Latest / Repcolite Home Improvement Show / Jean Stoffer & Grace Start Interview: The Established Home, Kitchens, and Old Houses

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Jean Stoffer & Grace Start Interview: The Established Home, Kitchens, and Old Houses · Repcolite Home Improvement Show

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hey, everyone. Thanks for tuning in.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: You're listening to Home in Progress by Repco Light Paints,
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: sponsored by Benjamin Moore.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I'm Dan Hanson, and I'm.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Really excited about today's show because joining me are Jean
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Stouffer and her daughter, Grace Start, the mother-daughter design team
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: behind Grand Rapids-based Jean Stouffer Design. Now, you may know
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: them from their television show on the Magnolia Network, The
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Established Home. Maybe you know them from Stouffer Home, their
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: store here in Grand Rapids. Maybe you know them from
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: their cabinetry line. Jean became known nationally for her kitchen designs,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: and Grace is her design partner and leads the firm's
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: design team. They're also authors. Jean wrote Establishing Home, and
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: together they've written the children's book, We Are Home When
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: We're Together. We'll talk about those along with another book
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: that they've got coming. But we're going to cover a
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: ton of ground before we get.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: To all of that.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: We're going to talk about how they learned the work,
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: what happened when they started working together. We're going to
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: talk about the decisions that they made, about growing a
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: business while raising their families. And then we'll get into
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: older houses, you know, the surprises that you can find
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: behind the walls and how things that you can't change,
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: you know, in the home itself, how sometimes those things
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: can lead to your best ideas. And of course, we're
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: going to talk kitchens. So a ton of stuff coming up.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Jean and Grace, I'm so excited to have you both here.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: And I think, Jean, let's just start with you and
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: start talking about how it all began. You know, I
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: know you studied business and you started on the administrative
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: end or side of a design firm and As you
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: were watching, working from that aspect of the business and
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: watching all the design happening around you, what drew you
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: into the design world itself outside of the work you
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: were doing?
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: Well, I think it was a combination of my husband
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: and I owning our first home and actually being in
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: charge of its surroundings and also seeing what the people
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: that I worked for did. I'd design had not really
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: been on my radar um it wasn't a thing that
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: was a value for my parents so much as for
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: them it was a home was to be warm and
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: inviting and bringing people in to feel connected and accepted
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: and stuff it wasn't so much about what it looked
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: like so this opened a world of like wow homes
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: can be beautiful and warm and inviting and then yeah
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: at it was a good time because my husband Dale
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: and I had just bought our first place. So I
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: was like, Ooh, I could do something here. So I,
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: I was fascinated enough to the point to want to
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: pursue it actually as a career. And I started out,
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: you know, I got a tiny bit of education after
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: I graduated from college, just learning how to draw. There
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: was no computer drafting at the time. So I just
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: physically had a board and, took a class at the
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: community college to learn how to, how to draw. But
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: it was mainly just learning by observation and study and
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: looking at photos on a deep level and trying to
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: understand mechanics. And eventually just, I started out just being
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: mainly a decorator, you know, picking out furniture and wall
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: colors and things. And then when, My husband and I
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: moved to a house that needed a kitchen, seriously needed
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: a kitchen. The one was falling apart before our very eyes.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: Then I became interested in kitchen design and that really
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: opened a door to the biggest, probably the most influential
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: part of my career is custom kitchen and bath design.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: And it's kind of where I stayed for probably 25
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: years on my own.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: That came about because of that house that you moved into.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: You just saw the need for the kitchen. What about that?
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, just, I know kitchens, it's like, it's the
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: hub of the home. You know, if that doesn't work,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: so many things don't work. I mean, was it something
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: like that that made you realize that's the thing? Or
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: what made.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Kitchens stand out besides the fact that you needed one?
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: Well, it was an interesting era. So this was over
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: 30 years ago. And it was just the beginning of
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: the era of people thinking of the kitchen as a
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: room that that wasn't just utility, where it could be
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: a gathering space that was beautiful. And I really wanted
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: that for my home. And I was pursuing trying to
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: understand what it could be beyond what American kitchens were
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: at the point. And I found what I was looking
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: for when I found foreign magazines, particularly English or British kitchens.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: They had better kitchens.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: It was a different way of thinking about it. It
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: was more of a gathering space. It was like a
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: keeping room concept. It had furniture in it. There was
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: a coziness to it and a beauty to it that
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: we just had, you know, like boxes screwed up on walls.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: You know? And there was something just, oh, like intriguing
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: and inviting about the whole thing. And so... I set
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: out to try to figure out what it was, the
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: particulars of what that design was that made it so
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: special and different. And so I sat down at my
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: drafting table along with these British Kitchen magazines and a
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: magnifying glass and got down to what the details were
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: and then drew it and found a cabinet maker. That
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: was a hard part. to make it for me because
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: it was flush inside cabinetry, which was not something that
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: was out there at the time at all. Um, and
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: so I found a cabinet maker that would do it,
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: installed it in my own kitchen and it became like, wow,
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: what is this? This is amazing. And it kind of,
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: that just ignited something for me. So this was, this
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: was a moment in kitchen design actually, because Just in
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: the early 90s, which is when this took place, was
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: the first time that a manufacturer, an appliance manufacturer, it
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: was actually Sub-Zero, came up with a concept of how
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: to not just put a wood panel on a fridge,
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: because that had been around, but to put a wood
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: panel on an appliance that literally disappeared. You didn't see
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: its grill. You didn't see its hardware. It wasn't sticking
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: out any further than anything else. It was 100% disguised.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: And it was so exciting to design with that. And
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: so the combination of this new appliance technology, people's interest
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: in the kitchen in a new way beyond utility, and
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: my interest in it, I think, all kind of combined
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: at one time And it just started something really, really
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: different and exciting.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: There was a contest. Tell me about that contest.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: A few years later, I got a job actually to
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: design a kitchen for someone. I'd been doing it now for,
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: I don't know how many, two, three, four, five years,
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: something like that. And I'd heard about this kitchen design
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: contest that SubZero was putting on. And I took my
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: little pictures on my 35 millimeter camera with this 1938
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: reproduction kitchen. And I think it became a winner. And
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: I think just because it was so different, which is
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: what a lot of contests love, is something that's different.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Something different.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: And it was... I got to meet people at this
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: contest celebration that was held at a resort in Arizona
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: that I had studied their work. I'd like learned actually
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: quite a bit from them. Mick DiGiulio out of Chicago
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: was an example of that. Just, it was, it was
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: seeing in my world icons of design, meeting them in person.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: I just.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: And having them talk about your work, right?
