Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / FRIDAY NIGHT SPECIAL: MOVIE SUPERSTAR ALEC BALDWIN CRASH - BLAMES MYSTERY DUMP TRUCK

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FRIDAY NIGHT SPECIAL: MOVIE SUPERSTAR ALEC BALDWIN CRASH - BLAMES MYSTERY DUMP TRUCK · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Friday Night Special. That's right,
0:10
Speaker 1: It's Friday Night and it's special. Does the name Alec
0:15
Speaker 1: Baldwin ring a bell? Well, he's back in the Last Days.
0:20
Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin has a mystery car crash and of course
0:27
Speaker 1: find someone else to blame. What is the truth behind
0:31
Speaker 1: movie superstar Alec Baldwin's quote, Well, car crash. I'm Nancy Grace,
0:40
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
0:42
Speaker 1: being with us. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
0:46
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us. Hampton's
0:50
Speaker 1: police State. Alec Baldwin insists he was not to blame
0:56
Speaker 1: for ramming his Range Rover into a fixed object, a tree.
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Speaker 1: New footage now emerging seemingly contradicts Baldwin's version of what
1:11
Speaker 1: happened in the crash. Now, Baldwin claims he slammed his
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Speaker 1: wife's SUV into a tree. He says it happens after
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Speaker 1: a I guess this is a trash truck. A National
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Speaker 1: Waste Services truck cut him off and sent him careening
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Speaker 1: to the side of the road. Now, new footage obtained
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Speaker 1: shot from inside the truck. The trash truck or dump
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Speaker 1: truck shows it exiting unimpeded. Okay, according to this footage,
1:56
Speaker 1: we understand Baldwin's car then emerges to the right the
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Speaker 1: vehicle and shoots off the road and smashes into a tree.
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Speaker 1: Huh ole at Baldwin's range. River seemingly shows up in
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Speaker 1: the shot of that I guess dash cam they've got
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Speaker 1: well after the truck completes the turn out onto the
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Speaker 1: street the quote disputed maneuver. So based on that video,
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Speaker 1: it seems that the dump truck had nothing to do
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Speaker 1: with Baldwin's SUV slamming into a tree. I'd like to
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Speaker 1: report nobody's hurt and Baldwin did not make a complete
2:44
Speaker 1: ass of himself this time for once. Now there are
2:48
Speaker 1: reports there was no sign at all the truck forced
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Speaker 1: Baldwin out of his lane, and there was no obstruction
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Speaker 1: on the road that required Baldwin to swerve off the road.
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Speaker 1: The significance of this is that he seemingly is blaming
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Speaker 1: either his suv or the dump truck, just like he
3:14
Speaker 1: blamed the self firing gun on the set of the
3:20
Speaker 1: Rust movie, where he, according to ballistics experts, pulled the
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Speaker 1: trigger and shot Helena Hutchins dead. Now, have I ever
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Speaker 1: believed he did it all purpose? No, I don't think that.
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Speaker 1: I think it was reckless and negligent that he fired
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Speaker 1: a gun pointed directly at someone. Yes, he likely you know,
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Speaker 1: I go out on a limb. He clearly thought it
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Speaker 1: was full of blanks. But he still pulled the trigger,
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Speaker 1: fired the gun, and it killed Helena Hutchins. He Baldwin kline,
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Speaker 1: the gun went off by itself. Okay, that's not true.
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Speaker 1: Hey lied that said. This is what we know of
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Speaker 1: the facts of Helena Hutson's shooting, dip tragedy.
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Speaker 2: On the film set of a new Alec Baldwin movie
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Speaker 2: and what police are calling a misfire of a prop
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Speaker 2: gun in Santa Fe, New Mexico. The Sheriff's office there
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Speaker 2: has just confirmed it was Baldwin who fired the prop
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Speaker 2: gun that killed a forty two year old female director
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Speaker 2: of stotography, Helena Hutchins. The film's director Juels Susa was
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Speaker 2: also hurt. This incident happened on the set of The
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Speaker 2: Western Rust. Now detectives are investigating what type of projectile
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Speaker 2: discharged from this gun.
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Speaker 1: You were just hearing our friend Christine Johnson was CBS
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Speaker 1: what really happened. According to reports, the assistant yelled out
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Speaker 1: cold gun just before the shooting, which means the gun
5:03
Speaker 1: was safe, that it was loaded with a blank. So
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Speaker 1: how do we have a woman, dad, another film person
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Speaker 1: injured with me and all star panel to make sense
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Speaker 1: of it all? If we can? With me? Dominic Romano
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Speaker 1: lawyer joining us out of New York at Romano Law
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Speaker 1: dot Com is specialty entertainment law, and I can tell
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Speaker 1: you if somebody's going to need a lawyer. Doctor Sherry
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Speaker 1: Schwartz forensic psychologists joining us. Karen L. Smith, forensic expert,
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Speaker 1: host of Shattered Soul's podcast at Beerbonesforensics dot com. Paul
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Speaker 1: Zeke joining us special guest, former police commander and author
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Speaker 1: of Stop Him From Killing Them on Amazon, and he
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Speaker 1: has lots of experience using firearms with blanks during live
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Speaker 1: action movie scenes like Terminator Salvation. Doctor Michelle dupre forensic pathologists,
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Speaker 1: former medical examiner, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, and
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Speaker 1: a former police detective. But first to Alexis Terreschuk, crime
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Speaker 1: online dot com investigative reporter joining us from Hollywood. Alexis
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Speaker 1: what is getting folded into the story, right or wrong?
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Speaker 1: Is Alec Baldwin's history, his reputation for let me just
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Speaker 1: say hot headedness to put it ephemistically. If he thought
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Speaker 1: it was a blank and it should have been a blank,
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Speaker 1: then history aside it was an accident. But how can
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Speaker 1: it really be an accident when somebody loaded this prop
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Speaker 1: gun with real bullets? Just start at the beginning.
