Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 106: What's Really Underneath Sexual Acting Out? With Sammy Uyama

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106: What's Really Underneath Sexual Acting Out? With Sammy Uyama · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

• 0:00
  Hey everybody, so I got a question for you.
• 0:02
  So what if acting out is not really about sex, but about
• 0:07
  trying to feel connected, wanted, alive or comforted?
• 0:11
  How does that feel to you? Let's talk about that today.
• 0:16
  Welcome to be on the Facade. I'm your host, Luke Gordon,
• 0:19
  men's program director at Choose Recovery Services and founder of
• 0:22
  the Blueprint Institute. For years, I've had the
• 0:24
  privilege of working with men who are tired of living behind
• 0:27
  masks, tired of repeating the same patterns, and ready for
• 0:30
  something more. It's work that's deeply personal
• 0:33
  to me because my own recovery journey has taught me first hand
• 0:36
  both the challenges and the rewards of pursuing
• 0:38
  authenticity. This podcast exists to help men
• 0:42
  build lives rooted in authenticity, integrity, and
• 0:44
  meaningful connection. Together, we're going to explore
• 0:47
  recovery, relationships, emotional health and personal
• 0:50
  growth, and the challenges that keep us from becoming who we
• 0:53
  truly want to be. Through honest conversations,
• 0:56
  practical tools and real world insights, and occasional stories
• 0:59
  from my own journey, my goal is to help you better understand
• 1:02
  yourself, strengthen your relationships, and create
• 1:04
  lasting change. So whether this is your first
• 1:07
  episode or you've been with us from the very beginning, you're
• 1:10
  joining a community of men committed to doing the deeper
• 1:12
  work. So welcome to Beyond the Sod.
• 1:14
  Let's get started. All right everybody, I want to
• 1:20
  introduce you to Sammy. Sammy's here with me.
• 1:23
  He's got his topic of choice today and I'm loving it.
• 1:25
  Sammy's our one of our newest coaches at Choose Recovery
• 1:28
  Services. He's been supporting men through
• 1:30
  their recovery for the last 10 years with another organizations
• 1:34
  and now he's with here with us at Choose Recovery Services and
• 1:37
  also Blueprint Institute. So very excited to have you here
• 1:40
  Sammy. I appreciate the level of
• 1:44
  ferocity you have when it comes to helping guys in the journey,
• 1:46
  your ability to be able to call people out directly and also
• 1:49
  make them feel loved and valued. So glad that you're here.
• 1:51
  Tell us anything you want us to know about you before we dive
• 1:54
  into the subject. And thanks, Luke.
• 1:56
  And. Just First off, it's a pleasure.
• 1:58
  To be here, it's really an honor I get.
• 1:59
  Some other stuff about me personally.
• 2:01
  I've been married for 17 years. My wife is Korean, so it's it's
• 2:04
  been a unique experience having a intercultural international
• 2:07
  marriage and. We've got 4 kids.
• 2:09
  And outside of work, that's basically where I spend my time.
• 2:13
  You got 4 kids and international stuff.
• 2:16
  That's sounds like a busy life. Yeah, it's fun life.
• 2:21
  Glad you're here. Sammy's actually in the Helper
• 2:23
  Hill group. He helps Solana facilitate that
• 2:26
  group and he's doing other thing for us.
• 2:27
  About to start one of our men's groups, so he does some
• 2:30
  coaching. But anyway, if you we like to
• 2:33
  introduce our newest team members to you guys.
• 2:36
  So as you're looking for support and help, if something hits
• 2:39
  hard, then you can track Sammy down and get on his calendar.
• 2:42
  But outside of that, one of the things I asked Sammy is, is what
• 2:44
  do you feel like people really need to process and understand
• 2:47
  about recovery? So Sammy brought this one to the
• 2:50
  table, which is what's underneath acting out.
• 2:52
  What are the human needs beneath the behavior?
• 2:55
  Because acting out, it's maladaptive and it's attempt to
• 2:59
  meet a legitimate human need. So let's just call those out
• 3:03
  what they are here. So we're going to focus on four
• 3:05
  of the seven K big time today. So we're going to keep our focus
• 3:10
  on four of them, which is connection, validation,
• 3:13
  excitement and aliveness and comfort.
• 3:15
  So most people focus on like behaviour.
