Latest / Okay, Hear Me Out. / Who's Who in Mental Health
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- Rise Therapeutic Services: Welcome to Okay Hear Me Up, where we'd rather torch the status quo than tiptoe around it and bring you the conversations your brain didn't know it needed, but definitely can't escape. We're your hosts, Ashley and Melissa. And if you've ever wondered what happens when two women with zero fucks and a million thoughts get together to talk about mental health and all the ways the world could use a serious reboot, you're about to find out. So buckle up, because we're not here to color inside the lines, we're here to redraw them, question everything, and maybe light a match or two. So let's get started. Listening to this podcast, interacting with us on social media or submitting questions does not establish a client therapist relationship between you and the host. That's a fancy way of saying we aren't your therapist just because you listen to this podcast. Please go get yourself one. Always seek the advice of your physician, therapist, or Or other qualified health professional with any questions you may have regarding a medical or mental health condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay seeking it simply because of something you've heard on this podcast. If you think you may have a medical or mental health emergency, call your doctor or go to the nearest hospital, or call 911 immediately. If you are experiencing suicidal crisis or severe emotional distress, please call or text 998 to reach the suicidal or crisis lifeline in the US or Canada. Or contact your local emergency services. Reliance on any information provided by OK Hear Me Out, us, the hosts, or any guest is solely at your own risk. Any case studies, listener questions, or examples discussed are fictionalized or heavily anonymized to protect confidentiality. speaker-1: Welcome back for episode three of Okay Hear Me Out. speaker-0: Today's topic is gonna be super boring. speaker-1: Maybe we'll make it fun. We'll try. speaker-0: We'll try to make it fun, but again, this is supposed to be a psychoeducational Psychoeducational? No, it's just educational. I mean maybe some psychoeducate and I don't know. It's gonna be an educational podcast today where we're gonna try to help you understand all the different kinds of therapists and all the different letters. Probably not gonna hit all of them because that would be really boring. But we're gonna hit the most popular ones. Because we think it's important for people to understand the differences, because sometimes you'll go to a therapist looking for something and that's not something that they would necessarily specialize in based on their degree. And while normally I would say the degree doesn't always matter, the education they get is significantly different. Correct. So speaker-1: And not always significantly different. speaker-0: Well it is, unless you seek out the different kinds of classes and different kinds of training. speaker-1: Correct there's a baseline of information though. Yeah. Everybody correct. speaker-0: That's true. The T though is gonna be completely different. But I would also argue no, because like like I for my degree but it might be different though, was for online versus in person, which we will break down later. But like my in person degree, I wasn't with any of the L P C students except for like very specific classes, but even then I was rarely with them. speaker-1: Agreed. I don't think yeah, our track was not speaker-0: Like we never over overlapped with any of them. No. So I would argue I don't know if that's the same but speaker-1: There's still foundational classes. Like you took an ethics class speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: and you took a modalities class. Which speaker-0: But the modalities are still gonna be different and the ethics are gonna be different potentially because we went by like the AMFT ethical code. Not necessarily the ACA ethical code, I'm pretty sure. Because AMFT is marriage family therapist. ACA is for LPCs, I'm pretty sure. speaker-1: No, the ACA is just overarching counseling. speaker-0: Yeah, but we're not considered counselors, we're considered therapists. Also different terms. Which is fucking stupid because I don't really actually know why they're like speaker-1: at the baseline they're not different. speaker-0: I mean, they are, but they're not, like speaker-1: Not really. speaker-0: We speaker-1: And like educationally, the timeline is very fascinating because I'm pretty sure the no. No. speaker-0: It's it's it's not. Counseling is short term goal oriented, therapy is long term explores deeper seated emotional patterns. So the technically, the education should be significantly different because if you're going to school to be a therapist speaker-1: It should be longer. speaker-0: You should be learning more about the