Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / Ep. 255 ~ Jerry, Jack, & Julia

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Ep. 255 ~ Jerry, Jack, & Julia · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

0:05
You remember, like Bob Clark and Doug Campbell, they actually devoted the show
0:11
what was it called The Lives of Right Show. Yeah, what an embarrassment.
0:17
I mean, everything is going to hail down here in Dexton. No
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we dig no, no gods hells. Yeah, what's up everybody? Welcome
1:21
to the show. I'm your host, Big Bad Bob otherwise known as Rob
1:26
Clark, and this is the Lone Guming Podcast, episode number two hundred and
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fifty five. Before we get into the show, day, let us hear
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a word from our most delicious of sponsors, Silk City Baby Silk City Hot
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Folks, you can't beat it. You can't beat the heat. So you
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thought I was gonna say something else, didn't you. You can't beat their
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heat. That ought to be there slogan. Maybe I'll recommend that and maybe
4:03
they'll pay me for that, who knows. But anyway, before we get
4:08
started with the show, we've got a really interesting one here for you today.
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But before we get into it, I want to reiterate that your boy,
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Big Bad Bob and my humble devoted secret weapon side kick Joe Borelli,
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we'll be presenting this year at Lancer virtually, So if you have not secured
4:33
your tickets or traveled to Dallas or signed up at Assassination Conference dot com for
4:42
the virtual feed, head over to JFK Lancer Productions dot Com to secure your
4:48
tickets and uh all that all that good stuff. There's a big, exciting,
4:57
funfilled packed inform it weekend waiting for you at the twenty seventh annual JFK
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Lancer November in Dallas conference. This year, it is the sixtieth anniversary of
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the death of John F. Kennedy. And believe me when I tell you
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this is going to be one that you're not going to want to miss.
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As I said, it is Jammy packed. It's at the Lorenzo Hotel in
5:24
Dallas. If you're going to be going there in person. If you can't
5:27
get to Dallas, head to Assassination Conference dot com for the virtual presentation and
5:31
for registration, visit jfk Lanser Publications for registration details and ticket options. Starts
5:39
on November seventeenth, folks, and through the nineteenth, so make your plans
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now, it will be here before you know it. Also, I wanted
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to remind everyone about my buddy Jason's sixtieth anniversary commemorative edition lego arts of our
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thirty fifth President John F. Kennedy. Now there are two iconic portrait options
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to choose from, available in a white or black frame that would look awesome
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hanging on your wall. Definitely a conversation piece. There's the visionary, the
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man who stood for a strong, peaceful nation, and the hopeful, the
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father to a country with dreams to last generations. There's more than thirty four
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hundred pieces to this lego set, so it is definitely a challenging put together,
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but you will have fun doing it. The finished portrait is fifteen and
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three quarter inches wide by twenty inches and three quarter tall, so this is
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definitely something that will look hella cool hanging on your wall. And if you're
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interested, please feel free to email Jason at two BN dot ca for more
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details and to order yours today as an added bonus order by October tenth.
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Well, shit, we're past that. For free delivery to those attending the
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Lancer Convention Dallas in November. Maybe it's not too late. Reach out to
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Jason. The artist is Jason Sealman, and yeah, help him fund his
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trip to Dallas by getting yourself an amazing, amazing lego set that you will
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not forget. It's definitely an awesome commemorative edition for the sixtieth anniversary. All
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right, without further addea quissant, let's get right into the show, shall
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we. So you know the name of this show is Jerry, Jack and
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Julia, and we're going to be going through some things that I happened to
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come across that I thought would make for some good banter for this show.
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The first thing is in October eleventh, nineteen seventy six, letter to mister
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Rick Feeney, Office of the Honorable Thomas N. Downing US House of Representatives,
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Washington, d C. And this is from a researcher, Jerry Holakoff.
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Dear Rick, Following, per your request, are some of my thoughts
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as to how the Select Committee investigating the Kennedy assassination should proceed. Okay,
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So this is you know, as they're feeling out and getting ready to form
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the House Select Committee on Assassinations, they were asking for suggestions on what they
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should be looking for, what they should be looking at, or what they
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should be looking into. So I came across this pretty cool letter from Jerry
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Pollogroft Jerry Pollokoff, sorry, and we're going to go through his letter here
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to mister Rick Feeney, Office of the Honorable Thomas and Downing US House Representatives,
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Washington, VC number one. Regarding the medical evidence, I would caution
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that extreme care is necessary. As I have suggested earlier, I would strongly
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suggest consultation with Howard Roffman on this subject because of his extraordinary research into this
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area. Harold Weisberg's knowledge is also exceptional in this area. Specific questions should
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include a why were so few people who had seen the president's body called as
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witnesses, and why were some who were called not specifically questioned in this area?
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And view of the ambiguity as to the location of the backwound. An
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effort should now be made to find and question everyone who saw the body,
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and also to determine if they were ever questioned during the life of the warrant
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commission. That is a good idea. I also like his suggestion about Howard
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Roffman, who is a very underrated author, and I really enjoyed his book.
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And of course you know that it was written back in the seventies and
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it's still very it still holds up well to this day. Be At the
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clay Shaw trial, Colonel Pierre Fink, one of the autopsy surgeons, conceded
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under cross examination that military brass took charge of the autopsy and prevented dissection of
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the back wound to determine the path of the bullet. Why and who were
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these individuals. That's a very good question, Jerry, and one that I
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would like to know the answer to. The likely answer is because the back
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wound did not traverse the body, it did not match up to the neck
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wound. That would be my guess. C Under whose direction did Commander Humes
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destroy his autopsy notes? Well, apparently he took upon himself to do so,
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at least according to him. D Why were ambiguous non fixed points used
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as measuring points in the autopsy report? In contrast, the long suppressed Berkeley
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death certificate uses two fixed points, the spinal column and the third thoracic vertebrae,
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resulting, incidentally in a location significantly lower than that found in the autopsy
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report and the testimony of the doctors, which is a problem. Folks,
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D I'm sorry, E. What has been the chain of possession of the
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autopsy material, who has had access and under what circumstances? Again a very
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good point and something that needs to be established. F. Executive session transcripts
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of the Warren Commission refer to the commission having seen at least some of the
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autopsy photos. A photo of the back wound is said to show it below
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the shoulder. There is other evidence to support this inference that this material was
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in fact seen by at least part of the commission. Why was this fact
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suppressed? And why do current descriptions of the material refer to only one photograph
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of the back wound, in which this location is ambiguous because of the position
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of the body and the placement of a ruler on top of the spinal column.
