Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Religious Fanatic Dad Kidnaps Tot, ON THE RUN, CAPTURED!

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Religious Fanatic Dad Kidnaps Tot, ON THE RUN, CAPTURED! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, major breakthrough in the search
0:14
Speaker 1: for a six year old kidnapped, missing autistic boy. I'm
0:22
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace and this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
0:24
Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation and Series eleven.
0:28
Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to this six year
0:31
Speaker 1: old Jojo Morales, at the center of a contentious custody
0:34
Speaker 1: battle ever since his parents split three years ago. He
0:38
Speaker 1: asked me, Hello, it truly has been hell. I've had
0:41
Speaker 1: trouble eating, slee being and it's just being. You know,
0:44
Speaker 1: any mother can can identify with me. It was back
0:47
Speaker 1: in August when George Morales and his mother, Lilliam Painia
0:51
Speaker 1: Morales disappeared with Jojo. Investigators believed they traveled north into Canada,
0:56
Speaker 1: but for weeks they found no sign of the trio.
0:59
Speaker 1: That is until Sunday, when they were spotted at a
1:02
Speaker 1: Walmart in Moncton, Canada, a spotting. Is it correct? Is
1:08
Speaker 1: it really? Jojo? Are hopes raised only to be dash?
1:13
Speaker 1: You're hearing our friends from w PLG Local ten news.
1:17
Speaker 1: That is a major break in itself. From what we know,
1:22
Speaker 1: the kidnapper is a right wing religious nut who had
1:29
Speaker 1: made statements that this little boy was on his way
1:35
Speaker 1: to heaven. The search intensifying. Now take a listen to this.
1:40
Speaker 1: This is an ambreller. There are certain criteria that need
1:42
Speaker 1: to be met for that to be issued. Among them,
1:45
Speaker 1: law enforcement needs to believe that there's a chance that
1:49
Speaker 1: the child could be in harm's way. So let's show
1:51
Speaker 1: you who he is. This is the boy. His full
1:55
Speaker 1: name is Jodey Gavided Morales. His nickname is Jojo. He
2:00
Speaker 1: is a six year old boy with autism. He's got
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Speaker 1: brown hair, brown eyes, about three feet tall, weighing about
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Speaker 1: fifty pounds. He does have a scar under his right eye.
2:10
Speaker 1: No one has heard from them now, and his mother
2:12
Speaker 1: is desperate to get him back home. My biggest accomplice,
2:18
Speaker 1: may hush just be taken away from me. I just
2:21
Speaker 1: miss him so much. Janet Leles Concepcion is beside herself,
2:26
Speaker 1: unable to sleep, unable to eat, totally devastated that her
2:30
Speaker 1: six year old son, Jojo, has been missing since Saturday.
2:34
Speaker 1: Can you even imagine your child suddenly gone missing again?
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Speaker 1: This is a six year old little autistic boy joining
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Speaker 1: me an all star panel to make sense of what
2:48
Speaker 1: we know right now. But first of all, I want
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Speaker 1: to go out to JoJo's mom Janette. Janette, thank you
2:55
Speaker 1: for being with us. Janette, tell us about Jojo. When
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Speaker 1: you say he is autistic, what do you mean by that?
3:03
Speaker 1: Because there are so many degrees. I mean, for instance,
3:07
Speaker 1: if Jojo was in fact this child spotted, could he
3:12
Speaker 1: go up to a cashier and say, I've been kidnapped,
3:16
Speaker 1: I want my mommy, when when we're talking about autism,
3:19
Speaker 1: that you were saying, the spectrum is very wide, and
3:22
Speaker 1: we have been blessed that he's on the high functioning
3:25
Speaker 1: part of the spectrum. Unfortunately, he would not be able
3:29
Speaker 1: to express exactly the situation he's in. So he if
3:35
Speaker 1: he was spotted, he would not be able to say, hey,
3:38
Speaker 1: I'm kidnapped, somebody take me to my mom. He would just,
3:41
Speaker 1: you know, probably just say hey, why can't what kind
3:44
Speaker 1: of car do you have? He won't he won't really
3:47
Speaker 1: express what he's going through. He wouldn't be aware of
3:50
Speaker 1: his situation at all. Joining me and I'll start palling.
