Latest / The One Oʻahu Podcast with Mayor Rick Blangiardi / CCSR's Sarah Harris and Madeline Krueger on updated FEMA Flood Insurance Rate Maps

Transcript

CCSR's Sarah Harris and Madeline Krueger on updated FEMA Flood Insurance Rate Maps · The One Oʻahu Podcast with Mayor Rick Blangiardi

0:15
Welcome to the One Oahu podcast.
0:16
I'm your host, Brandi Higa, and today is Thursday, March 27th, 2025.
0:21
And we're joined this week by Sarah Harris,
0:24
Hazard mitigation and long term disaster recovery program manager
0:29
in the Mayor's Office of Climate Change, Sustainability and Resiliency.
0:33
That title takes up work for life.
0:35
Yeah, it's a mouthful.
0:37
But thank you so much for being here.
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And also Madeline Krueger. Madeline, what's your title?
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I'm a sea Grant Grau fellow.
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Also on that long term disaster recovery and Hazard
0:46
Mitigation Team and Cser.
0:49
So a long title.
0:51
But thank you all for being here.
0:52
Thank you for having us.
0:54
So let's start off first with what we're here for.
0:56
This came out recently in the news for FEMA, for Matt.
1:00
What is that exactly?
1:02
Great question.
1:03
So Fima is the Federal Emergency Management Agency,
1:07
and they are kind of responsible.
1:09
Their kuleana is really to help reduce risks in our community
1:12
and also help communities if there's been a disaster event recover.
1:15
So part of that like risk reduction and that proactive piece
1:19
that they're really trying to do is through things like these for Maps.
1:22
So that acronym stands for flood insurance rate maps.
1:25
So firms are just tools for communities
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to better understand where they have higher risk for flooding
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and really to educate, inform community members on those risks.
1:34
So this is FEMA's thing.
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But why is CSR involved CSRS involved?
1:39
We're working with the Department of Planning and Permitting, along with,
1:44
the state agency Department of Land and Natural Resources,
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and we're all working collectively to get the message out
1:52
that the firm maps are being updated and, letting people know that they need
1:57
to go and check with their flood risk is and whether or not it's changed.
2:02
The city is also actively working to lower the cost burden
2:07
of flood insurance, and we're doing that through,
2:11
participating in the National Flood Insurance programs Community
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Rating system, which currently results in a 10% discount for Nfip policyholders.
2:21
I think that. Yeah.
2:22
So it's kind of cool because it's not just cser.
2:24
It really is like a city, state and federal collaborative,
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which I think makes it all the more important because all levels of government
2:32
are really interested and want to make sure
2:34
communities know what the flood risk is, and also what
2:37
we're doing to get that message out about flooding and flood risk.
2:40
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of understandable
2:42
that situations change and that and in turn risk changes.
2:46
But why was there a change to these maps?
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So previously in our last four maps,
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the 78% of O'ahu was labeled as flood zone D, which is undetermined risk,
3:00
meaning that we didn't have a good understanding of how much
3:03
flood risk was in any certain area that was mapped.
3:06
Flood zone D and flood zones.
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Flood risk changes over time, and this can be due to land
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use development, changing weather patterns and erosion.
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And so, there was a study done
3:21
in for these maps where,
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FEMA worked with the city to study 22 new stream reaches
3:28
that were previously unmapped and that spans
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400 miles of Oahu.
3:34
What was that last?
3:35
I guess, series of maps put out.
3:37
So it's been about 25 years since the previous firm map was done.
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And so our understanding is that this most recent study, I think Madelynn
3:45
mentioned, kicked off in 2019 and that it was kind of a result
3:50
of those 2018 floods here on Oahu and Kaua'i.
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And so we really realized as a community, like we don't have a great understanding.
3:58
Like Madelynn mentioned, 78% of the island was that flood zone D,
4:02
which means undetermined risk.
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So there really was a need to have better understanding of what our risk is.
4:09
And that's kind of one thing we didn't talk about.
4:11
So that 2019 study used hydrologic and hydraulic data.
4:15
So those are water studies essentially to really figure out
4:19
like where is water flowing, how is it flowing and where are we
4:23
maybe not capturing risk accurately on our current firms.
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So if they want to look that up or find more information,
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you know, am I in those zones where where can they go?
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You can visit resilient oahu.org/get flood ready.
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And there's a button that you can click to view your property and see if your risk
4:41
has changed between the previous firms and this update.
4:45
And we haven't really talked about it yet. Today.
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But I think one of
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the big things that people need to know is that when you go and look at that map,
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those higher risk areas are known as special flood hazard areas.
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And those areas are the ones that are identified of having higher flood risk.
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And so they are actually regulated by the city and county
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differently than those lower or undetermined risk areas.
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So what kind of ways are they regulated differently.
