Latest / Reality with The King / Trump vs Housewives & Kardashians with Ramin Setoodeh

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Trump vs Housewives & Kardashians with Ramin Setoodeh · Reality with The King

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Speaker 1: Hey rain Drops. Yes, so I finally got merch. That's right.
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Speaker 1: You can buy your allegedly and my Boys mugs, T shirts,
0:11
Speaker 1: rain Drops, hoodies and T shirts all on Carlos Kingshop
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Speaker 1: dot com. That's right. Get your hoodies, your T shirts,
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Speaker 1: and your mugs all on Carlos Kingshop dot com. Welcome
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Speaker 1: to Reality with the King. It's me Carlos kings the
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Speaker 1: King of Reality TV and one of the most sought
0:34
Speaker 1: after executive producers in reality television with over ten years
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Speaker 1: a production experience. Twice a week on Reality with the King,
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Speaker 1: we'll sit down with my friends across the entertainment industry,
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Speaker 1: recap our favorite reality shows, and revisit unforgettable moments that
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Speaker 1: we are still talking and tweeting about. Hey rain Drops.
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Speaker 1: On today's episode Reality with the King. Oh honey, I'm
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Speaker 1: here with a very special guest. I'm a fan of
1:03
Speaker 1: his work. He wrote the book that I love because
1:06
Speaker 1: you all know I'm a huge fan of the view.
1:09
Speaker 1: Megan McCain is one of my good friends, as you
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Speaker 1: all know too, because she's always against this podcast. But
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Speaker 1: this guy has another book out called A Prentice in Wonderland.
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Speaker 1: How Donald Trump and Mark Burnett took America through the
1:25
Speaker 1: looking glass, so please give it up for a man Satuda.
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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, Carlos, I'm so
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Speaker 2: excited to be here with you today.
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Speaker 1: No, thank you so much for taking time out of
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Speaker 1: your very busy press week. The book is out now.
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Speaker 1: I'm super stoked because listen, I'm such a fan of
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Speaker 1: the Ladies Who Punch. It was such a great book,
1:47
Speaker 1: and anybody who's a fan of the view it was
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Speaker 1: sort of like the National Choir meets Vanity Fair meets
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Speaker 1: US Weekly. You know. It gave me everything I needed
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Speaker 1: and wanted. So I'm looking for to your new book,
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Speaker 1: which is out right now. But talk to me about
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Speaker 1: this book because I'm hearing it is such a deep
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Speaker 1: dive in how Donald Trump and Mark Burnett collectively sort
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Speaker 1: of creative as character that we saw on The Apprentice
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Speaker 1: that inevitably became the President of the United States of America.
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Speaker 2: You described that perfectly. This is a book about how
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Speaker 2: reality TV, which I know your listeners love and watch
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Speaker 2: and talk about, change the world because it made millions
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Speaker 2: of people believe that the Donald Trump that they saw
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Speaker 2: on The Apprentice playing this boss of the boardroom could
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Speaker 2: actually lead the country. And in the same way that
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Speaker 2: my book about the View is juicy and dishy and
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Speaker 2: has a lot of interviews and a lot of bombshells
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Speaker 2: and revelations, Apprentice in Wonderland also takes you inside this
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Speaker 2: reality TV show and talks about all the ups and
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Speaker 2: downs and dysfunction and drama and craziness that was going
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Speaker 2: on behind the scenes. But I also talked to Donald Trump.
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Speaker 2: He and I sat down and I interviewed him four
3:07
Speaker 2: times since he left the White House. We talked two
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Speaker 2: other times on the phone, so six interviews total, where
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Speaker 2: I asked him about everything from am Rosa to why
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Speaker 2: he ended up firing certain boardroom advisors or certain contestants,
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Speaker 2: to his bringing his kids on the show, which is
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Speaker 2: why Ivanka and Don Junior became famous to America. So
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Speaker 2: this really goes through the entire evolution of reality TV.
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Speaker 2: And it was the same thing he ended up using,
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Speaker 2: the same template he ended up using when he ran
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Speaker 2: for the White House. So this isn't really a political book,
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Speaker 2: but it's about how Hollywood and politics converge and how
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Speaker 2: now we're living in this alternate reality because the president
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Speaker 2: of the United States could be a reality star.
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Speaker 1: Again, talk to me about The Apprentice, because what I'm
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Speaker 1: so fascinated that you're talking about in this book is
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Speaker 1: the fact that he did The Apprentice to really sort
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Speaker 1: of not only put his name out there, because we
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Speaker 1: already see that with the Trump you know, in Blaze
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Speaker 1: on every single building in New York City, you know,
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Speaker 1: Florida and Las Vegas. But he really wanted to become
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Speaker 1: somebody that the entire world knew. So when he first
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Speaker 1: met with Mark Burnett, what was that first meeting, like, like,
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Speaker 1: did he set out to become the biggest television star
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Speaker 1: in the world.
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Speaker 2: So Trump wanted to be famous his entire life. He
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Speaker 2: thought he was going to be a film producer before
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Speaker 2: he went into his family business because his father obviously
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Speaker 2: was a very successful real estate owner and then Trump
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Speaker 2: inherited the family business. But he always wanted to be
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Speaker 2: part of Hollywood. That's why he was on He did
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Speaker 2: cameos on everything from you know, The Nanny, just Sex
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Speaker 2: and the City to Home Alone. He was always trying
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Speaker 2: to get on camera. And so Mark Burnett and Donald
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Speaker 2: Trump met in two thousand and three, that's when Survivor
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Speaker 2: was shooting at the Ice skating rink in Central Park
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Speaker 2: that Trump had renovated. It was woman rink, and believe
4:54
Speaker 2: it or not, Rosie O'Donnell was the host of that
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Speaker 2: season of Survivor and Donald Trump was there with his
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Speaker 2: girlfrien from Milania and they met and Mark Burnett had
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Speaker 2: this idea to do another show that was basically like Survivor,
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Speaker 2: but instead of having it be in the jungle or
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Speaker 2: in an island, he wanted to be in the city
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Speaker 2: of New York where contestants were competing to see who
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Speaker 2: would win. And he needed a business mogul to play
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Speaker 2: this boss of the boardroom, and so he approached Trump.
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Speaker 2: He went to Trump's office. Trump said yes immediately, didn't
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Speaker 2: even talk to his manager, agent, nothing. He was getting
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Speaker 2: paid twenty five thousand dollars an episode for that first season,
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Speaker 2: which I know, that's a lot of money, but for
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Speaker 2: reality TV not really, that's not that much money for
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Speaker 2: Donald Trump, who was allegedly a billionaire at the time.
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Speaker 2: And so he ended up being on the show and
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Speaker 2: using the show to promote all of his businesses, his family,
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Speaker 2: his home, his life, and become this legendary figure of
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Speaker 2: you know, he'd gone through you know, ups and downs
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Speaker 2: in his own life, and he wasn't that famous. But
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Speaker 2: because of The Apprentice, everyone in America that I knew
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Speaker 2: Donald Trump and they liked him. They loved that he
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Speaker 2: was a tough guy that said you're fired and could
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Speaker 2: decide and choose and look and see who is the
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Speaker 2: strongest contestant in the boardroom. And that was the persona
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Speaker 2: that he cultivated and created. And that is the reason
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Speaker 2: why he became President of the States.