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Speaker 3: They were on a set in Santa Fe, New Mexico.
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Speaker 3: It's a Western style movie. So they were sitting in
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Speaker 3: a church at an old church team and Alex Baldwen
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Speaker 3: was sitting in one of the pews and he was
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Speaker 3: practicing what's called a cross draw, and so that would
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Speaker 3: be where the person take your left hand and rabs
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Speaker 3: the gun out of the holster on your opposite hip,
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Speaker 3: pulls it across to fire. He was practicing this move
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Speaker 3: standing the cinematographer, which is the person that makes the
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Speaker 3: movie beautiful. This is the person that films the scene.
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Speaker 3: She was standing in front of him, with the assistant
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Speaker 3: director stands lembard with the director standing right behind her.
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Speaker 3: He was looking over her shoulder to see what it
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Speaker 3: would look like when Alex pulled the gun out. He
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Speaker 3: pulled it out of the side points it at her
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Speaker 3: to show them, pulls the trigger and it fires a
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Speaker 3: lot round.
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Speaker 1: Into her, hits.
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Speaker 4: Her in the stomach and actually believe goes.
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Speaker 3: Through her and grazes the director sitting standing right behind her.
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Speaker 1: Hush has pronounced dead at an Albuquerque hospital after being
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Speaker 1: rushed to the emergency room. You know what, I always
7:46
Speaker 1: love playing nine to one one calls for a jury
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Speaker 1: because it takes you back to what's really happening. Not
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Speaker 1: a description, not someone recounting what happened, but you're hearing
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Speaker 1: what really happened. Take a listen to the beginning of
8:00
Speaker 1: that nine one one call.
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Speaker 5: I was only going one watch the location of your emergency.
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Speaker 5: We need a met we needed butic Financa free grants
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Speaker 5: right now we touch the people shot on the movie accidentally,
8:13
Speaker 5: he said, someone with shot. Two people accidentally with gunshots
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Speaker 5: are on movie steps and as the Creek grants wonder,
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Speaker 5: I'll connect you with medical set. Who are you calling?
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Speaker 6: Where the road?
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Speaker 5: Don't hiring for emergency fantasy plan people accidentally shot on
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Speaker 5: a movie step live top gun. We need out the
8:42
Speaker 5: media like Finanza free grants, come on. They almost if
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Speaker 5: we were going, Okay, what is your name?
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Speaker 4: Mitchell?
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Speaker 5: Mitchell wants upon where you're calling from.
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Speaker 3: Five up, don't hang up?
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Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, just one stuff?
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Speaker 5: Accident for somebody else is calling calling better mass? Everybody
9:12
Speaker 5: should be can help our director in our cameraman as
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Speaker 5: a camera woman.
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Speaker 1: Now you hear repeatedly the word accident accidentally throughout that.
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Speaker 1: But is it an accident? Very often when you have,
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Speaker 1: for instance, a dui crash, people go, well, it was
9:32
Speaker 1: an accident. But was it because the driver chooses to
9:37
Speaker 1: go to a bar to order drinks, to drink, to
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Speaker 1: become legally intoxicated, to then get the car keys, walk
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Speaker 1: to the car, get in the car, crank up, reverse
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Speaker 1: and drive out onto the roads. That sounds pretty deliberate.
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Speaker 1: So is it an accident? Is it gross negligence? Well,
9:57
Speaker 1: take a listen to more of that nine to one
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Speaker 1: one call.
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Speaker 7: Was it loaded with a real hole?
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Speaker 5: Or I don't I cannot start you up? Okay, we
10:04
Speaker 5: have two injuries from the movie done. Josh were out
10:10
Speaker 5: there already the dam upon any single Okay, I see
10:16
Speaker 5: that yelled at me at lunch.
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Speaker 6: Could ask him about the vision.
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Speaker 5: You can ye and yell at me. He's a suggested gun.
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Speaker 1: He's responsible.
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Speaker 6: I have to danger.
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Speaker 5: How many no, no, no, no, I'm super hard.
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Speaker 6: I ran how many people angers?
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Speaker 3: True that I know of.
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Speaker 5: I was seeing we were hurting and it went off
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Speaker 5: and I ran out. We all ran out. There were
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Speaker 5: but doubles over the id and the camera woman and
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Speaker 5: the director and the director were clearing the road. Try
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Speaker 5: to come back. We're back on their way. Were back
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Speaker 5: in the town. I called, We're back in the western town.
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Speaker 7: Is there any serious bleeding?
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Speaker 4: I don't know.
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Speaker 5: I ran out of the building. But y nice, I
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Speaker 5: have to go through vehicle paint.
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Speaker 3: Are they.
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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace? Here's the thing. Just tell
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Speaker 1: the truth. I thought there were blanks in the gun.
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Speaker 1: I fired it. I shot her. It was an accident.
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. That would have been the truth. Or the
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Speaker 1: road was wet. I swerved off the side of it
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Speaker 1: and I crashed the darn SUV into the tree. Nobody
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Speaker 1: was hurt. Nobody's getting sued. That would be the truth.
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Speaker 1: Why blame the gun and lie? Why blame what did
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Speaker 1: he say? He blamed a quote? Well, call are okay?
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Speaker 1: Whal car crash? Why blame the driver of a dump truck?
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Speaker 1: Just you know, own up to it. Man, nobody's hurt,
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Speaker 1: nobody's dead, nobody's dismembered. Just why why, which leads me
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Speaker 1: back to the shooting of Helena Hutchins. Paul's like, thank
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Speaker 1: you for being with us. What went wrong? Obviously there
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Speaker 1: was a live bullet and what should have been a
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Speaker 1: prop gun.