• 3:18
  They get upset around the behaviour, whether it's that
• 3:21
  they are doing it themselves or whether their partner is doing
• 3:24
  that. So they get focused on
• 3:25
  pornography, affairs, fantasy, the fact that somebody's on a
• 3:29
  dating app, the sexual attention that exists in their lives of
• 3:32
  seeking it out from other people.
• 3:34
  What we want to notice is that recovery requires accountability
• 3:38
  about that behavior, but it also requires curiosity about what's
• 3:41
  underneath it because people rarely repeat harmful behaviors
• 3:45
  for no reason. So they don't just go and do it
• 3:48
  because they're just like, don't have a reason.
• 3:50
  So I just want to give a little bit of empathy to the betrayed
• 3:52
  partner of like, gosh Dang it, I, that person, my partner
• 3:57
  cheated on me. They looked at pornography.
• 3:59
  They were hiding in secrecy. So there is not going to be a
• 4:02
  bunch of, inside this episode, a bunch of of reasons why that
• 4:06
  existed and saying it was OK or any, what do you call it,
• 4:11
  excuses. But what we are going to do is
• 4:14
  start to notice the human need that exists because if we don't
• 4:16
  know what it is and what we're actually going for, a lot of
• 4:20
  times the healing can't take place.
• 4:22
  All right, So Sammy, can we talk about connection first?
• 4:25
  Yeah. Just as a segue.
• 4:26
  Into this topic, why? I like to.
• 4:28
  Focus on this so much with men I work.
• 4:30
  With is. Because without this element,
• 4:33
  all you're doing is behavior management and you end up just
• 4:37
  having this really strict regiment of what you're allowed
• 4:39
  to do, what you're not allowed to do.
• 4:40
  You end up white knuckling stuff and then you.
• 4:42
  Tiptoe through life. And it's just very exhausting
• 4:45
  way to live and. To just.
• 4:48
  Attempt to tag on the way you said.
• 4:49
  It to. Betrayed partners and that.
• 4:52
  Yeah, the behavior is has. Impact and it's destructive and
• 4:56
  devastating and. That's part of.
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  The. Process of.
• 5:02
  Going through the effect that I had on other people and it's
• 5:05
  it's very self reflected and it's a hard thing to look at
• 5:09
  yourself. Right that I really.
• 5:10
  Affected people and then to be the recipient of that impact,
• 5:13
  it's also very hard because you didn't sign up for.
• 5:15
  That and so there's. Recognizing that side, but only
• 5:19
  addressing. That that's like what appears
• 5:22
  above the surface. And so only addressing that then
• 5:26
  without touching the the root. Of it.
• 5:28
  Then. All the, all that.
• 5:31
  Potential is still there to sprout up again actually, and so
• 5:34
  it's important to get. To the root, because that's the
• 5:38
  way. That's how it manifested to
• 5:39
  begin with. And let's so.
• 5:41
  Let's talk about it. Yeah, Leah, let's talk about
• 5:43
  connection first. So nothing unhealthy about
• 5:46
  wanting connection, right? Absolutely not.
• 5:48
  Such a human a must. The requirement for feeling
• 5:52
  really alive and fulfilled, that we feel connected to the people,
• 5:55
  we feel seen, we feel understood and accepted.
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  The real us, not the. Not a mask, not a part of
• 6:01
  ourselves, not a version. About that.
• 6:04
  We feel that closeness with people and and.
• 6:08
  That's it's so easy. To find that in porn and.
• 6:13
  Service level relationships and sex because it's.
• 6:17
  It's just like, let's talk about porn, right?
• 6:19
  Specifically because it's so easy to feel.
• 6:21
  Like I'm our brains trick ourselves into thinking like I'm
• 6:25
  with this person, I'm connected with this person and there's we
• 6:27
  have some kind of closeness. Because that's what sex offers
• 6:31
  people. Is the feeling of.
• 6:33
  Closeness, but it's completely. Fantasy and it's not real in any
• 6:38
  way, it's completely 1 sided. But that's that's the.
• 6:41
  Draw for a lot of men is it's just feeling of I'm connected to
• 6:45
  something. Boy, I tell you, one of the
• 6:47
  things that's hard for a person going through recovery is living
• 6:51
  in the present, not focusing in the fantasy of the future or
• 6:54
  spending time dwelling in the past.
• 6:56
  So if we think about how connection, how it becomes
• 7:00
  maladaptive, it creates the appearance of the sensation of
• 7:05
  connection without really requiring genuine intimacy.