trauma. The like shit people are gonna be in therapy for long term for. Counseling is for sushi-focused, like short-term I have this problem, I need to solve it, blah blah blah blah. So like to me, LPCs would likely have differing They should. They should technically have differing speaker-1: Dude, we should totally do an episode on interviewing people who have the different speaker-0: Degrees. speaker-1: degrees and see what kind of educations they had because like you and I, obviously we have different licensure, but like even our experience obviously like in person versus online was significantly different, but dude, I don't know. Like the the education piece is so wildly different. speaker-0: I mean it's wildly different just based on the experience that we have had. Correct. Let alone the students that we have The students Ugh speaker-1: That we've had though. speaker-0: Ugh we can't even get into that. speaker-1: Okay. speaker-0: So anyway, today we're gonna break break down the different speaker-1: Break down. speaker-0: Which of course is going to be very vague in general because speaker-1: And we are not experts on this. No. speaker-0: you can also I mean we are in the sense that like we are in the field. speaker-1: We're gonna give you the generic speaker-0: We're gonna give you the generic version, but like obviously every single person who goes into this field can add to their repertoire based on the trainings that they do. So like the the letters realistically only actually talk about the degree they have. Yes. They don't actually talk about what they're physically capable of within the operatherapy room based on their trainings and certifications they got after they got their degree. So the letters after someone's name are literally just the degree they have. speaker-1: Yes, and honestly, may not even represent their education status before they have their letters. Because speaker-0: True. You're not wrong. speaker-1: I would argue that some people have the letters that shouldn't. speaker-0: You're not wrong. Okay, you go ahead and start speaker-1: Okay, so first and foremost there is the LPC. So the licensed professional counselor, right? So these individuals often view like mental health issues as like the normal responses to development developmental stages. speaker-0: You just a stroke? speaker-1: Why is that your default? Also, I forgot my readers. Remember I'm old. speaker-0: Fucking readers. We need to get you a pair just for in speaker-1: No. Apparently. Evidently. Well, I bought it like a twelve pack. So I just need to bring speaker-0: Yes. speaker-1: I've learned from the elders in my life. Continue. speaker-0: Goddy who could speaker-1: Okay. So LBCs basically view things as like natural responses to developmental stages of different life transitions. rather than like the illnesses or the like strict diagnoses, right? They focus on the individual growth, the coping skills, the mental wellness side of things. speaker-0: Technically based on the counselor word, they should be more focused on like brief solution focused type things. Like you come in with a problem, let me help you solve it. Based on the counselor word. But like I don't actually think speaker-1: I'm even gonna reframe that. It's not our job to help you solve it. It's how that's true. Our job is to help you help yourself solve it. Good call. Thank you. I'm not going to solve your problems for you. speaker-0: any cute. The next one's the LMFT, which is what I am as a licensed marriage family therapist. Some sometimes it'll also be L C F T, marriage couples family therapist. speaker-1: Depends on the state, by the way. speaker-0: Yes, it will depend on the state you're correct. but they tend to be more systems-based, so they will look at the individual, but then they'll also pull backward and look at like how your psychoso psychosocial stuff kind of impacts you. So environment, genetics, like where you live in the sense of like neighborhoods, even. like what systems you're in. So if you're a police officer versus a doctor versus a teacher, like how is that impacting you as well? they tend to be much more trained in like family to family dynamics and and like those types of things. so they'll all s oftentimes even if you're doing individual therapy will pull in relational dynamics into the sessions to help you kind of break that out and and kind of see how that's impacting you too. So speaker-1: Yep. Yeah. And then we've got LCSW, which is licensed clinical Clinical, speaker-0: Social work. speaker-1: I was like C counseling. No, clinical social worker. They often view things from the systemic, like oppressive lens. social justice side, how your environment impacts your mental health, and that comes from like the bigger lens. so we zoom out even further. speaker-0: Well they often work for like government agencies and stuff like that. A lot of a lot of times they do. Or they'll