Latest / RunThrough Trails / #Ep 47 - Stephanie Case | Human Rights Lawyer, Gender Equality in Trail Running & Racing Antarctica

Transcript

#Ep 47 - Stephanie Case | Human Rights Lawyer, Gender Equality in Trail Running & Racing Antarctica · RunThrough Trails

• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, so welcome back to the Run Through Trails Podcast.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Beth.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the new podcast host.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't met me before, I'm a trail runner from Birmingham in the UK.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: And feel free to check out the last episode where you get to hear a bit more about me and my trail running journey.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: But today, to kick off our first episode with a guest since relaunching the podcast, we have got the amazing Steph Case with us.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: She is a North Face athlete from, well, currently based in Chamonix.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: She won her first ever trail race, which is just crazy to kick things off like that.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: She's done basically any crazy race you can think of, Torge Giants, TGC, winner of UTS 100K, UTMB, also a human rights lawyer, set up her own charity of free to run.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: You basically name it, and she's done it.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So so many incredible things.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm super excited to have Steph on the podcast.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome, Steph.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for joining us.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thanks for having me.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: That it was it was nice to get that little intro.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was feeling very unproductive this morning.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: So you're boosting, you're boosting my my confidence.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Literally though, when I was going through your UTM V like index and list of races, I was like, wow, you really actually have done everything.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know it's it's been a long career so far?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm 18, 18 years into ultra running.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's I feel quite lucky, you know, to be able to have performed what I think is is the best that I can perform, at least under the conditions that I've I've been under throughout those 18 years.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's it's great, but there's there's still a lot more to come.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, definitely.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also incredible because you've essentially worked really hard to build yourself a robust body so that you can keep doing this for such a long time.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because people think that your ultrarrunning career is gonna end, but you've kind of proven that if you put in the training and build that body that can cope with all this, there's no reason why you can't do it forever, essentially.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think that that's that's the key.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I was first starting off ultra running, I was so deep into it and got quite obsessed by it.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I was probably over training, you know, my first couple of years.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was plagued with a lot of injuries, and it really was a process of kind of taking a step back and actually doing less that allowed me to make sure that I could have a long, a long career in the sport.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And some of it has been just because I haven't been able to train at the level that I wanted to, because I've been, you know, through my work, I've been living in in crazy places where the training at probably the level I would want to train at wasn't possible.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I can't say it was all you know, my own wisdom that has allowed me to um to be able to have a long career.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's my circumstances have also um forced me not to be able to train so much.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I just love running.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: I love racing, I love competing, I love challenging myself.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm always looking for the next thing, the next adventure.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: What's the next big race or expedition that I can do that is going to test my limits again?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And what your limits are changes.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's not a static thing.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, every time you do a big race or a big adventure and you actually succeed, then it's great.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: But it for me, it's also a little bit of a disappointment because it means that I haven't found my limit yet.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so then I need to find something bigger and something better.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's so true.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: So there's there's still plenty of things that I want to do in this sport, even after 18 years.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it is like we find these goals, we are thinking about it basically 24-7 until we do the goal.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: The second we cross that finish line, we're like, okay, what next?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're never satisfied.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: You have about five seconds where you're kind of bit out of breath and you're thinking, wow, that was hard.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then you just like, okay, so the next thing.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And and what I like is that, like I said, it, you know, what your goals can be, they they change.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I wasn't really interested in kind of racing fast before.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was always looking at longer, you know, how much longer can I go?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's been what's motivated me to get into ultras from the first place.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, once I did the 100 miler, then it was the 200 miler.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then once I did the 200 miler, then it was, you know, hitting close to the 300 miler with with Tour de Glacier.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: But since having a a baby and coming back into the sport, now I want to see if I can run those races that I did five years ago, 10 years ago, and do them faster and better now that I'm well into into my 40s.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's quite cool how you can always kind of pick a new, pick a new challenge, pick a new goal, and then train for that specifically.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: But going back again to what you were saying about longevity, it is something that I worry about with um, with I think those who are getting into the sport now in their 20s, even in in early 30s, I see some coaches, you know, pushing just such high volume and such intense, um, such intense training.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that can work.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: It can really work for a short period of time.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: It can get you on the podiums for a year or two years.