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: I mean.
• 8:24
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Right. That's crazy. Crazy. Yes.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, all right.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: So that's where the kitchen thing came out. Grace, let's
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: bring you into this. Now you initially pursued teaching, right?
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: And what drew you from that towards the world of
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: design and then the possibility of working with your mom
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: as that business was starting to grow?
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: So I obviously grew up with my mom doing everything
• 8:53
  Speaker 5: that she just described and having meetings and samples and
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: doing not only the renovation she's talking about, which is
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: when I was too young to remember, but then a
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: secondary kitchen renovation in our own home. So seeing it
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: up close and personal, but it was never something that
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: I saw myself doing it at all. It was just
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: something that my mom did, which was great. I had
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: nothing against it.
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: It was just not, yeah, not even in my.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Mind at all.
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: And then I went to Calvin college and and met
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: my husband there was studying education, got my first job
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: at Zeeland Christian and taught preschool there. Um, during that
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: time we had our first child and then we're expecting
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: our second, we bought our first home. So similar story,
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: seeing home for the first time through it being your
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: own home and your own space.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: Um, and I thought this is actually pretty cool. This
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: line of work is actually pretty interesting.
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: And at the same time, my mom moved to Michigan
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: from the Chicago area. So the proximity was closer. My
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: interest was peaked and I had a growing family, which
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: that was something too, that I saw required a little
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: bit of flexibility in work. And I thought maybe I
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: will ask my mom if she would be willing to
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: hire me part-time for a flexible job, helping her with
• 10:21
  Speaker 5: anything that she needs help with. And she took my
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: inexperienced self and gave me a job.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: And what did that all look like? Best decision ever.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: That just beats me to my point. What did you
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: guys find as you started working together? I mean, anything
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: surprise you one way or the other? I mean, I'm
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: not looking for dirt here, but I guess I'm.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: More looking for good stuff.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: What I think we discovered is At least back then,
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: I think Grace is really developing into a designer that
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: can handle any aspect of the entire home. But back then,
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: what I discovered is that she was very good at
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: the part of design that I actually didn't feel very
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: good at. And that was the soft furnishings and more
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: subjective design like the paint shades and textiles and things.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: I My personality and my gifting, I think, really fell
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: into a sweet spot with kitchens because there are right
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: ways and wrong ways to do things. It's a very
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: analytical type of design. It's down to fractions of inch.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: It's mechanicals. It's things that you have to draw to
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: make sure it's done correctly, like integrating appliances and lighting schedules.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: And I loved that. And so the other things that
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: were like, oh, I don't really like how the way
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: that flower looks on that fabric. For a client, you know,
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: find me a different fabric that's just like this, but
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: where the flower is bigger or something. It felt very
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: subjective and I didn't feel good at it at all.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: Yet Grace was very good at it and very confident
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: with it, even even early on, you know.
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: As she was learning things. Even when it shouldn't have been.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: That's always the beautiful.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: Part of things.
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: I also think there was a missing element to your
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: business in that way because she was obviously extremely talented,
• 12:30
  Speaker 5: winning all these design awards, being recognized for her work,
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: but being a one-woman business, to do the whole house
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: and to actually finish the job and take a photograph
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: and say, this is 100% my work, um, wasn't the case.
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: It was always relying on somebody else to pick paint colors,
• 12:51
  Speaker 5: a designer coming in, basically partnering with you. So the
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: end result, I think couldn't be fully, I guess a
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: kitchen you could take credit for, but like you can
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: showcase your work so much better if you do the
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: whole project versus, um, just the kitchen. And so that
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: plus social media is when we were working together that
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: just things exploded.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: What gave you this confidence that you said you probably
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: shouldn't have even had right from the get-go?
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Is that just who you are? You just come in
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: with this, I own this place, I'll do whatever.
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: I think we both suffer from like, how hard could
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: it be? Let's do it.
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: And that's kind of, I think, I mean, maybe you
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: could There's an aspect of that, which is foolishness, right?
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: Of saying you can do something that you just can't do.
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: And there's an aspect of, let's just try this and
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: let's do one.
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: Step at a time and see how it goes.
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: What's the worst that could happen? And I think that
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: is in business. You kind of have to have that,
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: that what if let's do it mentality. Otherwise you're never
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: going to do anything different.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Got to be willing to risk. Yeah.
