Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 6 - Why is God Cruel in the Old Testament, but Kind in the New?

Transcript

Ep. 6 - Why is God Cruel in the Old Testament, but Kind in the New? · Martyr's Row

• 0:00
  James the Less is supposed by some to have been
• 0:04
  the brother of our Lord by a former wife of Joseph.
• 0:08
  This is very doubtful and accords to much with
• 0:12
  the Catholic superstition that Mary had never
• 0:15
  had any other children except our Savior. He
• 0:19
  was elected to the oversight of the churches
• 0:22
  of Jerusalem and was the author of the epistle
• 0:25
  ascribed to James in the sacred canon. At the
• 0:29
  age of 94, he was beat and stoned by the Jews,
• 0:33
  and finally had his brains dashed out with the
• 0:36
  Fuller's Club. Ouch. Ouchies. I mean, I don't
• 1:02
  know if a Power Ranger Band -Aid will fix that.
• 1:05
  Power Ranger Band -Aid. That took me a long time
• 1:07
  to process. I mean, it's bad enough to be called
• 1:11
  James the Less. Yeah, but then you have to have
• 1:14
  the worst death so far. Well, and like reading
• 1:18
  that, it's like, well, how do you read that and
• 1:20
  not make it sound like a joke? Yeah. Because
• 1:23
  it's so insane. Because it starts off with he's
• 1:26
  like, he was 94 years old. And then. Well, so
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  that's the other thing. Yeah. So he was probably
• 1:31
  one of the oldest, lived the longest. Yeah. Out
• 1:34
  of people we've read so far. Right. And then
• 1:36
  last week, we talked about or last episode, we
• 1:40
  talked about Matthew. Yeah. So Matthew. Yeah.
• 1:44
  Matthew would have been. Oh, we even talked about
• 1:47
  Nazareth and the idea that's right. Like Matthew
• 1:50
  probably knew Jesus. Yeah, to some extent growing
• 1:53
  up. But if anybody knows Jesus, it's James. Yeah,
• 1:56
  it's his brother. Yeah, but like, I do want to
• 2:00
  talk about like the, so Protestantism. Yes. So
• 2:04
  Fox's Book of Martyrs. Which is wild that he
• 2:07
  comes out the gate just swinging. Swinging at
• 2:09
  Catholics. Yeah, because this would be... It's
• 2:11
  fresh though. It's like 30, 40 years after the
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  Reformation. Okay. Well, I guess the nailing
• 2:17
  of the 95 Theses. By Martin Luther. Yeah, Martin
• 2:20
  Luther. So it's a fresh idea. Yeah. So, like,
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  if you don't know what that is, the Catholic
• 2:26
  Church splits off into Protestantism right after
• 2:30
  this moment, and then roughly 30 to 40 years
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  later, Fox's Book of Martyrs is written by a
• 2:36
  Protestant. Yes. And so, yeah, he kind of takes
• 2:40
  a shot, the Catholics, because, which makes sense
• 2:43
  because you read it and you're like, okay, the
• 2:45
  Catholics believe, which I've never heard this
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  before, the Catholics believe that James can't
• 2:51
  be the brother of Jesus by blood, which makes
• 2:55
  sense. So technically he's still not. They believe
• 3:00
  in, and I'm trying to remember, because they
• 3:02
  have a word for it that I'm not gonna remember.
• 3:05
  Sorry to all my Catholic family. So technically
• 3:07
  all of Jesus's immediate family, siblings, we're
• 3:13
  all half. Right. Relatives. Yeah. Well, it's
• 3:18
  like he was their step -brother Unless you're
• 3:21
  Catholic because they believe Mary never had
• 3:24
  children like she never was known by a man Right.
• 3:27
  So then Jesus has no which is that's what John
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  Fox is getting at here He's like they believe
• 3:32
  that she was she was continually a virgin right,
• 3:36
  which would basically meant mean like a Mac immaculate
• 3:41
  inception And then what like alien abduction
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  removed before birth I guess yeah, I mean and
• 3:54
  then like Joseph was just like yes. She's just
• 3:56
  lives here Yeah, I'm just gonna keep having kids
• 3:59
  I guess True because Jesus does have brothers
• 4:03
  and sisters if I remember correctly, but here's
• 4:06
  the thing that's crazy to me So yeah, they would
• 4:08
  still be like half. Yeah, they are technically.
• 4:10
  Yeah If Joseph still isn't the father of Jesus.
• 4:13
  He's not his biological dad. Right. Yeah. But
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  like, we all believe that. Yeah. So, that's what
• 4:20
  this podcast is for, is going back into the Bible
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  and going, hey, stop just reading over stuff.
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  Yeah. Like, just stop for a minute and think
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  about what that means, and then get to the point
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  where like, modern day now, we stop being like,
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  hey, don't be weird. Yeah. Like a buddy of mine
• 4:38
  said that the other day that like somebody was
• 4:40
  like, I'm just trying not to be a weird Christian
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  and There's a lot of context to that. Yeah, that's
• 4:48
  a weird statement because the Bible is weird.
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  So we are We are what's the word there used to
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  be a song that was crazy to hear Because the
• 4:59
  wording of it was definitely Jesus freak. No
• 5:02
  Peculiar a peculiar people. Yeah So I think King
• 5:07
  James uses that, that we are a peculiar people.
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  So we're odd when it comes to worldly things.
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  So by definition, Christians are weird. Absolutely.
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  What's weird to me is a Christian who just goes,
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  yeah, I believe I'm virgin birth, but nothing
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  weird happens now. Well, wait a minute. Hold
• 5:29
  on. And we'll definitely talk more about that
• 5:33
  too, because I think that it's hard to, the story
• 5:37
  in particular I want to share later, let me get
• 5:39
  to it, is you'd think I'm making it up. Sure.
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  Honestly, so I was listening to it. As at a homeowners
• 5:46
  house while I was painting their cabinets. Okay
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  today and I'm listening to it on the audiobook
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  and she's a Christian as well Okay, but I'm like
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  if she walks by she's gonna think I'm listening
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  to some weird Oh the owner of the house not the
• 5:57
  reader of the audiobook. No, no the owner of
• 5:58
  the house I was like wow, you know a lot about
• 6:01
  the person reading the book Big fans with the
• 6:04
  narrator Big fans with the narrator. Friends.
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  We're friends and fans. I'm a fan love his voice
• 6:12
  Oh him, wait Okay. So you were listening to him
• 6:16
  and she walked by. Yeah, and it's correct. We
• 6:19
  were on the phone. Okay. And I was like, she's
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  gonna think I'm listening to some weird... Oh,
• 6:25
  you weren't on headphones? Mm -mm. Oh, I love
• 6:27
  that. Yeah, and I was like... You're that type
• 6:29
  of guy. I'm that guy. I'm the speakerphone guy.
• 6:33
  You're the like, oh, he actually just wants us
• 6:36
  all to hear this. Well, I try to be respectful.
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  I understand. So it's like, it's quite enough
• 6:40
  that you gotta be in the room with me. But also
• 6:43
  like... Headphones are not good for your ears.
• 6:46
  No, and they just bother me if I have been too
• 6:48
  long Yeah, it makes sense because they're not
• 6:50
  supposed to be there. Yeah, my ear rejects them
• 6:53
  Yeah, we're biologically designed not to have
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  that. Yeah And I feel that every time I have
• 6:58
  my in -ears in yeah, my ears are just trying
• 7:00
  to reject them constantly that makes sense But
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  yeah, I was like I felt it was funny. So like
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  we're both Christians. She's a Christian. Okay
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  But I felt like if she walked by and heard me
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  listen to the story, she'd be like, what on earth
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  are you listening to? She'd be like, heretic.
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  I'm like, it's actually the Bible. It's just
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  the Old Testament. I mean, that's a meme. I promise
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  it's the Bible. It's just the Old Testament.
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  I know you probably haven't read it in a long
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  time. So borderline heresy. Listen, I'm not Jewish,
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  OK, right? I mean, that's, yeah. Yeah, it is
• 7:39
  crazy to start to break that down, because the
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  thing I really wanted to focus on in that description
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  was the fact that they're going so far to say
• 7:48
  that James is not the brother of Jesus that they
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  say that Joseph was married. Yeah, before. Which
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  is, that's insane. But they're saying like it
• 7:58
  was from a previous marriage. Before Mary? Yeah,
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  so they're saying if I if I that's what it just
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  said, isn't it? Yes. Yeah, so it's like so Joseph
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  is like, I don't know about Mary. You know, I
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  think she cheated on me. No, no, no. I mean,
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  no, in the story of like you look read the Gospels.
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  No, it would have had to be before that. Yeah,
• 8:18
  but what I'm saying is here's Joseph in the story.
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  A big deal is like an angel comes and tells him
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  like, no, no, no. Like she's good. Yeah. In the
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  story. But he's like, yeah, I've also got like
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  12 kids. No, I know. From a previous marriage.
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  And he's got a problem with her. Joseph's like,
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  OK, listen, listen. I get it. I understand you're
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  pregnant. And it's not mine. And maybe it's the
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  Lord's. But I've got these 12 kids. And I need
• 8:45
  you to take care of them. And they need a mom.
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  And we're going to tell everybody they're your
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  mom. Well, especially because divorce is such
• 8:50
  a big deal. Right in the Jewish that's what I'm
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  saying like especially at that time It was but
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  a massive deal and for them just brush over that
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  like yeah, but she's definitely still a virgin
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  But like here's the thing this is has nothing
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  to do with Catholics now But it would be like
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  Catholics then to be like that's also kind of
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  a slant on Judaism. Yeah, it's a little bit like
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  Joseph was like breaking the law But you know,
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  it's funny Because we say Mary the Virgin in
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  it the Virgin Mary and it's not like a big deal,
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  but we don't say the Virgin Joseph Mmm. Why would
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  we? Well, and maybe that comes from the Catholic
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  practice Let's not unpack that we need a theme
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  song. Oh, we need a theme song Wait, but are
• 9:49
  we done with James? I'm so confused by James.
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  James the less. Hey, look, James, we honor you
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  this week. We do. But also, 94 years old props,
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  because that's the... And people say a lot, like,
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  in ancient times, which that's not that ancient,
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  but a lot longer ago, people lived less. Not
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  true. Right and I think even James the less lived
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  long he lived a long time But the thing is he
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  lived longer than James the great I'd have to
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  go back and listen to that I Wish we could cut
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  to something. I was trying to pause for the next
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  thing But nothing happened and I realized it
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  would be us Yeah, how do I get out of here? Yeah
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  No, but so 94 but the reason why people say that
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  is because Infant death was a big deal. Yeah,
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  so the average skewed low. Yeah, just because
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  there's so much infant mortality Yeah, so like
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  yeah, it was much harder like keep Children alive.
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  Yeah, so because of that it's like the average
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  age was way lower than it is now that makes sense,
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  but That doesn't mean people lived less. It just
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  means that it was harder to get past. Which is
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  weird because it kind of changes the paradigm.
