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ep12 Robin Cisek isn't playing · Almost Famous Enough

• 0:24
  Robin Cisek isn't playing.
• 0:26
  In this episode, I make use of the phrase double entendre for maybe the first time in a decade at least, and I decided I should mark this location by continuing on the double take kind of playfulness with words and call the episode.
• 0:41
  Robin Cisek isn't playing.
• 0:43
  Why?
• 0:44
  Well, because we recorded together only a few days after the release of her single.
• 0:49
  Play dirty and it felt more appropriate than expounding on the word dirty, right?
• 0:54
  All things considered, but also because she literally isn't playing.
• 1:00
  I.
• 1:00
  She isn't testing the waters of a music career or seeing how far she can take it while simultaneously working on her backup plan, there were air quotes around backup plan.
• 1:11
  She ain't messing around when she learns how to be her own agent, her own producer, her own manager, her own art director.
• 1:19
  Now in the early stages of this podcast growth, I fully, completely expect the majority of my audience to be people within arms length of the circles.
• 1:28
  I have passed through and I have been in, in particular in recent memory, and this audience segment likely shares similar knowledge and experience of music industry and artists with me.
• 1:40
  So it's safe to say this is an introduction.
• 1:44
  This is someone who has not been on your radar or sits outside your Spotify algorithm, and this is okay.
• 1:53
  Actually, it's great.
• 1:55
  Robin Cisek is a Metis pop artist building a career out of melodic electoral pop and taking the reins of her music through songwriting and production on her first single play dirty from an upcoming full length album releasing late May, 2025.
• 2:10
  Robin has garnered attention nationally via high placements on CBC's, Searchlight competition, multiple charting singles and increased performance credits at festivals and for successful touring acts in Canada.
• 2:22
  My name is Glen Erickson.
• 2:24
  This is Almost Famous Enough.
• 2:26
  Thanks for spending your time with us.
• 2:28
  This is Robin Cisek.
• 2:44
  Glen Erickson: perfect.
• 2:45
  Glen Erickson: So, I mean, welcome to the podcast Robin.
• 2:47
  Glen Erickson: Uh, appreciate you being here.
• 2:49
  Glen Erickson: I know you are probably doing, uh, a fair number of things right now as you've, just started into the cycle, so to speak, of, new music and anticipating an upcoming release.
• 3:01
  Glen Erickson: So you just released your new single, like last week on like Friday, I think, called Play Dirty.
• 3:07
  Glen Erickson: So, and that's part of anticipating an album release.
• 3:10
  Glen Erickson: So how long have you, like, so you've got a, a PR team, now you got one of the best PR teams, so congratulations on that.
• 3:17
  Glen Erickson: So
• 3:18
  Robin Cisek: work with them.
• 3:19
  Glen Erickson: yeah, they're great publicists.
• 3:20
  Glen Erickson: So when, uh, how long have you been into the cycle now?
• 3:24
  Glen Erickson: Like, so how long did they start?
• 3:26
  Glen Erickson: Getting you into doing press and doing interviews, how long has that
• 3:29
  Robin Cisek: Yeah.
• 3:29
  Glen Erickson: preceded the single?
• 3:31
  Robin Cisek: um, when I released my last album in 2021, I reached out to them and their roster was full.
• 3:36
  Robin Cisek: So I've been kind of trying to connect with them for a while now.
• 3:39
  Robin Cisek: So I've, I'm very privileged to get the opportunity to work with them, and I'm very excited for what they're doing for me, for my project this time around.
• 3:46
  Robin Cisek: Um, so I've
• 3:47
  Glen Erickson: That's great.
• 3:48
  Robin Cisek: uh, on this album for at least a year and a half because I'm doing my own production on a lot of it.
• 3:53
  Robin Cisek: Um, so I've been working with this, uh, production team or the, uh, publicist rather.
• 3:58
  Robin Cisek: Uh, I've been working with them since I had, I think my first couple songs done.
• 4:02
  Robin Cisek: Um, so I feel very lucky working with them.
• 4:04
  Glen Erickson: That's great.
• 4:05
  Glen Erickson: okay, so what I want to do is, we, we, I want to talk with you about.
• 4:09
  Glen Erickson: The new music and sort of where you're at right now in your career and where you feel like it's heading.
• 4:14
  Glen Erickson: Because I, from everything I can see and I read, it's clearly a pretty big transition point for you, which I think is awesome.
• 4:20
  Glen Erickson: So I love to set the groundwork.
• 4:22
  Glen Erickson: I love to go backwards and so, not like the American Idol, like pre-story that they always love to do necessarily, but at least get a sense of like when, you know, it became the, the dream, the not the dream, when the dream sort of became the actual pursuit and, and stuff like that.
• 4:43
  Glen Erickson: So, when did you really get started at this?
• 4:46
  Glen Erickson: Because I, I mean, I found a 9-year-old YouTube video of you covering Alabama shakes, which by the way is an incredibly ambitious song to, to undertake.
• 4:58
  Glen Erickson: And you were only.
• 4:58
  Glen Erickson: 18, 19 at that time, probably.
• 5:02
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 5:02
  Glen Erickson: I mean that's terribly ambitious.
• 5:04
  Glen Erickson: So kudos, I'm always extremely admirable of, of people who are ambitious and just go for it.
• 5:10
  Glen Erickson: And
• 5:10
  Robin Cisek: you.
• 5:10
  Glen Erickson: and when and when I saw that, I was like, oh damn, that's like an ambitious song.
• 5:14
  Glen Erickson: So I had to take that in.
• 5:15
  Glen Erickson: Even ambitious for your band, like to play, that song.
• 5:18
  Glen Erickson: anyhow.
• 5:19
  Glen Erickson: That's fantastic.
• 5:19
  Glen Erickson: So it goes back a long way.
• 5:21
  Glen Erickson: So if you could just paint a bit of the journey for me of when sort of the interest and the activities started to turn into the thing that I think is common for most people, which is I'm gonna actually like show people that I'm interested in doing this, and then you start getting validation and feedback and that kind of propels you forward.
• 5:39
  Glen Erickson: So when did that start to happen in your life?
• 5:41
  Robin Cisek: I have a little
• 5:42
  Glen Erickson: I.
• 5:42
  Robin Cisek: an interesting story of how I got into music.
• 5:45
  Robin Cisek: Um, so I was actually an athlete for a long time, so I was a hockey player,
• 5:49
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 5:49
  Robin Cisek: basketball, kind of anything I could get my hands on for as far as sports go.
• 5:54
  Robin Cisek: And I was always really interested in visual arts as well.
• 5:57
  Robin Cisek: Um, when I went into high school, I was actually diagnosed with a genetic condition called thoracic outlet syndrome.
• 6:02
  Robin Cisek: Um, so when I got that diagnosis, I was told that I had to quit a lot of my sports because it was putting my life at risk.
• 6:10
  Robin Cisek: Um, so if I took a big
• 6:11
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 6:11
  Robin Cisek: it would've been pretty detrimental to my health.
• 6:14
  Robin Cisek: Um, so I ended up getting a pretty major life-changing surgery to correct the genetic condition, and I still kind of have like bad days on and off where I have a lot of like muscle imbalances and stuff like that.
• 6:25
  Robin Cisek: But, um, it kind of
• 6:26
  Glen Erickson: Can I, can I ask you to explain that?
• 6:28
  Glen Erickson: Can I ask you to explain that condition a little bit more?
• 6:31
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 6:31
  Robin Cisek: uh, before I was born, I actually have vertebrae that are extended further than average in my spine.
• 6:38
  Robin Cisek: Um, so when that happens, it fuses onto other bones and can tangle a lot of
• 6:42
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 6:43
  Robin Cisek: and arteries.
• 6:44
  Robin Cisek: So it caused a lot of migraines and, um, it, it put my arteries and my nerves at risk.
• 6:49
  Robin Cisek: So, had I taken a hit in hockey, it would be a pretty bad thing'cause it could.
• 6:54
  Robin Cisek: Possibly cut off blood flow and cause um, like blood clots and stuff like that too.
• 7:00
  Robin Cisek: so when I was in high school, I had to get that surgery to kind of correct that.
• 7:05
  Robin Cisek: And then, uh, I had to quit a lot of my sports and it ended up pushing me to take a little more risks with the option classes that I was taking.
• 7:13
  Robin Cisek: Um, because the school I was going to deemed me as a little bit of a risk, so they wouldn't let me take like
• 7:18
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 7:19
  Robin Cisek: mechanics, anything that would be super physical.
• 7:22
  Robin Cisek: So I ended up saying, okay, well I like music and I can sing a little bit, so maybe I'll take like the, the music classes that they're offering.
• 7:29
  Robin Cisek: And
• 7:30
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 7:30
  Robin Cisek: I was going through such a traumatic time just dealing with my health issues and this big surgery I had coming up, I ended up putting a lot of my emotions and kind of dealing with what I was going through by being in music.
• 7:44
  Robin Cisek: Um, so since then and since like putting my all into music and, and getting into writing and performing, I just found that it was a great outlet for me and it's.
• 7:52
  Robin Cisek: Just history ever since.
• 7:54
  Robin Cisek: And I've just loved to be involved in the music industry, um, both with the business side and with the performance side.
• 8:00
  Robin Cisek: And, um, songwriting has always been a great, a great space for me to reflect.
• 8:05
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 8:05
  Glen Erickson: I mean, that's really interesting.
• 8:06
  Glen Erickson: So the, the, well, if I have a couple of questions.
• 8:09
  Glen Erickson: So this condition, I'm curious about two things.
• 8:12
  Glen Erickson: One, is this like a genetic condition that can, that those things can keep happening?
• 8:17
  Glen Erickson: Or was the surgery to sort of prevent it from being progressive?
• 8:21
  Glen Erickson: Or did it all happen at once?
• 8:23
  Glen Erickson: Like when you were young and everything was forming and then that just leaves you in the condition you are Or is it an ongoing thing?
• 8:30
  Robin Cisek: the way that people describe the condition is it kind of happens like before you're born.
• 8:34
  Robin Cisek: So it's just like a genetic deformity that, so a lot of my relatives and stuff actually have extra ribs, um, which is kind of like the same vein of, of things.
• 8:44
  Robin Cisek: Uh, but when I was really young, I used to have a lot of nerve pain and constant migraines and like, almost like seizures sort of, that were caused by my nerves and my arteries being all tangled up.
• 8:55
  Robin Cisek: Um, so when I got the surgery, they removed that so.
• 8:58
  Robin Cisek: Not to be too graphic for your listeners, but they had to like cut the bone, reroute a lot of my arteries and nerves and stuff like that.
• 9:05
  Robin Cisek: So
• 9:05
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 9:06
  Robin Cisek: I'm kind of still dealing with like muscle imbalance and I do have like rough migraine days just because they had to remove a whole muscle out of my neck as well to kind of sort
• 9:16
  Glen Erickson: Wow.
• 9:16
  Robin Cisek: Um, so I do have like rough days that I have trouble lifting equipment or that sort of thing.
• 9:22
  Robin Cisek: But again, like my music writing is just my place.
• 9:25
  Robin Cisek: I feel like when I'm having a bad day, it's something
• 9:28
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 9:28
  Robin Cisek: look forward to and something to get myself out of bed when I'm having a rough day.
• 9:32
  Robin Cisek: Just go and like work on some music, so.
• 9:34
  Glen Erickson: Well, I mean that, uh, that's maybe plays into the other half of the thing that I think of when you're describing that condition, particularly to the age that you encounter that.
• 9:44
  Glen Erickson: So you encounter that in high school.
• 9:45
  Robin Cisek: Yeah,
• 9:46
  Glen Erickson: Where they're forcing you to make those changes, which is an incredibly vulnerable time of life to be in, to have anything that makes you feel like the other.
• 9:54
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 9:55
  Glen Erickson: So was that, was that playing into a little of, you know, diving into music and having a place to escape and to outlet what was going on?
• 10:04
  Robin Cisek: So in preparation for this big surgery, I knew that I would have to take quite a few weeks out of school.
• 10:11
  Robin Cisek: Um, so I ended up doing summer school a lot of the time, so I would take courses ahead of time so that I would have extra time when I had to deal with this.
• 10:17
  Robin Cisek: So this condition and this surgery like rerouted a lot of my life so well in, during
• 10:22
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 10:23
  Robin Cisek: taking classes and then, well, during the healing process was missing quite a few weeks of school as well.
• 10:29
  Robin Cisek: And I remember coming back to that music program.
• 10:32
  Robin Cisek: Um, everybody had already banded up, so everybody had found their people that
• 10:36
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 10:37
  Robin Cisek: with.
• 10:37
  Robin Cisek: but that actually ended up.
• 10:39
  Robin Cisek: Uh, becoming, like growing my interest in running sound and also I think led to me taking on production on this next project I'm releasing.
• 10:48
  Robin Cisek: Um, so everybody was already part of a band, but I remember that there was one guy that stayed back with me a couple days.
• 10:56
  Robin Cisek: He was an another student, and, uh, he actually taught me how to run the soundboard.
• 11:00
  Robin Cisek: So it was like a big step in my career and reflecting back on it, I'm super grateful for the time that that guy showed for me.
• 11:07
  Robin Cisek: And he's married with kids now, which is super cool.
