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Hollywood's Toxic Treatment of Women · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane
0:07
Speaker 1: Never Told your production of iHeart Radio. Yes, and welcome
0:19
Speaker 1: to today's episode. Annie. I'm gonna go ahead and start
0:22
Speaker 1: off with a question. Are you ready? I hope so, yeah,
0:25
Speaker 1: I hope you are too. Here we go. So, Annie,
0:28
Speaker 1: you are in the world of acting, your nectar, and
0:32
Speaker 1: so that makes me ask when you were growing up,
0:34
Speaker 1: was it something that you wanted to do a and be?
0:38
Speaker 1: If so, who, if you had any were some of
0:41
Speaker 1: the actresses that you looked up to? Well, good question.
0:45
Speaker 1: I have always wanted to act, but I also suffer
0:49
Speaker 1: from uh, pretty strong anxiety, performance anxiety, and shyness. So
0:54
Speaker 1: I was really bad at it. I'll just be honest
0:56
Speaker 1: with me, Like every now and then, you if I
1:00
Speaker 1: could get past those nerves, then it would be great.
1:03
Speaker 1: But usually I'd be up there like four years old,
1:06
Speaker 1: like like shaking, visibly shaking. And it was so it
1:10
Speaker 1: was a strange thing that I dreaded and loved. And
1:14
Speaker 1: I have some performance since I look back on and
1:16
Speaker 1: they gave me great shame. They eat my cheeks with shame. Um.
1:21
Speaker 1: I have auditions that I'm like, please, for the love
1:23
Speaker 1: of everything. I hope this never gets out because it's terrible,
1:27
Speaker 1: Like I have a panic attack in the middle of one,
1:29
Speaker 1: Like I hurt myself during a performance once because my
1:33
Speaker 1: character like fell asleep. She was supposed to fall asleep
1:36
Speaker 1: in the middle and I just like slammed my head
1:38
Speaker 1: on the table and it was supposed to be funny,
1:39
Speaker 1: and I just remember everyone in the auditor I'm going,
1:41
Speaker 1: oh no, we got awkward, and I had a huge
1:46
Speaker 1: bruise on my face, like it was bad. Oh no.
1:50
Speaker 1: So I have been doing it since I was probably
1:52
Speaker 1: four um, and I like to think I've gotten better,
1:55
Speaker 1: but it is still a source of nerves for me.
1:59
Speaker 1: I was very mad tive and I liked coming up
2:01
Speaker 1: with scenarios and I like pretending, So I think that
2:04
Speaker 1: was part of it. And it's interesting for this topic
2:07
Speaker 1: they were talking about today and for the conversation we
2:09
Speaker 1: had with Eves recently. In her last People First, we
2:12
Speaker 1: did UM, I didn't really the attention was not the
2:16
Speaker 1: thing I wanted, right, So even like that is a
2:18
Speaker 1: huge part of performance. I just wanted to like pretend
2:23
Speaker 1: and act the like people looking at me part? No, right, yes,
2:29
Speaker 1: but I did UM. Also interesting for this conversation. I
2:33
Speaker 1: did look up to you a number of actresses, and
2:35
Speaker 1: Nalie Portman was a big one. After Phantom Menace came out,
2:38
Speaker 1: I was big. I was like, oh, I want to
2:40
Speaker 1: be like her, only enough Scarlett Johansson. But I saw
2:45
Speaker 1: her in the Hole of Three, which was a movie
2:47
Speaker 1: I loved, and I will admit it, that's amazing to
2:52
Speaker 1: say your actophobia. I'm not gonna lie. No. I did
2:55
Speaker 1: watch that though, because David Arkutt was in it, and
2:57
Speaker 1: I had a crush on David ar kid No, he
2:59
Speaker 1: was an eight like it freaks. I'm mixing it up. No, no, no, no,
3:03
Speaker 1: no no. Kate and Ashley Olson, that was they were
3:07
Speaker 1: big for me, as you know. I was in their
3:08
Speaker 1: fan club and I watched all their stuff. That's right, Yeah,
3:12
Speaker 1: I think those were, I'm sure and forgetting other people,
3:17
Speaker 1: but those, I think Natalie Apartment was my biggest and
3:20
Speaker 1: in terms of like an actor that I was like, right, yes, right,
3:24
Speaker 1: I love it. Well, you know, I was thinking about
3:27
Speaker 1: all of this and I forgot until my niece, who
3:30
Speaker 1: I just saw recently, who is in a senior in
3:33
Speaker 1: high school and a part of drama, reminded me that
3:37
Speaker 1: I am a part of the International Thespian Society, and
3:39
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, I actually did qualify for that,
3:43
Speaker 1: didn't I Because I was also in drama and I
3:45
Speaker 1: really loved it. And when I tell you, I have
3:48
Speaker 1: some really horrible moments as some really horrible moments, because
3:51
Speaker 1: as you know, my work ethic needs to push sometimes.
3:55
Speaker 1: I like to work on the edge, and I am
3:58
Speaker 1: one of those that has to do with last minute
4:00
Speaker 1: or it's not gonna be good and it's going to
4:02
Speaker 1: be all over the place, which is funny because it's
4:04
Speaker 1: already kind of all over the place, but it would
4:06
Speaker 1: be way worse in way in advance. Um. And I
4:10
Speaker 1: did that way with my auditions, and that did not
4:12
Speaker 1: turn out so well because middle prizes not lines like
4:15
Speaker 1: ten minutes of dialogue the night before almost impossible, almost impossible.
4:22
Speaker 1: Let you have one of those identic memories, and I
4:24
Speaker 1: do not. I do not. So I did do this
4:29
Speaker 1: on stage. I actually thought I was going to be
4:30
Speaker 1: an actor too. Of course, the reality of it was
4:34
Speaker 1: I was a chubby Asian girl. There's no way in
4:36
Speaker 1: hell I've not seen many chubby Asian girls in general,
4:38
Speaker 1: unless they are kind of the caricature, um, stereotypical characters,
4:43
Speaker 1: and I would never I didn't want that necessarily, although
4:46
Speaker 1: I do enjoy being funny, so hoping like the only
4:50
Speaker 1: way I want attention is about making people laugh and
4:52
Speaker 1: then I run away and hope they're not laughing at me. Um.
4:56
Speaker 1: But yeah, actually I was thinking about that. I was like, oh, yeah,
4:58
Speaker 1: I actually know a little it about this world a
5:01
Speaker 1: little bit. And I say this in the high school
5:04
Speaker 1: level of a little bit, as you know my acting
5:07
Speaker 1: these work. But why am I talking about all of this? Um?
5:12
Speaker 1: When it comes to celebrities, we are fascinated, and y'all
5:14
Speaker 1: I am fascinated. I will do a deep dive about
5:17
Speaker 1: who is connected to whom and how they all know
5:20
Speaker 1: each other. I love playing the third degrees to Kevin Bacon,
5:23
Speaker 1: to Givin Bacon if I can, which I never really
5:26
Speaker 1: relate to Kevin Bacon, but third degree, three degrees? What
5:30
Speaker 1: is it? Six degrees of Kevin? Damn it, I can't
5:34
Speaker 1: even get it right there? You want to be accurate,
5:40
Speaker 1: you know what? He was on the Hot Ones the
5:42
Speaker 1: other day and I was like, I am anyway, So
5:46
Speaker 1: whether it's the projects they're in or about their personal lives.
5:50
Speaker 1: We get invested, I really get invested, so much so
5:53
Speaker 1: that it seems that their lives become public property. More
5:58
Speaker 1: and more conversations have sparked with different controversial topics specific
6:02
Speaker 1: to women and female celebrities, and for those whose careers
6:06
Speaker 1: start at an early age even more so. So today
6:09
Speaker 1: we wanted to look at what is happening with Hollywood,
6:12
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to the young ladies. Um So
6:16
Speaker 1: before we start, I feel like we need to do
6:19
Speaker 1: some history right because this is what we do. And
6:21
Speaker 1: I've talked a lot about the fact that I feel
6:23
Speaker 1: like I'm lacking a little bit in my life when
6:25
Speaker 1: it comes to hobbies and interests. I just kind of
6:27
Speaker 1: gave up on a lot of things. But I realized
6:32
Speaker 1: as we were researching this topic, there are so many realizations.
