Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Toby Savage on Exploring and Photographing the World by Land Rover and WWII Jeep

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Toby Savage on Exploring and Photographing the World by Land Rover and WWII Jeep · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: I'm your host Scott Brady em For today's episode, I
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: spend time with Toby Savage. Toby is a longtime friend
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: and someone that I've long admired as a traveler. He's
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: also an expert on land rovers of all vintages and
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: also has spent quite a bit of time working on
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: the Long Range Desert Expeditionary Group. Content and history that
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: goes all the way back to World War Two. So
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: enjoy my conversation with Toby. We talk a lot about
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: historical places, we talk a lot about travel, and we
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: talk a bit about land rovers. And a special thanks
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: to Rocky Talkies for their support of this week's podcast.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Rocky Talkies are backcountry radios designed by a small team
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: in Denver. The radios are extremely rugged, easy to use,
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: and compact, weighing in at just under eight ounces. They
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: have a range of one to five miles in the
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: mountains and up to twenty five miles line of sight.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: The batteries will last from three to five days and
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: you can recharge them easily via USBC right in the vehicle.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Our team uses Rocky Talkies and we also use them
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: recently at the Overland Expo. The next Overland Expo, stop
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: into our booth and say hello and check out the
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: radius for yourself. And as a listener of the Overland
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Journal podcast, you can get ten percent off of pair
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: by going to Rockytalkie dot com forward slash Overland Journal.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Thanks again, Rocky Talking, Thank.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: You all for watching.
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: I'm here today with Toby Savage. Is so great to
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: have you on the podcast.
• 1:45
  Speaker 5: What a joy, very much.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: Especially yes, and we just we just had.
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: A nice little drive in the Grenadier who drove about
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: drove about ten miles over to get some food at
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: a pub because all the pubs in this little village
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: were closed.
• 2:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, I had a part of London Pride, which
• 2:07
  Speaker 5: is a very good bitch.
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: I did have a Guinness. I did it, which is
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: I do like a dark beer. If I have a
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: beer at all, it will be a dark one. And
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: we're actually recording the podcast right now in an old
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: horse stable so that they've turned into an airbnb and
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: it seems to be working out just fine. It's very Yeah,
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: it's nice that I think it'll be a good home
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: base for me over the next couple of days. So
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: there's There's so much to talk about, your career as
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: a journalist, your career as a professional photographer, your exploits
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: as an adventurer around the world. But I think it
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: would be interesting to know where did it all start, Where.
• 2:46
  Speaker 5: Did you grow? Well, it has always been there, and
• 2:49
  Speaker 5: it doesn't come from my mom and dad, who are
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: pretty stay at home. Really. My grandfather on my mother's side,
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: he did a lot. He was in the First World War.
• 2:58
  Speaker 5: Sadly he was in Calli passion about and the song
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: had survived, so he's seen some action. He traveled a lot.
• 3:06
  Speaker 5: So they moved out to Singapore when he was in
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: his twenties and then moved back to Britain, so there
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: was a bit of travel there. But I really didn't
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: know about that. When I was growing up. It was
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: more camping trips with my friends from school, which I
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: always enjoyed, and I remember making lists of how many
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: tea backs to take and slices of bread. I was
• 3:26
  Speaker 5: obsessive with it and I probably still had that. That
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: organizing of events means as much to me as the
• 3:32
  Speaker 5: actual event itself. Doing the planning, because it's very impolan
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: and if you've planned Bobby, you have mistakes, hopefully. But
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: then we had a teacher, mister Kirby, Jeff Kirby, when
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: I was probably thirteen, who had what he called an
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: old land rover, but in nineteen sixty seventy can't possibly
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: have been that adult. He used to take groups of
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: us camping at weekends and there was no paper. It
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: was just asked your mum and dad if it's okay,
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: and it was so, you know, that can't be done
• 4:02
  Speaker 5: anymore in our teaching environment, it's too difficult. But then
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: it was. It was great, and that really did give
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: me an appreciation of getting out there in the countryside
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: and camping, which is last to this day. I'm actually
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: camping in France next this weekend under cameras. I can't
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: believe it. That sort of formulated the outdoor part of
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: my life, which continued.
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: What would you say was your first big land rover adventure.
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: This year celebrating fifty years of landrovers, not because they're
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: landrovers like none of they're pretty good, but they were
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: the key to doing the things I wanted to do.
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: Therefore wheel drive, they were simple to mend, and they
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: were cheap, and that sort of applies today really that
• 4:50
  Speaker 5: they are a means to an end, as are other things.
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: But for me it just happened to be a landrover.
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: So I bought this thing seventy three hundred and twenty quid.
• 5:01
  Speaker 5: It was nineteen fifty four eighty six inch and we
• 5:05
  Speaker 5: lived I was at Art Coast. We lived in a
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: twenty two foot caravan just below fixedburry Ring and iron
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: a show Ford behind the lorry yard for two pounds
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: a week. It was hippie stuff. I had long hair
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: and water. Yeah, so we thought we'd take this on holidays,
• 5:27
  Speaker 5: and we took it to Wales on holiday. The thing's
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: enormous and of course we got it set on the
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: beach and we got into trouble from the beach management,
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: and then we got it stuck trying to get it
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: to a farm to camp and night. All those experiences
• 5:41
  Speaker 5: you realize that when you asked of you will get unstuck,
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: and that is an important thing to remember. We didn't
• 5:49
  Speaker 5: have a week or anything. We just had some planks
• 5:50
  Speaker 5: of wood and some rope, but we did get unstuck.
