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Michelle Niziol: The Apprentice Exit That Built a Property Empire · The BEYOND Podcast

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  Unknown: in this episode I interview Michelle nizzle who was actually on the same series of apprentice
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  as I was now I might have been a little bit responsible for Michelle getting fired in
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  week one however Michelle isn't bothered because Michelle is running at least seven businesses she
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  has won multiple Awards we go into everything about the apprentice and how to succeed in
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  business as a woman we discuss mental health we discuss what it's like to be a woman in business
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  and winning resp peaceful success so tune [Music] in Michelle welcome to the podcast thank you for I
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  am so happy to have you in I'll tell you the main reason I'm really happy is because you're proving
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  everyone wrong you've gone out in week one on The Apprentice but look at you six seven businesses
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  that you're running successful businesswoman L sugar must be crying crying what happened I was
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  shocked to go out in week one but at the same time I've made the most of it right so let's
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  go back a little bit why did you apply in the first place I've I've run businesses since my
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  early 20s and you know you could probably relate to this it's really lonely and I was a female
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  running businesses so there wasn't back then I'm I certainly wasn't the only female entrepreneur
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  but there wasn't many of us certainly where I live yeah in quite a small Market town so I did
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  it because I was lonely you know because I really wanted to mix with other entrepreneurs and gauge
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  myself against you know how am I doing because I you know from a very early age I've been the
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  boss so it's like H how can you compare yourself against other business owners where you go and put
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  yourself through the biggest TV show you know in the country and see so for me it was a challenge
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  could I actually get on the show and then how could I do on the show so besides feeling that
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  you know you were a bit different what in your personality really just be honest gave you the
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  courage to do this I'm super competitive so you know if I'm going to do something
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  I'm going through this process to win it right um what people don't actually know is I did actually
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  apply for the show was it it was the Olympic year so actually yeah I don't think you knew
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  that did you no I didn't hadn't made it through at that point as you know you never know you're
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  on the show until you're on the show right um so but I I'd made it through a few rounds and
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  I thought you know what I don't think I'm ready for this right now I didn't apply again until
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  was it about six years later um and I just had this gut feeling so I actually applied for The
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  Apprentice 5 minutes before it closed right so literally I think it was me midnight was
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  the closing time um and I just had this I didn't even know that they were the applications were
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  out again um and I just come across it online on social media I think it was um and I just knew
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  that I was going to be a candidate so I just applied know these things I just it was just
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  a got I said on the show spoke to I spoke to a couple of other of the ex- candidates
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  and you just know yeah you just know I I did my application and I thought I'm in so how did you
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  find the interview process you said difficult I wish everyone could experience it because it
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  was the hardest thing that I've ever had to do you know I remember having the UHS meeting with
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  a psychologist and I nearly didn't do the show I nearly pulled out and the psychologist really put
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  me through my Paces because she said do you um Michelle put your baby to bed every night and I
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  said absolutely I do and she said he's not even going to know who you are in the 12we process
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  and that I was just like I can't I went home and spoke to my husband and said I can't do
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  this like I can't do it and he said you are doing it because literally like you I'm not going to put
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  up with you going I could have got on the show I could have got on the show but yeah I nearly
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  didn't do it because of that What feelings did you experience when you got on the show it was quite
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  emotional you know I was made a project manager on the first task you were indeed yeah that's
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  how I got fired um but never be project manager on the no never be project manager on the first
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  time but you know the I was I was super emotional that day so we had a wake up called like 3:00 a.m.
