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The Kabbalah with Frater Jin and Matt- Binah & Daath · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What's going to happen?
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: What?
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Welcome to the Occult Rejects. This episode will be continuing
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: on the Kabala Talk that me and Frida Jin the
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: Ninja we're doing.
• 0:33
  Speaker 4: UH started off already.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: With Uh Catherine Chokla, and we will be continuing today
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: with Donna and doth and we will be we will
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: be adding somebody else at the show, hopefully even continuing
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: the series with us.
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: We got mat with us uh before we get to
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: mad Jin.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Let everybody know, just in case they don't know who
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: you are already where they can find all your amazing work.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Sure well, thank you boss, Thank you, mister Andy three.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: And then of course I have I'm with Matt. So
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: I'm so excited because Matt is a content creator and
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: also co hosts with me in the Gray Lodge, and
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: he also runs the Gray Lodge YouTube channel, and so
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: he's been an incredible person to get to know and
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I'm really lucky. So I just want to say that
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: first of all, but if people want to follow me,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: they can actually listen to Matt and I on the
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: latest episode of Threshold Saints, episode sixty five, which is
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Love and K pop, which is about Matt's idea, which
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: is pop Cabala. So using anime, video games, and pop
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: culture just generally music as a kind of hermeneutic to
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: understand Cabala. So this is also something that I do
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: on my show. I call it something a little different,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: but I do. I told Matt that I was sealing
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: pop Cabala, so I will. And so we also have
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: a Gray Lodge space tonight, a data record. It's Friday,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: August eighth, and so if you're interested in hearing Matt
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: and I and Solar Manty the Branch Branch, Joseph Reid
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: and Mike, if you're interested in hearing the seven of
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: us discourse about cabala, about meta politics, about meta magic,
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: then that is the place for you. So come follow
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: us both on Twitter and you'll see the spaces. And
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: thank you guys so much.
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: No, thank you for joining us. I really appreciate it.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: And uh, first time on the show, and we will
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: have to get them on probably just separ lated, you know,
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: kick it with us and talk some ship.
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: But we got Matt. So, Matt, how do you say
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: your last name again?
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: More?
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: I don't want to fuck it up. It already did.
• 2:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah you can say moat it would be Moda, but yeah,
• 2:45
  Speaker 5: pretty much thinking.
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: And you're you're over in Italy right now.
• 2:48
  Speaker 6: Right, yes, speaking from that is awesome.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: I'm hoping to be going there eventually soon myself. That
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: is great stuff. Nice, nice, good for you. Please let
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: everybody know what your deal is, you know what your
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: thing is, where they can find you, you know, get
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: a little introduction.
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: Don't worry about spending too much line.
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: First of all, thanks a lot Nick for calling and
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: Gin as well for the bridge. So very healthy to
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: be here, sell some shows before and very cool stuff.
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: So I'm at Mora, you know, talk about Kabbala, astrology, tyrot, numerology,
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: all the stuff related. You can find me on Twitter, Instagram,
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: YouTube always at met Mora nineteen and there's also my
• 3:31
  Speaker 5: website Kabala dot com. It's written a little bit differently,
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: but we're probably going to show here afterwards. And yeah,
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: I mean talk about a bunch of crazy stuff, but
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: that's what I like. So if you like that as well,
• 3:42
  Speaker 5: make sure to follow me there.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: Awesome, awesome, And yeah, I mean obviously is that you're
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: on here, you're big into the Cabala.
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: I would assume right.
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, that's what I was initiated in, and the
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: one that it's like the foundation for all the other systems.
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: So when I talk about astrology, he talking about astrology
• 4:02
  Speaker 5: with lens.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I would have to say it's probably maybe
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: Jan could even like verify more than I could, because
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: he probably sees how I look at it. But and
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: I'm just used to looking at it like this and
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: don't even realize it. I think probably the same thing
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: with me. I think I tend to just always look
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: at something how it fits on the cabala or the
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: harmatic cabala.
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: I don't think I can. To me, it just makes
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: the most sense to do it like that.
• 4:28
  Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly, it's the same.
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: How long?
• 4:31
  Speaker 7: Uh?
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: How old are you? If you don't mind me asking?
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean the face doesn't doesn't make it clear.
• 4:37
  Speaker 6: But three right now?
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: Holy shit, I did think you were young.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: He's our baby brother in the launch. I always feel
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: like responsibility. I can never, you know, say anything too wilder.
• 4:55
  Speaker 6: You just the next TikTok TikTok generation.
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I don't know if he was ready ready yet
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: to come on deal with me.
• 5:05
  Speaker 5: Fuck, it's just this character you know.
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So who were you, like twelve when you got
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: into this ship.
• 5:16
  Speaker 5: So you know it's actually I'm in itly right now.
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: But I'm from Brazil, So in Brazil we have a
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: lot of.
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that place is fucking loaded with ship.
• 5:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah exactly.
• 5:27
  Speaker 5: So I'll say my family helped a lot in the
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: sense of letting me know this kind of stuff. So
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: I was skeptic at first, not about Cabala necessarily, but
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: like spiritually spirituality in general, right, but my family kind
• 5:41
  Speaker 5: of made it easier for me to double along. I'll
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: say fifteen years when I was when I started actually studying,
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: like okay, let me try and see this without this skepticism,
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: and I was. I got initiated I think three years
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: ago in this Cabala system that I use. So before
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: I was studying by myself, but then I got a
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: proper master and so on and so on, and then
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: it's a a game changer. Really, So I'll say like
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: three years initiated practicing this system that I'm using, but
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: it's studying since fifteen years old, so eight eight years now, yeah,
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: eight nine years.
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: And you said I guess, like I mean, it was
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: just like I guess.
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: Family or friends were kind of like, we're into this already,
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: and that's where you were kind of influenced by.
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: Did you find it like yourself?
• 6:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so my family was very big into like spiritualism
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: or spiritism sorry, spiritism in Brazil, which is big there.
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: So there's like very very minute different branches and one
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: or other things that are kind of related, you know,
• 6:43
  Speaker 5: because in Brazil and there's a lot of mixture. There's
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: like Japanese stuff with like African stuff with native stuff
• 6:48
  Speaker 5: with like Christian stuff is like everything, you know, mixed.
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: So I'd say they gave me some kind of way
• 6:53
  Speaker 5: to start because I would hear the stories. So then
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: I would be curtzy, you know, what the fuck are
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: they talking about? You know, some past life for some
• 7:00
  Speaker 5: person that already died, but somehow they're interacting with them,
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: Like what.
• 7:03
  Speaker 6: The fuck is do?
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: I know?
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: But I would always be skeptical At first. I was like, no,
• 7:08
  Speaker 5: you know what are you talking about? Because I wouldn't
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: have the experiences. But yeah, at least being in Brazil
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: gave me a lot of possibilities to search for this.
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: Like it's very people talk about it. It's kind of common,
• 7:19
  Speaker 5: like even people which are like very strict you know,
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: Catholic or Christians day. They will talk about it, so
• 7:25
  Speaker 5: you'll hear about it. It's not gonna be very foreign.
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: I feel like in Italy or let's say European in general,
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: now since I came, it's it's like very different people
• 7:34
  Speaker 5: are more used to the traditional things, that is, the
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: ones that I interacted with. I don't know, like maybe
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: I'm not in the correct groups, but it feels like
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: it's harder to talk about these things or they are
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: coming up to some ideas which we are talking about
• 7:49
  Speaker 5: in Brazil, like for so long already. The environment definitely.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: Helped, Yeah, I think I yeah, Brazil trees. Honestly, I
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: think if anybody to start a cult, just go to Brazil.
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, definitely make it. If you got the money to,
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: you know, go over to Brazil. You got it.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: It's a double edged story because there's a lot of
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: serious people there and doing like good mercy. There's a
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: lot of then like I called him, schizoterism, you know,
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: like there's a lot of skitz.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: Have you real quick, and then we'll get into the
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: actual topics like what we're going to talk about. If
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: you don't want Matt. Have you ever heard of the
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: Valley of the Dawn. It's a it's a cult out
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: in Brazil.
• 8:34
  Speaker 6: Let me see.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah maybe yeah, Value of the Value of the Dawn.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: There is like a name for.
• 8:40
  Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, with the thing.
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: There in Brazil.
• 8:46
  Speaker 6: There's a lot of crazy been talking about covered.
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: That the last three years. Maybe it will happen.
• 8:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: There was a guy I think like in English would
• 8:53
  Speaker 5: be Joan of God or something like that, like he
• 8:55
  Speaker 5: used to like Oprah.
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, tell anybody wants to start a weird stuff, Yeah,
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: you can make it.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm not being shady, But there is something funny
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: about this is that a lot of modern a lot
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: of guests that we've had, that you've had on this
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: show probably have been there at are modern magicians. They're
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: really into fucking Kimbanda. This is something Madden and I
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: have talked about, like very extensively for like a year
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: almost is like this interest in like modern Kimbanda and
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: what it means for modern magic in general, and like
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: why why in particular Kimbanda. I just think it's interesting
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: And then they'll say, oh, I'm a shaman, Okay, you're
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: a shaman, but you're also practicing kimbanda, so you're not
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: quite a shaman.
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: I don't even what is that. I don't tell you.
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: Hand it's like left hand path usually mixture with like African.
• 9:49
  Speaker 6: Uh spiritual spiritual stuff.
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: But also like Native Native Latin American and like they
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: always mix some stuff, but it's very like left handed.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: The reason I wanted to cover that cult that I
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: promise we'll get to do the Cabalah. They they are
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: another ones thinking like aliens are coming, you know, usual,
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: and so like those always just assumed like there's gotta
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: be a scam out of somewhere and you know, or
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: an actual real occult is somewhere that's duping people. And
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: like I was going through like all these sites and
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: just looking at their pictures and shit, you know, and
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: I'm like starting to collect stuff because I was like, yeah,
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: I think at this point i'll cover them. You know
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: again three years ago, still have the folder. I haven't
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: covered them, but I was looking at this shit and
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: like I think National Geographic even did something on them.
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: So like these had good quality pictures and there was
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: one that I was like it was like showing like
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: it's some Egyptian set up, and like in the middle
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: of it was like it was like a cut open
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: you could walk in, and then there's like this drape
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: that's hanging from the ceiling and it looks like this
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: like circular cushioned.
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: Seat in the middle of it.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: But it just looks like that's kind of like in
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: the background, just hanging out there. I don't know what
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: it was, and it was probably stone to some shit.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: And I was like, looking at the picture, I was like, Yo,
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: it looks like this somebody in there, and I assumed
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: that thing open and I'm like, yo, there's a motherfucker
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: in there with the Astra margentum robe on.
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: I was like, oh, here we go. Now I know
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: what the fuck is going on.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: That's why everything looks like it's golden dawn and Oto
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: style over there.
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: Makes sense now I know who's making money.
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I cannot speak for those guys. I don't I
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: didn't double that much on them. But there is definitely
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: a lot of like siops right now there in Brazil,
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: like a lot of stuff they cook there because there's
• 11:31
  Speaker 5: also a lot of people in there open to this,
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: so they'll test is like test grounds you know, for
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: the special like especially also with the you know, uh
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: because in Brazil if.
