Latest / Harder Than Life / Why Dads Matter More Than You Think

Transcript

Why Dads Matter More Than You Think · Harder Than Life

• 0:00
  What's a secret weapon most dads have that they don't even realize? If you want to know the answer to that question, Google fatherless home statistics. Those numbers will show you. I think it's 92% of incarcerated individuals come from a fatherless environment. It's like 82% of drug addicts come from a fatherless environment. Because a lot of guys are like, I don't really make that big of a difference.
• 0:22
  you make a huge difference. I'll never forget when I first heard this quote, and I think Napoleon Hill was the one who said it, but the definition of hell is being on your deathbed and meeting the man that you could have become. That is what fuels me more than anything, because the thing that I see many men live with is regret.
• 0:40
  We never regret the time that we took off work to go on the field trip with our kids. We never regret the Friday that we took off work to go escape and have a day date with our wife, even if it meant making more money. At the end of my life, what I want to be surrounded with is photos. Photos and memories. Photos and memories.
• 1:01
  The good news is anybody can be a generational pattern breaker if they want to learn. If you want to really learn validation and you want to create environments of psychological safety, this is what you do. So you ask them three questions every day. What was the best part of your day? Now, here's the second question. This one's tougher. What'd you fail at today? What challenged you today? The next question is, what are you most excited about tomorrow? An interested dad is the most interesting dad.
• 1:27
  I'm Kelly Siegel and this is harder than life a podcast about self-love self-awareness business and health We tell outrageous stories and boil everything down to simple practical advice you can start using today Let's get living. Welcome back to the harder than life show My guest today is a man who has turned his deepest wounds in a generational wisdom Larry Hagner is the founder of the dad edge and host the
• 1:51
  of the dad edge podcast one of the most listened to fatherhood shows on the planet with over 40 million downloads larry didn't just talk about becoming a great dad he earned it raised with a consistent without a consistent father figure sounds familiar surrounded by abuse and chaos also sounds familiar
• 2:13
  Larry made a vow as a kid, his children would know their father. He's kept that promise and built a global movement helping other men do the same. We dive into the raw reality of fatherhood, what it takes to lead your family in this chaotic world, how to course correct when you screw up and you will, and why connection is the currency of fatherhood. Whether you're a dad, a husband, a leader, or a man trying to become one, this episode is for you. Larry, my brother,
• 2:42
  Welcome to the show, man. I hope I can live up to that amazing intro. That was really fantastic. I was like, wow, like I hope maybe I should go get this guy out of the other room or something like that. So 40 million downloads is impressive. You know, in today's world, it's so easy to just be absent and just get caught up in your life. So what does legendary fatherhood mean to you and why is it always a pursuit of yours?
• 3:10
  That's such a good question. Well, you're a dad, right? You have one girl, right? I have a 16-year-old daughter who is the love of my life. You're a muscle-bound dude. I guarantee, like, the boyfriends probably come over, like, just shaking, like, oh, please don't hurt me. You know what? Truth be told, she's going to kill me for saying this. She tried to hide them from me. And, you know, I grew up.
• 3:33
  I'm pretty perceptive. When you grow up in a unsafe environment, you notice your surroundings. So I noticed what's going on. And I said, find her. I said to her and I'm like, babe, I know you have boyfriends and I know that you don't want them around me because you're afraid. But, you know, I'm all supportive of it. And so she started bringing them around and he opens the car door for her.
• 3:57
  And he's very kind. I hope it's because he's a good boy. But I have a sneaky suspicion it has a lot to do with my size.
• 4:06
  Yeah, I would not want to face you if I was a 16 year old dude, just picking up your daughter. I'd be like, your dad's terrifying. But yeah, but the reason I, you know, I love the person, I love the question, because you'll appreciate this, I think. So when I actually wrote this book a little bit ago, the story of the writing of the book is kind of interesting, but I actually wrote this book in 2022. I've added more to it ever since then. But I was going through and I was going through a publisher originally for this book.
• 4:36
  And six weeks before my launch date, the publisher went bankrupt. Whoops. Yeah. So like, you know, I, that led me to another publisher, which they wanted to start with ass. The company start with an ass. No, no, no, it doesn't. So the funny thing was the guy who owned it was the CEO. He was not married and no kids.
• 4:57
  So I met him at a speaking event and, and I, during my talk, I was talking about how I was writing this book and I, and then he came up to me. He's like, man, I really loved your talk. He's like, I'm actually a publisher. I'd love to talk to you about publishing your book. I was like, yeah, sure. So we talked about it and he's like, what's the name of the book? I said, the pursuit of legendary fatherhood. He goes, I'm
• 5:13
  the pursuit of legendary fatherhood. He goes, that seems kind of long. Why not just call it legendary fatherhood? And I smiled and I go, you're not a dad, are you? And he goes, I'm not, I'm not even married. I was like, well, okay. That, that, that explains a lot. I was like, because you would know that there's really no such thing. I was like, there's the pursuit of it. You know, there's, there was only one perfect man that walked the earth. And last time I looked, I definitely wasn't him.
• 5:37
  So there's the pursuit of legendary fatherhood. There's the constant growing of, of, of your knowledge of, of the things of the skills of, of constantly refining and polishing and learning, never being stagnant, never being comfortable, always pushing yourself, you know, to, to, to the, to the boundaries, right. Of, of learning and, and doing this thing as best as you possibly can, not taking your foot off the gas. That is the pursuit. He's like, okay, I like that.
• 6:02
  The pursuit of it is this, and I'll start with another quote too, which is, I'll never forget when I first heard this quote, and I think Napoleon Hill was the one who said it, but the definition of hell is being on your deathbed and meeting the man that you could have become. And that's how I start out the book. And I got to tell you, that is what fuels me more than anything, because the thing that I don't want to live with and the thing that I see many men live with is regret, right?
• 6:30
  And, or they, they say, I'll do that thing or I'll connect with my kid when I'm done with this thing. Right. And, or, or marriage or whatever, we put these things on the back burner. And what I can tell you is we never regret the time that we took off work to go on the field trip with our kids. We never regret the Friday that we took off work to go escape and have a day date with our wife, even if it meant making more money. Right. So at the end of my life, what I want to be surrounded with is photos. Yeah.
• 6:59
  photos and memories. And even as I look right now, I have, and my kids always make fun of me, but it is what it is. I have 121,514 photos on this phone and probably 80% of my family. Now you make it be look at my phone.
• 7:17
  I've had this phone forever though. So there's that too. But, but yeah, man, I, I, that, that, that is the pursuit is like constant connection, constant refining of relationships, communication, psychological safety, memories. And by the way, notice I didn't say entitlement, spoiling them or anything like that. That's not what I think legendary fatherhood really is. It's, it's, it's being that guide is being that leader. It's tough love. It's soft love. It's everything in between.
• 7:44
  It's showing them how to be a man, and I love that. I got a quote here from, I think it's from the book. It's, pain is not your prison, it's your platform. I always say pain is not your prison, it's your portal. That's where you lean into to become the person that God meant you to be. So there's so many similarities between you and I. Tell us about your abusive childhood, because...