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Speaker 1: One of the other reasons why he became this reality
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Speaker 1: star based on your book, is the fact that Mark
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Speaker 1: Burnett allegedly taught Donald Trump how to perform for the camera.
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Speaker 1: So talk to me about that, because as reality TV producer,
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Speaker 1: one thing I always tell my reality stars is the
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Speaker 1: fact that a producer's job is similar to a music
6:30
Speaker 1: producer's job when they have an artist that they're working
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Speaker 1: with is vocal lessons. Is teaching you how to sing
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Speaker 1: the right chords or rap or or whatever the case
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Speaker 1: may be. You're teaching this artist how to become the
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Speaker 1: greatest singer of all time. So, Mark Burnett, who is
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Speaker 1: arguably a legend in the reality community, what did he
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Speaker 1: teach Donald Trump in terms of how to perform for
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Speaker 1: the cameras.
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Speaker 2: So I think that he taught him on camera. Trump
6:55
Speaker 2: has very good instincts, so he can be funny, he
6:59
Speaker 2: can be off the cut. He says things that are
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Speaker 2: like totally out of control. But that's really good for
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Speaker 2: reality TV, as you know as a reality TV producer.
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Speaker 2: So what Mark Burnett did was he took this caricature
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Speaker 2: image that Trump has and does and is this character
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Speaker 2: that he plays, and kind of found a way to
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Speaker 2: fine tune it. And in the boardroom. One of their
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Speaker 2: biggest fights, actually the two of them, was that Donald
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Speaker 2: Trump wants the entire episode of The Apprentice to be
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Speaker 2: the boardroom. He wasn't. He didn't care about the contestants,
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Speaker 2: care about the tasks. He thought there wasn't enough boardroom.
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Speaker 1: So over the years, they translation enough Donald Trump.
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Speaker 2: Exactly, They kept fighting over Trump. The boardrooms would become longer.
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Speaker 2: He would sometimes film for four hours doing these boardroom
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Speaker 2: scenes that on TV would be like, you know, five minutes,
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Speaker 2: ten minutes. But he wanted, he loved to be in
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Speaker 2: the boardroom because it made him feel powerful. And the
7:50
Speaker 2: other thing that Mark Burnett really taught Trump was that
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Speaker 2: what matters the most is your audience size. And Trump's
7:56
Speaker 2: fixation on ratings and his obsession on ratings, that's why
7:59
Speaker 2: he was always making up the numbers and saying they
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Speaker 2: had more people had his inauguration than Obama did. Was
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Speaker 2: because of the show. Because he would wake up every
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Speaker 2: day after the Apprentice aired and go and try to
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Speaker 2: find the ratings. He would facc the ratings to people
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Speaker 2: and he was so excited, and he'd sometimes even make
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Speaker 2: up the numbers when they weren't very good. He was
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Speaker 2: excited to own the ratings because he learned that the
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Speaker 2: only way to get renewed is as you know as
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Speaker 2: a producer, is through good ratings. So he was very
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Speaker 2: obsessed with the crowd size. He wanted the biggest number possible,
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Speaker 2: and we saw that when he became president.
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Speaker 1: So you said with him, you said a total four times.
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Speaker 1: And obviously he loves talking about himself, right, So when
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Speaker 1: it comes to reality television, did he talk to you
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Speaker 1: about his feelings towards that genre? Television was a love
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Speaker 1: hate relationship? Was it all love relationship that he had
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Speaker 1: with his genre? Like did he want to be as
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Speaker 1: big as Chris Jenner? When it came to like figuring
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Speaker 1: out how reality television can work for his business.
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Speaker 2: That's a great question. So Donald Trump and I actually
8:59
Speaker 2: sat in a wardroom in Trump Tower and we watched
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Speaker 2: clips of the show together. And when he saw the
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Speaker 2: theme song, he said he hadn't heard it for years.
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Speaker 2: It made him so that was probably the happiest I
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Speaker 2: ever saw him. He really lit up. Remember that money, Money,
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Speaker 2: Money theme song that's at the beginning of the show.
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Speaker 2: Then he goes, this is a really good show, like
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Speaker 2: he was like he was doing himself and then complimenting himself.
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Speaker 2: It was a really interesting dynamic, but not surprising. But
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Speaker 2: for in terms of the genre Donald Trump is, this
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Speaker 2: might also not be that surprising. But he's most interested
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Speaker 2: in himself. So I asked him about Kim Kardashian had
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Speaker 2: been on the show in one of the seasons to
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Speaker 2: promote one of her fragrance lines. Obviously, Chloe Kardashian was
9:44
Speaker 2: a contestant on The Apprentice. Didn't end well for her,
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Speaker 2: and so and Kaylen Jenner is now helping Trump and
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Speaker 2: campaigning for Trump. So he does have ties to the Kardashians,
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Speaker 2: but he's claimed that he'd never seen keeping up with
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Speaker 2: the Kardashians, but that they had something going on, and
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Speaker 2: he understood that that they were using their face somehow
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Speaker 2: to get people to watch them. And he had actually
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Speaker 2: been offered a show before The Apprentice. It was like
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Speaker 2: the Osbornes, where they were going to watch him be
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Speaker 2: a dad to his family and his kids, and he
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Speaker 2: had turned that down because he wasn't interested in playing
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Speaker 2: a father figure and he wasn't interested in sort of
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Speaker 2: being on camera, even though he loved be on camera
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Speaker 2: in that way. He was more interested in doing this
10:20
Speaker 2: show because it was a business show and he could
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Speaker 2: use the money because he made two hundred and thirteen
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Speaker 2: million dollars hosting The Apprentice for fourteen seasons.
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Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait waited
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Speaker 1: the money in other ways? Wait a second, hold on,
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Speaker 1: are you telling me Donald J. Trump made two hundred
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Speaker 1: and thirteen million the entire time he was doing all
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Speaker 1: his seasons of The Apprentice?
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Speaker 2: Yes? And you know why?
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Speaker 1: Why?
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Speaker 2: So back then reality TV was in its early stages, right,
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Speaker 2: so people didn't know really it was. Survivor was on,
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Speaker 2: Big Brother was on, the Real World. It was on,
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Speaker 2: but they weren't not. Survivor was a huge money making machine,
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Speaker 2: but they didn't know the extent to which how reality
11:02
Speaker 2: TV would be or how big it would be, and
11:04
Speaker 2: so when Mark Burnett sold The Apprentice to Jeff Zucker
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Speaker 2: at NBC, he said, I will give you the show.
11:10
Speaker 2: Donald Trump. Will do this for a very small salary,
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Speaker 2: but what I want in return is all the money
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Speaker 2: from any product placement that could be on the show.
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Speaker 2: And Jeff Zucker at the time didn't know how much
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Speaker 2: revenue they would generate from that, and so Mark Burnett
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Speaker 2: made this deal with Trump saying, you would get twenty
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Speaker 2: five thousand dollars an episode, but we're gonna split whatever
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Speaker 2: product placement we make, so big car company would come.
