Latest / The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast / Episode 359. Oil Management with Andrew Freeburg

Transcript

Episode 359. Oil Management with Andrew Freeburg · The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast

• 0:00
  Erik Holland: So, tonight…
• 0:02
  RM Instructor: So tonight we have, so tonight we have our…
• 0:06
  Erik Holland: Christmas party.
• 0:09
  Erik Holland: So, yeah, actually, we are… we already added…
• 0:13
  RM Instructor: Yeah, boy. I love that.
• 0:16
  RM Instructor: Oh, wow.
• 0:16
  Erik Holland: Oh, that's… that's my morning coffee, yeah.
• 0:22
  RM Instructor: That is… that is important.
• 0:27
  RM Instructor: I'm just looking for one more slide, and then we'll,
• 0:31
  RM Instructor: We'll get started here. Andrew, Andrew.
• 0:40
  Erik Holland: No, hijack.
• 0:41
  Andrew Freeburg: What's up, Noah?
• 0:46
  Erik Holland: So… I hijacked my colleague Rasmus here, so he's also in here, listening in.
• 0:53
  RM Instructor: Oh, awesome!
• 0:53
  Andrew Freeburg: Oh, cool.
• 0:55
  RM Instructor: Love that. More, the merrier.
• 0:59
  RM Instructor: That's what it's all about. What else?
• 1:00
  Noah Walker: What's going on, guys? How we doing?
• 1:02
  Andrew Freeburg: Oh, there he is.
• 1:03
  RM Instructor: So good.
• 1:04
  Andrew Freeburg: How are you, man?
• 1:05
  Noah Walker: Hey, I'm good, just on a call right now, so… Always on.
• 1:11
  RM Instructor: Always on a call. Always on a call. Yeah, always crush it. I love it.
• 1:14
  Noah Walker: Yeah. Well, I figured I could… figured I could join in and learn a couple things from you guys.
• 1:20
  RM Instructor: Oh, we're gonna learn from you, bud.
• 1:22
  Noah Walker: Like, we.
• 1:24
  RM Instructor: We usually do. Like we usually do. So, welcome to Morin Coffee with Andrew and Trevor. So, super excited. The community's doing so awesome. I continue to see lots of conversations going on. Thank you, all of you, for sharing knowledge, helping others. That's what it's all about, right? It's helping other technicians out there learn a little bit.
• 1:42
  RM Instructor: grow a little bit, and it's… it's a lot of fun. And I'll just shout out to Andrew, for putting a lot of work into it and answering a lot of questions and messages, getting into the community. And if this is the first time, you're hearing about the community of refrigerationMentor.com slash hub, check it out. It's a great place to learn and grow, and I continue… I continue to learn from the technicians in there. A lot of…
• 2:06
  RM Instructor: people message me and say, hey, Trevor, like, I'm only doing it for 2 years, or 3 years, or, you know, I'm just learning, but I learn a ton from people in there for just a couple years, because the industry has changed so much in the last 15 or 20 years when I first started. It was a funny thing, a guy sent me a photo last night, a wholesaler, one of the wholesale branch managers, retired, and he was cleaning out the
• 2:31
  RM Instructor: The filing cabinet and stuff, and he found this old,
• 2:34
  RM Instructor: old list, phone number list, and he sent me a picture, and he was like, check out this gym. And it was, Justin, can't remember Justin, I'll have to look up his last name. Shever, I think. But he, he sent me a picture of it, and then it had my name there, Apprentice.
• 2:49
  RM Instructor: my phone number, my employee number, and stuff like that, and I'm like… and I've seen a bunch of old names that I've…
• 2:54
  RM Instructor: didn't forget about, but I just haven't seen in a decade or more, right, since I've been on the tools, so it was pretty cool to see that. I'm like, oh, there's a little proof for some people saying, oh, has this guy ever been on the tools before, you know what I mean? So…
• 3:08
  RM Instructor: So that was a lot of fun. Andrew, how you doing this morning, brother?
• 3:13
  Andrew Freeburg: Good morning, everyone. I'm doing wonderful, got my coffee, so I'm ready to rock here. I'm excited about the topic today, so yeah, doing wonderful.
• 3:23
  RM Instructor: Yeah, we're gonna dive into oil management. I think this one… this… I talk about this in all my CO2 courses, all my supermarket courses, and really, consistently is something that we need to talk about more. There's more and more information about oil out there and oil management than ever before.
• 3:37
  RM Instructor: But this is one of the things that I still have a lot of questions on, even with experienced technicians, because there's times when, like, I gotta add oil, and to add oil to the system.
• 3:47
  RM Instructor: And it just doesn't come back, you know what I mean? Maybe for a week, maybe two weeks, but then it's gonna come back at some point if it's not leaked, you know what I mean? So it's just… what is going on and why isn't it coming back? And that's the thing that we gotta figure out. That goes more sometimes in the engineering and design side that we don't really think about as a technician in the field.
• 4:07
  RM Instructor: But it's something we have to be very, very aware of with oil, because if it's not designed correctly, or if it's not… if you don't have the proper mass flow in the system, that totally can affect
• 4:19
  RM Instructor: how your oil is traveling through the system. And we don't always think of that. We think about the mechanic… well, for me, anyway, I shouldn't say all of us, that's generalizing, but for me, anyway, it's like…
• 4:32
  RM Instructor: mechanical. Like, it must be the separator, the reservoir, the depressurization switch, or the, you know, the pump, or all this stuff, when it may be the system itself. What are your thoughts on that, Andrew?
• 4:43
  Andrew Freeburg: Yeah, it, unfortunately does happen all the time. I mean, there's been risers where they didn't shrink down when it was needed that I've seen, or P-traps where, you know, to sling the oil up to cause a higher velocity to
• 4:58
  Andrew Freeburg: get the oil up. I've seen that. Or slopes, over time, or something rotten' out, and then now you got dips in the, suction line. I mean, it does happen. It truly does, and over time, maybe cases ice up, a little bit by little bit, and it's not fully enough to block the airflow yet.
• 5:17
  Andrew Freeburg: And so then, now they're staying in the evaporator, which cascades even more, so now you're running lower pressures. So yeah, I mean, it… all that goes around
• 5:27
  Andrew Freeburg: With oil management, and, without…
• 5:32
  Andrew Freeburg: it's tough. I mean, that's what's probably one of the harder things to con… to, gather
• 5:42
  Andrew Freeburg: for any oil situation. So you gotta start kind of thinking outside the box sometimes, and just like what you said, it could be just the whole…
• 5:50
  Andrew Freeburg: install mechanics.
• 5:52
  RM Instructor: Yeah, and I think one of the things we get… when we talk about an oil management system, I usually just talk about, basically, the components.
• 5:59
  RM Instructor: But the piping is a component.
