Latest / Foul Territory / Ken Rosenthal’s Inside Scoop on Front Office fails + Dipoto speaks + How to save the Starting Pitcher

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Ken Rosenthal’s Inside Scoop on Front Office fails + Dipoto speaks + How to save the Starting Pitcher · Foul Territory

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: It's the Inside Scoop. Happy postseason to you, Ken Rosenthal,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: our FT Senior Insider. We'll get to some playoff matchups,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: but let's start with teams that are saying goodbye for now, Ken.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: And we have a number of quotes that we can
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: run through from different GMs. I wanted to start with
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the Tigers and how you just reported recently with Cody
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Stabenhagen today about some changes they're making to the coaching staff,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: but also the Cody has been writing a lot about
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: the strategy for the Tigers, and it is rubbing some
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: fans the wrong way.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Your thoughts?
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Well, the Tigers certainly have been an interesting team to
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: follow over the last few years because at times they
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: have resisted spending money, though they've done it at other times,
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Frambois Valdez being the latest example. And yet, while they've
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: been leaning on their younger players– Scott Harris, the president
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: of baseball operations, basically acknowledged yesterday that they didn't build
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: enough depth, that he should have brought in some veterans
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: to protect them against injuries and against exposing the younger
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: players to too much. Now, obviously, McGonigal had no problem,
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: but others. And this is a team trying to find
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: its balance, it seems to me. And now they've made
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: three changes so far to their coaching staff. Go back
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: to Joey Cora getting removed as third base coach or
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: leaving as third base coach. And then what we reported
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: this morning, Anthony Sanders and Juan Nieves as well. So
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: this is a team that obviously had a very disappointing season,
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: and they're looking inward a little bit and trying to
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: figure out how to go forward.
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: But Ken, didn't they last year, they said, oh, we
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: don't need to make any big free agent moves because
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: our players will just be a year older. Their offense
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: will automatically be better. And they also said we can't
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: extend Tarek Skubal, but we just signed Frambois Valdez to
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: that huge deal the day before, the day after his
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: arbitration hearing. There's so many contradictions that have happened with
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: the Tigers over there. So this means they're going to
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: be in the running for whoever the best free agents are,
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: because every time it seems like they say one thing,
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: they do the complete opposite.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it means that, AJ. And Frambois
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: Valdez and Skubal, the timing there, yeah, it was weird.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: But at the same time, they knew all along that
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: they weren't going to get Scooble done. They made him,
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: as John Heyman of the New York Post reported, an
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: inferior offer sometime back. Scooble's represented by Scott Boris. He
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: was always going to go to the open market, and
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: that's what he's going to do now. So I don't
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: hold that against them, and I actually thought they were
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: wise to trade him, and they did well with what
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: they got in return, at least on paper. Now, as
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: for the rest of it, Yeah, they have had some
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: different kinds of strategies, and they've shifted in certain respects.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: But that's what you would expect teams to do. Now,
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: the idea of being better this year than you were
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: last year and better the year after that than you
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: were this year because, of course, your younger players are
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: getting older, that is a strategy or a thought, a philosophy,
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: that the Baltimore Orioles had. Their feeling was... We're going
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: to be better in 2024 than we were in 23,
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: 2025 than we were in 24, and so on because
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: our younger players will develop. Well, we say it all
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: the time. Development isn't always linear, and you have these
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: stops and starts with younger players. Now, with the Orioles,
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: they're in that spot right now. And Mike Elias, in
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: talking to reporters yesterday, had to acknowledge that. It's a
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: lesson for all of us all the time. You just
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: can't always expect an upward trajectory.
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: Why not, Ken? Why not?
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: Always.
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: I'm always trying to go up. I'm always trying to
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: go up. Never down. Always up, Ken. Always up.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: We're always trying, AJ, but it doesn't always work out
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: that way, especially in baseball.
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: That's true. All right.
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: So last thing on the Tigers for me. How much
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: of this has to do with the Javi Baez contract?
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: They signed Javi Baez, that huge contract. He has not
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: performed up to that. How much does that have to
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: do with the Tigers saying, we're a little bit scared
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: of these huge free agent contracts?
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: I certainly believe that that was something that has been
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: a strong factor in their thinking. Now, it shouldn't stop
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: you from going forward with others. And listen, they signed Valdez.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: You can't hold that against them. That was a big
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: move for them. We'll see how it works out. But Sure,
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: you get a little gun-shy after something like what happened
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: with Javi Baez. Now, that hasn't been a total disaster.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: He's had his moments. He's contributed as a teammate and
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: actually bounced around the field and done some good things
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: for them. But is he worth what they paid him,
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: the 140? No, of course not. So, sure, that affected
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: their thinking.
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: You brought up the Orioles.
• 4:49
  Speaker 6: Mike Elias has now come out and said maybe his
• 4:51
  Speaker 6: baseball ops department was too small.
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: Is he?
• 4:55
  Speaker 6: To blame for that? Is that a financial thing? Is
• 4:58
  Speaker 6: that a ownership switching type of thing?
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: Who's to blame?
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: Not sure, Eric. And certainly, as president of baseball operations,
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: he can manage up and talk to ownership about what
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: he needs. Now, maybe prior to this, he didn't think
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: he needed a bigger front office staff. And maybe now
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: he's come to that realization and it will be up
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: to ownership to decide whether indeed he wants to make
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: it bigger. And I would think by going public with this,
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: Elias already knows the answer that he's going to get
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: more manpower and personnel in the front office. But at
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: the same time, you wonder why they were in that
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: position in the first place. It's a fair question because ownership,
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: the new ownership led by David Rubenstein has been pretty
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: supportive of what they've done financially. They've spent some money
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: on certainly different things, major league payroll included. So yeah,
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: That is to some degree on Elias, but maybe it
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: was a situation where he was asking ownership and they
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: weren't consenting to that right away. I don't know the answer.
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: Ken, bigger is always better. That's what I've been told.
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: I don't know who thinks that, but bigger is always better.
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: That's just what I've been told over the years.
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: So I don't know.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: You're talking to a short guy saying that, AJ.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it, man.
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: I don't know, Ken.
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: People have told me that before. But how much of this,
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: you kind of brought up the ownership group, right? All
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: we heard was when Rubenstein's group took over is, they're
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: going to just throw money at everything and they're going
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: to spend so much more. And yes, they signed Pete
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: Alonzo and they made some moves, but they've also, you know,
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: kind of been, I don't want to say, I don't
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: want to, I don't want to say cheap on the
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: pitching side, but they haven't really, I mean, I guess
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: they signed Bradish. I know that, but they haven't really
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: gone all in as far as bringing in that number one,
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: true number one starter. Are they to blame for, for
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: this and not spending the way that we were kind
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: of told they were going to?
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: The owner is, The owners to blame? Is that what
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: you're asking?
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: Yes, the Rubenstein group. Because remember when they took over
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: from Angeles, everyone's like, the Orioles are going to be
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: a juggernaut. They're going to go sign everybody. And they
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: kind of have, yes, they've upped it a little bit,
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: but it hasn't gone to the point where people are like, okay,
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: they're a big market club.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: Well, with Corbin Burns, a pitcher they traded for, they
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: did make him a big offer. Now, he didn't want
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: that offer. I believe it was $ 180 million for four years.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: And he went to the Diamondbacks. It was 210 for six.