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Speaker 6: But what happened, Nancy? The only explanation for this is
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Speaker 6: a systemic breakdown in systems that are in place to
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Speaker 6: ensure that live ammunition is not present on the set.
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Speaker 1: Okay, now that was a lot of words, Paul's I
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Speaker 1: think you're saying somebody didn't do their job.
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Speaker 6: Well, absolutely, somebody did not do their job and catastrophically
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Speaker 6: did not do that. There's no reason whatsoever for live
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Speaker 6: ammunition to be on the set of any set. Because
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Speaker 6: these weapons are capable of firing live rounds. They're not
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Speaker 6: really prop guns. They're deadly weapons being used as props.
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Speaker 1: Okay, hold on right there, I want to make that distinction.
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Speaker 1: You're absolutely right when look, I'm a trial lawyer, I'm
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Speaker 1: a legal expert. You're the expert in this world. When
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Speaker 1: I say prompt gun, I mean they're using it as
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Speaker 1: a prop. But you're making a very fine subtle but
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Speaker 1: important distinction. A prompt gun is a fake gun. I
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Speaker 1: don't think it even can shoot? Is that right.
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Speaker 6: Exactly you're talking about? And say it pop knife? Correct?
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Speaker 6: It has a flat edge on it. It's incapable of cutting you.
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Speaker 6: These are things that are not deemed to be dangerous.
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Speaker 6: A prop gun is simply as utilized on set. Are
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Speaker 6: weapons that are capable of firing live ammunition and therefore
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Speaker 6: accidentally live ammunition could be mixed with blank rounds. You know,
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Speaker 6: given time, this is just a disaster waiting to happen.
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Speaker 6: They need to move to true guns that are incapable
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Speaker 6: of chambering live ammunition. Until that happens, this has a
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Speaker 6: very strong chance of repeating itself.
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Speaker 1: Well, okay, tell me this. Paul Zaike, guys with me.
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Speaker 1: Paul Zike. He is a former police commander. He's an
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Speaker 1: author screen actors gil and has experience using blanks during
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Speaker 1: live action movie scenes where we all think they're shooting
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Speaker 1: real guns. If you suspend your disbelief in movies like
14:31
Speaker 1: His Terminator Salvation, those aren't real guns. So why are
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Speaker 1: they using a real gun? To start with? Paul Zike
14:39
Speaker 1: and I mean to me, having been forced to handle
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Speaker 1: so many guns and so many homicides. What moron wouldn't
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Speaker 1: make sure that there were blanks in the gun.
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Speaker 6: It's hard to imagine that during the loading of the
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Speaker 6: weapon that that was not viewed very strictly as a
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Speaker 6: weapon is loaded. And also there's a chain of custody
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Speaker 6: issue here on the scene of Terminator Salvation. As we
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Speaker 6: would go out and we would conduct the battle scene,
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Speaker 6: if you will, in the middle of the night, we
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Speaker 6: would be handed directly from the armor fully automatic weapons
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Speaker 6: and magazines, fully loaded with blanks, and we would head
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Speaker 6: straight out to where the scene was to be shot,
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Speaker 6: and then we would engage in the scene, you know,
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Speaker 6: five ten minutes later, hand the weapons straight back to
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Speaker 6: the armor, all the ammunition back to the armor, all
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Speaker 6: the magazines back to the armor, and we would not
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Speaker 6: be able to touch those weapons again until the next scene.
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Speaker 6: So from a chain of custody standpoint, it went directly
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Speaker 6: from the armor directly to my hand, my you know,
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Speaker 6: the co actor's hands that were with me, and that
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Speaker 6: was maintained very strictly.
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Speaker 1: Hold on, Paul, I've got to soak in everything you're saying,
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Speaker 1: because Dominate Romano a high profile lawyer joining us out
15:54
Speaker 1: of New York's specialty entertainment law. And that's why Dominate's
15:58
Speaker 1: joining us today. Dominate hold on. When you heard Paul's
16:02
Speaker 1: like say, chain of custody, I immediately thought of a
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Speaker 1: serial murderer that I prosecuted on one murder. We could
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Speaker 1: get him on one and ended up I would say
16:12
Speaker 1: three weeks before trial. I was just looking at the
16:14
Speaker 1: evidence and I noticed that the bag that contained the
16:19
Speaker 1: evidence wasn't signed. It had never been signed by the
16:24
Speaker 1: homicide cop that picked it up from It was DNA,
16:27
Speaker 1: and there was blood from where it had been taken
16:30
Speaker 1: and carried to the crime lab. It wasn't written on
16:32
Speaker 1: the back. Did anybody tamper with it? No, he just
16:35
Speaker 1: didn't put his initials. I'm like, oh, dear Lord in Heaven,
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Speaker 1: the chain is broken. This could be attacked at trial.
16:42
Speaker 1: I had to go back out to the jail stand
16:44
Speaker 1: there and look at this killer while he pulled his
16:46
Speaker 1: blood again. Then I carried it with my investigator myself
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Speaker 1: back to the crime lab to have it retested. Praise
16:54
Speaker 1: the Lord in Heaven. It was his DNA. Long story short,
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Speaker 1: that's chain of custody. Your case can be lost. You
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Speaker 1: can lose a serial killer because somebody didn't keep the
17:05
Speaker 1: chain to preserve the integrity of the trial. That's what
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Speaker 1: I thought when Paul zai, except chain of custody. But
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Speaker 1: did you also hear him say dominic romano he handed
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Speaker 1: it back to the It sounded like he was saying
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Speaker 1: armor or armory. But I've been reading about this case.
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Speaker 1: It's an arm er, armor er who is the person
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Speaker 1: in charge of all the weapons.