• 7:08
  So on a computer, on a screen, looking at something sexual in
• 7:13
  nature, there's objectification going on.
• 7:16
  Parts of my brain are activated in ways that make it feel like
• 7:19
  that part is being fulfilled. That part is being needed.
• 7:22
  In fact, don't use this so much to measure y'all, especially
• 7:25
  betrayed partners. But I remember in my deepest
• 7:29
  darkest days of the most pornography use, I remember
• 7:32
  Alana like not begging, but coming close.
• 7:36
  Like can we please be like social?
• 7:39
  Can we please be like, can we please have friend groups?
• 7:42
  Can we engage in the world? Will you engage with me?
• 7:45
  Can we be connected? And I have done some healing
• 7:49
  with this and I've been over, got over some shame.
• 7:52
  But it still prompts and things inside of me of how little
• 7:55
  interest I had in connection, how little interest I had in
• 7:58
  seeking their connection with other men or healthy connection
• 8:01
  with other people, connection with Alana, because of the
• 8:04
  amount I was consuming of fake connection, it felt like that
• 8:08
  need was fulfilled. I didn't need that.
• 8:09
  And I had a partner that was starving of connection.
• 8:13
  Any thoughts on that Sammy? Yeah, it's because you, it's,
• 8:16
  you feel like I've got the the the box is checked, so to speak.
• 8:20
  And it's also just way easier and way less.
• 8:22
  Risky. It's like, like real.
• 8:25
  Life relationships are hard work and there's friction.
• 8:29
  There's risk of. It not going the way you'd
• 8:32
  hoped. And so like when you're doing
• 8:35
  that, when you're weighing the pluses and the minuses.
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  It's like it's. A didn't logical thing to do
• 8:41
  almost it's like OK one this is really easy.
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  I'm guaranteed to get what I'm hoping for and I have full
• 8:47
  control of the situation versus 1 is I've no idea what's going
• 8:51
  to happen. There is someone else who has
• 8:54
  opinions and preferences and they have input and that it
• 8:58
  might. I have to negotiate with them
• 9:00
  potentially on how this relationship goes and I have no
• 9:02
  idea what's going to end up happening.
• 9:04
  So like we. Don't do it consciously, but
• 9:06
  when we're comparing them side to side, it's like 1 obviously
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  seems just a better option. I love that.
• 9:11
  I love that example. I think about connection.
• 9:14
  What a person can experience is like that fantasy of being
• 9:17
  wanted. Often they can feel alone in
• 9:19
  their relationship. The betraying partner can be
• 9:21
  like, I wish my partner wanted me.
• 9:23
  And really it's just, if you think about porn, how it changes
• 9:26
  our brain, there's no cost for connection, right?
• 9:29
  There's no cost at all. There's no price to be paid for
• 9:32
  connection. It's right at my fingertips
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  getting something that feels like it's connection.
• 9:37
  So that temporary like sense of closeness when that's an escape
• 9:41
  from loneliness, that's what it can give you.
• 9:43
  Let me let's talk about the distinction.
• 9:45
  Let's use the word attention. Attention is not necessarily
• 9:49
  connection. All right?
• 9:51
  So sexual attention can make us feel like desired, but it does
• 9:56
  not always help us feel truly known.
• 9:59
  So if I'm a flirt or if a person is a flirt and they your partner
• 10:03
  is like, hey, I don't think you have boundaries.
• 10:06
  You've been a flirt your whole life like that, seeking
• 10:09
  attention. That's connection without
• 10:11
  vulnerability. It's intimacy without being
• 10:13
  fully seen. It's attention without emotional
• 10:16
  risk. So just notice how you are
• 10:19
  looking for connection if you're the betraying partner.
• 10:21
  How I've tried to do it without really any emotional risk,
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  without vulnerability, without it being real at all.
• 10:27
  Any thoughts on that, Sammy? Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:29
  And there's two sides. To this is that.
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  Me, so I'm as the person seeking attention.
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  Or there's the active actually. Revealing myself and being
• 10:38
  vulnerable, that's the like the the foundation for a real
• 10:42
  connection relationship. That's one side.
• 10:44
  But then there's also the other. Side of who we're getting
• 10:47
  attention from, perfect example is like social media.
• 10:50
  You got hundreds of thousands, millions of followers on
• 10:53
  Instagram and you have so much attention at your fingertips.