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: But what I do worry about is um is some of these athletes who are so talented and so fast.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it can be so it can be so seductive to to get on those podiums and to win and win and win and win.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: But to make sure that you're able to do that for 10 years or 20 years does require a different strategy.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: So no, it's so true.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: And like we see everything on social media and you just want to do more and more and more, but actually sometimes less is more.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's hard that like I guess when you see Instagram, you only see the exciting bitch, you don't see the recovery, you don't see the time that you spend sat down and how important that side of the training is because who's gonna post on social media a you know a five-minute reel of them sat on sofa?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you don't see that side of try that.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: We should we should try that, just see how the algorithm takes to that go viral.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: A video of you having a little nap.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that sounds great.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to actually just have a nap and have it count for something.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, could you tell us a bit more about your journey?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you kind of touched on how you've worked in extreme environments through your human rights lawyer, but kind of how has your trail running journey kind of blended with your human rights lawyer job?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I did my first ultra in uh 2008, at the beginning of 2008.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And uh really it was my, like I said, it was my first, I think I might have done one half marathon on trails, but it was my first real trail race and my first ultra.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the first sense I had that I had found my sport, I had found me, really.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so over the next couple of years, I was just kind of testing myself to see what more I could do.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I was, I was learning about this trail running world.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'd never heard of UTMB until I had some friends say that they were doing UTMB, and I thought, oh great, I'll sign up for that.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, it was full.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I signed up for this new race in the series, which was TDS, and that was 2009.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: That was the first year that that TDS was starting.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm coming back now um 17 years later to do it again this year, which is quite exciting.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I was just, I was just starting to learn more about my body and what it could do and the whole trail running scene.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, trying to progress my career.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was in my 20s, and you know, this is when you really need to, really need to kick things off on the professional side.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it might sound strange to many people, but I was just desperate to um to gain experience in areas of conflict.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: That was my my real passion.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: That was where I wanted to go.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and in particular, Afghanistan.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I finally got the opportunity in 2012 to, it was a UN volunteer position.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, certainly nothing like the, you know, I'd worked kind of in a big corporate law firm, high flying in in New York.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: I had worked for a diplomatic advisory group.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was doing some really interesting things, but what I wanted to do was be in Afghanistan.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: So when I got this opportunity to work basically for free in a war zone, I jumped on it.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it really was still at the beginning of my ultra-running career.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember people told me, you know, that's that's it for you.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're not gonna be able to continue to run if you're living in in this armed compound.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And for sure, it was a it was a choice for me.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I maybe, I mean, back then there really wasn't a a way to go pro so much.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: There were a few people that were getting paid from from the sport, but the idea of just doing running for a living wasn't really a thing um back then.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember um Ryan Sands and I, we had both kind of gotten into our ultra-running careers through racing the planet through these multi-day races.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: I won my first one, he won his first one.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: He, of course, did many more things.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: But he, I remember he left his his day job around that time and and went full pro with with Solomon.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Not to say that I had that opportunity, but I remember looking at that as something that, you know, it just wasn't it wasn't of interest to me.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Running was always a hobby for me.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was always something that would be on the side.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I was clearly focused on my career, going to Afghanistan, but at the same time, I didn't want to give it, I didn't want to give it up.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: And when everyone told me that that was gonna be it, that I wouldn't be able to do running and work.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was something I really fought against.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I really have to thank the people who told me that I wouldn't be able to continue because when I'm told that I can't do something, I really double down, especially back then.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a little bit more sensible now that I'm in my 40s, but in my 20s, you couldn't tell me not to do something.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: That that was clearly the either the red flag or in front of a bull or the green light, however you want to look at it, that I was just going to find a way.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And of course it was difficult to train living in an armed compound in a in a war zone, but in many ways I was super privileged.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was living in a protected compound where I could run up and down.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: There was about 600, 800 meters of road I could run back and forth on, but I could widen it.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: I could do loops around the compound, I could run different times a day.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: There were treadmills.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: You could only use the treadmills for half an hour at a time because then they would break down because of the heat or the sand or whatever it was.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: But but it was possible.