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Ex Mets GM Steve Phillips joins the show! · Day Drinking With Dog

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Viva Tequila Seltzer, the number one hard Seltzer in the world, and the
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official hard Seltzer of Day. Drinking a Dog ditch them all, add tequilas
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Welcome back today, Drinking a Dog. I have a very special guest today,
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Steve Phillips from his home studio right in Connecticut. It is yeah,
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home studio in Connecticut. I'm glad to be on talking to some baseball.
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Thanks, my friend. I appreciate you. I know you guys are crazy
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right now. The playoffs starting tomorrow. We'll get to that in a minute.
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But it's got to be kind of nutty for you this time of year.
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Huh. It is. Yeah, it's a busy time. That mean
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it's fun though, I mean, listen, this is you know, it's
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you play one hundred and sixty two games to get to this point, to
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get to the playoffs, and you know, to really get there. I
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understand what it takes to put a team together and what it takes for things
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to go right in a way to get you to the postseason in October baseball,
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and so you know, there's some good fortunes, some good lucks,
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and good health all factoring in h and now it's gonna be some eight baseball.
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The bill, the covers, they're over the muscle October. Yes,
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Unfortunately, this area has zero teams, and unless you're a Philly fan,
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I guess that's the closest one we can get, right, I mean,
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the New York teams collapsed this year in Boston. I think Boston sort of
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played the way I thought they would. It seems like, you know,
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the only ones who didn't really know that they weren't going to be a playoff
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team was bought was the Red Sox themselves or the front officer really ownership,
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because I didn't see them as a real competitor anyways. But you know,
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they made the general manager or the baseball president of operations pay the price for
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the struggles this year. Yeah, sure, dude, let's stick with the
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Red Sox for a second. And uh, the sad news of Tim Wakefield
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passing yesterday. He was you know, I'm a I'm a Red Sox fan,
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so just so you know, And uh, he was one of my
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favorites, one of my probably my top five ten favorite players persons. He
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was always willing to sign the autographs and talk to the fans. And did
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you ever run across across paths with him over the years. Oh yeah,
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for sure, Yeah, for sure, even when he was with the Pirates
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before going over to the Red Sox. And you know when he first came
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up, he had the great rookie season. Yeah yeah, and then uh,
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you know, his second year was bad. They end up releasing him
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with the Red Sox signed it right away. H and then two hundred wins
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later, you know, we're talking about an extraordinary career. But you know,
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for to Wakefield, I mean, it's not only what he did on
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the field, which was you know, the knuckleball that you know, he
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learned from his dad when they were playing catch his kids. You know,
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he's a kid growing up. His dad taught him. And he was drafted
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as a first baseman slugger and they and then after a couple of years,
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they said, well, if you want to keep playing, you're gonna have
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to convert the pitching. He's like, well, I want to keep playing,
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so let me try it. And he did and he turned it into
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what a twenty some year career. Pitched until he was forty five years old,
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two hundred wins and one hundred eighty losses. And and you know,
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just an extraordinary career, but he was an even better persone, uh you
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know. I mean he was an eight time nominee for the revert of Plentia
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War. He won the award in twenty ten. He was a big participant
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in supporter of the Jimmy Fund up in Boston to raise money for cancer,
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and you know, it was just just a solid citizen. Teammates raved about
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what a teammate he was and what a friend he was, and this is
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just a devastating loss. It took me seven years old. Certainly, thoughts
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and prayers, his thoughts and prayers going out to his wife and kid right
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and unfortunately she's battling cancer as well, So it's prayers to the family and
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everyone there involved. Tim was he as a fan. You know, I
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never really played at any you know level, but as a fan, you
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know, you get you get attached to players. And the funny thing about
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Wakefield, and I think it's just because strictly because of the knuckleball. I
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never like had highs and lows with him as a fan. I was,
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I was like, you know, what if he gets crushed, you,
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what are you gonna do? I mean, he's not like he's pitching bad,
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like you don't know where the pitch is gonna go. So whenever he
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took them out, and I'm like, I think he's either gonna shut him
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down or he's gonna get blown out. And so I never really got mad
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at like, you know, if the Clemens, let's say, like had
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a bad outing, Like, what the heck, we're paying me all this
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money. You got what you got with Tim, And it kept him around
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for a long time. Yeah, I think that that. You know,
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he always seemed to keep in the game. He never would completely shut teams
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down, but he also would rarely have clunkers. Uh, and you know,
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the the knuckleball taught to it just you know that you might have some
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ups and downs. He was never going to get hurt. From a GM
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perspective, the idea of a guy stand healthy taking the ball ever, not
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only every fifth day, but you could use him to relieve, you can
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use him at any time. He's seven minimum. And and here's the thing.
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You know, it's not common for knuckleballers to pick out of the bullpen
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because you know, sometimes they don't throw enough strikes, and yet he did
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that. Obviously, the big home running give up. Aaron Boone in two
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thousand and three was one he regrets and after that he said, no,
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I'm now, you know, the next Bill Bucker. But then the next
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year in two thousand and four, came back with huge extra inning pitching.
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I was just going to in the Old Series and yeah, and so you
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know, and then part of the World Series in two thousand and seven as
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well. Just the top notch guy one. He made the All Star team
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one year. Uh. Just a well light and respected gentleman in the game.
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Yeah, I caught him. I think they were playing Oakland. He
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had a no hitter into the eighth where I was that Fenway. I was
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like, he never got it. But uh, you know, it's it's
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it's heartbreaking to see. I just have summer memories of him, you know.
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Yeah. Yeah, it's a tough loss for sure. So we'll start
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out with a little bit of uh, your history obviously, Uh, you
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played high school and college ball and were drafted and buy the Mets. Correct.
