Latest / New Teacher Talk / Ep 133: Recruiting Talent: A District Leader's Perspective on Educational Staffing

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Ep 133: Recruiting Talent: A District Leader's Perspective on Educational Staffing · New Teacher Talk

0:02
Welcome to New Teacher Talk.
0:04
This channel is designed to support those new to teaching.
0:08
We'll talk about the most common challenges educators face
0:11
and offer some suggestions for answers,
0:15
whether you're working in an urban, suburban,
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or rural school.
0:19
Thanks for joining us.
0:22
My name is Ryan Lamping,
0:23
Vice President at Amergis Educational Staffing.
0:26
Today, I'm going to talk with the district leader,
0:28
getting some insight and perspectives about using an
0:31
educational staffing company such as Amergis.
0:34
I'd like to introduce now Cathy Leaver,
0:37
Director of Special Education at Bellevue School District. C
0:40
athy is somebody who's used Amergis Educational Staffing in
0:43
a number of capacities and positions throughout the years. C
0:46
athy, how are you doing today?
0:49
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Ryan.
0:50
Can you just tell me a little bit and maybe the audience
0:53
here about what you do and maybe how long you've been at
0:56
Bellevue?
0:57
So I have been in Bellevue for about 11 years now.
1:00
I spent the first part of my career teaching and then about
1:04
10 years in, I was like, I think I want to be a principal.
1:07
So,
1:07
I was an assistant principal and a principal for about six
1:09
years.
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I spent about 18 months during COVID as the Director of E
1:14
arly Learning and Family Engagement.
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And then the last four years in my current position as the S
1:19
pecial Education Director in Bellevue.
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Safe to say you've worn a lot of hats there at Bellevue,
1:25
huh?
1:26
Yeah, just a handful.
1:29
Well,
1:29
and I think that's part of the reason why I wanted to talk
1:31
with you is because I think not only from a district "
1:34
leadership" perspective,
1:35
but overall with a district "leader" perspective in
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multiple capacities,
1:40
you have an interesting kind of lens that you look through,
1:43
not only just staffing and vacancies,
1:45
but partnerships with an organization like ours.
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And so can you maybe just give a little bit of an overview
1:51
on how long you've been partnered with a staffing company
1:55
like Amergis as well?
1:57
When I came into my special education role four years ago,
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we had,
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I think we had an existing partnership here and there with
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Amergis and honestly, a couple of other staffing companies.
2:08
We were trying to fill vacancies after COVID,
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and we just couldn't get enough paras.
2:12
We couldn't get school psychologists.
2:13
We couldn't get STs.
2:15
We couldn't get OTs.
2:16
There were a handful of teacher positions that we couldn't
2:18
fill special education and general education teachers that
2:23
were sitting empty.
2:24
And so I would say we solidified our partnership probably
2:29
somewhere around the 21, 22,
2:33
23 school year with Amergis and have been with them ever
2:36
since.
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And they have become our best partner, I would say.
2:40
Yeah, it's interesting.
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I see that often too,
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of just that continuance of a partnership.
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There might be the dotted lines or signs oftentimes,
2:46
but there's something that happens that strengthens that
2:50
relationship,
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whether it's the adequate staffing with great personnel,
2:53
or in your case, maybe needs come up at a certain time,
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right?
2:58
Needs come up and that relationship was there and that
3:00
follow through from Amergis kind of it just came through
3:03
almost every time.
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So that reliance and that I guess a true partnership.
3:08
Love that.
3:09
So help maybe myself and the audience understand from your
3:12
seat in evaluating an educational staffing company,
3:16
why would school districts utilize one or why do they use
3:19
an Amergis for example to assist in identifying teachers
3:23
and other positions to fill their placements?
3:26
At what point does that become a conversation?
3:29
For special education, by law,
3:30
we have to have services and minutes met.
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So when we don't have bodies, teachers, you know, paras,
3:36
you name it, serving students,
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that has some major conditions for us down the road.
3:42
So I think, you know,
3:43
using a staffing company such as Amergis really helps us
3:48
because school districts don't always,
3:50
they're not in the business of recruiting. They're in the
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business of teaching and serving students.
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And so using a staffing agency like Amergis,
3:58
we get to have an expert doing the seeking out,
4:02
the recruiting, the helping us retain them.
