Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep.370 - That's A Problem...

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep.370 - That's A Problem... · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, May I have your attention please? The
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: show starts in ten nine eight, seven, six, five, four
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: three two.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: One is that.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Jolly Job made movies Job Rop cond Job Brady and
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: Job Joby and Job rap Tjob Fay Sellom, Joe Hell.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: And Happy Lancer weekend And here we go.
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: That's right, Joe, what's up? Everybody? Welcome in, folks. This
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: is the Lungoma Podcast, episode NB. Three and seventy. In
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: case you can't tell Joe is not in Dallas, Yes,
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: tell everybody what the hell happened?
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm going to bed last night at around
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: eleven forty exactly right, starting a doze off, I start
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: getting a bunch of you know, vibrates from my phone
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, what is my friend sending me like
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: a million reels, which she always does in a row.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: But I look at it and it's my American Airlines
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: app saying your flight has been canceled. So I was like, okay,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I guess I'll unset my alarm for five am this morning.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Now I wake up, your flight has been rebooked. What
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: they failed to tell me, or they might have in
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: the super small print, was that it.
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: Was didn't read mistruction.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Was from LaGuardia too, ironically John F. Kennedy Airport, both
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: in Queen's So your boy showed up at the wrong
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: airport and and it has been a hell of a
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: day man at the airport one hundred plus dollars uber
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: back to Connecticut because my girlfriend who drove me at
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: a call. Then I thought my PowerPoint that I worked
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: on for two days disappeared. I was finally able to
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: recover it, so I was able to take a little
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: nap and I will be on a six am flight
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: to Dallas in the morning for my thirty hours total.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: And the big d.
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: Well Joe might not be in Dallas, folks, but we
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: do have somebody that is and you might know her.
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: So without further ado, Joe, let's bring on miss Paula
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: Jane to the show.
• 3:39
  Speaker 5: Hello, gentlemen, that Paula. How are you, dandy?
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: How are you doing fantastic? Better than Joe?
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: I think we all are.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, I wish I was sitting there next to you,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: so do I. But I will see I will see
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: you tomorrow early. And we had our chicken lunch plan
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: and we had it all.
• 4:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we had it we had it down to a
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: science airport chicken conference. We had it all work.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah's it's a good lineup. Life gets on the way.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: But you know so tell us, Uh, you've been taking
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: copious notes all day. I have. How has the first
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: day of Lancer console far?
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: It's kind of a train wreck, Joe? They had well,
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: first of all the sites that I've been on and
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: many of us have been on, said that the conference
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: started at two o'clock. When we got here, many of
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: us found that the conference for them was supposed to
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: start at ten o'clock, but so already And I'm not
• 5:01
  Speaker 5: the only one. I'm at a whole table full of
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: people who are kind of ticked off at this. And
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: then they had technical difficulties and didn't get started at
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: all until eleven, when Paul Abbot started, and he apparently
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: gave a really great presentation that I missed almost all
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: of I got there what I thought was early, but
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: in fact they had already started, and they had booked
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: my registration under my credit card name, not the name
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: I go by now, so they couldn't find it. Anyway.
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: When I found out Paul Abbott was still going on,
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: I literally threw her my credit card and went in
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: to listen to the rest of Paul Abbot because I'm
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: here as a reporter for the Lone Gunman and I
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: didn't want to miss anymore. They would all woke out
• 5:59
  Speaker 5: now if it all worked out now, And I just
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: fixed my name tag so that it matches me. But
• 6:07
  Speaker 5: Abbott did get was giving a very good presentation on
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: the basement at the Dallas p D. What he thinks
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: happened h with the Ruby, with the Ruby shooting Oswald,
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: and uh he had He follows some of the things
• 6:35
  Speaker 5: that Armstrong does about how he thinks that uh, the
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: shooter Ruby could have gotten in and it makes a
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: lot of sense the uh dp D. But that used
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: to be the d p D headquarters is now taken
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: over by the North Texas School of Law. But when
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: it was DPD, I've was there, and it is first
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: of all, very easy to get in there. Even thirty
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: years later into the two thousands, which I guess would
• 7:12
  Speaker 5: be almost forty years later, you could walk into areas
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: behind the security so called security perimeter, extremely easy. I've
• 7:23
  Speaker 5: done it myself.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: But the.
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: Essential part of understanding how Ruby could have gotten in
• 7:34
  Speaker 5: undetected is that the so called annex of DPD was
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: built so that the floors didn't line up exactly like
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: it's one building connected to another building connected to another building.
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: And you could get into DPD by going through by
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: going through the annex on the other side where you
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: weren't really in, you know, the police department per se,
• 8:09
  Speaker 5: but you could still connect through there. And both he
• 8:12
  Speaker 5: and Armstrong believe that it wasn't so much at Ruby
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: knowing when Oswald was coming down, as they were sending
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: him down whenever Ruby appears that you know, Ruby is
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: the trigger going in no pun intended, rather than Oswald.
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: Here comes Oswald, so now you can go Ruby. So anyway,
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: and he, of course everybody seems like, is pushing a book,
• 8:46
  Speaker 5: and he has his own channel now or death Death
• 8:53
  Speaker 5: to Justice dot com and also the channel he was
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: called City Hall Basement, so it's you know, his fuller
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: explanation is in his book and his channel.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, and uh all right, so we started off with
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Paul Abbott, who was who was after that?
• 9:20
  Speaker 5: Well, then because they had started late, they decided to
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: take a hour and a half maybe longer lunch break.
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: I don't know why that is, but everybody is now
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: getting their time shortened because people are tired. But they
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: did take that lunch break. And then we had Bob
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: Reynolds Nelson. And the connection there is the middle name Reynolds,
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: because he is the nephew of Philip Nelson. And this
• 9:59
  Speaker 5: he this gives his family story.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: You know, he.
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: Frames it all as a family story because it's his uncle,
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: who he says was running with Bobby Baker and all
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: of that ilk in Washington, d c. And that on
• 10:21
  Speaker 5: the very day of the assassination, his uncle was being
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: a whistleblower to honest John Williams, a senator from Delaware.
• 10:35
  Speaker 5: But when and that is when, of course, everything melts
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: down on eleven, twenty two sixty three, and he's not
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: only now much like the Life magazine story, he's not
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: only now blowing the whistle on the vice president, but
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: it is now the president. And the family story is that.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: You then have.
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: Him his uncle's life being threatened, and his uncle eventually
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: goes off to the Bahamas. This is one of those stories.
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: I don't know how much is family lore and how
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: much of it is actual effect. I mean, it's there's
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: nothing in it that's implausible, and I may be my skepticism,
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: maybe being triggered by this gentleman's presentation, because literally things
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: were falling off the podium while he was talking.
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: I mean it was just.
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: Books and whatever falling off off the podium. So that
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: didn't instill a lot of confidence. He kept walking away
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: from the microphone.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: And Rob was one of Was this one of the
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: guys that was on that five panel twenty five dollars
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: zoom call with Morley the other day? Was this his
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: name Bob Nelson? Yes?
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: His his name is? His name is Bob Nelson, Yes, And.
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: So I didn't hear was Phil Nelson?
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: His his uncle was Don Buck Reynolds. Okay, I'm sorry,
• 12:24
  Speaker 5: Don Buck. Yeah, Don Buck Reynolds. And this.
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: This gentleman, you may call that guy.
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: Bob Reynolds Nelson.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: Uh, he's the nephew of Uncle Buck, as it were.
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: And so anyway, he he was he felt threatened and
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: silenced and went off to the Bahamas. And then his uh,
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: his reported that she felt like her phone had been
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: tapped and she was being surveilled. And again it's one
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: of those things that's plausible, but it also sounds like
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: something maybe old Uncle Buck was you know, telling one.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Night, embellishing a little bit. Yeah, it's so, And it's
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: great that you're skeptical because I've been so much more
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: skeptical since when I started this podcast. I think Rob
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: two years tomorrow will be our anniversary of our first show.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: I think it's close enough to call it two years.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, two years anniversary. I've become very skeptical of almost
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: everything of the this was taken, this was stolen, et cetera,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: et cetera. I felt like I was being followed or tapped.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: You know, it's always like plausible, not provable, So what
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: can you really do with it?
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: You know, it's definitely the LBJs did at school, and
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: also if you pursue it, it's nothing that really gets
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: you closer to solving it. You know, you can prove that.
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: I mean if you the chances of proving this or
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: disproving it are pretty small. And even if you did
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: prove it, it's not it's not as anything. It's nothing
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: you could take to court. You know, it's not a
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: smoking word by any means. It's just whoa, that's that's
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: pretty bad.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: For old uncle buck God. So he gave the same
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: presentation two years ago.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: There Okay, So after that.
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: It's kind of like Judy, you know, you're a one
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: trick pony, You're a one trick pony.
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: I mean it's yeah, I mean it's his uncle, and yeah,
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: we're not so. And then we had Scott Reid give
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: up presentation on the shooting of General Walker, and it's
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: was somewhat. It was, you know, detailed. It was nothing
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: that we haven't that you all haven't covered on the
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: podcast already.
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: Well, let me tell you something, Paula. Listen to the
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: rest of the show tonight and you let us know
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: if our presentation is better than Scott reads and if
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: we have any new information, yeah.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Look forward to it. Yeah, what was this conclusion if
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: you don't mind me asking in regards to the shooting.
• 15:38
  Speaker 5: Well, he he was going through the evidence that it
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: was not that wasn't Lee Harvey Oswald. He pointed out that, well,
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: first let me say that he not his name is
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: not only Scott Reid, but he is a Scott and
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: I could barely understand the man. It was such a
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: thick accident. And then there were some people over to
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: the side that were at the book sales, which they
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: have in the same Yeah, and so he was very
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: difficult to understand. But he went through, you know, the
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: license plate being punched out, and that the two witnesses
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: that saw two men. Both of those witnesses said that
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: neither of the two men looked like Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: One of course, was the fourteen year old Coleman, Yes, yes, Coleman,
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: and the other was someone who saw them reconnoitering, you know,
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: kind of casing to join a couple of days early.
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: Neither one of those witnesses said that it looked like
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: Lee Harvey Oswald. He also went down a road about
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: Michael Payne, saying that they were all having dinner on
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: that night on the tenth, April tenth, And of course,
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: if that was the case, Flee Harvey was having dinner
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: on Neeley Street with the Paines, he couldn't be at
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: the Walkers. And the contradiction was that it was no
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: Payne had this dates wrong. It was really April second,
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: but that was election day and they would have talked
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: about the mayoral race because they were so interested in politics.
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: I think that's kind of a dubious leap there. To
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: be interested in geo politics is way different than than
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: who the mayor is I promise you, I do not
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: know the mayor of the town I live in right now.
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: They don't do shit for me.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: So yeah, and Oswalt was I don't see Oswalt being
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: concerned with local politics or else there would be sort
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: evidence of him trying to get in local politics exactly exactly.
• 18:04
  Speaker 5: I mean, I'm skeptical. I don't believe it was Oswald either,
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: but I don't think that's just positive of it. Let's see,
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: the bullet that was used and the Walker shooting was
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: still jacketed as opposed to copper jacketed, which was of course,
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: you know, the bullets and the assassination, and Walker said
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: that it was that the bullet that was being analyzed
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: was not the bullet that he saw. And then they
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: questioned the chain of custody because there are two different
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: DPD officers that claimed that they found the bullet and
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: then gave it to the other one, and so that
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: really messes up the chain of custody. And it does
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: now in my own experience with DPD that happens all
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: the time, where no one can't remember exactly, you know,
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: there's a bunch of them at the scene, and when
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: they start to get together about who did what. They
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: either can't remember or they have a reason to put
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: it on the other one. I know, when I was
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: arranging for officers to come and testify, there would be
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: like twenty that are on the report as there at
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: the scene. But when it came to who could was
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: going to come testify at my trial, well, especially if
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: it was deer season, it was really you know Schmoe
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: over there that was really did everything. You don't need
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: me to testify, Paula. You need that guy behind the
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: tree to testify. So yeah, but this guy has contact
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: information at Scott Reid that's s c O T t
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: R E I D at hotmail dot co CEO dot uk.
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: And if you wanted to ask him what he was
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: talking about while the people were selling books.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well well yeah, there's all these tables set
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: up outside the ballroom, at least in the past two
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: years with you know, people like Jeffrey Meek and you
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: know O'Kelly and everyone has their own little stands, and you.
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: Know, this one is actually set up in the ballroom.
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: In the ballroom where they're speaking, they're all up against
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: one wall and uh chatting over there and being the
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: shy flower I am. I went over and told them
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: to play shut up.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Seems to be a theme sometimes. That's how How is
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: the ballroom is? Uh? I mean, I know there were
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: some technical difficulties. How was How was the ballroom? And
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: how is the attendance?
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: The attendance is much better than it was last year.
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: It's I would say they're around two hundred. There were
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: around two hundred people in the ballroom. That would be
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: my estimate, you know, somewhere between one fifty and two hundred.
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: I would say two hundred, and about twenty percent of
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: us this time are female, which is so nice. There
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: were times last year when I was the only female
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: in the room, and when I wasn't the only female
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: in the room, the others looked pretty crazy.
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: So AUS does have its benefits.
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: But I haven't seen either one of the AUS guys.
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: But I have heard some talk among on the tables
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: about you know, there are clearly no grow bet and so.
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: Forth, so a lot of people there because they're there.
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, probably yeah, probably so, probably so. And I have
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: to say Hundley isn't nearly as bad when he's not
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: around Robert. I have listened to some of his podcasts
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: on the Oklahoma City bombing that were really very good.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he Yeah, he's not a horrible guy.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: I told the story of two years ago where when
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: I actually bought him a beer and had a chat
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: with him, and I said, hey, we're at the bar,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: and say, hey, you want me to get you a beer?