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Yeah, I signed out of high school. Oh yeah, okay,
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you know I had, yeah, I had, I had signed a football
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scholarship to go to Northwestern and and then uh, and then got drafted.
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My senior year out of high school by the Mets in the fifth round.
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Uh. And by the way, my claim to fame is that in that
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draft, the that's drafted in the twelve pound a young pitcher named Roger Clemens
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of sans So out of San Jacinto Junior College in Texas. And at the
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time they had offered Clemens twenty five thousand dollars and he wanted thirty five thousand,
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and so Joe McIlvaine, the scouting director for the Mats, flew down
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three different times to watch clements pits in the summer to decide whether to give
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him the extra ten thousand. He got reined out every single time, and
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they didn't give him the extra ten thousand. In the meantime, I had
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been drafted, and you know, I had a scholarship to the Northwestern,
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which he tells you how long ago it was back in the a four year
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scholarship to the Northwestern was worth about, you know, forty eight thousand dollars
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twelve thousand a year. It's changed a little little bit, and so you
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know, I wanted to get about that amount of money just so that if
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you know that I was going to have money to pay for education because this
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was before that they could factor in, you know, a full blow of
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the college scholarship can you can only give eight thousand dollars for scholarship plan back
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then. And so they had gotten the twenty five thousand with me, and
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then an additional seventy five hundred with an incentive bonus plan and another eight thousand
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for h for college and I, you know, I wanted more money and
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at least another ten grand and so yeah, the money that should have gone
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to Clemens went to me. And that's another reason that Mets fans can hold
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something against me, so that it's kind of went full circle. So you
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started working with the Mets organization and then your rose all the way to the
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top to be the general manager, played seven years in ninety leagues with the
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Mets, and uh, you know, played with all of the you know,
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with Darryl Strawberry and Dwight Gooden and Lanny Dykstra and bikes are also part
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of that nineteen eighty one draft that I was in. Billy Bean, who
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went on to be obviously the general manager the you know, the moneyball executive,
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and John Gibbons, who later became a manager for the Toronto Blue Jays
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all were part of that era there, and and so yeah, it was
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a fun time to be a Met. They had a lot of you know,
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they weren't good for a while, so there's opportunities. But then they
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started. They drafted well, Joe Mcamane an excellent scout. They Frank Cashing
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came in the front office, made some brilliant moves with Keith hernandez and and
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Gary Carter, and the next thing you know, you know, they're going
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on to win the World Series. And for me, I played seven years,
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went on semester a year to get my degree. So it took me
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eight years to get my degree, one semester at a time. But but
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I did it while I was playing ball, and and then was working with
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the company at Saint Louis when just out of the blue, of the Mets
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called massifight of interest in and being considered for an administrative assistant for minor leagues
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and scouting position in the front office. And so I interviewed, I got
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the job, and then you know, worked my way up to the general
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manager seven years later. Yeah, so I was looking at your record as
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gentleman, now I remember you back I mean probviously be a Red Sox fan,
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but I followed Baseball lot and I feel like you were one of the
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first I could be completely wrong, but one of the first gms that kind
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of was really in Like maybe it was just the TV was evolving a little
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bit back then, but I always seem to see you on TV a lot
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more than like, you know, I grew up with Luke Gorman, you
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know, with the Red Fox, and you know, he was maybe on
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every Sunday for a half hour talking about the you know, it's just so
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much more access now, uh, to the you know, everyone in the
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organization, and not because you're on my show, But I always liked you.
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I'm like, you know what, and you got quite a record you
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got you know, you drafted David Wright, Scott Kashmir, you know,
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you signed Jose Reyes, uh, you know, and you brought in you
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had a pretty powerful team in two thousand. Yeah, it was the World
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Series, but right, right and so right we lost the World Series in
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two thousands. Of the Yankees went to the playoffs in ninety nine and two
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thousand. At that time, it was the first time in Mets franchise history
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they've been to the playoffs and back to back years. They've never even done
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it before ninety nine and two thousand. Even the eighty six team didn't make
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the playoffs in that back years. So you know, we had a good
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run of guys there, from John Olaru to Todd Ziela, Robin Ventura.
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Uh and obviously the pitcher's now without Lighter and my Campeden and Rick Reid and
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and so yeah, we had a really competitive team. Uh. And we
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always trailed the brags. We know, we could never catch the brave always
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something then Huh. Well, in fact, I told Bobby Cox and John
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Schuholz Cox, the managers and holes and gentlemanager, if I ever had to
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pick him out of a police lineup, I'd have to have him turn around
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because I only know what they look like from behind because we never were in
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front of them in my time there. But uh, but yeah, I
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was a good run in New York and and you know it gave me the
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background of the opportunity to make a career in the media afterwards. Yeah.
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No, one of your signings too, that just threw a dagger straight through
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my heart was move on. He was probably at the time when my age
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was one of my favorite players. And I'll never forget outside of Jackson hitting
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like the camera in center field, the Fenway, that move on home run
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that went like you had that big baggy tarp out there, like what think
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it was a Budweiser sign whatever that he hit. Oh yeah, you went
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like three quarters of the way up that thing. Yeah, the monster shot
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and so yeah. So Moe was actually, you know, he had signed
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with the Angels in free agency and then he had played there for a year.