• 6:01
  RM Instructor: the velocity is a component as well. You know what I mean? Maybe it's not a physical component, but it… the velocity is a component of that oil management system. And when we talk about how it travels through the system, it's like…
• 6:13
  RM Instructor: when I started learning about VFD drives on compressors, because the first I really… I'd seen them in the field, but I didn't really know much about them when I was a technician until it wasn't very super popular back in the mid-2000s.
• 6:24
  RM Instructor: But I've seen a few of them on there, so… but when I started doing compressor training, when I worked at Copeland, I started learning digital heavy, and understanding digital, how it unloads and loads up, but there's no mass flow, and there's full mass flow, no flat mass flow, full mass flow. And then when I learned on a drive, so it's like block suction. Then when I learned about drives, as it ramps up, that mass flow starts to increase.
• 6:49
  RM Instructor: because you're displacing more, you're moving more gas, and then when it starts to slow down, you're moving less gas, and then you have to really take a look at, how that is… how that function works with the oil management system, as when I start to ramp down to
• 7:06
  RM Instructor: 30 Hz, or 25 Hz. We really want to understand, what's happening with that oil, because this is why there is limitations with drive. That is actually a function of the oil management system. We may not think about that.
• 7:20
  RM Instructor: You know what I mean? Like, but I… when I start to learn more and deeper on what refrigeration is all about fundamentally, that really starts to say, holy smokes, it's not just…
• 7:30
  RM Instructor: the oil com… like, the oil management section itself. It's the full system we gotta look at, like you said.
• 7:39
  Andrew Freeburg: It's… it's… How the separator works on a…
• 7:45
  Andrew Freeburg: on an oil… our oil management system, yeah, is mass flow is a huge part of that, that you can't just shove any…
• 7:53
  Andrew Freeburg: oil separator, and think it's going to work, so it's, I second that, Trevor. It's huge, it's very, very important.
• 8:03
  Andrew Freeburg: To understand exactly how that thing separates and what it needs for it to separate.
• 8:09
  Andrew Freeburg: Yeah. And if you go outside that envelope, it doesn't work right. And then that's probably why you're there, getting the phone calls saying, hey, I got no oil, let's add some.
• 8:19
  RM Instructor: Yeah, and that, that is…
• 8:22
  RM Instructor: That is something that I… I was doing a CO2 training, I think, last week, where, the… the guy said, like.
• 8:29
  RM Instructor: my team had to go out and add oil. I think I mentioned this on the last one we talked about, but they went out and added 7 or 9 gallons of oil, because there was just no oil in the system, and it was gone, and they needed to get the rack up and running, right? You got millions of dollars of product, so they were just like, let's get the… let's get it in. What really was happening, that he said that they don't have any heaters on the reservoir, for an example.
• 8:53
  RM Instructor: And it was minus 10 out, or minus… I can't remember what the 10 were, but it was really cold. The reservoir filled up with liquid refrigerant, and it pushed all the oil out into the system. And… but the oil didn't come back. They added up to 7 to 9 gallons, and now all of a sudden, they got a receiver level.
• 9:10
  RM Instructor: But now, a week later, it ran for a week, but he told me the other day that some of it started to come back, but not all of it.
• 9:17
  RM Instructor: So it's just at… still at the right level, so it's still out in the system.
• 9:22
  RM Instructor: But that there is causing some sort of other issue, for sure, you know what I mean? Because if that's in a… an evaporator now, maybe the evaporator's not full of oil, but your heat transfer now is not the same.
• 9:34
  RM Instructor: You know, so that's pretty, pretty important to take a look at. So today, I think we're gonna dive into a little bit of… I'm gonna show a few pictures, so if you're listening on the podcast, or if you're just listening, we'll try to talk about through the pictures.
• 9:49
  RM Instructor: So, we take a look, this is an old Tyler rack. I can't remember where I took this photo at. This was a long time, probably about 10 years ago I took this photo, where, it's a refurbished rack.
• 10:02
  RM Instructor: as they were removing this one, somewhere's in Toronto, I think. But, this one here has got a good shot of some of the different oil management components on there. Andrew, what are a few of the ones that you see, specifically on here?
• 10:18
  Andrew Freeburg: Well, I've noticed right away, is the oil float, and then the Centronic.
• 10:24
  Andrew Freeburg: just right off the top of my head. But I'm looking at this rack, and I love how clean it is for an old rack. That's… that's how it… honestly, that's how it should be, so… right on for everyone involved in that, so…
• 10:37
  RM Instructor: Yeah, this one, I don't think this one's even piped in yet. I think they're removing it, they're relocating it to, some, but it's still pretty clean when they pull it out. I think they tidied it up and cleaned it up a bit. But there's… there's a couple of components right there. We got the oil pump as well, you know, with the oil scent… the… the sensor.
• 10:57
  RM Instructor: Then, we also have to consider the discharge.
• 11:01
  RM Instructor: And we have to consider the suction, because, you know, the compressor has to move that as we spin the rotor.
• 11:09
  RM Instructor: spins with the stator. We're making this gear… this gear pump spin, and we're starting to get a positive displacement of it.
• 11:19
  RM Instructor: So here's a… here's a few different… different ones. What are some of the things that you like to teach, especially in the community? I know you've been talking about a few of them. What are some of the things that you teach on these components, Andrew?
• 11:30
  Andrew Freeburg: Well, going off with the first one that we circled was the oil… the oil float. How to set it up? Brand new. Once they're set up, there's a graph inside there that says, from the… from the top.
• 11:43
  Andrew Freeburg: or from the very bottom, you turn it X amount of turns, and it's gonna give you that sight glass. And if you know how to read that graph, that's exactly what you do for that oil.
• 11:56
  Andrew Freeburg: float for your compressors. It'll get it spot on. I remember when I first started in this industry, I didn't know that. I just went over there and started cranking on the…
• 12:08
  Andrew Freeburg: on the dial, and I'll sit there and wait, nothing happens, so I crank it the other way, nothing happens, oh, it's a bad float. But in reality, that…
• 12:17
  Andrew Freeburg: even if it was working right, and I sit there and crank on it, it's a slow process. It doesn't happen instantly, it's very slow, so, that I learned after I said that it was a bad float, and then I had another
• 12:34
  Andrew Freeburg: same issue happened with that one. Learning as I was going through the… That,
• 12:42
  Andrew Freeburg: working, right? So then, I found out way, way too late about that graph.
• 12:49
  Andrew Freeburg: I'm like, alright, I'm gonna test this out on my next one, and it, man, it's been spot on, and I do that every time, and it's been just exactly that. So, huge point on that. Also, the inlet. There's a filter, or a screen,
• 13:03
  Andrew Freeburg: I've had that puppy plug up on me one time, and I could not… I just said it was a bad…
• 13:11
  Andrew Freeburg: float, because it wasn't opening. Then I realized what it was, was, the screen, being in there.
