Latest / Foul Territory / Manager money plunging + A-Rod attacks Yankees hitting philosophy

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Manager money plunging + A-Rod attacks Yankees hitting philosophy · Foul Territory

0:04
Speaker 1: Alex Rodriguez did not end his relationship with the Yankees
0:07
Speaker 1: on a high note. Lots of turbulence throughout that one,
0:11
Speaker 1: and he is taking it out on them.
0:13
Speaker 2: Is he right or wrong?
0:13
Speaker 3: Though?
0:14
Speaker 2: And that's what we're going to go through right now.
0:16
Speaker 1: So he made an appearance on New York radio WFAN
0:19
Speaker 1: a few days ago, and he essentially said that the
0:23
Speaker 1: hitting philosophy for the Yankees is absolutely broken. That's a quote,
0:27
Speaker 1: absolutely broken, and he was referring to Anthony Volpi as
0:31
Speaker 1: an example. I'll read the quote and then we'll get reactions.
0:33
Speaker 1: Here A Rod said, Vulpi really is an incredible young
0:37
Speaker 1: man with a great family, and the organization has fallen
0:39
Speaker 1: in love with him.
0:40
Speaker 2: But at some point the numbers don't lie.
0:42
Speaker 4: Right.
0:42
Speaker 1: You have one hundred and sixty seven strikeouts rookie season,
0:44
Speaker 1: one fifty six, twenty twenty four, one fifty last season.
0:47
Speaker 2: That's his first three years. And here's a young man.
0:49
Speaker 1: That the biggest way he can impact winning is with
0:52
Speaker 1: his number one tool, and that's his legs.
0:54
Speaker 2: But we've taken his legs away.
0:56
Speaker 1: And by what I mean by that is, here's a
0:58
Speaker 1: young man who has stolen over fifty bases in the
1:00
Speaker 1: minor leagues. He sold eighteen last year, and it's hard
1:03
Speaker 1: to impact winning teams when you're striking out one hundred
1:06
Speaker 1: and fifty times and you're hitting two twelve A rod continues,
1:09
Speaker 1: So I think if you zoom out, it's an organization
1:12
Speaker 1: hitting philosophy that is absolutely broken, and until they fix it,
1:16
Speaker 1: I don't think they win big. I remember Volpi had
1:19
Speaker 1: offseason surgery now for a partial tear in his left shoulder.
1:23
Speaker 2: He played the whole year, apparently he was dealing with that.
1:26
Speaker 1: Since May, sounds like Caberra is going to be the
1:28
Speaker 1: starting shortstop until Volpi returns. But do you think KP
1:34
Speaker 1: that there is a problem here with how they have
1:36
Speaker 1: developed a young man who was one of the top
1:39
Speaker 1: prospects in the sport and has essentially put up the
1:42
Speaker 1: same numbers on offense over the first three seasons of
1:45
Speaker 1: his career.
1:46
Speaker 5: Sure, sure, I mean I'd like to defer to Crassy
1:50
Speaker 5: because he played for the organization, and I know, you
1:53
Speaker 5: know there's been some change in you know, hitting coaches,
1:57
Speaker 5: probably since you've been there, But I don't know anything about.
1:59
Speaker 6: The yank He's hitting philosophy.
2:01
Speaker 5: So I wish you would have potentially, you know, maybe
2:04
Speaker 5: given some context. So what that hitting philosophy is, you know,
2:07
Speaker 5: I could speak on the teams that I played for,
2:10
Speaker 5: the hitting coaches that I played for, the Toronto Blue Jays,
2:12
Speaker 5: who I spent a lot of time with, and it's
2:15
Speaker 5: been kind of public knowledge kind of what their hitting
2:17
Speaker 5: philosophy is. I don't know anything about the Yankees hitting philosophy.
2:21
Speaker 5: I know Aaron Judges hitting philosophy because you know his
2:25
Speaker 5: hitting coaches outside hitting coaches, you know, the most talked
2:28
Speaker 5: about hitting coach in the game. But I don't really
2:31
Speaker 5: know anything about it. But if you look at the
2:33
Speaker 5: numbers and what a Rod is saying, I don't totally
2:37
Speaker 5: disagree with what he's saying. But at the end of
2:39
Speaker 5: the day, it's also hard for someone who's been retired
2:42
Speaker 5: out of the game, out of the organization to kind
2:44
Speaker 5: of point figures at the organization.
2:47
Speaker 6: Some of it has to, you know, fall in the
2:50
Speaker 6: back of the player.
2:51
Speaker 5: You know, if I'm Anthony Vulpi and I understand my
2:53
Speaker 5: strength as a guy who can get on base and
2:55
Speaker 5: could run and steal bases, I have to figure out
2:58
Speaker 5: a way to strike out less. But it's hard for
3:00
Speaker 5: me to say that their organizational philosophy is broken when
3:03
Speaker 5: I don't even know what it is.
3:06
Speaker 7: As a player, you're always looking to improve. As an organization,
3:10
Speaker 7: you're always looking for your players to improve. For Ay
3:13
Speaker 7: Rod to say this without having spent a day in
3:16
Speaker 7: the cage with Anthony Volpi or even a week during
3:20
Speaker 7: the season with him, I feel like it's kind of
3:23
Speaker 7: I feel like it's kind of weak. I feel like
3:24
Speaker 7: it is a weak comment because you want him to
3:28
Speaker 7: decrease his strikeouts. Okay, he went one sixty seven, one
3:31
Speaker 7: fifty six. I'm sure that's going down to one fifty
3:36
Speaker 7: Do you want him to drop it by fifty strikeouts?