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: It works, yeah, we'll bring it over to America.
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I Auska's sleep of in Brazil, so you can
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: actually use it in like uh ritualistic or spiritual setting
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: and also much rooms. So again it's very easy to
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: like start something and then you put people into this
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: kind of stuff and don't knows what comes from there,
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: you know, so you've got our ready to know how
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: to filter out the I'll say anywhere.
• 12:06
  Speaker 6: But they're especially like.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: All right, so now we're gonna get into it. But
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: nah uh yeah, that is the third the third sep
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: third sphere on the tree, and it would be like
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: on the top of the top of the pillar of severity.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: Some people look at that. It would be the left
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: hand side. Some people would say that's you know, the
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: feminine part of the tree. I'm just gonna read off
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: like some of the kind of basic associations with it,
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: and then we'll kind of get into I guess, you know,
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: freestyle on our experience, our idea of it. If any
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: of you want to interrupt me, please just interrupt me
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: as I'm going through it. You know, a lot of
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: these I had mentioned it last time. They have associations
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: with it with Benigh again. That will be the third
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: sphere of the black sphere on the top of the
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: left pillar, and the magical image for that would be
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: considered a mature woman or a matron.
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: I think jen Pie Matt would even agree with me.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: I think sometimes you'll get a little bit more of
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: a mature woman, maybe a little bit like older or
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: maybe the old hag might go there. Sometimes the divine
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: name would be Jehovah Elohim. The archangel would be Zafkiel,
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: which is governing the Ralim with the thrones, the planetary
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: you know. Thing that would go along with it would
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: be Saturn. I think everybody will not everybody may know that,
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: but yeah, that's where Sading goes spiritual experience, the vision
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: of sorrow, and then the virtue is silence, but the
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: vice is avarice. And if people don't know what avarice means,
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: it's basically just being like a sloth or not doing anything.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: Symbols and colors, you could have a chalice, vesica, pisces.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: It's also considered the outer robe of concealment. Chokla is
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: considered the inner robe of concealment. Crimson would go with this,
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: Black would go with this, Brown would go with this, uh,
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: gray and pink through the full world. The Taro threes
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: would go with that cosmic Uh what else? Uh Yeah,
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: that's basically kind of just I wanted to just get
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: that in there because a lot of that stuff I
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: think will show up as like symbology.
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: Uh you'll see it in art possibly taro and stuff
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: like that.
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: So uh but yeah, I guess if you don't mind,
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: jen if I put you on the spot for you,
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: like I guess through your workings and experience with the Kabbala,
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: how do you kind of like view I guess be
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: Na in a sense.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: I always this is a rhyme I always do because
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: I find it very mnemonic, like a way to remember things.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Is time is always contained in your mind, but it
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: really starts at the nah, Like the greatest conception of
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: time is really there. So it is really the understanding
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: of cosmic time rather than our individual experience of time,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: which is more ysotic. So there's that's again, to bring
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: that back from last night. It's the Saturn moon matrix.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: It's like the it's the through their three worlds of
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: conceptions of time. Right, there's the sun and moon, which
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: is a second like a tertiary, which would be like
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Gebra and Hesseid, sort of tipherotic time. Then you would
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: have individualized time or phenomenological time. Even you could say
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: that's very asotic. But then you have the more intellectualized
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: expansion or maybe you're coming to that if you're saying, oh,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: I'm Adam Kadmon, or I'm the adamante Man or I'm Enoch,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: and so my at my peak of who I am,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: i am maybe infused with cosmic time. So maybe that's
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: kind of a way that Saturn gets to be the
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: king of at least least some of the world's Like
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: everybody says, oh Saturn, black cub matrix, that's like the
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: you know, the evil, the evil time king. But in
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: a way, as we always talk about, Saturn is just
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: an outer density name. It's just a planet. So it's
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: not what we're essentially referring to in the Sephra, but
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: it definitely it tells you a story. It's it says
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: like there are elements of this, they're just bringing things in.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: So in Joe Tish, Saturn is the lord of Karma Saturn.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Praise to Mahakala, the king of Time as a much
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: higher god. Mahakala, Praise to Maha Kali who is his
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: consort or his wife. And I even put a pick
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: diagnested a picture in that. You don't have to bring
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: it up, Nick, but I'm just saying it's there if
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: you want it.
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I wasn't sure who pulled that up, Sar.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: No, that's okay, and so it so Nex's right. So
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: there is the idea that she can. So I could
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: have chosen an image with Collie by and I maybe
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: will for later. I'll find one when I'm not going.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: But this is them together. So this is a more
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: contract conception of Benna really is that it's really in
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: because you see even the fire, the fire is rising
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: beneath them. The carnal fire from Geverra and Saturn is
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: sort of tempered by Mars in many ways, especially in
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Vida astrology. Mars is the sort of protective force that
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: people often pray to. Mars or martial deities. Hanuman the
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Monkey King, or for Indians they think of him as
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: the Monkey King. He's not quite the same, but they
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: pray to him for kind of protecting them against Shanning
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: or Saturn, because he is the power of Mars in
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: its fullness. So you can see there's like a fire
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: of effulgence coming up from the burning ground. So the
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: earth Bna is very much related to the earth, like
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: it's really true earth almost you could say, like a
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: true that's purified, and that's even what the fire is doing.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: So it's a solid ground. But with the concert there,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: it's really interesting. If you say the husband or the
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: male archetype is time, then the female concert has to
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: be Kully the destruction of time. So when they're together,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: it's a constant sort of dialectical arrangement of coming and going,
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: matter densifying and then breaking up. It's kind of like
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: the I think of it all as layers of consciousness.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: So when we sort of come across a new idea
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: and then we explore that new idea and then we say, okay,
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: I don't need to be contained in that, and we
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: kind of destroy it, there's kind of the apocalypse of revelation,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: and so that's what I personally. So this is just
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: me ginriffing, but those are things that I associate, particularly
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: with Bana and text on paper. That's a very important
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: allegory I've used before, and I think that a lot
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: of misunderstanding of Banah. I'm using that word very specifically,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: but a lot of misunderstanding arises in what Saturn and
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Bana is. It's really the text on the page, the
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: black text, which can also appear flashing purple very interesting,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: can also appear red in candle light. Bright black has
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: many interesting qualities, especially on a white vellum page. So
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: the text is really the codified thing. So the text
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: can also be said to be like the Bible or
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: the law or things of that nature. Now we don't
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: interact with those texts specifically at Bana. Like we've talked
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: about in the last episode. I said, has lawyers in
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: particular embody has said really well, because they pull at
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: the reins of like the fixed conceptions of Saturn. Sorry, guys,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: you guys, go ahead, just give me one second.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: One thing I did want to say with the fire,
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: you know, the thing I was thinking about that with
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Gouboro being underneath the Saturn on the left hand side
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: of the tree, I often do think that could be
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: even like almost like alchemical where you're getting the black
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: purification by fire you even get like a lot of
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: old the alchemists that I've covered on the show or
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: occultists that go on about this purification of the soul
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: through fire. So I you know, again, just you burn
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: something down to soot, I mean, it's gonna be black.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: So I do wonder about like the whole red and black,
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: you know, if that's that plays into each.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Other absolutely, especially when you note like the sounds for
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: color theory, blue is really black when you're at this,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: like for this image, this is really black, Like this
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: is Collie or Croda or Krishna, all words to describe block,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: but it's really blue black. It's really the color of
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: lapis lazuli. That's also a sky blue color.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: That's what the ceiling of the oto is a blue
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: black with the white stars. And I know I've mentioned
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: this before, whatever, I'm just going to say it again.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: The Sistine Chapel wherever Michaelangelo did that shit, uh before
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: he painted that on, then it had the same ceiling
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: that the Oto uses, blue black ceiling and white stars.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: I mean you can say, Nick that that's the whole
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: lesson of Kabbala, is that the differentiation of like the
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: dark sky the night sky with the clear blue sky,
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: because both of those things are really clear, the turquoise
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: color of Hessaid as well as the Lapislazuli color of Bina.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: So I think that there is a way to sort
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: of come to understanding of what the natures of things
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: are just because they appear as something, which is a
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: very Bana way to sort of be in misunderstanding is
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: to fear maybe the thing that appears before you, just
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: like Collie on the carnal ground, like all the demons,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: all the ghosts, all the vitalis, all the pretas, they're
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: all surrounding her, and so she has to rise up
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: on the corpse fire and sort of like say like
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, actually destroy time. But time is really the
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: perception of your mind.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that is something that I would would definitely like
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: to ad with Nah when it comes to time, even
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: life and death.
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think once you like burst into this.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: Physical reality, even if it's a thought, I mean either
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: it's gonna you know, or physical or ends up turning physical.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: It's you know, has an expiration date and.
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: Time.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: I feel like I guess first I'd like to say,
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: like the way I look at it, Beina is kind
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: of like two different ways, or it's a door that
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: swings both ways. You're either going into the abyss and
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: separating your soul from the flesh. You're kind of going
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: back before you were conceived into the flesh. I already
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: even say a little crazy like almost back in time,
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: or you're coming back into reality after the magical experience,
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: or you're being berthed into here. I guess your next
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: go round or whatever it is. So like I see, like, fuck,
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: where was I going with that?
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: Well, time, I see it as constructing time when you
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: come into here. Uh, I don't know something I've even
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: struggled with before. And then I even like when I
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: was covering someone else, I think it was Platinus. He
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: was even saying, like to even try to like time
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: doesn't in his mind doesn't or the way he was
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: explaining it doesn't apply to the abyss in his way,
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: And like I would have to say, I guess from
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: my experience, I don't think it is sort of even
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: for me to try to say, I guess some all
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: this sort of different time. But I guess it's the
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: removal of it or making it, you know, making it exist.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: I feel like like binad does does both of that again,
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: I do think, you know, when it comes to magic,
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: there is an actual physical death if you want to
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: go that far. And I do think that is even
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: represented in in being ad like.
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: That's why I.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Think death is actually you know, considered to go along
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: with Saturn, and then the rebirth, in my opinion, happens
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: in the same sphere. It's just into the spirit, it's
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: or it's into like the mind, you know, it's not
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: actually like matter anymore, you know. The vision of sorrow,
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: that's an experience and for me, I could be wrong,
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: but like I could say, for me, the vision of
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: sorrow was real in the sense that after I had
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: experienced what I experienced, divisions and the experiences that I
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: had in the Abyss obviously let me know that the
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: way I had viewed the world prior was not correct
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: and it's not what I thought it was. And I
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: will be honest, there was a little bit of being
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: upset about that. I felt like I was lied to
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: and like just things aren't. It's hard to explain, but
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: to for me, it was a it was a little
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: bit of sorrow with knowing truths that maybe I wasn't
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: like looking for you, I don't know. Maybe that was
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: just me being a pussy and that's not what the
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: that's not what the experience is.
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: But that's how it worked for me. I did feel
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: some sort of sorrow.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: I would even say I felt sorrow from being separated
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: from that experience again, you know, of having that experience
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: and being like, what the fuck? Why am I stuck here?