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: He wanted to go to Arizona. So you can understand that.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: That's a legitimate attempt. They've signed Boz to an extension
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: and Bradish as well, right? So I wouldn't say it's
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: that they haven't spent on pitching in free agency, though
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: that certainly is true. I would say it's been more
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: their inability in trades and free agency, for that matter,
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: I guess, to, again, identify that number one. And even
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: this year, when they went into the season with Rodgers
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: and Bradish at the top of their rotation, and Baz,
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: who they had just acquired, you didn't really feel that
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: was enough. It was still the question we all had.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: It's tough to find number one starters, and they've got
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: some coming that they feel can be at least contributors
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: to the rotation. But I would say if we had
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: Elias on the show right now, we said, hey, what
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: about a number one starter? He would say, again, we
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: want one. We've tried to get one. And only were
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: successful in the trade for Burns, which was a one-year thing.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: So that's a combination, I'm sure. It's ownership and it's
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: Elias perhaps not wanting to step out and spend long-term
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: on a starting pitcher. And I've got to say, and
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: I've said this before, AJ, it's not always the wisest
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: thing to do, to invest long-term in a starter. We've
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: seen that. Now, the problem is when you don't do
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: that and when you take maybe the David Stearns route
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: and just go short-term, that can backfire too. So... I'm
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: not excusing anyone or trying to be an apologist for
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: anyone heading a front office, but these are difficult decisions,
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: and they're tough to get right.
• 9:01
  Speaker 6: Is Kurt Suzuki's vote of confidence that he's gotten from
• 9:05
  Speaker 6: John Mozealek matter? I mean, the news when it came out,
• 9:10
  Speaker 6: does that matter? Because he has not been named the
• 9:14
  Speaker 6: next GM, correct, Mozealek?
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: Correct.
• 9:18
  Speaker 6: So does that matter, or are we considering Kurt Suzuki
• 9:22
  Speaker 6: now a free agent manager out on the market? Because
• 9:25
  Speaker 6: I don't know how these one-year deals work. We know
• 9:28
  Speaker 6: when other contracts expire, they work. But is that a
• 9:31
  Speaker 6: vote of confidence that we're going to see him as
• 9:34
  Speaker 6: the manager of the Angels next year?
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: We don't know. And about, I don't know, two, three
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: weeks ago, I wrote a story with Sam Blung saying
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: that there was a path to Suzuki remaining successful. And
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: it had to do with, yes, interim general manager John Mizaloc,
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: I was giving him a promotion before he's gotten it,
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: it had to do with him endorsing Suzuki and saying
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: he likes Suzuki, which is again what he said yesterday.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: He repeated that. So ultimately, this decision will rest with
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: new ownership. And with a lockout coming, I don't know
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: that the decision will be made anytime soon. They first
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: have to decide on Mazaylock, whether he's going to run
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: baseball operations. And then at that point, Maybe they tell
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: Mazalek we want to go in this direction with the manager,
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: or maybe Mazalek says, no, I want Suzuki. So this
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: could go any number of ways, and it's kind of
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: difficult to predict, but what Mazalek said yesterday was not
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: inconsistent with what he told us a couple of weeks ago,
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: which was, I like him, Kurt Suzuki, as a manager.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: What that means is hard to read because this ownership
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: group is not official yet, and it will not be
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: official most likely until this deal closes, which is supposed
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: to be in January. So what I'm trying to say
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: is they're in limbo.
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: Ken, before we get into the playoffs, because I have
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: a lot of questions for you about this playoffs that
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: are about to start in a little while here, you
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: wrote that if the Brewers and the Rays make the
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: World Series and they play each other, and it won't
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: change the CBA argument, I personally picked the Brewers and
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: the Rays just because I want to see if it'll
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: affect the CBA argument or not, but I don't know
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: how it can't because if you're the players, you just
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: go and say, the Guardians made the playoffs, lowest payroll
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: in baseball. Brewers and the Rays made the World Series,
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: one-on-one the World Series. They have lowest payrolls. It can
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: be done. Owners, what the heck are you talking about?
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: So listen, I'm here for it.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: AJ, that was the point of the column, that it
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: can be done. And what I was saying with regard
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: to nothing changing if one of these teams won the
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: World Series or even got into the World Series is
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: that the owners and the league in their argument will
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: just say hey it doesn't change the past 10 years
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: when only the Royals from 2015 won the World Series
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: and after that it was all top payroll teams it
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: won't change that from the owner's perspective what they'll say
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: is oh we want this to happen more often that's
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: the whole point we want these teams to have a
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: better chance and As I say in the column, and
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: as I've said repeatedly on my show, in print, wherever,
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: revenue disparity is a problem. It does need to be addressed.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: My argument is that this is not a black and
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: white issue. It is not salary cap or nothing. There
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: are ways to help these small market teams and ways
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: to make the sport more balanced, if that's what you're
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: looking for, in terms of economics, in terms of payroll.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: than exist right now. I don't know that anyone would
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: question that. You can penalize the teams at the top more.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: You can incentivize the teams at the bottom more. There
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: are ways to do that that don't necessarily require you
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: having a salary cap when a salary cap, if you
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: continue pushing for it as owners and MLB, will likely
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: result in a longer work stoppage than is necessary.
• 13:00
  Speaker 6: I like seeing Ken's face when he's surprised, and we
• 13:03
  Speaker 6: very rarely can surprise you. But what was your reaction when...
• 13:08
  Speaker 6: Giancarlo Stanton, Joe Musgrove, and Garrett Crochet all got activated
• 13:14
  Speaker 6: to their rosters for this first round of the playoffs.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: And I know you mentioned in the break, Roddy, Roddy
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: Tellez as well. And he belongs on that list. I
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: was surprised.
• 13:26
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: By Musgrove, most of all, because as you guys were
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: talking about, he hasn't pitched in so long, but the
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: Stanton thing is really interesting. He hasn't played since April. Now,
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: He's a threat off the bench, obviously. And if you're
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: in the ninth inning and you're down a run, you
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: want Giancarlo Stanton coming up to face maybe Gary Crochet
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: coming out of the bullpen, that would be a fascinating matchup.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: So clearly the Yankees feel he is capable of at
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: least that, Stanton. And clearly the Red Sox are encouraged
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: by Crochet being able to pitch in relief. That wasn't
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: a shock because we've been hearing about that for a
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: few weeks. But Musgrove, big surprise. Stanton... That in the
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: last few days has seemingly become more of a possibility.
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: It's very interesting to see how these rosters were formed,
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: no doubt about that, Eric.
• 14:16
  Speaker 6: Are some of these series good for baseball? I know
• 14:20
  Speaker 6: you work for Fox and AJ talks about Fox wants
• 14:22
  Speaker 6: the big matchups too, but... The fact that the Yankees
• 14:26
  Speaker 6: and Red Sox have to battle it out in the
• 14:28
  Speaker 6: American League East and then they face each other in
• 14:30
  Speaker 6: the first round, only one will advance. The Braves and
• 14:33
  Speaker 6: Phillies have to. Is that good for baseball that we
• 14:36
  Speaker 6: have these rivalries essentially right away? Or would it be
• 14:40
  Speaker 6: better if the divisions wouldn't play each other and then
• 14:44
  Speaker 6: type of like a receding type of thing?