6:34
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, but I was really into
6:37
Speaker 1: old school Hollywood. Like I have a lot of trivia
6:40
Speaker 1: knowledge as well as some interesting facts and and like
6:43
Speaker 1: I've seen the most obscure old old movies which you're
6:46
Speaker 1: gonna hear me reference and it's interesting. Um, but I'm
6:50
Speaker 1: being like old school. I loved musicals and I know
6:53
Speaker 1: I've talked about this with Eve's actually on here because
6:56
Speaker 1: we both really like musicals, and we'll talk about hey
6:59
Speaker 1: have you seen this? Which she gave me one and
7:01
Speaker 1: in the move it's somewhere my stuff. I need to
7:04
Speaker 1: find it. And I didn't watch it because it's supposed
7:05
Speaker 1: to be a delight us. And yes, I mean loved
7:10
Speaker 1: so much so that my mother would always say that
7:13
Speaker 1: I should have been born in the forties, which I
7:15
Speaker 1: always countered with the fact that my career self would
7:18
Speaker 1: have never been welcomed in the US, much less in Hollywood,
7:21
Speaker 1: So you know, there's that. But alas, I loved it,
7:24
Speaker 1: loved it so much that I would watch documentaries about
7:27
Speaker 1: different movie stars and movies. And also in my mind,
7:30
Speaker 1: I just knew I could time travel to meet them,
7:32
Speaker 1: like I had these fantasies one day, time traveling to
7:35
Speaker 1: meet these people, which would have been in a horrible
7:37
Speaker 1: mistake because a lot of people were awful people. But
7:40
Speaker 1: when he came down to the reality, well it was ugly.
7:44
Speaker 1: And the more I learned, and I think the more
7:46
Speaker 1: we realized how awful it must have been for a
7:49
Speaker 1: lot of them, especially the women, especially young women. And
7:52
Speaker 1: I guess here we should go ahead and let you
7:54
Speaker 1: know that we are going to talk a bit about
7:57
Speaker 1: some of the trauma and traumatic experiences many of these stars,
8:00
Speaker 1: including abuse, eating disorder, sexualization of young girls, and the such. So,
8:06
Speaker 1: even though we're not going to go too heavily into
8:08
Speaker 1: the deep deep, we are going to talk about why
8:10
Speaker 1: this can be ugly. Yeah, and it is no longer
8:13
Speaker 1: a secret that the movie industry was not all glits
8:17
Speaker 1: and glamour, especially for young women. Um. If you read
8:19
Speaker 1: memoirs and on biographies on past stars like Judy Garland,
8:22
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Taylor, Shirley Temple, I would add Carrie Fisher, um,
8:26
Speaker 1: and so many more, we saw all this abuse that
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Speaker 1: young stars went through. UM, how they were treated as property, um,
8:35
Speaker 1: less than human. Horror stories after horror stories of abuse
8:40
Speaker 1: and harassment haunted the old movies that so many of
8:43
Speaker 1: us A door. Garland told the story being so medicated
8:46
Speaker 1: that she wasn't able to come to set on time
8:48
Speaker 1: and being hospitalized thanks to studio exects and even her
8:51
Speaker 1: own mother who pushed her beyond her sanity and her
8:54
Speaker 1: health to become a perfect young starlet. The overall pressure
8:58
Speaker 1: on the young stars was detrimental and was coming from
9:01
Speaker 1: all sides, including s Familey, and oftentimes the stars were
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Speaker 1: the breadwinners of the family, even America's sweetheart Shirley Temple,
9:08
Speaker 1: who I also did love. Yes Um talked about the
9:11
Speaker 1: overwhelming moments of not wanting to disappoint her mother and
9:14
Speaker 1: even her father. Elizabeth Taylor, though she seemed to have
9:18
Speaker 1: a better relationship with her parents, still knew she had
9:20
Speaker 1: to keep going for them and even for her fans.
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Speaker 1: In her biography, her mother was quoted to have said,
9:26
Speaker 1: but you're not a regular child, and thank God for that.
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Speaker 1: You have a responsibility, Elizabeth, not just to this family,
9:32
Speaker 1: but to the country now and the whole world right
9:35
Speaker 1: And honestly, it doesn't seem like it's changed much. I
9:38
Speaker 1: think there's a little more awareness, and we tried little
9:42
Speaker 1: see what's happening. But when it comes to the expectations
9:44
Speaker 1: placed on young stars, the responsibility of building a fandom
9:48
Speaker 1: and building a persona and helping provide for their familis
9:51
Speaker 1: is still there. And for young girls, the fine line
9:53
Speaker 1: between infantilizing and sexualizing causes even more emotional and physical stress,
9:58
Speaker 1: which has been around from the beginning of time. When
10:01
Speaker 1: it comes to Hollywood celebrities, and celebrities in general. In
10:04
Speaker 1: the early memoirs of these classic Hollywood stars, there were
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Speaker 1: many who talked all of the ongoing stress of growing
10:10
Speaker 1: up too fast or those who are not growing up
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Speaker 1: fast enough. Shirley Tipple's career became stagnant after her early
10:15
Speaker 1: childhood career, as many could not see her as an
10:18
Speaker 1: adult with an actual adult body. Um. And it may
10:22
Speaker 1: have been due to the hard working machine of studio
10:24
Speaker 1: publicist and media at the time, but it was odd
10:27
Speaker 1: to know her from classics like The Little Princess to
10:31
Speaker 1: seeing her in the movie That Hagen Girl, which I
10:34
Speaker 1: have seen and it really threw me for a loop.
10:36
Speaker 1: I was very young when I watched this. Of course,
10:38
Speaker 1: Shirley Tipple was already an ambassador and has gone on
10:41
Speaker 1: to live her own life. Um. But it's it started
10:45
Speaker 1: her and Ronald Reagan, which at that time, I've never
10:48
Speaker 1: seen Ronald Reagan in a movie. I knew he was
10:50
Speaker 1: an actor at one point in time, but I've never
10:52
Speaker 1: actually seen him in a movie. So that's kind of
10:55
Speaker 1: like whoa there he is? Who was, by the way,
10:57
Speaker 1: is seventeen years older than her during this time, so
11:01
Speaker 1: she was nineteen and he was thirty six, and in
11:04
Speaker 1: this he was her romantic lead. And yeah, the plot
11:08
Speaker 1: of the movie was that he may have been her
11:10
Speaker 1: father because she was orphaned and she was trying to
11:12
Speaker 1: figure that out, but then it turned out the goodness
11:13
Speaker 1: he wasn't because he was slowly falling in love with her,
11:16
Speaker 1: and then they go off into the train station to
11:18
Speaker 1: go get married. It was a very odd set up
11:21
Speaker 1: to me, and I remember, obviously it is distinct in
11:24
Speaker 1: my mind. I'm like, this does not compute, does not compute.
11:31
Speaker 1: But yeah, But honestly, though, even though we talked about
11:34
Speaker 1: Shirley Templeby and fantalized and being young and trying to
11:37
Speaker 1: stay young like they made her younger, they lied about
11:40
Speaker 1: her age on the contract so she could continue beyond
11:43
Speaker 1: the time limit. Um. But her first film had her
11:46
Speaker 1: in an exotic bar uh during a war film called
11:50
Speaker 1: War Babies. So it's kind of like, m did she did?