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: If that's existence? Why the fuck am I stuck in
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: this fucking reality? So all I had that in and
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: then anybody else can go have some.
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: Other shit all.
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: It is very interesting though, that the saturn or banaw
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: or whatever, right, the black sphere is supposed to be
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: the one that is contracting right or organizing or even
• 25:44
  Speaker 5: you can say destroying when you say, when you put
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: like Shiva in that swhere, you can say it's destroying
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: the illusions. So it's when you come into the understanding
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: of the situation, like what you're saying, Okay, I understood
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: the experience that I was having. Maybe wasn't the best.
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: Now what do you do with it? You know, in theory,
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: you should grow wise, you should become wiser now that
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: you understand. But at the same time, it's also like
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: you're it's kind of like you're almost out, so you get.
• 26:10
  Speaker 6: A taste of you know, do I go out out
• 26:12
  Speaker 6: or now I.
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: Have to come back and you know, completely experience or
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: whatever it is. So also regarding time, it is so
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: we can use, for example, the Greek example of chronos time,
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: but also there's the kitos time, right, So chronos time
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: being the one which is ordering things, so the let's
• 26:30
  Speaker 5: say the calendar or the hours like they counted time,
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: thee the future that we expect, the past that already went,
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: and so on and so on. But then there's also
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: kitos time, which you could say it's like the digital time,
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: like chronos being the analog the one you count, Kitos
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: being the digital because it's the time that it's actually
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: the only time that exists. It's like the actual moment,
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: the moment right now, that that when you are experiencing
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: something and you are present there, like you when the
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: flow in once on. And I would say that time
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: isn't necessarily be nah because it's this kind of time.
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: It could be even maybe in that it's like outside right,
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: like you're outside of the experience. Or another way to
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: visualize it. Also it's imagine you have like for people
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: who edit videos, or when you're watching a video, you
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: have the whole timeline, right, but you're always watching the
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: video at one point, but you as an outsider, you
• 27:21
  Speaker 5: can see the whole timeline, so you could skip and
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: come back and so and so. Again you're outside of
• 27:26
  Speaker 5: the chronos time, but you have to interact with it,
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: you know. So again, it's a very interesting to visualize
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: your life as well, when you look back at things
• 27:34
  Speaker 5: and see.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: You know what I think is probably a really good
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: way to explain it. It just sound cheesy. It's like going
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: from like you know, in the flesh and all of
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: a sudden, like now I'm looking like at the orphan,
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: how like you can almost like just see like be
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: all over you know what I'm saying. That's what it
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: just seemed like to me. I was like that was
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: a you know, one from one extreme to the next.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: I'm saying, just from this point of view to like
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: fucking everything everywhere once, it was just weird.
• 28:01
  Speaker 6: Exactly you need.
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: And that's the thing as well about me now, which
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: is I'm guessing you guys already did an episode on Homan,
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: but it would be like the thing was now expanded,
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: right the light was reflected. So now you have everything
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: going on in the chaos, everything going on. But if
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: you only have that, then you cannot have anything like
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: you cannot have let's say a particle, a thing that
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: to hold on to. So Bna comes to again aggregate.
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: It's like the I think it's like the Zin, which
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: is like the contractor to zoom, I think expands and
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: zing is the contractor. I don't remember exactly the name
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: in Hebrew, but that's idea, like you're contracting the chaos
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: so that you can have an experience. So like to me,
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: that's what the left column is mostly about, the savery column.
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: It's like contracting things again mars like being disciplined, or
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: like the control of things again hot making things rational,
• 28:49
  Speaker 5: like place things inside your left brain in one and
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: the right colm the opposite. So again at dens like
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: the beginning of the contraction, the beginning of again trying
• 28:59
  Speaker 5: to understand something. So if you cannot like away, also,
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: I like to explain it when you're getting down the tree.
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: So like the lightning path, when you need to create
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: something again, you need to first have the idea of
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: what you need to create the insight right the cat there.
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: You need to be able to like visualize it and
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: see it again the wisdom of it, because if you cannot,
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: then well, whatever you want something, but you cannot even
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: describe it, It's it's impossible, right and be nah, it's
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: like the light which is homa becoming sound. So it's
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: when again you're understanding the thing in a way that
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: you can actually explain it. So and that again it
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: doesn't have to be crazy, right, Like when you're ordering food,
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: you need to be able to explain the type of
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: food you need you want to order, otherwise you cannot
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: order food like such a basic thing, right. So, and
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: it grows to to other complexities whenever you want to
• 29:49
  Speaker 5: manage cooperations as one.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: That's one of the I think you said that great man.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: I think that's and also neck of course, but I
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: think you know, I think you're both right. Think it
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: all sort of converges on this thing. It's like it's gravitational.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: I think that's also very much associated with bana. If
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: you want to give it more of an astro physical
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: sort of idea, it's like Matt said, it's the densifying factor,
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: it's the aggregating factor, it's the conglomerting factor. It brings
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: things in. And that's also why like this Attornian element
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: is led, and it's also why like there are different ideas,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: different colors that you can describe. Obviously Nick describes some.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: But I want to bring this in because I find
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: it really interesting just intellectually, whether you believe it or not.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: But there is Ramic Rabbi Cordovero who spoke about last
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: time he did write about the green flashing of Banah.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: So I always found this quite interesting because in a
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: lot of the Sufi texts they will often also talk
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: about this in terms of like they'll I've seen images
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: where they'll have El Kadeer. So if you're familiar with
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: El Kadeer, he is the green man, and he's like
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: a Sufi and he wears a green rope. He's not
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: quite as Sube saying, I mean he is and he isn't.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: So it's kind of a mixture, but it's a The
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: idea is is like when you're there, there is a
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: green sort of element of reflection. So you can probably
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: understand that through you could say through nets SoC you
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: could also say through hesse and and maybe even through
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: different and then I think all of those things. Obviously,
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Matt uses a different system, so I'm not I'm not
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: saying anything in contradiction. Of course, I see it to Matt.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: But I think it's an interesting thing to think about
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: because why it's a very specific sort of idea. Anyways,
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: I pulled up an icon that kind of shows this, Nick,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: and I just want to say, like, so if you
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: hear about this a green flashing at Bina, you can
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: also relate it to, as I said, the sort of
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Bina nets SoC connection, sort of like the feminine divinity
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: with the sort of forming formational force of the world
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: that is Bana. But of course I like what Nick
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: said last time, which is like every suffra has a
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: masculine and feminine component. There's it's it doesn't. In my opinion,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: it's just me. I don't think it serves anyone to
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: be inherently dualistic in how they approach the suffra. I
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: think that's going to color your kind of relationship with death,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: which is obviously in the inner density.
• 32:29
  Speaker 7: I would say, yeah, somebody think somebody made a question
• 32:40
  Speaker 7: here about misunderstanding possibly being the cliff of Bina.
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: I would say, in a way to me it's more
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: about coding things. So when again you when you're using
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: the power of contract contraction to prevent the life from
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: going outside, then you're being an agent, you know, and
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: a coal agent, like you're trying to not get the
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: information to be understood, therefore misunderstanding. Kind of yeah in
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: a way, but you see the way I understand being
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: as well. It is one of the spheres most used
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: for coding stuff or couding things in this reality. So
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: like I really relate sound to be not so like
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: music is a very potent way to control people like that.
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: You go to like the church mass, they're like playing
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: the music, especially like the most crazy ones which they get,
• 33:32
  Speaker 5: you know, all the performance there in Brazil you have
• 33:36
  Speaker 5: a lot of those, and you are again playing that
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: music in the background the guys like talking all the
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: things that you want to hear and so and so on.
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: But the same like you go to a concert, they're
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: playing the music there to you know, change how you
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: are feeling, how you're thinking. And the same now with
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: even TikTok, they put like the music in your head
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: all the time, like the same music over and over,
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: like reprogramming you and so on, and music it's a
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: very powerfu way to like occult stuff. Or even I
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: saw the other couple of months ago, I think in Serbia,
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: if I'm not being saken, there was this like protest.
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: There was a lot of people in the streets in
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: this one, and they used like a super sonic whatever
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: weapon like just made a huge sound and like it
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: dispersed everyone, Like nobody knows knew what the fuck was
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: going on because it was such like a huge sound.
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: It was like high pitch or whatever, and people just
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: were dispersed like with the easy you know, quote unquote
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: easy like there's no guns anything, it's just the sound
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: thing made everyone go away.
• 34:33
  Speaker 6: So again, it's very very powerfult.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: You don't want to rip uh when you talk about
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: the expansion of the contraction and stuff like that. That
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: even makes me think about how I attribute the eyeballs stuff,
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: you know, because that does happen, and that determines how
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: much light is getting sucked in or not.
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: So I just wanted to throw that in there.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: I think that the eye stuff that you've pioneered neck
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: in the sense that like what modern people are talking about,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: I think that that's one hundred percent correlates with Bena.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: I think it makes sense even in the iconography you
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: have pulled up right now. I think it looks very
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: much like a magical experience and like an eye and
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: things you'd see. So I'm hung there. And but also
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: to go off with what Matt said about sound, I
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: think this is a really interesting point. Collie is kind
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: of the time of silence. Like Nick will often say this,
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: because it's very it's a hermetic kind of way to
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: frame that same experience that everybody really has, like any
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: magician has. But yeah, she doesn't speak because her tongue
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: is lolling. She can't speak the primordial word. So it's
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: kind of interesting if you think of it like that.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: He's not the prime creatrix, she's just the prime mover.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of an interesting difference that Tantra sort
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: of applies to the tree, is that Collie is not
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: the originator of either knowledge or the sort of greater
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: tree itself, but she's maybe exactly what Matt said, the
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: encoder of it. And then you can also say that
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: the klipa of Benna really is the occulting of things, occulting,
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: particularly of both exoteric and esoteric knowledge. So institutions, any
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: institution and university, you know, a secret fraternity of magicians
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: that they're all guilty of occulting the government. They all
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: you know, it's all the practice of Kleipa making all
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: of that.
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: All the big corporations, Like the CEO is not going
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: to have like a camera at the room, but everyone
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: is going to be watchable by the corporation, right, like
• 36:48
  Speaker 5: the higher you go, the bigger the company. Again, it's
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: going to be less and less transparent what exactly is
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: going on. And also governments, Yeah, like you.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Said, absolutely absolutely and so the but there is a
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: like we said, also it's like there's something inherently unstable
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: about this sephra because it's not really it's not really
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: meant to be. Uh, it's outside of the eternity that
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: is nuts socks. It's almost it's not quite unbound from
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: the you know, fixture, but it kind of goes according
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: to its own rules, which has very been all like
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: it's its own ruler. So exactly what Nick said, like
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: you both come and go here, you come into flesh
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: and you come out of flesh. You can say you're
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: stripped down to your bones. That would be a very
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: contract way to describe it, right, like you put the
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: body in the in the cremation fire and you strip
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: it all the way down to the bones and then
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: the vultures eat the rest or the crows, depending on
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: where you are. But no, that's basically it. So I agree.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: It's it's like it is the prime representation of the
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: carnal ground where we exist. You could say, but this
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: is also obviously consciousness. I'm not saying it necessarily real,
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: but you could say, that's one way to think of it.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: But once you get greater in your understanding, you're like, oh,
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: I can actually look at these things in different ways.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: I can perceive them. My view has changed. The way
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: the angle I approach things from can be different because
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: I'm not so locked into a discursive mode ideological mode.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: That's another really interesting klipa of Bena is to put
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: people into silos. That's also very academic, right, like, oh,
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: this person studies, okay, so for me, I studied the
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: tontric art. I mean basically, so that's a very limited
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: way to look at the world. You're really in like
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: a very fixed perception. But ben not can also help
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: you break out of that. But people don't realize that
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: usually because it's so much associated with Saturn and so
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: much associated with fixed things and magnetization and all that.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: But really it's a we're talking supernova. It's really processes
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: of consciousness. And that's really where, in my opinion, real
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: magic is.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: I like that.
