Latest / The Kenny Report / The Kenny Report | 19 June

Transcript

The Kenny Report | 19 June · The Kenny Report

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Line from the Sky New Center. This is the Kenny Report.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining me. Blow the sirahen.
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: The main game has begun, a proper debate about the
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: energy and economic future of Australia. Peter Dutton has thrown
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: down the gauntlet proposing a nuclear age with seven nuclear
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: power stations funded by government.
• 0:23
  Speaker 4: Will now see an.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Election campaign of substance, a critical debate and an IQ
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: test for the nation. Also anti Semitism getting even worse
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: in this country, and the White House jumps the shark.
• 0:36
  Speaker 4: As it runs cover for Sleepy Joe.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Joining me tonight our National's leader David Little Proud, nuclear
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: law expert Helen Cook, founder of Nuclear for Australia, will
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: shackle One Nation leader Pauline Hanson, as well as economist
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Gigi Foster, and of course the Wednesday wrangle with Liz
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: Sturer and Justin Smith.
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: Let's get into it. The nuclear op is.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: The big policy debate this country desperately needs. One of
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: our nation's historical economic advantages has been cheap, reliable energy
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: from bountiful resources.
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: But in pursuit of net zero, we've.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Deliberately squandered that pursuing a transition to a renewables only
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: model that has never been done before by any comparable country.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: No one else is even trying. So far, it's made
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: our electricity more expensive than.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Ever and less reliable.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: It's cost hundreds of billions of dollars, it's running years
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: behind schedule, and it's running into resistance from communities objecting
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: to wind farms, solar factories and transmission lines. Worst of all,
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: even the International Energy Organization says it can't be done
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: with existing technology, but Labour pursues it regardless with religious
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: zeal and.
• 1:55
  Speaker 5: We know that renewable energy is our path to prosperity,
• 1:59
  Speaker 5: and at private will pave the way because the investment
• 2:03
  Speaker 5: from our wealth generating private sector that will progress our
• 2:06
  Speaker 5: transition to renewable power.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: That actually talk about Australia becoming a renewable energy superpower
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: as if that's a real thing, rather than a juvenile
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: slogan and an oxymoron to boot. The Coalition has identified
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: the challenge.
• 2:23
  Speaker 6: We know that the government has a renewables only policy
• 2:27
  Speaker 6: which is just not fit for purpose. No other country
• 2:29
  Speaker 6: in the world can keep the lights on twenty four
• 2:32
  Speaker 6: to seven with the renewables only policy. We need to
• 2:35
  Speaker 6: make sure that hospitals can stay on twenty four to seven.
• 2:38
  Speaker 6: We need to make sure that cold rooms can stay
• 2:41
  Speaker 6: on twenty four seven. We need to make sure that
• 2:43
  Speaker 6: our economy can function twenty four to seven, and we
• 2:46
  Speaker 6: can only do that with a strong base low power.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, with this renewable zealotry of foot, Peter Dutton has
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: proposed a bold alternative for seven nuclear power stations across
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: five states had former coal generation sites.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: It will cost.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: Tens of billions of dollars, it will rely on government
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: funding and it will demand federal and state law changes.
• 3:10
  Speaker 6: It will mean that on those end of life coal
• 3:13
  Speaker 6: fire POWERstation sites we can utilize the existing distribution network.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: This is a really important point.
• 3:19
  Speaker 6: Labour has promised twenty eight thousand klimeters of new poles
• 3:23
  Speaker 6: and wires. There's no transparency about where that will go,
• 3:27
  Speaker 6: and we've been very clear about the fact that we
• 3:29
  Speaker 6: don't believe in that model.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: Already, state premiers are running interference. Even the LNP opposition
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: in Queensland say they oppose this, obviously not wanting distractions
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: in the lead up to their October election. As for
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: the federal election, this is a game changer.
• 3:47
  Speaker 7: If mister Dutton wants a referendum on the next on
• 3:50
  Speaker 7: energy policy at the next election. We're up for that,
• 3:52
  Speaker 7: but he's got to stump up with a policy including locations,
• 3:55
  Speaker 7: costings and details.
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: He hasn't had the guts to do that.
• 4:00
  Speaker 6: Happy for the election to be a referendum on energy,
• 4:02
  Speaker 6: on nuclear, on power prices, on lights going out, on
• 4:06
  Speaker 6: who has a sustainable pathway for our country going forward.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this debate will be the federal election. Voters traditionally
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: have loved the sound of renewables and been wary of nuclear,
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: but the facts and logic stack up in favor of nuclear.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: In my Sky News documentary Going Nuclear three years ago,
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: we outlined the practical advantages of small modular reactors being
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: proposed by Rolls Royce.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: This is it.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: They're smaller than traditional fixed reactors that are built on
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: site and their modular meaning they're a standard design produced
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: in a factory. The small modular reactor perhaps coming soon
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: to an electricity grid near you. Rolls Royce will now
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: supply nuclear power packs for our nuclear submarines under Orcus.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: They'll be based and serviced in Australia, of course, which
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: exposes comments like this from labor leaders as hysterical.
• 5:04
  Speaker 8: Nuclear energy is toxic, it's risky, it's more expensive, and
• 5:10
  Speaker 8: it is decades and decades are why. And we won't
• 5:13
  Speaker 8: stand for that. We absolutely will not stand for that
• 5:16
  Speaker 8: because we know what works. What works is exactly what
• 5:21
  Speaker 8: we're doing now.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: How can labor whip up a scare campaign on nuclear
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: when it welcomes nuclear submarines for our navy.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: And then there's this.
• 5:31
  Speaker 7: We know that nuclear is too expensive, too slow to build,
• 5:35
  Speaker 7: and too risky for energy reliability.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: Well, first, how slow, expensive and risky has Bowen's renewables
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: transition turned out to be? And just how unaffordable, slow,
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: and risky can nuclear energy be? When it took the
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: United Arab Emirates only a decade to build and commission
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: their first major nuclear power station, and when world leaders
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: gathered there last year for the Climate Summit, more than
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: twenty leading nuclear nations pledged to triple their nuclear energy
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: output to get to net zero. The declaration recognized the importance, efficiency,
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: and compactness of nuclear energy, and it was signed by
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: countries who know a little bit about economic sustainability, the
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: United States, Japan, the United Kingdom, South Korea, Finland, France, Canada,
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: and others, but apparently.
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: Chris Bowen knows better and his mates from the Greens.
• 6:33
  Speaker 9: Of course, Peter Dunton can talk about nuclear as much
• 6:38
  Speaker 9: as he likes, but it's not going to happen. If
• 6:41
  Speaker 9: I wanted to tune into a fantasy, I'd watch Lord
• 6:44
  Speaker 9: of the Rings. Peter Dutton can't form government at the
• 6:48
  Speaker 9: next election and he can't repeal the nuclear ban in
• 6:52
  Speaker 9: the Senate.