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Speaker 8: I think Paul is absolutely right looking no one should
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Speaker 8: ever be killed by a gun on a film set period.
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Speaker 8: Those are the words of Brandon Lee's sister. Brandon Lee
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Speaker 8: shot on a film set in the early nineteen nineties.
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Speaker 6: This should not happen.
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Speaker 8: There are established protocols, chains of command. I mean, there
17:48
Speaker 8: appears to be some serious gross negligence on that set
17:52
Speaker 8: to allow that to have that. That is the appearance,
17:55
Speaker 8: and I don't know what evidence can come out to
17:57
Speaker 8: rebut that presumption.
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Speaker 1: Five round in well, as Paul's ike has corrected me,
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Speaker 1: it's not a prop gun. They were using real guns. Hey,
18:08
Speaker 1: let me ask you a question, Paul's Ike, explain the
18:11
Speaker 1: difference and what a blank looks like as opposed to
18:14
Speaker 1: a live round a bullet. We're saying live rounds, we're
18:17
Speaker 1: talking about a bullet. What's the difference. Can't you just
18:21
Speaker 1: look at them and you can see the difference in.
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Speaker 6: Most cases, absolutely, it's very clear. You can see the
18:26
Speaker 6: difference in some types of calibers, say two two three,
18:31
Speaker 6: if you will, that's what an AR fifteen would shoot.
18:34
Speaker 6: The blanks are kind of crypt at the end to
18:39
Speaker 6: almost look like there's a bullet on the end of them.
18:42
Speaker 6: But any sort of trained professional whatsoever, when you're handling
18:45
Speaker 6: a blank, you know it's a blank. When it's a bullet,
18:47
Speaker 6: you know it's a bullet. The blank does not have
18:51
Speaker 6: a lead projectile or a steel projectile at the end
18:54
Speaker 6: of the round, So at the end it's either flat
18:57
Speaker 6: or it's slightly crimped to hold in the gunpowder, which
19:02
Speaker 6: the firearm usually needs the gunpowder to correctly function the
19:07
Speaker 6: weapon and cycle the weapon. And it's one of the
19:10
Speaker 6: reasons why blanks are used.
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Speaker 1: Okay, Paul Zike, I really respect you, but you're gonna
19:15
Speaker 1: have to dumb me down for me, okay, because I
19:17
Speaker 1: would have to put you through intensive training before you
19:20
Speaker 1: take the stand because a lot of people do not
19:23
Speaker 1: know what you just said. Just think about it and
19:26
Speaker 1: think if there's a way you can say it in
19:28
Speaker 1: more simple terms. What's the difference between a blank and
19:31
Speaker 1: a lie bullet when you look at it? Speak English Man.
19:35
Speaker 1: In the meantime, Wait a minute. You mentioned Brandon Lee,
19:38
Speaker 1: and you're absolutely right. We pulled sound of other cases
19:42
Speaker 1: almost identical to this. This is not the first time
19:46
Speaker 1: it's happened, believe it or not, Tyler, could you roll
19:48
Speaker 1: our cut forty four? Let's follow up on what Paul
19:51
Speaker 1: Zike said about Brandon Lee.
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Speaker 9: That's a bully coun that killed Brandon Lee. Some believe
19:57
Speaker 9: a piece of a croplyd without gunpowder and it may
19:59
Speaker 9: have been left accidentally in the gun blank was fired
20:02
Speaker 9: at Brandon some fiel let's shot out the properly, mortally
20:05
Speaker 9: wounding him.
20:06
Speaker 4: There was an accident waiting to happen.
20:08
Speaker 9: The Crow crewmember we spoke but says that there were
20:10
Speaker 9: many opportunities for an accident to happen. Are the working
20:14
Speaker 9: conditions on the set of the Crow particularly bad?
20:17
Speaker 10: Threely long hours, eighteen hour days back to back at times,
20:22
Speaker 10: pushing ninety one hundred.
20:23
Speaker 1: Hours a week and six day weeks way too much?
20:26
Speaker 9: Do you think that that over work, that exhaustion might
20:30
Speaker 9: have resulted in this accident.
20:32
Speaker 1: Sage, your cautious.
20:33
Speaker 8: Olivan were definitely not called.
20:35
Speaker 6: It could have been prevented.
20:38
Speaker 1: With better management. The publicist for.
20:40
Speaker 9: The movie The Crow denies that the working conditions were unsane.
20:44
Speaker 11: Certainly everyone was very tired and exhausted from the shoe,
20:47
Speaker 11: but these are professionals and they're used to working conditions
20:49
Speaker 11: like this.
20:50
Speaker 1: Okay, guys, you were hearing our friends and inside Edition,
20:53
Speaker 1: and I want to follow up on what we're just
20:54
Speaker 1: hearing with Alexis est Chuck. I played that sound for
20:58
Speaker 1: a reason, Alexis, because on the Alec Baldwin set of Rust,
21:03
Speaker 1: there apparently were problems with working conditions. A group of
21:09
Speaker 1: the crew had walked out I think the night before
21:12
Speaker 1: the claiming that they had bad hotels. They were an
21:15
Speaker 1: hour away from a hotel or motel and if they
21:18
Speaker 1: worked late into the night they have to drive through
21:21
Speaker 1: I guess the desert, and a lot of them were
21:23
Speaker 1: actually sleeping in their cars overnight. That's just some of
21:26
Speaker 1: the complaints I've heard. But what are the other complaints,
21:31
Speaker 1: if any, on the Alec Baldwin movie set.
21:34
Speaker 3: Well, there have been complaints that things were not safe.
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Speaker 1: Quote.