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: And he goes, yeah, I'll take two bub lights or whatever,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: and he took one down to his room.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, so yeah, who was uh see
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: anyone else? Of note?
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: I saw Matt Crumpton was sitting in the very back
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: and I'm not sure when he slipped in. I didn't
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: see him, just until I was leaving to come upstairs
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: to with Trey Hammit's laptop I'm using here, and when
• 23:21
  Speaker 5: I was sneaking out of the of the room, I
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: happened to see him sitting at one of the back tables. Okay,
• 23:29
  Speaker 5: and that's all the only only person I've recognized so
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: far except oh, the the young man that does the
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: camera work.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: That Alex Alex Harris.
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: Alex Harris. I saw Alex Harris play plunking around on
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: the grand piano outside the room, outside the big conference room,
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: just kind of Yeah, yeah, not even that advanced rob
• 24:03
  Speaker 5: not even advance.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: So that's funny. That is a that's probably a very
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Alex Harris.
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: He'll if he works on it. Yeah, he can do that.
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: As well as he could probably sing.
• 24:27
  Speaker 5: About as well as I can sing for sure. And
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: then Gary Fannon came on and Gary Fannon was supposed
• 24:38
  Speaker 5: to be talking about Oh I metster anyway. Gary Fanning
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: came on and supposedly was going to give a presentation
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: on mocking Bird, but it was really more like a
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: tour of conspiracy theories, some of which I subscribe to.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: But it was more like a.
• 25:03
  Speaker 5: Catalog of conspiracy theories since nineteen sixty three.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Did he go over JFK Jr.
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: He did not get to JFK Junior.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: He has written a book on it though, Yeah, he
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: did it last year. I think Scott can correctly wrong.
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: Well, you know, they were having to shrink the having
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: to shrink the presentation, so we had taking lunch at
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: three pm. But he did mention, let's see again, it
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: really wasn't so much Mockingbird at all. He did mention
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: a group called the Bethesda Seven, which I hadn't heard about.
• 25:50
  Speaker 5: Apparently he assembled a bunch of people who had been
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: on the honor guard at in Washington, d C. On
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: November second, and presented them with some evidence, and they
• 26:08
  Speaker 5: compared amongst themselves where they had been and what they
• 26:12
  Speaker 5: had been doing at that time, and concluded that the
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: casket that they took into the autopsy room was empty.
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: He gave a well he clearly believes in the Murchison
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: party and talked about how there was a body double
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: for LBJ and fort Worth so that LBJ co had
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: actually could go himself to the Murchison party. And he
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: believes that it was at the Murchison party that the
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: secret service was Eater was read into the plot to
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: h to assassinate.
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: All right, well, uh.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, anything else of note before we let you go here,
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: And we do want to thank Trey for coming in
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: the clutch and bringing you this laptop since I was
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: not there to do so, and no, like like I
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: think I.
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: Told you before things started. They are looking right now
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: at a film about the medical evidence, and I hope
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: to get maybe a link to it because it does
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: that one does look like a very informative film. But
• 27:43
  Speaker 5: it's a film, so maybe it's available somewhere else without
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: having to come to Dallas.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Right well, paul thank you so much. I can't wait
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: to see you tomorrow. I hope we can do it.
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: I can't.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: I hope we can squeeze in our chicken lunch. And
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I will be there at about ten am. I'm already
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: checked in, okay, so I'm not charging another fee, and
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: uh I will. I will be there bright and early,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: and I look forward to seeing you.
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: And I thank you so much for joining us for
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: tonight's show.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, please see us soon, see it.
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: Thank you again, Jows, ladies and gentlemen, Thank you Paulo
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: for the update live from Lancer without Joe. She did
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: a fantastic job with that.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah she did.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, interesting interesting, all right, Joe? You ready to
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: do this?
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Yep?
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: Now, Folks, channel members, uh, if you, if you were
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: a channel member and you caught the show Wednesday night,
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: you knew what we were going to be talking about tonight,
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: and you got a little bit of an early legitimate
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: preview of everything we do here or everything leading up
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: to what we're going to be talking about tonight. I
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: should say the backstory, if you will, so, if you're
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: curious about that, I want to look at it and
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: become a channel member. We do good work over there.
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: Makes you check it out tonight, We've got a hell
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: of a show for you. And it does have to
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: do with the general Walker shooting. It does have to
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: do with that week in April, because you know, there's
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: been there's been a document out there for a very
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: long time, well at least since the HSCA, and it
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: contains some very curious information and we'll get to it
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: here in a second. And it kind of sparked me
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: and Joe's interest because I also ran into something else
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: that didn't make sense, and we'll get to that too.
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: And it always bothered me something about the August first
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: letter that he at Lee Harvey Oswald Lee Harvey Osweald
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: wrote to VT Lee of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: And we'll get there too, I promise. But in the
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: course of trying to run all this stuff down and
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: try to figure out exactly what happened, well, of course
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: we stumbled into a major rabbit hole, folks, without me,
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: and we're going to drag you, kicking and screaming down
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: the rabbit hole with us here tonight. So Joe, without
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: further Ado. Are you ready to get into this my friend?
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: I am, and Rob has taken over my PowerPoint privileges
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: for tonight.
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: Yes, I am the power point daddy, if you will,
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: and real quick. I don't know where it is. It's
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: got lost in the mix. I don't know where to
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: look at posted or I pin the comment, but I
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: don't know how to fucking get I don't know how
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: to get to it on here?
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Do you?
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: Is it up in the bar?
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: I'm looking here?
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: Oh okay, I got it some bitch.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Here we go.
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: Oh that's right. The Double B gifted five memberships to folks.
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: I don't know who've got them.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: But I do, I do?
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: Oh do you? Yes?
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Uh? Mike library Man, m see w y Man seventy seven.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Hopefully I didn't get one. Logical Spark Joe Ellen and
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Perpetual Concepts. What's up?
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: Load? Bravo? Where's my clappers? Man? I really got to
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: figure this shit out. Here we go, Yes, thank you doing,
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: thank you. We appreciate it. The five scuffuses got three memberships.
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: Appreciate it.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: How great is how great is it that paula uses
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: scaff It's awesome. It's great that this word has been
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: added to our fans vocabulary.
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, all right, Joe, are you ready to get into
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: this and see if this works? Yes, sir, no guarantees
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: it will. Just saying uh, okay, amen, sister, unless you
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: want something, motherfucker, get the fuck off. Five Street the
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: language on you.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: That mode, all right, Harry, five Street.
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: The language on you. You blow your photo with that mode?
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: There you go. All right, you laughed over the punchline, Joe, Okay,
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: here we go. Take three mm hmm.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: All right, So we are going to go over the
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: timeline of Oswalt during this is my name the Walker
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: week right. I made this nice little graph here and
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: you will see Oswalt's last day at Jaggers GCYS. I
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: always say it wrong where legitimizing the Jaggers Chivers Stovall, No,
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: but that's close Jaggers. Okay, uh. And you could see
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: that we have the date the arrow here in the
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: middle of the fifth and the six and we will
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: get there because there is some conflicting evidence of when
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: his actual last day was. Now April sixth is a Saturday, right, yes,
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: So there are some documents that say his last day
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: was the sixth. There are some that say there the fifth,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: and we will go over that. On April eighth, as
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: we will get to in a second, we have a
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: HADEL on the ferry flight manifest to Dallas, Texas from
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I think it's Hammond Airfield in Louisiana or Garland, garl No,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: that's where he is going. They left from hand.
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah you said Dallas.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Oh oh yes, yes, I'm sorry, And same day as
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Oswalt contacts and as you see contacts and quotations because
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: we live, yes, the Texas Employment commiss Two days later,
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: on April tenth, which is a Wednesday, we have the
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Walker shooting, and then on April twelfth, we have when
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Oswalt fills out his uninclined as unemployment benefit form at
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: the TEC. So I'll let you take this, rob.
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: Okay, So, this, folks, is the flight plan that was
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: found by the HSCA, that was in some of Garrison's files.
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: He was asked about it, he didn't really say said
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: he really didn't pay much attention to it. But you
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: think that he would if he'd actually read it, because
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: and I named this episode we that's a problem because
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: I'm going to be saying that a lot during this episode. Okay,
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: here's the deal, folks. This flight plan by David Ferry
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: on April eighth, nineteen sixty three, lists three passengers, and
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: they're down there at the bottom bottom right corner high Deel, Oh, Joe,
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: what's going on? A Hidell spelled correctly, Lambert and Diaz. Okay, Now,
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: was Lee Harvey Oswald on this flight? Well, we're gonna
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: try to answer that question this evening, and we're going
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: to actually see if it was possible. We're gonna see
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: if there's any corroborating evidence that even puts him in
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: New Orleans, Okay, in early April. Okay, because he allegedly
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: didn't go to New Orleans until the end of April.
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: I think the twenty third or twenty sixth is when
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: they moved back to New Orleans officially yep.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: And to April.
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I believe it was the twenty sixth. The problem here,
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: when I say that's a problem, okay, is that Oswald
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: adopted allegedly this Alec Jay Hidel Alex James Hidell alias
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: somewhere in the month of February or March. The first
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: time we see him use it is of course, to
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: order a right and a handguing if he you know,
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: of course this is all allegedly. If he's the one
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: that ordered the rifle and the pistol and use that alias,
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: this would be the first instance. Same thing with his
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: ID cards, his selective service cards that were forged, likely
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: at Jagger's child stoveall with the help of a convicted felon. Okay,
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: showing him how to do it. We'll get there as well.
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: Now when I say that's a problem, okay, either you
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: have Lee Harvey Oswald on this plane, but he doesn't
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: want his name on this flight manifesto. He tells Ferry
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: just use Highell that's his alias. He's he's made it up,
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: and he tells Ferry just put Highdell down there. Or
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: here's why it's a problem. If Lee Harvey Oswald is
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: not on this plane and he does not know David
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: Fairry or speak to David Faerry on a regular basis,
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: then you have to explain to me how the fuck
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: David Ferry.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Would know.
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: About Lee Harvey Oswald's alias that he used allegedly to
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: order a rifle and a pistol and make fake IDs.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: For right within a month ish, maybe a little more.
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, within a month or so of their creation. Now,
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: when you take a look at this logically, it would
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: seem to me that obviously either somebody told Fairy that
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: Lee Harvey Oswald is using this alias and the setup
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: started way back in April, or we know that David Ferry,
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: we can establish the fact that David Ferry. Hang on, Joe,
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: I feel like I'm talking to a piece of paper,
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: and I'll add it back when we get to move
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: it on. So when David Ferry, we know David Ferry
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: knew Lee Harvey Oswald in the cat program. Yes, we
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: don't know for sure how well they knew each other
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: and whether or not their relationship continued after this. It
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: might have. We can definitely put these guys in close
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: proximity of each other, if not together in the summer
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: of sixty three, but how about earlier than that? How
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: about earlier than that? So when you're looking at this
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: thing logically, folks, does it make more sense if Oswald
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: is actually there to tell Ferry use my alias? Just
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: put Highdel down there. I don't want my real name
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: on this thing, because maybe they had a plan and
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: we'll get there as well. So Joe, let's continue, you.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: Know, rob one thing, I just noticed and I probably
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: should have noticed this earlier. If you see the destination
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: right of intended landing Garland, Texas. Yeah, look at Roe
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: f alternate right Dallas.
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: Well they're very close together. I mean Garland is like
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: a suburb of Dallas. But yeah, if something goes something's
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: going wrong, and they can't land in Garland, then then
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: of course they'll go to Dallas.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: All right, if you want me to go to the
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: next one, yes, all right.
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: This gives here a little bit of more background on
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: the flight plan. And this is from someone would have
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: talked by our buddy Larry Hancock, and he says David
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: Ferry associated with someone named Diaz in New Orleans with
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: Clay Shaw. I'm with Lee Oswald. Now, of course Clay
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: Shaw is alleged to have used the Lambert alias Clay
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: Clem Lambert or Clay Lambert. By itself, it's just another teaser.
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: But there is another report from the Garrison investigation by
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: a young man named Jules Rico Kimball. Now, folks who
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: did a show on Jewels, Rico Kimball some months back,
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: he could not have known about the Gurnius interview. I
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: wait till Joe's done, scratching his mic to all the hell.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: No, I had to take my sweater off. Hot as
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: hell down here. I'm sorry.
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: He described a flight that he himself took with David Ferry,
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: a man named Clay Shaw, and another man who was
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: either Mexican or Cuban, a heavyset man, Dark Baulding in
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: the front in his thirties, who spoke only in broken English.
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: For what it's worth, that is a perfect description for
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: Harmoneo Diaz Garcia. The Kimball flight was in a Cessna,
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: which is what the aircraft is on the flight plan.
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: The Guarnias flight plan also lists the aircraft used as Assessana,
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: and we have photos of David Ferry with Assessna in
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: company with an associate of Frank Sturgis's on a nineteen
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: sixty two planning trip for a Cuban Revolutionary Council training
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: camp in the New Orleans area, and his No. Number
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: twenty sixth interview. David Ferry emphatically denied these charges that
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: he had here had been in Texas for about the
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: last eight or ten years before his recent road trip
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: to Houston. David Ferry must have been very frightened to
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: lie to the Secret Service. Unfortunately, they were not aware
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: that it was a lie. If they'd had this flight planned, Joe,
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: they would have known it was a lie. Yes, that
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: leaves us with some interesting names from New Orleans and
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: a flight to Texas in April of sixty three with
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: absolutely no validation. But then another flight for New Orleans
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: was reported with the same pilot, same type of plane,
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: and a familiar passenger. The same type of plane which
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: David Ferry used in survey flights for a proposed CRC
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: training camp in sixty two was Ferry shuttling persons of
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: interest and possibly weapons in the spring of sixty three.