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: Just illogical stuff, not rational, just emotional and highly political.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: In Finland, nuclear supplies at least twenty percent of their power.
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: The Greens supported.
• 7:05
  Speaker 10: The turn in the Finnish Green Party happened really quickly.
• 7:09
  Speaker 10: Was about in four years that we went from a
• 7:14
  Speaker 10: complete opposition to a neutral stance where it is now.
• 7:18
  Speaker 10: So there's no anti nuclear stuff in the principles of
• 7:22
  Speaker 10: the party. It's very technology neutral.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: And nuclear energy has strong support from more than two
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: thirds of the population.
• 7:31
  Speaker 11: At the moment, majority of voters in every party, of
• 7:33
  Speaker 11: every party are in favor.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: For Greens a bit more than half are positive.
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, two thirds support from all voters and about forty
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: percent of Greens voters actually want.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: More nuclear power in Finland.
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: So the politics of this debate are changing.
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: They've changed because of the climate debate and the end
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: of the Cold War, and because people are more technological minded,
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: and because practical experience shows there's no feasible alternative if
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: you want to cut emissions. Under the Coalition plan, the
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: first small modular reactor could be in place in Australia
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: by twenty thirty five, or a larger plant two years later.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: We'll need to hear more on costings.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: But even if the nuclear plants cost an average of
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: ten billion dollars each, that's only a fraction of the
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: cost of the renewable energy plan likely to cost more
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: than ten times that amount, and state governments would soon
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: come on board if the Coalition won with this plan.
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: Of course, the truth is the only problem with this
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: nuclear plan is that we've wasted too much time and
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: too much money fiddling around.
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: With renewables when nuclear was the.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: Obvious option all along.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: Now this will be a major debate with many angles,
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: lots of misinformation and scares, and there'll be ebbs and flows.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: It amounts to an IQ test for the nation. Instead
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: of treating voters like idiots, Peter Dutton and the Coalition
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: detailing a big agenda that will demand some scrutiny, and
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: they're expecting voters to be smart.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Enough to weigh it all up.
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: Duton is offering the nation a chance to win back
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: its energy advantage. There'll be two energy plans on offer
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: at the upcoming federal election, the Labour Greens and Till
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: plan of renewables plus storage or the Coalition plan of
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: nuclear with renewables buttressed by gas. Both plans deliver a
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: dramatic shift from fossil fuels to net zero emissions. Both
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: plans will take decades, that's fine, The target is twenty fifty.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: Both plans are expensive, although the renewable plan is much
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: more expensive than nuclear.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Only one plan requires.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: Industrial scale projects and transmission lines crisscrossing the nation. That's
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: the Labour, Greens and Till renewables plan. Only one plan
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: is exp mental and risky. That's the labor Greens and
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: Tills renewables only planned because no other country has even
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: been gained to try it. The Coalition nuclear plan uses
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: the latest versions of proven technology that's operated efficiently, affordably
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: and safely in modern sophisticated economies for decades.
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: So this really is a no brainer. If you want
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: reliable power without emissions.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: You must go nuclear.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: Labor, the Greens, the Tials, the unions, activists and the
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: big money of renewable energy investors. They'll try to kill
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: off nuclear for their own benefit. So, as I said,
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: this will be an IQ test for the nation. Peter
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: Dutton has given us at once in a generation opportunity
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: to make a rational decision and modernize our nation.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: I hope we're up for the debate.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: The disgraceful attack on the Melbourne electorate office of Federal
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: Labor Jewish MP Josh Burns goes to show what a
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: problem we have with anti Semitism in this country. Burns
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: tragically has been let down by his own party really
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: and his own leader, with the Albanezy Labor government along
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: with state labor governments simply not doing enough to stand
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: up against anti Semitism, to call out pro Hummus hate preaching,
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: or to stand up against the very idea of Islamism.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Apart from the usual threatening and bigoted graffiti, what was
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: most disturbing about the attack on Burns's electorate office in
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: Saint Kilda was that windows were smashed and there were
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: attempts to set fire to the building.
• 11:42
  Speaker 12: No amount of aggression and violence here in Australia is
• 11:47
  Speaker 12: going to change what's happening in the Middle East.
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: But Burn's response is also broader and goes to the
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: horrible social division and intimidation we're seeing in this country.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: Since Muslim community leaders and pro Palestinian protesters actually celebrated
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: the horrific terrorists slaughter of more than twelve hundred innocent
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: Israelis on October the seventh last year, we've now had
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: eight months of intimidation, threats, and targeting of Jewish Australians.
• 12:16
  Speaker 12: The Australia that I grew up in was an Australia
• 12:18
  Speaker 12: of multiculturalism, of where the Jewish community could express themselves,
• 12:23
  Speaker 12: could proudly walk down the street, not thinking about where
• 12:27
  Speaker 12: they were, but just participating in Australian life.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: I get sick of saying this. I get sick of
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: the inaction. Seen nothing like this in my lifetime in
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: this country. An open assault on our values as a
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: tolerant nation, and a Prime minister and premiers and law
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: enforcement authorities doing virtually nothing actually standing by. I'll have
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: more on this tomorrow night, the ideology behind this and
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: the weakness in the face of it from our politicians.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: But suffice to say that what's happened to Josh Burns
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: and his staff and therefore the community in Saint Kilda,
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: this is another warning sign, a clear signal that our
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: leaders need to stand up.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: I have to give you an update from the United
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: States and an astonishing case of denial and propaganda coming
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: directly from.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: The White House.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: We saw the White House Press Secretary kauerin Jean Pierre
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: yesterday effectively telling us not to believe our own eyes
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: when we see.
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: The president frozen or wandering or.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: Confused, and she seems to be upset by video montages
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: like this one.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Well, don't forget anyway. I just think that.
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: Florida small business winner of Wardek Winners Balla Institutions.
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just excruciating stuff, isn't it.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: But after the stage freeze the other day in Barack
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: Obama having to win Devene, the White House now blames
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: all the doubts and the criticism of Joe Biden on
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: fake videos.
• 14:20
  Speaker 13: It tells you everything that we need to know about
• 14:23
  Speaker 13: how desperate, how desperate Republicans are here. And instead of
• 14:29
  Speaker 13: talking about the President's performance in office and what I
• 14:32
  Speaker 13: mean by that is as legislative wins. What he's been
• 14:34
  Speaker 13: able to do for the American people across the country.
• 14:37
  Speaker 13: We're seeing these deep figs, these manipulated videos.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: Wow, really, the president is actually fine, but the media
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: is just faking up these videos.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: This is the White House jumping the shark. How desperate
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: are they? Now?
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Here are just a few clips, no music, no slow mos,
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: and no tricks, and there are dozens more where they
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: came from. When the White House has to spin lies
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: to hide the reality of a senile president, it's a
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: pretty sad time for the administration. As I keep saying,
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: he can't run. Surely they can't run him. America deserves better.
