Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 2-year-old tot girl found naked, cold, DEAD, wrapped in rug!

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2-year-old tot girl found naked, cold, DEAD, wrapped in rug! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How does a two year
0:14
Speaker 1: old little girl end up dead on the back porch
0:21
Speaker 1: of the family home and nobody seems to have noticed?
0:27
Speaker 1: I want answers crime stories with Nancy Grace. What happened
0:44
Speaker 1: to Baby Melody? What a panel to try and apply
0:49
Speaker 1: logic to an illogical situation in the balance hangs this
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Speaker 1: little girl, Melody Vang. First of all, take as to this.
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Speaker 1: Officers responded at two thirty am Sunday to a duplex
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Speaker 1: in the one thousand block of East third Street on
1:06
Speaker 1: a report of an unknown incident. Upon arrival, they found
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Speaker 1: the girl naked except for a diaper, unconscious and unresponsive,
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Speaker 1: with large bruises on her face. The girl's father told
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Speaker 1: police he'd rolled her in a blanket and rug on
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Speaker 1: the family's back porch so the other children wouldn't see
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Speaker 1: the body. Paramedics pronounced her dead at the scene, rolled
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Speaker 1: her in a rug and later on the back porch
1:28
Speaker 1: with me at all Star panel. First of all, my
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Speaker 1: friend and colleague from Hallmark, Jen Lily. You know her
1:37
Speaker 1: as an actress, a singer, a star, but she is
1:42
Speaker 1: also a nationally recognized child advocate and you can find
1:46
Speaker 1: her at Jen Lily dot com and on Twitter at
1:49
Speaker 1: gen Underscore Lily. Doctor John DeGarmo, leading foster care expert, Founder,
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Speaker 1: director of the Foster Care Institute, author of the Church
1:59
Speaker 1: and Foster Care. You can find him at doctor John Degarma,
2:03
Speaker 1: Fostercare dot com. Ashe Wilcott judge, trial lawyer, anchor Court
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Speaker 1: TV at Ashley Wilcott dot com. Doctor Teresa Gill, PhD,
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Speaker 1: Professor Psychology, psychotherapist, twenty five years working with child abuse
2:19
Speaker 1: and trauma victims. Author of Women who Are Sexually Abused
2:23
Speaker 1: as Children. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University.
2:28
Speaker 1: Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Star on
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Speaker 1: the Tree, Crime Network, in Poisonous Liaison's Death investigator joining us.
2:38
Speaker 1: Alexis terschat Crime online dot Com investigative reporter and special
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Speaker 1: Guests joining us. Daphne Young, the national Chief Communications Officer
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Speaker 1: at Childhelp dot org. First of all, you heard our
2:53
Speaker 1: friends at crime online dot com. Now take a listen
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Speaker 1: to this. On January ten, Saint Paul Landlord saw disturbing
3:01
Speaker 1: bruises on a toddler at his tenants home. He took
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Speaker 1: photos and reported the incident to child Protection. About twelve
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Speaker 1: hours later, in the early hours of January eleventh, a
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Speaker 1: man called the police non emergency line and officers arrived
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Speaker 1: at the home at two thirty am. Officers were led
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Speaker 1: to the backyard porch where they found the deceased body
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Speaker 1: of Melody Vang, wearing only a diaper and wrapped in
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Speaker 1: bedding and a rug. So disturbing on so many levels.
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Speaker 1: But to know that someone actually tried to help this
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Speaker 1: little girl hours before she has found dead and no
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Speaker 1: one helped, just rubs salt into the wound. Imagine a
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Speaker 1: two year old little girl. Just last night I posted
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Speaker 1: a throwback photo of the twins and they were about
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Speaker 1: fourteen to sixteen months old, almost two. When I think
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Speaker 1: of a child that young, that helpless, that vulnerable, that's sensitive,
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Speaker 1: that's sweet. And to imagine this baby girl, melody and
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Speaker 1: naked except for a diaper rolled up and a rug
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Speaker 1: off the floor left on the back porch. Are we
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Speaker 1: going to actually stand for that in our society? Because
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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if you're the richest country in the world,
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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter about the education levels, none of that matters.
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Speaker 1: What matters is how we treat those most defenseless, most vulnerable,
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Speaker 1: the weakest, and less cunning in our society. And if
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Speaker 1: this is an example, then we are not the leader
5:00
Speaker 1: of the free world. To Alexis terrest, Chuck, what happened
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Speaker 1: to this little girl? This little girl had a tragic
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Speaker 1: life from the minute she was born. She was born.
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Speaker 1: Wait a minute before I get to her Birthwatry, going
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Speaker 1: to circle back on. I need to ask you exactly
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Speaker 1: how police got there, who called, why was there a
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Speaker 1: hang up call, and why was the little girl on
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Speaker 1: the back porch wrapped in a rug? Her father called
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Speaker 1: the police. He called the police and said that there
5:30
Speaker 1: was an incident in the home and they needed to come.
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Speaker 1: An incident. Yes, didn't explain, didn't didn't prepare them at
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Speaker 1: all for what happened. The police arrived and he said
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Speaker 1: to them, I need you all to be quiet, because
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Speaker 1: nobody knows that our daughter is dead. The police were stunned.
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Speaker 1: This was not but he just flat out told them that, Okay, Alexis,
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Speaker 1: you just told me something I didn't know. Let me
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Speaker 1: understand this. You've got a dead baby wearing nothing but
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Speaker 1: a diaper. And this is in Saint Paul, Minnesota. Yea
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Speaker 1: in January. It's freezing yep, and they've got her outside
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Speaker 1: and nothing but a diaper wrapped in a rug. And
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Speaker 1: they actually say, nobody knows she's dead. Did you just
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Speaker 1: tell me that I did? Okay, you know, right right there,
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Speaker 1: I've got to go to a shrink psychotherapist professors psychology
6:24
Speaker 1: doctor Teresa Gill. Isn't that a little confusion on priorities?