11:54
Speaker 1: She actually just get thrown into that way. And Elizabeth
11:57
Speaker 1: Taylor was sexualized at a very early age who are
12:00
Speaker 1: physically developing early um and even being pushed to set
12:03
Speaker 1: up be set up on fate dates to show how
12:06
Speaker 1: quickly she was becoming a woman. So these studio execs
12:09
Speaker 1: were excited that she was growing up and I like
12:11
Speaker 1: fifteen sixtaying pushed her into that genre of a quickly yeah,
12:16
Speaker 1: And for that time, this type of push was accepted
12:18
Speaker 1: and not well regulated. There were stories of separating child
12:21
Speaker 1: stars from the parents so they could discipline children however
12:25
Speaker 1: necessary for the movie, including locking children boxes, making them
12:29
Speaker 1: sit on blocks of ice if they were not obedient,
12:32
Speaker 1: pushing actors to work beyond the regulated times, and other
12:35
Speaker 1: horror stories. So much so that studies were conductative child
12:39
Speaker 1: stars and performers and how they may be affected emotionally
12:42
Speaker 1: and physically by all of this. Many young girls talked
12:45
Speaker 1: about how they experienced sexual harassment during their times on
12:48
Speaker 1: studios and sets, and many talked about the overly strict
12:52
Speaker 1: attitude of their parents pushing them into that career. And
12:56
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of conversation around that in
12:58
Speaker 1: terms of reality TV show well, one article we found
13:02
Speaker 1: talked about the impact of being a celebrity as a
13:04
Speaker 1: child and of the impacts of the motivation of both
13:08
Speaker 1: child and parents, and how that could determine a child's
13:10
Speaker 1: experience as well as the amount of time they spent
13:13
Speaker 1: in the spotlight um environment and the child's age, and
13:17
Speaker 1: in the same article they said, these children are at
13:20
Speaker 1: high risk of becoming emotionally unstable and of becoming drug, alcohol,
13:23
Speaker 1: or sex abusers. Children at different ages displayed behavioral changes
13:27
Speaker 1: that might indicate that they are risk. Yeah, and it's
13:30
Speaker 1: just that article was talking mainly about the type of
13:33
Speaker 1: high risk behavior that they would have UM if they
13:36
Speaker 1: were monitored, and how this could go a ride. Of course,
13:39
Speaker 1: they used Drew Barrymore as an example as she was
13:42
Speaker 1: introduced to that lifestyle very young by her mother thinking
13:45
Speaker 1: you know, her mother was thinking she can be a
13:47
Speaker 1: cool kid UM. As well as Elizabeth Taylor being very
13:50
Speaker 1: sexualized very early and being told this is her worth
13:53
Speaker 1: and so her finding that as her worth UM and
13:57
Speaker 1: trying to really capitalize on it, not only her screen
14:00
Speaker 1: life but on her personal life. So it was very
14:02
Speaker 1: interesting take in that conversation. It was a fairly old article,
14:06
Speaker 1: and I wonder what they would say, because you're right,
14:08
Speaker 1: we don't even talk about reality TV and this and
14:10
Speaker 1: how that changes. We do talk a little bit about
14:12
Speaker 1: social media, so kind of on that same level, but
14:16
Speaker 1: when it comes to reality TV, what does it do?
14:18
Speaker 1: Who does it harm and is it really healthy? Have
14:21
Speaker 1: we seen a good example. There's a lot of questions.
14:38
Speaker 1: The role of media has always helped to make or
14:40
Speaker 1: break careers, and it was a bit more manageable during
14:43
Speaker 1: the so called Golden Age of film. Um and I
14:45
Speaker 1: say manageable, manipulated, but they held a lot of power,
14:50
Speaker 1: but in a different way than today. We'll talk a
14:52
Speaker 1: little more about how media affects today versus then, but
14:56
Speaker 1: historically it was no different. And Elizabeth Taylor's biography, the
14:59
Speaker 1: author talked about Taylor's own connections with a popular columnists
15:03
Speaker 1: who helped make many careers as well as ended many,
15:06
Speaker 1: and how often studios would use the media to keep
15:09
Speaker 1: the perfect image of their stars at all expenses. Essentially,
15:14
Speaker 1: they would pay whatever in order to keep that going
15:16
Speaker 1: and unsurprisingly, all of the success caused a lot of
15:19
Speaker 1: competition among stars, which is still around. Elizabeth Taylor's feud
15:23
Speaker 1: with Debbie Reynolds painted Taylor as a villain, as the
15:27
Speaker 1: temptress who came and stole her man, which she kind
15:30
Speaker 1: of did. Um and then rolls were fought over, more
15:33
Speaker 1: fuse happened, and it kept them on their toes because
15:36
Speaker 1: essentially the studios wanted this to happen. They needed the
15:41
Speaker 1: stars to know they're expendable, and the evils of comparing
15:44
Speaker 1: young stars with each other was prevalent in order to
15:47
Speaker 1: keep them in line m H. But the overall usage
15:51
Speaker 1: of shame and guilt was a cloud leaming over all
15:53
Speaker 1: of them. Body shaming began from the start, with young
15:57
Speaker 1: stars brought in to be inspected, judged, and often times
16:00
Speaker 1: physically changed, including plastic surgery and dangerous drugs being used
16:04
Speaker 1: to keep young girls thin even if they didn't need
16:07
Speaker 1: to be. So, the question remains, has it changed? Has
16:13
Speaker 1: it changed? Well? Unfortunately, when it comes to sexualizing or
16:20
Speaker 1: infantalizing young stars, nothing has really changed. Honestly, it seems
16:24
Speaker 1: it may have gotten worse, thanks in part to things
16:27
Speaker 1: like social media, UM and the Internet as a whole.
16:30
Speaker 1: In one article from NBC about Natally a Portman's own
16:33
Speaker 1: experience as a child actor, they write, quote, Hollywood bifurcase
16:37
Speaker 1: young women's sexuality, so they usually only have two options
16:40
Speaker 1: to be hyper sexual or to deny that they are
16:42
Speaker 1: sexual at all and it's true, which often leads the
16:46
Speaker 1: audience and fans to only see these actors in one
16:48
Speaker 1: specific way. UM and then if that's if that image
16:52
Speaker 1: is torn apart. Oftentimes this at the expense of the
16:56
Speaker 1: actress themselves, as in fact, Portman talked about how one
16:59
Speaker 1: of her fan letters was a rape fantasy written about
17:03
Speaker 1: her by an adult man and they sent it to
17:05
Speaker 1: her as a fan which, yeah, and but that's not
17:09
Speaker 1: the worst of it. We've seen repeatedly how media will
17:13
Speaker 1: score young actors about what they wear, how much they weigh,
17:16
Speaker 1: and whether they fit the mold of that perfect star um.
17:19
Speaker 1: And a prime example, of course is Britney Spears, who
17:22
Speaker 1: has been raped over the coals for any and everything,
17:25
Speaker 1: eventually leading her to the conservativeship against her will. And yeah,
17:29
Speaker 1: I know we've talked about this before, but I think
17:31
Speaker 1: it's really she is a good highlight of what has
17:33
Speaker 1: happened recently and what we're kind of learning from but
17:37
Speaker 1: not enough. Yeah, yeah, she she went from being the
17:42
Speaker 1: virgin to the horror within a few years, with every
17:46
Speaker 1: aspect of her life being ridiculed and scrutinized. Um and
17:49
Speaker 1: later I'm being critiqued in her parenting and of course
17:51
Speaker 1: her body as a whole. Um and the overall obsession
17:55
Speaker 1: in her sex life was a complete double standard in
17:58
Speaker 1: comparison to her male counterpart hurts as. In fact, while
18:01
Speaker 1: she was ridiculed and publicly grilled and TV interviews, her
18:04
Speaker 1: ex boyfriend was being praised as being a man for
18:07
Speaker 1: getting quote into her pants. Many conservative parent groups were
18:11
Speaker 1: admonishing her as a bad influence and would shame her
18:14
Speaker 1: as well as any of her fan bees. Um proving
18:17
Speaker 1: once again and Dan if you do, Dan if you
18:19
Speaker 1: don't for so many of the young celebrities right um.