• 16:06
  Speaker 11: Now.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: I mentioned my twenty twenty one documentary Going Nuclear. We
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: open that film with nuclear energy legal expert Helen Cook,
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: who's worked around the world on nuclear projects. She was
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: with her newborn baby, Georgina as she pondered our climate
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: and energy future.
• 16:26
  Speaker 14: Good care, wonderful little cab.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: Every mother wants a safe, healthy, and prosperous future for
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: her child.
• 16:38
  Speaker 15: I want her to breathe clean air. I want her
• 16:42
  Speaker 15: to not suffer through devastating impacts of climate change. And
• 16:46
  Speaker 15: if we're going to move away from coal, and if
• 16:48
  Speaker 15: we care about climate change, the only technology that we
• 16:51
  Speaker 15: currently have today which can replace that fossil fuel generation
• 16:55
  Speaker 15: is nuclear energy. We have every reason to be able
• 17:01
  Speaker 15: to develop nuclear energy capabilities in the future and to
• 17:05
  Speaker 15: be able to have nuclear energy as an option, but
• 17:08
  Speaker 15: we need to start that work now.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: That was just under three years ago. Helen Cook now
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: joins me in the studio. Helen, great to see you again.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: Plenty has happened since then. First up, how's Georgina going.
• 17:20
  Speaker 15: She's great, She's almost three years old, and I have
• 17:22
  Speaker 15: a second child now as well.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: It's always one congratulations, fantastic.
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: Now what a day today, an announcement like this?
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: What do you make of it?
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: Is that we've known has been coming, but here it
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: is on the table seven fixed at nuclear power stations
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: in this country, proposed by the coalition. Do you see
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: it as a feasible and the right debate to have.
• 17:40
  Speaker 15: I do see it as feasible, and I think it's
• 17:42
  Speaker 15: a debate that's been long cooming, but one that we
• 17:45
  Speaker 15: must have. I saw today a policy that outlines what
• 17:49
  Speaker 15: I believe to be a credible pathway to net zero
• 17:52
  Speaker 15: by twenty fifty. That includes an important role for a
• 17:55
  Speaker 15: cold nuclear transition. And I think also Chris at and
• 18:01
  Speaker 15: recognizes the contribution that our coal communities have been making
• 18:04
  Speaker 15: to our reliable electricity grid for decades now, and it
• 18:09
  Speaker 15: realized that it told us that there is a path,
• 18:13
  Speaker 15: a future path for them to transition from coal to nuclear.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: Now, you've been involved in developing legal and regulatory frameworks
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: for nuclear projects around the world. If the coalition the
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: form government, it would.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Be effectively twenty twenty five.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: They're saying they could deliver a reactor the first one
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: by twenty thirty five, just one decade.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Is that feasible?
• 18:39
  Speaker 15: I think it's ambitious, but I do think it's feasible.
• 18:42
  Speaker 15: And I think when we look at why it's feasible,
• 18:45
  Speaker 15: we need to appreciate that we have been a nuclear
• 18:48
  Speaker 15: nation for seventy years, and we have been regulating our
• 18:51
  Speaker 15: nuclear assets for that long. We have in place today
• 18:56
  Speaker 15: an agency that covers nuclear security and nuclear safeguard. We
• 19:00
  Speaker 15: have in place today and established nuclear regulatory authority that
• 19:04
  Speaker 15: oversees nuclear safety. And these regulatory bodies have international reputations
• 19:10
  Speaker 15: and highly credible ones. And if we were to move
• 19:13
  Speaker 15: down a nuclear power plant path, yes, we would need
• 19:17
  Speaker 15: to adapt these frameworks to make sure that they are
• 19:20
  Speaker 15: fit for purpose for nuclear power, but we would be
• 19:23
  Speaker 15: adapting and building.
• 19:24
  Speaker 11: On what we have.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: So instead of starting from scratch, we would take ANNSTOE
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: that runs Lucas Heights, the Scientific and Medical Reactor, and
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: just expand its remittan authority and obviously have to bring
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: in more expertise.
• 19:35
  Speaker 15: So our pans as the nuclear regulator of Ensto's activities, Yes, exactly,
• 19:40
  Speaker 15: we would take what it has today, it's human resources,
• 19:42
  Speaker 15: the laws, the regulations, and we would build upon that
• 19:46
  Speaker 15: adapt it for nuclear power.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: Now, the other point, of course, is that the currently
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: legislative bands as a federal ban.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Now, presumably you win government.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: As a federal government with this proposition, you could overturn
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: that ban.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: You might have to struggle in the Senate.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Let's say that they get rid of that ban.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: What about state governments holding out? How much of a
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: problem is that Queensland, New South Wales and Victoria.
• 20:07
  Speaker 15: I think it's a political problem that needs to be
• 20:09
  Speaker 15: solved and there will be probably political solutions to it.
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: Well, we've got labor governments in all three states at
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: the moment.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: The LNP and Queensland say they opposed, that they might
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: change their mind after the election, But wouldn't there be
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: a certain amount of political impetus.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Is a federal government one.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: Power with this policy, surely the states would have to
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: look at doing deals with it.
• 20:29
  Speaker 15: I think that's what I heard Peter Dutton say this morning,
• 20:32
  Speaker 15: that there would be I think he said there'd be
• 20:34
  Speaker 15: money on the table. There would be hopefully communities that
• 20:37
  Speaker 15: have the ability to negotiate highly powerful incentives and benefits
• 20:44
  Speaker 15: packages for those communities that will bring jobs to the region,
• 20:47
  Speaker 15: bring new industries to the region, and as I said
• 20:50
  Speaker 15: at the start, recognize the contribution that these communities have
• 20:54
  Speaker 15: made to the electricity grid as we have it today,
• 20:59
  Speaker 15: and that we need to see a credible pathway for
• 21:02
  Speaker 15: them for their future as well.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: Now you're not an economist, but in your work you
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: must have had to deal with the commercial realities, the
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: financial viability of the projects you've been involved in. That
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: does it stack up for Australia compared to the renewables
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: plus storage model.
• 21:19
  Speaker 15: Look, when I talk about anything to do with the
• 21:21
  Speaker 15: commercial realities, I think the most important thing is to
• 21:24
  Speaker 15: assess all of the technology options on their merits, and
• 21:27
  Speaker 15: you know this is across the board, or they're talking
• 21:29
  Speaker 15: about risk or safety or economics. We need to make
• 21:32
  Speaker 15: sure that we're actually comparing apples to apples, and I
• 21:35
  Speaker 15: don't think that we have seen a fair assessment of
• 21:38
  Speaker 15: an apples to apples comparison. Yet certainly the gen Cost
• 21:42
  Speaker 15: Report doesn't do that.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean obviously because nuclear lasts eighty years or
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: more exactly, so the investment is paid back over a
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: much longer period of time. That's the debate we're all
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: going to get into in the coming months.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: You're glad it's underway.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Problems I am.