• 11:10
  Robin Cisek: But the other day he sent me a text saying, Hey, I just saw how good you're doing.
• 11:13
  Robin Cisek: Like, congrats.
• 11:14
  Robin Cisek: And it
• 11:14
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 11:15
  Robin Cisek: so much to me and like for the future of my career.
• 11:18
  Glen Erickson: where did that go outta that point then?
• 11:19
  Glen Erickson: So, I mean, the high school, I mean, even the way you're describing it, like that's one version in life where a lot of people do discover the talent, but then they're also given some of, You know, for lack of a better term, the actual equipment and the metaphorical equipment around them to pursue it, right?
• 11:34
  Glen Erickson: You might have, uh, depending on where you're at, certain availability of instruments or people to be creative with, collaborate, bounce off.
• 11:42
  Glen Erickson: You can have teachers and mentors and then you leave that.
• 11:45
  Glen Erickson: and then what do you do?
• 11:46
  Glen Erickson: You know, do you pursue it on your own?
• 11:48
  Glen Erickson: Or how does that work?
• 11:48
  Glen Erickson: So where, where did that progress out of, out of high school?
• 11:52
  Robin Cisek: I actually ended up working with a lot of bands out of high school.
• 11:55
  Robin Cisek: I just felt like when during the program, there was a lot of opportunity to work with other people.
• 12:00
  Robin Cisek: Um, but I feel like my experience with having to work solo and even like learning some sound, um, made me confident enough to pursue a solo career in music.
• 12:10
  Robin Cisek: Um, so I love, love, love working with bands, but there is kind of a give and take when you're working with other people.
• 12:17
  Robin Cisek: you kind of have to find the time, you have to find the commitment level, and you have to find people that are wanting to create the same music as you.
• 12:23
  Robin Cisek: And that's something I didn't really feel like I found.
• 12:26
  Robin Cisek: There's a lot of people that I was working with that were older than me, that were looking to have kids to get married, all that stuff.
• 12:32
  Robin Cisek: And I feel like my commitment level was just a little bit.
• 12:35
  Robin Cisek: Greater than theirs was.
• 12:37
  Robin Cisek: Um, so I ended up pursuing just a solo career.
• 12:39
  Robin Cisek: So I do all my own management, all my own songwriting, all that stuff.
• 12:44
  Robin Cisek: But I think that's been the best path for me just because I've been able to write my own story through my music just a little bit more authentically.
• 12:52
  Robin Cisek: And like when you write individually, I feel like your stories come across a little bit more, um, a little bit more real, and you're able to, to write a little bit more vulnerably.
• 13:02
  Glen Erickson: that's a really good observation, a good point that you make about how you connect with people.
• 13:06
  Glen Erickson: I think like people are always feeling like, how do I connect with people?
• 13:11
  Glen Erickson: Or, you know, even the thought of like, how do I form a band?
• 13:14
  Glen Erickson: And the idea that very quickly in the process of.
• 13:18
  Glen Erickson: collaboration or connection or whatever.
• 13:19
  Glen Erickson: Is this in the music scene at least?
• 13:22
  Glen Erickson: Um, like how tight am I gonna be able to get with these people?
• 13:26
  Glen Erickson: Like, how much are they gonna be able to give?
• 13:28
  Glen Erickson: I think a lot of people have that experience of their first, second, third band, you know, and then the, the people, and then they, they realize that they quickly form around the same love of a thing, but there's so much other stuff, like how committed can other people be?
• 13:44
  Robin Cisek: being a
• 13:45
  Glen Erickson: you were,
• 13:46
  Robin Cisek: is like so crazy because you have to be so vulnerable to complete strangers a lot of the time.
• 13:52
  Robin Cisek: Like, I'm sharing my life story through my music and it's just such a weird thing.
• 13:56
  Robin Cisek: Um, but yeah, I think writing individually for me has really brought me out of my shell a little bit and sharing a lot of those things.
• 14:02
  Glen Erickson: So what, what avenues did you go to try to find, I don't know what the word is.
• 14:07
  Glen Erickson: Maybe opportunities.
• 14:09
  Glen Erickson: I mean, if you're just outta high school the first few years and you're in your early twenties, like where.
• 14:14
  Glen Erickson: You know, where around here were you finding opportunities either to learn, like if you said if you wanted to do some of that stuff on your own, that's a pretty steep learning curve.
• 14:25
  Glen Erickson: I'm, I'm curious sort of what kept you moving along that path.
• 14:29
  Glen Erickson: I,
• 14:29
  Robin Cisek: So I guess I should start with saying I was recently diagnosed with A DHD, so it does explain a lot of
• 14:35
  Glen Erickson: well, me too.
• 14:37
  Robin Cisek: all
• 14:37
  Glen Erickson: about, I'm about eight months into my diagnosis, so there you go.
• 14:42
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 14:42
  Robin Cisek: like with
• 14:43
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 14:43
  Robin Cisek: like.
• 14:44
  Robin Cisek: We're constantly searching for something exciting.
• 14:47
  Robin Cisek: Um, and I think that I found that through the music industry and just getting to explore this cool thing and perform and travel and all that kind of
• 14:56
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 14:56
  Robin Cisek: forward to keep digging at this and make this my career and a reality for me.
• 15:01
  Robin Cisek: So I think when I was pursuing this career of being a solo musician, it was a lot of reaching out to a lot of people.
• 15:07
  Robin Cisek: Just like a lot of cold emails, a lot of like, Hey, gimme a chance to do this.
• 15:12
  Robin Cisek: Um, or what do you think of this?
• 15:13
  Robin Cisek: There's a lot of artists that I've been personally connected with that have answered my questions.
• 15:18
  Robin Cisek: Um, and I've been really lucky because there's a lot of gatekeeping in the music industry.
• 15:21
  Robin Cisek: So I've
• 15:22
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:24
  Robin Cisek: because I've been given that, I always try to give back as well.
• 15:27
  Robin Cisek: So I've been trying to mentor artists or if somebody reaches out to me, give them some kind of advice.
• 15:32
  Robin Cisek: Um, but yeah, it's a, it's a lot of patience.
• 15:34
  Robin Cisek: I find like there's a lot of nos and a lot of ups and downs, and you kind of have to keep, positive and looking towards the future to kind of keep yourself going.
• 15:44
  Robin Cisek: Um, so that has been like, not the best thing ever, but it, it, there's, there's the yeses that keep you going, I feel like.
• 15:51
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 15:51
  Glen Erickson: And I mean, you know, US diagnosed a DH ADHD or are starting to.
• 15:55
  Glen Erickson: Learn how to translate
• 15:56
  Robin Cisek: Mm-hmm.
• 15:57
  Glen Erickson: things into, we operate in a massive dopamine deficiencies for so long.
• 16:03
  Glen Erickson: And, uh, and the chase, you know, the busyness of the chase is essentially what you were describing.
• 16:08
  Glen Erickson: There is a thing that sometimes keeps us up
• 16:11
  Robin Cisek: Yeah.
• 16:12
  Glen Erickson: on that higher level and the nose, or even just the absence of a response feels like a massive hit for us and, uh, and takes us down.
• 16:23
  Glen Erickson: And I think it's funny because we often, uh, I've heard the term from so many people, you know, this is a soul sucking, you know, endeavor so often because you're putting yourself out there continually with the expectation of that.
• 16:34
  Glen Erickson: So, I think that term probably got coined by a whole bunch of a ADHDers in the, in the music business though too.
• 16:41
  Glen Erickson: I mean those years for you, that's like kind of, if, if I'm guessing right, that's kind of right.
• 16:46
  Glen Erickson: Leading up to like pre pandemic years maybe, where you're kind of forming your own identity,
• 16:52
  Robin Cisek: yeah, I
• 16:52
  Glen Erickson: uh, along the way.
• 16:53
  Robin Cisek: I graduated from high school in 2016, so 2021 was actually when I released my very first album, right in the middle of everything.
• 17:02
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, that's, uh, that's a tough timing of a thing, but you would obviously be doing work leading up to that, right?
• 17:08
  Glen Erickson: Like kind of preceding to kind of get to that point.
• 17:11
  Glen Erickson: What did you, what was the goal for you then?
• 17:13
  Glen Erickson: Right?
• 17:14
  Glen Erickson: Like around then, and I, and when I say around then, like I said, there's always, you know, you release an album and it's your first album, it could be like two plus years worth of the work, maybe five years of songs that you are hanging onto and developing and.
• 17:29
  Glen Erickson: Uh, I guess when I ask what were your goals, it's, it's more specifically around, I'm very interested Robin in, because you're younger, you're in the earlier part of your career, like full transparency.
• 17:40
  Glen Erickson: I've had a lot of older people on my podcast as guests, like people that I've known people 20 plus years into this, 20 plus years down the road.
• 17:48
  Glen Erickson: but I'm definitely interested in hearing the side of the story more currently of what people are experiencing and trying to get established as that part of the journey.
• 17:57
  Glen Erickson: And, uh, so I'm curious what, at least at that point, getting to that point of making the first record, what was the goal in your mind?
• 18:04
  Glen Erickson: Was it just to get that thing out?
• 18:07
  Glen Erickson: Was it just, did you feel like you knew who you were or you just needed to make the thing and you were discovering it?
• 18:14
  Glen Erickson: I don't know if, if you can articulate on that.
• 18:16
  Robin Cisek: sure.
• 18:17
  Robin Cisek: I think that for me, my ultimate goal in music has just been to make a career out of this.
• 18:22
  Robin Cisek: I would like to be able to pay my bills, I would like to be able to afford to make more music.
• 18:27
  Robin Cisek: So I think that a lot of musicians, like that's their ultimate goal when it comes down to it.
• 18:31
  Robin Cisek: Um, I think with that album, I really, so I called it Delicate Minds'cause I wanted to talk about a lot of mental health issues and it was.
• 18:40
  Robin Cisek: Very good for me to put it out during Covid because there was a lot of people reflecting on those issues.
• 18:45
  Glen Erickson: Very true.
• 18:45
  Robin Cisek: it had been years that I'd worked on that and I was writing it and I actually sat on it for a whole year thinking, oh, I'll just release it after Covid i's done, after everything opens up.
• 18:55
  Robin Cisek: And then that didn't happen for a few years.
• 18:57
  Robin Cisek: Um,
• 18:58
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 18:58
  Robin Cisek: up sitting on it for a while.
• 19:00
  Robin Cisek: Um, so for me, there was a lot of planning that went in that, and probably an extra half a year to a year extra planning that I didn't really want to do, wasn't in the original plan.
• 19:10
  Robin Cisek: so I ended up doing a lot of cool things with that one.
• 19:12
  Robin Cisek: So I ended up doing music videos and entering some film festival stuff.
• 19:17
  Robin Cisek: Um, but I think like following my main goal of being like able to sustain myself financially with, with being a musician.
• 19:25
  Robin Cisek: There's like little goals also, like in amongst that too.
• 19:28
  Robin Cisek: So like I wanted to try to get my music video and some film festivals and I wanted to have a song on the radio and, and that kind of thing.
• 19:37
  Robin Cisek: So like the little goals were kind of, built up to the main goal of just being able to
• 19:42
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 19:42
  Glen Erickson: So how did you figure those things out?
• 19:45
  Glen Erickson: Like, you obviously have done them, they're sort of listed in, you know, the things that you write about, about yourself, so how.
• 19:52
  Glen Erickson: You know how at that kind of an age, still in your early twenties, there's a lot to learn in this
• 19:57
  Robin Cisek: Oh
• 19:57
  Glen Erickson: business.
• 19:58
  Glen Erickson: Like, so what were the ones that came easy to you?
• 20:02
  Glen Erickson: What were the ones that were a little harder to figure out?
• 20:04
  Robin Cisek: I would say for me, like accomplishing these goals, it's all about network.
• 20:08
  Robin Cisek: Like, it's all about the people you meet, all about the connections you make
• 20:12
  Glen Erickson: I.
• 20:12
  Robin Cisek: sure that your music supports who you are as a person.
• 20:15
  Robin Cisek: So I always feel like if somebody meets me, I want my music to reflect who I am when you meet me.
• 20:20
  Robin Cisek: So I'm not really the type of artist to put on a whole persona and be unapproachable.
• 20:25
  Robin Cisek: I want people to talk to me after my shows.
• 20:28
  Robin Cisek: I want people to come meet me.
• 20:29
  Robin Cisek: Um, but I feel like that's worked out for me because, um, a lot of.
• 20:33
  Robin Cisek: Industry people I meet as well have been able to kind of reflect with the music that I've written and kind of get to know me personally.
• 20:41
  Robin Cisek: So I've depended on a lot of people in radio in sync.
• 20:45
  Robin Cisek: I've had sync people help me with just getting contacts.
• 20:48
  Robin Cisek: I've had people from with that book festivals and they have just made a personal connection with me and either offered me some advice or like gave me an opportunity.
• 20:58
  Robin Cisek: And then there's people that I've just met in, like women's communities, like I attended the, we have an Alberta Women Entrepreneur Awards ceremony here.
• 21:06
  Robin Cisek: I
• 21:07
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 21:08
  Robin Cisek: and meet some people and I got a couple gigs out of that and made some awesome connections.