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: I think, um, for whatever reason, we both have, I guess,
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: what maybe people would call an entrepreneurial bent is that
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: it's actually exciting to try things that we don't know
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: much about. It's exciting to try to learn and to
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: give it a try. And I think part of that
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: is that we don't really have this sense of like
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: okay what are all the pitfalls what do we have
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: to be careful of we we for better or worse
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: we don't really have that we've we've had people now
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: that are in the business that are helping us run
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: it that are much more adept at that than we
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: are which have been a very good guardrail for us
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: but back in the early stages when it was just
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: me or just grace and and me it was much
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: more what could go wrong you know like let's just
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: give it a try so i I think it is
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: a mindset.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Now, Jean, there's something really great in your book, Establishing Home,
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: that I ran into. It just struck me as I
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: was reading it. You talked in there and on any
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: number of interviews all over the place. You talk about
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: how you don't regret turning down career opportunities.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: When your kids were young.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: And looking at the business now and your family now,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: there's a perspective that you couldn't have had back then
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: when you were making those choices.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: You know, what did those decisions feel like when you
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: were making them?
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: And now that you look back on them, you feel
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: like that was absolutely the way to go?
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, um, in the moment making these decisions to
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: turn back, turn down in what appeared to be at
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: the time, incredible opportunities that, you know, I was looking
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: at thinking, oh my gosh, this could just catapult the
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: business to a place I would have never imagined. But, um,
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: I'd had young children at home. I think my youngest
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: was maybe two years old at that time and then
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: three olders. And so I knew that had to be
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: a matter of prayer. I knew that I couldn't just
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: write down on a list pros and cons and expect
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: to come up with an answer that would affect, that
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: would be good into generations, you know, because it could
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: potentially affect that. So I knew I had to go
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: to the Lord with that and ask for help and
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: And he, it took a little while, but he clearly
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: revealed the answer to me, which I talk about in
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: the book. It's a really cool way that he revealed
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: the answer. And looking back at it, I don't have, well,
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: you know, to know that the Lord was the one
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: to guide that answer is a great way to not have.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Regrets, number one. Absolutely.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, because. even if things don't turn out
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: sunshine and roses, you still know that it was the
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: right decision. It doesn't mean that like you obeyed the
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: Lord and therefore everything's going to be amazing going forward.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: It doesn't.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: That's not what he says. He just says, listen, it's
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: my way. It's the best way. And so it was
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: the best way. And I am so thankful for it.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: I've had no regrets. I have intact faith. really good
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: relationships with all four of the kids. I know who
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: they are. I know the people they are. I was
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: involved at every stage of their lives. Not in a weird, like,
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: you know, overbearing way.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: You don't have cameras all over their house or anything
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: like that. Absolutely not. Standards here.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: But just, you know, present, present emotionally, present physically. And
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: as a result, I think, honestly, that's the foundation for
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: for the relationships that we have that have been so
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: strong that made it possible for us to be in
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: business together.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Because that's a big ask, really.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I mean, a family business only
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: works if the family works.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: So, Grace, listening to all of that, and you've heard it,
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: you know, because it's in the book. I know your
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: mom's talked about it. How does that affect, you know,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: and how did it affect your choices?
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's interesting how much you didn't know growing up, though.
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: I mean, there were things that you find out later
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: that your parents were talking about and deciding that, you know,
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: I was just an oblivious kid on my way to
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: soccer practice, not really caring about that. So I think
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: it's a cool testimony after the fact to hear what
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: was going on and the decisions that were being made
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: and the sacrifices that were being made in order to
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: And I feel really similar with my husband now and
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: the decisions that we're making and, you know, what you
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: include the kids on. And you don't burden them with
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: big decisions, but you put them first.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: That's the thing that lasts. You know, that's the thing
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: that goes. You said it, Jean. You're making a decision
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: that could impact generations. And that's a lot of weight
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: when you think about it.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: We all have these decisions to make. It doesn't matter
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: if people... know us you know publicly or we have
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: something quote big in this world that we're doing it
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: doesn't matter we all have very specific decisions to make
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: that are hard and that have to be prayed through
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: thought through so that we can do what's right put
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: others first which is a very difficult thing because it's
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: not natural But it is possible with the grace of
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: the Lord. You know, he set the example.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: For us.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: So it's, it's a really wonderful thing to, I don't know,
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: share in that.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Well, and like, you know, and it, how do I
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: even say that? Cause there is no given, there's no, no,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: there's no guarantees. You've experienced, you know, a lot of
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: good that came out of this. Um, the, the things
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: you've given up, you've gotten a lot back, you know,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: a lot of it's come back. That doesn't mean it's
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: going to happen for all of us. You know, that's
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: sometimes God just, we give up and there's another path,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: but still like when you're impacting people, you know, especially
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: when it's your little group of people that is never,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: no matter what you end up getting back or not
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: getting back professionally or whatever you want to economically or
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: any of that, the relationship part of it.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's a win and it's always going to
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: be a win.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: Always going to be a win.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: And peace. Yep.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: So, all right.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: So the business, you know, expands beyond designing homes. It includes,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: you've got a store now, you've got cabinetry line. How
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: did you decide that it was time to take those steps?
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: You know, you started with the kitchen thing.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: How did you get to the online store and all
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: of those parts of things?
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm going to blame Grace for a lot of this.
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: Blame. Blame.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: That's how she was raised, you know. Yeah.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: Who raised her? But when we started doing the full
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: service design, we realized that there was an element. There
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: were several elements. Number one, we needed to have decor
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: to finish our projects. And also our team was growing
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: a little bit. We were working out of my home,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: sitting around our kitchen table. It was a small house.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: contractors would come, vendors, clients, you know, it was Grand
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Central Station. And I had samples under beds and, you know, like,
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: and so we were thinking maybe we needed some office space.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: But a big piece of our business has always been
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: and probably always will be, I hope, cabinetry, kitchen design
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: and cabinetry. So there has to be some place where
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: people can see the cabinetry in person, feel it, touch.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: It, open, close.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: So we're thinking, okay, if we get a home store,
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: we can have in stock stuff to decorate homes with
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: at the end of our projects. We can have a
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: display for the kitchen so people can see the cabinetry.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: We can have an office space. We can have a
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: meeting room where clients and contractors and vendors can come.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: So let's just do the whole thing all in one space.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: And that's when we opened the store on Wealthy Street.
