Latest / Graymalkin Lane the podcast / the Trial of Black Tom Cassidy! Featuring Robyn Moffat, Kevin Kiniry, Christian Smith, Daniel Wilson, and Num1cosplay!

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the Trial of Black Tom Cassidy! Featuring Robyn Moffat, Kevin Kiniry, Christian Smith, Daniel Wilson, and Num1cosplay! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

• 0:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Green Walken Lane podcast where queer friends and allies gather to review and discuss the original X-Men comics in continuity order.
• 0:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: Today we get to record my favorite episode of the month.
• 0:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: We're recording this on Memorial Day weekend, but it will release at the end of June, which will be a month surrounding a Black Tom Cassidy on Green Walken Lane.
• 0:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: I character I didn't know I had many opinions on, but now I'm kind of a fan, I think.
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: We're gonna talk all about them today.
• 0:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I have some super fans here with me to talk about this crazy character.
• 0:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: Let me do a brief introduction and I'll introduce you each.
• 0:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: In 1959, what Disney released the film, Darby O'Gill and the Little People, on the cover, a joyful couple waves as a dozens of leprechauns dance all around them.
• 0:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: Go look it up if you haven't seen it.
• 0:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: The tagline says, a touch or blarny, a heap or magic, and a load or laughter.
• 1:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: I heard a joke done by a stand-up comedian recently about paleontologists discovering the skeletons of Irish dinosaurs.
• 1:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's like, Taran Osaurus, Steg Osaurus, and Triceratop of the Mornin to you, and that's what this cover is given to me.
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: I keep all magic.
• 1:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's oh apostrophe.
• 1:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, this film with a few pretty delightful musical numbers and a ton of just painfully Irish stereotypical almost borderline offensive ridiculousness.
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: It tells the story of O'Gill who's a caretaker of a giant ancestral castle And he's hard on his luck as he deals with trippy tricky leprechauns and a weird good CGI ghost van she that shows up
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: In the film, the caretaker of the estate is the handsome Michael McBride played by a young Sean Connery surprise, and he's in love with Miguel's daughter, Katie, meanwhile in town, the rogue Pony Su-Gru, that's his name, wants Katie for himself.
• 2:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is the Black Tom character, and the job and the estate for himself as well.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's hard for me to believe that this movie did not influence the creation first of Shang-Chan Cassidy based on Irish stereotypes back in the early 60s books, but also for Banshee clearly, it is now the late 1970s and Banshee is the evil cousin to the Shang-Connery version of Banshee.
• 2:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's tried to take over the estate and he wants the inheritance, the castle, the woman, and also the daughter as well.
• 2:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: So there's just a bunch of little leprechauns living all over the place.
• 2:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: Did any of my jury have a chance to see this film?
• 2:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's wild.
• 2:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, it frightens me.
• 2:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: OK, OK, so the old man gets sucked into like the leprechaun world.
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: And the leprechauns, you have to trick them, right?
• 2:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: You have to like tackle them and trick them into giving up their gold.
• 2:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: so they have all these powerful spells and he basically tricks them into singing and drinking a lot.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: And the more they sing and the more they drink, the more he challenges them to sing and drink faster.
• 3:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: And there's a good like five-minute clip of like little, and so it's normal-sized people, but the camera lens is like zoomed in to make them look little.
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: And they're like dancing, it's super speed, it's like fast-forwarded, while they're wearing out.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's like the worst ADHD trip I've ever seen.
• 3:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: I did send you guys the clip of the Ghost Banshee though, and it's kind of amazing.
• 3:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely, so we'll watch again.
• 3:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's now my favorite thing on the internet well done well done.
• 3:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: None has feelings.
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am like what is happening right now?
• 3:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: Don't watch this film on Disney Plus in the background everyone if you would like I will never see it again.
• 3:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: I watch I show bad movies to my friends once a month in my house and this is not a movie I would show them.
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's it's bad, but interesting at a huge time capsule for the influence of these characters.
• 3:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay,
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, not only are we obsessed with films in the worlds of miniature people, right?
• 3:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: Wizard of Oz, Goaliverse Travels, the seventh voyage of Sinbad, Honey, I shrunk the kids, even in Marvel, Dr. Doom's Littleville, or characters like Ant-Man and the Adam.
• 4:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: But this is a tight, entire cringy and hilarious franchise of a leprechaun genre out there.
• 4:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: Of course, we go St. Patrick's Day, but there's also a bunch of horror films called Leprechaun has anyone seen a leprechaun horror movie?
• 4:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
• 4:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: There isn't a lot of Jen and I understand that we go.
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's where you're still.
• 4:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: We're claimed to fame being the first leprechaun or something.
• 4:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: In that film, the leprechaun pogo sticks someone to death.
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: They fall down.
• 4:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's on a pogo stick and he bounces up and down on their bodies until they die.
• 4:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: OK, there's also a film in the franchise called Leprechaun in Duhood.
• 4:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not joking.
• 4:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: OK, we're not here to talk about leprechauns or lucky charms.
• 4:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: But we are here to talk about rogues, scallywags, evil cousins.
• 4:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: intentions, not as handsome as our leading man in Sean Connery, but working behind the scenes for nefarious reasons.
• 4:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is curly from Oklahoma.
• 4:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's that genre of evil guy in the wings, right?
• 5:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: A shaleli is used to support.
• 5:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: uh, Black Tom, as he limps along, and they might draw your sympathy, but they will use it as a deadly weapon when your back is turned.
• 5:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: He has purple and black flowing robes, a red bat insignia on his chest, a waxed mustache that's giving me melodrama.
• 5:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's ready to tie you to the railroad tracks.
• 5:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: You have all these are all clues that there is a black brigand who is not the hero of this story.
• 5:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, unless you're the juggernaut.
• 5:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: So ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the trial of Thomas Cassidy on Grimmolk and Blade.
• 5:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm thrilled to be joined by a talented jury of Black Tom Superfans.
• 5:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: Let me welcome each one of you.
• 5:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: And let me have you share some of your early thoughts on Black Tom Cassidy.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: A Daniel Wilson welcome back to Grimmolk and Blade.
• 5:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: And top of the martin to you too, there, chat.
• 5:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry, I'm gonna not do an Irish accent ever again because all of Ireland will be up for my blood.
• 5:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello, back again.
• 5:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: Early's memory of Black Tom was probably from the 90s animated TV show where much likely accent I've just done his invention Irish accent, then not okay are they they're just not they're tried They did try, but it was the 90s we can forgive them.
• 6:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, always excited to be back.
• 6:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
• 6:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: Have a me it's great to see you.
• 6:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: Number one welcome back as well.
• 6:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi.
• 6:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 6:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: So my early as Black Tom, well, how do I probably have to be the anime to show them?
• 6:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then I got into the comics and then, of course, with Aurora's, you know, joining the team.
• 6:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: One of their big first fights is with Juggernaut and with Black Tom at the castle.
• 6:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, this weirdo is so weird.
• 6:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and more recently in the Cricut stuff gotten to appreciate the character a little bit more.
• 6:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And welcome to Christian Smith as well.
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, my friend.
• 6:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hello.
• 6:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not gonna try and Irish accent because I'll just sound and end up sounding like chief of bribe or something.
• 6:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, just get depressing.
• 6:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: You're gonna, you're gonna give us misses doubt fire as a result.
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: Story of my life.
• 6:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, Black Tom's one of those weird ones.
• 6:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's always been around.
• 6:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the first time I ever really recognized or noticed him was, got on it, be those really early exercises.
• 7:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: in the trite center.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was just, yeah, he's blacked home.
• 7:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: Wild wild character, and that's also my first introduction to the character too, right?
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: Evil Villain obviously, lots of camp, lots of silly.
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: And Kevin Canary is here in literal black-tomb cosplay.
• 7:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: You're adorable, Kevin.
• 7:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm allowed to do that because my nationality is partially Irish, so all of my Irish listeners please forgive me.
• 7:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's not offensive in any way.
• 7:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: I swear I lucky charms too, so both ways I'm covered.
• 7:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: I fell in love with Black Tom, probably through the comic books first because I started reading X-Men in the 80s and at the time they were also issuing classic X-Men where they were reprinting some of the early Claremont stuff and so I actually got them right at the beginning of his like kind of appearances there, like not his first appearances, but there and I just was like this sexy guy with this black facial hair and fashion, he looked so cool to me.
• 7:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: I loved his big shallaley all of it.
• 7:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello, my name is Robin Muffer and you may know me best as the voice of Black Tom Cassidy on the script readings here at Grey Malcolm Lane.
• 8:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I am so excited to be talking to you all about Black Tom Cassidy today.
• 8:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is a weird guy.
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I got into comics when I was a little bit older.
• 8:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was in my 20s.
• 8:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd always love to explain growing up at what's cartoon.
• 8:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: But
• 8:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: I saw him here there and never really made much sense of him.
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: He just seemed like vanries weird gay cousin, then I read a little thing called X-Force by Benjamin Percy and was like, this guy is weird to sin I am so intrigued by him.
• 8:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: I then ended up reading generation X from the 90s and a fell in love with Black Tom's just absolutely psychotic almost Joker-esque
• 8:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: madness.
• 8:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is a really fascinating character who's gone on such a wonderful arc in having fresh metham at the end of it, then seeing him sort of in the middle of the worst of it, really intrigued me to learn more about this character.
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm so excited to dive into it with everyone today.
• 9:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: Now for long time listeners of my voice, you will understand there is a running unintentional gag on my show where any accent I try will go vaguely Irish at the end.
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: I used to do acting, I used to do a lot of like musical theater and in college I was in a play that was an indie show you've never heard of.
• 9:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: goodness.
• 9:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: West side of the moon was the name of the show.
• 9:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: It was a Mormon school, and I played the Irish hero who died.
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: I was not the Black Tom character.
• 9:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: I was the best friend, but I did work with a formal dialect coach and learned Irish.
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: This was also like 25 years ago.
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: So my voice will kind of naturally go to that accent regularly on my show, which we talked about in the
• 9:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom was an interesting character for me to try to wrap my brain around.
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: At first, he was a hard guy for me to have sympathy for.
• 9:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's easier to view his band she's cousin, or juggernaut's quote unquote best friend.
• 10:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: There are three distinct errors of the character under three different writers if I'm oversimplifying.
• 10:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: He is the over-the-top operatic villain, written by Chris Claremont, who puts all of the major storybeats in place for this character.
• 10:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: His rivalry with Sean, his relationship with Teresa, his deep loyalty to Kane, his streak of cruelty, and the tragic love story then later gets added by Fabian Niseza in the second era.
• 10:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: where Tom is sick and dying, and juggernaut is doing everything he can to save his boyfriend.
• 10:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: And Fabian has been very public about the fact that this was very much in AIDS or HIV's story in this era of comics.
• 10:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: Then we have the third era of Black Tom, and perhaps the most prominent because we get multiple issues in a row in a primary title, which has been Percy doing X-Force on Cracola,
• 10:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: where Black Tom is the sage on the team, he's the living interface between Cracola and the team, getting involved in secret CIA missions with X-Force.
• 11:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: And everything he says is over the top.
• 11:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: He is dialogue.
• 11:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: We've had a daily Black Tom chat, everybody, and I've been sending messages.
• 11:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: Number one, sorry, you weren't part of that.
• 11:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's been going for months, but we've been looking at like the dialogue that Percy wrote in this character's mouth that it's truly crazy.
• 11:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: So reading everything from his perspective over a 50 year history was really interesting as I tried to figure out how to make this character work.
• 11:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom Cassidy knows that he's the antagonist.
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: He knows he is not a good person, and he kind of just revels in it.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's kind of Joan Crawford in a weird way in my brain, that category of camp.
• 11:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: riches and yachts and women on his arm and fancy clothes and fine food and his best buddy juggernaut at his side.
• 11:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's one read.
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's villainy for the thrill of villainy.
• 11:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: But another read on the character is that he, much like Mara McTaggart, wants to wear shun skin.
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: And yes, that was a deep reference for all of you.
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's so deeply envious of Sean that he wants it all.
• 12:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: He wants the estate, the love of May, the loyalty of Theresa.
• 12:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: He is the lesser, right?
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's the King's second son who wants everything that the oldest is in heriting in a lot of ways.
• 12:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: And you can kind of read that as queer.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: You can also read it as jealous.
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: If you've listened to Connor Goldsmith talk about this character, he into its The Tom has kind of a lust for Sean, which is interesting.
• 12:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: A more sympathetic read shows Tom to be deeply misunderstood, loyal to those he has chosen in a very found family way, although he's definitely willing to manipulate them to his own ends.
• 12:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's the lead in mommy dearest, right?
• 12:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: But he also fucking loves a caper.
• 12:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: He loves a bank robbery, the seizing of a castle, a murder contract, a hostage negotiation.
• 12:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it thrills him and then when he's cornered, a darker side of this character comes out.
• 12:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: And when you read him that way, he suddenly becomes a lot of fun.
• 12:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: His history isn't so complicated or convoluted.
• 13:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's kind of defined by his relationships.
• 13:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: He was the fancy gentleman who envied his cousin Sean.
• 13:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: They both loved Maeve, but Sean won her.
• 13:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: Maeve died after giving birth, but Sean was gone.
• 13:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: So Tom raised the girl Theresa as his own, even though she also always called him uncle.
• 13:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: At some point, Sean and Tom fought, and Tom was hurt, resulting in him getting a limp initially.
• 13:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: He ended up in prison where he meets Cane Marco, but also Cane will talk about how he was involved in helping raise Theresa at the same time, so the red caught of it all is a little bit tricky, because Cane, I don't know, Cane may have ended up
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, came couldn't have ended up in prison before his first appearance because he was buried under the earth, right?
• 13:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: So like this is some time after his attack on the X-Men that he meets this man.
• 13:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: Upon their release from prison, they go to take over Shons of State, the Shons off adventuring with the X-Men, Tom murders and enslaves and builds a dungeon full of death traps.
• 13:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: And this is the adventure where we first meet him.
• 13:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: But let me hear some of your thoughts on wrapping your brain around Tom Cassidy.
• 14:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: And what makes him work as a character for you here?
• 14:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so I don't know.
• 14:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's like you said there's so many different sort of like eras in which you can look at him.
• 14:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I think you're right in saying that there's sort of those three phases.
• 14:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think you've got the very climb on the in theatrical sort of more ha ha of it all, which is the simplest sort of version when to stand I think because that's what a lot of the villains at that time were.
• 14:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: They had to have that sort of level of, you know, over the top, the calm, the theatrical.
• 14:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: and then you sort of swing it back to where he is now sort of post-quickoy or in the Quacoanie or even.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's also very interesting taken it because that theatricality is still there, but it's played more for laughs.
• 14:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not that evil sort of thing.