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: Interestingly enough, there is corroboration for just that, and a
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: report from the HSCA investigation and an HSCA memo from
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: Jack Moriarty to Cliff Fenton April twenty seven, nineteen seventy seven. Interesting. Yeah,
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: next line, so again when we're talking about alias is
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: here folks. Of course we know who Hadel was Lambert,
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: that's Shaw. But now Diaz is a little tougher and
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: like we were told on the show by our buddy
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: Monkey Morales, junior Cuban people and people of Latin descent,
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: they have like ten or fifteen last names because they're
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: named after everybody in the freaking family. So when you
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: say Diaz, you know, uh, that could apply to a
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: lot of different people. But we decided to focus on
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: two in particular here. I mean, we know there are others,
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: but these two in particular were accused of being involved
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: in the assassination of JFK. One is Tony Nestor Escaderio Diaz.
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: The others FROMONEO Diaz. Uh was his last name Joe
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: Garcia Garcia yes right next slide Yes, with.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Also possibility of Maybury, Pedro Diaz Lands. But he was
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: a pilot himself, so I don't think that or his
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: brother Marco Diaz Lands.
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: Possibly or somebody else was using the Diaz alias. It's
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: quite possible. Diaz is like Martin, right, Diz is like Smith, Yeah,
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: Johnson or Jones. Very common last name, middle name, fourth
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: middle name, whatever you wanna call it. So there's been
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: the allegations that Lee Harvey Oswald quit Jaggers Child Stoveall,
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: that Lee Harvey Oswald was fired from Jaggers Child Stoveveall,
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: and that he was laid off from Jaggers Child Stovevall
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: So what is the truth here, folks now? According to
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: John Armstrong in his research, April sixth was Lee Harvey
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: Oswald's last day of work at Jagger's child Stowveall. The
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: same day, a flight plan was filed from New Orleans
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: to Garland, Texas with the Federal Aviation Administration. The flight
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: plan listed the captain of the airplane as d. Ferry
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: and three passengers as Diaz Lambert and Hidel Okay. Garland,
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: Texas was the same airport where Lee Oswald in May
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: of sixty one went met with Ray Karney at hangar
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: Won on several occasions over a period of seven to
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: nine days, while of course Harvey Oswald was in Russia
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: if you believe in Harvey theory. Now, consequently, Joe, there's
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: some unidentified SKUFFUSII creeping around General Walker's house. On Saturday,
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: April sixth, General Walker's aide, Robert Surrey boy or boyfriend
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: whatever you want to call him, was driving in the
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: alley behind Walker's house at nine PMID night and observed
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: two white men. White males emerged from a dark colored
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: brown or purple nineteen sixty three ford with white license plates.
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: After the men realized that a neighbor was watching them.
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: They jumped into the ford and took off. Surrey followed
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: the car to the downtown area of Dallas and then
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: lost them. On April tenth, the day of the Walker shooting,
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: Surrey told the Dallas Police that two men were he
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: observed on Saturday, April sixth. A year later, June sixteenth,
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: sixty four, Spurry told the Warrant Commission that he observed
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: the two men on Monday, April eighth, which is important
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: if you are paying attention, folks. Yes, on Monday, April eighth,
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: Ruth Payne visited Marina at the Neely Street apartment. But
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't at home. Boy, damn sure wasn't
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: at work either, Joe definitely not. According to TEC. Now
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: you'll hear TEC a lot tonight. That is, the Texas
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: and Employment Commission records say Oswald visited their office that day.
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: But actually that's not what their records say. But we'll
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: get there, I promise. On Tuesday, April ninth, Walker aid
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: Max Clunch observed a suspicious looking cuban in in nineteen
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: fifty seven Chevy as he drove slowly around Walker's house
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: several times now. According to Lee's brother Robert Oswald, from
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: his book Lee My Brother, he says Lee was working
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: full time. Now how he knows, I don't fucking know,
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: because I don't think he was talking to Robert No
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: very much in sixty three. But this is what he
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: put in his book, so we'll put it out there.
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: He says Lee was working full time Monday through Friday
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: until April sixth, So during the first couple of weeks
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: he had the rifle, his practice was necessarily limited, chiefly
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: to weekends. On April seventh, the day after he was fired. Okay, now,
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: he alleged Lee was fired from Jackers Child Stovewall, We'll
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: get there. He went out to General Walker's house with
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: the intention of shooting his ass, and this would have
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: been on Sunday, April seventh. Allegedly, since he was no
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: longer working, he may well spend some time on April sixth,
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: seventh eight nineteen tenth practicing before he went out for
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: the second time on April tenth and actually fired through
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: a window at Walker. But he still was not absolutely
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: familiar with the weapon and his practice time was limited,
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: and two factors could help account for his failure to
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: hit Walker. Now, the reason Robert Oswald says he remembers
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: all this shit is because April seventh is my birthday.
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: On April seventh, nineteen sixty three, Lee took his newly
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: purchased rifle to the home General Walker with the attention
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: of shooting him. April tenth is the birthday of my son,
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: Robert Daward Lee Oswald Jr. On April tenth, nineteen sixty three,
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: Lee again went out to General Walker's home, stood there
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: in the darkness, and fired through a glass window at
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: the General allegedly. Now again, how Robert Oswald knows this,
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: I had no idea. Man, it has to be secondhand.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: He's just repeating shit.
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: Or he's just yeah, he's being told what to say,
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: and he believes that. He believes the whole letter that
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: Lee left Marina and all that horseshit. But yeah, next side,
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: please sir okay again. April sixth, According to the testimony
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: of Marguerite, this is Oswald's last day of employment at
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: Jaggers Child stoveall of Saturday. See also time cards for
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: employment publishes CE eighteen fifty five in two three one
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: on pages six twenty four and six twenty five. Jaggers
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: Child Stoveall Photo department manager also indicates that April sixth
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: was Oswald's last day deposition of John Graff. This data, however,
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: defies logic, as Saturday work was overtime, and by that
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: point in time, Oswald's work was viewed as lousy and
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: Jaggers was not likely to pay him overtime to do
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: virtually nothing correct on his last day of work. Either way,
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: the end of the job coincides with the alleged Walker preparation.
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: With less than three weeks. Oswald was in New Orleans.
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: Probably less than that, Joe, but I digress, We'll get there.
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: Dennis Aufstein would testify that he mentioned the last day
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: he was a Daggers Child Stoveall. I asked him what
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: he was going to do. Where he would go to work,
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: and he said, I don't know. He liked the type
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: of work at the company, and then he would like
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: to stay with this type of work and he would
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: look around and if he didn't find anything else, he
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: could always go back to Russia. And sort of laughed
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: about it, but Oswald wasn't joking because it was around
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: this time that he started writing letters to the Russian
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: embassy in Washington begging for them to send him and
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: his family back to Russia, which later turned to well
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: just just send my wife and kids back, I'll see.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: Note of note. John Graft, photo department director at Jaggers,
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: would go on to testify that quote. In the course
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: of carrying these jobs through and back in the dark room,
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: I began to hear vague rumors of friction between him
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: and the other employees. I began hearing that he or
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: began noticing that very few people actually liked him. He
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: was very difficult to get along with. Lee was not
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: one to make friends. Then we'll say his personality began
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: to come out. And there was an incident about a
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: Russian newspaper deal and he said, I studied Russia in Korea.
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: Yet I don't think Oswald was ever in Korea. But okay,
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: But mostly it was Oswald's poor, piss poor work product.
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: More and more he was being relied upon to produce
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: the exact work, and there were too many times it
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: was his mistakes were above normal. He was making too
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: many mistakes. Well, my impression of his mistakes were somehow
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: that he just couldn't manage to avoid him. It wasn't
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: that he lacked industry or didn't try. I think he
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: just couldn't. He somehow couldn't manage to handle work. That
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: was exact the deposition of John Graff April sixth time
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: unstated presum in Dallas, on the date of his termination
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: from Jagger's child stoveall Lee Oswald was given an imitation
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: to visit Dennis Austein and his family. Austin, because of
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: his abilities with the Russian language, was the closest thing
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: to a friend Oswald's handed Jaggers. As far as the
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: written imitation to Oswald, none whatsoever was the response. Apparently
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: Oswald did not go. He said, fuck you, Dennis. Yeah,
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: next live please go, Yeah, Joe, if you want to
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: tell some people about this Kafuz Yeah.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: So John Caesar Grossi, who we covered recently, also worked
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: as at jagger Childs Stoveall got that h but his
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: actual name was Jack ol I think it's Leslie right Bowyn.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: And he was the one who co signed THEE. Harvey
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: Oswalt's library card for Dallas. Yes, and we went over
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: his criminal record. I mean you could see it here.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: Check forgery, impersonation, dire act a couple of times, armed robbery, violation.
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: Of parole, lifelong con man and burglar and drinker and
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: just a con artist basically.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: Right, And he kind of went at a memory from
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: her last show we did on him. He kind of
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: FBI was looking for him for a few years, I
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: think until sixty six or something, right when he.
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: Was finally arrested in nineteen seventy or seventy one. So
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: they're right for a while, right, But.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: This is who Oswalt had signed his library cards. So
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: was his best friend mister Grossi or jack leslie Bowen
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: or was it Ostein. I've never heard of any relationship
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: with Oswalt and Ostein, But that's besides it.
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: Oswald is forging documents like government documents at Jaggers Charlestovall.
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: He likely learned it from this guy, right, and they
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: probably made alias cards for this guy as well.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, his fingerprints are still redacted. I believe you can
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: see that part on the bottom right hand corner. And
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: I'll let you take this. We'll get to the backyard
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: photo the famous Hunter of Fascists ha ha, right, which
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: was de Moorn Shield's copy correct.
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: Yep so on April the fifth, according to Walt Brown
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: and his master analytic chronology, time unstated. Lee Oswald puts
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: the five rema numeral four sixty three on a print
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: of a photo from the backyard, with him holding a
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: rifle and newspapers and wearing a pistol in his holder.
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: The photo, along with English Russian photograph records loan to
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: Oswald by George de moorn Shield, was mailed to de
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: Mornshield's address shortly before he left the United States for Haiti.
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: The package was stored, according to de moorins Shield, and
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: the photo was only discovered in sixty seven after they
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: got back from Haiti. This particular backyard photo had the
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: notation in Russian high ahaha, hunter of Fascists, and from
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: an examination of the handwriting compared to other samples published
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: or privately owned, it's high likely that Marina wrote the
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: caption and not oswald editor's hypothesis, which, if correct, would
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: have seen nearly as funny a few days later, when
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: it is alleged the Hunter of Fascists took a shot
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: at General Walker. It is also to be recalled at
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: occasional points through this narrative that when Marina was first
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: taken to the Dallas police station, she denied ever having
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: seen Oswald's rifle, despite the fact that she photographed him
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: with it. This created a series Catch twenty two for
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: the Warrant Commission, as they had Marina admitting to important
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: evidence against her husband with respect to a gun that
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: she never saw, accepting the inch or so visible at
• 59:47
  Speaker 4: the butt end of the blanket. So yeah, Allegedly this
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: photo was signed at some point dated by Oswald on
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: April fifth, and but not given not given to de
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 4: Moarnshield in April fifth. Rather, he put it in amongst
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 4: some Russian English phonographic records that George de Morn's Shield
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: had loaned to him. He mailed them to de Mornshield's
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: address shortly before he left the United States for Haiti.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: Now de Mornshield would leave for Haiti, I believe sometime
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: at the end of April or beginning of May. So
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: it wasn't too much longer after this.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a week or two. Yeah, it was
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: in a week or two of of Oswald leaving.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: For Yeah, officially because it says to my friend George
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: from Lee Oswald five Revenumber four sixty three. That's how
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: Russians wrote dates.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's at the bottom. Let me see. Yeah,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: that's that's at the bottom corner here.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 4: That does not mean May the fourth, That means the
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 4: fifth day of the fourth month in sixty three.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: Excellent. Oh man, this is uh, this has gotten interesting, sir.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: All right, Joe, if you if you would get us
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: into the Texas Employment Commission. Sure, So.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: We're going to be going through some of the Cunningham
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: the Helen Cunningham exhibits, who was an employee at the
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: Texas Employment Commission who allegedly, you know, wrote dealt with
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: Oswalt right, and she says, the green ink entry of
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: the facing side means ten thirty sixty two. They're talking
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: a little later. The succeeding entry being four eight sixty three,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: records the fact that Oswald came to the Commission on
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: that date seeking employment, he having lost this position at
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: Jaggers Chiles Stovall. The succeeding entry for twelve sixty three,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: which would have been that Friday, remember four to eight
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: was the Monday Walker chootd Wednesday, records the fact that
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: Oswald visited the commission officers in further pursuit of employment.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: The succeeding entry, which is in Green crayon five eight
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: sixty three, when considered with the entry dated five three
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: sixty three in the referral section of the exhibit, records
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: the fact that on that day Oswaldt was mailed a
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: call in card for a possible referral to Texas Power
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: and Light Company for a position as meter reader, but
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: failed to respond. The next entry on the face of
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: Cunningham Exhibit number one day records the fact that his
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: case was reactivated as of that date, and the fire
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: final entry you know, ten seventeen, which is right around
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: when he got the job at the TSBD and Green
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: Crown records the closing of his case to him having
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: a dange apployment. This entry is related to the final
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: entry in the referral section of Cunningham Exhibit number one A,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: which recites under the heading remarks that at ten thirty
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: a m oh no, that's irrelevant. So here we have
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: on the top right corner here, let me see if
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: I could zoom in. This is the card that was
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: filled out by Lee Harvey Oswalt on the twelfth right
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: that Friday, two days after the walker shooting. Okay, making
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: his claim, Rob, would you think that there would be
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: something like this on April eighth, maybe when he won it?