3:39
Speaker 7: Look across the game, who's doing that? Nobody's doing that? Okay,
3:43
Speaker 7: So to me, he's making small incremental changes that haven't
3:49
Speaker 7: happened to the extent that maybe a player like a
3:54
Speaker 7: Rod thinks they should be made. It's not quite as
3:56
Speaker 7: easy to naturally change your production at the plate as
4:00
Speaker 7: some people think it is. He's still twenty four years old.
4:04
Speaker 7: I went through a bunch of different numbers and my
4:08
Speaker 7: cop for him, and I had this backed up by
4:11
Speaker 7: a scout, a big league scout in Major League baseball,
4:17
Speaker 7: and he agreed with me. Dansby Swanson. You look at
4:21
Speaker 7: Dansby Swanson. Everybody knows who Dansby Swanson is now He's
4:24
Speaker 7: won two gold Gloves later in his career, but his
4:28
Speaker 7: first three years very arguably, Volpi has had better years.
4:33
Speaker 7: He's had more power, he's stolen way more bases, and
4:37
Speaker 7: he already has a goal glove that Dansby took six years,
4:41
Speaker 7: I think five or six years to get. I think
4:43
Speaker 7: Dansby Swanson's a great player. I saw Dansby Swanson early
4:46
Speaker 7: in his career, playing shortstop at a young age of
4:50
Speaker 7: twenty two years old and learning to hit in the
4:54
Speaker 7: big leagues. Sometimes that's what it takes. It takes time
4:58
Speaker 7: to learn to hit in the big leagues. Is this
5:00
Speaker 7: a big year for Volpi? Absolutely? Do I think he
5:04
Speaker 7: took a step back last year. No, I don't, because
5:08
Speaker 7: nobody knows how bad the shoulder was. I talked to
5:11
Speaker 7: some people that were on the big league team, and
5:14
Speaker 7: he was playing with it the whole time, and he
5:17
Speaker 7: didn't really have a dip in his production. He essentially
5:21
Speaker 7: has stayed the same. So if he was playing through
5:23
Speaker 7: an injury, to me, maybe that's a little bit of
5:25
Speaker 7: an improvement.
5:27
Speaker 3: This is a big year.
5:28
Speaker 7: His fourth year was when Dansby Swanson took that next step.
5:32
Speaker 7: I think Volpi's ceiling could be higher than Dansby Swanson's.
5:36
Speaker 7: And I don't think it's all titled to strikeouts. To me,
5:40
Speaker 7: I think it's the consistency to reach his peak, to
5:45
Speaker 7: reach his top ability. Because you look back at twenty
5:48
Speaker 7: twenty four in the playoffs, he was lights out. He
5:52
Speaker 7: wasn't the guy in the lineup that everyone was worried about,
5:56
Speaker 7: but he showed spurts of hitting really well against quality,
5:59
Speaker 7: quality pitching, which you're always seeing in the playoffs. So
6:02
Speaker 7: how can he take an entire season and really, for me,
6:09
Speaker 7: mitigate those low times, mitigate those oh for nineteens, those
6:14
Speaker 7: one for thirty ones where he almost looks lost. I
6:18
Speaker 7: don't know what that is. I'm not in there with
6:20
Speaker 7: his work every day. You know what, KP, you might
6:23
Speaker 7: be a different type of hitter than I was. If
6:25
Speaker 7: somebody's constantly in my ear, you got to change this,
6:28
Speaker 7: change that, change this, change that, change this. You're gonna
6:31
Speaker 7: be cooked. But some guys are like, oh, I gotta
6:34
Speaker 7: always be changing. I remember Josh Bell He's a hitter
6:37
Speaker 7: that's gone ups and downs, ups and downs. He's always
6:39
Speaker 7: changing his stance everything, Like some guys just need to
6:43
Speaker 7: stick with one thing and go get it. I don't
6:45
Speaker 7: think Anthony Volpie is as bad as the New York media,
6:48
Speaker 7: new York fans, and a Rod in this situation is saying.
6:53
Speaker 7: I think he is at a situation. He's at a
6:55
Speaker 7: turning point in his career. Is he going to be
6:57
Speaker 7: a two hundred million dollars shortstop or one hundred and
6:59
Speaker 7: six million dollars shortstop or is he going to be
7:02
Speaker 7: a guy that kind of flounders around in the big
7:05
Speaker 7: leagues and makes a nice comeback from his shoulder.
7:07
Speaker 3: Surgery that he had this offseason, it's not going to
7:10
Speaker 3: be easy.
7:11
Speaker 5: As you were talking about it, I started thinking about
7:14
Speaker 5: someone that I know really well in myself. You know,
7:17
Speaker 5: obviously I didn't come up as young as he did.
7:20
Speaker 5: But I think what people need to understand is Anthony
7:23
Speaker 5: Volpi came.
7:24
Speaker 6: Up as a positional need for the New York Yankees.
7:26
Speaker 5: They knew that his glove was ready, and he went
7:29
Speaker 5: out and proved that he can play elite shortstop in
7:31
Speaker 5: the biggest market in baseball.
7:33
Speaker 6: And sometimes you.