• 14:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's almost like oh wait, I finally got a purpose.
• 14:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: So I think that's the thing.
• 14:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's like you've sort of got these two end points that are similar but different ends of the spectrum.
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: And then you've got everything in between which is sort of the lead-up to it.
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's fascinating.
• 14:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's really interesting.
• 14:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I love that too.
• 14:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a great point because I do feel like he started as kind of a caricature, you know, a plot point and then has become something more interesting in that journey, but I love a good cheesy, you know, 80s plot point idea where he's the evil.
• 15:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: Relative, literally with the twirling mustache and he's all black versus the good relative that's all like light and bright.
• 15:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I think he serves a great purpose especially in that simplified version of the 80s, but I do think he's grown and right-pinned into something a little bit more nuanced and gives writers future writers something more to play with than just he's this guy who's always trying to kill the X-Men.
• 15:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: Hey, he grows.
• 15:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's a tree sometimes.
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: So he he does have that that kind of growth thing.
• 15:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: Christian thoughts on the John Crawford comparison.
• 15:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I saw it as I was reading that, but I'll admit here, I've been watching a lot of Melrose place recently.
• 15:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the first thought was, he's Michael Mancini.
• 15:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's the evil bastard who, yeah.
• 15:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the real, as he gets into the 80s, he's suddenly turns into sinned a Sydney.
• 16:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, he wants to be a, he wants to be Jade.
• 16:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: He wants everything that Jane has.
• 16:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was just, oh my god, why don't we realize that?
• 16:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: He becomes so much more trash.
• 16:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: I love that you're associating with Nova's place.
• 16:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: That's so that warms my heart.
• 16:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: We are, we are of a certain age except for no one who is much younger than the rest of us.
• 16:20
  [UNKNOWN]: I think.
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: Nam, do you have thoughts on the shalyly?
• 16:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: At first, like when I was much younger, reading this, I was like, I don't know what this thing is, whatever, like do for you kid.
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And now I'm like, okay, like it makes sense for him to have it.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I feel like it also adds to like the character or the character character of him just existing.
• 16:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, he needs a little bit of a prop, you know, being such a massive theater nerd that he is.
• 16:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so, like, I think it just adds to his overall, like, stick that.
• 16:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: Makes sense.
• 16:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: He blessed things out of his wood.
• 16:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, we have to make the joke at least once, right?
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, it's, it's kind of crazy.
• 16:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: The, the idea that he received or was like the title black, right?
• 17:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: You get the black sheep or like the black member of the family, not referring to skin color, obviously,
• 17:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: more to intention.
• 17:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: And he's adopted that, like he's made that his code name.
• 17:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: You almost wonder where he was first called that.
• 17:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot about this man's childhood that I want to know.
• 17:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: We don't know whose parents are.
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: We don't know much about his connection to Sean or the castle outside of the brief stories where we see him full of envy.
• 17:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: Kevin, as a Black Tom cosplayer, do you have thoughts on the look?
• 17:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: The red back, the black cape.
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's so good.
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: Now I will say though, so I did dress up once at the uncanny experience.
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like kind of the gala version of Black Tom.
• 17:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: So it was more of a coat.
• 17:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: And it had the nice little red bat on it.
• 17:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: And people thought I was dressing as horded-back from Heenan.
• 17:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: So he does have a little bit of a branding problem where his red bat may be a little confusing.
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: But I love it.
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: He was their first, I believe, a little bit first.
• 17:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: And there's something about his look.
• 17:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: He always feels very dapper in the best way possible, even when it's a skin-tight little outfit, he has the cool boots, or he has the high collar.
• 18:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: Anybody who has pop a collar and can pull off a popped collar, I think, is a star.
• 18:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: So that, and anytime your facial hair is the main part of your look, I'm a fan.
• 18:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have never explained why the back because it makes sense.
• 18:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's just dramatic.
• 18:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's dramatic, you're right.
• 18:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think back to Nums, it's a theater kid.
• 18:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's a theater kid.
• 18:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love the visual of like 14-year-old gay Black Tom with like his little design book.
• 18:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: And he's like, ooh, this is what I'm going to wear when I grow up.
• 18:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know what, I mean, like, that's cute to me.
• 18:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, we got to go to classic X-Men 16, which will eventually do a script read about my show when we get there.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: Years ago in Ireland is the backup story.
• 18:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: It a world racked by complex politics and bombings.
• 18:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: People acting as counter-revolutionaries as they seek to free Ireland from British control and people taking sides in all of that, ranging from cops to politicians to churches, people doing dark things, making dark intentions and alliances and other people just trying to survive.
• 18:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot of complicated history, not taking any sides,
• 19:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: Sean has almost arrested in this backup story when a mysterious blonde woman on a motorcycle rescues him and in turn his mutant powers save her when they get off a cliff.
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: And this is Maeve Roark in really the only true appearance we get of her.
• 19:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: There's a couple of other little flashback moments.
• 19:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: In the subsequent years, Tom and Sean Cassidy, who are rogue-ish cousins with a deep rivalry between them, compete over maves affections, and I am uncomfortable.
• 19:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: We won't spend a lot of time on this, but maves connections to like the IRA and political bombings.
• 19:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: There's just too many characters in this era of comics who are Irish and origin, who that's their whole thing, and it becomes uncomfortable at a certain point.
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: We see a moment where Sean says, land and keep have been in me family for as long as we've lived in these parts.
• 19:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: Farther back, I'm told in there are records.
• 19:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: And Tom says, we possess the title, the honors, the bills and the debts, proud and noble.
• 19:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: The Lord's Cassidy may be, but also perpetually broke.
• 20:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: And suddenly these characters give me down to Abby, but in Ireland, right?
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's the big giant estate that can't really afford to last anymore.
• 20:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: Sean thinks of Tom in one panel, Carst Tom, Lucky Tom, Black Tom with his Oxford manners in the Devil's Charm.
• 20:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: I always feel like such a country lump compared to him, and there's history, it seems, of Tom stealing whoever Sean is dating.
• 20:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: Which I love.
• 20:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: So, Maeve dates them both, with Sean, it's easy smiles and country music.
• 20:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: With Tom, it's a formal way and opera's in place and she grows bored with high society and ideally kind of being his arm candy, I suppose.
• 20:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: But they all become inseparable over the years.
• 20:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's, you know, Harry Rod and Hermione.
• 20:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: Snowball fights, nights out at the dances and one night, Sean is injured in a car accident
• 20:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: So Tom lies to her, she didn't show up but he takes her out dancing.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: But it's that night she realizes she doesn't love him.
• 20:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom has a moment of heart and releases Maeve telling her the truth.
• 21:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: She calls him her truest friend and then leaves to find Sean instead.
• 21:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's kind of all of the backstory that's added by the time we get to Fabian D.C.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
• 21:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dang it.
• 21:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's such an interesting kind of scenario where there's like this recognition that like sometimes love isn't you know romantic and so there's a lot of difficulty like navigating that especially like when you spend so much time with another person.
• 21:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have conversations with my girls all the time about like is this romantic love is this like platonic are you putting your emotions on the potential for something or you really looking at the reality of it and I think that for Tom at least the frustration the anger the resentment might come from like the loss of potential I think that for him there is so much that he wanted out of it.
• 22:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, they connected well, they were friends, but it's really hard seeing someone who you care so much for, not choose you.
• 22:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: There's a there's a political conversation here to be had.
• 22:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: I did the Downton Abbey comparison.
• 22:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
• 22:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: You have one member of the family who's going to exploit and tax everyone and take everything.
• 22:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is the Prince John narrative or the Donald Trump narrative.
• 22:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: or you get leader who's going to work with the people and give them rights and status and be at their side, which is there's all kinds of references, but the King Richard reference or Matthew from Down Nabby.
• 22:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: Do we have thoughts on kind of the privilege and status of these characters?
• 22:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: Danny, do you want to comment on this one?
• 22:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: Your posh.
• 22:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm posh.
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely not.
• 23:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
• 23:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: I am getting that from Chad actually.
• 23:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't actually talk like that.
• 23:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: No, so the privilege in the state is it's a difficult one because again it's that sort of you're looking at who the lens of what American writers thought things will like over in Europe at the time.
• 23:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think we discussed it briefly on the night crawler one as well where it's sort of that thing of like, well you have land you must be like must be like owning the locals as well and that's not really the case.
• 23:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not really how it
• 23:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: You do get that vibe, don't you, where you've almost got like Banchi who's living that more simple sort of like wanting to have that sort of country life.
• 23:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: You just want it quite nice and easy.
• 23:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: And then you've got Tom who's like, no, no, I will float my privilege.
• 23:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: I will float my status kind of thing.
• 23:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: And again, it just, it speaks to more of who the core of the person, the core of who the character is.
• 23:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: That thing of like always thinking that he, he almost deserves more than he's getting.
• 23:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: If that makes sense.
• 23:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think that does make sense.
• 23:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then we also have the queer read on this character.
• 23:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Christian, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
• 23:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: If we read this as he's the gay guy who's enjoying heistest diet, society, and wants to fit in, and is jealous of Tom forever.
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: They're our Sean for everything.
• 24:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: Then we read the Mae Relationship quite differently, because she's like the gay best friend, as Nums that different kinds of love, right?
• 24:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and also, at that time, not wanting to be out and
• 24:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: hiding here is what's the easiest way to go after what you're privileged and some cousin brother whatever he has got you know it's so much easier to last after some what someone else wants rather than address yourself or your own feelings are and going after me you've made a lot more sense you know she's aware of the family she knows everything and by doing this he also pisses off short so he doesn't have to deal with it.
• 24:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: Alright, now we're going to jump to X4's number 30.
• 24:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is one of the first comic books I've ever purchased.
• 24:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: If you guys recall, my first X-Men issue ever was X4's number 27.
• 24:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: So this was a very young Chad picking up these books and imprinting on them.
• 24:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: The story is called Cry Uncle.
• 24:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: Warpath is looking over photos of the upbringing of Teresa Cassidy.
• 25:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: The daughter that Tom never knew he or that Sean never knew he had.
• 25:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: their school photos, she has stark red hair, and one image we see Tom holding the newborn Theresa, he's her second cousin.
• 25:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's meeting with Kevin Donigan, the reporter, the Cassidy Klanis full of secrets Jimmy says Theresa, old grudges, ancient feuds, led to more than a share of tragedy in the past.
• 25:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: He notes how Tom always dressed up, always had a beautiful girl on his arm, a charmer, but always with style, Sashan.
• 25:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: But the girl he actually loved, may have rock married, Sashan.
• 25:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom was his best man.
• 25:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom justified to cane.
• 25:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: We'll talk about that in a minute.
• 25:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: He started committing crimes, quote, trying to prove that Maeve was right and chosen Sashan over him.
• 25:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's that thing if I didn't win the girl and it caused me to pick a life of crime.
• 25:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: If she didn't pick me,
• 25:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if I like that read, but when Maeve died, Sean was gone and Maeve left behind a baby.
• 25:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: They always said the casities were cursed and here was the proof, tragic love, young death.
• 26:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: When Sean returned months later, Tom was going to tell him about Teresa, but Sean blamed Tom for everything and hit Tom with a sonic scream.
• 26:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's how Tom ended up needing a cane for his limp, you know.
• 26:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: So Tom let himself believe that Sean was dead and raised Theresa as his own.
• 26:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: When Sean busted Tom sending him to prison, Theresa was away at boarding school, kept a secret, and in prison Tom met Caine.
• 26:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: Theresa reflects on her own upbringing, how she always called Tom uncle, though he was her dad's cousin.
• 26:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: Theresa believed that she was an orphan growing up.
• 26:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: She started drinking at the age of 12 to cope and that is a big part of this character is her struggles with alcoholism and PTSD.
• 26:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom was arrested for black market market tearing.
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: So black Tom imprisoned for five years and Theresa never went to see him once in jail.
• 26:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: Never went to his trial.
• 26:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: She blamed herself for Tom's crimes.
• 26:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: In this issue, we see a sick Tom and a drunk and depressed Theresa meet at the grave of her mother, Mae.
• 27:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: And this is when Tom has AIDS, basically, right?
• 27:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: We're going to get to that in a minute.
• 27:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom says, I did the best I could girl and Theresa says, well, perhaps it was not good enough.
• 27:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: What kind of life did you make for us, Tom?
• 27:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: Did you ever ask yourself that?
• 27:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: I have more times than I can count.
• 27:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: You lied to me my entire life.
• 27:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: About my father and more about yourself.
• 27:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: You tried to turn me down the same miserable road, you were traveling.
• 27:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: Then you thought that you could redeem yourself.
• 27:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: By telling me, I had a father, I never knew Tom says, I'm the one who held you after your stripes create your knee or lost a toy.
• 27:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: I wiped your tears away, girl.
• 27:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: And she says, you kept my father from me, Tom.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: He told me I didn't exist.
• 27:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: How do you think that makes me feel?
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: I remember all you've said, Tom, and I could cry for two of it for the two of us.
• 27:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: tenderness there was and then when I look at you at Black Tom Cassidy I wonder if I ever really knew you at all Tom says it's not my fault I turned out the way I did child and if you read this is gay again and he's got AIDS this is a crazy story she's a stop at Tom not your it's if it's not your fault and who's was it you always blamed everyone else but yourself Tom my father my mother for dying
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: Where are you going to stand accountable for your own mistakes?
• 28:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: You blamed my father when Maeve chose him over you.
• 28:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: I sometimes think he blamed me for holding you back, keeping you tied down.
• 28:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then I look into your eyes and I see my uncle who checked my closet each night for the bulge man.
• 28:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: There are things I hate about Utah'm Cassidy, but heaven helped me, I love you too.
• 28:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom says, I know Teresa, and if it matters, I do blame myself for one thing.
• 28:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: And what's that, Tom?
• 28:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: For not having raised you to be happy.
• 28:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: And Theresa says, that's odd.
• 28:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't blame you for that at all, Tom.
• 28:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: For that one, I blame myself.
• 28:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: This doesn't have to be our lifetime, you know?
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: The one choice he made after my mother died to not tell Sean about me was the wrong choice.
• 28:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: And like any choice, it had its consequences.
• 28:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: He never could have first seen.
• 28:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: I could have loved you both, my father and my cousin.
• 28:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: I could have been the very thing that brought you both together again.
• 28:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: Instead, you made me the focal point in your foolish feud, and ever since he made that choice, you've run and hidden from life and pulled me along with you.
• 29:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: You didn't mean to do it, I know, but I'm not going to hide me more.
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if I can help you, Tom, if you don't want to help yourself, but I also can't front you for the mistakes he made.
• 29:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: then turn around and repeat them myself.
• 29:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: It stops here and now Tom for both of us.
• 29:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, okay.
• 29:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is so beautifully written and giving so much context to these characters that we've needed.