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Speaker 1: So it's interesting because the reason he said it is
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Speaker 1: because there were five other children in the home. And
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Speaker 1: one of the reasons he said is that she started
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Speaker 1: to smell because she was going into rigor mortis and
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Speaker 1: they didn't want the other children to know. So it's
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Speaker 1: interesting how they're protecting five children, but would abuse a
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Speaker 1: child another child in the family and you know, kill her.
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Speaker 1: And the other interesting thing that I thought was how
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Speaker 1: sometimes in families, one child is the identified child to
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Speaker 1: take all the abuse, not that the other children aren't
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Speaker 1: suffering because they're witnessing what their parents can do. So
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Speaker 1: that keeps the other children in their place, It stops
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Speaker 1: them from acting out, It keeps them quiet, It keeps
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Speaker 1: them separate and away from their parents because they know
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Speaker 1: what their parents are capable of doing. But it's not
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Speaker 1: unusual to pick the one child who takes the abuse
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Speaker 1: and is the target of the abuse. And it sounds
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Speaker 1: like little Melody with the target of abuse. And it's
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Speaker 1: also interesting that the second leading cause of homicide for
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Speaker 1: children is within the preschool age, you know, between two
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Speaker 1: and five. You know, doctor Teresa Guil, everything he just said,
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Speaker 1: I felt like SACA bricks just hit me just hearing
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Speaker 1: and everything you said is true, but it's just let
8:06
Speaker 1: me just say sobering as a euphemism to hear everything
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Speaker 1: you said, doctor Gill, did the father actually say the
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Speaker 1: child was beginning to smell? That is what it's said
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Speaker 1: in the honest paper report just got Morgan, death investigator.
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Speaker 1: If that's true, then the child would have been dead
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Speaker 1: for a period of hours at least. Yeah, And we
8:28
Speaker 1: work on timelines, don't we, Nancy. What I do know
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Speaker 1: is in fact that the report said that the child
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Speaker 1: was in rigor mortis. And what this means is that
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Speaker 1: the child had been deceased long enough so that rigidity
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Speaker 1: had set in. And we measure these things and at
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Speaker 1: that point, Tom, you're looking potentially potentially, we don't know
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Speaker 1: to what degree, because this is coming from a reporter,
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Speaker 1: not an actual scientific, you know examination, but you begin
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Speaker 1: to think about rigidity. We're looking at maybe six to
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Speaker 1: eight hours at this point in top, which is striking
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Speaker 1: when you think about it. And one more thing, Nancy,
9:07
Speaker 1: that night in Saint Paul, it was twenty six degrees
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Speaker 1: twenty six degrees in Saint Paul, Minnesota on that night.
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Speaker 1: And this baby isn't a diaper. Just keep that in mind.
9:33
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. For those of you just
9:37
Speaker 1: joining us, we are talking about a two year old
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Speaker 1: little girl that's really hitting home. I just was looking
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Speaker 1: at a photo and posted of my twins at about
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Speaker 1: that age. How little they are, how defenseless, how weak.
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Speaker 1: This little girl was bruised across her body, black eye
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Speaker 1: cuts and scratches, and according to reports, rigor had set
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Speaker 1: in when the police arrived. The parents tells they rolled
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Speaker 1: her body in bedding and a rug so the other
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Speaker 1: children wouldn't see. But you know what the reality is,
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Speaker 1: Daphne Young joining me, the national Chief Communications Officer with
10:24
Speaker 1: Childhelp dot Org. I bet the children saw the beatings happening, Well,
10:31
Speaker 1: they don't want to see a rolled up in a rug.
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Speaker 1: But what about all the beatings this little baby took
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Speaker 1: absolutely even I think you're therapist at at best where
10:39
Speaker 1: it's like a Cinderella syndrome. You pick one child as
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Speaker 1: the scapegoat and all the children watch that child be
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Speaker 1: tortured and harmed. And they said they put her in
10:51
Speaker 1: a place called the timeout closet. Don't have a timeout
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Speaker 1: closet where your child is in a dark and closed
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Speaker 1: space for supposed discipline. And when those kids see that,
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Speaker 1: it traumatizes them, as was expressed, it makes them feel
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Speaker 1: I'm next. And sometimes parents even pit the children against
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Speaker 1: one another so that the children get abused by their
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Speaker 1: own siblings because it's the only way to stay safe
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Speaker 1: and not to be the victim yourself. And it's heartbreaking. Guys,
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Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend David Sheman, a wccocbs MINS.
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Speaker 1: The same little girl that neighbor saw was found dead
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Speaker 1: on her family's back porch Sunday in Saint Paul. Officers
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Speaker 1: were checking on the home after police say a man
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Speaker 1: had asked for help over a non emergency line then
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Speaker 1: hung up. The girl's father was the one who called,
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Speaker 1: and he told officers when they arrived he thought his
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Speaker 1: daughter was dead. Anytime a three year old is dead
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Speaker 1: on a scene and it's suspicious. Joining you right now,
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Speaker 1: I'm not a special guest. It's Jen Lilly, my friend
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Speaker 1: at Hallmark, actress, singer, nationally recognized child abuse advocate. Generally,
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. If it weren't for you, Jen,
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Speaker 1: I would not have even known about Melody. What brought
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Speaker 1: melody story to you? Actually, what brought this story to
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Speaker 1: my attention was doctor John de Garmo, who I know
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Speaker 1: is also on the line. Doctor de Garmo and I
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Speaker 1: have been working federally to stop premature reunification, which is
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Speaker 1: when a child you know, is reunified with their parents
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Speaker 1: too soon. That's when you see these deaths occur. And
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Speaker 1: obviously this is a case where this child never should
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Speaker 1: have died. And further, the complications of that are that
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Speaker 1: when now the siblings have re entered care and they
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Speaker 1: are going to experience so much more trauma now they're
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Speaker 1: having to deal with the death of their sisters. So
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Speaker 1: this is an ongoing situation that has victims that are
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Speaker 1: still living that could have been prevented if premature reunification
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Speaker 1: had not taken place. To ask you, Jin, why you
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Speaker 1: are focused on premature unification, in other words, giving the
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Speaker 1: baby back to the parents that have already abused them
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Speaker 1: to the point the child's taken out of the home.