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Speaker 2: That's why every episode is like an ad. A big
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Speaker 2: car company would come. They'd say, we're going to do
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Speaker 2: this big car commercial. The contestants are going to work
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Speaker 2: on this car, and then Donald Trump and Mark Burnett
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Speaker 2: would split that fifty to fifty. They get five million
11:43
Speaker 2: dollars just from the car commercial of our Car Challenge,
11:46
Speaker 2: and they'd split that fifty to fifty. And I think
11:48
Speaker 2: a lot of people don't know that's how Donald Trump
11:50
Speaker 2: became rich doing The Apprentice. It was through this deal
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Speaker 2: that Mark Burnett engineered early on where they split all
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Speaker 2: the advertising. So anything that's in the show, mattel Levi's jeans,
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Speaker 2: the cereal companies that came on, the food companies that
12:04
Speaker 2: came on, all that money went directly in Donald Trump's pocket,
12:07
Speaker 2: which is why he was always promoting them and seeming
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Speaker 2: interested when he would meet these executives and talking about
12:12
Speaker 2: how great Donny Deutsche was or how great whoever was,
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Speaker 2: because this was leading to him pocketing millions of dollars.
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Speaker 1: My mouth is still on the floor, and I know
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Speaker 1: I have to talk, so excuse my pregnant pause. Two
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Speaker 1: hundred over two hundred million dollars. That's insane. And for
12:29
Speaker 1: my listeners, no housewife is making that much money. Ladies, gentlemen,
12:33
Speaker 1: and they just so you know, that's a shitload of money.
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Speaker 1: But it goes to show you how you really have
12:38
Speaker 1: to be a maverick when it comes to sort of
12:41
Speaker 1: figuring out how to make reality television work for you.
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Speaker 1: Donald Trump is somebody who did it. Chris Jenner is
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Speaker 1: somebody who did it with her entire family. Bethany Franco
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Speaker 1: did it and was one of the first reality stars
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Speaker 1: to really use the platform to promote their businesses, because
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Speaker 1: you make money with the business. Now, did he ever
13:02
Speaker 1: want to Kardashian his family, because we did see Evanka
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Speaker 1: become pretty much a co star in the latter seasons,
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Speaker 1: and we saw the other brothers make appearances. But listen,
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Speaker 1: it's no secret or it doesn't take a rocket scientist
13:19
Speaker 1: to know that Evanka is his favorite child. So did
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Speaker 1: he ever see this world where he wanted to use
13:25
Speaker 1: the genre to really make Trump a synonymous name in
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Speaker 1: reality television like the Kardashians for example.
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Speaker 2: You know it's funny, I'll answer that question. But Bethany Frinkle,
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Speaker 2: remember she started out on The Apprentice. She was on
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Speaker 2: the Martha start. There was a Martha Stuart version. We
13:40
Speaker 2: get into all the drama of that in the book
13:42
Speaker 2: how Martha Stuart tried to come in and take over
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Speaker 2: The Apprentice and Donald Trump was so upset and angry.
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Speaker 2: But what he learned from Martha was that Martha brought
13:50
Speaker 2: her daughter Alexis on to be one of the judges
13:52
Speaker 2: on the show. And so then when Donald saw that,
13:55
Speaker 2: even though he was very resentful of the Martha version,
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Speaker 2: the next season, that's when he really started to push
14:00
Speaker 2: to make sure that Avanka would be on as one
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Speaker 2: of the judges in the boardroom, and I would argue
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Speaker 2: that he actually did try to Kardashi in his family.
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Speaker 2: Because Avanka started to appear on the show, she was
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Speaker 2: wearing high end designer clothes. From there, she started judging
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Speaker 2: Project Runway, and then short time after that, we started
14:17
Speaker 2: to see Evanka lines of clothing and stores, which you
14:20
Speaker 2: know were then taken off the shelves after Trump became
14:23
Speaker 2: president because of the backlash. But she started a jewelry line,
14:26
Speaker 2: she started her shoes line. I remember my mom would
14:29
Speaker 2: always see the Avanca line and Tjmax when she goes shopping.
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Speaker 2: So Avanka really became a mogul on her own, and
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Speaker 2: I would say that it was the Kardashian effect for
14:38
Speaker 2: her because she then became a tastemaker at influence. So
14:41
Speaker 2: she had her own clothing line. People knew who she
14:43
Speaker 2: No one knew who she was. She was someone who
14:45
Speaker 2: had grown up as an EPO baby and was very
14:47
Speaker 2: very had a very famous father. But Avanka became famous
14:50
Speaker 2: because of The Apprentice because she sat next to her
14:53
Speaker 2: father in the boardroom and she would conduct the firings
14:55
Speaker 2: and he trusted her and he liked her, and she
14:57
Speaker 2: was also great on camera.
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Speaker 1: They ever talked to you about what was going on
15:04
Speaker 1: in terms of his relationships with some of the housewives
15:08
Speaker 1: that he had on the show. I mean, Niani Leaks
15:10
Speaker 1: appeared on the show, Teresa Judies appeared on the show.
15:13
Speaker 1: Did he ever like go into detail them or did
15:16
Speaker 1: anybody the producer you speak to talk about the reason
15:19
Speaker 1: why they wanted housewives, and particularly to be a part
15:23
Speaker 1: of Celebrity Apprentice.
15:25
Speaker 2: So the reason they ended up with the Housewives was
15:27
Speaker 2: that NBC had The Apprentice, and so seven seasons in
15:31
Speaker 2: they realized that they couldn't. The ratings were bad, and
15:33
Speaker 2: so they started adding celebrities. So Donald Trump was then
15:36
Speaker 2: judging the celebrities, and then the ratings went back up
15:38
Speaker 2: and NBC had the Housewives. So it was really good
15:42
Speaker 2: corporate synergy for them to then have the Housewives come on.
15:46
Speaker 2: So there's information about Ninnie Leaks in this book. She
15:50
Speaker 2: was There was one day that she swarmed off and
15:52
Speaker 2: Donald Trump had to go into the sidewalk and convince
15:54
Speaker 2: her to come back into the boardroom. We also talked
15:57
Speaker 2: about a very famous boardroom in season fourteen UH where
16:00
Speaker 2: Kenya Moore and vivid a Fox. Do you remember this?
16:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course is injected in my vein is my
16:06
Speaker 1: blood type?
16:07
Speaker 2: Yes, we're fighting, and Heroldo was sitting in between them,
16:12
Speaker 2: and Donald Trump was so excited when I brought up
16:14
Speaker 2: that boardroom. He talked about how people still talk about
16:17
Speaker 2: it to him and bring it up to him, and
16:19
Speaker 2: Eric said, it was very dark when they went through
16:21
Speaker 2: Kenya's phone and realized that she was tweeting from vivid
16:24
Speaker 2: a Fox's phone. It was just a very dark moment.
16:26
Speaker 2: But what was so interesting was that when he told
16:29
Speaker 2: that story, he was watching the clip and he saw
16:32
Speaker 2: that Heraldo was very quiet because he was between the
16:34
Speaker 2: two women and they were fighting, and Roaldo kind of
16:36
Speaker 2: slid by. Donald Trump then tells me a story about
16:39
Speaker 2: why he and Miroaldo had a falling out, and while
16:41
Speaker 2: he was telling that story, he accidentally admitted Donald Trump
16:44
Speaker 2: for the first time to journalists that he lost selection
16:46
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty.
