Latest / The Unconducted Curriculum / Episode 9: The degree gets you in the door, but the real education begins when the door closes

Transcript

Episode 9: The degree gets you in the door, but the real education begins when the door closes · The Unconducted Curriculum

• Chris McLellan: Welcome to episode nine of the Unconducted Curriculum Podcast. The title of this episode is The Degree Gets You In the Door. The real education starts when the door closes. And today we have four recent graduates, that I happen to be their supervisor during their student teaching and still mentor some of these guys even today and we're going to talk about a lot of things that, you learn in college, but What is the reality of that once you get into your job? And so a music education degree teaches you how to teach music, but the first year in the classroom can reveal an entirely different curriculum. Parents, budgets, paperwork, classroom management, recruiting, difficult conversations, and the countless small decisions nobody mentioned in college. So this episode asks four young band directors, what did you learn on the job that you wish someone had taught you in college? And so we're gonna go ahead and let our our four guests introduce themselves and we're gonna start with Brooke. Brooke Lane: Hi, my name is Brooke Lane. I'm currently the assistant high school director at Godley High School. this is my first year teaching, so I've been teaching for about two ish months now. I graduated from Charlton this past December, and before that I was at LD Bell High School. Chris McLellan: Great. And Tyler? Tyler Lewis: Hey, I'm Tyler Lewis. I'm entering my fourth year of music education. I'm also a graduate of Tarleton State University. I spent my first two years in Dawson ISD as the director of bands there. and I'm currently in my second year as an assistant at La Vega ISD Chris McLellan: Okay, cool. Marco. Marco Rodriguez: Hi, I'm Marco Rodriguez. I'm the head band director of the Brock Junior High Band and Brock I S D. I am in my third year of teaching. I came out of Charlton State University and also came out of this same hometown, Steamville, Texas, for high school. Chris McLellan: Perfect. And Hunter? Hunter Steele: I I'm Hunter Steele. I'm in my second year of teaching. Also went to Tarleton. I went to high school on Lampasas and that's where I currently am the the head middle school bandur. Chris McLellan: All right. So we've got a little bit of different experience levels from each of these folks. they are coincidentally all teaching in 4A school systems, which I think is kind of cool because it gives a perspective from a kind of a middle-sized district. and we can kind of see how their experiences differ, even though they're at similarly sized schools. All right, so Let's get into this. first question that I have, and we'll start with Brooke, is what is one thing you encountered during your first year that made you think, wait, nobody taught me how to do this? Brooke Lane: I I think the biggest one for me is probably instrument repair. I I'm a trumpet player, so like stuck valves, stuck slides, all of that, like I can do that. But I was not expecting, like, on my very first day at you know, in Gali to just be handed a random flute that like was not working and just tina: Yeah. Brooke Lane: being like, Hey, can you fix this? And just trying to figure out in a series of millions of buttons which one is causing an issue. So tina: Right. Brooke Lane: I was not expecting to have to be a repair person. tina: Well, I think with that, the biggest thing with that is watch everybody. Every like if you're if the person you're working with someone and they're a woodwind person, just watch them. I learned so much through the years of watching what they did with repair and and not being afraid of it and trying to find it, like you were saying, because you're not a woodwind person. You just find where that pad is, where that spring is, wherever, and see if you see something that's, out. But it is a mystery, but for me, it's kind of fun. I I love when somebody comes and does that and like, let me see. And then if I don't know, I go to yet an another band director. But but that's that is a a good thing, that the repair is part of what we do, but you know, it's it's learning all the little things that are quick to repair. So that's a good point. Chris McLellan: Yeah, that is a good point. and I know there's a few universities now that are starting to have a class on on instrument repair, tina: Yes, yes. Chris McLellan: but it's still very few and far between. And, like my first year, I was in a two A school all by myself, probably similar to Tyler, and yeah, I had no clue. As a percussionist, I really had no clue. it's like, what does this thing do? so You have to kind of learn that as you go and figure things out. But I was proud of myself at the end. Yeah. But during that first year, tina: Yeah. And you're not alone. You're not alone. Chris McLellan: I actually repadted a whole clarinet by myself and it actually worked. So tina: my. Wow. That is pretty good. Chris McLellan: yeah, I was like, wow, that was amazing. So but yeah. tina: Yep. One of my funniest lately was somehow, not gonna ask, a highlighter was stuck in a trumpet bill. And I just got a clothes hanger and yeah. Just experimented and it came out. I've had some weird ones. Yes. Yes. Brooke Lane: That's Chris McLellan: I won't tell you the the different things I yeah. I won't even talk about the different things I've found in bells of instruments. tina: But yeah. Chris McLellan: Tyler, what about you? What's something you encountered in your first year or in your first few years that nobody taught you? Tyler Lewis: I think for me, the biggest thing that I felt like I was kinda lost at, particularly in the the first year, but kind of leading up into that second year was just how to establish clear lanes of communication between myself and parents and the community. just being fully transparent, and just really clear in what I expected out of the students and Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Tyler Lewis: program needed from the community as well. Chris McLellan: Good. Yeah. And that's something that is so crucial. and I spent a lot of time in my career with communication. because when you're in that head director spot, or the only director spot, then you have to you have to have that, And it was it was at when I started teaching in nineteen ninety-three, didn't have really email yet. and personally like we had it at school, but not every parent had it, and so it was a lot of phone calls and still putting stamps on things and mailing home, and then at the end of my career it was weekly new newsletters through S'more and email, tina: Yes. S'more is great. Chris McLellan: you know, and all of that kind of stuff and social media posts and I mean every way you can imagine to tina: Right. It's a lot. Chris McLellan: get the information out, So that's changed a lot. Definitely changed a lot. But that is something tina: But I Chris McLellan: that is is yeah. tina: yeah, I do like the S'more. The SMOR app is really, really good. There's other ones out there, but SMOR is great for education. Also, like it saves like if you do that, it goes out at like six o'clock on Sundays or whatever, once a week. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: also like you can copy and paste and then reinsert dates and updates. And then if you keep it for the whole year, then you can go back and see what you've done for like the week before school starts and all that. It's great to have Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: something that you're using that goes out every week. Chris McLellan: Awesome. All right. So Marco, what's something that you've wish you had known before starting your career? Marco Rodriguez: I wish I this is what people always talk about, but I still had a a a tough time with day one setting having a very clear expectation, very clear standards, policies of my own that I that I felt true to myself with that I could share with my students and kinda pull them to that. And it just never happened on day one. And so the rest of the year, you can imagine no no clear expectation, no standards. It was it was a kind of a tough tough way to kind of rein in the kids and rein in the program and just rein in all of that. So I have heard about day one and how important that is and I've heard different things, but it it's Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: Mm-hmm. Marco Rodriguez: it on that first year it was It was tough and especially not really having a c a clear a clear Chris McLellan: Yeah. Marco Rodriguez: plan of my own going into tina: Mm-hmm. Marco Rodriguez: it. tina: I think that's pretty common, Chris McLellan: Well, and tina: yeah. Chris McLellan: yeah, that's that's the most common thing that I come across is tina: I think so too. Me too. Chris McLellan: you know, just classroom management and expectations and all that. And Marco, you and I've you know, we can be honest on this program. I mean, I've been your mentor for the last few years and we've been working on this and it's getting better each year. I think you you agree tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: with that and see that, but it's it's also, taking ideas that are presented to you and trying to figure out how to put that into a form that works for you. And tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: and that's that's where the the the time and the and the trial and error sometimes has to come into play. what works and what doesn't, And tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: I mean in my first few years of of teaching, I I remember my first two years specifically, classroom management was not good. the third year, it was much better in that I think it was just trial and error and figuring out what did and didn't work. I wasn't lucky enough to have anybody kind of help me walk me through that because either I was the only director or in my second year the head director was somebody who had more issues with that than I did. So it was, it's like learning what not to do a lot of the time. But yeah, that's definitely a very common thing. And we'll we'll kind of get into some of that in the next block with the classroom management. tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: Hunter, how about you? Hunter Steele: I sometimes wait until the last second to get things done and I have really had to learn that that doesn't work in the school. When you're like all through college you can you can wait if it's it's only affects you, you can wait till however long you need to. But when you're in charge of tina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hunter Steele: sending out schedules and emails and communicating with parents tina: Yeah. Hunter Steele: and putting in an order to buy something, you know, it's y Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Hunter Steele: it's figuring out school timing is something that you can't really learn. in college 'cause you have to send out the purchase request and then you have to wait for how long it takes for that purchase the stuff you ordered to get in. And by the time you tina: Mm. Hunter Steele: get something that you want, it you know, it's taken two weeks to get it. So for me that was that was kind of a a splash of cold water and I was like, hey, I need this on the calendar a week out and I thought a week out was plenty enough time. And for you know for public school, it's just not. And there's there's just no way Chris McLellan: No. Hunter Steele: you Yeah, no, it was tina: And also, Hunter, every school district is different. Some can do it quickly, some take two weeks, like you said, some take a month. You know, so it's basically, especially if you're going to a new school, you have to ask, ask around, ask the whoever handles it, like how long does a first source take? What's the procedure? All of that. But yeah, you're right. It's very shocking to figure out, I needed that a week ago. But yeah, it's planning that and that first year putting down exactly, where it needs to be and if you miss that deadline and your deadline for you that you can change it for next year to make sure that you can follow through. Yeah. Agreed totally different. Yes. It's crazy. Chris McLellan: Yeah. And that's true. Every school district is totally different. You know, I get and as someone who receives checks from multiple school districts on a regular basis, some are real quick. it's like you submit an invoice and then within a week you've got a a check. And then some, tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: I still haven't gotten paid from July, So it just depends, and and typically it's tina: Well, and some some districts open in September first and some don't. some open way before Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: that. And you're like, why September first when we've already had almost a month of school? Yeah. So it's different. Chris McLellan: A month Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Cool. So yeah, four very different answers, but all