• 13:22
  Andrew Freeburg: Going to the, oil… Safety.
• 13:26
  Andrew Freeburg: I think it's really important to understand how that works.
• 13:31
  Andrew Freeburg: really, and how to wire it up, even from scratch, I think it's important, because you never know, right? I've gone to where someone,
• 13:42
  Andrew Freeburg: The store owner went in there and just… Thought he could wire it.
• 13:47
  Andrew Freeburg: And he spaghetti'd everything, so basically took everything off the terminals.
• 13:52
  Andrew Freeburg: And, you know, you got a black wire, you got a green wire, you got a purple wire, you got a… well, green wire makes the sense, but anyways, you have all these wires just hanging out, and what does that… what… where do you start? So, I think getting a,
• 14:07
  Andrew Freeburg: Knowing how those things are wired up from the get-go is going to help you out a long way, especially understanding how that system and how it works.
• 14:16
  RM Instructor: Yeah.
• 14:18
  RM Instructor: I definitely agree with that, and I think when all… when you're out there training, because this is one of the big things that all of you are coming here, and you're learning, but when we talk about this stuff, we want you to actually go out and train this stuff to other people. How do you learn is actually being able to explain it, train it, do it.
• 14:35
  RM Instructor: in the field yourself, because Andrew has done all this, I've done all this stuff in the past.
• 14:39
  RM Instructor: And it's so important to look at it. These are just single components of a full oil management system that you really, really want to understand. And I think when I'm talking about myself, the Cintronic, or oil failure control, there's a few things that come to mind to me, because
• 14:56
  RM Instructor: Checking that net oil pressure, that's one thing. So, one thing that we need to do is you need to put your gauge right here on the side, because this is a Copeland, it's going to be a little different on a Carlisle or on a…
• 15:10
  RM Instructor: a bitzer, and then you want to take it from the crank. See that in right here, there is no…
• 15:17
  RM Instructor: access fitting. But we should add an access fitting on the crank for Copeland, because it's the… the… you're getting the right information. You can go… a lot of people go to the suction, but it's going to be a couple PSI difference. And people are like, well, it's only a couple PSI difference.
• 15:32
  RM Instructor: And it shouldn't be that low anyway, so say it's 2 psi difference. You still shouldn't be having, like, a 13 psi or a 1 bar differential. It should be higher than that. It should be 2 or 3 bar, as well as, you know, 30 to 40 psi differential, or net oil pressure.
• 15:50
  RM Instructor: But you should be taking it from there on the Copeland. The thing is, though, is I've seen where the sensor here, and we've seen it all, you gotta… you gotta take this apart.
• 16:00
  RM Instructor: You know, and sometimes, so, Andrew, you've taken lots of these out. Do you have to drain this whole compressor of oil?
• 16:09
  RM Instructor: I'm taking that…
• 16:09
  Andrew Freeburg: Oh, no, no, I mean…
• 16:12
  Andrew Freeburg: The only time you ever have to do that is the pickup screen. Other than that, you don't have to drain that oil at all.
• 16:19
  RM Instructor: But I tell you, on that sensor that you mentioned, I…
• 16:22
  Andrew Freeburg: I got bit. Hard. Went.
• 16:25
  RM Instructor: When those first came out.
• 16:28
  Andrew Freeburg: Checking net oil pressure, just like you said, you go off the oil pump, and then you go off the crankcase, and the difference of the two, that is your net oil, pressure, just to recap.
• 16:39
  Andrew Freeburg: I was getting great oil pressure, nothing was alarming, I was just trying to make sure what was going on.
• 16:47
  Andrew Freeburg: And I kept getting called back out here, and I could not figure it out. I mean, I pulled this whole thing apart, checked the inlet screen, checked everything. Cleaned everything, I thought.
• 16:59
  Andrew Freeburg: But I went and pulled that sensor off.
• 17:04
  Andrew Freeburg: There's a little O-ring on there, so be careful, that has to be on there, if that O-ring's not on there.
• 17:10
  Andrew Freeburg: It does not work, but on that sensor itself, there's a screen.
• 17:15
  Andrew Freeburg: If that gets dirty, it's not going to sense the correct oil pressure.
• 17:22
  Andrew Freeburg: Just a heads up, you guys, that one bit me so hard, I was so embarrassed when I figured that one out, but it was one of those learning moments you just never forget, so…
• 17:34
  RM Instructor: And Noah says in the chat as well, saying, make sure the O-ring is on for the Cintronics. 100%, Noah.
• 17:43
  RM Instructor: When I used to do, technical support for Copeland, I got a few calls, and like, oh, I just installed… I just replaced the sensor, kept tripping off an oil failure control, I got a brand new sensor, plugged it right in, I remember this guy telling me, and he's like.
• 17:57
  RM Instructor: I actually get net oil pressure, so I got my… my… my gauge on here, just like you're saying, Andrew, say it's 90 PSI, and then on the crank is 50, so you should… he's like, I see 45 or 35 net PSI different… I got the differential.
• 18:13
  RM Instructor: But it keeps tripping off in oil.
• 18:15
  Andrew Freeburg: The problem is, would be that O-ring.
• 18:17
  RM Instructor: You know, because the O-ring separates it to tell the thing. If you don't have the O-ring there, it's just gonna… it's not gonna see any pressure differential, even though you have that pressure differential. And basically, when you buy a new one of those sensors.
• 18:29
  RM Instructor: that O-ring comes in, like, little plastic thing, so I said, look around for it, and he said he found it on the ground, so he just pulled it out, and it dropped on the ground, didn't even know it was in there, and that's fair if you never did that before.
• 18:39
  RM Instructor: Another thing that I learned was, upgrading. So, a lot of times, if you get a new, say, Copeland compressor, sometimes they'll come with a CoreSense protection on it.
• 18:52
  RM Instructor: So, their, legacy, the way it worked, they had the… I don't know if there was something before the Syntronic, then Syntronic 3, or Syntronic Plus, then Centronic 3, Syntronic 3+,
• 19:05
  RM Instructor: And then, Copeland, Diagnostics, and then the one that they have on there now is the Copeland Protection, I believe. Sorry, CoreSense Protection.
• 19:15
  RM Instructor: So if you've got a core sense protection, and you have… you're going to put it on here.
• 19:19
  RM Instructor: One of the things that I didn't know, and even a lot of people didn't know, is that these Cintronics here, they're two wires.
• 19:26
  RM Instructor: Okay, so when the compressor shuts off, that can shut off. Not a big deal.
• 19:31
  RM Instructor: Then it turns back on, it turns… powers back up. With the CoreSense protection, you need to power it all the time. So it's a 3-wire.
• 19:40
  RM Instructor: And I've had people where they put in these new compressors, and then the compressor shuts off, the module goes out, all of a sudden they get an alarm.