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: And I had to keep telling myself many months in
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: when the retail piece of it was not paying the bills. Like,
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: this is more than just, this is not, it's our office.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: It's our showroom. It's, you know, it's not going to
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: equal the retail sales, the profit from that are not
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: going to pay for this. I know this, but it
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: was a.
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: It was hard for her.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: I had to keep telling myself. And then... And not
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: too long into that, we realized that, you know, we
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: had a national following at that time. People wanted to
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: buy stuff. We had no means to sell it to
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: them until we went online.
• 23:17
  Speaker 5: And they would see stuff in the store if we
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: posted about the store and say, how can I buy that?
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: And we're like, well, come to Michigan and you can
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: buy that.
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: And people were like, when are you going to be online?
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: When is this going to be online? So it was
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: kind of.
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: A request from the audience that things move.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: More online.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Wow. And that's been very successful.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was very, but that's a whole thing. Retail
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: is a, yeah. Yeah.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: It's funny.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: Oh, go ahead.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: No, no, you go ahead. Mine is ridiculous.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Well, I think that the more important thing during the
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: same period of time was our, also our realization that
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: our actual kitchen design work and the cabinetry that we
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: were having made was really what people were interested in.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: We needed to have a vehicle to be able to
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: get it, that design, that level of design, our cabinets
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: out into the nation, not just our little world in
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: Chicago and Grand Rapids. And that really was the biggest
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: piece of trying to figure out how to do a
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: typically very in-person mode of business into something virtual. And
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: when COVID forced us all to have everything virtual and
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: to have no contact with humans, we just put head down.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: And it was actually Grace's idea to start a business
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: that could offer this virtually. And it took us months
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: to really figure out how to do it. But that
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: idea of Grace's which I at the beginning was like,
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: that's never going to work. Just FYI.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: And it's turned out to be probably the most important
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: piece of our whole brand. And the thing that we
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: are uniquely suited to do well in the industry. And
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: it's very exciting. And now we have a couple of
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: brand partners like designers that have Stover Home Cabinetry showrooms,
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: one in the Miami area and one just outside New
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: York City in New Jersey with some very valuable partners
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: who have loved to specify our cabinetry designers in the field.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: And we are excited, you know, to be having designers.
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: Now we have many partners, two with showrooms, but many
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: that use us across the country repeatedly. And then Grace's
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: it's not been recent, but her most recent big idea
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: that's really taken off is developing a vanity line that
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: people can actually put into their cart and get a
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: made-to-order vanity that is beautiful and well-built and according, like
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: the finish that they want, the size they want, the
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: design they want. And I think it was the success
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: of building out Stouffer Home Cabinetry that made the vanity
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: line seem like, oh yeah, we could do that. But Grace,
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: you should talk about from a designer standpoint, looking for
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: vanities and what you experienced. Yeah, sure.
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: So Really, when we were designing a bathroom, you could
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: either do full custom design, design a vanity from scratch
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: and have someone make it, or you could go to
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: restoration hardware, you could go to maybe pottery barn, and
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: you could really get very specific designs that didn't really
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: align with our as British as possible look.
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: That we wanted to have.
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: And just standing behind the quality, so our cabinetry has
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: a catalyzed finish on it, so the the paint finish
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: as you would care about is very very durable um
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: and so we were like okay what what are five
• 27:26
  Speaker 5: different designs we could offer in three inch increments um
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: and really get that that customer who wants a really
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: nice bathroom vanity but doesn't want to go full custom
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: and we i was like that would be a really
• 27:37
  Speaker 5: nice resource for us in the design world i would
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: use that and so i'm sure there's hundreds of people
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: out there that would use that too and um And
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: now we have a whole line of vanities and people
• 27:49
  Speaker 5: love that.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: So was that an idea like, Jean, this one wasn't
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: an idea that you said, that's not going to work, FYI.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: At this point, you were right with what she was thinking.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: That got the full seal of approval.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: It did, immediately.
• 28:05
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: So along the way, I'm not sure how the timeline works,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: but obviously along the way.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: You're doing all of these things.
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: How does this television show come about established home on Magnolia?
