Latest / Making Miracles Happen Masterclass / Ep 8: "No One Should Work This Hard and Get the Same Results!" | Attachment Expert | Dr. Gary Salyer

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Ep 8: "No One Should Work This Hard and Get the Same Results!" | Attachment Expert | Dr. Gary Salyer · Making Miracles Happen Masterclass

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: My first question for you is I really want to know.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: I know you well.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: My audience may not know you, which is what is the crisis that led you to the work that you're doing now?
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: What is the crisis?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: You mean the series of crises?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's already carrying.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're all about telling stories here, so give us the whole story.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the crisis was the never-ending.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, do you remember the story, the never-ending story that was a kid's show?
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, yes.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it turns out that I had this thing in childhood, knowing I came from a dysfunctional family, and I said at seven, I am never going to get a divorce.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: Ever.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: I will not be like my mom.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: I will not be like my f my uncles.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: I will go to go and I will pass, I get my 200.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: Unfortunately, somewhere along the line, I got a, you know, my first wife asked for a divorce, and I got in, I go, I got into jail, so to speak, without the you know, without the get out of jail fast.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: It was called divorce.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so I do a whole bunch more work.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'd gone to college, get in a psych degree, so that I wouldn't have this.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I'd gotten in the second degree in marriage and family.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was a shock in my life.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: I thought I'd done all the work.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I do another 10 years of work, and lo and behold, we go to go, and there's no$200.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: There's another, there's another divorce called my second divorce.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: And the worst of it was having done the work, I was not showing up creating distance.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: But some part of my my brain found a partner who would provide the distance for me.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: So it doesn't matter where it's coming from, the distance will eventually eat a marriage alive.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: And after a few more repeating patterns, dancing with distance, so to speak, not quite dancing with the stars, mind you, some part of me said, this has to change.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: And if I've done all this much work, if I can't find the, you know, the ways of changing this, because no one should work this hard and get the same results.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: And that was sort of the crisis that said, I'm not going out of life without the love of my life.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: I've worked hard for it.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's my incarnational purpose, and it set me up to do the work I'm doing.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: Because nobody should work that hard and still do the same things over and over again, or pick the same things, or the same patterns keep showing up.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: That was the crisis.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: It was a long-going crisis that hit me one day while shaving.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: This must stop.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, what did you do to make the transition so it would stop?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there was, you know, it was after one very painful breakup.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: And in this one, it was after the second divorce.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think I had gotten a little flighty with love, and I'm and it was with a woman that was pretty secure.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so in the universe started speaking to me through a voice that came from the ex uh at the on the night she broke up.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: She goes, You're too good of a man to show up like this.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: Why don't you go study some NLP or something and get your shiz together?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: I okay, that's a story I've never heard.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: That was the catalyst right there, what she said to you.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: The universe has a way of speaking, and sometimes it speaks through the female of the species.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of men have heard this, you know.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: And in the next couple of months, I I really took that to heart.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: There was that, you know, and I realized there's no way I can keep saying it's on them.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: And and I have done the work, and it's you know, and all this many years of therapy, you know, all the grease of the whole thing.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, something is off here.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: If they can't figure it out, then I will.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: And that became my last purpose.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, what really helps the brain create different experience?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: Because I, Gary, wanted something different, but some part of my brain was sneakily going behind my back to create the same situation.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think you just described probably everybody who's gonna be listening to this podcast.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: That that that was the story.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: That was the story where everybody's gonna go, I've done everything that I know how to do.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: I keep showing up the same way, or life keeps showing up the same way, or I keep tracking the same people.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do you help those people that are listening that are in the story that you got out of?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's you know, first off, we don't make any part of that wrong.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: We don't.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_03: Some part of the brain is creating this.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's not the conscious part, I mean it's the unconscious part, you know, it's whatever caught your attachment brain.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: And it is doing it out of deep loyalty and safety.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: Back then.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: Distance at one point in time with a with a uh mentally ill mother was my salvation.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: I may not even be speaking here.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: A brain that's not distance from a volatile, violent mother is taking the best deal available, as I say.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: So we don't make it wrong, we don't judge it, we don't create a parts conflict inside of ourselves, we don't have that inner critic saying, Why are you doing this again?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: But it's about doing the deeper work, and it's not enough to have a label, a label in five bucks that Starbucks just might get you a cup of coffee, you know.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I had labels, right?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: I I had cognitive skills.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: The real deep work that wasn't available, you know, maybe when I was doing some of that, traditional therapy was all into cognitive behavior therapy, cognitive, not the deep emotions that are running the ship.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: And the real answer is deep in your brain, you've gotten feelings, and these feelings are your motivational states, and your brain organizes around the feelings you got, and they're protection, and there's filters, and there's all sorts of ways, and they and it sets it up that you expect more, so you got to protect against it, or I need this to survive.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: But all that was then, and this is now.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: You've got to be able to update it, but how do you update it?