Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Joe M about his choice of The Robot Revolution

Transcript

Talks to Joe M about his choice of The Robot Revolution · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt. Pen knife, they're doing
• 0:35
  quicker, quicker. Hello and welcome back to a
• 0:37
  hamster with a blunt pen knife with me, Joe McLachlan, the only
• 0:40
  person who's seen more bum holes professionally than my Co host
• 0:42
  today, Joe Ford. You reckoned.
• 0:46
  Well, it's, it's a high, it's a high number and I've got a lot
• 0:48
  of years to go yet, so. Wives are pretty high number as
• 0:51
  well. I've got more photographic
• 0:55
  record though I reckon. I'll read the ones you see I'll
• 0:57
  proper skanky though, right? I, I don't know where that's, I
• 1:01
  don't know what I'm allowed to say.
• 1:02
  Oh, yeah. When am I going to get in?
• 1:05
  When am I going to get into trouble?
• 1:06
  I'll say I'm sort of a sort of eight out of 10 for being more
• 1:11
  above average. You know, 2 out of 10 of what
• 1:14
  I've seen. Yeah.
• 1:15
  I mean, I'd rather forget. Fair enough.
• 1:18
  And you know what it is I, I don't know what kind of man it
• 1:20
  would make me to be in that situation.
• 1:23
  By the way, I for the, for the listener who doesn't know this,
• 1:25
  I take photos of, I'm a medical photographer.
• 1:28
  So it does come up, but I don't know what kind of person.
• 1:31
  I don't think you'd want to be photographed by me if you knew
• 1:33
  there was a chance I was rating it.
• 1:35
  Yes. I think.
• 1:36
  No, I mean, I would very much like to be photographed by my
• 1:39
  bum, at least if I knew you were racing it.
• 1:42
  It's a fabulous bum, you know. Well, that's good to know,
• 1:44
  That's good to know. It's good to, it's good to know
• 1:46
  we've got places to go as we progress through this.
• 1:50
  And how appropriate, you know, we're talking about the the
• 1:55
  orifice that shit comes out of as we approach the epitome we're
• 2:01
  talking about today. Well, you, you may say that I
• 2:06
  think that's unfair, but I'm curious.
• 2:08
  I'm curious to know your reasons for quite how strongly you feel
• 2:11
  about this. OK, well, you better say what
• 2:14
  first. Well, that's a sensible, that's
• 2:16
  a sensible choice that we're talking about the robot
• 2:18
  revolution from the Series 2 1514 where I don't know either
• 2:24
  way, one of the new ones with young Shooty Gatwa and.
• 2:29
  The most ghastly amalgam of Russell T Davis cliche served up
• 2:35
  in the blandest possible paste, smeared in hideous pastel
• 2:41
  colours with stupid clunky robots.
• 2:44
  Very unlikeable compact. I mean, I could go on.
• 2:47
  I won't but. It's a shame that you won't
• 2:49
  because we've, we've got quite a long bit of this to go.
• 2:52
  I'm hoping you do go on, but also I, I've been, I like, I
• 2:57
  like a lot of this. I really like.
• 2:59
  Well, I mean, maybe we should start there.
• 3:01
  Then why you like this trick? Because I consider you a man of
• 3:04
  huge taste. Oh, that's a very silly opinion
• 3:08
  to have. I sorry, but well, I think it's
• 3:11
  one of those. It's tricky.
• 3:12
  I know RTD 2 gets a lot of slack.
• 3:14
  Not, not slack, Flack, the opposite in many ways, but.
• 3:18
  Very little slack. It's not.
• 3:21
  Yeah. And obviously.
• 3:23
  I think. I think, well, I mean, it has
• 3:26
  its faults and it doesn't just, if I may go on a tangent
• 3:30
  already, are you familiar with the rock band The Green Day?
• 3:35
  Do you have the time to listen to me whine?
• 3:39
  And you will tonight. Oh, I'm confident, but that's
• 3:42
  that's that's from before they were shit.
• 3:44
  And they they had several years ago, they had an album, well, a
• 3:47
  set of albums. They had three albums that came
• 3:49
  out about two months apart from each other and they later turned
• 3:53
  out to be the, because the singer was on a lot of drugs, 36
• 3:59
  songs that came out instead of like just one good album.
• 4:02
  And I feel like this season of these couple of seasons of
• 4:04
  Doctor Who, RTD 2 is basically like that.
• 4:07
  I feel like it's basically, it could have been an excellent
• 4:10
  season. I think there's obviously
• 4:13
  there's stuff that's going on behind the scenes that's kind of
• 4:15
  changed the plan and whatever they've had to do some quick
• 4:17
  fixes that maybe, you know, didn't quite gel in the way that
• 4:21
  they would like to. I think this episode on its own,
• 4:23
  I don't know if that's obvious, because obviously I get the
• 4:26
  impression we weren't supposed to get Belinda, but you know.
• 4:33
  You are correct. Yes, and but in two.
• 4:37
  Year Ruby Sunday plotted out story arc.
• 4:41
  Yeah, and there's a lot of things that towards the end of
• 4:43
  the season make a lot more sense when you know that.
• 4:46
  But this episode on its own, I don't think that's necessarily
• 4:50
  obvious. I think this on it, this on its
• 4:52
  own, I think there's a lot of good ideas that kind of do that
• 4:55
  do work and that do that, that are fun.
• 5:00
  I feel like that's, I don't think he needed the Green Day
• 5:02
  analogy, but I just, I wrote it down.
• 5:03
  So I'm saying it, I have the thought and unfortunately you've
• 5:06
  now got to hear that. He's got typed up notes,
• 5:10
  everybody, all right. He feels as if that for some
• 5:13
  reason now. I mean, did you listen to that?
• 5:15
  I mean, by the time this comes out, they will be long out
• 5:18
  partners in crime and Fathers of Pompeii.
• 5:21
  And obviously, you know, you guys, you listen to everything
• 5:23
  or most things. I mean, you can't listen to
• 5:25
  everything. There's so fucking much of this
• 5:26
  podcast. But how fabulous was he on those
• 5:31
  episodes? Now, for some reason, he feels
• 5:33
  as if his performance was not up to par and has turned up to date
• 5:37
  with so much research and homework as to, I mean, you were
• 5:41
  just wonderful. Well, yeah, but on that one, we
• 5:44
  both liked it. And whereas this one, you said
• 5:45
  you were going to have a real go at it.
• 5:46
  So I just thought I should at least I think if I'd.
• 5:50
  Yeah. But I won't be right, Joe.
• 5:52
  I'll just be loud. Well, often in this world, Joe,
• 5:56
  that's enough. Yeah, no, that is all.
• 5:59
  Everyone that's social media, right?
• 6:01
  No one's right. They're just loud.
• 6:03
  Yeah, but I think as well, there's a there's a degree to
• 6:07
  which obviously part of the other reason that I like this,
• 6:10
  this episode, this series, is that it's the first one that
• 6:13
  I've been able to watch with my son as a new viewer, so.
• 6:17
  Don't you go or Fraser Gregory on me.
• 6:20
  All right, and bring out. Your children.
• 6:22
  Look, I I won't. Well, neither of them will be
• 6:24
  appearing on this episode. Although this morning my wife
• 6:27
  sent me a voice note of my daughter asking if she could
• 6:29
  watch Evil of the Daleks. She's just turned 3.
• 6:33
  I'm so proud. Oh my God, I'm so.
• 6:36
  I mean, I hope for that child, isn't it?
• 6:38
  And I wouldn't say that about many children these days, no.
• 6:40
  No, so, so you know that, you know, this is what I'm saying is
• 6:43
  I've not raised idiots. They you know, they know what
• 6:45
  they'll. Have you know, I feel like you
• 6:47
  have because you're making them watch this nonsense.
• 6:50
  Well, to be fair, we're watching it on broadcast, so we didn't
• 6:53
  know you. Didn't know what was coming?
• 6:54
  No. But that but you know, I think
• 6:56
  there are I think there are some gems in this season.
• 6:58
  This is this is 1. I think this is a middle.
• 7:00
  I think this is middling. I don't think this is perfect.
• 7:03
  I think there's a lot that could potentially be improved, but I
• 7:05
  think there are some great episodes in new seasons and.
• 7:07
  I agree and I'm I'm of the rarest opinion that the first
• 7:12
  series I think is stronger. I think dot bubble and good
• 7:19
  grief, what was? 73 yards.
• 7:20
  Thank you. 73 yards and the Devil's Cord are absolute
• 7:24
  bangers in that first year, and Lucky Day and parts of Story in
• 7:29
  the Engine and Lux were really strong in the second.
• 7:32
  There's great stuff. Here I see I wasn't a fan of
• 7:35
  lucky Day at all. Yeah, well, that's also quite
• 7:38
  mad, but I mean, my fabulous Minnie Gibson's back in that one
• 7:42
  instead of this this Belinda. Now listen.
• 7:46
  Started on Belinda Chandra. I'll hear nothing against
• 7:49
  Belinda Chandra and this is not only because, and I I may or may
• 7:52
  not have shared this with you before.
• 7:53
  I used to work with her mum and I didn't know that until about 4
• 7:56
  episodes into the season. Bring your personal connections
• 7:58
  to this as well. What was today, I was pleased.
• 8:01
  I was pleased to know that I I was already enjoying a
• 8:03
  performance and then halfway through.
• 8:05
  Belinda's mum, Yeah. Or Ferrada's mum?
• 8:08
  Oh. Ferrada's mum.
• 8:09
  Oh no, Belinda's mum turns up in reality War could be that
• 8:12
  actress. Oh yeah, no, that's true.
• 8:13
  I didn't work with her. No, I worked with Verda Seth,
• 8:16
  who's actual mum, and it was only about halfway through the
• 8:19
  4th episode of the season when I just went hang on a fucking
• 8:22
  minute, wasn't it? So beautifully plotted out how
• 8:26
  in this episode she's banging on about consent and how dare you
• 8:31
  force me into all of these things without my consent.
• 8:34
  And then in the last episode of the station, she's forced to
• 8:39
  have to face the worst nightmare I could ever imagine, being a
• 8:43
  mother without even having the child.
• 8:45
  Well, I will say this actually that I, I didn't realise.
• 8:48
  So like I said before, I don't retain an awful lot of
• 8:51
  information with these things. I just kind of enjoy them as
• 8:53
  they're happening and then I just move on with my life.
• 8:56
  So God knows what I'm doing here.
• 8:58
  But the But the I didn't realise when that ending first hit.
• 9:04
  I just thought that the doctor hadn't been paying attention for
• 9:07
  the entire time. She'd always had a daughter,
• 9:09
  which is loads Bear like the idea that he's.
• 9:11
  Absolutely. Should have been the season.
• 9:13
  Yeah. And if he were four ahead, then
• 9:16
  that that should have been the season.
• 9:17
  Get me back to my daughter. Yeah.
• 9:20
  That I could have got behind just her going.
• 9:22
  Get me back. I want to be a lowly paid
• 9:25
  medical student living in a hideous house.
• 9:27
  Share. I'm like, why?
• 9:28
  Why do you want that? Against going and exploring the
• 9:32
  universe. Yeah, see, that's the thing.
• 9:34
  So I like the fact that she didn't.
• 9:36
  I like the fact that she didn't want to be there.
• 9:38
  I think it's been a while since we've had one of those.
• 9:40
  I think that, you know, Donna was the one who who fought
• 9:43
  against him, but she still was excited to be there.
• 9:45
  I don't think we've had one like that since Tegan.
• 9:47
  But and even then, she eventually, she came to it
• 9:49
  eventually. The difference is though, right
• 9:51
  is Donna. Donna shows a huge amount of
• 9:54
  empathy in The Runaway Bride, and Donna is presented as not
• 10:00
  just a boisterous but a sympathetic character.
• 10:03
  I just don't think Belinda is in any way likeable in this.
• 10:07
  She's pushing against the story. She's pushing against the
• 10:10
  characters. And the trouble is, right this
• 10:13
  story is trying to tell, it's trying to be a scathing
• 10:16
  commentary on in cells, right, on toxic masculinity and how men
• 10:22
  can, you know, treat women appallingly and throw blame at
• 10:26
  them and all of these things, right.
• 10:28
  But weirdly, the episode so it seems to suggest that this was
• 10:31
  all Belinda's fault and so absolutely kicks against that,
• 10:36
  but also presents Belinda as a truly unlikable person.
• 10:42
  So I'm like, so the the boyfriend's a cunt and Belinda's
• 10:46
  a cunt and so who am I supposed to like in this?
• 10:49
  I I don't like eye review and I don't want to see your hideous
• 10:52
  toxic romance. Chad, I don't feel that I agree.
• 10:55
  She's I don't. I think he's definitely a con
• 10:57
  and I love you. Point out the moment where she
• 10:59
  is gentle and empathetic and funny because I just couldn't
• 11:03
  say anything. I will, I don't think, well, do
• 11:07
  you know what it is? I think, again, I don't know if
• 11:09
  this is a personal thing or not, but I, I think she comes across
• 11:13
  as an A&E nurse, which is, which is quite nice.
• 11:16
  But, and I've, I think there's a, there's something to be said
• 11:19
  like that sort of no nonsense, like I'm not taking your
• 11:21
  bullshit attitude that I, I quite liked in her.
• 11:25
  She's just like the fact when she, when they're on the rocket
• 11:27
  and she's taking quite a lot of it in way more of a stride than
• 11:30
  you'd maybe expect for somebody who had not ever been to space
• 11:32
  nor had she ever planned to be. And I think in my head, I'm just
• 11:35
  like, she's most just probably surprised this rocket wasn't up
• 11:37
  somebody's ass. It's she's just like, she's just
• 11:40
  grateful for that. She's just like, I don't know
• 11:41
  what the fuck's going on, but there's nothing more I can do
• 11:43
  with it. Just think, I just think there
• 11:45
  is a way of doing the acerbic companion, doing the Tegan
• 11:49
  thing. And I don't think it was done
• 11:50
  well with Tegan either. And that is Donna it is.
• 11:54
  You have the person there who's willing to butt his with the
• 11:56
  Doctor, who's willing to have a different morality and a
• 11:59
  different opinion, but he's absolutely up for the adventure,
• 12:02
  absolutely loves the Doctor. And I just don't get the sense
• 12:05
  of that at all. So at the end of this story, I
• 12:07
  meant, I remember this going out, right?
• 12:09
  And I was so up for this because I had hated Empire of Death and
• 12:13
  I had hated Joy to the World, right?
• 12:15
  So I was in a low place with Doctor Who, probably the lowest
• 12:18
  I've been since Series 7B, you know, sort of nightmare and
• 12:22
  silver sort of time time with the Doctor.
• 12:24
  And I was like, oh God, maybe, you know, I was starting to
• 12:27
  think maybe I've outgrown this version of Doctor Who.
• 12:31
  Maybe this just isn't for me anymore because I'm not enjoying
• 12:34
  it on any level. And then this came and I was
• 12:37
  like, oh great, we're going to get a Partners in Crime style
• 12:40
  RTD, you know, funny, silly opener.
• 12:45
  And I watched it and I left it going.
• 12:48
  I just hate that. I hate this.
• 12:50
  And, and I think I have, I've officially outgrown Doctor Who
• 12:55
  now. I realised by the end of the
• 12:56
  season I hadn't because there was stuff that I liked.
• 12:59
  But I'm sort of like, I don't want to shoot these doctors
• 13:02
  annoying me at this point. All that babes, honey, all that
• 13:06
  stuff. I just don't like any of that.