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He had gotten hurt and he tore his biceps right, and we were
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considering doing something, so we went up to the Boston area. He used
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to work out with some batty cages up there. Bobby Valentine and I had
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some of my staff went up and watched Mo work out, and you know,
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decided to take a risk and trade for him. But unfortunately, his
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knees were giving out and he was bone on bone and his knees and and
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ended up having a step away from the game, and you know, insurance
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had to sort of cover his pay for the rest of it. But he
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did have an extraordinary career before injuries, you know, start started hampering him
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for the long term. I saw him play in the Cape League before you
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know, we even knew who the heck he was. Sure, yeah,
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yeah, yeah. And I used to work out in the Cape in the
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summertime, so we'd go to all the games and there's just this monster playing
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first base, and this guy's big. But so you had a good run
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six years or seven years, I guess it would be, uh, the
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Bobby beneath that. Now, you guys before you well, you were probably
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in the organization. You guys signed him in what ninety one. Yeah,
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So I was an administrative assistant and the first time they signed him and it
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didn't go well. Uh. And I was down the administrative assistant for minor
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league's scouting and it didn't go well. You know, he didn't handle New
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York Energy the way you thought somebody from New York might. Uh. And
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so you know, they ended up at some point moving on from him.
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Uh. And and then you know, when when I was there as the
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GM, we had it up trading for him from Mel Rojas. We were
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trading Mel Rojas. We thought, you know what, Rojas had struggled in
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New York, he had gotten boot in New York, so we figured we'll
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take somebody else's issue for our issue and hope we can get things going again.
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We needed an offensive player they could place some third base or first base
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and switch hit. So he fit in for us nicely, but it didn't
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go well there and so we ended up making the decision to release him.
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And that was when ownership in to me and he saidmission. You know,
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when Bonnie was here the first time, Uh, you know, he was
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into deferred money. I wanted to reach out to the agent and see if
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he can defer the six million dollars. I think we owe him like five
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point nine million or something like that. And uh, and and see if
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we can't kick the money out ten years and then pan out over twenty five
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years because the Mets had an investment vehicle with Bernie Madoff and and so you
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know, when we talked to the agent, the agent was like, sure,
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we'll do that again. They had done it before. In fact,
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they're still getting payments from the first time he was at when they deferred money
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as well. And so yeah, yeah, he was still getting money I
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think through twenty twenty five on that deal. But you know, so the
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ideal that like you know, people get worked up think, oh you gave
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him the deal like it was the it was the Bernie Madoff investment vehicle.
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And in the way the Mets looked at the accounting department, crunched numbers,
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and their belief was they had a chance to make a ton of money on
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his money, even while still paying him out eight percent deferred, ten years
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paid out over twenty five years. They still had the beliefs that they were
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going to make millions of dollars on his six million dollars if because they were
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kicking it out for so long again with the hope that Madeoff would continue to
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be such a tremendous investment vehicle. And it's also the reason why I know
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that Meths ownership had no idea what Prettie made offers duy, because you know,
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because they said to me, have the accounting department crunch numbers that if
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if the Madeoff fund makes this kind of money or that kind of money or
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that kind of money, it's our payout and what's our benefit over time and
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you know what kind of returns Like they just like, we need to crunch
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numbers. Nine we don't know what we were getting, uh and so but
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yeah, it was I mean that is that's a that's an ugly story for
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sure for the Mats and and and one I don't mind telling because I don't
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feel any shame about it. Honestly, it's such a cool story. I'm
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kind of glad to be part of it. But uh, but you know,
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it was all about Bernie Madoff, and you know that they were investing
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money with Madoff at the time, right, and that did that eventually force
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them to sell? No, they weathered that storm. They weathered that storm.
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Yeah, they weathered it, uh and got through it. Okay,
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I mean they lost a ton of money, and then you know they had
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to pay back money too, so that many of them, the participants in
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the fund, could at least try to get principle back in return. And
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so, yeah, they were in a tough spot with what they had to
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do there, and it was devastating because of the relationship you know that the
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Wilpons had with the Madeoffs. They were all friends and vacation together and had
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no idea what was going on. So so you know, you could think
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about it if it's somebody that you really care about and they're very good friends
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with you, and you get yamboozled like that you can understand why it would
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be very painful. But no, I think they whether Dad okay, got
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through it, but I think they ended up selling. You know, at
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a point where you know, when you think about you know, succession plans
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and those sorts of things, you know, the estate taxes that happen when
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there's there's anything, and so I think when Fred was getting a little bit
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older, they just decided to go ahead and sell. Yeah. Now obviously
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Coin buys it. And actually, before we get to that, that Bonia
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deal is actually quite common in the league now, I know, like Dever's
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new deal has something attached to that he gets paid to like twenty thirty something,
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uh, thirty eight or forty. So it wasn't like everyone thinks he's
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the only guy that ever got a deal like this. Oh no, No.
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The third cop thing was is fairly and now you know the interest rates
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and such was you know, back done when the interest rates were a little
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bit better. Uh. And you know, even with Movan, we deferred
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some money with Movan when we made the trade for him again with the idea
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of they would invest it in the Madoff fun and make money on his money.
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While it was pushed out some period of time, and so you know,
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it's it's creative accounting in many ways. They didn't really know how creative
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the accounting was though, with what Madeoff was doing. Right now. I
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was listening to you talk with Russo back in March, Matt Dark, and
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you made a funny comment. You were basically like, you know, if
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you were working for the Mets now, because I think they were just they
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had just signed Korea obviously that deal fell through. Uh, And you guys
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were chatting and Russo said, you know, you can't buy a championship,
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but you can buy playoffs. But I mean, I guess you can't do
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that either. Huh. I mean five hundred million dollars payroll? And where
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did the Mets stand right now? What would I know? They just got
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rid of show Walter, what would uh if you know if you were GM
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and again the Mets, what, how do you how do you regroup?