• 8:09
  That's literally what I say over and over again. I'm the one that broke the cycle of abuse in my family. My daughter, I have overcorrected, Larry. I have one daughter, and she has noticed no hardship. She knows that love is unconditional. She knows that some boys are bad. And I've treated her like an adult from day one. We speak open and honest, but
• 8:37
  You know, I did that because I literally, my parents showed exactly how not to raise somebody. So tell us yours. I feel like if you and I live next to each other, we probably hang out every day. Cause we, I think we speak the same language. We come from the same background, kind of cut from the same cloth. And we want, we want to break this chain. Right. And we're, and I think we're doing it. And I, but, but it's not, it doesn't come without a ton of hard work. And, and I know you're, you're going to be on my podcast. I cannot wait to hear your story.
• 9:06
  But I'll give some context and I'll share the story. And I've shared this story many times. I've been told they're like, God bless, man. That sounds like it'd be on Netflix, right? But I'll share the story out of context. But here's why I share the story in some detail. Because I want all your listeners to know
• 9:22
  No matter what your background is, no matter how bad it was, that does not mean that that determines your future and what's going to happen. And for like probably a long time, I bought into the fact, well, I wasn't raised with a peaceful home, good communication, and I didn't see a good marriage. So that will be my future. Like that will be my life. Like I remember telling myself that. Yes, sir.
• 9:49
  And the wake up call happened where it's like, wait a second, this doesn't have to be in my life. So, you know, like I said, my mom and biological father were married in 1971. They got married really young. I think they were 21. Really fast and furious sort of relationship. Got married really, really quickly. Had me four years later in 1975. About nine months after I was born, my dad and my mom split. They had a really horrific divorce. And I never knew my dad. Never even knew I had a dad. So like, I remember being about five years old. And I talk about this in the book.
• 10:19
  And I remember it was just me and my mom and my friends that I went to school with, they had dads. And I remember dads coming to pick up their kids from school. And some dads wore suits and some dads wore jeans and that kind of thing. Like I knew what a dad was. And in my mind, I was like, well, I think mom's just gotten fine. Dad's like kids magically appear. And sooner or later, mom brings home a dad like, hey, I found the dad. Like that was my, that's what I thought.
• 10:42
  So like, I was just waiting, you know, it was no big deal. Like I didn't think I was missing out on anything. And I'll never forget. It was a, I'll never forget. It was a Friday. I was five years old. My mom was like, Hey, um, just want to let you know, we're going to have somebody over for dinner tonight. It's a friend of mine. He's a very special friend of mine. I've, I've known him for a few months and I work with him. He's a very nice friend and I really want you to meet him. And that was her way of saying, I've been dating someone I work with and it's now time for you to meet him. Right. Uh huh.
• 11:07
  So I'll never forget this, man. Like I'm five. And this guy, like I was like, oh my gosh, like this could be the dad. Like this probably is the dad. And this guy came walking in my house. He's wearing a three piece suit, double Windsor tie. It has a briefcase, the feathered hair, the mustache is 1979. And, uh, isn't it?
• 11:25
  Yeah. Right. There was no iPads or anything like that. Right. And he shakes my hand. And the first thing I say to this guy is I'm looking up at him is like, are you going to be my dad? And like, literally like my mom gasped and he like laughed awkwardly, but six months later, man, that's what happened. They got married and he'd be,
• 11:46
  he was my dad and he adopted me. My last name is his. He's the one I knew as my dad. No clue of this other guy and happy family, right? For about a year. Oh, but then a lot of really bad things like just started to emerge. So like he, he had a really bad drinking problem. My mom drank a lot too. Oh, they, yeah. Right. I'm thinking there's probably some similarities there. It's uncanny. The similarities have five is when my stepfather got, I mean, you just, you know,
• 12:16
  It's getting weird. Really? Now I'm really intrigued. Holy cow. It's really weird. That's wild. So anyway, they just had a horrific four last years of their marriage. Cops were called to my house. He had a heavy hand. He loved to beat up on me. He beat up on my mom. She beat up on him.
• 12:37
  finally when I was 10, he moved out and they got divorced. And I remember being 10 and I was like, man, I'm glad he's gone. But it also was like, this sucks. Like I'm one of my few, like, cause back then divorce wasn't as common as it is now. And your friends, parents stayed together, even if they hated each other. So I think I was the only person in actually in my class that the parents weren't together anymore. And my class was small, but so anyway, I started asking a lot of questions at that point. I'm like, wait a second. This guy came around when I was five, like, what?
• 13:07
  And who, who, like, where did I come from? So I started asking my mom, I was like, where did I come from? And she's like, well, yeah, I was married before and you have another dad out there. And I'm like, what? I had no idea. She's like, I was married for four years. He left when you were about one. And yeah, I don't know where he's at. And I'm like, what's his name? And she like told me his name and had no idea where he was. Two years passed by. I won't get into it just for the sake of detail and all that, but I met him.
• 13:37
  And it wasn't planned. And I was over the freaking moon, Kelly. Like I was just like, this is the coolest thing ever. I met my dad. And when you're 12, like that's like right at this sort of liminal space. I think you're not really a boy. You're not really a man. You're just sort of, and you're, you really want that male figure in your life to help you through that time.
• 13:56
  And my dad shows up and he only lived three miles from us. Had no idea. And he was remarried at the time. He had a two-year-old son, another one on the way. And I was over the moon and I hung out with him every week. And he came to my little league games. I spent time with him and his wife and spent time at his house and spent the night. It was great, man. I was like, this is awesome. I immediately started calling him dad right out of the gate.
• 14:19
  And then it was about five months into our relationship. And I just started noticing like there was just some weirdness going on, like just some heaviness. Like he seemed stressed out a little distant. And I'll never forget being 12. And I called this guy one time. I was just like, hey, like, is everything okay? Like, I feel like something's not right. And that's when he kind of like, I don't remember the words. I just remember the result. And the result was I'm out. And that was it. He was gone again. You're killing me right now.
• 14:47
  Is this similar to yours? It's much as the abandonment is just, you know, as much as work as I've done on myself,
• 14:57
  I feel for that little boy because I bend him and my abandonment, you know, it's, it's, it's ironic. It's, this is how relationships get on that life's hamster wheel. It's, you know, you want that craving, even the bad craving, the badness, the negative, somebody being there is better than nobody at that age. And it's what we keep going on doing. Um,
• 15:19
  When we're older and adults. So I'm looking forward to fast forward. But no, you're talking on my heart. Mine were just, they were just, at times that I needed somebody, they just weren't there. So the abandonment would happen over and over and over. And then times that I need something, I'd get a freaking backhand or a punch right in the face or anything.
• 15:40
  It was tough, man. But as much as I've healed, I'm feeling all this, bro. So I know people that are listening to this because I coach a lot of people and I talk to a lot of people and they think they're alone. You're hearing two dudes.
• 15:56
  That had the same thing happen. I just was talking to a gentleman I was trying to coach. He just wasn't ready. He's like, oh, I know I do all this because of my abusive father. But, okay, well, you know we got to do something about it. So if you're listening to this, guys, we're going to give you the blueprint. But we're just setting the background. Yeah, man. Crazy. We're kind of cut from the same cloth like that. My heart's bumping out of my chest right now. Just so you know, it's wild how when you heal, it's still there. Oh, man.
• 16:24
  But you know what happened to him? That was it. And so I remember that time I was like, I was in seventh grade going into eighth grade and I got to be honest, man. I just sort of like, I don't, I put a really, really bad taste in my mouth as a kid. I didn't really understand it then, but all I knew is I was just like, I kind of was like, screw everything.