• 10:58
  But what's that worth? And not much, I say not much.
• 11:02
  Play with nothing. It's not worth anything like
• 11:04
  real of what we're seeking, what we're yearning for, because the
• 11:08
  attention of those people. It's it's selfish, actually.
• 11:12
  It feels like it matters, right? It feels like it's better than
• 11:16
  nothing. It's like a burnt.
• 11:18
  Cookie is better than no cookie. Well, I actually, I'm mopping
• 11:21
  what you're spilling. You get hundreds of thousands of
• 11:23
  followers or millions of followers.
• 11:24
  It feels like I matter. It feels like I'm enough, right?
• 11:27
  But it's not actually real. It's not that connection.
• 11:30
  The word thirsting for the word, the word needing as a human and
• 11:34
  the two sides of that is on our end the role of vulnerability
• 11:38
  and taking a risk and sharing ourselves and having and being
• 11:41
  seen by someone. So that's the other side is.
• 11:44
  Someone capable of actually seeing us and actually caring
• 11:46
  about us. And why do people give
• 11:49
  attention? It's self-centered on their end
• 11:51
  as well. It's that they like.
• 11:54
  The. They like what we're.
• 11:56
  Exuding and then so they respond with attention and so they've
• 12:00
  got their own needs that they're trying to get fulfilled.
• 12:02
  And so that's what they get from us and it's really.
• 12:04
  Like a trade. So like someone that's a flirt
• 12:07
  and why did why did like a man that likes to flirt with women?
• 12:09
  Why do women reciprocate that? It's because it the attention
• 12:13
  like the praise. Of.
• 12:15
  Being noticed, the power of having someone's attention or
• 12:18
  whatever it may be, and it's a mix of it's a cocktail
• 12:21
  different. Stuff, but there's this.
• 12:22
  Trade that's happening and so. Like the the.
• 12:26
  Kind of the prerequisites of connection.
• 12:29
  It's like on my end, like exposing myself, being
• 12:33
  vulnerable and open, and on the other hand, someone capable of
• 12:36
  receiving that, someone capable of actually seeing me and caring
• 12:39
  about me and not like trying to take something from here, pull
• 12:42
  something out of me. Yeah, we're going to take a
• 12:45
  quick break for a moment. I want to let you know of some
• 12:47
  things that we have coming up at Choose Recovery Services.
• 12:52
  If part of you keeps wondering, should I come to this Courage to
• 12:55
  Thrive intensive, I want you to listen to that question with
• 12:59
  compassion. Because many women minimize
• 13:02
  their pain, they tell themselves, other people have it
• 13:05
  worse. Or I should be over this by now.
• 13:08
  Or maybe I just need him to get better and then I'll be OK.
• 13:11
  But the trail trauma impacts your mind, your body, your
• 13:14
  nervous system, your sense of safety, your identity, and your
• 13:18
  ability to trust yourself. And healing was never meant to
• 13:22
  happen alone. Courage to Thrive is a space
• 13:25
  where you can finally exhale, A space where you don't have to
• 13:28
  explain why it hurts so deeply. A space where women around you
• 13:33
  simply get it. You'll experience powerful
• 13:36
  workshops, experiential healing activities, nervous system
• 13:40
  support, connection, education, and practical tools that you can
• 13:44
  take home with you. Most women leave saying I
• 13:47
  finally don't feel crazy anymore.
• 13:50
  And many also leave realizing that I matter too.
• 13:54
  So if something inside you feels drawn to this experience, honor
• 13:58
  that. That quiet voice inside you may
• 14:01
  already know what you need. I hope you'll join us August
• 14:04
  25th through 28th in Spanish Fork, UT.
• 14:11
  Let's get back to our episode. Well, Sammy, I got a question
• 14:14
  for you. What makes genuine connection
• 14:19
  more difficult than sexual attention?
• 14:23
  That's a good question, I would say.
• 14:26
  Risk, right? It's like to really show
• 14:29
  ourselves. To somebody what that?
• 14:31
  Puts us at risk of is. Being denied, being rejected and
• 14:36
  that this is really me and someone's like, oh, I don't
• 14:38
  like. That actually go away.
• 14:41
  And that is probably one of the most heartbreaking things you
• 14:43
  can experience. It's like the the real true vert
• 14:46
  true you. Is unwanted.