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: The latter, in my opinion, would be better. And if
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: you're the networks, and by the way, the network's interests
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: kind of align with MLBs. They want the most eyeballs. Ideally,
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: you want the Yankees and Red Sox playing later round,
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: possibly the Braves and Phillies as well. It can't always
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: work out that way. And sometimes it just works the
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: way it is working right now. But the reseeding after
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: the wildcard series, that's something that has been talked about
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: a lot in recent weeks. And that is something that
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: honestly needs to happen. And I don't know that MLB
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: is going to be piggish about it going forward. They
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: have to recognize that what is happening in the American
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: League this year, when you have the three best teams
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: on one side of the bracket, Yankees, Red Sox, and
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: of course the Tampa Bay Rays, who got the bye.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: And then on the other side, you have the Guardians,
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: the Astros, and the White Sox, whose records are simply
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: not as good, not even close to as good. That's
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: not what you want. It's not an ALCS that you're
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: going to want. Ideally, you're going to want an ALCS
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: that you're going to want. The ideal ALCS would be
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: one against two, right? That's Tampa Bay against the Yankees. So,
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: reseeding certainly has to happen.
• 15:56
  Speaker 8: Rays.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: Rays. I said Rays, didn't I?
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: No, you said Yankees. Get that East Coast bias off
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: your head.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: I said Rays against Yankees. AJ, listen.
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: Just listen to what I'm saying. I'm listening, Ken. That's
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: why I know you were wrong. Continue.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: Continue.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Rays are on the East Coast.
• 16:14
  Speaker 7: I know.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: I've lost my train of thought, Scott.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: I can't think anymore.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: West Coast.
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: They're actually on the West Coast.
• 16:20
  Speaker 8: Now you know how I feel.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: Before we go, Kevin, before I go.
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: Go ahead, AJ.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: One more for you.
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: I got a call from Judy Boyd. People don't know
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: Judy Boyd. She's kind of our boss at Fox. She
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: kind of does a lot of the things at Fox.
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: And she called me yesterday and said, hey, I'm sorry.
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: that you have to go to Milwaukee instead of going
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: to LA. And I said, yeah, it's okay, Judy. You know,
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: I like Milwaukee. I'm more of a central kind of guy.
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: And she said, yeah, it's all Ken's fault. He has
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: a West coast bias where he has to go to
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: the nice weather in LA. And that's why you got
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: sent to Milwaukee and possibly Chicago. And I was like,
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: that sounds exactly like something Ken would say. So how
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: did you pull off the fact that you're going to
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: possibly get to stay in LA the entire post season?
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: All right. First of all, there's literally no way Judy
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: Boyd said that literally. Second of all, The sideline reporter
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: is not the person determining the matchup. The sideline reporter
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: is the lowest man or woman on the totem pole.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: So if anything, if there was any influence, it would
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: be exerted by the play-by-play people, and they don't even
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: have that much influence. So this decision was made by
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: Judy and Eric Shanks and Brad Zager, and I'd be
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: happy to go to Milwaukee, AJ. You'd be happy to
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: go to L.A. These are just where the chips fall,
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: and I hope you have a great series.
• 17:35
  Speaker 7: Wow.
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: That was nice.
• 17:38
  Speaker 7: Wow.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: I actually, I think you have to flip it on
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: him where it's like, you know what? I'm going to
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: LA because you are such a Midwest guy and you
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: just have to be out there.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: In the Midwest. Honestly, I just hope Judy is watching.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: I seriously doubt she is, but I hope she just
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: saw that. I do too. Complete fiction. Only one person knows, Ken.
• 17:59
  Speaker 8: You'll be getting a fun phone call.
• 18:02
  Speaker 5: Judy knows.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Judy knows.
• 18:04
  Speaker 5: Well, good.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: I'm glad we finished it on that. Ken, happy postseason
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: to you. Enjoy the beginning of games. We'll catch you
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: later on.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: Sounds good, guys. Thanks.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: All right, that's Ken Rosenthal. That's your Inside Scoop. And
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: there's more of that on Thursday, 1230 Eastern. That's when
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: you'll have Alana and Ken maybe talking about some Game
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: 3s that they'll preview.
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's what he said.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: That's what he said.
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: That's what he said.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: That's what he said.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, so let's keep working through the post-mortem for teams,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: the press conference for Jerry DiPoto and the Seattle Mariners.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: So we have a couple bits of information that we
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: can show. We can show some of the tweet from
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Brady Farkas, which received a lot of attention summarizing what
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: was going on there, and then eventually we'll get to
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: a little bit of sound from Jerry DiPoto.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Here's the facts. They removed their manager, Dan Wilson. The team.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: has made the post season two times in 11 seasons
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: under Jerry DePoto. So DePoto even kind of mentioned how
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: he would understand if he wasn't there, that does not
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: appear to be the case that, you know, he actually
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: will stick with the team. So I'm not going to
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: run through the whole checklist here from what Brady put together,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: but DePoto does not want to get rid of the,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: you know, the pitching staff. And I don't mean just
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: the pitchers, but actually like the, the pitching program, the
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: pitching coaches, the whole thing, right. He's going to hang
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: on to most of, His starters, although he might trade
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: one or two. I mean, they haven't locked these guys
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: up long term.
• 19:38
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Logan Gilbert.
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: One of them's got to go because Kate Anderson's there now.
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: So they're going to have to at least move one
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: to get him there.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: And they've got one or two more in the pipe.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: In the pipeline that are coming through that are going
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: to be pretty good for this team so you know
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: they're kind of going through this period where they had
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: a top three farm system over the last year or
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: so so it's like you want to give them credit
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: for that but you're looking at the last go around
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: and you're like all right i just had a run
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: of over a decade with this gm do i feel
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: satisfied He said they'll go outside the new organization for
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: the manager, so that's some news.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: They're not going to go within like they did last time.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: What else, AJ?
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, Damian also signed Emerson to a long-term deal.
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: He ended up in AAA, right? So they made some
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: mistakes there. Would you say Julio Rodriguez was a good
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: signing after the last few years he's had in the
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: amount of money? There's been some mistakes made, but they
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: also were real close to going to the World Series
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: for the first time last year, so Seattle had a
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: strange year because everyone, including me, was like, man, they're
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: going to go to the World Series this year, and
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: they just never materialized.
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: Was it Dan Wilson's fault? I don't know.
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: Was it whoever's fault you want to blame? Cal Raleigh,
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: the WBC, they played too much last year. I don't know,
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: but it was a really strange year in Seattle because
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: even every time they'd win three, four in a row,
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: you're like, here they come, here they come, and then
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: they'd lose four or five in a row, and you're like, oh,
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: they're out of it again. It was one of the
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: strangest years I've ever remembered for a team that was
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: supposed to be really good.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: And I mean, I want to get to Jerry DePoto
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: and then Kraft, you can bounce off what he says.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: They definitely want to be aggressive after the season, like
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: before the lockout begins. So that at least was music
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: to people's ears, but I'll let everyone else judge the
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: minute here that we have.
• 21:26
  Speaker 7: By not parsing out blame, collectively we failed. We failed
• 21:30
  Speaker 7: to play up to our own expectations, which are very high,
• 21:34
  Speaker 7: commensurate with the expectations that were put on us externally.
• 21:38
  Speaker 7: We have a very talented roster. We were seven outs
• 21:42
  Speaker 7: away from a World Series 11 months ago, and we
• 21:45
  Speaker 7: just collectively underperformed in every area. Obviously, the changes that
• 21:49
  Speaker 7: we made with Dan, with the coaching staff, much of
• 21:53
  Speaker 7: it was focused on the position player side. And, you know,
• 21:57
  Speaker 7: that wasn't the only struggle we had. You know, our
• 22:02
  Speaker 7: pitching staff really, especially in the second half, came up
• 22:05
  Speaker 7: short of its typical expectations. And all these things, this
• 22:09
  Speaker 7: is what I'm in charge of, is overseeing all of it.