16:47
Speaker 1: So wait, wait, wait, that's breaking news.
16:54
Speaker 2: It is breaking news. You have to read the book
16:56
Speaker 2: to get the full story. But I'm giving you the
16:59
Speaker 2: I'm giving you some here, the cliff notes version. He said,
17:02
Speaker 2: when I lost selection, Heralda called me and then catches
17:05
Speaker 2: himself and realizes what he said. So I actually think
17:07
Speaker 2: that Donald Trump knows that he lost election, but he's
17:09
Speaker 2: playing a reality character and he knows how much attention
17:12
Speaker 2: he gets for denying that he lost selection. So this
17:15
Speaker 2: is like really really high level performance art that we're
17:18
Speaker 2: dealing with. Because Donald Trump is a reality star, and
17:21
Speaker 2: I think that's really important for people to remember when
17:23
Speaker 2: you look at politics and what he's doing. He's a
17:25
Speaker 2: reality star. He's a very good reality star, and we're
17:28
Speaker 2: now all living in his reality.
17:29
Speaker 1: I am so fascinated by this because the thing I
17:32
Speaker 1: always to try to tell my audience about reality stars
17:36
Speaker 1: is the fact that they're not normal, and that's not
17:39
Speaker 1: a dig there's nothing negative about that. They're not normal
17:44
Speaker 1: in the sense of how they operate. They have a
17:46
Speaker 1: high self esteem, of confidence. Some have this delusion of grander.
17:51
Speaker 1: It's if you want to be the biggest reality star
17:55
Speaker 1: in the world, you have to have bigahnahs, you have
17:58
Speaker 1: to have to have grit, and you have to have
18:02
Speaker 1: this sense of high self esteem and not really understand
18:08
Speaker 1: the real world. Because when I deal with some reality stars,
18:12
Speaker 1: the stuff that they talk about, I'm like, that's not
18:15
Speaker 1: happening at all, Like you made this up in your mind.
18:19
Speaker 3: You convinced yourself that we are against you, or that
18:23
Speaker 3: somebody's against you, and that's not the quote unquote reality
18:27
Speaker 3: of this situation, as you were fortunate enough to have
18:30
Speaker 3: these many sit downs with him.
18:32
Speaker 1: Is it a character trait that he just has to
18:36
Speaker 1: where like most reality stars, he truly does believe his
18:40
Speaker 1: own hype or does he know like I'm playing a character,
18:45
Speaker 1: which we call the real life special is when the
18:48
Speaker 1: real light comes on the camera and you just all
18:50
Speaker 1: of a sudden become like this person, and then when
18:52
Speaker 1: the camera's off, you're back to normal. Which one would
18:55
Speaker 1: you say he is? Or is he a little bit
18:56
Speaker 1: of both?
18:57
Speaker 2: I think what happened was the red light turned on
19:00
Speaker 2: and the Red Light Special never went away. So I
19:03
Speaker 2: think the character he played on TV then started to
19:05
Speaker 2: become his own personality. And that was actually an analogy.
19:08
Speaker 2: One of the contestants from season one, his name was Sam,
19:10
Speaker 2: told me it's kind of like when he thought he
19:14
Speaker 2: was playing a character and then he became that character.
19:16
Speaker 2: Another executive NBC also compared it to Austin Butler when
19:20
Speaker 2: he was Elvis. You know how he was like mumbling
19:22
Speaker 2: on his press tour and we couldn't tell what was
19:23
Speaker 2: going on because he was like talking like Elvis even
19:25
Speaker 2: though he was a real person and he was trying
19:27
Speaker 2: to be Austin Butler. That's what Donald Trump I think
19:30
Speaker 2: is like he played this character on The Apprentice for
19:32
Speaker 2: fourteen seasons. He got so much positive affirmation, so much money,
19:37
Speaker 2: so much encouragement, so much love from the American public,
19:40
Speaker 2: that that then became part of his personality. Because when
19:42
Speaker 2: I sat down with him, it's not like he was
19:45
Speaker 2: different than he is on TV. He's actually very similar
19:47
Speaker 2: than he is on TV. He's funny, he says things
19:49
Speaker 2: that sometimes don't make sense that you know, tangents. But
19:54
Speaker 2: he is a reality star, and he does drink his
19:55
Speaker 2: own kool aid, and he does believe he's the very best,
19:58
Speaker 2: and he does believe he deserves anything. And he does
20:00
Speaker 2: I believe he should run again. He believes in himself.
20:02
Speaker 2: He has that confidence that a reality star has. And
20:05
Speaker 2: we're all along again. We're all along for this ride.
20:08
Speaker 2: And one of the reasons why I call this book
20:09
Speaker 2: Apprentice in Wonderland. It's like Alice in Wonderland, Right, we
20:12
Speaker 2: all went down the rabbit hole with him. But we
20:14
Speaker 2: can't wake up, we can't go back to regular life
20:16
Speaker 2: because reality TV is now taken over the White House.
20:20
Speaker 1: Fascinating. I'm beyond fascinated by this. Speaking of fascination, I'm
20:26
Speaker 1: a Rosa Manigault, Okay, I mean when The Apprentice first debut,
20:32
Speaker 1: I was maybe a sophomore in college, I believe, and
20:37
Speaker 1: in my journalism class, we were all just given like
20:40
Speaker 1: topics right about and I'm like, I'm going to talk
20:42
Speaker 1: about like I'm a Rosa Madigal at the Apprentice. So
20:46
Speaker 1: my headline was, you know, the angry Black Woman.
20:50
Speaker 2: And at the time, yes.
20:52
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, please please feel free. No, it
20:55
Speaker 1: was this. It was the first time we kind of
20:58
Speaker 1: heard this sort of acron was called ABW is still
21:01
Speaker 1: for angry Black Women, and Amorrosa was like the face
21:05
Speaker 1: of it. And it was when television, whether it was
21:07
Speaker 1: scripted or unscripted, was kind of going down this path
21:12
Speaker 1: of showing black women, you know, being very assertive and
21:18
Speaker 1: you know, you know, talking loud or whatever the journalists
21:24
Speaker 1: and the media we're saying out the time. So long
21:26
Speaker 1: story short, I've always been fascinated by her she then
21:31
Speaker 1: became an employee at the White House. So when it
21:34
Speaker 1: came from when it came to Amrosa, what was the
21:38
Speaker 1: decision making not only casting her and keeping her on
21:42
Speaker 1: the Apprentice to make appearances that ultimately led to her
21:46
Speaker 1: having a position in the White House.
21:52
Speaker 2: I think that's the perfect example of the thesis of
21:54
Speaker 2: this book, which is that reality TV came crashing into
21:58
Speaker 2: the real world, and we can't now take that back,
22:01
Speaker 2: because you're right, Amrosa was a character and she was
22:03
Speaker 2: the villain. And it was also very controversial because she
22:06
Speaker 2: was the only black woman on the first season and
22:08
Speaker 2: she was being portrayed as a villain, and it was
22:11
Speaker 2: a stereotype and a lot of people at the time,
22:13
Speaker 2: I remember this was before social media, but found it
22:15
Speaker 2: very offensive that Amrosa was saying one thing to her
22:18
Speaker 2: contestant and then trying to undermine them. She wasn't a
22:20
Speaker 2: team player, she was creating drama for the sake of drama.