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would continue to train um in these areas when I lived in a tent in a camp for internally displaced people in South Sudan.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Again, not easy, but you could run.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: There are ways to do it.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't have to have perfect training.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to have perfect conditions.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to have that motivation and the will.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how how much do you really want it?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so I never, I never got great training.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: I never had great nutrition, but I had enough that would allow me to get these pockets of fitness so that when I got to a start line of a race, I wouldn't necessarily be performing my best, but I could perform and I could I could do as well as possible.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, for a good 10 years there, the races I was picking, the level of participation of women was so low that I would often still get on the podium, even with this this kind of training.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: And while I was always happy if I won a race or came third, you know, I really lamented the fact that that could happen on the basis of the training that I'd gotten because I knew I didn't, I didn't really earn it.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was just because the level of competition wasn't there.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, look, I I actually can't wait until I'm nowhere near the podium because the competition is so deep.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And we are definitely at that place, you know.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: I have to work a lot harder now to get on a podium.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's crazy how women's trail running has changed.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know wrong, it's still far away from where I hope it will get to, but it is so nice.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like UTMB, like watching CCC last year, like the women's field seemed to excite people way more than the men's field.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying that I want women's sport to overtake men's sport, but it's exciting that people are excited for women's sport.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because like, like we said, like um I was watching Torda Giants last year, and I watched Nor Cross Finished Line, which was incredible.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: But even then, Torge Giants, like the amount of women is still very, very small.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's incredible that women are doing it and it's proving that women can do it, but it's just really sad that there's not more women.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I was a UCS 100 miler, like there was only 10 women finished, and I'm like, where are all women?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's crazy.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's don't quote me on that.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: I may be slightly off, but I remember it was a very small number of women.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was only 10.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think only 25 started, and it's like that's insane.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: A UCMB race, 100 miler.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't be wrong, it's a tough 100 miler, but where are all the women?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, it's and it's amazing that you're putting yourself out there and representing women and showing, like, you know what, we can do it.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you've not had always ideal training conditions, but you can make it work.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's relatable to a lot of people.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we don't live in war zones, a lot of us, but it's like if there's a will, there's a way, and you can figure it out and make it fit into your life if you really want to do it.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a lot easier to make excuses and be a bit scared, which is totally understandable, but actually, we deserve to be on those start lines.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, and I do want to also recognize, you know, the fact that even though I was living in war zones, I had a job that provided me income that allowed me to travel.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, at that time I didn't have kids.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so, in some ways, I had a lot less of a burden than than a lot of um moms or or people um out there who are who want to be able to do these races, but you know, still have the majority of childcare, domestic duties, you know, all of these things, um, less income, less disposable income to be able to get to these races.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: It does take a certain amount of privilege, but it is it is improving.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, one of the, you know, one of the things that we can do to help ourselves is we can sign up for races that we aren't sure we're gonna finish.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because in general, you know, at least the research that I've seen in general, women are less likely to sign up for races unless they really know that they can finish, as opposed to to men.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: And frankly, you know, we should never be confident about finishing a 50K or 100K or 100 miler.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's a crazy distance, even having done it for so long.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: I still don't necessarily know.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think I'll be able to get to the finish line, but I think we have to encourage ourselves and each other to sign up for scary things that we aren't sure that we can finish and to not be afraid of the DNF.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, it who cares if you don't finish?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you if you do a hundred K of a hundred-mile race, that's a hundred K, you know, like in very few worlds is that considered a DNF.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's the only way we'll we'll start to see more women in the field.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: We just need to be a little bit bolder, need to be a little bit more willing to fail.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, we need more support and all the things to be able to love in the playing field, but the things that we are more in control of.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I think it would be it would be good to just create more of a culture around like, hey, let's just F and go for it.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, if we fail, we fail.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: But who cares?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: We'll try again the next time.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I completely agree.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it is that even just standing on the start line, it's seeing a photo where there's women and men.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And like, even if you don't cross that finish line, it's the start line photo that everyone sees.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying that that takes away, like obviously you want to cross that finish line, but it's just having women and people getting excited about the women being on the start line, which is just so powerful.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, there's many barriers that are somewhat within our control because we can fight for those barriers to be removed, but also somewhat out of our control.