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: So the blame falls on me first.
• 22:13
  Speaker 7: And, you know, I guess part of my job is
• 22:17
  Speaker 7: making decisions for how to get better and make sure
• 22:20
  Speaker 7: this doesn't happen again.
• 22:21
  Speaker 8: And, you know, it happened.
• 22:23
  Speaker 7: And failure is only failure if you don't learn from it.
• 22:27
  Speaker 7: we're hoping to learn these lessons and move forward in
• 22:30
  Speaker 7: a productive way.
• 22:32
  Speaker 6: Obviously, that's what every GM organization is saying. To me,
• 22:37
  Speaker 6: the proof is in the pudding of how do you improve?
• 22:41
  Speaker 6: I think, in my opinion, Jerry DiPoto tried to improve
• 22:46
  Speaker 6: the team last year off of, what did he say,
• 22:50
  Speaker 6: seven outs from winning a World Series? Or going to
• 22:53
  Speaker 6: the World Series? Like, I think he made the team
• 22:58
  Speaker 6: better this year, and the team ultimately fell short. The
• 23:01
  Speaker 6: players did not play very well. I think as much
• 23:05
  Speaker 6: as I would say a lot of times it's the
• 23:08
  Speaker 6: POBO or GM's issue when they don't build a team
• 23:10
  Speaker 6: that wins together, I feel like this team, the players failed.
• 23:15
  Speaker 6: I think the manager failed to make– it just feels
• 23:19
  Speaker 6: like they said one of his quotes was, Do we
• 23:24
  Speaker 6: need a reset in mentality?
• 23:27
  Speaker 5: Maybe.
• 23:28
  Speaker 6: I think you hear Cal Raleigh's quotes after the season.
• 23:33
  Speaker 6: He's the emotional leader of that team. Does that team
• 23:37
  Speaker 6: need a manager that can also be that emotional leader
• 23:40
  Speaker 6: so that Cal doesn't need to carry that burden? I
• 23:43
  Speaker 6: don't know without being there, but I think DePoto, he's
• 23:46
  Speaker 6: made a team that should be winning on the field.
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: By the way, that doesn't sound like a guy who's
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: worried about losing his job. You don't, to me, at
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: least to me, maybe you disagree with me, Kratz and Scott.
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: But when, you know, he's like, oh, you know, they can,
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: you know, I'm not sure I'm going to be here.
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: But then the things, the way he said things, that's
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: not a guy that's like, man, I'm really worried about
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: my job. That's a guy that's like, I'm going to
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: be back and I've been given free reign. But I'm
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: going to make people think that, you know, I'm worried
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: about my job. That's just my thought on what he's
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: saying because of the certain things that he said and
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: the way he's saying it doesn't. When you hear someone
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: that knows they might be in trouble for their job,
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: they don't talk about things going forward as much. And
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: then you're like, oh, it's only a mistake if you
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: don't learn from it or what failure. Failure is only
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: failure if you don't learn from it. OK, we've all
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: made mistakes. We've all failed at certain things. But yeah,
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: but if I don't fix things quickly, I could lose
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: my job as a player.
• 24:38
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: Am I wrong, Krauts? Or am I right in this?
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: I mean, if someone said, hey, if you don't get
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: a hit in this at bat, you're losing your job.
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: Guess what?
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: I ain't worried about failure. There's no learning from it.
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: I need to get a hit in that at bat.
• 24:50
  Speaker 6: And that is kind of like what you just said
• 24:53
  Speaker 6: sums up what I feel like when I watch this
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: organization being run, when I see certain players get off
• 25:00
  Speaker 6: to slow starts, certain players, you know, not having, I
• 25:04
  Speaker 6: don't know, something about the Mariners. And obviously I'm thousands
• 25:07
  Speaker 6: of miles away and I don't see them, watch them
• 25:09
  Speaker 6: on a daily basis, but it seems like that Just
• 25:13
  Speaker 6: lack of urgency, like I hear AJ asking for maybe,
• 25:18
  Speaker 6: or at least trying to hear from the GM, from
• 25:22
  Speaker 6: the players when they're out there on the field. That urgency,
• 25:26
  Speaker 6: somebody needs to be kind of kicked in the butt.
• 25:29
  Speaker 6: And I think the firing of Bobby Magallanes in like
• 25:33
  Speaker 6: halfway through the season or in July, whenever they did,
• 25:36
  Speaker 6: he wasn't a guy. Like, to me, I think there's a,
• 25:40
  Speaker 6: Jim Bowden said it, you know, something where, hey, maybe
• 25:43
  Speaker 6: they hung on to Dan Wilson too long in a
• 25:45
  Speaker 6: season where they definitely made a better roster. But when
• 25:49
  Speaker 6: you hire a legend from the organization, it's tougher to
• 25:52
  Speaker 6: get rid of them in spots where a lot of
• 25:55
  Speaker 6: GMs would get rid of somebody. So, to me, it's
• 25:58
  Speaker 6: almost like if he wants to bring people in, if
• 26:00
  Speaker 6: he wants to bring in a manager, it has to
• 26:02
  Speaker 6: be outside of the Scott Service, Manny Tired Act of, like,
• 26:08
  Speaker 6: dan wilson like train of like hey we're all here
• 26:12
  Speaker 6: we're gonna get this done like maybe a little more
• 26:15
  Speaker 6: fire and i think these guys will get behind that.
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: True but also let me ask you this when you
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: said that you need a little bit more whatever you
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: want to say does this go back to the 54
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: comment he made remember i'm serious like i i mean
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: i hate to keep bringing that up with the mariners
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: we always bring that up kind of as a joke
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: but Seriously, when you're the GM and you say, well,
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: if we just win 54%, that over the long haul
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: gives us the best opportunity to actually win the World Series.
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: Instead of saying, yeah, we're trying to win every game,
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: we're trying to win the World Series every year. It's like, oh, well,
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: if we do our job and we win 54%, then
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: we'll have a chance, fans.
• 26:51
  Speaker 6: You not only hire the people, but you set a
• 26:54
  Speaker 6: tone for an organization. You set that tone from the
• 26:57
  Speaker 6: top down. And I couldn't agree with you more, AJ.
• 27:00
  Speaker 6: As much as we joke about it, when you say
• 27:02
  Speaker 6: something like that, Everybody may know that already. You can't,
• 27:07
  Speaker 6: to me, you've got to set a tone of, I
• 27:09
  Speaker 6: want to keep guys on their toes.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: I'm comfortable, but you know what?
• 27:12
  Speaker 6: I'm not going to act comfortable because I want to
• 27:14
  Speaker 6: make sure every one of these guys knows we'll get
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: somebody else in here to get the job done. You've
• 27:20
  Speaker 6: got to be able to push on the throttle just
• 27:22
  Speaker 6: like you've got to be able to hit crews sometimes.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you said our culture needs to reset. Well,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: that's got to come from the guy who's running the
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: front office.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: That's your job these days.
• 27:29
  Speaker 7: Usually, isn't the first thing?
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: You've got to be able to do that.