3:53
Speaker 1: Addition to Jojoe's mother, Jeanette, I want to go to
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Speaker 1: doctor Thomas Plant, who is critical to today's broadcast. Professors
4:03
Speaker 1: Psychology Religious Studies at Stanford University School of Medicine and
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Speaker 1: editor of Spirituality in Clinical Practice, author of Human Interaction
4:13
Speaker 1: with the Divine, the Sacred, and the Deceased. Doctor Plant,
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Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. We are
4:19
Speaker 1: dealing with a kidnapper who seemingly is a religious zealot
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Speaker 1: who many of us believe would murder the little boy
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Speaker 1: rather than have him live a life of sin. In
4:37
Speaker 1: his eyes, a six year old child with autism can
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Speaker 1: be a sinner. Is sinful, is bad. So what is that? Yeah,
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Speaker 1: it's such a challenging and difficult situation when you have
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Speaker 1: someone that is using their religious beliefs, practices, and tradition
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Speaker 1: in a way to justify egregious, you know, potentially murderous,
5:04
Speaker 1: the illegal kind of behavior, And sadly that happens sometimes, unfortunately,
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Speaker 1: some people will use their religion, practices, traditions and so
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Speaker 1: forth a great good, and some people choose to use
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Speaker 1: them for great harm, and they justify their impulses, their
5:22
Speaker 1: challenged beliefs, and so forth in a way that somehow
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Speaker 1: makes them feel that they're doing the right thing rather
5:29
Speaker 1: than the wrong thing. And so this is terribly disturbing
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Speaker 1: and it happens way too often and we all have
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Speaker 1: to do all that we can within all of the
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Speaker 1: religious traditions in order to try to stop that kind
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Speaker 1: of behavior. I'm just wondering if it has a particular name,
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Speaker 1: because they're saying, for instance, many mothers that will actually
5:52
Speaker 1: kill their children rather and in their minds they kill
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Speaker 1: her mom's minds, she's saving the child from a love
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Speaker 1: as she believes sin, which would only lead to the
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Speaker 1: child ending up with the devil. That's right. And usually
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Speaker 1: we'll call this a variety of things, one of which
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Speaker 1: is a rationalization. Of course, it's an ego defense mechanism
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Speaker 1: where people will rationalize their problematic behavior. Another is cognitive dissonance,
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Speaker 1: which is when you have sort of a thought and
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Speaker 1: a belief for what, or a thought and a behavior
6:27
Speaker 1: that is not consistent, then you are highly motivated to
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Speaker 1: alter one in order to justify the other. So that
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Speaker 1: would be cognitive dissonance. And in this case, someone is
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Speaker 1: taking let's say a religious tradition, let's say it's Christianity
6:40
Speaker 1: or something like that, and if they are familiar with
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Speaker 1: the Bible, the Gospels and so forth, they may read
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Speaker 1: these messages of love and support and helping the marginalize
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Speaker 1: and the pure and children and this and that and
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Speaker 1: the orphans, and yet somehow try to justify that reading
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Speaker 1: with these impulse of of of kidnapping and harm and
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Speaker 1: so forth. So that would be what we would call
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Speaker 1: cognitive dissonance production. I'm trying to just take in everything
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Speaker 1: you're saying. I'm just a JD. Right, you are the expert,
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Speaker 1: doctor Plant. It seems to me that a Christian zealot
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Speaker 1: of this ilk, the man that stole kidnap baby Jojo,
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Speaker 1: read the Old Testament and forgot about the New Testament
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Speaker 1: and got hung up on a father willing to kill
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Speaker 1: his child to please and angry God. Revenge and war
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Speaker 1: and the smell of burning meat is a good thing
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Speaker 1: in offering to Heaven. Not what the message is in
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Speaker 1: the New Testament at all. It's like the New Testaments,
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Speaker 1: the whole correction of the Old Testament. This. I'm just
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Speaker 1: a lay person. I know Bible are like you are.
8:01
Speaker 1: So I'm just trying to figure out how does rationalization,
8:04
Speaker 1: which we all do right too. I'm going to kidnap
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Speaker 1: this child, and I'm gonna kill this little six year
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Speaker 1: old boy rather than him be a sinner. I mean,
8:15
Speaker 1: how does it lead from rationalization, which we all do
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Speaker 1: that to becoming a violent criminal and taking the baby
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Speaker 1: away from his mother. No, you make a great point
8:26
Speaker 1: in Nancy that you know, rationalization and so forth can
8:29
Speaker 1: get to the extreme and people inevitably will cherry pick
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Speaker 1: Bible verses and so forth and interpreted in the way
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Speaker 1: that they want to. One thing we haven't talked about
8:39
Speaker 1: thus far is the role of psychopathology here and then
8:42
Speaker 1: we don't know in terms of whether or not this
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Speaker 1: particular person has a delusional disorder, or has a personality disorder,
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Speaker 1: or other kinds of disorders that might dove tail with
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Speaker 1: their religious experience or religious beliefs. This is what happens. Okay,
9:01
Speaker 1: doctor Plant, you're just going to have to talk more slowly. Oh,
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, because everybody here we're all scratching oer here
9:06
Speaker 1: is we say that one more time? Listen, this little
9:09
Speaker 1: boy at best has been taken two thousand miles away
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Speaker 1: from his mother and what we believe to be a
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Speaker 1: violent kidnap. Now, rationalization, to me, that's like, oh, you
9:20
Speaker 1: know what, I've already cheated on my diet all day long.
9:23
Speaker 1: I might as well have a whole pack of a
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Speaker 1: Wian roles that that's rationalization and that's wrong. I get it,
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Speaker 1: But this is a whole nother thing, doctor Plant. No,
9:32
Speaker 1: you're right. The things can be in the extreme, and
9:36
Speaker 1: there's no question that this is in the extreme end. Sadly,
9:38
Speaker 1: it happens too common in too often an awful lot
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Speaker 1: of people. And we see this day in and day out,
9:44
Speaker 1: where people will try to justify their egregious behavior, their
9:49
Speaker 1: criminal behavior, they're in a murderous behavior somehow that it's
9:53
Speaker 1: blessed by their tradition or their or their understanding of
9:56
Speaker 1: God or whatever. And which does just you know, pan
10:01
Speaker 1: out if you actually are knowledgeable or thoughtful about these
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Speaker 1: various religious traditions, all I can say is when it
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Speaker 1: comes to religion in this case, this scenario with baby
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Speaker 1: Jojo being violently kidnapped, the angels are crying about this
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Speaker 1: twisting the Holy word Time stories with Nancy Grace. It
10:35
Speaker 1: has there been a spotting of Jojo? Is he truly
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Speaker 1: with his father and grandmother who I believe has stirred
10:45
Speaker 1: the pot from the gego take a listen to this.