start out there. speaker-1: Yes. speaker-0: They tend to be the ones who know people. If you need a resource, you go to an LCSW. speaker-1: They tend to have, yes, more of that like resource list or that resource lens of how can we get you all the resources that you need to be successful or to get out of the circumstances that you're in. however, I will say I've noticed more of an influx of LCSWs doing just general counseling. speaker-0: Agreed. One hundred percent. Which is interesting because I don't actually know what their like education looks like. They're speaker-1: shorter so for my track they came and did What did we call The residencies where we had another person. Yeah. But ours were like six days long, theirs were three. So like I don't know how long their degree was. So we speaker-0: How long was the degree itself? We're gonna need to look this up. speaker-1: do need to look it up because theirs was different than ours. They had less work. speaker-0: But I'm wondering if it's because they're not they're not counseling based. They're not. You know what I mean? They're more like like D I whenever I think of LCS, I always think like DHS, right? Like speaker-1: And they work a lot in hospital settings. is really in my perspective, like the the purpose of an LCSW is speaker-0: Like a care coordinator kinda like deal where they work on teams often. Yeah. I feel like speaker-1: We would love speaker-0: We'll have to find someone. Yeah. Well we'll see. Anywho. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: is Christy in LCSW? I could interview her if you're not there. speaker-1: Ha ha ha. speaker-0: Heehe. Maybe. Anyways. Anyways, then you have the C A D C which is the no, it's addiction and drug counselors. so they specialize in substance use. Like period. But they don't always have to have a master's degree. So that's something to remind yourself of. Like they don't necessarily have to have the degree to have the letters behind their name. Does not necessarily mean that they're better or worse. I have met some C A D Cs that are phenomenal and they don't have master's degrees. I have met C A D Cs that have their master's degrees that were fucking horrid. So like it Good luck. May the odds be ever in favor. But like that doesn't necessarily mean they have a degree. So if you are hell bent on finding someone with a degree, like you're gonna have to ask us questions if you're going to a C A D C because they don't necessarily have one. but they do typically have like training in like physiology, psychology of actual addiction stuff. So speaker-1: Yes, there's background there. Art therapy. So art therapists. So there is a distinction that I think is important to make when people are advertising that they can do art therapy or they enjoy doing art with their therap their clients versus that they are an art therapist. Not speaker-0: Very different. speaker-1: everybody can say that they are an art therapist. speaker-0: Not allowed. speaker-1: Yeah, it's actually a big num. Yes. speaker-0: You have a degree in art therapy to call yourself an art therapist. speaker-1: Art therapists, the act of creating in and of itself, right? So that can be really any media. So clay, paint, closing, really anything hands-on helps clients externalize any of their internal chaos, right? It's often a a means of expressing things that they don't have words for. They can't articulate those thoughts or feelings. speaker-0: Or that their bodies like feel but like their brains can't cognitively express, right? Like sometimes it'll literally be like you pick any modality you want in here and and pick an emotion or something and then like you would create something like out of those things. Like they go so deep into sense of like they're very particular in the modalities they will let their clients use because if you are super traumatized, right? Like charcoal might not be super fucking great for you because charcoal makes a mess. A. And B, it can be really hard to control. I think if I remember correctly when I was talking to an art student, they were saying like they don't let so same with watercolor. Like they will let people who are more regulated use some of those harder to control medias. He yeah, medias because it it can literally put you in a a state that's not what they're looking for. So they have a lot more of that background of what would match this and the rapport is is is very significant to do that type speaker-1: Which then begs to question some of our art activities that we do. We throw all these things at them and we're like speaker-0: No it doesn't because we use really basic stuff. And we No, we but we don't give we don't use charcoal or like clay or anything. We we don't use any of that shit. We only use basic markers and stuff. Yeah, no. To me that's very different. It is very different. Very, very different. our prompts are very basic. They're not like dig