• 29:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: Robin, I know you are a siren super fan in your way.
• 29:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you want to talk about your thoughts on the connection between Teresa and Tom?
• 29:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: The second that you've just read is when it really stands out to me.
• 29:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Coming from Celtic background myself, I may not be Irish, but I'm Scottish,
• 29:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Deadbeat dads and deadbeat father figures are not an uncommon thing.
• 29:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's something I have had in my own life with my own father.
• 29:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's something that a lot of us in Celtic backgrounds grow up with a lot of men have very still-toed emotional relationships are not very good at imparting that on to their children.
• 29:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: It creates a lot of strange relationships and seeing it just lead out
• 29:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: This specific segment is so interesting because it's a conversation that I and so many kids in my generation.
• 30:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a conversation we will never actually get to have with those father figures in our lives and being able to address the way that not only they messed up but the way that we end up marrying that because we pick up on what they've taught us.
• 30:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's really cathartic to see someone
• 30:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the fact that she has not just one, not two, but the re-father figures in her life in all of them had made mistakes.
• 30:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's, yeah, it's just it's really nice to see a character who has made as many mistakes as she has have a chance to really just be in the right.
• 30:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's amazing.
• 30:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I think the message we've just looked at is sums that up so succinctly.
• 30:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love Teresa.
• 30:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think she definitely has been through a lot, not just with, you know, our hauls and then the family stuff, but also like later as a superhero, anyone who's willing to kind of entertain Deadpool as questionable morals.
• 31:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Innocence for this, I think that family is very challenging to navigate even healthy relationships.
• 31:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: and so I think that knowing all of these moving parts and being pulled away and sent away from her family and not being able to make connections with people that care about her and having to find family I think really shapes her as a as a person as a hero and later when I got to like dive into her more recent stuff it's like oh all of these things all of these like problems all of these decisions that she made all come from this these core moments for her these very
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so, when she has to go through even more staff and ex-factor, and then later on on Croco, it's like, oh, well, I see the Cassidy curse is really really like we had.
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: You can see this relationship explored in some modern interpretations.
• 31:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: There's like a couple of infinity comics where it's like Sean versus Tom at the at the estate, but then Teresa comes in and is like, you're both my dads.
• 31:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: We can all get along and there's like a found family connection to it all.
• 31:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: We have to talk about the Tom Kane relationship, however.
• 32:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I could have done a big treaties on this.
• 32:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: I have a lot of thoughts on it, but I've recorded some of this concept on Michelle already, including the trial of Juggernaut.
• 32:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: They met in prison.
• 32:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: Kane was the abused stepchild, whose parent is dead, whose stepbrother inherited his estate.
• 32:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: two of a certain effect, right?
• 32:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like are you all with me on that read?
• 32:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom and Kane then have a very interesting throughline as there's the sibling slash cousin figure who's the good one and there the bad one.
• 32:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: Kane made a deal with a devil and it has now become this revenge driven monster with the retcon of it all he's committed a genocide by this point but if we just go early 60s he stomps across the planet to get revenge on the X-Men and
• 32:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: And now suddenly, his adventures change.
• 32:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's rarely the revenge guy.
• 32:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's instead usually like, oh, I have to commit a caper because Tom is bored.
• 32:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, it's Tom's birthday.
• 32:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: I better steal something.
• 32:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, Tom wants to rob a bank.
• 32:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's go rob a bank.
• 32:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's where a lot of Tom wants me to kidnap Madame Webb.
• 33:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: Adam Webb.
• 33:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: So there's a lot of interesting stories about Tom just wanting hijinks and then at a key point their relationship changes to Tom getting the legacy virus or the the shot with the machine and then grafted with all the wood stuff on him, right?
• 33:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's the AIDS allegory and now Kane is suddenly doing everything he can to commit crimes to get support.
• 33:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom then has an era where he becomes that crazy wood monster who is coming after Kane who's joined the X-Men and it's like ex-boyfriend's fighting and then the more modern read by Ben Percy where Tom is like having a little dream on cracoa where he's like, oh stop, could tickling the Kane and then he wakes up or where juggernaut is like a very affectionate with Tom Tom's like, you can come to the island anytime and Kane's like, yeah, but I want you to invite me.
• 33:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: So there's certain writers that are very in on the joke, and others that I don't think have ever thought about it once, but we can't ever quite make these villains queer.
• 33:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: They are clearly queer, and I think that everyone has written it as such, whether they know they were writing it or not.
• 34:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I don't think it's really just putting it through a lens and forcing it and do it.
• 34:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's very much there.
• 34:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: Even back to these original like, you know, 70s, 80s comics, where clearly they're like this weird couple that have adopted Teresa and are like kind of trying to raise her.
• 34:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: But like gay parents would, they're also like pushing her into the spotlight.
• 34:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: So they're a little mama rose and they're like maybe putting her into too many little baby pageants.
• 34:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: And she doesn't really want to do it.
• 34:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's what she's, you know, kind of a little resentful later.
• 34:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: It is clearly that kind of relationship.
• 34:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I think even
• 34:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: I do think just to add really quickly the timeline of this though is if we're putting this in continuity I think Kane would not have met Teresa until she was like 17 so she's in the boarding school While Tom's in prison for five years.
• 34:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's ideally where she where he met Kane?
• 34:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: Not saying they actually put her in a pad.
• 34:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no, I just I just have to market in my brain because the idea that Kane was involved in her upbringing I think like it's it's my dad's boyfriend now
• 35:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: But there is a coming out that mutants have that are is later in as Adelaide since then a regular child would have and so I do think he is there at a very Formative point for her life where mom got boyfriend in prison got out of prison brought his prison boyfriend home and then introduced it to his ally
• 35:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then they're like, let's go on these fun capers and by the way, we're gonna teach you how to be a better Banshee than Banshee.
• 35:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: She in her first initial, like, launch has more versions of Sonic Power than he has ever done.
• 35:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so did they make her better?
• 35:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe they pushed her a little too hard.
• 35:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe he's like gay extra parents.
• 35:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: They were pushing, you know, too much.
• 35:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: But I think it's definitely there in the writing.
• 35:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think their love for each other is more than just two, like, thugs that are like doing crime together.
• 35:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm really a gay, I'm doing crime.
• 35:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm ruling it canon as the judge for the remainder of this trial.
• 35:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: We will understand that these two are common law husbands.
• 35:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: And so any prosecutions and defenses should take that into account.
• 36:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Correct.
• 36:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, I'm just obsessed with the idea of, you know, how you meeting this girl who's 17 and turning this picture, this fructive gulf girl into a patch and queen, like something out of Julia is just in sight.
• 36:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: They go to like a dazzle concert together.
• 36:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly it.
• 36:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's how they bonded.
• 36:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it's so exciting to it where it was pretty much just written that they were a cup, you know, Fabian was writing the music up and partly wasn't going back thinking, well, am I just putting this on what I'm reading of the early stuff?
• 36:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you're right, it's there from the very early things, you know, Thomas and Ableen came, but he's also tempering him as well, and came to go from these insane destructive power fantasies to basically bankruptries and stealing
• 36:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it brings him down, but it makes Tom more rounded as well in that he's not just the wicked cousin he's he's got a family he has his own priorities and that's
• 37:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: who he would die and move for.
• 37:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, you look at where he goes later on, you know, things he does to be able to get a few more months, a few more years to be with his daughter, to be with his husband.
• 37:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everything comes from that one central relationship, not the relationship with Sean.
• 37:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he think, well, Sean was only in X-Men for what less than two years before they wrote him out.
• 37:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, by the time we get this issue of X-Force,
• 37:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Theresa's been in X for as long as the show was in X been and you just think well, how much more relationship focus do you get if Sean at the time round?
• 37:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is one of the two years before generation X. Yeah, that's never never really covered in generation X.
• 37:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a few stories but to be on Sean's never my character generation X.
• 37:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's, you know, as much as we want to inspire, he looks hot, please, not a main character in there.
• 37:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it doesn't get the back stories, which means the Tom never gets back stories.
• 37:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's only until Krakawa went home is a protagonist, not just a part of someone else, that we start to see some interiority for him.
• 38:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, we got to talk about Tom's powers.
• 38:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom's basic mutant power is to fire concussive energy blasts through wood.
• 38:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, it's always as shaly, which sometimes is like a few feet long and sometimes is like a whole like walking staff, right?
• 38:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: But he fires it through the wood and he can't fire it without the wood.
• 38:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: We've never seen him do that.
• 38:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: Eventually, during the World Trade Center thing, he gets really badly hurt and the scientists who worked on Deadpool graft would into his body.
• 38:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: It kind of becomes a secondary mutation at a certain point.
• 38:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: So now he's kind of like a cyborg except with wood parts, right?
• 38:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: So now he has wooden hands and like a wooden eye, and he's like slowly mutating.
• 38:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: Then he kind of gets like a little bit of a drooled,
• 38:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: like space he like wears big robes and he's the plant guy with the with the big wood stick which then quickly changes in hint into him going full plant monster.
• 38:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's uh he's if you guys know the character plant man who I have an episode out on he goes into full like i'm a living tree kind of thing.
• 39:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's creating clones out of wood.
• 39:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is where the mondo character clone comes from.
• 39:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's creating little like habitats under the Earth to send people to.
• 39:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's becoming the tree monster, where it's like jagged spikes of trees, impailing children on the Xavier lawn.
• 39:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's literally facing a tree at a certain point.
• 39:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: the cracoa era we get him in his like very I'm communing with like cracoa is almost like taking possession there's like a fusion between him and cracoa almost like we would see like between Doug and Warlock.
• 39:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: There's like he's interfacing he's like wearing a cerebral hat of like tree-tack and like communing through the green which again is another thing we see the character plant man do.
• 39:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, to use a sort of D&D metaphor really, you start a very warlock coded, multi-classes it drew it, and then just becomes a shambling mound.
• 39:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: And so, you know, it's a very, very strange sort of like evolution really, but at another point you sort of think like, you know, Black Tom as a character in and of itself, sort of think,
• 40:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: What do you really of way it until somebody wounded him to try and get some magic wood grafted in whiskey?
• 40:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: Because I don't think he would.
• 40:10
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think he would be savvy enough to sort of go, this is a really big sort of weakness of mine is that I need this conduit to be able to use my power to begin with.
• 40:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: So I kind of feel like he probably would have shopped around a little bit before and maybe that's why he was rubbing banks to begin with.
• 40:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: He had an operation to pay for or something.
• 40:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
• 40:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: But it is an interesting sort of thing and I think it's, you can kind of sort of look it through the lens of the sort of a night easification of things where, you know, everybody had to become increasingly more powerful that power creep was real.
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: But at the same time, I think, I think for it and where it has sort of recently with.
• 40:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: It was a really clever take on it.
• 40:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: I really enjoyed it.
• 40:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: I liked the fact that it was sort of almost a semi-o-tech security system kind of thing like he was the CCTV of Coca-Cola through plants.
• 40:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: It was really good.
• 40:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: I really enjoyed it.
• 40:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like his criminal motivations in my brain, the way I write this character at least, is he just does it for the joy of it.
• 40:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's fun for him.
• 40:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: He likes the the capers and he doesn't really think about the people, right?
• 41:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like he has some status and the people growing up in the castle were always less thin him.
• 41:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think that's how he likely sees the victims of his crimes.
• 41:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: But when he's cornered, then a certain part of him comes out.
• 41:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: He can become very savage.
• 41:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: But the tree version of him, it's almost like the lizard with Kirk Conner's, like once the tree brain kicks in, he just becomes a monster.
• 41:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I suppose we have to decide how much of that is him in control or how much of that is him giving into this kind of bloodlust.
• 41:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: Robin, an interesting question for you.
• 41:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: Where does Tom fit into Xavier's dream?
• 41:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: Where it does he fit into the world of mutants?
• 41:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Tom comes to really represent this communion with the land, and obviously that's a very integral part of sort of Irish and Celtic mythology, but I think it's really interesting when we put that in conjunction with what in comparison to his cousin.
• 41:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: because as cousin's powers, he's the Irishman who left Ireland.
• 41:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's the Irishman who spends his time up in the sky, and Black Tom quickly comes to represent the person who stayed in Ireland.
• 42:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: The person who's more connected with the land, the person who is hiding to Ireland in a way that is cousin chose to abandon.
• 42:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: He was often the other side of the Atlantic when Black Tom moved in to Cassidy Keep.
• 42:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just think it's really interesting that we see that, but then through this lens of comics written by American writers where the more Irish American character is the hero and the Irish character is the villain.
• 42:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not really sure what to make of that, but I just think it's worth highlighting.
• 42:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's very interesting and unusual part of their dynamic.
• 42:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so with regards to the Newton metaphor, I think I think black tongue cast usually interesting because honestly looking back at his powers, he becomes a lot more interesting when he develops the wood-based powers when he becomes almost like the cam Richard Rice, it's Richard Price, Vincent Price of the Xman Bala Poison Ivy.
• 42:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's this really weird
• 43:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think he becomes much more interesting as a mutant character when he's not just I have a staff that can shoot beams at people because that doesn't really make him a mutant.
• 43:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, that's a very wishy washy power that could just be he has a special staff with a battery and at him becoming something that is inherently tied to the land on which he walks is much more
• 43:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: opposition in a lot of ways to Charles Xavier, who is kind of like the mind and the sky, looking down on people.
• 43:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Bruce Tom is connected to the very land that everyone walks on.
• 43:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: He feels the way that we connect with the world.
• 43:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that it helps him to connect, we see this in the cocoon era, it helps him to connect with the world around him and create relationships that Charles Xavier with his big brain just does not think.
• 43:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Charles Xavier, I would really like to see the ball if universe where he is a hero who runs the skill and Charles Xavier is the villainous telepath.
• 44:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love, there's a category of main characters like Juggernaut, Saber Tooth, Mystique, where we take the villain magneto, we take the villain and we put them on the team and we like add that perspective.
• 44:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: We really only get that for Tom in the Krikoa era, but it's never to a point
• 44:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, for example, in the X force, all of those teams, all of those adventures, I can't think of like one key relationship, Black Tom and anyone else that was super interesting to me.
• 44:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: Black Tom and Sage had some moments he and Beast had some moments, but his key relationships remain to reset Kane and Sean, right?
• 44:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: I would it be really interesting Robin to see what you just said is like him as the hero turn or him as the main character, trying to do something different, but he's still exactly who he is.
• 44:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: Although, you know, super Black Tom's interesting too.
• 44:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: We're creating a certain kind of energy whenever we do these trials, and when we're looking at this character's perspective, we're kind of mapping my journey as I was really thinking about him.
• 45:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: I started with Darvio Gillis, the little people, and then we build from there, like, oh, the AIDS allegory, the queer read, the entitled kind of rogue camp villain, the plant read, like there's so many ways of viewing this character.