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Speaker 1: Then why in the world which you put the child
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Speaker 1: back in the home. One of the reasons I'm so
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Speaker 1: focused on that fancy is because of the statistics that
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Speaker 1: do come out of foster care. So currently in foster care,
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Speaker 1: you have over four hundred and thirty seven thousand children
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Speaker 1: in foster care. Of those who end up aging out
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Speaker 1: of the system, fifty percent will have a substance abuse problem,
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Speaker 1: ninety seven percent won't get a college degree, forty six
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Speaker 1: percent will be homeless at least once by the age
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Speaker 1: of twenty six, and twenty five percent won't graduate high school. Furthermore,
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Speaker 1: eighty percent of inmates on death row or in foster care.
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Speaker 1: Seven out of ten girls who aged out of the
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Speaker 1: foster care system will become pregnant before the age of
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Speaker 1: twenty one and their children will end up in foster care.
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Speaker 1: And sixty percent of the sex trafficking victims we have
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Speaker 1: an anation came from foster care, and so foster care
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Speaker 1: is a cycle of abuse. When we see that in
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Speaker 1: this case, you know the mother Lee, she actually came
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Speaker 1: from foster care and that was something that she blamed
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Speaker 1: on her reasoning for murdering this child. You know, she
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Speaker 1: was abused. And I think in order to solve the
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Speaker 1: foster care problem, you have to focus on rehabilitating these
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Speaker 1: children as children, which is something that Child Helps us
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Speaker 1: so well, I'm so excited that Daffy is on this call.
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Speaker 1: Child Helps is incredible organization. I'm so glad you know
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Speaker 1: about them. But you know, unless these child children receive love,
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Speaker 1: unless they go into loving foster homes, that you're going
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Speaker 1: to have outcomes like this and the problem. Another problem
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Speaker 1: is that of children who have five or more foster
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Speaker 1: care placements in their lifetime will enter the justice system.
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Speaker 1: So you've got these five surviving civil excuse me if
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Speaker 1: it's not five, I believe it's five surviving siblings who
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Speaker 1: have now re entrough care. And furthermore, all six of
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Speaker 1: them were in the same loving foster home. Do you
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Speaker 1: know how hard it is to play six siblings in
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Speaker 1: one home. So they were in a safe and stable
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Speaker 1: foster home for the last two years all of Melody's life,
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Speaker 1: and now these five are re entering care and if
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Speaker 1: they go to five or more foster care placements, so
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Speaker 1: now they're into placement two three more. There odds are
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Speaker 1: ninety percent of them will end up in the justice system. Guys,
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Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend Tyler Hunt. At crime Online.
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Speaker 1: Investigators interviewed the child's father and her mother, Twenty nine
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Speaker 1: year old Kiosha Lee. Lee admitted that she routinely abused
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Speaker 1: Fang far more than her other children. In the hours
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Speaker 1: leading up to Vang's death. Lee said she hit, punched,
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Speaker 1: and scratched her daughter several times because her crying woke
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Speaker 1: up the baby. She also said the victim had been
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Speaker 1: spoiled in foster care and was thrown to falling on
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Speaker 1: the floor and crying when she didn't get her way.
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Speaker 1: She said she beat her often and put her in
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Speaker 1: a time out clause at his punishment, adding that the
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Speaker 1: girl's father didn't know half of what she did physically
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Speaker 1: and mentally to harm the toddler. To even say those words,
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Speaker 1: my husband doesn't know half of what I did to her,
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Speaker 1: just as she willcot judge, trial lawyer anchor at Court
16:21
Speaker 1: TV way in Nancy. I've got so much to say,
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Speaker 1: So first of all, I have to say I completely
16:27
Speaker 1: agree with all the comments that have been made, and
16:29
Speaker 1: I so appreciate that generally as someone who will advocate
16:32
Speaker 1: as someone who's in the media and has a media
16:34
Speaker 1: presence as a TV personality, TV star. And here's why,
16:38
Speaker 1: because half the battle is education. I serve as a
16:41
Speaker 1: judge in juvenile court and repeatedly these things happened, they
16:46
Speaker 1: continue to happen. It's not okay, and nobody should be
16:49
Speaker 1: able to live with this or sleep when they hear
16:51
Speaker 1: about these crimes. But it continues to happen. So we've
16:53
Speaker 1: got to continue educating people about all the statistics around
16:57
Speaker 1: it and what needs to happen. Next, let me say this,
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Speaker 1: one of the thing people have to keep in mind
17:02
Speaker 1: is judges have to apply the law, and so sometimes
17:05
Speaker 1: the laws are such that if a parent rehabilitates and
17:09
Speaker 1: does everything to remove the risk in the home originally,
17:13
Speaker 1: the judge may not have a legal choice other than
17:16
Speaker 1: to return the children. However, in this case, to have
17:19
Speaker 1: someone who has done this level an amount of physical
17:22
Speaker 1: abuse to a child and just return children. For parents
17:25
Speaker 1: to have six children all at once when they've already
17:27
Speaker 1: been abused and neglected, that's a red flag that it's
17:30
Speaker 1: going to happen again, right, It's got to be really
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Speaker 1: cautious in that circumstance. And they weren't crime stories with
17:49
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. You know, we're talking about the death of
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Speaker 1: a beautiful to your old little girl who was singled
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Speaker 1: out by mommy for horrific abe. She has found dead
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Speaker 1: on the back porch, wrapped in a rug. Yes, Mommy
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Speaker 1: admits to it, but Daddy stood by and let it happen.