• 21:53
  Speaker 15: I am, Chris, bring it on.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: Great stuff. Thanks for joining us, Helen. I appreciate it.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: Helen Cook, their nuclear law expert who's walked all around
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: the world and will be an important part of this debate,
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: no doubt going forward. Just on my documentary, that Sky
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: News documentary from twenty twenty one, it's still available if
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: you want to subscribe to the Sky News app. There's
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: the QR code there if you want to subscribe. But
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: if you're already on board, look around the doco section.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: You can catch up on what we did three years ago.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: We were really talking about this debate needing to happen.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: It's now upon us. Now we'll take a quick break.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: On the other side of that, I'm going to catch
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: up with David little Proud, the Nationals leader, get his
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: reaction to what Chris Bowen's been saying, the bloke who
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: seems to be running the main scare campaign against nuclear
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: This nuclear debate is going to be a cracker. As
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: you know, I've been on about it for many, many years,
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: but now that it's on properly, it's going to be fascinating.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: But it's going to take a lot of work to
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: sort the wheat from the chaff. Having a listen to
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: this from Treasurer Jim Chalmers.
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: Today, with Australia's advantages and opportunities, nothing could be more
• 23:00
  Speaker 5: economically irrational or fiscally irresponsible. Nuclear takes longer, it costs more,
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: and it would waste Australia's unique combination of geological, geographical,
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: geopolitical and meteorological advantages. It might be the dumbest policy
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: ever put forward by a major political party. It is
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: the worst combination of economic and ideological stupidity.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: It is hard to believe that that man is Treasurer,
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: because that may have been the dumbest little summary of
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: our energy debate that I have ever heard. He could
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: have been actually describing his own government's plans to replace
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: our fossil fuel energy system with a renewables something that's
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: never been done before in the world. Let me bring
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: in National's leader, David little Proud It joins us live
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: from the Sydney CBD.
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: Thanks for joining us, David, this is extraordinary.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know what they're pretending here. Labour says, we
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: have all the advantages for renewables. We're the only place
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: in the world, are we where there's wind and sunshine?
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 24:08
  Speaker 7: Look, Jim Chalmer's contribution there was arrogant and condescending, not
• 24:12
  Speaker 7: fitting of a treasurer prepared to have a mature conversation,
• 24:15
  Speaker 7: a mature debate about the energy path that they've taken
• 24:19
  Speaker 7: us facing up to the facts of what the lived
• 24:21
  Speaker 7: experience of Australians is today, about the money that's been
• 24:24
  Speaker 7: bled out of their wallets, about the unreliability of our
• 24:27
  Speaker 7: manufacturing sector, the fact that they've spent six and a
• 24:30
  Speaker 7: half billion dollars just from federal subsidies alone in the
• 24:33
  Speaker 7: last two budgets to try and achieve a two hundred
• 24:36
  Speaker 7: and seventy five dollars reduction that Albanezi promised before the
• 24:40
  Speaker 7: last election, and that your bill has gone up at
• 24:43
  Speaker 7: a household level over a seven hundred and fifty dollars
• 24:47
  Speaker 7: above that. So we want to have a sensible conversation
• 24:52
  Speaker 7: about this. We want to be the leaders that have
• 24:55
  Speaker 7: the conviction of our courage. Peter Dutton and I as
• 24:58
  Speaker 7: today laid down the first step, the very first step,
• 25:01
  Speaker 7: and we wanted to make sure we showed respect to
• 25:02
  Speaker 7: those seven communities to start that consultation process and to
• 25:06
  Speaker 7: say to Australians that instead of subsidizing all these multinational
• 25:11
  Speaker 7: renewable energy companies coming in lasting less than twenty years,
• 25:14
  Speaker 7: packing up and leaving, taking their money, we want to
• 25:17
  Speaker 7: move back to some Australian ownership of them having an
• 25:21
  Speaker 7: investment and a legacy, a legacy not just for my
• 25:23
  Speaker 7: kids but for my grandkids that I can look back
• 25:26
  Speaker 7: and say, the privileged position I've been given to come
• 25:28
  Speaker 7: to this Parliament, I've left something behind that they and
• 25:32
  Speaker 7: my fellow Australians will enjoy. And Peter Dutton on the
• 25:35
  Speaker 7: National Party's probably been on this just as long as
• 25:37
  Speaker 7: you Chris, you've been a long proponent of this. But
• 25:39
  Speaker 7: Peter Dutton is the first Liberal leader to have the
• 25:41
  Speaker 7: courage to stand up and to stand for something. And
• 25:44
  Speaker 7: I was proud to stand next to Peter Dutton today.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: That was courage.
• 25:48
  Speaker 7: That's political leadership. That's the strength of leadership that the
• 25:51
  Speaker 7: National and Liberal Party will take the next election. We're
• 25:53
  Speaker 7: prepared to put our and test our conviction of our
• 25:57
  Speaker 7: courage with the Australian people because there is a better
• 25:59
  Speaker 7: way than this all renewables madness. We're feeling that not
• 26:03
  Speaker 7: just in our wallets but also in a regional era
• 26:05
  Speaker 7: for what's being torn up in our landscape and our
• 26:08
  Speaker 7: productive areas. There's a better way and we're putting that
• 26:11
  Speaker 7: forward today.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: Now, there are many hurdles to overcome before you can
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: implement that overall plan. Now one of those is winning
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: an election, and then you've got to get rid of
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: the federal ban through get it through a Senate.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: That's never easy. But I want to focus on state
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: governments too.
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: You might be able to play ball with Peter malanowskis
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: the labor Premier in South Australia. There's no legislative ban
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: there and he's happy to deal with it if the
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: numbers stack up.
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: But what about your own state of Queensland, where the
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: LMP say.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: They would oppose nuclear power.
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: Now we can understand David christ of fully doesn't want
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: a distraction during his state election campaign on nuclear Surely
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: you would expect that if he becomes premier the lmpter
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: and government in Queensland, he would overturn that view.
• 26:55
  Speaker 7: Well, you'd hope. So Australians want leadership. They want their
• 26:58
  Speaker 7: politicians to stand for something. Peter and I are going
• 27:00
  Speaker 7: to stand for something. And if we're given that mandate
• 27:02
  Speaker 7: and that honored by the Australian people, then we would
• 27:05
  Speaker 7: expect whoever's premier of whatever state, that they would acknowledge
• 27:09
  Speaker 7: that mandate in knowing that we have to make the
• 27:12
  Speaker 7: decisions for the greater good of this nation. We have
• 27:14
  Speaker 7: an integrated energy system on the East Coast, in particularly
• 27:17
  Speaker 7: and with South Australia, and it's important that we make
• 27:20
  Speaker 7: those decisions for the greater good and that they help
• 27:24
  Speaker 7: us in a constructive way. That's what people want out
• 27:26
  Speaker 7: of their politicians. They want them to stand for something
• 27:29
  Speaker 7: and they when the Australian people have made that determination.