21:38
Speaker 3: One of the the person is being directly blamed for
21:42
Speaker 3: a lot of the unfaked is when you were listening
21:44
Speaker 3: to the nine one one call and you said you
21:45
Speaker 3: heard the woman saying that he was yelling at me
21:47
Speaker 3: things like that. This is the assistant director that they're
21:50
Speaker 3: talking about. And this is the assistant director David Hall
21:53
Speaker 3: who handed the gun to Baldwin and said this is
21:57
Speaker 3: a cold gun. So what the people on that we're
22:00
Speaker 3: saying is that Halls was not a responcable person. He
22:03
Speaker 3: was very angry. He was making the job very difficult
22:07
Speaker 3: for everybody to do, and they didn't trust him.
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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, you're saying David Halls was an assistant director. Yeah, okay,
22:13
Speaker 1: Well what about the honorer? Is she the one responsible
22:16
Speaker 1: for all the weapons and the blanks or the bullets? Guys,
22:21
Speaker 1: take another listen to our cut forty three. This is
22:24
Speaker 1: about practically the same thing happening before. Listen.
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Speaker 9: It was here at the Carrol Coast Studios in Wilmington,
22:31
Speaker 9: North Carolina, that actor Brandon Lee was filming The Crow. Ironically,
22:36
Speaker 9: the film.
22:36
Speaker 1: Is about a man who.
22:37
Speaker 9: Dies and comes back to life to advanish his death
22:40
Speaker 9: shortly after midnight last Tuesday. Brandon Lee was preparing to
22:44
Speaker 9: film a routine action scene.
22:46
Speaker 10: The script for him to get shot as he walks
22:48
Speaker 10: through door carrying a bag of groceries. Michael Massey, the
22:52
Speaker 10: actor doing the shooting, is reportedly devastated by Lee's death
22:56
Speaker 10: and remains in seclusion.
22:58
Speaker 9: The Gunny was using was supposed to be loaded with
23:00
Speaker 9: blanks from the camera's role. Brandon Lee was performing for
23:04
Speaker 9: the last time.
23:06
Speaker 1: The first episodes of a reality show starring Alec Baldwin,
23:10
Speaker 1: his wife, and their seven children are hitting the airwaves now.
23:15
Speaker 1: According to a string of PR specialists, no one can
23:19
Speaker 1: imagine any advisor would have recommended the ball once agree
23:23
Speaker 1: to a reality series in the very best of times,
23:28
Speaker 1: let alone after the shooting death of cinematographer Helena Hutchins Way,
23:35
Speaker 1: you and Teren Smith, well, we.
23:37
Speaker 4: Deal a lot with forensics. In physics.
23:39
Speaker 6: When we do a.
23:40
Speaker 4: Reconstruction, we use snippets of time and sometimes that can
23:43
Speaker 4: be split seconds, and this includes trajectories of projectiles, and
23:47
Speaker 4: this trajectory can generally be explained by the reporting. Alec
23:51
Speaker 4: Baldwin was reported to be sitting at a church pew
23:53
Speaker 4: to align a camera angle. When the gun was fired,
23:56
Speaker 4: Alena Hutchins then collapsed on the floor and Juels Susa
23:59
Speaker 4: was struck and the clavicles. That's an upward trajectory, which means.
24:03
Speaker 12: Both Hutchins and thus we're standing up when the event occurred.
24:06
Speaker 12: The projectile that perforated Helena's body and subsequently structurals. Now,
24:11
Speaker 12: in order for that to happen, the kinetic energy, which
24:15
Speaker 12: is energy as the result of motion, would be very high.
24:18
Speaker 12: We're dealing with mass or the amount.
24:21
Speaker 4: Of matter in an object and energy dispersion.
24:24
Speaker 12: Guns carry a high volume of energy in a small space,
24:27
Speaker 12: and that from my experience, it tells me that it
24:29
Speaker 12: was something other than just the paper or elastic wadding
24:33
Speaker 12: from a blank round. That needs to be confirmed by
24:36
Speaker 12: the EMMY.
24:36
Speaker 4: And the investigator's But there are reports of live ammunition
24:40
Speaker 4: bullets being on the set and that particular gun allegedly
24:45
Speaker 4: being used for target practice that morning. There's a lot
24:48
Speaker 4: of questions that needs to be answered by the investigators
24:50
Speaker 4: and theme.
24:52
Speaker 1: Again for the set being used as target practice. Paul Zi,
24:57
Speaker 1: that shouldn't be that you've got crew members out shooting bottles.
25:01
Speaker 1: I think that that's coming out with live bullets, and
25:05
Speaker 1: you use that same gun for a saye and a
25:09
Speaker 1: church full of people, and Nancy, I.
25:11
Speaker 6: Just want to clarify the prior point, so very simply,
25:14
Speaker 6: a blank is a shellcasing with gunpowder in it, with
25:18
Speaker 6: no bullet. A bullet is the same exact thing with
25:21
Speaker 6: more gunpowder and a live bullet at the end of
25:25
Speaker 6: it that is made to travel through the barrel and
25:28
Speaker 6: exit the weapon. Back to what you were saying, that
25:32
Speaker 6: the cardinal rule that's been broken, whether you're whether you're
25:34
Speaker 6: involved in police training or you're involved in a movie set,
25:39
Speaker 6: keeping live ammunition away from weapons that fire live ammunition
25:44
Speaker 6: and keeping weapons at fire blanks away from those instances.
25:48
Speaker 6: And when you mix those two together, the odds of
25:51
Speaker 6: somebody having a spare live round in one of their
25:53
Speaker 6: pockets or you name it is super high, and it
25:58
Speaker 6: sounds very sloppy, and it just just opens the door
26:03
Speaker 6: for terrible things that happen. And that's where the systemic
26:06
Speaker 6: breakdown and that controlled environment.