speaker-1: Very fun sometimes. Yeah. speaker-0: your body out of your soul and put her speaker-1: What is a very therapeutic means. Like if you are not sure how to express what you're feeling, go do art. Go do art. Fun. speaker-0: It's lot of fun. It is a lot of fun. the next one is the sex therapy field, which is oftentimes it's not even necessarily that's not even letters that they put after their name. Oftentimes they're LPCs or LMFTs, and this is a specialization, right? so the sex therapy specialization is where they view sexual sexual issues like through that biopsychosocial lens, which is essentially this idea. They look at all of your life medical history, trauma history, relationship dynamics, and then look at how that impacts your ability to engage in sexual relationships, right? And that can be like pain during sex, it can be low libido, ill inability to orgasm, stuff like that. Yes, sex addiction even sometimes they'll work with. but they oftentimes will like It's just a specialty. Like it's not something that they have to go to school to do. It's just additional training. Like speaker-1: Yes. speaker-0: art therapists have to get the art therapy degree. Sex therapists is not a that's not a degree. That's just a specialty. speaker-1: Yes, that there's extra training. speaker-0: Correct. You have to do extra training for it, yes. speaker-1: psychologists. Right? Yep. Different than psychiatrists. Psychologists speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: have a doctorate. So even a higher level degree. speaker-0: But it's a different kind of doctorate. So a normal doctorate would be a PhD. They have what's called a Psy D. Correct. So a Psy D is more like a clinical doctorate versus a medical doctorate. speaker-1: Yes. It's a good just team. speaker-0: It is. It's very interesting because like a medical doctorate is more it they're closer to like an MD, right? Yes. A s a clinical doctorate means that they focus more on like the clinical aspect of being a therapist. speaker-1: Yes, the assessments. Yes. Right. Personality disorders, autism, ADHD, they can kind of run through like the the nitty-gritty of the psychology field. speaker-0: It's a it's a very significant difference. Like there and even as an LMFT or L P C I c we cannot we're not we can't do assessments. We are not ethically allowed to do assessments because it is way out of our scope, right? You can get trainings like Megan, I think in our office, she's an LPC, but she has training to do ADHD assessments, right? But she only uses a specific kind of assessment. If you go get your s your side D, like you have access to a way more vast idea of like assessments and all the things, which is why when I have clients wanting to get assessed and evaluated, I usually tell them go find a psychologist. Because they're going to give you a much more in-depth option around the different clinical assessments that they're going to use for you. speaker-1: And some psychologists focus more on the research. Like they go do speaker-0: Yes, yes, but that's usually clinical research. Correct. Yes. So they'll do like Andrea for example, she's wants to do research on like equine therapy and like heart rate and regulation and and all those things. speaker-1: Yes, they will step more into doing research than like clinical sit in a room, do assessments, kind of stuff. speaker-0: But a side D can do will do both. If you have a PhD in psychology, oftentimes they focus only on research. They don't do the clinical side. Which is the huge difference, right? Like if you go to a C D, you're looking at someone who has done a lot of clinical work versus the PhD, they've done more of their research work. Yes. And they're they they don't step into the the clinical field nearly as often. Yep. So There's a big difference between those. then you have psychiatrists or psychiatric nurse practitioners. They're the drug dealers. They're the ones who you go to to get all the drugs. Now, they're the only ones who should be giving you drugs, in my opinion. I personally do not believe that PCPs should be prescribing anybody mental health drugs. Agreed. I do not think that's appropriate because if you go in and you just have someone fail at a scale and then you're like, here, take this drug. speaker-1: I know how to adjust the meds either. speaker-0: But like have you tried anything else? Yep. speaker-1: Which is also like we could go down a whole rabbit hole on this around the idea of PCPs having you fill out PHQ nines and Gs speaker-0: They don't make you do any of that shit. Yes, they do. I've never had a PCP. my god. Ever. They make me do it never once. speaker-1: The fucking ti every no appointment. speaker-0: I mean, granted, I don't go to the doctor very often. Correct. But speaker-1: time and I roll my eyes because I'm like, stop asking me. This is none of your fucking business. I have a therapist. But the caveat is is