• 21:12
  Robin Cisek: Um, so for me it was all about, Hey, I'm, I'm Robin, like I'm a musician, and I'm looking for this and just kind of throw it out there.
• 21:19
  Robin Cisek: And the worst thing you can hear is a no.
• 21:21
  Glen Erickson: well, I mean, that's the thing that keeps most people from doing it.
• 21:24
  Glen Erickson: So that's, uh, a fantastic optimism is that, um, I, I guess I'm curious, Robin, is that, natural for you?
• 21:31
  Glen Erickson: Like that's a certain level of hustle and optimism, which sometimes can be attributed to being young and not knowing any better, um, people might say, and sometimes it's attributed to just natural, this is who I am.
• 21:45
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 21:46
  Glen Erickson: And, and or sometimes people just have one of those aha moments where they sort of figure out like what the thing is and decide, I guess this is the way I have to do it.
• 21:56
  Glen Erickson: Like, I'm wondering what that is for you because you're clearly displaying, uh, a certain level of.
• 22:01
  Glen Erickson: Both intuition and hustle
• 22:04
  Robin Cisek: Thank
• 22:04
  Glen Erickson: that are pretty important, so,
• 22:06
  Robin Cisek: for me, I have been lucky.
• 22:08
  Robin Cisek: I've always been a people person and I think that's my favorite part of making music is getting to see how other people interpret it or just getting to
• 22:16
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 22:16
  Robin Cisek: with people and share personal stories about either being in music or enjoying music.
• 22:21
  Robin Cisek: I think it's just being in music is another avenue for me to get to talk to people and get to enjoy their stories and share some of mine.
• 22:29
  Robin Cisek: Um, so I guess that that part has always come naturally to me.
• 22:32
  Robin Cisek: But of course, like.
• 22:34
  Robin Cisek: Everybody hates rejection.
• 22:36
  Robin Cisek: Um, so that has been a little bit of a challenge, obviously, to be like, okay, well the worst thing they can say is no.
• 22:41
  Robin Cisek: And maybe in two years from now they'll be like, oh wow, look how much she's accomplished.
• 22:46
  Robin Cisek: Maybe I missed out on that one.
• 22:48
  Robin Cisek: That's like the, the best thing that could happen is somebody goes, okay, well now I wanna work with you.
• 22:52
  Robin Cisek: Like you've proven yourself.
• 22:54
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 22:55
  Robin Cisek: that challenge is also something that keeps me going.
• 22:58
  Robin Cisek: Like, okay, so I gotta know from this festival, okay, well I'm gonna put out new music and I'm gonna try to make sure that you hire me for in next couple years down the road.
• 23:07
  Robin Cisek: And I think that those are exciting things for me, just to do the chase, like you were saying before.
• 23:12
  Glen Erickson: Is there, like, are you, you're 27 or 28, 27.
• 23:17
  Glen Erickson: Do you, do you feel any,'cause you've been, knee deep in the chase here.
• 23:22
  Glen Erickson: Like you said, if you put a record out in 21 and you were working on it beforehand, so you've been knee deep in this chase for like six, seven years of, of looking at what the inside of the business looks like, for lack of a better term.
• 23:36
  Glen Erickson: I guess I'm, I'm just always curious, like there's a time with everybody.
• 23:40
  Glen Erickson: It feels like jadedness.
• 23:43
  Robin Cisek: Mm-hmm.
• 23:43
  Glen Erickson: Like starts to creep in because of, like you said, all the nos you already identified.
• 23:48
  Glen Erickson: You've recognized how deep the gatekeepers are in the business.
• 23:52
  Glen Erickson: I'm wondering if you've, like, is that something you've wrestled with or do you feel like you, your optimism keeps it at bay, or how, how's that challenge been?
• 24:01
  Robin Cisek: I think that there is a balance between putting yourself out there and also trying to protect yourself, especially as a woman and a solo musician, a
• 24:11
  Glen Erickson: mm-hmm.
• 24:12
  Robin Cisek: travel and represent herself at gigs and all kinds of stuff.
• 24:15
  Robin Cisek: I say I would, I wrestle a lot with just sound techs even, and that's like a, like a very common occurrence for me that people just don't really take me seriously because of how I look.
• 24:26
  Robin Cisek: But I would like to say I know quite a bit about live sound and I kind of have to, change how my live show was Pres presented to make people take me a little more seriously.
• 24:35
  Robin Cisek: So I bring my own table of all my sound equipment with me, and I hand the sound guy an XLR and I say, you do the
• 24:41
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 24:41
  Robin Cisek: I do everything else.
• 24:43
  Robin Cisek: Um, so I've definitely kind of had to adapt, based on people's perceptions of me in the music industry, which kind of sucks.
• 24:49
  Robin Cisek: I wish people would take me seriously upon arrival.
• 24:52
  Robin Cisek: but yeah, that's definitely a challenge and, and trying to get people to see the value in the knowledge you have and what you have to offer as a musician has also been challenging too.
• 25:03
  Robin Cisek: Um, also as an
• 25:04
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 25:04
  Robin Cisek: person, like there's a, a lot of stereotypes around indigenous people, especially in the music industry.
• 25:09
  Robin Cisek: so it's, it's been a challenge to also break those as well.
• 25:13
  Robin Cisek: And as a white presenting indigenous person too, I believe that I have a privilege that a lot of other indigenous artists don't have and therefore I am.
• 25:22
  Robin Cisek: am supposed to be the person that stands up for the other indigenous artists that have these stereotypes very visibly put on them.
• 25:29
  Robin Cisek: so yeah, it's, it, there's definitely a lot of challenges for me, and I feel like it's just taking one thing at a time and trying to better yourself and don't give people the opportunity to doubt your skills.
• 25:42
  Robin Cisek: So having everything
• 25:43
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 25:44
  Robin Cisek: everything ahead of time, showing up early to gigs, looking professional every time I meet someone.
• 25:50
  Robin Cisek: just those little things.
• 25:51
  Robin Cisek: You kind of have to work extra hard to make yourself not doubted by other people, sort of.
• 25:56
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 25:57
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 25:57
  Glen Erickson: I wanna, I wanna make sure I put a pin in.
• 25:59
  Glen Erickson: The things that you were just talking ab uh, about the, the factors that being indigenous that you brought in, bring into that.
• 26:07
  Glen Erickson: 'cause uh, I'm definitely interested in hearing your perspective and experiences.
• 26:11
  Glen Erickson: and I'll bridge to where I want to quickly chat about saying all the things you just said.
• 26:16
  Glen Erickson: Make me think of a guest I only had on a few weeks ago, Brandi Sidoryk of Nice Horse, who was saying all the same things.
• 26:22
  Glen Erickson: How much extra effort she has to, or feels obligated to put in to working because she feels like, you know, for lack of a better term, maybe she feels like she's having to kick the door every single time and every single place she goes into that.
• 26:38
  Glen Erickson: You know, people like me haven't had to unfortunately.
• 26:41
  Glen Erickson: So, uh, so it's a really interesting parallel.
• 26:43
  Glen Erickson: the part about, about the sound engineers, about the lack of respect.
• 26:47
  Glen Erickson: Um, really I think is what you're alluding to in a lot of ways.
• 26:50
  Glen Erickson: Um, I mean if people don't know, um, to me like sound engineers and we're talking really just like the sound guy at a club or a bar or a whoever got hired at the place you're playing.
• 27:02
  Glen Erickson: they so often feel like the it people of the computer world, like these very old school like purists, like I, you know, they think that they talk the language of sound and they don't, uh, they get easily offended.
• 27:16
  Glen Erickson: They seem to have sensitive feelings.
• 27:18
  Glen Erickson: If somebody tells'em what to do, uh, they can often present.
• 27:21
  Glen Erickson: I, I got friends who are in this, so I hope they're not offended.
• 27:24
  Glen Erickson: I'm saying this'cause not everybody's like this, but it's, if there's a bit of a stereotype and what goes along, and the reason I'm framing this stereotype is because unfortunately what goes along with that stereotype is it's dudes and dudes a who don't like to be told what to do and be.
• 27:42
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, we'll immediately assume that because you are a young woman, you couldn't possibly talk the language of sound with them.
• 27:50
  Glen Erickson: And I'm, and that's, I think, what you're alluding to experiencing quite frequently.
• 27:56
  Glen Erickson: So despite how much work and effort you've done to learn your craft and the language of sound, so that you can, you know, control the outcomes of your own live performances, that's, that's what you come up against
• 28:08
  Robin Cisek: And
• 28:09
  Glen Erickson: an awful lot.
• 28:10
  Robin Cisek: no means an expert.
• 28:11
  Robin Cisek: I'm learning production.
• 28:12
  Robin Cisek: I'm releasing my first project where I'm doing my own production.
• 28:15
  Robin Cisek: But I would like the opportunity to prove that I am, I'm with you.
• 28:20
  Robin Cisek: I would like them to
• 28:22
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 28:22
  Robin Cisek: I know, rather than assuming that I don't.
• 28:25
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 28:25
  Glen Erickson: And I think, and the reason I call that out, Robin, is'cause it's 2025.
• 28:30
  Glen Erickson: And I think there's a lot of people who assume that these things,'cause it gets talked about like.
• 28:35
  Glen Erickson: Like all the gender imbalances and, and inequities and even race inequities, right?
• 28:40
  Glen Erickson: All these things get talked about so much now publicly that I get a sense sometimes that people publicly think we're good.
• 28:47
  Glen Erickson: Like, like we're in a better place in society, which we are probably, if we look back historically, but still exists.
• 28:54
  Glen Erickson: It's 2025.
• 28:55
  Glen Erickson: You're a young woman, you're experiencing all of this and you're experiencing it because the, the plain fact I think is like when I played in a band and I would go into a new place and continually, you'd have to meet the new sound guy.
• 29:08
  Glen Erickson: I would just, I would know what version of little jokes I could run off.
• 29:13
  Glen Erickson: I don't even have to know my sound that well, and I could just present some version of like a charming interaction, bro interaction, and then I could get over that hump and now we're on the same team and let's go have a good show.
• 29:27
  Glen Erickson: And you don't get that privilege still anywhere you go.
• 29:31
  Robin Cisek: it's interesting, I, I attended a Women in Music event recently, and I remember that somebody had shared, um, another female musician who works with other women in, in their band.
• 29:42
  Robin Cisek: Um, they had talked to one of the booking people and they had physically said outright, oh yeah, I, I never wanted to hire an all women band after I had this bad
• 29:52
  Glen Erickson: That's Brandy.
• 29:53
  Robin Cisek: women band.
• 29:55
  Robin Cisek: And
• 29:55
  Glen Erickson: Brandy told that story on the podcast.
• 29:58
  Robin Cisek: Okay.
• 29:58
  Robin Cisek: Yeah, and I was like,
• 29:59
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 30:00
  Robin Cisek: is shocking because you'd never hear that about an all male band.
• 30:03
  Robin Cisek: You would
• 30:04
  Glen Erickson: Well that's the joke we made on the episode is like, nobody's used that phrase,
• 30:08
  Robin Cisek: no.
• 30:08
  Glen Erickson: funny you're saying this.
• 30:09
  Glen Erickson: Nobody's ever used that phrase an all male band.
• 30:12
  Glen Erickson: Right?
• 30:12
  Glen Erickson: It's just,
• 30:13
  Robin Cisek: Hey, these
• 30:14
  Glen Erickson: it is, it's very true.
• 30:15
  Glen Erickson: But it, uh, it's very true and it's very unfortunate.
• 30:18
  Glen Erickson: And, I think it's just great to keep talking about those things.
• 30:21
  Glen Erickson: I think I, I don't love that.
• 30:24
  Glen Erickson: I get this feeling sometimes that people think we're good, we've figured it out, we haven't figured it out.
• 30:28
  Glen Erickson: Like there's a lot of work to be done in little pockets.
• 30:31
  Glen Erickson: It's not just, it's not just the, you know, the way the Junos presents a version of equality in music.
• 30:39
  Glen Erickson: It's actually the artist like you showing up in a new venue in a new place and having to encounter the same story every single time.
• 30:48
  Glen Erickson: And how, as a result, probably how you have to prepare yourself for that.
• 30:54
  Glen Erickson: yeah, I guess that's, it's just such an easy way to get jaded
• 30:57
  Robin Cisek: Mm-hmm.
• 30:58
  Glen Erickson: in the business and I don't know.
• 31:00
  Glen Erickson: is the community of women events that you've been attending, is there other ways that you've been either consciously or unconsciously trying to help yourself work through it and not let it creep in?
• 31:13
  Robin Cisek: Yeah, I think.
• 31:14
  Robin Cisek: Uh, like when you say that, what I think of is I think that there's a lot of like women supporting women in this community, which has been really good.
• 31:21
  Robin Cisek: But I also
• 31:22
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 31:22
  Robin Cisek: because women have to put in so much more, uh, perceived effort than the maybe
• 31:28
  Glen Erickson: Yep.
• 31:28
  Robin Cisek: counterparts, I think that there is kind of this competition that can build between women in music as well.
• 31:35
  Robin Cisek: Um, so we can kind of, kind of be mean to each other and think, well, I want that spot.
• 31:40
  Robin Cisek: They're not offering as many spots to women, so I need to compete with all the
• 31:43
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 31:44
  Robin Cisek: to get that spot.