10:49
Speaker 1: George Morales is just six years old. He also goes
10:52
Speaker 1: by Jojo and let's believed that he was kidnapped by
10:55
Speaker 1: his father and grandmother. Now that happened just hours after
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Speaker 1: JoJo's mother was granted full custody. And I'll take a
11:02
Speaker 1: look at this flyer. These are the people who are
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Speaker 1: believed to be with Jojo. Now his mother and Nes
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Speaker 1: Concepsio tells us he is autistic and was last seen
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Speaker 1: in homestead. She believes his father may hurt him because
11:14
Speaker 1: of something he told his son. She says he spent
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Speaker 1: time researching living off the grid, and last September, her
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Speaker 1: son began making cryptic comments back people. Wait. Concepsion recorded
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Speaker 1: some of these conversations. Mama over technique. He commented to
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Speaker 1: me that he wanted to take him to leave in
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Speaker 1: a farm with winmals, and he wanted me to go
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Speaker 1: with him. When Concepcion went to pick up her son
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Speaker 1: as part of a custody exchange in late August, they
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Speaker 1: had picked up and left. WHOA, that just hurts my
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Speaker 1: stumming to hear it. Those are our friends at w
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Speaker 1: PLG Local ten. You know Joe Carrilla with us private
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Speaker 1: investigator at LEVERAGEPI dot com. Leverage Investigations found or bringing
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Speaker 1: them home project. You know what, nothing strikes fear in
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Speaker 1: me like off the grid. Look, I know how to
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Speaker 1: find somebody on the run. I'm living at that, finding fugitives,
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Speaker 1: convicting them, getting them behind bars. But when you say
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Speaker 1: off the grid, forget about cell phone tracking, any kind
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Speaker 1: of data, credit cards atm withdrawals, GPS navigation. They're not
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Speaker 1: going to call anybody they know back home because they
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Speaker 1: know they can be traced. That's off the grid. You're
12:42
Speaker 1: not going to see them at the walmart or the
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Speaker 1: gas station. They're growing their own corn and living off
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Speaker 1: the land. That's what off the grid means to me.
12:51
Speaker 1: And it's virtually impossible to find them. I'm an old
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Speaker 1: timer and one I started looking for people. There was
12:58
Speaker 1: no cell phone tracking because there was no cell phone,
13:01
Speaker 1: and the only way you find somebody that's running is
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Speaker 1: to chase them. And they started running in Maine, so
13:07
Speaker 1: we sent people to main and started chasing him, way
13:10
Speaker 1: ahead of everybody else. We found an angel up there
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Speaker 1: named Jennifer Dorman who had a special dog because nobody
13:17
Speaker 1: knew whether they were in Maine or Canada or on
13:20
Speaker 1: the Moon. And we ran that dog twice with authorization,
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Speaker 1: and that dog ran straight into Canada. We knew that
13:29
Speaker 1: answered the question for everybody. Where did they go? Okay, wait, well,
13:32
Speaker 1: I want to start at the beginning because I'm really
13:34
Speaker 1: getting a lot of information. Guys. The self professed old timer,
13:39
Speaker 1: which is not an old timer at all. It's the
13:41
Speaker 1: only one that was able to make a breakthrough in
13:43
Speaker 1: this case. Joe Carrillo is joining us. Let's just start
13:47
Speaker 1: with how we spin. How you find them in Maine?
13:51
Speaker 1: You're the one they did that. How did you get
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Speaker 1: us that far? Well, their car was found in Maine
13:57
Speaker 1: right away and reported to the police as soon as
14:00
Speaker 1: we got into the case. We obviously got that information.
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Speaker 1: So we knew the car was up there, and we
14:06
Speaker 1: knew nobody from Miami Dade had been up there. Nobody,
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Speaker 1: So we sent an investigator to Maine and he in
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Speaker 1: state police, who then we kind of put everybody together
14:18
Speaker 1: to really start the ball rolling, and then we came up.
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Speaker 1: They found the car, but we're the ones that got
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Speaker 1: them there. Guys. We're talking to Joe Carrillo, private investigator
14:28
Speaker 1: who managed to at least find the dad, the religious
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Speaker 1: maniac dad and his mother. They're quite the two peas
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Speaker 1: in the pod and little Jojo got him as far
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Speaker 1: as Maine. You know, I want you to take a
14:43
Speaker 1: listen now to our cut four our friends at w
14:46
Speaker 1: FO R CBS. Now, as I mentioned, JoJo's mother was
14:49
Speaker 1: granted full custody, but she says when she went to
14:52
Speaker 1: pick her son up from the apartment her ex husband
14:55
Speaker 1: lives with his mom, there was nothing there and all
14:58
Speaker 1: of their numbers are now dis acted now. Concepton says
15:01
Speaker 1: her son is extremely smart, knows her phone number by heart,
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Speaker 1: but is unable to have a normal conversation. I just
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Speaker 1: want my vigmie pocket. Really, there's nothing we'ren't doing. My
15:17
Speaker 1: five feet back. This is his father. He's also named
15:20
Speaker 1: hojote Him Moralis. He is forty five years old with
15:23
Speaker 1: brown hair, brown eyes, and his six feet tall. Yesterday,
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Speaker 1: Miami Dade Police announced that together with the State Attorney's Office,
15:30
Speaker 1: they issued a warrant for his arrest for illegally taking Jojo.