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Again, more good questions. G. Why are there now no X
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rays of the extremities when full body X rays are reported to have been taken.
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H Why do concurrent examinations of the autozi material locate the headwound some four
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inches higher than its localtion in the original autopsy report? Again another interesting question,
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why do fragments now appear in the throat when the autopsy doctors swore there
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were no such fragments. Assuming the authenticity of the autopsy material, and in
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view of the near pristine condition of CE three ninety nine, what does the
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existence of these additional fragments due to the continued viability of the single bullet theory?
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Jay are the wounds not only consistent with all shots coming from behind,
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but also consistent with having resulted from the type of rifle and the type of
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ammunition alleged to have caused them? K Where are the apparently missing photographs known
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to have been taken of the chess cavity? Section two, All major evidentiary
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tests undertaken by and for the Warrant Commission should be redone. This would apply
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particularly to the neutron activation analysis. Three. A sculpatory evidence on Oswald should
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be considered thoroughly. The Warrant Commission began with an assumption that Oswald was guilty
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and dismissed such evidence out of hand. Agreed Section four, the committee should
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investigate evidence that there is an ongoing campaign being waged to point the finger at
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Castro. Those connected with these allegations have curious inter relationships. A. Jack
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Anderson associates and sources include Edward P. Morgan, Frank Sturge's, and Hank
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Greenspun. Anderson owns a piece of Greenspun's newspaper, The Las Vegas Son b
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Edward P. Morgan, who was a lawyer for Howard Hughes, Hank Greenspun
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and Johnny Roselli negotiated the sale of the Desert Inn from Mode Dalits to Howard
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Hughes. Initial contact in the deal was Greenspun, who received a part of
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Morgan's finders fee. Morgan was Anderson's source on the Castros stories, and Dallas
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has connections with Eugene Brading, arrested in Dealey Plaza on the day of the
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assassination. C. Hank Greenspun close friend of Mayhew. Anderson and Morgan had
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close ties to Hughes, which ended at the same time. May Hughes did
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perform public relations for Dallas's Flamingo Club. D. Frank Sturgis, a friend
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of Anderson since the Bay of Pigs investigated by the Warrant Commission in sixty four
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because of his leaks to the Miami Herald implicating Castro in the assassination. Has
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had organized crime connections e Lonnie Hupkins, reporter involved in implicating connections between Oswald
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and the FBI and Castro and the assassination, allegedly was involved in a planned
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CIA contract assassination aimed at Chetty jagand had preassassination ties to the Dallas white Russian
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community with which Oswald associated. Section five. Some methods should be found by
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which staff will be able to take sworn depositions if all the crucial testimony is
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to be taken as it should be under oath Section six. Beware of this
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information, example, Hugh MacDonald be prepared for a flood of trivia from the
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FBI and CIA. I hope the foregoing is of some help. If you
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have any questions, I am ETRA disposal and will do anything I can to
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be of assistance to you. Sincerely, Jerry Pollokoff. So, I think
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Jerry did a good job there, feeding them a little information about what they
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should be looking for. And what they should focus on in the assassination investigation.
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Now. A year later, Jerry wrote to the Honorable Chris Dodd of
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the Unit the United States House of Representatives, and this was in April of
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nineteen seventy seven. He says, Dear Congressman Dodd, because I am covering
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the House investigation for New Times, I have done my best up until now
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to divorce my role as a student of the Kennedy assassination from my present role
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as a journalist. However, after receiving a copy of the accidentally released March
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seventeenth Executive Session transcript from another friend in the media, I find myself unable
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to ignore a section of this transcript which was largely glossed over by most of
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the press because of their lack of understanding of the basic facts of the case.
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I am referring to the briefing given the Committee by Robert Tannenbaum regarding leeds
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currently being pursued by the staff. Mister Dodd, I must be frank in
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telling you that I was appalled to find that in his seven months with the
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Committee, mister Tannenbaum has apparently learned next to nothing about the case and takes
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serious several leads that are dismissed as nonsense or disinformation by most, if not
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all, of the more knowledgeable critics. If this is allowed to go uncorrected,
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the end result will be an investigation that will make the Garrison Probe shine
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by comparison. What troubles me the most is the suspicion that what is revealed
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and the transcript is but the tip of the iceberg. If this is the
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material Tanna bamb Fields is credible enough to present to the Committee, I shuddered
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to think about what he is holding back. Specifically, I was struck by
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the following. Tana Baum begins his presentation with the description of a new witness
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who states that she was introduced to le Oswald of the CIA by Jack Ruby.
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This witness also claims to have taken a film of the assassination, which
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was later confiscated by two agents, one from the FBI and the other from
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the CIA. I believe you have already received the letter on this witness from
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Paul Hawk as a result of the inclusion of her tale in the most recent
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committee report. Her real name is Beverly Oliver, and I first heard her
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story over two years ago from Richard Sprague. I doubted its veracity then,
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and I doubt it even more now, since significant aspects of her story of
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change. This witness, who claims to be the elusive Babushka Ledy, an
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unidentified woman who appears to be holding a movie camera and appears in several photographs
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of daily Plaza taken during the assassination, is written up in books by Penn
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Jones Junior and Gary Shaw. Shaw states further that she was also present at
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a meeting between Jack Ruby and Richard Nixon. This woman's tale is so wild
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that I am amazed that it has given any amount of credibility by the committee.