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  It does. Of how I think about it. Yeah, exactly.
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  You go James, okay. So that means that James
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  would have been, who knows how old he was, but
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  lives 60 years past the ministry of Jesus. Yeah.
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  Or 40 years past the ministry of Jesus. We don't
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  really know. In a way, it'd be like talking to
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  your grandpa. Well, I remember that Jesus guy.
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  Yeah, but but the thing is too is like we talked
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  about this a little bit with Matthew But if Jesus
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  lives to 33 In in flesh, yeah before he resurrects
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  and continues living Actually never stopped always
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  living the always living Pre -pre first pre -pre
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  death But the thing is with that is like he So
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  he had a three -year window, and James would
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  have been a disciple, brother of Jesus. So he's
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  got to be within a 10 -year margin, which is
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  I think what we said with Matthew. I think that's
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  fair. Because you would start your ministry or
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  become a rabbi at age 30. So that was the qualifying
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  age. So how president you have to be 35. So to
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  become a rabbi, you had to be 30. It was the
• 12:29
  point at which you were... starting ministry.
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  So all of the disciples would have been most
• 12:37
  likely younger than Jesus because they're studying
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  under him. Right. So because of that, you're
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  still within a 10 -year margin. So I mean, he
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  lives, you know, 30, 40 years potentially past
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  that. That's amazing. It is crazy. Wow. Because
• 12:53
  you see that fully play out. Like potentially
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  James lives longer than Paul because Paul's martyred.
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  And James is also but how does James last in
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  94 and still get martyred that crazy? It is like
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  he thought he was out Scott free But they did
• 13:06
  say like it's kind of like they're like and then
• 13:08
  they finally chased him down and beat him with
• 13:10
  a club I in this one of those like which is so
• 13:14
  seems like just crazy, but they didn't say fuller
• 13:17
  club It was a little specific. It was very I
• 13:20
  don't know what a fuller club. I don't either
• 13:22
  Well, it's up to you to decide. Yeah. Look up
• 13:24
  Fuller Club and don't look up the images. And
• 13:27
  then text us a picture in the comments. Text
• 13:29
  us a picture in the comments. Post a picture
• 13:32
  in the comments. Don't post a picture in the
• 13:35
  comments of a Fuller Club. I don't know what
• 13:39
  that will get. That could be read very differently.
• 13:41
  Yeah, exactly. YouTube's like, I don't know what's
• 13:44
  going on here, but. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Did
• 13:48
  you have another thought with that? I didn't.
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  No. OK. I guess I was wondering, was he running,
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  do you think? Well, probably not. Or was he just
• 13:56
  had a really good spot? Well, he might have been
• 14:01
  more chill. He might have been not necessarily
• 14:04
  lower rank, but he potentially wasn't the most
• 14:11
  out front. And so because of that, they had to
• 14:14
  kill everybody else before they killed him. But
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  he's number six. True. In Foxy Book of Martyrs.
• 14:21
  Yeah, that's true. But is it chronological? I
• 14:25
  have a feeling it's not. Okay. But I could be
• 14:28
  wrong. We'll let you know. Or let us know. Yeah,
• 14:32
  you let us know. If we don't know before you
• 14:33
  know. Yeah, we're doing enough research. You
• 14:36
  let us know. We have plenty to worry about. You
• 14:38
  gotta start pulling your weight. Okay, you tried
• 14:40
  to get me here before, but it's theme song time.
• 14:43
  It's theme song time. Three, two, one. Alright,
• 14:47
  so here's the guitar But we still have the stand,
• 14:50
  no guitar That's true What does that mean I'm
• 14:53
  gonna do with my hands? Uh oh What do I do with
• 14:56
  my hands? You can just keep them at your side,
• 14:59
  that's why That's true, I just do this the whole
• 15:01
  time No, it's like, even if I'm not playing guitar
• 15:05
  I have to have a mic stand to sing Yeah, okay,
• 15:11
  so theme song So theme song, I mean Paul every
• 15:16
  week by now. If this is your first episode, there's
• 15:20
  five leading up, something like that. Or there's
• 15:23
  some leading up. Yeah, we're trying to just...
• 15:27
  TLDR, we don't have a theme song, but we want
• 15:30
  to get one. And we want you to be a part of that
• 15:32
  journey with us. We do. So we're trying different
• 15:34
  things every week to try and see if we can land
• 15:38
  on something. If we land on something that's
• 15:40
  like, man, that was really good. Yeah. But here's
• 15:42
  the thing. like Every great songwriter Doesn't
• 15:49
  write one song How can you write just one? Unless
• 15:55
  you write the perfect song Which they did one
• 15:58
  time who tenacious D you're right, but they forgot
• 16:02
  it so then they wrote a tribute Oh, yeah, you're
• 16:05
  right. I forgot I'm gonna forget that Pretty
• 16:12
  easily, actually, but shout out Jack Black. Are
• 16:17
  we allowed to do that anymore? Well, I was gonna
• 16:20
  try not to follow up and say, I hope he doesn't
• 16:23
  worship Satan. Well, he wrote him a song. That's
• 16:27
  true. Shout out Jack Black. Jesus loves you.
• 16:33
  Amen. He does. He does. All right. Yeah, so so
• 16:39
  theme song. We're just gonna try and find something
• 16:41
  I had kind of an idea and maybe I can just go
• 16:44
  this route and I don't Okay, do we make like
• 16:48
  fire sounds like a crackling fire? Yeah, please
• 16:51
  do that. I don't know if I can do it. Okay, I
• 16:52
  was like That was not the one I was expecting
• 16:55
  you to say I don't know how to contribute here.
• 16:58
  I was like crackling fire. Oh I love it. I don't
• 17:03
  know how to do your crackling. This is our ASMR.
• 17:04
  I need a lot of verb on that. This is our ASMR
• 17:06
  song We're just gonna We're like not even gonna
• 17:10
  be able to hear Paul. He's not doing ASMR. He's
• 17:13
  just not talking Okay, pretend that I'm actually
• 17:16
  doing the sound but we'll play a sample They'll
• 17:20
  think I'm so the whole time so they can't even
• 17:22
  hear us talking They can't even hear us talking
• 17:25
  All right, we got to be careful not to do this
• 17:32
  it's songwriting time, okay So You gotta help
• 17:37
  me out. One thing that I'm really bad at, along
• 17:40
  with math, is spelling. Yeah, hooked on phonics
• 17:49
  did work for me. Just barely. Enough. Enough
• 17:55
  for me. Not enough of you, but enough for me.
• 17:59
  Enough, Paul. Enough, we're finished. I'm tired
• 18:02
  of telling you that hooked on phonics did not
• 18:04
  work for me. No, but okay, so martyrs is not
• 18:10
  a word you spell all the time correct Okay, good
• 18:14
  cuz I'm making a statement, but I was hoping
• 18:16
  you didn't I don't spell it on my daily. Okay.
• 18:19
  Well now actually I think I might Yeah, good
• 18:22
  point. Hopefully you guys spell it all the time
• 18:25
  now. You should know that word You're just constantly
• 18:27
  like in your journal during school When you're
• 18:30
  35 years old just like you're making it Are we
• 18:35
  going B -I -B -L -E style? Oh, sorry. You're
• 18:38
  making one of those dollar sign things, the lines.
• 18:42
  Those are the best. The cool S? Yeah, cool S.
• 18:46
  That's what they used to call me. Cool S. I believe
• 18:49
  that. Yeah, okay, so martyrs. M -A -R -T -Y -R
• 18:57
  -S. Apostrophe? See, don't you have to visualize
• 19:02
  it? M -A -R -T -Y -R -S. M -A -R -T -Y -R -S.
• 19:07
  Yeah. M -A -R -T -Y -R -S. Yeah. So three and
• 19:13
  then four. Yeah. You're like, why is he doing
• 19:16
  it like that? Well, helps. That's just how my
• 19:19
  brain works. Hooked on Phonics style. So like
• 19:23
  maybe we could do like a folk clap thing. Okay.
• 19:29
  Don't know if this is gonna help me at all Cuz
• 19:32
  it's not like a clapping segment Is this a good
• 19:44
  idea not a good idea? Yeah, yeah good point Yeah,
• 19:56
  so maybe we go to like a pop feel Like what would
• 20:00
  be a like if we could do it, but with spelling
• 20:03
  the letters Spelling the letters spelling the
• 20:07
  word Sing it louder. That was no good. It's okay.
• 20:15
  They're not actually here yet. Thanks guys. So
• 20:17
  I'm still nervous for you Let's see we could
• 20:22
  do like ma T. Y. E. R. Nope. Oh, I'm gonna add
• 20:29
  letters. Yeah, do it. M. A. R. Like... M. A.
• 20:34
  R. Give me an M! T. Y. E. R. Give me an M! T.
• 20:38
  Y. R. T. Y. R. S. M. A. R. T. Y. R. S. I don't
• 20:44
  know. That's like a chant. Yeah, it's kind of
• 20:46
  fun though. M. A. R. T. Y. R. S. M. A. R. T -y
• 20:55
  -r -s nah, I don't like it There's gotta be something
• 21:00
  here though with like the spelling so like we
• 21:03
  need like a fun rhythm or a melody yeah Maybe
• 21:08
  Like in a are T -y -r -t -y -r -s in a are T
• 21:18
  -y -r -s Ma are now it's like a jingle. I like
• 21:24
  this. Yeah, it feels like an old drugstore Okay,
• 21:39
  now I understand okay, see I was going a different
• 21:42
  route But maybe we try it because that feels
• 21:47
  like we need two other people make a quartet
• 21:49
  yeah, that would be fun actually there's a quartet
• 21:52
  for Becoming a martyr was great. It was great
• 22:09
  for me. It was great for the whole family. I'm
• 22:14
  just changing the letter. Side effects of becoming
• 22:17
  a martyr. We include persecution, mockery, beaten,
• 22:23
  stoned, and potentially death. This becomes our
• 22:27
  theme song. It's just a warning. It's a warning
• 22:30
  label. Two, three, four. It's gotta start with
• 22:35
  like, my life was boring and had no purpose or
• 22:39
  any future. And then, then I became a martyr!
• 22:43
  Wait, wait, okay, so let's do this. Do the whole
• 22:45
  thing that just like peels back. Alright, let's
• 22:48
  do this. I'm gonna start it, and then you do
• 22:51
  a warning label. Okay. But do it serious. Okay,
• 22:55
  I'll do it with a straight face. Okay. So here's
• 22:57
  our theme song. Let the warning label start to
• 23:00
  roll. Are you tired of becoming a Martin? Wait,
• 23:02
  hang on. Oh. Are you tired of your life having
• 23:04
  no purpose? No, don't - Don't - Billy May - Hi,
• 23:10
  Billy Mays. Are you tired of your life having
• 23:14
  no purpose? Die for Jesus. Are you sick and tired
• 23:16
  of being sick and tired? I mean, that's not true.