• 14:51
  That's what we want more than anything, is that my my
• 14:54
  ugliness, my flaws, my shortcomings, those can still be
• 14:57
  acceptable to somebody and to to experience that they're not.
• 15:01
  That's just heartbreaking. And so sexual tension, it's
• 15:05
  that's just that's more like a, a game that you can learn the
• 15:07
  rules of and to. Play if I give.
• 15:10
  This. Then I'll get this.
• 15:11
  It's more predictable, more measurable.
• 15:14
  So just wait. Safer.
• 15:17
  So I saved a question for myself.
• 15:18
  See if you can lean into this one here, Sammy.
• 15:20
  If it's difficult in recovery, early days of recovery, or at
• 15:24
  least when I have one, I'm not used to it learning how to
• 15:27
  tolerate being known. So real connection.
• 15:29
  If I'm used to getting a bunch of surface level, what I think
• 15:32
  is connection, but actually really lean into like that
• 15:35
  vulnerable you're talking about that you notice the clients
• 15:38
  learning to tolerate being known.
• 15:39
  What is that like for them? Oh, the beginning is the
• 15:42
  hardest. Part.
• 15:44
  It's just, it's full of suck. It's really.
• 15:46
  Sucks, honestly, because you got this emptiness and then you've
• 15:50
  been managing that emptiness and that.
• 15:54
  Need with a a. Substitute with porn, with sex,
• 15:58
  and then the vicious cycle that happens.
• 16:01
  As long as it's that is that that relationship is ongoing,
• 16:04
  then we can't see properly. It's like there's this.
• 16:06
  Fog in front of us. We're like just.
• 16:09
  A bug? That or a bunch of bugs are just
• 16:10
  flying in front of her face and we can't focus on what's in
• 16:14
  front of us. We can't be present and we can't
• 16:16
  see clearly and so. Like we have to, we have to cut
• 16:22
  that, we have to be able to, we have to clear.
• 16:23
  The fog and to be able to see clearly and.
• 16:26
  To do that just we go through withdrawal.
• 16:29
  And this is. Really hard because like.
• 16:31
  You had this management tool that you're using and so all of
• 16:34
  a sudden you don't have that. So what?
• 16:35
  Are you left? With is that emptiness, and you
• 16:36
  don't have anything else to fill that up for the time being.
• 16:39
  So that that. Phase and bridging that time
• 16:42
  period between OK, I'm not managing anymore, I'm feeling my
• 16:46
  emptiness and it's terrifying and I'm actually start then
• 16:51
  starting to get what I actually need.
• 16:54
  It's a really hard process to go through.
• 16:57
  It's like, it'd be nice if we could like just switch instantly
• 17:00
  from 1:00 to. The other but it barely works
• 17:03
  like that. It's often a transition.
• 17:06
  OK, thank you. I I realized I want to
• 17:09
  transition here in instant to validation.
• 17:11
  Sammy, I just had in our notes for today like validations help.
• 17:15
  There's a help you need for validation.
• 17:17
  Everybody need a level of validation that becomes
• 17:20
  maladaptive when you start to use sexual attention to answer
• 17:23
  the questions like am I attractive?
• 17:25
  Am I desirable? Am I still valuable?
• 17:28
  Do I matter when it's set, when it turns up sexual in nature, it
• 17:31
  becomes super problematic and super maladaptive.
• 17:33
  So any thoughts on this? So.
• 17:36
  What do you the last one you just said, I think that's the
• 17:38
  core question that we're trying to answer.
• 17:40
  Validation is do I matter? Does someone care about me and
• 17:43
  the extension as am I valuable, right.
• 17:45
  But and we answer that by answering do I matter?
• 17:47
  Do I do someone care about me? And so that's legitimate.
• 17:51
  We need to have that question answered and.
• 17:56
  Ideally as we're. Growing up, that's the.
• 17:58
  Role of our caretakers. I, you know, it's funny that,
• 18:01
  yeah, in an ideal world where, you know, butterflies land, wake
• 18:05
  us up by tickling us on the nose, right?
• 18:07
  And just everything's wonderful, then that's, that's exactly how
• 18:10
  it happens. But that's just not the case for
• 18:12
  most people. Right is that we grew up.
• 18:14
  With that validation that we do matter, that we've seen never
• 18:17
  cared for. And so virtually everybody, they
• 18:21
  are missing that and so they. Look to to feel.