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To begin with, she claims that she did not know what CI stood
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for when she was introduced to Oswald. I find it almost inconceivable that anyone
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would remember three random letters if they held no meaning to that person. Her
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story about to visit by an FBI man and a CIA man is equally unbelievable
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in view of the rivalry between the two organizations. In fact, when Missus
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Oliver originally recounted her story a few years back, she said the visitors were
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Texas Rangers, and her only testimony regarding Oswald was that she thought she might
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have seen him once with Ruby at the Carousel Club. Examination of the dearly
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Plaza photographs reveals a bubushka lady that appears to be somewhat heavy set and middle
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aged. Missus Oliver was a stunning young lady of about seventeen years old,
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with a statuesque figure at the time. Tannabaum's excitement at the testimony of the
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Parkland Hospital head and nurse reveals a lack of understanding of some of the most
20:51
basic aspects of the case. The fragments referred to by Nurse Audrey Bell seemed
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to be the same ones referred to in the Warren report. The FBI acknowledged
21:02
possession of three small fragments which were taken from the Governor's wrist. Certainly Tannabaum
21:07
should have researched this point before jumping to the conclusions implicit in his briefing.
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To be sure, the single bullet theory cannot stand extensive scrutiny, and there
21:15
is certainly evidence of too many fragments with too much cumulative weight. But one
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need only gain knowledge of the old evidence to demonstrate this fact. In describing
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Connolly's wounds, Tannanbaum reveals that he doesn't even know where they are. He
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seems to be describing four torso wounds while missing the wrist altogether, though it
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seems ambiguous from his language. It appears conceivable that Tannabaum is not even aware
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that the magic bullet was not found in Colony Connolly, but rather was discovered
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by an orderly after it rolled out from under a stretcher presumed by the Warrant
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Commission to have been Connolly's. I do not know what the committee thinks about
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the story told by willem Oltman's regarding George de Mornshield, but there are aspects
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of it that defy credibility from the outset, none of which seemed to have
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occurred to Tannenbaum. The biggest problem is the fact that it seems unlikely that
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Oswald and de Mornshield ever saw each other after April fifteenth, nineteen sixty three,
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when he and his wife Jean paid the Oswald's visit. Shortly thereafter,
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Oswald left for New Orleans and de Morninshield for Haiti. Another problem is that
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de Mornshield doesn't seem to have ever mentioned the name of hl Hunt until three
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weeks after The Dallas Morning News first ran the story about the note allegedly written
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by Oswald. To a quote mister Hunt, it seems unlikely that de Mornshield
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could have been middleman in a conspiracy while physically separated from the alleged assassin by
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so many miles. Furthermore, De Morninshield's protestations after the assassination that Oswald must
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have been a patsy seem out of character for the person who supposedly put the
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right on his hand. From a strictly personal point of view, I find
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myself wary of any conspiracy that places Oswald in the depository as one of the
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assassins. I feel that the evidence incontestably proves that Oswald never fired a shot.
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In describing the arrest of Eugene Hale Braiding, Tannebaum states that a shot
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fired from the Dow text building is consistent with a bullet that struck a curbstone
23:26
on the south side of Elm Street. This is a theory that Richard Sprague,
23:30
which to my knowledge, has never been scientifically substantiated. It could well
23:34
be that this is the case, but it should be treated as no more
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than a hypothesis until the probability of such a such a trajectory can be scientifically
23:45
determined. I am likewise disturbed by Tannenbaum's inferences regarding connections with Shawn Ferry.
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I know of no evidence that satisfactorily establishes that either man participated in a conspiracy
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to kill President Kennedy. There is a big difference between establishing some connections between
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these persons in Oswald and establishing their participation in such a plot. Certainly,
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this too should be explored, but Tannabaum's briefing seemed to me to imply an
24:15
assumption of guilt. Again, I detect the influence of Richard Sprague, who
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is a vocal apologist for Garrison, and implies that Garrison proved his case and
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failed to obtain a conviction only because the jury was gotten to Tannabaum also airs
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in recounting testimony placing shawl Oswald, and Ferry together in Clinton, Louisiana and
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the company of anti Castro groups. There was persuasive testimony placing the trio together
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in Clinton, but there was no testimony linking them to anti Castro groups.
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There the occasion of the alleged event was a voter registration drive. Finally,
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Tannabaum discusses a doctor who was at a resident at Parkland Hospital on the day
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of the assassination, basing his comments not upon firsthand testimony, but rather on
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the second hand assertions of a friend who quote has come forward and told us
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about this. Unquote, this resident appears to contest the official description of the
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wounds as described by the Warrant Commission. Quoting Tannenbaum, it was his impression
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that an entry wound on the Governor's body. There was an entry wound on
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the governor's body. This is the first I have heard that all of Connolly's
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wounds were exit wounds. Evidently the assassins were hidden inside Connolly's abdomen. Obviously,
25:42
Tannonbaum is confused and means to say something other than what he said.
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But the very idea of relying upon this type of second hand testimony when the
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committee as merely to order a physical examination of Connolly strikes me. As in
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basilik, it seems likely that Connolly's wounds are other than represented by his physicians.
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Kennedy's wounds are, of course quite another matter. Entirely Tannabaum repeats the
26:08
secondhand assertions that the resident attempted to examine the president's wounds as was and was
26:14
rebuffed, which by his experience, he deemed to be quite unusual. Just
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how often, then, in this residence experience, did he attempt to examine
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the remains of a dead president of the United States, Mister Dodd. What
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really disturbs me about all the above is that mister Tannebaum, whom I am
26:34
pleased at least, seems to be convinced that there was a conspiracy, seems
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to be relying on the expertise of Richard Sprague and is ignoring several scholarly experts
26:45
whom he is going to have to consult if he is to conduct a meaningful
26:49
investigation. Sprague has done a masterful job of collecting and collating photographic evidence relevant
26:56
to the Kennedy assassination friend of mine and I like him a great deal.