• 16:41
  And I started to eat really bad and I gained a lot of weight and I failed the eighth grade. I had to do eighth grade twice and that was humiliating. And then, um, ended up getting into actually a pretty good high school. I got into an all boys prep college prep high school the second time around. And then I went on to college and my mom got married a total of three times by the time I was 18 and she was like, oh, my God.
• 17:04
  dated several dudes in between. Every guy was the same guy, just different name and different face, but alcoholic, abuser, toxicity, horrible experience. And I think it was right around 18 and my mom got remarried again. I was like, yeah, I'm done with dads. Like, screw all of you. Like, I think that was like my attitude. I'm like, I'm done with this. After I went away to college, I never came back home again. Moved out, married my college sweetheart. Here's where the story really takes a turn, man.
• 17:31
  2005, I'm 30 years old. I've been married for two years. I'm in a Starbucks here in St. Louis. And I'm just having a morning meeting with the people that I work with. We had a Monday morning team meeting every Monday. And who came walking in for his morning coffee? My dad.
• 17:49
  the one I hadn't seen since I was 12, my biological one. And I immediately saw him and I was like, Holy crap. I know who that is. And one of the women on my team, I was also friends with her. So she kind of knew this story and she saw this look on my face and she's like, are you all right? You look like you just seen a ghost. I was like, I was like, yeah, I was like, my dad just walked in here. And she's like,
• 18:12
  what? And I was like, my, my dad just walked in here and she's like the one you haven't seen since you were 12. And I was like, yep. She goes, where is he? I was like right over there. It was like 25 feet away. And she's like, Oh my God, what are you going to do? What are you going to say? And I was like, uh, yeah, nothing. I'm not going to say anything. She's like, wait, wait,
• 18:33
  you're not going to say anything to him. Like, you're not going to say anything to him. I was like, why would I like the guy blew me off twice. Like, you think I want to be around that dude? Like, no. Well, she didn't say another word. She just got up and sat at his table with him. And I'm like, wow. Yeah. And I was like, what is about to happen? And then all of a sudden he like got up, walked over to where I was sitting with her and he was like, and basically what she told him was like, Hey, I just want to let you know something you don't know me, but yeah,
• 19:02
  your son is in here and you should really get to know him. Like you really should. And he, his first response was, where is he? So he came over, we talked, uh, I wasn't nice, but I wasn't mean. I was kind of like indifferent. And, uh, he handed me over his business card. He's like, you know, call me sometime, you know, we should have breakfast or something. And I slid the card back to him and I gave him mine. I said, we've tried this before.
• 19:30
  You can call me if you want. And if you don't want to, that's okay. I was kind of like giving him an out because I was like, he's not going to call. I make him sound like a bum. He's not. He's actually a very successful entrepreneur. Still married to the same woman. Has been for 46 years. Two sons, you know. But here we are 20 years later. And I've had a relationship with him for the past 20 years. And it's been fantastic.
• 19:53
  kind of weird and also remarkable at the same time. But you know, dad edge got started because I was a dad for six years. So fast forward just six more years. I had a really bad moment with my son who was four at the time. My second son, my second born stepped out of line as any kid would. And I spanked him and I made a promise to myself that I'd never hit my kids. Cause I was hit a lot growing up and I spanked him. And unfortunately what had happened, Kelly, after that, as I spanked
• 20:23
  and i was like and i immediately was like oh my god what did i just do and i went to go pick him up and he rolled over on his back to get up and he saw me like coming at him like i'm like oh my god are you all right and he thought i was gonna hurt him and he literally just closed his eyes don't hurt me i think i've told this story a thousand times man and
• 20:48
  It always freaking gets to me, man. My kid is 17 now and he's the starting center on his football team. He's tough as nails. And all I can see sometimes is that four-year-old just don't hurt me. And that was it. First and last time I ever hit my kids. And that was it. That was the night I started doing what I've been doing for the past year.
• 21:09
  you know, 13 years. And, um, I don't foresee myself stopping because I don't want that to ever happen to me again. I don't want that ever happening to another man again, but yeah, that's how, unfortunately my, my platform didn't get started with some beautiful epiphany. It got started with some pretty bad darkness. What you don't repair repeats. Um,
• 21:33
  You know, you answered a bunch of my questions already. I can't help but, you know, I'm over here. My heart's just beating out of my chest because it's triggering me, even though I've healed. But it's...
• 21:44
  You know, I've never touched my daughter, ever. Never, ever, ever. Never, ever. As a matter of fact, she's always said, Dad, I always feel the safest when I'm with you. I've made sure that. And realistically, the reason why I'm such a big guy is because of the beatings that my stepfather used to give me. And this was my protection. This was my armor. This was the mask that I put on.
• 22:06
  And I remember to this day, he would spot me. And one day he couldn't lift the weight that I was lifting. Like he couldn't even spot me. And that was the day that the beating stopped. And I in fact called him out one day when he was trying to be verbally abusive. That little boy took back all the power. And here I am 40 years later, 35 years later, just can't stop. It's what gives me my protection.
• 22:36
  And, you know, I've done all the work where I know his father beat him. And where you give him the bad, you got to give him the good, man. He taught me a lot of things about being a man. But the abandonment, man, did I go through some relationships one after another after another.
• 22:55
  Let me ask some questions about that specifically Did he ever tell you why he bolted when you were 12 First of all, I would assume the reason why he bolted the first time was just mom The second time was because why?
• 23:09
  Yes. I actually have a funny story about that. Um, so I don't know if anything's funny, Larry, I'm not gonna laugh. Well, I gotta laugh about, um, I think it was about six or seven months after like we had reunited. Like, so I was like, you know, within that first year, I was probably like between 30 and 31. Like we had just started hanging out again, but it was, we'd gotten to a place where we were comfortable, I think, or at least I was enough. And I invited him out to dinner one night and my dad's no fool. I mean, like he, he knew, um,
• 23:40
  He knew. And the funny thing was, so I took him out to dinner. And we're sitting there at dinner. And we're, like, just shooting the breeze for, like, you know, 30, 40 minutes. And he looks at me and he goes, so why are we really here?
• 23:54
  What do you want to know? And I was like, wow. And I looked at him and I remember saying something along the lines of like, I just, I want to be respectful, but I also, there's a lot of emotion here a little bit. So just permission to speak very directly. And he's like, yeah, go for it. I go, okay. I was like, I do want to have a conversation.
• 24:16
  And I just want to have it once. That's it. We don't have to ever talk about this again, but I want to have it once. And he's like, you got it. What is it? And I go, okay, well, here, here's the first question. Can you please tell me what the hell happened when I was a baby? And the bigger question is what the hell happened when I was 12? You didn't leave once, but you
• 24:41
  Yeah. Yeah. Worst two choices I ever made my entire life. He's like, here's the thing, Kelly, like a lot of people have asked me, how can you forgive your dad? Like the dude like walked twice. You have to, for you. That's the answer, right? That, that is the answer. But you've been there, done that. Yeah. That's the moment you take all your power back.
• 25:12
  You forgive yourself for not knowing any better and them because you need to move on. And I remember the moment I did that, man, it felt like a thousand pounds lifted off my chest. A hundred percent. I totally agree. You got to do it for yourself. But I think that there's actually somebody who has to carry a bigger burden in my situation, and that's actually him. And I'll explain what that looks like. So I asked, and he was just...