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Speaker 1: He does not have overnight custody of him. His grandmother
15:38
Speaker 1: picked him up from his mom's house here in deep
15:41
Speaker 1: southwest Miami Dade on August twenty seventh, and when mom
15:44
Speaker 1: went to pick him up, he was nowhere to be
15:46
Speaker 1: found and hasn't been heard from since. Two thoughts running
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Speaker 1: through my head, how this whole thing started immediately after
15:53
Speaker 1: mom gets a custody victory, and two how often this
16:00
Speaker 1: curs over custody. At first, I want to go to
16:05
Speaker 1: Janet concepts you on this is JoJo's mom. So you
16:09
Speaker 1: got a custody victory and you were awarded custody. Your husband,
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Speaker 1: your ex husband, kidnaps the baby and goes on the run.
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Speaker 1: As I always say, I'm going to come to you
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Speaker 1: in a moment. Kathleen Murphy, a veteran expert domestic lawyer.
16:27
Speaker 1: There's a reason he did not have overnight visitation. There's
16:34
Speaker 1: a reason baby Jojo could not spend the night with daddy.
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Speaker 1: And this is exactly it. Very often this activity is glamorized, Oh,
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Speaker 1: mommy kidnapped for a child. Be asked, there is a
16:49
Speaker 1: reason mommy can't spend the night with the baby to
16:53
Speaker 1: start with, trust me on that, Janette, tell me what
16:59
Speaker 1: happened when you first realized Jojo was gone. It was
17:04
Speaker 1: I first got, you know, the feeling or something is
17:07
Speaker 1: really wrong here, and my worst nightmare came through because
17:12
Speaker 1: the court grunted us over night for the same reason
17:15
Speaker 1: we were able to demonstrate that he was trying to
17:18
Speaker 1: move without telling anybody because we found out he was
17:22
Speaker 1: living in a hotel first without us knowing anything. And
17:26
Speaker 1: every time that we will go on a high, he
17:29
Speaker 1: would come out of his house like he was living
17:32
Speaker 1: there when he wasn't. Okay, wait wait wait wait wait,
17:34
Speaker 1: that's a whole another layer of subterfuge and lying. So
17:40
Speaker 1: let me understand this with me is JoJo's mom, and
17:42
Speaker 1: we have been on an odyssey trying to find Jojo.
17:47
Speaker 1: So he's supposed to be living in his home. You
17:49
Speaker 1: find out that he's actually living in a hotel, but
17:53
Speaker 1: when you go drop off and pickup, he walks out
17:57
Speaker 1: of the old house like he's still living there. Absolutely,
18:00
Speaker 1: And the only reason why I noticed was because my
18:04
Speaker 1: son was having a changing behavior. Didn't want it to
18:07
Speaker 1: go with them. He was acting up. My son was
18:10
Speaker 1: out of his routine, and that really really disturbed them.
18:14
Speaker 1: So I immediately take action. I call one of my
18:17
Speaker 1: realtor friends and I tell him, hey, by any science,
18:19
Speaker 1: can you find out if this guy sold his house?
18:23
Speaker 1: And then he called me back screaming, oh my god,
18:26
Speaker 1: he sold it over three weeks ago and I was,
18:29
Speaker 1: you know, on the floor crying and I'm like, oh,
18:32
Speaker 1: oh my god, this guy is you know, he's going
18:36
Speaker 1: to run away. And then we went through an emergency
18:39
Speaker 1: motion through the Core, and the CORE obviously is trying
18:43
Speaker 1: to make the right decision and they just granted us
18:45
Speaker 1: all overnight, not for custody until later on, but overnight
18:49
Speaker 1: so that that he wouldn't become a flight with So Janet,
18:54
Speaker 1: let me fast forward to the momad. You go to
18:57
Speaker 1: pick up Jojo and nobody's there, and the grandma, who
19:04
Speaker 1: I really think masterminded this whole thing, she's gone to
19:10
Speaker 1: all three of them gone. What happened? I immediately call
19:14
Speaker 1: the police and I call the police and I called
19:17
Speaker 1: my lawyer so that my lawyer can you know, advocate
19:20
Speaker 1: for us, being that this is social bottle in core
19:23
Speaker 1: and that there was a psychiatric evaluation so that they
19:26
Speaker 1: would you realize the seriousness of the situation. They did.