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Speaker 1: As far as I'm concerned, Daphney Young and they can
18:13
Speaker 1: both get a one way ticket straight to h E
18:17
Speaker 1: double L one way and don't pasco because he called
18:21
Speaker 1: his brother before calling the police or anyone, so he
18:25
Speaker 1: was strategizing on how to cover this up. And we
18:29
Speaker 1: are so honored to have someone like Jen Lily. She
18:32
Speaker 1: won't toot her own horn, but she is a phenomenal
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Speaker 1: foster mom, a phenomenal adoptive mom through Childhelp. She's our
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Speaker 1: child Help celebrity ambassador, and she is the example probably
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Speaker 1: the type of wonderful spoiling foster mom. You know, I
18:47
Speaker 1: was horrified to hear this woman say that her child
18:50
Speaker 1: was spoiled in foster care. What she was was loved
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Speaker 1: treated well, made to feel safe. Sure she's crying right
18:57
Speaker 1: now because she was just ripped away from all of
18:59
Speaker 1: them and handed to two people fresh out of rehab
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Speaker 1: for amphetamines and right out of a shelter. You want
19:05
Speaker 1: to talk about premature reunification. These people were in crisis
19:10
Speaker 1: and they were messed up, and they were handed this
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Speaker 1: precious child and these group of kids from probably a
19:17
Speaker 1: great place when you think about someone like Jen as
19:19
Speaker 1: a foster mom, and then you think throwing them back
19:22
Speaker 1: with these you know, people that are drug addicts, and
19:26
Speaker 1: in this awful scenario, it's just that is the place
19:30
Speaker 1: where you know, the system has to step in and
19:32
Speaker 1: create safety for these kids, you know, and they knew
19:35
Speaker 1: the foster care parents were wonderful and Defects Department Family
19:42
Speaker 1: Children's Services knew that. But send them back into this
19:45
Speaker 1: hill hole anyway, basically sending Melody, two year old Melody
19:50
Speaker 1: to our own death. This little girl is dead. Who
19:56
Speaker 1: is going to answer up for it? The judge that'll
19:59
Speaker 1: allow them to be said back in the de facts
20:02
Speaker 1: worker that said, sure they've been rehabilitated. Take a listen
20:06
Speaker 1: to our friends at crime Online. John Bang, Melody's father,
20:08
Speaker 1: denied seeing Lee strike the girl that night, but the
20:11
Speaker 1: forty two year old admitted to investigators that he had
20:13
Speaker 1: seen her do so in the past. He accused the
20:16
Speaker 1: child of being a drama queen and resistant to discipline.
20:19
Speaker 1: According to the complaint, Melody's older siblings told a social
20:22
Speaker 1: worker that both parents had a history of physical abuse
20:25
Speaker 1: and kept Melody locked in a closet for hours on
20:28
Speaker 1: end as punishment for misbehaving, sometimes being forced to stuff
20:32
Speaker 1: food into her diaper so she would have something to
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Speaker 1: eat at night. One child described seeing Bang strike Melody
20:37
Speaker 1: in the face with his fist about a week before
20:39
Speaker 1: her death, and that his parents would sometimes beat Melody
20:42
Speaker 1: with a wire hanger. You know, there were times, Alexis
20:46
Speaker 1: Terrez Chuck, and we've discussed this before, when I would
20:49
Speaker 1: go in front of a jury and I could hardly
20:52
Speaker 1: say the words they would be so awful. But hearing
20:57
Speaker 1: the report on what happened to this child, wild's it
21:03
Speaker 1: just it's almost too much to take in. What else
21:08
Speaker 1: do we know? Why would they send this child back
21:10
Speaker 1: into the home. Well, their excuse is that the parents
21:13
Speaker 1: had finished up their rehab. They had they had completed
21:17
Speaker 1: their addiction treatment and they were clean and sober. But
21:21
Speaker 1: the interesting well, I don't interesting in the right word.
21:24
Speaker 1: The thing is the situation is nobody checks on these
21:28
Speaker 1: children once they are reunited with the parents. In this
21:31
Speaker 1: particular case, and I don't know about anywhere else, but
21:33
Speaker 1: in this tregular case, they were reunited with their parents
21:36
Speaker 1: and no one followed up to check on them. They
21:38
Speaker 1: said that that was not the procedure that they do,
21:41
Speaker 1: so they just put these kids in with parents who
21:43
Speaker 1: were fresh out of rehab and fresh out of treatment.
21:46
Speaker 1: When so many people that have drug problems relapsed, they
21:50
Speaker 1: successfully complete rehab and then they relaxed, and these kids
21:54
Speaker 1: were just leafting. This wasn't like these two were vegged
21:56
Speaker 1: out on pot. No, they were into methamphetamin. Can I
22:01
Speaker 1: jump make you crazy? Nancy? Can I judge? I gotta
22:04
Speaker 1: tell you as a judge, here's one thing that we
22:06
Speaker 1: can do as judges. We can be creative. We can
22:08
Speaker 1: still follow the law. But one of the things I
22:11
Speaker 1: can be creative about is say, listen, maybe it's time
22:13
Speaker 1: for reunification, but as a condition, I need to know
22:17
Speaker 1: that you all are going to check on them every
22:19
Speaker 1: day once a week, and a report back to the court,
22:21
Speaker 1: judges can be creative to make sure that children are
22:25
Speaker 1: safe and still remain within the requirement of the law.