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: The magnetization, Yeah, I would even look at the left
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: pillar alone as a magnet in the right pillar is
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: like electricity or energy. Yes, something, you know, I did think,
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: like you know, we're talking about, you know, kind of
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: a doorway. You know, even sat In itself is associated
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: with air, which is where I think, like you kind
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: of start going into spirit, does not't matter anymore, you're
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: traveling through the air. And not to sound cheesy, I
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: brought this up a while ago, and there's newer people listening,
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: so maybe they'll they haven't heard me say it, and
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: it's just something I swear. I just I think I
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: might be onto something with this. You know, I have
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: brought up Charlie Brown before when it comes to Saturn.
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: You know, I mentioned before that brown can be a color.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: And he's even got a yellow shirt on, which is
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: the color for air, and then that does look like
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: the Aquarius symbol across his fucking shirt. So I do
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: question if Charlie Brown is actually really like Saduren in
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: a sense. Yeah, And then he's got his boy on
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: top of the red barn. Is that a bora right
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: underneath him?
• 40:15
  Speaker 6: His dog.
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: The red the red little doghouse at the barn. But
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: I think there's actually a lot of a cult symbolism
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: in Jolly Room.
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: That sounds crazy.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: Well if you interpret it, if you interpret it as
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: like like how Matt says is pop Cabala, then absolutely
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: then you can just see like he's using his associations.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: Maybe he's not even thinking of Cabala per se, even
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: if you.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: Go like Croley's New Wheat or Crowley's Chick, you know, uh,
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: always talking about again going back to the blue and black.
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: He's got Lucy, you know what I'm saying, black hair,
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: blue outfit. I don't know.
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: I just think there's like a lot of like again,
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: that same symbology. This is something weird in that that's.
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: Just my you know. And and if you think about it.
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: Technically, at the bottom of the blue pillar, you know,
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: the top of the blue the right hand side, even
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: though it's male down at the bottom, you would have
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: a female even though the top of it is a
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: blue color whatever. Just I do think that might be
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: called symbolism and Jolie frem.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: No, there absolutely is. But even the way you said
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: about like Bena and nuts sock like Matt. We'll speak
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: more to this, I'm sure, but that's a really interesting
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: sort of pathworking. Ye, and it's all right. And then
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: it's also like so has a connection to tiffer it
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: so you would get like slight green, you would get
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: slight gold, you would get like there are elements that
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: you are coming up and so you can see where
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: people are maybe getting stuck, since that is kind of
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: Beenah's kind of quality until you choose or you kind
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: of orient yourself to not be stuck because you need it,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: but you have to, like I think, be conscious of
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: your relationship with it too.
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's also an interesting way to meditate on what
• 42:05
  Speaker 5: you are hiding from yourself, like especially failures. Right we
• 42:08
  Speaker 5: tend to say, no, you know, I'm perfect, I don't
• 42:11
  Speaker 5: have any failures in some one that's going to be
• 42:13
  Speaker 5: like the cliff of Beina acting on you, which you
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: can again you can rectify, you can know like shine
• 42:18
  Speaker 5: light on that. So that you start to work on
• 42:20
  Speaker 5: those like that that should be the cliff I work
• 42:23
  Speaker 5: from my perspective, like you're using it to understand how
• 42:27
  Speaker 5: you like you can see in others, but to understand
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: how you are using it in yourself, and then you
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: can rectify it, like change the experience here, because indeed,
• 42:38
  Speaker 5: like any like even any, the tree can become super complex,
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: right if you get into for example, spheres inside of
• 42:45
  Speaker 5: like trees inside of the spheres and like moving and
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: so on, because we tend to study it like fixed right,
• 42:52
  Speaker 5: like the tree always in the same way, but maybe
• 42:54
  Speaker 5: the aspect is going to be slightly different with time
• 42:57
  Speaker 5: and so and so on, so it starts to get
• 43:00
  Speaker 5: really crazy. But yeah, i'ld say that the main idea
• 43:04
  Speaker 5: of like condensing.
• 43:05
  Speaker 6: Things but also destroying them.
• 43:08
  Speaker 5: Again, if you relate Shiva to it to be not
• 43:12
  Speaker 5: it's gonna be your your best friend, you know, to
• 43:14
  Speaker 5: killing all the illusions, all the illusions that you created
• 43:16
  Speaker 5: about yourself, like the character you are right now, Like
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: Matt MAT's a character, right, I'm not this, I am
• 43:22
  Speaker 5: experiencing this character right now, and it has a lot
• 43:25
  Speaker 5: of illusions, like let's say, from when I was born
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: people would say something and then I would aggregate that
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: to me again. But now I can use that same
• 43:32
  Speaker 5: energy the aggregator to you know, clear it and say no,
• 43:36
  Speaker 5: wait a second, I don't want that anymore. That's like,
• 43:39
  Speaker 5: let's not be fixed. I can change that. I can
• 43:41
  Speaker 5: evolve with like your taste and so and so. Also
• 43:45
  Speaker 5: Nick beautifully said, like the colors that you're wearing tell
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: a lot about where your consciousness is. And it is
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: funny that a lot of people tend to wear black
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: or all black or like prefer like it's a color
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: that you see everywhere, right, even though it's if you
• 43:58
  Speaker 5: stop to think about it's not like an natural color, right,
• 44:01
  Speaker 5: it's not like you see black like in everyday things.
• 44:05
  Speaker 5: You're not like in nature or whatever, but in people
• 44:09
  Speaker 5: with things like in things we buy, there is a
• 44:12
  Speaker 5: lot of black, like in cars, like clothing, cell phones, again,
• 44:17
  Speaker 5: the little black mirror. So it's every really, if you
• 44:20
  Speaker 5: start to think about it.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: There's a great comment from Nature's Path to Wholeness that
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: I think Matt is well equipped to a handle. When
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: you say the Kleipa of Bana, are you speaking of
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: the that is the partner of Bana I'll just say
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: for me, I'm not I'm speaking of it in a
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: more traditional, maybe even a more Lurianic way, where they
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: are ideas in the suffer of themselves. I only believe
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: in the one tree. I don't believe in the many trees,
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: like the tree is infinite and it's like that will
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Get explains this quite well. But for me, I think
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: that you experienced all the klipas are ready. I don't
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: think that it serves a It doesn't serve any beginner,
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: especially beginner, to study the kleepers in any way. You're
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: gonna just gonna be aggregated. And you see this all
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: the left hand path guys, they're all emo, They're all like,
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: I'm depressed. There's I read a book. I know it's
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: like funny, but I read a Fraternitous saturn eyebook and
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: he was like, depression is the left hand path. And
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: I'm like, no, that's a you problem. That's not a
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: left hand path problem. That's a you problem. So I
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: think that's exactly what the kleepas are for too, to
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: capture your consciousness in low ideas. So, like Matt saying,
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Banna is a supernal triad. So try and break those
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: klipas of those lower conceptions of you have of both
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: the world and yourself. That's what I think too. Sorry,
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: I didn't mean to do a sermon there, but I
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: just want to say it's yeah, it's kleep as are
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: It's really the the It's like the aggregates that we
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: that we name, the vessels that we name, and whether
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: we whether those vessels have the truth in them or not,
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: I think is up to us to discern. But we
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: also have to make sure that we're not worshiping husks
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: or vessels.
• 46:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 46:14
  Speaker 5: Well, one way you can say it, it's like when
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: you have an oyster. You have the like the oyster
• 46:19
  Speaker 5: and the meat inside of it, right, and after you eat,
• 46:22
  Speaker 5: like you remove the meat, you have just the husk,
• 46:25
  Speaker 5: really just the thing left there without any life anymore.
• 46:28
  Speaker 5: There's maybe some speckles of whatever was left there, but
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: it's really not the thing that they wanted anymore. And
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: when I talk about like the klif us or husks,
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: that's what I'm talking about. Like the light king, it
• 46:40
  Speaker 5: filled the sphere with light, but it didn't hold all
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: the light, so it broke and it shattered, and now
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: you have this kind of leftovers from the thing, but
• 46:51
  Speaker 5: it was it is part of the same thing like
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: Jin is saying. So again, it's really in new anytime
• 46:56
  Speaker 5: you are interacting with any of the and I would
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: say not only the spheres, but also the paths, right
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: if you want to get into let's say tarot and
• 47:03
  Speaker 5: correcting them to the paths. So in the same way,
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: whenever you have on r kunna, you're not only using
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: them in the light. So that's when all the you know,
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: light workers piece and some one like that's bullshit as well.
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: You're working with both, you know, like if you're on
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: every really middle pillar, you've got to work with both.
• 47:18
  Speaker 6: That's that's how it goes.
• 47:19
  Speaker 5: But you rectify the bat the quote unquote bat or shadow,
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: you integrate, and you use the light like you use
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: get both of them, all.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Of them exactly. I want to just sucking that what
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: Matt said. It's not about going to the extreme opposite
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: of the right hand pillar either. It's really at least
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: for how the Gray Lodge and just knee Jin personally
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: approaches Kabala. I'm a middle path person. I also practice
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: Buddhism obviously, so we're a middle path religion. So this
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: is like something that's very very very important to us.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: But I also see that it's metaphysically, metaphysically very potent.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Now it doesn't have the same necessarily the qualities, but
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: as we discussed in the Lost episode with Nick and Ice,
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: like there is everything and Oakma has all the potential.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: So you know, there's just because it doesn't seem maybe
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: as metaphysically potent to draw from other sufferer or to
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: balance yourself out or to rectify it. Actually is it
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: just it takes a little longer and it's a lot harder.
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: M Something I did want to add too. When I've
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: had my experience. You know, I've said that I've gone
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: kind of death. I don't hear anything. Well, of course
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: the abyss. So I have wondered if that has something
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: to do with the silence.
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: What else did I want to say?
• 48:45
  Speaker 5: You could say that silence was like, for example, one
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: way to interpret it would be even in the eyeindsoft,
• 48:52
  Speaker 5: like you're getting into you're getting already outside.
• 48:54
  Speaker 6: Of the tree and to the to the endless right, and.
• 48:57
  Speaker 5: Some i'ld say mostly left hand path workers would say
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: that's the end right, like you end there in the
• 49:03
  Speaker 5: whenever you die, you go to the void and whatever,
• 49:05
  Speaker 5: you don't have anything anymore. Sure you can in there,
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: but there's still the ein right, you don't need to
• 49:10
  Speaker 5: to get that far. But indeed, like if you if
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: you remove all the illusions, that's the question, if you
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: remove everything that are that is an illusion, what's left?