• 31:45
  Glen Erickson: I,
• 31:45
  Robin Cisek: so it really breeds like this, this weird kind of nasty competition that I hate.
• 31:50
  Robin Cisek: And I feel like if we were all at the same level where they're just like, I don't care if you're women or men, we're gonna hire who's the best for the job, but make sure that there's enough women representation and L-G-B-T-Q representation and stuff like that.
• 32:02
  Robin Cisek: I think
• 32:03
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 32:04
  Robin Cisek: be better for breeding more of a, space of support in, in amongst all musicians.
• 32:11
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, that's a really good way to put a robin.
• 32:14
  Glen Erickson: I think that when it, a, as hard as you can try to be women supporting women or any sort of version where there's clearly still only a certain size of the pie available to you, it inevitably will breed competition for that.
• 32:30
  Glen Erickson: I mean, stories like that in all different industries have been told, like right from, if you would watch Mad Men, you know, to that era of history of women trying to break into the advertising marketing world and, uh, was very characterized.
• 32:44
  Glen Erickson: But, but still rings true.
• 32:46
  Glen Erickson: It still happens today.
• 32:47
  Glen Erickson: And yes, if anybody wants to debate it, they, they really shouldn't.
• 32:52
  Glen Erickson: That women have to put in significantly more effort, just in all the different ways, uh, than men are having to do.
• 33:00
  Glen Erickson: And, and I think it shouldn't just be.
• 33:02
  Glen Erickson: Women supporting women groups.
• 33:03
  Glen Erickson: We probably need to find a, uh, men in the industry supporting women, sort of actual efforts, right?
• 33:10
  Glen Erickson: Like, I think there needs to be a, a place where I think the guys, especially the ones who have been around a long time or making distinct efforts to break down walls, to, you know, share and create equity and the opportunities that they're being given.
• 33:24
  Robin Cisek: Yeah.
• 33:25
  Glen Erickson: Um, so, so let me, let me go back to what I wanted to put a pin in then.
• 33:29
  Glen Erickson: 'cause I was going to ask you, you started talking about, being indigenous and how that also obviously plays in, you know, to.
• 33:38
  Glen Erickson: is there only a certain size of the pie available to people, um, from indigenous backgrounds too and a, a long history in this country, in every sector and industry of, of not being given the same privilege or access.
• 33:56
  Glen Erickson: But, uh, you did, you did identify even, a term that I haven't heard very often ever about.
• 34:01
  Glen Erickson: I dunno if you used the term white presenting, but you can, you can identify that.
• 34:05
  Glen Erickson: But, I was gonna ask you, because like your pr literally, it titles you as Metis Pop star and I, it's obviously a conscious choice to use that identification in the same way that historically I've met a number of people, um, from different indigenous backgrounds who have talked about why they would choose to not do that even.
• 34:26
  Robin Cisek: Oh
• 34:27
  Glen Erickson: They felt like they needed to hide it and all the things then they had to deal with because of that.
• 34:32
  Glen Erickson: so I, I was hoping maybe you could just
• 34:34
  Robin Cisek: Yeah,
• 34:34
  Glen Erickson: sort of elaborate on that and talk about your choices and your, and, and your use of that and even the, the, the white presenting part, which is interesting to
• 34:43
  Robin Cisek: there's a lot of indigenous artists that I've met that kind of, it, it really varies on the individual, like how they like to identify themselves.
• 34:51
  Robin Cisek: Um,
• 34:51
  Glen Erickson: mm-hmm.
• 34:52
  Robin Cisek: of indigenous artists that don't put it on there because they feel like they are taking advantage of the opportunities for indigenous people.
• 35:01
  Robin Cisek: And as a white presenting in indigenous person, Metis person, I also feel like I need to sometimes be careful with how many of those opportunities I'm consuming because again, small piece of the pie, I need to make sure that other indigenous people are getting opportunities as well.
• 35:17
  Robin Cisek: But for me, that part of my identity is extremely important.
• 35:21
  Robin Cisek: So my.
• 35:23
  Robin Cisek: Grandparents and my great-grandparents and my other ancestors before them, they were actually road allowance people, um, Metis people that lived in between the road and the property.
• 35:34
  Robin Cisek: Um, so a lot of my ancestors and my relatives were not able to say they were indigenous or Metis, as a very white presenting person.
• 35:44
  Robin Cisek: So my, my ancestors are Orny Island, Metis, which is a Scottish background in indigenous, so it's more rare than the French side.
• 35:52
  Robin Cisek: Um, but we
• 35:53
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 35:53
  Robin Cisek: hair and blue eyes, so we were passing, so a lot of my relatives and ancestors just went with it.
• 36:00
  Robin Cisek: They just said they were white to be able to fit in.
• 36:03
  Robin Cisek: And, It, it sucks.
• 36:04
  Robin Cisek: Like we lost a lot of our heritage.
• 36:06
  Robin Cisek: My
• 36:07
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 36:08
  Robin Cisek: told my grandparents not to say that they were indigenous.
• 36:11
  Robin Cisek: It was don't tell people, don't tell people.
• 36:13
  Robin Cisek: So for me, saying that I'm indigenous, I'm Metis, this is the first thing I'm going to say when I present myself as an artist, is my way to take that back for my family.
• 36:23
  Robin Cisek: Um, so it's always been a super important part of my identity, whether people like it or not, I wanna reclaim that and reconnect with my ancestry.
• 36:31
  Robin Cisek: And it feels good to do that because I feel like it's helped my mom also reconnect and my grandparents too.
• 36:38
  Robin Cisek: Um,
• 36:39
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 36:39
  Robin Cisek: definitely been an important part for me.
• 36:41
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 36:42
  Glen Erickson: that's really beautiful actually.
• 36:43
  Glen Erickson: Um, the reclaiming part especially.
• 36:45
  Glen Erickson: So Metis and I, I just like, I wanna, I like making these distinctions'cause I just know how many people don't understand.
• 36:53
  Glen Erickson: So, if, if I just Google it, I'm just going to, I'm just gonna see the territories and how they're broken up.
• 36:59
  Glen Erickson: You know, like you're Metis from 11 in Alberta, or you're from 10, or you're from, do you know what I mean?
• 37:05
  Glen Erickson: But that's obviously not how you identify sort of the land and the region you came from.
• 37:10
  Glen Erickson: So maybe you could just let
• 37:12
  Robin Cisek: Yeah,
• 37:12
  Glen Erickson: sort of what that actually is for you.
• 37:14
  Robin Cisek: so typically when you're talking about a Metis person, it is a person of European and indigenous ancestry, but it is a person that is an ancestor of a very specific area and a very specific culture.
• 37:29
  Robin Cisek: So for me, I'm a descendant of John Ton from the Manitoba Red River settlement.
• 37:33
  Robin Cisek: And on my grandpa's, mother's side, I also have American Indian in my ancestry as well.
• 37:40
  Robin Cisek: Um, so when it comes to Metis, I'm, I'm from the Red River settlement in Manitoba.
• 37:44
  Robin Cisek: So,
• 37:45
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 37:46
  Robin Cisek: you determine your Metis heritage, you have to connect it to an ancestor that's in one of those communities from a certain timeframe.
• 37:53
  Glen Erickson: So anybody who's listening who both like, I'm over 50 and like, I grew up in Saskatchewan, so like there was a part in our School of elementary school level, where you learn local history and you learn Louis Real's story and you go to Duck Lake'cause it's like close enough and everyone, and it's like part of like field trip and so you say Red River, Manitoba, Metis.
• 38:18
  Glen Erickson: I immediately think a big part of Louis real's story, but I mean that's very.
• 38:23
  Glen Erickson: French Metis and you were making a distinction about Scottish Metis.
• 38:27
  Glen Erickson: So is there, is there overlap?
• 38:29
  Glen Erickson: Is there
• 38:30
  Robin Cisek: There
• 38:30
  Glen Erickson: like, I can't help but be curious about that.
• 38:33
  Robin Cisek: So, it's mostly based on the community.
• 38:35
  Robin Cisek: So the community is where we develop the Red River carts and the Metis sashes and all these pinnacles of Metis culture that kind of follow us today.
• 38:44
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 38:45
  Robin Cisek: My relatives were originally from Scotland.
• 38:48
  Robin Cisek: They traveled to Orny Island and they traveled to these Metis settlements.
• 38:52
  Robin Cisek: Um, so the only difference I would say is that we look different and we didn't speak as much French, so, um, we're still a big part of that community, and we kind of are ingrained in the, in the Metis culture as well.
• 39:04
  Robin Cisek: Um, I remember when my mom was younger, she always used to share this story that, um, she always thought it was normal and all the other kids used to skin muskrats when they came home from school.
• 39:15
  Robin Cisek: But apparently that wasn't normal for kids that weren't Metis and they used to have kitchen parties and all kinds of stuff.
• 39:21
  Robin Cisek: So, my, my mom was very, very ingrained in Metis culture and I grew up in the city, but, for now, like I'm very connected again to my local Metis community and to my grandparents.
• 39:32
  Robin Cisek: So it's been, it's been a huge part of my identity.
• 39:35
  Glen Erickson: Wow.
• 39:35
  Glen Erickson: that's really cool.
• 39:36
  Glen Erickson: Uh, I'm really glad.
• 39:37
  Glen Erickson: Thank you for sharing that and, and, um, helping me understand a little bit more.
• 39:42
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 39:43
  Glen Erickson: So let's jump into kind of more where you're at now.
• 39:47
  Glen Erickson: you've got this album coming up in May, June, and you've released the first single for it And you already sort of alluded right off the start that you've put so much effort into doing a lot of this yourself.
• 39:58
  Glen Erickson: So you're, you're going into an album cycle where you have the support of, uh, a great PR firm.
• 40:05
  Glen Erickson: And Tiffany, who we talked about is, uh, really quickly, is that sort of the only quote unquote part of a team?
• 40:13
  Glen Erickson: Like we talk about our teams as artists, right?
• 40:16
  Glen Erickson: And, and, yeah.
• 40:17
  Robin Cisek: I think for me, my team is a little bit.
• 40:20
  Robin Cisek: Unconventional, I would say.
• 40:22
  Robin Cisek: So I love having my hands in absolutely everything.
• 40:25
  Robin Cisek: I love managing myself and being the one to reach out about festivals and stuff like that.
• 40:30
  Robin Cisek: I like having my say on what I'm putting my name on.
• 40:34
  Robin Cisek: However, Penelope PR is like the best ever.
• 40:38
  Robin Cisek: Um, and I'm really
• 40:39
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 40:39
  Robin Cisek: work with them.
• 40:40
  Robin Cisek: And I think that because I'm so picky about who I work with, that says a lot about how they've treated me and how they've helped me with this, this project.
• 40:48
  Robin Cisek: Um, but for me, my team looks more like I love working with certain photographers.
• 40:52
  Robin Cisek: I love, working with like.
• 40:54
  Robin Cisek: A certain assistant that I like to bring around with me.
• 40:57
  Robin Cisek: Um, just that kind of thing.
• 40:58
  Robin Cisek: Just people who can
• 40:59
  Glen Erickson: Yep.
• 41:00
  Robin Cisek: do the jobs that I need to do rather than handing it off to say, a manager or something like that.
• 41:05
  Robin Cisek: I love being in total control of things, and
• 41:08
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 41:09
  Robin Cisek: hoping that someday my career grows to the point where I do need to outsource that, um, because I would love to keep growing and getting more opportunities.
• 41:16
  Robin Cisek: But at this point that I am right now, I'm having a great time Being in control and having a say in my branding and the way that I create my music, I think that it feels more authentic to me when I have this much of a hand in things and when it connects with people and people connect with my music.
• 41:33
  Robin Cisek: I think that that is even more gratifying to know that it's something that
• 41:37
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 41:37
  Robin Cisek: created.
• 41:38
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 41:38
  Glen Erickson: Well, I think I've always felt from the days when I was in a band, um, my experience led me to believe that sometimes the publicist should be the first person that you ever get.
• 41:48
  Glen Erickson: Like when you're.
• 41:49
  Glen Erickson: Early in a career and starting out, they can create so much legwork for you.
• 41:53
  Glen Erickson: Because the biggest currency almost for you is attention, right?
• 41:58
  Glen Erickson: How do you just get the attention of new fans and new audience you're trying to build?
• 42:03
  Glen Erickson: And then industry people who want to see your fans and your audience in order to give you attention.
• 42:08
  Glen Erickson: So that's their job, is to do the work of helping you get attention.
• 42:12
  Glen Erickson: So I think that's a great choice.
• 42:14
  Glen Erickson: Uh, I do also, I think it's interesting the way you sort of described that, you know, you've, you've found a love for doing it yourself, and you wouldn't Yeah.
• 42:23
  Glen Erickson: And you wouldn't expect you, you're not looking for a relationship where you just hand that off to somebody else.
• 42:27
  Glen Erickson: And that's literally the reverse from a lot of people I've known and, and we talked to in the, in the industry and artists who can't wait to get.
• 42:36
  Glen Erickson: To the point where they can hand it off.
• 42:37
  Glen Erickson: Right?
• 42:38
  Glen Erickson: It's like, I don't want to do all this stuff.
• 42:39
  Glen Erickson: I just wanna make the music.