7:34
Speaker 5: Get caught up in that as a player, much like
7:37
Speaker 5: I did. I had a little bit more success with
7:39
Speaker 5: the bat early on in my career than Anthony Volpi is,
7:44
Speaker 5: but we're also two different types of hitters. I had
7:46
Speaker 5: the you know, god given ability to just put the
7:49
Speaker 5: ball in play, and I hate it striking out, so
7:51
Speaker 5: that was never a thing. But you talk about those
7:53
Speaker 5: over nineteens or those over thirty ones, when you don't
7:56
Speaker 5: have good plate discipline and you don't have the elite
7:59
Speaker 5: hand eye coordination just put the ball in play or
8:01
Speaker 5: the willingness to just put the ball and play, you
8:03
Speaker 5: go through these extended periods of time without getting on base.
8:06
Speaker 5: So he's much like to your point, he's had a
8:10
Speaker 5: turning point in his career and maybe a little bit
8:12
Speaker 5: of time away from the team rehaving his shoulder. He'll
8:17
Speaker 5: be able to fix this. But I got caught up
8:19
Speaker 5: so much in the situation early on in my career
8:22
Speaker 5: that I was only here to play defense. That you know,
8:25
Speaker 5: not to say I didn't work in the cage, but
8:26
Speaker 5: I didn't value it as much because all they ever
8:30
Speaker 5: told me was just go play defense, Go play defense,
8:32
Speaker 5: go play defense. And I had to take it upon
8:34
Speaker 5: myself to go outside of the team during the offseason
8:38
Speaker 5: and go find different hitting coaches and find different things,
8:41
Speaker 5: and go do different research to try to improve myself
8:44
Speaker 5: on my own. And my last point, a guy like
8:47
Speaker 5: a rod who is able to, you know, go publicly
8:52
Speaker 5: and make these conversations what he should have done if
8:54
Speaker 5: he can call Anthony Volpi and he can fly him
8:57
Speaker 5: out to Miami and go work with him or fly
8:59
Speaker 5: to him or do whatever he wants, and if he
9:01
Speaker 5: believes that he's someone that could help him and help
9:03
Speaker 5: the organization.
9:04
Speaker 6: People do that all the time.
9:06
Speaker 5: It's no disrespect to the people that they have in
9:08
Speaker 5: their organization. But in the offseason, you were free. You
9:11
Speaker 5: were pretty much a free agent in terms of whoever
9:14
Speaker 5: the hell you want to go see. Hitting wise, a
9:16
Speaker 5: Rak could have been that guy for Volby, but instead
9:18
Speaker 5: he decided to kind of publicly shit on him. And
9:21
Speaker 5: if I'm Anthony Voldby, I don't know if I'm picking
9:23
Speaker 5: up that phone call. And you know, my last point
9:26
Speaker 5: is it's very difficult for a player of Alex Rodriguez's caliber.
9:32
Speaker 5: And I haven't really played with anyone of an Alex
9:35
Speaker 5: rodriguezz caliber. But I've played with guys that were at
9:37
Speaker 5: MVPs that names are retired in the stadiums that they
9:41
Speaker 5: played in, and it was always a tough conversation for
9:44
Speaker 5: them to relate to me. They had no idea how
9:46
Speaker 5: difficult baseball was for me. Yes, we play on the
9:49
Speaker 5: same field, but their skill set was so much greater
9:52
Speaker 5: than mine. The game came so much easier to them.
9:55
Speaker 5: So when I would struggle, where I would ask these
9:57
Speaker 5: questions or how do I do this, it's hard for
10:00
Speaker 5: them to relate. When you have a guy of Anthony
10:02
Speaker 5: Volpi's skill set and talent and a guy like a Rod's,
10:06
Speaker 5: it's a really hard conversation to have. That's why I
10:09
Speaker 5: feel like some of the best hitting coaches that I've
10:11
Speaker 5: had in the game were not the best players. They're
10:13
Speaker 5: just very relatable. They can understand, you know, guys like
10:17
Speaker 5: me that go through extended periods of you know, struggles
10:20
Speaker 5: in their career, how it's relatable.
10:23
Speaker 7: That is so true, and that's why some superstars don't
10:26
Speaker 7: ever make good managers because or or even good hitting coaches.
10:30
Speaker 7: I had a hitting coach one time that was like,
10:32
Speaker 7: he hit three hundred in the Big leagues, and he
10:34
Speaker 7: was like, you.
10:35
Speaker 8: Know, when you see the ball away, you just you
10:38
Speaker 8: just take that ball and you justed go bayam and
10:40
Speaker 8: you hit the right field. And then when they throw
10:42
Speaker 8: one in, you just go bam and you hit the
10:44
Speaker 8: left field. And sometimes they'll throw the breaking ball to
10:47
Speaker 8: you and go you just you just wait for it
10:49
Speaker 8: a little bit longer, just go bam right up the middle.