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Yeah? Well, I guess what we learned is three hundred and ninety two
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million doesn't go as far as they used to, right, That's what we
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learned, right. So, But then again, I so I don't know
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that I would have traded Serzer and Verlander and here's why. Yeah, you
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got a couple of prospects in return. And I guess you know, part
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of it is trying to change the mindset to understand that money really doesn't mean
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anything to Steve Cohen, right, uh. And I did the at one
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point, I did the math on when they released Robbie Cano and they had
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forty million dollars left on his contract. Forty million dollars is to somebody with
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fourteen billion, It's the same as two hundred and eighty seven dollars to somebody
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with one hundred thousand dollars, right, So it's it really doesn't impact in
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any way. So you know, they can they can eat money and not
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matter. And and look at it that you know, I'm gonna eat thirty
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million, but I'm gonna get a good prospect, and so that'll help us
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in the future in a wale. But you know, if you're gonna win
19:08
next year, and I think they should try to win next year, I
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would have kept Berlander and Scherzer because the reality is there's not going to be
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obvious replacements for them in free agency now, even young guys who are going
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to be anywhere close to that. Julio arrest now suspended, and definitely we
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don't know if he's gonna ever pitch again. He was gonna be out there,
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and so you know, you left in a position where you start looking
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at twenty twenty five. I don't know. It just didn't feel to me
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like they were in a place to completely you know, you know, give
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up this year and next year as well, this early, especially when you've
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got money to spend in the ability to do it. So look, David
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Stearns is excellent. He is an outstanding executive. He'll do a great job
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for them. You know, Buck soul Walter out. Don't be surprised at
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Credit Councils the next manager. He's a free agent at the end of the
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season for hockey is a free agent now. I don't know that Craig Counsel
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is cut out for New York. It seems to me he's probably more of
20:06
a protected, smaller middle marketplace because you can't get worked up about the questions
20:11
you get asked in New York, and you know, and it seems to
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be like he had times could have a short few. So it'll be interesting
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to see, but I think it stands now. You'd have to look at
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him as the top candidate because he's a free agent not signed for next year,
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that he would be that David Stearns and Council of such a good relationship
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that he's probably the likely candidate in New York. Wow, some hot news
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there. I agree with you about like getting rid of the two pictures.
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I thought it was jumping the gun a little bit on that team. He
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still got a lot of talent on there. And I always wonder, you
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know, obviously when you were GM and you had really good years where you
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were buying, but I always you know, do you always have to sell
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if you're not good, Like you know, you could have just had some
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injuries one year, you could have had you know, just bad you know,
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bad bounces, you know, bad luck. But you have a good
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core. And then I feel some teams just kind of give up on it
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just because you know, it's trade deadline. We got to do something.
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We either buy or we sell. We buy our right. Yeah, So
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I think the Mets looked at it. He thought they should cut their losses
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on Verlander and sers Or because of their age, because they didn't trade Nemo
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and some of the other players that they had signed. Uh and and yet
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I think they're gonna have to make a decision on Pete Alonzo now too as
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to what he's going to be for them, because, uh, you know,
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if they don't get a deal done, then you probably have to trade
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them this winner. And you're already a team that doesn't score enough runs and
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he's your best offensive player. So they're going to have a complete retooling they're
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gonna have to do if they're going to be competitive in the next couple of
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years if they don't sign Pete Alonso. Right, So, like like I
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said before, if you were the GM of Gods now and you had Cohen's
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money, is it something you're just click in your chops or I mean there's
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the Billy Bean way to do it? And you know, obviously you spent
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when you were there, but you had you know, it's a New York
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team, it's not Oakland? Is that? What would that be your route
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with the Mets? Like you have to go buy now, you have to
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buy pitchings. You you know, got rid of your two pass pictures.
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But like you said, there's not much out there. So, right,
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Sang is pretty good. I like Sing a lot. I think he's gonna
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be a nice but yeah, I would. I would. I think you'd
22:27
have to spend, and you know, you hope you can develop, but
22:33
I think at some point they're gonna have to get out in the market and
22:36
start to, you know, retool the roster a little bit. I guess
22:37
the decissors to make on you know, they have position players that might have
22:42
some interest to teams out there that maybe they could trade him and bring some
22:45
pitching back. I don't know what Alonzo. You know, Pablo Alonzo's he's
22:49
a trade chip for sure, but he's also a big part of your offense.
22:53
And his issue is he wants to be paid like Aaron Judge, and
22:57
you know, he's pretty much boxed in. You know how the NFL running
23:02
backs get locked in. This is what they're worth. Yeah, this is
23:04
what the market says. You may think you're worth more than that, but
23:07
you know, this is what the market says, and you're sort of boxed
23:11
in on it. Well, when when Matt Olson and Freddie Freeman and Paul
23:15
Goldsman are all paid in a certain range. For Pete Alonzo, it's really
23:18
hard to separate himself from the first base market and say that he's more like
23:22
Aaron Judge. Now, I get he's in New York and he thinks he's
23:26
a leader in that, but I think he's got to have to come to
23:29
understand that. I can't imagine the free agent markets. Maybe somebody will pay
23:33
him three hundred and sixty million. Maybe, I mean he shit more home
23:37
runs than anybody going back to twenty eighteen. But yeah, but I but
23:41
I think that there's a number that makes sense that's much closer to where the
23:45
first baseman are than where Aaron Judge is. Yeah. Well, I think
23:49
Stearns did say today that he wanted to keep him and build around him.
23:55
I think I've read that this morning. Yeah, yeah, so right.