• 23:21
  Like, if you're tired of your life, not - then
• 23:23
  die for Jesus. Yeah, just die for him. Yeah.
• 23:26
  Yeah. Why is it funny though? It shouldn't be.
• 23:29
  It feels ridiculous in context. I think it's
• 23:31
  because we're making it sound like a prescription
• 23:33
  drug. Yeah, good point. In the 1950s, like when
• 23:38
  toothpaste used to taste like nothing. Did it
• 23:41
  taste like nothing? Yeah, they added it. They
• 23:43
  added the mint flavor. It was a good ad. Yeah,
• 23:46
  or the spearmint. They added it in order to sell
• 23:49
  it because people weren't buying it. Oh. They
• 23:52
  were like, this isn't doing anything. As soon
• 23:55
  as they added the spearmint, people were like,
• 23:57
  oh, this feels like I did something to my mouth.
• 23:59
  That's really interesting. Yeah. Wow. Again,
• 24:02
  this is the songwriting segment. Yeah, true,
• 24:04
  true, true. All right, let me go. So you go warning
• 24:06
  label. Or do you want to do it and I'll go warning
• 24:08
  label? No, no, you got it. Do you have a good
• 24:11
  warning label? We'll see what comes out. M -A
• 24:15
  -R -T -Y -R -S. OK, I got you. M -A -R -T -Y
• 24:21
  -R -S. You're trying to fight back laughing so
• 24:40
  hard that's why I stopped because I was like
• 24:42
  all right Let's try and do a serious one, okay
• 24:45
  Do you need the mic stand? Yeah, I'm good. I'm
• 24:49
  good. I'll do this Snapping. You just sing. Thanks.
• 24:53
  Count me in. M A R T Y R S M A R T Y R S Yeah,
• 25:03
  there you go. M A R T Y R S M A R T Y R S We
• 25:15
  honor those who came before, who died for Jesus.
• 25:22
  We want to remember none of them were Catholic.
• 25:28
  None of them were Protestant. They were followers
• 25:33
  of the way, as we are, all together for one purpose.
• 25:40
  M -A -R -T -Y -R -S M -A -R -T -Y -R -S M -A
• 25:50
  -R -T -Y -R -S M -A -R -T -Y -R -S M -A -R -T
• 25:54
  -Y -R -S M -A -R -T -Y -R -S It's just subliminally.
• 26:15
  Get yours today. Get yours today. Alright. You're
• 26:20
  becoming a martyr. It's safe for the whole family.
• 26:21
  Alright, Paul Paul. Have a question for you This
• 26:27
  is a giggly episode oh what I feel like has been
• 26:31
  very serious like martyr serious topic I feel
• 26:34
  like that was like the reprieve that we will
• 26:36
  need yeah Yeah, this feels like a 1950s medicine
• 26:42
  Up front, but it's actually just cocaine in cigarettes,
• 26:50
  so it's even better on the back end All right
• 27:05
  serious, okay Paul here's my Here's my question.
• 27:11
  Yep All right. My question is Why is it that
• 27:18
  the God of the Old Testament or that God in the
• 27:23
  Old Testament seems cruel, but God in the New
• 27:29
  Testament seems much more loving, like it feels,
• 27:36
  why does it feel dualistic? Yeah, that's a big
• 27:41
  question. It is. Yeah. It's a big question. But
• 27:44
  I feel like there's so many things that underline
• 27:47
  it and there's a lot of ways we can approach
• 27:48
  it. Yes. So, can I take the high level of it
• 27:54
  first? Sure. And then we'll kind of get down
• 27:57
  in the weeds of it? If you know Paul, he always
• 28:00
  takes the high road. Sure do. But, let me start
• 28:07
  with this, because this is like... We're a few
• 28:11
  years removed from this, but this is really where
• 28:13
  it gets wild Yeah, this question is I feel like
• 28:15
  whenever you follow it up with something else
• 28:17
  like that's an even crazier question Well, I'm
• 28:22
  gonna use a like pop culture example Church pop
• 28:26
  culture example not popular culture technically
• 28:29
  No one in pop culture actually knows about this,
• 28:32
  but we're a few years removed from this, but
• 28:36
  there was a big Surge really out of what church
• 28:42
  planting and church organizational conversations
• 28:47
  or community would call the seeker friendly movement.
• 28:51
  Oh, yeah. Which was basically the idea was first
• 28:54
  get people in the door, tell them that they belong
• 28:57
  and keep everything very surface level in order
• 29:01
  to get as many people in as possible. And the
• 29:04
  point of that was high numbers of salvation,
• 29:08
  which is great. But salvation not followed up
• 29:10
  with discipleship. Yeah. Ultimately leads to
• 29:13
  no salvation. Right. So, you know, and again,
• 29:18
  like people don't say people the Holy Spirit
• 29:21
  does. Absolutely. But that's not a statement
• 29:25
  that can stand by itself. The follow up is. But
• 29:29
  the Lord uses people over long periods of time
• 29:33
  for a lot of people, or sometimes in an instant,
• 29:36
  or the Holy Spirit can reveal in dreams and different
• 29:39
  things like that. So yeah, not discounting anything.
• 29:42
  Yeah, I'm not trying. I don't love T -shirts
• 29:44
  that don't have an explanation. Yeah, see our
• 29:49
  jingle for. But anyways, so in a church culture
• 29:55
  pop pop reference, there's a big name pastor
• 30:00
  out of Atlanta whose dad was a long term Southern
• 30:04
  Baptist preacher, Charles Stanley. And his son,
• 30:08
  Andy Stanley, North Point Church. He's made some
• 30:12
  ripples. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's done some things
• 30:15
  that I don't think his dad's proud of. And by
• 30:20
  dad, I mean Heavenly Father. Yeah. Oh, I'm just
• 30:22
  kidding. Maybe both. Yeah. No, I'm sure he's
• 30:28
  a super nice guy. I've never met him before.
• 30:31
  But the statement was concerning and kind of
• 30:35
  pushed into Essentially the question I'm asking.
• 30:38
  So I'm gonna have you pull your phone out. Okay,
• 30:41
  I don't have my phone on me Which is kind of
• 30:44
  funny. Well, I feel like we're both not very
• 30:47
  big phone people Yeah, but it's funny that someone's
• 30:49
  asking me to use my phone when I notoriously
• 30:52
  never have it with me Yeah, so it's a good thing
• 30:55
  you have your phone. Thank you. So look at this
• 30:58
  quote. Okay, Andy Stanley on What was it? How
• 31:05
  would we say that? So in Andy state Andy state
• 31:08
  Andy Stanley statement on the Old Testament I
• 31:12
  think that would be like specific, but also general
• 31:15
  enough And I think there should be a quote Like
• 31:20
  we should wish there should be something here.
• 31:22
  Okay. I'll let you read Yeah, cuz these articles
• 31:28
  normally build off of something yeah, so I won't
• 31:31
  read an article, but this is a statement that
• 31:34
  that he made um it says that he says so must
• 31:39
  be true must be andy um so he said and again
• 31:42
  this is not a knock at andy stanley it's also
• 31:45
  not like i'm not it's the idea that like there
• 31:49
  are big leaders in the church that are saying
• 31:53
  things like this and so this is kind of where
• 31:56
  the question comes from today but andy stanley
• 31:58
  said jesus's new covenant his covenant with the
• 32:03
  nations His covenant with you, His covenant with
• 32:06
  us can stand on its own. Okay. So there's no
• 32:11
  comma there. I want to read this without a comma.
• 32:13
  It can stand on its own two nail -scarred resurrection
• 32:18
  feet. That feels like a knock it. Anyways, it
• 32:22
  does not need propping up by the Jewish scriptures.
• 32:27
  The Bible did not create Christianity. the resurrection
• 32:30
  of Jesus created and launched Christianity. Your
• 32:34
  whole house of Old Testament cards can come tumbling
• 32:38
  down. The question is, did Jesus rise from the
• 32:41
  dead? And the eyewitnesses said, he did." So
• 32:48
  we could spend the whole podcast unpacking these
• 32:50
  two paragraphs. It's funny, he's like, he doesn't
• 32:54
  need the Jewish scriptures, but it's like, you
• 32:55
  realize the Gospels are written by a bunch of
• 32:57
  Jewish guys, right? Yeah, and fulfilled by a
• 33:01
  Jewish man. Yeah, it sounds like, so you don't
• 33:03
  need anything? Even the eyewitness accounts?
• 33:07
  Yeah, it's almost like, I mean, we mentioned
• 33:09
  Martin Luther before earlier, but it's almost
• 33:13
  like this is like, this feels like the wrong
• 33:18
  thing, wrong version of what Martin Luther was
• 33:21
  doing. Yeah. Which is basically, he's saying,
• 33:24
  hey, let's just separate ourselves from the Old
• 33:27
  Testament. Forget about Judaism altogether. That's
• 33:30
  so strange. Christianity is its own thing. It
• 33:32
  doesn't need Judaism. Yeah. It started and was
• 33:36
  launched by Jesus and the resurrection. I think
• 33:42
  this is the weird thing about that statement,
• 33:44
  too. As much as I disagree with him, we should
• 33:47
  untether ourselves. Is that how he says it? Yeah.
• 33:52
  From the Old Testament, as much as I disagree
• 33:54
  with that, on the other hand, and actually, this
• 33:57
  quote actually lines up perfectly with what I
• 33:59
  was gonna get into as well. Believe it or not,
• 34:02
  it's actually almost a perfect, completely perfect.
• 34:06
  But it's like, okay, so we should keep ourselves
• 34:09
  tethered to the Old Testament. It's important,
• 34:11
  it's there for a reason. But it's like, yeah,
• 34:14
  the gospel can't stand on its own. It's like,
• 34:17
  we don't need anything but that. But it sure
• 34:21
  does help to have a lot more. And one of us like
• 34:24
  to understand like, why do we have this? Which,
• 34:28
  even asking that question is kind of funny. Actually,
• 34:33
  so, yeah, yeah, yeah. So again, it's like these
• 34:36
  hot button phrases that need a whole description.
• 34:40
  Because even when you say the gospel can stand
• 34:43
  on its own, the gospel is Genesis to Revelation.
• 34:47
  It's not Matthew to Revelation. It's not even
• 34:50
  Matthew to John. No, the good news starts in
• 34:53
  Genesis. Which we talked about in the last episode.
• 34:56
  Did we? We talked about names. Oh, yes. Yeah.
• 35:00
  Yeah. From the beginning, you're speaking to
• 35:03
  the ending. Yeah. And the thing is, it's all
• 35:06
  one thing. The Gospel is not the New Testament.
• 35:08
  It's not the Old Testament versus the Good News.
• 35:11
  The whole thing is Good News. Right. So that's
• 35:16
  one of the things that's like a misconception.