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  and I literally not slept the night before and I remember waking up going into the bathroom doing
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  my makeup and um thinking what have I let myself in for you know serious overwhelming isn't it
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  overwhelming yeah the whole Pro I mean the whole process is set up to absolutely test you and I
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  think again what people don't see is we make silly mistakes on that show because you are literally
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  pushed to your limits well I think we make silly mistakes on the show but the show is also it's
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  a TV production I think which there is business within that but it's also there for entertainment
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  so obviously the stress that's created and the scenarios that the pressure that you put under
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  is deliberate to kind of you know and and as and the lack of family cont contact it's all
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  deliberate to stress you out which would never have in real life but I did enjoy it I really
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  enjoyed it I enjoyed the filming I I absolutely loved getting to know the production team you
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  know that was my favorite part is I love Creative people so you know and in my world in my job in
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  my industry it's very much Professional Services so it's Finance so yes there are some people with
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  creativity but it's not the same as being around people that are making a TV show and that was
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  for me that was that was a blessing I absolutely loved it and hence why since that show I've gone
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  on to do as much TV and media work that I possibly can do because I just absolutely love the process
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  okay so what did you think of some of the other candidates let's be honest now I thought some
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  obviously have got huge characters um I wasn't there to be a celebrity I've never wanted to be
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  a celebrity I've got zero interest in it I think when you go on a show like that you do attract a
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  lot of media attention but that's not why I did it I did it for the experience whereas I think
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  there was some people on the show that obviously went different re think some people wanted to go
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  in for celebrity and do you think they were chosen and selected with that in mind that these are the
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  celebrity people these are business people still do you think so are still smart business people
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  I think every and I think that's another thing that people don't understand about the show every
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  single candidate you would have employed in your business you know that's right you know I I agree
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  with this which is why I wanted this platform as well because it's true every single person that
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  was there had something there was something to them either they were incred actually most were
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  good at sales let's be clear everyone could sell you wouldn't you wouldn't make it on the show if
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  you can't sell um but they all had some sort of business acument and some were crazier than others
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  some were more you know professional let's say some were a little bit more out there but they
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  all had something the crazy thing for me to watch was in the house everybody's your mate and then
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  when it's filming we're ruthless with each other and and the switch is immediate and I found that
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  brilliant because actually that's what I'm like in my business life is right in business you have
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  to turn it on sometimes and actually be someone that you're probably not quite naturally so um you
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  know my husband always says he never would have married business Michelle you know he would have
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  married Shelly and I think that that that was the same Dynamics on the show was when we were in the
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  house we're all friends we're all getting on we all have glass wi with each other I have slightly
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  different take on that in that I am I treat I'm very much like my business my clients you
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  know whoever I'm working with even professionally when I was working for people and now that I have
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  my own business I treat everyone in a similar way I I do have this thing where it's it's all family
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  to me and when someone's close to me the clients are close to me I bring them into my network and
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  I I did find that odd the Turning but I kind of expected it let's say from from some of the
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  candidates it's not necessarily what I would do though yeah I mean I don't mean that um I'm
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  still a really nice person at work it's just I'm a lot uh fiercer I would say that's not necessarily
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  with clients it's it's with I think if you show any sign of weakness say with you show it to the
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  candidates you finished yeah exactly and I think that you know sadly I I've had to have a different
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  type of facade where I'm an absolute real softy at heart you know so I found it difficult in business
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  you have to make decisions that not everybody likes so that that's sort of what I mean um so