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: You know, how did that come up? When did that
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: come up in this grand scheme of things? And just that,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: that had to be a whole crazy experience.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: It was, um, the way it came about, you know, it's,
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: it's so interesting just to know the different data points
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: that happen at certain times that you have no real
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: control over, but it all adds up sometimes in our, um,
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: My son, John, has always been our photographer, and he's
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: been asked to do some really interesting things, including shoot
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: for the Magnolia Journal a couple of times, meeting Joanna
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: and Chip Keynes and going down to Waco and shooting
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: for them. One of their photos was on one of
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: the covers of Magnolia Journal. And at the same time,
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: like Grace mentioned earlier, Instagram was taking off for design,
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: and we were... We caught an early wave with that.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: So our designs were out there that people were aware of.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: And Chip and Joanna were given the opportunity to have
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: their own network. And so they had this vision for
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: what they wanted it to be. And they wanted it
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: to be time well spent, encouraging TV, like intact family.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: feel-good TV inspiring TV and so she was on the
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: hunt you know just looking around what was out there
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: and I was aware that she was following me because
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: every once in a while she dropped a little comment
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: in and when one of her people called and said
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: what they were working on and would we be interested
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: in just talking to them. It was exciting and like
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: a lot of dots connecting. And so we were given
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: the opportunity to do one show, one episode. And it
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: was a pilot for a show that if it was
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: received well, they would maybe make a whole series about it.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: It was where they would take, it was, It was
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: called Point of View, A Designer's Profile. So each episode
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: followed a different designer in a project that they were
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: working on. So we were the pilot and the project
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: that we followed for that was my home, which we
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: call in Madison, the kitchen. So that it was enough
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: for them to see kind of how Grace and I
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: worked together, how we related to each other, what our
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: projects were like, and After the episode was edited, they
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: reached out and said, we'd like to do a whole
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: show with you.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: A show that's your show.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: Right, right.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: So did you have to come up with the, how
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: did this part work? You just tell them, I'm working
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: on this project, I'm working on that project, and then
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: they come in and they'll follow you and film that?
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Did you have to plan specific projects for the show?
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Did they have an idea they wanted you to accomplish?
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we had to have eight projects that could be
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: followed simultaneously.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Simultaneously.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: Simultaneously. And they had to be of a very specific
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: scope that the whole project could be started and completed
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: within eight, nine months. And it had to be in
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: a geographic area that we could easily manage following every
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: single one of them. And it had to be approved by...
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: our clients, the contractors, the production company and the network.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: And let me, we learned a lot.
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: It was a lot. And it, it was, um, uh,
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: just a lot of filming.
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: I mean, you see the episodes and they're each 42
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: minutes or something like that of, of like runtime. Um,
• 32:25
  Speaker 5: but yeah, we would spend days and days and days
• 32:28
  Speaker 5: and days filming each year. Um, and then that would get,
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: get condensed down into these eight beautiful episodes.
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: Um, but it was just.
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: So much time dedicated to that. We had to take
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: a step back from the full custom business and have
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: designers come in and really aid.
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: Us with all our, our other customers. Um, and yeah, Yeah,
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: it was just, it was a lot.
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: And then you couldn't share anything about those projects as
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: they were happening.
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: It all was embargoed for after the reveal.
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: But with not a lot of assets to show, so
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: we'd have to kind of look back on what.
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: We took during that time. Like photos that we took during, yeah.
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: Then everything would air within each week. An episode would
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: come out and then we'd be already filming the next episode.
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: So it was just.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: A lot of a lot of projects of the same type.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: And so it was we we learned a lot. We
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: have a lot of appreciation for people who do do this.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: We understood that our type of business, this full home
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: design of of a scale that is, you know, where
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: it's custom, it's it takes a lot longer than eight,
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: nine months to And so after three years of doing it,
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: I think we realized we couldn't go on any longer
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: and have the type of business that we really wanted
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: to foster. And I think the network also realized there
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: were a lot of things changing with television. Our show
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: was very expensive to produce because it took 120 days
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: for each season of filming.
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: Of filming.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: All in one chunk or did you get breaks in between?
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: Well, over that eight, nine, well, over a year, over
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: a year was 120 days for each season. So, yeah,
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: it really it was worth it. I don't regret it
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: at all. It was a catalyst for a lot of
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: things that we've been able to be part of that.
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: And I think our TV experience was a lot better
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: than from other things that we hear, too.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: It really was.
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: A positive experience. It was just a lot.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: How intimidating at first is that to have a camera
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: in your face? You know, like what I do, I
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: get to have a microphone and normally no video.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: I don't have to worry about anything. You know, now
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: before I go on, I'm checking, you know, is there
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: anything in my teeth or anything, you know, that kind
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: of thing. But you guys have cameras on you. It's
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: all high def, right? HD.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. How intimidating was that? Or were you good with that?
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: I don't know if we were so much.
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: There was no time to even think about what, like
• 35:16
  Speaker 5: people are like, did you have hair and makeup?
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: It's like, no, you just, you just kept going, show up.
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: And you get desensitized to the cameras too.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: And that's, and that's great when you can just start
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: to act natural, act yourself. You become friends with the crew.
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: So those people are all now just people that you know,
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: that you see.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: I think also the crew was terrific.
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: They helped us quite a bit. They made it seem friendly.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: There was no drama. I appreciate them. I really do.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: I think they portrayed us really well, but they also
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: made us feel very comfortable.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Well, that's really cool. I've never had that experience. I
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: guess we've done like when I first started working at
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Rep Collider, I remember they came in and a local
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: cable station shot a commercial. And I had to be
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: in the commercial as a customer. And I was just
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: supposed to do one thing, you know, look at the shelf.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: And I just kept looking at the camera, you.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Know, every time I had to do anything. And the
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: guy kept saying, just stop. Just stop. Is there anybody
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: else who can do this? Because he can't not look
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: at the camera. And it was because I don't know
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: why I couldn't.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: No, I understand. My husband can't. He just, they did
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: try to interview him for something. And it was just
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: not what he was interested in doing. And so at
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: that point we realized, okay, it's fine. Dale does not
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: need to be in this. It was just not for him.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: It's certainly not for everybody, but you had a great experience.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, the business, the exposure was huge.
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: It was huge, yeah.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: How big a change did that make?
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: A big change, yeah.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: I think it just, everything was already happening. It's hard
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: to say where everything came from because so much was
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: happening at the same time. So it's hard to say
• 37:16
  Speaker 5: one thing or the other, but the show was definitely
• 37:18
  Speaker 5: a catalyst for a.