that not everybody has access to mental health care. So like it's a kind of a catch net, but I don't want the PCP catching that. No. Because then they give drugs out to people where they're not monitoring said drugs. Well they're not actually giving referrals. speaker-0: But also how often do you do you have clients come in that are on mental health drugs that are contraindicated with their fucking actual medical drugs? But their PCPs don't pay attention to that bullshit. Yes. Ugh. Don't even get us started. We're gonna get on a frickin' we're gonna get on a freaking box. speaker-1: But like I literally just had a client talking about needing a medication adjustment, but it was being prescribed by a PCP. And I was like, nope, we need to find you. Yeah. An actual prescriber. Yep. Because the PCP is not gonna have any idea which way to prescribe or if we need to switch meds. speaker-0: Now there are some PCPs who are great. Like let's caveat that. There are some PCPs out there I'm sure that are great and do their research and they do their jobs. Maybe. A lot of PCPs don't, and to my knowledge, they don't have more than a couple hours worth of a class on mental health in psychopharmacology in the sense of like that piece of it. speaker-1: If you are a PCP listening to this and you had more than that, please send us an email. Let us know how much actual education you had on this topic. And I speaker-0: Because to our knowledge it's not very much speaker-1: have asked. I've asked about their history. I've asked doctors, how much knowledge do you have of trauma? How much knowledge have you learned on psychiatric medication? And how much knowledge do you have of there was one other question that I had asked a doctor that I was like, hmm, see? Fuck, what was the other question that I asked her? And she couldn't answer any of the questions. speaker-0: and that's another thing too, right? If you're gonna go anywhere for mental health drugs, like I don't you need to ask questions. Don't just say I have anxiety, can you give me an anxiety medication? No. You need to ask those questions. Yeah. What's your trauma training? What how much history, like what's your what's your what's your background in knowledge in mental health diagnoses and medication for said things? Because if you're going in for I don't know, bipolar Like no, that's significantly different than an anxiety medication. Let's start with that. But then B like they sh just don't touch it. Don't just don't do it. Just go t go ask for a referral for somebody in network that can prescribe for you for your medic for your mental health medications. Just do that. Because honestly I have never had a I that's not true. I have had a couple clients have hit issues with psych psychologists or psychiatrists. However, far and few between do they have issues with psychiatrists more than their PCPs. Agreed. And oftentimes, I don't know by your experience, but from what I've heard from you say it's a lot easier to get in with your psychiatrist than it is your PCP. speaker-1: Most of the time. Well, and my psychiatrist, she's full, but she automatically gives me referrals to people who are not full that are qual. speaker-0: In a network. Yes. So I mean it's it's it's a very different world doing psychiatry versus the PCP world. And not only that, I feel like their focus is significantly different. Yeah. speaker-1: I just yeah. And speaker-0: This is definitely speaker-1: it's hard because like we can go down the tangent and we will. There will be an episode about the medical field. It will speaker-0: don't get us started. speaker-1: be a thing. Okay, moving on to a whole nother tangent. speaker-0: god. speaker-1: Coaches who don't actually have credentials. speaker-0: D listen, if you're gonna go to a life coach, just we need to have a very specific conversation about what this actually speaker-1: So let's preface first and foremost that this is not a personal attack on any one person. You are probably great people. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: The field speaker-0: Itself is speaker-1: of life coaching is questionable. speaker-0: question. Ethically questionable. Yes. Not the people. I mean some of the people absolutely are. But speaker-1: He wants speaker-0: we can't you mean you'd say that about therapists, so like Yes. speaker-1: Legit, you can say it about any field. There's that. speaker-0: Yeah. So being speaker-1: This is unregulated fuel. speaker-0: a being a you are gonna go see a life coach, you need to understand that it's very unregulated. Okay, they're just now kind of looking at like having an ethical code. They have zero ethical expectations of their life coaches. They have zero boundaries. There's not a board. speaker-1: Bull. speaker-0: No, there's no board. There's no one that like like like a national board. I think there's one that's like a organization. I can't remember what it's