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: Isn't the first thing when a new GM comes in,
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: they say, I've got to change the culture? When they hire–
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: I'm going to use college football as an example because
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: they have GMs, but they're more NIL-based. But when a
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: new college football coach comes in and they've been on
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: a team that's losing, the first thing they say is,
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: we've got to change the culture to where we believe
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: we're going to win. The same thing goes for– and
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: everyone can look at the manager or the NFL coach
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: a little bit. But in baseball, the GM really– GM
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: or president of baseball– really owns and runs the team
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: day to day a little bit more than the manager,
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: the whole organization. So for me, it's got to start
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: with you. Like if you're Jerry DePoto or whoever the,
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: like whoever the leader of these organizations, it has to
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: start with you. You want to change the culture? You
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: got to look yourself in the mirror and say, all right, well,
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: what do I need to change first if I'm staying
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: here and then go from there?
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: 11 years to build the culture. So that's definitely a thing.
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: They've had success. They've had some successes. Let's not get,
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: I mean, they have had some successes there.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: No doubt last year was a big success for how
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: deep they got into the playoffs.
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: Crassie, just because the website says the tickets are sold
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: out doesn't mean you can't go see the Brewers in Milwaukee,
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: see the Dodgers in L.A., see the Rays in Tampa Bay.
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: You can go to SeatGeek and find the best seat available.
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: Pick wherever you want to sit and buy one. There's
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: no bad seats in Milwaukee because the stadium is right
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: on top of the field. It feels like you're in
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: the grass. LA, just don't get a seat near the speakers.
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: But you can find out where the best seats in
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: each stadium are on SeatGeek. And of course, I have
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: a code for you guys. You can use code TERRITORY10
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: for 10% off your next set of tickets at SeatGeek.
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: That's 10% off any tickets with promo code TERRITORY10. Make
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: sure you click the link in the description to download
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: the app and have the code automatically added to your
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: account so you can use it later.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: And you know what?
• 29:26
  Speaker 6: If your team's not in the playoffs, it's no big
• 29:28
  Speaker 6: deal because SeatGeek's got you for tickets for NFL, for concerts,
• 29:33
  Speaker 6: anything that you want.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: All right, we got a couple minutes while the people
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: watching on TV are in their commercial break. this jeff
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: wilson tweet about rangers president of baseball operations chris young
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: addressing 2027 quote as we move forward it's going to
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: be very important in terms of our goals to really
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: address the makeup of the team in terms of health
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: reliability and dependability aj to me this is actually striking
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: a chord for fans that are in New York and
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: have heard about the downside scenarios and all this stuff
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: with the Mets who just ignored bringing on players that
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: are not dependable and durable.
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: No, no, really? No.
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: You think, you think Scott, you think that's what they
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: were talking about? I mean, didn't David Stern say that
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: when he said he took the water bottle and the
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: upside down cap didn't float in the water the right
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: way and that he needed to put a cap on
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: the downside or, I don't even know what he was
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: talking about, but yeah, you need guys that the best avail,
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: the best ability is availability and you need guys that
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: can play every day, playing a Braves guys play every day.
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: Teams that have guys that play every day.
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: They're usually pretty good because those guys are pretty good players.
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: That's why they're in the lineup every day.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: There's a rate stat obsession, Kratz, which for some of it,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: it makes sense, but like, There is a basic stat of,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: like AJ's referring to, does the dude post? Does he play? Otherwise,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: the rate's going to be 50% of games is what
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: he's putting up, right?
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: And that's the thing. And then who is backing that
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: person up?
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: Actually, randomly, a team that comes to mind here, the
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Cleveland Guardians, I think, have done a nice job of
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: being able to play the attrition battle, especially on the
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: pitching side. Consistently, the last couple of years, they've been
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: able to fight back and go from crappy first half
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: to better than most second half and chase teams down.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: There's something to that in my mind.
• 31:34
  Speaker 6: They're an example of you can play with the whole
• 31:37
  Speaker 6: 26-man roster because they don't have, besides Jose Ramirez, they
• 31:42
  Speaker 6: don't have that elite star. So you're going to need
• 31:47
  Speaker 6: a full 26-man roster. I think so many teams are like, well.
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: You know what?
• 31:50
  Speaker 6: If we get 26 one-war players.
• 31:54
  Speaker 6: We'll definitely be able to do good here. I think
• 31:57
  Speaker 6: that's where the Guardians do well.
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: I think that's.
• 32:01
  Speaker 6: Where the Rays have done well, the Brewers have done well.
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: That's not necessarily how every team needs to be built.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: We're excited to have Tyler Kepner from The Athletic joining
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: us again on Foul Territory.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Tyler, great to have you. Loved the article.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer's purpose pitch for MLB saved
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: the starter. So to bring everyone in here, we'll get
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: to Verlander and Scherzer, but let's get to the actual
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: meat of what this article tries to change about the
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: game going forward. Not that, I mean, MLB is going
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: to make those changes, but I'm sure there's people from
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: the league reading this. So can you set the scene
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: for us and how you doing?
• 32:44
  Speaker 8: Good, guys. How are you?
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: Good, good.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Happy postseason.
• 32:48
  Speaker 8: Yeah, no, it's great.
• 32:49
  Speaker 9: I really wanted to get a chance to talk with
• 32:52
  Speaker 9: Justin and Max before the season ended and before Justin's
• 32:56
  Speaker 9: career ended, and maybe Max's, we don't know. Because they're
• 33:00
  Speaker 9: kind of, it seems like they're going to be the
• 33:02
  Speaker 9: last of their breed, right? I mean, maybe Garrett Cole
• 33:06
  Speaker 9: or Chris Sale can get up to 200 wins, and
• 33:09
  Speaker 9: they certainly have that same kind of mentality.
• 33:12
  Speaker 8: You know, Zach Wheeler, too.
• 33:13
  Speaker 9: But I think Verlander and Scherzer, with all that they've accomplished,
• 33:17
  Speaker 9: you know, 200-plus wins, 3,000 strikeouts, multiple no-hitters, Cy Young's championships,
• 33:23
  Speaker 9: they're the only two players who've done those things in
• 33:26
  Speaker 9: baseball history. So they're really special players, and I wanted
• 33:29
  Speaker 9: to get their thoughts on their craft before they left,
• 33:31
  Speaker 9: and they had some thoughts. They really want the starting
• 33:34
  Speaker 9: pitcher to continue in the way that we know it
• 33:40
  Speaker 9: and not down the path that it's going.
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: Tyler, I mean, I know these guys, both these guys personally.
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: But isn't this what makes baseball? Isn't this what has
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: made baseball so great for so long is the starting
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: pitching matchup. And that's why we just had Monster Territory
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: and Pinstripe Territory guys in, and Robbie and Derek. And
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: we were talking about this, and I said, the one
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: thing about the Yankees-Red Sox matchup in these three games
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: is you know the starting pitchers. You look at the
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: paper and you say, man, I am so excited to
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: see Toley versus Schlittler, right, and then Freed, versus gray
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: and then you know the last day ranger suarez versus
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: garrett cole like i i want to tune in to
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: see how they do right not yankees or not astros
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: white socks where it's like opener right nothing against hagen
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: smith nothing against aj blue ball but isn't this where
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: baseball has always been kind of meant to be is
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: man i when i open the newspaper i open the
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: mlb app i see verlander versus scherzer i gotta tune
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: in to see that because everything else just falls into
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: place 100%, AJ.
• 34:41
  Speaker 9: That's what differentiates baseball from all the other sports more
• 34:44
  Speaker 9: than anything else, right? If you watch a football game
• 34:47
  Speaker 9: or a basketball game or a hockey game, it's going
• 34:49
  Speaker 9: to be the same players every week, every game, right? Baseball,
• 34:53
  Speaker 9: the most important player, changes every day, and that changes
• 34:56
  Speaker 9: your entire set of expectations. But if we get closer
• 35:01
  Speaker 9: and closer to bullpen games or the starter's only going
• 35:04
  Speaker 9: to go five or four and a third or whatever.