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: Lot of growth.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: So, all right, let's talk about the houses themselves. You know,
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: a lot of our listeners live in older houses, all
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: the character and surprises that come from them. Jean, in
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: your book, you've written about the loving the mystery of,
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: of renovating older homes. And I'd love to hear from
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: both of you about this, but can you think of
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: a time when you discovered something unexpected in an older
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: house that changed your plans, that made you see the
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: house differently, anything like that?
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, it can be even the house you're in
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: Well, thankfully, Grace also has so many of these experiences
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: because I think you're on house number three or four
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: or five now, Grace, of old house. But I mean,
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: there's always surprises, whether it's um, the thing that actually
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: is a bearing wall has had studs knocked out of
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: it over the years. And like, we got to like
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: pour down to the basement, a foundation to shore this up.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: And it's because how is it stood this long? Well,
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: the plaster is holding it together. We just took the
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: plaster off. So, um, along with all kinds of also
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: exciting things. Cause I, I feel like there's, there's a,
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: there's a uniqueness in old homes that make for special
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: spaces that you just would never think of doing in
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: a new home that are the tipping point in the house,
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: that turn it from something that is pretty into something
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: that is exceptional. And I think it's the combination of
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: the guardrails like you're only allowed to do x because
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: this is an old home you can't you can't whether
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: it's maybe it's a historic home or or you you're
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: zoning or whatever you you can't change certain things that
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: are embedded into the project i always think that's a
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: very interesting thing to work with and i love that
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: that's life anyway there's always guardrails there's always you can't
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: go there you can't do that but there's also The
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: quirkiness or the uniqueness that make a project the possibility
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: of being exceptional that I love in old homes.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: Now, the guardrail thing is really interesting because it's a constraint.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Constraints bring out incredible amounts of creativity. And yet so
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: many people, me included, a lot of people, when a
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: constraint is there, We react almost like it's shutting it down,
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm stuck. And yet what you're talking about
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: is honestly that can catapult you into a lot of
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: creative thought because you've got to solve some issue here
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: and you get to places you never thought you would go.
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: It's true. Like I'm just looking at Grace's background. She
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: lives in a log home. Talk about constraints, you know,
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: and the need for creativity to make it something of
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: her own. There were lots of decisions. Go ahead, Grace,
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: because I think about this a lot. Yeah.
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: Just, you can't really move a log wall.
• 40:23
  Speaker 5: That's kind of the biggest one, or even like, um,
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: I've got this window in front of me, um, that
• 40:29
  Speaker 5: we put in and my husband was cutting it bigger
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: when we were renovating and there were these nails driven
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: into the logs that were like, that would go through
• 40:42
  Speaker 5: three courses of logs. And so in order to cut
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: it open, I think he ended up using like a
• 40:48
  Speaker 5: chainsaw or something and changing out.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: The sure blade.
• 40:53
  Speaker 5: It's not a blade on a chainsaw, but changing out
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: the belt situation, um, multiple times. So it, yeah, just takes, it,
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: it takes perseverance, right? Is you, you run into something,
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: you can either say, this.
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: Is not possible. I'm not doing this or what's it
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: going to take? Let's let's persevere.
• 41:10
  Speaker 5: Um, but the coolest thing we found in old house,
• 41:13
  Speaker 5: their very first house, we were demoing And found a
• 41:18
  Speaker 5: really cool old pocket door that was just sitting in
• 41:21
  Speaker 5: the wall, had been framed in. And there it was,
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: this gorgeous, solid, huge, five-foot-wide pocket door.
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: And this unassuming old home. You know, they just don't
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: make them like they used to.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: That's really cool.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: We found in our– we didn't have that old of
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: a house. But in the attic– it was from 1928.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: And in the attic, I found just a bunch of doors.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: They had pulled them all off and hauled them all upstairs.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: And left them up there. and put different ones on,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: swapped them all back out. Cause those old doors were
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: so cool.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that's a gold mine.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, we were so happy.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: And then constraints, you know, this is again, just nothing
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: kind of a thing, but we had a tiny, tiny
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: little bathroom in that house and they installed, it wasn't
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: even us. It was the previous owners, but they got
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: so creative. They installed a corner toilet, which I had
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: never seen before.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: It was literally a triangular tank. It sat in the corner.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: If it had been a normal toilet, it would have
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: taken up so much extra room that everybody would come
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: through and I'd haul them, you gotta come to the
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: bathroom and look at the toilet. And they would think
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: I was crazy until they saw the toilet. And then
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: they wanted other people to come and see the toilet.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: But it was a constraint where they found this ridiculously
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: creative solution that completely made the room. In fact, the
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: toilet made the house. You know? So let's talk about kitchens.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: Party trick. Yeah, I want to get to the books,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: and then we'll let you guys go. Kitchen.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: It's where so many homeowners have to make so many
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: decisions when they're doing work, and then they've got to
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: live with the decisions that they've made. Where do you
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: start when it comes to putting a kitchen together? What
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: are some of the things you're thinking about to help
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: the people out and just make sure that they've got
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: a design that's lasting?
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: I think the first thing.
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: We have developed a questionnaire that has gotten longer and
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: longer and longer as we learn different things that people
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: need to think about for their kitchen. Because everybody's a
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: little different. There's some similar threads always, but everybody's a
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: little different. So what's important to them, we catalog. And then, honestly,
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: the space is so crucial. How the space is laid out.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: is probably the biggest issue. Making sure that there's enough
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: aisle width to do what, you know, is it a
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: one-person kitchen or is it a family kitchen? That matters
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: when we lay it out. And there's adequate counter space
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: where you need it. There's adequate storage where you need it.