• 13:09
  He's got a companion that doesn't want to be there and is
• 13:12
  a proper old grump. It was literally dragging down
• 13:16
  the fun factor in the show. So I don't want to go on
• 13:19
  adventures with her. And that was before I got to the
• 13:23
  nuts and bolts of the story, how it was presented.
• 13:26
  Like, did you see the concept art for this?
• 13:29
  Did you see it? No.
• 13:29
  I don't think I've seen. It those fabulous drawings of
• 13:33
  all of the big sort of comic spaceships.
• 13:35
  It looked like something out of the TV 21 sort of Dalek strips,
• 13:39
  you know, absolutely stunning. And then what I got on the
• 13:43
  screen, they for some reason they done with all of these sort
• 13:47
  of pinks and Peaches pastels. So everything had this sort of
• 13:51
  weird, fuzzy, ugly look about it.
• 13:53
  And I was like, oh God, this could have been that sort of
• 13:57
  fabulous 50s retro sci-fi and it was just ugly CGI.
• 14:02
  That bugged me as well. See, I don't know.
• 14:05
  I like the I, I like the style of it.
• 14:08
  I like the Jetsons kind of thing that they've got going on.
• 14:10
  I think it. Ain't the Jetsons though.
• 14:14
  It's the Jetsons, drawn by a four year old with ugly pastels.
• 14:18
  Yeah, I've got no issue with that I think.
• 14:22
  I told you I was going to come for this one, didn't I?
• 14:23
  Yeah. I don't know if I've maybe got
• 14:28
  what have I got? I don't know what I've got.
• 14:29
  You know what I've got? Fight me Joe, fight me as long
• 14:33
  as we can use oils. Yeah, I think, I think.
• 14:36
  I promise. Always as long as as long as
• 14:41
  they tasted something. Oh man, I've got to shut up now.
• 14:48
  I'll let you talk for a bit. Oh.
• 14:50
  God, I don't know. I don't know what, I've don't
• 14:53
  know how to respond to that, which is probably not great, is
• 14:56
  it? I think we've got.
• 14:58
  I do wonder if, because obviously the whole point of
• 15:01
  these, the point, the whole point of this as a, as a concept
• 15:04
  is that, you know, you talk about it, talk through the story
• 15:07
  and stuff. I, I feel like this is one of
• 15:09
  those ones where this is more of a like this isn't, this isn't,
• 15:14
  you know, this is, it's not mind blowing.
• 15:16
  It's not, you know, if we're talking in sex terms, I'll put
• 15:18
  it, I'll bring it on to your level.
• 15:19
  If we're talking in sex terms, this is not the best shag of
• 15:22
  your life. This is it's sort of a it's a
• 15:23
  nice little wank to just kind of get you through the morning.
• 15:26
  This is not a wank, all right? This is a wet dream.
• 15:30
  That someone you don't even fancy?
• 15:33
  I strongly dispute that. I fancy this.
• 15:36
  This. I was good.
• 15:37
  This is one of the questions I had for you this morning.
• 15:39
  Whenever. Well, what time is it now?
• 15:40
  I don't know. We.
• 15:42
  This is probably. Yeah, not the morning.
• 15:46
  I reckon this is the fittest, tightest team of outrageous.
• 15:49
  What shootie and the? Shootie and Verada, yeah.
• 15:54
  Well, yes, I mean, I yes, I would agree with you.
• 15:58
  Unfortunately, I know too much behind the scenes information to
• 16:05
  I've used to think Shooty Catwal was an extremely, extremely hot
• 16:09
  man and now I just see somebody who's very ugly.
• 16:13
  But we will go into that off mic.
• 16:17
  OK, that's fair enough. Yeah, looking purely.
• 16:19
  Looking purely, purely. Sometimes knowing this stuff
• 16:22
  does not improve. Well, that's what that do.
• 16:26
  You know what? That's one of the things I get
• 16:27
  the the impression with them is why, Like I say, I don't want
• 16:30
  you to tell me until afterwards because I'm more than happy to
• 16:32
  have it ruined for me, but it won't be helpful for me when I'm
• 16:34
  not when I'm trying to defend it.
• 16:38
  I yes, they shooting is very pretty, but you know what isn't
• 16:43
  pretty about him is he knows he's pretty and he presents that
• 16:46
  he's pretty. That's.
• 16:47
  True. The scripts constantly tell us
• 16:50
  that he's pretty and the characters are always saying
• 16:52
  that he's pretty, and I think it's because RTD is absolutely
• 16:55
  beguiled by Shooty Gatwa. That's cool.
• 16:58
  With that. And I think that spills into the
• 17:00
  series to a point where, you know, he's doing all of that
• 17:04
  classy, you know, and, and being a hip, gorgeous young black man,
• 17:11
  but not actually being the doctor.
• 17:14
  Yeah, I think that's, do you know what, I don't think that's
• 17:15
  an unreasonable critique. I think that's there is a moment
• 17:18
  I think towards the end of this where and which I which we'll
• 17:22
  talk about when we get there. But there is a moment to this
• 17:24
  where I I think he's as much the doctor as he ever is.
• 17:29
  But we can talk about that when we get there can.
• 17:30
  I can I ask you a question, Have you read the Una McCormack
• 17:33
  novelisation of the? Have I?
• 17:36
  I don't know. I've read a couple of the new
• 17:38
  targets. I don't know if I've read that
• 17:39
  one yet. I'm not.
• 17:40
  Going to consider that an endorsement of the book if you
• 17:42
  can't even remember whether you've read it.
• 17:44
  Look, I look, I've already said I remember fucking nothing.
• 17:47
  I've I've I've read a lot of very important, impressive books
• 17:50
  that I can't remember a single fucking thing about.
• 17:52
  What I will say is that is a revelation.
• 17:55
  It is a wonderful read. The actual episode that Christ
• 18:00
  doesn't actually start until Pace age 60 or something, and
• 18:04
  she fills the 1st 60 pages with this wonderfully witty
• 18:09
  interactions between Belinda and all the people she does the
• 18:12
  house share with. She tells the sequence you know
• 18:15
  where the robots turn up at her house.
• 18:17
  That dreadfully directed sequence in the episode, through
• 18:20
  a series of text messages of of her flatmates all going, I think
• 18:25
  something's going on downstairs. It's that weirdo Belinda.
• 18:28
  I can hear her screaming. Oh, she's got another man in.
• 18:31
  And always it's, it's really funny stuff.
• 18:33
  I've definitely not read that. The actual episode itself is
• 18:36
  only about about 60 pages at the end of the book because she said
• 18:40
  I didn't interview her. She said like the pace of the
• 18:42
  episode is so fast. If you want to fill 130 odd
• 18:46
  pages then you need to add something because there just
• 18:49
  isn't a second wasted. It's always on the move.
• 18:52
  This episode from from picking her up to the revolution
• 18:56
  happening at the end of the story.
• 18:58
  It's great. That allowed me to see what
• 19:03
  could be here, yeah. But yeah, OK, that's
• 19:07
  interesting. I've definitely not read that.
• 19:08
  I would remember that. I'll definitely recommend that
• 19:10
  you do though at some point. Yeah, no, I definitely I
• 19:13
  probably probably should have read it in in preparation
• 19:15
  really. But maybe it would have.
• 19:16
  Maybe I'd have been too excited about the book to to talk
• 19:20
  positively about the TV well at. Least I can't for say something
• 19:22
  positive. Yeah.
• 19:23
  No, that's it's nice that you've got that IE system.
• 19:28
  Yeah, I mean. What point would you like us to
• 19:29
  go into the episode so we start watching it and start discussing
• 19:33
  all of these points? Or do you want to still continue
• 19:35
  the brawl in the preamble? No, I think, you know what I
• 19:38
  think? I think I've, I don't think I've
• 19:40
  got anything that's my, my notes start at the episode quite like
• 19:44
  early on. So I I feel like I've only got 3
• 19:46
  lines before that and we've covered all of that so we can
• 19:50
  start. I just really want to, you know,
• 19:52
  like we started with bum holes. I just want to shit on this from
• 19:56
  such a great high only because I, I cannot, I can't describe
• 20:01
  the palpable sense of disappointment I felt when I
• 20:04
  watched this. And my other half said that was
• 20:06
  fine. It was fun, it was fine.
• 20:08
  And I was like, what do you know?
• 20:10
  You don't know anything. For God's sakes.
• 20:12
  Jesus Christ, No wonder your podcast is so terrible.
• 20:15
  I was in a terrible way. I was messaging all my friends
• 20:17
  that loved it going, I fucking hate all of you.
• 20:19
  You know, I was, I was not happy.
• 20:23
  So. So you're already vaguely aware
• 20:25
  that you're in the minority then with this?
• 20:27
  I don't. Think.
• 20:28
  Do you think that? I don't think I am, no.
• 20:31
  I certainly not with RTD 2 and I don't think with this.
• 20:34
  I think certainly most people think this is average at best.
• 20:39
  Yeah, I'm certainly not going to try and claim it's it's partners
• 20:41
  in crime, but there are similar, there are similar beats.
• 20:44
  I'm not, I'm not, I'm not an idiot, but.
• 20:46
  Fraser Gregory would. Yeah, that's, that's fine.
• 20:49
  He that's, he's got a very particular set of skills which I
• 20:52
  don't think I possess, but but thank.
• 20:54
  God. But but I'm certainly, you know,
• 20:56
  I certainly didn't hate it. And I think like I said, I don't
• 20:58
  think I, I was saying before about it.
• 21:00
  This is the first season that I've been able to because we
• 21:01
  watched, obviously last season came out at midnight.
• 21:05
  So I was able to watch that. So I watched that on my own.
• 21:07
  So I was able to kind of review this why he hasn't my son hasn't
• 21:10
  seen 73 yards because I just sort of saw that and was like,
• 21:13
  not yet. There'll be, there'll be time.
• 21:15
  That said, he sat through the well, we didn't have to pause it
• 21:19
  for a bit and have a chat and just kind of go listen, I'm not
• 21:22
  skipping anything. If you don't want to watch it,
• 21:24
  that's fine. I can watch this later, but I'm
• 21:26
  not skipping bits because you're scared.
• 21:28
  It's entirely up to you whether you want to continue watching.
• 21:30
  And he was like, it's OK, I'll, I'll, I'll stay, I'll, I'll
• 21:33
  watch it. Bless him.
• 21:34
  And he and we got through to the end and he he hasn't lost any
• 21:37
  sleep over it. I don't think so.
• 21:38
  That's scary. Then was it try harder?
• 21:43
  He was. He was shitting himself.
• 21:47
  I loved that bit where everyone got thrown about the room.
• 21:49
  Yeah, no, it was great. I think that just that not that
• 21:51
  we're talking about this one today, but like that effect of
• 21:54
  the the thing just kind of that the face just popping up behind
• 21:56
  people is shit scary. That is what.
• 21:58
  A shame we're not talking about that one today.
• 22:00
  I know because the fun we could have had talking about that one,
• 22:03
  it's sounded his. Oh crap, now?
• 22:05
  It'd have been too easy. Too easy.
• 22:06
  Oh. OK, All right, well, hang on.
• 22:09
  Who started this, you or me? You I I started it.
• 22:11
  Yeah, I see. Then no, go for it.
• 22:14
  It's your podcast. Let's go.
• 22:15
  Well, it's our podcast today. Let's let's go into the
• 22:19
  Hooniverse. How's that going, by the way?
• 22:22
  The Hooniverse. It does feel a little bit like
• 22:25
  that fell down very quickly, isn't?
• 22:27
  It pause slightly. Yeah, he did come in a little
• 22:30
  bit all guns blazing. That's clearly not quite worked
• 22:33
  out how he planned as it, which is a shame.
• 22:36
  Sad, you know that? The third, you know, in colour
• 22:39
  cut down black and white story has been cancelled because I
• 22:42
  know what that was going to be now.
• 22:44
  Yes, I believe I do as well. Are we allowed to say it if
• 22:47
  we've not heard it from official sources?
• 22:48
  Doctor Who has been required. I'm just say that.
• 22:54
  Just that, yeah. Yeah, it's just, it's just
• 22:55
  there. Yeah, I assume we heard that
• 22:57
  from separate sources. It'd be weird if it was the same
• 22:59
  person that we both had look at. That Oh my God.
• 23:01
  Wow. Imagine.
• 23:02
  Find out now. Look, make me a promise, Yeah,
• 23:07
  All right. I'll try.
• 23:08
  I'll try. Like, you know, I mean, I've got
• 23:11
  and I adore you, Joe. Yeah, but I adore many people.
• 23:15
  I still don't have to sit down and watch the robot revolution
• 23:17
  with those people. So, like, I will watch this.
• 23:20
  Yeah, but you do promise there will be naked wrestling between
• 23:23
  us at the end, right? I will do my very best to ensure
• 23:26
  that, but I will have to bring. Access to your only fans.
• 23:32
  That's so. That's always free for you,
• 23:33
  Jack. What sort of things do you do on
• 23:37
  there? It's mostly it's just reading,
• 23:39
  reading out it's doctor novels, but I haven't got any.
• 23:42
  Clothes on, that's literally all I need from only fans, that's
• 23:47
  all I want. Do you?
• 23:48
  Know what? You'd probably make A fairly
• 23:49
  decent one, Yeah, I think. Well, look, should we go in?
• 23:55
  Yeah, go for. It we can't, you know, avoid
• 23:58
  watching the robot revolution by flirting all night, I'll count
• 24:02
  us in then in universe ago in 54321 Miss Belinda Chandra one
• 24:12
  ago are. We on the we've got the little
• 24:14
  Hudaverse logo there. Stupid name for a planet for
• 24:17
  God's sakes. I mean, that's a terrible joke.
• 24:20
  And I do, you know, I, I like the joke.
• 24:22
  I'm happy to say I like the joke.
• 24:23
  I like it as a concept. Now look at this shot here.
• 24:26
  Yes, right. There's a terribly lit shot
• 24:30
  there's. I think it's supposed to be
• 24:32
  outside. Why does it look like it's in
• 24:33
  the studio? Well, I see this is the thing.
• 24:36
  I feel like there's a lot of this.
• 24:37
  This episode is very much the recipient of the.
• 24:40
  Are you familiar with the the the the quote about that's about
• 24:45
  just dissecting comedy? It's kind of like dissecting a
• 24:47
  frog. Nobody's having fun and the frog
• 24:49
  dies. That's kind of where I feel like
• 24:51
  a lot of this episode is not. You can't go too deep with it.
• 24:54
  There is this there's themes to be had, but it's I don't know.
• 24:57
  I feel like you're, you know, stuff about direction.
• 24:59
  So I'm going to struggle to to defend that, but I like how
• 25:03
  immediately he's obviously a prick.
• 25:05
  I like that. There's no there's no question
• 25:08
  of that. I also think I one of the other
• 25:11
  things I really like about is is the continuation of the RTD 2
• 25:14
  theme of denoting people's age through hairstyle.
• 25:17
  And, well, I mean, nothing will ever beat Ruby in the enormous
• 25:21
  glass of wine. Will it?
• 25:22
  No, I think, no, I think, I think it looks like they go to
• 25:26
  Rydell High, it looks like. Yeah, from Greece too, though
• 25:29
  not Greece one. I mean, he definitely looks like
• 25:32
  younger. She literally looks exactly the
• 25:35
  same as she does later in the episode.