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: More thoughts, nice, but won't do it.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: Better feelings, there's your answer.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: You have to get your brain to have better feelings running.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I happen to, when I did my own analysis of this, as I said in my book, there's four feelings that tell everyone who is what's called securely attached.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: People that know how to find and create and keep real love.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's called secure.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: Otherwise, the other options that most people know about are anxiously attached.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: One does love to go away.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, how do I lock this down?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so you drive people away because you don't give them any freedom or you're always doubting them.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: And then there's another, the avoidance that seek distance or calm things down to the place where there's everything is centering, there's no passion or there's not much emotional access.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: In the middle are people who have been given a feeling of welcomed with joy.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: So they search for welcomed with joy, not rejected, not always triumphant.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: They're worthy.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: They feel worthy at a cellular level.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: When they feel worthy, they they find people who know how to meet their needs instead of people they have to overgive to or they have to beg or they get great breakfast from.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: Cherished.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: He's you know, having the feeling I'm cherishable and protectable.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I can be a me in a we.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: The we doesn't stifle.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a bad thing to be close and intimate.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: That close, intimate we is going to empower me to be my best self.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: That's cherished and protected, and then empowered with choice and voice.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: We are empowered to create our own experience, not be stifled, you know, not to be become invisible, not to give ourselves up.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: And we get to have a voice where we speak our truth in a secure way.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: The real key to changing how your brain creates love, creates relationships, is to take any feelings of unworthy, unwelcome, uncherished, or abused, or whatever you want to call it, or disempowered, and to re- and to find how, you know, the exact flavor of safety, your brain needs to reclaim them again.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: Welcomed, worthy, cherished, empowered.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: Because my new concept I've come up with is your original secure self.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: Everything, once you start getting these other feelings, unwelcomed, unworthy, uncherished, and disempowered, they we usually get them earlier, maybe an older relationship.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: They become the emotional template for what you're allowed in the future.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: They become the the little cookie cutter for creating new experiences.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: And we just have to go back and create better cookie cutters so that we in that way we choose people who will give us those feelings.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: And also just as importantly, we know how to give it.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: We know how to make people feel the person we love feel welcomed, worthy.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: When you do that, people naturally choose better, create better, and repair better.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's based on the emotional feelings inside.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: So having more more labels or more cognitive skills, it doesn't do you any good to study Rosenberg's nonviolent communication if you feel disempowered and you don't have a right to assert.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: You can get, you know, the brand one was how do we know Rosenberg is safe?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: We don't want to do that.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's like what kind of wishery is this?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Are you talking about healing the past?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: Are you talking about changing the past, Gary?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: No, no.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I you know, you have to understand that when your memories are encoded, they are also given feelings.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: There's an emotional soundtrack, right?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: I have this one little idea.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: Just imagine the ending scene to Sleepless in Seattle with Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Remember, they meet uh up on the roof, right?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: And now imagine, you know, I think at the time there's you know, you imagine if you're meeting up there and they're meeting for the first time, and from an old past music tape of Jaws is playing.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that that that memory, as that's what it feels like.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, this is what it's like to meet somebody.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: Now imagine we can take that soundtrack and we can put in, you know, Frank Sinatra, old blue eyes singing doot do do do someday.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: When, you know, and all that good stuff.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: That soundtrack gives you a very different feeling.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: Now, when we talk about the past, we're not here to say that the events are going to be erased or we're going to give some sort of hogwash that it didn't happen.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: But what we know from the science, the neuroscience, it's called memory reconsolidation research, is once your brain remembers a memory and plays the soundtrack, there's literally a five-hour window where the brain is amenable.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's open, it's labeled to adding different feelings.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: So one of them one of the things I do is I help people go back, find the painful memory that created the pattern, but give it a different feeling.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: So it no longer creates a feeling that is the real uh emotion that's running the show.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: I look back and there are moments when I can still remember being thrown against a wall at age two or age 13 or 18.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: There's a few of those moments back there.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't have to feel so unsafe.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: I can replace those feelings, and so I can remember the feelings, but not I mean, the old feel I can remember them, but I don't feel them anymore.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember the memory, but I don't have the feelings.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: So as a result, for a kid that was constantly feeling rejected, I don't know if they're rejected at all.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: I have friends all over the world, one of them sitting right in front of me.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: I am welcomable, you know, and uh I am cherishable, which was, you know, and so instead of running those old feelings of rejected and uh not protected, so I need distance, I have the same memories but with different feelings.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: And those different feelings allow me to pick, choose better because it's the feelings, feelings are emotions, motivate comes from the same Latin word.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: They are motivating structures, they tell us what's permissible or not.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: We change the emotional structure.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, if you're a man listening to, I'm saying it's emotional, then you change the way the brain creates relationships.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: So we're not changing the past, we're changing how the past feels.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: So a few times you've talked about yourself in relationships and you say a distance, distance.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: What attachment style were you running?