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, if he went in to the Employment commissioner
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 4: on the eighth, which is Monday, they would have had
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: him fill this out. Then, now blows this up a
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: little bit more, if you can, Joe, now at the
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: bottom here, everybody needs to take notice to this.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: Ye.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: Now we've heard up until now to this very point
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: that Oswald's last day was the sixth, which was Saturday,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 4: which would have been all the time for him. He
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: states his last day was April fifth, which will be Friday,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 4: nineteen sixty three. And I was laid off by John Graf,
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: head of Photography and Art department, due to the lack
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: of work. Okay, so he wasn't fired, He didn't quit.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: He was supposedly laid off because of lack of work. Yet, Joe,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: we've gone over and I don't know if they're in
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 4: this thing somewhere, but we've gone over Oswald's work records
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: for Jaggers, Child Stovevall. This son of a bitch was
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: working fifteen to twenty hours of overtime every week from
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: the time he started. Yes, and he made child stovevall
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 4: since October of sixty two.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, his longest job, most stable job by far, that.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 4: He had upon returning to the United States. And he
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 4: was working fifteen or twenty hours overtime every week. There
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: was one week he had to have worked every day
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: because he got so much overtime.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's not on this power point, but our
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: members only show. You went through his paychecks and the
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: amount of hours he worked per week, and he was
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: working significant amount of overtime.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: So what is going on? He wasn't the only one,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: and if he was working all this overtime, but he's
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: supposedly sucked at his job. Joe, if you were Lee
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 4: Harvey Oswald's boss, would you be paying this guy all
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: this overtime if he'd sucked at his job?
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: No, if I put my manager hat on, not at all.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: Or would you reward your best employees with the overtime?
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: In theory that would be true.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 4: Now, maybe there's more people working overtime than just Oswald.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: We don't know. But if there was, then how can
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: they say that he's laid off due to lack of
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: work when he's consistently working fifteen or twenty hours overtime
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: every week. And I'm sure he's not the only person
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: there doing that. So how can they justify a layoff
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 4: for a lack of work? And then you have Graft
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 4: trashing him, saying his work sucks and he and he
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 4: kept screwing up making mistakes. You know, you don't reward
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 4: people like that with overtime, especially on a Saturday.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, after you've yeah, if you're about to fire him
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: or fired him already, it doesn't make sense.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 4: Nothing about this makes sense nothing.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: Uh do you want me to read this under that?
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Because now, or just preface this. I can't see it.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 4: You have to blow it up. Let me preface this
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 4: by saying that confidential informant Dallas t One was likely
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 4: Harry Holmes. Remember folks that the FBI and this and
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: or the CIA were opening Oswald's mail. I think at
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: this time it was the FBI.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I could read it if you.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: Liked, I got it. Okay, So we have a confidential
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: informant Dallas t One, again likely Harry Holmes, the postal inspector,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: and how he's getting all this information through the mail?
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 4: Dallas t One advised and on April twenty ninth, sixty three.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 4: Oswald had on April twelfth initiated a claim for unemployment
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 4: insurance at the Commerce Street office of the Texas Employment
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: Commission in Dallas, and the IB one form filled on
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 4: April twenty, ninety sixty three was a renewal of the
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 4: claim filed in Texas.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: Can I stop you there, yeah, initiated on April twelfth,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: not April.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 4: Eighth, correct, got it? Dallas T one stated that insomuch
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: as this case was an interstate case, an interstate supplementary
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 4: form IB ten was sent to Texas for the purpose
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 4: of classifying Oswald. As to his classifications assignment. He was
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 4: classified in Group C, which means that it was questionable
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 4: as to whether or not he would be employed soon
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: because his work history indicated that the likelihood of a
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 4: continuing question as to his new availability, his attachment to
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: a particular area in the labor market, that he moved
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 4: around a lot, and had irregular employment. Dallas T one
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 4: stated that the monetary eligibility determination date was set as
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 4: April sixteenth, nineteen sixty three, at which time, according to
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 4: the TEC, he was ineligible for unemployment insurance, which was
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 4: later resolved by the submission of Form IB one submitted
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 4: to Texas dated April twenty five, blah blah blah blah
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 4: blah blah blah, and he was found to be eligible
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 4: to receive thirty three dollars a week on unemployment insurance compensation. Again,
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 4: this is all gleaned by the post inspector, likely Harry
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: Holmes opening the Texas Employment Convention, the mail to Lee
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 4: Harvey Oswald in New Orleans, or god that was going
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 4: to New Orleans.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, he his mail.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 4: They were opening his mail and they were reporting about
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 4: even this these details.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and yeah. It seems to me he did
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: one of these forms to say I have moved out
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: of state, but I am still eligible for unemployment right right,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: and uh.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 4: Let the FBI know all this shit, right Harry Holmes.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 6: Oh man, by the way, at the DPD on Sunday,
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 6: November twenty fourth, So hold on, let me.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: Hold on. I might have messed up some of this, but.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 4: These are just files from the Texas Employment Commission. This
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 4: is Lee Harvey Ossol's master file. Basically, you know, instead
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 4: of creating a new file every time something happened with
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 4: his employment or unemployment or something or change of address,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 4: anything like that. They had a master file that they
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 4: would alter information. That's why this is filled out with pencil. Okay,
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 4: because there, as we'll see here in a second, there
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 4: is instances of things being erased and changed. Yes, yes,
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: we don't with the fine tooth comb, but yeah.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so here we do.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 4: Here we do.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: This is the Linen dex, which is a process for
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: recording contact with the h applicant, if that's the right word.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And I.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: Believe the one on the left is Exhibit one, Cunningham
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: Exhibit one, and on the right is Cunningham Exhibit one A.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: And you might notice some differences. Now you could see
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: the top date on the left side here is ten
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: to nine, which you know kind of lines up here.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: It's a little more maybe it was copied better. Right,
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: you have ten ten sixty two, ten ten sixty two. Okay,
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: you have a blank space under ten ten sixty two, conveniently, yes,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: But on the right side you have ten thirty sixty two.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: And of course the dates we are really interested in
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: is four eight sixty three, which would have been that
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: Monday after he was fired from Jaggers on Friday or Saturday,
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: the fifth of the sixth or laid off or laid off, yes,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: laid off, sorry, you know, kind of the same. Although
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: the eights look a little different to me. Maybe it's
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: the copying, I don't know. The threes look a little
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: different to me too, to be honest.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 4: And the four, all three numbers looks looks very dissimilar. Yes, so,
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 4: I mean they look very similar. But if you really
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 4: really go at him, uh.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's much more space between this four than this four.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and allegedly and the eight and something happened, like
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 4: something I guess major happens. She is miss Cunningham. Helen Cullingham.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 4: Cunningham said that she wrote with a green crayon. Okay, uh,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 4: the date, which is why it is not in pencil.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 4: That all the ones that are not in pencil are
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 4: supposedly in green crayon.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: Right. And of course there might have been some contact
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: with the Texas Employment Commission on April the eighth, but
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: was it a call or was it in person? Because
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: why don't we have his unemployment claim like we showed
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: a couple slides ago for the eighth and then even
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: more sus the next line down you got four to
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: twelve sixty three, which is of course the date he
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: filled out that unemployment claim. And on the right you
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: have four to twelve sixty three, also a little oh,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: it's the same, but there's a C and it is
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: x out. Now, C I believe means call.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 4: But this is xed out right because Oswald was actually there.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 4: He had to be there in person to fill out
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 4: that form that we just saw before.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: Right, we have a blank space in the next column
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: on the left hand side here, And this makes.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 4: Sense is if that Monday the eighth, what would make
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 4: sense is that Oswald wouldn't go there in person. He
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 4: would call them on the phone and just let them know, Hey, look,
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 4: I just got fired or laid off from Jagger's Child.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 4: You know where I was working. I just wanted to
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 4: let you know, what do I need to do. And
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 4: they probably said, well, you know, come in, come in
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 4: and see us. Maybe they set an appointment up for
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 4: the twelfth for him to come in there. Maybe he
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 4: told them that he couldn't come in till the twelfth.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 4: We don't know, but he was definitely in the office
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 4: on the twelfth, and likely not in the office on
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 4: the eighth, or else he would have done all this
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 4: paperwork then right, right, and.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: Like the first entry you see here on the top
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: where you see that ten nine sixty two, right, it's
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: a little fainter on the left, a little less faint
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: on the right. Or yeah, and this column here and
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: this column here, there is nothing written that I could see,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: like no faintness, and I blew this up.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 4: So how they how they would conveniently skip lines for
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 4: future used to backdate things blows my mind.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you have the ten three sixty three on the
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: next line. Uh, you have ten three sixty three on
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: the corresponding linenex record on the right. Okay, that that
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: lines up below that. You have a blank spot under
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: ten three on the right. You have something which I
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: which is a call. Right they're saying he called this
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: date or I think we have the explanation of all
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: these later. So what shenanigans? What's skuffoozie? Are they pulling here?
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know, to be honest, but.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 4: You look at the LUGA. Just looked at four eight
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 4: sixty three crossed eyes the left and right match perfectly. Yes,
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 4: you might need to do that for them to actually
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 4: match perfectly. Yes, we understand. I mean they look very similar,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 4: But if you look at the four on the right,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 4: there's much much more empty white space in between the
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 4: two uprights of the four one on the left. Same
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 4: with the eight. There's more space in the eight and
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 4: the left.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: And the third and the six and the six and
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: the three three is a little weird. I don't know,
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: and and and the C crossed out on the twelfth.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: So there's something fishy going on here.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we think, we think, we think.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: So, uh, do you want to go to this next?
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: Is this the order you put it in?
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah? This is where mister Adams, this is the guy
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 4: to Texas Employment Commission, is pointing out the significance of
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 4: the lindex strip.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: Right, which we just showed you. Right, I'm just going
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: to go back both. This is the index strip. This
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: is the index strip.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 4: They also look very different. Basically, the receptionist has a
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 4: listing of all the applicants who are currently registered with
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 4: their office. Then for each applicant there are one or
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 4: more application cards covering a primary code in occupational code,
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 4: which is that code in which we feel he has
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 4: best qualified, the additional card cards being for secondary codes
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 4: or other jobs which he might be qualified for or
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 4: which he may.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: Have had before had performed in the past.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so that there would be one or more application cards,
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 4: a lidex strip and the counseling records of the individual
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 4: have been counseled. But basically what this means is instead
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 4: of having twenty thousand different cards application cards, they would
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 4: have these lindex strips that they would put on the
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 4: side of the application card, right, they could update and
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 4: copy and do backdate and yeah, then.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: They talk more about this. I think we might skip
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: this a little bit. Uh, Yeah, were photo static copies made?
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: Do you know? Mister Jenner asks mister Robert Adams that
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: I do not know, sir. Apparently I did talk to
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: him on the phone several times, because the card indicates
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: that I had done so, and I do not recall
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: all convenient mister Jenner, Well, do you recall when you
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: were interviewed on the FBI November twenty seven sixty three, Yes, sir,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: And then they talked about the TSBD stuff.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 4: And the next thing tells about how well that conversation continued.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 4: Basically says that they recorded it with a c if
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 4: there was a call. Hence that's how you know.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: Right exactly right, which is you know there was no
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: C for example on the eighth, but the C was
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: crossed out. I mean, then you have this is the
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: Birkham who was also employ of the Texas Employment Commission.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: This is exhibit one of his little exhibit and you
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: could see this is the form that he filled out
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: on the the sixteenth. I believe it was. No, it
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: might have been the twelfth. This might have been the
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: same one you had before.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 4: It's the sixteenth.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 4: This is one of the forms that that Harry Holmes
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 4: was referring to that got mailed to Louisiana. If you
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 4: see at the top he's got Louisiana code and.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: The yeah you're right, yeah, yep, okay, So you see
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: the April fifth, the April sixth date here.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 4: Right then we go wa wah, whoa go back. What's
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 4: interesting here is if you look there where it says
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 4: Jagger's Child Stoveall Company. Look how many employees they have there,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 4: two hundred, two fucking hundred, and they consistently have Oswald
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 4: working fifteen to twenty hours overtime every week and he
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 4: sucks and they had nobody else to give overtime to bullshit.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 4: Something is definitely fishy.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, we go to another card or this is the
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: one we read before, which says the fifth right claim
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: date the twelfth, which would have been that Friday, two
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: days after the Walker shooting. We have another TEC document,
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: this is the Burkham exhibit continued, and we have the
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: claim date being the twelfth, not the eighth. Again, and
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: you see his Neely Street address crossed out for the
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: New Orleans one. Then this is a document from November
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: twenty sixth sixty three, which would have been two days
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: after Lee was killed. On April twelfth, sixty three, Oswalt
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: filed a claim in our Dallas office listing Jagger Chiles
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: Stoveall as his last employer. He showed that he was
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: separated on April fifth. I have a red arrow pointing
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: to that sixty three because I was laid off by
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: John Cravis Craves, head of the Photography and Art department,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: due to lack of work. He showed his occupation to
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: be a photographer and his age to be twenty three.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: He listed his address as Neely. Okay, then we have
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: another mhm uh Bertram exhibit, claim date on the twelfth
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: again not the eighth, and uh yeah, let's let's let's
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: stop there for a second and before we get into
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: some of the Church committee and I and S documents,
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: maybe uh show some comments if you're cool with that.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, can you remove that?