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: And I think that sort of must have sunkey, because
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: every time I have got stuck and there's been mad
• 5:59
  Speaker 5: it I see it's an opportunity to get used and
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: I think we're all a bit like that.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: Well, and it makes for a great memory.
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: Well, there's another couple of paragraphs feature and.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: We got on sorry exactly.
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: So let's talk a little bit about the first time
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: that you wrote about land. You've been featured in Overland
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: Journal many times, and you've been featured in publications around.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: The world, and what was your first feature article.
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: And there's a bit of luck involved. I'd been to
• 6:26
  Speaker 5: a boujelat who vot tasting in Leicester in nineteen ninety
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: two and when I came out, I bumped into an
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: ur fielders, So I knew this was nine in the
• 6:35
  Speaker 5: morning and I had of four glasses of met one
• 6:37
  Speaker 5: so it wasn't the best time I have a business meeting.
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: But he said, oh, you're a photography he's actually doing
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: some arcological so yeah, yeah, it'd be great. I thought
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: a member of it, and then he contacted me and said,
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: if you're on for it, we've got this dig going
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: on and we'd like to contake some pictures. And I
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: just assumed it'd be some muddy field but it was
• 6:53
  Speaker 5: just outside of Rome in my Hills, it was just
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: a beautiful spot. So I thought, well, we're onto something
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: here that has to gravitas of a decent story for
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: a landload a magazine. And also I can do some
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: travel photography which I used to do so through Lively
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: in London. I can do that, and I've had a
• 7:12
  Speaker 5: client who did tourism page moild Days in Vester. They're
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: quite established it. So I thought if I could pull
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: it in three little bits of income and like a car,
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: it would work. Yes, anyway, So I contacted landro This
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: is the the days where they're owned by British Aero Space,
• 7:29
  Speaker 5: I think, and Colin Walke and Josephine as a HEROI
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: walker with a PR department, press office, and I put
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: this plan together. I said this is what I'm going
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: to do and they said yeah blind. I said yes,
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: we'll drop it off at your house. I could not
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: believe it. Anyway, the brand new range Rover Classic now
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: TDI was dropped off at my house.
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: What a beautiful car.
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: Well, it was perfect. They did about thirty to the canon.
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: I was in a hurry. It was comfortable. It was
• 7:55
  Speaker 5: a brand new Yes, sure, so I set off. I
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: went up into Austria. In Germany and then dropped down
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: into Italy, and because there's no mobile phones or satellite navigation,
• 8:05
  Speaker 5: and it was a man a pretty vague indication of
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: where the archaeologist. But I did find them in the
• 8:11
  Speaker 5: end and spent three or four days with them, and
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: we got some I did some video, and I did
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: some still pictures of what they were doing, and I
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: did some nice pictures of the range, which then went
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: on to make the front cover of Andron, which was
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: like a big deal, and I had five pages inside
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: as well. So I thought, I'm honestly here, this is good.
• 8:34
  Speaker 5: With a bit of pay from here and a bit
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: of pay from there, the trip cost me nothing. I thought,
• 8:39
  Speaker 5: I like this. So I based the rest of my
• 8:42
  Speaker 5: life on that, traveling and doing things for other people
• 8:46
  Speaker 5: and having read time.
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: When we were talking earlier at the pub, we talked
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: about a series of yesses moving you in the direction
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: that you wanted to go, and it is that's one
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: of the greatest challenges in life, is knowing what to
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: say no to and what to say yes too.
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I tend to say yes to mostly it's worked
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: out well for you, it has, but you sort of
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: weigh it up don't you think, well, yeah, that sounds fun.
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: I've never been materialistic, so as long as I've got
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: enough money to live, that'll do. So I've left with
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: ten pounds and that's all it is. I'd spend it
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: on diesel, yeah, eat something that urged to travel, and
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: it gets more so as I get older as well.
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: I think one hundred pounds. I did that.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: I do it well, and recently you did. So let's
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: talk about the trip you just got back from. So
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: you you left the UK on your six fifty gs
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: and where did you go.
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: I'd had it in mind so through the winter I've
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: been sitting down on Google Maps and streets. You're thinking
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: I can go there, and I can go there, and
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: I can go there, And I didn't think i'd do it.
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: I thought I'll have the plan in place and then
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: if there's a suitable period of time. I bought the
• 9:59
  Speaker 5: motorbike the year before with a view to doing a
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: trip on its. I don't ride a motorbike just for
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: a to beads. It's for a trip. I do have
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: a little pondo want to five for around. But this
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: was proper and I've got all the loggage and all
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: week gear and no idea. I have to say I've
• 10:16
  Speaker 5: only been riding for I've bet twenty years now, but
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: I came into motorcycling weight. So the plan was in place,
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: and then various circumstances conspired to think, well, look I
• 10:25
  Speaker 5: could do this. Next week I bot nothing. The weekend came,
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: I thought, yeah, Monday. Ill, So it was it was
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: that short time because I had six weeks with nothing
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: much on. So I booked a ferry from Portsmouth to
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: Santander in northern Spain. So it was one hot down
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: to Portsmouth, which is mediter straightforward in cold and the gray.