18:24
Speaker 1: And we also have seen the disturbing conversations about young
18:27
Speaker 1: teens who we as fans have been able to see
18:31
Speaker 1: grow up but quickly become an object of obsession and sexualization.
18:35
Speaker 1: Examples include the different reddit and blogs that have countdown
18:39
Speaker 1: clocks to when young girls were turning eighteen years old. Example, um,
18:43
Speaker 1: Emma Watson, I think she she had a whole post
18:47
Speaker 1: of her turning sixteen. A radio show did that. I
18:49
Speaker 1: believe a rapper did it for Kendall General when she
18:52
Speaker 1: was turning eighteen. Um to the fact that I think
18:56
Speaker 1: someone actually propositioned her to do a sex tape when
18:59
Speaker 1: she turned immediately eighteen, or even worse, put in situations
19:03
Speaker 1: such as Marra Wilson who was a child star of
19:06
Speaker 1: movies such as Matilda and Mrs Doubtfire, were images of
19:10
Speaker 1: her on foot fetge sides, and she was photoshopped into
19:13
Speaker 1: child pornography. Um all before the age of twelve, and
19:17
Speaker 1: today it's still happening. As the new season of Stranger
19:20
Speaker 1: Things has been released, which I binged Yes I did
19:24
Speaker 1: um and start Milly Bobby Brown's or recent eighteenth birthday,
19:27
Speaker 1: her image and style has been sexualized and criticized by
19:30
Speaker 1: so many. Of course, it didn't just start when she
19:32
Speaker 1: turned eighteen, but has been a topic of conversation since
19:35
Speaker 1: she's hit the spotlight. Uh. And on top of that,
19:38
Speaker 1: she's having to defend herself from strangers who seem to
19:41
Speaker 1: think they know her enough to judge her, including people
19:43
Speaker 1: calling her a bit off the fact that they can
19:45
Speaker 1: just tell yeah, yeah, And I was talking to you.
19:49
Speaker 1: One of my friends, Rissa has been on here hold
19:51
Speaker 1: on Rissa, and she's like my other TikTok person. It's
19:54
Speaker 1: you and her send me the TikTok said I need um.
19:58
Speaker 1: And I was asking her about this because this was
20:00
Speaker 1: sort of the impetus you told me about this on TikTok,
20:02
Speaker 1: sort of the impetus for this episode, and she she's
20:05
Speaker 1: a huge Stranger Things fan, and she was telling me
20:08
Speaker 1: like she remembered when million Bobby Brown was younger, like
20:11
Speaker 1: really young, and people would pull her apart, to her
20:14
Speaker 1: apart because she talked too much. She wasn't like pr trained.
20:18
Speaker 1: She was a child who was excited, so they tore
20:20
Speaker 1: her apart. And now they're mad, according to Marissa, and
20:23
Speaker 1: I believe Marissa. Now they're mad because she seems more
20:27
Speaker 1: cold and like closed off. But she's doing the thing
20:30
Speaker 1: that they were telling her she should have done as
20:32
Speaker 1: a child. Basically, she got pr trating. It sounds like essentially,
20:38
Speaker 1: I know there was one post where she they were
20:41
Speaker 1: doing publicity for Stranger Things. It was the whole cast
20:46
Speaker 1: and she came out I think of the crowd and
20:50
Speaker 1: came to the front because of another photographer. You know,
20:54
Speaker 1: someone had requested it, or she had been pushed up
20:56
Speaker 1: or something, and it wasn't just because she did it,
20:59
Speaker 1: and one of the photograph like, she's so annoying, why
21:01
Speaker 1: didn't get out of the way, And it was like, wait,
21:04
Speaker 1: she's just doing what she's been instructed to do. Why
21:07
Speaker 1: are you doing this? And then another post which she criticized,
21:11
Speaker 1: and I could put this in quote marks, but she
21:13
Speaker 1: was saying if she could change something that she wished
21:16
Speaker 1: more death said she wanted like a Game of Thrones
21:18
Speaker 1: level of deaths in the show because it didn't feel realistic.
21:21
Speaker 1: And then she was teasing the Duffer brothers are saying,
21:25
Speaker 1: you know, they're being pansies. They needed then you just
21:28
Speaker 1: go ahead kill people off. And of course they responded,
21:31
Speaker 1: they like, all right, we got you. But the way
21:33
Speaker 1: they presented it was Millie Bobby Brown criticizes directors, and
21:40
Speaker 1: it was obviously a push of a dig as if
21:43
Speaker 1: she was truly saying this, And even still it seemed
21:46
Speaker 1: in the interview, if you actually read the interview, it
21:48
Speaker 1: was obvious that she had said this to them before
21:51
Speaker 1: making fun of them and or teasing them, and said
21:53
Speaker 1: it out loud, and then the bid misconstrued as her
21:55
Speaker 1: being a bit complaining about the show. So it was
21:59
Speaker 1: very interesting to see how they are really framing what
22:02
Speaker 1: she is doing, how she is being being professional, her
22:06
Speaker 1: being I mean, she is now a pro with this.
22:08
Speaker 1: She has done this since a child, probably more understanding
22:14
Speaker 1: of this limelight that a lot of people. So she
22:17
Speaker 1: is an old hat in this. But because of that,
22:19
Speaker 1: she's too confident, she's too sure what is she doing?
22:23
Speaker 1: Which does make you think, right, it does? It does?
22:27
Speaker 1: Um something else that makes you think there are these
22:31
Speaker 1: old school ideas that can still lead to a loss
22:34
Speaker 1: of opportunity for these young stars, such as Vanessa Hudgens,
22:38
Speaker 1: who was fired from Disney after nude pictures of her
22:40
Speaker 1: were leaked. Um. Which actually leads to a whole other
22:44
Speaker 1: topic which we want to revisit, concerning how the media
22:46
Speaker 1: and people in general exploit celebrities by releasing private data
22:50
Speaker 1: or information for the sake of gossip. I also want
22:53
Speaker 1: to add in here, and this all reminds me of
22:55
Speaker 1: when it was a big deal when Order the Phoenix
22:58
Speaker 1: came out and ms UM and the company or somebody
23:04
Speaker 1: who worked with the company photos shopped her boobs to
23:06
Speaker 1: be bigger, and people were like, Hi, that's it, that's it,
23:10
Speaker 1: like necessary, why you why are you doing this? And
23:16
Speaker 1: I remember being like, it just sends a message. A
23:19
Speaker 1: lot of this sends a message to young girls who
23:21
Speaker 1: are consuming it. Right. Um. But yeah, speaking of media, right,
23:26
Speaker 1: let's jump into it. So we did talk about earlier
23:29
Speaker 1: how media does impact and it's changed a little bit
23:31
Speaker 1: since that time, and it's not so controlled by studios anymore.
23:35
Speaker 1: Um So, after the release of Framing Britney Spears, there
23:38
Speaker 1: was a new flurry of conversation about how we as
23:41
Speaker 1: a society treat young women in Hollywood. Of course, if
23:44
Speaker 1: you're my age range. One of the biggest conversations the
23:46
Speaker 1: impact of media celebrities was due to the tragic death
23:49
Speaker 1: of Princess Diana, which we could talk about how Megan
23:53
Speaker 1: Markle is being scrutinized in a similar way today, um
23:56
Speaker 1: of course with the added plus of racist media, so
23:59
Speaker 1: that's a different conversation. But we did highlight how so
24:02
Speaker 1: many of the celebrities during that time or often dragged
24:05
Speaker 1: through the mud for click baity articles and selling just tabloids.
24:09
Speaker 1: And that was the kind of the beginning of TMC
24:12
Speaker 1: Entertainment tonight, all that which was just all about celebrity gossip.