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When it comes to theories about the assassination. However, Sprague is prone toward
27:07
the wildest of fantasies. By no stretch of the imagination can he be called
27:11
a true scholar with regard to the minutia of the case. People like Paul
27:17
HoTT Sock and Peter Dale Scott of Berkeley, Howard Roffman of Gainesville, Mary
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Farrell of Dallas, Mark Allen of Washington, and a few others who do
27:26
possess this scholarship have been virtually ignored by the committee. At one point,
27:32
the Committee went so far as to send out form letters to the critics requesting
27:36
relevant photographs and documents. I understand that controversy will arise from extensive dealings with
27:41
the critics, but the alternative is an investigation that, without their considerable experience
27:47
and expertise, will inevitably lead down blind alleys and false trails, and in
27:52
the end will produce nothing except more questions for future historians to ponder. Can
27:57
you even imagine any other so object where it would be considered controversial for a
28:02
conngressional investigation to consult experts regarding the subject under investigation. Thank you for taking
28:11
the time to read this letter. I am also in closing for your information
28:15
a memoranda prepared by me last year as a request of Committee staff regarding how
28:18
the Committee should proceed. Sincerely, yours, Jerry Polakov. You know he
28:25
brings up some good points there when it comes to wanting to get respected critics
28:37
involved in the investigation, you know, to kind of help steer the investigation.
28:42
So when you leave it up to people who aren't familiar with the case,
28:47
things get a little wacky. Which I think the HSCA did a fairly
28:55
decent job in their investigation. They went down a lot of rabbit holes and
29:03
extracted a lot of never before heard information from never before talked to witnesses.
29:11
Could they have done a better job, Sure, sure, you know,
29:15
hindsight's twenty twenty. But you know, in the end, at least Jerry
29:18
Poulakoff got his wish and Tannebaum was ousted and they brought Blakey in, which
29:26
I don't know how much better he was, but you know, it is
29:32
what it is, all right. Next up, we have a letter from
29:37
Jack Peebles, and again this is from nineteen seventy six, and it is
29:44
also to Representative Thomas Downing of the Select Committee on Assassinations, Dear Representative Downing.
29:55
Now, Jack Peebles was an attorney at law in New Orleans, Okay,
30:00
Dear Representative Downing, I represent a client in the New Orleans area who
30:06
may have information relevant to the inquiries of the Select Committee on Assassinations. My
30:12
client is a professional person who holds a PhD degree in the biological sciences and
30:19
is currently teaching and doing research in the field. She advises that during April
30:26
of nineteen sixty three, she became acquainted with one jose A. Rivera in
30:33
Washington, d C. Who at the time was connected to the National Institute
30:37
of Health as an administrator. My client believes that mister Rivera may have had
30:44
some connection with research activities of the Central Intelligence Agency and may have conducted unauthorized
30:51
experiments on her with drugs during the spring of nineteen sixty three. More interesting,
30:59
she further advises that at the time, the same mister Rivera gave her
31:03
a message to give to Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans upon her return,
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and in fact she did telephone and number provided by mister Rivera and spoke to
31:15
someone who identified himself as Lee Harvey Oswald. She further advises that she gave
31:22
this information to the government immediately after the assassination of President Kennedy, but no
31:27
further inquiries were made of her. She has recently written the CIA and FBI
31:33
and requested information under the Freedom of Information Act, and these agencies have replied
31:38
that they have absolutely no records of significance concerning her. My client would like
31:45
to provide you with any information she can, if you feel that it may
31:48
be helpful to your investigation. She realizes that she cannot produce independent verification for
31:55
much of what she states, and she does not want to be embarrassed by
31:59
having her name in your public records as having been a person who makes sensational
32:04
allegations. Therefore, she has asked me to communicate with you and see if
32:08
arrangements can be made so that if she does provide a statement to you,
32:13
the statement will remain confidential and her identity will remain confidential unless your investigation produces
32:21
independent verification of her statements. Only in that event would she be willing to
32:25
have her identity revealed. I am not personally acquainted with this client, but
32:30
I can assure you that she has produced sufficient evidence to me to establish her
32:35
identity, the identity of mister Rivera, and I have noticed no contradictions or
32:39
behavior on her part which would cause me to dismiss her statement out of hand.
32:45
If you wish to inquire further into this matter, let me know.
32:47
Thank you for your attention to the above, yours truly, Jack Keebles.
32:57
So we have a missis Tree woman who apparently was dosed with something probably LSD
33:07
and had things done to her by jose Rivera. So is this some kind
33:21
of weird payback in a roundabout kind of way, or was this something that
33:28
actually happened. Did Rivera tell her to contact Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans
33:35
and tell it give him a message? What was the message? That's what
33:38
I'd like to know. What the hell was the message. I don't know
33:45
if they further investigated this allegation or not, but very interesting, very interesting,
33:55
And just like that, folks, through the magic of the pause button
33:59
and a little googling, I've got the rest of the story. And it's
34:07
a wild one. So apparently, in nineteen ninety one, a woman by
34:15
the name of Adele Edison made her story public in the Third Decade, published
34:22
by Jerry Rose, and it was called from April to November and back again,
34:30
and to protect her identity, was published under the byline of K.
34:32
S. Turner in the November nineteen ninety one edition of the bi Monthly Journal.
34:39
So we know what she claimed now remember the letter I wrote read to
34:45
you was from nineteen seventy six. All right, this is fifteen years later.
34:52
Okay, So either this woman Adele Edison, is batshit crazy and has
34:58
been holding on to this story for all these years and still going with it
35:04
despite the fact that I guess the HSCA didn't really look into it any further
35:08
than that. But again, she's regurgitating the same thing fifteen years later,
35:14
and now it has perked the interest of some assassination researchers. So let's see
35:22
what she had to say fifteen years later, says. There are, however,
35:31
few official documentary reports on the matter, although some are forthcoming in response
35:37
to the JFK Assassination Records Review Act. But Adele Edison's story can be independently
35:44
confirmed in many respects without official documentation, and subsequent inquiries by Dick Russell,
35:51
Larry Hapanin, John Gooch, and myself I'm reading from a Bill Kelly article
36:00
have confirmed much of what she has to say, and at this point the
36:04
lack of documentation seems to make what she has to say even more significant.
36:07
It is a story that provides numerous leads that should be pursued Edison's article in
36:14
the Third Decade describes how she came to meet doctor Jose Rivera at a medical
36:17
conference in Atlantic City, New Jersey, in April of nineteen sixty three.