• 25:37
  Yeah. To be fair, he's got quite a lot
• 25:39
  of makeup on. Him you are so beautiful, why
• 25:44
  are you in this old bullshit? But this is the thing, I think
• 25:47
  it's a really, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like
• 25:49
  it's a very accurate representation of those early
• 25:51
  sort of 1617, those kind of relationships where you don't
• 25:53
  really know who you are. I've not.
• 25:55
  I will confess I've been with someone.
• 25:56
  Buying star maps and having awkward kisses.
• 26:00
  I was fucking up back alleys. Well, you and I are very
• 26:04
  different people. I've I will.
• 26:08
  Sit with me, kid, You'll learn some things all right.
• 26:10
  I really liked it. I really like the star thing.
• 26:12
  But I will say in my head, you know, actually I'll come back to
• 26:15
  that thought when it's framed in a bedroom later.
• 26:17
  I've got thoughts on that. Now, I want to compare this to
• 26:20
  Smith and Jones, right? Smith and Jones, that fabulous
• 26:22
  episode to introduce Martha Jones in a hospital, right.
• 26:26
  And in a series of economic phone calls between her family.
• 26:29
  You know, everything there is to know about that family.
• 26:32
  Yeah. Their dynamics, where Martha is,
• 26:35
  where she is in her life, her profession, what she's aiming
• 26:38
  for, everything. It's all there in 2 minutes,
• 26:41
  right? Yeah.
• 26:42
  I want you to tell me one thing we learn about Belinda Chandra
• 26:45
  in this entire episode. I think in this and I think this
• 26:49
  scene tells us that she's a diligent young nurse who's
• 26:51
  trying to do her best in a very busy work environment and it
• 26:54
  kind of but that. That could be anyone.
• 26:56
  But it tells us about. Oh, that very busy shelf
• 26:59
  stacker. Trying to do my best in a
• 27:01
  belligerent environment. But that's so.
• 27:03
  That's so. Plain but but but from that I
• 27:06
  think it just it just sets her out as a person who.
• 27:08
  Who works hard? Well, who's just kind of ready
• 27:12
  to take it? She, she, she likes a challenge,
• 27:14
  though. It's like ACVI can't look I I
• 27:16
  can't read ACV to you. My other half says to me, yeah,
• 27:19
  think of it as a challenge every time I've got to do something
• 27:22
  miserable like watch the robot revolution, OK?
• 27:25
  But I'm in people like. A challenge.
• 27:27
  They just have accepted a shit life.
• 27:30
  Potentially. But see I think this is the
• 27:32
  thing. I don't think it does it as well
• 27:34
  as partners in crime, but it has got that same sort of people
• 27:37
  that keep crossing each other in corridors.
• 27:39
  And I said to you last time, I'm never going to not enjoy that.
• 27:41
  I'm always going to think that's funny, I don't care how much.
• 27:43
  Artists in crime. It is done like an art house
• 27:45
  movie. It's so beautifully timed.
• 27:48
  Here. It's just if there, she's there.
• 27:51
  That's true. I will say so the star being
• 27:54
  framed, I feel like people have picked on that before.
• 27:55
  It's like, why the hell would she still have that?
• 27:56
  This is however many years later why she's still got that framed
• 27:59
  on the thing. I would if you've never had any
• 28:01
  other significant other, it's a nice thing for you to have like
• 28:04
  just as a general thing that that said, that argument falls
• 28:07
  down very quickly. While I remember that my friend
• 28:08
  did my buy me and my wife one for our wedding present and it's
• 28:11
  in a drawer somewhere and I have no idea where it is.
• 28:12
  What, you mean there's a star named Joe McLaughlin?
• 28:15
  I think it's named after my wife and I, so it's somewhere I
• 28:19
  couldn't. I couldn't.
• 28:20
  Watch out Joe, there's loads of robots coming in your house.
• 28:23
  They're best fucking not because we've just had these patio
• 28:25
  doors. Done.
• 28:25
  No, they've smashed the windows. Oh please, can we talk about
• 28:30
  these fucking robots? I like the robots.
• 28:33
  That is a They're so cumbersome. How did they take over a planet?
• 28:39
  They can't even walk more than 2 1/2 miles an hour.
• 28:42
  I think as a Doctor Who fan, you're probably on very shaky
• 28:45
  ground when it comes to that. I think we listen.
• 28:48
  How did the Mono's take over it? How did the Mono's take over
• 28:50
  anything? How did the?
• 28:51
  That staircase as well, unfortunately it was clearly
• 28:53
  made out of plywood or something there, that's why it just
• 28:56
  whacked. I thought it was the same.
• 28:57
  I thought it was the same house as in did you ever see Star
• 28:59
  based? Sarah Jane story The Empty
• 29:02
  Planet where they had very similar looking robots but they
• 29:05
  were a lot slimmer and way more dynamic.
• 29:08
  I've not I've not seen it, no. I'm go and have a look all right
• 29:11
  and then compare them to this. Do you think these robots when
• 29:14
  they when they've got a fault, that it comes up with the little
• 29:17
  engine lights when on their faces like you've got, when you
• 29:20
  like, when you've got but. It's just the emoji bots from
• 29:23
  Smile again. That's another issue I have with
• 29:25
  this. There's no originality in this
• 29:27
  episode whatsoever. That's.
• 29:30
  Stomping around a house like this.
• 29:32
  We just did this in the Star Beast.
• 29:34
  How do you feel about the cat? Hilarious that I do like.
• 29:38
  That that's good. OK, I'm glad to agree on that.
• 29:41
  I was, I was. I fucking adore cats, but I'm
• 29:44
  sorry that it's really funny. I haven't got, but I haven't got
• 29:47
  much more to say on it than that.
• 29:48
  I just wanted to check because I think that's fucking hilarious.
• 29:50
  The line about tell her the cats, what was it tell her the
• 29:56
  cats gone on all day or something that is quite.
• 29:58
  Funny live on a farm, I think. Yeah.
• 29:59
  Yeah, now look at this. Now this is a great example of
• 30:02
  how changing from Ruby to Belinda just doesn't work at
• 30:07
  all, because the idea that Mrs. Flood is now suddenly Belinda's
• 30:11
  neighbor rather than Ruby's neighbor is so pony.
• 30:15
  Yeah, probably. But again, is that because you
• 30:17
  know that? Because if you didn't know that
• 30:19
  the idea that she's ever I. Said it when we were watching
• 30:21
  though, I said. Oh come on, she can't be her
• 30:24
  neighbor as well. But if you because she's already
• 30:26
  turned up in a lot of other places, so it's not like that's
• 30:29
  without precedent. That, that's that flying saucer
• 30:34
  thingy, that big penis that's just gone up in the air there.
• 30:37
  Yeah, that could be so artful that it just looks like a really
• 30:41
  shit Tinker toy. That's my issue with the
• 30:44
  designs. They look like really, you know,
• 30:47
  like, you know, like when you had Transformers, you probably
• 30:50
  didn't when you were younger and then you had the cheap knock
• 30:53
  offs that turned up in Poundland.
• 30:54
  That's what all the designs look like in this the cheap knock
• 30:57
  offs. Yeah, but I like it though.
• 31:03
  I like it. If you can't just keep saying I
• 31:06
  like it. I'm just, I'm trying to do you
• 31:08
  know what? Annoyingly, I have made very
• 31:09
  little notes in between that's. Why?
• 31:13
  I can keep talking all right? I can keep.
• 31:16
  Talking I just in my head I was like, I've made very
• 31:17
  comprehensive notes. So it turns out I've made
• 31:19
  absolutely fuck all for in between that first bit, but.
• 31:21
  I think I just look like a big penis though, that shit, doesn't
• 31:24
  it? It does.
• 31:25
  Like I say, I think Farida's just probably grateful it's not
• 31:27
  stuck up somebody's ass when she's come from work.
• 31:29
  That's true. I did like, you know, the
• 31:31
  lighting, you know, when she was in her bedroom and it was all
• 31:34
  that close encounters of the fur kind, the lighting all coming
• 31:36
  through the window like that going up.
• 31:38
  That was quite nice, quite atmospheric.
• 31:40
  Who is the director? Because I'm not very good at
• 31:42
  directors. Who's who's the director?
• 31:43
  I don't know but I hope he was sacked at the end of this and
• 31:46
  never worked for the BBC again. Yeah, see, I like, I like the
• 31:51
  bit where she's sitting in the rocket.
• 31:52
  She's just kind of taking it on a stride as well.
• 31:54
  I think that's quite. I feel like we that kind of just
• 31:57
  like ability to just kind of go fuck it, I guess.
• 32:01
  OK, fine, whatever. Like that's I like that about
• 32:05
  her as a character. I don't know if it's not a deep
• 32:07
  thing, but I like that quality. I think my issue when I was
• 32:10
  first watching was like, you know what?
• 32:11
  I don't really know you as a character.
• 32:14
  I don't really, I haven't got to like you.
• 32:17
  You like usually my weigh in is with humour, right?
• 32:20
  And RTD does that brilliantly. In RTD 1 he makes characters
• 32:23
  funny. So you really like them?
• 32:24
  Straight away I had no feelings for Belinda whatsoever and she's
• 32:28
  in a situation of extreme danger here where she's been taken up
• 32:32
  into space and I'm like, yeah well I don't really care.
• 32:34
  Who is she? I don't know, like why should I
• 32:36
  give a shit? Hey.
• 32:38
  Look at that rocket that looks so it looks like a bloody
• 32:41
  banana. Yeah, but at least it's got a
• 32:43
  Flathead base, so it's not getting stuck.
• 32:44
  That's the main. Joke, who there now this
• 32:47
  character here? What's her name?
• 32:49
  This woman. Sasha, 55.
• 32:51
  Sasha 55, supposedly the Doctor's companion for the last
• 32:55
  God knows how long. I mean, look how boring she is.
• 33:00
  We're given no indication as to why you'd want to hang out with
• 33:03
  this tedious character to we're expected to emote over this
• 33:07
  person that we know for a single scene.
• 33:10
  Yeah, I do think, yeah, I do wonder how much it would have
• 33:13
  made it feels. Do you know what Sasha 55 to me
• 33:15
  feels like Sylvester McCoy in ATV movie like.
• 33:20
  In as much function. In as much as there's no like
• 33:26
  taking it purely on its own as a piece of work, McCoy being in
• 33:30
  that film does distract from the fact that of the doctor as a
• 33:33
  character. And so we're so we spend time
• 33:36
  grieving. Apparently this guy, no idea who
• 33:38
  the fuck he is. I do think that she's a little
• 33:39
  bit like that in in this. But I like the idea that he's
• 33:42
  been living on this planet and this is like his wee mate.
• 33:45
  I do kind of. I like that that's a thing.
• 33:48
  I don't think it's necessarily the most well.
• 33:50
  We're given no reason to care about that woman, and yet we're
• 33:53
  expected to really care about how he feels about her.
• 33:57
  We don't actually see them have any kind of a relationship.
• 34:00
  It's so bizarre. And it's not because, and again,
• 34:03
  I'm not going to disagree with that, I think the frenetic
• 34:05
  basis. Is that the Gadget gadget robot
• 34:08
  from Waters of Mars? Oh no, wait, it's Polish.
• 34:10
  Polish. It's fucking lovely.
• 34:12
  If you'd had if we if this is in 2006 or 7, you'd have had that
• 34:16
  as a remote control. Idea.
• 34:17
  So we've been here, we've done it.
• 34:19
  And it's never bad. RCD 2 man, where are your
• 34:23
  original ideas now do. You know what I love?
• 34:26
  Polish. Polish.
• 34:27
  I love it a lot. It's a gadget gadget, right?
• 34:29
  Yeah, and even saying it twice, I'm not going to again, I can't.
• 34:32
  I can't defend it in too much detail, but I can tell you I
• 34:35
  fucking love it and I won't. I'm.
• 34:38
  Getting your heads up now. Good.
• 34:40
  I want one for my house, that's what I want.
• 34:42
  Look at that terrible CGI out the window.
• 34:46
  I mean it looks like they put up a fucking picture.
• 34:50
  Where is the Disney money? I'm not.
• 34:52
  I'm not taking that from a fan of Time with the Rani.
• 34:56
  Time with the Rani has a beautiful pink sky and lovely
• 34:59
  rainbows going over. That's it.
• 35:02
  Time with the Rani was also made on 100th of the budget of this.
• 35:07
  Yeah, well, look when they. Actually managed to go outside,
• 35:11
  you know. When you.
• 35:13
  When we were on that big platform outside.
• 35:16
  Yeah. And it is the shots, the flat
• 35:18
  shots of Belinda and Sasha, 55. I'm sorry.
• 35:23
  The CGI there is really bad and the matting in is terrible.
• 35:28
  It looks, it looks. It reminds me of Star Trek
• 35:31
  Voyager in 96. Yeah.
• 35:33
  Do you know what I've never noticed bad CGI and I don't know
• 35:37
  if that's just a me thing or what.
• 35:38
  The only time I've ever noticed it is the first time I ever
• 35:40
  watched anything on like a it was like a four KTV.
• 35:43
  My parents had got a new one you.
• 35:44
  Ever watched Babylon 5, Joe? No, I've not.
• 35:47
  Oh go and watch that then you'll see some bad CGII.
• 35:50
  Just I remember watching it was I was home for Christmas.
• 35:52
  My parents had got a new telling.
• 35:53
  It was the snowman. What is?
• 35:56
  This Joe, the Great God Oz come down, this big robot face like
• 36:01
  it's all just happening so quick.
• 36:03
  And I think that is. Again, why do we care about
• 36:07
  Belinda? We don't know her.
• 36:08
  Why do we care about how she feels about the random things
• 36:11
  that this episode is throwing at her?
• 36:13
  I do think it's, it is weird that because I feel like they
• 36:17
  could have had just another 5 minutes to just just let it
• 36:21
  breathe. It doesn't, it doesn't breathe.
• 36:23
  It's too, it is too fizzy. I'm not going to again, I can't
• 36:25
  deny that. But I think it to get people
• 36:29
  into the city because it's, you know, it's it's series out
• 36:32
  there. It's a bit of fluff.
• 36:33
  I'm not wanting too much from it, but I am wanting to be
• 36:35
  excited by it and I feel like I was.
• 36:37
  I think fluff can be very Partners in Crime is a very
• 36:41
  skilfully made comedy with huge depth.
• 36:45
  There's real nuance there. You know, the scenes between
• 36:48
  Donna and Wilf, the scenes between Donna and Sylvia?
• 36:51
  Yeah, the scenes between Doctor and Donna at the end of the
• 36:53
  story, There's real emotional heft to them that isn't here at
• 36:58
  all. Oh, and As for this, this
• 37:03
  stupid, It was every 10th word. That's how you sneak in your
• 37:08
  revolutionary propaganda. I I think we've hung stories on
• 37:14
  considerably less and I I quite like the idea, though there is a
• 37:18
  bit where he shouts now and I think they all they all seem to
• 37:20
  notice that one I. Mean they're supposed to be
• 37:24
  robots, right? I don't know why they're not.
• 37:26
  Just wonderful shots and very accurate and don't just murder
• 37:29
  everybody the second they realise that they're they should
• 37:32
  be quick, right? They're machines for fuck's
• 37:34
  sake. That's but that's always that's
• 37:36
  always the case for any of these kind of enemies.
• 37:38
  So is that even the Daleks? You sort of thought you've got
• 37:40
  one Dalek that can take down a fucking planet, and then you put
• 37:42
  a whole. In Chris Chipnall's time, in
• 37:44
  Chris Chipnall's time, those Daleks murder people left, right
• 37:47
  and centre. It's wonderful.