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: So I arrived there with there the three bikers waiting
• 10:48
  Speaker 5: here on the free thing about bikes. They assume we
• 10:50
  Speaker 5: want to talk about the bike and not about the trip. Yes,
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: so oh yeah, what's that? But I think I don't
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: know it's a bike. I really don't. No, I don't
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: want to know lots about the workings often as long
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: as it goes anyway. Our player came and then we
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: got on the ferry. The next day stepped off in
• 11:07
  Speaker 5: Santandemin State, where it was still a bit iffy in
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: the weather. I went along on the north coast into France,
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: and then up into France for a bit and then
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: dropped down. Well, I just had no timetable. And what
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: I liked about being on a motorcycle is you can't
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: carry too much clover. You can carry your clothes and
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: so keep warm and dry and that's it.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: And that's about it.
• 11:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, a few snacks, yeah, and some water
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: to drink. But I was always intended to stay at hotels.
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: There were a couple of times when I'm difficultly finding one,
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: but we got into a rhythm of seeing bed in
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: the laptop in the morning and going on booking dot
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: com and think I'll stay there, then plotting a route
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: that avoided motorways and big roads. It was beautiful. The
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: roads I traveled on were just georged, empty of traffic,
• 11:53
  Speaker 5: good tarmac. I'd probably do one hundred, two hundred and
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: fifty miles a day, which is doable.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, very modest.
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: I didn't want to be here. I was having a
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: good time. So I went up through father down through Italy,
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: where I stayed with a friend for a couple of
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: nights in normally, and then down to Bari on the
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: southeast coast, and then got a very over like Albania,
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: where I'd never been, and I heard lots of different
• 12:18
  Speaker 5: things about it, and it lived up to expectations.
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: So now, how does Albania compare like with Croatia, for example,
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: because they shared the same coastline, but they're you know,
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: of course Albania is much further south.
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: It's further and it's poorer, but it will catch up.
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: So it came across to me as it was definitely
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: poorer and things were cheaper. The Albanians were very friendly,
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: and the mountains were just gorgeous and again nobody there,
• 12:45
  Speaker 5: so the routes I was picking were exactly what I wanted.
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: I wanted to be riding up a gentle slope through woodland,
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: getting into the top, see a huge view, taking a
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: deep breath and thinking how lucky I am to stand
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: here and do this. And the arsenal. Yeah, you know,
• 13:02
  Speaker 5: people they'll sit in the pub saying, well, I think.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: I might go and do this, and they do it,
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: and time flies by.
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: If you don't do it, well, yeah, and you get
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: to you know, you think about one day, I'm going
• 13:11
  Speaker 5: to do this trip, get out there and do it. Anyway,
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: Albaia was right after I ended up on a sort
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: of seaside resort at the end, which was quite very comfortable,
• 13:20
  Speaker 5: really in a nice hotel which was only fifty for
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: a night, and for what it was, it was good.
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: And then shout it down the rain and I looked like.
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: Fantastic, And then you ultimately made it to an island,
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: and then you had the Leaba bike behind.
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: I went down through Greece and crossed over on the
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: ferry to Coss because my able was to go to
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: Turkeys to see some friends there. Coss is a beautiful island.
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: I rode around that and stayed in town of Costs,
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: which is where the port is, and there was a
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: listing of a ferry daily, but they said, oh no,
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: it's every other day now it's off season. So I
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: was in this hotel near the port. I went back,
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: said okay, I have a ticket for me and the
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: bike and said what bike pass? I said, no motorbike.
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: There's no cars or motorbikes going over until the summer.
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: The boat's being serviced. So I said to the hotel,
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: do you mind if I leave my bike right outside
• 14:13
  Speaker 5: your office window for a couple of days. It looked
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: at me and just to say, well, they're so friendly.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: I had to take a lot of stuff off, put
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: it in the past and cover it with a cover.
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: It looked a bit of a mess, but he says,
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: no what, I leave it there, So I didn't know.
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: I was a foot soldier over to the Turkey. I'll
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: come back in two days. But then the wind up,
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: but the ferry was canceled, so I was sat there
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: for a week. There are worse places to be stuff.
• 14:39
  Speaker 5: Of course I had to phone the hotel. I said,
• 14:42
  Speaker 5: lot on refine, but I'm going to leave the bike
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: there for a few days. He said, of course, you
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: shad thank you. I got back and everything was fine,
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: and then I thought the ferry back decrease. I had
• 14:53
  Speaker 5: been intending to ride up through Turkey, past the area
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: Callipoli and the boss Us and do that. That that
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: didn't happen, so I went up the east coast of
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: Greece and then into Macedonia, which was quite a culture shop,
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: such a poor country. It was like a quarter of
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: the prosperity of the other places, which was fine as
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: a tourist because you get a lot for your money.