36:22
She and Rivera were both medical professionals. Edison in her third year of a
36:27
Tulane University School of Medicine postdoctoral fellowship in conjunction with the National Institute of Health
36:32
Institute of Neurological Diseases and Blindness. She had previously worked on the faculty of
36:38
Rockefeller University, the University of Texas at San Antonio, and and Saint Mary's
36:45
Dominican College and Delgado Community College in New Orleans. When she met him,
36:51
doctor Rivera was manning at booth at the Atlantic City Medical Convention. Upon learning
36:57
that Edison was with Tulane in New Orleans, Rivera said he had been on
37:00
the faculty of the biochemistry department at Loyola, which is also in New Orleans,
37:05
and that he was currently living in DC at the time of their meeting.
37:09
Edison described Rivera as approximately forty five or fifty years of age, about
37:15
five foot three or four inches in height, and obese, sounds like a
37:22
looker. His hair was dark brown, almost black, with some gray.
37:27
He was balding at the forehead and crown. His eyes were brown, and
37:30
he wore corrective glasses with very thick lenses, which greatly magnified the size of
37:37
his eyes. Oh boy, what a handsome fellow. Uh. His complexion
37:49
was quite dark, and he spoke English with a distinct Hispanic accent. The
37:53
Atlantic City Convention Authority records reflected that the NIH sponsored a high blood pressure symposium
38:00
at the Atlantic City Convention Hall in April of sixty three. Edison testified before
38:06
the AARRB in Dallas on November eighteenth, nineteen ninety four, that the meetings
38:13
in Atlantic City were organized by the Federation of American Societies of Experimental Biology,
38:19
an umbrella group of six major biological societies, including the American Physiological Society,
38:24
for which Edison gave a report on her research. The strictly professional conversation between
38:30
Edison and Rivera became friendly, or, as Edison explained it, I befriended
38:36
him or he befriended me. The NIH was their first common tie, with
38:40
their mutual professional acquaintances in New Orleans providing additional associations. It turned out that
38:47
he had taught at Loyola, and we knew some people in common who were,
38:52
for example, doctor Fred Brazda, who was chairman of Biochemistry now at
38:57
LSU Medical School, and a few other people. I was planning to go
39:00
to Bethesda and Washington and visit with colleagues and friends at NIH and also see
39:06
the NIH. Edison later testified, and so he had, in the course
39:12
of our conversations and so on, invited me to his home to have dinner
39:15
with him and his wife and daughter, and also to help me obtain hotel
39:21
or motel space from my visit in Bethesda after these meetings, and to give
39:25
me a sightseeing tour and so on. So Edison arrived in DC on Monday,
39:30
April twenty second, nineteen sixty three. As Rivera had requested. She
39:36
telephoned him at his office, and his secretary arranged for her accommodations at a
39:39
Bethesda, Maryland motel. Rivera picked up Edison in his car and explained that
39:45
his wife, who was a nurse, had been called into duty at a
39:49
hospital. So the two of them had dinner at a Washington restaurant called Blackie's
39:53
House of Beef. It was while standing in line waiting to be seated.
40:01
Edison recalled when doctor Rivera began to talk of his travels in conjunction with his
40:07
work, and he spoke of Dallas, Texas. Edison quoted Rivera as saying,
40:13
when you go to Dallas, you should go to the Carousel Club because
40:16
it's a very nice nightclub. Edison made a mental note of a merry go
40:21
round while Rivera asked her if she knew Lee Harvey Oswald. He told her
40:25
that Oswald had lived in the Soviet Union, was married to a Russian,
40:29
had a child, and they were planning on moving to New Orleans, where
40:31
Edison was then living. She distinctly made a mental impression of the name.
40:37
I vaguely wondered if he was related to a boy I had gone to high
40:39
school with whose name was Fred Oswald. Rivera encouraged Edison to meet the oswald
40:45
saying that you should get to know them. She assumed that Oswald was a
40:49
fellow medical research scientist. Well, he was about as far away from that
40:53
as you can get, Adele. Edison and Rivera then made plans to the
41:00
next night when she would get a sight scene to her and could have dinner
41:04
with Rivera. At his home with his wife and daughter. After excuse me
41:07
spending a day with friends, Edison was picked up by Rivera at her motel,
41:14
where a tall, sharp faced man hailed Rivera and addressed him as colonel.
41:19
They spoke for quite a long while about their times together in an army
41:22
base. His friend spoke of his current work in the Army on telemetry and
41:27
some work with cameras and telephoto lenses. Rivera later told Edison that we're photographing
41:32
demonstrators with telephoto cameras from rooftops. We'll identify individual demonstrators and put their names
41:38
in computer files. We've already started this on the West coast. Edison wondered
41:45
how that could be related to his work as a science administrator at NNDB,
41:50
until Rivera told her of his other office on the Hill and ties with quote
41:54
Foggy Bottom, which Edison thought to be a residential section of the According to
42:01
Edison, after a lengthy drive to view the Cherry Trees, the National Library
42:06
of Congress, Walter Reid, Army Institute in Hospital, the Capitol Building,
42:09
Georgetown, and other sites, we started to approach the White House. While
42:15
they passed the White House, a number of times. The first time they
42:17
went by, Rivera asked Edison, I wonder what Jackie will do when her
42:22
husband dies. After a pause, and Edison's incredulous. What Rivera said,
42:28
Oh, I meant the baby. She might lose the baby. Edison didn't
42:31
even know Jackie was pregnant at the time. That was the first inkling I
42:37
had that Rivera might be implying something sinister concerning President Kennedy. Then every time
42:44
we toured around the White House, he asked me if I saw Caroline on
42:46
her pony macaroni and all kinds of crazy nonsense, And I was beginning to
42:51
think that I was with an absolute madman. Rivera's part of the conversation at
42:57
times was difficult to follow, but many of his statements, such as the
43:00
reference to Jackie, seemed deliberately placed. When he spoke of President Kennedy,
43:06
Rivera was extremely critical of Kennedy's position on civil rights. Rivera made many disparaging
43:12
remarks about black people and the civil rights movement. Rivera also mentioned the Nih
43:19
Edison remembers several times during the course of this evening, and the previous one.
43:22
Rivera referred to the NIH being called the reservation because there were so many
43:27
chiefs and no Indians. I wondered why he had to repeat this so many
43:31
times. Edison, as a professional research scientist, suspected Rivera was using hypnotic
43:37
suggestion techniques on her and possibly even drugs. He spoke of hypnosis. He
43:44
had knowledge of hypnotic techniques and the uses of LSD ding ding Ding, a
43:51
psycho mimetic and hype hypnogogic drug which increases susceptibility to suggestions without causing amnesia.