• 35:07
  Speaker 8: It becomes less.
• 35:09
  Speaker 9: special in a way, less unique because, you know, that,
• 35:13
  Speaker 9: that starting pitcher doesn't have the same emphasis as, as
• 35:17
  Speaker 9: he used to. And, and I really hope that, you know,
• 35:20
  Speaker 9: Justin drew up some rules, you know, five, five rules
• 35:23
  Speaker 9: in his mind that you could implement to, to incentivize
• 35:27
  Speaker 9: teams to develop starting pitchers. Because right now they're just
• 35:31
  Speaker 9: incentivized to develop guys who throw hard and put pedal
• 35:36
  Speaker 9: to the metal right away.
• 35:37
  Speaker 8: And they're out of there by five.
• 35:39
  Speaker 6: If you look at baseball, I have both baseball reference
• 35:42
  Speaker 6: pages of both these guys. We've gone away from, since
• 35:47
  Speaker 6: Verlander made his debut in five, Scherzer in eight, we've
• 35:52
  Speaker 6: gone away from throwing as much as these guys did
• 35:54
  Speaker 6: early in their careers, nine years straight of 30-plus starts.
• 36:00
  Speaker 6: but we've gotten more injuries. Do we feel like these
• 36:03
  Speaker 6: guys are outliers in the sense that they're both going
• 36:06
  Speaker 6: to be Hall of Famers and nobody can create Hall
• 36:08
  Speaker 6: of Famers? You can just create out-getters for a certain
• 36:12
  Speaker 6: amount of time period and then we get injuries. If
• 36:15
  Speaker 6: Major League Baseball adopts these rules that Verlander's talking about,
• 36:20
  Speaker 6: does it diminish injuries in the game? Or is baseball
• 36:25
  Speaker 6: afraid of more injuries? Or are they just afraid of
• 36:28
  Speaker 6: the fact that, well, our numbers say this, so we need.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: To do that.
• 36:33
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I think it's right now, it's just that, you know,
• 36:36
  Speaker 9: if you throw harder, you spin it harder, you have
• 36:38
  Speaker 9: a better chance of getting guys out. And that's what the,
• 36:42
  Speaker 9: you know, front offices have figured out. And so I
• 36:45
  Speaker 9: think they'd love to, I mean, just from an economic standpoint, right?
• 36:48
  Speaker 9: If you're paying, if you're going to pay Tarek Skubal
• 36:50
  Speaker 9: like $ 30 million a year, you'd love to get him
• 36:53
  Speaker 9: for the most innings he could give you, right? Like
• 36:55
  Speaker 9: if you could get him for 250 innings, Like Justin
• 36:58
  Speaker 9: pitched in 2011, you're getting more for your money, but
• 37:02
  Speaker 9: you're worried that he's going to get hurt, and so
• 37:05
  Speaker 9: it becomes a take a village kind of approach. I
• 37:07
  Speaker 9: think what we're not going to see anymore is a
• 37:12
  Speaker 9: starter who's sort of a mid-level guy who's going to
• 37:14
  Speaker 9: give you 200 innings. When Verlander broke in in 2005,
• 37:18
  Speaker 9: there were 50 starters who went 200 innings. This year,
• 37:22
  Speaker 9: there's three, and more guys are getting hurt. So I
• 37:26
  Speaker 9: think if you do something like, if you could really
• 37:29
  Speaker 9: reimagine the whole thing and turn the clock back a
• 37:32
  Speaker 9: little bit with some of these rules, and they did
• 37:35
  Speaker 9: turn the clock back with the pitch clock, right? I mean,
• 37:38
  Speaker 9: we've restored the natural pace of the game by implementing
• 37:43
  Speaker 9: those rules. If you can re-engineer the whole starting pitching thing,
• 37:48
  Speaker 9: I think there probably would be less injuries because you
• 37:49
  Speaker 9: wouldn't be asking guys to go max effort all the time.
• 37:54
  Speaker 6: Our team's Our team's going to do it. And will
• 37:56
  Speaker 6: there be a team that, because I remember back, I
• 37:59
  Speaker 6: want to say 12, 15 years ago, I think the
• 38:02
  Speaker 6: Rangers started to implement, hey, you know what? We're going
• 38:04
  Speaker 6: to start throwing more. It was kind of a Nolan
• 38:06
  Speaker 6: Ryan type of thing. Guys will throw along. And that
• 38:09
  Speaker 6: just went out the window real quick. Will teams end
• 38:14
  Speaker 6: up doing it? Because it's all about money. And the
• 38:17
  Speaker 6: biggest loss for every team is the injured list. That
• 38:21
  Speaker 6: is the biggest loss, no matter what they say about
• 38:23
  Speaker 6: COVID or anything, it's the injured list and it's pitchers
• 38:27
  Speaker 6: on the IL.
• 38:30
  Speaker 9: Well, I mean, smart teams always try to stay ahead
• 38:32
  Speaker 9: and they see things that I, you know, that we don't,
• 38:35
  Speaker 9: they see things before anybody else sees, right? So maybe
• 38:37
  Speaker 9: there's some team out there that is going to figure
• 38:40
  Speaker 9: out a way to do that, but they're also picking
• 38:43
  Speaker 9: from an inventory of amateurs who were raised a certain way, right? Like,
• 38:48
  Speaker 9: you know, they're raised, how do you get drafted now
• 38:51
  Speaker 9: with fewer rounds than ever? How do you get a scholarship? Well,
• 38:55
  Speaker 9: there's your measurables, right? It's less about how many outs
• 38:59
  Speaker 9: did I, how good am I at preventing runs? And
• 39:01
  Speaker 9: it's more about what those numbers on my, you know,
• 39:05
  Speaker 9: stat cast or, I mean, track band or edutronic show,
• 39:08
  Speaker 9: because those are the raw ingredients of a pitch.
• 39:12
  Speaker 8: It's not just miles per hour. It's all that other stuff,
• 39:14
  Speaker 8: but it's a lot of it's miles per hour.
• 39:15
  Speaker 9: So That's how you get into the game by being nasty.
• 39:21
  Speaker 9: And I don't know if you can learn another way
• 39:25
  Speaker 9: to still have great stuff, but also pace yourself and
• 39:29
  Speaker 9: have some of the nuance. that the older pitchers had
• 39:32
  Speaker 9: to have because there was an expectation that they were
• 39:35
  Speaker 9: just going to go five. You know, they had to
• 39:37
  Speaker 9: work deep into a game.
• 39:40
  Speaker 6: How are these two going into the Hall of Fame
• 39:42
  Speaker 6: going to change how the Hall of Fame is looks
• 39:46
  Speaker 6: at pitchers. And maybe some would say, well, once DeGrom
• 39:49
  Speaker 6: comes out, then there's that. But neither of them have–
• 39:53
  Speaker 6: Verlander has 266 wins and Scherzer has 225. So is that–
• 40:00
  Speaker 6: is the win stat going to not matter? Because they
• 40:03
  Speaker 6: both have over 3,000 strikeouts. I'm sorry, over 3,500 strikeouts.
• 40:07
  Speaker 5: Right, right.