22:27
Speaker 1: That's an excellent idea, Didjin Lily, That's certainly not what
22:31
Speaker 1: happened here, No, absolutely not. And the fact that I
22:34
Speaker 1: have a daughter who's almost two and I have a
22:36
Speaker 1: two year old boy, it just shakes me to the
22:39
Speaker 1: court that she's stun food in our diaper. I mean
22:41
Speaker 1: that she would have the four thoughts, you know, the
22:45
Speaker 1: survival thought as a two year old, I have to
22:48
Speaker 1: store this food for later, and that's insane. I thought
22:51
Speaker 1: it was interesting when I read that in the CPS report,
22:58
Speaker 1: the workers said that one of the older children was
23:02
Speaker 1: worried about going home because it was the first time
23:06
Speaker 1: his mom and dad, who also had another baby, so
23:09
Speaker 1: they had an eight month old that was not enforced
23:12
Speaker 1: to care, so while the other five were enforced to care,
23:15
Speaker 1: they had another child. And they said, my parents never
23:19
Speaker 1: had six children all at once, So here you have
23:23
Speaker 1: a little one that is keenly aware that they're going
23:28
Speaker 1: into a vulnerable and volatile situation. And that it was
23:33
Speaker 1: put in the report that the child said it by
23:35
Speaker 1: the worker, but the worker didn't take heed. And there
23:39
Speaker 1: was one other thing that happened where Melody was not
23:44
Speaker 1: bonding to the mother in one of the visitations, and
23:47
Speaker 1: the mother had mentioned it that somehow she felt rejected
23:51
Speaker 1: by her child, and the worker said, she'll warm up
23:57
Speaker 1: to you. But children know who's safe and who's not safe.
24:03
Speaker 1: There's a thing called interception. It's what you like almost psychically,
24:08
Speaker 1: feel if someone is safe to go near. And if
24:13
Speaker 1: a mother is angry or depressed or has a mental
24:18
Speaker 1: illness and her body is constricted and it stops her
24:24
Speaker 1: from breathing or holds her body tight, a little two
24:27
Speaker 1: year old is going to pick up on that and
24:30
Speaker 1: know that it is not safe to get close to
24:32
Speaker 1: that person. And those were two indicators right there from
24:36
Speaker 1: the children that this was not a safe home and
24:39
Speaker 1: it was not listened to. And a child's inability to
24:43
Speaker 1: get close to a parent should be a barometer that
24:46
Speaker 1: something is not okay, that the relationship is not insane.
24:50
Speaker 1: You're hearing, doctor Teresa Guil, Professors Psychology and psychotherapist to
24:55
Speaker 1: doctor John Dugarma Way in doctor an issue that I
25:00
Speaker 1: across in January early January, right after the incident happened,
25:02
Speaker 1: and I immediately started reaching out the journalists, immediately started
25:06
Speaker 1: reaching out to senators and legislators in Minnesota. And I've
25:09
Speaker 1: fell upon deaf ears, fell upon deaf ears, and I
25:12
Speaker 1: thought to myself, I can't let this happen again. I
25:14
Speaker 1: can't let this happen again. I've had over sixty plus
25:17
Speaker 1: children come from my home as a foster parents. I've
25:19
Speaker 1: had as many as eleven kids in my house at
25:20
Speaker 1: the same time because the system is failing children. There's
25:24
Speaker 1: not enough homes, more children flooding into a fostercare system,
25:27
Speaker 1: not enough good homes, and many times agencies feel pressured
25:32
Speaker 1: to reunify the children back into the homes because again,
25:35
Speaker 1: is not enough homes, and this is what results a
25:37
Speaker 1: tragic result. Jen gave a wonderful the true statistics earlier on.
25:42
Speaker 1: I want to add the statistic as well, and I'm
25:44
Speaker 1: very much pro reunification. Reunification can happen wonderfully when a
25:48
Speaker 1: child is reunified with birth parents. But fifty fifty percent
25:51
Speaker 1: of children in foscare are reunified with a birth parents.
25:54
Speaker 1: Of that fifty percent, Nancy twenty to thirty percent come
25:57
Speaker 1: back in foster care because it did not go right,
26:00
Speaker 1: and those children who come back in the care are
26:02
Speaker 1: far more traumatized. As a foster myself, I've had so
26:06
Speaker 1: many children come to my home who go back to
26:08
Speaker 1: their family members and then come back to my house
26:11
Speaker 1: far more traumatized, filled with more anxiety. Melody should be
26:16
Speaker 1: a rallying cry for our nation to fix the foster
26:21
Speaker 1: care system. Crime stories with Nancy Grace to doctor John DeGarmo,
26:40
Speaker 1: Jin Lily, doctor Teresa Gale, Daphne Young, I only have
26:46
Speaker 1: anecdotal examples. I don't have the statistics that you have
26:50
Speaker 1: in all of your studies, But I am completely against
26:55
Speaker 1: parental reunification because sure, you may want a second chance
27:03
Speaker 1: with your child, but that child's life has already been
27:11
Speaker 1: forever tainted because whatever the parent did the first time.
27:15
Speaker 1: I mean, why do we treat children like they're part
27:19
Speaker 1: of an experiment? May Why would you give a child
27:23
Speaker 1: a second dose of poison? I don't get why there
27:29
Speaker 1: is reunification. I want to add that two of the
27:31
Speaker 1: three children I've adopted from Foscare, our third generation fostercare
27:36
Speaker 1: much like Melody's mother, which means their parents and their
27:38
Speaker 1: grandparents were also in the FOSCAR system, and the system
27:42
Speaker 1: failed them in some fashion. In fact, my daughter's birth
27:45
Speaker 1: mother was prostitutored out by age nine. Though it's sometimes
27:48
Speaker 1: it's a generational cycle. When these children return home to generate,
27:52
Speaker 1: the cycle can continue for the next generation. I do
27:55
Speaker 1: want to add, though, there can be those times when
27:57
Speaker 1: those parents are able to heal from their own pain,
28:01
Speaker 1: able to heal from their own anxiety. I'm sorry to Garmo,
28:04
Speaker 1: I just had to roll my eyes at you. Yeah,
28:06
Speaker 1: maybe sometimes it works, maybe, but the stats are totally
28:10
Speaker 1: against it. You just told me fifty percent of children
28:13
Speaker 1: are returned to their parents, but twenty to thirty percent
28:17
Speaker 1: of those children lamb back in foster. What does that
28:21
Speaker 1: mean to me? A very slim percentage of reunification works.