19:31
Speaker 1: The police comes because the father had daytime custody. They
19:36
Speaker 1: weren't able to do much at the moment except trying
19:39
Speaker 1: to confirm that he wasn't there. Where were you Was
19:43
Speaker 1: this at the home? Was this at a hotel? Where
19:46
Speaker 1: did you do knock on the door to get him,
19:48
Speaker 1: and nobody was there. They were leaving after they lost
19:53
Speaker 1: over night, they went and moved to an apartment closer
19:59
Speaker 1: to one eighty seven three and one on seven Avenue. Yet,
20:06
Speaker 1: and so is that where you went to the apartment
20:09
Speaker 1: and you go up and ring the doorbell. No, we
20:12
Speaker 1: wait outside because there is a there is more history
20:16
Speaker 1: to this. I had to stay away order against him,
20:19
Speaker 1: So his mom will walk outside with my kid outside
20:23
Speaker 1: in the gate. Oh my goodness. Kathleen Murphy joining me,
20:27
Speaker 1: high profile family lawyer out of North Carolina at NC
20:30
Speaker 1: Domestic Law dot com. Really, she can't, Mommy can't even
20:35
Speaker 1: go up to the door. Not her fault, because she's
20:38
Speaker 1: got to stay away order on the dad. So if
20:42
Speaker 1: she violates her own order, then she's screwed. So she
20:47
Speaker 1: has to pull up and sit there in the car
20:50
Speaker 1: and wait for the grandma who was a nutcake herself,
20:54
Speaker 1: the grandma to come out. You know, she's the one
20:56
Speaker 1: stirring up all this religious hatred. She has to wait
21:00
Speaker 1: for the grandma to come out before she can get
21:02
Speaker 1: the baby. So the mom goes up there and sits
21:03
Speaker 1: and sits and says, and then why is it so confusing,
21:07
Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy? Why is it so difficult for the court
21:10
Speaker 1: systems to put the smack down on people. I heard
21:14
Speaker 1: Janet say something about a psychological evaluation. I'm wondering if
21:19
Speaker 1: his father had a psychological evaluation. I wonder also, what
21:24
Speaker 1: was the custodial order? Was it she had sole legal
21:28
Speaker 1: and physical custody. I understand it was temporary. Why was
21:33
Speaker 1: it temporary just because he sold a house? Clearly there's
21:36
Speaker 1: more there. And if there's more there, why didn't the
21:41
Speaker 1: court make his visits supervised until they could get to
21:45
Speaker 1: the bottom of it. I like in Josh Powell, Remember yeah,
21:48
Speaker 1: remember Susan Powell's husband that killed her by the way,
21:52
Speaker 1: and he's walking free and nobody does a darn thing
21:55
Speaker 1: about it, and then he gets supervised visits with the boys,
21:58
Speaker 1: and then he has the boys, slams the door and
22:01
Speaker 1: the supervisor's face and kills the boys and burns the
22:06
Speaker 1: house down. That kind of supervised visit, it's all? Is
22:09
Speaker 1: it defts? Is that who's doing the supervised visits? Kathleen?
22:13
Speaker 1: There are agencies that do supervise visitation. Some of them
22:16
Speaker 1: are private, some of them are funded through United Way agencies.
22:21
Speaker 1: Here you can hire a professional supervisor to meet you
22:25
Speaker 1: in public places. You know what, I'm just going to
22:27
Speaker 1: stay married. If I have to go through all this
22:29
Speaker 1: to see the twins, just forget it. This guy, this dad,
22:33
Speaker 1: made that impossible because of his vile behavior, his aggression,
22:39
Speaker 1: his violence. And then he goes spouting religious nonsense as
22:44
Speaker 1: a justification to kill the boy and he takes off.
22:49
Speaker 1: I mean, back to you, doctor Thomas Plant, how often
22:52
Speaker 1: have you seen religion And that's a double air quote
22:56
Speaker 1: right there, turn into something. It's a horrible can Nancy,
23:01
Speaker 1: It's terrible. You know that religion can be used as
23:04
Speaker 1: a terrible weapon, can be used for great good and
23:08
Speaker 1: great evil, and sadly, as you know, as you well know,
23:11
Speaker 1: and I'm sure the other guests on your show note too.
23:14
Speaker 1: When it comes to custody and when it comes to
23:17
Speaker 1: high conflict divorce, sometimes people act remarkably awful and they
23:23
Speaker 1: try to justify their awful behavior by using religious themes,
23:27
Speaker 1: and that can be just kind of crazy making at
23:31
Speaker 1: some level. A lot of people in these circumstances are
23:34
Speaker 1: trying to get back at their divorce spouse, and they
23:38
Speaker 1: use the child as sort of the battlefield in order
23:41
Speaker 1: to achieve that goal. It's horrific, it really is. Yeah,
23:49
Speaker 1: I'm just listening to this scenario and thinking, again, that's
23:52
Speaker 1: exactly why Dad did not have spin the night privilege
23:55
Speaker 1: as well. The entire community, law enforcement community, a law wage, Caillo,
24:00
Speaker 1: private investigator, thank God in Heaven at Leverage PI come
24:04
Speaker 1: together to try to find baby Jojo. Listen, our friends
24:08
Speaker 1: at Local Tien Detectives are considering this a kidnapping case,
24:12
Speaker 1: which is why that Amber alert is in effect. These
24:17
Speaker 1: are the billboards you'll likely see a major highways throughout
24:20
Speaker 1: South Florida. The hope is that with an Amber alert out,
24:24
Speaker 1: we'll be able to track down little Jemans or Jojo
24:27
Speaker 1: as they call him. Now, we do know that perhaps
24:30
Speaker 1: the child may be taking some type of medication. Now
24:32
Speaker 1: it's already gone three to four days without that medication.
24:35
Speaker 1: So now we start being our investigators get a little concerned.
24:39
Speaker 1: Let's show you Dad's car. This is a Grade two
24:42
Speaker 1: thousand and six Ford Expedition with the license plate CSIU
24:47
Speaker 1: fifty three. Local ten did speak with a boy's mother
24:51
Speaker 1: on Monday about how she and JoJo's father have been
24:55
Speaker 1: in a contentious a custody battle. Ever since they split
24:58
Speaker 1: up three years ago. She is begging for JoJo's safe return.
25:03
Speaker 1: I'm afraid, I'm terrified. I'm really broken. I just wish
25:07
Speaker 1: that you will know that we're looking for him. Then
25:12
Speaker 1: Mom Jeanette begins to lose hope as the days pass.
