Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Master Builders NT's Dave Malone says new reforms for training in the building industry will side-line some workers and business owners

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Master Builders NT's Dave Malone says new reforms for training in the building industry will side-line some workers and business owners · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: We know that the Northern Territory government has entered into
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: a consultation process from what I can gather, to introduce
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: licensing for commercial contractors, introducing commercial builder registration and bringing
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: in continuous professional development for those in the industry. Joining
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: me on the line right now to tell us a
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: little bit more about the situation is Master Builders and
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Ties Executive Director Dave Malone.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Dave.
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: Good morning Katie.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: How are you not too bad?
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Dave?
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  Speaker 2: What do these changes mean for the industry?
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  Speaker 3: Well, Katie, the government's out at the moment with a
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: consultation paper which contains two options around licensing for commercial contractors,
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  Speaker 3: so people who do office fit outs right through to
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: shared high rises, airport control towers, hangers, the whole up.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: And what they're looking to do is to require licensing
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: for all work over a certain value. So that means
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  Speaker 3: pretty much. You know, eighty percent of our industry is
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: commercial contracting, so about eighty percent of the industry. Will
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: we move into a licensing raging sometimes in the near future.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: What is that going to mean for those that are
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: engaged in these commercial contracts?
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  Speaker 2: Is it going to make things more difficult? Dave?
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  Speaker 3: Well, if I could take a step back, I would
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  Speaker 3: say Master Builders has been a long supporter of the
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  Speaker 3: idea of having licensing because it does provide a mechanism
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  Speaker 3: to demonstrate that people can do the work they're contracted
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  Speaker 3: to do, and with CPD it does encourage people to
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  Speaker 3: continue to develop their skills. The issue that we have
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  Speaker 3: is that they've chosen an academic pathway only. And so
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  Speaker 3: you know, for an industry where everybody gets their job
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  Speaker 3: their skills on the job, this is a trade career,
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  Speaker 3: just like so many vocational activities in Australia, and you know,
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  Speaker 3: we should have two pathways in our view. One should
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: recognize your experience and your skills from on the job
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  Speaker 3: and one you can choose to go to UNI if
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  Speaker 3: you'd like.
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  Speaker 1: Hang on a sex, So are you saying that for
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  Speaker 1: some of our builders, for some of the people engaged
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  Speaker 1: in this work, they are going to need to go
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: through university to get the qualifications that they're required to
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: be able to do commercial fit outs and commercial jobs.
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely, so they're suggesting diplomas or degrees for particular types
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  Speaker 3: of construction work, you know, for commercial construction work, and
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  Speaker 3: we're saying, hang on the reason people got a trade
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  Speaker 3: in the first place, is because they weren't so much
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  Speaker 3: interested in academic work. They were hands on people. I've
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  Speaker 3: got members who will have thirty or forty years in
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: terms of experience in the industry, who will have to
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  Speaker 3: prove now that they have the skills to match a university's.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Agree, Dave, why are they doing this?
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: I think that you know, they've grabbed the bull by
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  Speaker 3: the horns and they run off with an elegant theory.
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  Speaker 3: Our criticism of government is that they haven't been prepared
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  Speaker 3: to get out and talk to people before they started
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  Speaker 3: developing models. They've come up with what they think is
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  Speaker 3: a nice, elegant theory, but in practice it just doesn't
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  Speaker 3: work for our industry. So I think they've had the
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  Speaker 3: right intent, But it's another example of where people today
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: are so reluctant to get out and talk to the
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: people that are affected. The state.
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  Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing, you know, if we're talking
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  Speaker 1: about a whole industry that's going to be impacted here
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  Speaker 1: is surely they should be the first people that we're
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: consulting with.
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely, And then I get really frustrated, to be honest,
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: when I find out that they actually have They've already
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  Speaker 3: moved on to the next stage. I've already started talking
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: about implementation when their consultation is only just being rolled out.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: And then I look at their consultation page on the website.
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  Speaker 3: It only gives you the option to choose one of
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  Speaker 3: the two options they've picked. It doesn't give you a
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  Speaker 3: chance to say no, it should be something different. It's
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  Speaker 3: such a controlled process affecting real people who have real jobs,
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  Speaker 3: with real families to feed, and it's just incredibly frustrating.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: So, Dave, right now, as this stands, is it still
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: in the consultation process or have they moved on? Are
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  Speaker 1: people going to have their opportunity to have their voices heard?
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Who are most going to be impacted?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I don't really know. That's a question for the
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  Speaker 3: government to be We're completely honest. What I do know
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  Speaker 3: is that they've started work on implementation. And that wouldn't
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  Speaker 3: fill me with much confidence if I were sitting there
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  Speaker 3: trying to provide a submission to government. And it doesn't
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  Speaker 3: give me confidence when they've already moved on. How can
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  Speaker 3: they move on without hearing what people have got to say?
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  Speaker 3: And this is this issue about having an elegant theory
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: where it affects so many people, you've got to have
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  Speaker 3: both it on the ground and have a practical solution
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  Speaker 3: to it.