• 45:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: How are we feeling about where we're at with him?
• 45:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I felt that at the core of who Thomas, he's been the most consistent, you know, like he still wants to do villain stuff.
• 45:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: He still enjoys the thrills of like mischief and, you know, regular nonsense.
• 45:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he still maintains like you're saying, Chad, those relationships, those are his core things.
• 45:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's really care about anyone else.
• 45:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's been so interesting and kind of
• 45:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: kind of refreshing as a reader where it's like I don't have to see all of these other like I don't have to go to a bunch of places to find out like what he's about I can go and they can read just about him and I know, okay, this is who this person is and that's been very interesting.
• 45:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: Speaking as the guy who once pitched a book to Marvel, I want to tell the early adventures of Charles Xavier, there's a story where Professor X is involved for fucking sure, but Tom and Sean, why are they so close?
• 46:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: Do I feel like Tom's parents something happened and he got left
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: to the estate.
• 46:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: So he's the low key to Sean's four in that way, where he is loved, but also just doesn't quite fit.
• 46:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: There's some really interesting pieces of early motivation that I think would change my understanding of this character fundamentally.
• 46:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: But I don't know, I blame Charles Xavier.
• 46:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's the story I want to tell.
• 46:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: Chris, did you have that?
• 46:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Always blame Charles Xavier.
• 46:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good default position.
• 46:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting, I was thinking the same thing about the consistency that throughout all of the reading that we've done for this.
• 46:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can see a story path throughout all of it.
• 46:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, some of that is because there are big gaps and you can fill in what you need.
• 46:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: But there was never a point where if it wasn't fit with what we'd already learned about it previously.
• 46:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that consistency was really quite refreshing for something like this.
• 46:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I've never thought about it in terms of the comparison to Cypher and Warlock.
• 47:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: The low level power becomes incredibly powerful when merged with a larger self-sustaining entity.
• 47:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I'm now obsessed with the idea of Sean Tom and Theresa forming their own version in the New Mutants instead of aliens.
• 47:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: Kevin, I know you have thoughts on Tom as a monster tree slash shamanic tree guy.
• 47:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, so I did a little bit, but then I guess everybody's being so thoughtful and have great thoughts.
• 47:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: And especially with Robin was saying, I made me start to think putting it through a queer lens again.
• 47:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: But if you look at these kind of three areas of Tom, it's very much the kind of maybe white gay experience for the most part.
• 47:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: But like, starts as a youth where it's party time.
• 47:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: maybe you're finding your boyfriend you're going out to the club and you're doing your your crazy shit.
• 47:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then you kind of go through your like revolutionary like kind of messy period of maybe you know you're figuring out the world and like adult hoods hitting you and you become a crazy tree.
• 47:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: But then hopefully you kind of get graduate to that I now understand community and I get what this is all about and I'm a little wiser and his kind of interface with the
• 48:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: Also kind of like pulling away from maybe the youngsters and you know we say there were a lot of relationships that kind of formed out of that and they become kind of this like Sage you go to to find out information or to tap into something from the past but they're maybe not as forward you know group facing as they were before and I didn't really think about that until all of you were talking so thank you.
• 48:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, and again, the queer read, this is the kid that felt unseen in a family with a lot of privilege, right?
• 48:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then something happened, we don't know the full story.
• 48:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: And maybe at 1716, 18, he ended up in prison for five years.
• 48:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: He gets out and shons nowhere to be seen.
• 48:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you know what I mean?
• 48:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think there's some really, there's some powerful moments here.
• 48:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm the similar theme.
• 48:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think for me it's it's more of a question mark there and it's like we've been talking about this sort of through line in Black Tom where it's like you know it's the thrill seeking is the thrill over all it it's that adventure kind of thing you know and part of me wonders it's like why what was that what was that in his past in his history whatever it was that because him and Xavier appears right like if he was aware of Banshee you would have conceived of being aware of Black Tom as well.
• 49:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: So to me, it's sort of like you recruited Banshee to fight a giant island made it of wood.
• 49:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: Did you not think that maybe the man who could have used that island as a weapon against itself would have been useful?
• 49:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: Do you not think that maybe there's not sort of path where Black Tom was recruited alongside Banshee to aim in that relationship and be funneled that sort of adventure seeking that thrill, seeking thing into something that's actually heroics, into something that's actually productive.
• 49:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: We see it in Crocoa, we see it in X force, we see that
• 49:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: Was that something that was actually there all along that could have been keyed into?
• 49:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: How much is Xavier really responsible for?
• 49:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: Everything.
• 49:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's the answer.
• 49:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: Everything.
• 49:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's always his fault.
• 49:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then Robin, as the recent voice of like Tom Cassidy, I'm Graham Alkin Lane, how are you feeling about this character?
• 49:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think he is just absolutely delightful.
• 49:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that the delightful person you've got voicing him on your podcast is just wonderful.
• 50:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think everyone will listen to her.
• 50:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: You didn't have spent enough time together.
• 50:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: I know what recording with you was like.
• 50:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: And when you do tell, you get this very, oh, is that how it's going to be then shown?
• 50:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like very, like he's flipping the cape around his shoulder as he speaks.
• 50:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, that's the thing.
• 50:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Is this is why my reference point earlier was been some price.
• 50:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, this man, I don't do anything by half measures and actually listening to Kevin earlier and talking about the, like, ghee analogy.
• 50:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: it just on me that the trees are actually estrogen.
• 50:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is a trans-alligory because and I tell you all for why.
• 50:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: First year I was on HRT I was a crazy bitch.
• 50:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: That is you turn into a tree and you kill a little squid boy.
• 50:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: It happens.
• 50:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: Don't judge and also and also you point at it coming and also you create a clone of Mondo who also has the same interface with Cracoa later, which is fascinating.
• 50:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: We've never seen it explored.
• 50:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, we're going to jump into the trial of Tom Cassidy.
• 50:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is not a difficult one to wrap your brain around he doesn't have a ton of appearances and there's a pretty easy through line.
• 51:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: This quick boy comment.
• 51:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: How could you?
• 51:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: My baby.
• 51:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, if he looks like Kassulu, he's got it coming in some way, hasn't he?
• 51:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: He had bad vibes.
• 51:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am.
• 51:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am.
• 51:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so transitioning over to the trial, we have five different sections of Tom's history.
• 51:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: Each member of our jury has been asked to read and prepare a prosecution and a defense in each given section.
• 51:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: After which all of us will vote using a scale from 0 to 5, 0 meaning completely innocent, 5 meaning completely evil, and you can use that scale, however you like.
• 51:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: We'll take a final score at the end.
• 51:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Trial point one, we are calling Lord of Keep and Castle.
• 51:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: The key issues here are X-Men 99, 101 through 103.
• 51:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: 122 through 124 and spider-women 3738.
• 51:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: All Chris Plairmont stories, the assigned jury member here is Kevin Canary.
• 52:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: After getting out of prison, Black Tom and Juggernaut went home to the family of state at Cassidy Keep and used subversion violence, black mail and
• 52:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: threats of torture to keep those who lived on the estate in line while they begin living a luxurious life.
• 52:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: Again, very down to Nadie.
• 52:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: When the attorney flat her tea tried, sending a request for help to shan in the states, Black Tom killed the man with a blast of concussive energy in the rain, poor foolish lawyer flat her tea.
• 52:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: My cousin could soon stop the morning sun from rising.
• 52:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: I cousin Sean, you're a stop-black Tom won't he?
• 52:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: At least you're a die-trient.
• 52:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: And when the X-Men accompanied Benchy home for vacation, Black Tom greets him on a throne, holding his wooden staff of power, juggernaut, his side.
• 52:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: Together we two are going to do what no other villains in the history of the world have been able to do.
• 52:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: We're going to kill the X-Men.
• 52:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: We soon learned that Eric, the red, freed them, stayed tuned for an Eric, the red plan later, this year on Graham Hawking Lane.
• 52:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: And he was paying them to destroy the X-Men.
• 52:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: And with the X-Men defeated, they planned to lure Professor X-Men as well.
• 53:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: In a kinky basement, Blackthalmen juggernaut strung up the X-Men in various metal shackles and energy fields.
• 53:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is their sex dungeon.
• 53:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: And to stop them from using their powers or fighting back,
• 53:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: In the form of Charles Xavier, due to an image inducer, Nightcrawler attacked evading juggernauts blows and Tom's blasts, and kicked Tom right in the chest before fraying the X-Men.
• 53:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: The Banshee remained a captive.
• 53:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom threatened to cut him into pieces of the X-Men didn't surrender.
• 53:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom turned to the castle's weapon systems against the X-Men, but the heroes turned the tables, Banshee and Tom got in a sword fight, and a fist fight.
• 53:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: Black Tom ended up pitched over the side of the building and into the stormy ocean, with juggernaut jumping in after him.
• 53:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: later, against Juggernaut's wishes, Black Tom hired Arcade to kill the X-Men this time.
• 53:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: We've bigger, better fish to fry.
• 53:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: If our men succeeds, those Carson mutants will be dead, and we'd be millionaires.
• 53:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Juggernaut calls Arcade some mincing Pip-Squeak-Peace-P-Brain-Wack-O-Killer for hire.
• 54:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: And so Arcade constructs a special murder world with psychologically cruel and deadly traps for the X-Men to face as he kills them.
• 54:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom and Kane checking with Arcade during the event, but of course the X-Men survive.
• 54:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then the gentleman with the beard is Black Tom Cassidy, mutant by birth rowed by inclination, master criminal by profession.
• 54:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom has become aware of shield picking up a shipment of a hundred kilos of vibranium, and he wants to steal the whole thing and then sell it on the international black market.
• 54:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: And in his caper he's joined by Cain Marco and Teresa Rark.
• 54:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: The daughter of Banshee Sean never knew they had.
• 54:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: And as soon as they robbed the mint, leaving Spider-Woman behind to take the blame for the whole thing because they'd fought the superhero, and they have stolen vibranium, brought aboard Tom's ship, but Spider-Woman and the X-Men soon attacked, deceabling the ship, and Tom did his best to fight back, but was apprehended.
• 54:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: When Teresa was wounded by a venom blast from Spider-Woman, Tom told the authorities she had nothing to do with the robbery, and they let her go.
• 55:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: Let me turn it over to Kevin, but if you've never read Spider-Woman 3738, please do.
• 55:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: Kevin did, and he is happy.
• 55:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm super happy.
• 55:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's iconic.
• 55:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: There's so much stuff happening in just the first couple pages of Spider-Woman 37 that I require.
• 55:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's required reading now.
• 55:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: It is.
• 55:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, but, gentle folk of the jury, I am here to discuss Black Tom Cassidy and not Spider-Woman.
• 55:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I will tell you all that while it may seem very cut and dry and simple, there is a lot of nuance to these crimes that we shall be discussing.
• 55:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: So first, I shall break them into the three different events that our judge here has brought to the table.
• 55:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: So it's not to confuse the issues.
• 55:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: So first, we talk about this issue with Cassidy Keap.
• 55:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: So the crimes as they are being brought here involve things such as Jail Escape, we have a salt inheritance theft, forgery, stolen identity squatting, premeditated murder, attempted murder, and torture.
• 55:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: So
• 55:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: Let's go through some of these items and see what really happened.
• 56:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: First, we do know that there is buying blacktoms owned admission and escaped from prison.
• 56:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: We do not know the full information is to what has happened in this point, but we know that he was not released.
• 56:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: He did escape.
• 56:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: So, point one.
• 56:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: Two, the killing of the solicitor.
• 56:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: So, we do know that there was a lawyer giving information to Sean Cassidy in order to stop the squatting of Cassidy keep that was going on.
• 56:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: And instead of just having a nice, pleasant conversation with said solicitor, what happens instead?
• 56:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: A shot with the shalelly down assumed dead.
• 56:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: We don't see him taking to the hospital.
• 56:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: We don't know for sure, but it is appearing dead.
• 56:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: Next, I bring the first witness to the stand.
• 56:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: We have the narrator of our story who, in narration, accuses Tom of treachery.
• 56:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: Cassidy Keep has never fallen to a force of arm, but treachery, now that is something else again.
• 56:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, are we default the narrator?
• 56:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: Next, we have Tom's own account when seeing the X-Men coming into Cassidy Key.
• 57:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: Five flies winging their way into Black Tom's web, never to escape a lie.
• 57:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: Pre-meditated, he knew as they were coming in there that he was planning to murder them.
• 57:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: We know, through many different characters, one of our next witnesses being Eman, saying that Tom obviously does not have a rights to Cassidy Keep, has been living there, has been making modifications to said castle in inclusion, adding trap doors, torture dungeon, lots of things probably without permit.
• 57:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: We have no idea that there were permits involved, but then,
• 57:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: in talking to Amin, his butler, or not even his butler, but the butler of cast to keep.
• 57:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: When Amin tries to resist the plot of killing the X man, he calls it the murder of innocent people.
• 57:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: Black Tom does not counter that in any way.
• 57:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then we find Black Tom is using black mail on Amin where he says, have you forgotten the lives I hold in the palm of my hand?
• 57:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: If the lives of those you hold dear held hostage for your good behavior, you watch those who love and trust you die in agony, blackmail, hostages, it's just it's piling up at this point, it's ridiculous.
• 58:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then there's just general violence.
• 58:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's not a non-violent person, so Black Tom strikes him and with his chileily across the face, just for backtalking him.
• 58:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it's not even like he was planned, he wasn't even on the murder list and he still gets a big smack to the face.
• 58:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: On then, we have again our second witness, Amenodonel, saying curse your butchers heart.
• 58:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: Again, it's a character assassination there where you're saying, what kind of person is this treacherous Black Tom?
• 58:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: He has a butchers heart.
• 58:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: Then we have this illegal seizure of property as mentioned at Cassidy Keep.
• 58:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: there is no paperwork done for him to be living there for how ever long he's been to do all of these permit changes.
• 58:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: So that could be a mixture of different crimes.
• 58:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: He refers to himself as a villain.
• 58:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: He doesn't even like mince words there.
• 58:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's calls himself a villain.
• 58:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: Very proud of it.
• 58:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: He threatens this premeditated murder of the X-Men multiple times.
• 59:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: He then
• 59:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: traps them into the dungeon of Cassidy Keep with unlawful imprisonment.
• 59:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: He is so shady.
• 59:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: He shoots night crawler in the back when night crawler doesn't even see what is happening.
• 59:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: That speaks to character there.
• 59:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then literally straps all of the X-Men to different torture devices.
• 59:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: So that's all happening just in this one day.
• 59:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: So he's very busy in this like one day.
• 59:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: So that is all the things
• 59:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: I must bring some cases to the jury so that you are aware of why none of this really matters.
• 59:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: First, let's talk about this lawyer that he supposedly killed.