• 18:23
  That in some way. And then like some people to
• 18:26
  work and career, I'm sure everyone could name a workaholic
• 18:29
  that just can't stop. And because what drives them is
• 18:35
  that feeling that needs to matter.
• 18:37
  And they found an area that they can fulfill that.
• 18:40
  And then some people, they find that in sex, they find that with
• 18:43
  the just the fantasy of of having attention sexually from
• 18:49
  other people to flirt with others or even just.
• 18:51
  To feel desirable. Or even just to feel wanted,
• 18:55
  even if it's temporary. Yeah, I like that a lot.
• 18:58
  They the one of the things that came up in the last podcast, and
• 19:00
  let's just do it here just in case somebody missed it.
• 19:03
  Emotional validation versus identity validation.
• 19:07
  Emotional validation, Like it helps when someone understands
• 19:09
  what I'm feeling. That's healthy, right?
• 19:11
  It helps when someone says they'll be careful that you're
• 19:14
  demanding your partner though you've hurt, that you've
• 19:16
  betrayed to understand what you're feeling.
• 19:18
  That's not what we're talking about.
• 19:19
  It is important that we find other people that can understand
• 19:21
  what we're feeling, but we're not requiring that of our
• 19:24
  partner who we've injured versus identity validation.
• 19:27
  I need someone's attention to prove that I'm worthy.
• 19:30
  So let me just give those two side by side.
• 19:32
  It helps when someone understands what I'm feeling.
• 19:35
  Emotional validation, identity validation, as I need someone's
• 19:38
  attention to prove that I am worthy.
• 19:40
  So we just want to recognize the difference, what we're after.
• 19:44
  Yeah, yeah. One of those very healthy,
• 19:46
  sustainably healthy. The other one is not.
• 19:49
  It will always put somebody else control of my.
• 19:52
  Yeah, we're hostage to other people's.
• 19:56
  Opinion of us, and that's where you get people who struggle with
• 19:58
  being people pleasers, is that they can't.
• 20:01
  Dare to be disliked. And they live.
• 20:04
  As a hostage. To people's opinions.
• 20:06
  Yeah, totally. OK, let's talk about the third
• 20:08
  one. Excitement and aliveness.
• 20:10
  So healthy need. Because people need.
• 20:12
  They need play. They need novelty, venture,
• 20:15
  challenge, creativity, energy. They need all those things.
• 20:19
  It becomes maladaptive when some people experience daily life as
• 20:24
  like flat to repetitive or I'm emotionally numb.
• 20:27
  I'm overly response predictable so acting out can provide.
• 20:32
  Even just that. My life is insignificant.
• 20:36
  Yeah. Insignificant doesn't carry
• 20:37
  meaning, right? Yeah, it doesn't really matter.
• 20:40
  So acting out provides like this emotional shift for us.
• 20:44
  It can provide like anticipation and it can provide risk.
• 20:47
  It can provide nominee and fantasy an intensity, a break
• 20:51
  from the routine, right. The build up can be the main
• 20:56
  reward. But the problem is it's super
• 20:58
  maladaptive. It's because what happens is it
• 21:01
  takes over my life that need for that need to become excited or a
• 21:06
  lot feel alive. Any thoughts on this, Sammy?
• 21:09
  And just and not capable of experiencing that anywhere else
• 21:12
  right again. And so many people like the
• 21:14
  hunt. It's that is where all the.
• 21:15
  Thrill is and just finding the right piece of material and
• 21:21
  that's where all the anticipation comes and the
• 21:24
  feeling of everyone is living a story where they're the main
• 21:28
  character and our desire and I I think very legitimate need we
• 21:31
  have is. To feel that.
• 21:33
  We're playing a significant role in our story and in our lives,
• 21:37
  and so when we don't, then it leaves us feeling unfulfilled.
• 21:40
  And we want to feel that in some way.
• 21:43
  And so wanting to feel powerful, wanting to feel like we're not
• 21:47
  everything's all. Tied together.
• 21:49
  And it I believe. Ties to.
• 21:51
  Being feeling like an important character in a story that we're
• 21:54
  participating in. I think of chasing the high in
• 21:58
  my own acting out. I've always, I was always, I
• 22:01
  don't say I was always surprised that was too black or white, but
• 22:03
  I was often found myself not really wanting to act out once I
• 22:08
  got there. But it was really chasing was
• 22:10
  the high of what could it look like?