25:20
Speaker 1: Let's go to our cut fifteen. When mom is at
25:26
Speaker 1: the lowest point, I breakthrough emerges in the search. Days later,
25:33
Speaker 1: police found a potential clue close to two thousand miles away,
25:37
Speaker 1: this suv. Main State Police say the three may have
25:41
Speaker 1: been in the suv. It was found in Littleton, Maine,
25:43
Speaker 1: near the Canadian border. Conceptsion is working with private investigator
25:47
Speaker 1: Joe Carrillo, who's worked thousands of missing persons cases. Well,
25:52
Speaker 1: I think it's a very dangerous case. It's not the
25:54
Speaker 1: run of the mill. And then the search for a
25:56
Speaker 1: six year old boy in Florida is now linked to
25:59
Speaker 1: Maine National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, says Jorge
26:03
Speaker 1: Morales disappeared August twenty seventh in Miami. Police say an
26:08
Speaker 1: abandoned vehicle and Littleton, Maine was found with items believed
26:11
Speaker 1: to be related to him. Jojoe's mother says that her
26:14
Speaker 1: son is on the autism spectrum and may have difficulty communicating.
26:19
Speaker 1: Investigators believed that he was abducted by his father, Jorge
26:22
Speaker 1: Morales and grandmother Lilian Morales. They both now faced felony charges.
26:29
Speaker 1: You know, on the run with your mom and your
26:33
Speaker 1: little boy. Jeanette accepts you on with me right now, Jeanette,
26:37
Speaker 1: I just gotta ask, was your husband like this when
26:42
Speaker 1: you married him? What pushed him off the deep end? No? No, no,
26:47
Speaker 1: he was not. He lost his mind during the divorce.
26:51
Speaker 1: I don't know how he turned into this birthing. There's
26:56
Speaker 1: a reason obviously, why the divorce, why we split up.
26:59
Speaker 1: We couldn't eye to eye. He he was very obsessed
27:03
Speaker 1: with things. I felt like a prisoner in my own
27:06
Speaker 1: house and him, um be and my son became an
27:11
Speaker 1: obsession of him. So we couldn't even go anywhere without him,
27:15
Speaker 1: which was including um mom's get together with kids and
27:19
Speaker 1: all of that. He just felt like um he had
27:23
Speaker 1: to be present for all of it because he was
27:26
Speaker 1: paranoid that nobody else could protect his son. And even
27:30
Speaker 1: and we're talking about about insane stuff such as we
27:34
Speaker 1: would change his diaper and he would come and change
27:36
Speaker 1: it again because he was He was obsessed, obsessed in
27:40
Speaker 1: a stick way, and he became such such a horrible
27:45
Speaker 1: and miserable time for me and my son that then,
27:48
Speaker 1: and then I was miserable what my son could see it.
27:50
Speaker 1: And that's when I decided to get divorce. Why would
27:53
Speaker 1: he why would he want to rechange the baby's dipher?
27:56
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I have no idea. He would
28:00
Speaker 1: do stranger things too, sosha um. I would prepare the
28:05
Speaker 1: food and he would reprepare the food because you know,
28:09
Speaker 1: everything was were not good enough. I breast fed him
28:12
Speaker 1: until he was a year. And when I stopped out
28:15
Speaker 1: a year, he stopped talking to me because I was
28:18
Speaker 1: monnetritioning my kid and stopped I should keep breathfeeding onto
28:23
Speaker 1: he was two years old, three years old. Which it
28:26
Speaker 1: was just obsession. It was an obsession with absolutely everything. Okay,
28:30
Speaker 1: I just got to get this in my hair for
28:31
Speaker 1: a moment. So you would cook supper, yes, and then
28:35
Speaker 1: he would come in and recook supper. I can tell
28:39
Speaker 1: you all hbl break loose if that happened after I
28:42
Speaker 1: cook a whole meal. Okay, wait, give me an example
28:45
Speaker 1: like what happened I've got to hear this. Yeah, I would.
28:47
Speaker 1: I would make a plate of food for my son,
28:50
Speaker 1: you know, the little things that he would eat. What
28:53
Speaker 1: would he eat rise? And he wouldn't let me cook
28:57
Speaker 1: the beans because if I put this on our ganic
29:00
Speaker 1: sting on it or something that was none ran by him,
29:04
Speaker 1: he would get really upset. But what happened when he
29:06
Speaker 1: got upset Janette and he would just basically, you know,
29:09
Speaker 1: tow a tantrum like another kid. I felt like I
29:12
Speaker 1: was waiting two kids. Okay, Kathleen Murphy, I guess is upsetting?
29:19
Speaker 1: Is that sounds? I guess you've seen that in a
29:21
Speaker 1: whole lot more. Yeah, it doesn't really matter in custody court,
29:24
Speaker 1: where they're presuming that equal custody is best for children.
29:28
Speaker 1: There literally are no trials with any evidence anymore as
29:32
Speaker 1: the fitness of parents. Literally maybe two percent of the
29:38
Speaker 1: cases are heard before the courts, and people raise issues
29:42
Speaker 1: in the courts just rubber stamp custody. And I'm sure
29:46
Speaker 1: that happened in Jeanette's case at the beginning. Well, the
29:49
Speaker 1: thing I don't get is there are all these red
29:51
Speaker 1: flags waving like like you know how the matador taunts
29:58
Speaker 1: the bull with the red cape. It's just like that.