• 25:40
  Full on honest. He was just like, I have nothing to stand on. Horrible two decisions. I have nothing to say other than I'm sorry. And if I had it to do over again, I would have done it much different. He goes, but here's what was going on when you were a baby. And this is no excuse. He's like, you don't remember this because you were little. He's like, but I was 25 years old when you were born. He's like, so I was a young dude. Not, I didn't know anything.
• 26:09
  He's like, all I knew is when me and your mom got divorced, that was horrible. He's like, but number two, I'd come to pick you up, like to hang out with you on the weekends. And you wanted nothing to do with me. You wanted your mom. And rightfully so. You're like one, two years old. You don't understand why you're being taken away from your mom. And I'm like some person taking you. You did not like, it was pretty obvious. Like I felt like every time I took you, I was doing more harm than good.
• 26:33
  He's like, so I thought to myself, he's like, and I still talk to your mom. He goes, but I actually, when I signed over parental rights, when you were five to, to, to your dad, I actually thought I was doing one of the most selfless things that I could possibly do because it killed me to do that.
• 26:50
  He goes, but I literally thought I was giving you a better life, not a worse one. Otherwise I wouldn't have done it. I would have like come to your house, scooped you up and fought for custody. If I would have known he's like, and then at 12, what happened was, is we were pregnant with your youngest brother and me and your mom were having words behind the curtain, you know, cause she wanted things a certain way. And it was really intrusive and it was really stressful and it was kind of,
• 27:17
  infiltrating my family a little bit. And he's like, it was just really, really hard. He's like, and I felt like I had to make a decision. Like I was so torn. He's like, I was either going to lose my family, my current family, I felt like, or I was going to lose you again. He's like, and I had to, I made a decision. I had, and it was horrible, but here's the, and he's like, and I'm sorry. He's like, it was horrible. Like, I mean, the guy like literally just fell on the sword.
• 27:43
  And there was nothing I could say. I mean, what do you say to somebody who admits everything and is insanely sorry about it? Like, other than like, okay, I forgive you. But here's the real truth. I feel sorry for my dad. Still to this day, he's a great guy. Has, doesn't, I don't really think he's got, he's 75 years old, still in great health. Very successful, doesn't have a financial worry. You know, he's great family.
• 28:08
  but my dad, Kelly, my dad has to carry, has had to carry everything that we just talked about for 50 years. And he will have to carry that until he passes. And there's a part of him, I think, that he's so angry with himself. He's probably so ashamed of himself. It's hard for him to still even talk about it to this day. And I think, did I lose? Sure, I lost. But my dad, my dad is the one who's had to carry that one for his 50 years.
• 28:38
  all i ever wanted was somebody to choose me yeah i totally get that let's turn it around and help people out yeah and uh how did you uh what what were the modality to forgive your father number one and then number two was how did you forgive yourself for spanking your son
• 29:01
  So, I mean, I've been on this journey with, I would say, family, fatherhood, men's work, you know, for 13 years. And it's been a, you know, 1400 podcasts over 10 years. And I'll tell you, just learning as much as I possibly can. And here's what I'll tell you that I think that was really revealing to me. I remember that night that I spanked my son and I remember how horrible I felt. And this is where I think we help people, by the way.
• 29:30
  So I went into my office that night after it happened and I was emotional. I was, I was crying and I was in front of my computer and I was on Facebook because that's what you do as an adult. When you have a really bad moment, you forget about your own life. Cause you go look at everybody else's life like an idiot. Right. Oh, but something, something really happened. Something really interesting happened that night. I saw this button in the left-hand corner of Facebook and it said, create a page. And I don't know what it is that was in me, but I just hit that button.
• 29:59
  And this thing popped up and said, what do you want to name your page? And I said, the good dad project. That was the, that's still the name of my organization to this day legally, but we do business as the dad edge, but literally the good dad project. And I was the project like me. And I thought to myself, I started looking at certain things in my life. I was in medical device sales and I was pretty good at it.
• 30:20
  I was also in pretty good shape, right? But I also have a four-year degree in sports med and a minor in nutrition, right? At the time I was doing martial arts and I was pretty decent at that. I point out those three things because they all have one big thing in common. And that is I had to learn them.
• 30:37
  You know, there are skills that goes with sales and being able to sell a surgical device. You have to be trained to do that. You have to be trained in martial arts. You need an instructor. You need a community. You need people to spar with. You need to have decent grades to graduate with a four-year degree, right? So all of these things we had to acquire.
• 30:56
  But here's where I think society really gets it wrong is that when you become a husband and a father in no other area that I know of, they're like, oh yeah, go figure it out. Best time of your whole life. Like we don't, we don't do that. Like we don't even do that with a driver's license. We don't put a 16 year old behind the wheel of a car and say, go figure it out. Go drive. Yeah.
• 31:17
  We teach them. And that's what I've learned over the past 13 years is everything that's in the book, everything that we teach, everything we coach to, they're acquired skills, which the good news is anybody can be a generational pattern breaker if they want to learn. They don't have to point back to their childhood and be like, see, I'm going to
• 31:36
  I'm doomed. You're not doomed. You can learn. We can learn. We can do anything we want. And that's what I want to first tell people is if your perspective is my past is going to dictate my future. Nope. It doesn't have to. You can be, and you know, people like this, you can be 350 pounds overweight your entire life and then make it one decision one day and be like, not today, not anymore.
• 31:59
  lose 200 pounds or 150 pounds, you're down to 200 pounds and you're in the best shape ever because you've learned the acquired skills to go live that life and do that thing. And fatherhood, marriage, no different. I did EMDR therapy and really specifically I did hypnotherapy. And during the one hypnotherapy session, I had a conversation with my stepfather and I asked him, you know, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how
• 32:25
  hypothetical conversation and I was in a room and Big Kelly was with Little Kelly and my mother and myself and I asked why did you continue to beat me and then I just went through and forgave him and that like again was another way so what specific
• 32:45
  Did you do anything? Maybe you did nothing. Maybe you just said, I'm making a decision. Did you do something in therapy or, or through the, you said through 1400 podcasts, but did you do one specific thing to really lighten the load to forgive your father?
• 33:01
  If we're talking about forgiveness, it was literally just making the decision to forgive. And here's what it looks like. And maybe it'll even, I could share this from a perspective of my 17 year old, the same one I spanked. This was a few years ago, we were getting ready to go over to my dad's house for Christmas.
• 33:17
  And my, my, my kids get along with my dad and my step-mom fine. They love him just fine. It's great. My 17 year old, the one that I spanked, he's very, very observant and he, he sees kind of and hears everything, but he just sort of takes it in and talks about it when he wants to. And there was, and he doesn't say anything unless he really like needs to say it or wants to say it. So we're getting ready to leave. This was a few years ago. We're getting ready to leave to go to my dad's house for Christmas. And my, and my son looks at me and he goes, okay.
• 33:44
  do you like going to your dad's for holidays? And he doesn't, he doesn't ask a question like that unless something is really boiling in his mind. And I'm like, well, why, why do you ask that? And I was like, what's on your mind? And he goes, I don't know. He goes, I like them and everything. He goes, but if I'm you, you,
• 34:05
  And you did that to me. I'd never forgive you. Never. I would never talk to you. In fact, if I saw you out, I'd probably hit you. I'd probably punch you. And I looked at him and I go, yeah. And I go, totally understandable. And trust me when I say I went through those feelings big time where I want to like just lay my dad out if I saw him out somewhere.