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's a lot, a lot of work to be done.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: But how did you come about working with North Face?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: And when did you kind of first sign your first pro contract?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so when I was with the the UN for for many years, you can't really do outside gigs, you know, even just you know, taking a running contract.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I was pretty limited in in what I could do when I was working for the UN, but I had the chance, I think it was during COVID.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was 2021.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had a friend who um was a bit of a kind of community manager in Chamony, um, had dealt with the North Face for many years.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, look, they're looking for people to join this Explorer team.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of, you know, athletes, but also people who aren't they don't have professional like performance obligations.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: They're not on the athlete team, but um some are competing, some are more like influencers lifestyle.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is this something you'd be interested in?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I loved um the Northeast gear for for mountain stuff, you know, it was um it was all I used for mountain stuff.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, hey, let's why not let's try it for for running stuff as well.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um so, you know, it was a it wasn't a big contract, it was a small contract that just kind of went straight to charity just because of my my UN work.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: But to be able to get in with a brand, I thought was was pretty fun.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I also tried to tried to make that relationship work for for my charity for free to run, this organization that I started in Afghanistan in 2014 that advances gender equity in um areas of conflict through running and leadership programs for women and girls.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so I basically pitched the North Face um pretty early on into my relationship with them to fund this um this project and this film idea that I had.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I wanted to, we had been talking in Free to Run for years about doing this women-led, Afghan-led expedition in the Wakon corridor in Afghanistan.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: This is one of the most remote areas of Afghanistan.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: If you think of Afghanistan as being like a fist with a thumb sticking out, um, the Wacon Corridor is the thumb.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a really high altitude area.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we just wanted to go kind of go off for a couple of weeks and do something that no one had had really done before.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so I got North Face on board to fund that project, fund a film of it, and we would kind of loop it in with me um running Tor de Glacier, this 450 kilometer race, and a couple of women from the expedition would come run one of the the shorter races um in Italy alongside me running Glacier.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean it was brilliant, and and everything was all set up to work perfectly until, of course, the Taliban took over Afghanistan and the the Wakon corridor is is based in a province called Badakshan, and Badakshan was the first province to get taken over by the Taliban.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we had to we had to shift.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: We ended up still making you know incredible film.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Free to Rent.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's still on the North Face's YouTube site and won you know dozens of awards in in film festivals.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um but that was kind of the the start.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was a a not so traditional relationship.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was to get a brand kind of back, you know, women running in Afghanistan.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: It it's not it's not a normal thing, so I was pretty grateful for for their support on that.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, after yeah, after a few years, I hadn't been running so much.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'd gotten out of the racing for three years because I was basically trying to get pregnant.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was trying to become a mom and I'd gone through multiple miscarriages and multiple failed rounds of IBF.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we were making a film about that, but we weren't really sure where it was going.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and with my racing really not there, we weren't sure kind of what that was it was there gonna be a a feature between between me and the North Face.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was pretty up in the air, to be honest, until I came back after having my finally having my my first baby and um one ultra ultra child snow dodam in May.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Six months postpartum, and I was breastfeeding at the aid stations, and a photo of that went went viral, and that really opened up a lot of doors for me and allowed me to sign my first professional athlete contract with the North Face.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I left the UN for many other reasons, but really just have gone fully into professional running at the age of 43, now 44, um, as a new mom.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm so grateful.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's it's not often that you see brands kind of willing to sign athletes at my age and postpartum.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm I'm really grateful that they have.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: And now now I'm just planning all the things, all the adventures, all the things I've ever wanted to do, but haven't been able to because of my job.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my race resume might look like I've done everything, but in my head, there's so many more things that I need to do.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm actually I'm planning out the you know the next three years until 2029 of um of all the adventures I want.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's great.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of cool.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, that is amazing.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of a funny, like, full circle moment because I was aid station team captain at UTS the year that you won it.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we in our like volunteer team captain briefing, they were like, Yeah, there's this trail runner who wants to breastfeed all the aid stations.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to like let her.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: My aid station that I was team captaining was already a supported aid station, so it didn't affect my aid station.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember when they said that, I was like, wow, that is really cool.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the first time that I came across you.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then I followed you afterwards on Instagram, and I was just like, wow, this is really cool.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because I I just never really thought about it.