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 4: Mm hmm, yeah, you see any good.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I saw a couple of them, but are
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: starring is.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 4: Not up to Paria?
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: The the the blooper was fun. It was a good stuff.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: I'm glad people enjoyed it. Rob. Rob surprised me with that.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 4: I couldn't. I couldn't resist.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: It's funny, man. I mean, we have bloopers, but we
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: did it in one take and Rob did an amazing
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: job editing.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 4: So uh.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 4: So basically what we're trying to paint a picture of here, folks,
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 4: is could Oswald have been on this flight with David
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 4: Ferry on April the eighth, which would have been Monday, right, Yeah, Monday,
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 4: April the eighth. Now, the evidence so far that we
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 4: have to show this is the fact that Ruth Payne
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 4: visit did Marina in April eighth, and Lee Aso wasn't there.
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 4: He was allegedly at work as he is allegedly has
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 4: not told Marina yet that he got fired or was
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 4: let go allegedly.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: So that brings me to a good point, because I
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: want to do what we like to do here recently. Rob,
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: let's do a thought experiment.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 4: I'm down, Okay, I am.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: I am Lee Harvey Skafuza. I have a kid, Marina.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: My wife is not happy with, you know, her living
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: situation in the United States and the job I held
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: for the longest time since coming back from Russia. I
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: was just fired from on April fifth or sixth. Yeah,
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: he comes home with a baby and a baby on
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: the way, and he goes, hey, babe. I'm sure you
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: didn't say babe. Maybe there's a Russian translation for I
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: just got fired. Knowing their relationship, do you think a
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: fight would have ensued?
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 4: Yes, right, one thousand percent. Now, if you remember Joe,
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 4: they were living at Neely Street in Dallas right right
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 4: at this time. Now, Neely Street is an interesting address.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 4: Is where that's supposedly the backyard photos are taken, and
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 4: this is also where their landlord, George got reports that
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 4: Oswald was beating his wife, drinking heavily or theough. I'm
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 4: pretty sure probably Marina the one drinking heavily, not Oswald.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 4: Uh, so them getting in a knockdown drag out. I
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 4: mean you have to figure if, uh, what month was
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 4: Rachel born October?
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: I believe it was October, Yes, all.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 4: Right, so that's the tenth month. So if you go
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 4: back nine months, you're back around January into January, beginning
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 4: of February, when she would have likely gotten pregnant. So
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 4: by this time, she's not really that pregnant. If she
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 4: even knew she was pregnant at this point, she would
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 4: have been like two or three months pregnant. She probably
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 4: knew probably you know, didn't have her period anymore or whatever,
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 4: maybe had a little bump starting to go right, But
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 4: she wasn't like full on pregnant at this point, so
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 4: her hormones are probably all fucked up. Oswald comes home Friday,
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 4: He's like, ah, they let me go. Shit, Now, what's
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 4: if you're Lee Harvey Oswald, all right, you're in Texas.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 4: Probably didn't like Texas very much. That's where his mom is,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 4: who's an insufferable bitch, and his brother is he doesn't
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 4: talk too uh, and he was not having good luck
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 4: on the job front.
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: He just got fired right from his longest job, yeah, Staple.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 4: And in Texas ever since he came back from Russia.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 4: So chances are they got in a fight and he's like,
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 4: all right, fuck this, I'm out. I'm going to New
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 4: Orleans tomorrow and I'm going to check out the job scene.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 4: Talk to my aunt and uncle, see what see if
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 4: we can find a place to stay. And we were
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 4: getting the hell out of Texas and starting over in
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 4: New Orleans, I'll be back. Don't tell anybody anything different.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 4: Don't tell anybody I got fired or let go. But
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 4: you know, and I'm guessing that's how the conversation went around.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 4: And if that's the case, and Oswald hopped on a
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 4: bus Saturday morning, he made it to New Orleans by
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 4: Saturday evening.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: For sure, probably via street board. Yes, passed through there.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it probably took him six or seven hours to
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 4: get there via bus. But he likely would have made
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 4: it there sometime Saturday evening. So does that make it
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 4: possible for him to have been on the plane on
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 4: Monday at one o'clock with David Ferry and Lambert and
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 4: Diaz to heading back to Texas for something Now, something
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 4: big happens two days later, so you can only imagine,
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 4: Okay that if Oswald knew Fairy better than everybody thinks
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 4: that he did. Okay, And he goes back to New
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 4: Orleans and he looks up his old pal Dave may
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 4: or may not have rubbed his thighs as a young boy,
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 4: and they got to talking and they come up with
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 4: a plan to take out General Walker, or or General
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 4: Walker was kind of in the know with people in
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 4: New Orleans, certain people in New Orleans. Definitely Banister, definitely,
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 4: Jack Martin, definitely, the Joe Newborough definitely can't Courtney, Leander Perez,
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 4: Definitely Leander Perez. So maybe they came up with this
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 4: half cocked idea to simulate an assassination attempt on General Walker,
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 4: or they really did figure we're gonna take this fascist
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 4: motherfucker out before he turns into Hitler. You know, yeah,
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 4: don't know either way, it doesn't really matter. But we'll
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 4: get there, I promise, So, Joe, next slide, please sure.
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: So now we'll get to some church committee testimony and
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: I let you go wrong.
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 4: Okay, So I realize you're gonna need more proof. Was
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 4: Oswald in New Orleans at the beginning of April not
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 4: the end of April? Okay, you asked for proof, I'm
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 4: gonna give it to you a couple times. The first
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 4: one we have here is a report from thes Okay.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 4: An Immigration and New Naturalization Service inspector testified before the
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 4: Church Committee that he is absolutely certain that he interviewed
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 4: Lee Harvey Oswald in a New Orleans jail cell sometime
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 4: before April tenth sixty three, because that's the date that
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 4: he was transferred out of New Orleans.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, the day of the Walker shooting.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 4: Okay, this is a report from ANNs officer who knew
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 4: the date that he left New Orleans, and it was
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 4: before that, shortly before that. Yeah, okay, yes, And I
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 4: want to harp on the words of.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: Not I think I interviewed Lee Harvey Oswalt in New Orleans.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 4: I am absolutelytely certain, certain.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: Strong words.
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 4: Now down at the bottom, it's bracketed their testimony of
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 4: inspector twelve eleven seventy five. The inspector doesn't recall whether
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 4: on this occasion he went.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: To the.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 4: Police station police station in response to a routine call,
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 4: or whether he learned that Oswald was claiming to be
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 4: an alien during a routine visit, So he doesn't remember
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 4: why he got summoned to the jail. But we'll get
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 4: there Joe next, all right. The inspector is now not
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 4: certain whether Oswald was using that particular name at the time.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 4: He is certain that Oswald was claiming to be a
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 4: Cuban alien, and that he interviewed Oswald to verify or
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 4: disprove this status. The inspector, excuse me, neither recalls what
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 4: Oswald said or what languages he talked in. He does
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 4: not recall anything unusual about Oswald's dresser demeanor, and believes
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 4: that he quickly ascertained that Oswald was not a Cuban,
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 4: at which time he would have left Oswald in his
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 4: jail cell or likely told him turn this motherfucker loose,
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 4: get him out of here. This is a giant waste
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 4: of fucking time, right, So Schweiker asked him, well, what
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 4: if the person is claiming to be a foreigner and
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 4: he isn't. Now, how do you run that down? Inspector says, well,
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 4: I've never run into a case where a guy claimed
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 4: to be a foreigner and he was actually a United
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 4: States citizen where he didn't break individually, because when the
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 4: Immigration Service comes into play and you advise him if
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 4: you are in the United States illegally and you're subject
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 4: to the deportation and these kinds of things. So in
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 4: all probabilities, something like that would have happened in Oswald's incident.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 4: He said, yeah, I'm sure, so again likely cut loose,
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 4: giant wasted time. Next slide. Now we turned to Wendell Roach,
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 4: who was a very interesting Church Committee things officer as well. Yeah,
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 4: Wendell Roach mentions the name of Ron Smith, a Border
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 4: Patrol inspector with the New Orleans station of the ins
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 4: who received a call from the New Orleans police about
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 4: Oswald being arrested. Oswald claimed to be Russian, insisting he
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 4: spoke only Russian. He was released when he admitted he
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 4: was American. He was released when he admitted he was American.
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 4: The story of Smith, finally told the Church Committee, was
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 4: what that Oswald claimed to be a Cuban, But it
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 4: makes more sense that he claimed to be a Russian
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 4: and spoke Russian and like the high dl id or
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 4: some dumb shit, and he threatened to deport his ass
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 4: and then he's like, ah, just kidding, I'm really American.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: And listen, we know Oswalt wied right based on the
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: August ninth or tenth interview right on a bunch of things.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: We know Oswalt stretched the truth a lot. I could
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: see Oswalt doing something like this, right, it's not stretched credulity.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I can see him fucking with him and then
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 4: they're like, whoa, We'll just to port you to rest
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 4: with them. And I'm like, oh, well, wait a minute,
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 4: hold on, I'm really an American now, I keet the
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 4: fuck out of here. And that is from a Farewell
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 4: to Justice by Joan Mellon. Now on August ninth, when
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 4: Oswald was arrested in New Orleans, he also told the
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 4: arresting officers that he was Huban born. Smith had interviewed
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 4: Oswald on April tenth. Okay, now, God lover Joan Mellon,
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 4: She does get some things wrong, including names and dates
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 4: very frequently. Yes, uh so, very doubtful that Smith interviewed
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 4: Oswald on April tenth. It was likely before that, having
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 4: gone down to see Oswald and jail to verify her
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 4: disprove this status. In sixty three, both IIS inspectors testified
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 4: I has had a responsibility for surveilling certain Cuban groups
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 4: in New Orleans. An assignment from the DOJ. Smith had
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 4: an office, and Roach began. Then the interviewer suddenly cuts
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 4: him off. The interview of James Smith, not Ron Smith.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 4: Anymore of US customs remains classified. Wendell Roaches two observed
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 4: Oswald's going into the offices of Ferri's group and said
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 4: Oswald was known to be one of the men in
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 4: the group. So here you have corroboration that maybe Oswald
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 4: and Ferry were closer than you'd think they were folks.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: Yep, yep. Interesting that they cut him off.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 4: To either way. Me and Joe did check. And apparently
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 4: Wendell Roach and this James Smith, that Ron Smith whoever,
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 4: still remains classified, meaning that it has not been released
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 4: in the past twenty years since Joan Mellen wrote her book,
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 4: Whatever you just did, don't do that anymore because it
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 4: throws the screen offline. Okay, I don't know what you did,
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 4: but I just.
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: Removed it from the screen because I put our beautiful
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: faces up to talk.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 4: Oh I'm done talking. Next slide too much smoother. If
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 4: I had control of everything.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: We tried that, And then we have the Warren commissioned
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: testimony of Francis Martello, who was kind of like the
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: intelligence guy, detective of the OPD New Orleans Police Department.
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: And when he went to go see Lee Harvey Oswalt,
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: he produced a number of IDs. Upon my request, he
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: removed the papers and I examined them. He had in
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: his wall a number of miscellaneous papers, cards, and identification items.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: The only ones I felt were of any significance were
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: social security card. And it goes on and on. But
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: no mention of pretending to be Cuban, pretending to be Russian.
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 4: But again, Martello interviewed him on August ninth, not anything.
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: Right, No, But I'm saying, like, this is not the same.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 4: Incident, right, it is not the same incident, correct, different date,
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 4: different circumstances.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: Right. If Martello said, you know, he was trying to
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: pretend he was Cuban or Russian, that changes things a
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: little bit.
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 4: But he doesn't say they had to bring in i
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 4: ands or customs to deal with Oswald.
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, all right, I'll let you go here.
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 4: All right. This falls back to a reasonable doubt by
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 4: Henry Hurt. We did an episode on this some whiles back.
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 4: But it's relevant because he ran into a guy named
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 4: Robert Easterling, he told him a fantastic story, folks. Now,
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 4: Robert Easterling said that he was not among the witnesses
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 4: at that Banda bar that night, so this is his
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 4: secondhand information. But Easterling claims that he first encountered Oswald
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 4: during the spring that's significant or summer of sixty three.
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 4: He's not sure the date. Easterling insisted he witnessed an
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 4: incident involving Oswald and the Habana Bar that is unrecorded
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 4: in standard accounts of Oswald's New Orleans activities. Easterland claims
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 4: he came upon a sidewalk fracas on Decatur Street near
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 4: the doorway to the Habana Bar. Several Cubans were kicking
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 4: and stamping the shit out of a young man Easterling
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 4: came to know as Oswalt. As Easterling stood watching, some
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 4: guy named Riviera not his real name, rushed out of
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 4: the bar with a broken beer bottle and forced the
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 4: men to stop beating Oswald's ass Police officers Joe arrived
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 4: about the time the scuffle ended. Eastern playing that Oswald
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 4: got up and without any comment, walked away. Easterling did
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 4: not learn what the altercation was about. Okay, so we
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 4: have the police showing up and Oswald getting up and
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 4: walking away. Now he doesn't say that he went off
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 4: with the police, but it's one can infer that if
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 4: the police show up and h somebody is bleeding on
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 4: this or you know, laying on the sidewalk outside of
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 4: a bar, chances are they're going to get arrested. Okay,
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 4: So Oswald likely got up and left with the police.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 4: And possibly went and told them that he was Russian
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 4: and gave him merchant ID and then they said, okay,
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 4: we'll just deport and then he said, I'm just kidding,
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 4: I'm really So now we get into the Ron story, right.