• 42:40
  Glen Erickson: And, and now, you know, 20 years ago there was a different version of all the things we hated doing Nowadays, it's, you know, everybody feeling the burden of being a content creator takes more time than
• 42:52
  Robin Cisek: sometimes
• 42:52
  Glen Erickson: music, right?
• 42:54
  Robin Cisek: dread doing the work.
• 42:55
  Robin Cisek: Sometimes I dread sending all the emails.
• 42:57
  Robin Cisek: But I do love that it's based on my personal connections.
• 43:01
  Robin Cisek: Like if I
• 43:02
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 43:02
  Robin Cisek: in radio and I send them an email, they know who I am.
• 43:05
  Robin Cisek: We can talk about things going on in our life.
• 43:07
  Robin Cisek: I follow them on social media, and I can see when they're taking their dog for a walk or what's new in their life, and I really like that, so.
• 43:14
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 43:14
  Glen Erickson: I, I was, because I had read some of the things, you had written about your, uh, taking on production in this, and as, as one part of you taking these things on.
• 43:24
  Glen Erickson: But I also, ironically, like, not like, very ironically, like I just yesterday was reading.
• 43:31
  Glen Erickson: the stuff about you and, and the production on this record and how you had done a lot of work to be able to do it yourself and have things at home and all this stuff and that do it yourself, uh, ethic and part that you're trying to make part of your own brand.
• 43:44
  Glen Erickson: But, and then, and then because this is the way TikTok likes to work, feels like they're in your brain.
• 43:50
  Glen Erickson: Then when I was scrolling last night, very late last night, I come across this very short interview with Chappelle R um, and I'm paraphrasing a little bit'cause I didn't catch it all, but this is what she said and I was gonna read it here today.
• 44:02
  Glen Erickson: 'cause I thought it felt like such a parallel, which is, perfect for everything you were just saying, which is, she says the best piece of advice is you just have to do it yourself.
• 44:12
  Glen Erickson: You can't just wait for, I need a manager, I need a label.
• 44:17
  Glen Erickson: But you don't, you're gonna have to be cringey every artist.
• 44:21
  Glen Erickson: For every through all of time has had to be cringey and continues to have to be cringey.
• 44:27
  Glen Erickson: But the way you have to do it is yourself at the beginning because not only do you not have money, you're also blindly trying to figure it out
• 44:34
  Robin Cisek: Oh, yeah.
• 44:35
  Robin Cisek: It's
• 44:35
  Glen Erickson: and it's,
• 44:36
  Robin Cisek: the wall
• 44:36
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 44:36
  Robin Cisek: what sticks.
• 44:37
  Robin Cisek: Every time I spent.
• 44:40
  Robin Cisek: Days making a video game to go with one of my songs.
• 44:43
  Robin Cisek: And I'm pretty sure just the, my five best friends played it all the time, and that was it.
• 44:47
  Robin Cisek: And I wanted it to be this huge thing and this huge part of my release, and it just didn't stick.
• 44:52
  Robin Cisek: And that's okay.
• 44:53
  Robin Cisek: And sometimes you gotta just keep trying weird things and see what goes.
• 44:57
  Robin Cisek: Um, there's a lot of artists that are making it now and they just put one TikTok out that they didn't think was that funny, and it ended up making them viral.
• 45:05
  Robin Cisek: And that's, that's the thing, it's like when you're a musician and you have to do it yourself, you just have to have fun with it.
• 45:10
  Robin Cisek: You just have to be like, what do I wanna try next?
• 45:12
  Robin Cisek: What do I wanna learn?
• 45:14
  Robin Cisek: who do I wanna talk to?
• 45:15
  Robin Cisek: Like, find their email and send them an email.
• 45:18
  Robin Cisek: And you just kind of have to what happens.
• 45:21
  Robin Cisek: It's, it's very like jumping into a black hole.
• 45:24
  Robin Cisek: Like you have no idea what's gonna happen.
• 45:25
  Robin Cisek: You just have to hope for the best.
• 45:27
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, I mean, it's refreshing the way you're framing it, Robin, because, you're looking at it with a, a, a joy and an enthusiasm of owning the thing and experiencing the thing.
• 45:38
  Glen Erickson: Uh, and a lot of people, you know, it's literally just about I can't afford it otherwise, and if I could afford, I would pay all the people to do all the things or something like that.
• 45:48
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 45:49
  Glen Erickson: but the production part I was gonna ask you about, because you have expressed sort of a real joy of learning the production part, which I'm seeing a lot more.
• 45:57
  Glen Erickson: So the industry has lacked female representation in the studios, in the production skills at all the different levels and roles.
• 46:05
  Glen Erickson: you know, especially sometimes as a producer, but even in the different versions of engineers and and tech along the way, and so I think it's interesting.
• 46:15
  Glen Erickson: One is, I read, you mentioned Gin Ting, who's from Edmonton, who was on the very first, when I first joined Alberta Music's board back in the 2000 OTTs or whatever.
• 46:28
  Glen Erickson: She was on the board and I got to know Gin Ting.
• 46:30
  Glen Erickson: And, uh, I've seen a lot of her activity recently.
• 46:33
  Glen Erickson: So how has, how has she been able to influence and shape, those choices and your ability to sort of learn and do it yourself?
• 46:40
  Glen Erickson: And what are the other ways that someone like yourself finds a way to get skilled up in, in doing that?
• 46:48
  Robin Cisek: Well, you know, did you know she started as like a pop star?
• 46:51
  Robin Cisek: Like she
• 46:52
  Glen Erickson: Oh, I know.
• 46:53
  Glen Erickson: I'm well aware.
• 46:54
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 46:55
  Robin Cisek: Um, so it's, it's really been inspiring to me to see that she went from.
• 47:01
  Robin Cisek: of just being like in spotlight to wanting to take control of her own sound.
• 47:05
  Robin Cisek: Kind of the same as I wanted to do.
• 47:07
  Robin Cisek: Um, so she's been a big inspir inspiration for me and a lot of other producers who are male have also been like huge inspirations for me.
• 47:16
  Robin Cisek: I think that through my journey of learning production and working on my own music, I have been incredibly lucky to work with a lot of producers that have my back.
• 47:27
  Robin Cisek: Like, I feel like I can
• 47:28
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 47:28
  Robin Cisek: out to the majority of the people that I've produced with and say, Hey, can you listen to this and tell me if it needs anything or tell me if I'm on the right path, or, you know what, can you just give it a listen and see what you think?
• 47:39
  Robin Cisek: Or, Hey, I can't figure out what the heck a bus is.
• 47:42
  Robin Cisek: Can you please tell me what that is?
• 47:44
  Robin Cisek: Um, so just a lot of like.
• 47:47
  Robin Cisek: Asking for
• 47:47
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 47:48
  Robin Cisek: but yeah, they've, they've been huge inspirations for me and, and me as an artist who wants to have more control over my music.
• 47:55
  Robin Cisek: I think production is probably my biggest cost when coming to Into Music and other than maybe marketing, but as far as like creating your music, like that, production cost is substantial.
• 48:08
  Robin Cisek: Um, so being able
• 48:09
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 48:09
  Robin Cisek: a lot of that myself is going to make a huge impact on my future as an artist and my ability to my ultimate goal, which is to make this my full-time career and financially support me.
• 48:21
  Robin Cisek: Um, so little things that you can take on and learn like that, I think make a huge impact.
• 48:27
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 48:28
  Glen Erickson: I mean, that choice is really just a capital cost then, right?
• 48:30
  Glen Erickson: Like you're paying for the equipment you wanna use upfront, versus paying somebody else every single time you need to record, even if it's just, you know, doing scratching out or, or not even final recording.
• 48:43
  Glen Erickson: Every little part would cost money in that way.
• 48:45
  Glen Erickson: and so you're, you're sort of more or less in the umbrella of the pop.
• 48:50
  Robin Cisek: Mm-hmm.
• 48:51
  Glen Erickson: is where you've been following and you continue to pursue.
• 48:54
  Glen Erickson: And so it's an interesting choice to me because pop music more than the other genres, I feel is completely actually driven by producers and,
• 49:04
  Robin Cisek: Big time.
• 49:05
  Glen Erickson: and they completely shaped the sound.
• 49:07
  Glen Erickson: And I, I found, I heard an interesting quote unrelated to this, but I feel is related where I saw somebody talk about how the editors right now are really the people in the creative world with the power.
• 49:18
  Glen Erickson: So if you think about it, right, either like a director goes and makes a movie, but who, whoever is the guy who does the cutting
• 49:26
  Robin Cisek: Yeah.
• 49:27
  Glen Erickson: they choose what scenes get in there.
• 49:29
  Glen Erickson: Like, at some point, somebody, uh,
• 49:32
  Robin Cisek: for sure.
• 49:32
  Glen Erickson: yeah, and they, they drew this all the way back to like in the 15 hundreds.
• 49:36
  Glen Erickson: Like all these guys wrote these books to the Bible
• 49:39
  Robin Cisek: Mm-hmm.
• 49:39
  Glen Erickson: and then.
• 49:40
  Glen Erickson: A small group of men decided which ones would get in there, changed.
• 49:44
  Glen Erickson: That changed the whole course of history.
• 49:46
  Glen Erickson: The editors have incredible power.
• 49:48
  Glen Erickson: So similarly, the producers and pop like have so much power and you know, and it can be, it can be 50 50 sort of how much say you have in the direction.
• 49:58
  Glen Erickson: And sometimes it's all of them, right?
• 50:00
  Glen Erickson: And when you have money or experience or influence or you have a whole team, like people sign to labels and then the labels have the clout to maybe pair you up with a producer who might share your vision for how things are gonna come out.
• 50:14
  Glen Erickson: But there's countless horror stories of artists who have made records that they never wanted to release, but were locked into it because the label paid that producer and that producer took it another direction.
• 50:24
  Glen Erickson: So did, I guess one of my questions is, were you, were you having challenging situations?
• 50:29
  Glen Erickson: In working with other producers and sort of achieving your own artistic vision, I guess is my first question.
• 50:36
  Glen Erickson: Was that part of it?
• 50:37
  Robin Cisek: that I've had.
• 50:38
  Robin Cisek: very good experiences.
• 50:40
  Robin Cisek: Like I've
• 50:40
  Glen Erickson: Hmm
• 50:41
  Robin Cisek: lucky in my artistic journey that most of my producers have seen and heard me, especially as a woman in the music industry, again, like sometimes you don't really have that and you don't really have a voice.
• 50:51
  Robin Cisek: I've been incredibly lucky,
• 50:53
  Glen Erickson: hmm.
• 50:53
  Robin Cisek: think because I've been lucky, I've been able to learn along the way.
• 50:57
  Robin Cisek: So I've been able to sit right up next to them while they're working on stuff and it's kind of developed my interest and it developed my, um, my own personal artistic, like wants, out of it.
• 51:08
  Robin Cisek: Uh, so I think that like, I've just wanted to pursue this.
• 51:11
  Robin Cisek: I think that it was just the next step in my musical journey of taking more and more control and presenting the most authentic artist that I can forward and the most authentic music.
• 51:22
  Robin Cisek: So for me it was just a challenge I wanted to take on to further my career.
• 51:27
  Robin Cisek: I also recognized that as a woman in the music industry, a lot of women, there's like this.
• 51:32
  Robin Cisek: Fake like age that you need to age out of the music industry.
• 51:37
  Robin Cisek: And it's a terrible thing that's put on a lot of young women who are creating music.
• 51:41
  Robin Cisek: And I don't agree with it at all because Kylie Minogue is not a young lady anymore, and she's making bangers like crazy.
• 51:49
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 51:49
  Robin Cisek: But there is this like weird understanding that once you turn 30, like you're, you're done.
• 51:55
  Robin Cisek: Um,
• 51:56
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, there's, there's ageism.
• 51:58
  Robin Cisek: Yeah.
• 51:59
  Glen Erickson: ageism throughout the industry.
• 52:00
  Glen Erickson: Like it's ageism.
• 52:02
  Glen Erickson: It's not sexism,
• 52:03
  Robin Cisek: Yeah.
• 52:04
  Glen Erickson: of all, because I've experienced,
• 52:06
  Robin Cisek: Oh,
• 52:06
  Glen Erickson: even a guy my age, I feel like I have no more relevance.
• 52:12
  Glen Erickson: Like that's just because that's the industry.
• 52:14
  Glen Erickson: But,
• 52:15
  Robin Cisek: that.
• 52:15
  Glen Erickson: but yeah.
• 52:16
  Glen Erickson: But then you move that over to that there is sexism and they overlap.
• 52:21
  Glen Erickson: And then you're right.
• 52:22
  Glen Erickson: You have, now you have that double thing that's going on with how does that particularly happen to women?
• 52:28
  Glen Erickson: And again, I keep referencing previous guests.
• 52:30
  Glen Erickson: I had a friend on Adeline who when I met her, was like 30 years old and already experiencing feeling like her career was just starting and she had all these opportunities and she felt I.
• 52:41
  Glen Erickson: Like she had this narrow little timeline left to try to, to make it, to break out.
• 52:46
  Glen Erickson: But she's had a career.
• 52:48
  Glen Erickson: She's had a career like,
• 52:49
  Robin Cisek: best.