• 19:48
  RM Instructor: You know what I mean? Because you need to be powered, because it's doing your net oil pressure, it's doing your… your compressor overloads, it's doing discharge temperature, it's doing a lot of different things, so it needs to be powered all the time. So just remember that if you do that… that upgrade, and you're going from a Centronic to a CoreSense
• 20:06
  RM Instructor: protection, you're only going to have two wires going down to that. You're gonna need to pull a third wire, or pull a three-wire one.
• 20:13
  Andrew Freeburg: That's a great tip, I, I didn't know that, so that's awesome.
• 20:17
  RM Instructor: Yeah, we're learning something new all the time. And Eric says, on CO2 systems, always replace the O-ring, 100%, Eric. 100%. So, I've been doing a lot more research on that. Why? Because people send me pictures of these swollen O-rings, so…
• 20:31
  RM Instructor: If they're, like, a neoprene gasket and different types of rubber material, what happens is it absorbs that high-pressure CO2.
• 20:39
  RM Instructor: And so what happens, you pull it out, and it hits the atmosphere, and then it cracks, or they swell, and then you're trying to jam it back in there, and it just does it. And sometimes you can't. So, like, some people jam it in there and get it to work, but it's gonna leak.
• 20:51
  RM Instructor: it's… it's going to leak, and I've had people say it countless times, and I'm doing manufacturer trainings, or out there in fields. It's, that's a really, really good point, Eric.
• 21:03
  RM Instructor: What else can we talk about here on… on this, because I've got a few more pictures we can go through. Is there anything else that we can… we can talk about? Oh, the top one here.
• 21:11
  RM Instructor: Right here.
• 21:12
  RM Instructor: That one right there does not have a Schrader in it. So I remember when I was about a third year.
• 21:19
  RM Instructor: And I was like, okay, I need to check in the oil. They say, just go on the pump, take off the cap, and put your gauge on. So the compressor's running, I take off this top cap, the cap shoots, and oil starts flying out in my face. That day, I was wearing safety glasses, which was great. So stuck my thumb on it, I'm like, what the F is going on? You know what I mean? And…
• 21:36
  RM Instructor: I didn't know that there was no straighter in there. So that there is for if you're using, say, a pen, oil failure control, or a Danfoss, or a different control where you actually monitor through cap tubes, and not through, like, more of a mechanical, and not through the sensor.
• 21:54
  RM Instructor: Have you ever… that ever caught you off guard, Andrew?
• 21:57
  Andrew Freeburg: No, that's a pretty good story, though. I love those… I love hearing those stories. Really, the only time I see those being used…
• 22:05
  Andrew Freeburg: Outside of that is… remember the old oil coolers that they used to put on top of them? It looked like a radiator on top? Yeah. So that's… but you have to have another external port, but but yeah, that's… that's a pretty good story. I love… I love hearing stuff like that.
• 22:22
  Andrew Freeburg: But, oh, speaking of oil pumps, on a Copeland, the max net oil pressure you could receive is 60. You can't go…
• 22:32
  Andrew Freeburg: you shouldn't be going anything above that. So that's kind of a cool, fun fact. I've never seen them up but 60, I don't know if you guys or anybody here on the chat, has.
• 22:42
  Andrew Freeburg: But I've… I think I've seen 45 probably the highest, if I could remember right.
• 22:49
  Andrew Freeburg: But typically, it's not that.
• 22:53
  RM Instructor: I guess going… since we're on net oil pressure.
• 22:56
  Andrew Freeburg: The lowest I like to see is 20. If there's something lower than 20 PSI, there's something wrong. And that's where we gotta go in, diagnose, figure out what's going on, why is it low, I mean…
• 23:11
  Andrew Freeburg: It could be the actual oil pump itself, I mean, it's very rare. I've only had to replace one in my entire career, almost been doing this 20, 20 years now. So…
• 23:26
  Andrew Freeburg: Oh.
• 23:27
  Andrew Freeburg: Have you guys ever come across where you, something happened to the power, and then the electricians, or whoever it may be, actually swapped?
• 23:38
  Andrew Freeburg: The legs of power, and now you don't have oil pump pressure, or net oil, and then you swap the two legs back, and then you have oil pressure?
• 23:49
  Andrew Freeburg: Have you ever come across that, Trevor, or Eric, or anybody?
• 23:53
  RM Instructor: Yeah, I've heard… I've heard of it, yeah.
• 23:56
  Andrew Freeburg: Yeah, I came across that once, and they did something, the power pole busted, or blew, or whatever, and they swapped the legs, so then I had to swap.
• 24:05
  Andrew Freeburg: two of the legs at the… and then I had net oil pressure. It was the craziest thing, because I've heard stories about that, too, and I was like, there's no way, I don't believe it, because a pump is a pump, it doesn't matter if it pumps one way or another. But no, it is definitely true, because they get used to spinning in that one direction.
• 24:21
  Andrew Freeburg: And, yeah, that was… that was crazy.
• 24:25
  Erik Holland: That shouldn't matter with the turn direction on the motor, but of course, if it gets worn in over time, then you can have a… maybe have a difficulty, have it rotating the other way, because all the gears are worn into one direction.
• 24:39
  Erik Holland: But, yeah, normally with these gear pumps, it shouldn't matter at all, but it's a different matter if it's not a gear pump.
• 24:46
  Erik Holland: If it's some kind… some kind of other system, but I don't… I haven't seen any not using gear pumps, yet.
• 24:54
  RM Instructor: So I've had come across this multiple times. We get a call… I remember working in the inspection lab with,
• 25:02
  RM Instructor: my friend Bruce, this guy's an expert, and he used to take all the calls, he used to write all the reports for all the compressors, and I remember us talking about it multiple times, where they would call in, and they'd do a reno, and they switch to phase, and not one of them would pump oil, and they're like, what's going on? They're calling us, they're asking, what's wrong with all these compressors?
• 25:20
  RM Instructor: And then switch the phase, because it's 15 years running in that one direction, and it got wore in, and the other way, it just wouldn't pump. They're not getting any net oil pressure, so I've heard that for sure, and switching it back, but it shouldn't matter.
• 25:35
  RM Instructor: Now, another thing is, is that on some… I've talked to some technicians with some CO2 bits or compressors.
• 25:42
  RM Instructor: Where, if you spin them in one direction, you're gonna get, better net oil,
• 25:49
  RM Instructor: So, I can't remember if it was… I think it's the disc model as well. If they spin in a certain direction, you'll get better oil lubrication than another one. I can't remember if it's left or right. I'll have to look up my notes, because they were like.
• 26:02
  RM Instructor: all of a sudden, they lost oil pressure. I can't remember the… maybe it was a Kaiser Warren CO2 rack?