• 59:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: We know that there was a body maybe sitting on the ground after being shot by Tom.
• 59:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: But this man, when he went in to drop that letter off to send a Sean Cassidy, kept the door to the office open.
• 59:46
  [SPEAKER_06]: And the person at that office even complained that that person that lawyer didn't know how to shut a door.
• 59:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe he deserved that shot.
• 59:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: You don't know, he seems like a terrible person too.
• 59:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then let's talk about the battle between Sean and Tom, where Sean Cassidy's, you know, decides to start he, Sean Cassidy Banshee, begins the fight.
• 1:00:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: They may have had some words, but the physical fight is started when Sean attempts to punch Tom in the jaw too.
• 1:00:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: He is beautiful facial hair.
• 1:00:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: He was gonna punch him in that facial hair.
• 1:00:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: That is a crime in itself.
• 1:00:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: Where is that Sean Cassidy?
• 1:00:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, the blast night crawler in the back, there is a hate crime going on where night crawlers beating up juggernaut.
• 1:00:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: All Black Tom is doing his protecting his future husband.
• 1:00:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, he's killing the X man or trying to kill the X man.
• 1:00:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: He doesn't do it.
• 1:00:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: So there's no actual murder here.
• 1:00:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's basically because he's been hired to do so by another force.
• 1:00:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: So what does that say?
• 1:00:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: He has good work ethic.
• 1:00:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: That is very wholesome.
• 1:00:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: So his plan through the whole thing was to bait Professor Xavier to come rescue the X-Men because he and Juggernaut with their plan was actually to kind of do damage or kill Professor X.
• 1:00:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right, who likes Professor X?
• 1:00:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe it's warranted.
• 1:00:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: I adore that that should be enough there.
• 1:00:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: I adore that they got out of jail together.
• 1:00:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, let's go fuck up our that was their plan.
• 1:00:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
• 1:00:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: Professor X is the problem.
• 1:00:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: Everybody everybody agrees.
• 1:01:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: Also, we have this torture chamber besides the upgrades he made without charging Sean Cassidy for these upgrades to Cassidy keep, there is this beautiful torture dungeon now that has a variety of different equipment.
• 1:01:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: There is lots of diversity in this dungeon.
• 1:01:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: That's an extra.
• 1:01:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: added value.
• 1:01:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: Now Cassidy keep could be sold for more money.
• 1:01:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I don't see that as a bad thing.
• 1:01:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: He does stop juggernaut from killing the X-Men.
• 1:01:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: He instead uses his neuronic tangler glove instead.
• 1:01:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: So he is kind to these people.
• 1:01:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: He basically is is made to the choice of nonviolence in certain cases.
• 1:01:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: And he chooses to have some talking with the X-Men before throwing Banshee off the side of the castle.
• 1:01:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: So he could have just thrown him off.
• 1:01:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: He was unconscious.
• 1:01:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: He was up there juggernaut could have tossed him off.
• 1:01:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is no, let's wait.
• 1:01:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: Let's have a conversation.
• 1:01:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: So he's always leading with conversation first, and I think that's really important to consider.
• 1:01:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: He is great concern for juggernaut when things go wrong with juggernaut.
• 1:01:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's very deeply protective of him, so he is interested in other human life than just himself, and I think that's important to consider here.
• 1:02:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: So that is our first incident that happened.
• 1:02:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: So let's bring us to our second incident of this hiring of an assassin allegedly.
• 1:02:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so we have a few things here.
• 1:02:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe there is premeditated murder, maybe there's accessory to murder.
• 1:02:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: We're not sure here.
• 1:02:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: But we have a few kind of facts here that there might have been a gathering of juggernaut in Black Tom to hire a gay assassin.
• 1:02:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so basically what they did is hired somebody with the intent to kill the X-Men allegedly.
• 1:02:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: that might be the crime, but I will say the pro to this is if you're going to hire an assassin hiring a gay fabulous assassin with lots of little gimmicks and a fun playroom is the way to go.
• 1:02:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: So, come on, is there really a downside when the X-men get to play in a giant pinball machine and they get to work with a mislock and you know, arcade is it's much fun.
• 1:02:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: We missed the scene where Black Top and Juggernaut met arcade at Folsom.
• 1:02:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, that's where they met and they're like, we got to meet this guy.
• 1:02:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: There's that mean I think they're like
• 1:03:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, it was more of a mislock I bet, but you could see them being like, you know, the guys you meet at the bar and they're sitting there and they're like, hey, we believe so you're from across the bar.
• 1:03:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's that, it's that vibe.
• 1:03:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: Then we get to our final event, it's this this this theory of vibranium that may have been happening or so.
• 1:03:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: So some of the things that have been brought to attention here is corruption of a minor as a possibility.
• 1:03:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: Federal larceny assault and attempted murder.
• 1:03:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: Again, you see a little bit of a theme here.
• 1:03:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: Attempted, I don't see a lot of murder here, but there's a lot of attention.
• 1:03:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: So first,
• 1:03:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I will bring the, um, this may be a different witness, but it's another narrator.
• 1:03:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: So still on mission though, but the omniscient narrator is being called to the, the table to say, they list Black Tom as a mutant by birth, a rogue by inclination and a master criminal by profession.
• 1:03:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so if we are to trust the narrator, then he is a criminal and his plan and with Juggernaut is to steal the US's supply of vibranium.
• 1:04:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: And we know that this is the introduction of Teresa where they are including, you know, by all accounts and underage minor into this cry.
• 1:04:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: So that's really what we're looking at as this goes on.
• 1:04:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: But I challenge you to think about this differently.
• 1:04:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: First, by Brainium is primarily African in origin.
• 1:04:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: This basically is colonizers taking that U.S. supply so the U.S. really has no right to it anyway.
• 1:04:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I don't see how that's really concerned that he's trying to take it.
• 1:04:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: Being a father to his niece because his cousin has derelict in his duties.
• 1:04:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: How is that a bad thing?
• 1:04:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not sure.
• 1:04:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: He is encouraging.
• 1:04:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: He is very proud of his niece.
• 1:04:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: He encourages her to use her powers in different and interesting ways.
• 1:04:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: So there's creativity involved.
• 1:04:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: He understands the seriousness of murder versus federal arsenity because at one point he said we should not kill spider woman because that would be murder And we're only involved in federal arsenity look at that.
• 1:04:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's understanding the difference of it that shows that he could have chosen murder and chose not to
• 1:04:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then he does acknowledges the courage of Spider-Women to still get up and fight after Juggernaut beat or down, so that's him supporting women.
• 1:05:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I feel like that's something that would be value and something that he should be awarded to.
• 1:05:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then finally, at the end, when he is captured, he could take Spider-Women and Teresa down with him.
• 1:05:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: But he instead tells the police they had nothing to do with anything going on to absolve them of any crime.
• 1:05:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I have to say one being a good father figure.
• 1:05:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: and two, I do feel like he kind of went above and beyond in this case for what he could do.
• 1:05:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: And throughout all three, it's probably the finest he's ever loved.
• 1:05:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I give that to the jury and say, you must vote zero.
• 1:05:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's he's absolved of any crime.
• 1:05:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: I know how fun these stories are, and I love to see if you have so much fun with them.
• 1:05:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to have the jury vote in the chat just to conserve a little time.
• 1:05:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: But do we have thoughts or questions that we need to ask Kevin based on this section?
• 1:05:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's clear at this point that everything that's shown Cassidy had throw away Tom Tom just adopted a group and he's turned Cassidy deep to a fabulous Airbnb.
• 1:06:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
• 1:06:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: You could you could sell that for a lot of money.
• 1:06:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's actually only helped.
• 1:06:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, so you're telling me that Black Tom Cassidy is an Airbnb owner, five.
• 1:06:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry for that.
• 1:06:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: But Abby and Fiona, the potential one.
• 1:06:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: But Abby and Fiona, who's not here for Kingshaming, he's not here for Kingshaming.
• 1:06:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, good.
• 1:06:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: Very open-minded.
• 1:06:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, that gives us a 21 out of 30 in that first section.
• 1:06:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: And we are now going to go to trial point two, which we are calling up to development.
• 1:06:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that was a terrible error section.
• 1:06:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I lost it.
• 1:06:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: They're always after me lucky charms up to development.
• 1:06:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: Robin just lost it.
• 1:06:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: that cannot be your gateway statement into an Irish accent.
• 1:06:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: I grew up watching Lucky Charms Cartier.
• 1:06:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: I got our commercials.
• 1:06:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
• 1:06:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: The key issues here are amazing spider-man 229 and 238.
• 1:06:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: Marvel team up 150.
• 1:07:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: Next force 1 through 5.
• 1:07:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: The Ascendure member here is Robin and Robin.
• 1:07:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: At least the first three issues.
• 1:07:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: I know you fucking loved their delightful.
• 1:07:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom and Juggernaut relocate to New York City on a boat that Tom seems to have designed himself, it has a logo everywhere, and Tom begins planning heists again.
• 1:07:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: Juggernaut is growing antsy for action.
• 1:07:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom, I'm going stir crazy, I need something to do now.
• 1:07:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tickets he's he can, like I told you before, you know, soon have all the action you can crave.
• 1:07:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: How many times must I tell you, I'm not Kane Marco anymore, I haven't been since the day I became the Juggernaut and you'd a real workout Tom, something worthy of my power.
• 1:07:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: think you're ready to tackle the X men again, do you?
• 1:07:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: Don't be daft, then bleed and mutants always manage to stiny.
• 1:07:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: So he's heard about a psychic named Madam Web who has her own business cards by the way.
• 1:07:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: Go see my Madam Web episode.
• 1:07:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: And Tom feels like if Kane kidnapped her, then maybe they can use this blind old woman to help them commit crimes because she can see the future.
• 1:07:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: Impatient, Kane stomps through the boat, destroying it, and jumping right into the ocean, on his way to kidnap Madame Webb, Spider-Man tries stopping him, resulting in massive property damage, and Juggernaut ends up buried in wet cement and a construction site.
• 1:08:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: And Tom watches it all happen through binoculars,
• 1:08:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: And he's like, oh, juggernaut on a burst free at any moment, but then he does it years.
• 1:08:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, not years, uh, sometime later, wanting the perfect gift for Black Tom's birthday, juggernaut returns to Krakowat to retrieve the crimson gem of Ciderak that had powered him up as the juggernaut.
• 1:08:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: The next day, in the penthouse suite at the hotel, Tom is hanging out with some hot chicks when juggernaut brings him a wrapped gift.
• 1:08:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom touches the crimson gem, and he bursts out of his own clothing, suddenly super strong, like Kane Marko.
• 1:08:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is a crazy issue.
• 1:08:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom knocks Juggernaut out of the building, to the sidewalk below in a panic, then Juggernaut climbs back up and throws Tom out in return.
• 1:08:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a fistfight between muscular boyfriends.
• 1:08:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom soon realizes that they're both at half Juggernaut strength and they team up to fight.
• 1:09:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: Ex, Spider-Man, and the X-Men, Tom fires his shaleily in every direction before Rogue touches him, steals his powers, and returns him to normal.
• 1:09:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom and Juggernaut soon escape.
• 1:09:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, we go to Rob Laefeld when her company faced being bought out by Gideon and Sunspot, a woman named Ariana Janko's Hires Black Tom to protect her.
• 1:09:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: But he shows up at a meeting at the World Trade Center and prepares to make all in attendance their hostages for maximum political attention and personal profit.
• 1:09:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: made the most of a bad situation.
• 1:09:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Question mark.
• 1:09:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: Nope, it made it worse.
• 1:09:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: And this is before the Twin Towers were destroyed, everybody.
• 1:09:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: He assembles a differential machine and uses it to locate Juggernaut who has been lost in a dimensional void in the multiverse and brings him home.
• 1:09:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: So ultimately, this is a caper to get Juggernaut or back home to him.
• 1:09:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: Siren arrives to investigate.
• 1:09:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: Juggernaut punches her, Tom shoots her down, Tom and Cainer then attacked by the brand new X-Force.
• 1:09:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom defeats Gideon and Sunspot in combat himself.
• 1:10:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: They are part of the hostages, but then cable grazes his arm with a bullet.
• 1:10:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom responds by pushing the button on the detonator.
• 1:10:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: He fucking means business, so he explodes.
• 1:10:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: The World Trade Center.
• 1:10:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: The fight continues in Spider-Man number 16 in a sideways crossover, but Tom's not there.
• 1:10:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: Black Tom eventually, or excuse me, soon confronts cable directly and ends up getting shot multiple times and dropped from a height.
• 1:10:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: Really reinforcing that this is not your daddy's X-Men anymore.
• 1:10:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: Dead pool later delivers the captive wounded Tom to Juggernaut and Tolerer, who is cable's kid from the future.
• 1:10:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: Don't worry about it.
• 1:10:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, first of all, let's get into the defense.
• 1:10:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Your honor.
• 1:10:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: My client is innocent.
• 1:10:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Innocent of all charges.
• 1:10:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go through them.
• 1:10:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: First charges.
• 1:10:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Levi-Dimistricacity are a function and a cell of one.
• 1:10:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Madam Web.
• 1:10:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Firstly, these crimes were carried out by my client husband.
• 1:10:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Remate.
• 1:10:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is telling me to save remate.
• 1:10:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: The juggernaut, Mr. Cassidy, only wanted to offer Madam Weib a job working for him.
• 1:11:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Surely it's not a crime to offer gainful employment to the elderly in New York City.
• 1:11:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, this offer may have come with a coercive threat of violence, but in Spider-Man's New York, do we really expect anything less?
• 1:11:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: The next charges levied at my client are civic destruction of property, reach of the piece and disorderly conduct.
• 1:11:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: However, all cranes committed during my client's rough and tumble romantic wrestling match with King Marko were done under the influence of Citorac, Citorac, Citorac, going with Citorac, and one expect a drunk Irishman to handle the overwhelming force of the crimson gen of Citorac.
• 1:11:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mr. Cassidy has only been a capable of handling such overwhelming force.
• 1:11:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: When it is wielded by Mr. Marco himself, if the court catches Mike's briff, so can we really hold this man accountable for crimes committed when he was compelled by an eldritch being from an entirely different dimension?
• 1:11:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think not.
• 1:11:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: This man barely has the constitution to look after himself.
• 1:12:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: And finally, Charges of Terrorism, Soviet destruction of property, and attempted mass merger, which, yes, I must admit, a, look bad, and b, begrudgingly, yes, my client didn't pack through all of these, but he was trying to get his boyfriend back from another dimension, which, of us, hasn't committed a little crime or 27 to try and bring our lover back from another universe, I rest my case, and we start looking for another lane of
• 1:12:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And now, for the prosecution, as Mr. Cassidy's attorney has just led the room screaming, I'm not sure much really needs to be said here, but in the interest of posterity, let's get things underway.