5:10
What will they be required to. Yeah.
5:13
So yeah.
5:14
So because the city is a participant in the National Flood Insurance Program,
5:18
which is a great program, it offers flood insurance, letter, federally backed
5:22
policies to community members in participating communities like Oahu.
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So if you are in a special flood hazard area, though oftentimes
5:30
if you have a federally backed loan or mortgage, your lender
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may require you to obtain flood insurance just because of that higher risk.
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And additionally, as being a participating nfip community,
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we also regulate development in special flood hazard areas differently.
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Just because we know that there's more risk for flooding there.
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So we have to build buildings different.
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So if you're in one of those zones, you may be required
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to have flood insurance and you will be required to comply with
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Revised Ordinance of Honolulu, chapter 21.
5:59
But can you talk about the appeal process?
6:03
Yes. So
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while we do recognize, you know, that the study done by FEMA
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is using the best available data out there,
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sometimes, like Madalyn mentioned, flood risk is different.
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It changes.
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Maybe your property owner you've done something different, or the data
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that FEMA used for your area is maybe not quite right.
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So if you find that, hey, you know, I think that my designation, I'm
6:24
now in a special flood hazard area. That's wrong.
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So I want to make a formal appeal.
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So that formal appeal process is open for 90 days.
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It's open now through June 10th.
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You can submit in writing directly to FEMA your formal appeal request.
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But with that, if you're submitting an appeal, you have to include either
6:42
technical or scientific data signed off by a certified either
6:46
engineer or land surveyor that shows where and how FEMA study got it wrong.
6:51
But FEMA is also seeking comments on the maps as well, because, you know,
6:54
sometimes they don't always have the best insight on road names or places.
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So they want to make sure those are right
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location names and other basemap features.
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So community members
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can also review the maps and just submit comments on that as well.
7:07
And then what happens now?
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So these appeals come in.
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And what happens after the 90 days is up and one year.
7:14
Yeah.
7:14
So that's that's really FEMA's role in this.
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So they want to make sure, you know,
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before these firms become effective and those requirements for flood insurance
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and regulatory standards and these new map parcels become effective,
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that they've had that opportunity to get input from the community.
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So they review everything that submitted.
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They make a determination on it.
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Hey, you know what this property owner is totally correct.
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Turns out that their property maybe shouldn't be
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that based on what they've shared with us.
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They'll then update those preliminary firms.
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They'll also make updates to any comments received, if applicable.
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Incorporate all of that.
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And then they issue something called a letter of final determination.
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And once the city receives that letter of final determination,
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it pretty much means like, hey, these maps, that's it.
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That's them for now.
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You now have six months to kind of get your house in order.
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And that and that for us, as the city's okay, we got to make sure
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our floodplain ordinance is updated for this new update
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and for community members, that means, hey,
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you got to really start getting serious about getting flood insurance.
8:13
You mentioned the way that the city
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kind of helps with that, but are there ways to help local people
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offset some of these added costs some families will be taking on?
8:21
Yeah.
8:22
So the city, along with participating in IP, the National Flood
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Insurance program, we also participate
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in the CRS or the community rating system.
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And this is a voluntary program that the city entered
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to try to help offset those costs.
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So by actions that the city has taken, we're currently
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ranked as a class eight community, which means that,
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all Nfip policyholders will benefit
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from 10% off of their policies.
8:57
You mentioned that these are some of these are national programs.
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And I'm sure that you folks have gotten this question with the broad
9:02
cuts in Washington and potentially more, comment along the way.
9:06
What are the impacts that you anticipate, and is there anything that you can do
9:09
now, maybe to offset what could be coming down?
9:14
So I think like many other communities,
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we really don't have a clear idea of what may be happening in Washington.
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It seems to change day to day.
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But what we're doing now is really just trying
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to inform community members that this is happening.
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Whatever plays out at the federal level, these preliminary maps are moving
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forward with the support of FEMA and our community.
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And we're always assessing new ways that we can continue to improve our rating
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in the community rating system so that we can keep improving
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the amount of insurance policy discounts that we can help the community receive.
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What kind of penalty is there for folks,
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you know, in these revised zones that maybe think, what if I do nothing?
9:57
Is there a consequence for no action?
10:00
Yeah.
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If you don't have a flood insurance policy and you end up flooding,
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there's not going to be the, financial support
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that you would have if you had a policy in place.
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Additionally, because now you are required to comply
10:16
with those regulatory standards, if you decide to build
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without that, you may be liable to fines and other challenges
10:22
through your development process.
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And the most unfortunate one, I think, is that right now,
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there's a lot of opportunity for homeowners to get quotes, look at
10:31
different flood insurance providers, really pick the best policy for them.
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If they take no action, more than likely their lender will force apply a policy,
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which means the lender then picks whatever policy they want,
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whatever coverage they want, whatever cost they want.