• 35:18
  Yeah. So the gospel itself, now the synoptic
• 35:22
  gospels, if that's what he's referring to, Matthew,
• 35:24
  Mark, Luke, and John, that's different. But you
• 35:27
  can't just keep watering down your phrases and
• 35:31
  allow people to think that two different things
• 35:34
  mean the same thing. And they don't. Synoptic
• 35:37
  gospels are four books of the Bible. They're
• 35:40
  66 canonical. Good news, the gospel is Genesis
• 35:46
  to Revelation. It's the whole thing. Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:49
  In fact, it doesn't make sense without it. Right.
• 35:53
  There's no need for it. Right. Now, do we need
• 35:56
  it at all for the creator of the universe to
• 36:01
  do what he wants to do? We don't. No. We actually
• 36:04
  don't. He doesn't need to tell us anything. Right.
• 36:08
  That's why it's like I've been thinking more
• 36:10
  and more about the like who am I that you're
• 36:12
  mindful of me? Yeah, yeah, and I think it's statements
• 36:15
  like that. Yeah, where you're like Dude, I don't
• 36:19
  even know if all of creation was created for
• 36:22
  this Goldilocks zone of the earth and everything
• 36:25
  that we know about the supernatural realm is
• 36:28
  Just so that it's all focused on humanity on
• 36:32
  earth. That's a whole other episode Well, so
• 36:35
  it's it's funny I'll start here, I wasn't planning
• 36:39
  on getting here yet. We'll start back where you
• 36:42
  wanted to. Okay. With the initial question. And
• 36:45
  then I'll go through here. Yeah, start on the
• 36:47
  high road. Yeah. Okay, fair enough, that's good.
• 36:51
  So this is in, we find ourselves in 1 Kings chapter
• 36:56
  13. Okay, so turn in your Bibles, 1 Kings. Go
• 36:59
  on there, we're going into Bible study. But so
• 37:02
  actually, so right before this, this is after
• 37:05
  Solomon. And this is going into his son, Rehoboam,
• 37:09
  who is now in charge of the kingdoms, or the
• 37:12
  kingdom, sorry. But it's split, right? Not yet,
• 37:15
  not yet. We're getting there. You were correct.
• 37:18
  So Rehoboam, he takes over, and so Solomon, he
• 37:23
  did a lot of great things, a lot of wisdom, but
• 37:24
  then he started to decline in his later years.
• 37:27
  And one of the things he did was increase the
• 37:31
  burden on the people, the workload that they
• 37:33
  were doing. He worked on... Almost to death working
• 37:36
  really hard and imposed a lot of high taxes on
• 37:39
  them And so Rehoboam takes over but he's taking
• 37:43
  over and his work was building the temple Yes,
• 37:47
  and he's like we're maxing everybody out. Yeah,
• 37:49
  so the first Temple that Israel build is built
• 37:53
  by Solomon. Yeah, and he has everybody build
• 37:57
  it and the the Temple that Solomon like oversees
• 38:01
  the building of is comparable to the pyramids.
• 38:06
  Yeah, it's huge. No one ever really says that.
• 38:08
  Yeah. But I've actually stood right above, like,
• 38:13
  and we talked a little bit about this on just,
• 38:17
  like, being in Israel, my time in Israel, but
• 38:20
  I stood and was able to actually see a block
• 38:23
  from Solomon's Temple. Wow. And it's like, I
• 38:26
  mean, it's like the size of your car. I believe
• 38:29
  it, yeah. But, and to be fair, Paul has a small
• 38:33
  car. It's a small car, but it's a car and it's
• 38:38
  a I mean the the temple of Solomon was a Arguably
• 38:43
  a monolithic structure. Yeah, I mean you look
• 38:46
  at inside it talks about the cherubim that were
• 38:49
  there Yeah touching from like nine feet long
• 38:53
  span Next to each other. Yeah, where one wing
• 38:56
  would touch the wall and the other one would
• 38:58
  touch the tip of the other wing That would go
• 38:59
  to the wall. What did they look like? They seem
• 39:03
  to understand. I'm just, I'm so terrified. It's
• 39:07
  baffling, right? It is because I'm terrified
• 39:10
  at like, so if you Google, like, cherubim. Yeah.
• 39:15
  There's a there's a wide range of doing that
• 39:18
  the AI stuff no really really well that is wild
• 39:21
  to you Yeah, but no people on their Christmas
• 39:23
  tree toppers There's like putting a biblically
• 39:27
  accurate angel is the top but those are two different
• 39:30
  things they are Because that's a different type
• 39:32
  of angel. Yeah. Yeah, it's a yeah angelic class
• 39:37
  technically, but correct. Yeah. Yeah, but That's
• 39:41
  actually wild. But that's my question is like,
• 39:45
  I've never seen a cherubim. I don't know anybody
• 39:46
  that's ever seen one. There's a bunch of people
• 39:49
  in the Bible that are like, yeah, a cherubim.
• 39:51
  I mean, we brought this up about Ezekiel before.
• 39:54
  Ezekiel sees one, he's like, yeah, I knew right
• 39:56
  away what it was. Like, how did you know right
• 39:59
  away what it was? What does your day to day look
• 40:03
  like? Well and in the in the simple explanation
• 40:08
  of it, which may not actually be what it is Is
• 40:12
  that in the moment he understood what he was
• 40:15
  looking at? Yeah, which makes sense. It does
• 40:18
  but also pre Ezekiel their cherubim on the mercy
• 40:23
  seat right and so like I don't know if Ezekiel
• 40:26
  ever saw the mercy seat I Don't have a reason
• 40:29
  to believe he did or didn't right anyways. Yeah
• 40:33
  Yeah, so so anyways, so Solomon's temple Solomon's
• 40:37
  temple. Anyway, I just he made the people not
• 40:40
  like him just a chair of him Like I like when
• 40:44
  you look up the pictures it terrifies me. Yeah
• 40:46
  when you look up the pictures There's not one
• 40:50
  like there's not one that's like this is what
• 40:52
  it would have looked like. Yeah Yeah, so I don't
• 40:55
  know what it would have looked like but it doesn't
• 40:57
  look like me with wings No, but that's what we
• 41:01
  think angels look like Yeah, because through
• 41:04
  artist depictions and tradition. That's what
• 41:06
  we've that's what we think but over time It's
• 41:10
  gotten safer to look at. Yeah, that's the easiest
• 41:13
  way and it's like it's not safe. It's actually
• 41:15
  Exactly. Yeah, so I feel like the further back
• 41:18
  you go. Do not fear. It's like don't worry. I
• 41:20
  wasn't scared What are you doing dude? Where'd
• 41:24
  you get those wings? It's kind of funny actually
• 41:26
  Yeah, yeah, so like you Yeah, so you look at
• 41:31
  that it's like a towering being. Yeah, that doesn't
• 41:34
  look like me Yeah, I mean honestly at least from
• 41:38
  Solomon's temple. They're like 12 feet tall Yeah
• 41:41
  Was it 12? I think it's it's like 9 to 12 9 to
• 41:44
  12 feet tall. Yeah with a wingspan to match yeah,
• 41:48
  yeah, that's so that but so that's the thing
• 41:52
  is like Solomon builds this temple and And he
• 41:56
  has more than two inside of it Yes, yeah, and
• 42:00
  he works everybody to be able to do it in his
• 42:02
  lifetime. Yes So building a temple like that
• 42:06
  in his lifetime. It's amazing. It's crazy But
• 42:09
  we that's one of the things we don't think about
• 42:11
  but that's what that's what first Kings brings
• 42:12
  out Is the taxes because he's like he's got to
• 42:15
  get the material for this This is it's like the
• 42:17
  kingdom then works a similar way that we see
• 42:20
  our governments work today Yeah, if they want
• 42:22
  to do something they need taxes to get the material
• 42:25
  to do it, and they need people to work to do
• 42:27
  it. Exactly. And so how does he do it? Well,
• 42:30
  he gets the people to do the labor, and he also
• 42:33
  taxes them to get the material for them to build
• 42:36
  what they're building. Right. And so the people
• 42:39
  are getting a little disgruntled. Sure. And Solomon's
• 42:42
  gone. Rio Boam is now taking over. And he has
• 42:46
  some of his advisors, some of the older people
• 42:48
  there. They tell him, like, hey, listen. people
• 42:51
  are a little upset with everything going on,
• 42:52
  so lower the taxes, lower the workload, and they
• 42:55
  will be devoted to you for life. You don't have
• 42:59
  to worry about a thing. Yeah, bring some peace,
• 43:01
  bring some rest. And he goes, okay, let me think
• 43:03
  about it, I'm gonna go, give me a few days, let
• 43:05
  me go talk to my other guys. So he goes and talks
• 43:08
  to his younger advisors. That's what I was gonna
• 43:10
  say. Yeah, so he talks to his younger advisors,
• 43:12
  and it's so funny, one of the first things they
• 43:14
  say is, Okay, tell them this. Tell them, your
• 43:18
  pinky finger's bigger than my father's thighs.
• 43:21
  That's crazy. And so like, immediately they're
• 43:23
  like, make fun of Solomon. Yeah. Immediately,
• 43:26
  just make fun of him. Yeah. And then tell them,
• 43:30
  uh, uh, my father, what did he say? He... I could
• 43:34
  just pull it up. But basically he's just like,
• 43:36
  he ran you with whips, I'll run you with scorpions.
• 43:39
  And he's like, yeah, I'm gonna make it even harder
• 43:41
  for you now. Well, so nobody likes Rehoboam,
• 43:44
  as you can imagine. He goes with that advice.
• 43:47
  And so Israel ends up splitting, and then that's
• 43:52
  where we get Jeroboam, who becomes the king of
• 43:55
  the northern region, which is Bethel and, I can't
• 43:59
  remember the other city. Ephraim. Is that how
• 44:02
  you say it? That's where he's from. That's that
• 44:05
  I think that's yeah. Yeah, but you also have
• 44:08
  a prophecy in first Kings 11 Mm -hmm about Jeroboam.
• 44:13
  Yes that he would what was I just read it? That
• 44:18
  the prophet to Solomon Had a new garment on this
• 44:23
  is what it is and he takes the garment off and
• 44:26
  rips it into 12 pieces Yes, yes, and then the
• 44:29
  12 pieces represent the 12 tribes that make a
• 44:31
  United Kingdom not Great Britain, but the United
• 44:36
  Kingdom of Israel. And he gives him 10. And he
• 44:41
  says, you're gonna rule these 10. And then because
• 44:44
  of that, Solomon pushes Jeroboam out. And that
• 44:50
  happens before Rehoboam takes over. And then
• 44:52
  Rehoboam takes over and is like, oh, look who
• 44:53
  we are. Well, so that's really significant, too.
• 44:56
  I'm glad you brought that up because Jeroboam
• 44:58
  is in this very... he's been given a great opportunity
• 45:02
  by God himself. He says like, I want you to really
• 45:06
  think about, like really take leadership of this.