10:51
Speaker 7: And you're like, what, I can't even do that off
10:54
Speaker 7: the machine. So yeah, you're exactly right. My one last
10:58
Speaker 7: my one last point is for all you war people
11:01
Speaker 7: out there, in Volpi's first three years, even if he
11:06
Speaker 7: has a great had no idea what he's gonna do
11:09
Speaker 7: this year compared to Dansby Swanson, because I feel like
11:12
Speaker 7: it's a good comparison. Maybe people will disagree with me,
11:15
Speaker 7: but in his first three years he already has a
11:18
Speaker 7: higher war, a higher wins above replacement than Dansby Swanson
11:23
Speaker 7: did does through his first four years. Dancy Swanson had
11:26
Speaker 7: a four point four point two war in his first
11:31
Speaker 7: year based on in his first four years based on
11:35
Speaker 7: wins above replacement based on a Baseball references war, and
11:40
Speaker 7: Volpi already has accumulated a eight point three War. I
11:45
Speaker 7: know War's not everything, and I know Yankee fans are
11:48
Speaker 7: gonna clap back at me, but I want you to
11:50
Speaker 7: truly step back and look at other guys, not Derek Jeter. Sorry,
11:54
Speaker 7: don't compare the greatest shortstop of your organization's history to
11:59
Speaker 7: Anthony Va. Compare equal to equal players, and maybe get
12:05
Speaker 7: behind your guy just a little bit, because I think
12:08
Speaker 7: he's better than everybody gives him credit for.
12:13
Speaker 2: Neil and the jack goes.
12:14
Speaker 1: Did you just say, all you poor people out there,
12:16
Speaker 1: no war Wart wins upupp replacement war.
12:22
Speaker 3: I gotta uni any better war w a replacements.
12:28
Speaker 2: He might have been cracking a joke and it worked.
12:31
Speaker 6: He was. He was talking to you guys, to the poor.
12:33
Speaker 1: People too, all you poor people out there, and listen up.
12:39
Speaker 1: If million dollar contract, ask someone else.
12:43
Speaker 7: Compared to you, I'm one of the poor people, kp okay.
12:46
Speaker 5: Hey, And that's much to the point. Compared to a
12:49
Speaker 5: rod I'm very poor too. So like there is skills
12:52
Speaker 5: in this thing, you know, there's there's financial skills, there's
12:55
Speaker 5: talent scales, And I don't think the average person understands
12:59
Speaker 5: the difference between the best players in the clubhouse and
13:02
Speaker 5: me and Eric Kratz is exponential.
13:07
Speaker 1: My one point from everything that you guys said that
13:10
Speaker 1: I want to bounce back with is it appears as
13:15
Speaker 1: if a Rod used Volpia as the example, but he
13:17
Speaker 1: was trying to make a greater point about the development
13:20
Speaker 1: process with the Yankees, So that part is valid. There
13:25
Speaker 1: hasn't been the development from the Yankees like there has been, say,
13:29
Speaker 1: from the Dodgers over the past ten to fifteen years.
13:34
Speaker 5: Okay, that's fair, who that's fair, But I'm also thinking
13:36
Speaker 5: about the Yankees are have historically not historically most recently,
13:41
Speaker 5: I mean, aside from Aaron Judge is homegrown, but they're
13:45
Speaker 5: usually going out and acquiring players or signing players, so
13:49
Speaker 5: there's not a ton of player development going on. When
13:52
Speaker 5: you finally have one of your own and he comes up,
13:54
Speaker 5: and to Crad's point, he's an eight war player in
13:57
Speaker 5: his first four years, is pretty good. He hasn't maybe
14:01
Speaker 5: made the adjustments needed to be the offensive player they
14:05
Speaker 5: think he can be. But you know, the Dodgers have
14:08
Speaker 5: always done a really good job of Yes, they go
14:10
Speaker 5: out and get the best players too, but they always
14:13
Speaker 5: kind of leave a couple holes on their roster for
14:15
Speaker 5: you know players to kind of come up and develop.
14:18
Speaker 5: So I mean, yeah, maybe that point is accurate that
14:20
Speaker 5: there could be a little bit more player development going on,
14:22
Speaker 5: but it never feels like you see those guys get to.
14:26
Speaker 6: The big leagues with the Yankees.
14:28
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
14:29
Speaker 4: I think.
14:29
Speaker 1: I mean that's part of the point. The development process
14:32
Speaker 1: there is not producing stars. Why that's unfaircrats. I'm not
14:37
Speaker 1: saying they're bad at it. I'm just saying they're not
14:39
Speaker 1: a lead at it. They're not a lead at.
14:41
Speaker 7: It, okay, but they're elite enough for teams to trade
14:45
Speaker 7: for their pitching prospects. I think they make their I
14:47
Speaker 7: think they make their pitching prospects available to be able
14:50
Speaker 7: to get Awan Soto to be able to trade for
14:53
Speaker 7: the guys like they're not afraid, are they are they
14:56
Speaker 7: calling them up to the big leagues? I mean, last year,
14:58
Speaker 7: who are two of the best hitters in that lineup,
15:01
Speaker 7: Aaron Judge and Ben Rice. People are gonna say you
15:04
Speaker 7: could use their Judge because he's I know that's the
15:08
Speaker 7: narrative and I know that the you know, we got
15:12
Speaker 7: kind of roasted before because of some of the stuff
15:14
Speaker 7: that we had said.
15:15
Speaker 3: But it can be discussion.
15:20
Speaker 1: What did we get roasted for two years ago when
15:23
Speaker 1: we had a former Yankees minor leaguer on who said
15:26
Speaker 1: stuff was messed up, and then half the current team
15:29
Speaker 1: sent in messages agree. I don't think there was anything
15:33
Speaker 1: wrong with that. I think they've made changes since then,
15:35
Speaker 1: and the best organizations evolve every year, right, the best
15:38
Speaker 1: organizations take feedback from players, and they incorporated into what
15:42
Speaker 1: they do. I think part of there was a time
15:45
Speaker 1: period where the Yankees were valuing certain metrics more than
15:50
Speaker 1: other teams, and that overhyped some of their prospects.