22:24
Speaker 2: She wasn't being honest. And remember when she was in
22:27
Speaker 2: that construction site and a piece of construction, Eric Trump
22:30
Speaker 2: talked to me about this actually Donald Trump's, so it
22:32
Speaker 2: fell on her shoulder, and then she claimed that she
22:34
Speaker 2: had a concussion and she couldn't work, and she sat
22:36
Speaker 2: down and she couldn't. So the book goes through the
22:39
Speaker 2: evolution of Amrosa, and I talked to Donald Trump about
22:43
Speaker 2: arm Morosa, and so in season one, the first time
22:45
Speaker 2: she was on the show, what happened was that she
22:48
Speaker 2: was that character. She was who she was undermining people
22:52
Speaker 2: and kind of backstabbing people. And because she became so popular,
22:56
Speaker 2: they brought her back with two seasons of Celebrity Apprentice,
22:59
Speaker 2: even though she wasn't really celebrity, but maybe she was
23:01
Speaker 2: because she's Amors and everyone knows who she is. And
23:03
Speaker 2: Donald Trump really loved her, loved the ratings, loved the drama,
23:07
Speaker 2: loved that there was no way that her spotlight would
23:09
Speaker 2: be bigger than his because he was more famous than
23:11
Speaker 2: she was, and that she relied on him for her fame.
23:15
Speaker 2: And then he brings her into the White House, and
23:17
Speaker 2: he tells me in the book that a lot of
23:19
Speaker 2: people warned him against it and he didn't think it
23:21
Speaker 2: would end well, but he still brought her in because
23:24
Speaker 2: he's conditioned to think about ratings, right, and Amrosa always
23:27
Speaker 2: brings ratings, and by bringing in he throws people. He
23:30
Speaker 2: gets a lot of press. People are confused, they're interested,
23:33
Speaker 2: like that's the way Donald Trump operates. And then when
23:35
Speaker 2: it goes badly and she secretly tapes records him and
23:38
Speaker 2: writes her tell all book, he feels he genuinely feels
23:41
Speaker 2: very betrayed by her. He claimed to me that he
23:44
Speaker 2: didn't see her much in the White House, although we
23:45
Speaker 2: know from her book that they did see each other
23:48
Speaker 2: quite a bit and that she couldn't cut the mustard
23:51
Speaker 2: in the White House. And if you read the book
23:53
Speaker 2: in full, you'll see his descriptions of her and their feud.
23:57
Speaker 2: But Donald Trump really thrives on feuds. He loves feuds,
24:00
Speaker 2: and am Rossa was a phenomenon in his life and
24:03
Speaker 2: a huge star as a results of The Apprentice.
24:06
Speaker 1: Okay, so one of his decision making calls, you're you're.
24:13
Speaker 2: At You're at a loss for words.
24:14
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, no, this is this is I mean, listen,
24:17
Speaker 1: me and my listeners are like gagging at the same time.
24:20
Speaker 1: But that's how we are. No, I'm shocked, although I
24:24
Speaker 1: shouldn't be, but whatever, I am.
24:26
Speaker 2: But it's shock. It's shocking. It's shocking that the reality
24:30
Speaker 2: TV that we All Love and Watch has now infiltrated
24:35
Speaker 2: the White House and there's no way to pull it back.
24:37
Speaker 2: And a lot of journalists and people that interact with Trump,
24:40
Speaker 2: probably unlike your listeners, aren't so well versed in reality TV,
24:45
Speaker 2: so they're not looking at Donald Trump like a reality star.
24:47
Speaker 2: That's one of the arguments of this book, and it
24:49
Speaker 2: is a page turner. It is really juicy. But when
24:51
Speaker 2: you get to the end, there's a huge scene at
24:53
Speaker 2: the end where I go to mar A Lago and
24:54
Speaker 2: I really we really realize and see how the reality
24:58
Speaker 2: star of Donald Trump is lined up with who he's
25:01
Speaker 2: trying to be as a politician and this illusion that
25:04
Speaker 2: we have and this mirage that he's created, and really
25:06
Speaker 2: the repercussions of reality TV in our culture.
25:10
Speaker 1: One thing I know, being a reality producer, that I
25:13
Speaker 1: get flag for is like, is it real? Is it scripted?
25:15
Speaker 1: Did you guys like make the sub Are they fighting
25:18
Speaker 1: for no reason? All those things? And when you look
25:21
Speaker 1: at the political climate right now, right it's like nothing
25:26
Speaker 1: I've ever seen before in my lifetime. And my jaw
25:30
Speaker 1: is constantly dropping when it comes to just how listen,
25:34
Speaker 1: A lot of people, whether they're senators whatever role they play,
25:40
Speaker 1: you know, in the White House or even in DC.
25:44
Speaker 1: A lot of people are becoming famous based on the
25:48
Speaker 1: arguments that are happening in Congress, you know, based on
25:52
Speaker 1: us giving you know, getting access to kind of seeing
25:56
Speaker 1: how some of these situations are current, whether it's trying
25:59
Speaker 1: to pass the bill or whatever discussions that are happening,
26:02
Speaker 1: you know, in DC, and we're seeing like people cuss
26:06
Speaker 1: each other out. We're seeing people damn there coming to blows,
26:11
Speaker 1: you know, fighting. We saw obviously what happened on January sixth,
26:17
Speaker 1: you know that the insurrectionists. You make a really good point,
26:21
Speaker 1: and I wonder if Donald Trump realizes that he and
26:28
Speaker 1: I'll say this, Donald Trump to me single handedly turned Washington,
26:36
Speaker 1: d C. On its head and the White House and
26:40
Speaker 1: everything we were taught growing up studying a government or
26:44
Speaker 1: you know, judge things about the United States of America
26:48
Speaker 1: that he single handily flipped it and turned this into
26:52
Speaker 1: things that we will watch or reality TV, Like, does
26:56
Speaker 1: you take any ownership in what DC and the White
27:00
Speaker 1: House has become.
27:02
Speaker 2: The only ownership he takes is pride that he was
27:06
Speaker 2: able to come in as an outsider and shake things up.
27:09
Speaker 2: But you also know, for every reality TV star, especially
27:12
Speaker 2: the ones that behave badly, they're not going to ever say, oh, well,
27:15
Speaker 2: I admit I shouldn't have done that. They don't apologize,
27:18
Speaker 2: they don't admit defeat, they don't admit fault. And these
27:22
Speaker 2: are all qualities in Donald Trump. But he again has
27:24
Speaker 2: always been rewarded for being a great reality star, so
27:28
Speaker 2: he has no incentive to say, you know what, I
27:30
Speaker 2: take ownership for the fact that I've done this or
27:32
Speaker 2: this or now GC's a mess. He's claiming he quote
27:36
Speaker 2: drains the swamp. He's claiming he's an outsider that's going
27:39
Speaker 2: to fix things and build a wall. He's claiming all
27:41
Speaker 2: these certain things. But again, it's the training in reality
27:44
Speaker 2: TV that has led him this way. And the only
27:47
Speaker 2: way in which I think we can really understand what
27:49
Speaker 2: happened is by going back and studying the Apprentice and
27:52
Speaker 2: unpacking what we as an American country and as a
27:56
Speaker 2: society have contributed to this and understanding what's happening. Because
28:00
Speaker 2: the media right now, the way they're covering him, they're
28:02
Speaker 2: acting again like he's a traditional candidate, and he's not.