very applicable. tina: Mm-hmm. Good ones. Chris McLellan: So just a kind of a follow-up. How did you and we'll go in that same order? We're starting with Brooke. How did you did you feel embarrassed asking for help or not knowing what to do in this situation? and then who ultimately helped you or taught you to repair the flute or whatever we're talking about. Brooke Lane: I think the first few repairs I was able to just slowly work my way down the flute and just figure out what it was. But there's definitely some been some very odd repairs that I just for the life of me could not figure out. So I'm just very fortunate to have a very knowledgeable staff that I can go to who can also look for what they already know and help me out with that. So not they and they don't make it embarrassing whatsoever, which is really, really great. tina: That's great. Chris McLellan: Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, Tyler. Tyler Lewis: so for me and in my situation, it was a little bit unique in the fact that the the band program that I was in my first two years was going through some pretty major rebuilding. And so the the parents and community kind of didn't know what to expect. and so I could have gotten away with I guess a lot less communication than I should have been putting out. and so it was just a a combination for me of figuring out what I wanted my own standards to be. For me as a director, and also just talking to some local band directors, some local people that I trust and asking them what their processes were as far Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Tyler Lewis: as how they just went about pushing out letters, notices, communicating behavioral issues, all that stuff. And so it was about a two year process for me to just figure out what I wanted to do in terms of again, just communicating. Chris McLellan: Great. Awesome. Marco. Marco Rodriguez: it was pretty deflating not being able to know how to control a classroom for a few a year. And so over the past three years, it I've had great mentors, you know, the my staff that I work with. I I believe with the staff that I work with, I I have three other directors and it's like a combined total a hundred and fifteen years of experience. And they've just I know it's crazy. tina: It's great. Marco Rodriguez: that There are people that I can ask to help and I've had you, Ms. McClellan, come out and once a six weeks just kind of Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Marco Rodriguez: being my benchmark, the person that comes in and just sees where I was six weeks ago and where I am now. And it's just all types of I I'm very fortunate to have that help and I I feel like I've grown exponentially. and I I can see that in myself too with the whole managing a classroom Chris McLellan: Yeah, good. Yeah. And tina: Great. Chris McLellan: and and as someone who is mentoring you on a six weeks, every six weeks basis. And this is year three of us doing this, I mean, it's it's so rewarding for me to see your growth, And every time I come out to see the differences that you're making, not just not just from a classroom management standpoint, but from a a a directing standpoint, some of the things that you've you've changed that have helped you. and just to be proud of the fact that, your first two years out of college, you've been able to make sweepstakes with your junior high band, I I wasn't able to do that, I didn't make tina: Fuck. Chris McLellan: my first sweepstakes until year three. And so, just all the things that you have been able to do is is rewarding to see as well. So that's awesome. And yes, you do have a good circle of people to help you, And all kinds of information coming your way. So and I think that's the biggest thing, that we want everybody to kind of get out of these podcasts is that if you don't have people that are helping you, if you don't have a mentor, if you don't have somebody who can come in once in a while and just be that fresh set of eyes and ears or whatever, then you need to find that because that's an important part of growth that Is is much more common these days than when Tina and I started teaching. I don't that wasn't something that was happening at all. So awesome. All right, Hunter. Hunter Steele: I felt more embarrassed having to ask for people to help me make like fix the mistake from not being prepared enough. That was that's how I felt embarrassed my first year. I changed schools between my first year and second year. So the second year was I I never once felt embarrassed to do like what Tina said, go ask people like, hey, Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Hunter Steele: how long does this take? That that was not embarrassing. but tina: Yeah, no. Hunter Steele: the who taught the people that will taught me to do it the right way were were admin and you know the financial office. when they're like, Hey, we need you to do it the right way and and they're always very Chris McLellan: Ha ha ha. Hunter Steele: they're very kind and helpful when I'd be like, Okay, I'm sorry, tina: Right. Right. Hunter Steele: that was my mistake. Can you can you talk me through the right process? And I think that helps also build relationships with the admin, just be like, I'm sorry, help me fix it. tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: Yeah, I mean exactly. And that's something that, when I was at Springtown, we finally got our financial people to come to our a fine arts and service and say, This is how we do this. And yes, it's gonna be different from last year because ours seemed to change if not yearly, almost monthly, the way they wanted paperwork submitted. and I was like, Hey, I need you to come explain this to everybody because it's changing. too quickly and nobody knows what's going on, And so just to be able to have them kind of walk tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: you through that or give you a an information sheet, a guide, this is the process, because that's something that I don't think anybody gets, and you just have to tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: kind of figure it out and sometimes figure it out the hard way. tina: Some of the larger schools do have that, where you can kind of look up, how do you do this and how do you do that? They do have a lot of that. But what made me laugh just a second ago to myself was kind of the old school way, like even when I graduated college, bring donuts or cookies to your front Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: office, to your whoever does the financial part and your custodian. Like take care of those people that don't get recognized as much, by by bringing them that. But I mean, I think that's funny, but I but I also think that that's a memory that I have. But I always like, did something special for them, coffee, whatever, just to say, hey, thank you. And they will do more. if I call, hey, someone just threw up in the fan hall. I mean, they are there like that because they know tomorrow I'm gonna bring them donuts, because thank you for taking Chris McLellan: Yes. tina: care of that. But it's like it's all and it's also teaching the kids that too, take care of people that are in your life. You know, that really are helpful. So that's just something that I was taught in college to do. but it makes sense. It's people skills. Chris McLellan: Yeah. And for me it was a the dozen chocolate chip cookies was a, oops, I screwed up. Please forgive me. tina: Yes, that too, that too. please brush this PO through. Please, here's your cookies. But I mean seriously. Yes. Yep. Chris McLellan: Yes, please rush this PO through. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. tina: That was it. Chris McLellan: All right. Awesome. Well, we're going to move on to the next section. So Tina is going to run through classroom management questions. tina: management. And you know, it this the quote here says, I know how to teach music, but how do I get them to listen? so with all music education and what we do, our classroom can be from 30 to 60 to 90 kids all at once in a room. So it's very different in what we do. Also they have instruments in their hands and they're whatever. So management is a lot more in that aspect. But like and I know, that Marco, you've already talked a little bit about this, but What was your biggest classroom management surprise during like your first year? What was the biggest thing that surprised you, Brooke? Brooke Lane: I I think the biggest surprise for me was just I got very good at setting expectation and stating expectation, but it became like I was giving each student several warnings without actually following through on what the consequences were. So just learning that it's not mean to make students be quiet. It's not mean to make them follow the expectations that you're giving them, but it's necessary like to follow through with consequences so that they can learn from it and that we can have like an organized classroom. tina: No, it's true. And sometimes you are afraid, of being that mean teacher, But it they also respect that if you follow through with it, and also like rewarding the kids next to them somehow by saying, I love how Johnny's not talking right now and how they're sitting up so tall, first position or whatever it is, you know, that you're you're teaching or you're doing at that time. But it's okay, to do that because then we learn from each other and there's more of that, like I said, respect for the whole room, for your whole band team. So that's that's a good one. Chris McLellan: Well, and I think too, like we all I think we all feel that at some point, tina: Yes, we do. Chris McLellan: at the beginning of our careers, especially where we don't want our kids to tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: to not like us and we're afraid of kids quitting and all the things and we're afraid if we're mean to them. I say mean in quotes because it's that's what they'll say. you're being mean, you know. It's like, no, we're just have expectations. And I think the key to all of that too is being able to to enforce your expectations, but doing it in a way that is still nice, and you're not you don't get angry. It's not personal. It's just this is the consequence. This is what we have to do. And we'll go on from there. And you don't hold it over their head. They made a mistake. They pay the consequence, whatever that is, and we move on. And I think that's that's the thing that everybody has to understand. tina: you know, there's also you have to find you in this too, in this process. One thing Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: that the kids would always kind of laugh at me if someone was speaking out when they weren't supposed to or whatever, I'd get that teacher face, like, don't do that, or whatever. I'd like whatever, and I'd look kind of, you know, fierce and mean, and then they would stop and I'd go, Okay, we're ready, and I'll make this big smile and make like whatever, and then everything was normal again. But that was Miss Parr. I that's what I did, but it they all went, she meets business, and then boom, I'm back to going back to what we're doing and and keep going. But, you have to find what works for you and all of that to make it kind make it kind and everything. Tyler, what do you think? I'm sorry. Chris McLellan: And Tina well and Tina can do that. Yeah, she can do that because she's, nice and bubbly and has a pretty smile. And for me, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't tina: Yeah. thank you, Chris. Chris McLellan: that. It was I would tell a stupid dad joke after the the thing was over tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: with to let everybody know that okay, we're we're okay. We're back on track, tina: We're back. Yeah. Chris McLellan: So yeah, that's that's I say that just because you do have to find your own way of of tina: Find your own. Yeah. Chris McLellan: doing that. Yeah. All right. Tyler, are we to you? Tyler Lewis: I believe so. So tina: Ha ha ha. Tyler Lewis: leaning into that conversation that just happened, one of the things I really struggled with my first year, especially of band directing, was transitioning from like running college sectionals, tina: Yeah. Tyler Lewis: making sure that my peers were being accountable, and then like finding out that that process was not at all the same for Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Tyler Lewis: students at the high school level, junior high level, sixth grade level. so just trying to get away from fear-based teaching as much as possible, as quickly as possible, and really leaning into positive reinforcement. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Tyler Lewis: That has been so helpful for me. And then just another thing, just making sure, especially with beginners, that you're modeling the the correct things that you are expecting out of your students. For example, if I'm playing my instrument, modeling a good tone hand position technique for them, I also need to make sure I'm tapping my toe the way that I expect my beginner Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: Yes, I agree. Tyler Lewis: sitting the exact way I expect my beginners to, because they're gonna pick up a lot just by looking at someone that's an authority figure doing those things. And if you're not following through with that, then you're gonna get that out of your students. Chris McLellan: Yeah, yeah. And and none of us tina: Yeah, definitely. Chris McLellan: are Dizzy Gillespie, None of us are Dizzy Gillespie. So we can't play with big puffy cheeks and sound great, and say, Well, that's Dizzy Gillespie. We have to tina: Right. Chris McLellan: model what we teach, you know. So tina: Well and also if we're teaching an instrument that we might not sound as good as we want you could switch 'cause one time I had to teach trumpet beginners It did not sound great. So person came in and said, Why don't you use a euphonium? Picked up a euphonium, I sounded great. 'Cause you'd much rather them sound darker like a euphonium than a dying dog like I was on trumpet. You know, so you you're Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: right. You have to have that example, and what what is your strong point to be able to teach that class? I love that. Yeah. Chris McLellan: Well, and when I taught beginning trumpet class way back in the day, I mean, I I couldn't play above third space C on a trumpet. But if you gave me a flugel horn, I could. And so I taught beginning trumpet class on a flugel horn. And it was great. I mean, I had some great trumpet players, but that worked for me, and I was able to model tina: Yeah. Yes. Chris McLellan: better sounds and better range and all the things than if I had been on a a regular trumpet. So Yep. Perfect. Marco? Marco Rodriguez: The most surprising thing in my first year was realizing how easy it is to talk over an unfocused group. and especially someone like me who is trying to get things done as fast as possible in this group and feel like you have to get things done fast. That was a that was a tough pill to swallow realizing that these kids are not listening to me talking. And it it also I think the biggest pill to swallow too, and this this is me being vul vulnerable, because I know there's other young teachers listening, so that's important. whenever you, Chris, came out to I think it was first or second six weeks coming to Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Marco Rodriguez: school. And at the end of seeing me doing all this, poor things, talking over the class, and they're not no one's paying attention, and there's just all these things. You you walk up on the podium and you say, That was the worst class I've ever seen. In front of me, saw all my kids. And after that I went to the office and cried. tina: Mm. Marco Rodriguez: And and you were there to console me and you were there to you know it wa it wasn't no pity party. It was you you gave me what I needed to hear. And it it was it was better after that. And Chris McLellan: Well, and and the kids needed to hear it was the thing. You know, it's like Marco Rodriguez: Yeah, true. Yeah. Chris McLellan: the and they got better after that, you know? Yeah, tina: 'Cause it's it's their fault too. It is, yeah. Chris McLellan: yeah, it is. I mean, young teachers, I mean, we all struggle with that. And, I never had somebody that said, that's I mean, my first real challenge was in my second year teaching, and I inherited a middle school band. That had one class of 120 kids in it. And 20 of those kids didn't even play an instrument. They were AIDS. They just sold reads and passed out music and sat in the office and caused problems and talked and all this stuff. And that's what I inherited, And the previous director had used a long ranger and a microphone to speak to the band in a band hall no larger than yours in Brock. and I'm like, this, no, we're not doing this, So I had to figure that out pretty quick, But we all kind of go through that, and and sometimes it takes somebody saying, This is not the way this is supposed to go, And you could talk about that now. And I know that was a hard pill to swallow. I mean, I know that was that was that was a little tough, Marco Rodriguez: Yeah. Chris McLellan: That was, and and when I walked out of that that day too, I can remember going, I might have been a little harsh on on those Marco Rodriguez: Okay. Chris McLellan: guys, But the next time I came back, it was much better, you know. And and that's tina: Yeah, there you go. Well Chris McLellan: that's that's the thing. And sometimes we have to hear those those things that we don't want to hear. tina: You know when I I think, Marco, you bring it up like pacing that you think you should be farther than you are. But if you're very patient at the beginning and wait for them to stop talking, whatever your procedure is, once they learn what that procedure is, like stepping on the podium, maybe that they all go to first position and they're all quiet, and you don't Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: go on. It does take time at the beginning and you feel like you're wasting time. But what that does is it saves time because they just automatically start doing it where they're completely quiet and they're ready to go looking at you and so you can just go but it does take a little bit of time to do that so it's that patience thing but yeah I totally agree with you. Chris McLellan: It does. and we all also as young teachers talk more than we need to talk. we need to keep our our corrections. Yeah. Well, not just young, that but young teachers for sure. But yes, there's a lot of yeah, tina: Not just young Yeah. All of us. Yes, they do. Yes. Chris McLellan: that that want to talk and give longer explanations than a seventh grader is geared to to listen to. tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: and so when we stop, know exactly what we want to correct and then get right back into it. Don't give them those opportunities to start talking all that kind of stuff. tina: Hmm. Yeah, not no. No, keep your instrument keep their instruments up and freeze them, and say, Hey, that was good, but can y'all just better sounds. Focus your air at me. One, two, ready, go again. Then they can't talk. Their instruments, up to their mouth, up to their face. So yeah, all of those. Chris McLellan: Yep. Yep. All of those things. Hunter? Hunter Steele: I I really liked what y'all are saying about just just give way less time to do it. And that's that's something that I even got from the director of bands this year. That was the the feedback was hey your kids are doing good and you're spending a lot of time telling them how to do it the right way. And that's great that you're teaching them, but you do it every single time they make a mistake. And and then I was like, Can you show me how you would do that, with the middle school group? And so he stepped onto the podium for the next ensemble Marco Rodriguez: Okay. Hunter Steele: and he did it and it was just like a pickup of tina: Uh-huh. Hunter Steele: a and one of an eighth note into Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Hunter Steele: and he was like they they messed it up. We were working on a a stand tune, they messed it up there and he was like, do the and one. And he had him do it five times in a row. And they don't need they know what an eighth note is going into a beat one. And they just did it over and over again, those two notes until it was really solid. And then just put it back into the the relevant chunk and and afterwards we talked about it, he was like Do you see how we just did it? And they didn't need to be explained how to play an eighth note on the upbeat. And it there was it was a lot to to just to be like, okay, cool. And I've been trying that. and it it really is just so much more effective to be like, watch that rhythm, let's try it again. And again, cool, that was good, do it again. And that that way they know what they're fixing, and it's just so so much faster to fix it. You can get through so much more music. Chris McLellan: Yeah, yeah, exact exactly. You know, a lot of times we can just do things and not say things as much. And and that's the biggest difference between, your last four to five years before you become a band director, you're in college and you're in a college ensemble and your most recent understanding of how to teach band is from your college professors, how they teach a college band. And when you get in front of sixth graders and seventh and eighth graders. You can't teach like that. and I think that's what we have to learn is we have to be a lot more simple. We have to be a lot a lot less talking, a lot more doing and all those types of things. Yeah, having them play things. because that's what they're there for. And it's not that you want them repeating things just so they're not talking and they're not making any progress. I mean, you have to balance that out. But yeah, sometimes we we like to To give the whole theory of why this is you know, we don't need to do that. Yeah, tina: They just look at you like, Chris McLellan: yeah. Or they start talking to their neighbor about something else, So very good. tina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Chris McLellan: Awesome. So what classroom management strategy worked in college but didn't work with your actual students? So maybe something you learned in college as a classroom management strategy, but in the real world maybe not working so well? Does anybody have I don't I'll leave this open to anybody who wants to answer this one because you may not all have an answer to this, but does anybody have an idea on this one? Brooke Lane: I remember as an assignment in one of my classes, we had to make like a consequence board type thing. So after this many warnings, there was this consequence, this many warnings, this consequence. And like looking back, I think I put like three warnings about the same thing to get like a very, very minor punishment that like looking back now is I would like if the whole class did like had three warnings before they got any consequences, tina: That's all. Brooke Lane: it'd be Insane. Chris McLellan: Yeah. Well and and the keeping track of that too is like, my gosh, how are you gonna keep track of all that? tina: Mm-hmm. Mm-mm. Chris McLellan: So yeah, I mean that's that's definitely valid. and I think we we wanna give kids k chances to correct their behavior, but it can't take up our whole our whole class to deal with those types of things. Okay, so we we all have to deal with parent conversations, whether that's a good conversation or one that's not so tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: pleasant that we have to deal with. So we'll start with Brooke again. What was your first difficult parent interaction like? Brooke Lane: My first interaction was with a beginner at beginner saxophone player at sixth grade. just very early on in the year, he was just being very disruptive, very attention seeking behavior and just like very like unfazed by consequences by about like losing privileges to participate and things like that. and so I like reached out to his mom and just her response was just really, really informative of just like finding out he was acting out because his parents couldn't afford a saxophone for him. And he was really embarrassed just because he was the last one in the class to like get an instrument. And he was worried like he wouldn't be able to get one at all. And so he was just acting out out of just this fear of like being different and not being able to participate kind of in the same way in his mind. so just reaching out to the parent and finding out like an insight into that and just being able to help him get set up with the school instrument. and just ever since then he's just been like trying to help in any way he's can he can and just trying to like be the best version of himself just like very purposefully. And so just it was a very like scary moment 'cause I was afraid of a parent being like upset with me over like talking bad in a way about her son, saying he was being a little bit disruptive, but just it ended up being extremely helpful for that student. tina: Well one one great thing to do when you're having a student that's like that is ask them, when you see these behaviors, what works for y'all at home? What works for you? Because the parents love that. And that's kind of what you did, but what works at home for you? what can help me in the classroom? Because it just makes them feel like, you're really, trying to figure out my my kiddo and and be able to do what what works. And it it that's great. I'm glad that you did reach out, but the biggest thing is reaching out and what can they do Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: to help all of that? It's really good. Chris McLellan: Yeah. Tyler, what about you? Tyler Lewis: So I'm almost positive that both Marco and Hunter have heard this story before, but I'm gonna tell it to everybody. tina: Not everyone else has. Tyler Lewis: so my my first game as a as a DOB. it was a home game in Dawson. I had sent out so many times, I'm talking four or five times to parents, what like our summer uniform would be. we had a band shirt, we had or band shorts that were expected to be in that. the kids knew well ahead of time. The parents knew well ahead of time. I had one kid that showed up without their summer band uniform. Looking back on it, should I have had extra band out? Absolutely. Rookie mistake. but I was sticking to my guns. So anyways we Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Tyler Lewis: knew halftime. I had told the student, hey you will not be marching, you're gonna be an alternate for halftime because you are not in your summer band uniform. so we're in standby right by like our homeside fence watching the visiting band before perform. And I just hear like this belligerent yelling, just like so loud in my right ear. And so I turn around and this kid's grandpa is just yelling, Mr. Lewis, why is my kid not allowed to march? Blah blah blah. so that was in front of the band. I was like trying to get the band all hyped up and ready to go. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Tyler Lewis: and then this this guy just comes over and like gets almost in my face. and so I I ended up just like very calmly saying, sir, the the expectations for the summer band uniform were sent out via email, via band app, multiple newsletters home posted on social media. if your student does not have their summer band uniform, we can get him another one if he needs one. But he will not be marching in this halftime. And it was just a conflict back and forth. And so I eventually had to just be up front and say, if we can't speak respectfully, we're going to have to end this conversation. But feel free to contact me on Monday. And so Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Tyler Lewis: Wade, extremely irritated, you'll be hearing from me. but the resulting conversation that was had was a lot more respectful. that student in particular did not ever forget anything again, as long as I had him. and for the kids that that saw that situation unfold, they also knew that our standards were our standards. And so that was one conversation that I just vividly remember thinking, man, college did not prepare me for that interaction. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. tina: No, not at all. Chris McLellan: No. And we, you know, if you haven't already had that kind of confrontation with a parent or a grandparent, you will at some point in your career. You know, you will. tina: Yes. Yes you will. Sorry, but you will. Chris McLellan: You will. And and it always seems to happen at the most inopportune times, you know, and they wanna make a scene, they wanna make you look bad. that's their goal. and the key is to stay calm and like like you did, if we can't speak respectfully and that type of thing, then we're ending this conversation right now, and we can we can meet together in the principal's office on Monday, and have have that third party there to kind of, be an intermediate if you need to, But but yeah, and it sounds like you handed that handled that pretty well, and I don't think there's anything wrong with. having expectations and you've communicated those expectations. and there's two sides to that coin about should you have had extras for the kid, my thing was we did have extras. We had extra socks, we had extra gloves, we had extra everything, but the kid had to purchase it. if they forgot their black socks, they had to purchase another pair for $2 that And if they weren't in uniform and we had an inspection before we ever loaded the buses, which we loaded the buses for every football game because our stadium was across town. And so we had an inspection before every football game. And if kid didn't have something, I'd send them into the office and the assistant directors would help them get what they needed And some people were like, Well, you should have just told them they couldn't march. It's like, yeah, but. kids are going to make mistakes, and we had a we had a process for that. They still had to pay for it. and most of the kids, if they did that once, never forgot something again, because probably their parents are like, I'm not paying two more dollars for a pair of socks because you can't get your socks, So but I think that that you handled that pretty well, So kudos to you. Marco. Tyler Lewis: Thank you. Marco Rodriguez: one of my first parent interactions, this is overall, was at our Meet the Teacher my first year. And I you know, I wasn't there the year before obviously 'cause I 'cause these kids are coming in with their s their schedules, what what they're already playing, they know what they're playing already. And this this big kid, the boy, comes in with with his schedule and he's playing clarinet and his mom comes in comes in there with him and he's like My son's not playing clarity. She or sorry, he is not gonna play a woman's instrument. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Marco Rodriguez: And I And I you know, I was like, Okay. All right. I I didn't want to deal with it at that moment. I was like, okay, I'll I'll test him out another instrument and we'll see what we can do for him. And I could just ultimately didn't s end up starting the school year with us. And you know, that's okay. but that was that was a weird, very weird interaction that I just, you know, wasn't expecting in my first it was one of my first parent interactions, like one of the first parents that came in. And I was like, Okay, all right, starting off strong. So Chris McLellan: Well, and meet the teacher night is yeah, the you'll you'll get some of that, And and it's like it's not your fault. It's from a previous year. They tested back last spring. You're just the new face and they're gonna come tell you what's up. And we had that. I had kids, parents all the time, Well, if you're not gonna let them play drums, then they're just not gonna be in band. Okay. tina: Yep, a lot. Yeah. Chris McLellan: I hate to lose the student, but student couldn't put two drumsticks together if they were turkey legs. So I don't know if you know, it's like so you know, so we're we're tina: I like that. Wish Chris McLellan: we're not gonna we're not gonna go down that road, But but yeah, I mean that's that's just part of it. Hunter. Hunter Steele: Well, honestly, Marco's story and Tyler's story were like my A and B So I was thinking of like a I guess a different way to think of this. I really love how they reacted to it. That's just kind of how I like to approach things, is keep the peace with the parents as much as possible. that way they're on your side later. But on that same note about just trying to get the parents on team band is I there was this parent in my very first year of teaching that every teacher walked up to me and said, Hey, This this parent's gonna be really rough for you. And I was like, okay. And I'll thanks for the heads up. And it finally came came time where you know, with the scheduling thing, I hadn't sent something out in time and it this parent was very type A, and that's fine, I get it. And they were like, Hey, I'd like to, I'd like you to call me when you can. And I was like, I the first time I had gotten a parent request to call, so I took it to my principal and was like, Hey, just want to let you know this is going on, communicated with them. They're like, cool, just document how the conversation goes because it's probably gonna be pretty rough. So everyone around me was like, hey, this is gonna be bad, this is gonna be awful. And I I tried not to let it color how the conversation went. and I just started it out with very friendly, very positive. And it it did start out a little hostile. But as we went on, just talking to the parent, and she turned out to be very, very just invested in her kid's education, like you know, every parent. Probably is. or and over the year we got better about communicating and I would call that parent first because she that's what she requested. So I would you know, you can't do that for every parent, but I'd call them and be like, Hey, this is what's going on. You can expect to see this coming home with your kid. And over time I just won and I didn't have to do that for the entire year, but I won that parent over. So I guess what I'm saying is I'd I kinda would advise like have a caution about what you hear from other teachers. Because maybe the parent that you're hearing so much about had communicated what they want from the teacher and they just didn't get it. And then you can be the teacher that does that. And like I said, I that parent was on team band for the rest of the year, showed up to everything, offered to help for everything, sent a a glowing email to the principal, and she brought it to my office and was like, Hey, I've never seen this parent compliment any teacher ever. And I was like, all I did was call her. You know, so I'd Chris McLellan: Yeah. Hunter Steele: I think parent interactions Can be tense and they can be hard for a lot of teachers, but they don't have to be for you, even with the difficult parents, as long as you're Marco Rodriguez: Well. Hunter Steele: proactive about communicating as much as possible. Chris McLellan: Yeah, that's that's exactly right. And you know, it's kind of like we would always get these fifth grade teachers that would tell us with our beginners, coming up beginners, these kids, this class is horrible. You're they're they're not gonna be good band kids. Just be prepared, they're horrible. and it's kind of the same thing with parents. you hear these these rumors or these these reports about certain parents, and if you go into it believing that, then that's what you're gonna get, And if you go into a school year believing that these kids are gonna be awful, then that's what you're gonna get, But the reality was for us with the kids side of it, was they might have been a horrible fifth grade class, but they were a great band class, because we did do a good job of establishing procedures and all the things and consequences and stuff from day one, And so we didn't typically have those those big problems that we would hear about. and I think it's the same thing with parents. I mean, I had some Some parents that same thing, this parent's gonna be a thorn in your side, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, no, not, unless I choose to let them be, and it is, it's proactive. I mean, I had parents that got upset with me because their child didn't make drum major, and would call me and curse me out because their kid didn't make drum major and so and so didn't deserve to that type of thing. And I would just let them, get get it all out. And then I would calmly and respectfully answer their question and tell them my side of it and what it is. And and typically that would calm the situation down. I even had parents that told me, I can't get a rise out of you. You just don't get mad. It's like, no, I'm not gonna get mad. It's not worth getting mad and upset over. this is the facts of the of the case, so to speak, and this is What we did, and this is our policy, and you signed the handbook saying that you understand the policy. So, in my my view, I'm gonna let you, scream and yell and get it out. I'll be your sounding board, but it's not gonna change the decision because we have to be consistent, And so, yeah, I mean, and and that's the way it has to be approached. So yeah, good job, Hunter. Good job winning over a parent. tina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chris McLellan: Awesome. tina: Okay, now let's talk about like recruiting and retention. you know, like building the beginning band program and keeping them in in the program and loving everything about it and enjoying playing an instrument. So like tell me your experience on how you prepared for recruiting students to want to be curious about playing an instrument, Brook. Brooke Lane: so for me, this being my first year, I haven't really had the opportunity to get super into recruiting yet. we're looking forward to that for these upcoming months. but just as far as recruiting goes and like getting students interested, like visiting the elementaries and like just showing them, hey, like this is a trumpet, this is a flute, like this is something that makes noise. You love that kind of thing. And just like giving them a little bit of exposure to that so that they can start thinking about Maybe this is something that I wanna do w next year when I graduate new school. tina: Yeah, that's great. and I'm sorry I wasn't thinking about you being a first-year teacher in that aspect. But being a first-year teacher, what have you seen like from the start of day one up to like now of how to keep them cut wanting to come to class every day and and enjoying their van class every day? What have you seen in that aspect of the beginners? Brooke Lane: think just like getting them to buy into band and like understanding that like if they put the work in like they can get really good at the skill and like that it's a lot of fun to be good at something and it's a lot of fun to have a community of people around you who support each other. And so just trying to introduce them into like this concept of band is a family and just getting them to like want to be around that. tina: Yes. That's great. Yeah, that's really