44:00
Since his wife again was called in to work at the hospital, Rivera and
44:04
Edison had dinner at the Twin Bridges at the Marriotte Motor Hotel across the Potomac
44:08
River. While the dinner was relatively uneventful, Rivera did ask Edison some strange
44:14
questions, like if she knew a lawyer named John apt. After we finished
44:19
eating, he asked me to do a favor for him. When I arrived
44:22
home, Rivera wanted Edison to contact Winston DA mont Sebert a loyalty I'm sorry,
44:29
a Loyola faculty member who was leaving New Orleans. Edison wrote a note
44:34
to herself. Winston da mont Severert called doctor Rivera when leaving New Orleans.
44:40
Then Rivera said to also call Lee Harvey Oswald at eight nine nine four two
44:45
four four. Write down this name, Lee Harvey Oswald. Here's the message,
44:53
folks, tell him to kill the chief Rivera. Sarah then contradicted himself,
45:00
saying, no, no, no, don't write that down. You'll
45:04
remember it when you get to New Orleans. We're just playing a little joke
45:07
on him. Edison said that she still assumed the joke would be on Oswald,
45:12
whom she thought was a scientist and friend of Rivera's. She thought the
45:15
chief was a reference to Elizabeth Hartman, the chief of the Grants and Awards
45:21
section of the nih whom Rivera had earlier joked about as being like the chief
45:24
of a reservation with too many chiefs and not enough Indians. Edison remembers Rivera
45:31
then being agitated and excited. He began talking strangely about it happening, and
45:37
drew a diagram on a napkin, almost incoherent and very agitated. Quote.
45:43
It will be on the fifth floor. There'll be some men up there,
45:45
he said. Edison, quoting Rivera, is saying nonsensical things like Oswald was
45:52
not what he seems. We're going to send him to the library to read
45:54
about great assassinations and history. After it's over, he'll call app to defend
45:59
him. After it happens, the president's best friend will commit suicide. He'll
46:04
jump out of a window because of his grief. It will happen after the
46:07
shrinersh circus comes to New Orleans. After it's over, the men will be
46:12
out of the country. Remember the first time it happens, won't be real.
46:16
Edison recalls, he did not respond to any of my questions about what
46:21
was to happen, and I became even more concerned and suspicious about his odd
46:24
behavior and statements. As I entered his car, he asked me to destroy
46:29
the note that I had made and to forget what had just happened. It
46:34
did not dawn on me that he could have been referring to an assassination of
46:37
the president. The Chief Rivera threatened to Edison about going to the FBI,
46:43
saying they'll want that note. Don't give it to them. I don't want
46:45
to have to hurt you. We'll be watching you, Edison said. I
46:49
became very frightened. I didn't even understand what he was talking about even though
46:52
he had made references to the assassination of the president. About a week after
46:58
Adele returned home to New Orleans, around May one, sixty three, she
47:01
called the eight nine nine four to two four four number Rivera had given her
47:06
from Lee Harvey Oswald, whom she believed was a research scientist colleague of doctor
47:12
Rivers, who had returned from Russia with a Russian wife and recently moved to
47:16
New Orleans. A man who answered the phone said there was nobody there by
47:21
that name. So a week later, approximately May ninth to the twelfth,
47:24
I dialed again, thinking I might have missed dialed the first time. The
47:29
same man answered and seemed surprised when she asked for Oswald, as he said,
47:32
well, they've just arrived. Although Oswald wasn't there. Edison spoke with
47:37
his wife briefly, and although she spoke with a Russian accent, Marina seemed
47:42
to understand the conversation, didn't know doctor Rivera, and said it was okay
47:45
for Edison to call back when her husband was there. The third time she
47:51
called, the phone was answered by the same man, whom Edison believed was
47:54
the landlord. Oswald came to the phone, but denied knowing doctor Jose Rivera,
48:00
Washington, d C. That's strange because he apparently knows you and your
48:05
wife and your phone number, Edison told him. I then asked Oswald for
48:09
the location of the telephone, and he courteously gave me an address on Magazine
48:14
Street, which I placed to be somewhere near the five hundred block for five
48:19
thousand blocks. Sorry, I thanked him and apologized for bothering him. Still
48:23
thinking that he was a scientist, I wondered why his scientists will be living
48:28
in a rather run down part of the city. Needless to say, I
48:30
did not deliver Rivera's message to kill the chief to Oswald. What is really
48:37
strange is that doctor or Colonel Jose Rivera in d C new Oswald's New Orleans
48:43
telephone number on Tuesday, April twenty third, before Oswald himself knew where he
48:49
was moving to in New Orleans. It was the following day, on Wednesday,
48:52
April twenty fourth, when Ruth Payne drove from Irving to the Oswald's Neeley
48:57
Street apartment in Dallas to find the o Oswald's all packed and ready to move
49:01
to New Orleans. They had quite suddenly. Marina later said it was because
49:06
of the Walker shooting incident, decided to move to New Orleans, where Oswald
49:10
was born. They asked Repaying for a ride to the bus station, and
49:15
she was startled by this sudden decision. Reathpayning discussed the matter with them in
49:20
the car on the way to the bus station and convinced them that because they
49:22
didn't know where Oswald would work or where they were going to stay, Marina
49:27
and their daughter should just stay with her in Irving, and Oswald went on
49:30
alone to New Orleans to find a job and located an apartment. Oswald arrived
49:36
in New Orleans by bus and called his aunt Lilian Morett to announce that he
49:39
had returned home and to ask if he could stay with them at seven five
49:44
seven French Street while he looked for work. Missus Morett was surprised, but
49:49
agreed to take Oswald on as a guest until he obtained a job and an
49:52
apartment. After filing for unemployment conversation extensions for his work in Dallas at Jagger's
49:59
child Stowveall, which required cross state approvals, Oswald applied for work at a
50:06
number of locations, including the William b Riley Coffee Company at six four zero
50:10
Magazine Street, where he listed three references his uncle John Marrett, a Sergeant
50:17
Robert Hydell, and Lieutenant j Evans, the last two of which the Warrant
50:22