• 49:19
  Speaker 5: Like who's the real you? You know, if if your
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: character here like Matt nick Gin whatever was something built
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: from its environment, family, anything, and you start removing that,
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: you start tring to say, okay that that was just
• 49:32
  Speaker 5: like a mini ai mini character programmed. Then okay, what's left?
• 49:36
  Speaker 5: You know, what's the essence? Really the same with the
• 49:39
  Speaker 5: kliff As were built out of the tree. You know
• 49:41
  Speaker 5: when they start doing some associations and one.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Right, that's a klipa. That's a great point, Matt, is
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: that even us to give attributions to the suffra it.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: Like we said the last time, it should be always
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: be quality less. Like whether it's lapisla ua or turquoise,
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: it's still clear. So if we can get our consciousness
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: to recognize that at all times, then that's really the
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: potent sort of element of the tree.
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: Well, uh, was there anything else you wanted to say about.
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: You know, maybe we'll move on.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, I just wanted to throw this out there, that
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: there are some interesting Vedic astrological associations. There is an
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: amethyst is sometimes given as a remedy for Saturn or Shawnee,
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: also sapphire, blue sapphire. I always thought this was really interesting.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: I brought it also many years ago with you Nick
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: on our Tantra Ancobala series, but and you seemed really
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: interested in it. Is that blue sapphire is actually the
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: planetary It's considered the highest planetary stone of Saturn in
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: Vedic astrology, and so it's a little different. You can
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: see that they're much more oriented to that blue or
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: color rather than a pure pitch black. So I always
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: thought that was really interesting. And also like the what
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: we were talking about, especially what you talked about, Nick,
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: was that kind of constrictive and destructive mode that is
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: that path between Hope, Ma and Benna. It's a path
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: of fire and earth and air obviously arises through that interaction.
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: So it's it's it's very interesting.
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Uh, Matt, is there anything that you wanted
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: to add?
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: I think, uh, thank you both.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: You know again, I think an overall theme is a
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: you know, time, death and stuff like that. All right,
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: So yeah, now when I go into I'm going to
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: cover death, and like I had said, you know, I
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: really didn't get much into even really acknowledging that street
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: until after I had magical experience. The way I'll be,
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: you know, kind of giving these associations is that of
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: Gareth Knight's book, Practical Guide to Cabalistic Symbolism. His book
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: has the spheres and the pats in it, and it's
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: it was probably my favorite Kabbala book out of all the.
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: Ones I've read. So I just figured i'd pull his
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: you know stuff that he has for the associations.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: I guess, you know, the Hebrew meeting knowledge. Well, that's
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: kind of like, you know, I think, what's the names
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: for the sphere? It's you know, considered invisible or unnumbered.
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: He hasn't hear. The magical image would be Janus, the
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: divine name. I think he leaves it open, but some
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: people have used jah hevad Heyliam that kind of like,
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: I don't know, I think that's usually ready. There's no
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: archangel that he doesn't attribute anything to that. The colors
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: he attributes to it would be lavender, silver gray, pure
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: violet gray flecked with yellow. The virtue would be in
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: personal justice, the capacity to act without ego, eat with
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: the ego and bias, vices, doubt, apathy and nurture, cowardice, pride, vision,
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: vision across the abyss Mundane correspondence.
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: Knights favor Serious. So that's interesting. They he's using, I
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: guess serious as the fixed star.
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: Wonderf won. If Mario does that, that's interesting. Keith symbol
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: could be prism, an empty room, a condemned cell, sacred mountaintop,
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: grain of corn, and the Yeah, that's about it for
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: the associations that I have. I don't know if maybe
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: a gin. I know you do go on about Doth
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: a lot and I put you on the spot now,
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: But like I guess what would be your if you
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: want to take it away with your experience with Doth.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Like you said, Nick, I think you said it the best,
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: and you said it first, like I'm not going to
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: take that from you, but you said it. You only
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: became more interested in it after you add magical experiences.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: So this was really interesting to me When you first
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: said that. I can't remember exactly when, but that's exactly
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: my experience as well, it seemed like almost impossible to
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: get to place. Just reading about it intellectually, it didn't
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: seem and I think it's actually supposed to be like that.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: I think it's actually supposed to be a threshold. Obviously
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: that's part of the name of my show. So I
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: do think that Doth is a threshold, and I think
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: it is. You don't need to worry about it so much,
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: like I have a contour of what it is, but
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: be flexible, because I think a lot of magicians, like
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: I like Kenneth Grant, and I like mom Zone, and
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: it's very interesting to me all that, but I think
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: they get very fixed on what these kinds of places
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: or what these things are. And it's also about, like
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: we've talked about many times, it's about like the meta
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: myth of other magicians telling you, oh, when you're climbing
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: the tree, you're going to experience you're going to see machineows.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: Like to bring up Brogan, you tell people you're going
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: to see machineows, they're more inclined to see machineows. That's
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: just the reality you're suggestive, right, So Kenneth Grant really
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: places this idea of like a very fixed kind of
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: like you know, I often joke about this. I won't
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: use the specific language that I do, but a kind
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: of we'll say hermaphroditic, feminine ish kind of quibel goddess thing.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: And I don't necessarily agree with that. I'm not saying
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: that that's not through in some ways, but I think
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: that I wouldn't. I never used that container to describe it.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: And I think it's actually a very masculine sephra. That's
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: how Buddhist would understand it. It'd be a very masculine
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: sepher And there's actually a really interesting named Manjusri and
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: Manjutrie is the Bodhisappa of nondual nosis. So this is
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: also how Doth is sometimes translated ass So I just think, well,
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: isn't that interesting. Maybe the sort of idea of Doth
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: is nondual in its core, it's like beyond death and
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: it's beyond time, and it's also beyond the conceptualization of
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: our minds, and then what is left, well there's smoke.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: So I think that's a lot of sort of that experience,
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: and I think even the colors really spoke to that
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: when Nick went through them.
• 56:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that is very it's a very interesting sphere. Like
• 56:43
  Speaker 5: the way I understand it also from experiences is it's
• 56:50
  Speaker 5: basically after light, so you have again farmless thearity right
• 56:54
  Speaker 5: became light at Hofman Goth compressed and that's the compression,
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: the the contraction. Here it gets expanded again, so it's
• 57:04
  Speaker 5: like the portal again between the three at the top
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: and all the rest. So another way also you can
• 57:11
  Speaker 5: see it in that's the way I risk on Kabbala.
• 57:14
  Speaker 5: It is like connecting other cultures. You can see it
• 57:17
  Speaker 5: in the and the ying yang. Actually the way I
• 57:21
  Speaker 5: understand it, you can see like as the duality itself,
• 57:24
  Speaker 5: so the black part of the ying yang, which is
• 57:26
  Speaker 5: the ying in this case would be the bina kind
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: of going again in the this portal towards all the
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: other things. And the way they explain it also is
• 57:35
  Speaker 5: very interesting because they say from like the tall the
• 57:38
  Speaker 5: towel comes the ying yang or something like that. From
• 57:42
  Speaker 5: the towel comes to yang, the yang comes the ying
• 57:45
  Speaker 5: and so on, like it's just tryad and then from
• 57:47
  Speaker 5: it comes all the like ten thousand things. So again
• 57:51
  Speaker 5: from Benig it's everything is it's berthed and one. So
• 57:55
  Speaker 5: it's again and when people say, oh, it's the sphere
• 57:59
  Speaker 5: not sphere, the thing not thing that, and when you
• 58:02
  Speaker 5: interact with it you understand. Okay, at least from my perspective,
• 58:05
  Speaker 5: it's this kind of duality, this kind of in between worlds.
• 58:10
  Speaker 5: You could say also it's the hades or other correspondss
• 58:14
  Speaker 5: like Pluto osires like this under.
• 58:19
  Speaker 6: Underworld God.
• 58:20
  Speaker 5: So again it's the one and where is the underworld
• 58:22
  Speaker 5: again in the mind always right, it's the you can
• 58:25
  Speaker 5: say it's like the subconscious.
• 58:26
  Speaker 6: So it's it's.
• 58:29
  Speaker 5: Behind, it's it's guarding all the richness again, all the
• 58:32
  Speaker 5: things that you have, all the programmings that you have
• 58:34
  Speaker 5: in your mind. And to go there you need to,
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: you know, go through this quote unquote Porto. You need
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: to not be here, not so here anymore and there.
• 58:43
  Speaker 5: So it's kind of duality. I think that plays a lot.
• 58:46
  Speaker 5: So also there's the I think it's called Arich and
• 58:50
  Speaker 5: Arich and pin or something like that, like the short
• 58:52
  Speaker 5: face God, long faced God, uh, that they'll talk about
• 58:56
  Speaker 5: in like Hebrew Cabala. So again it's you start to
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: see how they portray it. It's very very very similar.
• 59:04
  Speaker 5: Also when you'll start experiencing the things.
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: Uh, you know one thing I do want to tow
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: us in. Uh gen, I.
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: See you brought up another image, so I'll jump over
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: to that after this, uh for me, and I guess
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: like why it clicked in my head to start paying
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: attention to it. And again it's sent to sound cheesy
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: or you know whatever it is, what it is, it's
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: my experience. How it seemed to happen is that after
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: I have these like magical experiences, you know, I think
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: I crossed the abyss. When I open up my eyes,
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: I will have like just this flutter of stuff go
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: like come into me. That like it's just like somehow
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: it's a knowing. It's not like a faith. It's hard
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: to explain. And I've always felt like maybe that's you know,
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: the knowledge that starts to come, you know, flutter into
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: your head after after your experience.
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: You know, I don't know how that is.