• 27:32
  Speaker 7: They expect us at all levels to work together constructively
• 27:36
  Speaker 7: to get on with the job. And that's what we
• 27:38
  Speaker 7: intend to do. We don't want to have to bully
• 27:40
  Speaker 7: our way into this. Peter Dutton and I we believe
• 27:42
  Speaker 7: in this. We believe in this passionately, and that's why
• 27:44
  Speaker 7: we've taken this first step today and we would expect
• 27:47
  Speaker 7: state premiers respect that mandate if we're given the honor
• 27:51
  Speaker 7: to have one after the next federal election, and we
• 27:53
  Speaker 7: get on and move because the time to do it
• 27:56
  Speaker 7: is critical and the time to do it is now.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: Now you've made some big calls, you say you'd scre
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: that's Illawarra offshore wind project if you won government. There'll
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: be people up at Port Stevens Off the Newcastle, the
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: Hunter area wanting a similar process, a proper promise for
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: that to offshore wind project. We'll see where all that
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: ends up. But if you were to win government this
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: plan we've you would scrap that one as well.
• 28:20
  Speaker 7: Right, but we've already given Port Stephen Now I've made
• 28:22
  Speaker 7: that commitment. That's technology that's actually floating two hundred and
• 28:26
  Speaker 7: sixty meter wind towers that has never been done to
• 28:30
  Speaker 7: that scale in the world before, so.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: I understand they get the same promise to so just
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: let me take it this step further.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Under your plan, there'd be nuclear.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Renewables wouldn't disappear, There'd still be a big input of
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: renewable energy, and there would be gas peaking to peek
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: up when demand requires it. My question is how much
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: more of this large scale renewable roll out would you tolerate.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Is it to be capped round about what we've got
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: now or would there still be a large investment in
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: large scale renewable.
• 29:00
  Speaker 7: Well, this makes a significant dent in any further significant
• 29:03
  Speaker 7: increase that, particularly what the government is under an all
• 29:06
  Speaker 7: renewables approach. We're going to release our overall mix. I
• 29:09
  Speaker 7: think there is a place for renewables, but what has
• 29:11
  Speaker 7: been done with renewables at the moment. It's been done
• 29:13
  Speaker 7: near existing transmission lines, the love hanging Fruit's been done,
• 29:16
  Speaker 7: and now the burden is being born on regional Australians
• 29:20
  Speaker 7: to go beyond that. And if we do want to
• 29:22
  Speaker 7: look at this, I think there's an opportunity for us
• 29:24
  Speaker 7: to explore partnering with what the States give at the
• 29:27
  Speaker 7: moment helping with some household battery or some business battery
• 29:31
  Speaker 7: in populated areas, in urban areas to give them some
• 29:34
  Speaker 7: energy independence. But we need to make sure that we
• 29:37
  Speaker 7: get the mixed right and there will be a clear
• 29:39
  Speaker 7: delineation between an all renewables approach to one that has
• 29:42
  Speaker 7: a transition aally transition of some of our coal fired
• 29:45
  Speaker 7: power stations to nuclear with gas and ccs in the
• 29:49
  Speaker 7: right place and a mix of renewables. But we want
• 29:52
  Speaker 7: to get that mix right that's the most affordable and
• 29:54
  Speaker 7: make sure that we underpin manufacturing in this country because
• 29:58
  Speaker 7: you can't keep subsidizing manufacturing this country to keep it
• 30:01
  Speaker 7: open because absolutely Australian taxpayers money runs out.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us, David, I appreciate it, David little
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: proud there on a big day for the coalition with
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: this massive debate now on for young and old. Will
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: have more on the proposed seven nuclear power stations after
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: this break.
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: Also we'll check in on the Reserve Bank raising.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: Alarm over governments and big spending budgets right across this country.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: One of the things we've focused on here for a
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: long time on this program is how our politicians and
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: our governments are actually responsible for much of the cost
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: of living crisis. That is, their big spending over a
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: long period has fueled the inflation that's pushing interest rates up.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: And keeping them higher.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: They don't like to talk about that, but they are
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: actually helping to create the problem.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: The Reserve Bank Governor yesterday hinted at this when she
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: explained why instead of looking to cut rates they actually
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: considered increasing them again before leaving them on hold for now.
• 31:00
  Speaker 14: Part of the reason why inflation is holding up is
• 31:02
  Speaker 14: because demand is holding up. We're going to have to
• 31:04
  Speaker 14: take into account a lot of the new information from
• 31:07
  Speaker 14: the national accounts, the budgets, the labor market, and new
• 31:11
  Speaker 14: inflation information.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: That's got a Gigi Foster, professor of economics at the
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: University of New South Wales, Good.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: To talk to you again, Gigi.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: It seems pretty clear from what the Reserve Bank Governor
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: has been saying that not just what we saw in
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: the last federal budget, but we've had Coeensland, Victoria, New
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: South Wales all with this debt field spending.
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: This is exactly what is going to keep inflation high.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Isn't it.
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: The government's pumping more money into the system.
• 31:38
  Speaker 16: Yeah, Look Chris, it's a continuation in a small scale
• 31:42
  Speaker 16: of what we saw during the COVID era, when, as
• 31:44
  Speaker 16: you very correctly said, the government's kind of kicked off
• 31:47
  Speaker 16: this inflationary era by pumping money into the economy while
• 31:51
  Speaker 16: essentially telling business as they couldn't trade. That's a recipe
• 31:55
  Speaker 16: for creating inflationary conditions, which we've talked about before, and
• 31:58
  Speaker 16: now we're seeing the results of that. And of course
• 32:00
  Speaker 16: people are struggling and governments, particularly in Australia, are expected
• 32:05
  Speaker 16: to take care of struggling people, and so the governments
• 32:08
  Speaker 16: in the States as well as the Commonwealth feel politically
• 32:11
  Speaker 16: compelled to write checks, and their writing checks particularly to
• 32:15
  Speaker 16: the lower income fraction of our population. And I do
• 32:18
  Speaker 16: think that if you're going to write checks, those are
• 32:20
  Speaker 16: the right people to write them too. But the problem
• 32:23
  Speaker 16: is we've now got this persistent model in our minds
• 32:26
  Speaker 16: that when there's a problem, the government has to come
• 32:29
  Speaker 16: in on their white horse and stimulate us out of
• 32:32
  Speaker 16: the problem. You know, we'll make a subsidies decisions or
• 32:35
  Speaker 16: have some kind of rebate or something. Writing money checks
• 32:39
  Speaker 16: that's easy for a government to do. It's a lot
• 32:41
  Speaker 16: harder is to solve the structural problems in Australia's economy
• 32:44
  Speaker 16: and to scale back the scale of the public enterprise.
• 32:48
  Speaker 16: That's very, very difficult politically.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: Now this is all going to get a little worse
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: season it or is there a question mark over that?
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: Over the next couple of months, we'll get tax cuts
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: feeding in and energy read by.