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: The appliances service the family that's there. You know, is
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: it a family kitchen? You have five kids. You need
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: a big fridge. You know, my husband and I, we
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: need four fridges. So, you know, an empty nester that
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: doesn't have kids coming by much maybe doesn't need a
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: big fridge. So there's lots of questions like that. But
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: living into the future, I think if you can get
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: a solid floor plan, then finishes are the icing on
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: the cake. You want them to last and not be
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: too trendy. But that's where you can have a lot
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: of self-expression, too.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Do you guys normally agree on what belongs in a kitchen?
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Or do you sometimes think, oh, I think this one
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: needs a little something different?
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: I think we generally agree.
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: I think so, too. I'll tell you one kind of
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: fun thing is, so I've been doing this now, you know,
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: longer than Grace has, well, as long as Grace has
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: been alive. And so I've seen certain trends. come and
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: go and now they're coming back again and there are
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: certain things that when the trend left I was quite
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: thankful and now it's back and I'm like wait wait.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: You weren't ready for it to come back.
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah and I see our designers doing some things that
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: or pinning some things that I remember from the 90s
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: and so it's taken me a little bit of like
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: re recalibrating to remember okay there is a way to
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: do this in a non-trendy way let's do it that
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: way because you can either go all into this trend
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: and then then you've made a specific design kitchen that
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: might not last you know past this trend or you
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: can take the best of this trend and keep it
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: classic and kind of trend defying and i think um
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: That's where my longevity is actually helping, but I need
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: to be open to the newer things. Also, whether it's
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: technology or even ways of thinking about things that Grace
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: and our younger designers bring to the table. And so
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: it's really been, I think it's a strong suit for
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: us that we have the mix.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: How do you feel about all the new tech and
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: stuff in the kitchen, the smart fridges that know what's
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: in the fridge and they'll tell you?
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, do you guys go in? What do you
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: think of that?
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: We always try to stay up to date on what's
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: the latest with different appliances and faucets and all that stuff.
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: And then you kind of gauge.
• 46:55
  Speaker 5: I think that going back to the previous question of
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: how do you design a space, your first question a
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: student of the space, and then a student of your client.
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: You're just trying to take information and deliver a product
• 47:09
  Speaker 5: that has all the information downloaded so that you're giving
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: the best product possible. And I think that's the same
• 47:17
  Speaker 5: with appliances. It's just like, if a client asks me
• 47:20
  Speaker 5: about induction, I know about induction. I can tell them
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: the pros and cons. And then they can tell me
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: if they want that included in their kitchen. So it's
• 47:29
  Speaker 5: really about being a student and being hungry for like, okay,
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: I need every bit of knowledge before we're going to
• 47:34
  Speaker 5: just jump in and design this. Otherwise, we're designing it again.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Well, like you said, it's figuring out what they need,
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: not necessarily what they want.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: You want that. You want to find a way to
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: combine them.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: But sometimes people want, I don't know if you've run
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: into this, but we'll get that in the paint store
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: where they'll want a color for a room and Boy,
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: are they wrong.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: You got to find a.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Way because you know that nine out of 10 times,
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: if you put that on your wall, you're going to
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: be back somewhere else, you know, being taken care of
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: by people because you can't handle it anymore.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: How do you walk them through that? How do you
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: walk them down a little bit?
• 48:13
  Speaker 5: I think it actually encourages people to trust you. If
• 48:15
  Speaker 5: you aren't just like, yeah, sure.
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: Whatever you want.
• 48:18
  Speaker 5: Like they hire you for a reason because they want
• 48:20
  Speaker 5: your expertise. And so, or they walk into your paint
• 48:23
  Speaker 5: store and talk to you because they want expertise.
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: Um, and so if you're always, yes, yes, yes. Looks great.
• 48:29
  Speaker 5: Whatever it shows you don't really care, but when you
• 48:32
  Speaker 5: are methodical about, Hey, I really think that this could
• 48:36
  Speaker 5: be done better. Let's explore this idea or, Hey, I
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: got to think about this and I got to go
• 48:42
  Speaker 5: back to the office and really think about this so
• 48:44
  Speaker 5: I can give you an educated answer. And I think
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: people really actually respond well to that and feel very
• 48:50
  Speaker 5: taken care of.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: I'm going to try that.
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: I think one thing that we've noticed a lot is
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: that we've noticed that people really do take quite a
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: bit of time in the beginning, answering the questionnaire and
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: really thinking through it. And then there are times where
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: As the project progresses, where they'll get on Pinterest or
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: Instagram or something and see something and all of a
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: sudden it's like, wait, no, I like that. And they
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: bring it to us. And so sometimes it's helping us,
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: it's us helping them. Okay, it's different than this. Let's
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: look at both of them and see like, is this
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: the new route you want to take? Or do we
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: go back to this idea that you said, kind of
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: laid out in the beginning. And sometimes it's like, now
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: I'm more educated. So I actually do like this new idea.
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: I didn't even know it existed before. And I actually
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: do resonate with it. Whereas like, Oh no, I do
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: really want that. What I first started out thinking about.
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: I do like that. Thank you. Thank you.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you for not letting me go the other way.
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: So I know Grace, you've got a scoot in a
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: minute here, but, um, talk about the books. Cause you've
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: got Jean, you've got a book out.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: I've read that. Grace, you got, I think you guys
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: co-wrote like a children's book, right? About moving, right?
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: We did. Yeah.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: Talk about your book. Talk about how that came about.