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 4: Ron Smith Ron was a Border Patrol inspector with the
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 4: New Orleans station in sixty two and sixty three, transferring
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 4: to Washington in April of sixty three. Now, he told
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 4: us earlier his last day was April tenth, so it
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 4: had to be before that. On seemingly uneventful day, he
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 4: received a not so unusual radio call requesting verification of
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 4: an alien the first precing of the NOPD. A police department,
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 4: same one that showed up to the band of bar,
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 4: had an individual in custody who claimed to be Cuban
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 4: or Russian. Responding to the call, Ron proceeded to the
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 4: first precinct, where he interviewed or interrogated a prisoner in
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 4: fact not sure if booked or aware of charges, named
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 4: Lee Harvey Oswald, who was claiming to be Cuban. Ron
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 4: does not recall if he was speaking Spanish or Russian.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 4: He has no recollection of his own of Oswald speaking Russian.
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 4: Ron could not give me a date, the names of
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 4: any persons at the jail, nor the specifics or even
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 4: generalities as to what Oswald said after five minutes of interrogation.
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 4: Though Oswald admitted that he was an American and Smith
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 4: took off, he does not recall discussing this event with anyone,
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 4: including co workers. However, when Oswald's picture hit the press,
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 4: he immediately recognized him and told his wife that is
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 4: the guy I interviewed. In New Orleans. Ron admitted frequent
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 4: contact with Ors Paanya, who happened to be the owner
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 4: of the Habana Bar Hainya's brother told him that Ors
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 4: was working for or was going to work for, the
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 4: fb I. He also recalls customs David Smith. Now we've
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 4: all heard the allegations that Ors was an FBI informant
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 4: for Warren de Breeze. He went public and called to
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 4: Breeze out in public in the early seventies, and Debris
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 4: denied it and didn't.
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: He didn't He threaten him too.
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but I believe it.
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 2: I believe I think so.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, next slide please, Joseph.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 2: And yeah, just to add a little point here, you
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: know it, he received a call that was not unusual, right,
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 2: so he probably received these type of calls daily or
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 2: multiple times weekly.
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 4: Right, Hey, we have this guy, we have this which
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 4: we need you to come down here and talk to him.
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we have this skafza that you know that we.
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 4: He probably took control of the custody of him and
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 4: that was that.
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: And if he's not, then like, why am I going
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 2: to waste up writing a report? Right?
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 4: That's likely why no report was written. They probably they
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 4: turned him loose into get the fuck out of here,
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 4: you know type of thing.
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And the I in S is really interesting
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 2: because it doesn't seem to me like they have a
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 2: vested interest, say like the FBI or CIA would, Right,
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 2: they're kind of just you know, they're monitoring Cubans, they're
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: monitoring Ferry they're, you know, taking these type of calls.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: It doesn't They kind of seemed to me like an
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: agency that is pretty like objective, not in any cahoots
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 2: type of thing, you know. Yeah, I don't know, all right.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 4: So here's where it gets interesting. Yes, we all know.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 4: Oswald wrote this letter to VT Lee on August of one,
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 4: nineteen sixty three, and it describes in this letter a
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 4: street frack fight, if you will, with some Cubans who
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 4: he calls worms or gusanos. Okay, Now, the actual street
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 4: fracus on Canal Street between him and Brignier and company
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 4: would not happen for another eight days. It would not
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 4: happen until August ninth. Now Oswald wrote this letter, it's
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 4: dated August first. He mailed it on the fourth. Okay,
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 4: So either Oswald has a crystal ball and he knows
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 4: that this interaction with Brigna is gonna happen, so he
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 4: goes ahead and tells VT Lee about it, or Oswald
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 4: is describing an entirely different fracas altogether that happened to
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 4: him before. Okay, Yeah, Now to further corroborate things, Joe,
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 4: you see it at the bottom. It's an FBI document.
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 4: DJ document, and it says Floyd Hepting, a port agent
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 4: with the American Radio Association on Canal Street, telephonically advised
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 4: the New Orleans office on December thirteenth, sixty three that
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 4: on that date, while riding in a Liberty Bell cab
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 4: number one zero eight, he talked to the driver regarding
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 4: the Oswald matter. He said the cab driver told him
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 4: that he was in the vicinity of the Habannah Bar
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 4: located near Canal and Decatur, approximately nine months ago. Do
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 4: the math people nine ns ago from December, it's pretty
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 4: close to April, and witnessed Oswald and several Cubans involved
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 4: in an argument which appeared to be leading to a fight.
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 4: The fracas was broke up. They even call it a
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 4: fucking fracas. The fractus was broke up by al in
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 4: quotation marks the New Orleans Police Apartment's best officer in
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 4: the area.
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: Beat officer.
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: Whatever.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 2: No, I'm just yeah, I could see it closer with it.
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 2: Let me go to the bottom here.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 4: It's the exact same docum.
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 2: It's the exact same thing.
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 4: It's just easy to read up top. That just shows
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 4: you it's from an actual doj FBI document. It's not
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 4: just something I clipped out of a fucking book, right, and.
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 2: It's not Listen, you're talking December to August, right, August, September, November, December,
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 2: four months, not nine months. That's that's a big discrepancy. Okay.
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And the fact you go in the year, the
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 4: less your memory is going to be accurate to some
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 4: random fucking happening. Right, So he's approximated mating from December fifteenth, roughly,
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 4: there was nine months ago when this happened, and he's
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 4: not too far off if he's off by a couple
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 4: of weeks, yeah, through three weeks.
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and again a pork agent, you know, not some
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: skafuza who's drinking and drunk at the Avada bar, right.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, But again, how much more corroboration do you need?
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 4: People that Oswald was in fucking New Orleans the weekend
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 4: after he got let go from Jagger's child stove, all,
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 4: which makes it a lot more palatable that he could
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 4: have been on this plane with David Ferry on April
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 4: eighth back to Dallas.
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, excellent, this is uh I mean, yeah, like you said,
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: how much more corroboration do you need? But uh I
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: had to throw this in. Of course, did General Walker
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: John T. Martin to film Lee in New Orleans. You know,
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: we we've talked about this at at length. John T. Martin,
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 2: huge fan of General Walker, goes to General Walker's house,
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 2: is inside his house, right, this is the bullet hole
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 2: right here. These are from the Shackleford slides. And then
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: he catches Lee Oswald here with Brignier and some other scafusas.
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 4: Now, the significance of this, Joe, not because this is
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 4: a totally separate incident, right, of course, The significance of
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 4: this is that fore knowledge Well no, not necessarily, well,
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 4: it kind of but as as you see in the
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 4: August first letter to VT Lee, as he's describing the
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 4: first fracas, right, it's almost the exact same scenario. He
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 4: gets in a fight with some Cubans, right, the police
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 4: show up, Oswald is quote unquote arrested. Right. The one
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 4: difference is that nobody was there to catch it on video, right,
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 4: No TV stations, no home movie buffs, no young smooth
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 4: boys with video cameras, home movie cameras.
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, jovel two.
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 4: So could the second fractice have been set up or
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 4: set up to be videoed by General Walker, who just
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 4: happens to have been shot at on April tenth by
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 4: Oswald allegedly. Right, so interesting, Now you might think, what
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 4: did General Walker have to do with New Orleans? Well
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 4: blow this up a little, Joe. I'm not going to
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 4: read the whole thing, but we have here an intelligence
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 4: report from the Louisiana State Police about General Edwin Walker,
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 4: and they were watching him. In fact, they watched him
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 4: every time that motherfucker came to New Orleans. Okay, m hm.
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 4: They watched where he went, who he talked to, who
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 4: he met with. We have here, boom, the above subject
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 4: had in Judge Leander Perez's office in the National American
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 4: Bank Building, So we have here.
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 2: Uh you skipped over of a mysterious meeting, which is interesting.
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, a mysterious meeting. Now, Leander Perez was again like
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 4: the Jim Garrison of the Blaquemines Parish right artics dick,
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 4: He under a lot of land. He was a landbearn
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 4: huge racist, but tons of money, tons of money in
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 4: land and minerals and oil and everything else. And on
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 4: November twentieth, nineteen sixty three, okay, it was just a
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 4: couple of days before the Kennedy assassination. You haven't meeting
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 4: with Leander Perez. Okay, now moving on down the line here.
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 4: Later there was also a meeting at the National Bank
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 4: of Commerce in the National Bank of Commerce Garage building.
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 4: While I was not in the meeting room proper, I
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 4: noticed several of the people that were in attendance. I
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 4: noted that especially one A Joseph Newborough was there. And
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 4: who the fuck is that? Well, I'll tell you that is.
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 4: That is guy Banishes, old private investigator partner. Okay, that's
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 4: who that is. Let's see. Mister Manning asked me to
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 4: see what are you doing, Joe.
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to help you.
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 4: You're making it smaller, making it even smaller.
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 2: Oh god, mister Manning. Okay, sorry, there you go.
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 4: Like Cavaulta, they talk about cafuses that he's meeting with
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 4: At two am, General Walker is still in the lobby
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 4: and he went upstairs at about two am on eleven
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 4: twenty one and sixty three, late night, late night party
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 4: with General Walker.
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they only imagine how that went. Yeah, use your
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 2: imagination there, listeners.
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 4: So he finally General Walker had another meeting and had
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 4: approximately ninety people there. I talked to General Walker for
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 4: quite some time, making his acquaintance, and did not leave
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 4: the hotel until about one am. But I was unable
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 4: to learn of anything of importance. There was evidently no
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 4: further activity on the General's part, and I was unable
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 4: to learn at what time the General left the city.
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 4: Right next page, on next slide, next page.
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, sir, sure, James just said leave it alone, Joe,
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to help.
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 4: So he talks about newborgh again, and then he says,
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 4: mister Newburgh was author also an expert in jiu jitsismus.
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 2: That's interesting.
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 4: Mister Newburgh was also very friendly with one Jack Martin. Now,
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 4: don't think of a second. Old Joe Newborough wasn't a
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 4: big boy, and if he knew how to roll wow,
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 4: tough customer.
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 4: Mister Newburgh was also friendly with Jack Martin. Mister Jack
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 4: Martin is the man who filed a petition with the
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 4: State Criminal or Central Committee to disqualify mister Grimellion as
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 4: a candidate for Attorney General. Blah blah blah blah blah.
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 4: Now again, folks, the Kennedy assassination hasn't happened yet, but
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 4: we have General Walker and under surveillance in New Orleans
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 4: with two not one, but two of Guy Banister's cohorts,
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 4: who was seen around Guy Banished as always in the
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 4: summer of sixty three. O Holy, Harvey Oswald, David Ferry.
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 4: These guys all know each each other. They all share
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 4: the same ideals, goals, things like that. So we're making
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 4: some connections here. Things are not out of the ordinary
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 4: or out of the realm of possibility. I should say, next,
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 4: lie Joe, all right, left side blow, That's what she said.
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 4: All right. Now, let's talk about William Duff. All right,
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 4: this is General Walker's batman, right, the.
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 2: Only official suspect in the Walker shooting official now.
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 4: An interview with William Duff on May twenty fifth, sixty four,
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 4: Duff claimed evidence of an association between Jack Ruby and
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 4: General Walker. All right. He claimed that that during the
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 4: period of December sixty two through March sixty three, while
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 4: Duff was employed by General Walker and resided in his home,
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 4: Ruby visited Excuse on the basis of about once a month,
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 4: each time in the company of two unidentified white males
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 4: arriving in a Ford car not further described. Duff claimed
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 4: identification of Ruby through photographs, having heard him addressed only
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 4: as Jack. The others were described as follows, a white
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 4: male mid thirties, five eleven weighing one for five, dark
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 4: receding hair, said to be a member of the John
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 4: Birch Society. Number two was a white male, late forties,
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 4: heavy bill, dark complexion. Duff advised the three had always
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 4: convened with Walker in the living room at the Walker residence,
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 4: and Duff at the time at no time overheard their conversations.
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 4: So we have William Duff alleging that Ruby was meeting
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 4: with General Walker. Next next page. There not next five
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 4: next page.
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 2: Sorry, my fat fingers are not singing up. Touch screens, bra.
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 4: All right over here we have a letter written by
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 4: General Edmund Walker in November of nineteen ninety one. Joe, okay,
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 4: all right, not too long before he died. What he
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 4: says here is interesting. A common assassin with a dead
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 4: president commander in chief is an ugly experience. Since nineteen
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 4: sixty three, the President went to Dallas knowing and protecting
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 4: his November assassin, Lee h Oswald from prosecution for his
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 4: April crime, the attempted assassination of former General working at
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 4: his desk in his Dallas home at nine pm tenth.
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 4: The Kennedy protection included an early morning, secret release of
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 4: the prime suspect, Lee H. Oswald from Dallas police custody
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 4: on Kennedy orders on April the eleventh. Did not live
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 4: to know what he knew or to know that he
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 4: knew his assassin, but everyone else lived to know that
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 4: he did and that his assassin could not be prosecuted
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 4: for the November crime because of his Kennedy protection from
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 4: the prosecution for his April crime. The law does not
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 4: provide for protection and prosecution at the same time. Only
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 4: by the election of a new government could the protection
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 4: be eliminated. The common assassin was dead within forty eight
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 4: hours Friday to Sunday. Edwin Walker. Now, what he's saying
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 4: here is an allegation that he says he was told
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 4: by someone that he had confidence with in the Dallas
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 4: Police Department that Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby were
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 4: arrested after his attempted assassination on April tenth and released
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 4: on orders of Bobby Kennedy or the Department of Justice
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 4: or the FBI. Next slide, Please all right. He also
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 4: wrote another letter to the Kerrville Daily Times on January nineteenth,
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 4: nineteen ninety two, to the editor, a common assassin with
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 4: the dead president commander in chief. All Right, never mind,
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 4: that's the same fucking letter I just read right next page,
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 4: not next slide of next page. They were dated different.