26:09
Speaker 1: I'm telling of Paul's like, You're right, super sloppy is
26:12
Speaker 1: one way to put it. Gross negligence or unintentional murder
26:17
Speaker 1: is another way to put it. I think I hear
26:18
Speaker 1: Dominant Ramano jumping in. Go ahead.
26:20
Speaker 8: Yeah, basically it's a catastrophic miscalculation. I think two people
26:24
Speaker 8: here should be folks. We should focus on one is
26:29
Speaker 8: the armor like this is only according to reports or
26:33
Speaker 8: second movie with jars Read and the assistant director Dave Hauls.
26:36
Speaker 6: You mentioned before.
26:37
Speaker 8: According to reports, he was fired from a twenty nineteen
26:40
Speaker 8: production of Freedom's Past a minor injury.
26:44
Speaker 1: Well, Whitney, White, White, you got me drinking from the
26:48
Speaker 1: fire hydrant, which is not a bad thing. It's too
26:50
Speaker 1: much at once. Hold on in the world, would you
26:52
Speaker 1: have somebody that was fired off another similar job handling
26:56
Speaker 1: your weapon? Okay? Is that what you just said? Dominant?
27:00
Speaker 6: Okay?
27:01
Speaker 1: Almost so almost. The armorer is twenty.
27:04
Speaker 8: Four years old, the person handling the weapons, it's only
27:07
Speaker 8: her second film. She was just in a podcast last
27:10
Speaker 8: month where she said, you know, she's a bit nervous
27:13
Speaker 8: about her film, but it went well her while there
27:15
Speaker 8: is apparently a famous armor okay, so we have that
27:17
Speaker 8: an experienced armor. Number two, we have the assistant director
27:21
Speaker 8: known as the ad Dve Holes. Apparently, according to a report,
27:24
Speaker 8: he was fired from its twenty nineteen production The movie
27:28
Speaker 8: was freedom passed after crew members suffered guess what, a
27:31
Speaker 8: minor injury when a gun unexpectedly discharged.
27:36
Speaker 1: Dominic Ramano, there were similar transactions are jumping to mind.
27:41
Speaker 1: I mean, this solidifies my thought that this is not
27:46
Speaker 1: an accident, because an accent when you totally don't see
27:51
Speaker 1: it coming, it's just like out of the blue. But
27:53
Speaker 1: if this guy, if it's correct, the ad had a
27:56
Speaker 1: previous incident, for somebody was shot on a set, and
28:00
Speaker 1: if it was a minor injury, then you should have
28:03
Speaker 1: seen either new or should have known. Would you agree
28:05
Speaker 1: with that, Dominic Romano?
28:07
Speaker 8: They're going to be some serious questions to be asked
28:12
Speaker 8: and there have to be answers, and if we don't
28:16
Speaker 8: have good answers, someone is either going to be involved
28:20
Speaker 8: in a very expensive lawsuit or depending on what they
28:24
Speaker 8: knew and when they knew it and how careless they were,
28:27
Speaker 8: probably facing some time. The other issue you alluded to
28:30
Speaker 8: earlier is, you know, cost cutting. It's rampant in the
28:34
Speaker 8: industry right now, and the production company's decision not to
28:39
Speaker 8: book to crew hotel rooms near the actual set, but
28:43
Speaker 8: to have them travel an hour in each direction to
28:46
Speaker 8: get to and from their accommodation to have long hours
28:50
Speaker 8: where people walked off the set earlier that day in protest.
28:54
Speaker 6: So this is a.
28:56
Speaker 8: Combination of what turned out to be a lethal combination
29:00
Speaker 8: catastrophic calculation on the part of the production company.
29:03
Speaker 1: Well you just said a mouthful, all in a good way,
29:06
Speaker 1: between the armorer being an experience, the ad having a
29:10
Speaker 1: prior similar transaction, and budget cuts problems amongst the crew.
29:15
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut six that from our
29:18
Speaker 1: friends at News Nation. Now let's start.
29:20
Speaker 11: With the people responsible for handling a gun. There are
29:23
Speaker 11: no ubiquorous rules across all film sets, but generally there
29:26
Speaker 11: are some guidelines that they follow, and here into a
29:29
Speaker 11: budget project usually plays a big role. By many sets,
29:31
Speaker 11: there are no fewer than three people responsible for monitoring
29:35
Speaker 11: a weapon. Prop Mastercums in charge of all cross is
29:37
Speaker 11: often supported by a safety officer and a sub coordinator,
29:41
Speaker 11: and depending on the state, you may also need to
29:43
Speaker 11: bring in an armorer whose only job is handling weapons.
29:50
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace in the Last Days, Hampton
29:57
Speaker 1: detectives find no criminality in Alec Baldwin's car crash striking
30:05
Speaker 1: a fixed object, but couldn't just stop there Baldwin had
30:13
Speaker 1: to blame the driver of a dump truck for him
30:16
Speaker 1: Baldwin veering off the road and hitting a tree. Baldwin,
30:22
Speaker 1: who killed a cinematographer Helena Hutchins on the set of
30:26
Speaker 1: a Western movie, says he quotes felt bad for crashing
30:31
Speaker 1: his wife's car. Okay, but just keep telling the truth.
30:37
Speaker 1: You don't have to lie about it. And for once,
30:42
Speaker 1: Baldwin was not throwing some sort of a tantrum. He
30:46
Speaker 1: actually managed to keep his pieholes shut. What happened the
30:52
Speaker 1: day of the crash and the Hamptons we may never know.
30:56
Speaker 1: According to footage obtained from inside the dump truck, the
31:00
Speaker 1: dump truck or trash truck had nothing to do with
31:03
Speaker 1: bottom of veering off the side of the road. Okay,
31:07
Speaker 1: no harm, no foul, nobody's hurt. The significance of this
31:11
Speaker 1: is that he came up with a lie seemingly.