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: It is kicking insight.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: Presumably, people, especially if the budgets are taught, are going
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: to spend all of that money.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: That's right, And of.
• 33:04
  Speaker 16: Course we worry more about that. I suppose for the
• 33:07
  Speaker 16: higher income earners who are going to maybe be less
• 33:12
  Speaker 16: constrained and so they actually may spend more. Usually we
• 33:15
  Speaker 16: think that a dollar to a low income person is
• 33:18
  Speaker 16: more likely to be spent. But because everybody in those
• 33:21
  Speaker 16: low income brackets these days is struggling so much, I'm
• 33:24
  Speaker 16: not sure it's going to be as inflationary as otherwise.
• 33:27
  Speaker 16: But yeah, I've been predicting that we are not going
• 33:28
  Speaker 16: to see a rate cut this year because again Michelle
• 33:32
  Speaker 16: Bullock is not looking just at CPI right, She's looking
• 33:35
  Speaker 16: at labor market figures, as she said, She's looking at
• 33:37
  Speaker 16: many different indicators, including what's happening overseas and when these
• 33:41
  Speaker 16: governments are continuing to splash money around, even if it
• 33:44
  Speaker 16: is to try to help people with the cost of living,
• 33:48
  Speaker 16: there is a tendency for that to be inflationary. There's
• 33:50
  Speaker 16: just no way around that. And as you know, we
• 33:52
  Speaker 16: are already kind of in a recession. If you look
• 33:54
  Speaker 16: at GDP per capita figures. They don't like to think
• 33:57
  Speaker 16: about this, and there's papered over by the high immigration
• 34:00
  Speaker 16: that we've had, but that's the reality. So we kind
• 34:03
  Speaker 16: of are already experiencing the economic distress that the government's caused,
• 34:08
  Speaker 16: starting with the COVID policy fiasco. And there's no really
• 34:11
  Speaker 16: easy way out.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: There's no easy way out.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: There's only painful ways out, and they've got to be
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: brave as well as inflict that pain.
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: Fascinating stuff. Thanks for joining us, Gigi, I appreciate it.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: Gigi Foster, the economics professor at University of New South Wales.
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: Let's get back into the nuclear debate.
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: And it's almost eighteen months to the day since I
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: first interviewed an impressive young bloke, Will Shackle.
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: He's still in his last.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: Year at high school now and he took the initiative
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: to start nuclear for Australia promoting nuclear power as a
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: safe and reliable energy source, and for his efforts, of
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: course he's got the.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Fair bit of backlash.
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: He joined me earlier today from outside the Lucas Heights
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: Scientific Reactor on Sydney's southern outskirts and reflected on his
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: Nuclear for Australia advocacy.
• 34:56
  Speaker 11: Well, it's been over a year now, Chris. But since
• 34:58
  Speaker 11: then we've grown into the largest grass reads movement for
• 35:00
  Speaker 11: nuclear power in Australia. We've got close to fifty thousand supporters,
• 35:06
  Speaker 11: many many people who've signed our petition to lift the
• 35:08
  Speaker 11: ban on nuclear power. And I'm now really glad that
• 35:11
  Speaker 11: we've got an expert group of Australia's leading nuclear experts
• 35:15
  Speaker 11: which are helping us lead the way and share facts
• 35:18
  Speaker 11: in information with people around Australia to help boost nuclear
• 35:21
  Speaker 11: literacy and help people understand the real benefits nuclear power
• 35:25
  Speaker 11: presents to Australia.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: It's been quite a ride.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: For you while you're completing your high school studies and
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: you went to the cop meeting in Dubai and you've
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: got all this happening in the political debate unfolding.
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: You must be overwhelmed by just how much the issue
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: has taken off as long with your organization it is.
• 35:44
  Speaker 11: It is quite overwhelming, But I don't think it's a
• 35:46
  Speaker 11: surprise and it shouldn't have just been me. There's been
• 35:49
  Speaker 11: many people in Australia which for a very long time
• 35:51
  Speaker 11: have been advocating for nuclear power, many many experts. Their
• 35:55
  Speaker 11: views might have not been heard for us too long,
• 35:58
  Speaker 11: but now they're finally getting a chance to speak about
• 36:00
  Speaker 11: what they really care about. But it's been absolutely mind
• 36:03
  Speaker 11: blowing for me personally, the fact that a majority of
• 36:06
  Speaker 11: Australians according to the most recent polls support nuclear power,
• 36:10
  Speaker 11: voters from both major political parties according to the Lowe Institute.
• 36:14
  Speaker 11: It's really, I think a positive development and I think
• 36:17
  Speaker 11: it creates a natural pathway for the bands on nuclear
• 36:21
  Speaker 11: power to hopefully be lifted.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Well, it's an incredible debate to have now.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: With Peter Dutton's announcement of seven sites, seven proposed nuclear
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: power stations in this country, it means it's going to
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: be the central issue going up to the next federal election.
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: Laborer locking in to oppose this. How do you see
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: the debate playing out and what do you think the
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: chances are that we could see a sweeping endorsement of
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: both Peter Dutton and this nuclear energy policy.
• 36:48
  Speaker 11: I think it will be interesting. Obviously it's a very
• 36:50
  Speaker 11: very detailed policy. I think that was evident in the
• 36:53
  Speaker 11: fact that the press conference went for a very very
• 36:55
  Speaker 11: long time, and there are certain details which are going
• 36:57
  Speaker 11: to have to be worked out with the consultant of
• 37:00
  Speaker 11: experts to make sure that this is the right policy
• 37:02
  Speaker 11: for Australia and the right pathway. But it's an incredibly
• 37:05
  Speaker 11: positive development that a major political party in Australia is
• 37:10
  Speaker 11: finally committed to first of all lifting the bands on
• 37:13
  Speaker 11: nuclear power, but actually developing reactors in Australia. I think
• 37:17
  Speaker 11: the unfortunate thing is you would want to have bipartisanship
• 37:20
  Speaker 11: in this. There's no reason why people from all sides
• 37:23
  Speaker 11: of politics should be getting around clean, reliable, always on
• 37:27
  Speaker 11: safe electricity in the form of nuclear power. But currently
• 37:30
  Speaker 11: they're defending the nineties era, out of touch, outdated band
• 37:35
  Speaker 11: that was introduced on nuclear power which restricts us from
• 37:38
  Speaker 11: even having the option of considering it in our electricity grid,
• 37:41
  Speaker 11: and that needs to be addressed. What we're currently seeing
• 37:45
  Speaker 11: is instead of a fact based, mature discussion about nuclear
• 37:48
  Speaker 11: power is a fear campaign orchestrated by the government and
• 37:52
  Speaker 11: their proxies in the environmental movement, who have been blinded
• 37:56
  Speaker 11: to the fact that nuclear power could really help us
• 37:59
  Speaker 11: to carbonize and are instead releasing misinformation and trying to fear.