24:16
Speaker 1: And yeah, as we look in hindsight, we see that
24:19
Speaker 1: there's something fundamentally wrong when someone's trauma is used to
24:22
Speaker 1: get a bit of cash or notoriety. As writer as
24:25
Speaker 1: Shandon mcgigan, So sorry if I said that wrong. Rice
24:28
Speaker 1: in her article on the media's treatment of female public figures. Quote.
24:31
Speaker 1: The intensity of the media's hounding of Brittany highlighted a
24:34
Speaker 1: real lack of empathy shown towards the star h and
24:37
Speaker 1: this was a statement from Hannah Davies in that article,
24:42
Speaker 1: which was the Guardians deputy TV editor at the time.
24:45
Speaker 1: She further declared that Brittany was dehumanized in the eyes
24:48
Speaker 1: of the media and the public, with society expressing an
24:50
Speaker 1: intense amounts of judgment and criticism that was regarded as
24:54
Speaker 1: socially acceptable, demonstrated through March plastered with jokes of Brittany
24:58
Speaker 1: surviving two thousand and eight being produced or profit. And
25:01
Speaker 1: we know how all of that went down, all of
25:03
Speaker 1: the clips and if you've got a photo in her distress,
25:07
Speaker 1: it was paid for by thousands and thousands of dollars.
25:12
Speaker 1: And the messier the better for the media. Headlines insinuating
25:17
Speaker 1: mental health breakdowns, drug usage, messy breakups pushed young celebrities
25:22
Speaker 1: to the edge, and the team boys were talked about.
25:24
Speaker 1: It was never to the same degree that the young
25:26
Speaker 1: team girls received. They pitted women against women for bigger
25:30
Speaker 1: headlines like we had the whole Team Gin or Team Angelina,
25:34
Speaker 1: Brad Pitt there was T shirts. Yeah, yeah, I mean
25:39
Speaker 1: it was a huge thing. I just remember like going down,
25:41
Speaker 1: like checking out the grocery store, like every magazine cover
25:45
Speaker 1: was like I know, I know. Wow. Um. Then we
25:52
Speaker 1: also saw blaming women for sexual aggression, like Janet Jackson
25:56
Speaker 1: the whole Super Bowl thing, accusing women of being divas
26:00
Speaker 1: or bitches like Mariah Carey and Megan Fox. Um. And
26:05
Speaker 1: we've talked a bit about the villainizing of these women
26:08
Speaker 1: in part due to men purposely ruining careers for not
26:11
Speaker 1: playing the submissive ladies that Hollywood once dominated like Weinstein,
26:16
Speaker 1: uh and Michael Bay Right, if you try to get
26:18
Speaker 1: out of that box then, I mean, there was plenty
26:22
Speaker 1: of women who have since come out said I have
26:25
Speaker 1: been ostracized and blacklisted because I would not be victimized
26:30
Speaker 1: by these men. And it's quite interesting because it does
26:33
Speaker 1: it's reminiscent of old Hollywood. Yeah, and there are some
26:37
Speaker 1: people who are finally getting their do like Britney Spears,
26:40
Speaker 1: who has been freed from the controversial Conservatives ship and
26:44
Speaker 1: is starting to get some apologies from the many who
26:46
Speaker 1: exploited her lowest points in her life. Megan Fox being
26:49
Speaker 1: vindicated from her ruined reputation, and there are those who
26:54
Speaker 1: are able to take a step back and take control
26:57
Speaker 1: of those traumatic narratives, such as mar Wilson, who I
27:00
Speaker 1: also loved as a kid. Uh, and some who have
27:03
Speaker 1: been able to continue in their career on their own terms,
27:07
Speaker 1: like Nally Portman and Natasha Leone. You know, I guess
27:10
Speaker 1: we should mention stepping back would be Mary Kayton Ashley,
27:15
Speaker 1: whom you love so dearly. I loved them so much.
27:18
Speaker 1: I could tell them apart they're not identical twins, their
27:21
Speaker 1: firsternal twins would like it was the most annoying habit.
27:26
Speaker 1: I'd be like, oh, that's actually oh Sarah Kate, and
27:28
Speaker 1: everyone's like, please stop if we're watching it. That's an
27:35
Speaker 1: important talent, And of course some credit movements like the
27:37
Speaker 1: Me Too movement and holding the media accountable for the
27:41
Speaker 1: instensitive and often traumatic content in relation to young actresses
27:44
Speaker 1: and female celebrities, But others say has a lot to
27:47
Speaker 1: do with social media as well and how individuals are
27:50
Speaker 1: able to de write the conversation. Again, Uh, the whole
27:55
Speaker 1: like accountability stuff is pretty pretty significant. Whether that is
27:59
Speaker 1: good or bad, some can't tell. In this era of accountability,
28:02
Speaker 1: call outs, call ins, and canceling. Social media can be
28:06
Speaker 1: a slippery slope. We all know this. Many celebrities have
28:09
Speaker 1: already remained largely offline due to being harassed or targeted,
28:13
Speaker 1: and several have vowed to never be online due to
28:15
Speaker 1: the overall privacy issue. That's fair, and there are celebrities
28:19
Speaker 1: who use their social media as a way to connect
28:21
Speaker 1: with fans and the tools keep their fans updated in
28:23
Speaker 1: their lives, which can be good, but some have talked
28:26
Speaker 1: about the overall pressures and anxiety social media causes and
28:30
Speaker 1: how they can no longer participate or have to take
28:32
Speaker 1: extended breaks from it. Um stars like Selena Gomez and
28:36
Speaker 1: Millie Bobby Brown have either taken breaks from social media
28:39
Speaker 1: for their mental health or overall for the safety of others.
28:42
Speaker 1: I know at one point Millie Bobby Brown had one
28:46
Speaker 1: of her pictures taken to become a meme and it
28:49
Speaker 1: was really homophobic. It was very hurtful and she was like,
28:52
Speaker 1: I had nothing to do with this, and it came
28:54
Speaker 1: out it wasn't her, but it was being accredited to
28:56
Speaker 1: her and people were attacking her UM and she had
28:59
Speaker 1: to come off. Of course, you know, we've talked about constantly.
29:02
Speaker 1: How Yeah, we have to be very careful and we're
29:06
Speaker 1: not celebrities, so I couldn't imagine having millions and millions
29:10
Speaker 1: of followers who may turn on you at any moment.
29:15
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and that's why we're big proponents here. I
29:18
Speaker 1: think it's just a good Internet practice, like do your
29:21
Speaker 1: research before you just like tweet something or just find
29:24
Speaker 1: out where it's from, what's going on, uh, because it
29:28
Speaker 1: might not be what you think, and then you might
29:30
Speaker 1: attack someone who really had nothing to do with it nothing. Yeah. Yeah.
29:34
Speaker 1: And also Mersa was telling me about this documentary she
29:38
Speaker 1: watched with Taylor Swift and she was like Taylor as
29:40
Speaker 1: which as a whole like team that's like here we go,
29:44
Speaker 1: we're gonna tweet this out. How we're gonna word it
29:46
Speaker 1: was the best way. And oh, I know, I know
29:51
Speaker 1: a lot of pop stars are having to like they
29:54
Speaker 1: are told they have to in order to release their
29:56
Speaker 1: albums and that things are being held hostage in order
30:00
Speaker 1: to get it done. So there's such a whole layer
30:02
Speaker 1: that it would suck to be on that level celebrity
30:05
Speaker 1: with no power. Yes it would, yes, it would something
30:08
Speaker 1: else that also, sex is being under constant scrutiny by
30:11
Speaker 1: the masses, and it has pushed many celebrities to go dark.
30:15
Speaker 1: Um and we have talked about this a lot when
30:16
Speaker 1: it comes to things like Star Wars and Marvel, like
30:20
Speaker 1: the big branchises where they get, especially women and other
30:24
Speaker 1: marginalized folks, get all of this hate and not really
30:28
Speaker 1: anybody coming to their defense, right in terms of like
30:32
Speaker 1: their co stars, like the studio, and so they leave.