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I already was very passionate about women space and trail running, but I was just like, the six months after giving birth to a child to then come and do a hundred K and breastfeed at all the aid stations and win it, I was like, whoa.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I because I think I was caught up doing something, it was a really boring job.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was putting my toilet roll in the toilets and I missed you coming through.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And which aid station were you at?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Were you at the 20 or the 80?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: The or it was quite far into the race, it must have been the 80 because the 50 is also came through.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, when they said you came through, and I don't you weren't winning the race at the time because you were in the third wave, but when I found out that you won it as well, I was like, I was just mind-blown.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like and I think the uh the impact though that you had by doing that, not only did your photo go viral, which then brought on a lot of conversation about women's right and trail running, but it's also just inspiring, like to be like, actually, you know what, we can do this.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: And like whether it's an 100k race, 20k race, a 10k, it really did like stir up a lot of thoughts and excitement and really start change.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, really amazing that you did that, and also amazing they got recognized.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it's so cool that that you were there.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was funny for me at the time because I just I didn't really think too much of it.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Pepper wasn't taking a bottle at that point, and so that was just our reality.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I had to, I had to breastfeed.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think maybe she started taking a bottle a little bit in like the week or two before, but we we were really having trouble.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: And throughout all of my training, I would have to, you know, run for an hour or two, come back, breastfeed, go back out and run again.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it was just something we were we were used to.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the lactic acid, when it gets into the the breast milk, it can't, it doesn't change the nutritional value, but it can change the taste.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: So Pepper was used to it.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was used to it.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it was just a matter of of logistics for me.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: But um it did turn into, you know, quite a quite a big thing in the end, which I think is good.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, of course, Sophie Power was the you know, the first kind of viral photo moment of someone breastfeeding during a race.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: And and that was during UTMB, where she couldn't get a pregnancy deferral.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was 2018.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so she was breastfeeding at um, you know, about halfway through UTMB at just three months postpartum.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, just crazy.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the narrative around that was gosh, look, we need so much more support for women so that she doesn't have to do this.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I really wanted the narrative around what I was doing to be like, look, we we can do this, and this is a positive thing.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and we don't need to we don't need to put limits on ourselves.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now, of course, not everyone is going to be able to run 100K at six months postpartum.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm, you know, was very lucky and and it took a lot of work.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: But um the medical advice, the narrative around what postpartum moms should be doing, um, what they can take on, what they're capable of, it's very conservative and very outdated.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And luckily, there's a lot more research coming out now.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's this researcher, Dr.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Davenport, who I'm just obsessed with now, or with her research.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: And she's coming out with so much, finally, research on female athletes and female athletes who are pregnant and postpartum, showing that we can actually do way more than than what traditional conventional knowledge has told us.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that just opens up space and opens up permission for women to, if that's something that they want to do, to give it a go and to try it without feeling like they have to be sitting at home with their baby and giving up their dreams and their passions.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, we should be able to get the support and the encouragement that we need so that we we can keep doing all the things, all the things we want to do once we become moms.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true though, because like this should be normal.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like we shouldn't be shocked by women breastfeeding at aid stations.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like this should just be the normal, but unfortunately we aren't there.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just crazy that it wasn't until like 2023 that UTMB brought out their pregnancy policy.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, women have been here this whole time.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why did it take till 2023?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't remember, it's great that it finally came out, but it's like we need more to be done so that we've got the research.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like you said, it's just so much unknown.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know what is safe, what isn't, what we can push ourselves to do.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that was part of why I gave up running because after my first miscarriage, um, a lot of people kind of questioned whether it was the running that had caused it.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it it was absolutely not.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: But even just planting that seed of doubt in my mind just completely changed my relationship with running.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, if I were ever to be in that situation again, I would definitely keep running.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: I would keep racing.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, now there's more and more research to support that.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: But when you don't have that kind of backup, you're just left swimming in the dark.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you tend to go towards the most conservative advice.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it can be terrible.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: It can be terrible for not just your physical health, but also your mental health.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think the more that we can show different types of women at different stages of life and um especially moms, being able to go out and and continue to, like I say, continue to chase their dreams and do all the things that they want to do, it changes the image that we have in our minds about what moms look like, what they should be doing.