• 38:05
  Speaker 11: Among the posting pictures of green blowing koalas is something
• 38:10
  Speaker 11: I saw yesterday from the Conservation Foundation. The Labor Party
• 38:14
  Speaker 11: even had an AI generated image of a nuclear power
• 38:17
  Speaker 11: station behind the Sidney Opera house with a big mushroom
• 38:20
  Speaker 11: part above it. So these leaders at the moment, I'm
• 38:23
  Speaker 11: not engaging in good faith and we really must have
• 38:26
  Speaker 11: I pure discussion of nuclear power for the best future
• 38:30
  Speaker 11: for our nation.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: Wise words Will, Will, You've got the debate you want to.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: Congratulations on your advocacy. We'll see where it all ends up.
• 38:38
  Speaker 11: Thank you, Chris.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's right.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: Bipartisan approach would be best, but we ain't going to
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: see that in Australia at the moment, are we. By
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: the way, I was down that way with my lads
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: on the weekend playing footy, so we took them to
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: Lucas Heights to poke around and show them a real
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: live nuclear reactor. It's been doing great work for science
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: and for medicine in that part of the world since
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: the nineteen fifties. And there's three legged kangaroos or anything
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: wandering around there.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: It's time we grew up.
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: Stick around after.
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: The breakwall, thrash out the nuclear debate with the Wednesday Wrangle.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: Also we'll chat about Jerry Seinfeld. He's faced another pro
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: Palestinian Heckler on his Aussie tour.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's wrangle.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: We've got late debate co host Liz Storer here in
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: the studio, and as ever, we've got to columnist and
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: commentator Justin Smith in Melbourne.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: I'm the green maggot in the middle.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: I'm going to toss up the ball nuclear debate and
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: you guys can open up the game.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: What do you reckon? Justin?
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Are you all in on Yuke's Well, I'm not afraid
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: of the debate.
• 39:41
  Speaker 17: Actually, I'm kind of you know, I'm glad to see
• 39:43
  Speaker 17: that we're starting to get a little bit of detail.
• 39:46
  Speaker 17: We didn't get quite the detail that we thought we'd get.
• 39:49
  Speaker 17: I mean, Peter Dutton called that press conference and when
• 39:52
  Speaker 17: as long as a German opera, and yet he still
• 39:55
  Speaker 17: wasn't able to tell us a dollar figure on this thing,
• 39:59
  Speaker 17: which I've got to say is astounding. And he came
• 40:02
  Speaker 17: up with that pathetic excuse and said, well, look, you
• 40:05
  Speaker 17: know we wanted to put the locations out because that's
• 40:08
  Speaker 17: what people were asking us about. That doesn't kind of
• 40:11
  Speaker 17: sound like leadership to me. I've just had a dollar
• 40:14
  Speaker 17: figure behind it. But I'm just seeing embracing socialism by
• 40:17
  Speaker 17: saying that Australia is going to pay for it.
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: Just on that before I hand over to Liz. Just
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: on that, I think costings are important.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: Could you tell me what figure the Labor Party have
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: put on their transition to renewables.
• 40:31
  Speaker 17: Yeah, but I'm not I'm not a spokesperson for the
• 40:33
  Speaker 17: Labor Party and no plan is is it a better plan?
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: But I'm just asking you if you know what that
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: figure is. If you criticize one side for no costings, yeah,
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: my point is they're doing this to us, okay, and
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: they haven't ever costed it, have never costed it, although that.
• 40:52
  Speaker 18: We know Labour's plan for their green dream seeing one
• 40:56
  Speaker 18: point two to one point five trillion dollars dollars s
• 41:00
  Speaker 18: I r O costs the average nuclear plant at eight
• 41:04
  Speaker 18: billion ECH.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: So let's run with that.
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: Let's say that's.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: One a jolly bargain.
• 41:11
  Speaker 18: DUTs is talking about putting seven of these up in Australia,
• 41:15
  Speaker 18: so seven times eight, justin what do we got that
• 41:18
  Speaker 18: is a bargain compared to one point two or one
• 41:21
  Speaker 18: point five trillion dollars. And the massive difference is one
• 41:25
  Speaker 18: of them is.
• 41:27
  Speaker 17: Capable of talk about it during that enormous press conference.
• 41:31
  Speaker 17: If it is a bargain, if the figures look good,
• 41:34
  Speaker 17: surely he'd be out in front of He's got every
• 41:36
  Speaker 17: camera on him, he's got everything. You're talking about it.
• 41:39
  Speaker 17: It was actually about it. Why would he not put
• 41:42
  Speaker 17: the figures out?
• 41:43
  Speaker 18: Because he's simply being more careful here. He doesn't want
• 41:47
  Speaker 18: to do what labor has done plenty of times in
• 41:50
  Speaker 18: the past. Costed something and by the time it gets
• 41:53
  Speaker 18: off the ground, it turns out to be an absolute joke.
• 41:55
  Speaker 18: We saw that with snowy Hydro. Obviously that's not on labor,
• 41:59
  Speaker 18: but we're now looking at this twelve billion dollar Lennon,
• 42:04
  Speaker 18: which is utterly useless, which is yet to give us
• 42:07
  Speaker 18: try twenty.
• 42:08
  Speaker 17: Now, just the way that you put the emphasis on
• 42:10
  Speaker 17: the word billion when you talk about somebody else.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: You hit the billion word really hard when you're talking
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: about It's not for me to talk about that. That's his.
• 42:21
  Speaker 17: Let me to talk about But Chris, Chris, you Chris,
• 42:26
  Speaker 17: you asked me about the what labour's costings are? Let
• 42:29
  Speaker 17: me ask you this question. Why did Darren little Proud
• 42:32
  Speaker 17: before not talk about money at all during that interview?
• 42:36
  Speaker 17: And why was he not asked about money at all
• 42:38
  Speaker 17: during that interview? Surely that's going to be one of
• 42:41
  Speaker 17: the most important parts of this.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: David little Proud's his name. I didn't ask him about costings.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: I asked an expert earlier about costings. And my point
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: about that, we're going to see costings. And my point
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: about this, though, is that we know what the renewables
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: are costing. That is hundreds of billions of dollars, and
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: it's made electricity more more expensive and less reliable. So
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: we've got to see what nuclear wants. But we know
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: it's going to be a fraction of renewables, and the
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: other thing we know is it'll work, it'll be there
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: when we need it.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: That's a big difference.
• 43:10
  Speaker 18: Yeah, we're getting value for money when clear absolutely I
• 43:15
  Speaker 18: don't even think it's a babe like them countries across
• 43:21
  Speaker 18: the world to use nuclear and get massive values.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: So blind again literally massive.
• 43:27
  Speaker 18: Value for money, because when we talk about expenditure and nuclear,
• 43:32
  Speaker 18: we are talking about basel power, something renewables are incapable of.
• 43:36
  Speaker 18: We are talking about power plans. The oldest one in
• 43:38
  Speaker 18: the US is fifty five years old and still kicking
• 43:41
  Speaker 18: along like it was born yesterday. Whereas we know that
• 43:44
  Speaker 18: these wind turbines they have to be retired every twenty years.