30:37
Speaker 1: UM And yeah, the as we've also discussed, there is
30:42
Speaker 1: a bigger conversation of blots because a lot of it
30:46
Speaker 1: is blots and also just protection from harassment for these
30:50
Speaker 1: marginalized folks. Um, the impact that can have, what we
30:54
Speaker 1: could possibly do because it is a huge problem right Again,
30:58
Speaker 1: of course, what we talked about the fandom toxic fandom
31:00
Speaker 1: and in the gate keeping there's a lot of conversation
31:03
Speaker 1: and that we know that's not always the case, but yeah,
31:06
Speaker 1: we've seen a lot of marginalized women specifically getting targeted
31:11
Speaker 1: just because they just don't like it period and they
31:14
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with creating the character other than acting.
31:17
Speaker 1: And typically they're acting it, actining the hell out of it,
31:20
Speaker 1: and we love it and it hadn't been a standalone,
31:22
Speaker 1: people probably would not never had a second thought. But
31:26
Speaker 1: of course, yeah, we can't have nice things. Yeah. Well,
31:31
Speaker 1: speaking of speaking on social media, uh, the age of
31:35
Speaker 1: social media has led to this idea of anonymity, which
31:39
Speaker 1: allows for individuals who in person maybe they may seem okay,
31:44
Speaker 1: but online feel very embold in Tuesday whatever whenever without recourse. Um.
31:50
Speaker 1: As we have learned through many criticisms of this podcast,
31:53
Speaker 1: this very podcast, and then I used to have to
31:57
Speaker 1: answer these things on YouTube and I'd be like, Hi,
32:00
Speaker 1: have a have a nice day or whatever, and they'd
32:01
Speaker 1: be like wow, someone responded, I'm like yeah, yes, And
32:09
Speaker 1: all of this begs the question is this okay? And
32:14
Speaker 1: what is our responsibility as a fan of something or
32:17
Speaker 1: of someone. Uh. As young actresses and celebrities grow up,
32:22
Speaker 1: the world watches their every move and oftentimes makes these judgments,
32:26
Speaker 1: and they feel the need to do so through their keyboard,
32:29
Speaker 1: thinking they won't be noticed. Um or yeah, even like
32:35
Speaker 1: on a podcast, start through other mediums like this, feel
32:37
Speaker 1: like they can make these criticisms. It's okay. When fans
32:41
Speaker 1: and critics become too familiar with the celebrity, we often
32:44
Speaker 1: forget that they are yes, human there is somebody there
32:48
Speaker 1: and they deserve to be treated as such. Two women
32:50
Speaker 1: podcasters felt the need to call Mellly Bobby Brown a
32:53
Speaker 1: bit because they felt she just seemed that way and again,
32:56
Speaker 1: that's sort of what got this idea, this this whole well,
33:00
Speaker 1: and honestly, there's so much more to that, because we
33:02
Speaker 1: know there's this whole criticue like she just seems like
33:04
Speaker 1: people someone I wouldn't like. She just seems like, that's fine,
33:07
Speaker 1: you don't have to like everybody, But what does this
33:10
Speaker 1: need to call them in such a derogatory manner without
33:13
Speaker 1: knowing them and instead of like just having a moment
33:15
Speaker 1: of like, I wonder, I wonder what kind of pressures
33:18
Speaker 1: there are. I just keep him out of your mouth,
33:20
Speaker 1: don't speak about him. That's all it takes. And speaking
33:23
Speaker 1: of criticism, that kind of just doesn't make sense other
33:26
Speaker 1: than she's a woman that you don't want to see
33:29
Speaker 1: in this I don't know. One of those critics felt
33:32
Speaker 1: carry mulligan was not a good pick to carry out
33:35
Speaker 1: the role of a film fatal character, even though her
33:37
Speaker 1: performance in the movie Promising Young Women was well received
33:41
Speaker 1: and her hitting back at the criticism as a sexist
33:43
Speaker 1: and even agist remark. It was actually encountered with another
33:50
Speaker 1: criticism as uh, saying that there's a right to be
33:54
Speaker 1: able to criticize and critique celebrities appearance and actors appearance
33:58
Speaker 1: if it seems like they are is cast. So I
34:01
Speaker 1: went through, we went through when we were looking at
34:03
Speaker 1: this and speaking about this article, because it was a
34:06
Speaker 1: pretty big deal. K mulgan came out pretty strong. We're like, Okay,
34:09
Speaker 1: we get it. You don't like me as this cast,
34:11
Speaker 1: you don't believe me as being the fatal that's on you.
34:14
Speaker 1: But why do we need to go about this appearance thing? Um?
34:17
Speaker 1: And I even mentioned, like the article that was written
34:20
Speaker 1: and even mentioned well, Margot Robbie was a producer. I'm
34:25
Speaker 1: sure it wasn't intended for her, so obviously like a
34:27
Speaker 1: backhanded criticism about her appearance. Um. And then someone came
34:32
Speaker 1: in defense of that, not saying necessarily that her looks
34:36
Speaker 1: should have been critiqued, but more so that we as
34:39
Speaker 1: the audience, should be able to say this probably wasn't
34:41
Speaker 1: cast right based on appearance, based on looks, which seemed
34:46
Speaker 1: one and the same to me. I kind of understood
34:48
Speaker 1: what they were going with this, but at the same time,
34:50
Speaker 1: but this is this is a little bit ages. Obviously
34:53
Speaker 1: what they wanted was the hot, blonde, tall, young fatal
34:57
Speaker 1: that we have so seen so often. Um and K
35:00
Speaker 1: Mulligan's not that old. You talk about that, he's not
35:04
Speaker 1: that old. So none of that makes sense in itself.
35:09
Speaker 1: But of course they talked about, you know, women wouldn't
35:11
Speaker 1: want to see, which was really odd Chris Hemsworth playing
35:16
Speaker 1: a dowdy poet and I was like, why not happened before?
35:22
Speaker 1: What are you what are you talking about? We've seen
35:24
Speaker 1: Nkumen playing serious roles. We've seen ridiculous comedians being the
35:29
Speaker 1: serious uh filling guy like I mean Jim Carrey won
35:35
Speaker 1: awards for his serious roles, which you would never thought
35:38
Speaker 1: this slapstick comedian could do and even seen as like
35:42
Speaker 1: a leading man. So it kind of like, no, we
35:46
Speaker 1: don't have that. Of course, she talked about the fact
35:48
Speaker 1: that we should be able to say how this critique,
35:51
Speaker 1: so we could open up for more different variations of
35:55
Speaker 1: looks to take leading roles. But I don't feel like
35:58
Speaker 1: that was where they were going with this, especially in
36:00
Speaker 1: critaking that specifically. Yeah, yeah, I think that's Um, we
36:06
Speaker 1: are much more forgiving in general of men, whether it's
36:10
Speaker 1: perceiving them to be a bitch or not. Like women
36:13
Speaker 1: have to be nice and grateful they got this role,
36:16
Speaker 1: and you have to be because we have limited rules
36:20
Speaker 1: for women, like we have historically in Hollywood. And then
36:23
Speaker 1: like I believe the average age for a woman winning
36:26
Speaker 1: an oscar like ten years ago so this might have changed,
36:28
Speaker 1: was twenty six and for a man it was fifty three.