• 45:08
  This is on you. And Bethel in particular is a
• 45:11
  very significant place to Israel. That's where
• 45:15
  I, if I remember correctly, that's even where
• 45:17
  Jacob built his altar. So like this was like
• 45:20
  the birthplace of Israel in a lot of ways. Of
• 45:24
  what they know today. It's like this happened
• 45:26
  there. So it's a very significant area. It's
• 45:30
  where he wrestles with the Lord. Yes, yes. The
• 45:33
  angel of the Lord. The angel of the Lord. That's
• 45:36
  another episode. So we're back in 13 now. First
• 45:42
  Kings 13, yeah. And so it starts off with Jeroboam
• 45:47
  is like, all right, so I'm afraid that people
• 45:50
  keep going back to Jerusalem to worship. God,
• 45:54
  they're not gonna be faithful to me. They're
• 45:56
  gonna change their mind and go back. Because
• 45:58
  the kingdoms are split. So what he decides to
• 46:01
  do is, I'm gonna build two golden calves, put
• 46:04
  one in Bethel and one in Ephraim, and they can
• 46:07
  worship there. And what does he tell them? He
• 46:09
  says, these are the gods that brought you out
• 46:12
  of Egypt. So right away it's like the imagery
• 46:17
  is insane, where God's like, hey, I want you
• 46:20
  to rule this and steward it well. I'm giving
• 46:23
  this to you." And he goes, awesome. So remember
• 46:26
  that golden calf in Exodus? Here's two. Here
• 46:29
  they are again. And in greater numbers. Yeah,
• 46:34
  which is what Rehoboam does. Yeah. Essentially.
• 46:38
  Well, it's what Solomon starts as well. Yeah,
• 46:41
  that's a... Because we even see that inside the
• 46:43
  temple. He starts to defile the actual temple
• 46:46
  itself by starting to add these other gods into
• 46:49
  it. And it starts to create this domino effect.
• 46:52
  But Jeroboam, who was given like, hey, do it
• 46:55
  right. God says, I want you to do it right, because
• 46:58
  I believe you can do this. He says, yeah, but.
• 47:03
  And so he does that. So what happens is, God
• 47:06
  then sends in a prophet. And so the prophet goes,
• 47:10
  and this is the part I was listening to, this
• 47:12
  is what I was saying on an audio book. How do
• 47:14
  you say his name? Like Ahijah? Is it the same
• 47:17
  one? I think that's another prophet. That's one
• 47:19
  that comes later. I don't think they named this
• 47:21
  prophet in this chapter. Ooh, I like that. I
• 47:24
  know, right? The unnamed prophet. And he doesn't
• 47:28
  last very long. The unnamed one. So, spoiler
• 47:30
  alert. That's probably why they didn't name him.
• 47:32
  No, it wasn't worth the pink. This one guy comes
• 47:36
  in and then goes away. Yeah. Yeah, well, so he
• 47:38
  comes in and it says a man of God comes in and
• 47:43
  He sees what's happening and he then immediately
• 47:46
  just curses the altar nice is like hey the prophets
• 47:50
  because the other thing that Jeroboam did was
• 47:51
  he stopped choosing priests from Levi mm -hmm
• 47:56
  and starts choosing from everywhere right and
• 47:58
  so he's like these aren't even real prophets
• 47:59
  because the Levi's are in the they're They're
• 48:04
  in the other part, right? Yes With Judah. Yeah,
• 48:08
  so he wants them to separate because he's like
• 48:10
  I want them to be faithful to me here. Yeah And
• 48:13
  this is actually later what the issue is with
• 48:17
  Samaria and Samaritans. This is the beginning
• 48:22
  of that pre -Babylonian exile. And then there's
• 48:26
  intermarrying with Babylonian exile, plus all
• 48:29
  the stuff that Jeroboam had done. He did a lot,
• 48:31
  yeah. So there's altars there. So that's where
• 48:35
  Jesus and the woman at the well, she talks about
• 48:39
  a high place that they worship at. That was established
• 48:42
  by Jeroboam. Yeah. So that's like, yeah. I mean,
• 48:47
  it was a very significant role that he was placed
• 48:49
  in. Yeah. But just briefly going like, see, look,
• 48:55
  like this is like all this stuff ties together.
• 48:58
  Yes, absolutely. Like everything is speaking
• 49:00
  to one. It's not disconnected. No, it's not.
• 49:02
  Yeah. There's no isolated events here. And even
• 49:04
  like the position Jeroboam's in is because of
• 49:07
  the unfaithfulness of the previous kings. Yeah.
• 49:10
  which is crazy to think about. This whole thing
• 49:13
  is set in place, but Jeroboam has the opportunity
• 49:15
  to do it right, and this is where we see him.
• 49:17
  So the man of God says like, yeah, so this, these
• 49:20
  altars are all gonna come down, and the priests
• 49:25
  here and the prophets are gonna be burned at
• 49:27
  these same altars. And it's like, okay, whoa.
• 49:32
  That's harsh judgment. So Jeroboam doesn't like
• 49:34
  what's happening, so he points his hand toward
• 49:37
  this. unnamed prophet and tells his guards to
• 49:41
  seize him, but before he can do that, his hand
• 49:43
  withers. That's crazy. So he can't pull it back
• 49:46
  to himself. And then he freaks out, as anyone
• 49:51
  would. And he goes to the prophet, he's like,
• 49:52
  can you please like ask God to heal my hand?
• 49:55
  Like, please. Yeah. And so he does and God heals
• 49:58
  his hand. I mean. And you think that would be
• 50:02
  enough, right? Yeah, I mean, that's display of
• 50:05
  like love of God. It shows a few things, and
• 50:10
  one of them, yes, love of God, but also, I think
• 50:13
  one of the big things that stands out to me is
• 50:15
  here's a man who's trying to speak against God's
• 50:19
  representative. And God says, no, you can't do
• 50:23
  that. You actually have no power. When the person
• 50:28
  asks essentially for forgiveness, it's granted
• 50:31
  to them. It is. By the mercy of God. And then
• 50:34
  what's sad is, because instead of seeing a repentant
• 50:36
  Jeroboam, what we see is he says, secretly he's
• 50:39
  like, I wanna harness this now, diplomatically.
• 50:42
  He says, oh, come back to my house and I'm gonna
• 50:45
  give you rest, I'm gonna give you food, I'm gonna
• 50:46
  give you water. Well, the prophet was told beforehand
• 50:50
  by God, don't have any water, don't have any
• 50:54
  food, and don't go back the same way you came.
• 50:57
  And so the prophet smartly says, yeah, you could
• 51:03
  offer me half your house, I still wouldn't go
• 51:04
  with you. And in some ways, it's kind of him
• 51:07
  just being like, no, dude, I don't like you.
• 51:11
  Well, he's obeying God, the prophet is, and he
• 51:14
  goes back a different way. Well, this old prophet
• 51:19
  within Bethel hears about this. He goes out to
• 51:23
  find this unnamed prophet. He finds him. and
• 51:26
  he says, hey, come back to my house and I'm gonna
• 51:29
  give you some food, I'm gonna give you some water.
• 51:31
  And the guy says, yeah, sorry, the Lord told
• 51:33
  me no. And then this old prophet says, yeah,
• 51:38
  well, an angel told me that you can, it's okay
• 51:41
  now. What? And it's funny, because within the
• 51:45
  same verse it says, he was lying. That's awesome.
• 51:49
  I don't remember this, that's awesome. Well,
• 51:50
  this young prophet, this unnamed prophet goes
• 51:52
  back with him. And during dinner, the guy says,
• 51:55
  yeah, you disobeyed the Lord and you will not
• 51:58
  be buried in the same grave as your father's.
• 52:00
  No. Well, on his way back, this unnamed prophet,
• 52:05
  he's met by a lion and that's the end of him.
• 52:08
  Oh, that's right. Yeah. And so this is the interesting
• 52:12
  thing is the old prophet. Hears about this again
• 52:16
  and he goes out and he finds this prophet Yeah,
• 52:19
  it's unnamed one and the lion is there next to
• 52:22
  the body But he had not eaten the body and there
• 52:24
  was also a donkey standing next to the lion.
• 52:26
  It was also unharmed And this is a huge sign
• 52:30
  supernaturally of like yeah God's trusting in
• 52:33
  God is the lion representative, but then the
• 52:35
  donkey is the obstinance of someone who refused
• 52:38
  to listen Yeah, and so we see this insane event
• 52:42
  that happens not much longer after Jeroboam's
• 52:45
  arm withers and regrows. And so the prophet,
• 52:49
  this older prophet goes and says, dude, do you
• 52:51
  see what's happening here? Like what God says
• 52:55
  is gonna happen. You need to fix yourself. And
• 52:58
  Jeroboam goes, no. Like I'm gonna continue doing
• 53:01
  what he, he continues to do what he does. And
• 53:03
  then we see the rest play out. But what's interesting
• 53:05
  about this is we see this untethering again.
• 53:09
  Not from the Old Testament because. that's being
• 53:11
  written currently at that time. It's happening,
• 53:14
  it's playing out. But we see in the same way,
• 53:17
  and this is what reminded me when you brought
• 53:18
  up the Andy Stanley part, it's like, no, what
• 53:21
  we're seeing is this establishment where someone
• 53:24
  who's given a lot of authority and a lot of opportunity
• 53:27
  is then abusing that by saying, no, let's turn
• 53:31
  away from what God has told us. Right. And it's
• 53:35
  like, no, why are we turning away? And we see
• 53:37
  even with the prophet that meant well, the unnamed
• 53:40
  one, and then he was deceived, he was led astray,
• 53:44
  but it's like he knew what the truth was. He
• 53:46
  heard what God told him, and he still said, oh,
• 53:49
  well, he said it's okay. And the same way we
• 53:52
  see Rehoboam's advisors. No, he heard what he
• 53:57
  should do. Yeah, and he said no, I like making
• 53:59
  fun of my dad more. Yeah No, I don't like making
• 54:03
  fun of my dad My dad sucks But it's like this
• 54:08
  is this is it's a it's an age -old pattern that
• 54:10
  we see right and so this actually I I love this
• 54:13
  this came from a Old Hebrew scholar. I can't
• 54:17
  remember his name off time ahead right now But
• 54:19
  this is what he said. You shall not be named.
