: thank you so much. We tell the people goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, everybody.
55:38
Speaker 1: We love you can content to Catt