• 40:09
  Speaker 9: Yeah, well, these guys are no-brainers. I mean, they'll get
• 40:11
  Speaker 9: in with– every vote, unless there's a couple of knuckleheads,
• 40:16
  Speaker 9: you know, they'll, they'll get in as close to unanimous
• 40:18
  Speaker 9: as you can be. So, um, that's not a question. Um,
• 40:22
  Speaker 9: you know, Kershaw will be the same. I think Greinke
• 40:25
  Speaker 9: will get in and it'll be a fairly high percentage too. Um,
• 40:29
  Speaker 9: but it's, once we get past that group, right, then it,
• 40:32
  Speaker 9: then how do we recalculate, I guess, our definitions of greatness,
• 40:38
  Speaker 9: because you're not going to have guys with those big
• 40:41
  Speaker 9: win totals. You'll get some big strikeout totals, but you
• 40:44
  Speaker 9: won't get the big win totals or the big inning totals.
• 40:46
  Speaker 9: And then it's like, well, okay, how do we measure
• 40:50
  Speaker 9: how great this guy really was? You know, putting in
• 40:53
  Speaker 9: starting pitchers with win totals in the low 100s, let's say,
• 40:57
  Speaker 9: but they were really dominant for a short burst. You know,
• 41:00
  Speaker 9: it's a question of how dominant do you have to
• 41:03
  Speaker 9: be for how long if the numbers aren't going to
• 41:06
  Speaker 9: be there? And what is the acceptable workload? And then
• 41:10
  Speaker 9: if you do start putting in guys like that, what
• 41:13
  Speaker 9: about the big, massive pitchers who were awesome but are
• 41:17
  Speaker 9: not in the Hall of Fame? I'm talking guys like
• 41:20
  Speaker 9: Cole Hamels and Cliff Lee and Felix Hernandez and Yohan Santana,
• 41:24
  Speaker 9: even back to Brett Saberhagen and Jimmy Key, like guys who–
• 41:38
  Speaker 9: but maybe they weren't as dominant. It's just going to
• 41:40
  Speaker 9: be strange to see guys with such lesser stats get in,
• 41:43
  Speaker 9: but you can't just, if the game changes to that point,
• 41:46
  Speaker 9: you can't just like not put a pitcher in anymore.
• 41:49
  Speaker 8: You got to adjust with the times.
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: Well, the Hall of Fame always adjusts because there's, you know,
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: 300 meant something, now it doesn't mean anything.
• 41:56
  Speaker 5: You know, it's always changing. It's a popularity contest. We
• 42:00
  Speaker 5: all know that, Tyler.
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: If they liked you, you'll get in. If they don't
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: like you, you won't get in. Ask Barry Bonds, ask
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: Roger Clemens.
• 42:05
  Speaker 5: I mean, what about Steve Carlton?
• 42:07
  Speaker 9: My favorite player of all time. He didn't talk to
• 42:08
  Speaker 9: the media. He got in because he was great.
• 42:10
  Speaker 8: You know, like it.
• 42:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's certain guys that are undeniable, like a
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: Steve Carlton. But then there are guys who, you know,
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: weren't as nice and they weren't first ballot guys because
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: we're going to show you look how tough we are
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: as writers.
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: Go writers. OK, anyways, I'm not sure. I mean, like. Anyways,
• 42:26
  Speaker 5: that's not the point.
• 42:27
  Speaker 9: Dale Murphy and Don Mattingly, nicest guys in the world.
• 42:29
  Speaker 8: They've never gotten in, so I don't know.
• 42:31
  Speaker 5: And I think the writers are wrong for that. I
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: think the writers are absolutely wrong.
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: But if you look at the numbers now, they have
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: now compared to when they played, it'd be different. They'd
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: be first ballot guys now. So it's a completely different argument.
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: But my question is, does MLB care about the arm injuries?
• 42:45
  Speaker 5: Do they really care? They don't care.
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: I feel like they don't care. about the starting pitcher.
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: You know what they care about? We get 162 games in.
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: People want to ooh and ah at the radar gun.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: They ooh, ah.
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: I think they should care because it's a marketable thing. Hey,
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: we have CeCe Sabathia versus Roy Holiday tonight on Saturday
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: night baseball. I know on Fox, when I do my
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: Fox games, I'm like, who do we get for starting pitching? Oh,
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: we get Peyton Tolley versus... Cam Schlittler, I'm like, huh, yeah.
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: I know what my first five innings are going to
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: be talking about. These two starting pitchers, and then I
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: can figure out the rest from there. But then when
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: you get these games where it's like, you know, bullpen
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: versus bullpen, you're like, oh, this is going to be
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: such a slog. Because you don't, you know, so does
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: MLB really care the way they should?
• 43:31
  Speaker 9: Oh, I think the teams care if they've got injuries,
• 43:33
  Speaker 9: you know, on the shelf. But do teams care, does
• 43:35
  Speaker 9: the league care that it's, you know, an opener versus
• 43:38
  Speaker 9: opener in the playoff game?
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 43:41
  Speaker 8: I think they should.
• 43:42
  Speaker 9: Do they, I don't know. I mean, they, they, they,
• 43:45
  Speaker 9: as you say, they, they love to spotlight, you know,
• 43:48
  Speaker 9: how hard a guy throws a hundred and a hundred
• 43:50
  Speaker 9: and this hundred and that, um, you know, and, and,
• 43:53
  Speaker 9: and that only really encourages the, the emphasis on power pitching, which,
• 43:58
  Speaker 9: you know, leads to more injuries if you're not, if
• 44:01
  Speaker 9: you're just, you know, doing the right mechanics and stuff.
• 44:03
  Speaker 9: So I, I don't know the answer to that. I don't,
• 44:05
  Speaker 9: cause it would require, you know, real truth serum. Um,
• 44:09
  Speaker 9: But I do know they like stars. You know, stars
• 44:12
  Speaker 9: are more marketable, and it's hard to market an opener.
• 44:15
  Speaker 9: So I think they should want to have more stars
• 44:18
  Speaker 9: in the game, and stars are starting pitchers.
• 44:20
  Speaker 8: I'm with you, man.
• 44:21
  Speaker 9: Your team in 05, you know, you could go into
• 44:25
  Speaker 9: each game. I mean, that World Series, you know, Clemens Contreras,
• 44:29
  Speaker 9: Burley versus Pettit, you know, Oswald versus Garland. garcia and
• 44:34
  Speaker 9: backy you know those were matchups that you could really
• 44:37
  Speaker 9: look forward to and um i know we're going back
• 44:39
  Speaker 9: 20 years but that was that was fun stuff.
• 44:42
  Speaker 6: Tyler that's one of your superpowers you can you can
• 44:45
  Speaker 6: recite every starting pitcher matchup.
• 44:48
  Speaker 9: Correct yeah going back get out of the 70s 79 to.
• 44:52
  Speaker 6: The 70s okay do you remember yeah 79.
• 44:56
  Speaker 5: Do you remember how many of them are.
• 44:57
  Speaker 8: Openers Yeah, only like two. I mean, Ryan Yarbrough.
• 45:02
  Speaker 9: Well, actually, in that 2020 World Series, it was weird
• 45:04
  Speaker 9: because Glasnow started twice.
• 45:07
  Speaker 8: Well, not Glasnow. What's his name?
• 45:08
  Speaker 9: But Gonsolin started twice, games two and six for LA.
• 45:13
  Speaker 8: It has an opener.
• 45:14
  Speaker 9: And then Yarbrough started game four as an opener. And
• 45:17
  Speaker 9: then we had Mantaply started as an opener. And Ben
• 45:19
  Speaker 9: Kasparias started. So we're starting to see more of them.