• 54:21
  The other unnamed scholar. But I absolutely love
• 54:24
  the way he said this, is our mindset in a place
• 54:29
  like this would be to ask why. Sure. Why did
• 54:32
  this happen? And I love, he said that's a very
• 54:35
  Greek way of thinking. Yeah. But he says, but
• 54:37
  it's usually and often the wrong question. Because
• 54:41
  how does God usually speak to us? How does he
• 54:43
  usually tell us and show us these things? Well,
• 54:45
  he does it by that. He shows us. Yeah, showing
• 54:48
  it, yeah. And so he establishes a pattern. And
• 54:50
  that's part of what makes the Old Testament so
• 54:52
  significant, is this pattern that God continually
• 54:55
  shows us. I think the closest that we get to
• 54:57
  God actually trying to explain the why behind
• 54:59
  something was in Job. And what he essentially
• 55:02
  said was, you are incapable of comprehending
• 55:05
  the why, so let me show you my character. Let
• 55:08
  me show you who I am. In the Old Testament we
• 55:11
  see repeatedly, they say that the Lord is gracious
• 55:14
  in his mercy, abounding in love, and slow to
• 55:17
  anger. Well, that's exactly what we see. God
• 55:21
  continually shows us this. Now I think what stands
• 55:25
  out to us are a lot of these big moments of big
• 55:29
  judgment. And we look at the New Testament, we
• 55:34
  tend to focus on the other side of Jesus, of
• 55:41
  what he did, which is the fulfillment of these
• 55:43
  other things. But we're seeing timeframes that
• 55:47
  are very different. In the Old Testament, we
• 55:49
  see hundreds of years compressed down to a couple
• 55:51
  chapters. In the New Testament, we see it's as
• 55:55
  it's being written. The epistles are being written
• 55:58
  currently at that time. But the other big thing
• 56:00
  is, if we wanna talk about the wrath and judgment
• 56:03
  of God, Well, what about Ananias and Sapphira?
• 56:07
  You know what I mean? It's like, no, God is God.
• 56:11
  He is who he is. He always is. You can't say
• 56:13
  he's the same as Satan forever, but he's different
• 56:15
  in the Old Testament. Yeah, and I think that
• 56:18
  one of the things you just said is really profound
• 56:22
  and something that we need to lean into more,
• 56:24
  which is the idea that when we ask why, first
• 56:29
  of all, we shouldn't ask why. It is a philosopher's
• 56:31
  question. Yes. But it's an arrogant question
• 56:34
  and it's a question that when we ask why I mean
• 56:39
  I Like if you're leading something, it's good
• 56:42
  to know the why behind the instruction you're
• 56:44
  giving But the leader knows that yeah. Yeah,
• 56:48
  and if God's the leader He doesn't need to tell
• 56:51
  you why But more than that you're not gonna be
• 56:54
  able to understand it Yeah, like that's the thing
• 56:57
  is like like the Lord is far beyond our understanding.
• 57:01
  Mm -hmm So there's an element to it where our
• 57:04
  questions should be if we're gonna ask why we
• 57:07
  should say why me like Yeah, why am I getting
• 57:11
  this honor of interaction with God creator God
• 57:15
  of the universe? Yeah, and in the posture of
• 57:17
  that being not like well, let me Define why God
• 57:23
  did something? Like even just that in a theological
• 57:28
  discussion. I think that Where things start to
• 57:30
  get really sticky? Yeah, and you start to get
• 57:33
  break off of belief and different things like
• 57:35
  that and you start to get misunderstanding of
• 57:38
  one thing to the next and It's not that we shouldn't
• 57:40
  look at like why we should do certain practices
• 57:43
  or different things like that. Yeah, but why
• 57:45
  God does something is In some ways not for us
• 57:49
  to know. Yeah, it's for us to obey Yeah, no,
• 57:54
  it's true. And then we see the pattern in that
• 57:56
  like that's that's I think one of humanity's
• 57:59
  greatest gifts is pattern recognition. Yeah,
• 58:01
  and that's how God Interacts with us sure he
• 58:04
  says let me establish a pattern for you. Yeah
• 58:07
  to see this and continue I mean that's what that's
• 58:09
  what we do and how we talk and even earlier Just
• 58:12
  talking through first Kings and making these
• 58:13
  connections like we're establishing patterns
• 58:15
  Yeah, and how does everything connect and combine
• 58:17
  because in that we can start to understand a
• 58:20
  why behind something? Yeah, and the Bible is
• 58:23
  full of that. Yeah now We've gotten into this
• 58:27
  a little bit before but it's the breakdown of
• 58:29
  translations Where like, if you could just hear
• 58:33
  it the way it was originally told, everything
• 58:38
  would light up, connect. It would just be like,
• 58:41
  bam, this sounds like this word, this feels like
• 58:45
  this, this is literally the root word of this
• 58:49
  thing over here, and you have this juxtaposition
• 58:52
  of this thing happening with this thing, and
• 58:55
  that's all the way through the Bible. And if
• 58:58
  you hear it in the original language, it's closer.
• 59:00
  It's like if you were to write a song in English
• 59:03
  and then hear it in Spanish, it's not gonna translate
• 59:06
  the same way. I'll even say it this way to what
• 59:08
  you're saying, is there are some things between
• 59:13
  ancient Hebrew and English, words translate almost
• 59:18
  perfectly. Like yom is one, which means a 24
• 59:20
  -hour cycle. When we say day, that's the translation.
• 59:23
  It means 24 -hour cycle. Right. Now... the way,
• 59:28
  there's this one rabbi, he says, he's like, but
• 59:30
  then there's a word like shalom. You need like,
• 59:34
  it's not a word, it's a concept. It's the word
• 59:37
  for a concept, which doesn't exist in English,
• 59:40
  doesn't exist in our practice, in our culture.
• 59:42
  It's like, it's a cultural word with so much
• 59:44
  stigma to it, and so much meaning behind it that
• 59:48
  we don't have. So we need actually a few sentences
• 59:51
  to actually even say this one word. Yes. And
• 59:54
  so actually I heard this recently, is when you
• 59:57
  compare the Hebrew Bible to the English Bible,
• 1:00:00
  the Hebrew Bible is like two -thirds less pages,
• 1:00:03
  just because it's the Word. Yeah. But we have
• 1:00:08
  to try to explain the Word, which can take several
• 1:00:10
  sentences sometimes. Yeah, and the New Testament's
• 1:00:13
  originally written in Greek. Yeah. Not only originally
• 1:00:15
  written in Greek, it's written in Common Greek.
• 1:00:18
  Yes. It's the closest to our thought process.
• 1:00:22
  It is. Yeah. So common Greek, the way the New
• 1:00:24
  Testament was written is very close to our post
• 1:00:29
  Greek post Roman worldview. Yeah. Even going
• 1:00:34
  back to like the what is the meme going around
• 1:00:38
  of like how often do you think about Rome? Yeah.
• 1:00:41
  It's like it's that idea. It's like it's right.
• 1:00:43
  It's still right there. But that's because we're
• 1:00:46
  still a product of it. We are. Yeah. So like
• 1:00:49
  The New Testament is kind of written in our pre
• 1:00:52
  -language. The Old Testament is way more time
• 1:00:57
  span that it's covering, way, way more. Cultural
• 1:01:03
  ideas and practices that are so separated from
• 1:01:07
  us. And the language itself is... Different category.
• 1:01:14
  Yeah, it's not even like like if you look at
• 1:01:16
  the breakdown of languages English kind of goes
• 1:01:18
  It's under the category of like a Germanic language
• 1:01:21
  and you kind of go that route in Like how it
• 1:01:25
  was developed and different things like that
• 1:01:26
  Hebrew is way over here. It's like a different
• 1:01:29
  Different approach altogether. Yeah. Yeah, so
• 1:01:32
  it is one of those things. We're like you you
• 1:01:35
  That's it makes sense that we can explain a little
• 1:01:38
  bit more and we have the the philosophy and the
• 1:01:41
  conversations of breaking down This works this
• 1:01:44
  way because of this and as soon as we don't understand
• 1:01:47
  something But for some reason we feel like we
• 1:01:50
  have a good handle on a lot of it Yeah, then
• 1:01:53
  we go well that has to just we have to make that
• 1:01:56
  fit Yeah, because we can't throw it away right,
• 1:01:59
  but if all of this doesn't make sense. That's
• 1:02:02
  fine. We throw all that away But this part makes
• 1:02:06
  sense to me But also like yeah, the New Testament.
• 1:02:10
  I mean you can't there's so much in it that Just
• 1:02:15
  you can't if you throw out the Old Testament
• 1:02:17
  Then you also throw out links to other things
• 1:02:21
  Absolutely that that define and create what's
• 1:02:25
  going on? Yeah, that is a larger worldview I
• 1:02:28
  mean just think about like how does something
• 1:02:30
  like Jude one make any sense if you throw out
• 1:02:32
  the Old Testament? It doesn't make any sense.
• 1:02:36
  No, you might as well throw out Jude 1 as well.
• 1:02:38
  Yeah. And now you're Benjamin Franklin cutting
• 1:02:40
  the Bible apart. It's like, what are you doing?
• 1:02:42
  Well, it's even to the point where we think about
• 1:02:46
  Genesis 15. Okay. And that's where God makes
• 1:02:50
  a covenant with Abraham. Yeah. And it's like,
• 1:02:52
  okay, so we hear the word covenant. Right. It's
• 1:02:55
  like, okay, what is a covenant? Well, it depends
• 1:02:57
  on who you ask and when you ask them. That's
• 1:02:59
  true. Today, it'd be like, oh, it's like a really
• 1:03:01
  strong promise. It's actually a lot more than
• 1:03:04
  that. And especially in that time to an ancient
• 1:03:09
  Hebrew at that time, it's like this was actually
• 1:03:12
  such a big deal. Where to the point, we see a
• 1:03:16
  different practice with Abraham in that, even
• 1:03:18
  in that chapter. But it used to be, it was like
• 1:03:22
  a blood oath. So there was a cutting of the wrist
• 1:03:25
  and putting the blood together to say like, okay,
• 1:03:27
  now we're one. Like this is a lifetime promise.
• 1:03:30
  This is a lifetime covenant. It was so great.
• 1:03:34
  It then continued to spread into what we see
• 1:03:36
  with Abraham, where they would actually slaughter
• 1:03:38
  animals and cut them up. It's even called like
• 1:03:42
  the cutting of a covenant. the cutting of an
• 1:03:45
  oath, where it's like there's actually like death
• 1:03:47
  involved in this. There's blood involved because
• 1:03:50
  blood is life. And so we see that, but what we
• 1:03:55
  see is interesting is with Abraham, Abraham starts
• 1:03:58
  doing this, but then he falls asleep. He gets
• 1:04:00
  really tired. He's like, I'm gonna go to sleep.
• 1:04:02
  And then God says, I'm gonna make a covenant
• 1:04:04
  with you. And it's like, why is that significant?
• 1:04:07
  Well, significant, one, because of what a covenant
• 1:04:10
  means to them. But what does it mean for God
• 1:04:13
  to make a covenant versus me to make a covenant?
• 1:04:16
  It's like, well, one, I'm fallible and I'm probably
• 1:04:19
  gonna mess it up. I'm not gonna try to, hopefully.