36:31
Speaker 1: So I think we have like and by we, I
36:35
Speaker 1: mean audiences have this idea of for women it is this,
36:40
Speaker 1: and it looks like this, and I can critique her
36:42
Speaker 1: appearance because that's what women is about. For men, it
36:44
Speaker 1: could be they could do anything, but women. And I
37:00
Speaker 1: know I've told the story before. I had a I
37:03
Speaker 1: had a for me, a pretty big break, pretty big
37:05
Speaker 1: role um And the night I was supposed to shoot it,
37:09
Speaker 1: the guy told me that one of the oh, I
37:12
Speaker 1: don't know, one of the crew, he was like, it
37:14
Speaker 1: secks to be in an industry where it's all about
37:16
Speaker 1: your looks, right, And I looked at it and I
37:18
Speaker 1: was like what, And then they gave it to a
37:22
Speaker 1: man because he was like, I think I think it'd
37:24
Speaker 1: be better. I think it'd be more believable for a
37:25
Speaker 1: man at this. I was like, what what? Yeah? And
37:31
Speaker 1: this most like that that you realize, Yeah, this is
37:33
Speaker 1: not an easy industry in itself. Um that it's not
37:37
Speaker 1: set up for just anyone, which is a whole different conversation. Yeah.
37:42
Speaker 1: And then there's this debate of crossing boundaries, which that
37:45
Speaker 1: dude cross the boundary, I would say, but I'm in
37:50
Speaker 1: referencing to celebrities. Is it okay to interrupt a celebrity
37:53
Speaker 1: during a dinner for a photo? Is it okay to
37:56
Speaker 1: film or take pics without their knowledge or permansition? Can
37:59
Speaker 1: we go going to somebody's own without permission for souvenirs?
38:03
Speaker 1: Of course these are more rhetorical questions, but it has
38:06
Speaker 1: become less and less acceptable to cross these boundaries, which
38:09
Speaker 1: is great, But at the same time, we've seen a
38:11
Speaker 1: lot of backlash for those who are private and seek
38:14
Speaker 1: to keep it that way. So people who get upset
38:17
Speaker 1: if you've been waiting at their hotel room and they
38:20
Speaker 1: don't want to stop to talk to you, we get it,
38:23
Speaker 1: like you you are you love them, and you feel
38:26
Speaker 1: like you have this ideal of them. But if they're tired,
38:28
Speaker 1: they're tired and they should have the right to say that. Um.
38:32
Speaker 1: We saw recently Tom Hanks America Sweetheart get very angry
38:37
Speaker 1: when his wife and I don't know exactly what happened
38:40
Speaker 1: when uh Rita Wilson, who was the celebrity as well
38:43
Speaker 1: also his wife, Um, but either tripped got pushed. There
38:48
Speaker 1: was a lot of conversation about what happened, and he
38:50
Speaker 1: lost it in course that people to be like, calm down,
38:52
Speaker 1: back off, and that's his right, that makes sense. But
38:56
Speaker 1: he got a lot of backlash for it too, Like
38:57
Speaker 1: it got both love and hate for that reaction. And
39:02
Speaker 1: it kind of has that point of like, okay, so
39:05
Speaker 1: what is this line how do we make sure we
39:07
Speaker 1: don't cross boundaries? But what is this line of like
39:09
Speaker 1: your celebrity and this is kind of what happens, and
39:12
Speaker 1: I know the kind of maybe this is just making
39:15
Speaker 1: making it up seeing too many movies of like they
39:17
Speaker 1: love it at first and then they hate it, so
39:20
Speaker 1: kind of those two things. Um. And it seems like
39:24
Speaker 1: it sometimes takes drastic and extreme measures for people to
39:27
Speaker 1: realize this, whether it's a tearful request to be given privacy,
39:32
Speaker 1: so being like please leave me alone, You'll have done
39:34
Speaker 1: so much, I like, really harassed us, Please stop to
39:38
Speaker 1: almost to endangering their lives, um and being put in
39:42
Speaker 1: these situations that are so extreme that that's the final
39:46
Speaker 1: point of like, hey, you almost killed us tonight, Please
39:50
Speaker 1: don't do that. Yeah. Yeah, it's that level of fan
39:52
Speaker 1: entitlement we've talked about before, where it's some it's kind
39:56
Speaker 1: of bizarre to me, but it's like this idea that
40:00
Speaker 1: they owe us something, right, we put you here, right,
40:05
Speaker 1: and then it's sort of the price of your fame almost.
40:08
Speaker 1: It's like you won't You're rich and famous, so I
40:10
Speaker 1: get to do whatever and I'll never forget. I saw
40:12
Speaker 1: his interview with Jennifer Lawrence a couple of years ago,
40:14
Speaker 1: and she was talking about visiting her family and she's like, well,
40:16
Speaker 1: we had to put up all the you know, trash
40:18
Speaker 1: bags out of the windows. And I was like, wait,
40:19
Speaker 1: what's like, Oh, yeah, so we had to put up
40:21
Speaker 1: every time I visit them, we put up trash bags
40:23
Speaker 1: with the windows so they can't take pictures. She was
40:25
Speaker 1: talking about like trying to explain that to the young
40:28
Speaker 1: people in her family, UM, and just howppens are Like
40:34
Speaker 1: that sounds terrible to me. That sounds awful. Um. We've
40:38
Speaker 1: also talked about Paris social relationships a little bit before,
40:41
Speaker 1: and here we can easily see how this can be good,
40:44
Speaker 1: can be really great, or it can be really really awful. UM.
40:48
Speaker 1: And as we said before, fans are powerful and deserve respect. Um.
40:52
Speaker 1: Because yes, the power of fandom is no joke. You know,
40:55
Speaker 1: we love some healthy fan girls over here. UM. And
41:00
Speaker 1: it can really really make things happen that is war. Sure,
41:03
Speaker 1: the Brittany Stands are a force and we're able to
41:07
Speaker 1: keep the conversation alive when so many people had written
41:09
Speaker 1: it off around around Britney Spears and conservatorship. Um. But
41:13
Speaker 1: it can also be a negative. Incidents where fans feel
41:16
Speaker 1: but traded by celebrity can be a real storm. UM.
41:20
Speaker 1: Think of Hailey Bieber. After she and Justin got together,
41:24
Speaker 1: those who were teams Selena have nonstopped her, asked her
41:28
Speaker 1: for just being with him. We've talked about that before, UM,
41:30
Speaker 1: to the point both she and Justin have repeatedly asked
41:33
Speaker 1: her fans to stop and how it's been affecting them both. Right,
41:38
Speaker 1: And we've seen that in different celebrities, like if they
41:40
Speaker 1: don't like the person you're with, they may go after you.
41:43
Speaker 1: Of course, there's some conversations of like, yeah, but the
41:47
Speaker 1: son that's like this is dangerous. This isn't unusual circumstance.
41:51
Speaker 1: We have questions kind of all of that, but that
41:55
Speaker 1: I digress. I won't give any examples of that, but um,
41:59
Speaker 1: but yeah, there's a lot when it comes to all
42:03
Speaker 1: of these responsibilities and how we see celebrities in itself,
42:08
Speaker 1: and especially when it comes to women, the expectations that
42:11
Speaker 1: we hold, and it kind of makes you think, what
42:13
Speaker 1: does the future hold? Is? Is the future going to
42:16
Speaker 1: be better for the next generation of stars and celebrities?
42:19
Speaker 1: And yeah, with the new mediums come new levels of stardom,
42:23
Speaker 1: from YouTube stars to TikTok stars to whatever the next
42:27
Speaker 1: level maybe Twitch. I guess Twitch is already there. We
42:31
Speaker 1: are seeing a whole different level of celebrity and some
42:34
Speaker 1: experts have already begun their studies in these types of celebrity.
42:38
Speaker 1: And an Insider Or article written by Rachel E. Green's band,
42:40
Speaker 1: she talks with psychologists and about the up and coming
42:43
Speaker 1: stars of TikTok and the expectations and in the article,
42:46
Speaker 1: Greenspan rights experts have warned that these young influencers will
42:51
Speaker 1: face the typical hurdles of child fame, but with the
42:53
Speaker 1: additional complication of real time social media surveillance by millions
42:58
Speaker 1: and algorithmically programmed addiction to the instant gratification of a
43:02
Speaker 1: never ending barrage of notifications, which is my nightmare. I
43:06
Speaker 1: know those notifications to go way. I think we can't
43:10
Speaker 1: figure this out for you, snap. So we've already talked
43:14
Speaker 1: about the damages how early, about early childhood stardom and
43:18
Speaker 1: what that can cause, but added that the immediateness of
43:21
Speaker 1: social media, the total access provided by the stars and
43:25
Speaker 1: by the fans, like they ere to tell you immediately
43:28
Speaker 1: if they like or don't like something yep, and it's
43:31
Speaker 1: the Internet, so it doesn't go away, right, And this
43:34
Speaker 1: new level of stardom has brought out a new generation
43:36
Speaker 1: of hopefuls who are waiting for their time to go viral.