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  clients get to know almost Shelly and actually in the business world you know because otherwise
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  people are coming after your business people are coming after your clients you know um and and
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  sadly I've had to behave in in a way where you're very clear you're very direct yes um so that
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  people can't misunderstand or misinterpret what you're saying or where you're coming from whereas
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  at home I'm not like that at all I'm all I'm super fun and relaxed of course and also when you're
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  working with clients a lot of these relationships last years hopefully that's the goal you know 5
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  six seven 8 10 years um and they get to know you the majority of my clients have been with me 20
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  years you know which is crazy awesome um been with me through my journey and I think they've loved
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  watching my journey I think that they're super proud that they've been a part of that you know
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  and also I think the comments that I get quite a lot is it hasn't gone to my head and I'm super
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  grounded and you are grounded you know whether you know even the clients where I might be doing like
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  a 25 Grand mortgage I treat them exactly the same than a client where I'm doing A5 million
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  pound mortgage so although the difference in the money is obviously huge um every client to me is
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  important and every client feels like they're my only client and that's what I've managed to retain
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  to be able to do and I think that is probably one of the secrets of the the success of me running
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  my businesses you know some of these clients have dealt with me 10 times over in the 20e period And
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  I don't think for a second that they're going to stay with me again one minute you're right at the
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  top next minute you're right down there it can H business is a risk it just is anything can change
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  and also with your health things like that so you can never allow that that sort of arrogance and
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  complacency I don't think that's there's a place for that in business you've got to be prepared for
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  the roller coaster but it's that's I love about business so there was a few uh things I had to
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  sort out on the way up here where emergencies where you know clients have found a property
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  and they desperately need something sorting right there and then so then I'm calling around
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  the agents and things and I think it's that that keeps me going you think you do you think you're
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  addicted to stress I think I handle stress really well I don't try and see it as stress I try and
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  see it as a challenge and it's how to overcome those challenges um and yes I I've worked with
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  therapists I've worked with psychologists I would definitely recommend everybody needs therapy even
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  if you don't think you need therapy so you worked with a therapist to help you manage stress so
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  they've taught you techniques to help you yeah and it's all about controlling the way your thought
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  process and actually also controlling that you can't control other people's thought processes
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  oh that's a huge that was huge for me huge that was hu and actually CU it's so tempting yeah and
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  actually it was working with a therapist that made me realize that cuz my expectation levels
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  on myself are so high you know incredibly high that I'm never going to meet them that that's
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  my issue that's it um and so it expectations on myself were super high so expectations on my team
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  were super high yes and actually working with a therapist made me see that good is good enough and
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  and they work for me for a reason you know in the sense that they're amazing but I have to lower my
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  expectations in the sense of of them you mean of them and and of myself sometimes because otherwise
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  if your expectations are so high you'll never you're always going to feel defeated I think if
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  I can deliver anything to any entrepreneur mail or femil it is you have to work on yourself so
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  I've always been you know personal development's always been higher on my agenda and really looking
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  at what is it that I can improve on personally you know and so I I've always gone into therapy
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  sessions and God oh my goodness I've done this or or I think this about this person or you know can
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  you please work with me on to you know I mean the therapists have said they've never met anyone so
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  honest or self-aware and I think you I think most people's issues that I've come across is the fact
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  that they're not self-aware and that actually you will find it difficult to change unless
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  you address the issues that you have so therapy interesting totally interesting and something
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  that I'm definitely going to look into into you're on The Apprentice you got on brilliant interview
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  process for all those months you get in you're buzzing excited competitive but then you get