• 1:04:22
  But God, and this actually goes into Jewish practice,
• 1:04:26
  where when God makes a covenant, it's almost,
• 1:04:29
  it's just a law at that point. Because it will
• 1:04:31
  never be broken. In the same way of like, if
• 1:04:34
  God makes a covenant with the earth, there will
• 1:04:37
  always be gravity. Well, it's a law. It's just
• 1:04:40
  what it is. And actually, that's even how they
• 1:04:43
  tend to think about it and write about it when
• 1:04:44
  we talk about the laws of nature, is the covenants
• 1:04:46
  of nature. That God establishes laws the way
• 1:04:50
  the earth works and he says, this is how it's
• 1:04:52
  gonna work. And that's just it. And so we miss
• 1:04:57
  so much of that. If we throw out the Old Testament,
• 1:04:59
  we miss the character of God, the mercy of God.
• 1:05:02
  Going back to Jeroboam, it's like, look at the
• 1:05:05
  grace that he showed him. on so many occasions.
• 1:05:08
  Exactly. Says like, please, get this right. Please
• 1:05:11
  figure this out. And then because he made a promise
• 1:05:15
  to the Israelites, that was the covenant that
• 1:05:17
  he made with them that this would be their land.
• 1:05:19
  That the descendants of Abraham would occupy
• 1:05:21
  this land. And that's what we've seen. Because
• 1:05:25
  God's covenant will never break. But there's
• 1:05:28
  an interesting thing because it talks about blood.
• 1:05:31
  So, okay, we're about to make a transition. So
• 1:05:35
  you went the high road. I did. Let's get not
• 1:05:39
  on the low road, but let's get into it because.
• 1:05:42
  And that's yeah, that's kind of what I wanted
• 1:05:43
  to segue with this. Yeah, which is perfect, because
• 1:05:45
  I want to tie in something else. So that is along
• 1:05:49
  the same line. So you look at the blood covenant.
• 1:05:52
  Yeah. So there's a couple of things happening
• 1:05:55
  here. Well, one, if you want to look into what
• 1:05:58
  Jesus says, like, how do you enter into covenant
• 1:06:01
  with Jesus? You have to die to yourself. Yeah.
• 1:06:05
  And the way that you represent that is not through
• 1:06:08
  a blood sacrifice that you give anymore, but
• 1:06:14
  it's followed up, but it's his blood sacrifice
• 1:06:17
  that's shed upon you. So you're still covered
• 1:06:21
  in the blood of Jesus. So it's still blood, but
• 1:06:24
  you actually don't have to shed your blood. So
• 1:06:27
  it's not blood and blood mixing. It's your blood
• 1:06:32
  is being covered up by his blood. Yeah. Which
• 1:06:36
  means that the pureness of your blood doesn't
• 1:06:40
  matter. Yeah. Which is really interesting in
• 1:06:43
  the Old Testament. It is. Yeah, that's true.
• 1:06:46
  But when you look at that and you go, okay, it
• 1:06:48
  doesn't matter the content or how pure my blood
• 1:06:51
  is because when we enter into covenant with Jesus,
• 1:06:53
  his blood covers us, but we die to ourselves.
• 1:06:57
  Yeah. We die to who we've been. Not only that,
• 1:07:01
  when we die to who we've been, we then after
• 1:07:05
  that become baptized, and we go down into the
• 1:07:09
  abyss, the water, into what represents death,
• 1:07:14
  the underworld, and we come back up into new
• 1:07:17
  life, coming up out of the abyss, and representing
• 1:07:22
  Jesus going down into Sheol. coming back out
• 1:07:27
  of it in victory. Yes. And so you have that element
• 1:07:30
  as well. So so it's not like the the practices
• 1:07:33
  of the Old Testament stop. They just change.
• 1:07:36
  Yeah. But they represent actually something more
• 1:07:39
  cosmic. Yeah. Like what we do through salvation
• 1:07:43
  and then baptism is a little bit more cosmic
• 1:07:46
  than what it feels like down to down to earth
• 1:07:49
  of a blood covenant. Yes. And so like that's
• 1:07:53
  one of the things. But So yeah, that's huge what
• 1:07:56
  you just said is huge But the cool thing is is
• 1:08:01
  what you're talking about like go back to a blood
• 1:08:04
  covenant yeah, and the blood covenant When they
• 1:08:09
  were putting their blood together Which Sounds
• 1:08:15
  crazy. If somebody did that right now, you'd
• 1:08:18
  be like, I need to take you to the hospital.
• 1:08:21
  And also to like a psychiatrist or something.
• 1:08:25
  Which is like, yeah. So if somebody tries to
• 1:08:28
  actually do that with you, right now on the other
• 1:08:33
  side of the new covenant, that is potentially
• 1:08:37
  more than likely a closer to a satanic ritual
• 1:08:43
  than it is a biblical practice. Well I think,
• 1:08:46
  are we even told within the New Testament to
• 1:08:48
  not take a blood oath? Yes. We are. Yeah. And
• 1:08:52
  because the ones who are taking blood oath are
• 1:08:58
  doing it to other gods. Yeah. And with other
• 1:09:00
  gods. Yeah. But blood to blood, the blood has
• 1:09:06
  to be pure. Yeah. So you wouldn't make a blood
• 1:09:09
  oath with somebody who is potentially has impure
• 1:09:13
  blood. Right. Because that would taint your blood.
• 1:09:16
  Yeah. The same way that a priest in the Old Testament
• 1:09:20
  had certain rules of cleanliness in order to
• 1:09:23
  work out their priestly duties. Yeah. And if
• 1:09:26
  they became unclean or impure, they had to go
• 1:09:29
  back through the rituals. Yeah. Yeah. And they
• 1:09:31
  become pure in order to enter in. So making a
• 1:09:35
  covenant. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even with that,
• 1:09:37
  too, we look at because this goes into I think
• 1:09:40
  where we might be going is when we talk about
• 1:09:42
  intermarriage. And it's not saying, oh, no mixed
• 1:09:49
  marriages. That's not what the statement is at
• 1:09:52
  all. But it's saying, no, I want a pureness of
• 1:09:56
  bloodline in here. And that's no funny business
• 1:10:01
  inside of there. But it's like, okay, so what
• 1:10:04
  does that mean? There's something that God is
• 1:10:08
  telling his people you need to protect. And that's
• 1:10:11
  the life that you need to be mindful of. And
• 1:10:13
  so like, okay, what is that? Yeah, and they believed,
• 1:10:17
  a Hebrew understanding of blood itself was that
• 1:10:20
  there was life in the blood. So they actually
• 1:10:23
  understood that it's like, that's where the phrase
• 1:10:26
  like life blood comes from. And then even a New
• 1:10:30
  Testament idea that like there's power in the
• 1:10:32
  blood or there's life in the blood of Jesus.
• 1:10:35
  That's true. That's also Old Covenant language.
• 1:10:39
  The Old Covenant language is that the blood source
• 1:10:43
  is the life of the person. So it's like, there
• 1:10:46
  is life in the blood, so you're sharing life
• 1:10:49
  like you are. It's something that you're sacrificing
• 1:10:53
  to somebody else in that instance. But that's
• 1:10:57
  where the, cause the thing is is like, just swapping
• 1:11:01
  blood feels like it doesn't have a risk. Back
• 1:11:06
  then. Yeah, unless you knew that it did have
• 1:11:08
  a risk Yeah, so like now we know and it's one
• 1:11:12
  of those it's important to say this to you where
• 1:11:14
  it's not like they're Barbaric idiots. No, of
• 1:11:18
  course not, but it's like they know the severity
• 1:11:20
  of what they're doing. Yeah, that's why the word
• 1:11:22
  covenant is so sacred That's why they're doing
• 1:11:24
  it's a holy sacred thing. Yes, and it's like
• 1:11:26
  no they're showing This is the severity at which
• 1:11:30
  I'm making this promise this oath with you. Yeah
• 1:11:33
  I'm gonna mix my blood with yours to show how
• 1:11:37
  serious I am about this. Yeah, not only that,
• 1:11:39
  to show that I believe that you are worth making
• 1:11:45
  a covenant with. Yeah, absolutely. Because if
• 1:11:47
  I felt like your bloodline was impure, I would
• 1:11:51
  not do that. And so that's why the Lord says
• 1:11:56
  all the way through, do not intermarry. Do not
• 1:12:00
  make covenants with. Because... what he was saying
• 1:12:04
  was, you're gonna take your pure bloodline and
• 1:12:09
  you're gonna mix it with an impure bloodline.
• 1:12:12
  And so your offspring are gonna be impure. Or
• 1:12:16
  your blood, your life will be tainted. Which
• 1:12:20
  goes back to Solomon, it goes back to a bunch
• 1:12:22
  of people. So why does that matter? And so I'll
• 1:12:30
  just say that I was I was trying to slyly say
• 1:12:32
  it earlier, but I'll say it out right now He's
• 1:12:34
  not talking about race. No, I'm not Not yet close
• 1:12:37
  not you or not the Bible correct. That's not
• 1:12:39
  at all what it means No, no, I mean blood blood
• 1:12:42
  is red. Yeah, that's Literally all we're talking
• 1:12:46
  about. That's it. Yeah, so it's all internal.
• 1:12:49
  Yeah, it's not external and so with that it's
• 1:12:51
  like so when we say when God says don't make
• 1:12:55
  a covenant, don't make a blood oath with those
• 1:12:57
  people. It's like, he's not talking about their
• 1:12:59
  skin color. He's not talking about their culture.
• 1:13:01
  So what is he talking about? Yeah, what is he
• 1:13:04
  talking about? Because he's not talking about
• 1:13:05
  where on the earth are they from. I know. Yeah,
• 1:13:09
  we need to eventually. So to go into all of this.
• 1:13:15
  Going back to the original question is like,
• 1:13:18
  why does it seem like the God in the Old Testament,
• 1:13:22
  that God in the Old, and that's the other thing
• 1:13:24
  I don't like is when people say the God of the
• 1:13:27
  Old Testament, same God. Same God. When God in
• 1:13:30
  the Old Testament seems more cruel. Well, a lot
• 1:13:34
  of times, and this is where I've talked, I literally
• 1:13:37
  just somebody said the other day that they were,
• 1:13:40
  that they had a coworker that they, had known
• 1:13:43
  for a long time who showed up in church. I was
• 1:13:45
  like, man, that's so cool. Yeah. Like it's it.
• 1:13:48
  Yeah. So like and one of the things that he just
• 1:13:51
  like pretty quickly mentioned was like, yeah,
• 1:13:54
  he just always had a hard time with like all
• 1:13:58
  of the war in the Old Testament. And it's weird
• 1:14:02
  how big topic for it. And it should be. Yeah.
• 1:14:05
  And the interesting thing to me is like it's
• 1:14:07
  it's weird how quickly that comes to the front.