• 34:28
  And I was like, but let me ask you one question. How does it feel when you talk about it like that? What feeling comes up here? He's like, anger. I was like, yeah. I was like, how does it feel to feel that anger? He goes, it feels heavy. I was like, yeah. And he goes, and by the way, did any, have I ever abandoned you? He's like, no. And I was like, but you know the feeling of anger and heaviness.
• 34:48
  I was like, what if you take that feeling of anger and heaviness into your relationship with your girlfriend? He's like, well, probably wouldn't be good. And I was like, yeah, it wouldn't be good. I was like, so it's forgiveness for you or is it for both of us or for me? Or what do you think it's for? He's like, well, it'd be for you. I was like, but what if you're the one harboring anger and all that? Like, what if you forgave and then you didn't feel that feeling anymore? Would it be more freeing for you?
• 35:17
  And then you saw him kind of get it. He's like,
• 35:20
  Yeah, I guess it would. I was like, well, there you go. That's what it is. I was like, Mason, it's not easy for me to forget my dad. Like there's a part of me that still actually wants to be angry with him. Like there's a part of me that even asking myself like, God, shouldn't I still be angry? Shouldn't I hold something against you? I was like, but that doesn't hurt anybody but me. I was like, not to mention the fact my dad's 75 years old. He's still in great health. I don't know how much time he has though. Do I want to waste time being pissed off?
• 35:47
  No, I don't. I was like, so believe it or not, sounds selfish, but the forgiveness is more for me than it is for him. And forgiveness is more for you than it is the other people that you don't, you decide to forgive. And I think he kind of got that. Why do most men hide their struggles instead of facing them head on?
• 36:05
  We were just trying to protect the ego, you know? I mean, like, I mean, dude, I've been doing this work forever and I don't know if you fall into the same dumb patterns that I do, but like, even to this day, like if I'm going through something and my wife is like, Hey, are you okay? Yep. I'm fine. It's like, cause I don't, I don't want her to see it. My kids like, dude, dad, you okay? Yep. Good. You don't seem okay. Nope. I'm fine.
• 36:27
  And it's a push off of like, I don't want you to see me carrying something, struggling, stressed out, overwhelmed. I got it. I can handle it. I think a lot of it just boils down to ego. That's such a good answer. You know, I, I've been working on that recently and sharing with my daughter that when I'm down, it doesn't happen. And when I'm down, it's a.
• 36:49
  These are dumb problems that I have because I don't really have problems. I really don't. But you still feel down. And I share it with my daughter. Honey, I'm really struggling right now. But that was – it's still foreign. It's still weird because I'm supposed to be the rock and nothing – that's the old way. Gentlemen who listen to my show, I'm telling you. You'll bring yourself closer to whoever if you just say, I'm not – I'm really struggling today.
• 37:17
  And if the person is for you, which obviously would be somebody you would say this to, they will pick you up. And for people like Larry and myself, we,
• 37:29
  There was nobody there for us. So it was very hard to admit that. Matter of fact, when I was a kid, the little bit that my mom was around, if I was sick, she'd be like, go in your room. She didn't care. My biological father was a druggie and alcoholic, and he would disappear for years on end. I just felt like I didn't matter. I was meant to be invisible. So that's...
• 37:59
  it's hard to be vulnerable because that looked like it was a weakness and for me it looked like nobody would care. But I've been working on that and I would implore everybody. I say it to my staff at my IT company. I say, guys, I don't have it today, I need your help. And it's hard to say, but I do. And I lean into hard. I said it was pain is your portal, it's your pathway. If it hurts,
• 38:28
  Go that way, man. Easier said than done, man. Talk to us about this family score and why should every man be brave enough to take it? That's what we're talking about here, being brave. Because courageous to make a mistake and to be vulnerable and to be open and realize that I don't have all the answers, but I'm going to be in this fight. So talk to me about the family score.
• 38:49
  First of all, I just want to say, man, thank you for sharing what you did. The thing that really comes up for me when you talk about like when you lean into your staff, you know, you're like, hey, like today is hard, you know, or you lean into your daughter and like I'm struggling today. The beautiful thing about that is people look at you like you're a human being.
• 39:08
  You know, if you, if you really think of the standard that guys like me and you are pretty much every guy, probably we hold ourselves to. It's like, yeah, you just described a cyborg is what you just described. You didn't describe a human being. You described a cyborg, somebody who can just take on everything and just be as solid as a rock. Right. But people don't want a cyborg.
• 39:31
  They want a strong, dependable, trustworthy, safe human being that has emotions. Good and, you know, I would say positive and rough days, right? I always try to not say emotions are bad because they're neither good nor bad. They just are.
• 39:47
  But I love the fact that you point that out. But the family score, you know, everybody in my family, we take our turns, you know, helping each other. So, like, there are days my 19-year-old, he's the one who looks at us and is like, guys, today I'm struggling. You know, or there are days my wife is like, today's a rough day, guys. I need everybody to pitch in. I'm hurting today. There are days that I do it.
• 40:10
  Right. But the cool thing is, is that we're, we call ourselves team Hagner or team Hagner. Everybody's got a, everybody's got a position on this team. Right. And we all help each other. One man goes down, we all help. So when somebody is going through a bad time, the other members of that, of the team rally, right. To help. But, and, and one of our biggest things to do on the team is when you're struggling, let us know, ask for help.
• 40:37
  And dude, I will tell you, I've made those rules. And I'm also the toughest to enforce them on myself. Because as a dude, I'm like, I don't really want to tell the family I'm struggling today. Maybe I won't. Right. But yeah, we have to. Well, leaders go first, Larry. Leaders go first and they lead and they make it safe because other people are struggling. Other people are scared and other people are uncertain. So yeah.
• 41:05
  then it builds vulnerability and really you're just going first. So I didn't say as easy. I didn't say I'm good at it. I just say, I do it and I do it, you know, and, and here's where it's tough is harder than life started off being, I'm the tough guy. I am harder than life, but really what harder than life really is, is, is being soft, being happy, being able to receive. So the biggest part is receiving the support once they give it,
• 41:35
  Like, oh, I don't need your help. I'm good.
• 41:37
  You know, that was a thing that I did for many, many years during my healing journey. Like even if somebody did offer, I would, I don't need it. I'm good. I just needed to vent for a second. But no, let them and feel that love. And I, I, I picture it's a little, I'm giving you guys, I'm sprinkling in my tricks that I do. Larry's probably got 10,000 more, but I picture little, little Kelly at that point, the one when it was five years old, getting beat or wishes his, his biological father would come pick them up. And I say, look.
• 42:08
  here's the support you were looking for. And I get it from my girlfriend or my daughter or my staff. But for many years, guys, I rejected that and those were the relationships that were toxic.
• 42:23
  and they weren't really safe to do that. So do the work on yourself, man. Work works. This stuff, the harder you work on yourself, the more you love yourself, the more you trust yourself, the more you could have those difficult conversations, the better father, the better leader, the better business demand, the better community, better everything you'll be. I was gonna ask about what the cost of not doing the work, but we kind of talked about it. What's one skill every dad must master with no excuses?