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I would say that that's where the true partnership comes in
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is retaining that really great staff.
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I would also say, you know, with the shortages, you know,
4:12
in education and teaching right now,
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it's crucial to have somebody that focuses on one thing and
4:17
does it that well.
4:18
And Amergis has done that for my school district
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specifically,
4:21
and I'm sure many others. In the school district,
4:24
we post things online, and we go to job fairs.
4:27
Really, that's the extent of our recruiting business.
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So, you know,
4:30
relying on Amergis to go out and do that and seek out great
4:33
candidates for us, especially as the relationship evolves,
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you get to know us and our needs in our specific districts.
4:39
That's been the game changer working with a staffing
4:42
agency.
4:43
Yeah,
4:44
so it definitely sounds like a lot of advantages there that
4:47
can be utilized with a strong partnership.
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I'm curious as well,
4:50
and maybe not so much from your Amergis partnership end,
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but just looking through a staffing company,
4:56
what do you see as maybe a potential disadvantage of
4:58
utilizing somebody like that from a school district?
5:02
Well,
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there's a couple that I can think of off the top of my
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head.
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I think, you know,
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some of the disadvantages of using a staffing agency is
5:10
many times it's leave that need to be filled in the middle
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of the year.
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Maternity leaves, medical leaves,
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people move in the middle of the year, what have you.
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We can't find anybody, so we call a staffing agency and,
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you know, the school year's kind of started.
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So this person who we contract with or the people that we
5:27
contract missed that beginning of the year orientation,
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culture building piece of the school year.
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So bringing contractors or any new staff really, I mean,
5:36
hitting the ground running in mid-year can be difficult.
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So, you know,
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to kind of turn that disadvantage into advantage, you know,
5:42
the people coming in,
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I would hope that they would ask questions and, you know,
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dig in and really get to know and build relationships
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within the staff after the school year gets started and be
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proactive about that.
5:52
The second piece that might be a disadvantage,
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and also I could probably turn it into an advantage,
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is the evaluation cycle for teachers.
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You know, having a contracted staff,
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that evaluation and feedback loop might look different.
6:08
And I think that piece to talk about more of turning it
6:11
around,
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I think if the contracted staff knows this going into it,
6:14
they can be proactive for themselves and go to the building
6:17
administrator and say, hey, you know,
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I'd love to be on some kind of rotation like your other
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teachers just to get some feedback, whether formal,
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informal.
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That's always, I mean,
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teachers thrive on feedback and implementing new strategies
6:29
and sometimes having that feedback and evaluation
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communication loop.
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That could be a disadvantage if you aren't proactive
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yourself as someone that's a contracted staff.
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Yeah,
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it reminds me of a theme that I try to keep in mind and
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talking with partner districts as we go through the process
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of just the front end piece might need a little bit more
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time and attention of making sure that we're checking those
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boxes before just staff member gets in the door.
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We're so busy with making sure staff member gets in.
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I think sometimes for us and for the district,
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it definitely benefits to take a step back and make sure
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all the expectations are met,
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all of the details are mentioned and found out. That way
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going into day one, it truly is a introduction training,
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getting you acclimated versus hey, I wasn't ready for this.
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I want to kind of look through the lens of maybe just
7:16
teachers specifically,
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and from your perspective in the various roles that you've
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been in,
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what do you think school districts are looking for in just
7:25
an early career educational teacher,
7:27
whether that be SPED or GEN ED because with this teacher
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shortage that's come upon us,
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keeping that in mind for an early career teacher might be
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the difference between a very good placement or just a
7:37
placement because of need.
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For sure, you know,
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I think of it a few things. Teachers come in new to the
7:46
career, they've done their student teaching and, you know,
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they've done all the coursework. A couple of things as far
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as characteristics, but also just, you know,
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some advice and guidance maybe is just to be really
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intentional about everything you do in the
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first 3-5 years of your teaching career. That will keep you holding on longer than most.
8:07
But, as a district leader, when I'm hiring teachers,
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I'm looking for, yes, you can follow a curriculum. Yes,
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you can give an assessment. Yes,
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you can support students with SEL, that EQ piece,
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that emotional intelligence, I think I'm looking for grit,
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I'm looking for flexibility,
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I'm looking for a good communicator.