• 22:11
  What could it be like? That excitement was sexually in
• 22:15
  nature, sexual could provide that high, it being sexual, but
• 22:19
  often just feeling so like just so like frustrated of like that
• 22:25
  wasn't really what I wanted. So I was just trying to feel
• 22:27
  alive. I was just trying to feel like
• 22:29
  life had purpose and it mattered and I was trying to do that
• 22:32
  sexually. I was trying to solve a problem
• 22:34
  sexually that wasn't a sexual problem.
• 22:37
  Yeah, for me it was like, what can I?
• 22:38
  Accidentally stumble on. It's like how could I find
• 22:41
  something sexual and a non sexual Ave.
• 22:44
  Yeah. And then and then just, it was
• 22:46
  like a game. That to play that.
• 22:47
  Had some excitement, anticipation and when when I got
• 22:50
  there. It was like, OK, well.
• 22:53
  You know, yeah, the section not what I want but.
• 22:55
  I would obsess over that process.
• 22:58
  Obsess over it, right? Seriously, like obsess over it.
• 23:02
  That powerful word. I could relate to that.
• 23:05
  So let's talk recovery direction wise.
• 23:07
  So healthy aliveness, let's give.
• 23:09
  I'm going to give you a bunch of examples of what to be helpfully
• 23:12
  alive looks like physical activity, by the way.
• 23:15
  I would have thought about that back in the day.
• 23:17
  I've been like, no, seriously, don't give me that one.
• 23:18
  There's nothing exciting about that, you know, and getting my
• 23:21
  heart rate up, learning something new, you know, that's
• 23:25
  a, that's a great way to feel alive.
• 23:26
  Creative work, anything where you're getting creative juices
• 23:29
  going. Hobbies.
• 23:30
  Yeah, where it's, you know, a healthy level of dopamine play
• 23:35
  service. That one matters a lot when I'm
• 23:39
  spending time thinking about what other people's needs are
• 23:41
  and actually meeting those needs and noticing that my brain
• 23:45
  feeling alive after that experience, maybe not before,
• 23:48
  but after. Deep conversation provides some
• 23:50
  alignments. That's why a lot of men love the
• 23:52
  groups that they end up going to is because they without the
• 23:55
  conflict of a relationship, they got to dive into some deep
• 23:58
  conversation about what's actually going on.
• 24:01
  Absolutely. I think taking appropriate
• 24:04
  risks, relational risks can be something that is makes us feel
• 24:08
  alive. And I'm thinking about when you
• 24:10
  lean into with your partner that what feels like it was a really
• 24:13
  scary conversation. You take a healthy relational
• 24:16
  risk there and yeah, you lean into it.
• 24:18
  That can make you feel alive. Yeah.
• 24:21
  Just those are some examples. Any thoughts there, Sammy?
• 24:23
  I think it's all excellent. Just maybe one of my dad would
• 24:26
  be having a direction in your life and feeling not just victim
• 24:32
  to your circumstances. Or like you just have to you
• 24:34
  have to react to whatever happens.
• 24:35
  But you have some direction out and all the important areas of
• 24:39
  your life with your marriage, with your relationship, with
• 24:42
  your family, with your career, your finances, how you want to
• 24:46
  spend your time, how you want to direct your energies, is that
• 24:49
  you've got some idea of where you're going and the areas of
• 24:52
  your life rather than just floating through things.
• 24:54
  And many people, they experience living on a treadmill where it's
• 24:57
  just the same cycle again and again, and it's repetitive and
• 25:01
  boring and unadventurous and so. That's that hole that.
• 25:06
  Sex fills. It's something exciting
• 25:09
  actually, having some direction for the different aspects of
• 25:12
  your. Life will help a lot.
• 25:14
  Yeah, Thank you. I, we guys, we're not going to
• 25:16
  get a chance to dive into the last one that we're going to
• 25:18
  talk about today, which was comfort.
• 25:20
  Let's just give it a little. We'll just give it a little bit
• 25:23
  of space here. Comfort that's a super healthy
• 25:25
  need because we have to be able to respond to stress the stress
• 25:29
  that life gives us the sadness, the loneliness that we feel the
• 25:33
  exhaustion, the rejection. It just becomes super
• 25:36
  maladaptive when we when acting out helps somebody stop thinking
• 25:41
  temporarily when they can shut down wall out and because that
• 25:43
  can be dangerous can be maladaptive when we start to
• 25:47
  numb emotional pain when we start to escape pressure when we
• 25:51
  start to soothe anxiety. I think about it just kind of
• 25:53
  like I think about a drug like heroin, like I can't do this
• 25:56
  life. I can shoot up and all of a
• 25:59
  sudden I don't have to deal with it.