• 1:12:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Firstly, the abduction and assault of Madden Webb, guilty.
• 1:12:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mr. King Markle made me have committed the acts, but that man doesn't have a brain inside his crimson helmet.
• 1:12:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Any and all crimes committed by Mr. Markle during his
• 1:12:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mr. Casti is clearly the brains to Mr. Marko's quite a luring braw, therefore guilty.
• 1:12:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Secondly, severed destruction of property, reach to the peace and disorderly conduct.
• 1:13:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, the defendant may have been compelled by such a rack himself, but honestly, this is the six one six universe.
• 1:13:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: If we let someone off just because of a little bit of cosmic interference, then what happens?
• 1:13:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Where do we end up just?
• 1:13:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: ask the broccoli people of the barri.
• 1:13:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think they have to say about the fact that Ms. Jean Grey is running around like nothing ever happened.
• 1:13:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: It is a sin I tell you.
• 1:13:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Furthermore, these crimes are all undertaken during flirtatious romp between Mr. Markle and Mr. Cassidy.
• 1:13:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: If there is one thing New York has suffered from enough, it's men with unexplored sexual attention, causing problems in its streets.
• 1:13:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: One more time, guilty and finally we have terrorism, civic destruction of property again and attempted mass murder.
• 1:13:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: This guy tried to blow up the world, create center and just why did Mr. Cassidy undertake the sort of unpatriotic criminals
• 1:14:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: scheming through turn McJoggernaugh, Tane Markle to our universe.
• 1:14:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: First of all, that is a terrible idea this man just commits an agrocious amount of crime in New York City, and secondly, once again, Mr. Cassidy and Mr. Markle.
• 1:14:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: are causing problems together.
• 1:14:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Throw the book of both of them.
• 1:14:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Have them locked up in a joining house and let the two of them be each other's problem and not the city of New York.
• 1:14:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: guilty guilty.
• 1:14:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: I rest my goddamn case.
• 1:14:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
• 1:14:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Good night.
• 1:14:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Did you read these before?
• 1:14:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I had heard of these, I was aware of the stories, seeing it all on the page, seeing Marble team up, please to anyone.
• 1:14:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you've not looked at Marble team up 150, just go and read Marble team up 150.
• 1:14:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: If there's one thing you do before, you go to bed this evening.
• 1:14:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: So read Marble team up 150.
• 1:14:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: I can very quickly share that Marvel team at 150 is just fish porn.
• 1:14:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: It is delightful.
• 1:14:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, Black Tom is not as evil in it as you think he would be.
• 1:14:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's really just there having a good time with his boyfriend and it just becomes everyone else's problem because they take too many drugs.
• 1:15:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: These things happen.
• 1:15:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Don't judge the man.
• 1:15:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hang out with Gideon's holocaust.
• 1:15:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: We vote more than five.
• 1:15:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: But he finally says that.
• 1:15:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's actually so that's to bring it down.
• 1:15:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm actually a really big Gideon fan.
• 1:15:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: But like a lot of this was like reacted to what's going on.
• 1:15:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then he goes on a rescue mission.
• 1:15:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: So technically, technically, I don't know what he is for.
• 1:15:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: He does go on a rescue mission, but he does also attack his adoptive door, which is, you know, not a good look.
• 1:15:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, but he is doing it for love.
• 1:15:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: So.
• 1:15:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah, and let's sometimes love can blind you from important things.
• 1:15:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: That last appearance in the clear narrative.
• 1:15:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: And again, some intentional some not, but his boyfriend is missing.
• 1:15:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: So we have the jail analogy again, kind of.
• 1:15:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: He gets his partner back and ends up shot and taken to a doctor where he winds up with the equivalent of HIV as a result.
• 1:15:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like crazy stories, these are crazy.
• 1:15:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's the actual episode of botched.
• 1:16:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, God.
• 1:16:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: Other comments on this section?
• 1:16:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, give me just a moment to add things up for three, four, four, four, two.
• 1:16:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: These two sort of kill in me.
• 1:16:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: That is 21 out of 30 in that section as well.
• 1:16:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, we do have a few low votes.
• 1:16:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, I'm voting for his phone.
• 1:16:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: He was buying, he was getting a gift.
• 1:16:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: He was just like getting involved.
• 1:16:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: This relationship did a little drugs.
• 1:16:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's not his fault.
• 1:16:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: He blew up the world.
• 1:16:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: He got thrown on the building.
• 1:16:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: It was gonna get blown up anyway.
• 1:16:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm allowed to say that I'm in New York.
• 1:16:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, look at her, oh my god, I am this this trial.
• 1:16:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm gonna try and edit that out, right?
• 1:16:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Holy crap.
• 1:16:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but I might not.
• 1:16:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, I'm still going to show you a trial point three.
• 1:16:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: We are calling it up to the marrow key issues.
• 1:16:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: Venom the madness one and two dead pool volume one, numbers one through four generation X 23 through 25.
• 1:16:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: A boy Christian Smith did I give you a smattering of different tonal comics here.
• 1:17:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tolver sent the dying black Tom to the private research facility in France where they stabilized his mutation as Tom started partially turning into wood.
• 1:17:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: uh, juggernaut broke into the facility with shocked by Tom's transformation, black Tom and juggernaut then stole a disc containing the will of Toliver, which had tremendous monetary volume in the black market, but Deadpool attacked them on a plane to get it back and sent Tom spiraling to his death with juggernaut jumping after him.
• 1:17:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is Churchill art, this is one of my earliest stuff.
• 1:17:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: And that image of Juggernaut on fire, and like how sexy Tom is drawn in these issues, like it really was wild to me as a teenager.
• 1:17:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love this first series of Deadpool.
• 1:17:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: Black Tom sends Juggernaut off a on a kidnapping case for profit.
• 1:17:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: They later returned to Cassidy keep ready to take it, by
• 1:17:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: force because Tom wants to go home to die.
• 1:17:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's dying from this plant procedure, but in the end came knows that surrendering Tom to the authorities is going to end up getting him to help, but the sentence, uh, they sentence him to life in prison, knowing that he could break out any time.
• 1:18:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: And this is the Teresa story that I read, uh, to dialogue from earlier.
• 1:18:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom meanwhile goes to Maves grave and they have that interaction.
• 1:18:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: Banshee arranges for Tom to get medical care with an unethical doctor kill a brew.
• 1:18:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's turning into wood and screaming in pain, juggernaut rushes in and breaks him out.
• 1:18:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: They kidnap kill a brew as well, and his file on Wade Wilson deadpool.
• 1:18:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: They then hire armed men to bring deadpool there.
• 1:18:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom soon becomes aware that Teresa is dating deadpool.
• 1:18:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: So now it's a story where I need your boyfriend's DNA to stabilize myself, daughter.
• 1:18:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is crazy, and he's now hunting him down.
• 1:18:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: When he figures it out, Thomas Furious, he knocks over his coffee mug, which has a picture of Tom from Tom and Jerry on it.
• 1:18:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: And now that's kind of the only way I can see this character.
• 1:18:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's shirtless here.
• 1:18:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's wooden.
• 1:18:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: He has an iPad.
• 1:18:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's looking very tree fit.
• 1:18:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: Nobody told me, nobody told me I had no idea Teresa was involved in this.
• 1:18:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: God pity the soldier who harms one single hair on her head.
• 1:19:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: Effective immediately, no one attacks Deadpool without first removing siren from the crossfire.
• 1:19:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: Thompson's came to get Deadpool, pain doesn't want to leave Tom, it's adorable.
• 1:19:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: Growing ever more desperate Tom is rushed in for a medical procedure, involving Deadpool's healing factor, which is obtained through Deadpool's severed hand.
• 1:19:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: We have an image of Tom wearing the hand on his own.
• 1:19:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then an excruciating pain, Tom battles Banshee Deadpool and Siren.
• 1:19:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: Juggernaut is there in the end.
• 1:19:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: He ends up stabilized by Kilibrew and sent to a hospital for treatment.
• 1:19:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: So technically we can blame all the crazy monster tree stuff on Deadpool's fucking healing factor.
• 1:19:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: Having morphed into some kind of shamanic druid with plant powers and a bigger than ever Shulele, Tom infiltrates the Massachusetts Academy of Generation X. Weir, Banshee is the new headmaster with his sentient plant creature that he creates to resemble a new plant-based mutant named Mundo.
• 1:19:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: He captures Sean, fires, Emma, and tries killing Arty and Leach and their friends Beverly, Switzer, Tana Nile, Franklin Richards, and Howard the Duck.
• 1:20:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, ranting about how much he loves Tyler Eisenwee ones and women and ducks literal literalite of dog.
• 1:20:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: Howard then sets Tom on fire.
• 1:20:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: We get's lit on fire by Howard the duck.
• 1:20:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: While man thing shows up and gets the little ones to safety.
• 1:20:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: Now Tom looks like the crypt keeper.
• 1:20:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's restrained, banshee with vines, forcing him to watch the bodies of generation X with her away.
• 1:20:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not really their bodies.
• 1:20:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: We'll learn later, little plant husks that he's draining.
• 1:20:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: Clearly, Tom says he was only doing all this because Sean had taken Teresa away from him and then he ordered Sean to kill Emma Frost in order to save the children.
• 1:20:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: Now we morphs again into like the boogie man from the nightmare before Christmas.
• 1:20:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom reveals that the Gen X kids were constructs, the real kids are gone.
• 1:20:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: They've been sent out to see where they're going to end up getting captured by Operation Zero Tolerance as a bunch of shit.
• 1:20:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then penance attacks.
• 1:20:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is the diamond twins of Montmano, Mena Sankwag, don't worry about it.
• 1:21:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, hacks him in half, and he seemingly dies.
• 1:21:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is crazy stories.
• 1:21:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: Let me turn it over to Christian.
• 1:21:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I just point now, I almost quit when I read the comics that you were going to give me.
• 1:21:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Deadpool, Deadpool, and the venom.
• 1:21:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: homophobic, then I realized that there was a baby who wrote the Deadpool one and adding the scent to you wrote the venom one and they were kind of good.
• 1:21:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would yeah I know it shocked me as well especially the venom one it actually was good anyway except for the hang around and I'm here so for the prosecution ladies and gentlemen it's of the jury Thomas Cassidy is an of our correct criminal and in this period of his life we see a escalation that cannot be ignored or denied
• 1:21:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: From hijacking, the kidnapping of misdavee, to criminal damage, arson with his bioblasts, a legal biomedical experimentation, identity theft of Mr. Monno, and the attempted mop it murder, murder, and worst of all, having character development in venom and deadball comics.
• 1:21:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Find him guilty, not just for his behaviour, but for the safety of muppets everywhere, simpler and perfect.
• 1:22:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: The defense, Mr. Cassidy is not the villain here, he is the victim.
• 1:22:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: A victim of a medical system that he doors and demonizes long-term medical needs.
• 1:22:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: A victim of unstrupulous doctors, praying on patients who no longer see a long-term solution.
• 1:22:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: A victim of his own body chemistry.
• 1:22:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: causing a break with reality after an experimental and unique by biomedical treatment.
• 1:22:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: A more importantly, a victim of Charles Xavier's child sumger program.
• 1:22:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were not mopped, they were potential weapons of mass destruction.
• 1:22:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And importantly, a victim of being involved in what not one but two kinetic scenarios with known chaos agent Wade Wilson.
• 1:22:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Did you hijack a plane?
• 1:22:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, he was attempting to serve.
• 1:22:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Save his long-term friend, friend, came Mark out from the aforementioned Wade Wilson.
• 1:22:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Did the plane come down?
• 1:22:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so, but did Mr. Cassidy get thrown out of a plane by someone else?
• 1:22:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, did we see him land?
• 1:22:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, we have no idea how he saved himself there.
• 1:22:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: We assume he landed on Kane.
• 1:22:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say, impact on Kane, but hmm, poor taste.
• 1:23:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, let's go with it.
• 1:23:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to affect someone.
• 1:23:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: and it's going to break someone's sanity for a while.
• 1:23:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what we saw happen.
• 1:23:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've not only asked it was exacerbated by the cruel and unusual medical experiments of Dr. Killerbro, do we know where he got his medical license from?
• 1:23:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because using Wade Wilson's hand is not a sensible medical procedure.
• 1:23:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: but be human and part-life in what reality is this and good and so plan.
• 1:23:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is not Gotham City and he is not panorisedly.
• 1:23:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's no wonder that when given a second leaf some life, Mr Cassidy took what it was denied for the simple crime of being ill. And that's for the attempted murder of the so-called moppits.
• 1:23:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyone with access to the internet, all the news is well aware of the criminality and borderline terrorist activities of Xavier and Frost and their child armies.
• 1:23:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Going all the way back to a Mr Cassidy was long-term partners with Mr Marco came back into Xavier's life and was beaten to within an inch of his life by six to five teenagers.
• 1:24:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And as for Mr. Mondo's, seriously, tell me his first name, tell me his last name.
• 1:24:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: How could you actually steal someone's identity when they have no identity to talk?
• 1:24:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: Can I make this worse for you?
• 1:24:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: I have a family member who refers, is a straight family member who refers to his penis as Mondo?
• 1:24:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: And every time you're saying Mr. Mondo is sending me... Jesus.
• 1:24:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, that's it.
• 1:24:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm done.
• 1:24:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm quitting it.
• 1:24:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's very hard enough.
• 1:24:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: How did you come to Nova?
• 1:24:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: It talks about it all the time.
• 1:24:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you know how many straight male friends we talk about the pieces consistently?
• 1:24:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no.
• 1:24:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: I exercise them from my life.
• 1:24:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's family.
• 1:24:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: We're going to do it.
• 1:24:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: on of my straight male friends, talks me about their jics and animatronics mask.
• 1:24:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh God no.
• 1:24:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh God no.
• 1:24:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: We need a real story told in a comic one day that'll be titled The Shalately in the Mondo and just what get off in the streets salt.
• 1:25:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm realizing Christian literally as you were talking, this plot of Tom with his new powers going into the Massachusetts Academy, it's like a repeat of the original story with testimony like he just wants to tear it all down.
• 1:25:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, to the ground because Sean has it.
• 1:25:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, so how could you, how could you still there?
• 1:25:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can see if someone who does not exist, who does not have a first name, first not have a last name and apparently his name got for a penis.
• 1:25:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: The real villain here, however, is Wade Wilson.
• 1:25:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: The man involved in the so-called hijack who let his body parts be used not once, but twice in medical experiments on Mr. Casti, and then to make things worse, he seducing the recruits of Mr. Casti's adopted.
• 1:25:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's let's say daughter at this point, given that actually, you know, he does actually raise Theresa, for his own criminal career.