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: But you could just see that that I was a
• 15:16
  Speaker 5: huge generalization. But the women seem to stay at home,
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: the men go out and drinking, gambling and smoking, and
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: you think that this is your life, isn't It probably
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: was for a lot of quite a shock. I stayed
• 15:28
  Speaker 5: there for three nights before coming up into what's next Serbia,
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: I think where it became more.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Civil in Macedonia.
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: What was the terrain like mountains, All of the geography
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: is fairly similar all through Greece and Macedonia and Serbia.
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: Pleasant nice mountains, good roads. Macedonia, the roads were a
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: bit pot on fact. I remember we said to me
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: when we were driving through the desert, lie sure liye,
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: so you keep your short eye on the potholes in
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: front of you. That mantra has stuck with me. So
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: thanks Rick, if you're watching.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, Ricks, he's just a legend. Yeah, within the
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: jeep community.
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: And I forgot about the fact that you did that
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: long range Yeah yeah, So let's talk about that for
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: a minute, because that was that was I thought, very
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: ambitious and it was generally like a very well regarded
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: expedition that you did.
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: Combinations, say, yes, a lot of luck and a bit
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: of down with the battle to postpone it for a
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: year because of the Arab spring. So we had everything
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: in place, We had the two jeeps ready, we had
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: some excellent guests, Rick by one of them, and that
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: water from the it was Club Jason. Also from that
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: a Swedish author just written a book of them. So
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: it's oh, I can't believe we're going to go, Yes,
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: let's go. It was all in place, yeah, and then
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: they kicked out egyptiando I think, yeah, the boosted him
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: out and they all kicked off and it was just
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: too dangerous to go into Egypt. And Mahmoud, our Egyptian friends,
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: said that we were ready to go. So I had
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: to send an email saying, look, guys, this is a
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: situation planning on postpone and I hope you'll stick with
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: us because we might have to do it next year.
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: Rick's comment was, can't we just sit machine guns? Probably not,
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: I like your style. So we did it the following year,
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: and we shipped the jeeps to Alexandria and a container
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: and it took hassle get him out, but it was
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: almost to a hassle because it's North Africa, of course,
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: and we got them out and we completed twelve hundred
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: miles of pure desert in two nineteen forty three jeeps
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: with backup. We had a truck, two to editors, an
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: army a to with four guys from the military tourist policemen.
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: You have to have. They wouldn't have been any use
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: if anything had happened, but that's the rule of the pain.
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: So it was always quite a big budget production, really,
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: but we managed to pull it together and we achieved
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: it and we to this that was incredible.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: What was the history of the Long Range Desert? Why
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: is that significant?
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: I mean, I know some of it, but yeah, it was.
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: They were a big part of our victory in North Africa.
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: So there's a guy called Ralph Backer who between the
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: walls were stationed in Cairo. And these were clever guys,
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: you know. They were from the Universities Investment in England.
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: They had to do their national service and they ended
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: up in Cairo. So you've got half a dozen of
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: bright people who are adventurous hold up in Cairo. So
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: they started to go out into the desert in their
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: model t thoughts and map it and then their trips
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: got more and more ambitious. To appoint my fall, we're
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: giving them the new model ay and they take all
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: the bodywork off and put a flatbed on the back,
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: loaded up with jerry cans, and they'd do a thousand
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: miles into the desert, which nobody had ever done before,
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: and being academic and clever, they mapped it and were accurate,
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: and they used the radio to communicate with Cairo. Their
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: went back there over distances you wouldn't even imagine. So
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: when the war started and the Italians were very active
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: in Libya and wanted to come into Egypt, Bagman suggested
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: to the head of command that he should perhaps form
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: a little group to go and create havoc. And it
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: was rejected twice. They said, O, you can't go out
• 19:18
  Speaker 5: in the desert. We can, we can be done it.
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: So in the air they did. And to start with
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: they were just doing road watch. So they'd go to
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: the middle of nowhere and watch the trucks come down
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: that way on the track that was linking Italian bases
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: and then count on going back and note that they
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: were lighter. And then they radio that back to Cairo
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: and say, twenty trucks go on south, twenty trucks long
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: all the time. So they built up a picture of
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: what the end they were doing. It's a fantastic story.
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: And then they got involved in some action and did
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: a few rates which were they look in from nowhere
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: and then disappeared. So they were called the Cohasta Troll
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: by the Attalic. Where did they come from? When the
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: desert and they come from? So we wanted to recreate
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: some of those routes that they did and where we
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: didn't find because they were known already. But the trucks
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: still out there upside down and blow that that we visited,
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: and we just think, yeah, we're here, We're looking at
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: the US.
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: And did the Long Range Desert Group actually used jeeps
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: at some point.
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: It was sort of Their truck was the Chef big
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: two wheel drive Chevy, which you think were but they
• 20:29
  Speaker 5: were lighter and they had big floatation tires on and
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: their drivers were still so they did and a lot
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: of us used two mil drives. You are't an idiot
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: for get stuff from. But then the sas sort of
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: came out of the Arrange Desert sterling. They did sterling.
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: There was more of an action man and that that
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: kind of sided with the launch of the jeep. So
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: the jeep was far more maneuverable, quicker, lighter, and could
• 20:54
  Speaker 5: be in and out. So that's so we weren't strictly
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: true having jeep, but don't get a ship. The GM
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: was perfect.