28:04
Speaker 2: He's our first reality TV president, and we have to
28:07
Speaker 2: educate ourselves on what exactly is happening here.
28:10
Speaker 1: Do you think he'll win again and this later this year?
28:14
Speaker 2: I think that based on all the time I spent
28:16
Speaker 2: with him, and based on understanding the way he uses
28:18
Speaker 2: the cameras and the media and attention and the spotlight.
28:22
Speaker 2: Although there are a lot of people that don't like
28:24
Speaker 2: him and are mad at him, and he's now a fellon,
28:25
Speaker 2: I do think he has a very good chance of winning, guess.
28:28
Speaker 1: And a lot of it has to do with the
28:30
Speaker 1: fact that he knows how to use the power of
28:34
Speaker 1: the media for his benefit.
28:36
Speaker 2: He understands the value of cameras following him everywhere, and
28:41
Speaker 2: by following him more than anyone else, he ends up
28:43
Speaker 2: being the winner by default. Right, So we're only talking
28:46
Speaker 2: about him. So when November comes around, although there's so
28:49
Speaker 2: much baggage and problems and legal issues, if you've only
28:53
Speaker 2: paid attention to Donald Trump, he's making the calculation that
28:56
Speaker 2: people are gonna en up voting for him. He's turned
28:58
Speaker 2: the presidency into a sense a popularity contest, and he's
29:02
Speaker 2: just trying to get the most amount of attention.
29:05
Speaker 1: Interesting, Okay, I want to move into his uncensort thoughts
29:10
Speaker 1: about the celebrities he's been in contact with, whether it's
29:14
Speaker 1: been on The Apprentice or justin life. Can you give
29:16
Speaker 1: us some tea? And yes, guys, please buy. The book
29:20
Speaker 1: is out in stores now. Apprentice in Wonderland. Okay, So
29:25
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you some names I want you
29:29
Speaker 1: doesn't give it a little tidbit about his fossil them,
29:33
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift.
29:34
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift was interesting because this was in mar A
29:37
Speaker 2: Lago and I asked him this Taylor was on her
29:40
Speaker 2: Aeros tours. She's still on her Aras tour. What he
29:42
Speaker 2: thinks of Taylor and Taylor had come out in twenty
29:45
Speaker 2: twenty and actually says she was a Democrat because in
29:48
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen we didn't know. And it was very interesting
29:51
Speaker 2: because Donald Trump loves picking fights with celebrities. He loves
29:54
Speaker 2: going ahead to head with celebrities. But even he knows
29:57
Speaker 2: that the Swifties are very loyal and Taylor Swift is very,
30:00
Speaker 2: very famous. So he describes her to me in very
30:04
Speaker 2: hedged language. He holds back and rather than talk anything
30:08
Speaker 2: about her, say anything negative, he calls her beautiful, very beautiful,
30:12
Speaker 2: unconventionally beautiful, and used the word beautiful five times in
30:15
Speaker 2: describing Taylor Swift. Then he asked He said he knew
30:18
Speaker 2: that she probably doesn't like Trump and then asked me
30:21
Speaker 2: how as a country star that was possible. And I
30:24
Speaker 2: had to then explain to the former president. I states
30:26
Speaker 2: that Taylor Swift is no longer a country star. She
30:28
Speaker 2: makes pop music. And he was, you know, kind of
30:31
Speaker 2: a little confused about that, claimed that he didn't listen
30:34
Speaker 2: to her music, and then asked me how Garth Brooks
30:36
Speaker 2: doesn't support him, because Garth Brooks is a country star,
30:39
Speaker 2: so obviously Hollywood is very important to him and famous
30:41
Speaker 2: people are very important to him. But he held back
30:44
Speaker 2: on Taylor and just commented on her beauty. And as
30:47
Speaker 2: a result of that, the Swifties have now come out
30:49
Speaker 2: in full force and they do not like this at all. Wait.
30:53
Speaker 1: Wait, the Swifties don't like any of this.
30:56
Speaker 3: No.
30:57
Speaker 2: They trended on Twitter when this part came out. They said,
31:00
Speaker 2: stay away from her. Ah, Donald Trump commenting on Taylor
31:06
Speaker 2: Swift's beauty. They do not like that. Even the nice
31:08
Speaker 2: thing he said about her did not sit well with them.
31:11
Speaker 1: No, I'm laughing because I'm like he tried his best
31:14
Speaker 1: not to have the swifties attack him, and they're doing
31:17
Speaker 1: it anyway because you're calling her beautiful, So that to
31:21
Speaker 1: me is super funny. He's afraid of the swift day.
31:24
Speaker 2: You're gonna have to read the way and describe it.
31:26
Speaker 2: He does it in a weird way because he keeps
31:29
Speaker 2: repeating it over and over again. So I think to
31:31
Speaker 2: him as a compliment, but I think to other people
31:33
Speaker 2: that read it, it did read a little creepy.
31:36
Speaker 1: Chloe Kardashian.
31:38
Speaker 2: So, Chloe Kardashian was on The Celebrity Apprentice. This was
31:41
Speaker 2: in the early seasons of the Kardashians and she hadn't
31:43
Speaker 2: blown up, and at the time, Donald Trump was very
31:46
Speaker 2: upset that Kim wasn't the contestant, that they only got Chloe,
31:49
Speaker 2: and Kim was on Dancing with the Stars. So there
31:51
Speaker 2: was a Huffington Post article about Chloe being fired from
31:55
Speaker 2: the show because Donald Trump thought quote that she was
31:57
Speaker 2: overweight at the time. And so when I mentioned Chloe
32:00
Speaker 2: and we watched a clip of Chloe, he told me
32:03
Speaker 2: that he had seen her recently and she looked quote
32:05
Speaker 2: so much better, and that she couldn't cut it on
32:08
Speaker 2: The Apprentice because she wasn't tough enough. But there are
32:11
Speaker 2: producers who talked about the Hoppington post and me and
32:14
Speaker 2: said that she was He was very misogynistic toward her
32:17
Speaker 2: and made comments about her weight behind her back. So
32:19
Speaker 2: it was a very ugly chapter in her life. And
32:21
Speaker 2: Chloe has come out and said how she really didn't
32:24
Speaker 2: enjoy being on the show.
32:27
Speaker 1: Yikes, yikes, yikes. Okay, I got two more for you.
32:32
Speaker 1: Dennis Rodman.