• 45:22
  Speaker 9: In fact, that Brave series, Dylan Lee and Tucker Davidson
• 45:25
  Speaker 9: started games. So, you know, we've got a handful of
• 45:29
  Speaker 9: openers now on that, that list in my brain.
• 45:31
  Speaker 8: Um, but they're there.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 45:33
  Speaker 5: So, so you're able to, you're able to calculate those.
• 45:37
  Speaker 9: I can still, it's not so much calculate, but I
• 45:40
  Speaker 9: can just tell you who started every game.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 45:42
  Speaker 8: Going back 47.
• 45:43
  Speaker 6: Years, whatever it is, all in those, all in those years, you're,
• 45:46
  Speaker 6: you're a savant in that.
• 45:48
  Speaker 9: And I could tell you who won each game too,
• 45:51
  Speaker 9: like not necessarily the winning pitcher, although I could probably
• 45:53
  Speaker 9: come pretty close. But I can tell you how the
• 45:55
  Speaker 9: games went, the pattern of the games in each World Series.
• 45:58
  Speaker 5: I can tell you who won all those 2005 games.
• 46:00
  Speaker 8: That's right.
• 46:02
  Speaker 5: Not the Astros.
• 46:04
  Speaker 8: Who got the big double off Roy Oswald there.
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: Number 12. I think he did.
• 46:09
  Speaker 8: Right center field. That's right.
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: It would have been a homer if they didn't have
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: the hill out there.
• 46:13
  Speaker 8: Although you did, man.
• 46:14
  Speaker 9: You did really get one over on the only player
• 46:18
  Speaker 9: from my college in the four years I was at
• 46:20
  Speaker 9: Vanderbilt to make the big league was Josh Paul. And
• 46:23
  Speaker 9: you had to go and do what you did to
• 46:25
  Speaker 9: Josh with help from Doug Eddings.
• 46:28
  Speaker 8: I love Josh.
• 46:28
  Speaker 5: I love Doug Eddings. I love Josh.
• 46:31
  Speaker 8: I bet you do.
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: We were teammates. We were teammates. It's not about me, though.
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: It's about you.
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: It's about you, Tyler, and your weird ability to name
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: starting pitchers.
• 46:39
  Speaker 8: Yeah, man. Give me any game. Any game, I'll give
• 46:42
  Speaker 8: it to you.
• 46:43
  Speaker 6: My question is, is this not going to change until
• 46:47
  Speaker 6: it actually has a dollar sign connected to it? Because
• 46:51
  Speaker 6: right now, you can just keep running out the next
• 46:53
  Speaker 6: AAA pitcher who throws, like you said, 100-whatever for an
• 46:57
  Speaker 6: inning until he blows out 70 times in a season
• 47:01
  Speaker 6: to start a game, whatever it is. So will that
• 47:04
  Speaker 6: rule or the changes have to coincide with dollar bills directly?
• 47:09
  Speaker 6: Because wins and losses, we know that there's 15 teams possibly,
• 47:13
  Speaker 6: maybe even only 10 teams that could care less in
• 47:16
  Speaker 6: some seasons about wins and losses.
• 47:19
  Speaker 9: Well, I think part of what you're talking about is
• 47:23
  Speaker 9: And part of the reason it probably won't happen is
• 47:25
  Speaker 9: because if you get a whole big inventory of starting pitchers, then,
• 47:31
  Speaker 9: you know, starting pitchers tend to command more money. And
• 47:34
  Speaker 9: these guys, you can cycle back and up and down
• 47:36
  Speaker 9: through the minors, make the minimum. I mean, tell you this, guys,
• 47:39
  Speaker 9: like mid-60s, like 60s, I did this recently, I think
• 47:43
  Speaker 9: the 65 Dodgers, okay, had, 66 Dodgers had about 15
• 47:48
  Speaker 9: pitchers to get through the 162 game schedule. 1995, But 1996,
• 47:53
  Speaker 9: 30 years later, about 15, 16 pitchers. So over that
• 47:56
  Speaker 9: 30 year span, you know, it takes about the same
• 47:58
  Speaker 9: number of guys to get through all those same number
• 48:01
  Speaker 9: of innings. And last year, the Dodgers had 40 pitchers.
• 48:04
  Speaker 9: So you just have so many guys who go up
• 48:06
  Speaker 9: and down, up and down, up and down or position
• 48:08
  Speaker 9: players who who suck up a few innings and lob
• 48:11
  Speaker 9: the ball and everything. And that's the same number of
• 48:13
  Speaker 9: innings to cover. So what are all those guys? They're
• 48:16
  Speaker 9: not making money. They're making the minimum. So you're sending
• 48:19
  Speaker 9: them up and down, up and down. I think that
• 48:21
  Speaker 9: kind of helps control cost for teams if you really
• 48:24
  Speaker 9: want to get down to it rather than having to
• 48:25
  Speaker 9: pay for, you know, a starter who's going to go
• 48:27
  Speaker 9: 10 and 10 and give you 200 innings with a
• 48:32
  Speaker 9: four ERA. Just fill in bullpen games or guys from
• 48:37
  Speaker 9: up and down or waiver claims are not going to
• 48:39
  Speaker 9: cost much. I hate to say it, but it is
• 48:41
  Speaker 9: more cost efficient for teams to get through the schedule
• 48:43
  Speaker 9: that way.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, teams still do, but they used to do it
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: a lot. Holding back young relievers from saving games because
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: they didn't want to pay them in arbitration.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: That was a thing.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: I used to follow who was being held back very closely.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: Even when I worked at the league, I just couldn't
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: talk about it. But yeah, it was very interesting.
• 49:03
  Speaker 9: Yeah, well now it's like the saves aren't even, you know, like,
• 49:07
  Speaker 9: Do you even look at the raw save numbers as
• 49:10
  Speaker 9: far as who's the best reliever? Because they'll bring in
• 49:12
  Speaker 9: guys in other leverage situations. I think they've figured that out.
• 49:15
  Speaker 9: And I think that's smart, actually. You know, like bringing
• 49:17
  Speaker 9: in your best reliever to get the biggest outs. rather
• 49:20
  Speaker 9: than have him sitting there. I remember that Zach Britton game.
• 49:22
  Speaker 9: I remember being the one asking the questions after the
• 49:24
  Speaker 9: game in the playoffs in the wildcard game in Toronto.
• 49:27
  Speaker 8: I was like, Buck, what were you.
• 49:29
  Speaker 9: How can you lose this winner-take-all game without getting Britton
• 49:32
  Speaker 9: in there?
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: Don't bring it up.
• 49:34
  Speaker 8: That's why I like that.
• 49:35
  Speaker 5: He still has hard feelings, Tyler, when you talk to Buck.
• 49:37
  Speaker 5: Don't bring it up.
• 49:39
  Speaker 8: I know.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: Andrew Miller was the example, though, for that, too. So
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: we got to run.
• 49:43
  Speaker 9: And he made his money. He made his money as
• 49:46
  Speaker 9: a leverage guy. And then it was like, well, you
• 49:47
  Speaker 9: can make money either way. You don't need a big
• 49:49
  Speaker 9: save number.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: Exactly right. The free agent market paid for it. Well, Tyler,
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: good stuff. I encourage everyone to check out the article.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: There's a lot more there. And happy postseason to you.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: We'll catch you later on this October.
• 50:01
  Speaker 8: Yeah, always enjoy it, fellas.
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: Thanks.