• 43:48
  Speaker 18: Where are they going to go? Where are they gonna go?
• 43:53
  Speaker 18: How it doesn't live forever? They were massive lay out
• 43:58
  Speaker 18: because they don't have that says to the grid building
• 44:01
  Speaker 18: these plans all right from our stations, you're right on
• 44:06
  Speaker 18: top of the grid already problem solving.
• 44:08
  Speaker 17: Well, look, I am very happy to see this debate happen.
• 44:11
  Speaker 17: I'm very happy to see it happen. But watching Peter
• 44:14
  Speaker 17: Dutton's performance today, then the chances of this happening. I'll
• 44:18
  Speaker 17: tell you what, if he gets this plan up the
• 44:20
  Speaker 17: way he thinks he's going to get this plan up,
• 44:22
  Speaker 17: I'll fill my bum full of plutonium because it's not
• 44:25
  Speaker 17: going to happen the way he thinks at the moment.
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: Okay, we're got to keep that.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: I'm going to keep that.
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: We're going to keep that.
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: I'm going to try next U see, roll on what
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: I'm contemplating, the half life of your bum crap. Let's
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: go to Let's go to Andy Semitism, which is a
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: very heavy topic on the back of all that, although
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: it's been turned into a bit of a laugh because
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: the latest pro Palestinian Nitwick to turn it turn up
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: at one of Jerry Seinfeld's Australian shows has been hit
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: out of the park.
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: Yet again, have a look, you're getting them.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: On your side, can you hear it? There's the police.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: You have shown political feelings, but you don't know.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Where to stay them.
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: Do you think that ruining the night?
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: It doesn't affect me? All these people you're ruining their names.
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: Yes, this is all set up, army.
• 45:24
  Speaker 11: This is a friend of mine.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: I'm an introducer. His name is Nimi Goldstein.
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: It is all set Thank you for Tommy.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: Did you like the horse bit before you left?
• 45:39
  Speaker 14: Did you get a little laugh?
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: Spoder for Seinfeld? Hemig gold State just brilliant, love it.
• 45:47
  Speaker 18: He's had to put up with quite a bit of this.
• 45:49
  Speaker 18: This is the second instance in Sydney. He put up
• 45:52
  Speaker 18: with it in Virginia it was doing a show there. Then,
• 45:55
  Speaker 18: of course there was the infamous case of U University
• 45:58
  Speaker 18: where he returned to except I believe it was a doctorate,
• 46:01
  Speaker 18: gave a speech and the pro palace protests stage this
• 46:05
  Speaker 18: massive walk out. He's now got it down to a
• 46:08
  Speaker 18: fine art, dealing with these hecklers and making them into
• 46:11
  Speaker 18: the jerk that they are.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: It is lovely to see them dealt with in such
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: a humorous way, isn't it.
• 46:15
  Speaker 17: Justin Yeah, I would hope that he's got got you
• 46:20
  Speaker 17: know what is he's seventy years old now, he would
• 46:21
  Speaker 17: have put up with a few heclers in his time.
• 46:23
  Speaker 17: I'm sure he can handle them with a particular particular
• 46:27
  Speaker 17: a plump. He's seventy years old now. Yeah, he's doing well.
• 46:33
  Speaker 17: I'm s worried about it escalating though. I'm worried about
• 46:36
  Speaker 17: you know what protesters are like sometimes they try to
• 46:38
  Speaker 17: sort of out do it, and we've got him coming
• 46:40
  Speaker 17: to Melbourne very soon, So I just I just hope
• 46:42
  Speaker 17: they keep their heads about them.
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: And indeed, speaking of age, I want to go to
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: the senility of the leader of the free world Joe Biden.
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: We talk about that a lot, We've shown you lots
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: of examples, but it is staggering to see what he's pressed.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: Secretary Koareine Jean Pierre actually said about this overnight.
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: She's basically accusing the media of making it all up.
• 47:05
  Speaker 13: Look, it tells you everything that we need to know
• 47:09
  Speaker 13: about how how desperate, how desperate Republicans are here. And
• 47:15
  Speaker 13: instead of talking about the president's performance in office, and
• 47:18
  Speaker 13: what I mean by that is his legislative wins, what
• 47:21
  Speaker 13: he's been able to do for the American people across
• 47:23
  Speaker 13: the country, we're seeing these deep fikes, these manipulated videos.
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: Deep folks, now, justin, Now you can tell us what
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: looks fake about some of the real pictures.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: We're going to run over the top of you talking.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: Well, you got to you got to give them their due.
• 47:40
  Speaker 17: That to be the press secretary at the moment, probably
• 47:42
  Speaker 17: in the last couple of white houses is a pretty
• 47:45
  Speaker 17: bloody hard cell. So I think you've got to grab
• 47:47
  Speaker 17: hold of anything you can.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: No, you can't tell lies.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: Justin.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: This stuff is fake, it's not fake.
• 47:56
  Speaker 17: Look, the guy's not well, and the Democrats should tell
• 48:00
  Speaker 17: him that he's not well, and that they don't want
• 48:02
  Speaker 17: him running next time. Someone's got to talk him out
• 48:05
  Speaker 17: of it. Someone's got to talk Trump out of it.
• 48:07
  Speaker 17: And I don't think they're going to have much life now.
• 48:10
  Speaker 18: They love it because he's not running in the country
• 48:12
  Speaker 18: they get to, so they're absolutely loving this. Of course
• 48:15
  Speaker 18: they want him to run again. But the hiding the
• 48:18
  Speaker 18: cheek of her to make out that these are all
• 48:20
  Speaker 18: deep fakes. What about all the videos of him sniffing
• 48:22
  Speaker 18: children and saying weird, creepy things.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, there is not enough.
• 48:26
  Speaker 18: Deep fake videos in the world to excuse not only
• 48:30
  Speaker 18: all the bumbles and the stumbles and literally him short
• 48:34
  Speaker 18: circuiting mid speech. He just almost gives up on his
• 48:38
  Speaker 18: own train of thought.
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: And that's when he's reading.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: He's reading off a teleprompter.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: Look, it's a difficult job.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: We all know that what she does.
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: But I think she's just exposed herself as a deep fake.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: She's actually telling lies now the cover.
• 48:51
  Speaker 18: Yeah, yeah, that's how it goes to show how desperate
• 48:54
  Speaker 18: they are, which is her accusation that she's leveling at
• 48:57
  Speaker 18: the Republicans.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: Bouncing around.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Fine, true, unbelievable.
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: Thanks for joining us, Justin and Lizie you just didn't disappoint.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: We'll catch you next week. That's all the time we've
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: got for you tonight. I'll be back tomorrow night.
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: Don't forget, and you check out that doco via the app.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: Coming up next is Steve Price for Peter Creedlin.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: Cheers,