32:34
Speaker 2: Donald Trump loves Dennis Rodman. He was on The Celebrity
32:36
Speaker 2: Apprentice twice. He said that Dennis Rodman was cool. He
32:41
Speaker 2: dated Madonna back in the day, which Sean Trump really liked. Again,
32:45
Speaker 2: it's connection to celebrity, and he actually said, believe it
32:48
Speaker 2: or not that when he was thinking about talking to
32:50
Speaker 2: Kim Jong un of North Korea, the dictator of North Korea,
32:54
Speaker 2: he thought about calling Dennis Rodman and asking him for
32:57
Speaker 2: advice because he felt like Dennis Rodman knew more than
32:59
Speaker 2: the White House advisors who were there to help him
33:02
Speaker 2: about international relations. And when Donald Trump sat down with
33:05
Speaker 2: Kim Jong Un, he brought up Dennis Rodman and their
33:08
Speaker 2: association and mutual friendship with Dennis Rodman. So he talked
33:12
Speaker 2: to the North Korean dictator about Dennis Rodman being on
33:15
Speaker 2: Celebrity Apprentice, but he is a huge fan of Dennis
33:19
Speaker 2: Rodman's and he said he got Donald Trump got black
33:22
Speaker 2: because Dennis Rodman was drunk in the first time around,
33:26
Speaker 2: and Donald Trump just wouldn't fire him because he was
33:28
Speaker 2: so good for the cameras. And he finally got fired.
33:30
Speaker 2: Do you remember why he got fired? Because there was
33:32
Speaker 2: a project where they had to do something for Malania's
33:35
Speaker 2: beauty line and they sell Milania's name wrong and Dennis
33:39
Speaker 2: Rodman didn't catch statt and so Milania was very offended.
33:42
Speaker 2: And Donald Trump and I watched that clip and he
33:45
Speaker 2: really lit up that Milania was because there's so much
33:47
Speaker 2: speculation about what's going on Donald and Malania, but he
33:50
Speaker 2: lit up that Malania was funny on the show, and
33:52
Speaker 2: he really liked that his wife had a chance to
33:54
Speaker 2: be funny on the show.
33:56
Speaker 1: Oh jees, this is so juicy. Okay, one more Debra
33:59
Speaker 1: met saying, which we all love, will and Grace. What
34:03
Speaker 1: did he say about my grace?
34:06
Speaker 2: Okay, So this is going to be a huge surprise
34:07
Speaker 2: to your listeners. But Donald Trump and Debra Messing have
34:10
Speaker 2: been fighting and feuding for years because she's obviously very
34:12
Speaker 2: liberal and was very very she went after him on
34:16
Speaker 2: social media when he became president, understandably so for his policies.
34:19
Speaker 2: So back in the day, the Apprentice of Will and
34:21
Speaker 2: Grace were on the same night, and Donald Trump told
34:24
Speaker 2: me that they were at an NBC event and Deborah
34:27
Speaker 2: Messing came up to him and was very complimentary and
34:30
Speaker 2: very flattering, very thankful that the Apprentice was helping the network,
34:34
Speaker 2: and he admitted to me that he found her to
34:36
Speaker 2: be very, very attractive and beautiful, and he almost seemed
34:40
Speaker 2: hurt that Deborah Messing, who he seemed to have a
34:42
Speaker 2: crush on and talking about her and language that sort
34:44
Speaker 2: of suggested that he had a crush on her, no
34:48
Speaker 2: longer liked him. And it almost was like again a
34:50
Speaker 2: scene out of a reality TV show where Donald Trump
34:53
Speaker 2: liked Deborah Messing, Deva Messing stopped liking Donald Trump, so
34:56
Speaker 2: and now Donald Trump doesn't like Debora Messing and they
34:57
Speaker 2: had in this messy, messy feud. But there's an entire
35:01
Speaker 2: section of this book about Will and Grace because Donald
35:03
Speaker 2: Trump also saying at the Emmys with Megan Malally and
35:06
Speaker 2: he talks about why he's sang Green Acres at the
35:09
Speaker 2: Emmys with Megan Malually and what prompted him to do
35:12
Speaker 2: that live on television.
35:17
Speaker 1: Every story just gets better and better and better. And
35:21
Speaker 1: one thing you talked about earlier was policy, and I
35:25
Speaker 1: do hear some of his policies as president he got
35:31
Speaker 1: from doing celebrity princes or just the princess in general.
35:37
Speaker 2: In terms of well, you know, inviting the kash Kim
35:40
Speaker 2: Kardashian into the White House. That's a total reality star move.
35:44
Speaker 2: Going to Dennis Rodman when talking about, you know, North Korea,
35:49
Speaker 2: when he signed a Farmersville and he couldn't really remember
35:52
Speaker 2: what the farmer's bill was, but he posted at the
35:54
Speaker 2: time a clip of himself singing at the Emmys. Everything
35:58
Speaker 2: he does always traces back to show business. So he
36:01
Speaker 2: governs the country as a reality star, and I think
36:03
Speaker 2: that's really important for people to understand. He makes his
36:06
Speaker 2: decisions based on what was successful when he was on
36:09
Speaker 2: the Apprentice, and that's what he knows, and that's the
36:11
Speaker 2: world he knows. So if you go back and you
36:14
Speaker 2: look at what he's effective at, or what he tried
36:16
Speaker 2: to do, or why he was able to not really
36:18
Speaker 2: do anything during COVID. It's because there are limits to
36:22
Speaker 2: start them right, There's only so much to do as
36:24
Speaker 2: an influencer, as a reality star, and when it actually
36:27
Speaker 2: you have to actually move the needle and make tough decisions.
36:30
Speaker 2: It's a little harder in the real world than it
36:31
Speaker 2: is on TV.
36:33
Speaker 1: Did you get a sense from him that he loves
36:35
Speaker 1: politics or he just sees this as like a gig.
36:38
Speaker 2: He seemed so much happier when talking about The Apprentice
36:40
Speaker 2: than when talking about Washington, DC. Because when he was
36:43
Speaker 2: on The Apprentice, he was a character that people liked,
36:45
Speaker 2: and as president, he's not a character that people like.
36:48
Speaker 1: So that's the thing. And again to bring it back
36:51
Speaker 1: to reality stars. So I always tell people reality stars
36:54
Speaker 1: are the most sensitive group of people in the world
36:58
Speaker 1: because they're being judged for, you know, oftentimes being their
37:01
Speaker 1: authentic selves. And all reality stars, at least in the beginning,
37:08
Speaker 1: they're obsessed with the comments on social media. They have
37:12
Speaker 1: this need to be liked by everybody. I always got
37:16
Speaker 1: this sense that when he became president. Yes, he has
37:19
Speaker 1: his base, you know, he has his fans, and he
37:22
Speaker 1: has people who clearly are obsessed with him. But I
37:27
Speaker 1: always felt that he did not enjoy Hollywood, the one
37:33
Speaker 1: industry to me that he seemed to be happy to
37:37
Speaker 1: thrive in that they shun him, and to me, I
37:42
Speaker 1: feel like he still is upset about that.
37:47
Speaker 2: He's very upset about that. You'll see that in the book.
37:49
Speaker 2: He's obsessed with Hollywood. He told me he spent a
37:53
Speaker 2: lot of time talking about Hollywood, the people that betrayed him,
37:55
Speaker 2: the people that he used to invite over his house
37:57
Speaker 2: that no longer want to talk to him. He claimed
37:59
Speaker 2: that he's winning the vote secretly. Guess where. Not in
38:03
Speaker 2: Ohio and Florida, not in any of the swing states.
38:05
Speaker 2: He told me he's secretly winning the vote in Beverly Hills.