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it's like you know, I've I've
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: questioned like are you tapping into like you know, the
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: ole or like every everything everything exists, you know, so
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: you can just pick up ideas and maybe I don't know,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: want to open up my eyes some of it gets
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: converted into thought in this reality and it comes back
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: with me. But there is knowing of things that I
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: didn't know prior for me at least, So I just
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: want to throw that in there.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: I one hundred percent agree with that.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 6: Sorry, man, no, go on, just ready. Yeah, I feel
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 6: the same.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, that's what it. That's really what it is.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: It's where the lightning happens. I think that that's a
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: really interesting sort of way to call it or to
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: articulate it. And I think that it's also a place
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: of synthesis, like I think it's a it's it becomes
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: accessible to the magician after he crosses the threshold and
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: sort of figures out a regular, maybe not fixed way,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: but a kind of a hermoneutic to get back. So
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: I agree with you, it's an incredibly important for us.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: And I think this is why Romic was smart to
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: not actually place it on the tree and to say
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: is the fifth density rather than to say, oh, it's
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: this place that you go to, But maybe it's in
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: all the different kinds of wisdoms or all the different
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: kinds of splendors that you experience that are of God.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: Well that's his idea, right, So, and I think that's
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: actually more true. I think it's more like there's a
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: in Buddhism, we would say there's an emptiness behind the
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: nature of all things. And as Lisa and I have
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: often said together, it's emptiness is not nothingness, it's luminousness
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: and masslessness. So it's like a higher consciousness beyond than
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: like even our vessel or our husk is capable of
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: at regular times. But it's also accessible. And so a
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: lot of Buddhists will talk about like Rigpa, this diamond
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: thunder mind, this kind of like clear expanse in space,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: like a brother soular from our lodge. He'll talk about
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: how the death and red power are very similar, are
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: the same, and I agree, so agree. So there's this
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: icon that Nick brought up, thinking Nika is really it's
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: a beautiful icon a. It's a deity called Havazra, so
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: that even his name can actually be described as the
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: diamond thunder breath. And his wife's name is actually ne Raima,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: which means she who is without fixed self. Now this
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: is a different contract deity that Nick brought up, also
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: a phenomenal tanka ga jud jin. But so this is Yamataka,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: the slayer of death, and actually if you look under
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: his feet, he is standing on both Shiva, but we
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: wouldn't call him Shiva. We'd call him by Rava. So
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: the ferocious god of time and his wife and his wife,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: so the guy with the bullface very Moloch, but his
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: wife is actually named Vadra, the Tully, the diamond thunder vampire.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: He has to raise her back into life. That's why
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: I often say that this is where the lightning happens,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: because you have to conquer your fears. So, yes, there
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: is an interaction with Benna. There's an interaction with Saturn,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: but you're moving away from that. You're very plutonic. Now,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know if Matt agrees with us, and Matt
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: you can chime it in now, of course. But I
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: like Pluto for Dove. I think it makes sense. But
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: I also agree, and we've talked about this many times,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: is that though the dot Heather and Hope mok shift
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: and can be understood in different ways depending on different
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: kalpas or AONs. So it's good, it's very good to
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: not have a fixed position. But I do like Pluto
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: because this is kind of more of the Buddhist idea. Yeah,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: I just want to throw that in there.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 5: Again, we were talking about right not being fixed on
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 5: the ideas, and the way I like to explain it is,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 5: whenever you relate something to a sphere, it's not about
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 5: that thing being the sphere or the sphere being the thing,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 5: but rather that's a good example, like generally of that sphere.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 5: So let's say, let's use a mounding thing. If I'm
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 5: talking about footballers, I'm not gonna talk about like a
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 5: guy like Gordon Ramsay or whatever, I like a cook.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna talk about Cristiana Ronaldo, Pele or whatever, someone
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 5: that is good as a footballer, which doesn't mean that
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 5: the footballer isn't also something else, like he's a father,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 5: he's like the man, he's this, that that, that's one.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 5: So in the same way, I completely agree, not only
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 5: I would say, not only even the three like the
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 5: top ones, uh cater Hoffmand, you know, but any of them.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 5: So you could say even that. Again, whatever we relate
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 5: things to Mars or story to get are not always there.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 6: Like the tree.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 5: I can share the screen in a bit, but like
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 5: the tree, to my understanding, is always moving. And even
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 5: that plays into that a bit, which, by the way,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 5: just remember there's this Egyptian concept of do what which
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 5: Again you start to understand it's their underworld. It's like, oh, okay,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 5: so who came with the concept first, you know, but
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 5: it's whatever, it's funny, uh. And you have this idea
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 5: of every four AONs, okay, every four ages if we're
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 5: talking about astrology in general, like this a lot is
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 5: you build, you build another sphere. So again the tree
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 5: when it was like I don't know, eight thousand years
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 5: ago something like that, we had the ogdoad. So again
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 5: the Egyptian they'd had the eight spheres three and then
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 5: we had like the nine spheres three and now we
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 5: have like a ten spheres three with a eleventh sphere
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 5: not sphere. So so my understanding cosmologically, the tree keeps evolving,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 5: and that as from my perspective, and also the way
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 5: I was initiated, and I see it makes sense.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 6: Is the next.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 5: Sphere being built, so again every four cycles, so you
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 5: have fire age like we had. The last one was
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 5: aries then fire sorry no earth, fire, water and air,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 5: so you have earth. The last one was Tarus, so fire, aries, water, spi,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 5: seas are now air Aquarius would be the end of
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 5: the construction of the thing, and then you might see, okay,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 5: wait a second, is it now getting so popular like
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 5: VR and like getting into the digital ground, like crypto
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 5: and like everything digital. Again, this separate world that we
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 5: are creating, it's like the end simulation. Let's say that
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 5: we are entering and again another shire, like you keep
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 5: entering and some one very speculative. But it's the way
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 5: that I understand that as again, this thing that it's
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 5: here but not here, like Wi Fi, you know, like
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 5: you can interact with it, but you cannot really do anything.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 5: More like you can interact with it through some means,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 5: but it's not really here, like you cannot point to it.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 6: You cannot. You know, it's very.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 5: Abstract, it's very not here and so on, but it
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 5: is here at the same time. So also I saw
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 5: someone mentioning Tarot, and the way I used Tarrot with
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 5: the kabala is I placed all the royal ship cards
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 5: or royalty cards sorry in the in the off so
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 5: any of like the king, Queen, the page and knights.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 5: So that's how I use them, and it seems to
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 5: be very interesting because then you understand them. It's kind
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 5: of like the personalities in the reading. So if you're
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 5: doing some type of reading and then you know King
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 5: of Ones comes or whatever, they understand. Okay, it's the
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 5: personality of like the active thing, that the active, active
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 5: masculine thing, the.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 6: Starter with the fire.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 5: So again in h Absolute, I think the firework right.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 5: So again you can start to play on all those ideas.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: That's great, Matt, I totally agree. I just want to
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: point out, like even what you said about the absolute world,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: you can see at the if you're looking at the screen,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: it's on your the viewers, the witnesses right hand side,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: you see Street w Pauld and Lama Aka Mahakali. So
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: we talked about Collie for Bana, but you can see
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: her at the bottom there, and she's surrounded by smoke
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: not fire, meaning and she's riding the donkey the ass
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: at the end of the world, if you want to
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: call it that. But it's interesting because that I've always
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: thought that that fits very well with the Hebrew path
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: between Binnah and Hokema, because the world is already destroyed
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: as she rides between as she rides between time and
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: the idea, between understanding and wisdom. I really think that
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: it's destroyed. But then she also brings it back into formation.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: She's also destroying as she goes, So you're kind of
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: losing that fire world and you're gaining like exactly what
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: Matt said, you're gaining a ground because it's a burning ground.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: It's not totally there's still fire, there's still air, there's
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: still earth, and what we were missing really is always water.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: At least in my opinion, I think that that is
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: more true than not true. Is like we are not
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: drawing maybe the proper portion from the right pillar as
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: much as we can be that hasthetic kind of ideas
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: of loving Kindnessey. I know Matt knows that I'm very
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: fixated on this, but I think it's a really important note,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: especially if you're looking at Fortis iconography, that we do
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: really place high emphasis on body cheetah. Whether that's exactly
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: the same as loving kindness, I think it is, but
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: maybe brother Soul would disagree.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 5: Another way I like to see it as well, is
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 5: like when you are going up the tree, which I
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 5: don't recommend you for a beginning like going up the tree,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 5: I mean going with the kliffas, like breaking the klifas
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 5: and swamp, and then you reach that then you start
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 5: coming down the tree with the liking path and creating things,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 5: and then it becomes like this circle. Right, you start again,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 5: you directify yourself, create something, and then erect for yourself
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 5: create something, and then it goes.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 6: On on and on infantly.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 5: So he plays this role of like being a portal.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 4: Oh for me, this is killer. Yeah, the my man.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: Sorry, yeah, I always love what he comes off.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 4: Something. I just want to ask. It's used to like.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: Little small things that I'm getting out of, Uh that
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: I kind of got out of what Gareth Knight had
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: said in here, you know, the thing with Janice, you know,
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: And I always kind of like associated that with a
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: really chokema because I do think it's like, well, you
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: come and face to face with God.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: But I do think like you kind of alsothing can
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 4: choose to go the other way. It's you know, almost
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 4: like another hinge again in itself. Uh. But I could
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 4: see that, you know, he.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: Attributed to Doth and I could see that too, because
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: I guess at that point you would have experience of
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 3: both sides. Like I guess, like if you if you guess,
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: if you took on the Janice archetype, you've already been
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: there in the back, or you were on your way
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: practically there. So I did feel that was kind of interesting.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: And then something with his vices that hit me as
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: I was reading it this time this time, you know,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: he said doubt, apathy, inurtire, cowardice, or pride. I always
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: said for myself, whenever I have the magical experience, as
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: soon as I start kind of like thinking, it's it ends,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: but like I'm realizing, most of my thoughts were always
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: like where am I?
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: And what am I?