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 4: Goddamn I swore they were different. All right, So this
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 4: is a clip from a letter that he wrote to
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 4: someone at the HSCA in the seventies, General Walker, that is,
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 4: if authority in the hands of the Attorney General and
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 4: the Justice Department. Okay, that's Bobby Kennedy at the time,
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 4: and that's the FBI had not seen fit to free
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 4: Oswald and his associates plural in the attempted assassination of
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 4: Edwin Walker. There is no reason to doubt that President
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 4: Kennedy and Senator Robert Kennedy would be alive today. There
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 4: are bullet holes in a room of this house, my
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 4: private residence, that testify to this fact. The holes of
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 4: entry through which the bullet was deflected from an accurate
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 4: course to the whole of exit is further evidence of
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 4: expert marksmanship.
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 4: So again, General Walker in the seventies had an inkling
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 4: that Oswald was arrested with associates plural and turned loose
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 4: on the orders of Attorney General and the FBI or
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 4: the ACCA.
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 2: And of course he would have right wing contacts within
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 2: the DPD.
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 4: Of course, of course, Okay. Further corroboration that General Walker
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 4: knew Jack Ruby. On December twenty eighth, nineteen sixty six,
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 4: nine days after Jack Ruby entered his hospital, General Walker
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 4: wrote a letter to Billy James Hargas and expressed his
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 4: fear that Ruby might talk, and then Walker issued a warning.
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 4: The information was buried in the third paragraph of a
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 4: letter following a trivial discourse about a briefcase Hargus had
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 4: given him, his regrets that he could not attend a
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 4: function with Hargus and his family and his libel lawsuit.
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 4: This letter was discovered by the author and revealed here
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 4: for the first time. And this is from the book
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 4: General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy by Jeffrey Caufield.
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 4: Vote a warning. When Rubinstein leaves the hospital in a
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 4: box in parentheses, the only way he will come out
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 4: end of parentheses. There is no further block to returning
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 4: the blame on the right wing. The books and press
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 4: will gradually pick it up again. RFK must have it.
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 4: It must be done as insurance and assurance and RFK
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 4: political necessity. Walker's worry and warning that Ruby might talk
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 4: is astonishing. It is inconceivable that Walker meant anything else
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 4: in the message to Hargus other than that he would
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 4: murder Ruby before he allowed him to leave the hospital
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 4: and presumably leave Dallas for Wichita Falls for his retrial,
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 4: where Walker had no power as long as Ruby was
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 4: in Dallas. The comment suggests that Walker could block him
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 4: from talking with Ruby out of the Dallas County jail
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 4: and on his way to the change of venue for
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 4: retry on Wichita Falls, which was schedule for February of
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 4: sixty seven. Then the block on his talking was off.
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 4: Only a guilty man makes the type of remark Walker
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 4: made to Hargus, as we shall see in the next
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 4: new chapter. Blah blah blah blah blah. So you have
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 4: to also remember the interview with Jack Ruby that was
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 4: videotaped when he specifically said that he was worried in
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 4: Dallas from people, and he specifically named General Walker and
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 4: the John Birch Society. He wanted them to take him
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 4: to Washington where he would tell them everything and he
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 4: did not feel safe in Dallas because of General Walker
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 4: and the John Birch Society. So is this further proof
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 4: that maybe Ruby was meeting with Walker and that maybe
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 4: maybe Walker and Ruby were a little bit more involved
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 4: in the Kennedy assassination then they want everybody to believe.
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 4: Next slack all right, called this connecting the dots. We're
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 4: going to take a look at some of these other
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 4: scuffuzas that have been mentioned here and there, and let's
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 4: talk about Tony Nestor Escaderio Diaz for a minute.
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 2: Of course. A candidate for Diaz right on the flight
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 2: manifest yep.
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 4: Now he was an anti Castro Cuban James Richards and
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 4: Gerald Patrick. He may claimed that Escadero was involved with
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 4: the events in Daily Plaza, specifically his role being the
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 4: Dow Tech spotter. In April seventy seven, is Cadero, Rafael Chichi, Cantaro,
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 4: Rafael vila Verde, Raoul Vilaverde, Jesus Elizo, and Valentine Hernandez
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 4: were the subjects of a US Department of Justice inquiry.
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 4: In Escadero's case, no identified, no identifiable info could be sourced.
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 4: Is Cadero, a devout anti communists to fault to San
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 4: Denistas in Nicaragua. His CI case officer was Harold Feeni
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 4: Escariscaderio was killed in Nicaragua in a plane crash in
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 4: nineteen seventy nine, and he now has a statue in
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 4: Miami's Little Havana sculpted by Tony Lopez, erected in nineteen
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 4: ninety two for his bravery. All right, then we move
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 4: over to Harmoneo diaz Garcia, who would later become a
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 4: bodyguard for Santos Trafficante into wrestling. Enough, diaz Garcia moved
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 4: to the United States in July sixty three, where he
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 4: worked for Tony Verono, who will get to in a second.
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 4: Now you might say, okay, well, this diaz Garcia is
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 4: disqualified from being on an April plane ride because he
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 4: moved to the United States in July of sixty three.
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 4: But that's not to say he wasn't here illegally before
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 4: that or visited before that. He just may have made
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 4: the official move in July of sixty three, so you
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 4: can't really disqualify him. Some researchers believe that diaz Garcia
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 4: was one of the gunmen who killed John F. Kennedy
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 4: on November twenty second, sixty three. Now in December sixty three,
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 4: Diaz Garcia was involved in an unsuccessful attempt to assassinate
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 4: Fidel Castro. He was also involved in providing weapons to
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 4: anti Castro groups. As Garcia was killed on a mission
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 4: at Monte Barreo Barreto in the Miramar district of Kuble
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 4: on twenty nine May sixty six. Tony Seusta was captured.
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 4: During the mission. Seusta, who always vowed that Castro would
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 4: never take him alive, attempted suicide by setting off a
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 4: grenade that only ended up blinding him and blowing off
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 4: his right hand, so has to spend a long time
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 4: in the hospital as a result of his serious injuries
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 4: and hermione O dis Garcia is buried in Columbia, Columbus, Havana.
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 2: Man that to ignite a grenade and only have it
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 2: to blow off your hand and blind you? Oof, you
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 2: have some shit? Look can you not set off a grenade?
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 5: Live?
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah? And kys you know ooof but uh I think
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 2: he was later released right at some point, yep, yep.
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 4: Next time, all right, Tony Sewsta, speaking of okay, uh.
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 4: He helped to establish two anti caster groups, one known
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 4: as Alpha sixty six, who you may have heard of,
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 4: and Commando's Liberty, who you may not have heard of.
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 4: He also worked closely with Eddie Biyo and later involved
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 4: in Operation Tilt. Sewesta was buddies with Tom Duncan of
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 4: Life magazine.
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 4: Sewesta was captured during a mission and like we said,
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 4: I remember his team Diaz was killed during the raid
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 4: and he blew off his hand and got blinded. Blah
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 4: blah blah. In seventy eight, President Jimmy Cotta arranged for
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 4: a group of imprisoned exiles we released, and this included Seesta.
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 4: Just before leaving Cuba, suet To ask to see General
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 4: Fabian Escalante, who was the head of the Cuban G
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 4: two spy agency. So west To told Escalante that he
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 4: involved in the assassination of JFK. He also named Hermioneo
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 4: Dias Garcia and Alatio Elattio del Vallier as being involved
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 4: as well. Okay, why is that significant? Well, Elatio de Valier,
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 4: let's see who this mother effort was. Blow him up
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 4: a little bit there. Interesting story about this guy, all right,
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 4: born in Cuba. Supporter of Battista, served as congressman in Havana,
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 4: went into exile just before Fidel gained power. De Vallier
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 4: moved to Florida, where he was active in the Free
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 4: Cuba Committee, an organization formed by none other than Sergio
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 4: Arcascious Smith, later of New Orleans fame, and eventually moved
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 4: to Dallas. He also worked for Santo Trafficante.
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 2: Oh Wow, with Diez Garcia and with.
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 4: His friend David Ferry. He was involved in fire bombing
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 4: sugar fields in Cuba.
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they did definitely try to uh, you know, screw
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 2: screw with their.
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 4: Crops, right, Yeah, now, ALTI your Dvalier was murdered on
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 4: February twenty second, nineteen sixty seven. Police reported that de
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 4: Valier been tortured, shot in the heart at point blank range,
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 4: and his skull split open with an axe. Folks. Wow,
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 4: his murder has never been solved, and he died only
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 4: four hours after his buddy David Ferry on the same
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 4: exact fucking day.
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 2: Wow, that seems personal to me. You may as well
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 2: just shoot him at point blank range. He's done at
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 2: the heart, but you're gonna split his skull open after woof.
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 4: He died. Yeah, he died only hours after his friend
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 4: David Ferry. Diego Gonzalez Tendetta, a close friend later named Devalier,
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 4: was murdered because of his involvement in the assassination of
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 4: President Kennedy. A senior member of the Cuban secret service,
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 4: Escalante agreed in sixty two a lot of Ye Duvalier
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 4: tried to infiltrate Cuba with a commando group of twenty
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 4: two men and their boat had an English key a
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 4: little island in the middle of sixty two. Of course
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 4: we knew this. I tell you about this because one
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 4: of our agents was one of the people helping to
• 2:16:32
  Speaker 4: bring this group to Cuba, with a man of very
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 4: little education. They talked English on many occasions on this
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 4: little island with a Latier. De Valier told this person
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 4: on many occasions that Kennedy must be killed to solve
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 4: the Cuban problem. And after that we had another piece
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 4: of information on a Latier Devalier. This was offered to
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 4: us by Tony Suesta, that freakin' rat bastard. He told
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 4: us that a lot of Devalier was one of the
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 4: people involved in the assassination plot against Kennedy. In nineteen
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 4: seventy five, Harry Dean claimed he had been an undercover
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 4: agent for the FBI, and in sixty two he infiltrated
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 4: the John Birch Society. He later reported that General Edwin
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 4: Walker and John Russelott had hired two gunmen, one named
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 4: the Ladier Duvalier and one named Lauren fucking Hall that
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 4: killed President F. Kennedy. Whoever. Dean was unable to provide
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 4: any evidence to back up this claim.
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 2: James had a funny comment or Jack did he looks
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 2: like Marco Rubio? Kind of does?
• 2:17:42
  Speaker 4: He kind of does?
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 2: But man, so Jimmy Carter got.
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 4: Swesda too.
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but sixty six to seventy eight or something? Is that?
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 4: Well?
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, man, twelve years spent there?
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, try to kill cast Troe?
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 2: Well right with this hand blown off and blind?
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's worse than death.
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 2: That it is. I think it was unsuccessful in his
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 2: purpose for sure, And I think that is the last
• 2:18:22
  Speaker 2: slide we have. So what are we to make of
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 2: all of this? Rob? What are we to make of
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 2: Oswalt's Walker week?
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 4: Look, we were trying to prove that it was possible
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 4: that Oswald went back to New Orleans after being let
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 4: go from Jagger Child stoveall in early April and to
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 4: possibly be on this plane with David Ferry, and they
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 4: came back to Dallas on April eighth, came over with
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 4: some plan or met with Walker and came up with
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 4: some plan. We don't know which. But if we were
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 4: to believe Walker, and I don't know that we can, yeah,
• 2:19:23
  Speaker 4: then it was not Then it was a legitimate assassination attempt.
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 4: And whoever the fuck Lambert was and whoever the fuck
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 4: Diaz was was with David Ferry and Lee Oswald and
• 2:19:42
  Speaker 4: they tried to take out Walker for whatever reason. I mean,
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 4: I think we painted a pretty good corroborating picture that
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 4: Oswald was back in New Orleans. We have testimony from
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 4: customs agents, I N s agents, police officers, eyewitnesses, drunks.
• 2:20:05
  Speaker 2: Cab drivers, FBI informans.
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 4: I mean, it makes sense when you look at his
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 4: first letter, because that doesn't make sense when he's talking
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 4: about the other fragts, right, but it makes Oswald gets fired,
• 2:20:25
  Speaker 4: he gets the fire with Marina. He's like, screw it,
• 2:20:27
  Speaker 4: I'm going back to New Orleans. I'm gonna trying to
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 4: find a plast to stay and find another job. He
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 4: ends up getting tangled up with Ferry again. They come
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 4: up with some half cock fucking idea to take out
• 2:20:37
  Speaker 4: a Walker. Fairy is like, shit, I got a plane,
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 4: let's go. They find two scuffooses to go with them.
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 4: Whether I highly doubt it's clay Shaw, although it might
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 4: be who the hell knows, I don't know who, diz
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 4: as Lambert could have been an alias for somebody else,
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 4: who knows who, Gordon Novelle Thomas Beckham, who knows. I'm
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 4: out there.
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 2: But yeah, and and and as we were, you know,
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 2: kind of debating this back and forth, we we discussed
• 2:21:12
  Speaker 2: why would David Ferry, who was notoriously right wing and
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 2: anti Cuban. Possibly he was anti Castro, he was, I'm
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 2: sorry anti Castro. Yes, he was for the you know,
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 2: the yes, why would he want to do anything to Walker? Now,
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 2: whether it was a stage event or not, you know,
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 2: who the hell knows? Uh maybe Fairy and co. We're
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 2: not you know, Walker was notoriously uh unwilling to support
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 2: the Cuban cause financially.