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: And I remember looking at the images and it looked
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: like they cut out quite a bit of a grill
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: to increase the airflow.
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: There's mixed theories, but a lot of people when the
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: pictures commuted, why did you cut the grill out? Do
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: your history. That's what they did, and I can't see
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: it made much difference to cool. But if you've taken
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: in a load of sand in a sandstall and that
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: that front pit is full of sand, you won't be
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: able to scoop it out. So that's one theory because
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: we did have a sandstorm and interesting did it didn't
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: fill but you could suddenly say, oh yeah, we can
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: scoop the sand out the range.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: Why did they have access to it?
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: Interesting?
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: We had a mesh actually over the rain data that
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: says stone damage. You couldn't see if it was painted black,
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: but the flesh stopped stones. You learned these things today experience. Yeah.
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: Sure, So let's talk about after the Long Range Desert Group.
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: What were some of the other trips that you did
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: into well, anywhere in the world that.
• 21:59
  Speaker 5: You've you just really loved. I think Libya will always
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: be my favorite. I was working with some good guys,
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: groups of archaeologists, and there was a project run by
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: Professor David Matting the Utest University, and he just said,
• 22:11
  Speaker 5: you found it coming out, we could do with the photography.
• 22:13
  Speaker 5: Who knows a little bit about the landroids. So I
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: pretended to be both and I've got away with it.
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: They had whole series three out there, broken down catastrophically
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: the year before seven. Because when you say to an
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: academic what was wrong with it, it's a bit of
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: bank any more details? Did it sounds like? Did it anyway?
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: We ascertained it. They have a couple of burnt out
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: slipping clutch and many of us went out with those
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: bits on it, and I flew out with them because
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: it was from Triple the airport close to the UK
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: becoming Flyers of the Empire. We all met up, got there,
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: took the thing apart. I was preticding to be a
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: mechanic as well at that time, so we did get
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: the agured out, put the new clutch on, took in
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: the head off, put the new valves in and it worked.
• 22:57
  Speaker 5: So I got to leave it and then we drove
• 22:58
  Speaker 5: it down for the desert. And then the next year
• 23:00
  Speaker 5: I thought, I'll bring mine. Yeah, it's better. So I
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: took my caravan about nine and I combined that. I
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: came back pretty late, so they came back via tunes
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: here and back. I went up to Triple and turned
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: right and went on to Cairo and to Jordan, Syria, Turkey.
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: So it's a big trick.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: How was how did you go from from Egypt into Jordan?
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: I took the ferry from Akaba, and what did you
• 23:27
  Speaker 5: think of Jordan? Well, it's it's very English, Mars and Spencers,
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: and the king is English educated with the English wife.
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: It was civilized. Syria less. And that was before I
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: was any.
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: Trouble because I was looking at a route that would
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: take me through through Jordan and then into northern Iraq.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: Can Northern Iraq is actually a better route than Syria?
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: Now? Sure? Yeahs it opened up.
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Northern Iraq it's starting to open up, genuinely. Wouldn't
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: that be amazing? You have written about land rovers for
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: fifty years and you've owned a few of them yourself.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: What's your favorite?
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: Well, I've owned them for fifty I've written about them
• 24:07
  Speaker 5: for thirty years. That's a long time, isn't it. It
• 24:10
  Speaker 5: only occurred to me this year. It's fifty years.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Since I bought my first one, and you still have
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: that one.
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: The year the eighty six six, no, I sold it
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: and I bought a VW. Be It's chief. And then
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: a friend of mine I bought a nineteen forty eight Lander,
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: Steve TK who I was a college so it is
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: last year college. He bought this forty eight. I thought,
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: you know, if i'd see another lumber and I wanted eighteenth.
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: I kept an eye. Sure enough, one prop we had
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: a magazine called an Exchange and Bar where everything was
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: ninety forty eight Lunder. It was in London. I was
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: in Salisbury College, so I called the Trade of them.
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: It was eighty five pounds, which was a lot in
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: nineteen seventy four. Dodge and I went into the bank
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: and I wanted to draw out cash. No, I had
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: nothing bank account. So in those days, if you write
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: out of check paid cash one hundred pounds, you know,
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: pushed it over there. So how would you like the
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: money missus Savage ten I walked out was one hundred
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: pounds over draw like that, but I caught the train
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: to London. The boards it and is absolutely freezing and
• 25:15
  Speaker 5: no heat, but I got it back away It's fine.
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: And then so that was April ninety two.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: Vinet to work really hard to get the bait feedback.
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I've always sort of put that to one side,
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: but I still got it. So that's that's the great thing.
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: I still have that same handover and it's still in use.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: And how many layer rivers do you have total?
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: Well, I'm thinking out about what four? Yeah, one more?
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: And you have like you know, like on Amazon you
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: can have a subscription to bring in you know, your
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: batamin c or whatever.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, oil combs in yah wow, yeah.
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: They need a bit. Yeah. Well, I have the two
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: ideas of the nineteen forty eight when on a hot
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: sunny day with the stream down, it's fantastic and hygen again.