43:39
Speaker 1: Greenspan continues the algorithms that underlie practically every social media
43:43
Speaker 1: service today forced us to compete for visibility. These teenagers
43:47
Speaker 1: may now feel themselves an extraordinary bind, competing against each
43:51
Speaker 1: other and the news feed algorithms in order to maintain visibility,
43:54
Speaker 1: a competition in which only the social media services succeed.
43:58
Speaker 1: The concept of viral social media fame has become so
44:01
Speaker 1: ingrained in our society that it's almost natural for people
44:04
Speaker 1: to hope their next post will take off, and some
44:08
Speaker 1: of the newly made celebrities have already learned about the
44:12
Speaker 1: backlash of fame. Many under the cancel culture a narrative
44:16
Speaker 1: due to the extreme or impulsive natures of their post
44:19
Speaker 1: have learned this lesson and have seen it and have
44:21
Speaker 1: experienced it um but they are also learning how to
44:24
Speaker 1: handle it. Greenspan continues. Many influencers have already, perhaps unintentionally
44:29
Speaker 1: discovered what experts say is the best way to protect
44:31
Speaker 1: oneself against the dangers of fame. By using influence to
44:34
Speaker 1: help the world and raise awareness about causes you're passionate about,
44:37
Speaker 1: you're actually establishing a deeper sense of who you are
44:40
Speaker 1: as a person, right and I am interested to see
44:43
Speaker 1: what the statistics will look like. We again did not
44:46
Speaker 1: talk about reality stars and young stars, because there has
44:50
Speaker 1: been this conversation about uh the sexualization of young young
44:55
Speaker 1: girls in these videos, as well as infantilizing some of
44:59
Speaker 1: the girls who were no longer younger. Jojo Sawa was
45:03
Speaker 1: one of those who got criticisms on both ends when
45:06
Speaker 1: she was growing up and but yet still kept the
45:09
Speaker 1: ponytail to finally coming out and finding relationships and growing
45:14
Speaker 1: in ourselves and being criticized for that. Like that, it's
45:17
Speaker 1: just a whole new level of stardom that we've never
45:20
Speaker 1: seen that is produced again by the pressures of oftentimes
45:24
Speaker 1: family and society. That part has seemingly not gone away. Yeah,
45:30
Speaker 1: and I think that the Internet. I mean, we talked
45:34
Speaker 1: about it all the time on here, and Bridget does
45:35
Speaker 1: such a great job of breaking it down. There's many,
45:38
Speaker 1: many beautiful things about the Internet, but in a lot
45:41
Speaker 1: of ways, like those comment sections can be just like
45:44
Speaker 1: every toxic thing in our society amplified. So we're already
45:49
Speaker 1: getting as young girls all of these really harmful messages
45:54
Speaker 1: about our body and how he should look and how
45:56
Speaker 1: we should behave And then if you multiply that by
46:00
Speaker 1: a social media I can only imagine being young and
46:05
Speaker 1: absorbing that and seeing that, right. You know. The double
46:09
Speaker 1: edged sword to this is we have more body positive influencers,
46:14
Speaker 1: and that's beautiful and I love to see it. Half
46:16
Speaker 1: the time they're defending their body and their videos because
46:19
Speaker 1: there's so many that still continue to attack them and
46:22
Speaker 1: continue to really harass them. So it feels kind of like, yes,
46:26
Speaker 1: this is great, but at the same time, oh my god,
46:28
Speaker 1: they still have to keep going through all of this
46:30
Speaker 1: and still have to be uh in this position to
46:32
Speaker 1: take this kind of abuse. Um, it's interesting. I'm interested
46:36
Speaker 1: in seeing how this goes. I think what we really
46:40
Speaker 1: wanted to do about this and I didn't get to it,
46:42
Speaker 1: Like the honest title was going to be the villainization
46:46
Speaker 1: of young teenage stars, but we couldn't even find enough
46:49
Speaker 1: articles because there are so many other things that seemed
46:52
Speaker 1: to be traumatizing and triggering for a lot of these celebrities, um,
46:56
Speaker 1: that we haven't considered. Of course, you know this goes
46:59
Speaker 1: into that, like, well, at least they have all of
47:01
Speaker 1: these basic necessities and all these things, and most of
47:03
Speaker 1: the people were talking about our young white girls. Yeah,
47:08
Speaker 1: and that's unfortunate because we don't even we have to
47:11
Speaker 1: go climb a whole new level of toxicity when it
47:15
Speaker 1: comes to the black young black girls who are going
47:18
Speaker 1: through so much that they don't even get the chance
47:21
Speaker 1: to become that half the time because of the racism
47:24
Speaker 1: that is so staunch and so heavy here. So we
47:27
Speaker 1: know this is that level of conversation. But there's a
47:30
Speaker 1: lot to consider when we see what is happening, especially
47:34
Speaker 1: for myself as a social worker who worked with young kids,
47:37
Speaker 1: seeing this is such a problem in such a big way.
47:41
Speaker 1: But at the same time, you hope it changes, but
47:44
Speaker 1: historically it doesn't seem to me. Yeah. Yeah, And I
47:47
Speaker 1: think a part of this it goes back to something
47:51
Speaker 1: you said earlier, Samantha's it's very clear that we again
47:55
Speaker 1: as a society, view women as expendable, and we kind
47:59
Speaker 1: of their misery is our entertainment and that's fine, and
48:04
Speaker 1: we feel very entitled as a society. Again, I'm not
48:08
Speaker 1: speaking about Smith the Night, but you know, we as
48:10
Speaker 1: a society, I feel very entitled to cause harm, to
48:14
Speaker 1: like really judge everything they do and then throw them
48:17
Speaker 1: away when they experience any sort of trauma or anything
48:20
Speaker 1: that doesn't fit and how we think they should behave
48:23
Speaker 1: and how they should look. Right. Yeah, and I mean
48:25
Speaker 1: that's that's up to like even Harvey Weinstein, like the
48:28
Speaker 1: fact that went on so long, that's pretty telling. Yeah. Yeah,
48:33
Speaker 1: so there is a lot too, There's a lot to
48:35
Speaker 1: um back here, Yes, Yes, there is um well listeners,
48:41
Speaker 1: as always, if there's anything you want us to follow
48:44
Speaker 1: up on and here um if there is resources, we
48:48
Speaker 1: haven't shut it out. If you have a favorite Mary
48:51
Speaker 1: Kate and Ashley movie, like, you can't let us know
48:55
Speaker 1: if you wanna talk to me about musicals, I don't
48:57
Speaker 1: think anyone. I don't think anyone to reach out about
49:01
Speaker 1: Mary Kate actually, but you could prove us a wrong
49:03
Speaker 1: wrong listeners. Our email is Stuff Video mom Stuff at
49:07
Speaker 1: I hurt mea dot com. You can find us on
49:09
Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at stuff
49:11
Speaker 1: Whenever sold you. Thanks it's always to our super producer
49:14
Speaker 1: Christina with bonus thanks this week to researcher Joey and
49:18
Speaker 1: our executive producer Maya. It's really badass group of y'all
49:22
Speaker 1: are the heroes helped us with this so much. Shout out, Yes,
49:26
Speaker 1: all the shoutouts and thanks to you for listening. Softener
49:30
Speaker 1: till you protection by Hurt Radio. For more podcasts from
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