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's still this narrative that, you know, we should be sitting at home with our babies and that once you're a mom, you're fulfilled.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you shouldn't want anything else.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: You shouldn't want more.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that was one of the narratives that was circulating against this idea of a pregnancy policy.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I had race directors say that to me when I would advocate for them back in the day.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: They would say, well, why should they want to race as well?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: They have a baby, you know, just concentrate on the baby and come to racing at a later stage in life.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: In what world would we say that to dads?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: We wouldn't, you know, when you become a dad, you can keep doing all the things.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: So let's find a way to support moms as well.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, definitely.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: And Peppa's gonna be able to walk around and be like, I've got a really cool mom who has done some amazing things.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure she'll think I'm just as annoying as you know, all of her kids think their parents are, but it's fine.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be an annoying running mom and I'm comfortable with that.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Peppa will get told in school, you need to stop lying that your mom has run 450 comments around some glaciers.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, honestly, I completely agree.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: And kind of going back to your free to run as well, the documentary will make sure we link it in the description because it is an incredible documentary, and I think it makes you feel incredibly grateful to be able to run and kind of ground you.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: I know my first run after watching it, I was like, wow, like don't run, there's a lot of problems in trail running, but uh the problems we face are very small compared to the barriers that they face, and it certainly makes you just be like, wow, I really need to appreciate this sport more because it is incredible that I get to do it.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: But kind of moving on to your next adventures, I have heard about your 100 miler in Antarctica, which I just want to know the who, what, where, when, how, because that is a challenge and a half.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: And again, this is part of my brain thinking, okay, you know, I've got this professional athlete contract.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: What are we going to do with it?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: And this was one of this was one of the things.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it was actually connected to Ultra Trail Snowdenia, because, you know, we're talking about all the all the positive things that came out of that viral moment, but there were some negative aspects to it as well.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: People online on social media saying, you know, this woman is so selfish.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to applaud this.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: She should be at home with her baby.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she's just out gaining attention.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if anyone has been to Ultra Trails Condonia, you know this is not the place for media.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're just out running with a bunch of sheep in the middle of Wales.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: So again, I wanted to, I wanted to push against this narrative that that new moms shouldn't be going out and doing big things.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: And Antarctica kind of came on my radar.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this race, it's a race um on Queen Maud Land.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um there's the marathon, there's the marathon course that has been running for a number of years, but now there's this Ultra.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: So competitors can do 100K, 100 miles, or run for a full 24 hours.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so far, only men have done the 24 hours and broken the 100-mile record.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: So a couple of years ago, it was two men running together.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Last year it was a guy from China, but no, no women have attempted it.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not because women aren't capable.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's because, one, it's very expensive to go to Antarctica, but also the time commitment and all the other barriers that we face in quote unquote normal trail races that's kind of um at the extremes in a place like Antarctica.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: And the more that I looked into it, the more interested I got to go down there and break the men's record.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because Antarctica used to be called the womanless continent.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, decades ago, yeah, there were um there was this narrative that there should be a place that, you know, only men could it could be a bastion, like a like an old gentleman's club, but on an entire continent.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the US Navy banned women from going to um to Antarctica until I think the late 60s.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, it was just this the more that I read about it and heard about it, I thought I need to go down there and not only, you know, put women on the map for this race.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of other women who have done incredible expeditions down in Antarctica, but you know, for this race, I want to go there, put women on the map for this race, for the hundred-mile record, for the 24-hour record, and I want to break the men's record that's there.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, I mean, it's it's not because I want to inspire a bunch of people to go to Antarctica.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's, you know, well out of the realm of um a lot of athletes.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't be able to do it without the North Face's support.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the more that we can show women doing extreme things in extreme places, it just helps widen the permission a little bit for people to take that extra step in their own backyard.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if that helps, if Snowdia helped in any way, moms give themselves the permission to go out and do something that they'd want to do, even if it was a 5K or a 10K or whatever it is.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hoping that doing something like that in Antarctica can also move the needle a little bit more.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's so true.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like it's not necessarily like we all need to go and sign up to do an ultramarathon or we all need to get on a boat to Antarctica.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm assuming you have to go on a boat to Antarctica.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: I actually don't know how you get to Antarctica.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'll tell you.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's kind of transferring that passion and those skills into our own lives.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: But how how do you train for a hundred miles in Antarctica?