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: Um, so my, my family, I have four kids and
• 50:27
  Speaker 5: my husband and our children and I, we moved to
• 50:30
  Speaker 5: this cabin that we thought was going to be a
• 50:32
  Speaker 5: vacation rental and turned out to be our primary residence, um,
• 50:36
  Speaker 5: after renting it out for only a year. Um, and
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: you know, there's a lot of emotions that come with
• 50:43
  Speaker 5: moves and each kid took it a little bit differently.
• 50:46
  Speaker 5: And so, um, we, and we had been asked to
• 50:51
  Speaker 5: write a children's book at one point or somebody floated
• 50:53
  Speaker 5: that idea. And so I took a little bit of
• 50:57
  Speaker 5: a sabbatical from work, um, in the month of January
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: and just started thinking about the whole move that we
• 51:06
  Speaker 5: had just made and the emotions that come along with it.
• 51:08
  Speaker 5: And just wrote a little poem that now is the book.
• 51:12
  Speaker 5: We are home when we're together. And it was really
• 51:15
  Speaker 5: fun then to work with my mom on the manuscript
• 51:17
  Speaker 5: and then work with, um, Harper Collins and also work
• 51:23
  Speaker 5: with the illustrator, Megan Lindsay.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: Did you know the illustrator or did the publisher hook
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: you up?
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: My mom found her.
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: Okay. On Instagram.
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah on the gram yeah yeah I'm really bad at
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: the gram but.
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah it's it's a it's been good for us it
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: can be you know a spot that's not great.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: But it's the gram I think the gram can be
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: great I'm gonna call it the gram from now on
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: but I just am terrible at it you know I'll
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: post things and yeah it I almost get followers just
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: to ask me to please stop posting things and follow again.
• 52:04
  Speaker 5: But we have something really exciting coming is that our
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: first coffee table book is out for pre-order right now.
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: And it's going to be launching on April 6th, right?
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes. And it's called The Purpose of Home. And it's,
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: you know, hundreds of pages of beautiful photographs and lifestyle
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: photographs also and little essays on the purpose of home.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: So that sounds really good. Did your son do the
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: photography or is that it's.
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: Every single bit, every single, so every.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: Photo you co-wrote the book together. I mean, co-wrote, co-wrote
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: the book.
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: So it's a family thing.
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: It's a whole family book.
• 52:46
  Speaker 5: It's, it's got, um, it actually goes through like a
• 52:49
  Speaker 5: day and has recipes for breakfast, coffee, lunch, aperitivo. Oh, wow.
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's fun.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: It's really cool.
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: It's like a progressive, it takes a different house for
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: each meal, goes in-depth on that house, and then has
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: a recipe that goes along with that meal. It's kind
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: of a cool concept.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: So where did the concept come from? Did you guys
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: dream that up? Did somebody come to you and say, hey,
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: what do you think about this?
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: I think that was John's idea. Wasn't it, Grace, or
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: was it yours? Yours and John's? Yeah, yeah. Family idea.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: Family idea. Well, that's a really cool idea. So that's
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: coming out in April.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: And then, Jean, you've got the book that I referenced earlier,
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: Establishing Home.
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: It's really, really a good read. You go through it fast,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: but it's a.
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: Well, you went through it really fast because you listened
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: to it at 2.5.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I got it and I listened to it over
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: the weekend and.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: I was telling Grace, I was so bummed with myself
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: because I'd sent the idea of what we would talk
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: about before.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: I'd been able to go through the book.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: And once I went through the book, oh man, I
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: could spend a long time on so many interesting stories.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: That I thought I loved.
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: We'll have to come back again.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: I would love that. I loved the book.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: It was really interesting, really fun, really great read. A
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: lot of good stories in there. Definitely encourage everybody out
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: there to check it out. Jean and Grace, as we
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: get ready to wrap it up, How do people find you?
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, they already know how to find you, most likely.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: But why don't you tell them the best place to
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: find you so they can figure out where these books are,
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: when they come out, and just see what you're up
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: to next.
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: I think the best places to follow us are on YouTube,
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: Stouffer Home, and on each of our Instagrams, Grace underscore
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: start and Jean Stouffer Design. All right.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: I'll put all of that in the show notes. I'd
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: love to have you back on again. We could dig
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: into some specifics if that ever sounded good. I think
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: that'd be a lot of fun.
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: We've loved it, Dan. Thanks so much for having us.
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having us.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for being here.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: You know, something that I keep coming back to from
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: this conversation is that idea of guardrails. You know, every
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: house has things that we've got to work around. And
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: sometimes working through those limitations, that's how we find something
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: that we wouldn't have thought of otherwise. I loved you know,
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: that part of this whole conversation. If you'd like more
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: from Jean and Grace, check out Jean's book, Establishing Home.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: It's really, we joked about a quick read because I
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: was listening at super speed on Audible. But it's just,
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: it's such an engaging book. I really recommend it.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: It's a really great look at the method, at just
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: everything that they went through, worked through to get where
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: they're at now.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: That one's great. Check that out.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: And remember, their children's book is We Are Home When
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: We're Together, Trusting God Through Life's Changes. And their upcoming book,
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: The Purpose of Home, is available for pre-order and is
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: scheduled for release on April 6, 2027. Now, you can
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: follow Gene and Grace on Instagram. You can find Stouffer
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: Home on YouTube. I'll put links to their accounts, websites,
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: and all three books.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: In the show notes.
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: And if you know someone who would enjoy this conversation,
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: send the episode their way. And be sure to follow
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: Home in Progress wherever you listen so you'll get the
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: next episode as well.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: I'm Dan Hanson.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to Home in Progress by Repco Light Paints,
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: sponsored by Benjamin Moore.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: See you next time.