• 37:49
  Yeah. Well, yeah, that's true.
• 37:51
  I don't mind the repeating bit either.
• 37:52
  I feel like I've heard a lot of criticism of that.
• 37:53
  I don't mind the bit whether he repeats the words because I feel
• 37:56
  like as I would struggle as a viewer to kind of keep up with,
• 37:59
  like I would struggle to hold in my head the full sentence that
• 38:01
  he's trying to say. I don't mind that they repeat
• 38:03
  that. I think that's helpful.
• 38:05
  Maybe I'm just, maybe I'm just sick, but I quite, I don't mind
• 38:08
  it. I wonder I, I, I don't.
• 38:10
  I cannot fathom why but I wonder if he keeps Belinda's like back
• 38:18
  story or hook. I just don't think there's a
• 38:21
  hook there. A hard worker is not a hook.
• 38:24
  Right? Like that's that's just not a
• 38:26
  personality hook to make you go whoa.
• 38:29
  I really want to go venturing with her.
• 38:31
  So I can only think he keeps her vague.
• 38:33
  So those depths sort of flourish as the season goes on.
• 38:38
  What actually happens this season is she gets less and less
• 38:41
  to do as the episodes go on, and eventually she's just shoved in
• 38:45
  a bloody box with a kid for 20 minutes of an episode because
• 38:49
  she was never supposed to be in those episodes.
• 38:53
  I think it's tricky though, because I feel like there's a
• 38:54
  lot of it's very difficult when you know what's coming.
• 38:57
  It's really hard to sort of just take this as a self-contained
• 39:00
  thing, which. Can't.
• 39:02
  I'm sorry to interrupt, I just can't take this action
• 39:05
  seriously. Right?
• 39:06
  These robots are stomping about very slowly with their angry
• 39:10
  emoji faces because people don't really hide.
• 39:14
  They're hiding like 60s characters barely behind the
• 39:18
  consoles. It's just so badly directed do.
• 39:22
  You think the robots were made by the same people as, you know,
• 39:24
  the ones from dinosaurs on a spaceship?
• 39:27
  I think they're the same, same breed.
• 39:29
  I've got my voices of Mitchell and Webb, I suppose to say that
• 39:32
  at least quite like the one with the arrow in his face.
• 39:35
  At least we haven't got to look at his stupid emojis anymore.
• 39:38
  I like the emojis. I'm just going to like you say,
• 39:41
  that's my classroom. It's that just a very Gen.
• 39:43
  Z thing though? Like emoji?
• 39:45
  I'm not. I'm not Gen.
• 39:46
  Z, I'm 36. Oh, sorry, I thought you were
• 39:49
  younger. You know you for exuberance
• 39:52
  about you. Yeah, I don't know how that's
• 39:54
  happened with the two kids. That's fucking exhausted.
• 39:56
  Two kids are fatty sex, man. You've been pumping them out.
• 39:59
  You. Yeah.
• 40:04
  They've put a stop to that. That was a sigh.
• 40:07
  Say yes, Joe. You're not making my life any
• 40:09
  easier by shitting all over my favorite Doctor Who episodes.
• 40:13
  I'm not going to put it as a favorite.
• 40:15
  So pleased. Oh no, Sasha 55 is dead.
• 40:19
  Oh boohoo. I think then so, so fix it then.
• 40:23
  How do you do you think if we'd had more than if we'd had a
• 40:25
  little bit of time like a maybe, I don't know, like a bit at the
• 40:28
  beginning with her where we're setting her up, like where we
• 40:31
  see the doctor and her as mates? Or do you think a bit more time
• 40:34
  with her would have fixed that? I would have had him on the
• 40:38
  planet for all that time. I just wouldn't have gone down
• 40:40
  the you're going to feel sorry for this one scene character.
• 40:44
  I just, there's no way, not even Rusty Davies, who is a skilled
• 40:47
  character writer, can pull that off.
• 40:49
  I don't think it takes how long? 15 minutes with that tedious
• 40:55
  character and joy to the world that he sits in a hotel room
• 40:58
  with for a year. Oh.
• 41:00
  That's cheese it. Takes It takes 15 minutes for us
• 41:03
  to give a doubt about her, but you can't do it in one scene.
• 41:07
  No, that's probably fair. But I again, I'm sad that you
• 41:10
  don't like Anita. I feel like Anita's nice.
• 41:12
  I don't. I don't.
• 41:13
  I didn't. Another one who had a baby
• 41:15
  forced upon her in the. Again, I didn't need her to come
• 41:19
  back. I like to just enjoy to the
• 41:20
  world. I liked her.
• 41:22
  I liked her in that. I think Joyce of the World's the
• 41:24
  only episode I hate more than this.
• 41:26
  Yeah. No, I, I, yeah.
• 41:28
  Happy COVID everyone. Well, I have thoughts on that,
• 41:32
  but I don't want to get into that because I could talk about
• 41:33
  it for probably too long. Look at this, Shooty Gatwar is
• 41:36
  crying as the Doctor. Well, there's a new look.
• 41:39
  Yeah, I don't know if I I don't think I mind the crying, but I
• 41:41
  don't know why it's a catch phrase like it.
• 41:44
  Exactly exactly. I like tears and I like seeing
• 41:47
  men cry. I just don't like seeing men cry
• 41:50
  every 5 minutes. Yeah, I kind of, it feels like
• 41:53
  he's kind of like squeezing it out, like a like a bit of juice.
• 41:56
  He's just kind of like, and there goes the sadness and we
• 41:58
  move on. Always.
• 41:59
  No, I reckon he's method. He's looked at, watched himself
• 42:02
  in the mirror for hours, crying. Could you take a picture of me,
• 42:07
  please? I think this might be my best
• 42:09
  crying. Yeah.
• 42:10
  You think I wonder because we've we've had grieving as the
• 42:12
  Doctor, we've had grieve, you know, 10 and 11 do it loads.
• 42:16
  You know, even like Capaldi with his, you know, with this, the
• 42:21
  shit with Clara, like I feel like it's kind of refreshing to
• 42:24
  have a Doctor Who just kind of fucking goes.
• 42:27
  I'm dumb. But like, I kind of like that
• 42:29
  you just get done with it. You know who's better than
• 42:33
  what's his name? Hoover.
• 42:34
  Hoover. What's he called?
• 42:35
  Polish. Polish.
• 42:36
  Polish Polish is twirly from Kablam, you know the the the
• 42:41
  robot that goes hello, people like you with symptoms like you
• 42:45
  order blood pressure tablets to the doctor because he's really
• 42:48
  witty, whereas all he does is come along with his catch phrase
• 42:51
  and mop the floor. Yeah.
• 42:53
  He's got no personality about him.
• 42:56
  He's just just running around the floor hunting for jizz.
• 42:58
  I was sort of like, oh, don't get me started on that end.
• 43:02
  Well, no, we'll get there. We will.
• 43:04
  We will get there. I will say I now this is do.
• 43:07
  You not think the aesthetic of this now is looking very the
• 43:09
  Doctor's daughter? Isn't it sort of the cheapest
• 43:11
  cave they could possibly find with a bit of technology in it?
• 43:15
  Yeah, not to not to join your side too much, but I really hate
• 43:18
  the Monday Flynn stuff. I really wish they'd just left
• 43:20
  that there. I don't think there's any need
• 43:21
  for that. Oh, it doesn't pay off, does it?
• 43:24
  No, I think no. And I didn't need it to.
• 43:26
  I didn't want it to. I'm just more than happy for
• 43:28
  that to just be left alone. But it's like, I think it's
• 43:30
  interesting though, with the, I feel like we get a lot this with
• 43:33
  with modern, modern series. We get so attached to actors in
• 43:36
  roles and obviously with Doctor Who that's that's a big part of
• 43:38
  it anyway. But I thought they like the
• 43:40
  actor. Yeah, no, but back back in the
• 43:42
  back in the day you had it was not, you know, I'm thinking of
• 43:45
  like the 30s Universal horror films.
• 43:47
  You've got you're iconic Boris Karloff as Frankenstein,
• 43:50
  Dracula, Ben Lugosi and Longe Longear Junior as the Wolf Man.
• 43:53
  But each of those actors played each of those characters
• 43:56
  separately in various films. They were just switching around
• 43:57
  all the time. It was never a big fucking deal.
• 44:00
  I really they I would have loved.
• 44:01
  It cushion in the Hammer movies, you know.
• 44:03
  Exactly, I'd have loved. It.
• 44:05
  I'd have loved it if they could have just let her be a different
• 44:08
  character and just got on with it.
• 44:09
  I really didn't. Know that, no.
• 44:11
  Or do a terroristics cover it with a line like with Martha and
• 44:13
  that character she played. What was it?
• 44:15
  My cousin worked in Torchwood Tower.
• 44:17
  I think she died. Yeah, right.
• 44:20
  That does it. I suppose it's probably quite
• 44:22
  difficult to say. I imagine I will have a cousin
• 44:24
  in. Positive to say, Joe, there was
• 44:27
  a sequence there a second ago where you saw the flying saucers
• 44:29
  coming in over the city. Now that was a nice bit of CGI,
• 44:32
  and I should tell you from why, it's because it hasn't got
• 44:35
  people matted into it in a really unconvincing way, making
• 44:39
  the scale look wrong. It was just a nice bit of
• 44:41
  effects work. Now that was quite nice.
• 44:44
  I like this as an idea, the idea of people with different
• 44:46
  internal organs. I like the idea that like these
• 44:49
  humanoid species that we see that they aren't the same.
• 44:52
  I do. I like the and I like the X-ray
• 44:53
  blanket. I think that's cool.
• 44:55
  It does wind me a. Lucky way to show how the Doctor
• 44:58
  is an alien with. Two wells.
• 45:00
  It does wind me up though. I was thinking about this a lot.
• 45:02
  It it winds me up when he does it that he has no other internal
• 45:05
  organs. But Can you imagine, fandom if
• 45:07
  they'd showed you the place of all of his internal organs?
• 45:11
  We'd be up in arms. It would be a bigger change to
• 45:13
  Canon than the Timeless Child. Like he can't have a spleen that
• 45:17
  goes there. Oh, shut up.
• 45:23
  I just don't need the doctor to be a hipster, all right?
• 45:28
  I just don't like it. I know what he's doing.
• 45:31
  He's trying to appeal to the kids.
• 45:32
  But guess what? Only 2 million people were
• 45:35
  watching this episode. The kids weren't fucking
• 45:37
  watching, all right? Well, I think I know one who was
• 45:42
  and he really liked it so. Your son.
• 45:45
  Yeah, well, if I made me insult your son, come on.
• 45:47
  I'm systematically murdering everyone's children.
• 45:51
  I'm not, Joe. I'm not.
• 45:52
  Please don't take me seriously. Oh, I, I, I, I can't.
• 45:56
  I can't. But I might turn you into a
• 45:59
  puddle of cum by the end of this episode, all right?
• 46:03
  I hope you're promising the I do think I will say I don't like
• 46:08
  the in theory, the bit where he says I'm the doctor and she
• 46:11
  says, Oh well, I'm called the nurse, that that line should be
• 46:14
  great. But for some reason that's
• 46:15
  really tedious that I like the joke.
• 46:17
  But I find the delivery really tedious.
• 46:19
  And that's my main criticism. I mean, I'm looking at the
• 46:21
  dialogue. Yeah.
• 46:21
  I just think Russell Davis is such a funny writer.
• 46:25
  Yeah. He can write brilliant,
• 46:27
  brilliant comedy, you know? What sort of country do you
• 46:29
  think this is? Oh, it's a beautifully fat
• 46:31
  country. You know, he's very funny.
• 46:33
  Why does none of this dialogue sparkle?
• 46:37
  It seems it does. It does seem a weird approach
• 46:39
  for these two seasons that how much law they decided to just
• 46:42
  shove in, but given how successful it had been to not do
• 46:46
  that the first time they started.
• 46:47
  In The Star Beast with David Tellen talking straight out the
• 46:51
  screen. That was heinous.
• 46:53
  That was just awful. I would to go from Jodie
• 46:56
  Whittaker, beautiful Jodie on Turtle Door, you know, tag,
• 47:01
  you're next to that. Like what the hell?
• 47:04
  I know it. Yeah, that was such a weird.
• 47:06
  That was such an odd move. I didn't get that.
• 47:09
  I do wonder, you know, why they didn't, you know, the flux
• 47:12
  format, the six episodes, mini series?
• 47:14
  Yeah, that's so like what television is now.
• 47:18
  And RTD 2 is So what television was in 2005.
• 47:23
  It's so weird that they didn't take that and run with it.
• 47:26
  Yeah, it's it does seem a strange, it does seem a strange
• 47:29
  move. Just thinking before about what
• 47:31
  you were saying about the doctor being a hipster.
• 47:32
  I I feel like it'll be able you'll be able to look at it
• 47:35
  more fondly when there's been another doctor afterwards
• 47:37
  thinking, Jesus Christ, that guy.
• 47:38
  No, I, I do You know what? Usually yes.
• 47:41
  Yeah, usually, always, yes. I just, I don't get it.
• 47:46
  I, I think shoot Cat was an incredible actor.
• 47:48
  Don't get me wrong. I think he had some really
• 47:50
  powerful moments. The end of dot Bubble, he is
• 47:53
  extraordinary in that scene, storing the engine when he gives
• 47:57
  that big speech at the end, phenomenally good.
• 48:00
  But I don't know what, I don't know why, but I just think RTD
• 48:05
  was so in love with that very sexy man that he just decided to
• 48:10
  have him play it as Shooty Gatwa.
• 48:13
  Do you? Think Shooty Gatwa is is.
• 48:16
  Do you think he's RTDS Clara? Absolutely, yes, absolutely.
• 48:22
  Definitely. You can tell on the red carpet
• 48:24
  announcement how much he's just so excited to have.
• 48:27
  Like, Can you believe it? I've heard a suggestion as to
• 48:30
  who the original person they cast and then shoot to get what
• 48:33
  came in last minute. And RCD was like, fuck him.
• 48:38
  And I think the other option would have been a much smoother
• 48:43
  and more successful ride. And it's such a shame because
• 48:46
  you know what? I've been such an advocate for a
• 48:48
  black doctor. I fucking love the roof doctor
• 48:52
  brought in. And I was just, I just was so
• 48:56
  happy that if they weren't going, go going back to a man,
• 49:00
  bring in a black man and bring in a gay man, you know, and just
• 49:04
  make a statement. Yeah, But then it was, it was
• 49:08
  played like the sassiest gay man ever.
• 49:11
  And I'm like, yeah, I just don't feel like the doctor.
• 49:14
  And maybe that's because I'm an old git.
• 49:15
  I don't know what you mean. It's the problem.
• 49:18
  Well, it's, that's hard to say, isn't it?
• 49:20
  Because I don't know if that's, I like that, that's AI like,
• 49:25
  yeah, I like that they did those things.
• 49:27
  Again, I'm not sure how much of A stereotype you needed to be.
• 49:30
  It doesn't feel like the doctor, though.
• 49:33
  No, he has it again. He has his moments.
• 49:35
  And like I say, there was a bit right to the end of this, which
• 49:36
  I don't think I'd realise until I rewatched it for this, but I I
• 49:40
  was like, oh shit, that's, that's fully the doctor, I
• 49:42
  think. But that's like I say, it's not
• 49:45
  all the time. This guy, by the way, the guy
• 49:47
  holding the thing up by himself, The man, what's his name?
• 49:49
  Is it Manny? He's shit.