• 26:07
  RM Instructor: it doesn't even really matter, so I went in and I, emailed, Tobas, and I think it was Manuel, and maybe Phil, a bunch of bits or experts, and there's, depending on the direction, you get a little better splash.
• 26:24
  RM Instructor: And I don't… Yeah, I don't…
• 26:25
  Erik Holland: I don't think it's a splash, actually. What we have seen is we use, we don't use the float, like you do here, with the board float. We use this, Amazon OEM5, or the DECA, the new models, and we've seen if…
• 26:39
  Erik Holland: The compressor has been a little bit overfilled with oil, so you get close to the oil hitting the crank.
• 26:46
  Erik Holland: Then… then if you turn in one direction, then you have a tendency to push oil into the oil monitor.
• 26:53
  RM Instructor: So you cannot.
• 26:54
  Erik Holland: So, so get a false reading.
• 26:56
  RM Instructor: Okay, that could be… I didn't… I didn't get it explained like that, but that could be what they did explain, and I'm kind of… because this was over a year ago.
• 27:05
  RM Instructor: But they were running into an oil issue just like that, and when they switched the direction of the mixer, all of a sudden, their oil worked totally fine. They didn't run into an issue again, because they were changing all the inline filters, or all the filters, they checked the separator, that was good. They checked the reservoir, they did an oil test, they did the oil filter test.
• 27:26
  RM Instructor: they couldn't figure it out, and then they switched the… switched the direction of the compressor, and it started to work, so thank you, Eric, for that. Because you're saying when it splashes in, it throws oil into the…
• 27:37
  RM Instructor: Because you have the… the sensor is on the side of the compressor.
• 27:42
  Erik Holland: And of course, it should be on, you know, on your optimal oil level. That's the place you place it, of course. And you don't have that much space from that optimal oil level, or from full oil glass, up to your crankshaft.
• 27:58
  Erik Holland: And just the turbulence for the cranks you have running around pushes… pushes the oil to one side of the compressor.
• 28:05
  Erik Holland: So if you… if you happen to have it… yeah, what… yeah, exactly what you're drawing here. So if you…
• 28:11
  Erik Holland: Push the oil towards the oil sensor, you have a higher oil level than that side of the compressor.
• 28:17
  Erik Holland: It's not necessarily too high, but it's just getting shifted over to one side.
• 28:22
  RM Instructor: It makes sense, because when it's throwing it, it's throwing it, and it could… if it goes the other way, so you want to go it the opposite direction, you want to shoot it away from the OM,
• 28:32
  RM Instructor: 5 or OMT on me.
• 28:35
  Erik Holland: Normally, it's not an issue at all, but if you have oil issues like this, you see, okay, the sensor shows good oil, but you have an excessive wear in the compressors, or you can see there's bad lubrication, maybe swap two phases, and
• 28:50
  Erik Holland: And just see what happens.
• 28:52
  RM Instructor: Yeah, because it makes sense, because now, if we're going the other way, so if we're rotating towards that oil float, oil could come up, and we can shoot it right in there like that, and I can see that, where it's like, oh, we got a level, but really, realistically, we don't get a level.
• 29:07
  Erik Holland: Yeah, so that's what… we have seen that a couple of times, and changing the direction usually solves the problem.
• 29:16
  RM Instructor: Yeah, and I don't, go ahead.
• 29:19
  Andrew Freeburg: Is that usually on VFDs, or is that…
• 29:22
  Erik Holland: 12.
• 29:23
  Andrew Freeburg: It doesn't matter, you've seen it online. That's what I said.
• 29:25
  Erik Holland: Yeah, seen on everything, but yeah, mostly on the VST, because we use… we run them at, you know, overspeed, over-synchronous, so we run all the way up to 70 Hz, so then you got a lot of… you got a lot of motion inside the compressor, a lot of gas moving around, and a lot of oil…
• 29:43
  Andrew Freeburg: Interesting.
• 29:43
  Erik Holland: bungalow.
• 29:45
  Andrew Freeburg: Yeah, that… it makes total sense, and I was just sitting there thinking that a VFD could… I could see that affecting it, I guess, more than a non, or…
• 29:56
  Andrew Freeburg: one, so that's why I asked that, so cool. Awesome.
• 29:59
  RM Instructor: Yeah, so I… yeah, I think that's… that's important, because that's something that doesn't ha… you know, and it doesn't… 99… 98% of the time, 99% of the time, that will not happen. Doesn't matter what way it spins, but it… it can happen. Because I know there's probably millions of them out there that is rotating right at it, you know what I mean? They're totally fine, but it could… it could happen.
• 30:19
  Erik Holland: See, Noah's coming with a really pro tip, never change direction on a scroll.
• 30:24
  RM Instructor: Yeah, yeah. I love that, Noah.
• 30:28
  RM Instructor: For sure. And always have your gauges, doesn't matter even if it's a semi-hermetic, you should always have your gauges, or being checking your pressures when you're turning a compressor, when you're first starting up a system. Now, when you're on a rack, there's a lot of pressure transducers and stuff, but when you're on a, say, a Hussman protocol, and it's all scrolls, or a Keproi protocol, or a pre…
• 30:47
  RM Instructor: keep right rack, and it's all scrolls. You gotta have your gauges on there to make sure it's running the right direction, because you could have four compressors parallel, and 1, 2, and 3 are wired correctly. 4 is not wired correctly. You put your gauges just on the first one, everything looks good, your pressures look good, you know, compressor four turns on, and you're just like, okay, well, it must be good. You gotta actually put your gauges on, so Noah, great tip.
• 31:11
  RM Instructor: Great tip, because that… that there is going to cause a massive amount of issues.
• 31:16
  Noah Walker: Yeah, I just wanted to share that, because I know last year I ran a service call for a condensing unit, and kind of looked like the contactor was changed, and the…
• 31:26
  Noah Walker: the scroll was running backwards, so I just… I know we were talking about switching rotation, but can only do that on semi-Hermetics, not scrolls.
• 31:34
  RM Instructor: Yeah, 100%. So, don't want anybody to take that the wrong way, and…
• 31:38
  Noah Walker: Start doing that on a scroll compressor.
• 31:41
  RM Instructor: Yeah, the only time you're gonna, I would say, switch the phases on a scroll. So, I've seen this happen before where they lock up. So, what'll happen is there's a lot of pressure inside the scrolls, and they will not separate.
• 31:56
  RM Instructor: And they're stuck. So, and the compressor trips off. So, a lot of people will take a hammer, and I'll hit it with a mallet or something, you know, this is before you're gonna cut it, because you're at the point where I'm gonna cut it out anyway, and I'm gonna replace this compressor.
• 32:10
  RM Instructor: So one thing you can do is switch the phases and then see if it unlocks it. Most likely, there's something going on mechanically, you're gonna have to replace that compressor anyway, but I've seen people do that, switch the phases, it unlocks it, then switch them back, and then all of a sudden you get some compression. And once again, it's kind of like that Bitzer thing where you're throwing the oil and you're getting false readings. It only happens, like, one and…
• 32:33
  RM Instructor: a million, who knows, you know what I mean? So… but that… I've seen that happen where they locked up, and that's really the only time you'll switch.