• 52:50
  Robin Cisek: Like you have the most knowledge you've ever had, how could that possibly be the end of your
• 52:54
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 52:55
  Robin Cisek: But I think for
• 52:55
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 52:56
  Robin Cisek: I
• 52:57
  Glen Erickson: I,
• 52:58
  Robin Cisek: I refuse to be.
• 53:01
  Glen Erickson: hmm.
• 53:01
  Robin Cisek: Like, I, I wanna be 50 and I wanna still be creating music.
• 53:04
  Robin Cisek: I wanna be in my retirement, creating music just for fun, and I wanna be taken seriously.
• 53:09
  Robin Cisek: So for me, anything that's an opportunity to learn and create a new value for myself or create a new position for me to stay in the music industry is something I want to do, um,
• 53:20
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 53:21
  Robin Cisek: wanna be doing this, something that I'm passionate about for as long as I possibly can.
• 53:26
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 53:26
  Glen Erickson: And I think that's great because like you mentioned earlier, well, just the idea of you wanting to do it yourself, which a lot of people could skeptically sit here and go, well, if you really wanna make it.
• 53:36
  Glen Erickson: Quote unquote, eventually you're gonna have to like have a big team and give the power over to somebody who's a specialist in all of these areas and parts of that are and aren't true.
• 53:47
  Glen Erickson: But, first of all, we have to, and that's what I'm trying to do with this podcast, dispel the idea of what making it
• 53:53
  Robin Cisek: Mm-hmm.
• 53:53
  Glen Erickson: what a career in music actually is.
• 53:55
  Glen Erickson: And, and therefore owning all these steps so enthusiastically like you are, I think, is a great example and story of what it can actually look like and what the opportunity are.
• 54:07
  Glen Erickson: And what I love about it is like we get the chance cause you're still young at it, to watch how that plays out for you, which is gonna be great.
• 54:13
  Glen Erickson: I mean, if you look at, we were referencing pop and you were talking about the idea of like taking control back of all of these areas.
• 54:21
  Glen Erickson: I mean, the biggest examples in the, on the biggest stage we have are, uh, artists like Taylor or Beyonce who had gone through the typical cycle of.
• 54:31
  Glen Erickson: Having somebody else control their career and the choices and then when they finally got to enough like clout or whatever, that they were able to take it all back, right?
• 54:42
  Glen Erickson: They don't wanna hand it off to someone else.
• 54:44
  Glen Erickson: They do wanna own it.
• 54:45
  Glen Erickson: They're sharing the same sentiment that you are where you are in your career.
• 54:49
  Glen Erickson: And I think it's important to tie those together to say, the truth is you should be able to own your choices and, and not give them away.
• 54:58
  Glen Erickson: So, so let's, let's talk about play dirty and where you're at right now.
• 55:02
  Glen Erickson: So, and let's use your single cause we don't know what the whole album is, but my guess is that it fits in well with what your whole album and intention is.
• 55:11
  Glen Erickson: So you are doing the production, like you said, you now get to own the choices.
• 55:16
  Glen Erickson: What are you trying to make in your music?
• 55:18
  Glen Erickson: Like, what is the thing when it's done that you're gonna be so happy and satisfied with?
• 55:23
  Glen Erickson: What are those choices you're getting to make?
• 55:26
  Robin Cisek: So I think with my songwriting, it has always been a challenge for me to be completely vulnerable when I'm writing with other people.
• 55:34
  Robin Cisek: And I feel like now that I've grown as an artist, I've become more comfortable with it.
• 55:38
  Robin Cisek: But I still think I am the, the best writer when I'm on my own.
• 55:42
  Robin Cisek: And I can really think things through and think about, okay, when was an experience that made me feel this way?
• 55:48
  Robin Cisek: So I think with this new album that I have coming out, there's a lot of love songs, a lot of revenge songs, and maybe stuff I wasn't comfortable like letting people into my little world
• 55:58
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 55:59
  Robin Cisek: Um, so play dirty I felt like was a good.
• 56:02
  Robin Cisek: First experience of my new project coming out just because I produced the whole thing.
• 56:06
  Robin Cisek: I wrote the whole thing and it was one of the first songs that I did produce on this album.
• 56:12
  Robin Cisek: Um, but I also think it had an edginess that was still pretty vulnerable.
• 56:16
  Robin Cisek: Maybe something I don't usually share in my music was that little bit of like grit and little revenge song that, um, I haven't shared before.
• 56:24
  Robin Cisek: So
• 56:24
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 56:25
  Robin Cisek: that it is reflective of the growth that I've had as a musician.
• 56:30
  Glen Erickson: That's pretty great.
• 56:30
  Glen Erickson: like vulnerability is a pretty huge thing.
• 56:34
  Glen Erickson: what are the areas that you, if I can ask, it's a vulnerable question.
• 56:39
  Glen Erickson: Uh, what are the areas that, for you feel like most vulnerable to sort of put out there?
• 56:44
  Glen Erickson: Like, for me, I remember going through a, a time of being like, and maybe this is partially stereotypes of a man, like.
• 56:51
  Glen Erickson: Mental health things were difficult to talk about right for a while, and so I'm wondering what the, what the vulnerabilities are that are hard for you.
• 57:00
  Robin Cisek: like for me it's relationships.
• 57:02
  Robin Cisek: I feel like I close that part off of, of myself for my music career.
• 57:08
  Robin Cisek: So I feel like for me, a lot of this album is about relationships.
• 57:11
  Robin Cisek: So I can tell you a little bit about the album just'cause I have
• 57:14
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 57:14
  Glen Erickson: Please do.
• 57:15
  Robin Cisek: Um, the album's gonna be called Tempered.
• 57:17
  Robin Cisek: Um, so I wanted to kind of create a title that talked about, the way that we talk about emotions.
• 57:24
  Robin Cisek: so me as a woman, I'm, I reflect on that a lot.
• 57:27
  Robin Cisek: there's kind of this balance between, I'm gonna be loud and angry and.
• 57:32
  Robin Cisek: Tempered having a temper.
• 57:34
  Robin Cisek: But then there's also this balance between choosing to be strong and silent.
• 57:38
  Robin Cisek: Kind of like tempered glasses.
• 57:39
  Robin Cisek: You is fragile, but also strong.
• 57:42
  Robin Cisek: Um, so I wanted to really play with that contrast.
• 57:46
  Robin Cisek: So there's a lot of songs that are outwardly angry on my album, but there's also a lot of songs that talk about love in a positive way.
• 57:53
  Robin Cisek: So I wanted to kind of balance those two experiences that a lot of people have in being, outwardly emotional or just being strong and quiet.
• 58:01
  Glen Erickson: well, everyone loves a double entendre, so that's a great use of tempered as two different things there.
• 58:06
  Glen Erickson: so getting this out right now, what, what is the hope for you?
• 58:11
  Glen Erickson: Like, I'll frame it this way, we've already sort of just talked about where you've come from and where you're getting to and what you want to accomplish and what you want to do.
• 58:19
  Glen Erickson: And we would all love to make the big leap and jump like three rungs up the ladder, but we, but you're obviously, you've shared so much realism in what you've experienced and understanding how things really work.
• 58:31
  Glen Erickson: So for you, what do you feel like is the real next rung of the ladder?
• 58:36
  Glen Erickson: For you?
• 58:37
  Glen Erickson: Is it, is it the live shows or some opportunities you wanna get that way?
• 58:42
  Glen Erickson: Is it just strictly fan base and growing fan base kind of numbers and support kinda leading to a next record?
• 58:49
  Glen Erickson: Or is, is there something specific that you feel this would tell me?
• 58:54
  Glen Erickson: Like, I succeeded, I got, I got to where I wanted to get.
• 58:57
  Robin Cisek: that's a good question.
• 58:58
  Robin Cisek: I think that there's lots of goals that I have that if I had reached those, I would feel like it was successful.
• 59:05
  Robin Cisek: One of the things I would really like to pursue is trying to get sync deals.
• 59:08
  Robin Cisek: Like I would love to see how people use my art to make their art say something to people.
• 59:14
  Robin Cisek: I think music
• 59:15
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 59:16
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 59:16
  Robin Cisek: in movies.
• 59:17
  Robin Cisek: Like I'm sure if you played me a scene from a movie and it was sad and it didn't have that backing sad music, it just wouldn't feel the same.
• 59:23
  Robin Cisek: Um,
• 59:24
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 59:24
  Robin Cisek: love to see somebody's take with my music for, for film.
• 59:28
  Robin Cisek: I always am very appreciative of all the radio hosts and stuff playing me on radio, so that's always really cool for me.
• 59:35
  Robin Cisek: And yeah, I think just like getting my music out there a little bit more would be, would be nice.
• 59:40
  Robin Cisek: Like getting more streams and things like that.
• 59:42
  Robin Cisek: And like I, like I said before, I love connecting with people, so getting to connect with more people, um, would be awesome.
• 59:48
  Robin Cisek: but yeah, like lots of, lots of things that I'm hoping work out for me.
• 59:52
  Robin Cisek: But I guess we'll see.
• 59:53
  Glen Erickson: Is there, so the, on this album, you can tell me if I'm wrong here, I'm making some guesses.
• 59:59
  Glen Erickson: It feels like a, a definite shift.
• 1:00:01
  Glen Erickson: Like you're trying to make an obvious shift.
• 1:00:04
  Glen Erickson: even just Googling you, Robin, like you're, you're former presentation yourself might have been brighter colors, right?
• 1:00:12
  Glen Erickson: I mean, stuff that fits very much inside of the kind of pop music that was happening.
• 1:00:16
  Glen Erickson: the limited amount of things I've seen already around this release feel a little more darker, a little more like black wardrobe wise even, right.
• 1:00:26
  Glen Erickson: As well as just more contrast in, uh, a lot of the tone, feels very intentional.
• 1:00:32
  Glen Erickson: maybe you can just describe how that sort of reflects not just the record, but maybe where you're at right now.
• 1:00:38
  Robin Cisek: I feel like both of those kind of presentations reflect who I am as an artist and as a person.
• 1:00:44
  Robin Cisek: But I think with this album I really wanted to keep the branding consistent and I want people to know what they're expecting from the music.
• 1:00:51
  Robin Cisek: I think a lot of my songs are a little bit edgier.
• 1:00:54
  Robin Cisek: They're pop music, but they lean a little bit alternative, and I've definitely experimented a lot with the sound on this one.
• 1:01:01
  Robin Cisek: So I wanted the images to pop and kind of connect with that exploration and that kind of the new era of my music that I'm going through with my own self production.
• 1:01:10
  Robin Cisek: so it was definitely a conscious choice to kind of make that shift and, and create something that was.
• 1:01:15
  Robin Cisek: Visually connected to the music.
• 1:01:18
  Robin Cisek: I think that like this dark persona is more me on stage.
• 1:01:23
  Robin Cisek: Like when I'm performing, I definitely dress like this more than I wear the bright colors and stuff.
• 1:01:28
  Robin Cisek: I feel like I am falling into my own space now.
• 1:01:33
  Robin Cisek: Like I feel more comfortable with what I'm presenting.
• 1:01:36
  Robin Cisek: I feel like the colorfulness of maybe the last couple releases were more kind of what was expected of pop music.
• 1:01:43
  Robin Cisek: So I wanna add a little bit of edge to my vibe now.
• 1:01:46
  Glen Erickson: Uh, that's awesome.
• 1:01:46
  Glen Erickson: By the way, anytime I hear anybody feeling that they can express a level of being comfortable in your own skin and making that a part of the whole package and not feel like you have to, you know, present
• 1:01:59
  Robin Cisek: Mm-hmm.
• 1:02:00
  Glen Erickson: in a certain way rather than just the way you want to present is pretty great.
• 1:02:04
  Glen Erickson: So, and just the way you described the, the last little part about the influence on your music, which, what I like about it is like if I listen to pop, which can be so many different things, we just use one word, but it still is a genre, kind of like country.
• 1:02:19
  Glen Erickson: I feel like I can pick out, you know, the stuff that's very obvious, like, I can put this in this box.
• 1:02:25
  Glen Erickson: And, uh, right off the bat, play dirty.
• 1:02:28
  Glen Erickson: Did not feel like it fit in a box, which I'm gonna guess after talking.
• 1:02:32
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:02:32
  Glen Erickson: Okay, good.
• 1:02:32
  Glen Erickson: Uh, after talking to you now, I, I could already guess that that was not gonna be a backhanded compliment for you at all.
• 1:02:39
  Robin Cisek: I
• 1:02:40
  Glen Erickson: Um,
• 1:02:40
  Robin Cisek: of stuff.
• 1:02:41
  Glen Erickson: so I'm interested what your influences are.
• 1:02:44
  Glen Erickson: I like hearing who people are listening to, even what you were listening to that got you to play dirty.
• 1:02:50
  Glen Erickson: But even then, what you're listening to now that you're feeling is gonna shape the next record.
• 1:02:54
  Glen Erickson: I'm interested what your influences are.
• 1:02:56
  Robin Cisek: have so many musical influences.
• 1:02:59
  Robin Cisek: I think I'm a huge fan of Stevie Nicks, Fleetwood Mac.
• 1:03:03
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 1:03:03
  Robin Cisek: this album I was in a huge, uh, there's an artist called Banks that I'm a huge fan of.