8:28
I'm also looking for people who are able to and willing to
8:34
work with all students, all families, and colleagues.
8:38
I think that those are super,
8:40
super important because as a public school educator,
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you never know who's going to walk in your door and move in
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and be in your classroom,
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and we have to be able to have that grit,
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flexibility and communication to work with any student and
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their families.
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Those are kind of those emotional EQ pieces that I'm
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looking for,
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and those typically come out and interview questions,
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but as you're thinking about interviewing, I think,
9:00
you know, those are grit, flexibility,
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communication and collaboration.
9:04
Those are the four that I'm really taking a feel for when
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I'm hiring.
9:10
Yeah, I heard you say that,
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and I instantly thought of my own situation with my son,
9:15
Maddox.
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He just went into public school, first grade this year.
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And right away with his special education teacher,
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when we first met her,
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I don't know that I noticed anything different,
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I would say,
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except for just the genuine piece of her and the
9:28
enthusiasm, like it resonated.
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And I think that walking out with my wife,
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who is also an administrator in a school district,
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it was very clear that we were in good hands just from
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that, right?
9:39
The learning piece is going to come,
9:42
but just the enthusiasm and the genuine nature of wanting
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to learn more about Maddox and every student in the room,
9:48
I can't say it's a coincidence that she's been a phenomenal
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teacher.
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For sure, and you know, when a teacher,
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when you drop your kids off in a classroom,
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you want that spark, that love for your child,
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because that lets you walk away and not need them to come
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with you.
10:03
Yep.
10:05
I love that.
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I think you hit it spot on there with those pieces too.
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And a little bit of grit,
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because it is going to be tough and new,
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especially as an early career educator. There's probably
10:14
going to be more learning in those three to five years than
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maybe the next 10,
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but what you learn there probably sets the stage for that
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next 10 too.
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Yeah.
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And I would also say that's a really great point, Ryan.
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It sets the stage for your career and the learning you're
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willing to do over time.
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That's really important to reflect on as a new teacher.
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Like, what do you know you can learn?
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What's your capacity to learn and have an open mind about
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new things that come in and new strategies and ways to do
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things.
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So looking through that lens again of just an early career
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teacher and maybe some learning, right,
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that three to five years,
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can you maybe just talk about in your experience,
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things you've seen or things you've done in your roles?
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What is professional development or just learning support
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and mentoring in that first year, two years look like?
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Is it more than you go on in your career?
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Is it less than and it increases?
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How does that look?
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A couple of things.
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I think it really depends on the size of the school
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district as far as like your formal mentoring and your
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formal professional development.
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You know the size of the district,
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what the district has to offer, what access points to like,
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let's say in my state in Washington we call them ESDs,
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Educational Service Districts.
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So you know those...
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it's not quite you know the state board level but you know
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that kind of in between level always offers a lot of PD for
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teachers and even administrators and paras.
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At the beginning you know you have to make up a list of
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interview questions that you want to ask of the interview
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team.
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I think that this is a great one for new teachers to ask: W
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hat professional development opportunities in this district
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do you have and how do I access them? Because if the
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district let's say isn't a big district but works with the
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ESD or the you know the kind of that middleman between the
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state and the district,
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how do I access that offering and what is the expectation
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of professional development for the school district?
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I think that that's a great interview question. Admins will
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love that. That shows that grit,
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that flexibility that wanting to learn more and continuing
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to learn really. That's something to ask for as far as as a
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career goes I would say,
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I mean my early career,
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I think I was working with a teacher who had about 10
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years, 11 years worth of experience,
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and they were my teaching partner in a sixth grade cohort
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and that was my mentor just by default. But that was the
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person that I looked up to.
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I asked questions about you know I always try to find the
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people that I can ask those silly questions to when you
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think you're in a meeting and you know you need to know the
12:38
answer and you want to look like you know the answer and
12:39
then you go on the side and you're like what did they mean
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by that.
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You want to find those types of people that you can ask
12:45
those questions to because it can be overwhelming. you know
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if they don't assign you a mentor,
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find yourself a good mentor that you can ask those
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questions to. As you move through education I think you get
12:55
less and less mentoring and more of the sink or swim kind
12:58
of figure it out. And,
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I would say also that could be the best type of learning
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anybody could ask for because you're going to have to make
13:05
mistakes and reflect on those and be better the next day. A
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nd,
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I think that that is part of teaching because again sometimes
13:10
you don't know who's going to walk in your door and what
13:12
that student's going to need and what that family is going
13:14
to need. Be open-minded to different new strategies and
13:17
tricks and tips make everything a learning experience in in
13:21
the world of teaching.