15:54
Speaker 2: We've gone over this before, right.
15:57
Speaker 1: And many of those guys didn't end up panning out out.
16:01
Speaker 1: You want to talk about a bad trade with the Rays,
16:03
Speaker 1: there have been many bad trades made with other teams
16:05
Speaker 1: in the Yankees where Cashman's ripped them off and he's
16:07
Speaker 1: done a nice job and those prospects ended up being nothing.
16:11
Speaker 1: I mean, there are a lot of them. We could
16:12
Speaker 1: do a whole segment on probably ten trades over the
16:15
Speaker 1: past ten years where you're like, Wow, look who they got.
16:17
Speaker 1: They gave up nothing nothing. They're one of the kings
16:21
Speaker 1: of that, and that's part of the game too. Isn't
16:23
Speaker 1: that did a nice job.
16:25
Speaker 3: Isn't that right?
16:25
Speaker 7: Isn't that what you're supposed to do is an organization
16:29
Speaker 7: teams that want to win. I think the biggest thing
16:31
Speaker 7: with the Yankees is fans see all the banners in
16:36
Speaker 7: the rafters, and I think the gap used to be
16:39
Speaker 7: like this with the Yankees. I think they were innovative ahead.
16:43
Speaker 7: I don't think they necessarily have a broken system. I
16:47
Speaker 7: just think the gap is like this now. I think
16:50
Speaker 7: they are a playoff team that needs to be able
16:53
Speaker 7: to find that value around the edges because the other
16:56
Speaker 7: teams have closed that gap. The you know, their their
17:00
Speaker 7: analytics system has been the gap has been closed. They're
17:04
Speaker 7: finding value and I think maybe there's been times when
17:07
Speaker 7: they've gone out and said, we want everybody that hits
17:12
Speaker 7: the ball the hardest, and that's all we're gonna go for.
17:14
Speaker 7: So I think during that time period, you know, when
17:16
Speaker 7: you when you picked up Joey Gallo and then they
17:19
Speaker 7: you know, they had already gotten gian Carlos Stanton and
17:21
Speaker 7: they had judge like they just had all the guys
17:24
Speaker 7: that hit the ball the hardest. I think they've started
17:27
Speaker 7: to realize they need a Cody Bellinger, that's gonna be
17:29
Speaker 7: able to play first base, center field. They need to
17:32
Speaker 7: keep Aaron Judge in right field because that's where his
17:35
Speaker 7: value is. And there's so I think they're making adjustments.
17:38
Speaker 7: I just think the gap has changed, and that's why
17:41
Speaker 7: you're not gonna see teams consistently win like they won
17:46
Speaker 7: in the late nineties early two thousands.
17:48
Speaker 6: Let me let me ask you.
17:49
Speaker 5: Something about I was thinking about Trent Grisham the year
17:53
Speaker 5: before Awful Year. I know he didn't play that much,
17:55
Speaker 5: but then he went out and had the type of
17:57
Speaker 5: year he had.
17:57
Speaker 6: Is that more about.
17:59
Speaker 5: Christian going out and making the adjustments or is that
18:02
Speaker 5: something internally that the Yankees were able to do Because
18:05
Speaker 5: it's easy to talk about, you know, the players that
18:07
Speaker 5: they didn't help, but maybe they helped the guy like
18:09
Speaker 5: Trent Grisham.
18:10
Speaker 6: And you know, some of it could be on Anthony Volbe.
18:12
Speaker 6: Maybe he's not listening. I don't know.
18:14
Speaker 5: I've never been in that clubhouse. I've never been in
18:16
Speaker 5: that organization, so I don't really know. But I thought
18:19
Speaker 5: that was kind of a good point. And lastly, to
18:21
Speaker 5: your point, also, the financial gaps.
18:24
Speaker 6: Decreased a lot.
18:25
Speaker 5: The Yankees used to be able to go out and
18:27
Speaker 5: spend way more than everyone else. That gap is shrunk
18:29
Speaker 5: significantly too.
18:32
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't know what the exact number is, but
18:34
Speaker 1: there was a point where they were probably what ten, fifteen,
18:38
Speaker 1: maybe even sometimes twenty percent above everyone else. They're not
18:41
Speaker 1: even close to that anymore, not even close. I mean
18:45
Speaker 1: they're not even.
18:45
Speaker 2: At the top.
18:46
Speaker 1: They're close, they're usually top five ish, but they're not
18:51
Speaker 1: spending as much. You know, they're not spending way more
18:54
Speaker 1: than the top team. And off the field, they will
18:56
Speaker 1: do everything they can, but they're not the only ones.
18:58
Speaker 1: There's even small market teas that are smart and can
19:01
Speaker 1: spend on that front. Right, you can spend a few
19:03
Speaker 1: million bucks on the development side and it makes a
19:05
Speaker 1: huge difference.
19:06
Speaker 2: So it's great topic.
19:08
Speaker 1: But thanks to a Rod for blasting them and giving
19:10
Speaker 1: us a good fifteen minutes here to chop it up.