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: And that was that doubt because I don't know, you know,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: or one other time I was like, this doesn't look
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: like it might be a good experience.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: Maybe I should not do this. Z that cowardice.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: I don't know, but it just hit me when I was,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: you know, reading that, because like that that kind of
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: is my experience that would take me out of the abyss.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: Discursive thinking, no, exactly what you said, Nick, discursive thinking
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: is someone I saw how a tweet about this about
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: discursive thinking as like the truth skits is like this,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: that's what makes reality is the schizophrenia. And I agree
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: with that is like when we expand into thought and
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: also like these outward klypothic consciousness that's not necessarily good
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: or bad, but just like names that we put on vessels,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: so when we expand into that, we sort of break
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: out of that like a place where we're able to
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: access knowledge. I totally agree with that. So, yeah, I
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: think that's really interesting because this is what this deity
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: even represents. Like you can see there's Yama in the
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: bottom left hand corner, he's the god of death. Then
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: you have Mahakala, so you have the time king at
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: the bottom center, and then you have Malancoli there, so
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: he's higher than them. He's conquered them. He's conquered time,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: conquered death, his wife has resurrected, So it's you know,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: all the symbolism is really there, and like the generous thing, like, yeah,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: he has heads pervading all realities. In Buddhism, there's ten directions,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: so not all the deities have ten heads, but he
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: does in particular because it is kind of a liberatory.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: It's a very liberatory sephra, And so I think Kenneth
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: Grant's like sort of inclination that it is very power
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: or full and sort of able to take you out
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: of the cube, Yes, because you're able to sort of
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: go outside the cube and then see what it is
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: maybe but with a like stronger understanding that it's also
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: conceptual and also in your mind. So it's like you
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: kind of create it. You kind of like Vanessa saying
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: the best, it's exactly that. It's like you see the
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: common ground, but the como ground is really your mind,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: so you can decide how you interact and well also
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: what arises there.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I like with Justin saying that too.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, Jen, now that that is what I believe the
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 3: Book of Revelation does with John's vision too.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 4: Mm hmm. But uh man, do you have anything else
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 4: you want to maybe add with doth.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 5: I think it's a sy misunderstoodent usually also, that's something
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 5: to point out if you're like just I componly agree
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 5: with you.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 6: Guys.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 5: Don't go just by the books, you know, like the
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 5: book should be the the tech should be the foundation,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 5: like the or better. Yet you should have a master
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 5: to like help you initiate. It's like the If you
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 5: think about it, it's mathematical. If you have someone which
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 5: comes from a lineage of people which were initiated in
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 5: so and so on. And that's for real, you're just
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 5: getting sped up. You know, you're you're not getting through
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 5: the experiences, just yourself and trying to figure out what
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 5: is and what isn't in swamp. So I'll say, especially
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 5: with that, it's very important that you try and have
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 5: the experiences through. You know, whatever it means is makes
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 5: more sense to you. I'd say personally again comes with environment.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 5: So in Brazil it is legal is it can be
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 5: easy to find like ritualistic aauaska and mushrooms usage. And
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 5: to me, those were one of the experiences that helped
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 5: me break a lot of khleifas just because it put
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 5: me in this again here not here state. You know,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 5: I was because when you are using an intellogy like ayauaska,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 5: you're and I'm not advocating for it, don't use it
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 5: if you don't know what it is. Don't you know,
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 5: try it out. It's not a game. But the thing
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 5: is you are still conscious, but you're still accessing this
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 5: other place. You know, you're fully conscious of the thing
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 5: and you can you know, interact with all these different
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 5: ideas in your head and swam. So then it made
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 5: me were as well, Okay, maybe there's.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 6: More to life than just material things.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 5: You know, maybe I can start, yeah, having a look
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 5: at those things, you know more seriously, because I had
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 5: some experiences refer but still was super skeptical I'll say
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 5: getting into the top and again you would have to
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 5: go through that to go into the top three series.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 6: Right, So it is very important that you know what
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 6: you're doing.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 5: In a way that you also don't get down into
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 5: the clotic three right, because it is the portal.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 6: So yeah, it's it's a very interesting sphere.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 5: And to me again, the way I use tarot is
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 5: in a meditation way. It's like in a it helps
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 5: my it helps guide my consciousness.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 6: So if you.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 5: Understand reality as this frame by frame thing, so it's
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 5: like a movie, right, a movie. A video doesn't happen
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 5: like in the best. The video is like a lot
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 5: of images, like what you're seeing right now. It's a
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 5: lot of images put in on top of each other.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 5: So when you understand that, you can understand the terror
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 5: as the images that are going to pop up. So
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 5: if right now you need let's say the Emperor, Okay,
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 5: you bring up the Emperor, all the archetype, all everything
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 5: that comes with it. Even if you want to relate
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 5: it to Kababa, the path and so on, and you
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 5: use it so in that way, when I'm relating the
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 5: like I said that to all the royalty cards, then
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 5: you can use them in a very interesting way because
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 5: they are going to be like you're unconscious. So it's
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 5: the deepest of the programming. It's like the program that
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 5: you're not even aware it's running in the background.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 5: The subconscious is the programs that are running in the
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 5: background conscious, all the programs that you're running right now.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 5: The unconscious like all the deep, deep, deep programs like
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 5: coming from if you want to go that way, past
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 5: lives whatever it is, right, but all the deep stuff.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 5: So for you to go there, you need the correct keys,
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 5: the correct archetypes, and it's going to be very interesting
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 5: the more you start to play around, you know, if
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 5: you want to use specific myths for that, like for example,
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 5: the territory like using is the mythic one with the
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 5: Greek stories, and you can look at the royalty cards
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 5: and the story they're portraying there and play around with them,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 5: you know, change the stories, see how they would relate
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 5: to your life. It's a very interesting practice.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 6: To do.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: Something you said, Matt was super interesting to me was
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: that death is a place that you it's sort of
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: the place you see when you're going up. And I agree,
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: I totally agree with that. It is kind of like
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: it sort of reveals itself to you the higher you
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: go on the tree, I think. And so maybe that
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: is also to go back to. Next said is maybe
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: that's why it's also not as interesting for people to
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: approach just intellectually, just through that path of study, simply
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: because it doesn't immediately reveal itself. It's very in and out.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: It's very hidden. So but not because of its nature
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: being esoteric, even just because of its empty nature.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 4: You could say, somebody did that.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 5: There was a nice comment here I wanted to address
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 5: if it's possible for so someone commented, is it be fine?
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 5: What the car and bah and allah going on here?
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 5: So indeed, very interesting question, like what even the name means?
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 5: Right about to go to Jewish mysticism, they'll say, you know,
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 5: it's like was it revelation or whatever. It's like they're
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 5: they're going to give you some idea, right, Okay, that's good,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 5: you can go with that, but it can break it
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 5: down like this person beautifully did you can break it
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 5: down the car.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 6: And the lah was up.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 4: Just real quick.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 3: The funny thing is is a person who commented that
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 3: may not have even have like meant that literal.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 4: This guy says crazy shit all the time and normally talk.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's good, it's good.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 4: So you might actually be answering your question. He really
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 4: didn't actually mean, but go ahead.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 5: It is interesting thought to do, like breaking down the words. Right,
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 5: So if you break down kabala in that way, ka
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 5: and law in this case, he went, but I'm going
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 5: to stop at the law, which is the word that
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 5: is actually there, you can see how it was being
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 5: used already in Egypt. Again you have the ka, which
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 5: is they had the sole partitioned in nine parts. So
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 5: the co was one of the parts, the Ba was
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 5: another part. The cow would be like the physical body, okay,
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 5: the bab would be the digital body, the astrobody. And
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 5: then you can say the law is the elevation again
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 5: the all alchemy or the L. You know the L
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 5: the way you have the in the Jewish textans one,
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 5: you have this elevation. So again it's the ele of
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 5: both the bodies. So in this way you can see
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 5: kabala as the technology of the body of the soul.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 5: So that's a very cabalistic thing to do, like breaking
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 5: down words, you know, getting your name for example, breaking
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 5: it down, changing stuff around. That's a very interesting thing
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 5: to do. I wouldn't relate it necessarily with one of
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 5: the spears we were talking about here, but it would
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 5: be I guess it's a very hard thing to do.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 5: Maybe maybe that because you're seeing what's not there, So
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 5: in a way it's a very it's a very bad practice,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 5: like you're going to not only what's being shown to you,
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 5: like the name, the pure name, but what's hidden there,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 5: Like again, what's what you're not seeing from the shadow
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 5: of its name. So that's a even if it was
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 5: a comedy comment, it was a very interesting practice.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 3: Well, I even know like people that especially back at
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: the day, and I've even you know, people that were
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 3: associated with the Oto back in the day, they were
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 3: into kabbala. Also you'd see times they were influenced by
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 3: kind of Islamic stuff, and I always do wonder if
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 3: they're you know, I don't know, I wonder about a
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 3: lot of older alchemists or a lot of older alchemy
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 3: actually kind of sprung up over in those areas to
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 3: begin with, or at least I think in paper, you know,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 3: written written documents stuff, So I do you don't wonder about,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 3: you know, the whole like if that stuff even does
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 3: kind of fit into Kabbala.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 4: People don't even realize.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 6: Yeah, go mungeon.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: Sorry no, sorry, I apologize, Matt, Please please answer. Yeah.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 5: I was just gonna say, personally, I see as everyone
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 5: has their own part in the tree. So it's not like,
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 5: you know, the the Jays are gonna say no, it's
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 5: our thing. It's our things like k bros can be
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 5: part your thing. But there's definitely other people talking about
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 5: it as well in other ways, Like I was saying
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 5: that the Ying Yang and one so sure, like the
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 5: Sufi stuff. Also, there's a lot of stuff there, Like
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 5: everyone was kind of talking about it. There's no way
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 5: not to talk about it. If you understand it is
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 5: the thing creating the simulator itself again, the technology of
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 5: our own beings. There's no such way as not talking
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 5: about it. You're always talking about you can I unsee.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: So what you said, Matt was so interesting about the
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: sort of code dath connection. You could say, so the
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: image that I the last one, I'm sorry, Nick, the
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: one I just added. He is the image of what
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: we would say, quote unquote hod, so that kind of
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: like it's knowledge, but it's not quite in fullness because
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: he's peaceful. But he actually is the also that one
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: that has the ox's face or the bison's head. They're
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: the same deity. He's just depicted in one way or
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: the other because he's nondual. Can be peaceful, it can
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: be wrathful. So and it is interesting his colors because
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: his colors can also be said to be very hoodlike. So,
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: you know, I just I just think it's it's interesting
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: that that you make that connection, because I have too.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: And sometimes it's hard to even discern what the difference
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: between like cold like thinking and like crew knowledge death
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: thinking is because we're dualistic beings and we tend to
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: be discursive and tend to think of things in that
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: schizophrenic kind of world, and especially because we do all
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: you social media now, and that makes us even you know,
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: it fractalizes us even more.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 7: So.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: I think death is an interesting suffra going forward in
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: the future because I think we have we're reforging it,
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: or at least, you know, these technocratic forces are reforging
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: it in a way, so we'll have to see how
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: what we'll see be able us to see what happens
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: in the future. But I also like that you said,
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: Matt about the aonic idea, and I think, like Nick
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: and I have talked about this many times before, like, yeah,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: there is an ionic idea, and it is shifting into
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: that kind of fourth world air quality age of if
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: you want to call it Age of Aquarius, I use
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: a different framing, but you know, it's a it's interesting
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: to think about Cabala in that context, like that we're
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: doing this even right now, like in this exact moment,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: like people are listening to us. The three of us
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: have a conversation about things that are quote unquote oh
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: called evil, like you know, the Jays did it to
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: mind control humanity, like all of those things. It's like
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: we're it's like breaking the klipa almost even if people
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: think it's bullshit, it's okay. But I just think it's
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: really interesting.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 5: Indeed, and may I ask Jan, what's the color of
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 5: your shirt right now? Is it by any gent it's black?