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And that's done.
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Just applied to a homeowner or whoever's mortgage or loan amount.
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So by taking action now, you really have that control
10:55
over the policy you get and the price that you you have to pay out.
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So insurance is one way to protect yourself.
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But I know that there are other ways to make your home more flood ready.
11:05
What what's your advice?
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What can folks do?
11:07
Yeah.
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So I think the first thing is really to know your flood risk.
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So we really are encouraging folks to go to our website.
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Resilient O'ahu dot org forward slash get flood ready.
11:17
We have a viewer there that shows the current firms versus
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the preliminary firms.
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So start there and know your flood risk.
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And we haven't really talked about that yet today.
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But even if you're not within a special flood
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hazard area, that doesn't mean that you have no risk of flooding.
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So flood insurance, even if you're not required to have it,
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is still really that first barrier of protection for residents.
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So we really encourage people to check that out.
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Additionally, Madalyn, what else do you think folks can do?
11:46
There there's some easy steps that you can take,
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after you get to know what your hazard risk is like having
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an emergency plan in place for your family and building a disaster supply kit.
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Additionally, there are some things that you can do to make your home
12:01
more resilient, such as installing wet or dry flood proofing, installing
12:06
downspouts and gutters, and making sure that they're clear of debris.
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Raising electrical equipment to above ground level.
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And, having storing all of your important documents
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in a waterproof container
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are just a couple of really easy, simple things that you can do.
12:27
Yeah. Yeah.
12:28
All good tips.
12:29
Madeline, where were you before this?
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I was in my master's program at Hawaii Pacific University.
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Is this what you always wanted to do?
12:38
Hazard mitigation wasn't
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necessarily where I thought I'd land.
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My master's is in marine science, but I've really enjoyed this opportunity,
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and, kind of opened my eyes to a whole different way
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to use my degree, so I've really enjoyed it.
12:53
Sara, what about you? Where were you before this?
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So I was working for a consulting firm here on Oahu,
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but my background is actually in wildlife biology.
13:03
Oh, so. Yeah,
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so also hazard mitigation is not really where I saw myself
13:09
as a young person going, but, I'm really happy to be here now.
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And I really am happy to do the work to prepare
13:16
our communities for climate change and climate hazard impacts.
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How did you get here?
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I actually went to U-H long, long ago
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and I didn't graduate from there, but I feel like I never left.
13:27
So I moved back, maybe like six years ago with my husband.
13:32
And jumped into climate versus wildlife.
13:36
Yeah. So,
13:38
when I was working as a wildlife biologist,
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I was exposed to a lot of environmental regulation and policy.
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So I was really interested in that.
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Went back and got my master's in land use and environmental policy.
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And then from that, I, I started working for a firm here doing land use planning.
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Hazard mitigation and long term disaster recovery.
13:58
I mean, that's title in itself, pretty extensive.
14:01
Yeah, I know that that that covers a lot.
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So what's something that you would want me to ask you about?
14:06
Maybe there's like common misconceptions or topics you really want folks
14:09
to know about that you don't get to talk about often enough? Oh.
14:14
I'm not sure that we don't get to talk about it, but I would say
14:17
that, one thing that our program
14:21
is really proud of is recently having our,
14:26
long term disaster recovery plan
14:28
for Oahu published, and so that's available for people,
14:33
if they're curious about stats that the city wants to take
14:36
in the event of a disaster.
14:38
And so that was a way that we were able to make sure that our community is set up
14:42
prior to a disaster occurring.
14:46
And is that just like I mean, we're talking a lot about climate things.
14:49
So that's flood.
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Wildfire.
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What does that cover?
14:53
Yeah, that covers any major disaster.
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So anything that would result in a disaster declaration,
14:58
either at the local level or the,
15:02
national level.
15:03
And it really just is it provides a framework.
15:08
So I think modeling has kind of touched on a lot of like the key outcomes of it.
15:11
But in order to operationalize it, it establishes
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a framework that the city can choose to use to leverage.
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And so there's a very big large scale disaster event.
15:22
And then it also showcases ways that the city and community
15:26
can work together to make sure that long term recovery
15:29
so that months, two years after a disaster has happened, it's more equitable,
15:34
it's culturally informed, and it's inclusive so that we make sure
15:37
nobody on island is left behind in that recovery process.
15:40
Yeah, that's an important thing for folks to take a look at.
15:42
But going back to the plan that you just mentioned,
15:44
you know, when we talk about things like flooding, wildfire
15:48
that kind of has an identical role when it comes to the planning
15:51
as the Department of Emergency Management, how is the how does this differ?
15:55
So the plan was developed
15:57
in partnership with the the Department of Emergency Management.