report claimed are apparently fictitious names, but they're not fictitious. Oswald did know
50:30
a Highdell in the Marines who was living in New Orleans at the time,
50:34
and there was indeed a j. Evans, because, as a report notes
50:37
on the same page. Also on May ninth, Oswald obtained an apartment at
50:43
four nine zero five Dashed Lear seven Magazine Street with the help of Myrtle Evans,
50:50
who had known him when he was a child, and Myrtle had a
50:52
husband named Julian when he was young. Oswald's mother had rented an apartment from
50:59
Myrtle and Julian Evans. After the assassination, Myrtle Evans characterized Oswald as a
51:05
spoiled brat to the Warrenant Commission and Marina's bigrapher, Priscilla Johnson McMillan. Myrtle
51:10
also helped Oswald find the Magazine Street apartment in the same coincidental way that Payne
51:16
found Oswald a job at the school book Depository, recreating Oswald's reintroduction into his
51:22
old neighborhood. Lee went to their building and Julian Evans, who was seated
51:27
at breakfast drinking his last cup of coffee, recognized him right away. He
51:31
had known Lee both as a child and as a teenager, and there was
51:35
something about him that neither he nor Myrtle liked. Julian finished his coffee,
51:39
shook hands with the caller, and left from work. His wife, Myrtle,
51:44
a heavy set woman in her fifties who wore glasses, had red hair
51:47
and a bun, peeped at Lee closely. I know you don't I sure,
51:52
I am Lee, Oswalt. I was just waiting to see when you
51:57
were going to recognize me. Myrtle and Julian thought Oswald was still in Russia,
52:01
even though there was something she didn't like about Oswald. Myrtle took Oswald
52:07
to lunch and helped him find the apartment on Magazine Street. According to Priscilla
52:12
Johnson McMillan, however, she drove Oswald around in her car looking for four
52:16
rent signs until they found one on Magazine Street. Lee spotted one and they
52:21
went in. There were two apartments for rent at four nine oh seven Magazine
52:25
Street, and the bigger one looked as if it might do. It was
52:29
on the ground floor. It had a long living room, a screened in
52:32
porch, a yard, and the kind of iron fence the children can't crawl
52:37
through. The rent was sixty five dollars a month. Myrtle advised Lee that
52:42
it was the best value for his money and he'd better take it. The
52:45
landlady was Missus Jesse Garner, who lived with her husband in an apartment next
52:49
door in the same building complex. Oswald told Missus Garner that he worked for
52:53
the Leon Israel Company and three hundred Magazine Street, when he actually had obtained
52:58
a job that morning Atthy William Riley Coffee Company on the same street. It
53:02
was Jesse Garner who most likely answered the telephone three times that Adele Edison called
53:07
at the request of doctor Jose Rivera. So, I mean, it just
53:15
goes on and on, but that you get the gist of it and feel
53:21
free folks to look At September ninety nine, an article by Bill Kelly called
53:29
a New oswalll Witness goes public about Adele Edison. So was Adele Edison full
53:37
of shit? Or was she legit? If we didn't have this correspondence from
53:45
nineteen seventy six trying to get her story to the House of that Committee on
53:51
Assassinations to be investigated, I would most likely go with the former rather than
53:59
the latter. But since we have that, and many of the contemporary JFK
54:06
researchers were able to corroborate a lot of her story, it's interesting. But
54:13
again, what does it mean? I have no earthly idea and that all
54:20
spawned from a letter from Jack to the House Select Committee on Assassinations. Now,
54:27
let's get to Julia, right, Julia, Julia Julia. On the
54:34
morning of the President's assassination, in the vicinity of eleven o'clock, I was
54:42
driving west on Elm Street towards the Triple Underpass. There was a green pickup
54:47
truck parked on the right hand side of the road with two right wheels up
54:52
on the curve. I was delayed by traffic congestion long enough to observe a
54:57
man removed from the back of the truck a rifle wrapped in paper. Because
55:01
of the delay caused by traffic, I happened to see the face of the
55:06
driver the truck quite clearly. Whilest I was stopped there, he looked at
55:10
me twice. This man was, as I later recognized from his pictures,
55:15
Jack Ruby. The next morning, FBI agents showed me photographs. This was
55:20
on Saturday, the day after the assassination and the day before Ruby shot Oswald.
55:27
The FBI then showed me some photographs to choose from. One of the
55:30
men I picked out was Jack Ruby. When one of the FBI agents turned
55:34
the picture over, I saw Ruby's name on the back. At the same
55:37
time, I also picked out possibilities three other men who were of the same
55:42
type with regard to facial features. This was on Saturday morning, the day
55:46
before Ruby went to the police station and shot Oswald. The next morning,
55:52
I was looking at television with my family when I saw Ruby shoot Oswald.
55:55
I said, that was the man I saw in the truck. From the
56:00
view the television screen gave a Ruby, especially when they showed it again slowly,
56:06
I recognized him as the man who was at the wheel of the truck
56:08
on Friday, and as the man whose picture the FBI showed me on Saturday.
56:15
I know just recently, uh sorry. Part of this copy is I
56:24
have just recently read a report dated eleven twenty five, sixty three, which
56:31
refers to my being shown a photograph of Ruby. It says that quote,
56:37
I could not identify him as the person. This is not an accurate statement,
56:42
because I did pick out Ruby's picture. Also, this report does not
56:45
mention the fact that they showed me Ruby's picture on November the twenty third,
56:50
not the twenty fifth, the day before he shot Oswald. I have also
56:54
been shown a separate FBI report dated eleven twenty three, sixty three, which
57:00
is the day they showed me Ruby's picture. This report states, quote,
57:04
she advised that there was a man sitting under the wheel of the car,
57:07
slouched over the wheel. This man was wearing a green jacket and described as
57:13
a white man who appeared to be about forty to forty five years of age
57:16
and to be of heavy build. This report then goes on to say of
57:21
the second man, the one who got the gun out of the back of
57:22
the truck, that I could identify that second man if I saw him.
57:27
However, I did not indicate that to the FBI at this time. That
57:31
I only felt able to identify the man with the gun and not the driver.