• 42:53
  I'll give you two because I think that there's two. So one is emotional validation. Let me, let me share why. So guys, the, the, the women in your lives, the wives, the girlfriends, and you know, what do they need? They have three needs from you seen, heard, safe, seen, heard, and safe. And by the way, us, us guys, our three needs are to be respected, appreciated, validation, or physical affection.
• 43:18
  But let's talk about the seen, heard, and safe thing. Like, so for instance, your wife, right? Or someone comes to you with something that's going on in their life, whether they're venting, whether it's positive, negative, or whatever. Usually what we want to do as men is we want to give advice. We want to give strategy. We want to, yeah, fix it, right? Let's not say we do that all the time.
• 43:37
  But we actually can be way more effective because that's what we really want. We want to like, well, I want to help this person. I want to fix it. I want to make it better. I want to take their pain away. Right. And we do that because we love them. Right. It literally comes from this place of like, I just love you so much. I don't want to see you in pain. So here, let me help you take it away.
• 43:58
  The other reason we do that as men is because men don't like really big, we, we, we tend to get standoffish with big emotions because we don't know exactly how to manage them. So it's like someone who's coming at us with like a really big emotion. Usually what we want to do is we want to fix it quickly because it's like a really big emotion coming our way and we kind of don't know what to do with it or how to manage it. Right. Or we sort of absorb it, which is uncomfortable. We're the ones that are uncomfortable. Exactly.
• 44:21
  what do you do? You just simply label what it is you think the other person's feeling. That's, that's validation. So like, if my wife comes to me and she talks about like how the kids are driving her nuts or like, she's got drama with her friend group or something, you know, we just got a nasty medical bill in the mail or something like that. Instead of like giving her all the advice in the world of what she should do, I'll be like, man, that sounds really frustrating. Tell me more about that. And the more she talks,
• 44:48
  And the more I validate, like when I validate, you basically say the emotion that you think the other person is feeling. That sounds really so simple, so simple, but not easy.
• 44:58
  But when you say that, so think about those three needs. When they're talking and you're like, my gosh, that sounds really frustrating. So tell me more about that. When you do that, you're like, oh my gosh, he heard everything I just said. He knows what I'm feeling. So I feel really seen right now. He knows I'm frustrated, which if you knock down, heard, and seen, safe falls like a domino. A breadcrumb of her safety is she will keep talking.
• 45:28
  And that's what you want. And this is, by the way, here's the easy button for all dads out there. Your kids, boy or girl, doesn't matter. Age, doesn't matter. Seen, heard, safe. So the same skills and the same rules apply to your kids. And it doesn't matter if they're a boy or a girl.
• 45:44
  My 19 year old son still needs to feel seen, heard and safe. So validating what he's feeling is super powerful and important. And by the way, here's the other thing too. It requires way less brain power and way less work and anybody can do it. So validation is one. The second one is creating an environment of psychological safety.
• 46:05
  Hold on one second. I want to acknowledge that. We're talking about being a father, but this is ubiquitous to being a leader and just being in a relationship. This applies to all three, just so you know. You have to be a partner first to have children
• 46:23
  and it helps to be a good leader, you have to lead yourself. Listening, God gave you two ears and one mouth and two eyes for a reason, two of the things that are most important and one of the things that are least important. So I just wanted to add that little caveat there that even if you're not a father,
• 46:44
  and you're thinking about becoming one, or if female listening to this, forward it to the men in your life, even if they're young men. Some of these 15 to 25-year-olds that I'm talking to, they have no clue what it's like.
• 46:58
  They don't. That's what I think is so cool about it. Cause when you and I were younger, there was like, there wasn't information on the ready like this for people. They could just dive in and be like, Oh, okay, cool. I got that. Oh, YouTube. Yep. You're right. Yeah. But the other one is creating an environment of psychological safety. And that's more of an academic term. Basically. What is that? What does psychological safety mean? Psychological safety means I can tell you anything right. Without fear of judgment, blame, pain, or shame.
• 47:26
  So what does that look like? Right. And by the way, it's also not consequence free. So psychological safety is when you have created an environment where people around you just gush and they tell you everything. They probably walk away from conversations like, oh my God, I can't believe I told them all that.
• 47:43
  Like, well, you know, that, that's psychological safety. And by the way, if you're ever wondering what it feels like to be in that environment where someone else has created it, it's actually when you say, man, I, I, I don't know what it is about this, but I, I just feel like I can tell you anything. I hope I'm not talking too much. The other person has done a really good job of creating an environment of psychological safety where no matter what you say, you don't feel judged. You don't feel shame. You don't feel blame or pain.
• 48:07
  And the question becomes, how do you do that? It's kind of like working out, right? Like, dude, I've seen your abs. I guarantee you did not do one workout for those abs, right? Oh no, no, no, no. Just take steroids, bro. I've seen the comments in your videos. Apparently you just eat them and abs pop out. I didn't know that. I'm doing all this work. I'm in the middle of doing 500 workouts this year. I did number 415 this morning. And it's like, oh, that's all I had to do is take steroids, I'm an idiot.
• 48:36
  He didn't have to do any setups for those. That's kind of, but no, it's, um, it's, it's like the, you know, it's like, it's like abs, you know? So it's like, well, how, how do you do it? And it really looks like this. So I like to do, I like to give men daily things, not like, oh, just go do this one workout and it'll work because the daily is where the magic happens. So I always like to tell guys, if you want to really learn validation and you want to create environments of psychological safety, and you want your kids to tell you absolutely everything,
• 49:02
  everything that's going on in their life, even the darkest, craziest thing. And they walk away from a conversation like, holy crap, I can't believe I just told my dad that. This is what you do. So you ask them three questions every day, every day. And by the way, by doing this, you not only learn validation, you not only create psychological safety, you not only become your kids 3am call when they're older, you get to have a lot of fun with it. And you become the most interesting dad on the block. And here's how it works.
• 49:28
  So when your kid comes home from school or you pick them up or whatever, Kelly, what do you think is the number one question that people ask their kids? I was school. I was school. What kind of answer do we get? Fine. Fine. Oh, by the way, I'm not, I don't allow one word answers and we don't, we've, we've worked on that from very young. There's one word answers are not allowed. I love that. You know, it's so funny. It's my 17 year old. He's, he's so like, he'll be like, it was really good.
• 49:56
  Give me two. Like he just has that. That's what they better be tough because we're going to start wrestling. That's right. That's right. But here's, here's what you ask your kid, ask your kid. This was the best part of your day. What was the best part of your day? Right? So you can ask that 10 different ways, but basically what I want is tell me a highlight. Tell me something that was interesting. Tell me something unique or whatever else or unexpected. It doesn't matter. But basically what your kid will do is they'll do this.
• 50:23
  So this happened. And then they'll be like, and if you're my nine-year-old dad, or he actually did this. He's like, dad, we had the fitness test today. This was yesterday. I did 30 pushups. I did the most pushups of anyone in the fourth grade. Oh my gosh, dude. I'm like,
• 50:45
  You must feel amazing right now. Validation, right? Here's one really cool thing about a positive emotion. When you validate someone's positive emotion, their connection to you and how they actually feel about it actually doubles. It goes through the roof. So the fact that you're excited about it and they feel amazing about it and you called it out.
• 51:09
  Well, this is now a conversation that they just love to have. And you've just become the most interesting dad in the world. Like the ones that the kids are bragging about with their friends. And they're like, and they're like, dude, are you serious? Like, Oh my God, you must feel amazing. You're like, tell me how to happen. What happened? What happened?