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  fired in week one how did you take that not very well I was just completely shocked and also when
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  I was going into the boardroom I think a couple of people you know a couple of people in the
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  production team had gone Michelle you got this you ain't going anywhere yeah so of course I'd gone
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  really cocky if I'm being honest so really cocky didn't say too much because I genuinely thought
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  that he had a plan he knew what the plan was and I wasn't going anywhere he you mean Lord
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  sugar yeah and um and actually that was um the biggest mistake that I made was again learning
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  from that in business is don't ever be complacent don't ever take things for granted so I'd sort of
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  gone in and not really done too much the boardroom so when he fired me he just felt absolutely yeah I
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  was in absolute shock so it was the ne I think it was the next morning I get my phone back and so I
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  ring my H my husband was obviously the first call that I made yes and he was like oh thank God for
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  that um cuz like literally being at home dealing needed yeah he needed me and so you know obviously
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  a week was enough for him so he was like well done like really proud of you but so glad you're coming
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  home yeah and then I rang my little sister and and she works for me in my businesses and she is
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  like literally my biggest supporter and I rang her and she was just like screaming she was like oh my
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  God you know Lord sugar stopped the show because he knows he's seen you and he he's made you the
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  winner already after one week and I was just like I was like Lindsay honestly he hasn't I've been
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  kicked out but she's so believed in me so sweet and I love telling that story cuz I'm just like
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  as if he's stop filming so it sounds like you had the right support network around you and then you
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  sort of licked your whs didn't you and then got up again yeah do you know what because obviously
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  you you know you're not allowed to tell anyone and the close people that you are allowed to tell so
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  I told a couple of people in my team were allowed to know I think my accountant was allowed to know
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  and my immediate family because obviously you got to make up a story as to where why you're going
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  to go away for three months and no one's going to see you so um obviously I'd called the members of
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  my team and um you know they they were shocked but obviously really Chu that I'd done it and
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  then I couldn't see anyone for a couple of days so like literally I went home spent a couple of days
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  at home just trying to like process process and then I booked a holiday to Disney World
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  straight away what a good idea yeah so that's it yeah that was it I was like distraction yeah
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  absolutely well that's a tactic I mean instead of sitting there sort of letting things get into
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  your head too much and sort of you know off you go to Disney World yeah and actually the um The
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  Producers were there you know helping me pack my stuff um when I left the show and they said
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  something um that has always stayed with me they said Michelle you never appreciate what you've
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  achieved so far in life um and it was after that that I got a therapist for the first time even if
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  I'd have won I think it would have been the same you know I've done it I've achieved it let's move
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  on so for ages for probably a couple of years I couldn't even talk about it yeah same actually
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  quite hard yeah yeah and now it's like you know no that's a big part of my journey I'm super
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  proud of that journey and it wasn't that I wasn't ever proud of it it was just that through therapy
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  I've learned that actually living in the moment and actually I always wanted to be present and I
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  wanted to you know people would go oh but you're so successful and and I I never felt successful
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  you know I never felt like I'd achieved anything so that's why I was always like I'm done with that
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  let's move on I've got to always go bigger and better I I I don't know not everyone goes in with
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  that mindset though to be fair that I'm going to win some going in and have the obviously I want to
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  go in and be famous I'm going and I'll go see how it goes not everyone is I'm I'm going to win but
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  obviously the more competitive you are the more you want to win yeah for me it was not an option
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  not to win um and I think that's why I was so devastated when I but week one I think the thought
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  process was as you know like it wasn't my choice to be project manager you know um my family the
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  only thing my family said to me when I went in was do not be project manager week one so I got voted
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  to be project manager yeah you you did and um you know I didn't ask for it and actually spent hours