• 49:51
  He's funny. I mean, it's a terrible
• 49:54
  performance. It's the thinnest of characters.
• 49:57
  Like, I don't think he has a character, but he's in a tank
• 50:00
  top and he's got his muscles out, so I still want to cover
• 50:02
  him in Tehran Salata, you know? Polish.
• 50:05
  Polish. Deep Polish Polish.
• 50:10
  I love a cute robot as well. I just think that's the most
• 50:12
  boring cute robot I've ever seen.
• 50:15
  I. Think.
• 50:17
  It ain't canine, is it? He's got a bit of personality.
• 50:20
  No, that's true. I'm assuming you're not a fan of
• 50:22
  what Belinda does here either with sort of calling the robots
• 50:26
  to come and get her. I'm assuming that's a heinous.
• 50:29
  Herself sacrifice you. Mean.
• 50:30
  Yeah. How do we feel about that?
• 50:32
  Well I mean at least she's doing something positive for once in
• 50:35
  the story, and plus if she did succeeded I wouldn't have had to
• 50:39
  watch her boring character for the rest of the season.
• 50:42
  That's true. Oh, actually, I'm fully behind
• 50:43
  it. OK, fair enough.
• 50:45
  I do like shoot his hair in this one though.
• 50:47
  The sort of Afro. Yeah, it's pretty cool actually.
• 50:50
  Yeah, that's good. I wonder.
• 50:52
  Who are these people, Joe? Who are these secondary
• 50:55
  characters? I can't tell you.
• 50:58
  They're very one-dimensional. Who's?
• 50:59
  In your notes as the most vivid of them all.
• 51:02
  Oh, I, oh, I didn't get as far as vivid.
• 51:04
  Nobody's vivid. Christ.
• 51:07
  They could be right. They literally could be.
• 51:10
  I've not seen characters this, you know, unformed since we went
• 51:14
  down to the planet Christmas and that woman from only Falls and
• 51:16
  horses went hello, welcome to the planet Christmas.
• 51:19
  Do you remember? No.
• 51:21
  I'm not sure I did actually. That's the reason for that.
• 51:25
  Oh, they're so slow. For God's sakes, how did these
• 51:28
  robots take control? They're so slow.
• 51:31
  Yeah, that's. They walk like I walk when I
• 51:37
  need a poo. Yeah, maybe they do need a poo.
• 51:41
  Maybe that would. Maybe they're all just.
• 51:43
  Equivalent of having a poo. Just getting it's nuts out.
• 51:51
  Sorry that was that. Felt like a very panicked
• 51:52
  response. Oh, I love it though.
• 51:55
  I love it. Oil change.
• 51:57
  Come on. I I mean, I think defeating
• 51:59
  these robots isn't much of A triumph.
• 52:01
  They're so stupid. Yeah, I don't really.
• 52:04
  It's, I don't really understand what?
• 52:08
  Yeah, like I say, it doesn't. I will.
• 52:10
  I will confess I came quite quickly to the conclusion when
• 52:14
  making notes for this, it doesn't really bear much repeat
• 52:16
  watching. And it was fine at the time, but
• 52:19
  the more I tried to think about it, the harder it gets.
• 52:21
  I I like that design though. The AI generator thing.
• 52:24
  I think that's really cool. It's very stupid, but it's.
• 52:28
  Yes, I mean, but it's basically deep thought from Hitchhiker's
• 52:33
  Guide to the Galaxy it. Is which is basically.
• 52:35
  The same design with a face on it.
• 52:37
  Yeah, which would make sense. Which she's been in a dressing
• 52:39
  gal and half of it as well, so that sort of makes sense.
• 52:42
  Yeah, but this ain't Hitchhiker's Guide to the
• 52:44
  Galaxy. But it is The thing is right.
• 52:46
  Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy without a Brain and Without
• 52:49
  Jokes. But it is so the, the, the AI
• 52:52
  generator thing is the exact sort of thing that a 16 year old
• 52:55
  boy kidnapped by aliens who then made him their king would say,
• 52:58
  yeah, that's what I want. So it kind of, it fits.
• 53:01
  I like it. I think it makes sense.
• 53:02
  So did you never grow up in the intervening years then?
• 53:05
  Because he's in control of the planet.
• 53:07
  So he's still like 16 in his head, yeah.
• 53:10
  Well, yeah, basically I think he's, you know, if you he's
• 53:13
  been, I think that's the problem with it because I think that's
• 53:14
  what that's part of the comment for me is the fact that he's
• 53:17
  kind of isn't that is that online Arrested Development kind
• 53:20
  of thing. Like he will like it's like an
• 53:21
  evil Ender's Game. Like he's got no sense of the
• 53:24
  the things that he's done when he's killing all these people.
• 53:26
  Obviously this is a bit later on, but when he's killing all
• 53:28
  these people, all these stuff that he's doing, he's got no
• 53:29
  content in the fact that he's real.
• 53:31
  Same as when you're hiding behind an identity online, you
• 53:34
  you kind of you just accept you just like you don't think that
• 53:37
  the nasty things you say in the comments you make, you don't
• 53:39
  think that they actually hurt anybody.
• 53:40
  And I think that I think that comes across I'm not.
• 53:43
  Hurting you today am I? No, no, not at all.
• 53:46
  No, I can see your face. I know your name and I can see
• 53:48
  your face. There's no anonymity.
• 53:49
  Afterwards, all right, just to know there's no hard feel,
• 53:51
  although there might be hard feelings if I'll give you a
• 53:53
  massage. Thanks man, I appreciate that.
• 53:56
  I'll, I'll write that down in me.
• 53:58
  I'll put I'll book it in. I don't float with anyone as
• 54:01
  much as I do use. It's a problem, you know.
• 54:03
  Well, good. That's the effect I like to have
• 54:07
  on people. Now look here now when the man
• 54:10
  comes out, you know, Great Oz or the in sale man, Yeah.
• 54:14
  Oh, it's really unpleasant looking face, isn't it?
• 54:18
  Sort of robotic face. He looks like they've shoved
• 54:21
  sort of cut tin foil all over his face.
• 54:23
  So I think that's what might be what they've done well.
• 54:25
  Possibly. I do know what again, I really
• 54:27
  like the makeup. Disney money Joe it.
• 54:30
  Looks like robot sil. I like it.
• 54:32
  I haven't seen this much tin foil since The Twin Dilemma, you
• 54:36
  know? Or just the AI owl?
• 54:41
  Do you know what I've got? I've got a nice joke about this.
• 54:44
  I came up with that he has told the robots that they can call
• 54:47
  him out if they'll be his bodyguards.
• 54:49
  That's a good joke that it's about Paul Simon.
• 54:51
  I don't know. It's not.
• 54:54
  I made myself laugh loads. I will not give you the dignity
• 54:57
  of a response. No, it's not.
• 54:58
  Sure, it's not bad. That's not.
• 55:00
  Bad, but again, I like but yeah. We sing the song, Man walks down
• 55:06
  the street, says how did a little bit go?
• 55:11
  If you be my bodyguard, I can be your longest pal.
• 55:16
  I can call. You, Eddie.
• 55:18
  Eddie, when you call me you. Call me now.
• 55:23
  Call me. Yeah, that's basically that's
• 55:26
  the vibe. But yeah, I like that he's gone
• 55:28
  to a bit. Also, I don't think the name is
• 55:30
  any more dumb than Natasha and the 17 I think that is.
• 55:34
  I feel like there must have been people in the 70s when that when
• 55:37
  face of evil went out that they went oh fuck off when that when
• 55:41
  that reveal was done. There's no way people weren't
• 55:44
  thinking that. And now we're just like, it's
• 55:45
  part of the law. But it's no more stupid than
• 55:48
  that. No, this is way more stupid than
• 55:51
  that. Hang on, This is why I just
• 55:54
  don't believe this planet. I don't believe it conceptually.
• 55:58
  I don't believe it in execution because the the CGI is so
• 56:02
  terrible. I I don't believe it as a
• 56:05
  society because I don't get close to anybody in it.
• 56:08
  So to me it's just, it is like a cardboard set.
• 56:12
  I know it's not, but that's what it feels like to me.
• 56:16
  It's so substance less and and it's built on a really bad joke
• 56:21
  of a premise. Well, yeah, I see.
• 56:25
  I definitely think Planet of the Incels was the what came first,
• 56:28
  wasn't it? That's definitely the he thought
• 56:30
  of that and then wrote the episode based.
• 56:31
  Around the planet of the Incel. Yeah, well, the robots probably
• 56:36
  aren't getting much either. And he and he is just such a
• 56:39
  dull villain. Yeah, I think he.
• 56:42
  Gave us Miss Foster, you know, but is the doctor.
• 56:45
  If I never see you again, it'll be too soon.
• 56:49
  Is is the point. Not that he's done though.
• 56:50
  Is the point not that he's so fucking boring.
• 56:52
  There's nothing to him because he's because he is a nothing.
• 56:55
  Make a political message. Make a message about in cells,
• 56:58
  yeah, but don't make it. Don't make Doctor Who boring
• 57:01
  because of it. Maybe.
• 57:04
  Maybe it's the fact that it's boring is the art of it.
• 57:06
  That's that. James Lark said something
• 57:08
  beautiful to me the other day when he was in my in my lap in
• 57:11
  my house the other day. He said that he thinks that
• 57:15
  there should be political messages in Doctor Who or there
• 57:17
  should be messaging in Doctor Who, but it should never come at
• 57:21
  the expense of the story. Yeah.
• 57:23
  Or the adventure or the ideas. And I think the messaging of
• 57:28
  this, it comes at the expense of the ideas, which just don't hold
• 57:32
  up for me. It certainly comes at the
• 57:34
  expense of the story because the villain is so pony.
• 57:38
  So I'm wondering if it's worth making the point if if the
• 57:43
  entertainment is affected because of it.
• 57:46
  Maybe. Yes, that's probably not an
• 57:48
  invalid point. It's difficult to argue against
• 57:50
  because it's not something I wrote down last year.
• 57:53
  You, you know, you can't say things other than things you
• 57:56
  wrote down, you know? Oh, I struggle.
• 57:58
  No. You don't.
• 58:00
  You don't. I can I can talk forever, but
• 58:03
  whether or not makes any sense is really the is really the
• 58:06
  issue. I suppose the middle section is
• 58:09
  a little bit RoboCop, isn't it? That's quite cold.
• 58:11
  Yeah, I, I really, I really like that costume.
• 58:14
  I think it's it's weird. I don't really understand why he
• 58:17
  became a robot. I'm assuming that he's kind of
• 58:18
  just rotting away to become not very much.
• 58:20
  And how do we actually does he establish how long he's actually
• 58:22
  been there? Well, since he was a teenager,
• 58:25
  we just saw him going in as a teenager.
• 58:27
  Yeah, but he so. What's that, 2020 years?
• 58:30
  I don't know. How old is he supposed to be
• 58:31
  now? Because if it's all, it's all
• 58:34
  tiny, why? I'm into it.
• 58:35
  So you know, we don't know. I mean, I've not seen A twist
• 58:40
  worse than they named the planet Miss Belinda Chandra 2 because
• 58:44
  of that weird star present that he gave her.
• 58:49
  The only twist I've seen worse than that was the end of Girl in
• 58:52
  the Fireplace, where they're looking for her just because the
• 58:55
  spaceship's called BSS Madame de Pompadour.
• 58:58
  Like, it is as pony as that. But that's a really great
• 59:03
  episode. Yeah, that's, yeah, that is a.
• 59:06
  Good one. And how is this all paid off in
• 59:09
  the end? You know about the style
• 59:11
  certificate? He just throws it out the door
• 59:14
  in the reality War and goes there we go.
• 59:16
  We'll we'll pick that up again in the future.
• 59:18
  What? Yeah, because the robots are
• 59:20
  going to find it in the future. So it's paid off by he throws it
• 59:23
  into space it. Should be part of a story, not
• 59:25
  oh wait, I've forgotten this is how this all started.
• 59:28
  I'm going to throw it out the door.
• 59:31
  Well, you know, some people might say that.
• 59:34
  It feels it doesn't work, the season feels, it does feel
• 59:37
  rushed and I know it wasn't because this was the second year
• 59:40
  they plotted out two years. So this was the the year that
• 59:43
  they had most to to structure. Yeah, so was this supposed to be
• 59:47
  like an ex-boyfriend of Millie's then?
• 59:50
  So. She she, the, the outline that I
• 59:55
  saw was that she had a boyfriend when she left the doctor in
• 1:00:00
  Empire of Death, so that was still supposed to happen.
• 1:00:04
  And then that boyfriend, I don't think it was this.
• 1:00:08
  I don't know if the robot revolution was going to happen,
• 1:00:10
  but the boyfriend that she had between seasons was going to be
• 1:00:13
  Jonah from Lucky Day. Right.
• 1:00:16
  OK, got you. That was the original idea,
• 1:00:18
  which is why she gets the scene with him at the end of the Yeah.
• 1:00:24
  It's weird to change bits of the plot, but not all of it.
• 1:00:28
  Like it seems weird to. It seems so.
• 1:00:30
  Actually the reality war is is twice compromised because once
• 1:00:33
  it was supposed to have Millie in it and two, it wasn't
• 1:00:36
  supposed to have that ending so it was rewritten like twice.
• 1:00:40
  Yeah, it's, yeah, it definitely. It definitely suffers from that
• 1:00:44
  well. Now what's happening now?
• 1:00:45
  Oh, where's he gone? Where's he now?
• 1:00:46
  He. Exploded because of the
• 1:00:48
  Blenhevich limitation effect. Is this where he's like the
• 1:00:51
  cummy splodge on the floor? Yeah, I would just, I like this
• 1:00:54
  and I think I was thinking about this earlier because I was
• 1:00:56
  thinking where is the line for me?
• 1:00:58
  I don't want the doctor to kill people.
• 1:01:00
  I don't think that's ever really, I don't think it's ever
• 1:01:01
  OK, although he, you know, he has done and will do in from
• 1:01:04
  time to time. But I do think it's OK to think
• 1:01:06
  it's a bit funny if a total bastard gets turned into
• 1:01:09
  apologies. I think that's, I think that's
• 1:01:10
  where the line is. It's somewhere in between those
• 1:01:12
  two things. I think it's and you know, there
• 1:01:15
  are plenty of people in the world in power now who if you
• 1:01:17
  gave me the option to stop all the bad stuff by turning them
• 1:01:20
  into a puddle of Com, let me press the come button.
• 1:01:22
  I will happily just I will slam that come button right?
• 1:01:25
  Now I'm on the other side of that line.
• 1:01:27
  Unfortunately, I, I, I think, you know, there are lots of
• 1:01:30
  problematic people in the world. I mean, Jesus, I think we all
• 1:01:32
  have problematic falls. So a lot of us just pretend that
• 1:01:36
  we don't. And I just don't ever think a
• 1:01:40
  violent reaction it is an acceptable reaction because
• 1:01:44
  that's what bad people do. And that makes us bad people.
• 1:01:48
  This makes the doctor a bad person.
• 1:01:50
  But has he but has it was how much that was on purpose, Alex.
• 1:01:53
  He wasn't a deliberate. I'm not sure how we've gone from
• 1:01:57
  like, what's her name, Blonde Fell Foch in God, what's that
• 1:02:03
  episode called? I've no idea.
• 1:02:05
  In season 1 Bad, not bad Wolf Boomtown.
• 1:02:09
  You know when she gets turned into an egg at the end and she
• 1:02:11
  gets a chance at her second life and and despite the fact that
• 1:02:14
  she's murdered people and she's done horrific things that he
• 1:02:18
  hasn't done that he hasn't murdered people.