• 51:23
  And then they're telling you this happened and then this happened. And like, then I got up and the PE teacher, like high five me. And this was amazing. I'm like, holy crap. Well, high five me. Boom. Right. Suddenly it's this great conversation, right? That's question. Number one, question. Number two, it's like, I like that for guys. What was the best part of your day? What was the best part of your day? Yeah. Now here's the second question. This one's tougher. What'd you fail at today?
• 51:47
  What did you fail or what challenged you today? What was something that happened to you that was really hard today and how'd you get through it? Right? It's like your brain, right? And here's what you'll, this is where psychological safety really comes into play. And I'm going to teach it to you. So your kid might be like, and this has happened many times, be like,
• 52:09
  Yeah. And then you'd be like, all right, something's there. All right, come on, man. Out with it. What is it? I'd be like, Dan, you remember that science test that I was studying for? Yep. I got it back today. What'd you get? I got a D. Ooh.
• 52:26
  Oh man, that dude, that took some courage to tell me that, didn't it? Right. So first step is praise them for their courage, whether you think it's horrific or not praise them for telling you because you want that repeated. Right. So like, dude, that must've been hard for you to tell me, like, thank you for telling me that good on you. That took a lot of courage. What happened? So like, why do you think that happened? And they'll be like, well, I don't know. I'd be like, okay, well,
• 52:54
  Let me ask you this. If you were to do this all over again, get ready for this test, what would you do different? And then you start to see them put the pieces together. They're like, well, I studied on Monday and Tuesday. I probably should have studied Wednesday and Thursday. I studied chapters one through three. The chapters went up to five. I didn't really study four and five. I probably would have studied those. I would have studied two more days. I even would have got up maybe even earlier on the actual day of the test and just reviewed a couple of things. That's probably what I would have done.
• 53:22
  I'd be like, do that. Okay, well, when's your next test? Like, I actually got another one on Friday. Well, it sounds like you've got a great plan for what it means to be successful at taking the next test, yeah? And they're like, well, yeah, yeah, I do. Well, great.
• 53:39
  what's in your way of doing that? And they're like, really nothing. Well, great. Well, how can I support you? Well, maybe check in with me. Is that the third question or no? No, no. That was just getting to psychological safety. Basically congratulate them on being like, dude, it sounds like you've got a plan.
• 53:54
  Right. And it sounds like as long as you ask, you execute this plan, like you're good. And this is where we don't have to lecture anymore. This is where it actually takes less brainpower. If you ask questions, right. Really good questions that lead them to their own conclusion and their own solution. You don't have to lecture. They're not going to tune you out. You're actually raising a critical thinker and you're raising a kid. That's like, Oh, you're the guy I go to for this.
• 54:18
  You're the guy I go to when I don't know what to do. You're the guy I go to when I get a D on the science test. You're the guy that I call when I've had too much to drink and I'm underage. I'm at a party and it's 3 a.m. That's the guy I call, right? The cool thing is, is when your kid does that plan, they take the test and they get a B or an A or whatever.
• 54:35
  And they come home and you're like, and they're like, guess what? And you're like, I have a feeling you're going to tell me something, but what is it? And then they're like, and they're like, dude, see you did your thing, man. You like, you did it. You came up with the plan. You executed your plan. You did it. Congratulations.
• 54:52
  And they'll be like, thank you so much for talking about it. I didn't do anything, man. All I do is ask you a few questions. That's it. You did it. So that's question number two. The third one is I call this one, the Netflix hook, the Netflix hook. And here's why do you watch Yellowstone? I know. Okay. Do you have a show that you are just like, man, this, this shows my jam. Tulsa King. Okay. Okay. There you go. We are cut from the same cloth. What do they do at the end of every episode?
• 55:17
  They tease it and leave you ready for the next one. They leave you wanting that next one. They do. In fact, you're sitting there and you're like, well, let's watch the first five minutes to the next episode. And then you're there for the next five episodes. But basically, the next question is, what are you most excited about tomorrow? Or what are you most excited about this week?
• 55:37
  Because what you want is to continue the conversation to show the kid that you're interested, right? An interested dad is the most interesting dad. So if your kid says, well, I got track tryouts tomorrow. Oh my gosh, you do. Okay, great. So when your kid comes home from school, what do you ask? Right? It's like, dude, track tryouts, man. Yeah.
• 56:02
  How'd they go? Come on. Right. And suddenly they're like, God bless. My dad is like, so in tune with what's going on. He's easy to talk to. He's the guy I go to when things go bad. He's the guy I go to when things go well. And it's three questions. That's it. Beautiful. This is so good. I'm going to get a couple more questions. So we're going to, it's an hour show, but I got a lot more stuff to ask and we'll have you back again. I have here in my notes that the spirit of fatherhood, that's a new book that came out, right?
• 56:29
  No, Spirit of Fatherhood came out last year. This is the book that just came out this week, which is Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood. I love the pursuit part because it's the inalienable rights and the Bill of Rights. We have the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I do a talk that it's the pursuit of all three.
• 56:51
  because we're pursuing life, living. Because a lot of us go through, we're talking about some of our fathers probably never lived until later on in their life, so they needed to pursue life. And then the pursuit of liberty,
• 57:07
  freedom, free in your mind, and then the pursuit of happiness. I think the pursuit is what we would call the journey. So I love that. I can talk about this. I'm sitting here triggered and loving every freaking minute of this, but I'm going to get one or two more questions. Then we're going to do a rapid fire and then we'll have you back on again.
• 57:26
  It wouldn't surprise you that I was pulling up a text that I was gonna show it to you from my girlfriend from last night that she said, literally, you create such a safe place for me to say things. So guys, I've made every mistake. Everything that he's saying, if you're listening to this thinking, whoa, this is woo-woo stuff, this is weird. No, no, no, no, no. I've done the work. I do that. The very first question that we have asked
• 57:47
  at our sit down dinner with my daughter every single day. We have breakfast sit down and dinner at sit down. The very first question we have the best part of your day. Surprise you, haven't even read your book yet. And best part of your day, what's something that made you smile today?
• 58:05
  And then what's something that upsets you? And it creates dialogue. And then no matter what she says, I just listen. She could have got a D, which is a man as a winner. I want to say what? And nope.
• 58:20
  And I just and she tells me everything. Now, you don't have a girl, so you don't realize that you have to worry. So when you have a boy, you worry about one penis. You worry about and if you have a girl, you worry about them all. So I have to worry about them all. So I tease and I create safe space to talk about sex.
• 58:36
  I talk about boys. We talk about even better. She tells me, we talk about drinking and drugs. And I will tell you, I came from a drinking and drug family. So I don't drink or do drugs. And I make it cool for my daughter not to. So if you don't want them. And then I said to her, I said, hey, when you're ready to experiment, do it with me.
• 59:01
  because I'm here for you and I'll be safe and we'll make sure that you're okay. You know what I did? I took the cool out of it. I took the cool about it being a no, no. So just a couple of things with his, what Larry is saying is 100% sure because I use it. I'm going to look at one more question. I want to, you've interviewed over 1400 guests. What's the common thread that you see in the best fathers?