28:26
Speaker 1: Why risk it? Look, I know you guys are the experts.
28:30
Speaker 1: I know you have the stats. But I know what
28:32
Speaker 1: I know, and I know Melody is dead because of reunification,
28:39
Speaker 1: and her brothers and sisters are going to grow up
28:42
Speaker 1: knowing that their sister was murdered by mommy and Daddy
28:50
Speaker 1: stood by and let it happen because of reunification. Why
28:56
Speaker 1: use children as experiments if they want another on at parenthood?
29:01
Speaker 1: Have another kid try that. I don't even condemn that.
29:05
Speaker 1: I don't think you'd get a second chance to destroy
29:09
Speaker 1: a child's life or murder them. That's a philosophical question
29:18
Speaker 1: that turns real in cases like Melody reunited with her
29:24
Speaker 1: drug abusing parents and Mommy ends up killing her. Guys.
29:29
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this court record show. Child Protection
29:33
Speaker 1: Services took Melody from her parents after she was born
29:35
Speaker 1: in September twenty eighteen, and she spent the next two
29:38
Speaker 1: years in foster care with her siblings until twenty twenty.
29:41
Speaker 1: According to court documents, the children were returned to Lee
29:44
Speaker 1: and Bang, Melody's father, after both parents completed chemical dependency
29:48
Speaker 1: treatment and mental health evaluations. A child protection worker wrote
29:52
Speaker 1: in a June twenty twenty report that Lee said Melody
29:55
Speaker 1: was confused about being home, noting she was doing well
29:58
Speaker 1: with Fang but was having a hard time with the
30:00
Speaker 1: older children. Reported they were happy to be home, but
30:02
Speaker 1: one express worry that it was the first time his
30:04
Speaker 1: mom and dad, who had another baby, had parented all
30:08
Speaker 1: six children at once. How many times does it take
30:10
Speaker 1: before we learn the lesson? Does anybody remember this case
30:17
Speaker 1: of Trinity Chandler. Take a listen to this. This is
30:21
Speaker 1: from w x y Z. To me, it looked like
30:26
Speaker 1: healing from like two black eyes. It was two October's
30:29
Speaker 1: when I made the report with Michigan State Police for
30:33
Speaker 1: then today. On the face it was a couple months
30:35
Speaker 1: prior that I had seen her with Marx under her eyes.
30:38
Speaker 1: It was obvious abuse. They could have at least taken
30:40
Speaker 1: her and had her space somewhere. That was a little Trinity,
30:43
Speaker 1: a much light melody spotted with bruising in black eyes.
30:47
Speaker 1: She stays in the home. This is what happens. Take
30:50
Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at w x y Z Detroit.
30:55
Speaker 1: This is truly a sickening crime and even more appalling.
30:59
Speaker 1: We've now learned Child Protective Services did a welfare check
31:02
Speaker 1: on Trinity the very day before she died, and they
31:06
Speaker 1: discovered injuries, but still chose not to remove her. During
31:09
Speaker 1: a virtual arraignment, Police say Smart is the prime suspect
31:13
Speaker 1: in Trinity's death. Sources confirm the young girl suffered bruises
31:17
Speaker 1: and internal bleeding after being left alone with Smarts at
31:20
Speaker 1: Groveland Manor Mobile home park in Groveland Township. Twenty nine
31:23
Speaker 1: year old, showing no emotion and giving short answers as
31:26
Speaker 1: he's charged with child abuse and torture. She ends up dead.
31:30
Speaker 1: Does the name Thomas Valva or Ingabell take a list
31:34
Speaker 1: of CBS two was no secret the eight year old
31:37
Speaker 1: had been suffering. CBS two obtained abuse complaint records and
31:40
Speaker 1: custody hearing transcripts. Those judges seemed like they just didn't
31:44
Speaker 1: care what all the case workers, the CPSKIS workers also
31:50
Speaker 1: they extremely responsible for what happened from Tommy twenty fourteen
31:55
Speaker 1: to twenty nineteen. Twenty one nine one one calls to
31:59
Speaker 1: Nasso police from the couple's Valley Stream home, mostly visitation
32:02
Speaker 1: disputes twenty fifteen, contentious divorce battle begins. Court transcripts. Twenty seventeen.
32:08
Speaker 1: Judge admonishing the mother, Justina, who is representing herself, desperately
32:13
Speaker 1: raising her hand. He has failed to pick up our
32:15
Speaker 1: children twenty nine times bio mom begging the judge don't
32:18
Speaker 1: send him back, and this little boy ends up dead. Well,
32:22
Speaker 1: there's so many I don't even know where to pick.