• 1:03:09
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 1:03:09
  Robin Cisek: kind of pop alternative, but really of heavy bass and that sort of thing.
• 1:03:14
  Robin Cisek: I really enjoy her music.
• 1:03:16
  Robin Cisek: I have listened to Rick Springfield growing up, um, all kinds of stuff.
• 1:03:21
  Robin Cisek: My favorite, favorite band is Mother.
• 1:03:23
  Robin Cisek: Mother and I love Hozier, so I'm all
• 1:03:25
  Glen Erickson: Mm.
• 1:03:26
  Robin Cisek: for genres.
• 1:03:27
  Robin Cisek: I think when I pick music, I like to hear.
• 1:03:30
  Robin Cisek: Things that kind of break outside the box.
• 1:03:32
  Robin Cisek: I like to hear things that aren't common.
• 1:03:34
  Robin Cisek: And as much as I love Sabrina Carpenter and all these pop musicians that are coming up with simple pop, with really good melodies, I love that stuff too.
• 1:03:44
  Robin Cisek: But I am more drawn to alternative things and things that interest me as far as like melody goes too.
• 1:03:50
  Robin Cisek: Um, I like to explore and I, I think that I've got the opportunity to do that with this project.
• 1:03:56
  Glen Erickson: so I described that in a little different way, but the metaphor, like the way you were just talking about Yeah.
• 1:04:01
  Glen Erickson: I still like Sabrina Carpenter and what.
• 1:04:03
  Glen Erickson: Everyone is like the very clear, sort of top of the pop right now stuff.
• 1:04:08
  Glen Erickson: But I, I like all these other things.
• 1:04:10
  Glen Erickson: It makes me feel like I've had this conversation where I'm like, yeah, you all see me liking stuff that we can all sort of share.
• 1:04:17
  Glen Erickson: It's like, I like candy.
• 1:04:20
  Glen Erickson: We all can, like we maybe we all like similar candies.
• 1:04:23
  Glen Erickson: I can go to work and we can all like, everybody wants to enjoy like a bag of Twizzlers or something.
• 1:04:29
  Glen Erickson: I'm being dumped.
• 1:04:29
  Glen Erickson: But, but what they don't know is like when I come home, I have a pantry full of it.
• 1:04:33
  Glen Erickson: Like that's how much I like candy.
• 1:04:35
  Glen Erickson: So the way you were describing that just made me feel of that enthusiast.
• 1:04:38
  Glen Erickson: I'm like, you don't get it.
• 1:04:39
  Glen Erickson: Like I have all of these influences back here.
• 1:04:43
  Glen Erickson: and I mean everything from Stevie Nick's songwriting, uh, up to some of the things he shared, like, uh, are fantastic.
• 1:04:51
  Robin Cisek: os.
• 1:04:51
  Robin Cisek: I've been searching for their record for so long and I got one this past summer.
• 1:04:55
  Robin Cisek: Finally,
• 1:04:56
  Glen Erickson: Like a vinyl, like you're Oh,
• 1:04:58
  Robin Cisek: And it was like my find, I was very happy about it, but huge pop influence there.
• 1:05:04
  Glen Erickson: Well, I just saw an interesting quote, which was, they said, uh, Darryl Hall has never had a charting hit since he stopped making music.
• 1:05:14
  Glen Erickson: Uh, even though everyone said oats was, you know, the silent whatever.
• 1:05:17
  Glen Erickson: It's funny.
• 1:05:18
  Glen Erickson: But, um, know those are pretty, pretty great influences.
• 1:05:22
  Glen Erickson: so I, your links get posted with the show notes and everywhere I put it, I just wanna make sure everybody knows to go and check out.
• 1:05:29
  Glen Erickson: 'cause you have a new single
• 1:05:30
  Robin Cisek: Yeah.
• 1:05:30
  Glen Erickson: Robin Cizik.
• 1:05:32
  Glen Erickson: If you're only listening and you just never bothered to read the title of the actual podcast, it's Cizik, C-I-S-E-K,
• 1:05:39
  Robin Cisek: Yeah.
• 1:05:39
  Glen Erickson: um, it's called Play Dirty.
• 1:05:41
  Glen Erickson: The record's gonna be coming out and people can see it.
• 1:05:44
  Glen Erickson: And is there anything.
• 1:05:46
  Glen Erickson: Else people need to know or they can, they could check out.
• 1:05:49
  Glen Erickson: Is there gonna be other things to watch for
• 1:05:51
  Robin Cisek: I have
• 1:05:52
  Glen Erickson: between now and then?
• 1:05:53
  Robin Cisek: coming out on April 25th, and the album will be out on May 30th.
• 1:05:58
  Robin Cisek: Um, I
• 1:05:58
  Glen Erickson: Awesome.
• 1:05:59
  Robin Cisek: save up.
• 1:06:00
  Robin Cisek: Um, I also have socials, so if you feel like following me or checking out what I'm doing, that's, um, Robin Cizik, which is R-O-B-I-N-C-I-S-E-K.
• 1:06:09
  Robin Cisek: I also have a website.
• 1:06:10
  Robin Cisek: I would be super excited to see anybody come to my shows.
• 1:06:13
  Robin Cisek: I've got a couple posted on my Instagram and my website there.
• 1:06:16
  Robin Cisek: Um, if you do come, say hi to me.
• 1:06:18
  Robin Cisek: I love talking to people.
• 1:06:20
  Glen Erickson: Awesome.
• 1:06:20
  Glen Erickson: Well, I really appreciate the time that you took and like diving into some rabbit holes of your career and story with me, and it's been really awesome.
• 1:06:29
  Glen Erickson: I, uh, my favorite thing about this podcast so far, I'm gonna let you know, Robin, is when somebody writes me and it, it's usually a friend or an older friend and they'll tell me, they'll use some version of the phrase.
• 1:06:42
  Glen Erickson: Like, I like that person.
• 1:06:44
  Glen Erickson: I could totally hang out with that person.
• 1:06:46
  Glen Erickson: And you only know that by getting to know them, by eavesdropping on a conversation.
• 1:06:50
  Glen Erickson: Or they'll say like, I needed to pause and then go and listen to the song you were talking about, or something like that.
• 1:06:57
  Glen Erickson: So I'm, I'm excited for people to have that experience and get to know who you are too.
• 1:07:02
  Glen Erickson: And I just wanna wish you all the best and thank you for the,
• 1:07:05
  Robin Cisek: thank
• 1:07:05
  Glen Erickson: for the time everybody.
• 1:07:07
  Robin Cisek: It's
• 1:07:07
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, my pleasure.
• 1:07:08
  Robin Cisek: you about shop and about some of my new projects, so I appreciate you having me here.
• 1:07:13
  Glen Erickson: Oh, that's great.
• 1:07:13
  Glen Erickson: Uh, it's been awesome.
• 1:07:14
  Glen Erickson: I look forward to seeing more from you.
• 1:07:16
  Glen Erickson: Okay,
• 1:07:16
  Robin Cisek: you.
• 1:07:16
  Glen Erickson: awesome.
• 1:07:17
  Glen Erickson: Take care, Robin.
• 1:07:18
  Robin Cisek: You too.
• 1:07:18
  Glen Erickson: Okay, bye-bye.
• 1:07:19
  Robin Cisek: Bye.
• 1:07:26
  alexi: ready for next season,
• 1:07:27
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:07:28
  Glen Erickson: I'm a little stressed about next season.
• 1:07:30
  Glen Erickson: I am a little stressed thinking about next season, Lexi.
• 1:07:32
  Glen Erickson: I.
• 1:07:32
  alexi: why you are doing so
• 1:07:34
  Glen Erickson: Um, well, thank you.
• 1:07:35
  Glen Erickson: I appreciate that.
• 1:07:36
  Glen Erickson: But I, I don't know, you know, I just, I know that there's a bunch of things I need to still learn and take some time to do better, but I kind of don't want to take the time off'cause I, you know, like 12, 13 episodes.
• 1:07:48
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:07:48
  Glen Erickson: Like, I feel like I'm just.
• 1:07:50
  Glen Erickson: Learning, uh, just building momentum.
• 1:07:52
  Glen Erickson: I don't know, you know.
• 1:07:53
  Glen Erickson: Anyhow, there's lots of things and I'm just this person who's like, I don't want to put that ball down for a second.
• 1:07:59
  Glen Erickson: I'm always afraid that it doesn't get picked back up or something.
• 1:08:02
  Glen Erickson: My own little mental whatever, things to sort out.
• 1:08:05
  Glen Erickson: But it's fine.
• 1:08:06
  Glen Erickson: Thank you for taking some time tonight to talk about the episode with me.
• 1:08:11
  Glen Erickson: So Robin Cizik is, uh, somebody who is new to me and on the radar.
• 1:08:18
  Glen Erickson: Um, I said radar, very funny there.
• 1:08:20
  Glen Erickson: anyhow, it was really an interesting conversation.
• 1:08:24
  Glen Erickson: I really enjoyed, a conversation with her especially.
• 1:08:27
  Glen Erickson: She was very.
• 1:08:29
  Glen Erickson: quick and articulate, which is always really nice and refreshing when you talk to somebody.
• 1:08:34
  Glen Erickson: You just never know what to expect and just very ah, just very well.
• 1:08:39
  Glen Erickson: Well, I said quick and articulate already, but specifically to.
• 1:08:42
  Glen Erickson: The things she was talking about, which is, obviously her music, her career, her choices to kind of own things herself and the absolute joy and pride she takes in, do it yourself.
• 1:08:55
  Glen Erickson: And, uh, I guess I've just seen so many people who treat, do it yourself as kind of the only option they have when nobody's.
• 1:09:06
  Glen Erickson: Rushing to help them out, right?
• 1:09:08
  Glen Erickson: So it's like, I guess I'll do this myself.
• 1:09:10
  Glen Erickson: Whereas she's like, no, I want to do this myself.
• 1:09:12
  Glen Erickson: Like this choice.
• 1:09:14
  Glen Erickson: Um, yeah.
• 1:09:15
  Glen Erickson: And there was that, and then there was the self-empowerment part about, uh, her heritage and her family and her great articulation about her Metis heritage and what that actually means, Where she was from.
• 1:09:30
  Glen Erickson: but mostly that I made a note that she's being introduced on the PR and the promotional pieces as Metis Pop Singer, and that's a conscious choice to put that identification in there, right?
• 1:09:43
  Glen Erickson: It's like, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be cautious, but I'm gonna be openly transparent if I'm making.
• 1:09:50
  Glen Erickson: Either mistakes or I can be misunderstood or misinterpreted.
• 1:09:53
  Glen Erickson: That's life.
• 1:09:54
  Glen Erickson: But you know, in other, or let me take it out of race and switch it to gender really quick, right?
• 1:10:01
  Glen Erickson: Like it's very clear in the conversation that people don't still want to be using the term.
• 1:10:08
  Glen Erickson: You know, she's a female pop singer, she's just a pop singer, right?
• 1:10:12
  Glen Erickson: She's not a female guitar player, she's just a guitar player.
• 1:10:16
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:10:17
  Glen Erickson: and so that's the translation to me, which is, I'm accustomed now to people not wanting someone to put that title and that tag on them.
• 1:10:26
  alexi: them in
• 1:10:27
  Glen Erickson: Right?
• 1:10:27
  alexi: Like you don't, like a lot of people
• 1:10:29
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:10:29
  alexi: from titles because then
• 1:10:31
  Glen Erickson: I.
• 1:10:31
  alexi: it's like if you like choose to not have a variable, like in a name that you choose, it's like as soon as that's what you're getting introduced as like I.
• 1:10:40
  alexi: It, it's gonna like come with assumptions and like, possibly like, it's the fear of like getting put in a box.
• 1:10:47
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:10:47
  Glen Erickson: But
• 1:10:48
  alexi: me in that box.
• 1:10:49
  alexi: Like that's the box I belong in.
• 1:10:50
  alexi: Maybe like
• 1:10:51
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 1:10:52
  Glen Erickson: Well, and that's why I had to ask'cause I wanted to understand what the choice was.
• 1:10:56
  Glen Erickson: 'cause it's clear that it was a choice and I just wasn't prepared for her to say, I.
• 1:11:02
  Glen Erickson: I'm reclaiming something for myself and, and my mom and my grandparents, right, who weren't, they weren't given that privilege because things were so difficult that the common choice was to hide it, or that they were, as she said, white presenting and they could get away with some privilege.
• 1:11:24
  Glen Erickson: And so they needed that and.
• 1:11:28
  Glen Erickson: So for her to be able to reclaim that, I just thought that was really beautiful and honestly my favorite part
• 1:11:32
  alexi: Well, and
• 1:11:33
  Glen Erickson: of the conversation.
• 1:11:34
  alexi: recognize that like she's in a place where she can like, choose to like celebrate it then just
• 1:11:41
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:11:41
  alexi: so openly and like, not be like, oh, well I wanna celebrate it for myself and like reclaim it, but be like, well, I wanna celebrate, like, the fact that it's like a generational thing.
• 1:11:49
  alexi: Like I think there's like
• 1:11:50
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:11:51
  alexi: a real beauty to that.
• 1:11:52
  Glen Erickson: and, and I get, this was a little bit, maybe not cool, but I, I referenced her as a young woman a few times and, and really, let's just admit it's because I'm twice her age, so, you know, like literally on the number.