30:04
Speaker 1: You see this happening, and no one did anything about it,
30:10
Speaker 1: no matter how many times Jeanette tells the judge what's
30:13
Speaker 1: going on. It ends up with dad violently kidnapping baby Jojo,
30:20
Speaker 1: who is artistic and cannot tell anyone what's happening. And
30:25
Speaker 1: then in the last hours we have an incredible break
30:33
Speaker 1: in the case. Take a listen to our friends at
30:35
Speaker 1: CBS four. Miami got a goal from the NBA today.
30:39
Speaker 1: It was like grown four thirty or one pm, and
30:44
Speaker 1: I THEBA isn't really called on my show, was that
30:46
Speaker 1: he's really good or really buy some one? He said,
30:49
Speaker 1: I have good news for you. I just you know why.
30:51
Speaker 1: I was out on the floor and then I started
30:53
Speaker 1: screaming and I got to speak to my sons rules
30:57
Speaker 1: answer and say he needs me, and you know and
31:02
Speaker 1: I love him so much. She was I thought my
31:05
Speaker 1: son was gonna die. It was very hard to sleep,
31:08
Speaker 1: It was very hard to eat. All I could think
31:10
Speaker 1: about with him. But what was he doing if it
31:13
Speaker 1: was okay if you know me so, if he was
31:16
Speaker 1: asking for her for his mom and the security video
31:19
Speaker 1: here is from when he was spotted in Maine with
31:21
Speaker 1: his dad before they made their way to Canada, where
31:24
Speaker 1: Yanette says he was spotted inside of a walmart. Somebody
31:27
Speaker 1: saw something. They got the attention of the bleed and
31:30
Speaker 1: that's how they got him. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
31:51
Speaker 1: straight out to Jeanette concepci on, this is a little Joe,
31:54
Speaker 1: Joe's mom. I understand that tonight, tonight, You're going to
32:01
Speaker 1: be reunited. Oh my god, n I say, this has
32:07
Speaker 1: been search a roller coaster, but I tonight I get
32:12
Speaker 1: to see him. I've been facetiming him. He's been asking
32:16
Speaker 1: me where have I been? And then finally today it's
32:20
Speaker 1: gonna be after ten pm. I's finally gonna get to hugging.
32:23
Speaker 1: Is gonna hurt. You know. I cannot wait to smell him,
32:28
Speaker 1: to see his little face and and he you know,
32:31
Speaker 1: he tells me that he would see he was trying
32:33
Speaker 1: to find me, my poor thing. He doesn't know what's
32:36
Speaker 1: going on at all. Autism can be a blessing in disguise,
32:39
Speaker 1: because he seems that he was on a vacation and
32:42
Speaker 1: he's just got the vacation is over. You know, It's
32:45
Speaker 1: it's amazing, it's amazing. The feeling that I have inside,
32:48
Speaker 1: there's no word that I can use to point at it.
32:51
Speaker 1: It's just so good. It's so good. Yes, Jeanette, I mean,
32:57
Speaker 1: you and I've discussed this off air. Do you know
33:01
Speaker 1: how rare it is that will get to report that
33:06
Speaker 1: a child has been found safe a lot? I know,
33:11
Speaker 1: I know, Nancy, and I know I am possibly one
33:15
Speaker 1: of the luckiest person And I've been blessed by God
33:18
Speaker 1: so much and by so many prayers and so much
33:22
Speaker 1: support from the community that I did not expect. I mean,
33:26
Speaker 1: even social media has been working for the good this
33:28
Speaker 1: time when he has just been amazing, amazing. I know,
33:33
Speaker 1: I know cases don't get like this. I know, and
33:35
Speaker 1: I know that if we were waiting longer before he
33:38
Speaker 1: was seven, we would probably find him in heaven. So
33:41
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just so blessed right now, So blessed. Jeanette.
33:46
Speaker 1: Why did you say if he had gone to a
33:49
Speaker 1: seventh birthday, your husband would have killed him. That's what
33:53
Speaker 1: I'm That's why he my son, will be repeating here
33:55
Speaker 1: in my house, which was my biggest fear. He kept
33:58
Speaker 1: saying that her from done and he had to go
34:01
Speaker 1: to heaven. Before he was seven or eight. Although white,
34:04
Speaker 1: he wouldn't meet Jesus. Okay, do I still have doctor
34:07
Speaker 1: Plant with me? Doctor Plant? Did you hear that that
34:10
Speaker 1: if if he didn't die and go to heaven before
34:14
Speaker 1: age seven or eight, he would never get to see Christ.
34:18
Speaker 1: You know, it's just horrific that we're in a situation
34:21
Speaker 1: where someone can try and believe something is outrageous and
34:26
Speaker 1: unsupported by any of the only of the reasonable religious
34:30
Speaker 1: traditions out there to justify the horrific behavior. And it's
34:36
Speaker 1: it's kind of mind boggling, but unfortunately it can help
34:39
Speaker 1: to propel someone to do a terribly egregious and murderous act.
34:44
Speaker 1: With me. Is Arthor Thomas, a plant professor at Stanford University.