23:57
I think he's a good met you know. I think he's he gets it,
24:02
he gets the city. Uh you know, a little bit of a
24:04
show boater, which people like, you know. So, I mean he's
24:07
hitting forty something home runs a year, so yeah, it's kind of hard
24:11
to lose that. Yeah. No, And he cares, and he know
24:14
he wants to play for New York fans, and he's been generous with the
24:17
terrible things in the city. And so I mean he's he's listen, he's
24:22
he's the least of their problems, right, you know, with what they
24:25
have moving forward. Daily issue is they got to try to sign them and
24:27
keep them in uniform him. Yeah, all right, Well let's move on
24:30
to the other team in New York, the Yankees. So the Red Sox
24:34
of the Mets have kind of blown up their front offices. Uh, what
24:38
do you think the Yanks? Do they stick with the same combo again or
24:41
does at least one of them go? No, I think they keep both
24:45
of them. Yeah, I do. I mean Bryan Casper during the right
24:48
to keep being there. I mean, what twenty six years, he's never
24:52
been under five hundred, made the playoff twenty times in the twenty six years
24:56
or something like that. I mean, if I guess we had looked at
24:59
it is if you go out and if you say, okay, we're gonna
25:02
let him go, and you're gonna interview somebody, and somebody is gonna you
25:04
can say, the next guy is gonna get to the playoffs in twenty and
25:07
twenty six years, He's gonna get to the World Series and win three or
25:11
four times. You're gonna you've never been under five hundred ever in any of
25:15
the years that he's been a general manager, would you take that guy?
25:18
And the answers yes, whether you can't let the guy go, that you
25:21
have which just did that. And so I think Cashman's days, I think
25:26
Boone's days two. I think that they're connected. And I don't think they
25:29
had a managerial problem this year. They had a roster issue, they had
25:32
health issues, they got old, the new rules exposed their their Uh,
25:37
they're unathletic, older players that don't have rains. You know, it's easy
25:42
when when they when you could shift, you could hide lack of rains.
25:47
You could hide dj Lemaho's rage and Rizzo's rage because you have three guys on
25:52
the right side of second base. When the rules change, you can't do
25:55
the shift anymore. Rains becomes a factor and it gets exposed a little bit,
26:00
and stolen bases are part of the game now, an extra bases taken
26:03
to that, and so you know, they got caught with sited guys to
26:07
long term deals under the old rules, and now with the new rules,
26:11
they're not as athletic as the other teams out there. So it's gonna take
26:14
a little time. They're gonna have to get aggressive and creative. But I
26:17
think Brian Casher will be open to doing that. And they don't have the
26:21
pockets they used to have obviously with George passing, But you know they're always
26:25
they'll be in the market, I'm sure. And let's let's shift to show
26:30
Hey, Uh, I mean I was going to pose you this question.
26:37
Yanks socks Mets as one team or the Dodgers. Who gets who gets showy?
26:41
Or is there a Dodgers Dodgers? Yeah? Is that it? You
26:45
think that's no? Mystery? Comes in Giants? Yeah, Giants could absolutely
26:52
be in the Giants you know through three out of sixty million at judge last
26:55
year and would have kept going, right, So I think that they would
26:57
be an out of Tony. But he's gonna be you know, what's the
27:00
structure of a contract or the guy who's a two way player? Uh that
27:04
you know it was gonna want five hundred million, but you can't you don't
27:07
know what he's going to be as a picture right now. Uh. And
27:11
you know he's not a five hundred million dollars hitter. He's a good hitter,
27:14
a really good hitter, but he's not you know, so so finding
27:17
the right value is going to be difficult. I wouldn't sign Oh, Tony,
27:21
I wouldn't. I just I think the risk is too extreme for the
27:23
long term, for the pitching part of it. Uh. You know,
27:26
here's the thing. Yet, Tommy John five years ago, he's having it
27:29
again and or whatever he had done the procedure again to brace it or that.
27:33
But but he was also the most protected pitcher as a starter in baseball,
27:40
had six man rotation, they gave days off. He dictated what he
27:42
would pitch. Uh and and so if that didn't keep him healthy, then
27:48
what will. And you know, his body was making it really clear this
27:51
year, even before the elbow broke down, but it was rejecting the organ
27:55
of being a two way player. You know, he was cramping up.
27:57
He had the game of Detroit where in the complete game and then they put
28:00
him in the lineup the secutive of double Jo Lunson came out with an oblique
28:04
train h and he kept cramping up everywhere. His hands were cramping, his
28:08
side was cramping, his legs were cramping, and so H and I think
28:11
that's his body saying I can't keep doing this U. And it's remarkable what
28:17
he has been doing. So I just wouldn't be in on it. I
28:19
think the risk is too extreme. He doesn't fit the Yankees because the Yankees
28:23
have Stanton in. Stanton has to DH and I can't really play regularly in
28:29
the field, so that kind of bottles them up a little bit. U.
28:33
I mean, the Red Sox could certainly make a play on it,
28:34
and I think you'd fit in nicely up there. Uh and Rheta was really
28:37
good for them this year. But it s seems like the West Coast sees
28:41
me a preference and the Dodgers seemed to be the most obvious location giants up
28:47
there. Maybe Seattle as well, but I think he stays on the West
28:51
Coast. Yeah, I agree, definitely stays out there. Is I mean,
28:53
is the Angels even in the picture. I can't imagine. I think
29:00
it once they pulled the stunt that they did about the putting players on waivers
29:04
h and end of August, I think Atani had to be like a whate
29:08
am I doing? Dray, like, get me away from this, this
29:11
is this is nonsense what they're doing. Didn't he didn he go to well
29:15
now he's there was a video, but it was an old video really not
29:21
his locker because they knew he was getting surgery. Uh, and so he
29:23
got the surgery done. Uh. And that even has been ambiguous about exactly
29:27
what was done because his agent doesn't want to actually say what it is because
29:32
he wants to set them out the free agency like there's no concerns and no
29:36
worries, and so you know, they're not going to be clear publicly with
29:38
what exactly was done. You know, they said that the the ligament that
29:42
had been replaced previously was intact, and then they but then they said there
29:48
was a tear at the bottom of the ligament. So which is it?