great. That y'all are just a big band team and a big band family. Love that. Tyler. Brooke Lane: Yeah. Tyler Lewis: for me, so recruiting starts at this point of the year. for my situation. so basically the way our classes are structured with our beginners is they're at our intermediate school and that's a fourth through sixth grade campus. And so just constantly every day walking through the hall, just trying to be visible, saying Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: Hmm, yeah. Tyler Lewis: warning to the students, just being a friendly face that they can recognize and trust goes a long way. The I found out with those students more procedurally based so we do our instrument testing starting right after our our high school goes to UIL. so we go to early UIL usually about March third. As soon as we're done with that I try to start getting students tested. I start with a an instrument demonstration just so the the students are at least aware of what each instrument looks and sounds like. I send home interest forms to parents That way they can get signed and returned. They fill out their their three most preferred instruments. The parents put down their contact information so that way I can formulate a a mass email list and push out updates to them. And then at that point I try to be really aware of just all the different things that you should be facial characteristics, dental setup, just tone quality on mouthpieces when I test students to make sure I'm placing them on the most successful possible instrument. and then we host two instrument drives and parent meetings, one in the spring semester and then one in the fall semester right before the school year starts that coincides with our Meet the Teacher night. And at those instrument drives, we promote instrument rentals, but I'm also available to speak with parents about exactly like why their student ended up on this instrument. And I have a slideshow detailing all the different criteria of how we determine to place a a student Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Tyler Lewis: instrument. So just tina: Mm, love that. Tyler Lewis: all those different lanes of communication coming together. really has made a difference for for my students and just being successful right from the start of band. And this past year from our sixth grade group, transitioning up into our seventh grade students, we retained over ninety percent of our sixth graders at La Vega. And so I feel like that setup really works well for us. tina: That's great. You know, any Chris McLellan: Yeah, sounds like it. tina: yeah, and any communication in the hallway or just waving, you know, all of that is huge. And also kids coming up to high five you, they see that. Tyler Lewis: Absolutely. tina: they like him, and then band is fun. That that is so important what they see outside of the classroom. So that's great. Marco. Marco Rodriguez: right now our our band program at Brock is you know, we're we're working on our numbers and I I I can see that and I recognize how important my role is to to get those numbers up in our program. So I usually start with when is when are the fifth graders going to sign up for their schedules for sixth grade and I found out it's gonna be always in February, typically. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Marco Rodriguez: It's pretty it's pretty early and that might be common, but to me that seems early. And and so my headband director, he he always did mailers, sends th things out to the mail and he he showed me how effective that could be and how fast I can do those things and it does take some some time, but it is worth it for for parents to be able to open open up their mail and see, hey, these things are going on, like the band's about to go to the intermediate to play for them on for like a Halloween little concert or a Christmas concert. And in in those little tidbits I give you know, important ban information that like research and and just things that will make parents want their kid decide for band. Like, the normal testing scores, the developing two sides of the brain, valedictorians. I mean our our our school has a pretty good history of of band kids being valictorians. So I definitely highlight that for our kids or for our parents. And then right around that February time, I like to go to the elementary class, the fifth grade class and teach a family instrument family lesson to the kids. So about like two to three weeks before we have our first instrument petting zoo. I'm kind of just putting that in their ears and just letting them Chris McLellan: Amen. Marco Rodriguez: actually try in front of the class what a p instrument petting zoo will look like. And so I just get hyped up about it. Like each time I go, I try to go once a week before before the that first instrument petting zoo and and just always tell Hey, when is this gonna happen again? February twentyth. And and so they just they know exactly when it's gonna happen. I'm getting hyped up about it so that I get good good amount of kids coming to that first petting zoom. And so I r really it's just getting getting yourself in front of the kids as much as possible. And then after that I last year was the first year I started a little recorder club after school for the fifth graders. And so just offering a little just it takes it takes more time, absolutely. It's I do it once a week for about an hour. But it's it's very worth it to to grow the program, to get more kids excited about wanting to Just give it try. And and once Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Marco Rodriguez: once they're there, I mean they're usually hooked. So it's tina: Mm. Marco Rodriguez: just getting getting the kids to to give it a try. So that's when something tina: Yeah, that's Chris McLellan: Yeah, that's the biggest challenge is getting tina: that's yeah. Chris McLellan: the getting the kids and the parents to come to the the tryouts and the in the information nights and tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: all that stuff. If you can get them in the door, you've got a much higher tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: chance of getting them in your programs. The ones that you miss because they don't come, And the when when you talk about recruiting, like you said, Marco, with the mailers, I mean, I think that's important. I think Before any student is in your program, you can't just send an email, you can't just send something home via the fifth grade class, from school. You have to you have to send home that mailer because this is their first exposure to your program, and and they'll check their mail and they may not check their email, things like that. And so I think that's a very important aspect of it. Once you get them in the program, and they understand the communication. systems, then that's different. But when they're in fifth grade, I think that's a that's a great place to start. Yeah. tina: Yeah. Yeah. And postcards work great. I what I've noticed is that, you Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: know, like the teachers for elementary school, the kindergarten teacher, the first grade, whatever, they send a postcard out introducing themselves to the students before school starts. and so us piggybacking on that for them to get that, like you're saying in like January or whatever is great because you know the parent gets all excited and shows them, look, this is from the band and you know, so they they have something in their hand to show them. It's really important to take the time to kind of do that. It works. Hunter. Hunter Steele: I just want to say I really like that idea. I'm probably gonna steal that this year because it's I have tina: Yeah. Yay. Hunter Steele: to think about I'm gonna I'm gonna talk about recruiting from Lampasas, where I'm at now, and then retention for my first school because retent recruiting in in Edgewood, my first year is easy. Sixth grade was all mandatory, so that's totally different. Marco Rodriguez: Yeah. tina: Mm. Hunter Steele: But in Lampassas we have three elementary campuses, so there's no way we can make it to all of them. One of them is twenty miles outside of town. between two towns. So there's just no way we can get to all of them. So what we have to do to start that process is kind of have a just a whole district wide fine arts meeting with all the elementary teachers and we talk about shaping the curriculum to really talk about band and get some counting in there and how it'll work and be like when you're counting you'll be playing your instrument and just try to tie it in go looking forward. there is no there's no other font like music programs in the middle school. We don't have a choir. So it it would be really easy to just shape that more towards band practices and that's what we talked about this year. We have to put like we have to dedicate a full week of instrument testing days so we can make it to all three of those campuses Marco Rodriguez: Yeah. Hunter Steele: and get through all the classes. Chris McLellan: Mm. Hunter Steele: and then we have a full backup week for that where all four directors on staff have to have to miss to go do that that stuff. So it's it is a whole process to get that done. and during during those instrument testing days, we do what Marco was talking about, where we just play something fun on the instrument. like I'll have a student one of those we'll bring some students with us sometimes be like, hey, someone play the Super Mario theme on your trumpet or something. Just get the kids talking think tina: Mm. Yeah. That's great. Hunter Steele: hearing something fun. but even as soon as two weeks into school, the high school sends the jazz band around all three elementary campuses and just gets them listening to different types of music. So we start our recruitment really early here in in Lempas, just getting the kids listening. And we we go over there and perform for the kids so so often. at the end of the year, we would have a big combined campus thing, I think, where all the elementary schools come together and listen to the high school band play like a bunch of movie music that the kids will relate to. It's not like we're not playing Shostakovich or anything like that. Nothing unrelatable to the kids. yeah. tina: Come on. That's great. Chris McLellan: Ha ha ha. Hunter Steele: So it's really, really fun, relatable music. And then re retention in Edgewood, we had, like I said, mandatory sixth grade. we had 91 kids in sixth grade. and I was the only teacher there and really just focus as for the middle school. It really just focused on making it as fun as possible. One of my favorite things to do was once the routines were established and the kids knew what was going on, was to when the kids were not were having a good focus day, was to let them Teach their own class and then just take a step back and let them run everything and see how much they absorbed. especially during after school band, we had a twice a week after school just come hang out, have a snack, and then go, let's go play our instrument just for fun. that was the best time to say, hey, who wants to be the band director for the day? And they just got so excited about being involved in their own education like that. and we ended the year with our whole program had in middle school had 120 kids and we only lost I think like twenty-three kids. And so we we're just having so much involvement and focus on fun, like growing while having fun, I think that's really what kept the kids coming back and not not making it negative when they needed to grow. the the culture was so so important for retention, just making sure the kids like like what Brooke said about like band as a family, but really teaching the kids that When someone else next to you makes a mistake, the world's not gonna explode or something like that. so that they know it's it's a safe place to be. No one's gonna judge them for growing and anything like that. So tina: Yeah, I think all of that. Yeah, Chris McLellan: Really good. Yeah. tina: all of y'all had some great points on all of that. But the main thing is that it it's your culture. And it's also making sure that they they can see your culture and see what you're doing and see that band is fun and that you get to learn to do so many things and be be a part of a a big group. So all of that is fabulous. Chris McLellan: Yeah, and the biggest thing I can say is, recruiting doesn't start, and I had to learn this the hard way. we would start recruiting, mid-March, April, when it at the beginning of my career. by the end of my career, recruiting started on the first day of the school year. I mean, it's it's continuous, you tina: Yes, it's true. Chris McLellan: and and our fifth graders were on the same campus as our sixth graders. So that made it little bit easier to to interact with them and things like that. but it it just starts from the very beginning and being in those classes as much as you can. I would step into the music class when I before and after I would go over to the sixth grade to teach my beginning percussion class, and I would step into the fifth grade music class and