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  deliberating I was like no no no no I think it was a tactic um because no one really wanted to be
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  project manager was very brave of you yeah suppose that's a good well you know what I thought so in
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  the end I gave in because I was like you know what if I am going to go out of this process I'm
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  going to go out leading from the front cuz I am a leader I'm a natural leader and I thought where
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  I would have regretted the the process is if I'd got kicked out and just been hiding around in the
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  background like I'm not a background person oh no no no you're definitely not you know for me it was
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  like just sort of hanging around yeah yeah hanging around not doing anything and and hiding in in the
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  background until like week you know the end of the process terrible yeah terrible you know that's not
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  my style so I was like you know what I'm if I'm if I'm going to go and I'm going to be fired I'm
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  going to be project manager cuz that's the way to go out yeah so now that you've had your therapy
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  what has The Apprentice taught you about yourself it taught me to slow down so I was on the verge
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  the reason I got a therapist was I was on the verge of setting up another business which would
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  have been my eighth company um and I actually at this point I'd had my daughter Isabella and
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  I thought when the children are older because you think oh you're doing it for them all the
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  time it's just an excuse for me it was about not facing up to actually being a m is really hard um
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  you know and running businesses for me was giving me self you know gratification and also it meant
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  that I didn't have to face up to actually being a parent is really hard and I've not really you know
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  no one teaches you how to be a parent you know there's no parents school and I remember sitting
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  there one day and just sort of going you know I don't want the kids to be 18 and gone all hasn't
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  mom got a successful business but actually I've spent no time with her so hard yeah so that that
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  was the point but being a m wasn't natural for me because all I'd ever known was this business
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  treadmill of you know running businesses and um just more more more more more not necessarily more
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  money that was the thing it wasn't really about the money for me it was about the success and
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  how you know I'd never felt good enough genuinely now I am a lot more present than I ever have been
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  I pick my children up from school and it's just about you know being able to put them
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  first So that obviously when they are older yeah you know you know my my parents they were um had
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  very successful careers not entrepreneurial at all but in the Civil Service and I think really just
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  the trauma came from um when I was 17 they you know they sadly went through a divorce they got
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  on absolutely fine now but there was a divorce and then um you know the trauma started with we nearly
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  lost our house so it it got it was on the Brinker repossession okay and the car did get repossessed
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  and that was the car that I was driving yeah horrible and that's the trauma is that we'd lost
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  absolutely everything and I didn't have a choice to do I had to drop out of a levels I had to get
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  you know I worked three jobs um put a roof over mine and my little sister's head and and that's
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  why we're so close and she works with me in my businesses um and that's where the drive came from
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  and that's what I had to unpick because my fear was always like that's never going to happen to
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  me so you know obviously watching your parents go through that where you know they nearly lost their
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  house and I think that's why I went into property and finance is because your home is your Castle
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  it's what makes me feel safe so from you know that age I was like I wanted this big house relate yeah
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  you know I wanted a big house where I would feel safe you know it's your nest yeah it's your nest
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  and and I think that that's where I think that's where my skill set comes in my job because I've
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  had that trauma so what's going through your head at that point your divorc this is never happening
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  to me um so I waited till a lot later in life to have children till I was financially secure um
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  also you know that's the reason for me setting up my businesses in property and F fin ances to make
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  sure that I was Secure make sure that every single one of my clients never went through that process
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  of you know not having anything and you've got a personal reason yeah and and Trauma in a way that
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  you've taken to become something positive that's driving you I think also ethically morally your
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  values are in the right place yeah so I thought by setting up all these businesses you know then