called. No. Like there's n no. Because realistically they're not supposed to be touching anything that they should be fucking up. Correct. Honestly. But like that doesn't mean they still can't fuck up your life, right? Like speaker-1: So they can charge you five thousand dollars and then provide you with nothing and you can't do a damn thing about it. Maybe take them to civil claims. speaker-0: look. But like there is a difference there, right? In the sense of like you should be interviewing a life coach just like you interview a therapist, right? Like if you're going to a life coach about financial help, great. What's your background in finances? What kind of training do you have in finances? Like if they're like, you know, I'm a millionaire, okay, great. That doesn't actually mean anything. Like because you could have been born a millionaire. speaker-1: Be in Neppo baby. speaker-0: Like what does that mean, right? So make like you need to make sure you ask questions, right? Because the difference, okay, okay. We're getting all heated about this. We can't have conversations about this very often. Okay. Life. Literally anyone can call himself a coach. Joe Blow off the street could be like a life coach. I help people in relationships, and they literally have the shittiest relationships you've ever seen in a life. But You wouldn't know that 'cause they're not gonna tell you that. speaker-1: Well they're gonna use it as an example as to why they're the best life coach because they've been through all that. speaker-0: Bad ones don't go to that person. Unless they've been to therapy. If you get a life coach and they say they don't go to therapy, like mmm, listen. Okay. We're gonna move on. We're gonna move on. Coaches focus on goal setting and future potential. They are constantly looking forward and they're they're looking for solutions. That is their purpose. Okay? That is the only thing they should be doing is looking forward. Should. I want to get a job here. Okay, great. How can I help you get that done? How can I help you this? How can I help you that? speaker-1: How I pr help you prepare? How can I help you dress for the job? How can I help you practice your interview skills and build your confidence and all those things? speaker-0: Coaches cannot legally touch your mental health. If they start talking to you about your anxiety, about your depression, they are fucking way out of their lane. Nope. That is not allowed. Not how that works. They can say, like, it sounds like your anxiety is coming up. But the next thing out of their mouth should be: we should probably find you a mental health provider to work on that. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Period. Like they should not be touching your mental health stuff at all. speaker-1: Nope. speaker-0: Even if they're a therapist, they should not be touching your mental health stuff. And the reason why is because they are not your therapist, they are your life coach, and this is where people struggle. If you are going to a life coach and they are also a therapist, there needs to be a very clear distinction and boundary about what you are and are not working on. You cannot go to one person as a life coach and a therapist. That's not allowed. Because as a therapist, we cannot have dual relationships with our clients, or we have to Do everything that's possible to avoid dual relationships, right? Correct. Which means that if I am your therapist and your life coach, I am now dual relationship with you. That's not allowed. You cannot do that. It's one or the other, you have to pick. Period. That is it. And oftentimes if you go to someone for therapy and then you quit and then you go to be a life coach, you can't go back to being there like the therapist. Well I don't know. And that's again, it goes back because coaching is so unregulated, it's very fucking gray. Because realistically in the therapy world there's nothing in there about life coaching and the the requirements around that. You know what I mean? There's requirements around employment of of clients or dating clients. But there's nothing around the other things of life coaching. So speaker-1: Yep. speaker-0: again, very fucking gray. So if they're if you're in a coaching relationship and they're helping you with past issues, like trauma and shit, fucking no. That is such a no no. Not okay. Not allowed. That's called therapy. speaker-1: And therapists and coaches that do both should know better. speaker-0: Yes, you should know better. But there's a lot of shady people out there who just don't care about the rules. So like there's that. speaker-1: Yes there is there's that. speaker-0: So at the end of the day, right, like coaching helps you get to a solution by asking questions to get there. They never touch the problem or the past. speaker-1: And if they are touching the past, run for the hills. speaker-0: Coaching is not a healing model. It