just say hi. And and we were fortunate that the music teacher the fifth grade music teacher on that campus was one of my former band directors who moved down to elementary music after she started having a family. And I'd walk in, hey, everybody say hello to Miss McClellan, and I would just say, hey, I'm looking forward to having you guys in band next year. And not even giving it like it's an option, just talking to them like this is what you're gonna do next year, and and just things like that. So being visible from day one, I think is is super important. tina: And and also like hearing what everyone is saying, there are different situations and finding out at the before Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: school starts, are you going to be on the same campus as elementary? Is it really close? Are there more than one? You know, finding all that out. Are there three elementary schools that feed into that school? Are there four? Are there two? Where are they? And getting to know the music teachers, literally saying, emails, getting to meet them if you can, going on their campuses, you know, that is very, very important. You know, finding out what is it for this district it'll help a bunch. Chris McLellan: Right. Well, let's have some fun. We've talked a lot about a bunch of serious stuff. All right. So tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: here's a question each of you gets to answer. and this is basically, your first concert performance disaster. Okay. tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: So think of think of a a performance or a concert that you've you've done. And Brooke, I know you probably haven't had a lot of opportunities with this yet, although you've done some pre full time teacher stuff. but can you think of a tell us about a performance that taught you the most? That's basically what we're getting at. What what was a disaster and what did you learn from it? Anything, Brooke? Brooke Lane: Yeah, so at the end of last year I was a long term sub at Godley. and so I was there for basically the entire process of the spring concert. so I got to pick all three pieces we played. I taught all three pieces and it was just like a super super informative experience. the concert, just like learning how to introduce each piece, just you know, kinda as a person like these parents had never seen before. And just like, hello, I've been teaching your students for the last few months. so just learning how to kind of introduce the process of like how to speak to parents during a concert, how to introduce pieces, and then just conducting a concert like live for the first time compared to the rehearsals, is just such a different experience and just understanding that like any mistakes, like they're just kind of in the past now because at the concert, once they're over, it's like you can't go back and do anything. Including when the bass drum plays Fortis E T Mo two Beats Lake. tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: Ha ha Brooke Lane: so Chris McLellan: ha. Hunter Steele: Yeah. tina: Yes. And it can happen. Yes. But you're right. Yeah. Yeah. Chris McLellan: Yes, it can. Brooke Lane: Yes. In Chris McLellan: It can definitely Brooke Lane: a gem as well. Chris McLellan: happen. Yep. Tyler, any tina: Yes it can. You know, and the most Chris McLellan: any funny funny performance things for you? Tyler Lewis: Yeah, so there are two for me. my first Christmas concert, my first year of teaching, I was just super super like excited to get started with concert season. There was a lot of good momentum going into concert season. I was like, Man, these kids can do so much. And so I just picked out it wasn't super crazy difficult or anything, but I picked out a program that I thought would be okay and it was not. just over programmed. And I stuck with my guns on the programming decisions and just it did not end up being the the end product that I I really thought was representative of the students. so that yes. So that that Chris McLellan: The r the recipe for disaster, yes. tina: Yes. Tyler Lewis: one experience now informs my entire process on programming any concert. I'm now extremely detailed about creating charts of strengths and weaknesses in each section. I look through scores. while listening to recordings, just marking down notes on what's gonna work, what would need a lot of work, stuff like that. So that was Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Tyler Lewis: a valuable learning experience for me. number two for me was my first UIL ever. so just going back to clear expectations with the students, I had three percussionists, one of which was just a like a first time percussionist in their senior year of high school. So basically we were in in the Darcy charts all year just to learn how to read rhythm correctly. Chris McLellan: Yeah, yeah. Tyler Lewis: warning of UIL, one of those percussionists was like, Mr. Lewis, I gotta go to a doctor's appointment. I'm not gonna be at UIL. And I was like, absolutely not. So that was just one of those like little jump scare moments where I had to get a little harsh with the student and he ended up showing up. It ended up being fine. We got our ones. But that was just another situation where I was like, Man, nobody Prepares you to have to deal with that. You would never even consider what Chris McLellan: Right. Tyler Lewis: happened, but I mean, now it's it's in the back of my mind because it happened. Chris McLellan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's I mean, when you're dealing with, tons of different kids with different backgrounds and different, family lives and all the things and different priorities, I mean, a lot of parents don't think that, well, that I mean, if it's excused for school, it should be excused for UIO. It's like they don't understand that this is a team, this is a a a team activity. It's not just affecting your student. and so yeah, that I mean, we've all we're all gonna deal with that at some point, And or you have the kid and these are legitimate things, wake up and they're they're just they've got the flu or they're feeling horrible, and how you deal with that, and some things you can't do anything about, there's just nothing you can you can do about it. It's just the way life is. But but just kind of dealing with those things is something, yeah, you have to You have to experience to be able to handle the right way. I don't think if we if if colleges, if if they taught you about those things, that you would really have an appreciation for that until it actually happens, and understand it. Yeah. Marco, how about you? Anything funny? Marco Rodriguez: Funny? Yes. So my first ever concert, it was a Halloween concert. we we d we do a Halloween costume contest and we got a little judges panel on the and we just decide who's the best who has got the best Halloween costume of, you know, each each brass or wooden winner percussion. And Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Marco Rodriguez: you know, naturally as the junior high band director, you gotta show out too. So I I showed up with an inflatable Squidward costume and it was about tina: Yes. Marco Rodriguez: it was about maybe eight feet tall Chris McLellan: Ha ha. Tyler Lewis: Yeah. Marco Rodriguez: and it had a little air compressor was about like maybe like this big and tina: Ha ha ha Marco Rodriguez: something some eight feet tall and it just wasn't enough. So Hunter Steele: Ha ha Marco Rodriguez: so as I'm conducting a piece I think it's the first one my my head, my Squidward costume head is flopping over like this and I'm just trying to conduct I'm conducting, tina: That's great. Marco Rodriguez: pushing the head up as I as I'm conducting. And Chris McLellan: Ha ha. Marco Rodriguez: and originally the goal was just to wear the costume for the whole concert. And so and so I, you know, had a I had to adjust. I ended up s and still in front of the kids. This isn't this is a gym. I'm not like off stage or anything. I have to s in front of the parents too. I have to like strip down my my Squidward costume, just go just take it off and be like, All right, next piece. Chris McLellan: Yep. tina: That's it. That's all. That's great. No. Chris McLellan: Lesson learned. No inflatable costumes. Marco Rodriguez: Go on for screens, yeah don't the thing yeah. tina: I love that. The kids are never gonna forget that. Probably the parents too. They're not. That's good. That is good. Chris McLellan: That's that's hilarious. No. No, that's that's Marco Rodriguez: huh. Yeah. Chris McLellan: a defining moment for sure. Hunter, what about you? Hunter Steele: Well, we in my first year we went from the old middle school building, which is probably two centuries old, and they built a new elementary school right in the middle of the school year. And that was really cool because then we had to move classes in the middle of it and everything, and everyone was really excited for this new new building. The new building had a stage in it. It was the it's like the first actual stage in the school. And we were so close to the elementary school that we got to be the first group to perform on it. And this is first year teaching Hunter Steele, who's kinda like Tyler said, is still transitioning out of college mode mindset. And so the kids are all set up on the stage. Everyone's Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Hunter Steele: really excited to be in the new the new area and everything. And I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna start the concert by dimming the lights and then walk on stage and go. And I if I feel like you probably imagine where that's going. Do you dim the lights? The parents did not stop talking. And I was like, Chris McLellan: Yeah. Hunter Steele: I'm gonna go anyway. And that was a mistake. So we played our first piece, which I don't even remember what it was at this point. I think Summit Fanfare by Willie Owens. And I was like, that's tina: Mm. Good piece. Hmm. Hunter Steele: gonna be great. Even if they're not paying attention, they'll be paying attention real soon. And the entire piece, they did not stop talking. So we they missed like the whole, yeah. Chris McLellan: my gosh. Hunter Steele: And I was like, I will never do that. ever again. And then it gets and we d we didn't ever really talk about concert etiquette. very unique situation, but in the past they're so used to being in like gym bleachers. they were never in a for Chris McLellan: Yeah. Hunter Steele: like a more formal setting. so in this case it's a really small town. No one has ever even considered talking to them about concert etiquette. And Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Hunter Steele: so in the back of this cafeteria with the stage in it, there's kids literally playing football through the rest of the concert. And it was just hap it was just happening. You're just letting it go on and you know, we we did our concert and afterwards the the band kids came up to me and they're like, What do you think of the flag football game that was happening in the back of the stage? And I was like, I d I don't know. I I think it wasn't cool. But you know, it's it's just it's weird things that you just can't account for, being the first time. Chris McLellan: Well, you don't anticip yeah, you don't anticipate that coming out of college, and depending on your high school experiences and things like that. But especially in small towns where you don't have a performing center, performing arts center, or s even a a cafeteria with a real stage and you're performing on a gym floor, that environment is a lot different, for the parents. They they just think they're going to a basketball game. They don't they don't really You know, and it's our job as directors to educate our audiences on proper etiquette, and especially in the rural areas where they don't have the opportunities to go to a symphony concert and things like that. And they're not, in a metropolitan area where there's more formal events that are going on. And their their community events. for the most part are outdoor football games, baseball games, or a basketball game, volleyball games, tina: Yep. Chris McLellan: and we have to kind of teach what that is, And there's a if you have a, like a Christmas concert, there's a poem out that's out there and it's the night before Christmas, but it's set to concert etiquette. and we would always have a student, tina: It's a good one. Chris McLellan: yeah, and we would always have a student come up and read that, from the band read that to the parents, And it was a a good way to kind of educate them, on things. Cause we we had a big problem in in our community with, guys coming in and sitting down and wearing these big old cowboy hats and not taking them off. it's like people behind them can't see, but they don't realize that. And I, I think it was my my second concert in this community. And I and I had to make an announcement. It's like we we need you to please remove your hats, And and from then on, we started putting all that in the program, just listing it and then making a little comment about it at the beginning, just so that they understood, because if they haven't experienced it, they're not thinking about it. So yeah, that's that's something I think we we deal with. And we shouldn't have to educate the parents, but tina: But you do, yeah. Yeah. And it educate Chris McLellan: Sometimes we do. You do. You You do. tina: the kiddos that week, the week of the concert. This is what to expect, this is what yeah. You know, Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. tina: all of that. Just part of it. But that's a good point. Chris McLellan: Yeah, and if you if you kind of talk to your kiddos about it ahead of time, they may even go home and say, Dad, you can't wear your cowboy hat to concert, and things like that. tina: Right. Chris McLellan: All right. tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: Well, we're gonna skip a little bit because we are way into this, a little further along tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: time wise than I wanted to be. so we're gonna skip down and we're gonna do just a couple of closing things. the first one is if I could go back. Okay, tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: so. And let's just finish this sentence. If I could go back to my senior year of college, I would tell myself blank. Okay. I would tell myself blank. Brooke, what are you what would you tell yourself? Brooke Lane: I think I would tell myself that whenever you go to apply for a job, about eighty percent of them are gonna be looking for a Woodwind player or a professionist. So focus a lot of Woodwin fingers and to be ready for that. tina: Okay. Yep. Chris McLellan: Awesome. Good advice. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: Tyler? Tyler Lewis: I would tell myself to focus more on secondary instruments for sure, just getting time on different instruments. Chris McLellan: Yep. Yep. And that's something I think we all worry about. I know I did coming out as a percussionist. It's like you go through a semester of brass methods and a semester of woodwind methods and a semester of string methods. And what did I learn from that? Not much. You know? And so yeah, just kind of having for me it was all right, I just need to focus on a woodwind instrument and a brass instrument right now that I can learn and stay ahead of the kids on. because with brass, of course, that is much more applicable to all the other brass instruments than maybe a woodwind instrument might be. But, I chose to focus on saxophone because it was the easiest for me at that point. And, a lot of the fingering is applied to flute and things different things like that, And so I was able to kind of learn that way. But yeah, that's a that's a big one. And I have student teachers ask me all the time, you know, should I know be able to like be proficient on all these instruments. So well that'd be great, but you're not gonna be. None of us are, So that's a good, that's a good advice. How about you, Marco? tina: was very Chris McLellan: go ahead, Tina. tina: it's okay. I was very fortunate because when we're when I was in college at Lamar University, we had to play a class three solo on almost every instrument. and you know it it it was great. And we just did it for the class. It wasn't anything, you know, like real judgy or whatever, but we had to be able to play, that and also just having friends like like let you use their instruments and help you and have fun with all of that. But really asking your friends, to help you with that while you're in college and have fun with that. also some schools will allow you to play a different, totally different instrument in like their fourth band or they have bands like that Chris McLellan: Yeah, yeah. tina: that meet be involved in that. Do that. If you're a woodwind person, play a brass instrument, vice versa. And You know, learn all that. Go to the percussionist. We we had to learn how to, like take apart a snare drum and put it back together and the timpani stuff and all of that. It's like get with them before you graduate to have your friends teach you things you can benefit from. Chris McLellan: Yeah, and I think that the the playing in another ensemble on a secondary instrument, that wasn't tina: Yes. Huge. Chris McLellan: something that was really pushed to me when I was in college as a percussionist. I I I did know of some wind players that did that. but you know, if you're a a college music major right now looking to become a band director and you've got that opportunity to go play, something different than your primary instrument and in the other family. That would be awesome. tina: Mm. Chris McLellan: you're gonna learn a lot from doing that. Okay. Marco. Marco Rodriguez: I would tell myself, go find a director that you trust, you respect, and ask them to set a six weeks goal with you, first six weeks goal, first three week goal, first week goal, and and ask how do I get there from day one? Because if you don't if you don't start day one, it's gonna be difficult from from then on. So a short term goal is a lot more digestible, a lot more achievable than that. Chris McLellan: Yes. Marco Rodriguez: What am I supposed to do at the end of the year? By the end of the year. Chris McLellan: Yes. tina: No, you're right. Day by day. Yeah. Chris McLellan: Good job, Padawan. Proud of you. tina: Hunter. Chris McLellan: All right, Hunter, what about you? Hunter Steele: Mine is kinda Tina took the words out of my mouth after Tyler. I th I would have probably have gone and found another student and been like, Teach me how to make the first sound on this instrument, teach me how to cross the break on the clarinet, like teach me all this stuff because right now it's you know, first time first time even thinking about crossing the break on the clarinet was like two days before I had to teach it to the clarinets. So it's it would have been so much better to sit down with a peer and be like, Hey, I don't know what I'm doing. let's let's figure Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Hunter Steele: it out and just don't be don't be ashamed to ask or spend time on that. It's okay to put aside the private lesson stuff for a minute and just grab that second instrument. Chris McLellan: Well, yeah, and and if you have the opportunity, I mean, I did this in college where I took a a minor, like a music minors lesson on a secondary instrument. And for me tina: Yeah, yeah. Chris McLellan: it was piano because I felt like as a percussionist, I needed to be able to do some piano stuff. And I I also needed a lot of help passing that piano proficiency, you know. So I took tina: Me too. Chris McLellan: a weekly piano lesson with one of our piano professors, and It was just a thirty minute lesson a week. It wasn't an hour, but that helped me a ton. And I wish I had done that, on a a different wind instrument as well. But if you've got that opportunity, that's also something that is is great. And, even when you get out, you know, your first year. And I think Brooke, didn't you take take take some lessons from somebody on some some things tina: Mm-hmm. Okay. Chris McLellan: over the summer or something? Brooke Lane: Yeah, I took some Woodwin lessons just to be ready for tina: Yes. Brooke Lane: being a Woodwins director. Chris McLellan: Yeah. Yeah. And when I tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: when I went to Springtown and I was just kind of by default the Woodwin person at the high school because we had a brass tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: guy. I was a percussion guy, but I also had another percussion, specialist on on staff. And so I just kind of become became default the woodwind person. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: and then later in my career I became the default double reads beginner teacher, and so I went to a vocal majority, camp for directors. Yeah. tina: have a great one. Yeah. Chris McLellan: I went to that one summer for directors and and learned as much as I could about Ovo and Bassoon before I had to start teaching that. So you're never too old to start doing those things. You know, you can do tina: Mm, no. And Chris McLellan: those things now. tina: and if you find out, you know, you have a new job and you find out, I'm gonna be teaching, like you're saying, like double read or whatever, reach out to people. Find out where you can get help, you know, like you did, Brooke, with that. You know, get get some lessons, go to other schools, whatever you have to do before school starts to get some help and then keep them as your mentor. That you can just call anytime with all that. Yeah, Tyler. Tyler Lewis: so not about secondary instruments, but about like your primary instrument as well. tina: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Tyler Lewis: I would fully recommend to any college student looking to get into music education, think about how you want to explain things on your own instrument to Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Tyler Lewis: you are teaching. tina: yes. Tyler Lewis: 'Cause for me I know that like there were certain things I was proficient at, but I could not explain or articulate to students like how I was doing those things. Yeah. tina: Seen that a lot. Yes. I've seen that a lot where it is your primary instrument and you're very, very talented, but you don't know how to fix the problems, or you hear or whatever, you know, like teeth teeth aren't lined up, or yes, Chris McLellan: You're the you're the weakest. That's yeah. tina: because it comes naturally to you. And you know, I see that a lot with voicing too, you know, inside your mouth, voicing with different instruments, because Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: we as musicians do it naturally because we We've just been trained, and that's how you do that, to be on the correct pitch or tuning and all of that. And it's like, how do we you have to still teach that because and people will say, Well, I don't do that. Well, you know, could kind of take a step back. You do, everybody Chris McLellan: Yeah, you do. tina: does. Just take a step back and not think about what is so natural, like you're saying, Tyler, like on your primary or whatever. But that's a great point, Tyler. Really good point. Chris McLellan: Well, and there's a there's a discussion, that's gone around for years. And I've had this discussion many times with other band directors, and it's kind of a common thing where there's a lot of agreement that sometimes you're you're the weakest beginner teacher on your primary instrument because you do take so tina: Mm. Chris McLellan: many things for granted. But when you're teaching something that's not your primary instrument, you're having to to explain it to yourself, figure it out for yourself, and then you have that. that experience to explain it to the beginner, and tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: I think that's what made me pretty successful at teaching double reads is because I had to really work it hard at it and figure it out. and we had two different all-state bassoonists and three different all-state oboists in in my high school band that none of them took private lessons ever, and one of them is now A professor of oboe at Troy University, and she's in the Panama City Symphony in Florida. And just a kid from Springtown, Texas, never took oboe lessons until she got to college, went to University of Houston for her undergrad, But she was a fantastic, player. I, you know, and of course, a lot of that is getting the right kids on those instruments. I'm not tooting my horn on that for sure, but but it's it's tina: But it's no it's the details. It's the details that you're thinking of Chris McLellan: It's the details. It's the details. tina: for an instrument that you're not familiar with to do those exact Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: details with what the ones you are familiar with. Just every single detail. Chris McLellan: Because I would have to, we would have to talk about voicings a lot and how we might, tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: shape our mouth to to play that in tune in different things. Whereas, tina: right. Chris McLellan: maybe if I'm a bassoonist, I'm not thinking about that so much. I don't know. But I do know tina: No, it's true. Chris McLellan: that that's a common conversation that's that's out there. So that's excellent advice, Tyler. Very good. tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: All right. Final thing, lightning round. Nobody prepared me for, okay. So I'm just gonna throw this question out there. And the first thing that comes to your mind is your answer. Okay. And the question is basically finish this statement. Nobody prepared me for blank Brook. Brooke Lane: Nobody prepared me for how many hours he put in for marching bands. tina: yeah. Chris McLellan: Okay, good, good, good, good. Tyler. Tyler Lewis: Nobody prepared me for the amount of multitasking. tina: Hmm. Yep. Chris McLellan: Yep. Awesome. Marco? Marco Rodriguez: Hm yeah, come back to me 'cause there's too many things, honestly. Chris McLellan: Okay, we'll come back to you. You got thirty seconds, Hunter. Marco Rodriguez: Okay. Hunter Steele: no one prepared me for how tired I would feel coming home every day and then going to bed at like eight PM. It's past my bedtime right now, so tina: no, yeah, that's Chris McLellan: Yeah, yeah. Tyler Lewis: Ha ha tina: true. Cause you're constantly it's just constant never stops, yeah. Makes you tired. Makes you tired, you know. Chris McLellan: It's com yeah, it is. And and y and I'll have a follow up question in just a second. Marco, you you're you're up now. Marco Rodriguez: Yeah. no one prepared me for how important your lifestyle at home impacts your everyday life, especially at work too. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so that whole it it tina: Okay, yeah. That balan balancing, yeah. Chris McLellan: that that balance, you know, and figuring out, all of that. And Hunter, you're talking about being tired and and all those types of things. And I mean it it's it's exhausting. it's can be emotionally draining, physically draining, all of those types of things, you know, and it's one of the things that I and I don't know. When I started doing this, if I did this with any of you guys as student teachers, but it's something that I talk about with student teachers now is, make sure you get enough water during the day. You hydrate tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: that you're eating properly, that you go to bed, you know, at a decent hour and you try to keep that consistent because tina: Mm. Chris McLellan: that's something that I never learned to do very well. And it really cost me later in my career. And it it is, it's just being deliberate and consistent with those habits. because it can really wear you out. and if it wears you down tina: Yep. Very important. Chris McLellan: too much and you get sick, then you're not there to help your students, you know, and and so somebody at some point said this to me and it really hit home. And it Marco Rodriguez: Yeah. Chris McLellan: was you can't take care of your students until if you can't take care of yourself. You're not going to be there for your students if you're, you know, not taking care of yourself. And that that really That really hit home because that was something that I I always put everything else first before myself. And if there's anything that I want people to know these days is don't do that. That is not a recipe for success in the long run, you know. And I would, I'd get sick every Christmas break. I would be running on adrenaline until Christmas break and then I would get something tina: Mm. Chris McLellan: bad, like pneumonia or something and end up in the hospital a few times, because I tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: just ran my battery down to nothing. So yeah. I'm I'm glad you're recognizing those things at this point. And the key is to listen to yourself and do stuff about it. So very good. tina: And it's okay if it's okay if you take a day. If your whole team knows Chris McLellan: It is. tina: when that day's gonna be, plan that day that you need to to catch up on things or just, just your health, Chris McLellan: To recharge, yeah. tina: yep, your health is is so important. Chris McLellan: Okay, and then let's just finish this off on a good note here. So we didn we asked nobody prepared me for this. Then the other side of that is, but nobody prepared me for her how rewarding this is. Okay, so Brooke, what did what have you found rewarding that you didn't think about before? Brooke Lane: No no one prepared me for how rewarding it just it is to see the accumulation of just all the progress and all the hard work the students put in and just seeing like the show come together for we just had our first performance yesterday and just on the sideline Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Brooke Lane: I felt like emotional watching them just doing all the things we had worked so hard on. So it's been really rewarding. Chris McLellan: I wish I could have been there yesterday. I was I was Brooke Lane: Yeah. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: in Waco visiting our son, but but I'll be out there Tuesday. So we'll we'll get to do a nice clinic with that. That'll be great. Okay, cool. How about Tyler? Tyler Lewis: when you see your students succeed, not just in in band but in other areas of their lives, it is so, so rewarding. For example, one of the kids that I taught at Dawson is now a a national FFA finalist. He's in like the top three in the nation in one of the ag proficiencies. And that's Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Tyler Lewis: something that's completely unrelated to band, but it just shows you that that students can accomplish so much and That was not necessarily one of the things that I thought about like going into this job, but just seeing students move on from high school and still continue to succeed is extremely rewarding. Chris McLellan: Yeah. And did you know? I didn't know this until I had a student do this, but I had an AG student in my band and she was a very good clarinet player. But FFA, the national level has a I guess it's a national band, the honor band for FFA. And you can audition for it as a as a student, and she made it. So I mean that was really cool. I I didn't even know it until she came up and said, Hey, I'm auditioning for the FFA national band. I was like, What? What is that? You know? So Yeah, it's awesome to see kids do those things. And not just not just in band. And that's that's but that's the characteristic too of a really great teacher is you gotta be invested in there for everything that they do, not just for band, And that's that's something that everybody needs to understand. All right, Marco. Marco Rodriguez: Yeah, I mean su just the students, not students, their growth, their success, their especially when you've seen them not successful, it's just it's Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Marco Rodriguez: it's just really, really, really rewarding to see. I mean, yeah, I'm I'm with the high school marching band, not as much with my junior high band, but we walked onto the field first year for our our region performance and we were just walking on and I was already tearing up. I'm like and It it's just a it's just a great feeling just to be able to see that all that success. Chris McLellan: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. All right, Hunter, finish us off. Hunter Steele: I think it's it's been the most rewarding to see the kids start to identify things themselves. Like at the beginning of the year they don't know what's going on. They don't even know that there's like a minor second happening right in their ear. they don't know anything about anything. By the end of the year, it's just so, so refreshing and rewarding just be like, Mr. Steele, wasn't there someone like playing a wrong note and measure something on beat whatever? And it's like, Yes. Yes there was. And it's just so nice to almost have the classroom run itself and rehearsal take care of itself and look and see, you know, I'm about to address something in the saxophones. And then I see the like saction f saxophone section leader already talking to the someone else and they're like, this is the fingering for that or the rhythm goes like this. And it's like, okay, you guys got that? All right, let's just do it again. And like that is it's so nice that the kids reach like Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Hunter Steele: a autum automaticity or autonomy. Sorry, autonomy is like that's that's like the greatest thing to see in your program. Chris McLellan: Awesome. All right, guys. tina: Yeah, yeah. Chris McLellan: Okay, so we have just a short closing here. and this is just a real quick, we're not going to discuss, but if music education programs could add just one thing to better prepare future band directors, what should it be? Brooke. Brooke Lane: This would take a huge shift in curriculum, but I think if there's any way they could switch student teaching to happen in the fall, just to to be able to see beginning band and see marching band, I think that would be extremely like helpful to them as a teacher. Chris McLellan: Okay. All right. Tyler? Tyler Lewis: If it could be a universal thing that instrument repair was taught across the board tina: Yeah. Tyler Lewis: in in every instrument family, that would I don't even know how many hours of research that would save everybody. It would be so valuable. Chris McLellan: Yeah, absolutely. Marco. Marco Rodriguez: I think it'd be really cool. I don't know how it'd work, but it'd be cool if a class for a semester was pretty much formatted as a first first semester for sixth grade ban and kind of just going through that process Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Marco Rodriguez: just being able to experience how to start a program, how to start a clock you know, from from the s from the start. Chris McLellan: Yeah, really good. Hunter? Hunter Steele: think this would be really, really cool if like almost like a senior capstone or something when you're getting done with your student teaching or somewhere in the in there, you had a project where it's like, All right, it's your job to organize a trip all the way from paying for the food to getting the kids there to figuring out transportation tina: Mm-hmm. Hunter Steele: and picking your music and just really seeing and then the teacher could be like, I'm gonna be your finance department and give I'll give you your check in two weeks and see how how it goes. Just give the opportunity to actually plan something out at that scale so they they understand the scope and the the sequence of everything. Chris McLellan: Yeah. Well, and I'm gonna do kind of a a shameless plug here. my wife just finished my wife just finished this this learning session on online LMS basically for my book, which basically is intended to be done at the same time as your student teaching semester. And it's real easy to do because you can just do like five minutes a day and in it's a module and you go through it. But it does have projects in it like that where you can go through and you can design a band trip and you can plan it. And all yeah. He's got the book in front of him. But but you can you tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: can come you can You can do all those types of things. And I can't remember the three different there's like three different projects throughout the course, but you get to choose on each one of those three different projects that you can do. and so we're kind of trying to get this into the colleges as well. and I've already got one college that's that's very interested in it and is already using the workbook and the book, but is now wanting to get into the LMS and and stuff like that. And so that's something that we're also trying to do is is provide a resource where colleges can have this type of thing. Or if you're a beginning director, because we're also going to present it to TEA and try to get it to where you can get in service credit for doing this course. And it'd be like a six hour course, you know, and it's super applicable to what you're doing instead of going through something about analyzing star test scores, which you don't have any need to to do, and so that's just a shameless plug, but that's something that we're working on. because my goal is to try to get you guys as prepared for that first day, that first week, that first year as much as possible. and providing resources, to everybody out there to be able to do that. So that's that's interesting that you bring that up because that's something that that we've got in the in the works already. in a real close to being able to publish at this point. So awesome. No, you weren't. You weren't. Hunter Steele: I was not prompted to say that. Marco Rodriguez: Right. Chris McLellan: And I I I I wasn't even gonna bring that up at all until you said what you said. It's like so so we do have something kind of going on like that. and and it's something that that I think is is because music new music education programs, I mean the curriculum is designed to teach you how to teach bands. But there's so much other stuff to being a band director than just what you do standing on the podium. And those are the things that we're trying to address through not only this podcast and the book and all that stuff, but just getting that information out there so that there's a resource. so you don't feel like you have to go into things totally blind. So very cool. All right. Well, Tina, do you have any closing thoughts? tina: No, I just really want to thank all of you for taking time out of your day and doing this because I think it's very beneficial for new teachers and teachers even been teaching a few years to hear from y'all and what you've experienced. Chris McLellan: Right. Absolutely. Really want to thank you guys so much for for coming on tonight. I know it took a little longer than we normally tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: go on a podcast, but lots of good information. And tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: I think it's gonna be very beneficial to anyone who can listen to it.