31:17
Speaker 12: Just like.
31:19
Speaker 1: The lie according to Manny he told on the set
31:23
Speaker 1: of Rust about the death of a young mom, Doctor Dupree,
31:30
Speaker 1: I'm sure you, like myself, have had to handle weapons
31:34
Speaker 1: in front of jury's and I learned this from watching
31:38
Speaker 1: a pro trycases. I would always pick the gun up,
31:43
Speaker 1: holding it face down with a barrel pointing to the
31:48
Speaker 1: ground so the jury or anyone else would not be alarmed.
31:51
Speaker 1: What you don't want to do is scare your jury.
31:55
Speaker 1: I would walk in front of the jury holding the weapon,
31:57
Speaker 1: nose down, open the chain, let them see me check it,
32:02
Speaker 1: hold it up like I was examining it through you know,
32:07
Speaker 1: my eye level, so they could see that it was empty,
32:11
Speaker 1: and then shut it and then give it to the
32:14
Speaker 1: witness without fail. Even if it was a weapon that
32:19
Speaker 1: I knew was inoperable, that was sp Why would that
32:26
Speaker 1: not occur on a movie set? But describe how you're
32:29
Speaker 1: supposed to handle weapons exactly.
32:32
Speaker 4: Antsy, You described it perfectly.
32:33
Speaker 7: That is exactly what you should do. And if you're
32:35
Speaker 7: giving a weapon to someone else, normally you have the
32:38
Speaker 7: chamber open so that they can also see and then.
32:41
Speaker 3: You both check it.
32:42
Speaker 7: And know that it's empty or that the blanks are
32:45
Speaker 7: in it.
32:46
Speaker 1: Tell me what you can discern about what Karen Smith,
32:50
Speaker 1: forensics expert, just told us about the injuries. What happened, Nancy.
32:55
Speaker 7: Even though these are quote prop guns or blanks, they
32:58
Speaker 7: can still obviously devastating damage the wadding or whatever they
33:03
Speaker 7: are filled with. Even in a blank. But this was
33:05
Speaker 7: not a blink. This was an actual projectile.
33:08
Speaker 1: And as we know, you mean a bullet speak English,
33:12
Speaker 1: a bullet.
33:13
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, this is a bullet.
33:15
Speaker 7: And the caliber of that bullet of the gun is
33:18
Speaker 7: what is going to determine how much damage is done.
33:21
Speaker 7: As she explained, the higher the caliber, the more energy
33:25
Speaker 7: in that bullet, and so the more damage done to
33:28
Speaker 7: the physical body. And of course the location where that
33:31
Speaker 7: bullet enters the body in this case was devastating.
33:36
Speaker 1: You know, another issue to doctor Sherry Schwartz. I've been
33:38
Speaker 1: on a lot of TV sets, obviously, and movie sets
33:41
Speaker 1: for you know, cameos or some legal issue. And I
33:46
Speaker 1: got to tell you, doctor Sherry Schwartz, a movie set
33:49
Speaker 1: takes on a whole. It's like you're in a different world.
33:53
Speaker 1: Like when you go to the movies and you sit
33:55
Speaker 1: down and it goes dark, your mind takes you there. Well,
33:59
Speaker 1: you're on a movie set. I've never been on a
34:02
Speaker 1: single movie set that went on time. You go till
34:05
Speaker 1: one or two o'clock in the morning, it's pitch dark outside.
34:09
Speaker 1: You keep going until you get the shot or you
34:12
Speaker 1: finish this scene or whatever it's called in movie world.
34:16
Speaker 1: I think that there is a suspended fear. You think
34:21
Speaker 1: you're at a movie set, like when you go to
34:23
Speaker 1: Disneyland or when you're on vacation on a cruise ship.
34:26
Speaker 1: You suspend your normal thinking it doesn't seem real and
34:32
Speaker 1: you're not thinking, wow, there's a gun I could get
34:35
Speaker 1: shot because it's quote just a movie. It's not real.
34:40
Speaker 1: How do we let me just say, suspend our disbelief,
34:44
Speaker 1: suspend rational rules of functioning when you're on a movie
34:49
Speaker 1: set or in a movie. You know, like in a
34:50
Speaker 1: movie is where there's some nut with a gun and
34:54
Speaker 1: you hear a sound, but you don't think it's real
34:56
Speaker 1: because you're in a movie. What happens in the human mind, Sherry, Well.
35:01
Speaker 13: When you don't think that something is actually real, then
35:06
Speaker 13: you would not calculate accurately what the potential risks are, right,
35:12
Speaker 13: And so there is this gun on the set, but
35:15
Speaker 13: everybody thinks, oh, it's just make believe. We're setting this
35:18
Speaker 13: up to film it. Nobody's actually going to get hurt.
35:22
Speaker 13: And so what happens mentally is that you underestimate what
35:26
Speaker 13: the potential risks are. And what happened here is an
35:30
Speaker 13: egregious underestimation, right, so for the rest of us, it's
35:33
Speaker 13: to make believes. Maybe even for the actor, they know
35:37
Speaker 13: that they're just playing a role, and everybody around them
35:39
Speaker 13: might know they're playing a role. But there are people
35:41
Speaker 13: on the set who are responsible for that gun and
35:45
Speaker 13: for taking that proper care and knowing what the potential
35:48
Speaker 13: risks are.
35:49
Speaker 1: Do you, Alexis treshat Crime online dot Com investigative reporter,
35:53
Speaker 1: you have heard Dominant Romano Paul's like, well, everyone on
35:57
Speaker 1: the panel weighing in, But apparently there were a lot
35:59
Speaker 1: of problems and a lot of disgruntled crew members. I
36:04
Speaker 1: understand that one of the motels they had set them
36:06
Speaker 1: up to stay overnight was at a place for the homeless,
36:11
Speaker 1: and there were drug addicts there. They were afraid to
36:16
Speaker 1: stay there. What was going on on the set, well, it.