29:51
Uh? And so you know, uh, and the ligament thoroughly heel like
29:53
that. They they can fill it with a scar tissue, but that's not
29:56
the same elasticity as the ligament is, and it's likely to tear again and
30:00
maybe even worse. And so, you know, I don't know somebody will
30:06
give him the money. I think it's probably gonna be the Dodgers. I
30:07
don't think the Angels have any chance of bringing them back. Yeah. So
30:11
what I find fascinating is he has you know, he's going to have the
30:15
surgery. Did he have the surgery yet? I'm sorry, yes, Yeah,
30:18
Okay, surgery. So they said he'll be at Tommy John. Yes,
30:22
so they'll he'll be actually be able to hit next year, just not
30:23
pitch, correct, Yes, right, Yeah, I just find that like
30:27
it's you know, he swings violently, you know, I mean, I
30:30
guess it's just a different different motion. Yeah, like Bryce, Bryce Harper
30:33
came back you know, one hundred and eighty days, uh, and this
30:37
past year and you know DH and now you know, working his way back
30:41
into throwing, plays the first base and a little bit of outfield. But
30:45
but yeah, so Tommy will take an entire year of not pitching in twenty
30:48
twenty four come back would be a pitcher in twenty twenty five. And I
30:51
suspect any contract he gets as opt out clauses so that if he does prove
30:56
that he's healthy pitching, that he can go back to free agency and get
30:59
the play day for the two way player, right right, But they'll,
31:03
hell, you're I think I think you're right. I mean, I'm a
31:04
Red Sox fan. I would love to see him, but like you know,
31:07
I kind of I gotta agree with you. It's it's so risky,
31:11
you know, and then and then if he just never pitches again, you're
31:15
gonna give a guy five hundred million just to be dh that's right? Yeah
31:19
you can't. Yeah, I can't do that. All right. Well that
31:22
brings us to the Socks. So obviously they had the big moves. They
31:25
got rid of Bloom. I've been hearing they've been trying to bump Core upstairs,
31:29
but Core doesn't want to go up yet, so he wants to manage.
31:30
Still. Uh, where where did they go? Uh? Actually,
31:36
one thing with your GM experience, I feel I'm not really high in Red
31:40
Sox ownership. Uh. I think they just, like, you know,
31:45
having the team in contention till September, so they sell out and I really
31:48
don't. I just don't think they. You know, It's it's comical for
31:51
me to say, because they won four World Series under that group, but
31:55
I just feel like it's they got their hands and so much other stuff,
31:59
you know, soccer team teams, hockey teams, they're trying to get a
32:01
team in Vegas and basketball. I just feel I don't know, I feel
32:06
like they were left out as Red Sox fans. I know they reset endeavors.
32:10
Xander Bogart's leaving doesn't look like the worst move in the world for the
32:15
money he got, uh you know, but Bloom hitched his wagon to you
32:21
know, Marcella Meyer and his draft picks. But you know, these kids
32:24
are still probably another year away. Cash has actually looked pretty well this year
32:29
in the second half. But what's your state of the socks right now?
32:32
Yeah, so they've got pieces that are part of a winning team. I
32:37
like Brian Bayo a lot, yes, but you know the picture this year
32:42
was. I mean, at one point Alex Corey had two starting pitchers and
32:45
they had to piece everything else together. You're not gonna win like that,
32:47
right in the American leagues. I mean, Campa Bay battled, but they
32:50
actually did it structural lead. They did it in Boston because of injuries to
32:53
everybody. You know, Whitlock went down and Hulk went down, and Sale
32:58
wasn't right. So you know, they've got to get some stability and you
33:01
know, they get up underneath the Sale contract. They've got to get some
33:05
stability in the rotation again. You know, they scored more runs than I
33:07
thought they would, and you know, you know, she did looks like
33:10
a solid player, more of a DH and he is anything else. He
33:13
does not run well. He does not defend well, but I do like
33:15
for Dugo Cash, this is uh, Christan Cashes. I think it's the
33:19
real you know, he's gonna keep getting better. But you know, there
33:23
are a number of pieces away, but they have some guys that are legitimate
33:27
players for them, and so, you know, and I think that that
33:30
Alex is really good at working matchups. He just got short, you know,
33:35
undermanned this year. Uh and you know, I don't know, you
33:38
know, how to assign the moves that are made to the GM in Boston.
33:44
I don't know, you know, what he has the flexibility to do
33:45
financially, what he doesn't you know, when we don't know that behind the
33:50
scenes, it wasn't Hung Bloom saying no, let's not spend here, let's
33:52
save money here, let's do that, or was he being told you can't
33:55
spend none of these guys and so we don't really know that. Yeah,
33:59
that was kind of my question as well, Like, you know, working
34:00
for the Wilpons with are moments that you know you're you're actually taking heat from
34:06
the media, but behind the scenes you're like, it's really not me,
34:08
you know, Well, yeah, every kid, every gentle manager does that,
34:13
right oh you're yeah. The number of times you protect ownership, it's
34:16
it's at every turn, every day, just about you're answering the question that
34:22
and you know to where I remember Art how and I had a conversation.
34:25
Art was one of my managers, replacing Bobby Valentine when he got let go.
34:30
I was gone by then, but he and I spoke on the phone.