• 1:25:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Theresa Casti is not Thomas by blood, but in all the ways that matter through growth, love and attention,
• 1:25:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: and Kane's daughter.
• 1:25:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And her being involved with the man who is instrumental in turning mystic acid in some kind of plant man thing.
• 1:26:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: See what I did there.
• 1:26:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, is enough to send his already fragile salinity into a state that breaks him from reality.
• 1:26:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Mystic acid is not the aggressor here.
• 1:26:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: He is the victim.
• 1:26:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it is the UK and US medical system that is the heart of all of this so-called or of his so-called crimes.
• 1:26:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, and White Wilson, vote appropriately.
• 1:26:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm really sorry I endurailed you with that mando thing.
• 1:26:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, it was chaos anyway.
• 1:26:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's also really dawning on me here.
• 1:26:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: How much like Deadpool's crazy like virus?
• 1:26:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: And like he got weapon X like Tom got weapon X in a way that he didn't want interesting interesting.
• 1:26:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: Just if there's anybody out there who makes costumes, I would love a version of Black Tom's big dramatic Gotha's hell code.
• 1:26:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not demand in it, don't worry.
• 1:26:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not real requests.
• 1:26:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: seriously, his coat is amazing.
• 1:26:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like the one in generation X, Chris, Chris Bouchello, Bacchlo, Bacchlo, I think it's like that jacket, um, Chef's case.
• 1:26:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, this gives us a 10 out of 30 in this section.
• 1:26:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: And uh, I don't know, Deadpool could be to blame for the rest I suppose.
• 1:26:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's not Deadpool's fault.
• 1:27:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's the doctors fault, right?
• 1:27:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, for all point four, we're called Scanner and the Wii ones.
• 1:27:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: Key issues here.
• 1:27:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: Generation X number 61, Cyclops 1 and 2, uncanny X
• 1:27:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: Num, you and I recently did the Leopard Queen together, and I know your feelings on some of this era of comics.
• 1:27:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you for joining us, especially everyone that Num joined us yesterday after we had at Ketzelation, so thanks for being here.
• 1:27:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom and Kane attacked Jane Generation X on the holidays.
• 1:27:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: Revealing that Tom had posed as a man named Barrington and had been behind the whole Mondo clone plot.
• 1:27:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: While monologing and taunting Sean Tom ended up defeated and Mando helped him escape, a guy named Ulysses then hired Black Tom and Juggernaut to kill Cyclops, and Tom was quickly vested in battle and then used as a hostage to get Juggernaut to back down.
• 1:27:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: Later, Ulysses caused their plane to crash into the ocean, and Cyclops helped Juggernaut realize that he might save Tom if they held each other tight enough during the fall, which of course they did.
• 1:28:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: However, next time we see Tom, he's in full plant mode.
• 1:28:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: He is mutating out of control, and Juggernaut brings the X-Men to aid him.
• 1:28:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tom lashes out in the hospital, covering everyone with vines and killing some of the patients.
• 1:28:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: Overcome by the plant part of himself, Tom strings up all of the X-Men in vines and begins draining their life forces, mutating himself into a green, pulpy creature.
• 1:28:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's stay CX.
• 1:28:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: you guys orgasms him.
• 1:28:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like she gets him all harmed up and Tom loses control and then falls into the water with Kane who gets pulled back out and ends up staying with the X-Men and Numbass feelings about Tom's plant orgasms.
• 1:28:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's looking at space in the comic, okay?
• 1:28:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just so hot.
• 1:28:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: After attacking human civilians, it independence Hall, the new brotherhood of evil mutants consisting of Black Tom, Exodus, Saber Tooth, Avalanche, Nocturn, and Mamma Max.
• 1:28:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: the group has been defeated.
• 1:29:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: Black Tom is still fully a plant creature has plans to attack the X-Men in their own home, feeling that he's been working with Juggernaut.
• 1:29:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: So Juggernaut's new on the team and this is the like who is he a good guy or is he just working with the bad guy's moment turns out he's a double agent which is a lot for Juggernaut anyway.
• 1:29:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: Not turns seems to betray the team.
• 1:29:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: Juggernaut pretends to kill her but really he's working with the X-Men.
• 1:29:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then Little Sammy Paray, Squidboy walks out and finds the team plotting.
• 1:29:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: His friend, Juggernaut, is a bit villain.
• 1:29:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: He is heartbroken.
• 1:29:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: He is crying.
• 1:29:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: And in one of the most brutal scenes ever, go see my episode on Squidboy with Chuck Austin, the writer of this story.
• 1:29:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: He'd like to learn more.
• 1:29:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: You see this small fish child's bone snapping, and he is horribly killed.
• 1:29:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: Later in the big battle, Juggernaut turns on Tom ripping him to pieces, Tom reformed as a big plant guy again, and then Black Tom defeats Rogan combat, before killing the mutant chef Marilyn, that's a real character.
• 1:29:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: Before the entire brotherhood ends up getting yanked into Zorn's black hole dimension and disappears.
• 1:30:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, no, here you go.
• 1:30:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm starting with the defense first.
• 1:30:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would say there's not much to say in defense of this career criminal, but we would ask that you consider that our client has suffered great this suffering warps his minds twisted his beliefs and causes harm to those all around us.
• 1:30:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Tom is in no way innocent and somewhat argue that he is not exactly a victim here, but mutations are a complex thing as Tom continues to change and see less of the man and more of the plant.
• 1:30:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: Was that not drive any of us into madness?
• 1:30:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: In this case, temporary insanity was lit of an heavenly swayed by the growth of his powers, powers that clearly were beyond him and his true understanding.
• 1:30:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there is a very valid argument here that his actions could be that of losing one's self to power.
• 1:30:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: We know that power corrupts.
• 1:30:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And for some of us struggling with who they are and their place in the world, this corruption has created a monster.
• 1:30:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the monster is one we question today.
• 1:30:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: For the prosecution, esteemed jurors, the prosecution is posing one question.
• 1:31:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: How much
• 1:31:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thomas Cassidy has proven on multiple occasions that he is capable of great evil from his previous escapades and these new charges we find him guilty.
• 1:31:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: From coercion, manipulation, bribery, attempted murder to finally murder, this defendant has proven to be relentless in his endeavors to maintain his villainous event, even as his closest friend and possibly lover.
• 1:31:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Back him to stop, he refused.
• 1:31:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: One could argue that this secondary mutation in quotations has triggered him to be a more pronounced on his villainous side, and that is our finding.
• 1:31:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: He was given multiple opportunities to stop his madness, and yet he continued to be evil.
• 1:31:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: This finally culminating in the death of poor Samuel, aka Squidboy.
• 1:31:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: a hero in the making, Black Tom cut his life short.
• 1:31:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why?
• 1:31:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because he could.
• 1:31:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: This child was no real threat to Tom, or his brotherhood.
• 1:31:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: The violence that then followed at Tom's hands, the deaths at Xavier's mansion inexcusable.
• 1:31:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: We find him guilty and would urge the huge sentence in all as well.
• 1:31:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, could I just hear some of your thoughts on these issues?
• 1:32:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: What were some of the wild moments for you?
• 1:32:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: I-
• 1:32:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I had never read the Cyclops before and so I got to read that and that was really fun and it just was kind of layers to me They're like, we're just here for the money man like we're just doing a job and it went from that to Jumping into uncanny xin, which I had read before and I was like, oh, yeah I know this story totally and then realizing now like oh my god, that is back Tom.
• 1:32:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god He's gonna kill poor squish boy.
• 1:32:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god my baby
• 1:32:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and like being heartbroken about that because I love Squidboy and like love seeing him pop up again later as things gone.
• 1:32:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love the dynamic between him and Juggernaut and like being like Juggernaut being like don't do it like no.
• 1:32:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like like from our conversation today like now like that could have been y'all's little baby.
• 1:32:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Y'all.
• 1:32:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: You could have had a little baby with him.
• 1:32:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was so sad.
• 1:32:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: And RIP chef Marilyn.
• 1:32:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: And Marilyn, remember for the X-Men.
• 1:32:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And like it's so side characters those like small moments that like really humanize and like bring things on earth, especially like being a teacher like yeah, we love Like cooks in the lunch ladies and stuff and like she was so sweet like fighting for the kids even though that she didn't really have a mutation that was offensive Like sure she had her like multiple arms but like she was just the cut and like shed a home that was her home and like Tom was there just to take it from them and it made me really sad
• 1:33:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: I am voting it to in this section because I feel like the early crimes where they like they took the bounty on Cyclops, right?
• 1:33:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's one.
• 1:33:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: But then I kind of don't think the other part he was in control.
• 1:33:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it depends on how we read it.
• 1:33:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: So that's why it's a lower vote for me here.
• 1:33:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: Do we have any thoughts from the jury on the section of like Tom's history?
• 1:33:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, for me, it's, it's that thing where it's, I, the X-Men have got this horrible, horrible history of not being responsible with the youth in their charges, especially the ones who potentially don't have the most combat oriented powers see cipher, but I think on this level, it's, it's totally different, you've, you've not got cipher jumping in front of a bullet full of Spain.
• 1:33:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: you've not got sink being unable to sink with my nails, powers, to your protect yourself from the bomb.
• 1:33:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: You have somebody who's literal power is I bring them to water and look like Kathulu had a fun time with my mum.
• 1:33:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like that's literally his power and he was ripped apart by a tree man.
• 1:34:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like I don't quite understand how, er, it's a difficult one to come back from, I think, is, is my point.
• 1:34:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I also like to note and like this is a side thing to that is like he had like then eventually so he could see so much he was spread all over.
• 1:34:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: So he like Tom knew what was going on at the mansion like on the ground was like he knew about all the different kids and like you could argue he knew like which ones were an actual threat to him and which ones weren't.
• 1:34:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And at that stage of his mutation like there really wasn't anything he couldn't really do.
• 1:34:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Even when Jagger not did basically like rip him to shreds he was like yeah, I need a problem for me.
• 1:34:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to regenerate over here.
• 1:34:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's fine.
• 1:34:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: I've had Chuck Austin on the show a couple of times now, but if you haven't heard them yet, go listen to the first interview I did with Chuck, and then go listen to my squid boy episode with Chuck.
• 1:34:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: Another one that's really interesting is the Maximus Lobo episode, and then I have one that's only out on the Patreon about on Azazel.
• 1:34:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: So like I've had a lot of the big Chuck moments where we've talked about the Drake Go and knowing Chuck has helped me like these stories a lot better.
• 1:35:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: So that's a 21 out of 30 and that takes us to trial 0.5, which we're calling the Devil's Own Bonfire.
• 1:35:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is New Excalibur 6 and 7, yet I made Daniel read it twice.
• 1:35:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: for Black hair and outfits, Deadpool 58 through 60.
• 1:35:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: Uncanny X-Men, volume four, numbers 11 through 14 and X-Men blue, number one.
• 1:35:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: The Daniel Wilson is our drain member here.
• 1:35:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, weird story.
• 1:35:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: The shadow X-Men, evil alternate shadow versions of the X-Men are getting sent to prison, a mysterious ward and kills the dazzler who can't die, but she dies by vines here before she resurrects.
• 1:35:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: And we learned that the warden of this weird prison
• 1:35:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Air for profit in a caper that pitted him against Juggernaut in the X-Men, and Daniel Wilson and I, it's not out yet.
• 1:35:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: We've recorded a black air episode, so we're two of the three people in the world who understand this fucking organization at this point right now.
• 1:36:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: When Tom ends up abandoned by his
• 1:36:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: allies, he takes a hostage, Juggernaut corners him, and Tom explains that on M. Day, he had woken up as himself again, not as the altered plant monster who had killed Squidboy.
• 1:36:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: So he's back in control, but also now running a prison, which is maybe where he feels most at home.
• 1:36:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
• 1:36:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, at Juggernaut's pleading, Tom gave up the hostage and surrenders, later came visits Tom in prison, wondering if they could ever a few redeemed for their past.
• 1:36:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: And Tom confesses that he feels guilt over Sam's death every day, and that he wasn't himself when he killed the boy.
• 1:36:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: Later, Black Box, who also has a Patreon on my show this month.
• 1:36:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: He hires Tom to kill Deadpool, and he controls a massive tree during the fight, and Tom ends up with a bullet grazing his skull, and then getting set on fire and a truly disturbing series of events, also involving Black Swan, who also has a Patreon this month on Great
• 1:36:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: Black Tom is later in the position of the white bishop of the Hellfire club, but you forgot that was a thing.
• 1:37:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: And Sebastian Shaw is there, as is Monet, but in this world she's M, hyphen plate.
• 1:37:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: And so just the letter M plate, she's mutated.
• 1:37:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: The club takes an active stand against the someday corporation, a company that's offering to put mutants in suspended animation to protect them from getting infected.
• 1:37:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: with the Inhuman Terrogen Cloud Disease M-Pox, but they've actually been weaponizing mutants instead.
• 1:37:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: So we get a cool moment, one issue of Tom in the Hellfire Club.
• 1:37:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: Later, turning back to crime, Black Tom and Juggernaut come into your entire yacht, but the time-traveling teenage ex-men teleport in and defeat them.
• 1:37:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: After this is when we get Krikoa, but Tom is guiltless on Krikoa.
• 1:37:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: We just love him there, no matter what.
• 1:37:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: Let me turn it over to Daniel.
• 1:37:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: reading that Excalibate issue.
• 1:37:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: I have said this previously, but I owned that in trade pay for back, and when I was rereading this for this trial, I could not remember reading this originally, by at all, like that's how we did this story is.
• 1:38:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: So if anybody's ever going to tell me they understand this era of Excalibate, don't lie to me.
• 1:38:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: Don't lie to me, you don't.
• 1:38:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, I'll start with the prosecution.
• 1:38:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: So, folk of the jury, I'm here to present an argument for why you should consider Black Tom Cassidy, the devil's own bonfire, or rather due to his ineptness that this
• 1:38:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: There can be no denying that Mr. Cassidy participated in a terrorist attack on London.
• 1:38:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: Under the terrorism act of 2000, while he may not have actively caused loss of life during this assault, he did not was going to have failed to disclose this to the relevant authorities, and that carries a ten-year custodial sentence in and of itself.
• 1:38:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: add to that the fact that the ultimate goal of this action was to release seriously dangerous super-powered individuals into the care of a shadowy organisation.
• 1:38:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm most push for additional charges to be served to the defend.
• 1:38:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: Furthermore, Mr Cassidy also held civilian hostage, caused a contributed to property damage, further injuries with his mechanical vines that the text shows is unclear whether he was controlling or not, and perhaps most criminally of all, the actual murder of Popstarlet Dazzler.
• 1:38:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's then gone on to actively take a contract to
• 1:39:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, and while he understandably struggled with the notion of killing dead bullets to the just capturing him, can we say that we understand his attack on law enforcement officers, who were just attempting to de-escalate the situation.