• 2:21:59
  Speaker 4: Right, not for lack of trying. You have people like
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 4: Heming Hall, Vidal Santiago, to name a few that we
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 4: know of for sure that went to see Walker to
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 4: ask him for money and he never did give it up. Right, So,
• 2:22:16
  Speaker 4: and these people I know, I know him definitely met
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 4: with him him in Hall before the assassination attempt. Yeah,
• 2:22:26
  Speaker 4: so was it because Walker was a fraud, Like he
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 4: was one of these all tat guys. But when it
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 4: comes down to like really helping you out with some
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 4: funding or something, it was a fuck off kind of
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 4: thing or maybe hit me up next time you're in town.
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 4: You know, maybe I'll have the funds then, right.
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 2: Type, and you never know, like the internal it's really
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 2: hard to discern the internal beefs that these type of
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 2: people have. Just look at Jack Martin and David Ferry.
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 2: Dudes fucking hated each other. Okay, right, were they in
• 2:23:08
  Speaker 2: the same side?
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 4: But like said at the beginning of this tiny that's
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 4: a problem because if it wasn't Oswald on the plane
• 2:23:22
  Speaker 4: using the highdel id, how the fuck does David Ferry
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 4: or whoever is impersonating Oswald know about this other identity
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 4: that Oswald has created for himself a month or two
• 2:23:38
  Speaker 4: ago and happened to order the rifle and the pistol
• 2:23:41
  Speaker 4: under this name. I mean, I don't know, we know
• 2:23:51
  Speaker 4: that Oswald knew Fairy. We don't know if anybody impersonating
• 2:23:57
  Speaker 4: Oswald new Fairy. And did they try to fool Fairy?
• 2:24:04
  Speaker 4: I mean, Fairy would have known that this person's not Oswald.
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 4: I don't know's it's a giant conundrum and it's all
• 2:24:11
  Speaker 4: the problem.
• 2:24:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're not saying we have the answers. We're
• 2:24:15
  Speaker 2: just saying, we're just saying that the Texas Employment Commission
• 2:24:20
  Speaker 2: records are fucked. Yeah, does not show that Lee was
• 2:24:25
  Speaker 2: there in person on the eighth, although in theory, I
• 2:24:29
  Speaker 2: guess he could have made it there if he got
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 2: right off the plane and went there, But that's not
• 2:24:35
  Speaker 2: what the records read. The records read he was there
• 2:24:38
  Speaker 2: on the twelfth, not the eighth. So then why because
• 2:24:44
  Speaker 2: you would think if they had availability to this manifest
• 2:24:51
  Speaker 2: and and some of this evidence, right, and say Oswald
• 2:24:55
  Speaker 2: was arrested on the eleventh, the day after the Walker shooting,
• 2:24:59
  Speaker 2: it helps, you know, show Oswald as a loan nut,
• 2:25:05
  Speaker 2: but it also doesn't show him as a loan nut, right,
• 2:25:09
  Speaker 2: as a nut with friends type of thing, do you
• 2:25:15
  Speaker 2: know what I mean?
• 2:25:16
  Speaker 4: And he says someone originally created the high Dell cover idea.
• 2:25:19
  Speaker 4: How do we know Oswald created it? There's no proof
• 2:25:21
  Speaker 4: of that. Well, somebody did. It ended up in his wallet,
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 4: or a wallet he called himself Alec. We know that
• 2:25:33
  Speaker 4: in Russia. I mean I don't know. I mean, because
• 2:25:41
  Speaker 4: now you're getting into a very conspiratorial, very big, still
• 2:25:45
  Speaker 4: much bigger elaborate conspiracy than is generally accepted or believable
• 2:25:54
  Speaker 4: when you have Okay, well, you know multiple people are
• 2:25:56
  Speaker 4: involved in creating this and setting this guy up, creating
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 4: fake id's, ordering rifles in his name, planting rifles in
• 2:26:05
  Speaker 4: his name, picking things up from his po box, and
• 2:26:12
  Speaker 4: you know, somehow getting these IDs in his wallet. I mean,
• 2:26:15
  Speaker 4: there's Ockham's razor will tell you the guy was working
• 2:26:21
  Speaker 4: at a photographic place with a fucking professional con man
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 4: who uses an alias. I mean, chances are pretty good
• 2:26:33
  Speaker 4: they're the ones that made the fake IDs. And we
• 2:26:37
  Speaker 4: have all those other corroborative evidence that Oswald was in
• 2:26:41
  Speaker 4: New Orleans in early April and could have definitely been
• 2:26:47
  Speaker 4: on this fucking plane. And it's not just one thing,
• 2:26:52
  Speaker 4: it's not just one piece of evidence. It's not just
• 2:26:55
  Speaker 4: one thing we have to mess with. The Tec and
• 2:27:00
  Speaker 4: them lying about the date that he came in there,
• 2:27:04
  Speaker 4: there's all this obfuscation of his last when his actual
• 2:27:08
  Speaker 4: last day of work was why he was let go,
• 2:27:11
  Speaker 4: whether he was fired, laid off, or he quit. You know,
• 2:27:14
  Speaker 4: all this stuff is just it's it's piled up. Uh. Oh,
• 2:27:19
  Speaker 4: what are we got here?
• 2:27:23
  Speaker 2: Oh? GP, I do what up? Thank you for becoming
• 2:27:29
  Speaker 2: a member?
• 2:27:30
  Speaker 4: Yes, thank you. I believe that's will if if I
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 4: remember correctly.
• 2:27:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. Turrent Horse said I'm gonna have
• 2:27:40
  Speaker 2: to watch this back again like four times. Yeah. I mean,
• 2:27:45
  Speaker 2: it's it's a lot a lot of information we're throwing
• 2:27:49
  Speaker 2: out there. But we didn't, you know, just come up
• 2:27:53
  Speaker 2: with it out of our ass, you know what I mean.
• 2:27:55
  Speaker 2: We kind of stumbled on it by accident, if you will,
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 2: and then kind of digged in deep to it.
• 2:28:05
  Speaker 4: I think Joe, of all the instances of somebody impersonating
• 2:28:08
  Speaker 4: Lee Harvey Oswald, it didn't happen in New Orleans, that
• 2:28:14
  Speaker 4: there was more of a Dallas thing.
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd agree with that. Yeah.
• 2:28:21
  Speaker 4: Now, if you want to get deep tiny and start
• 2:28:24
  Speaker 4: going into the John Armstrong thing when Lee's a teenager,
• 2:28:27
  Speaker 4: then maybe somebody was impersonating him and as a teenager,
• 2:28:32
  Speaker 4: you know, working in two Jags when he's supposed to
• 2:28:35
  Speaker 4: be in Marine Corps. Whatever bullshit that is. I don't know.
• 2:28:42
  Speaker 4: I'm just saying to say, to go that route. There's
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 4: a whole lot more people involve, more conspiracy than just
• 2:28:53
  Speaker 4: the Okham's razor explanation of the things that logically we
• 2:28:58
  Speaker 4: can prove. You know, hey, he was working the Jaggers
• 2:29:03
  Speaker 4: child stoveall with a diabolical con man that was on
• 2:29:08
  Speaker 4: the FBI's most wanted list who knew all about fake
• 2:29:12
  Speaker 4: fake names and aliases. It was on Oswald's library card,
• 2:29:19
  Speaker 4: you know. And oh, by the way, the original address
• 2:29:23
  Speaker 4: did I think Oswald gave Jaggers child stoveall? That was
• 2:29:27
  Speaker 4: George de Morrin Shield's.
• 2:29:29
  Speaker 2: Wife's stepson, Gary Taylor or his step Demorris shield stepson. Yeah,
• 2:29:36
  Speaker 2: Gary Gary Taylor. Yeah, we went over that, I remember.
• 2:29:39
  Speaker 4: So, yeah, I mean, craziness at every turn.
• 2:29:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as as with almost everything else within this case.
• 2:29:47
  Speaker 2: But I think we've presented a pretty solid case that
• 2:29:52
  Speaker 2: there is a good chance and we're not saying we
• 2:29:55
  Speaker 2: know what was going on, you know, exactly, but there's
• 2:30:00
  Speaker 2: some skipfoozery happening here. There's some fuckery, and I think
• 2:30:05
  Speaker 2: we've provided quite a few evidence and evidence of that
• 2:30:14
  Speaker 2: for sure, So maybe something to continue to look into
• 2:30:18
  Speaker 2: for sure.
• 2:30:21
  Speaker 4: Now, this is the kind of fucking episode. This is
• 2:30:23
  Speaker 4: the kind of broadcast, This is the kind of presentation.
• 2:30:27
  Speaker 4: This should be fucking happening at Lancer every fucking year
• 2:30:31
  Speaker 4: by every fucking body.
• 2:30:34
  Speaker 2: New research, not recycled ideas.
• 2:30:39
  Speaker 4: Right, That is how you do a general Walker episode.
• 2:30:44
  Speaker 4: Scott read.
• 2:30:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Tony says, I applaud Joe's dedication to TLG
• 2:30:54
  Speaker 2: podcasts and our dedicated crew willing to fly during the
• 2:30:57
  Speaker 2: craziest week of travel in America. My alarm is set
• 2:31:01
  Speaker 2: for four thirty am to get on my six am
• 2:31:05
  Speaker 2: flight to Dallas.
• 2:31:09
  Speaker 4: N oye oye give me yeah, and.
• 2:31:15
  Speaker 2: Let's just see one more.
• 2:31:20
  Speaker 4: We got Andy here. Love this episode. This circle back
• 2:31:26
  Speaker 4: to much of the original New Orleans thought process and
• 2:31:28
  Speaker 4: tit a lot of different stories together. Thank you, we
• 2:31:31
  Speaker 4: thought appreciate it.
• 2:31:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's just like a human reaction. You're
• 2:31:38
  Speaker 2: get in a fight, you get fired from your job
• 2:31:41
  Speaker 2: which you've had or laid off whatever, You're get in
• 2:31:45
  Speaker 2: a fight where you're gonna go You're gonna go home.
• 2:31:48
  Speaker 2: You know, Oswalton Marina frequently separated. We have Ruth Payne
• 2:31:55
  Speaker 2: on the what was it the ninth, the Monday saying
• 2:32:00
  Speaker 2: I went to visit Marina Lee was nowhere to be found.
• 2:32:04
  Speaker 4: Maybe it was the eighth, It was the eighth, It
• 2:32:08
  Speaker 4: was the eighth.
• 2:32:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You have Kirk Coleman describing at least three suspects
• 2:32:16
  Speaker 2: in the Walker shooting, the only really, I mean as
• 2:32:20
  Speaker 2: a fourteen year old kid, but really the only person
• 2:32:23
  Speaker 2: that had any visual eyewitness to the shooting. There's something
• 2:32:32
  Speaker 2: going on. I don't know what it is. I don't
• 2:32:34
  Speaker 2: know why they would try to do it other try
• 2:32:39
  Speaker 2: to hide that, other than the fact that they wanted
• 2:32:42
  Speaker 2: to really portray Oswald as a loan not not with
• 2:32:46
  Speaker 2: other conspirators who probably had connections to intelligence services, right.
• 2:32:56
  Speaker 7: Or the FBI, or the military, or the mafia. Yeah,
• 2:33:04
  Speaker 7: you know, Orpidel, castro at of.
• 2:33:06
  Speaker 4: A lot of things that all these people could be
• 2:33:08
  Speaker 4: tied to that perhaps they didn't want them tied to.
• 2:33:12
  Speaker 4: I mean, he's bad enough on his own, you know, right,
• 2:33:16
  Speaker 4: But Joe, let's wrap it up before we get too
• 2:33:18
  Speaker 4: long here.
• 2:33:19
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Zandar. I will definitely need it tomorrow morning,
• 2:33:22
  Speaker 2: hopefully I make the flight, which is fifty to fifty
• 2:33:25
  Speaker 2: at this point.
• 2:33:27
  Speaker 4: Yes, we still do not have my Dean Andrews music,
• 2:33:32
  Speaker 4: So yeah, Eric, all right, I have a Grab the
• 2:33:39
  Speaker 4: damn Dog, have treats to lure her.
• 2:33:51
  Speaker 8: Thank you, folks for hanging out with us. We hope
• 2:33:53
  Speaker 8: you enjoyed your show. We always enjoyed doing it. Like
• 2:33:57
  Speaker 8: I said, we've had this one planned for a while.
• 2:34:00
  Speaker 8: We've been doing real research.
• 2:34:01
  Speaker 4: On it for a month. This is how you fucking
• 2:34:04
  Speaker 4: do it. We'd have been the stars of the show.
• 2:34:09
  Speaker 4: Its fucking answer.
• 2:34:10
  Speaker 2: But this is how we roll.
• 2:34:13
  Speaker 8: Right here, we're free from the comfort of your own car,
• 2:34:18
  Speaker 8: living room, kitchen, wherever the fuck you are watching us
• 2:34:21
  Speaker 8: listening to us. Yeah, we do it every week, twice
• 2:34:27
  Speaker 8: a week, banger after banger after banger.
• 2:34:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, that is a week three of our independent research month.
• 2:34:35
  Speaker 4: I will be.
• 2:34:39
  Speaker 2: Recruiting a guest for next week and then we will finish.
• 2:34:43
  Speaker 2: I believe it's December fifth on UH with Larry Hancock
• 2:34:48
  Speaker 2: and David Boiling and finally finally Grab the damn Dog.
• 2:34:57
  Speaker 4: Ruby. Why folks has it for us? I'm Rob Clark,
• 2:35:05
  Speaker 4: He's Joe Borelli and we are the Lone Gumbing Podcast
• 2:35:09
  Speaker 4: and we are efing out love you guys. He assume, like, well, not,
• 2:35:21
  Speaker 4: hmm