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: And then I have the number of a caravag on
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: which I've had for twenty five years. That well, I've
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: done most of the trips so that's been to Libya,
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: I think seven or eight times, been to Algeria with
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: Chris Scott downs with Tunisia and the gyps and all
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: of Europe and Portugal and yeah, all of Europe. So
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: I've done a lot of probably one hundred thousand miles
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: of travel.
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: And if I remember that one, either it's permanently up
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: or it pops up. It pops up, but it has
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: two kind of absolute.
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's really very interesting. They were boat builders, so
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: that they thought we'll do this bespoke upmarket conversion. So
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: the top is the sheet Mangland does that. There's some
• 26:37
  Speaker 5: hinging wood. It's very good design. Last year I had
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: that all replaced Cross Fortune, but the wood you could
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: crumple it in the handle. Distry rot is from nineteen
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: seventy you know, since in the last twenty years it's
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: had a TDI engine discovery transfer bots, so it's far
• 26:54
  Speaker 5: as big alice wall into cooler so it's more powerful
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: in all this stuff old but at the time I
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: want speak needed to do expeditions. Sure, and it is
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: and it has a service earlier this year, so it's
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: ready to go in wherever it is. It's ready.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: And a special thanks to on X off Road for
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: helping to support this week's podcast. Going further on your
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: adventures is about having the right tools. The on X
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: off road apps, Intuitive maps make it easy to find
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: trails and disperse camping, and their offline maps give you
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: full GPS navigation capability without cell coverage. I'm also really
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: excited about their new route builder for planning and sharing
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: custom trips. It's got a snap to trail tool where
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: you can just drop points where you want to go,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: and a route automatically connects to the closest road or trail.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: You can build, save and add routes to folders, and
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: share your entire trip with your buddies. You can find
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: out more information on on xmaps dot com. You can
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: also find their apps in the Apple Store or whatever
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: other device that you use. Thanks again, on X.
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: Plan these trips and you've had all of these experiences.
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: When you look back on that, what were some of
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: the things that you learned? You know, like, as a traveler,
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: what would what advice would you give to a new traveler.
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: To use the Nike ter Just do it because I've
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: learnt that you don't really need much. I know you
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: needed these are going to Washtack. Really, you can go
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: in any car, you can go on a bus. You
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: can fly bus, taxi, hi, bicycle, you can do. You
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: don't have to have all I'm sorry you advertisers don't
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: have to have all the gear.
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: Well that's the advantage of what we do. We keep
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: our advertisers completely separate from our editor.
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, but it is good to have the kid
• 28:54
  Speaker 5: if you've got two weeks. If you have got two weeks,
• 28:57
  Speaker 5: you don't want to be faffing around getting stuck and
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: you want your beer cold out of the fridge. I
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: can understand that, and a bit of me is the same.
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: In the caravag and I have the fridge, I have
• 29:06
  Speaker 5: the winch, have to solar panels, I have to gear.
• 29:09
  Speaker 5: But the simplicity of the motorbike travel is you can't
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: take all. And then when I turned sixty, you will
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: find this. These these decades you feel you have to
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: do something to prove yourself to yourself. So I cycled
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: from here to my friend in Italy with a thousand
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: miles on a bicycle. Well, then you can't take anything,
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: and yet I didn't. I did a lot of camping,
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: so I had a lightweight tent, lightweight sleeping bag, some
• 29:34
  Speaker 5: nights in hotels, other nights camping.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: What did you think of traveling by bicycle?
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: How was that you were accepted by everybody because you're
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: not no insudation, no no, and oh can you fill
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: my bottle up with water? Yeah, of course yeah, and
• 29:49
  Speaker 5: they're happy to help. And if you're stopped in the
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: side of the road, people stopped so uka and say, yeah, yeah,
• 29:54
  Speaker 5: I haven't find play cures for stopping. But it's similar
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: on a motorbike. If you stopped on the bike somewhere,
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: other bikers stopped straight away and say are you all right,
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: which you don't get if you put this sort of
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: great wall of aluminium and glass between you.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: And that's very true.
• 30:09
  Speaker 6: And if you go even beyond that, up to the
• 30:11
  Speaker 6: big expedition vehicles like beuticats and the Unamogus and everything else,
• 30:16
  Speaker 6: and you're like another planet and people just have a
• 30:20
  Speaker 6: hard time relating to who even who you are, very
• 30:22
  Speaker 6: very intimidating.
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And in some of the places that we've all
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: traveled to, the poor places, you're projecting an image of
• 30:29
  Speaker 5: wealth and you know you're accessoriy probably costs his annual salary,
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: so you're going to be the target for theft. Really
• 30:39
  Speaker 5: hopefully not because most people are very honest. But you
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: just think you're sort of putting tweets in front of
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: the children.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Here.
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: Whereas my old caravan, and it doesn't look as it's
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: worth anything. It's got dense strategies. There's there's three size
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: the one I quite like it, like that. Two, I
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: can't feel doing about it anyway. Three it doesn't look
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: as I've got me money.
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: For sure, But you know, but it allows you to
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: travel freely. You're not and you're and if something happened
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: to the vehicle, you'd be sad, of course, but it
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: wouldn't be like losing a half a million pound expedition vehicle.
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and hear us in the States, people like to
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: borrow that. Yeah, you know, we go to shows and
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: we see something on displaying that much. By the end
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: of the weekend it's gone. It keeps the whole industry going.