• 1:02:20
  Well, I suppose. He's murdered people, he's
• 1:02:21
  murdered quite a lot of. People, didn't he?
• 1:02:22
  Yeah. He's murdered a lot of people.
• 1:02:25
  And also we don't know for a, we don't know for a fact that
• 1:02:27
  Polish, Polish didn't pick up the sperm and the egg and start
• 1:02:29
  congesting them and start like incubating them.
• 1:02:32
  Can you not see? How badly massed in they are
• 1:02:35
  here. Look at that.
• 1:02:36
  It's so flat behind them. They're in, so they're on a
• 1:02:39
  little. They're on in a little.
• 1:02:40
  Like wallpaper rather than a little fuzzy.
• 1:02:42
  Tunnel. They're in a little fuzzy
• 1:02:44
  tunnel. It's the tunnel, I say.
• 1:02:45
  Look fuzzy. Terrible.
• 1:02:47
  Yeah, but why? Why not have it nice and sharp?
• 1:02:50
  I don't understand. I'm not here to give you why,
• 1:02:53
  I'm here to explain. Oh look, the cute man got
• 1:02:56
  actually looks a bit like Matt Michael, you know, does my
• 1:02:59
  hamster commentaries. I don't know if he's got arms
• 1:03:00
  like that, but. That's going to really change
• 1:03:02
  how I listen to those now. Well, Matt, Michael.
• 1:03:04
  Yeah, actually, yeah, there with a lot of people, A lot of
• 1:03:07
  people. I don't know what they look.
• 1:03:09
  Like, oh, I suggest you check some of them out, you know, and
• 1:03:12
  you'll realise you're wasting your time talking to me.
• 1:03:15
  Well, if you know, nobody else replies to my emails so.
• 1:03:18
  Oh, fair enough. You are called Mad Paddington
• 1:03:21
  after all. Well, absolutely, it's enticing,
• 1:03:25
  I do say. I will say I do find his energy
• 1:03:27
  really great in here, but I wonder if that's just how much
• 1:03:29
  because she just isn't into it. You take great or grating.
• 1:03:33
  Grating. Grating.
• 1:03:34
  I do find him grating. Annoying now, it's now if she
• 1:03:38
  was sort of like, you know, dancing with him and and so do
• 1:03:41
  you remember him and Millie in Devil's Cord when they went up
• 1:03:44
  and then they came out in the new clothes and we're going down
• 1:03:47
  dancing through the TARDIS. That's great.
• 1:03:50
  She's going, oh, you're such a twat.
• 1:03:53
  Yeah, see, I see. I think I like that.
• 1:03:55
  And I think this is where he gets for me.
• 1:03:57
  This is where he gets his doctor moment.
• 1:03:59
  We've not quite hit it yet, but I feel like I'll start now.
• 1:04:01
  So the bit where he scans her and and she's like, that's not
• 1:04:07
  fucking cool. And you can see in his face how
• 1:04:11
  fucking pissed off he is that that somebody's not impressed
• 1:04:16
  with him. But like he's trying.
• 1:04:18
  Like when he apologised he used that probably.
• 1:04:19
  Shooter, you know, not the doctor.
• 1:04:21
  Maybe, well, maybe, but you know, again, if we're getting
• 1:04:24
  the doctor, I'll shoot. He got well then maybe that's
• 1:04:26
  where they cross over his characters because she she's
• 1:04:28
  like, I'm not fucking impressed by you.
• 1:04:29
  Get me home. This is bullshit.
• 1:04:31
  I don't want to be here. Like sure, there was fun bits,
• 1:04:33
  but like I want to go home now and he's like, but can't you
• 1:04:37
  see? I'm fucking brilliant.
• 1:04:38
  And he doesn't want to say that because he doesn't want to be
• 1:04:41
  rude, but he's like, he's got that sort of he's just like,
• 1:04:43
  I'll fucking show you. Like I just, I don't believe his
• 1:04:46
  apology and neither does she. But like there's just there's a
• 1:04:50
  tension behind him that's just kind of, it feels very like I'm
• 1:04:54
  trying to think, I don't know who else would be like that,
• 1:04:56
  who, which other Doctor I could maybe compare him to, But it
• 1:04:58
  just feels like there are, I think the 10th Doctor has a lot
• 1:05:01
  of like whenever somebody's not taken in by him, like with
• 1:05:05
  Donna, I guess, to A, to an extent.
• 1:05:06
  But like, you know, I like the fact that he obviously it's then
• 1:05:14
  it's problematic that it's then paid off in the interstellar
• 1:05:16
  Song Contest because despite it, see again, I, I didn't mind a
• 1:05:21
  lot of that episode. Just take away the context
• 1:05:23
  globally of of why that is problematic.
• 1:05:25
  I didn't mind the episode, but I do think the bit towards the end
• 1:05:28
  where she goes, you're brilliant, you know?
• 1:05:31
  Is he just watched him torture A genocide survivor and that's OK?
• 1:05:36
  It's not OK for him to scan her. No, it's the strangest.
• 1:05:40
  It's the strangest bit of paying off because in my head I was
• 1:05:43
  like, the kindest way you could look at that would be for her to
• 1:05:45
  be saying that because she's frightened of him now and she's
• 1:05:48
  kind of trying to, and you could play it that way.
• 1:05:50
  There's in. I'm not saying that.
• 1:05:51
  Would be good thing that's what they were.
• 1:05:52
  Going no, no, it's very clearly not.
• 1:05:53
  But if you wanted to be as generous as you possibly could
• 1:05:55
  be, that would be maybe where you.
• 1:05:57
  RCD said in an interview. He goes.
• 1:05:59
  I love that scene where she goes up to him.
• 1:06:00
  She's so clearly utterly in love with him, so she is just an
• 1:06:05
  avatar for RTD at that point. Yeah, because because he But
• 1:06:08
  it's true. I'll say it doesn't make sense
• 1:06:10
  but but in that scene he clearly has finally got what he fucking
• 1:06:13
  wants and now he's. Absolutely obsessed with him at.
• 1:06:17
  That point, even even though it's not earned in the scene,
• 1:06:20
  just in isolation, the fact that she's saying that but but I.
• 1:06:24
  Come the last episode, she's forced into a relationship with
• 1:06:28
  him, She's forced to have a child with him, you know?
• 1:06:31
  Yeah, like I say, well, my version's better.
• 1:06:34
  And it's so odd as well that she does start like I, I, I don't
• 1:06:37
  like this scene. As you know, it's Anna.
• 1:06:40
  It's because I, I don't need every companion to be like, woo,
• 1:06:43
  let's go. Oh my God, travelling with you.
• 1:06:45
  I love you so much. But I do kind of want to go on
• 1:06:48
  the adventure, you know, a little bit.
• 1:06:51
  But please, instead of get me home every week, get me home.
• 1:06:55
  What? Bugs me about Belinda is is her
• 1:06:57
  role lessons with every single episode to story in the engine
• 1:07:02
  she's just an ex. She's standing in the TARDIS for
• 1:07:04
  half the episode and then she's just standing in the barbershop
• 1:07:08
  in interstellar Song Contest. She literally the doctor she
• 1:07:11
  thinks is dead and she just falls apart and starts weeping
• 1:07:14
  even though there's terrorist attacks going on all around her
• 1:07:17
  and she could be have tons of agency and she could be the one
• 1:07:21
  that stops all of that happening.
• 1:07:22
  She's like, I've lost the most wonderful man.
• 1:07:26
  I'm just like, what happened to this?
• 1:07:28
  If you set her up as this such a strong woman, why by the end of
• 1:07:33
  the season is she is she so weak as weaker woman as we've seen in
• 1:07:38
  the new series and then in the last episode forced into a
• 1:07:41
  situation that she never wants it?
• 1:07:44
  I just don't get it. Yeah, So, you know, I totally, I
• 1:07:47
  don't disagree with any of that. I think she's it was a she's a
• 1:07:49
  real wasted opportunity. But I don't, I think in this
• 1:07:51
  episode, I think this had great places to go with that dynamic.
• 1:07:55
  I really liked how spiky she is and I really liked how how
• 1:07:59
  they're dynamic doesn't really like I don't.
• 1:08:01
  I like how they don't immediately click.
• 1:08:04
  And I think there was a lot of interesting places they could
• 1:08:06
  have gone with that. The fact that they then didn't,
• 1:08:09
  it's not the fault of this episode.
• 1:08:10
  Who gets the big companion episode this year?
• 1:08:13
  Millie. I know it that's it's so weird
• 1:08:15
  to me. It's so weird.
• 1:08:17
  It's wonderful. It's my favorite of the year.
• 1:08:19
  You. Know.
• 1:08:21
  But also this whole thing about the Earth blowing up, right?
• 1:08:24
  Yeah, Yeah. Then we just do this in Empire
• 1:08:27
  of Death, the whole universe being destroyed.
• 1:08:30
  Like come on, have a new idea? Yeah, I was like, yeah, I think
• 1:08:37
  the way he hangs off the TARDIS, if my kids treated any of their
• 1:08:40
  stuff like that, I would tell them off.
• 1:08:42
  I felt the TARDIS must be irritated by that because just
• 1:08:45
  like, just fucking calm down. You don't have to.
• 1:08:47
  Just just the buttons. There's the Disney Bunny, the
• 1:08:50
  Eiffel Towers in pieces. I've got a theory about this.
• 1:08:53
  Actually, I think this is not meant to be the I think this is
• 1:08:56
  Legoland winter, and that's why they're all together.
• 1:09:00
  She very quickly gets seduced in Lux as I do like Lux as an
• 1:09:04
  episode, but it's it's thin, but it's fun.
• 1:09:09
  But she very quickly gets beguiled by the dress and do you
• 1:09:13
  know what I mean? All that get me home.
• 1:09:15
  It just goes in a minute, don't it?
• 1:09:16
  Because they have to get on with a story.
• 1:09:18
  And that's the trouble. It was the trouble with Tegan as
• 1:09:20
  well is you can't have a character in an adventure series
• 1:09:23
  that takes place in different times and places go in I want to
• 1:09:26
  leave every week. No, that's true.
• 1:09:30
  I don't. I think it's an interesting,
• 1:09:31
  it's an interesting idea, but it's weird the amount of things
• 1:09:33
  that they repeat. And what I did think was
• 1:09:35
  interesting as well was the obviously come the end of it,
• 1:09:41
  when they regenerated him, I do, I keep, I go, I go backwards and
• 1:09:45
  forwards about how I feel about the Billy.
• 1:09:47
  Obviously I don't like that it's Billy Piper.
• 1:09:49
  That's I felt that's just that just seems like such a weird
• 1:09:51
  misstep. Even even my son, my son and I
• 1:09:54
  went to see it in the cinema together and even even he at the
• 1:09:57
  end went what the fuck? You know what got the best
• 1:10:01
  reaction in the Reality War? It might.
• 1:10:03
  Gotta be it's gotta be. Jodie hasn't.
• 1:10:04
  It it was Jodie, the cinema erupted.
• 1:10:07
  People were so happy. Do you know why?
• 1:10:08
  Because they were like, my God, the Doctor's back.
• 1:10:11
  She's fucking, she's so good though.
• 1:10:13
  She's, she's just like. Even she was saying, oh, you're
• 1:10:16
  so beautiful. Yeah.
• 1:10:18
  I was like, stop it, Russell, Alright, We know he's a pretty
• 1:10:21
  man. We know you've looked at his
• 1:10:23
  Instagram with him in his pants in the gym.
• 1:10:25
  We know. Yeah, we know.
• 1:10:27
  There's a reason that he was in his pants in the giggle.
• 1:10:30
  I mean, I've always said, you know, Doctor Who's that is worse
• 1:10:32
  when straight men are show running it, you know.
• 1:10:35
  But I'm starting to wonder now. Yeah, it's weird, but so it's
• 1:10:41
  weird though, isn't it? Because the the amount of the
• 1:10:44
  amount of mistakes that they repeat, I think from the end of
• 1:10:47
  from the end of the 80s even too, because I'm assuming the
• 1:10:50
  reason they didn't want to have just the open regeneration and
• 1:10:52
  no no face appear is because then people would go whether
• 1:10:56
  that is a good full stop, we can cancel it now or we can just
• 1:10:59
  stop making it, or we can it can take a break.
• 1:11:01
  But by putting Billie Piper on the end of it, that didn't feel
• 1:11:03
  like any further, any more of a progression nobody's got.
• 1:11:06
  Well, it also means as well as she's not the doctor.
• 1:11:08
  Rob Schumer said it in this month.
• 1:11:10
  'S yes, so seen the if she's. Not the doctor, then.
• 1:11:13
  We can't do the wilderness #2 because we don't have a doctor.
• 1:11:17
  Yeah, no, it's, it's such a strange thing, isn't it?
• 1:11:19
  Because we, we don't, we've got no fucking idea.
• 1:11:22
  I mean, I'm sure they can write plenty of stuff about about
• 1:11:26
  Shooty's dachshund, but they'd struggle for time with with him
• 1:11:29
  and Belinda because they're kind of not supposed to have been
• 1:11:32
  around. Even the comics.
• 1:11:33
  I'm always like, you know, the the little bits I've read.
• 1:11:36
  But just like, you know, it is the same that she's just like,
• 1:11:38
  get me home. But like I say, I don't think
• 1:11:41
  the fact that it's sorry. Well, Una McCormack and James
• 1:11:44
  Goss in Robot Revolution and Lux Normalizations do a sterling job
• 1:11:52
  of making Belinda into a rounded character with a background and
• 1:11:57
  with hopes and wishes and you know what I mean?
• 1:12:00
  Like, like, like interesting things that happened in her past
• 1:12:03
  and really vivid view of what's happening now with the doctor
• 1:12:10
  that just isn't in the scripts at all.
• 1:12:13
  It's all sort of internal monologue.
• 1:12:15
  And they do such a great job of it.
• 1:12:16
  And I'm just like, maybe maybe Russell's had his time, you
• 1:12:21
  know? And I, I RTD 1 is my favorite
• 1:12:23
  period of Doctor whoever. This is why I'm so angry by this
• 1:12:26
  stuff, it's because I don't think that's ever topped in
• 1:12:30
  terms of consistent quality of characterization as
• 1:12:32
  storytelling. RTD one is is gold standard for
• 1:12:36
  me. God tier, maybe he just
• 1:12:40
  shouldn't have come back. Maybe, maybe somebody else
• 1:12:43
  should have had a go. I think I've talked before about
• 1:12:46
  the fact that I, I think we're probably, I, I would compare
• 1:12:50
  this era to the McCoy era, partly because go on well for a
• 1:12:55
  number of reasons. But think about the, you know,
• 1:12:57
  people like say Dylan Reece, for example, who you know would
• 1:13:01
  would assume the. Dylan Reece, if he is you
• 1:13:03
  comparing this sort of McCoy. Era Oh, I've had this
• 1:13:06
  conversation with him. Reaching the screen and strangle
• 1:13:10
  you. You know what is I, I think I've
• 1:13:12
  said this. I think I've had this
• 1:13:13
  conversation with him, but actually have I?
• 1:13:14
  Because I might just be making up a don't.
• 1:13:16
  Have it in person, all right? I've seen him get very angry in
• 1:13:21
  a restaurant. You know, very quickly he can he
• 1:13:24
  can suddenly turn into a savage animal.