is not. They're they're a helping with the problem moving forward, right? Actually, they don't even actually help with problems realistically. They're not supposed to touch problems at all. So if you come in and you're like, well, I have a problem with spending money, okay, they're not gonna touch they don't care about what your problem is. So if you want help with your problem, you need to go to therapy because the coach shouldn't be touching it. The coach should be saying, Okay, here you have a problem. What's your goal? Well, my goal is to have five thousand dollars in my bank account. Okay, great. Here's how we're gonna help you do that. They should not be saying, Well, why do you have this problem? Where did you learn that? That's therapy. That's not coaching. You need to go find a therapist for that. And they should be telling you that. Correct. speaker-1: The minute because it's a fine line that is walked with that whole like where did that come from? speaker-0: Well you can't touch a problem without touching that. speaker-1: Exactly. Which is why I could never do life coaching, right? We've talked about speaker-0: I could. speaker-1: Easily. And that's we have this like discussion frequently where like I literally am like, you've got a confidence thing that you want to work on? Where did that come from? Great, how are we gonna work that in that floor? speaker-0: Yeah, and I'm like, you have confidence issues? We need to move forward. Like, how do we get away from that? Like I for me speaker-1: Too much connected to the past in my brain of like, okay, let's break this down before we can build it up. Yes. And life coaching No. speaker-0: They don't care about your problem. speaker-1: Does not open the door for that. And if it does, they've crossed a line. speaker-0: Yeah. Realistically life coaches should not care about your problems. No. You come in and you're like, I'm having such a hard day. Like my husband is this or my wife's this or my kids are this. They should literally be like, Wow, that sucks. Moving on. Correct. Because they can't touch that. speaker-1: And I think it's so hard with the life coaching thing because without poo-pooing on people, it just feels like the cop out way to try to do therapy without having to do the work. speaker-0: Yes. Yes, correct. Because therapy realistically, right? The whole purpose of therapy is we're gonna dig into all the shit that you don't want to dig into. Yeah. That's literally the purpose of it. Is that we're our job is to take our tiny little shovels and forks and be like, that looks fun. Tss that looks fun. Let's dig that up. Let's poke that and see what happens, right? Obviously in a very ethical and like therapeutic way. However, that's essentially what we're doing. Right? And so if y if you are going to a coach and they're like, yeah, I work on f relationship issues. What? How are you doing that without talking about all my past relationships? You're not. speaker-1: So interesting. speaker-0: You're not. speaker-1: I'm like, can you think of now all of the life coaches that you're like, let's talk about your relationship problems? I'm like, wait a minute. speaker-0: No, let's not. And not only s I can't. We're gett we're gonna get all hot and bothered about it because the problem is is that if a life coach fucks you up There's speaker-1: Not damn. speaker-0: not a damn thing you can do about it. speaker-1: Any of the other credentials, there are regulatory boards that you can file complaints with. Correct. speaker-0: can file complaints and grievances and get them in trouble and they can get fined and da da da da da speaker-1: And be required to take additional correct training to speaker-0: And all the things. speaker-1: learn to do better and have additional supervision. speaker-0: Yep. Therapy is meant to to treat a diagnosis, right? Coaching is literally meant to help you move forward and improve yourself. Fine. speaker-1: Which is like which is a whole nother conversation to have around the whole diagnoses thing, right? Like diagnoses are really at the end of the day meant for insurance companies. Correct. Which is the most infuriating thing also. Which yeah, like that'll be a whole nother topic. speaker-0: We will also talk about We'll get there. But overall, right, like and g and that here's the thing, the coaching business is great. Like they can do a lot of really great work. speaker-1: Yeah, they can serve a purpose if they stay in their lane. Yes. That's the problem that we often see is that there's too much crossover into a lane that's not theirs, which is what infuriates us, is like we see it quite often on social media. Yes. Or we're like, what is this person doing? I have speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: also seen people who are acting as licensed professionals who are not licensed. I've actually reported someone who claims to be a therapist offering therapy