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: So that's fine.
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: Well, And I think I think people making the modifications
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: that they find that they really need in order to
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: do their trip. And some things you need, you like
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: if you go into the high latitudes or if you
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: want to cross glaciers or whatever, you have to have
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: a certain piece of kid.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: If you go into the if you go into the desert,
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: it might benefit from some traction boards and things like that.
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and it's highly specialized, but for the most
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: part you just really don't need much.
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: When you see them. There's a range of sand dunes
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: in Libya which are a bit of a tourist places.
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: You go around three oases. It's beautiful, but the first
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: bit is a climb up through some soft sand dunes.
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: It's big, and you're in a little tea place at
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: the bottom watching people message up and all those drivers
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: with their tassy old toyotas on bull tires, you know,
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: they just go straight up, no problem. I have to
• 32:24
  Speaker 5: say I did it. But then you get to the
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: top and find there's a persia for five oh four
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: pickup is up there as well, on whatever tires it
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: happened to have, and you well, these locally knows the.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: Power of local knowledge. Yeah, they can read every grain
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: of sand.
• 32:41
  Speaker 5: Everything with huge skill. So I'm more for less than
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: more now.
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: And now that you look back on all of these
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: amazing journeys, Toby, how did it change you as a person?
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: How are you different today?
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: I think I'm far more accepting of other cultures. I
• 32:57
  Speaker 5: think if you don't travel and you stay in your
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: own city or country, you have this fear of all foreigners,
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: which is totally unfounded. I think travel reinforces that. It's
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: a big generalization, you know, I have You know, I've
• 33:13
  Speaker 5: been in Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Ethiopia, Guatemala,
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: a lot of lovely places, and I've met nothing other
• 33:21
  Speaker 5: than friendship and a smiling face. You smile at them,
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: they smile at you.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: For sure.
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: It's as simple as that. If you go in thinking
• 33:28
  Speaker 5: you're going to rob me, catch stab me, then you
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: have your defenses up, whereas if you go in with
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: a smile and that's stupid, help me. I can't think
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: of any occasion when I've felt uncomfortable crossing Serbia during
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: a ceasefire in nineteen ninety four. Would it be that
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: was a bit heavy because I've dropped to the border
• 33:48
  Speaker 5: and they've all got coct cos. I had the right documentation,
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: but I've showed them. They said, what's that? So it's
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: a map? I said, I'm going there, and they obviously
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: wanted to keep the map, you know, and they had
• 34:02
  Speaker 5: my passort and it was sort of sweaty and unshaven
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: military guy. Well, this is a bit serious passport, please,
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: so smile than it was very polite. Never lose your
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: temple there because otherwise you're there forever earlier. Did give
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: me a passport, and it was I was very relieved
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: to get over that bit of Nomad's land into Greece.
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: It wasn't the people, the people be find it was
• 34:26
  Speaker 5: the official, the military official. It was a bit iffy,
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: but nothing happened.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: Sure, So that's an interesting point in time.
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: So when you were on that side of the Adriatic, Yeah,
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: I was on the other side of the because I
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: was in the US Air Force and I was stationed
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: in San Vido in southern Italy during.
• 34:45
  Speaker 6: The whole slovidol Molossovich, the whole bar nice posting, it
• 34:50
  Speaker 6: was a nice posting.
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, we were both on and I was there
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety four.
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: So it's about the same time. Yeah, there had been
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: a seas file. It was just that window opportun Yeah,
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: to get across. I borrowed again landover lent me a
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: P thirty eight.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, fantastic.
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: One of the things that I love to ask in
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: the podcast is your favorite books? Are there anything like
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: any books that you've read, even if they're totally quirky
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: out in the middle of nowhere.
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: It was Ralph Bagnell's Trips through Libya that he wrote.
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: I think he must have ridden it just after The
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: Wall Travels in the Dead World or something, where he
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: was describing their trips across the Sinai and down into
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: the sand seat and I was reading that whilst traversing
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: that terrain in nineteen ninety nine. Incredible, and he'd be
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: writing about someone I think I'm there. Yeah. Yeah, so
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: that that work by Bagnold was really good.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: That sounds like a great one.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah. The fact that I've just remembered you remind me.
• 35:49
  Speaker 5: I lent it to Ben Stowe, who just landover work
• 35:52
  Speaker 5: up in Yorkshire. He's got it. It's not even mine.
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: It boils to Ruth telling and if you see this, Ruth,
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: I'll get it back. Yeah. That was definitely a great
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: book to read whilst they're Yeah, for sure.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: So what's next for you? What's next on your plan?
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: I think you have a bit of a change of
• 36:11
  Speaker 5: direction because the interest thing you can't avoid it, you know.
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: I'm not the land rover. The Caravagon is fantastic, but
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: everything's a bit heavier. Changing a wheel is heavy, Putting
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: the roof up with its soul pounds on, it's heavy.
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: It's easy to drive, but I'm thinking if I reached
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: the end of my time with this big, heavy land
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: rover at the moment, it's just a plan that might
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: happen this year, but I think I'll sell the bike anyway,
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: which was the plan anyway, sell the caravag and then
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: sell the Audi that's out here and buy a VW camp.