34:31
He goes, if people only knew it actually went on behind the scenes
34:36
here, they would not believe it. They would it was. It is
34:40
absurd some of the stuff that happens. Uh. And you can't talk about
34:45
it, right, you know, you just you know, you don't explain
34:46
it in a certain way. And and uh, you know, and you
34:51
protect owners because it's their team. And you know, you understand that at
34:54
some point you're going to take a hit for something that you didn't have anything
34:58
to do with that you just actually shooting what people above you had told you
35:00
to do, all right, I remember, So you know, there was
35:05
the winter the Red Stock threw like this winter thing. It was actually at
35:08
the MGM granted Springfield last winter, like a fan fest or something. And
35:13
I don't know if you remember this, but they like booed him, Bloom
35:15
and Sam Kennedy and Bloom gets fi. I mean literally everyone's crushing Bloom,
35:22
you know. Uh, you know he had to. I think he you
35:23
know, I don't know if he botched the bets trade, but he definitely
35:27
didn't get enough in the return. Uh. You know signings here that Chris
35:31
Sale. Like after he got fired, it came out that he could actually
35:34
traded Chris Sale away and he chose not to. Uh, we would love
35:38
to get out from under that contract. But then when he got fired,
35:44
I actually I saw you you were you were at the MLB network. You
35:46
guys were talking about it, and I was like, now all these all
35:51
these like Bloom lovers came out of nowhere, like, oh you know,
35:54
it wasn't you know. I was just like he did this, he did
35:57
that, And you know, I'm like, well, what a thankless jobs.
36:01
You know. Oh, and likes you till you're gone. Right,
36:06
Oh, it's so true. Yeah, I mean, mess fans like you
36:07
a lot more now than the general manager. Right. Uh. And but
36:12
you're right, it's and part of it is that you get a different perspective
36:15
when you're in it. You know, you don't understand, and then when
36:19
you're further away. People remember more about the good things in the playoff years
36:22
than the non playoff years. But it's just the nature of the job.
36:25
It's that way everywhere. Uh. And I always thought the Mets job was
36:30
the toughest in all the sports because you're in the same time as the Yankees,
36:34
at least when I was there, George steinbron was only it. And
36:37
you know, there were the same expectations, yet not the same resources and
36:40
not the same level of commitment to winning. You know, George Steinbroner Brian
36:45
Casher would say, you know, we can say what do you have a
36:47
budget? He goes he didn't know, I don't have a budget. We
36:50
just go get what we need. And I'd be like, okay, you
36:52
know, here's my budget and this is all I can spend and this is
36:54
what I have. Uh. And it just was a different mentality, but
36:59
the same next dictations and so, you know, and that's just the nature
37:04
of the job. But but having the Yankees across town, with their history
37:07
and tradition and success and resources really made it toughy in the mess general manager,
37:12
right, And of course you're there during their dynasty, you know,
37:15
so you're seeing them win pretty straight and you know, it's funny they started
37:20
spending in like two thousand and two thousand, I think two thousand and one
37:22
is you know, the GMBS and all that, and uh, they've won
37:27
one since. You know, It's it's just, you know, you've got
37:30
to build the farm system and draft well, and you know, obviously trades
37:34
and everything else. And I think free agencies should be at the forefront.
37:38
But at the same time, you know it's it shouldn't. I wouldn't build
37:43
a team just strictly through free agency. Well, you need the blend of
37:45
youth and experience. Yeah. Uh. And you know you need athleticism even
37:52
more today than you used to because of the rule changes in banning the shift
37:55
and you can't hide players defensively anymore. And what happened to the Yankees happened
38:01
to me a little bit with the Mets, and that you get locked in
38:05
on older players with long term contracts you can't get out. Uh. You
38:08
know, it happened to the Phillies when they had Bryan Howard and Utley and
38:12
those guys at the end of their career. Happened to the Tigers when they
38:15
had I mean mcgell. Cabarros is you know part of that. You look
38:19
at it happened to the Angels with two holes in his contract, and so,
38:24
you know, the Dodgers have been good about if they give long term
38:29
money, they do it to a younger player, and they're willing to pay
38:31
older players more money, but but for a little shorter period of time,
38:36
so they don't ever get burnt on the big money for the long term.
38:39
And so yeah, so they've done some adjustments that have been made over time.
38:44
And with the Mets right now, I think they're gonna be like the
38:45
Inkees used to be, just get what you want and let's go win and
38:50
then we'll worry about budgets later. Like I feel, just with these rules
38:54
changes this year, I feel a shift coming too, you know, the
38:59
younger, more athletic player. I mean, do you think we look back
39:02
in ten years and you know, the older players just aren't kind of hanging
39:07
out. The Cabreras aren't playing until they're forty something, and it's just becomes
39:12
more of a youth movement in this sport. I mean, you got the
39:15
Ellie Day, La Cruz is coming up, and and these guys are phenomenal
39:20
to watch there. Yeah, yeah, I think there's still gonna be room
39:22
for the vet. Yeah, this will be room for the veteran players.
39:25
But I think that that it comes down to, you can't have four of
39:30
them on the same team, and they're gonna make less money, right,
39:31
So there's still gonna be a job for them. They're just not gonna get
39:35
paid, you know. And look, we've seen you know, teams go
39:37
where uh. You know, they don't give the thirty one to thirty three
39:42
year old the three, four or five year contract anymore. Uh, but
39:45
they're willing to give the twenty eight year old the ten year contract. Uh
39:51
and and still pay him for you know, his age thirty five, thirty
39:54
six, thirty seven years like what he's playing when he's twenty seven and uh
40:00
and so you know, at some point you're gonna get burned on those deals.