• 26:00
  I don't have to deal with that pain.
• 26:02
  Just recognizing there's a comfort shame cycle, right?
• 26:06
  So a person experiences emotional discomfort, they don't
• 26:09
  recognize or express that need and they act out for that
• 26:11
  relief. And then that shame of
• 26:13
  consequence follows. So comfort is what we're after
• 26:16
  often to can, this can, that's the underlying need.
• 26:19
  So as we start to wrap this out, Sammy, on this thaw or anything
• 26:22
  else, what would you like to leave with us?
• 26:25
  I think we'll cover a lot of. Really important stuff.
• 26:27
  Or. What's really going on?
• 26:29
  And there's more. But it's a good starter.
• 26:32
  You know, well, glad that you're here, Sammy.
• 26:35
  I'm sure it won't be the last time on our podcast.
• 26:37
  Guys, if you want to spend some time with Sammy, please reach
• 26:39
  out. He does consults.
• 26:40
  So if you want to get a chance to learn a little bit about how
• 26:42
  he sees recovery and how he sees healing.
• 26:45
  And if you're and we are very grateful for you spending time
• 26:49
  here with us. So please take care and we will
• 26:51
  talk to you next time. Hey, so let's talk about a
• 26:54
  reclaimed intensive coming up. I know we have some buzz around
• 26:57
  it and I'm hoping we get to see you there.
• 26:58
  But let me tell you what it's about.
• 27:00
  Have you ever felt like a part of you genuinely wants recovery
• 27:03
  while another part of you keep sabotaging it?
• 27:06
  Where one part wants like connection to another part wants
• 27:09
  escape? Where one part wants honesty and
• 27:12
  another part wants to hide? And let me give you one more
• 27:16
  Where one part wants to be present with your kids, your
• 27:18
  partner, and your life, but another part of you wants to
• 27:21
  numb out, wants to check out, wants to disappear altogether.
• 27:26
  Many men spend years fighting this internal battle without
• 27:29
  even understanding what's actually happening beneath the
• 27:32
  surface. The truth is, you're not broken,
• 27:35
  you're not crazy, you're not fighting against yourself by
• 27:37
  accident. You're carrying a system of
• 27:40
  parts that were developed for a reason.
• 27:42
  That's why we create the reclaimed intensive.
• 27:46
  So Reclaim is a four day men's intensive build around internal
• 27:49
  family systems and parts work and other various tools of
• 27:51
  recovery. So together we want to identify
• 27:54
  these different parts of you and we want to understand the wounds
• 27:58
  and what they're protecting and how to be LED through your
• 28:02
  internal system so you can find some clarity and confidence and
• 28:05
  self energy that you haven't had before.
• 28:07
  Because this isn't about trying harder.
• 28:09
  It's about understanding what's happening inside of you.
• 28:12
  So if you're struggling and you want to move beyond managing
• 28:16
  some of the systems and start addressing it or please join us
• 28:20
  from August 18th to the 21st in Spanish Fork, UT.
• 28:23
  So go ahead and visit chooserecoveryservices.com, go
• 28:26
  to the intensive section and with the reclaimed intensives.
• 28:31
  And even if you want to schedule a consultation, we can talk
• 28:33
  about it more. Thank you for joining me for
• 28:39
  this episode of Beyond the Facade.
• 28:41
  If today's conversation resonates with you, I encourage
• 28:44
  you to explore the resources available through Choose
• 28:46
  Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute.
• 28:49
  Beyond the Thought is presented through a collaboration between
• 28:52
  these two organizations, both of which are committed to helping
• 28:55
  men and families find lasting healing, growth, and recovery
• 28:59
  through coaching, therapy groups, intensives, and
• 29:02
  immersive recovery experiences. Our mission is to help people
• 29:06
  move beyond survival and into lives marked by authenticity,
• 29:10
  connection, and integrity. You'll find links to both
• 29:13
  organizations, along with any resources mentioned in today's
• 29:16
  episode, in the show notes. Until next time, keep pursuing
• 29:20
  authenticity, keep doing the work, and keep moving beyond the
• 29:23
  facade.