• 1:13:26
  I think what it is though, is that I think about the kids who
• 1:13:29
  grew up watching McCoy because to for our intensive purposes as
• 1:13:32
  watching it as a as a as a single piece of media watching
• 1:13:35
  it all in one one run. McCoy is weird and probably a
• 1:13:39
  bit shit. However, there is, there is some
• 1:13:43
  brilliant stuff to be had in there if you look closely
• 1:13:45
  enough. And I think that we might be in
• 1:13:47
  the bit like kids like my son, kids who are growing it up,
• 1:13:50
  watching it now, the people who are still interested in it.
• 1:13:52
  And they are largely going to be the kids, our fans.
• 1:13:54
  Because like you say, no, it wasn't the big hit that we all
• 1:13:56
  hoped it was going to be when he came back.
• 1:13:58
  But in a few years time, those kids are going to have had to
• 1:14:02
  work really hard on their critical faculties in order to
• 1:14:05
  justify most of the bullshit that happened in this era.
• 1:14:10
  And because they're going to love it.
• 1:14:11
  Like I say, shooty, shooty and Jodie, my son's two favourites.
• 1:14:16
  And I, you know, whether I agree with him or you know, Jodie's
• 1:14:18
  definitely one of mine and I enjoyed well enough this period
• 1:14:22
  of the show. But there are I'm.
• 1:14:24
  Savvy enough to admit, though, as well, that maybe, maybe this
• 1:14:29
  Doctor Who, yeah. Is for that generation now.
• 1:14:35
  And that just isn't for me. Like, you know, I like old,
• 1:14:38
  fussier, slower, ideas driven, classic Doctor Who and that this
• 1:14:44
  sort of pacey, less nuanced, sort of more stylish television.
• 1:14:53
  That's that's for the kids. And that's OK.
• 1:14:55
  Like, I'm still going to come on here and rant about it because I
• 1:14:59
  love talking about Doctor Who. Yeah, I think it's great.
• 1:15:03
  I think your son loved it. Yeah, I think that's, I think
• 1:15:06
  that's one of the things that I don't know how I'd have felt
• 1:15:08
  about if I was watching this on my own.
• 1:15:10
  I don't know how I'd feel. It's very difficult to be too
• 1:15:14
  down on it when I'm sitting with someone who's experiencing the
• 1:15:17
  show for the first time. And this, it's becoming his
• 1:15:19
  thing as well. Like he wanted Daleks for his
• 1:15:21
  birthday, you know, mainly because I kept telling him to
• 1:15:26
  fucking leave mine alone. So it's, you know, in a way it's
• 1:15:30
  quite helpful for me because he, he's got his own solid
• 1:15:33
  screwdriver now so he can just leave mine on the fucking shelf,
• 1:15:36
  you know. But it's really exciting, you
• 1:15:39
  know, as his dad to kind of be like to share that with him.
• 1:15:43
  And obviously my little girl as well is kind of starting to to
• 1:15:45
  be interested in the Daleks or whatever.
• 1:15:47
  But, but can I make a big caveat, though?
• 1:15:49
  I'm going to say to you what I said to Fraser Gregory because
• 1:15:53
  he tried to come at me not literally with an opinion about
• 1:15:58
  the celestial toy maker just because his son, just because
• 1:16:01
  his son loves it, that that is a serious critical argument for us
• 1:16:07
  all to love it. And I was like, well, just
• 1:16:10
  because one person, you know, loves something, that doesn't
• 1:16:12
  mean we've all got to say it's glorious now.
• 1:16:14
  Now please, you would accept that at least?
• 1:16:16
  Yeah, of course. But I would argue that, you
• 1:16:19
  know, I think it's a lot about maybe this is too deep and
• 1:16:23
  obviously her opinion for you, Joe, Of course, the.
• 1:16:30
  Oh bit to the right, thank you. Didn't know I could do that the
• 1:16:35
  sort of. Curves.
• 1:16:37
  Yeah, she flex hard enough, I think.
• 1:16:41
  I think obviously giving her opinions aside JK Rowling,
• 1:16:45
  obviously. Oh my God, where are you going?
• 1:16:50
  Obviously the caveat being obviously fuck her and
• 1:16:53
  everything she talks about these days, but the does.
• 1:16:56
  Suggest she's a great writer, are you?
• 1:16:58
  I'm not particularly, no, but what I am going to say is that
• 1:17:01
  the books as they are analysed now, we're never supposed to be
• 1:17:05
  analysed in that much detail. No, she might have tried a bit
• 1:17:09
  harder if. They, well, that's just it,
• 1:17:10
  isn't it? Because you think about all the
• 1:17:12
  things that would come across, come out, come out alongside
• 1:17:14
  those, those shows about those books that all the stuff, you
• 1:17:17
  know, like no one's doing a you know, no one's got the Queen's
• 1:17:20
  Nose podcast going on, you know, in in that much detail,
• 1:17:25
  analysing the potential anti-Semitic tropes of do you
• 1:17:29
  know what I mean? Like I think there's a, there's
• 1:17:31
  a depth to which. Popped into existence now.
• 1:17:34
  I'm not saying that's the thing. I'm not saying that they're not
• 1:17:35
  there, but I'm saying that the the analysis kind of brings up
• 1:17:38
  stuff that you wouldn't necessarily expect for a series
• 1:17:40
  of children's books that went completely unnoticed.
• 1:17:43
  Likewise, it's. Saying that we shouldn't analyse
• 1:17:45
  this stuff, then robot revolution.
• 1:17:47
  No, I'm not saying that at all, because obviously I shall.
• 1:17:48
  Cancel the podcast immediately. Well, I I certainly hoped you
• 1:17:52
  would. I want this to.
• 1:17:53
  Be the last final episode of Hamster a Blood Pen Knife, My
• 1:17:56
  last guest, how do you feel? Finally I've killed it.
• 1:17:59
  That's only, that's all I came for really.
• 1:18:01
  It just was like this is this is it's enough.
• 1:18:03
  Is you've you know you've worked hard and it's time to go out.
• 1:18:06
  I'm so tired, Joe. I bet, I bet you are.
• 1:18:10
  I can't believe. Finish your point please.
• 1:18:13
  Listen, anyone that I've ever worked with or known will know I
• 1:18:17
  have never finished a point. Not once.
• 1:18:19
  Not once. So where was it going though I
• 1:18:22
  can't remember coming about analysing this stuff and JK
• 1:18:24
  Rowling. I don't really know why I needed
• 1:18:27
  to bring her into it to be honest.
• 1:18:28
  You just want her to be contentious, didn't you?
• 1:18:31
  Potentially, I think, I think it's basically.
• 1:18:33
  When you after all. No.
• 1:18:36
  What a fault. But you're the only one.
• 1:18:39
  You're the only one in that three in that list of three
• 1:18:42
  people who knows what both of us look like so.
• 1:18:45
  Very true, Very cool. He's so pretty.
• 1:18:47
  Take a look. He's so pretty.
• 1:18:49
  I will do and then I'll send him a message to let him know that
• 1:18:52
  that's. It's like some random bloke
• 1:18:56
  message tell me I'm really pretty.
• 1:18:59
  Yeah, sorry, sorry. Please continue.
• 1:19:01
  It's all right. I genuinely feel like I've
• 1:19:04
  completely lost the plot of when I was going with that.
• 1:19:05
  I mean, we started the episode floating.
• 1:19:07
  We're ending it floating. I think we the only conclusion
• 1:19:10
  we can draw here is this episode is so awful.
• 1:19:14
  Yeah, we'd rather talk about anything else.
• 1:19:17
  That's true, although that's, you know, that said, I've spent
• 1:19:20
  the entire week wondering if I've ever seen an animal on its
• 1:19:22
  birthday. So really, yeah, it just popped
• 1:19:25
  into my head like Saturday, and I've been thinking about it all
• 1:19:27
  week. Like imagine you're just like
• 1:19:28
  sort of saying aloud to a horse or whatever and it's his
• 1:19:30
  birthday and you neither of you would ever know, but.
• 1:19:33
  Wow, maybe we should see every animal and feel as if it is his
• 1:19:37
  birthday and treat it respectively.
• 1:19:40
  Yeah, I plan to going forward. You know the stray that come,
• 1:19:45
  he's living in my back garden, right?
• 1:19:47
  Yeah. Turned off about two years ago.
• 1:19:49
  Sorry. It's totally off.
• 1:19:50
  Peace now. I hope he doesn't get destroyed
• 1:19:52
  by a robot. You know, that would be really
• 1:19:53
  unfortunate as. Long as he does it off camera.
• 1:19:55
  Makes a comic called Meow. I think that's that's when it's
• 1:19:58
  okay, isn't it? He's called Show me now.
• 1:20:00
  Do you know why? I do, but only because I've I've
• 1:20:04
  I've been listening to your podcast, so I didn't.
• 1:20:06
  You lose that. Yeah, it's called Show Me for
• 1:20:09
  Survival. And he's black like those
• 1:20:11
  hideous animatronic cats in Survival.
• 1:20:14
  And he lives in a tent. I bought him a pink tent and we
• 1:20:17
  put in a little bean bag and A and a blanket and he sleeps in
• 1:20:21
  there and go now I'm going to go see him tomorrow morning when he
• 1:20:23
  comes up for his Krispies to the door in the morning.
• 1:20:26
  I shall give him extra cheese as if it's his birthday.
• 1:20:30
  Well, yeah, exactly. And that's the thing, right?
• 1:20:31
  If he's been coming every day, you probably have seen him on
• 1:20:33
  his birthday. Yeah.
• 1:20:34
  Shammy, he'll be like, what is going on today, all of this
• 1:20:37
  extra gorgonzola. Yeah, you've got to keep doing
• 1:20:40
  it every day for a year, so you've got his birthday at least
• 1:20:42
  once. Money own retail wages, you
• 1:20:45
  know. You could probably sneak a
• 1:20:47
  little bit of cheese off the shelves, Surely.
• 1:20:49
  Probably. I'm not going to admit to
• 1:20:50
  stealing on this podcast. Good grief, I'll.
• 1:20:53
  I'll, I'll tell the when we, when we stop recording, you can
• 1:20:55
  tell me. Listen, Joe, now look, I said I
• 1:20:59
  was just going to try and get to bid at 11.
• 1:21:01
  We still haven't done our three fabulous things.
• 1:21:03
  Now look, I need to. I'm clean with you right now.
• 1:21:07
  Obviously you're going to do 3 fabulous things, but just for
• 1:21:09
  once, break in the format. I'm going to do the three
• 1:21:13
  shittiest things about the robot revolution.
• 1:21:18
  That's. How much I hate this.
• 1:21:19
  I can't think of nice things about it.
• 1:21:21
  Is that genuinely the first time you've ever not done 3 fabulous
• 1:21:23
  things? I think, Oh no, I did it for the
• 1:21:28
  doctor, the widow and the wardrobe as well because I truly
• 1:21:31
  love that one too. Fair enough, I remember nothing
• 1:21:34
  about it. Don't you want to punch that kid
• 1:21:36
  with the specs in the face? So odd.
• 1:21:38
  I genuinely, I don't remember it.
• 1:21:40
  I told him. I probably thought it was
• 1:21:41
  alright at the time and then I've never really thought about
• 1:21:43
  it. Trouble is, there'd be blood all
• 1:21:45
  over the snow, wouldn't there? But, you know, it's just so
• 1:21:47
  annoying, that kid. I think I need to go see a
• 1:21:50
  psychiatrist about this, you know?
• 1:21:52
  It does feel like maybe the problem might be you I.
• 1:21:54
  Did work in a in a nursery for two years.
• 1:21:56
  I'm wondering there's been like lingering consequences.
• 1:21:59
  And did you leave of your own accord or will you let go?
• 1:22:02
  No, I left of my own accord. I I I decided that was enough.
• 1:22:06
  Two years with a load of kids. I mean, they adored me, Don't
• 1:22:09
  get me wrong. I mean, I, I'm, listen to me.
• 1:22:11
  I am a child. I just get down on the floor and
• 1:22:14
  play with them. And it's great fun, you know?
• 1:22:16
  Yeah, kids adore me, but you know, older kids, you know, they
• 1:22:20
  were preschoolers. Older kids that are sort of
• 1:22:22
  seven or eight-year olds. Oh, that's so annoying.
• 1:22:25
  I wish they'd just all go away. Except your son, who's fabulous.
• 1:22:30
  Thanks, yeah I'm inclined to agree.
• 1:22:32
  But also sometimes I wish he was.
• 1:22:33
  He would stop talking so but then that's because he takes
• 1:22:36
  after me. My poor wife is just.
• 1:22:37
  The kids are just going on all the time and I'm just stood
• 1:22:40
  there waiting for them to stop talking so I can tell her
• 1:22:41
  whatever bullshit I'm thinking about.
• 1:22:43
  You don't. Worry, right?
• 1:22:44
  I've cancelled the ticket to the gas chamber.
• 1:22:47
  OK, well, thanks. I appreciate it.
• 1:22:48
  Oh, it's a ticket. It's a ticketed event.
• 1:22:50
  That's right. I think that's the weirdest
• 1:22:52
  thing about it. It can't be selling well.
• 1:22:55
  No. Well, I sort of present it as
• 1:22:57
  the Willy Wonka experience. You know, I think, come in here,
• 1:23:00
  come along. And then they're just in the
• 1:23:02
  shower and yeah, well, the mist emerges.
• 1:23:08
  I don't know what to say. I'm joking.
• 1:23:12
  You got you had to leave the nursery because you've been
• 1:23:14
  putting Zyklon beat on all the stock orders.
• 1:23:16
  It's the darkest running joke on this podcast now, I think.
• 1:23:22
  Come on, what's your #1? Right.
• 1:23:23
  Look, I you're going to disagree with all of these, so I might as
• 1:23:26
  well just tell you the first one.
• 1:23:27
  I've got a sharp. Come on.
• 1:23:29
  No, but my first one is just the the 60s Jetsons style.
• 1:23:32
  It makes sense that someone who was going back to The Who was
• 1:23:35
  setting up a world in that era would be harking back to a time
• 1:23:38
  when men were, you know, the patriarchy was at its its peak
• 1:23:41
  in in the mid 20th century. I think it makes sense and it is
• 1:23:45
  very stupid, but I like it. No, no, no, no, no.
• 1:23:48
  Wish this looked like the Jetsons.
• 1:23:50
  The Jetsons was a fabulous pop art cartoon.
• 1:23:54
  This is just a load of bananas and penises flying about the
• 1:23:56
  place. If you want to see Disney
• 1:23:58
  Jetsons, you would see the new Fantastic Four film that's
• 1:24:00
  basically Disney The Jetsons. It's basically the same thing.
• 1:24:04
  My first. Thing, Joe, my first shit thing
• 1:24:08
  is going to be, oh, I love doing this.
• 1:24:10
  I might have to do it more often.
• 1:24:11
  You know, my first truly dismal thing about the robot revolution
• 1:24:15
  is, of course, bullying to Chandra.
• 1:24:18
  I just think. That's.
• 1:24:20
  So I'll defined in this story I feel as if I don't know her at
• 1:24:25
  all, except she's a grumpy mare that don't want to go and have
• 1:24:28
  fun with me, which is an odd way to start a season.
• 1:24:33
  And Joe, I've seen Farah to Sethi, you know, in Andor
• 1:24:36
  recently, I thought you really loved Star Wars very much, but I
• 1:24:38
  was told that was the Star Wars you got to watch when you don't
• 1:24:41
  like Star Wars. And honestly, it was just great
• 1:24:43
  telly. I didn't give a shit of Star
• 1:24:45
  Wars or not. Now she has a very minor role in
• 1:24:48
  that and does wonderful things with it.