• 32:40
  Erik Holland: switch the phases. Yeah, it's more like a Friday night hack, you know, right?
• 32:45
  RM Instructor: Yeah.
• 32:46
  RM Instructor: Because you want to get through the weekend.
• 32:48
  Andrew Freeburg: It's Monday.
• 32:49
  RM Instructor: Yeah, you get… you get through the weekend, so on Monday you can replace it, you know what I mean? And that's… it's something that, you know, it's…
• 32:57
  RM Instructor: you probably won't see this in your career, you know? It's like, because there's so many out there, kind of like Andrew said that he's… he's never heard of that switching the… the… I need 3 lines, 3 legs for a CoreSense versus a Centronic, you know what I mean? And Andrew's been working on this stuff for 18 years, you know, so it's…
• 33:16
  RM Instructor: We just learn about this over time, and…
• 33:20
  RM Instructor: it's, it's interesting to find this stuff out, because, I've had lots of people that say, oh, that… that could never happen, or on one of my posts the other day, it's like.
• 33:29
  RM Instructor: I've never had a set of TX valve. Every time an coil comes, they're already set, the TX valves. That's what people say, like, all… so they're working probably in…
• 33:41
  RM Instructor: small, like, they got cap tubes or something, you know what I mean? Or they're working on, like, a little tiny system where he comes packaged, but I know for sure, I've installed so many evaporators, and there's no TX valve, I gotta burn the TX valve in. That is not set, you know what I mean? And supermarket, I've set hundreds and hundreds of valves.
• 33:58
  RM Instructor: So it's just different applications, but they're like, I've been doing this for 30 years, and I've never had to adjust or set a TX valve. It always comes from the manufacturer, already preset.
• 34:08
  RM Instructor: So… I'm like, oh, you ever do a retrofit from R22 to 407C? Or 404 to 448?
• 34:17
  Andrew Freeburg: Yeah, I mean, that's just… that's just common items, but, you know, conversations like these right here, this is what makes refrigeration so fun, is that you got different stories, I got different stories, everybody has different stories, and we get to talk about it, and then you can take this and put it in your back pocket, because you never know.
• 34:34
  RM Instructor: Yeah, I love it too. So, here we got a blown oil separator filter, and then I got an oil separator aid here. So, we can see this… this here, this one's a Westermeyer. It could be, you know, so you get your… we got our flow coming in through here.
• 34:50
  RM Instructor: You know, our high-pressure discharge gas, it comes out, and then we have
• 34:54
  RM Instructor: The oil that comes out here.
• 34:57
  RM Instructor: And it drops down in here, and then now we can feed…
• 35:00
  RM Instructor: Our oil out, and then our discharge gas goes out to wherever it needs to go.
• 35:06
  RM Instructor: Basically, these are here to separate the oil. We know that. That's pretty straightforward. That hasn't changed from HFC…
• 35:15
  RM Instructor: to CO2.
• 35:16
  RM Instructor: You know what I mean? Another thing that doesn't change is the pressure differential across this.
• 35:23
  RM Instructor: You know, we need to check that pressure differential, we need to check the pressure here.
• 35:27
  RM Instructor: And we need to check the pressure here, and then that gives us our PSID, or our BARD.
• 35:33
  RM Instructor: Andrew, you want to talk a little bit about, some of the things you teach on, separators?
• 35:40
  Andrew Freeburg: Yeah, the separator is exactly what that does. There always should be… there should be a pressure drop across that, even if it's minimal. I mean…
• 35:50
  Andrew Freeburg: 1, 2, 3 psi. That's the difference, and that's when we know that it's working.
• 35:57
  Andrew Freeburg: That should go all the way up, and the manufacturers recommend 13 psi differential. As soon as you hit that 13, it's time to change. The filter, because it's starting to plug up, and it's just, you know, regular maintenance.
• 36:14
  Andrew Freeburg: Beyond 13, I believe they can go up to right around, roughly, 25 psi difference, and that's when, that first photo that you showed.
• 36:25
  Andrew Freeburg: would split. And, now you have zero PSI difference, when that occurs.
• 36:32
  Andrew Freeburg: And if you don't have zero… or if you have zero PSI, then it's not separating, so where does that oil go? Out of the system, and then you get your oil fails, your low oil reservoir alarms, so then everything starts to happening like that.
• 36:50
  Andrew Freeburg: So definitely make sure you have some sort of pressure difference, but obviously not too high in itself, so…
• 36:59
  Andrew Freeburg: I think, there… some rack manufacturers, I should say, recommend changing this every year. That should be in your maintenance programs, that's what I push for my customers, my boss, or whatever we're trying to do for CO2.
• 37:14
  Andrew Freeburg: systems out there. I think, Eric, you got anything else you wanna…
• 37:20
  Andrew Freeburg: add on that, I'm sure you… you…
• 37:22
  Erik Holland: And got some stuff. Yeah, we have the same services a lot on this, once a year, recommended, or…
• 37:29
  Erik Holland: at least… not necessarily change it, but at least just check your delta pressures, yeah. So, if your delta pressure is okay, then leave it be, because then everything is working as it should. So, and again, every time you open anything, it should introduce pollutants and gases and…
• 37:48
  Erik Holland: break the O-rings and all that stuff, so, yeah.
• 37:51
  Erik Holland: Of course, it's good for spare part saves, but, what's more important? So…
• 37:56
  RM Instructor: Yeah, that's… that's the thing, and I agree with you there. Like, I used to be like, okay, change it once a year, but I think checking it, at least checking it, and… because if you don't need to replace it, the best system is a system that's never open.
• 38:08
  RM Instructor: The best system is a system that you don't put gauges on, you don't open it up. That's why you see in, like, your… in your fridge in your house.
• 38:17
  RM Instructor: You never run… you re… usually never, ever run into an issue into those systems.
• 38:23
  Erik Holland: I run short.
• 38:23
  Erik Holland: It runs for 20 years, right?
• 38:26
  RM Instructor: You know what I mean? You don't have a problem. But when we go to a supermarket rack, or a CO2 rack, all of a sudden, in 3 months, you've got issues, because there's a lot of fingers in there, and lots of people, oh, well, there's so many pipes, blah blah blah. It doesn't matter if you've done perfect, to the T,
• 38:41
  RM Instructor: exactly to the T, every leak fix, you do a deep evacuation, you start it up properly, all the sensor checks set up, running properly. You don't have issues with these supermarket, HFC, CO2 systems, they'll just run.
• 38:54
  RM Instructor: And there's systems out there that have been running for 20 or 30 years, and really barely any problems with them, because I talk to people about this stuff, you know? Does things fail?