• 1:39:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: Why he even used an entire truck of longs to channel his power.
• 1:39:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: His power that is already deadly just when he uses a shellily, but through giant logs, these were innocent men and women of law enforcement, whose only crime was to try and de-escalate a stop and search where the target
• 1:39:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: to holding weapons and explosives.
• 1:39:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: In addition, Mr. Cassidy actively sought membership of the Hellfire Club, a most sinister cabal of the wealthy and powerful, and Miley may claim to have had good intentions, but I'm not satisfied he's being entirely truthful.
• 1:39:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: This was his big shot to sit in the big kids table, alongside such heavy hit as his Sebastian Shore and Magnet Oak.
• 1:39:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: We then see him holding hostages at sea in a situation where he felt that he couldn't be stopped.
• 1:39:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: And not for the first time, he attacked with intent to kill teenagers, miners.
• 1:39:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: This defendant has shown time and again to be a bloodthirsty and unrepentantantantantant killer.
• 1:39:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: Be that the public, law enforcement, pop icons, superheroes, mercenaries, people richer than him, or teenagers, it just does not matter who his targets are.
• 1:40:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: He doesn't care.
• 1:40:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: This is just an angry angry man, only wants to kill.
• 1:40:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: I employ you to find this man guilty, the prosecution rest.
• 1:40:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: My learned colleague would have you believe that Black Tom was complicit in the planning and execution of Black as plan, including the terrorist attack that caused extreme loss of life, and I say simply this, prove it, prove that he knew in advance, or even agreed with the course of action.
• 1:40:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: After all, he did eventually harm himself in on the best of his boyfriend.
• 1:40:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry, best friend, uh, quotes.
• 1:40:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: Juggernaut.
• 1:40:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: Miss Blair, Dazzler herself, said that Black Tom killed her.
• 1:40:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: Sheer hyperbally, Miss Blair is still alive and well in telling so many stories about being killed and yet is alive.
• 1:40:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: The woman cannot be trusted as a reliable narrator.
• 1:40:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: And let's be honest, at this point in her career, if she was to be playing in your back garden, you'd have closed the window and drawn the curtains.
• 1:40:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: Absolute attention seeking lies from a fallen diva in her floppy era, frankly.
• 1:40:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: I object, this is not the first of just that.
• 1:40:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: Not yet, not yet.
• 1:40:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: Don't come for me, Dazzler
• 1:41:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'd also urge the jury to consider that Mr. Cassidy is never shown the ability to control anything mechanical, so how is it supposed to believe that his abilities diminished after M. Day would then allow him to control mechanical plans.
• 1:41:10
  [SPEAKER_04]: Make it make sense.
• 1:41:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's also been charged with attempting to kill Deadpool, Deadpool.
• 1:41:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, may any member of the jury who is not being tempted to kill Deadpool raise their hand and should they raise their hand remember that lying to yourself is the saddest of all lies.
• 1:41:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: Mr. Cassidy joined the Hellfire Club to destroy the
• 1:41:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: a group that was not only fleecing mutants looking for a way to avoid the towerging cloud, but were actively weaponizing them.
• 1:41:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: He fought side-by-side with such luminary actmen as siloque, Monet San Juan, and then, okay, we're just gonna gloss over the rest of that ruster at the time shall we butt, that does not mean that it wasn't a heroic and calculated use of hellfire club resources.
• 1:41:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: As for the alleged hostage situation at sea, if you ever considered that he was just on a cruise with his boyfriend, best friend, have you?
• 1:41:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: And what would have happened, had he not attacked the junior team, would time displace Jean Grey of casually and publicly outward him and juggernaut as she did her own teammate, Mr. Cassidy has undoubtedly committed heinous acts across his colorful career.
• 1:42:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's no doubt about that, but in this instance, for these charges, wow, you simply cannot find this man guilty based on nothing but alleged attempted criminal activity.
• 1:42:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: I personally attempt to win the lottery every week.
• 1:42:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: Does that make me a millionaire?
• 1:42:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'll ask no.
• 1:42:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: So folks of the jury, the only sane logical and palpable choice here is to find my client in this of these charges.
• 1:42:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: They're defense rests.
• 1:42:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: You guys, I have hilarious and wonderful friends.
• 1:42:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm so grateful for all of you.
• 1:42:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is a genuine delight.
• 1:42:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: They're just the roasting alone with the
• 1:42:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: this is an interesting section of Black Tom's history.
• 1:42:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like the reclamation, right?
• 1:42:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's like realizing he has remorse and then the decisions he's making moving forward become a little bit more noble leading toward Cracoa, which we didn't talk enough about today.
• 1:42:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: But Ben Percy writing Black Tom is fucking hilarious.
• 1:42:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's so funny through that entire series.
• 1:42:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's just truly delightful.
• 1:42:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: I would just like to clarify again the roast in of
• 1:43:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Michael.
• 1:43:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: I love her too, but it's not been a flop there.
• 1:43:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Not.
• 1:43:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, Perry, that's too much.
• 1:43:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: You have to take that back.
• 1:43:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: I absolutely will not.
• 1:43:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: She'll not encounter.
• 1:43:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I also just have to see.
• 1:43:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Any time Black Tom is trying to get on a yacht with his boyfriend.
• 1:43:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: I support it.
• 1:43:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let those gays go off to see.
• 1:43:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: They want to be in the Navy.
• 1:43:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: So that's a 13 out of 30 on that last one, which gives us a total of, gives us a 57% on the asshole skill, which is frankly a lot lower than I expected.
• 1:43:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: But we do run into this with some characters where once they become taken over by some kind of entity, it will lower the scores, right?
• 1:43:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: How are we feeling about Black Tom Cassidy as we're wrapping up our thoughts?
• 1:43:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: I am more fond of him than I thought.
• 1:43:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: At the start of this, you heard me like,
• 1:43:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: My friend of him after this conversation, delightful would love to write this character.
• 1:43:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think he's a lot of fun.
• 1:43:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I feel like I've grown to appreciate him more.
• 1:43:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I have whole graduates on the cancer.
• 1:44:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: So.
• 1:44:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll never forgive him for a good but but now I think that like I said I've grown to appreciate him as I've seen the consistency Like this has been a great kind of overview of a lot of me to like appreciate the character in a way that I didn't think I would I need to go and like do the the deep read of X force in the Kirk Owen era It was one of the books.
• 1:44:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was like I'll pick that up occasionally But now that I've like done all of this reading like okay now I really want to go and see like the difference in him You know from this like sporadic criminal to like now we're like okay
• 1:44:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: He has a lot of different moments with like sage and beast in it.
• 1:44:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because you know, I love extreme xman.
• 1:44:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I love sage and I love all of them.
• 1:44:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I'm numb.
• 1:44:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can find me on my Instagram, number one xman cosplay.
• 1:44:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be running around being a menace when this airs at cons on the east coast.
• 1:44:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: So hopefully I'll see some of you guys around there.
• 1:44:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and fun fact, uh, Fabian, you see as a end-bend person, both wrote this character as queer.
• 1:44:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: Claremont, for sure wrote them as queer, but Justin was not in on the joke.
• 1:45:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: Chuck Austin was writing North Star and Iceman as queer, but not Juggernaut and Black Top.
• 1:45:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: That was not a thing that he picked up on.
• 1:45:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: So interesting.
• 1:45:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: Robin, go ahead.
• 1:45:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: and he might see that he wasn't right in the most queer, but he absolutely was.
• 1:45:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: That era is Black Tom painting after his boyfriend going through a compulsory heterosexuality era, and we all can see it.
• 1:45:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Final thoughts at my
• 1:45:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: like real introduction to Tom was in the Krakow era before that he had really just been a kind of bit rate villain I'd not really cared much about.
• 1:45:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going back to all of the stuff and sort of reappraising it with the idea of that's his info that's kind of where he ends up.
• 1:45:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's really fun to see him just, I've said it a few times now, Vincent pricing it up and just being the most damn diva possible.
• 1:45:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love this man.
• 1:45:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is iconic.
• 1:45:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: He has done some heinous things.
• 1:45:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: But honestly, in the world of X man who hasn't, if the guy I pray, I support him, more gaze should be villainous.
• 1:46:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And my name is Robert Muffet.
• 1:46:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you want to check hair on social media, you can find me on blue sky at red, rested Robin with a Y.
• 1:46:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you are a fan of drag and you want to check out my drag social media, you can go to Instagram at October, underscore fist.
• 1:46:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you want to see a German themed Scottish drag queen living in Japan,
• 1:46:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, going back to it, I sort of really thought, yeah, this character's all over the place, but actually when you read it in order, the whole thing tracks it makes sense.
• 1:46:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: For character who's been written by so many authors over so many years, it's a long-form story up leading to the end of Krakawa, and I'd love to see him get his due now, the same way the site should be.
• 1:46:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a hero now.
• 1:46:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: He should be treated the same way the Jaguar is, and honestly, he should be in that book as well.
• 1:46:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I'm Christian Smith, you can follow me on Instagram and Blue Sky, Chris E1701 with normal nerdy comics, Star Trek, and general berry stuff.
• 1:47:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Time this is, I will probably be on some of vacation so that anyone is bumbling around London and what's to hang out, give me a yell, and I'm sure we'll sort of the now.
• 1:47:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: It would be really interesting for me to see like a Hellfire Club that was allied with the X-Men, but they like have different purposes and different ways of doing things.
• 1:47:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: And watching Black Tom back on the Hellfire Club, which is a pretty recent thing in his history, in that type of role working in some complex alliances.
• 1:47:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: There's some really interesting potential for that character there.
• 1:47:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's fascinating in my brain.
• 1:47:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: I agree because like that's the fancy kind of gay aspect that he loves to live in so the fact that it took him that long to work his way into the Hellfire Club seems funny to me like he feels like he belongs in that world but I always had a crush on Black Tom so I've always loved him.
• 1:47:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and I kind of love where he's ended up.
• 1:47:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: I love the correct koera for him.
• 1:47:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think there's more for him to be explored there.
• 1:47:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: He was very much a background character because they didn't, you know, he was a very solitary kind of figure in a way.
• 1:48:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, but I love him in that role and I thought there was something really cool about that.
• 1:48:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: So, uh, I'm just happy that he's around and hasn't been ruined necessarily as the character for somebody who's been around as long as he has.
• 1:48:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, so I am delighted by Black Tom and I was so happy to be on this trial.
• 1:48:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: So thank you.
• 1:48:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: My name's Kevin Canary, he him, and I'm not really on social media much anymore.
• 1:48:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: But you can find me on the Grey Lock and Lane Patreon channel, doing a curing feature with Chad called Timmy Whyme, where we follow the path of Kang the Conqueror, and all his iterations traveling through time.
• 1:48:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: And we also review sci-fi movies that are related to time travel.
• 1:48:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's, uh, whoop!
• 1:48:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: We really, we really have a good time.
• 1:48:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello, hello, I'm so my whole thing with Black Tom, going into this, obviously I agree to be part of this trial, and I was like,
• 1:48:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I was like, well, it's not going to be as in depth as some of the other ones that I've listened to, or the one that the previous one I was part of, and the more looked at it with them, I was like, maybe not as in depth, but actually realistically, it's a character with a really rich history, someone who's been along, being around as long as some of the big hit is in the X-Men, like Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus Wolverine, he doesn't really, you know, they don't predate him by that much really, he's just one of those who sort of appears disappears comes back.
• 1:49:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's always a wild time, like even, you know, with us just saying, you know, him kill in squid boy and things like that, you know, again, if you look at it with that through line now of from where he was to where he is at the end of the Krakowan era, it kind of makes sense.
• 1:49:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's that whole sort of going mad, you're power driving you crazy kind of thing.
• 1:49:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: I've got a bit more respect for him now than I think I did before I started this trial.
• 1:49:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: And definitely with Robin sort of quite even being the Vincent price of X men villains, that I'm definitely going to start rereading him with that in mind.
• 1:49:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's fantastic.
• 1:49:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: Wellington underscore boot.
• 1:49:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: I am on Chapman Blake's podcast subtextman episode of that coming up with some of my friends and also being cast as part of an audio drama called Fictitious Events which is about horror films coming to life in weird torch woody x files e kind of ways that should be out by the back end of June I think question mark but we don't quite know yet because editing processes are the devil but yes that's me thank you for having me again
• 1:50:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: I really enjoyed the time with all of you today.
• 1:50:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you so much.
• 1:50:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: These are so thoughtful and it's just great to laugh with friends.
• 1:50:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's such a break from the world.
• 1:50:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, lastly, you can find my social media account for the show at Grame often under score lane.
• 1:50:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: I released a book.
• 1:50:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's called Gameorm and Dad.
• 1:50:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's available.
• 1:50:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: If you have read it, I would love for you to put a review on Goodreads.
• 1:50:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm excited about the potential for this book.
• 1:50:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I hope it has the potential to help a lot of people.
• 1:50:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: Super proud of it.
• 1:50:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: And lastly, at the end of these, I always announce the next three trials on the show in July on Grey Malkin Lane.
• 1:50:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: The theme will be wings, and we are going to do the trial of Adrian Tomb's The Vulture.
• 1:50:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: One of my all-time favorite Marvel villains, who has more of an X-Men history than you realize.
• 1:50:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: In August on the show, the theme will be the Dark Force, and we are going to do the trial of Linear Petrovna, or Dark Star, and lastly, in September on the show, the highly anticipated trial of Victor Creed Saber Tooth.
• 1:51:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: and the theme on the Patreon is going to be claws.
• 1:51:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: So we're gonna have a really good time all around.
• 1:51:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: I can't wait to see some of you releasing at this at the end of June.
• 1:51:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: So the next time you can see me publicly, we'll be at FlameCon in New York City and the uncanny experience in Minneapolis in August and September.
• 1:51:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: Much love to all of you.
• 1:51:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: Please take care of yourselves out there.
• 1:51:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: Happy Pride Month with Black Tom Cassidy.
• 1:51:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: We'll see you back here next week on the Grand Monkey Lane Show.
• 1:51:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you for listening to Grimalk and Lane.
• 1:51:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: We hope you are enjoying this podcast.
• 1:51:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: Grimalk and Lane is produced and recorded in Salt Lake City, Utah, with music and editing done by my husband, Michael Bell, and promo art done by the incredible Seth Martell.
• 1:51:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: Look for us on Patreon, where we are releasing weekly episodes about obscure characters and facts.
• 1:51:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a great way to participate with the podcast for only just a couple of dollars a month and it helps support what we are doing here.
• 1:52:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: Also, the best way you can help with
• 1:52:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: Grimmulkin Lane is by sharing and liking and subscribing, but also please leave us a review wherever you listen to your podcasts.
• 1:52:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: We'll see you back your next time on Grimmulkin Lane.