32:25
Speaker 1: Let's go to cut twenty two. ABC seven. We're talking
32:28
Speaker 1: about aj investigators with the Crystal Lake Police Department telling
32:32
Speaker 1: us that they've been called to the home here in
32:34
Speaker 1: Crystal Lake seventeen times just since AJ was born five
32:38
Speaker 1: years ago. Now, this is an ongoing and active investigation
32:41
Speaker 1: here in Lake County. The Crystal Lake Police Department telling
32:44
Speaker 1: us they've had various reports detailing what they call unacceptable
32:47
Speaker 1: living conditions in the past five years, along with alleged
32:50
Speaker 1: drug abuse at the home and major concerns from the
32:53
Speaker 1: Department of Children and Family Services for both children's welfare
32:57
Speaker 1: who lived inside of the home. Now one week and
33:00
Speaker 1: J's family says he was last seen inside of his
33:02
Speaker 1: bedroom at this home in Christa Lake. The search now
33:05
Speaker 1: shifting to the nearby Sterns Woods and Veteran Acres Park,
33:09
Speaker 1: where sources tell us so on our techn visions were
33:11
Speaker 1: called to check out the water specifically looking for signs
33:14
Speaker 1: of AJ. Of course, AJ is found dead and what
33:18
Speaker 1: about little Caitlyn. Here's Fox twenty four. On Wednesday afternoon,
33:22
Speaker 1: thirty seven year old Catherine Horton called nine to one
33:25
Speaker 1: to report that her daughter was unresponsive. E and T
33:28
Speaker 1: s transported the young girl to the hospital, where she
33:31
Speaker 1: was pronounced dead. Horton's daughter, twelve year old Caitlin Yasbak,
33:35
Speaker 1: likely died due to medical neglect and suffered excessive pain.
33:39
Speaker 1: According to a preliminary autopsy, she died because of neglect.
33:43
Speaker 1: She died because she was literally bitten by hundreds of LUTs.
33:51
Speaker 1: That's why she died, mal nutritioned and dead by torture,
33:56
Speaker 1: and mommy stood by and let it happen and defects.
34:00
Speaker 1: I mean, what about Gabriel Hernandez. Take a listen to
34:03
Speaker 1: CBS two LA in the hours before his death, Gabriel
34:06
Speaker 1: lay in an emergency root his skull fractured, He'd been burned,
34:09
Speaker 1: apparently tied up, he was missing skin, he had baby
34:13
Speaker 1: pellets lodged in his lungs, growed up. Even though I
34:16
Speaker 1: can't even stand to listen to it, I've got this
34:19
Speaker 1: stack of similar cases of children that defacts Department Family
34:24
Speaker 1: Shoulder's Services knows are being tortured, starved, beaten, locked in closets,
34:32
Speaker 1: you name it, but they're sent back to the home
34:37
Speaker 1: under the euphemism reunification. Daphne, help me. The thing that
34:46
Speaker 1: disturbs me most about this case is you had a
34:49
Speaker 1: window to save a life. So the landlord comes by,
34:52
Speaker 1: guy takes the risk to take photographs and calls child
34:57
Speaker 1: Protective services, and here you have the perfect storm of like, hey,
35:00
Speaker 1: I know these people, I saw the situation. I've got pictures,
35:04
Speaker 1: you know, all of you on here. Nancy as a lawyer,
35:07
Speaker 1: you know when you've got photographs, that's like, yes, we
35:09
Speaker 1: can move on this. We've got proof. And they knew
35:13
Speaker 1: these children were in the system. No less, they knew
35:15
Speaker 1: the circumstance. There's already a right up on these children files,
35:19
Speaker 1: probably through the roof. And twelve hours later, this little
35:24
Speaker 1: girl is dead. And there was a window of twelve
35:27
Speaker 1: hours to come and rescue her. There was a window
35:30
Speaker 1: of the moment that call came in to say, whoa,
35:33
Speaker 1: this is a this is a flagged file. Let's run
35:35
Speaker 1: out there and do something. What happened? What did happen
35:40
Speaker 1: to Jen Lily joining me, my friend from the Hallmark Channel,
35:45
Speaker 1: nationally recognized child advocate, Jen, What can we do? You know? Well,
35:53
Speaker 1: I think first of all, I wonder a Daphne was
35:55
Speaker 1: that called meine? Yes? You know what's the landlord called
35:59
Speaker 1: the six to start with? Yeah, so that's the matter.
36:04
Speaker 1: The child's black eye was reported. It does not matter,
36:08
Speaker 1: you know. I think one thing that we need to
36:10
Speaker 1: do is we need to evaluate the cases more because
36:14
Speaker 1: sometimes children enter foster care because of neglect. Now, neglect
36:18
Speaker 1: can range from a series of things. Sometimes it's just
36:21
Speaker 1: a horrible situation where the mom and dad are without
36:24
Speaker 1: a job and they don't have enough food, and they
36:27
Speaker 1: haven't gotten welfare, and they haven't gotten the wrap around
36:29
Speaker 1: and support services that they need. I think in those cases,
36:33
Speaker 1: reunification is possible because you're not dealing with horrific abuse.
36:37
Speaker 1: You're dealing with a family that's fell on hard times.
36:39
Speaker 1: And I think that really how you solve that is
36:42
Speaker 1: you get wrap around services from the government. I think
36:46
Speaker 1: the church needs to stand up and wrap around these
36:48
Speaker 1: families and love them. I think the solution is getting
36:52
Speaker 1: more faith and loving licensed foster parents. And I'm not
36:57
Speaker 1: sure why said it, but you know, education is key.
37:01
Speaker 1: I think that's something that you do so well, Nancy.
37:03
Speaker 1: I think that's something we can all agree on. We
37:05
Speaker 1: have to recruit that our foster parents who are willing
37:08
Speaker 1: to take the notes, who are willing to get their heartbroken,
37:11
Speaker 1: who are willing to blow the whistle, and who are
37:13
Speaker 1: willing to also wrap around the families because these families
37:16
Speaker 1: aren't getting support. You know, reunification premature reunification that results
37:21
Speaker 1: in death is going to happen all the time. Jen Lily,
37:23
Speaker 1: you know what, You're a better person than me. There's
37:26
Speaker 1: really no doubt about it. Because you're talking about wrapping
37:29
Speaker 1: the families with love. I want them to go to jail.
37:33
Speaker 1: I don't want them to stay there. That's just where
37:36
Speaker 1: I'm coming from. I agree, I absolutely agree. John DeGarmo.