• 1:12:05
  Glen Erickson: So.
• 1:12:06
  Glen Erickson: that leaks out sometimes, but, but just to be so well informed about her own culture, that there's no mistaking that for her to claim it or reclaim it, to celebrate it, as you said, doesn't, it's not with any version of, I don't understand what people have gone through to get to where I get to be.
• 1:12:26
  Glen Erickson: She fully understood that she was fully aware of it all.
• 1:12:29
  Glen Erickson: She was probably.
• 1:12:31
  Glen Erickson: Ironically, more informed and embracing of her version of privilege than most of the white dudes that I know
• 1:12:39
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:12:40
  Glen Erickson: of theirs.
• 1:12:41
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:12:41
  Glen Erickson: Um, which is pretty incredible.
• 1:12:43
  Glen Erickson: So all of that, you know, on top of the fact of just the music parts where she was owning the production and owning the different parts of the business that she enjoyed, and, and being able to take her career.
• 1:12:56
  Glen Erickson: In her music with that kind of similar,
• 1:12:59
  alexi: Yeah,
• 1:13:00
  Glen Erickson: knowledge and authenticity.
• 1:13:02
  Glen Erickson: So all of that was just really refreshing.
• 1:13:04
  Glen Erickson: So I just really enjoyed that.
• 1:13:06
  Glen Erickson: very powerful.
• 1:13:06
  Glen Erickson: And I am very excited for her.
• 1:13:08
  Glen Erickson: And I'm, you know, she has like a new fan in that way.
• 1:13:12
  Glen Erickson: Like I really wanna watch her career now and just see
• 1:13:15
  alexi: Or
• 1:13:16
  Glen Erickson: what things happen for her.
• 1:13:17
  Glen Erickson: And that to me is part of why I'm doing all of this too.
• 1:13:20
  Glen Erickson: So That's exciting.
• 1:13:22
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:13:22
  alexi: Okay.
• 1:13:23
  alexi: Well,
• 1:13:23
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:13:23
  alexi: for you then.
• 1:13:24
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:13:25
  alexi: That's, it's on topic, but it's not on topic to what we were talking about
• 1:13:29
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:13:29
  alexi: within her discussion.
• 1:13:30
  alexi: But first person that you've had on the podcast, and I'm gonna word this carefully, not that you don't have like a history with, but.
• 1:13:39
  alexi: First person, you didn't have a prior relationship established pre
• 1:13:44
  Glen Erickson: Well, a hundred percent.
• 1:13:45
  alexi: Right.
• 1:13:46
  alexi: Okay.
• 1:13:48
  alexi: put what were like
• 1:13:50
  Glen Erickson: I.
• 1:13:50
  alexi: some of the like things you found really good about that, and then what were some things that you like found maybe in the moment or now that you're reflecting that like maybe you were like, oh, like not so great about like that fact.
• 1:14:01
  alexi: If there were any, if there even were any, but
• 1:14:04
  Glen Erickson: Sure.
• 1:14:04
  Glen Erickson: I mean, let's, okay, so let's quickly just take your first premise a little further, which not only like I don't have history with,
• 1:14:13
  alexi: Uhhuh
• 1:14:13
  Glen Erickson: but there weren't even really any overlaps, right?
• 1:14:17
  Glen Erickson: So.
• 1:14:17
  Glen Erickson: I had no history with Kurt Dahl, the lawyer drummer, technically, but there were so many overlaps in our history.
• 1:14:23
  alexi: has some
• 1:14:24
  Glen Erickson: There was a lot of, there was.
• 1:14:26
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:14:27
  Glen Erickson: It's almost like there was still something there originally.
• 1:14:30
  Glen Erickson: Um, so you're right, you're right.
• 1:14:32
  Glen Erickson: So this is like a 0%.
• 1:14:35
  Glen Erickson: So, so what was, what was the pros of that?
• 1:14:38
  Glen Erickson: Um.
• 1:14:39
  Glen Erickson: The pros of that is that it forced me to do a little more research on somebody, which is something I really like to do and I wanted to be able to do, and doing research on somebody in their career and being able to dig helps me.
• 1:14:54
  Glen Erickson: I don't know.
• 1:14:54
  Glen Erickson: I look for a picture I like.
• 1:14:56
  Glen Erickson: Right?
• 1:14:57
  Glen Erickson: From the very first episode with Dan,
• 1:14:59
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:14:59
  Glen Erickson: I was so focused on being able to see what the story is.
• 1:15:04
  Glen Erickson: Where's the arc?
• 1:15:05
  Glen Erickson: Like what's the thread like?
• 1:15:06
  Glen Erickson: You can.
• 1:15:07
  Glen Erickson: Look so often at people's just singular moments like this really happened for them and this really happened for them.
• 1:15:14
  Glen Erickson: But to look at the picture as a whole, and maybe I hadn't, I had gotten a little, I'm not gonna say I got lazy with a few of the recent guests, but I didn't have to work as hard.
• 1:15:24
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:15:25
  Glen Erickson: So I'd say the pro is that it maybe work a little bit harder.
• 1:15:30
  Glen Erickson: And then you're a little, there's just a different sort of connect energy in a conversation when I'm trying to be on my toes.
• 1:15:39
  Glen Erickson: I don't know how, how to put it.
• 1:15:40
  Glen Erickson: So that's a pro for sure.
• 1:15:41
  Glen Erickson: So what's the con of having absolutely zero connection or any of that kind of stuff?
• 1:15:47
  Glen Erickson: it's really flipping the coin, I think from what I just said, is, I tend to be, I rely heavily on relational, like empathy and, kindness and really wanting to draw the best out of somebody.
• 1:16:04
  Glen Erickson: And that's very easy for me to do if I've already established some premise of that.
• 1:16:09
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:16:10
  Glen Erickson: the con of doing just a straight interview as if I was a part of the media with somebody, to this degree compared to the others.
• 1:16:18
  Glen Erickson: Is that I being rather transparent here, I can be left feeling like I'm floundering a little bit and, and I have to keep the voices outta my head that are trying to tell me like, maybe you're not doing a very good job of this.
• 1:16:33
  Glen Erickson: Like, literally in the moment.
• 1:16:35
  Glen Erickson: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:16:36
  Glen Erickson: Um, so the cons are that, The con, well, maybe it's a pro and someone could easily tell me it was a pro, but, um, just being kinda ripped out of a comfort zone, um, is a little bit challenging, but it gives me a respect for sure.
• 1:16:52
  Glen Erickson: Always.
• 1:16:53
  Glen Erickson: I've always had that kind of respect.
• 1:16:54
  Glen Erickson: But, but you know, me, I like meeting new people and I like getting into a real conversation.
• 1:17:01
  Glen Erickson: I'm not really a small talk guy, so,
• 1:17:03
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:17:04
  Glen Erickson: so I felt like I.
• 1:17:05
  Glen Erickson: Wasn't concerned.
• 1:17:06
  Glen Erickson: I didn't mind navigating that,
• 1:17:08
  alexi: Were you
• 1:17:08
  Glen Erickson: but
• 1:17:09
  alexi: all that like it might have been awkward?
• 1:17:11
  alexi: That
• 1:17:11
  Glen Erickson: a hundred, yeah.
• 1:17:13
  alexi: 'cause sometimes it's not often and, there's times in my life where I've met someone, and this is like not in a group setting, I'm saying like, it's like you meet someone, like at work, like you're left one-on-one with someone new or like just you like sit beside someone you don't know kind of thing.
• 1:17:28
  alexi: And sometimes I leave.
• 1:17:30
  alexi: A situation and I'm like, wow.
• 1:17:31
  alexi: Like that was not my best work.
• 1:17:33
  alexi: Like I was kind of awkward.
• 1:17:34
  alexi: Like that was a little bit strange of me.
• 1:17:36
  alexi: I didn't mean to say this thing.
• 1:17:38
  alexi: I like say things I don't usually say like, I wasn't like myself like, or like the other person was awkward.
• 1:17:44
  alexi: And then you walk away and you're like, was that me?
• 1:17:46
  alexi: Or like, like that was so strange.
• 1:17:49
  alexi: Like I feel like I'd be
• 1:17:50
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 1:17:51
  alexi: would be the case.
• 1:17:52
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 1:17:53
  Glen Erickson: And honestly, there was a period in my life when I was younger, but maybe not that far ago for a large part of my life, I was just so performative about feeling like I had to get some version of approval.
• 1:18:06
  Glen Erickson: I.
• 1:18:06
  Glen Erickson: From people.
• 1:18:07
  Glen Erickson: Like, not in a weird way like that.
• 1:18:10
  Glen Erickson: It's just, you know, you kinda, I had a pretty good track record of feeling like I could make people like me.
• 1:18:15
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:18:16
  Glen Erickson: Um, just full transparency.
• 1:18:19
  Glen Erickson: So I got a little bit good at being over, uh, in those cases, but I, I'm less like that now and I especially don't want to be like that in the podcast, you know?
• 1:18:29
  Glen Erickson: If I can be fully transparent, I think.
• 1:18:32
  Glen Erickson: The part that I'm worried about of being awkward is that, and this ties back to me having a lot of people that I knew and could build, I had, uh, I had a foundation of that empathetic relationship already.
• 1:18:44
  Glen Erickson: I don't have that with her.
• 1:18:46
  Glen Erickson: she's, again, half my age, female.
• 1:18:50
  Glen Erickson: In the industry who's encountering a lot of gatekeepers who look like me, who are cis white males, older men,
• 1:18:58
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:18:59
  Glen Erickson: I'm, so, I guess, I'm so sensitive to that now and what that feels like.
• 1:19:05
  Glen Erickson: So I actually.
• 1:19:07
  Glen Erickson: I actually had a couple of minutes conversation with her before the recording once we got on just to introduce myself and to talk for a couple minutes, and I even told her that I'm aware that I represent what can potentially, because I don't know her history be a challenging conversation,
• 1:19:25
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:19:25
  Glen Erickson: so I just wanted to know who I was and where I was coming from and what my goals of my questions are, and that I just really wanted.
• 1:19:32
  Glen Erickson: To give her a chance to tell whatever stories she wanted.
• 1:19:35
  Glen Erickson: And,
• 1:19:36
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:19:36
  Glen Erickson: and I want to draw the best things out of what's happening in her life right now.
• 1:19:39
  Glen Erickson: So, so that actually happened at the start because I guess rooted back to your entire point of questioning,'cause I was a little concerned,
• 1:19:47
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:19:48
  Glen Erickson: about what you know about.
• 1:19:49
  Glen Erickson: It being awkward or something.
• 1:19:51
  Glen Erickson: I got lots.
• 1:19:52
  Glen Erickson: I got lots to learn.
• 1:19:53
  Glen Erickson: I've got so much to learn doing this kind of stuff, so it's fine.
• 1:19:56
  Glen Erickson: But this was a great, this was a great learning
• 1:19:58
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:19:58
  Glen Erickson: for me.
• 1:19:59
  Glen Erickson: Like he said, like first zero, zero base.
• 1:20:02
  Glen Erickson: So,
• 1:20:02
  alexi: Well, I'm glad it went so great.
• 1:20:04
  Glen Erickson: okay.
• 1:20:05
  Glen Erickson: Well your mom wishes that I let you talk more on these, and now you ask me a question and make me talk a whole bunch.
• 1:20:10
  Glen Erickson: So she's still gonna be on.
• 1:20:12
  alexi: I was talking so much so I was like, okay, I need to ask another
• 1:20:15
  Glen Erickson: You've never been talking more than me, but, um,
• 1:20:19
  alexi: Anyone who knows me knows I get on tangents.
• 1:20:21
  Glen Erickson: okay.
• 1:20:22
  Glen Erickson: Well someday we'll have some version of a comment section and then we'll actually know what other people think, rather than just getting your mom's feedback,
• 1:20:30
  alexi: be a poll
• 1:20:31
  Glen Erickson: but.
• 1:20:32
  alexi: more.
• 1:20:32
  Glen Erickson: Maybe, but bless, you'll fill in the poll yourself.
• 1:20:35
  Glen Erickson: Uh, but ble bless her heart for listening to all the episodes, so I don't want to complain.
• 1:20:40
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:20:41
  Glen Erickson: But yeah,
• 1:20:41
  alexi: What a
• 1:20:42
  Glen Erickson: that's it.
• 1:20:42
  Glen Erickson: That's all.
• 1:20:43
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:20:44
  Glen Erickson: You're sweet.
• 1:20:44
  Glen Erickson: Thank you so much for doing this and asking me questions that I like to answer.
• 1:20:49
  alexi: Oh, I like hearing the answers, so
• 1:20:50
  Glen Erickson: Okay?
• 1:20:51
  alexi: me.
• 1:20:51
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:20:52
  Glen Erickson: Best of luck.
• 1:20:53
  Glen Erickson: I'll see you early in the morning for the gym.
• 1:20:55
  alexi: Early in the morning.
• 1:20:56
  alexi: Okay.
• 1:20:56
  alexi: Bye.
• 1:20:56
  alexi: Love you.
• 1:20:57
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:20:57
  Glen Erickson: Bye.
• 1:20:58
  Glen Erickson: Love you.