36:19
Speaker 3: Seems like what they were trying to do was make
36:21
Speaker 3: this film cheaply a possible understandable, but they were putting
36:25
Speaker 3: people's lives at risk.
36:26
Speaker 1: It was fifties.
36:27
Speaker 3: Hotels were fifty miles away, so after working fourteen hour days,
36:31
Speaker 3: the crew was having to drive over an hour to
36:34
Speaker 3: get to their hotel. Then they would have to be
36:36
Speaker 3: back within like six hours, so they would get almost
36:38
Speaker 3: no sleep at all. But they were also saying that
36:40
Speaker 3: things were just not safe. There had been an incident
36:44
Speaker 3: a few days earlier that one of the prop guns
36:47
Speaker 3: again prop real gun, had been accidentally fired, and so
36:51
Speaker 3: the crew had been complaining to the producer, saying this
36:54
Speaker 3: is not a safe working environment, and they walked off
36:59
Speaker 3: the set. So Hollywood is very much a union of business,
37:05
Speaker 3: but the producers hired non union people to replace them.
37:08
Speaker 3: These nine union people, though, are not the people. That's
37:11
Speaker 3: not the armor and it's not the assistant director, and
37:14
Speaker 3: everybody's been talking there at the line of protocol.
37:17
Speaker 1: You have so many steps in.
37:19
Speaker 3: The line of defense, so that when this gun got
37:22
Speaker 3: to Alex Baldwin, at least two other people were responsible
37:26
Speaker 3: for saying that it wasn't loaded.
37:28
Speaker 1: I mean, didn't somebody even scream out cold gun? I
37:33
Speaker 1: mean they have to yell it out, you know what
37:36
Speaker 1: you were just saying. I know so many times for
37:38
Speaker 1: different shoots. I don't know who he is that carries
37:42
Speaker 1: that comes over and they have to do it a
37:45
Speaker 1: certain way, they have to say a certain thing, and
37:48
Speaker 1: they say it really loudly. I don't know why, but
37:51
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a reason for it, just like they
37:54
Speaker 1: would yell out cold gun and everybody would hear it.
37:58
Speaker 1: But I guess they yelled it out without banking Alexis.
38:01
Speaker 3: And there are reports that yes, So there were three
38:04
Speaker 3: guns that were set up and they were put on
38:06
Speaker 3: a table outside the church set. And it's because of
38:09
Speaker 3: COVID nineteen protocols, so not a lot of people are
38:12
Speaker 3: in the if it's an inclosed set, they're not there
38:15
Speaker 3: three guns. So the assistant director picked it up. Dave Halls,
38:19
Speaker 3: as the other guy said, you know, has a history
38:21
Speaker 3: of a lot of accidents on sets, and handed it
38:24
Speaker 3: to Bodlin and he is the one that yelled out
38:27
Speaker 3: cold gun. There's no nobody had said there's so many
38:30
Speaker 3: people have spoken to the police on the set, so
38:33
Speaker 3: many of the other crew members, and they said they
38:36
Speaker 3: didn't know whether it actually was empty or not. And
38:40
Speaker 3: these guns were used at lunch. This is a post
38:43
Speaker 3: lunch break, so they broke for lunch at twelve thirty.
38:45
Speaker 3: They come back after lunch. During that lunchtime, there are
38:48
Speaker 3: reports that those crew members were using this gun and
38:52
Speaker 3: other guns to shoot beer bottles out in the desert
38:55
Speaker 3: area and using it as target practice, so there could
38:58
Speaker 3: have been alive and then said there were lots of
39:01
Speaker 3: live ammunition. Nobody was told they couldn't bring live ammunition
39:04
Speaker 3: on set. That's another thing that.
39:06
Speaker 1: You live around on set.
39:08
Speaker 3: That's a big problem here, and I think.
39:10
Speaker 1: I'd like to jump in there.
39:13
Speaker 6: It's it's it's simply a breakdown of the security of
39:18
Speaker 6: the scene. The only people there that our arms should
39:20
Speaker 6: be security personnel. And you know, in my years, my
39:23
Speaker 6: decade of fighting to keep workplaces safe and to stop
39:28
Speaker 6: stalking offenders from killing victims, I can tell you one thing,
39:32
Speaker 6: and that is nobody thinks the unthinkable is going to happen.
39:36
Speaker 6: It's a matter of just human thinking. They think that, well,
39:39
Speaker 6: that happened to somebody else, that didn't happen to me.
39:42
Speaker 6: And because this is somewhat of a rare occurrence on
39:45
Speaker 6: a set, people got laxed, They got lackadaisical about fundamental
39:50
Speaker 6: when it comes to shooting a scene such as this.
39:54
Speaker 6: And just like at any workplace, this is a workplace
39:57
Speaker 6: out in the middle of the desert, just like it
39:58
Speaker 6: would be in an office building. Those protocols broke down
40:02
Speaker 6: in people at work attempting to do the right thing,
40:06
Speaker 6: for the right reasons. Had a catastrophic, devastating thing happened,
40:10
Speaker 6: because we as human beings think, well, if it hasn't happened,
40:14
Speaker 6: it won't happen. And that's just not the reality of
40:16
Speaker 6: life when it comes to dangerous events.
40:18
Speaker 1: I mean, just like you said, the gun went off
40:20
Speaker 1: on its own when he shot Helena Hutchins dead. Now
40:26
Speaker 1: he slams into a tree and he blames a mystery
40:32
Speaker 1: dump truck. M video reveals otherwise. Nancy Grace Sonia, Goodbye.