• 1:14:10
  Meaning like That is a, that is a stumbling block
• 1:14:15
  to people. So like looking at the Old Testament
• 1:14:18
  and going, why is the conquest era, why is it
• 1:14:23
  that when Joshua takes the children of Israel
• 1:14:27
  into the land of Canaan and is told don't leave
• 1:14:31
  one person, eliminate them all, that is causing
• 1:14:36
  people like misunderstanding what that meant.
• 1:14:40
  is causing people not to have a relationship
• 1:14:44
  with Jesus. It's causing them not to go to church.
• 1:14:48
  Yeah, at the very least. So what I will say,
• 1:14:51
  with a Western mindset, a Western worldview,
• 1:14:54
  it should, because it seems kind of crazy. Let
• 1:14:59
  me just say that. But it's also funny, because
• 1:15:03
  within that same story you wrote with Joshua,
• 1:15:07
  it tells us why. We just don't like the answer.
• 1:15:12
  Or we don't understand the answer, maybe. Simply
• 1:15:14
  put, we don't understand it. Yeah. And part of
• 1:15:17
  it is because by the time you get to Joshua,
• 1:15:21
  and by the time you're reading, by the time you
• 1:15:27
  get to that place in the Old Testament, a lot
• 1:15:31
  of times you stop reading everything. Yeah, because
• 1:15:35
  there's a lot. There's so much. It's dense. So
• 1:15:39
  like that's the thing is like I think a lot of
• 1:15:41
  times you you start to lose your Context in your
• 1:15:44
  footing of what you're actually reading. Yeah,
• 1:15:46
  and some of it is because English language. Yeah,
• 1:15:49
  but And and like a lot of people that that's
• 1:15:53
  a hard obstacle right now I feel like and probably
• 1:15:56
  has been for decades But just the obstacle of
• 1:16:01
  the English language and trying to understand
• 1:16:03
  the Old Testament. Yeah, because it's harder
• 1:16:06
  to remember the in Hebrew, it would have been
• 1:16:10
  so much simpler to remember because this echoes
• 1:16:14
  this echoes this echoes this. And it doesn't
• 1:16:17
  quite do it that way when it's translated to
• 1:16:19
  English. So all that being said, yeah, so maybe
• 1:16:25
  we should land in this space and kind of simply
• 1:16:30
  put go, all right, why does God say Go to this
• 1:16:38
  area and wipe them out completely. Don't leave
• 1:16:41
  any women or children behind. Can I add one more
• 1:16:44
  thing they did say? Yes. Which I think is important,
• 1:16:46
  is he also says, not even the animals. Yeah.
• 1:16:50
  Nothing. Yeah. So okay, that's very specific
• 1:16:53
  for people he doesn't like the skin color of.
• 1:16:56
  Yes, exactly. Which isn't what's happening. Right.
• 1:16:58
  And I think that's the point. You can bring up
• 1:16:59
  the animals. It's like, if it's all about the
• 1:17:03
  people, Then it's like well, and they're just
• 1:17:05
  regular people, but they look a little different.
• 1:17:07
  They act a little different Yeah, why do you
• 1:17:09
  guys take their animals out too, right? You know
• 1:17:11
  what I mean? Yeah Yeah, well, and that's why
• 1:17:14
  it seems cruel because it's like decimate them
• 1:17:17
  Yeah, and that's what he's saying like wipe their
• 1:17:19
  whole existence off the face of the earth Yeah,
• 1:17:22
  which is exactly what he's saying and why it
• 1:17:24
  feels so cruel because it's so yeah, it was so
• 1:17:27
  heavy -handed Yeah, it feels like and it doesn't
• 1:17:30
  seem congruent with what we see of God throughout
• 1:17:34
  other scriptures. And I think, and that's what
• 1:17:37
  I'm saying, I think it's a very fair question
• 1:17:38
  to ask, because it's like, this doesn't seem
• 1:17:41
  to be within the pattern that has been established
• 1:17:45
  of who God is. So, what is happening? Why did
• 1:17:51
  the pattern break, or did the pattern break?
• 1:17:53
  I mean, I think that's essentially what people
• 1:17:55
  are asking when they say, he seems so cruel because
• 1:17:57
  of this, this doesn't seem to be in line. So
• 1:18:00
  then it's like, okay, well, then let's look at
• 1:18:02
  what's happening. Yeah, and God has shown us,
• 1:18:09
  so I don't know if this, I can't say definitively
• 1:18:14
  that this is who God is. God has shown us, let
• 1:18:17
  me say it that way, that He is a holy God. And
• 1:18:24
  a holy God cannot have unholy things in its presence.
• 1:18:29
  And there are really simple ways to be like,
• 1:18:31
  Hey, if I'm trying to die it, there are certain
• 1:18:37
  places I'm not going to go. That's a really simple
• 1:18:42
  way to say this much bigger thing, which is God
• 1:18:48
  is a holy God and anything impure in His presence
• 1:18:54
  will be eliminated. Necessarily. It's actually
• 1:19:00
  a logical statement. That anything impure either
• 1:19:03
  becomes pure or is purified to the point of decimation.
• 1:19:09
  So it is fire that is either extinguishing, burning
• 1:19:14
  it out, or purifying it and leaving what is pure.
• 1:19:19
  That is what the presence of God does. And that
• 1:19:23
  goes into the idea of sacrifice. Yes. using the,
• 1:19:29
  in the Old Testament, pre -Christ's resurrection,
• 1:19:33
  it was let's slaughter a pure innocent animal,
• 1:19:37
  and it's blood that is getting decimated, that's
• 1:19:40
  getting destroyed by fire, it will cover my sin,
• 1:19:44
  so it goes away but I remain. And so we see that
• 1:19:48
  with Christ, his blood covers us, so that when
• 1:19:51
  he is decimated, we remain because of his love
• 1:19:55
  for us, because of his blood, his purity. And
• 1:19:58
  because he didn't stay dead, there doesn't need
• 1:20:01
  to be another sacrifice. Exactly. And that's
• 1:20:03
  actually a really simple way to put it. Because
• 1:20:05
  you kind of go like, well, why does the sacrificial
• 1:20:07
  system have to go, or why does it go away? Well,
• 1:20:11
  those animals didn't come back to life. Yeah,
• 1:20:13
  they were dead. Yeah, but because Jesus came
• 1:20:16
  back to life, it meant that that sacrifice was
• 1:20:20
  once and for all. Because it meant that the sacrifice
• 1:20:23
  itself didn't need to be, it was purified. So
• 1:20:30
  humanity becomes purified through the fact that
• 1:20:34
  Jesus is resurrected. It's the purification process
• 1:20:38
  of going like, hey, here's a lump of coal, let
• 1:20:42
  me put it through the fire and only a pebble
• 1:20:44
  of gold comes out. That's what's happening when
• 1:20:47
  Jesus dies on the cross. that physical frame
• 1:20:52
  is decimated on the cross goes into the grave.
• 1:20:57
  And then what is pure in that that physical incarnation
• 1:21:02
  resurrects and comes back to life and never died.
• 1:21:06
  Yeah. So who? So Jesus, son of God, is still
• 1:21:13
  there. Yeah. Yeah. And endures through and comes
• 1:21:17
  out the other side in resurrection. So in the
• 1:21:21
  burning of the sacrifice, the purity outlasts
• 1:21:27
  it. Which is, it's so cool. And I don't think
• 1:21:32
  I've ever even really thought about it that way,
• 1:21:35
  but that's essentially what's happening. So you
• 1:21:37
  look at the bloodline element and you go, okay,
• 1:21:40
  so what that means is that there's an impurity
• 1:21:43
  in a bloodline. And you just talked about that,
• 1:21:46
  like with Solomon and Rehoboam and Jeroboam,
• 1:21:50
  there are these impurities in the bloodline that
• 1:21:52
  are being created through sacrificial practices
• 1:21:55
  to other gods. And in that process, they're making
• 1:22:00
  their blood impure. And they're literally doing
• 1:22:03
  that by making blood covenants, by entering into
• 1:22:06
  practices. And that's the thing that you don't
• 1:22:09
  quite understand, I think a lot of times is the
• 1:22:11
  severity of what they're doing. Like when they're
• 1:22:13
  worshiping other gods, they don't just have like
• 1:22:16
  a golden calf in their house. They are doing
• 1:22:20
  practices where they are cutting themselves,
• 1:22:24
  where they are... I mean, we see that with Elijah.
• 1:22:27
  Yes. And the prophets. Yes. That's exactly what
• 1:22:29
  they're doing. They cut themselves. Yes. And
• 1:22:33
  what they are doing in these practices, so like
• 1:22:36
  even looking at that, you go like, all right,
• 1:22:38
  well, Solomon would have been part of these practices.
• 1:22:41
  Rehoboam, Jeroboam, like all of these people,
• 1:22:44
  the Canaanites definitely, like the Philistines,
• 1:22:48
  the like, keep going. But everybody, when they
• 1:22:52
  are worshiping other gods. It doesn't mean that
• 1:22:55
  they're going to the wrong church. Right. It
• 1:22:58
  doesn't mean that they're going to a temple with
• 1:23:00
  another guy and they're just like, like I worship
• 1:23:04
  this. Yeah. That's not what's happening. Yeah.
• 1:23:06
  What's what's happening is their worship practices
• 1:23:10
  are graphic. Yeah. And bodily fluids. Yeah. Are
• 1:23:19
  are exposed in those practices and making their
• 1:23:24
  bloodline impure. It has nothing to do with their
• 1:23:27
  physical appearance. Not at all. So, yeah. And
• 1:23:32
  I think that establishing that is really important.
• 1:23:34
  It is, and that is what's happening. So when
• 1:23:38
  God says wipe them out, everything, decimate
• 1:23:41
  them, it's sacrificing what is impure. It means
• 1:23:47
  that, hey look, Jerusalem, Israel, the land of
• 1:23:52
  Israel, where the land of Canaan, that's now
• 1:23:57
  your land. In order for me to dwell there, anything
• 1:24:00
  impure has to go away. Because as soon as I come
• 1:24:04
  in, it's going away. And so you go before and
• 1:24:12
  clean it out for me. Make way. Let's prepare
• 1:24:17
  the way of the Lord. It is, that's what's happening.
• 1:24:19
  So the Israelites are going into the land of
• 1:24:22
  Canaan and they're preparing the way for the
• 1:24:24
  Lord. They're preparing his land for him to dwell
• 1:24:27
  in. But anything impure has to be removed. Not
• 1:24:31
  skin color, not type of person, not region of
• 1:24:34
  person. Impure blood has to be removed. And so
• 1:24:39
  that's what's happening. And you kind of go like,
• 1:24:42
  all right, well, what makes their blood impure?
• 1:24:46
  Is that another episode? That's another episode,
• 1:24:50
  and that's the question. Of the next episode?
• 1:24:53
  Yeah. Or of... I think you're right. I think
• 1:24:56
  that's it. Yeah. What makes Canaanite blood impure?
• 1:25:04
  Yeah. Three, two, one.