• 1:24:51
  She has a major role in Doctor Who and she hasn't got a fucking
• 1:24:55
  hope in hell. Yeah, I've not seen Andre yet,
• 1:24:58
  but I've got the. It's on my list, but I tried to
• 1:25:02
  visit the. Sorry, no.
• 1:25:04
  Cool I was. Going to say that there's a
• 1:25:06
  there's a set of caves that they filmed in Andor that they use
• 1:25:08
  for Destiny of the Daleks as well, which is what's it called?
• 1:25:12
  Is it Winspit Caves in in in Dorset?
• 1:25:15
  We tried to go when I was on holiday earlier in the year and
• 1:25:18
  it was fucking closed. I was absolutely.
• 1:25:20
  Devastated. Oh, you could have been a
• 1:25:22
  Mavellan. I know I would have loved that.
• 1:25:26
  In fact, no. Your missus should be the
• 1:25:27
  Mavellan. Get us some fabulous silver
• 1:25:29
  dreadlocks. I'll give it I'll I'll see if I
• 1:25:32
  can suggest it for Halloween. What is going on?
• 1:25:35
  This is the bizarreest fancy dress I've ever seen.
• 1:25:38
  Trust. Trust me, darling.
• 1:25:39
  It's, it's normal. It's fine.
• 1:25:41
  But I think, I think at his best, Russell introduces, he
• 1:25:45
  does the best companion introductions.
• 1:25:47
  I think Rose in Rose, Martha and Smith and Jones and Donna, her
• 1:25:52
  reintroduction in Partners in Crime.
• 1:25:54
  He gets better each time. And each time you're just raring
• 1:25:58
  to go. And I just didn't want to go on
• 1:26:01
  the adventure at the end of this.
• 1:26:03
  So for me, Belinda was a massive sticking point.
• 1:26:07
  Yeah, I, I, I see your point. I'm, I'm sad.
• 1:26:09
  I'm sad that that's how you feel.
• 1:26:11
  But for you? For you more than anything else.
• 1:26:15
  Give me a hug. Come here.
• 1:26:16
  I'll try, I'll e-mail you one. I'll send it as an attachment.
• 1:26:23
  You're very tactile, aren't you? Could get your hands off there,
• 1:26:25
  right? What's the second one?
• 1:26:27
  Second one is is Polish. Polish scooping apologies at the
• 1:26:30
  end, boy. OK, fair enough.
• 1:26:34
  I can't. I can't believe.
• 1:26:36
  I can't believe that you've never been tempted to say it as
• 1:26:38
  you've been having a little clean up at the end of a as you
• 1:26:43
  haven't before. It's now it's there.
• 1:26:46
  And you know what? Oh, God, it's a bike.
• 1:26:54
  Oh, God, he's like a fucking fountain.
• 1:26:56
  I mean, it's just horrendous. I mean, Jesus Christ, if you
• 1:27:00
  like that sort of thing, but bloody hell, I'm mopping up for
• 1:27:03
  hours. Yeah, actually, I could probably
• 1:27:05
  do it, but Polish. Polish.
• 1:27:06
  Yeah, exactly. That's the I think that's the
• 1:27:11
  saddest life of any robot ever would be just little tough cum
• 1:27:16
  robot in the corner. Thank God my Mark don't listen
• 1:27:19
  to these anymore. He certainly wouldn't get this
• 1:27:22
  far in. He'd be like, oh, I'm bored now,
• 1:27:25
  you know? Well, my, my second terrible
• 1:27:29
  thing is those stupid fucking robots.
• 1:27:35
  I just don't think the design is great.
• 1:27:37
  I don't think they look dynamic. I think they can't be directed
• 1:27:41
  in an action sequence because they're so slow and clunky.
• 1:27:47
  Yeah, just on every level. I'm like, what are you doing?
• 1:27:49
  I would have gone for something CGI and made them.
• 1:27:54
  Yeah, a bit more like. Do you ever see Battlestar
• 1:27:56
  Galactica The new version? I've never seen any.
• 1:27:58
  Cylons in that and there are machine guns come out and
• 1:28:03
  they're just look absolutely terrifying and I know this is
• 1:28:05
  supposed to be a pot boiler and a bit of fun.
• 1:28:07
  Yeah fine, keep the fun design, but just make them a bit more
• 1:28:11
  plausible as as the rulers of this world than these clunky
• 1:28:16
  Matey's bubble bath toys going about the place.
• 1:28:19
  I just I mean I don't buy the planet at all, but I'm really
• 1:28:23
  just don't by the robots as monsters.
• 1:28:26
  It's a weird thing. There's loads of stuff like
• 1:28:27
  obviously back in the day, you know, 2000 and five 2006,
• 1:28:31
  everything was a toy. And there's so much of these
• 1:28:33
  last couple of seasons that could have been an amazing toy.
• 1:28:35
  But they're just for some reason, like, it's like they're
• 1:28:38
  still designing things to be toys, but they know that they
• 1:28:41
  haven't got that sort of deal. They literally had toys.
• 1:28:45
  Rose was making toys in the Star Beast, but they could have
• 1:28:48
  marketed as toys. Yeah, there's a lot of options.
• 1:28:51
  It mental that we never got a cuddly meat mental.
• 1:28:54
  All those fabulous dooms, do you remember?
• 1:28:56
  Yeah. You know.
• 1:28:58
  Yeah. Wonderful.
• 1:28:59
  Well, come on. What's your last 1 then?
• 1:29:01
  My last one is just that scene at the end where we get that
• 1:29:04
  sense of threat from the Doctor as just kind of like that, that
• 1:29:10
  sort of that danger that we don't get from him all although
• 1:29:13
  or from them all that often that you kind of, you know, that I'm
• 1:29:17
  not going to be so bold as to suggest that is in any way a
• 1:29:20
  heart and a lesque Dr. But that for those first few episodes
• 1:29:23
  where we don't know who the Doctor is and that there's that
• 1:29:25
  sort of that unease and that threat.
• 1:29:26
  And like, who the fuck are you? And that kind of moment where
• 1:29:29
  he's so used to travelling around the universe, having
• 1:29:31
  everybody be so fucking impressed with him.
• 1:29:34
  And he just meets this one person who's just not.
• 1:29:36
  And there's that moment of just in his face of just being like,
• 1:29:39
  I'll fucking show you. But it's just so uncomfortable
• 1:29:42
  and I love it. I just, I think it's just such a
• 1:29:43
  weirdly. He shouldn't succeed though,
• 1:29:45
  should he? No, he shouldn't.
• 1:29:47
  You're absolutely right. But it's just in that, but in
• 1:29:49
  that moment, I think it's just such a it's and it's a sign that
• 1:29:52
  we never get to see of him when he's with Millie because they
• 1:29:55
  fucking love each other so much so that you never see that
• 1:29:58
  tension really. Whereas I think there was it's a
• 1:30:03
  real shame because that doctor could have, I think both of them
• 1:30:06
  could have thrived with a bit more well-being tension, I
• 1:30:09
  think. So again, it promised a lot.
• 1:30:10
  I. See what you're saying now?
• 1:30:11
  Yeah, it promised a lot that I don't think it did deliver on as
• 1:30:14
  much as I enjoyed the season overall.
• 1:30:16
  Generally, there's a lot of stuff that he promised that it
• 1:30:18
  didn't give us. And I think that's for me, I
• 1:30:21
  think that's the best thing about this episode is that that
• 1:30:23
  sort of just that bit towards the end where you're like, this
• 1:30:25
  could really go somewhere. The fact that it didn't is not
• 1:30:27
  the fault of the episode. The.
• 1:30:28
  Trouble with Russell is he just can't not have their companion
• 1:30:32
  impressed by the Doctor because the companion is him, I think.
• 1:30:36
  And when the Doctor is shooting at war, you know, he's so he's
• 1:30:40
  so beguiled. Like, unfortunately, it just
• 1:30:42
  falls away so quickly, doesn't it?
• 1:30:44
  The I'm not impressed by you to the point where, yeah, she is
• 1:30:48
  literally saying, oh, you're so impressive.
• 1:30:52
  Well done for torturing that genocide survivor.
• 1:30:54
  You know, amazing work, Doctor. Yeah.
• 1:30:58
  Baffling. Well you know my last shit thing
• 1:31:00
  is going to be the most vivid guest character of all time.
• 1:31:04
  Sasha 55. I mean, even the performance,
• 1:31:08
  man, I can't even remember what the woman looks like.
• 1:31:11
  She's so boring. Yeah, it takes it would take
• 1:31:16
  her, a writer with the poetry and breadth of characterisation
• 1:31:20
  of Alan Bennett to create a single scene character like
• 1:31:24
  this. Or maybe a 2 scene character
• 1:31:27
  with with the sort of depth and nuance and strength of
• 1:31:31
  relationship with the Doctor to make us feel moved when he
• 1:31:35
  starts blubbing over her death. But unfortunately she just is a
• 1:31:40
  non entity. Well, she's transparent.
• 1:31:43
  There's nothing to her. I have no idea why he was so
• 1:31:47
  invested in her with the little time I got.
• 1:31:50
  There's a great scene in. Have you seen the Rebus
• 1:31:53
  operation from the King of Time? Yeah, You know, You know when
• 1:31:56
  Binrod the Heretic gets shot and Garen goes, oh, charming fellow,
• 1:32:01
  the little I saw of him. You know, that's how I feel
• 1:32:04
  about the Sasha 55. Oh well, she was a bit tedious,
• 1:32:09
  wouldn't she? Well, never mind, let's move on
• 1:32:10
  with the story now, shall we? Because by the end of the story,
• 1:32:13
  this woman who's spent six months with or however long it's
• 1:32:16
  been, it's long forgotten as he's dancing his way back to the
• 1:32:20
  TARDIS, being all witty. And don't don't forget, though.
• 1:32:23
  He squeezed all his sadness out in a single tear and then popped
• 1:32:25
  it off to the that's. How we do feel.
• 1:32:27
  Oh, yes, sorry. Yes, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:32:31
  Now look, Joe, I was willing to be convinced today, but I think
• 1:32:34
  we both knew that that was not going to happen.
• 1:32:37
  No, I don't think I brought my A game.
• 1:32:39
  I feel like I. Now self deprecation stop.
• 1:32:44
  No, no, don't get me wrong, I was excellent, but I don't think
• 1:32:47
  my argument was strong. You was the flow aim was
• 1:32:51
  wonderful. Well, I have to say to you, well
• 1:32:56
  done because I mean, you did at least say 3 or 4 things where in
• 1:33:01
  my head I was going, OK, I can see what he's saying.
• 1:33:06
  Maybe not needed to be executed better, but that's a better
• 1:33:10
  version of this story, what you're seeing, especially that
• 1:33:13
  last scene. I mean, that's a really
• 1:33:15
  interesting point. And that is something that I
• 1:33:17
  could have. I think I think a lot of people
• 1:33:20
  might have seen that because I when people were saying about
• 1:33:22
  the Doctor Belinda stuff, I was going, I just don't get it.
• 1:33:25
  But actually you saying that I kind of can see a potential of
• 1:33:30
  an interesting relationship going forward.
• 1:33:33
  Yeah, yeah, I think there was, there was stuff.
• 1:33:35
  There was stuff to be had, whether, like I say, the fact
• 1:33:38
  that they didn't have it is not necessarily the fault of this
• 1:33:41
  episode on its own. What is the fault of this
• 1:33:43
  episode? Is this fucking tedious?
• 1:33:45
  But you know, like, and I do apologise.
• 1:33:47
  You've just heard me ranting for the last hour and a half about
• 1:33:50
  this nonsense. But the tables will turn now
• 1:33:54
  because now we are going to enter into a four part season 18
• 1:33:59
  story that I considered to be one of the finest classic Doctor
• 1:34:04
  Who stories. And you?
• 1:34:05
  I think he's a load of dog poo, isn't that right?
• 1:34:08
  It's tedious as fuck. Yes.
• 1:34:09
  What's? That what are we talking about?
• 1:34:11
  We're going to be talking about Warriors Gate.
• 1:34:14
  God, I mean artistic direction, fine characterization, great
• 1:34:19
  witty lines, avant-garde visuals.
• 1:34:23
  Yeah, but it makes me go to sleep though, so that's as
• 1:34:26
  maybe. But again, is, is that what you
• 1:34:28
  want? That's the thing.
• 1:34:29
  Is that what you want for a children's tea time or
• 1:34:32
  television? That's a.
• 1:34:33
  Good question. That's well worth exploring in
• 1:34:36
  that episode, yes. Because I would hazard a guess,
• 1:34:38
  and I will, I will bring my son's opinion to that as well,
• 1:34:41
  because I'm curious to know what he thinks.
• 1:34:43
  Having watched, having, having, having had him enjoy this.
• 1:34:46
  I'd be curious to know how he feels about tedious space lines
• 1:34:50
  on a white background. Well, I will say is thank you
• 1:34:52
  because I genuinely thought having to ever go go back and
• 1:34:55
  watch this nonsense again would be truly tedious and actually
• 1:35:00
  I've had a wonderful time. This is the best version of the
• 1:35:02
  robot revolution I will ever watch.
• 1:35:05
  Well, I'm, I'm delighted to be a part of it.
• 1:35:07
  Joe, Thank you very much for having me on.
• 1:35:09
  You are a joy and no wait before you go play Mr. Mad Paddington.
• 1:35:13
  Will you not tell everybody where you are online?
• 1:35:16
  I could do, yeah. So yeah, I'm at Mad Paddington
• 1:35:20
  with all the associated letters after it for on Blue Sky.
• 1:35:24
  That's the only place you can really find me.
• 1:35:26
  And if you're interested in hearing any more of my voice,
• 1:35:28
  I've got a podcast called like Every other called The Pagurist,
• 1:35:33
  which is just plagiarist without an L when I'm reading out Doctor
• 1:35:36
  Who books and talking about them as I go.
• 1:35:39
  And I've just finished doing each of Wasps by Trevor Buxton
• 1:35:42
  Dale and they had a great time with that.
• 1:35:44
  And it is it is very good. And then starting next year,
• 1:35:49
  hopefully I'll be starting on the Scarlet Empress.
• 1:35:52
  So it'll be lovely if you would like to join me for that.
• 1:35:54
  It's. A shame you didn't call it like
• 1:35:57
  every other come, you know, great.
• 1:36:01
  It makes it harder to Google, Although to be fair, I've got
• 1:36:04
  I've got a habit of making podcasts difficult to Google and
• 1:36:07
  every time I've had one they've always been just slightly just
• 1:36:10
  slightly a pain in the ass to to find.
• 1:36:13
  I don't know why I sabotage myself like that.
• 1:36:16
  I've, I've gone hunting over the last six months for new
• 1:36:22
  contributors to Hamster because I've always think it's good to
• 1:36:24
  have new voices in new opinions as well as the, you know, the
• 1:36:28
  old favourites or the weirdos like Fraser Gregory.
• 1:36:32
  But you have been one of my most delightful new finds, you know,
• 1:36:37
  this year. So thank you very much for
• 1:36:40
  lending your time to this fucking nonsense.
• 1:36:44
  And let me just say it until next time where I hope the
• 1:36:50
  flirting will continue. I'm sure it will.
• 1:36:53
  I don't think I'll. Be married.
• 1:36:55
  You know, we may be married by the end of the year.
• 1:36:57
  It's entirely possible I'll next time I'll tell you the story
• 1:37:00
  about how I lost my wedding ring.