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  I would never go through the financial crisis that my parents went through um
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  and so sadly I had to hire help in therapy to stop me from setting up businesses because that's all
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  I'd ever know it became a thing yeah it became an addiction it became an addiction it became
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  an addiction because like when you when you've experienced that you never want to go through
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  that again so my thing was the only thing I knew and and I am really good at making money you know
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  so my thing was make money make money make money it will problems it will solve problems and make
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  me feel safe you know and now getting off that treadmill you know and actually I thought if I
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  get off this treadmill then I'm not going to be successful anymore no one will think I'm
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  successful of I don't set up another business you know and actually then learning that that actually
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  I think since doing that and getting off that treadmill and not setting up any more businesses
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  I'm focusing on the businesses that I've got I think I've become more successful so let's what
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  businesses do you have let's list them so yeah so I've got a um estate agency right a letting agency
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  um a commercial mortgage brokerage a Residential Mortgage brokerage an insurance brokerage and
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  then I've got a um portfolio so property portfolio Building Company where you know I would build buy
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  you 10 houses and completely manage them for you that's insane that's just crazy so what qualities
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  what essential qualities do you need to possess to be able to run a business successfully do you
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  think I think number one is the passion for it so you can see you know with my businesses it's the
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  passion to get you to own your own home cuz that's what made me feel safe and I know it'll make you
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  feel safe um but so so having the passion for it there's absolutely no point in running a business
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  drives you the energy unless you are passionate about it because there's going to be so many down
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  times so as long as you've got that you know the passion for what you're doing whether it's you
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  know hairdressing or makeup artist or photography if you love it and you're willing to put your all
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  into it then you're going to be success uccessful have you ever experienced a situation um over the
• 25:03
  years running your your own businesses where being a woman has actually proven to be a hindrance in
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  any way have you found that do you know what I've been super lucky I was um I had like one
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  job before I set up my own businesses and that was in a completely male dominated industry what was
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  it what it was a roofing company and I'm still they're still my family to this day so actually
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  they held me in such high regard that my journey into entrepreneurialism was actually really good
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  because I was a well-respected very young female um I was almost like the most respected in that
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  business at such a young age that gave me a bit of a false um economy when it came to business so
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  when I moved into running my own business apart from people would walk into my office especially
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  older men yeah and not take me seriously initially ini how did you know they weren't taking you
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  seriously just the questions that they'd ask and they'd almost what like just silly things just
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  testing your knowledge so I've had yeah I've had a lot of men over the years that have basically
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  gone you need to prove that you know what you're talking about but the minute then you know what
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  you're talking about and knowledge is power then that all seem to drop but I've been quite lucky I
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  think it's because you know I don't yeah I haven't really put up with it so the minute I clock that
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  you don't think I know what I'm talking about or you might be thinking I've got daughters or
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  granddaughters your age I literally turn it on so much that they would then in two minutes know so
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  it's not really lucky it's not really lucky and I love the way that you you again you're coming
• 26:49
  at this from a position of control in a positive way you are controlling the narrative and you see
• 26:54
  someone and they not really taking you seriously and you take you understand that you're aware of
• 26:59
  it and then you turn it around you're controlling that conversation and also you can't play the
• 27:03
  victim no I don't ever play the victim you know that is that's on them so their thought process
• 27:10
  being oh come on what does Michelle know it I've always loved sales anyway yeah and I've always
• 27:16
  love proving you wrong yes so the minute I clock that you think that you know I'm not you know as
• 27:24
  you think I'm not good or whatever or I don't know what I'm talking about oh literally I take
• 27:29
  pleasure out of making you realize that I do know what I'm talking about and that I'm a formidable
• 27:35
  business person I had and don't ever underestimate me you know and um that's it I had a similar
• 27:41
  situation in the IT industry yeah where I started off in telecommunications and billing and Analysis
• 27:47