34:49
Speaker 1: I want to go quickly to our twenty. This is
34:52
Speaker 1: Trent Kelly at Local ten. Somebody called and somebody say something,
34:56
Speaker 1: and I'm just so grateful for our person because it
35:00
Speaker 1: just took that. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police taking George
35:04
Speaker 1: and Lilium into custody while confirming Jojo was safe and
35:07
Speaker 1: in good condition. His mother describing that phone call with
35:11
Speaker 1: her son, the first time they've spoken in months, Well,
35:14
Speaker 1: I say it was hey baby, and he goes he's
35:17
Speaker 1: Mommy's mommy straight out to special guests joining us. In
35:21
Speaker 1: addition to Jeanette Conceptcian, Joe Carrillo, the man behind the
35:27
Speaker 1: recovery of baby Jojo. You can find him at leveragepi
35:32
Speaker 1: dot com. Joe, tell me how the whole thing unfolded. Oh, well,
35:36
Speaker 1: the recovery was amazing, Nancy. We were definitely and then
35:40
Speaker 1: when I say we our group as well as law enforcement,
35:44
Speaker 1: we're definitely going in the right direction. We had worked
35:47
Speaker 1: numerous sightings that were coming into us to law enforcement,
35:50
Speaker 1: and we went from being thirty days behind, we were
35:54
Speaker 1: only two and a half hours by car. And the
35:56
Speaker 1: important thing, Nancy, is to know that he stopped, he
36:00
Speaker 1: settled down, He was building a cabin. He was also
36:04
Speaker 1: shopping in places we knew he would go to to
36:06
Speaker 1: get some special food, and we didn't stop. It's just that,
36:10
Speaker 1: you know, we were moving slowly, but we were in
36:12
Speaker 1: the right direction and we would have found him. But
36:14
Speaker 1: it took shows like yours and social media and television
36:18
Speaker 1: and a good citizen to me. And it's what Janet said,
36:22
Speaker 1: you know, social media did a wonderful thing this time. Joe,
36:25
Speaker 1: what do you mean by you knew who would be
36:27
Speaker 1: shopping for special things? Like what? You know? A lot
36:30
Speaker 1: of the things that we do is get into the
36:32
Speaker 1: mind of this person and chase them that way. For example,
36:35
Speaker 1: we found in the car in Maine that he left
36:37
Speaker 1: behind a rare type of bread that he absolutely loved
36:41
Speaker 1: and Janet says he can't live without. We knew that
36:44
Speaker 1: that type of bread is only sold in Canada at walmarts,
36:49
Speaker 1: so we started putting out a net in all the
36:51
Speaker 1: Walmarts because we knew that he'd show up at a Walmart.
36:55
Speaker 1: Now I don't know if that's what caused the tipster,
36:58
Speaker 1: but something did. We don't have pybe do that information.
37:01
Speaker 1: So we were chasing him because of his habits. For example,
37:05
Speaker 1: he had two cats with them, although they haven't found
37:08
Speaker 1: the cats. We put nets out at pet shops and
37:12
Speaker 1: we were getting calls that we were checking up. He
37:14
Speaker 1: loves pizza. There was some spottings at a pizza We
37:17
Speaker 1: put nets out at the pizza parlors. And when I
37:20
Speaker 1: say we, it was the RCMP, Miami, dade Us and
37:24
Speaker 1: the FBI. In this case, everybody worked together and the
37:27
Speaker 1: results is a true miracle because it's like you say, Nancy,
37:31
Speaker 1: we don't get these outcomes in these type of cases.
37:35
Speaker 1: It just doesn't happen. And I told Janet this morning,
37:39
Speaker 1: because it's the first time she could hear it, that
37:42
Speaker 1: when I was talking to the folks that were working this,
37:44
Speaker 1: nobody believed that they were alive. And my group cannot
37:51
Speaker 1: work a case that way when it involves a six
37:54
Speaker 1: year old child. I knew that they were going to
37:57
Speaker 1: be found alive. He didn't go through all this trouble
38:01
Speaker 1: not to be and we were all the right path
38:05
Speaker 1: and it took a lot of mind and a lot
38:07
Speaker 1: of work jointly, and at the end, a good citizen
38:11
Speaker 1: of Canada has to know that he saved a child's life.
38:16
Speaker 1: Nothing short of saving the child's life. Joe Carrillo, I've
38:21
Speaker 1: just got to ask you. It's the father that loves
38:24
Speaker 1: the special bread, ma'am. What kind of bread is it?
38:27
Speaker 1: I've got to know what is it? Janet can answer that.
38:30
Speaker 1: I don't recall right now, Jeanette, what is the bread?
38:33
Speaker 1: What is it? I don't remember the name, but it's
38:36
Speaker 1: a it's a raw bread that it's that that's frozen.
38:41
Speaker 1: And because he has life quarters in it. I think
38:44
Speaker 1: I understand why not everybody carries that. Okay, what is
38:49
Speaker 1: the first thing you're gonna do when you see Jojo tonight,
38:54
Speaker 1: God Willing, I'm gonna hug him. I'm gonna smell I'm
38:58
Speaker 1: gonna smell him completely from head to talk. I just
39:02
Speaker 1: want to hug him, soban And we're already planning on cruises, voccasions,
39:06
Speaker 1: Disney and all the things that he loved. And we're
39:10
Speaker 1: already planning on having his favorite food, and it's gonna
39:13
Speaker 1: be whatever he wants. At least for the first week.
39:16
Speaker 1: He's gonna feel like a superstar. You know. I'm just
39:18
Speaker 1: I'm just in amazement with this wonderful, wonderful needs And
39:23
Speaker 1: please please let us know soon about your happy reunion.
39:28
Speaker 1: All I can say is praise God and thank goodness
39:32
Speaker 1: you acted the way you did as quickly as you did, Jeanette,
39:36
Speaker 1: and thank Heaven for Joe Carrillo. Nancy Gray signing off, Goodbye,
39:43
Speaker 1: f