• 39:03
  RM Instructor: For sure. But the less hands, the less time is open, that system is gonna… that's gonna usually always run better.
• 39:11
  Erik Holland: Exactly, yeah.
• 39:13
  Erik Holland: And we… actually, now you have here a separator with a filter insert. We're starting to use new models where you don't have any replaceable parts in it. You don't have any service parts in them. It's just working as a, you know, like a cyclone system.
• 39:30
  Erik Holland: So you just use the velocity of the gas to separate. It expresses the oil to the walls, and it drips down.
• 39:37
  RM Instructor: Yep.
• 39:38
  Erik Holland: That is a fully hemoretical sealed unit, very nice one to use, and… Fresh baked.
• 39:46
  Erik Holland: It's a techno.
• 39:49
  RM Instructor: Which one is it, sorry?
• 39:50
  Erik Holland: Techmar, I think it's called. Techmar.
• 39:53
  RM Instructor: because I've seen Western Meyer has some of those, they're centrifugal ones. Are they also the oil separator as well? Is it a… oh, sorry, oil reservoir as well? Does it act as an oil reservoir?
• 40:02
  Erik Holland: Yeah, we… yeah, we also use them as the reservoir, on smaller systems. Bigger systems, we have a separate, reservoir for it, but on smaller systems, we can use it as a reservoir. So, and it's… this one here, or you also can get models from, Kali,
• 40:19
  Erik Holland: A lot of different suppliers of this equipment.
• 40:23
  Andrew Freeburg: And this is on CO2, or just…
• 40:25
  RM Instructor: Yup.
• 40:26
  Erik Holland: That's on CO2, yeah.
• 40:28
  Andrew Freeburg: Wow, I didn't even know that.
• 40:29
  Erik Holland: So, so that's… that's rated for 100… 140 bar, or will that be 6,000-something psi?
• 40:36
  RM Instructor: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 40:37
  Andrew Freeburg: That's cool.
• 40:38
  RM Instructor: Yeah, so that's… that's the… that's the thing. I've seen lots of stuff. I've learned a ton of stuff from Eric and Advancer over the years, and I've taken some pictures, and, like, people are like, no, they don't have, oil reservoir separators and CO2, and I'm like, well, it's right here, you know what I mean?
• 40:55
  Andrew Freeburg: Yeah.
• 40:55
  RM Instructor: This stuff is… and as we continue to evolve, once again, this is newer.
• 41:00
  RM Instructor: Because people say, oh, well, CO2 is so expensive, and blah blah blah, this and that, but we're only 20, 25 years in. And really, it's not even 25, we're 25 years in, but the last 10 years is really when technology started to evolve, because more manufacturers are making the components.
• 41:15
  RM Instructor: You know, CO2 has been around since the late 80s, early 90s, but really, I say in the last 10 years, a huge amount of advancement, because more manufacturers are making more components.
• 41:27
  RM Instructor: 3-way valves, high-pressure valves, different controllers, and we're gonna see, in the next 20 years, a huge advancement in CO2, which is great to see.
• 41:37
  Erik Holland: without trying to sound like an old fart or anything, but when I started doing all the CO2 stuff, there was basically just normal air gas components that were upgraded in pressure.
• 41:49
  Erik Holland: So it's just pressure rated for higher pressure, that's the stuff we had to work with. There were no components. We have to invent everything together with the suppliers.
• 41:59
  RM Instructor: Yeah, and that's the thing, and now, as we continue to evolve, we're gonna see CO2 systems get more efficient, they're gonna get… the components are gonna become less expensive than what they were when they first come out. It's like anything. Like, and people talk to me, oh, is CO2 gonna stay? I'm like…
• 42:17
  RM Instructor: HFC's component's been around for how long, Andrew? 50 years, 60 years, TX valves, you know what I mean? And I have people say, oh, well, they should go back to mechanical valves and get rid of those, very complicated EEVs. I'm just like…
• 42:32
  RM Instructor: You can do so much with an EV now. You can actually go change a whole store's settings remotely to actually run a system properly. People… a lot of people don't understand that, your settings in the summertime for your whole rack and your whole system should be potentially different than the wintertime.
• 42:50
  RM Instructor: It actually shouldn't… it should be different, because it's different conditions.
• 42:55
  RM Instructor: So we can change that all in a couple of pushes, where you can't do that with a TX valve.
• 43:00
  Erik Holland: Most of the newer systems already automatically adapt to the other conditions. They have adaptive superheat controllers and everything, so it will automatically adapt to the environment.
• 43:15
  RM Instructor: Yeah, and that's the biggest difference, because you're not going to go in and adjust every TX valve twice a year in a supermarket, you know what I mean? No. But you can do that… but realistically, if you want the most efficient system, that's what you would have did.
• 43:30
  RM Instructor: Like, if you want your system to run effectively, it would… you would have went in and done a bunch of fine-tuning.
• 43:37
  RM Instructor: But now you can do that fine-tuning.
• 43:39
  RM Instructor: Remotely, you can do it year-round.
• 43:42
  Erik Holland: remotely, I even just let the machine handle it by itself, just run some algorithms and figure out what is my optimum suction pressure for this operation I'm in now, and what's the best superheat, and all that stuff.
• 43:55
  RM Instructor: Yeah, and yeah, you're right, you don't even have to do it, it's done by the machine. Once again, I still believe these controllers are still more advanced. I've seen it when I worked at Copeland, too, like, some of their controllers that came out in the mid-2000s, I'm just…
• 44:10
  RM Instructor: blown away on that technology there. Like, they had the CoreSense diagnostics. It was like a 1700… it was almost the same price as a compressor, but it did everything. Liquid injection, or demand cooling, it did high pressure, low pressure.
• 44:25
  RM Instructor: It did, overheat, it did all the relays, demand input, current sensing, voltage sensing. This was 20 years ago!
• 44:34
  RM Instructor: It didn't take off because people didn't want to pay for it, the technology, but that there would have saved customers a lot of money, and because there's so many compressors being replaced, because
• 44:44
  RM Instructor: tech… some technicians don't understand what the failure was, where a device like that would tell you, it spits it out, what the issue is. Now you're starting… you see Bitzer with the Bitzer IQ. Like, Copeland had that way ahead of their time, like.
• 44:56
  Erik Holland: But.
• 44:56
  RM Instructor: Bitzer could have had it, you know, maybe 20 years ago, but I didn't see it on the market where Copeland tried to do this, and their whole electronic team, I was trained by all of them, I know that was dismantled years and years ago, but those early technologies were amazing. Same with Danfoss. Danfoss got so much amazing technology and some under control, and not even being used.