  and all these things and I walked into the office and it was literally 99% male consultants and um I
• 27:52
  walk in there and uh and it's like well you don't look like an IT person you don't talk like an IT
• 27:58
  person what do you know about it and that's when also the serious mode comes in right I'll show
• 28:03
  you yeah I'll show you and then and then they they quickly learn don't they who they dealing
• 28:08
  with I don't really get upset about it if it's a male or woman because I think anyone's going to
• 28:13
  have their backup if you asking them you know if you trying to convince them to buy a car
• 28:16
  or whatever oh I don't why would I want that car it's the same thing I maybe I think women do get
• 28:22
  it a little bit hard especially in male dominated Industries like you know talk about Roofing con
• 28:29
  it that's fair um you have to work a little bit harder maybe yeah I think less now because
• 28:36
  obviously we're a bit more out there um and people T are taking us a bit more seriously
• 28:41
  but I've always loved it I've always loved I've always taking advantage of being the only female
• 28:45
  in the room you know I got a lot of business by doing that sort of many years ago or you know
• 28:51
  people then will notice you because you're not in a gray suit um so you know now I think that
• 28:58
  yeah I think it's slightly easier for women now but I've never seen it as a disadvantage
• 29:03
  I've always seen it as a challenge what about the gender gap persistent gender wage Gap that we've
• 29:09
  got going on yeah I mean running my own business I've never really experien that in a professional
• 29:16
  capacity because I've you know I've had pretty much one job and to be fair he overpaid me I
• 29:21
  wasn't he was paying me way more money than I was actually worth at the time so personally I've not
• 29:28
  experienced it but obviously from what I've seen and heard in the Press um I don't agree
• 29:33
  with it you know it's that women you know we shouldn't be seen as women and men we should
• 29:38
  be seen as you know can you do the job can you deliver irrelevant of who you are and I think
• 29:45
  women you know I've seen this in Consulting in the corporate world of Consulting you know there's a
• 29:50
  floor full of consultants and the men are earning basically double what the women are earning same
• 29:55
  job same everything and I think looking into it a bit more I'm quite analytical about these things
• 30:01
  and I'm I've noticed that women aren't asking for as much money as men men are more confident even
• 30:08
  though some of them might have even less skills let's say or even the same even the same um women
• 30:14
  aren't asking for as much as men because they feel oh I'm not quite ready they're perfectionists
• 30:19
  they're kind of thinking you know I need to get into the job then I'll ask for more whereas men
• 30:23
  are more a little bit more gutsy in that way and I think women need to stop that yeah and
• 30:28
  high and you'll be surprised you get it but also companies shouldn't be even waiting for them to
• 30:34
  ask in my opinion you know I think people talk I in a corporate world you know you you might be
• 30:41
  a female you might be sitting next to a male like companies need to take responsibility here and go
• 30:46
  irrelevant of gender that is the pay they do ask they do ask and there's also a negotiation that
• 30:52
  goes on because then they might present a salary and then you can go well I you know I'm definitely
• 30:56
  worth more than that because of and this and men are more likely to negotiate I think or they have
• 31:01
  been traditionally and I think women just need to take that position of power and go well actually I
• 31:07
  am worth that and I want to I'm going to negotiate this because I feel like I deserve that but I do
• 31:13
  think it is um employers responsibilities as well like I know my husband has a very large business
• 31:18
  and I know that he you know the role is the role and it is Benchmark paid and irrelevant of whether
• 31:25
  you're male or female it's what you're bringing to the table and he's really good at you know he
• 31:28
  doesn't have any gender pay issues in his business and that's where I think you know companies do
• 31:33
  need to look at their own policies and and paid have a look have a look and just make sure that
• 31:39
  everyone everyone on the same level whether irrelevant of of gender is paid you know the
• 31:44
  same but yeah that's women not um you know like you said not asking and and possibly believing
• 31:51
  that they're worth it which again is another thing where we have to instill more confidence and this
• 31:56
  is this is the the that I'm on at the moment is you know I've never necessarily suffered with you
• 32:02
  know a lack of confidence if anything I'm probably slightly overconfident sometimes but it's about
• 32:08
  that can be taught I have taught so many women in my business to be at the Forefront to you know be
• 32:15
  open and I think people misunderstand confidence for arrogance and there's a very fine line but
• 32:21
  actually it can be taught um you know so that you do speak up this stuff works yeah this actually
• 32:28
  works people like the confidence I think and actually if you fight you shouldn't have to fight
• 32:33
  for what you're worth but at the same time you know people do like the directness and actually if
• 32:38
  you're saying that you're worth it then you must be worth it you know but I think that I think a
• 32:43
  lot of women struggle with that that's the journey I've been on with the females that I've employed
• 32:49
  the amount of training and development that I spend on the confidence issues has been insane
• 32:58
  years confidence issues for sure and this leads me into my next question which is the ongoing
• 33:02
  debate about under representation of women in leadership positions that is something we're
• 33:07
  still seeing today it is still a fact why why is this even happening again I think women just are
• 33:13
  not putting themselves forward also it's the whole work life balance isn't it you know organizations
• 33:19
  need to look at because because even myself and my my team you know a lot of my team are Ms um
• 33:25
  it's about the what support is uh employ employers giving you know parents and still I'm not saying
• 33:33
  that this is all the time but still it's a lot of mothers that want to spend a lot more time with
• 33:39
  their children and I'm trying not to be sexist there but I certainly know out of myself and my
• 33:44
  husband he loves spending time with our children but it's definitely me that wants to spend more
• 33:50
  of the working day with my children you know so I can't vouch for everybody but that's in our family
• 33:55
  that's definitely um the way goes and I think employers being flexible around that you know
• 34:02
  and making sure that leadership positions offer some sort of flexibility I think you know going
• 34:08
  back to The Apprentice I think my issue with the culture around that even though that's a