37:41
Speaker 1: You know you and Jen Lily are on a much
37:44
Speaker 1: higher plane than myself because I've seen so many dead
37:49
Speaker 1: children at the hands of their parents, tortured in comas
37:55
Speaker 1: and vegetative states for the rest of their lives, covered
37:59
Speaker 1: in cigarett at burns and bruises. I don't know why
38:04
Speaker 1: more cases of this guilt are not death penalty cases.
38:09
Speaker 1: Can you give me some kind of answer that we
38:14
Speaker 1: can all understand, not statistics, not theories, how to stop this? Nancy,
38:21
Speaker 1: those children you mentioned have lived in my home. Those
38:24
Speaker 1: children have I've had those kids in my home with
38:25
Speaker 1: cigaret burns in their tongue and their genitals. I've had
38:28
Speaker 1: that in my home and it drives me every single
38:30
Speaker 1: day and make the system a better system. That's why,
38:33
Speaker 1: that's why Jen and I were in WASHINGTONDC last July
38:36
Speaker 1: working with legislators, letting them know that all those children
38:38
Speaker 1: you just mentioned our children on my radar. We've been
38:41
Speaker 1: speaking to legislators. This is why fostercare does not work.
38:45
Speaker 1: As Jen says, you can bring in other services, you
38:47
Speaker 1: can bring in faith based organizations and bring in the church.
38:49
Speaker 1: It just can't be up to the government to help
38:52
Speaker 1: the foster care system because it's a broken system. The
38:55
Speaker 1: broken system. That is a great idea what you and
38:59
Speaker 1: Jen are saying, to bring in other agencies such as
39:03
Speaker 1: churches to recruit foster families. And I want everyone to
39:10
Speaker 1: please look at the church and foster care. That's by
39:14
Speaker 1: doctor John DeGarmo and to you, doctor Teresa Gill. Give
39:18
Speaker 1: me something I can latch onto, some way we can
39:21
Speaker 1: make a difference. Well, I think I work with mothers
39:24
Speaker 1: who have a history of abuse, and I think it's
39:28
Speaker 1: important to remember that they were also children and that
39:32
Speaker 1: their histories of abuse also included physical abuse, neglect, sexual abuse.
39:39
Speaker 1: And I have a quote by Selima Freiberg, and she
39:42
Speaker 1: says that a mother's inability to meet and respond to
39:47
Speaker 1: her child's needs is a mother's whose own cries have
39:51
Speaker 1: not been heard, and the understanding around that is, if
39:55
Speaker 1: you have unresolved childhood trauma, what you did in terms
40:01
Speaker 1: of defending yourself against the pain and the sadness and
40:05
Speaker 1: the anger connected to your own abuse, it becomes the
40:09
Speaker 1: defense system that stops you from being able to have
40:13
Speaker 1: empathy towards your own children. And unless you work out
40:18
Speaker 1: the all in pain, you're going to keep reenacting. I
40:22
Speaker 1: appreciate that, doctor Gil. I appreciate that these moms were
40:28
Speaker 1: I be used or neglected in their youth. I can't
40:31
Speaker 1: do anything about that. I want to do something about
40:34
Speaker 1: the children that are being abused right now. Joe Scott,
40:38
Speaker 1: what did this child live through before she was put
40:41
Speaker 1: half naked on the back porch and a rug pure hill.
40:45
Speaker 1: The child had been beaten multiple times. The child had
40:49
Speaker 1: bruising and scratches all over, and this is documented prior
40:53
Speaker 1: to the fatal incident. So this means that you've got people,
40:57
Speaker 1: these individuals that are essentially an ongoing series of torture
41:03
Speaker 1: to kind of drive this child into submission before them.
41:09
Speaker 1: You know, I found it kind of interesting that the
41:12
Speaker 1: dad used the term drama queen when he referred to
41:17
Speaker 1: this precious little baby the hell are you thinking, drama queen.
41:21
Speaker 1: She's three years old. You're locking her in a closet.
41:24
Speaker 1: And for me, Nancy, I gotta tell you, I am
41:28
Speaker 1: sick to my back teeth with defacts. We've heard the
41:32
Speaker 1: same thing over and over again, Nancy. I participated in
41:34
Speaker 1: over seven thousand autopsies in my career between New Orleans
41:38
Speaker 1: and Atlanta. I never saw a single defacts worker come
41:43
Speaker 1: to an autopsy. It should be mandated because obviously things
41:47
Speaker 1: aren't going to change. But if you are directly responsible
41:51
Speaker 1: for the life. I don't care about the parents, I
41:53
Speaker 1: really don't. I look at the body before me. If
41:56
Speaker 1: you're responsible for this child's life, you should be forced
42:00
Speaker 1: to go to the autopsy and witness the things that
42:03
Speaker 1: I've seen inhabit that space, the smells, the sounds, all
42:08
Speaker 1: of the measurements, the injuries. Understand this damage that's being
42:12
Speaker 1: inflicted on these children. You have to understand that because
42:16
Speaker 1: obviously the workers don't care. They're not connected to this
42:21
Speaker 1: in a visceral manner. If they were, we wouldn't have
42:25
Speaker 1: ongoing homicides. And that's what this is. It's a plague
42:30
Speaker 1: of murder. It's what this is. And it's been going
42:33
Speaker 1: on for years and years, and the government will not
42:36
Speaker 1: interdict it seemingly not to send out agencies to go
42:40
Speaker 1: out and fail miserably over and over. If you believe,
42:46
Speaker 1: or have reason to believe or suspect a child is
42:50
Speaker 1: being abused, please call the Child Help National Hotline eight
42:55
Speaker 1: hundred four a Child eight hundred four two two four
43:01
Speaker 1: four five three Nancy Grace Crimes Story, signing off, goodbye friend,