16:01
But they are primarily more in the space of short
16:07
term like immediate response, where the long term disaster recovery
16:12
is kind of a citywide effort that's going to require
16:16
everybody involved stepping up,
16:20
to make sure that Oahu can get back to
16:23
we're hoping that we can bounce forward after a disaster.
16:27
And, Sarah, would you like to add anything?
16:31
I think you really
16:33
nailed the roles and responsibilities between our, our program.
16:36
And, and I will say to you, though, we are very fortunate,
16:39
we collaborate on a lot of stuff with them.
16:41
In addition to that response, they're also really responsible for preparedness.
16:46
As our ridiculously long title clarifies,
16:49
we do hazard mitigation, but we do that with DHM.
16:53
We're working right now with them on updating our local hazard mitigation plan,
16:57
and that is kind of coming back to that proactive piece of like
17:01
understanding the risk across all those hazards you mentioned
17:04
and more, and kind of coming up with different strategies and actions.
17:07
The city and then hopefully the community can also take to reduce those risks.
17:11
That was Madeline's answer.
17:12
But Sarah, for you, I mean, what would you want me to ask you about?
17:16
Oh, what do you want folks to know?
17:19
I think what I want folks to know is that while there's
17:22
a really big misconception that the government doesn't care,
17:26
and the government is really just let community
17:30
like down a lot, that's not what's happening here.
17:33
We have an office full of incredibly passionate people
17:37
about the work that we're doing.
17:39
We're constantly pushing for more community inclusion,
17:43
more consideration of what the community needs and how to improve
17:47
those outcomes of the work we do, both as an office and the city at large.
17:52
And so I think I just want people to know, like,
17:55
we care, we're here, we care, we're working for you.
18:00
And not just because we want to do a job.
18:04
It means more than that.
18:06
When you talk about risk and mitigating, I mean, these are all bad things.
18:12
But but that's not what your job is.
18:13
What's the best part of your job?
18:16
What brings you joy in this job?
18:18
Disasters aside. Yeah.
18:21
For me personally, I think that brings me joy
18:23
in this job is just the community components.
18:26
Like, we recently did a flood outreach project prior to these firms,
18:30
totally separate from that,
18:32
where we realized, like, we don't have a lot of understanding at the city's scale
18:36
of like what the community has actually experienced with flooding,
18:40
what their knowledge of their flood risk
18:41
is, and like, what barriers to access to that information are.
18:45
So we worked with a market research firm.
18:48
We did a massive survey and outreach campaign across the whole county,
18:53
and we learned like 1 in 3
18:55
residents have either first or second hand experience of flooding.
18:58
And we also like learned that of those that directly flooded,
19:03
over half of them didn't have flood insurance at the time.
19:06
And like what a barrier that was for recovery, both in terms of time,
19:09
the cost compared to the residents that did have flood insurance.
19:13
So it was really cool to learn that because then we could take
19:16
all this information.
19:17
We put together this whole outreach campaign.
19:20
It was all over the summer, and we followed back up with those
19:23
same people that we had initially surveyed.
19:26
And a like
19:29
2 or 3 out of ten people, essentially, if we just aggregate,
19:32
we're like, hey, I learned something, and I started
19:35
taking actions to reduce my own flood risk.
19:38
So to me, that was awesome because it doesn't seem like a lot,
19:41
but because of the things that we did, we helped educate people
19:45
and now they were all like,
19:46
I feel so much more informed and empowered, and I just feel like
19:49
I have a better understanding of why risk is and what I can do.
19:52
So I thought that was really cool. Like.
19:55
I don't know what made. Me really happy.
19:57
Yeah, now I understand that accessibility is important, but sometimes,
20:01
that information is harder for people, especially when you are
20:03
now in that new zone and you will be required
20:07
to follow the new regulations and fair insurance.
20:10
But, Madeline, what about for you?
20:11
What's what's the happiest part of this job?
20:13
Besides breaking that news to some people.
20:14
I think, I, I really would kind of echo Sarah and say
20:19
that, just empowering the community to take action to,
20:24
prepare themselves better.
20:25
And anything that's that you can do before a disaster
20:29
strikes is just making recovery that much easier.
20:34
So I think just like knowing
20:37
really knowing your risk for whatever the risk is,
20:42
not even just outside of flooding, but just being aware of like how at risk
20:46
you are and steps that you can take to protect yourself and your family.
20:52
Well, thank you so much for your time.
20:53
And what is that website?
20:54
One more time for folks that want to maybe log on and find more information.
20:58
Resilient O'ahu dot org forward slash get flood ready.
21:01
Thank you both.
21:02
Thank you, thank you.
21:04
And next week we'll be back with Mayor Rick Blangiardi.
21:06
Don't forget, if you have a question for the mayor,
21:07
you can slide into our DMs on Instagram or Facebook.
21:10
We'd love to hear from you. Mahalo for listening.
21:12
And until next time, Aloha!