38:08
Speaker 2: Why Beverly Hills. Not just the housewives, but a lot
38:11
Speaker 2: of celebrities live there, And so he wanted me to
38:14
Speaker 2: know that secretly, in Beverly Hills people support him. He's
38:17
Speaker 2: also very upset still after all these years, that he
38:19
Speaker 2: never won an Emmy for The Apprentice. But that's a
38:21
Speaker 2: whole other story.
38:22
Speaker 1: And ah, I mean, look, at the end of the day,
38:27
Speaker 1: the Apprincess was legendary. It was an iconic show. I
38:32
Speaker 1: am shocked and did not win an Emmy. Speaking of
38:34
Speaker 1: which two more questions. Did you speak to Mark Burnett
38:39
Speaker 1: at all?
38:40
Speaker 2: Mark Burnett and I communicated for this book. He did
38:44
Speaker 2: not want to do an official on the record interview.
38:47
Speaker 2: But he is in this book and you will see
38:49
Speaker 2: how he's in this book when you read the book.
38:51
Speaker 2: But his presence is certainly in the book throughout the book.
38:54
Speaker 1: Oh, he's so legendary. I just he was.
38:58
Speaker 2: One of the stories that was interesting was that he
39:00
Speaker 2: really really really hates the contestants when they came into
39:04
Speaker 2: audition for the show. So there was a Contestancias and won.
39:07
Speaker 2: Her name was Heidi. She was a fan favorite. She
39:09
Speaker 2: told me when she walked in. The first thing he
39:11
Speaker 2: said to her was, Oh, that purse that you have
39:15
Speaker 2: is a fake perse She was carrying a Gucci at
39:16
Speaker 2: the time, and he did that to really try to
39:19
Speaker 2: rile her up to see what kind of reality star
39:22
Speaker 2: she would be. But there's a lot if you love
39:24
Speaker 2: reality TV, there's also a lot in this book where
39:26
Speaker 2: it deconstructs the process in which they found the contestants,
39:29
Speaker 2: what it was like behind the scenes, because he's again
39:31
Speaker 2: this was in the early days of reality TV. How
39:34
Speaker 2: Mark Burnett pulled all the levers they had. They were
39:37
Speaker 2: all once they were vote off the show. They all
39:39
Speaker 2: lived together in a hotel, but they gave up their phones,
39:42
Speaker 2: they gave it their wallets, They had no contact with
39:44
Speaker 2: the outside world. They really controlled these contestants to try
39:47
Speaker 2: to make sure that they weren't influencing what was happening.
39:50
Speaker 2: And Donald Trump, weirdly enough, hung out with them when
39:53
Speaker 2: the cameras weren't rolling. So with other reality hosts, they
39:56
Speaker 2: really don't want to be near the contestants when the
39:58
Speaker 2: show's over. But Donald Trump really liked them. But we
40:00
Speaker 2: go into the whole process and we see how Mark
40:02
Speaker 2: Burnett was the ultimate puppet master and really controlling everyone.
40:06
Speaker 1: Mmmmmmmmmmm. Okay, So last question for you. This is Juicy one, okay,
40:14
Speaker 1: and the book Trump shares his biggest regret in show business.
40:20
Speaker 2: His biggest regret in show business. He claims that Jeff
40:24
Speaker 2: Zucker got his job in CNN because Donald Trump helped
40:28
Speaker 2: him and gave him a recommendation with an influential executive
40:31
Speaker 2: at CNN. And so Donald Trump thought that by helping
40:34
Speaker 2: Jeff Zucker go to CNN, he would always get really
40:37
Speaker 2: nice coverage from CNN. And then they had a huge
40:40
Speaker 2: crazy falling out. But wait, can I tell you one
40:43
Speaker 2: more thing, one more story, one more story.
40:45
Speaker 1: By all means yes.
40:47
Speaker 2: So the funniest story that he told me, And it
40:50
Speaker 2: wasn't intentionally trying to be funny, but he had. The
40:53
Speaker 2: entire family has a tremendous affection for John Rivers. She
40:55
Speaker 2: won the second season of Celebrity Apprentice. She was, you know,
40:59
Speaker 2: her care was in a tough place, and then she
41:02
Speaker 2: came back because of the show and ended up doing
41:04
Speaker 2: more on e and was in one of the Iron
41:06
Speaker 2: Man movies, iron Man three, I think, And so being
41:08
Speaker 2: on the Celebrity Apprentice really helped Joan and she credited
41:10
Speaker 2: Donald Trump with a lot of that. And so Donald
41:12
Speaker 2: Trump told me, he said that Joan really, you know,
41:15
Speaker 2: respected her, respected him. Joan really respected Donald Trump and
41:19
Speaker 2: really admired him. And he said, I know for a
41:21
Speaker 2: fact that Joan Rivers voted for me in twenty sixteen.
41:26
Speaker 2: The only problem with that was that Joan Rivers wasn't alive.
41:34
Speaker 2: But again, he's a reality star. He knows the good
41:36
Speaker 2: sound lights to say they're not true. But that's a
41:39
Speaker 2: great confessional watch on a reality show. And then the
41:42
Speaker 2: producer would have to cut to like someone else saying, actually,
41:45
Speaker 2: mister President, he's no longer with it, she was no
41:47
Speaker 2: longer with us.
41:48
Speaker 1: Oh my god, and everyone you have it there. I mean, listen,
41:54
Speaker 1: this book is so juicy. I literally want to nestle
42:01
Speaker 1: up in my bed, like like I did with The
42:03
Speaker 1: Ladies Who Punched. By the way, I like read that
42:06
Speaker 1: over three day weekend. I was like flying and I'm
42:09
Speaker 1: like on the plane, I had a long flight. I'm like,
42:12
Speaker 1: I was so into it because you're such a genius
42:15
Speaker 1: at making us the reader feel like we're in the
42:18
Speaker 1: room having these conversations that you're having with these people,
42:23
Speaker 1: and the access that you're able to get is just splendid.
42:27
Speaker 1: It's I mean, job well done on this. And I listen,
42:31
Speaker 1: I smell another best seller from you with this one,
42:37
Speaker 1: my friend. It's thank you so much.
42:39
Speaker 2: Let me know when you read it. And I think
42:41
Speaker 2: you can just read it on a beach over the
42:42
Speaker 2: holiday weekend or if you're going on a trip somewhere,
42:45
Speaker 2: like it's a fast read and I can't wait to
42:47
Speaker 2: hear what you think.
42:48
Speaker 1: No, I certainly will, certainly will so again. Rain Drops
42:51
Speaker 1: Apprentice in Wonderland is out in stores. Now is out
42:56
Speaker 1: in bookstores and they can get this like online, where
43:00
Speaker 1: can everyone get this?
43:01
Speaker 2: Amazon? You can get a Kindle version, you can get
43:04
Speaker 2: an audiobook version. It's wherever books are sold, Bars and Noble.
43:08
Speaker 2: It's a widely released book and you can get it
43:10
Speaker 2: wherever books are sold.
43:11
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for hopping on Reality with the
43:14
Speaker 1: King has been an honor and a pleasure to meet you. Finally,
43:17
Speaker 1: like I said, I'm a huge fan of your work
43:18
Speaker 1: and I know I'm going to be a huge fan
43:20
Speaker 1: of this book too. Thank you for listening to Reality
43:26
Speaker 1: with the King. New episodes drop on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Share, comment, follow,
43:32
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43:36
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43:58
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