• 45:15
  RM Instructor: You know what I mean? It's not even… like, people put in their case controller, and you can do adaptive super… or flooded coils so much to maximize that coil. It's not even being used. The XL, the same thing. Mother's the same thing. People just don't understand the technologies right now, where we're starting to evolve to a point
• 45:33
  RM Instructor: Where we're starting to have,
• 45:36
  RM Instructor: commissioning, we're having contractors, we're having other people now, just like Eric's doing, is getting the system to run as most optimal. And this is all because of CO2, you know what I mean? This is all because of the evolution of CO2.
• 45:50
  Erik Holland: I don't.
• 45:50
  RM Instructor: Go ahead, man.
• 45:52
  Noah Walker: Yeah, I think, customers are starting to, realize how more efficient they can be, and they're willing to spend the money. Like, we have a store up here, you know, a big store that's in CO2, Aldi, and they just said that they're gonna start putting ejectors on our, the new racks that are coming in Michigan.
• 46:14
  Noah Walker: So…
• 46:15
  Noah Walker: a lot of the, you know, the racks they have here, we don't have any parallel compression, no ejectors or anything, but I think they're starting to realize that they can save a lot more money and be a lot more efficient, you know, if they use some of these new technologies.
• 46:30
  RM Instructor: Oh, for sure. And, like, it's not… honestly, it's not new, it's new to us.
• 46:35
  RM Instructor: But, like, Eric's been using ejectors for, I don't even know, a decade now? Maybe not that long, but for a long time.
• 46:41
  Erik Holland: For a long time, yeah, not a decade, but we have used them for quite some time, yeah, 5, 6 years.
• 46:47
  RM Instructor: Yeah, and it'.
• 46:48
  Noah Walker: Yeah, but I… Oh, go ahead.
• 46:50
  RM Instructor: No goal.
• 46:51
  Noah Walker: No, I was just saying, I was just saying, I think they weren't, like, doing it because…
• 46:55
  Noah Walker: of the cost, right? And now they're starting to see how much money they're spending, and how hard, you know, some CO2 racks run in 90-plus degree weather in the summer. And… yeah, so I think they're… they're changing… they're changing the way they do their racks.
• 47:12
  Erik Holland: Yeah, and the way to get into that market, to convince the stores, they have to change over to this, because they can save a lot of money just on electricity bills, just by changing into these ejector systems in hot climates. So, that's a lot… that's a lot of,
• 47:31
  Erik Holland: Benefits for it, but of course, it's a more expensive installation.
• 47:35
  Erik Holland: So, the initial cost is quite high, but the running cost is very low.
• 47:41
  Erik Holland: Now we're moving out of a tangent… back to your old system, Trevor.
• 47:46
  RM Instructor: Yeah, no, and no, this is good. This is good, though. This is helpful for everyone, right? Because as we evolve, and like, even… even when we talk about these separators, these aren't anything that are new. This… these are the… this separator right here, this Western Meyer, is the same thing as they had for HSE. It's thicker, it got more bolts.
• 48:05
  RM Instructor: you know, it's designed heftier, but it's doing the same purpose as the one for the HFC system. And then, you know, we're seeing the evolution of oil management into, you know, Eric called it a cyclone, or a centrifugal, I'm not sure that if they're exactly the same, or what the difference is, but it's this…
• 48:24
  RM Instructor: Same terminology, the velocity's pushing all that oil against the walls.
• 48:28
  Andrew Freeburg: So what happens when you get in, like, a low ambient situation, your VFD starts to drop out? I mean, on that, because you have experienced that, I've never seen that on a CO2 rack yet, but if your mass flow drops, so you're not spinning as hard, right?
• 48:47
  Andrew Freeburg: Is that…
• 48:49
  Andrew Freeburg: Still take out, let's say, 90% of that oil, or does that drop to, like, only 50 or 40%?
• 48:56
  Erik Holland: That would definitely change. That would definitely change, because now you don't have the velocity, so you don't get the centrifugal effect anymore, but the Tevo guys, of course, have thought about that, so they added, like, a stainless steel sponge inside.
• 49:11
  Erik Holland: So that sponge, now the sponge will catch the oil drops.
• 49:15
  Erik Holland: at a lower velocity, at a high velocity, it would just pass through, because it's just coming in so far. But at lower velocities, then the oil would be caught in that sponge, and then drip down to the bottom again, so it's a dual function thing.
• 49:31
  Andrew Freeburg: I'm gonna look this up, what was that brand that you called it again?
• 49:35
  Erik Holland: There was a checkmark, I think… Mumbo.
• 49:40
  RM Instructor: I'll, like, I'll look it up.
• 49:42
  Erik Holland: Oh, sorry, check neck.
• 49:45
  RM Instructor: TechMac. I know that, Western Myers come out with one a couple years ago, I don't know how many they have in the field.
• 49:52
  Erik Holland: Carly also do have the same systems, where you have a Cyclone or a sensor-fugal system combined with the spongy system.
• 50:01
  RM Instructor: Yeah.
• 50:02
  RM Instructor: Oh, we'll try it out.
• 50:04
  RM Instructor: There's a huge amount of value here. And once again, if you're listening on the podcast, go check out the video on YouTube, but come to the community. This is what we're learning, we're trying to help and share our knowledge.
• 50:16
  RM Instructor: Andrew, Eric, Noah, thank you for sharing some of your knowledge, really appreciate this. This is definitely helping the community, the people inside it, and if we can get a little bit better today for tomorrow, this is the game-changing stuff, so…
• 50:28
  RM Instructor: go check refrigerationMentor.com slash hub if you want to learn more about what we're doing here, trying to help the industry, help more technicians. Andrew, any final thoughts?
• 50:39
  Andrew Freeburg: Yeah, as far as oil management, goes, if you are having oil issues, definitely reach out in the community. We'd love to help you guys out. And then, just take your time, be patient with yourself, and we'll, we'll get this for you.
• 50:57
  Andrew Freeburg: Yeah.
• 50:58
  RM Instructor: Awesome, Andrew. Eric, any final thoughts?
• 51:01
  Erik Holland: Save us, Andrew, just, you know, reach out if you have any issues, because everybody meets this from time to time.
• 51:09
  Erik Holland: So just, just observe your system, how it's working. Again, my, my, my, my, my…
• 51:15
  Erik Holland: Coming back to my chair again, the important tool, your chair, sit down, observe what's happening.
• 51:21
  RM Instructor: I love that. Noah, any final thoughts?
• 51:26
  Noah Walker: Yeah, pretty much just everything that, you know, those guys said. Just, if you have questions, just reach out to someone, and just always remember, just, you know, oil doesn't disappear, so, don't just add oil.
• 51:38
  RM Instructor: I love that, I love that. Okay, fantastic conversation today for the community, looking forward to chatting with all of you, and we'll see you at the next community meetup. See you soon.
• 51:48
  Erik Holland: Do us.
• 51:48
  Andrew Freeburg: y'all.