sessions for a specific rate and time and location who is no who does not offer or not have any credential credentials whatsoever. speaker-0: Fascinating. Yeah. Which and here's the thing, right? It's like you some of you might other wow Melissa's a dickhead. No, like we're ethically obligated to we have no choice. It's like mandatory reporting. We have to report each other. Yeah. Because that's how we keep our that's how we keep our field pure. speaker-1: Yeah, and if we don't report it and they find out that we knew we speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: then also get in trouble. Correct. speaker-0: Super fun. It's it's not like being micromanaged at all and living under someone's thumb and never really knowing how they're gonna respond. It's kind of like an abusive relationship in some way. speaker-1: It's really fun. Well what's really fun is reporting the bad people but then nothing happens to the bad people and you're like, what are we doing? What is the point of this? speaker-0: of us. What is the point of life? speaker-1: Yeah, fifty one is a great example. speaker-0: So there you go. Now you have a breakdown of some of the letters behind people's names and kind of hopefully have a better idea of like what they focus on and why you might go see one versus the other. But at the end of the day, right, and we will do this, I think, at some point, we talk about like questions to ask. When you are interviewing a therapist, as a client, like it is literally your job to interview your therapist. It's like a job interview. Yeah. If you're asking them questions that are important to you and they can't answer them That's your that's your your cue to be like probably not a fit for me. Yep. speaker-1: Yep. speaker-0: I I don't know what else to really say about that. speaker-1: I think that we have an episode maybe somewhere in there that talks about like what to actually ask speaker-0: Yeah, we do somewhere, I think. speaker-1: your therapist, but asking about their credentials is a part of it. Like what school did you go to? Yeah. And what speaker-0: Which we'll go we'll we will talk about that. But online school versus in person school are very fucking different. speaker-1: And there's a lot of online school happening, so it's not avoidable in theory, but our perspective, my perspective, to be honest, yes, is like if they went to an online school asking them like great, what other trainings and credentials do you have outside of that? Correct. Because it was a very different experience. speaker-0: As a clinical supervisor, the the students that I have had that have come from online schools especially if they're younger, have had no significantly lacking like an education as a whole. speaker-1: Skills. An education as So asking them genuinely like what's your background? What kind of trainings have you done? speaker-0: Because they're not in the seat, right? Like when I went to my school, like I had to physically go to my classes and sit down with my professors and my my c colleagues, essentially what they were, and we had to do the work right then and there and we had to consistently converse about the material and about this and about that and you had to physically deal with people with different perspectives in the moment. Yeah. And the teachers got to watch you. How do you deal with someone who is nothing like you? How do you deal with someone who has a completely different background in the moment. When you are go to a fucking online school, it's respond to this post and then respond to someone else's posts or some shit like that. Like speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: it's literally all cognitive. Yeah. There is no actual skill building in the moment. speaker-1: No, they make you fly to some place for one week and that's yeah, well unlike COVID hit and I only had one of my two in person weeks. So speaker-0: Maybe that speaker-1: yeah. speaker-0: And so like it's it's significantly different and it shows. It does. It shows in the therapy room. Yeah. speaker-1: So we will go over maybe a like legitimate list. speaker-0: yeah, I think we have one somewhere. Yeah. speaker-1: to interview. But that's the the rundown of the different credentials. Not a very like thrilling episode, but hopefully educational and informative. Yeah. They won't all be boring, we promise. No. speaker-0: We we are already warned to them. The first few are gonna be born. Yeah. We gotta get the education part out. Yeah first. We can't leave you in the world without the foundation of understanding what therapy is. It's true. And like who these random people are and what the random letters behind their names are. That would be in a that would be very, very inappropriate and very un non-responsible of us. Non speaker-1: True statement. speaker-0: irresponsible. Non responsible. Non-responsible. Irresponsible. speaker-1: Until next time. Bye. Bye.