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It's a really good point because I have some of this and
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just kind of my day-to-day and being around education but
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not necessarily doing it in a classroom.
13:31
You kind of have to be a constant learner.
13:34
It's very much a dinner topic for my wife and I talking
13:37
about everything from her role as an administrator and
13:40
being early in her career to my role as helping school
13:44
districts across the country and how you cross state lines
13:46
and things might be very different.
13:48
And then into how we advocate and make sure that our son
13:52
with his special needs is on the right track to meeting his
13:56
goal.
13:56
So I think that constant learner,not just in education,
14:00
but I think it really shines through in teaching.
14:03
It's something we all could be a little bit better at.
14:06
So last kind of question or I guess thought for you from
14:09
that lens of your career and your profession is just,
14:12
what do you see of being hired by an education staffing
14:15
company versus an internal hire at a district?
14:19
You've had the luxury of kind of using both and seeing both
14:21
in its full nature from start to finish.
14:25
So what do you see is maybe a big difference or is it
14:29
somewhat similar?
14:31
But I would say as a former principal and now a district
14:34
administrator who's running different programs,
14:37
my hope would be the contracted staff member would be just
14:40
brought in like any other staff member would be.
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I mean, they're part of our team.
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They're serving our kids.
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They're probably part of our community at some level.
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Having them be part of the team is the most important thing
14:51
that we can do as administrators.
14:54
I mean,
14:55
that collaboration piece that I talked about as new teachers,
14:57
that goes throughout your career.
14:59
We want teachers collaborating.
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We don't want them flying solo,
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even though they are most of the day in their classrooms.
15:05
But when it comes to times to talk about kids and work on
15:08
interventions and work together as team members at the
15:11
grade levels, like that's key.
15:13
I don't see a difference between a contracted staff member
15:16
and a direct hire, if you will, for the district.
15:20
I want them working hand in hand, the same expectations,
15:23
and again, those get set up at the beginning.
15:25
As far as the staff member,
15:27
there is some more flexibility as an administrator working
15:31
with an agency staff or a contracted staff,
15:34
because typically there's some kind of contract between the
15:38
district and the teachers,
15:39
and we kind of have these rules we need to follow.
15:41
So some of that, there's some nuance differences,
15:44
but I mean,
15:45
on a day to day and how we're interacting with families and
15:47
kids and each other,
15:49
I think that there shouldn't be a difference.
15:52
Yeah.
15:52
It's reassuring for me to hear you say that because I think
15:55
every conversation I have with a district and leadership is
15:59
exactly that.
16:00
You know,
16:00
we want the candidate and the individual to be seen just as
16:05
much as an internal as they'll allow.
16:07
Best case scenario, it's all in.
16:09
Like you just said, other cases,
16:11
maybe it's a little bit of a guard up initially,
16:13
but then as we work through the school year,
16:15
it's operating as usual.
16:17
And the end goal being,
16:18
can that person go internal to the district and have a
16:21
quality career. There's no bigger compliment for us in the
16:24
industry than someone like yourself saying, Hey,
16:26
we love Ryan Lamping, teacher.
16:28
We'd love to have them go internal because that tells us
16:32
that we found you the right candidate, they worked out,
16:35
and now they're going to be in a situation where not only
16:37
are they good for the student population,
16:39
but they address a vacancy that probably gave you a ton of
16:42
headaches for the last six months to a year.
16:45
Exactly.
16:46
That's phenomenal.
16:47
Well, Cathy,
16:47
I want to say thank you very much for the time.
16:49
I know you have a very busy schedule,
16:51
and I hope that the listeners of this gain some valuable
16:54
insight for you as they prep for an early career in
16:57
education.
16:57
Hopefully a very long and fruitful one.
17:00
Again,
17:00
thank you for the time and hope you have a good rest of
17:03
your day.
17:04
You too. Thanks for having me on, Ryan.
17:06
Thank you.
17:07
Thanks for joining us for today's episode of New Teacher
17:10
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17:11
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