19:23
Speaker 1: Interesting thought piece from Jeff Passon labeled why manager salaries
19:28
Speaker 1: lag behind other coaches And don't get lost in how
19:31
Speaker 1: much money there is in sports, because that would be
19:35
Speaker 1: I would say, waste of time and not what we're
19:37
Speaker 1: going for here. Just comparison's sake. Okay, so you have
19:40
Speaker 1: back to back Manager of the Year champs and Steven
19:43
Speaker 1: Vote and in Pat Murphy, and it looked at one
19:46
Speaker 1: point like this past season they were going into the
19:48
Speaker 1: year with two year deals left right. And you look
19:52
Speaker 1: at any other sport and you're like, if you've got
19:54
Speaker 1: coach of the Year going back to back, I mean,
19:57
Speaker 1: they're locking them up for a long ass time, and
19:59
Speaker 1: we're not even gonna get it to the college game,
20:01
Speaker 1: right with college basketball college football. But AJ just looking
20:05
Speaker 1: for example at MLB, Craig Council leaves the Brewers, they
20:09
Speaker 1: kind of let him hang and then he gets to
20:11
Speaker 1: free agency five years, forty million bucks.
20:13
Speaker 2: And that was like, WHOA shocked the sport.
20:16
Speaker 1: And then Dave Roberts is now above him in terms
20:18
Speaker 1: of average annual value but not overall deal eight point
20:21
Speaker 1: one mill so he just beat his eight million dollar average.
20:24
Speaker 1: The highest paid coach in the NFL is Andy Reid.
20:27
Speaker 1: He makes twenty million dollars, NFL, bigger league, more revenue. Cool,
20:31
Speaker 1: I get it. Highest paid in the NBA Steve Kerr
20:35
Speaker 1: seventeen and a half million dollars. We have nine new
20:39
Speaker 1: manager hires, and Jeff Passon in this article reported that
20:42
Speaker 1: there's multiple in like the one million dollar range. So again,
20:45
Speaker 1: real life money fantastic, but in sports purposes in terms
20:48
Speaker 1: of how much revenue you're allocating towards this what's going on?
20:53
Speaker 4: You want the truth, what's going on. They don't have
20:56
Speaker 4: to pay them, so they know that they.
20:58
Speaker 9: Know they don't have to pay him, because there's people
21:00
Speaker 9: that will just take the job no matter what. And
21:02
Speaker 9: even the guys, and they don't value managers like they managed.
21:06
Speaker 9: They value coaches in the NBA, the NFL, college basketball,
21:10
Speaker 9: college football. They don't value why because the GM and
21:13
Speaker 9: the president of baseball ops are making all the money
21:16
Speaker 9: and they tell everybody that they're so smart and we
21:18
Speaker 9: don't really need a manager. Anybody can manage the team, right,
21:22
Speaker 9: So we can just stick anybody out.
21:24
Speaker 4: There and they can do it.
21:25
Speaker 9: So and plus we can get a guy for a
21:27
Speaker 9: million bucks, right because who are these new managers will
21:30
Speaker 9: take it just to say they managed in the big leagues.
21:32
Speaker 4: That's the difference guys in the NFL.
21:35
Speaker 9: I don't know if there's a union in the NFL
21:36
Speaker 9: and the NBA, but I mean, I can't imagine there's
21:39
Speaker 9: many coaches in those two leagues making a million dollars Hey,
21:42
Speaker 9: there's coaches in small Division one football schools that are
21:46
Speaker 9: making a million dollars.
21:47
Speaker 4: So I don't understand it. I know why.
21:50
Speaker 9: It's because the president of baseball ops have the owner's
21:52
Speaker 9: ear and the GM make more money than the manager does,
21:57
Speaker 9: and they tell them we make all the decison visions.
22:00
Speaker 3: Anyways, why does it matter. We don't have to.
22:02
Speaker 9: Pay the manager. If he doesn't work out, we'll just
22:04
Speaker 9: go find another one for cheaper. And that's what teams
22:06
Speaker 9: have done. They don't value managers as much as they should,
22:09
Speaker 9: and they're even more grossy underpaid are the coaches that
22:12
Speaker 9: are on these manager staves.
22:14
Speaker 4: If you think a million.
22:15
Speaker 9: Dollars as bad, ask a coach what they make in
22:17
Speaker 9: the hours they put in. It's even fucking worse.
22:21
Speaker 7: I'm glad you hit the part on the coaches, so
22:23
Speaker 7: I won't hit that part because it is crazy the
22:27
Speaker 7: amount they make, and everybody wants to be that guy,
22:29
Speaker 7: like I want to be a coach in the big leagues. Well, yeah,
22:33
Speaker 7: that's why they pay guys so little, because it's never
22:37
Speaker 7: been that like, oh, I'm up for the next coaching job.
22:40
Speaker 7: It's like, oh, I want to have that job, and
22:43
Speaker 7: I think one of the reasons, and maybe this isn't
22:45
Speaker 7: the case, and I've never been in negotiation for managerial position,
22:49
Speaker 7: but look at what happened this offseason. You had so
22:52
Speaker 7: many openings, and there's a lot of guys who are like,
22:55
Speaker 7: I have to be a big league manager.
22:57
Speaker 3: So they're willing to.
22:58
Speaker 7: Take pennies the dollar compared to what they should be
23:01
Speaker 7: willing to take, and because of what AJ said, the
23:05
Speaker 7: front offices don't value it. But then you have managers
23:10
Speaker 7: that win Manager of the Year. You have managers that are,
23:14
Speaker 7: you know, constantly taking their teams to the playoffs, and
23:17
Speaker 7: what do we hear about them?