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: You can kind of fall the four on the Synchrome
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: with a good camper conversion and it's a lot of money,
• 36:46
  Speaker 5: but it be just so easy. Yeah, yeah, And I'll
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: still be able to do trips, but at forty miles
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: to the gallon seventy miles an hour, and it will
• 36:53
  Speaker 5: be lighter. Everything will be lighter. So it's still giving
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: into old age a bit, but I see it. There's
• 36:59
  Speaker 5: a new chapter, really, And you know when you buy
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: something you do you're a bit more keen to do things.
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: You buy a new camera, suddenly you take five thousand pictures.
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: You buy a new car, you drive all you buy
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: any motibike. You're out on it, so I need that stimulus.
• 37:14
  Speaker 5: So I'll keep the forty eight Landrone because that's part
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: of my life. But the Carragan, which I've had twenty
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: five years, I think it's days that are done really
• 37:23
  Speaker 5: because you know, this is someone someone else can use it,
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: someone else. It needs to be on a trick and
• 37:28
  Speaker 5: it's ready to go. Then I'll move that money into
• 37:32
  Speaker 5: the Volkswagen. It's sounds a bit boring and bits of granddaddish,
• 37:35
  Speaker 5: but you know, I'm not fourtygore nearly seventy and Ahilter,
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: I'm in pretty good Nick. Can I still be seeing
• 37:43
  Speaker 5: myself doing it? Eighty in the last ten years have
• 37:46
  Speaker 5: gone by like that.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so unboieable how fast it goes.
• 37:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, changes have to be made, and I think it's
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: better to be ahead of the game rather than behind it.
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: I saw an interview with Michael Kane and Olden where
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: it was Billy Conny and they're talking about drinking wine
• 38:02
  Speaker 5: and Billy Connors was this is probably twenty years ago.
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: It was quite big drink and Michael Parkers has said
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: to Michael, so well, how do you how are you
• 38:09
  Speaker 5: on drink? He said, well, I've cut right down. I
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: just have a couple of glasses a night, he said,
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: because I don't want to get to the stage where
• 38:16
  Speaker 5: the doctor says you've got to stop. So I'm a
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: bit like that. I don't want to doctor, you've got
• 38:22
  Speaker 5: to stop doing these trips, which I'd still do anyway.
• 38:24
  Speaker 5: But if I make the trips easier on me, then
• 38:28
  Speaker 5: I can carry on doing stuff.
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: I think that's a great lesson. Then it's it's also
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: the nature of life. We changed, sadly, it needs change.
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, you know you're still thinking it, but the
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: body is less able to do this.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:43
  Speaker 5: Having said that, we're off cycling around the vineyards of
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: Boodie next week.
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: That's how you're saying in good neck.
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I get an adequate to man of exercise.
• 38:53
  Speaker 5: You're always get more. But that's great.
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: Still, yeah, that's absolutely Now.
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: How do people find out more about your ventures? Well,
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: the books that you've been featured in, or.
• 39:04
  Speaker 5: A regular contributor to the classic rnner of a magazine,
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: which is the grumpy old blokes riding about rusty ol landovers.
• 39:10
  Speaker 5: But we have a good time and we're all mates,
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: and the magazine sells pretty well. But I've also started
• 39:14
  Speaker 5: building up a YouTube channel of films I've made over
• 39:17
  Speaker 5: the last thirty years and edit it down to a
• 39:19
  Speaker 5: very precise five minutes, so nothing too long. So it's
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: called I should be back on the tenth, which is
• 39:25
  Speaker 5: a sort of random date that I used to give
• 39:27
  Speaker 5: to wives in parts, meaning I might be back, yes.
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: You may or may not be there when you get back.
• 39:35
  Speaker 5: Funnily enough, they've all been pretty understanding. But the YouTube
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: channel is sort of growing very slowly. I don't push
• 39:43
  Speaker 5: it much, but it's good fun doing it.
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: So that the name of the YouTube channel is I'll
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: be back on the tent.
• 39:48
  Speaker 5: I should be back on the tent. Yeah. So if
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: you put that into you, yeah, perfect, it should come
• 39:54
  Speaker 5: up with a few Totally.
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: It's been such a pleasure to spend time with you.
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: It was great to go to the pub and catch up.
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: Your travels have been a great inspiration.
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: To me and so many others. The work that you've put.
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: Into Overland Journal, it's all incredible stories, and you know,
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: people can buy the back issues with your long Range
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: the Long Range Desert yeah, and other other stories that you've.
• 40:18
  Speaker 5: Done for us. Yeah, I did the Libyan stuff.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: That's right, and that was just fantastic.
• 40:23
  Speaker 5: Well, as I said earlier, I took a picture there
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: out in the desert. I knew you'd use it because
• 40:29
  Speaker 5: there was a sort of picture no one else would
• 40:30
  Speaker 5: use it at the carcase of a lamb hanging in
• 40:33
  Speaker 5: the foreground. It's just been started, like three days out.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: Sure, I love it.
• 40:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's been a great pleasure shop, and you've brought
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: out the memories that I've had been there.
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: Thank you very much, No, thank you, Toby, and we
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: thank you all for listening, and we'll talk to you
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: next time.