40:02
And they've all proven almost everyone has proven to be a bust. We
40:07
start looking at those long term deals, right, right, who wins the
40:10
n L m v P this year bets arena should be a landslide, right,
40:16
it's not even close. Yeah, yeah, that's what's making a push
40:20
in late August there. But I think a Kuna when he hit forty and
40:22
seventy. I think all these steals are from the p I mean, seventy
40:27
steals. We don't we haven't seen that in a while. Steals are up
40:29
from point five a game to point seven to a game. That's a big
40:32
leap. Yeah, it is a big leap. But but I think that,
40:37
I mean, I think the rule changes have been a big part of
40:39
it, and teams are taking advantage of it as well. Uh And I
40:44
honestly think that they should be stealing more than what they did, because the
40:46
success rate has been about eighty percent, right, And the analytics will tell
40:51
you that anywhere around seventy three seventy four percent success rate is satisfactory. And
40:58
so what it means if it's eighty is that you're not running enough. You
41:00
gotta take more chances. Uh And and so we'll see next year what those
41:04
numbers look like. All right, I'm excited for the playoffs. Uh,
41:07
they start tomorrow. We won't go through every matchup. You know, it's
41:12
impossible to predict this stuff. Playoff baseball is you can get real wacky sometimes,
41:17
but we do have some good matchups. Rangers Raised, Toronto, Minnesota's
41:21
Minnesota get over the schneide where they got some long losing streak in the playoffs,
41:24
don't they. Yeah, they've lost eighteen straight playoff game. That's almost
41:30
like automatically. Yeah. Uh, well maybe they'll get they'll squeeze a win
41:37
out in the next three days. Uh, Brewers, d Backs, Marlin's
41:40
Phillies. Uh. Instead of going through all these obviously Houston, Baltimore and
41:45
then the Braves and the Dodgers, those four teams got to buy Uh,
41:49
who's your I favor Houston just because of the experience and I don't know how
41:52
they came back and won that division, But who do you got? And
41:55
the Braves obviously, But so I've got I've got Braves in Blue Jays.
42:00
That was my preseason pick. And and so you know, I look at
42:07
it and think that, you know, Toronto has not really gotten hot yet
42:10
this year. They would start to stop, start to stop. Uh.
42:14
And they've got so much talent. They've got the the I guess, the
42:17
second best starting pitching e er a in the American League. They've got the
42:22
second best pitching overall on the season. They've got swinging this stuff in the
42:25
rocation in the bullpen. They're a really good defensive team. They just need
42:30
their offense to get hot. Lad Junior and uh In Baschette In Springer and
42:35
so yeah, I think that I think it's gonna be historting, and I
42:37
think they're being the The sixth seed helped them because they played Minnesota, which
42:43
I think is a better draw than having to play Tampa. And then they
42:45
play they have to play Houston, uh and uh and so you know,
42:50
Houston's gonna be tough because their lineup is so deep uh that you know,
42:53
if not Toronto, I think Houston is the other team that will go to
42:57
the World Series if if not Toronto, and I think that match up in
43:00
the al VS will will probably be the one that represents American League in the
43:06
World Series. Were you surprised by Baltimore this year? I was. I
43:10
still think they have the pitching ye to do what they did, but the
43:15
young position players are great and they proved me wrong. I mean, they've
43:17
really been terrific, and I mean Kyle Bradish has turned into an ace and
43:22
Grace and Arrigos looks like an ace. And so yeah, they've been a
43:27
pleasant surprise this year. And they still got some some guys waiting to get
43:30
up too. They're gonna be a team around for a while. As a
43:35
Red Sox fan, it doesn't look good in that division. It's a strong
43:38
division, that's for sure. I mean when I mean the Red six finished
43:42
last and there were only six games under, you know, so it's gonna
43:45
be a fight to get through here. I think it's gonna be Houston Braves
43:50
matchup. I will root for the Braves, but I think Houston's gonna win
43:54
it. I guess that's yeah, yeah, Houston. Listen. That's the
44:00
Braves are a really good team. I worry about they're starting pitching a little
44:04
bit with the health. Uh. You know, Kyle Wright hasn't been right
44:06
all year, Freed's got the blister, Kelly Morton's got some mission going.
44:09
So, you know, a little bit worried about their starting pitching. But
44:13
they've got a really good bull of tremendous offense. Uh, and they've got
44:16
the experience factor there too. So I do think Atlanta gets there. I
44:21
think Milwaukee could beat both Atlanta and the Dodgers. I think they're starting pitching
44:24
could they could be a sleeper in the National League. I think the American
44:29
League is either Houston or Baltimore or Toronto that ends up getting there. And
44:36
you know, the National League seems to me that it's it's Atlanta all the
44:37
way, right right, all right, Well, I'm gonna let you run
44:40
on this last question. The Red Sox are looking for a GM. You
44:44
got any insider info on who they're looking for? And would you ever consider
44:50
being a general manager? Again? Yeah, so, so I don't have
44:53
any inside info. It'll be interesting to see whether they go with, you
44:57
know, Dave Dombrowski type, which was more of a an old school baseball
45:00
guy who was not opposed analytics at all. Uh and, or do they
45:06
go with analytics driven again like they did behind bloom And I mean, to
45:10
me, I think the person you know, it should be a blend where
45:14
you've got some experience with what your eyes tell you, but the numbers are
45:17
certainly a tool that should not be disregarded. Uh and and so so it's
45:23
an interesting to see. I personally think that they're better served with somebody with
45:27
some experience that's done it before. But not for me, I'm I'm I
45:31
don't see myself in the mix. For those it's just it's a lifestyle of
45:37
one hundred, one hundred and sixty two games. Then the work starts and
45:39
uh, and it's not a lifestyle that that I think is in my wheelhouse
45:45
again. So we'll see, but I don't. I don't see me doing
45:47
that. I'd rather be a GM for all thirty teams talk about everybody,
45:52
and at the end of the day, I don't have an owner an owner's
45:53
son calling me, you know, give me a hard time about what's going
45:57
on with their team, right right, all right, Well, if you
46:00
ever take the socks job, I won't be one of those nasty fans I
46:05
like initially. Yeah, uh, Steve, I know you gotta run.
46:12
Thanks so much for the time. I look forward to watching you on MLB
46:15
Network and uh and on Sirius Xm'm listening to you in the car. Okay,
46:20
you got it. Thanks so much for having me appreciate anytime. Thanks
46:22
my friend. Good Bye,