23:18
Speaker 3: Ooh, he's a lame duck.
23:21
Speaker 7: But the managers who just got paid are really good
23:24
Speaker 7: Craig Counsel and Dave Roberts. But they almost went to
23:27
Speaker 7: free agency, or in Craig Council's case, he did go
23:31
Speaker 7: to free agency.
23:32
Speaker 3: That's how players get the most value.
23:35
Speaker 7: Managers might need to take that risk knowing you might
23:38
Speaker 7: not get a managerial job. I mean, there's some guys
23:41
Speaker 7: right now that are still out there that were successful
23:43
Speaker 7: or what I thought were good managers that don't have
23:46
Speaker 7: big league jobs. But you have to be willing to
23:49
Speaker 7: risk going to free agency and hoping there's a team
23:52
Speaker 7: out there that wants to have you as their manager,
23:55
Speaker 7: and other organizations don't. Like everyone says there's only thirty jobs.
23:59
Speaker 7: Really for a really good manager, there's probably only like
24:02
Speaker 7: ten jobs, maybe fifteen in a certain year, because teams
24:07
Speaker 7: don't value what a manager brings. And so what managers
24:11
Speaker 7: do is they say, yeah, i'll take my two year
24:13
Speaker 7: extension with a possible third year option.
24:16
Speaker 3: I'll take my.
24:18
Speaker 7: One and a half year extension because the option has
24:22
Speaker 7: to be picked up in certain things, like if they
24:24
Speaker 7: go to free agency. I think that will up the
24:27
Speaker 7: value of managers. Because Craig Council got that huge contract.
24:31
Speaker 7: He's never even been to a World Series as a manager,
24:33
Speaker 7: So there's the value there, but you have to be
24:37
Speaker 7: willing to take the risk too.
24:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody's doing that. I mean, just going back to
24:41
Speaker 1: what I was saying at the top. So we didn't
24:43
Speaker 1: know this. It kind of came out just recently. But
24:45
Speaker 1: Stephen both did end up signing a little extension, so
24:47
Speaker 1: he's got more time now than through the twenty six season.
24:50
Speaker 1: As of when we're doing this, Pat Murphy is only
24:53
Speaker 1: signed up through the twenty twenty six season, and sure,
24:56
Speaker 1: is he sixty seven years old? Yeah, but I mean
24:59
Speaker 1: he's like in his prime in terms of coaching, and
25:02
Speaker 1: look what he's done the past couple of years. It's
25:04
Speaker 1: hard to look at that situation and be like, how
25:06
Speaker 1: does this guy not have a few years on the
25:08
Speaker 1: books at the moment he wants to be there. He'll
25:10
Speaker 1: almost scream it, right aj He's said and quoted in
25:14
Speaker 1: this article and others that he wants to be with
25:16
Speaker 1: the Brewers. He wants to like ten more years and
25:17
Speaker 1: just be with Milwaukee. And he's like, I hope they
25:20
Speaker 1: want me to like you. Hope they want you to
25:23
Speaker 1: Look what you've done the past couple of seasons. How
25:25
Speaker 1: is it so twisted in our sport? Where in other
25:28
Speaker 1: sports they're like, we'll see and it's a whole song
25:30
Speaker 1: and dance and game Lane Kiffin right, like it dominates
25:33
Speaker 1: the headlines. And in baseball it's like, I hope they
25:36
Speaker 1: still like me after I've taken the bottom ten payroll
25:39
Speaker 1: and took them to back to back division titles, including
25:42
Speaker 1: the best record in baseball this past season. Please please
25:46
Speaker 1: take me back? Because is no knock on Patt it's
25:48
Speaker 1: just the culture right now within the sport and how
25:50
Speaker 1: much the front office is dominate. I get that, AJ,
25:53
Speaker 1: but still like you want to take care of certain
25:56
Speaker 1: front office members, Like that's cool, but it's just it's
25:59
Speaker 1: weird to see where we've gone in some ways with
26:02
Speaker 1: the manager role, Like the one I pointed out Kurt Suzuki,
26:05
Speaker 1: former player. He's got money and they're like, screw you
26:09
Speaker 1: one year, take it or leave it, and he's like, cool,
26:10
Speaker 1: I want to be in the bigs as a manager.
26:12
Speaker 3: I'll take it.
26:13
Speaker 2: That's that's a tough one to look at it.
26:16
Speaker 9: You just said it though he wanted to be a
26:18
Speaker 9: big league manager. And like I said earlier, the front
26:22
Speaker 9: offices don't value this position because they think they have
26:25
Speaker 9: convinced everybody. It's all about who the GM and the
26:27
Speaker 9: president of baseball ops. I mean, heck, a lot of
26:30
Speaker 9: them try to undervalue players. That's the other thing they
26:33
Speaker 9: under They want to be like, oh, we can David
26:35
Speaker 9: stillierren to use David Starns right now, he's gonna be in, Oh,
26:39
Speaker 9: we'll let this guy go free, Andjie, we'll get look
26:41
Speaker 9: at it what I did in Milwaukee, and look at
26:43
Speaker 9: what I can do now in New York, right, So
26:45
Speaker 9: they undervalue things because they all want to prove they
26:49
Speaker 9: can do it by spending less for their owner, because
26:51
Speaker 9: then their owner goes, oh, man, this guy, we only
26:53
Speaker 9: paid one million dollars for our manager, and look we
26:56
Speaker 9: almost made the playoffs. Managers don't matter, right, So it's
27:00
Speaker 9: all about value, and because people will take anything to
27:05
Speaker 9: be that guy and ex players, that's why you don't
27:08
Speaker 9: see that many ex players listen. I don't know the
27:10
Speaker 9: exact numbers, but I'm pretty sure when Alex Cora and
27:12
Speaker 9: Aaron Boone got their jobs, they weren't making five million
27:16
Speaker 9: dollars a year.