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we get there by by plane, actually, from Cape Town.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's there's different ways to go to Antarctica.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the traditional way is to kind of go down to Ushuaia um down in South America and then to take a boat.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm trying to look at doing this in a way that has the least carbon footprint possible.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I am aware of the environmental concerns.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: I am aware um that this is a protected place.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so, you know, this is kind of the fastest, quickest um way of going where we're not taking a boat for three weeks and we're taking one flight, it's a four and a half hour flight.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we land on Queen Maudland at airstrip that's used by um by other established research stations in the area.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's a four point, I think four point two, four point five kilometer loop um that we will be just doing in circles for all day and all night.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it takes place in November, so that is summer down in Antarctica, so it should be daylight the entire time.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um but unlike hot weather races where you can do heat training to kind of get the blood adaptations, you can't really do cold weather training as far as I'm aware.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to train like I would for any other hundred miler.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but knowing that the conditions are just going to be really extreme, and I'm gonna have to figure out how to adapt and deal with them in real time.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because there's gonna be nowhere cold enough to be able to train and practice and test out my gear, you know, in October in the months leading up.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: I did have a a bit of a training trip up to northern Norway in April earlier this year, because I want the first woman to set foot on Antarctica was Norwegian.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: And this part of Antarctica is claimed by Norway.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted my journey to kind of start in in Norway.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I did train um in in snow and cold weather conditions, but I mean, we're talking minus five, minus 10.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're not talking minus 25 or minus 40, which it could be in the Antarctica, or with you know, the winds are kind of the biggest variable, I think, not just the temperature.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: You can get incredibly strong winds that if they come up, that would really slow me down.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Not to mention the fact that I'll be running on snow, ice, you know, all of these things um that make the times much slower than you would normally think.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I think has kind of tripped me up because I looked at the finishing times and I thought, I can run a hundred miles faster than that.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then you start thinking about it and you're like, oh no, the times are at least 20% slower than what you would normally see in a hundred miler because of the conditions.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: And who knows?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: It'll it's um, it's um kind of mixed bag of of what conditions I'll get on the day.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it might be a lot harder than I think it would be, but yeah.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know is the answer.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: I I I'm going into this knowing that I there's only a certain amount that I'll be able to prepare, and the rest will be just figuring it out.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: That is incredible.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess although it's gonna be so different, it's the same that when you get into the pain cave, it's the same mental strength that you're gonna need in any other race.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: So there's only so much you can prepare for, but then all of this racing experience you've got will kind of draw in just in a different way to normal.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, in a way, it's it's quite comforting.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's an easy kind of foray into this kind of extreme racing because I'll never be more than a couple of kilometers away from the checkpoint.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not so worried about hypothermia, losing fingers and toes, because I will be able to to check back in at a checkpoint, you know, every 4.2 kilometers.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that makes it easy in a way.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I will be using it as training for my next adventure after that, because I've signed up to the Arctic spine in northern Sweden in February.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that you are you are out on your own, you know, dragging a pulk behind you.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: You have to melt your own snow for water.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: That is where you can lose fingers and toes.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: And no woman has ever finished that race.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm kind of using Antarctica to dive into the spine.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, hopefully the spine won't be training for anything.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not signing up for anything major beyond that.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I I think that's that's the only way that you can get experience in these environments is to is to just try them and then try something bigger.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: That is amazing.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: And not many people would say, yeah, I'm using Antarctica as a training race.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um start out that way.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: But when I was training up in Norway for Antarctica, there was one trail that actually went from Norway to Sweden.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I was doing it on running snowshoes, actually.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I stayed at this little hut in Sweden overnight with no electricity, and everyone there was just well, Swedish, but so kind of hardened and used to the cold.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: And um a lot of them had done this long 500-kilometer trail before, and they weren't young athletes.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: There was a woman that I talked to who must have been in her at least mid-50s, and she had done it five times.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: And when I ended um my training run the next day, I ended in a bisco.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: And a bisco is the starting point for the Arctic spine.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I already saw what this trail was like.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: I already met some women who had done this on skis, you know, outside of race conditions.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, yeah, we need to come back.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: We need to give this a go.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was really, I was really um inspired by yeah, the these women that I met in this hut who were just so nonchalant about this 500 kilometer, this 500 kilometer trek.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, they looked at me with my running snowshoes and they said, Don't you know how to ski?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I do, but I'm trying to train for Antarctica.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they all thought it was ridiculous.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going out, I'm gonna figure out after Antarctica how to ski with a polk behind me and melt my own snow and do all the things there.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, why not?