• 34:12
  TV production I get it it's TV I don't really want to necessarily fuel or or or be part of
• 34:23
  fulltime anything that takes that balance away anything that skews too much to the other side
• 34:31
  where it's deliberate stress and it's deliberate no you can't see your family as if that's a good
• 34:36
  thing even in the name of entertainment I mean what is the problem with picking up the phone
• 34:41
  and talking to your kid for four minutes what is the problem I just don't feel that that's maybe I
• 34:47
  understand that it's there to stress but anything that tips the balance like it becomes unnatural
• 34:52
  and too unnecessarily high stress for me it's not something and I certainly wouldn't want to work
• 34:59
  with anyone long term that has that mindset yeah and I think it wouldn't work at the point in time
• 35:05
  where I was on the show yeah I was not in that present mindset with the children now I wouldn't
• 35:11
  do the show there is something in that that there are these stereotypes and there's almost
• 35:16
  two groups of women and either you're you know strong and tough and then you you know you labeled
• 35:22
  unfair labeling or then you're maybe softer and a bit more meek and some ways dare I say you're
• 35:30
  sexy or something God forbid then you're not taken seriously at all yeah um what do you think about
• 35:37
  this I think the impression that people get of me is very they're super intimidated which I've
• 35:45
  always found because I don't get labeled with the sexy yeah okay so so um so what labeling have you
• 35:51
  have you received labeling I think I I think the whole intimidation so people think I'm up myself
• 35:57
  because I think that's the label that someone who is portrayed to be successful is and it's
• 36:03
  when you meet me that you actually go oh she's so normal you know and and actually so I think
• 36:09
  the perception is very different to the the real me because I think again people you know if it
• 36:16
  was a successful man you wouldn't think oh he's up himself you just think oh how successful he is how
• 36:22
  wonderful but I think because a woman is driven you know you automatically this is the stigma that
• 36:28
  I get attached with is that unless you know me you think that I'm up myself and I'm better than you
• 36:35
  and you know which couldn't be further from the truth and I think that's sad I do think that's
• 36:39
  sad whereas actually when I meet or see or admire a successful woman I I don't think those things I
• 36:48
  think you know I'm in awe of you you like you know Oprah Winfrey I mean Oprah Winfrey doesn't come
• 36:54
  across intimidating so you know she's probably the most successful businesswoman on the planet and
• 36:59
  and I idolize her you know she's one of my Idols yes but she manages to do it in such a way where
• 37:05
  it's humble and it's soft and it's she disarms yeah yeah she disarms and um you know so I'm
• 37:11
  trying to work on that because a lot of the you know people who don't know me necessarily think
• 37:16
  that you know I can be quite intimidating and I think that that's their perception of me rather
• 37:22
  than actually when they do get to know me they go oh actually you're really quite funny and you're
• 37:25
  friendly and you're you it's quite an interesting one because um it I suppose it depends on your
• 37:31
  situation as well so maybe if there's you know some insecurities or you know then you feel a
• 37:38
  bit like oh I don't you know yeah but if you're doing things yourself and also I think what women
• 37:43
  need to realize what you can be inspired and you can be driven by another woman's success too you
• 37:50
  know absolutely why don't you rub off on each other absolutely but I think go I think women
• 37:54
  who are confident in I think you're absolutely right it comes from insecurity these so obviously
• 37:59
  I meet I try and network with business women all the time and I'm a princess trust Ambassador so
• 38:04
  I'm pretty much one of the only non-celebrities in the prince's trust ambassadorship and uh they
• 38:10
  certainly don't think I'm intimidating because they're so successful you know and they don't
• 38:15
  have I'm sure they got their own insecurities because haven't we all but um you know I think
• 38:20
  it is I think it does come down to you know women who are really securing themselves they actually
• 38:25
  you know they go what can I learn from also I'm doing the same thing you know you always want to
• 38:29
  be in a room where you're yeah you lift it up and you pull together and I love meeting I mean I have
• 38:37
  a the EMP parag entrepreneur where I do networking um for business women and that is purely to get
• 38:42
  in a room with like-minded women like myself so you can all sort of you know um help each other
• 38:49
  lift each other up support each other and I think these kind of podcasts and getting out there and
• 38:54
  talking to women and normalizing a Confident Woman you know and seeing that as a very very
• 39:01
  good thing is something that should be continuing yeah absolutely and this is why I'm on a bit of a
• 39:07
  mission and a you know doing loads of PR immediate at the moment one because you know I've got
• 39:11
  nothing to prove two I think by sharing my story particular around you know working with therapists
• 39:17
  and psychologists that there should be no Stigma attached to it and actually it's only going to
• 39:21
  benefit yourself and for any women out there that you know are working moms you know um whether
• 39:27
  they're an employee or running their own business that actually you can do it you can you know still
• 39:33
  be present if you work if you work on it you definitely can and have that work life balance
• 39:38
  but still be super successful at the same time so you can be a mom and still run businesses and not
• 39:44
  one of those always sort of above the other at some point in time I'm not saying I'm perfect
• 39:50
  with it by any stretch but I'm getting there and I'm really learning to you know not beat myself up
• 39:56
  about you know not being present sometimes or work taking a backseat sometimes do you have a quote or
• 40:03
  anything that you look to that inspires you in any way that you can share um I think it's more about
• 40:10
  you know money doesn't bring you success changing people's lives bring you success and it's Michelle
• 40:14
  Obama said something along those lines don't totally quote me but she very much and I look
• 40:19
  up to her I think she's an inspirational woman um and I think you know if you I think if you focus
• 40:25
  on the money I I think that could be a little bit of a downfall I think if you focus on the
• 40:31
  what change are you going to bring to someone's life I think the money will just come that that's
• 40:36
  my that's the path I've always followed and and that is the path that I've been successful at
• 40:42
  Michelle it's been amazing speaking to you than so much for coming today thanks so thank you
• 40:55
  [Music]