• 59:24
  they put their marriage first. It sounds kind of crazy, but they, they, um, they prioritize their, their marriage. And what I mean by that is, um, and I'm not saying that single dads or that's a ding on them, but I think that there are some pretty profound lessons that kids pick up from watching parents prioritize their relationships. So like my wife and I, we prioritize our relationship, right? Because I, I feel this tremendous responsibility of like,
• 59:54
  If you're going to learn how to love a woman, I need to live that. Like you need to see it as a 3D walking, talking, you know, movie, right. On a daily basis, my wife, same thing. She's like, I feel the responsibility of like, I need to show you what it means to treat a man. Well, because that way, when all these jokers, you know, these joker teenage girls come knocking on your door and they're doing like these dumb things.
• 1:00:19
  I've set the standard high of what it means for how you should be treated. I also think it's a pretty good thing because it also demonstrates to the kid, you are not the sunrise and the sunset. The world does not start and end with you. You are not the center of the universe. There are other people and other things that are around. Right. But I think that that's a huge priority. I also think another big priority is,
• 1:00:45
  And that that's more, I think, outside of the fatherhood thing, it's more in the marriage thing. But as far as like the fatherhood thing, it's, it's everything that we actually just talked about, right? It's creating environments of psychological safety. It's creating environments where you're interested in your kid's life, because we don't even have time to go into the fruit of that. But like, when you can do those things, you're, it is miraculous at all the indirect benefits that come with that. Yeah.
• 1:01:13
  So like, if you're the interested dad and you have conversations with your kids, you're like the first person in the world that they want to talk to, you know, when, when they come home from school, you're the first person that when something goes bad, they want to call. You're the first person that when things go really good, they want to tell. It's like the super glue. It's the stickiness in their relationship that sets it apart and makes it unique.
• 1:01:36
  You know, the first time I'm going to disagree with you and I'm not going to say that you're wrong. I'm going to say that I just have a different view. And my view is that and probably because I haven't been married for as long as you and you're more successful at it. So I believe that life is like an airplane and I have to put my mask on.
• 1:01:51
  Before I can help anybody else. So I, in my relationship with my girlfriend and even my daughter, I have to make sure my physical and mental health comes first. That's number one. Because if that's straight, I'm going to be all right for everybody. And then I can provide.
• 1:02:07
  and be there and do everything else. That's number one. It's an unpopular thing, but that's just something I have to put myself first because I was always put last. And then when I do that, I do it as selfless as can be because I do that so I can be a better person for you and everybody else.
• 1:02:25
  That's probably because I haven't been married. So I'm going to ask two more quick questions and then we're going to rapid fire and wrap this thing up and we can go on forever. I hope that people are loving this. I'm loving every minute of it. I can't wait to meet you in person. It's just yours advertised. So what's one dad myth you wish society would throw in the trash forever?
• 1:02:43
  Oh my God. Well, there's a couple. So one would be that you have to do it all on your own. Yep. Like just isolate and try to figure out all on your own and just muscle your way through it. I don't recommend that one at all. In fact, um, the more you can be in community, the more you can be in tribe, the more you can surround yourself with iron sharpens iron men who have the same vision and desire that you do, the better off you're going to be. Let's just say like, for instance, you're having issues with your marriage, right?
• 1:03:08
  And we could even say you're having issues with connecting with your kid. Either one. It doesn't really matter, right? If you're having issues with that, my first question to you is, what have you learned to learn how to connect in a relationship? Most of the time, the missing ingredient, it's not a ding on the person being bad at relationships. It's not a person that they don't know.
• 1:03:28
  It's that they've never been taught. They've never, it's like you go to jujitsu to learn jujitsu. You don't go to jujitsu because you know, jujitsu, like, you don't say I'm bad at jujitsu. You say, I haven't learned it yet, but how often do we say that? I'm bad at relationships. I'm bad at communication. No, you haven't learned it. I haven't learned great advice, my friend, two good ones. Last one. We'll keep it short is what's a secret weapon. Most dads have that they don't even realize.
• 1:03:57
  Well, here's what I want you to do. If you want to know the answer to that question, Google fatherless home statistics. Oh, those numbers will show you that they are black and white, that it's data, it's analytics, and it will show you how important your role is, even if you don't think that you're important.
• 1:04:18
  Because a lot of guys are like, I don't really make that big of a difference. You make a huge difference. You are the difference between lightness and darkness. You are the difference between good or bad. Like if you look at this, like I think it's 92% of incarcerated individuals come from a fatherless environment. It's like 82% of drug addicts come from a fatherless environment.
• 1:04:44
  It's if you really look at those stats and if you ever don't think your role is important, that will illustrate why your presence, just your presence and engagement is so critical. It is, man. I'm taking it from someone that has had nobody around and it's so important. Larry, short questions. These are great. One word, one sentence answers. So one word your wife would use to describe you as a dad. Um,
• 1:05:14
  engaged. Oh, so good. Favorite moment with your sons in the last 30 days, teaching my son, my nine-year-old how to catch a pop fly. And in the past two nights, not that I've counted, I've thrown him 225 pop flies. Wow. I only know that cause there's 25 balls that go into the bucket. And every time we refill the bucket, I know there's 25.
• 1:05:36
  nice sign them up for the tigers i know your cardinals are one but we're having trouble here in detroit what worst parenting advice you've ever heard um you'll figure it out jesus what's more powerful a hug or a hard truth i gotta be honest i would say the hard truth only because
• 1:05:57
  I think hugs are so powerful. I really, really do. But I also think if people don't know a reality of something that maybe they should, a hug might just cover it up. Man, I got to tell you, a hug for me would just turn me into a ball of freaking tears. Literally, because I didn't, I had nothing. I just felt alone. Your go-to phrase when your kids are driving you insane. I got this. Most underrated fatherhood skill.
• 1:06:28
  Emotional validation. Oh, man. Emotional intelligence. That's what we need to be teaching in school. What's harder, raising toddlers or launching teens? In my opinion, toddlers. Really? I love teens. I love my teens, man. We just, I just love it. I think it's reversed with girls. One thing you do every day without fail.
• 1:06:54
  I move. I either weight train. I get in steps every day. I'm doing something active, right? I'm just trying to be, I'm trying to get Kelly's abs is what I'm trying to do. Thank you. Thank you for all the kind words. Which child is most like you? My oldest. The legacy you're building in one word. Can I use two? Yep. Unbreakable connection. Love that. I was going to say presence.
• 1:07:19
  I don't know. For some reason, when I even say that word, I get emotional. So thank you for everything. Let's wrap this up. Don't scratch the surface. All I can say is, wow, that one hit home. Larry Hagner reminded us today that being a great dad and husband doesn't come with a manual.
• 1:07:38
  It comes with intention, discipline, and connection. It's not about perfection. It's about pursuit. If you're drifting through life, stop, reconnect, reflect, and lead your damn family. Make sure to grab Larry's new book, The Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood, and check out his family score tool. It's a game changer. And fellas, if this episode slapped you in the soul the way it did me, share it.
• 1:08:05
  Don't keep this to yourself. Be the reason another man wakes the hell up. And as always, I'm your host, Kelly Siegel, reminding you to live boldly, love deeply, and keep doing the hard things because this life, it ain't easy, but you're built to be harder than life.
• 1:08:22
  Please rate and share this podcast. I'm active on all social platforms and love to hear from my Segal supporters. Each and every episode is sponsored by my company, National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day, even simplifying cybersecurity. Visit TrustNTM.com for more info. Until next week, be harder than life.