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: We'll figure it out.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: That is one crazy adventure.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, best of luck, because that is gonna be insanely cool.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's gonna be another thing that Pepp will get told off the line for about school.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: Your mom hasn't run 500 kilometers in the snow across Norway, melting snow.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, she'll be so sick of it by then, I'm sure.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: But uh either that or she'll she'll have already done something longer and harder than than me.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Breaking your records.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, kind of to close, I'm gonna do this with August, is asking everyone to bring a piece of trail news that's kind of it might have happened recently.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: It might be a new course record, fastest known time, a new product that's come out, a new race, anything basically.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, Steph, what is your piece of trail news for the episode?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I actually want to talk about older runners.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I say old, not old, just older runners.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone would have seen or would have followed Hard Rock 100 um this past weekend.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually a board member on Hard Rock and uh have also run it twice before.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I was just overjoyed that Ludo Pomeray broke his own course record at the by a substantial amount, by 20 minutes, at the age of 50.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, everyone loves Tom Evans.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: I love Tom Evans, he's great, but I I just there's a there's a deep part of me that cheers so loudly when we have someone like Ludo, you know, still continuing to push the boundaries, push the barriers, now in his 50s, showing us all that, yeah, our careers don't stop at 40, and it doesn't have to, you know, have to be in your 20s and 30s in order.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: To break these records.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it the reason why it was important to me is because Western states this year was, I mean, the women's field was so fast, so impressive, so incredible.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: But the entire top 10 on the women's side were in their 30s.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that isn't something that we've seen in past years.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: There used to be quite a widespread of age diversity.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I just thought, huh.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it I'm still signing up to Western States.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: And like, is my potential to be able to get in the top 10 over?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: Probably.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, to then see Ludo come back at Hard Rock, and Hard Rock is a very different race than the Western States, I think was really important.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not a one-off.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was commentating um this past weekend as well for um Trail Verbier Saint Bernard by UTMB.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: I often commentate on the World Series races, and I'll be commentating on the finals as well.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: But there is one runner who a lot of um people maybe outside of Europe might not be aware of, Maud Mattis.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: She is kind of in her late 30s, Swiss one runner.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: She had won one of the Verbier races in 2009.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: So again, back in my era, 17 years ago, and this past weekend, she won the 50K by a substantial amount.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: And here's another woman, you know, longevity in the sport.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: She's not, okay, she's in her 30s, but she's a mom, older 30s.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: She's not a spring chicken, let's say.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there are good examples out there.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: Beth McKenzie, another runner who's in her 40s.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: She's got kids, and she's still, you know, getting first, breaking records.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, you know, for those of us who are worried that maybe our time for winning and for course records is over if we're past our 20s and 30s, it's not.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely not.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, that's that's that's what I want to kind of highlight and and focus on.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: And experience matters.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think we also need to recognize that in ultras, a lot of it is about problem solving.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's about um the mental aspect, it's not just pure VO2.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: So while our VO2 max might be dropping by the year, which I lament, there are our experience, our experience matters, and there's still a lot ahead for us.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, it is so true.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I was watching a live stream of Hard Rock, and Nudo was just gliding.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like he was just incredible to watch, and to take 20 minutes off his own course record at the age of 50 is insane.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was very, very cool to watch.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not an easy race.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you've got the altitude, it's horrible terrain on defeat, it's trails that are very hard to navigate.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: So to be able to manage all that and also break the course, your own course record is just yeah, totally very exciting.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: And not to mention Courtney.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Courtney is how old?
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: 40.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: She must be late 30s.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is she not in is she not 40 yet?
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: Let's fact check ourselves.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: I might be Courtney DeWalter age.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna she's 41.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: She's 41, so she's also in her 40s, you know?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: And she's still breaking course records.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, let's let's let's not lose sight of that.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: Let's not lose sight of that.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, just keep celebrating, keep celebrating those wins across the whole range of of ages.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I wanted to give a shout out, kind of I think she's your friend actually, because I believe you've done a documentary, Skelly, Sophie Grant, who is running the length of the Alks, which is insane.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember seeing her, she did like an Instagram post last night, and running in the last week 450k of 27,000 meters elevation.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, and that's just week one.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: But she's hoping to do the whole length in 30 days, which is amazing and so so cool to watch.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: So definitely check her out.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm really excited to see the rest of her adventure because she's killing it.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: She's absolutely killing it.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we did um, yeah, she's a dear friend of mine.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: We did a film together.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's out showing online at the Trail Learning Film Festival.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so a documentary called Off Course, which kind of follows our journey trying to become moms as we're also trying to maintain our identity as runners.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: And really, it's just about what you do when life throws you your curveball.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of us runners are used to kind of seeing a seeing a correlation between effort and and output.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: And when you try to become a parent, um, there's really no correlation there.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so, what do you do when you're used to having control over things when you suddenly don't have control?
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: And this adventure that Sophie is on, I think is kind of a a good part of her journey.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, she's running thousands of kilometers trying to, I think the record is 35 days.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: So she's trying to make it by five days, and her schedule is insane.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: Every day it's 60 or 70K with crazy vert.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Last night I've been sending her messages kind of late at night, you know, as she's running through the dark.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: She had a 20 kilometer descent last night, just sending her messages about nothing really, but just to let her know that, you know, I'm behind her.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: So many of us are behind her, and what she's doing is it will be record breaking.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: It already is superhuman.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: So do go follow her.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she is she's just an incredible human being.