57:37
Contrary to this indication, I had no doubts about what the driver's face
57:39
looked like. This was on the same day they showed me Ruby's picture among
57:45
others, and the day when I picked him in three similar pictures as looking
57:49
like the driver of the truck. I do not know whether the other three
57:52
pictures shown me were other men who looked like Ruby, or whether they were
57:57
three other pictures of Jack Ruby, but they definitely showed me Jack Ruby,
58:00
and I definitely picked him out as looking like the driver. Also, this
58:06
FBI report dated eleven twenty three, sixty three has me describing the green pickup
58:10
truck as having a sign painted on the door. It reads on the driver's
58:17
door the words air conditioning printed in black letters, and the words formed a
58:24
half moon shape. This is not true. Every time I was interviewed,
58:29
and at least two of the interviews were by the FBI, I stated that
58:32
there was no sign of any kind on the side of the truck. The
58:37
words air conditioning were not painted on the truck, nor were any other words.
58:40
It was a plain green truck without any printing on it, and I
58:44
made this clear from the outset. The same thing was done to another purported
58:49
statement which had been printed up as my quote Affidavid, with the heading Sheriff's
58:53
Department, County of Dallas. That Affidavid is also described on the bottom of
58:58
the copy I have just seen as Decker Exhibit five to three two three.
59:04
Neither of the signatures on the two pages of this Affidavid are mine, although
59:07
they are fairly close imitations, except for the way the capital A is written
59:12
in my second name, and I have always used a pointed capital A,
59:16
and whoever signed my name on these two pages used a round capital AA each
59:21
time. Also, I note that a woman has signed her name as a
59:25
notary public and has indicated that this alleged statement was sworn to and subscribed before
59:30
her. This is also untrue. On no occasion during any of my questioning
59:36
was a woman ever present. Like the FBI statement, the affidavit of the
59:42
Dallas Sheriff's Department also has me saying that the truck had air conditioning painted on
59:46
the side in black oval letters. This is not true. There were no
59:52
letters painted on it whatsoever. That Affidavid also has me stating, with regard
59:59
to the driver that quote, I could not see him too clearly that is
1:00:02
not true. I saw the driver very clearly. I looked right in his
1:00:07
face and he looked at me twice. It was Jack Ruby. And I
1:00:13
was not asked to testify before the Warren Commission. Julia Ann Mercer. Now
1:00:20
this was an affidavid that she wrote and signed for the Yarrison Investigation on January
1:00:29
sixth, nineteen sixty eight, which is interesting, folks. It's interesting.
1:00:36
So you know, there's more evidence of if she's being truthful here, of
1:00:40
the FBI and the Sheriff's office altering her testimony for what reason, I don't
1:00:49
know. And again interesting that she was not called before the Warren Commission and
1:00:53
she was labeled a nut job. And one last little thing here that I
1:01:00
came across and found, and I wish that I could show you a picture
1:01:06
of it, because you know that would do it a lot more justice.
1:01:10
But I came across a photograph or not photograph, but a mimeographs copy somehow
1:01:23
the Garrison Investigation received on September eighteenth, nineteen sixty seven. And it is
1:01:30
a library card in the name or it's from the New Orleans Public Library in
1:01:38
New Orleans, of course, and this is what it says. On it
1:01:44
present this card. Each time you borrow a book, you are responsible for
1:01:47
books borrowed on this card and at the very topic. It's an adult borrower's
1:01:53
card. Name CLYM. Bertran, Address thirty one hundred Louisiana, Louisiana Avenue
1:02:05
Parkway, New Orleans, Louisiana, seven oh one two five telephone eight nine
1:02:13
five six seven three five business telephone five two five eight two oh nine business
1:02:20
International trademark business address at the foot of Canal Street, Signature CLEM. Bertrand,
1:02:30
And on the back says, I hereby agree to the following to be
1:02:32
responsible for the return of the library all materials borrowed through the use of this
1:02:37
card, and to pay all library charges for such materials not returned, whin
1:02:42
due to pay all library charges for materials damaged through negligence while in possession of
1:02:47
the user of this card. That when information on the face of this card
1:02:52
is no longer correct, it may be it is my responsibility to exchange this
1:02:55
card for a new one showing correct information. Loss of this car does not
1:03:00
cancel the above agreement, Signed CLYM. Bertrand. Now what's interesting is this
1:03:07
address of thirty one hundred Louisiana Parkway. Louisiana Avenue Parkway is in fact the
1:03:14
same road that David Ferry lived on. Not and play Syall lived on Dauphine
1:03:20
Street, so but I believe David Ferry lived in the thirty three hundred like
1:03:27
thirty three thirty Louisiana Avenue Parkway, So it's in the same roughly blocked like
1:03:36
real close, which is interesting. I don't know what it means either,
1:03:43
but god damn it, it's hella interesting, just like all kinds of other
1:03:46
stuff you know that I bring you every week here on the Lonecoming Podcast.
1:03:52
Remember no new shows will be on YouTube for the foreseeable future until it gets
1:03:58
resolved, So find an auditory stream you like, subscribe, download, listen,
1:04:05
follow on all the socials at the Lone Gumming seven such your boy Peace
1:04:39
Relore three Roo that he was like, oh cheer that everyone who was going
1:05:05
on brown she's a man already. Don't believe one that they tell you be
1:05:20
you a biby eye, the big lie t to tell you the biggie bet
1:05:39
that till the chap came. Yeah, they go little more waiting long Sofa
1:06:01
The Dumper Roup at the con the Coup of the pen I do with ball.
1:06:11
If my gossip song tell me to tell you your bum, the lines
1:06:34
have to tell you the biggest thing that you take a pair take know about
1:06:47
word Oh wait try wait buy hbt hapic wait, throw my hand up from
1:07:01
manything bought uh. Kennedy him that we caught him head and he fell faint,
1:07:05
down him back, made him his card. One was on him head
1:07:11
Kennedy card. Oh no, I don't believe was the challenge you. I
1:07:24
don't know the be the bigging that you t cayehan. We're all oh way
1:07:54
oh where Oh I'll get the flat raise the right to the f m hm