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 5: It's black, of course if it was if it was white,
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 5: it would be interesting because it would be the three
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 5: the three things, you know, the black, the white, and
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 5: the strips wearing white.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: I'm wearing white shorts, so they're kind of yeah, they're
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: they're you know, Heather Gray.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 4: That nice. All right.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 3: Again, I really don't have much to say on this
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 3: sphere unfortunately. I mean, I don't know if you guys
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 3: have any more. We could just wrap it up there
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 3: and actually keep it at a normal episode.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 4: Length, it's up to you.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: I'll add one more thing really quick. So the ca
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: ah law I thought was really interesting from like a
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: tonric aonic perspective, because you could say like kaw as
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: in Collie or Colla as in time. You could say
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: ba as in Birava, or the ferocious nature of things
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: as they appear. And you could also say law as
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: in Laalita, as in love is the cause of knowledge.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: So some really interesting I think correlations. Maybe maybe just
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: interesting parallels syncretisms. Who knows. You have to discern for yourself.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, very interesting. I'd say maybe about that. There's
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 5: nothing exactly here more that I wanted to bring that least,
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 5: nothing comes to mind. There was a nice comment here
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 5: about William saying like magic quote unquote being bringing imagination
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 5: into reality. Yeah, the way the way I understand the soul.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 5: So again when we talk, so I understand it as
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 5: imagination itself. So like my example of reality being this
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 5: frame by frame thing. So the soul is the one
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 5: pulling the frame. It's like saying, Okay, what do I
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 5: imagine right now? I'll imagine myself being rich whatever, Okay, boom,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 5: that's what happens. I imagine myself being sick. Okay, that's what's.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 6: Going to happen.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 5: And it feels like more and more with the years,
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 5: things are going on faster. So the more like I
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 5: don't know if it's personally because I know I'm doing
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 5: all this practices or whatever, but I see also with
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 5: other people close to me that don't necessary practice this
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 5: kind of stuff.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 6: And that's what's happening.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 5: The more the clearer the imagination again shouldn't be a klefa,
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 5: I should be pure with light. The clearer it is,
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 5: the faster it comes, and the better it comes because
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 5: it is really down like to me, my understanding kabala,
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 5: it's like the understanding of your soul, the understanding of
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 5: how can you interact with the simulator which is like
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 5: your own body. Your own body is the thing you're
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 5: simulating through it. You are simulating everything, you are experiencing life.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 5: So the American that's say how it works, you know
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 5: the better. And I talked about this in Jin's episode
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 5: as well. But I always try to bring it on
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 5: because you know, maybe you may be feared, You may
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 5: have fear even though of the code or whatever, or
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 5: you may feel like, oh, it's too much to study
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 5: whatever it is, right, but if you at least try
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 5: to do something, whatever it is, but do it well,
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 5: you're gonna be touching Kabbala or you know, higher spheres
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 5: and one just you know, try your best to do
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 5: one thing and that's it. You don't need to if
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 5: you don't want to study, you know all the crazy
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 5: occult things, go to you know, strange places and so
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 5: on to meet some strange people. It doesn't matter. Just
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 5: go and do one thing the best you can because
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 5: you're gonna reach those levels. It doesn't matter. You know,
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 5: eventually you're gonna figure out. You're gonna have to work. Also,
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 5: this quote unquote or quote that you have to ask
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 5: It is a quote to whom really like, maybe to you,
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 5: but to people studying. It's not a code at all.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 5: It's very clear. Actually that's a practice to make it clear.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 5: But if you take anything to study in what I mean,
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 5: anything literally, anything like it could be you know, playing
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 5: a sport, you know, cooking whatever it is, working on something.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 5: But when you do it intentionally and in the present moment,
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 5: you are there, you are you know, understanding how reality works.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 6: That's the main practice I'll say.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, don't be intimidated by wisdom science. Embrace wisdom
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: science because it's really important and it will deal call
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: things right before your eyes. And also you're not going
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: to understand it right away. That's okay, that's totally normal,
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: but you should try because like Matt said, balls and everything,
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: like Nick said, so you can't really see it's both
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: it works both ways. It's in everything, and you can
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: understand at least, so what we can sort of perceive
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: on this level of consciousness, you can you can relate
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: them all to the tree. And so it's a really
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: useful tool. It's a really useful tool for many things,
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: not just magic, but maybe magic's also in your mind.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: So maybe just even the act of thinking is in
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: a way magical.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, if you want to make money, you know,
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 5: everyone uses kabalae. If you want to be famous, everyone
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 5: uses kabata, and if you want to be healthy, it's
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 5: whatever money you got to use it. Even if you
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 5: don't understand what you're doing. You know, it's the same buttons.
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 5: So either you use them without understanding, or you understand
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 5: them and then you use it easier easily, you know,
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 5: so you cannot and see it after you start seeing it.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 5: And if your system maybe doesn't relate everything in a way,
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 5: also that shows maybe that you should adapt your system
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 5: or you should enhance it. I would say that's one
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 5: thing as well. Again, don't be fixed. You know, we
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 5: we've been talking about this in this podcast a lot.
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 6: Don't be fixing the ideas. Try it out.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 5: Even if you don't necessarily agree fatures, why don't you agree?
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 5: See do you really not agree? Or is it like
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 5: a paradigm from before and break all those glipphas.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: It's a logic proof, Starry Nick, Oh, go go. It's
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: a like proof because that's how you have to think
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: of kabala. It's a logic proof. And like Matt said,
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: like one of the most important things actually is that
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: you should be able to test your logic, your kabbala
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: stary logic against how to work with the tree and
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: how other people understand it. So I think that's a
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: really useful maybe the most useful too. I wish someone
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: who I wish when I was twenty two. I know,
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: mass twenty three. I'm going to use the magic number,
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: but I wish when I was twenty two someone had
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: told me that.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, like, well, William's even saying and you cannot
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 3: speak without prophesizing.
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 4: I think a lot of that's what politicians are doing.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 4: What they want. They just say shit to get us
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 4: to do it or whatever. They use us.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 6: Yeah, most definitely.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 3: That's how Like they someone said, take like, you know,
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 3: imagination or whatever in your thoughts and put it into
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 3: you know, turn it into form. I think that's exactly
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 3: what politicians use us to do. You know, their imagination
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 3: comes out verbally, and then we react certain ways to
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 3: give them the opportunity to do what they want or
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 3: create what they want. I guess I think, unless you
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 3: guys are good, I think we can wrap it up here.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 3: It's an hour and a half perfect. We purposely picked
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 3: eight to eight today because of the number.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 3: I don't know when the next one will be and what.
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 3: Plus I have to make sure it works the mat
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 3: as well. But I'm assuming with the next few weeks
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 3: or some shit, we'll be able to do the next
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 3: two spheres. Maybe we'll keep it like that, just do
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 3: two spheres at a time, or we'll see what we
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 3: see what happens. Thank you again, Matt, I really appreciate it.
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 3: Before I wrap it up, do you want to mention
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 3: tonight we are going live again with the Awakened podcast.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 4: Come check that out.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 3: There will be a bunch of the rejects with us
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 3: tonight and then tomorrow got a real packed day for lives.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 3: Be interesting to see who still shows up on the
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 3: last one in the morning. Fingers crossed. I've gotten the
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 3: OK from this guy. I've already sent him the link.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 3: He knows I made it live and everything. Ashton Forbes
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 3: supposed to be coming on the Occult Reject tomorrow eleven
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 3: o'clock in the morning. We got that going on, and
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 3: then we do have Thomas Sheridan, another another.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 4: Bang of a guest. We had him on one other time.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 3: Wilson, He's coming on and talk about druid mounds and
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 3: then at night the occult rejects themselves will be covering
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 3: hands symbolism, So definitely check that out. Uh but yeah,
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 3: keep out Q and eye out for that live tomorrow morning.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 3: Should be impressive if he shows up, if things crossed,
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 3: but uh yeah, Jin, please let everybody know where they
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 3: can find all your amazing stuff and what you're doing tonight.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: Please thank you so much, Nick, I really appreciate it. Obviously,
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: doing tak Kabala is perennial discussion. I can have it
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: every day. And thank you obviously to brother Matt. And
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: you know, Matt is incredible sort of. I don't want to.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: I don't want to categorize him or label him, but
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: he he's a incredible magician in his own way and
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: in his own right. So everybody should follow Matt. But
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: if you're interested in following me and hearing it Matt
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: and I in dialogue, you can do that at at
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: Wikongrie Born to w uk O and g Reborn or
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: at Threshold Saints, which is both the show account on
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: ex Twitter and also IG. Matt's episode has dropped, Ashley's
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: was just earlier this week. Thing change repeat and Toby
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: Chupples dropping tomorrow the ninth, and then tonight, Yes we
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: have Friday Night Gnostic Mass. I can't remember what I
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: titled to eat Drink Nectar Meat. I think as a
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: little play for un wrath full Offerings. Takes a light.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was gonna say that almost kind of makes
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 4: me think of it's a light.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's there's definitely an inter relationship. I
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: mean that's what that's what I mean, that's what nectar
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: is like, I mean, it's it's it's that stuff. So
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: I mean there's a relationship. So yeah, it's just a
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: wordplay on the Angley film. But I think it'll be fun.
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be a free range. We're we're gonna continue etherpunk,
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: but we're I wasn't quite ready with all the scheduling
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: and all the bookings I have, so we're just gonna
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 2: We're gonna hear Solar, Matt, Monty, Joseph, Mike and the
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: Branch and they're just gonna go hard and I'm gonna
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: moderate it the best I can, like I always do.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: And thank you guys so much, really really appreciate it.
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: Thank you to the chat. I couldn't even keep up
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: because I was trying to think of things and like
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: listen and it was a lot going on. But thank
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: you guys so much. Really appreciate it, Matt, and really
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: appreciate Nick.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, of course, thank you. I always appreciate
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 3: when you can make it on.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 4: With this man. And like I said, I could talk
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 4: abala with you all day.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 3: So I mean then there's going to be you know
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 3: how many more spheres we're gonna be talking about, so
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 3: it should definitely be interesting and fun. Matt, please let
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 3: everybody know well, first off, again, thank you so much
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 3: for coming on.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 4: Man.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 3: You're definitely gonna bring really awesome part to this series.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 3: I appreciate you doing this. Can you please let everybody
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 3: know where they can find all your stuff, and when
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 3: you're done, please send me a links that I can
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 3: share and put in the show notes.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 4: I forgot to add.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 6: Them, yes, for sure.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 5: So first of all, thank you obviously for calling up,
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 5: and thanks Gin for the bridge. So it's a good
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 5: time to talk about those things which I love the most,
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 5: so i'd say right now, and yeah, I mean it
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 5: was a great episode. I'm I'm glad you can do
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 5: this more. I'm at Mora. You can find me on
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 5: x Instagram, YouTube always at Matt Mora nineteen. I just
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 5: sent a comment in the YouTube chat. You can always
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 5: also go to my website. It's kabala dot com. That's
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 5: kaa b a h l a h dot com.
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 6: Sorry, key, k A A b A l a h
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 6: dot com.
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 5: Very simple. I send it in the chat as well.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 5: It's a lot of like small apps in there, things
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 5: and that you can do. Most importantly, you know again,
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 5: if you like this kind of content, make sure to
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 5: follow us, see us, listeners to us. But also to
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 5: do your own work. That's what you're here to do,
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 5: you know, Yeah, your your own work. So yeah, thanks
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 5: about everyone in the comments. You are great, very nice.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 5: It also couldn't keep up all the time here, but yeah,
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 5: sell some good stuff and it doesn't happen without you
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 5: guys in the chat, right, It's it's all a synthesis
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 5: of everyone.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 6: So thanks a lot, Oh, thank you.
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 3: And I think you know a really good way. And
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 3: not to get cheesy with it, you know you said, uh,
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 3: you got to do your own work. I really think
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 3: to even end it with dot. When you do your
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 3: own work, you have your own experience. Which in my opinion,
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 3: is what gives you true knowledge. So exactly what he said,
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 3: do your own work and have your own experience. Uh,
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 3: thank you again. I really really appreciate it. Both of
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 3: you is to uh, you know, do this series with
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 3: me and everybody in the chat. I mean, that's what
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 3: was off. There was a lot of great stuff in there.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 3: There were a lot of just wondering and thinking and
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 3: comments and questions.
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 4: It was awesome. I really appreciate it. I'm glad it's
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 4: going as well. Uh yeah. And that is the That
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 4: is the end of this one and until the next one, everybody.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 8: Be well, close your eyes, look into the darkness, find
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 8: the blazing star.
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: Focus on it would be called the eclipse. Don't feel
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: like the show will begin.
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 5: And go.
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: You is.
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 4: I don't let any