27:16
Speaker 4: They were making a pretty.
27:18
Speaker 9: Small amount, but they wanted to be managers so bad
27:20
Speaker 9: they took it, and they've turned out to be great managers.
27:23
Speaker 9: So now they're probably getting raised from there. But at
27:27
Speaker 9: the time, I mean, ox Coy just signed a nice extension, right,
27:30
Speaker 9: But when he first took that job, he wasn't making
27:32
Speaker 9: what he's making now. So yes, you have to be
27:34
Speaker 9: able to live on that edge, but most guys don't
27:36
Speaker 9: do that because most guys also that take these jobs
27:39
Speaker 9: don't have money in behind them to say, if I
27:41
Speaker 9: lose this job. I can afford to lose this job.
27:44
Speaker 9: You know, Blake Putero just got the nast job, right.
27:46
Speaker 9: He never played in the big leagues. He didn't have
27:48
Speaker 9: money for his family and kids and everyone for generations,
27:52
Speaker 9: like a lot of guys that played in the big leagues.
27:53
Speaker 4: For a long time doo.
27:54
Speaker 9: So yes, they'll take a low cut job because they're like, man,
27:57
Speaker 9: a million dollars sounds pretty damn good to me, and
27:59
Speaker 9: I'm in the big leagues and I get big league
28:01
Speaker 9: meals and I get all that stuff.
28:03
Speaker 4: Yeah, they'll take it. That's why.
28:06
Speaker 7: Here's my here's my biggest thing is when you compare NBA,
28:11
Speaker 7: maybe not NBA, when you compare NFL and college football,
28:15
Speaker 7: what do they want to do every single year? They
28:17
Speaker 7: want to win. Guarantee they want to win. So they
28:21
Speaker 7: sign a guy for five years and they're like bringing Lane
28:23
Speaker 7: Kiffin in to win. We're bringing Andy Reid in because
28:26
Speaker 7: we want to win. You never hear you never hear
28:28
Speaker 7: the Florida Gators go, this year's kind of a rebuilding year.
28:33
Speaker 7: So we're not really sure what kind of head coach
28:35
Speaker 7: we really want in this situation.
28:37
Speaker 3: No, they want to win.
28:38
Speaker 7: I think if more organizations truly want to win year
28:42
Speaker 7: in and year out and not play the we hope
28:45
Speaker 7: kind of thing.
28:46
Speaker 3: We're going to rebuild a retool we don't.
28:48
Speaker 7: Really need that much of a you know, impact in
28:51
Speaker 7: the managerial role.
28:53
Speaker 3: Then the salaries aren't going to go up.
28:56
Speaker 7: But the organizations that want to win year in and
28:58
Speaker 7: year out and don't look ahead to three years, Uh,
29:01
Speaker 7: that's probably when we're going to lose our three aces
29:03
Speaker 7: that we brought up from the minor leagues. So we're gonna,
29:07
Speaker 7: you know, we're gonna have kind of a retooling. That's
29:09
Speaker 7: why they don't. That's why they don't get these long
29:10
Speaker 7: term extensions. That's why they don't get these big, big
29:13
Speaker 7: time deals. Like these jobs, these thirty jobs should be
29:16
Speaker 7: coveted by the front offices and say, I want the
29:19
Speaker 7: best manager. I want the best aj Prasinski manager that's
29:23
Speaker 7: out there. I want the best just like the college
29:25
Speaker 7: football football organizations teams do. Just like the NFL teams,
29:30
Speaker 7: they want to win, so they get the best coaches
29:33
Speaker 7: to do that.
29:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, if I was owning a team, this is a
29:37
Speaker 1: place where you can win on the margins and it
29:41
Speaker 1: doesn't cost you much more than where you're at, right,
29:43
Speaker 1: I mean, but you have to allow that talent to
29:45
Speaker 1: get to free agency. Like you guys said, right, you
29:48
Speaker 1: can be an owner who really cares and be looking
29:50
Speaker 1: and go, he's never getten to me, I can't get him.
29:55
Speaker 1: I mean, he's not leaving his contract. They keep renewing
29:57
Speaker 1: him and good for the team on their end. But
29:59
Speaker 1: these guys have to go to free agency like Craig
30:01
Speaker 1: Counsel did. That's why it's fascinating. So if you have thoughts,
30:04
Speaker 1: if we're missing something, let us know. But I do
30:07
Speaker 1: think the comparisons are pretty crazy. When you look at
30:10
Speaker 1: the few top guys making a lot of baseball, not
30:13
Speaker 1: even close to the top in a sport like basketball,
30:17
Speaker 1: and then you look at where the mean or the
30:19
Speaker 1: median is in baseball, and then a third of the
30:22
Speaker 1: league just getting replaced just now. It's a pretty crazy
30:25
Speaker 1: scene to see where we're at with managers in baseball