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  Speaker 1: From master builders perspective, if these changes come into place,
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  Speaker 1: how many businesses are we talking about that are going
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  Speaker 1: to be impacted?
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  Speaker 3: Well, Katie, that's a really good question because it just
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  Speaker 3: depends on the top of work people are doing. But
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  Speaker 3: I can tell you that eighty percent of my membership
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  Speaker 3: is commercial contracting. I can tell you that you know
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  Speaker 3: the people who do renovations in schools and new and
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  Speaker 3: to move, you know people who are building shops in
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  Speaker 3: our Springs or dal and they're all affected. So there's
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  Speaker 3: about thirteen hundred employing businesses in our industry, and you
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  Speaker 3: have to think at least eighty percent of those are affected.
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  Speaker 1: Dave. If they are forced into a situation where the
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  Speaker 1: qualifications change and that they're going to and the licensing
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  Speaker 1: changes for eighty percent of your membership, are they going
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  Speaker 1: to be able to continue to operate?
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  Speaker 3: Well, that's a sixty four dollars question right now. I
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  Speaker 3: don't think the government would moved to the point where
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  Speaker 3: it pushed people out of the industry, or at least
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  Speaker 3: I hope not. But I think if we're not careful,
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  Speaker 3: we could have a really hand fitted approach to this
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  Speaker 3: and that might be the result that happens anyway. You know,
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  Speaker 3: I'm really concerned about, you know, people who are very
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  Speaker 3: much hands on businessmen and women, they're already doing their
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  Speaker 3: sixty or seventy hours a week. If they have to
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  Speaker 3: migrate across to some form of degree and there's any
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  Speaker 3: gaps at all and they have to go back to UNI,
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  Speaker 3: what happens to those people. We should just have a
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: better conversation about this. We should start at the start,
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: not come up with elegant theories and then try and
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  Speaker 3: shove them down an industry's next.
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  Speaker 2: Is this happening in any other state?
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  Speaker 3: Well, they have. Each day has its own licensing regimes,
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  Speaker 3: and some of them have been around for a very
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  Speaker 3: long time. But we're starting at the very start, and
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  Speaker 3: in my mind, or to my mind, the process of
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  Speaker 3: developing the model for the Northern Territory should start at
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  Speaker 3: the very start, and I just don't think they've done that.
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  Speaker 3: I think they're so locked in on this elegant theory.
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  Speaker 3: I just don't want to hear how practically it doesn't
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  Speaker 3: work for many people, Dave.
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  Speaker 1: I know that there'll be people listening this morning who
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  Speaker 1: maybe don't have a husband that works in construction, or
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: don't have a family member that's employed in the construction industry,
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  Speaker 1: whether it is a tradee or whether it's somebody who
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  Speaker 1: works as a support you know, in support I, administration
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: or management any other area within the construction industry. For
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: those out there listening who are sort of going, oh,
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  Speaker 1: is it going to have that big an impact? How
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: is this going to change things in the territory? What
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  Speaker 1: would you say to them?
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  Speaker 3: What I'd say to them is that you know, construction
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  Speaker 3: is the second largest industry in the Northern Territory and
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  Speaker 3: it employs around thirteen thousand people. If you mess around
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  Speaker 3: with our capability and our capacity, if you drive people
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  Speaker 3: out of our industry for all sorts of reasons, then
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  Speaker 3: we all suffer from that because every dollar spent in
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  Speaker 3: construction spins right through the economy, creating two or three
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  Speaker 3: dollars everywhere else. So these impacts are felt by everybody.
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  Speaker 3: I know that people will say, oh, will progress is progress,
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  Speaker 3: But you don't have to jump off the highest diving
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  Speaker 3: board on day one. You can start at a smaller
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  Speaker 3: diving board.
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  Speaker 1: Can't you, absolutely, Dave, to any I mean to anybody
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  Speaker 1: who is in the construction industry, particularly those that are
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: working in the commercial side of things, who are going
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  Speaker 1: to be impacted, is there still an opportunity for them
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  Speaker 1: to have their voices heard?
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  Speaker 2: And if so, how should they do that?
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  Speaker 3: Right? So, they need to go to the dipple website
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  Speaker 3: and the difficult website will give them a Sorry those
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: listeners a department of Infrastructure, Planning and Logistics yep, and
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  Speaker 3: go to their website and there's an opportunity to have
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  Speaker 3: your stay there. Unfortunately, it's quite a constrained process. We'll
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  Speaker 3: continue to advocate to the entire industry, Katie, and if
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  Speaker 3: people want to talk about it, they're more than welcome
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  Speaker 3: to call me as well.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Dave Malone, the head of Master Builders here in the
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  Speaker 1: Northern Territory. I always appreciate your time. Make this sounds
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  Speaker 1: like it is a concerning one. Please keep us up
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: to date with how things progress and let us know
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  Speaker 1: if you know if there is any change or many
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  Speaker 1: any movement in this space.
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  Speaker 3: Thanks Katie, it's good to talk to you.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: Thank you you too.