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: I was running both if you really want to get technical about it.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: The one I didn't mention is disorganized.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, because five percent or only five ninety-five percent of the other three.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: When there is extreme abuse early on, a baby, a child is seeking proximity.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: And we know that if there's real abuse and you've got a real need to go toward, and a real need to stay away.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: And that does and for me, you know, there was a part of me in the way it showed up in later relationships, some part would sabotage seeking distance, and then when I go breaking up, all hell would break loose within me.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: I want her back.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: If I got her back, then the distant part, oh no, we got to get that's disorganized.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's disorganized.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: Now it's more, I mean, I'm not talking about situational avoidance, but this is, you know, whether, and luckily, I was not the part of the dis 80% of people with disorganized have a cluster B personality disorder.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: Thank God some part of me, and I think it was probably due to my grandmother giving me some, and because we stayed there for the first five years of my life.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: I think my grandmother gave me just enough to keep me from going down that road.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: So for our listeners, describe what that road is.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, what that looked like was well, if you have cluster B personality, you you wind up borderline personality, a narcissistic personality, and antisocial.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: This now that Freud called it borderline.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: He called it borderline.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_03: We're just on the border between mental illness where you're hospitalized and you can be around.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: If you're really looking, you know, borderlines, like my mother, have a you know, out of nowhere their anger pulls up and they and it's like walking on eggshells.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes they do self-harm things of that nature.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's um, it's it's there's a real more deeply seated, that's not what I call middle normal middle class craziness.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, this is way over here.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: Now, for me, I you know, I think the fact that my my mother rejected me so much, my grandmother took over.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so I have a lot of really good memories of a grandmother who would come over and say, hey, let's make banana ice cream together.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: That that added, but when you know, but on the other hand, when you were you when you're home with mom, there's you never knew what was coming.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: So when someone is doing better than you would think they are doing, like with all people, then you know they got it somewhere.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think when I look back at this, I think some part of my soul chose this.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I could have sat with both sides, the anxious side, the avoidance side, so then I and now I'm secure.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I know I knew what questions to ask.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: I could tell from reading research, this is a this is relevant, and that's a nice piece of research.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: Beautiful footing, not clean.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: When we talk about psychology, basically they tell us we can't change.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, what part of you decided that that wasn't true?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: Now that's interesting because there up until the the decade of the brain in the 90s, that was the dominant idea.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: Even when I took personality theory my senior year in college, the professor showed us both philosophically and psychologically.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: He had a double doctorate, one in psychology and philosophy, and he was a brilliant professor.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know what the final for this course was?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: He simply said So I'd given all of you enough evidence to say that a brain, a person can change or they can't.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: Give me an give me the final is go home and take two months to write about it, and every one of you will be forced to take an incomplete give it to me second semester.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: And when I sat down over Christmas break, because I was a kid student, and it was 50-50, but some part of me said, I can't live with the nihilism that nobody can change, or other my life is screwed.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I had this feeling in my dorm room over Christmas because I was staying and and working at the library to get enough money to back.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, I can't live with that.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm glad I made that choice because for a long period of time, we thought by the time 18 people's identities are formed.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: Now we know they're not.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_03: They did not understand neuroplasticity.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_03: They did not understand the five-hour window where when you run through a neural network enough energy that so you can remember them the memory, that surge of energy, that electricity, loosens up the protein structure so that the memory is now labile enough that you can work with it.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't know that back then.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: So thank God that some part of my better self said, I'm not going to live with this nihilistic skinarian brunit, you know, beyond freedom and dignity, which is beyond, I thought was beyond hope and actually having a better life.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: So we now know way more.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: There's, you know, we know that memories can be changed.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, one of the prime people in the whole wrote an article and then 10 years later had to write another one saying it would appear that we were wrong.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's absolutely the case.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, that's Damasio.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_03: And he wrote something in the early 90s that he took back 10 years later.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: The good news is this is science-based.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: You can change your brain, can have memories with different feelings, so you're not carrying the past like it's running then.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: So that was what and changing all those feelings, working with the the the memories and all this the protector parts for both sides of the anxious and avoidant thing, you get them all to song down.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: And then think about it is you've got a you've got a whole bunch of memories and neural networks.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody has tons of neural networks that say, I like eating this, you know, I like going jogging, you know, this, you know, all these things.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: And they're like a cacophony, uh, enough choir that's just singing all sorts of different things.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: But if you work enough with them, you get the prefrontal cortex gets to be the conductor.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: You get to be the one that creates music out of whatever you've been given.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I'd like to think that all those memories I had, you know, just a few years ago, you know, I've turned them into a be a beautiful choir that I call the safe to love again choir.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm really curious.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you mentioned borderline personality, narcissistic.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: Are those people that their brains can still change?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I don't typically work with that.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: That gets more into clinical work, and I try to stay away from that.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: There are there's some, you know, dialectical behavior therapy is found to be much more effective, but borderline is hard getting out of.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: And with narcissistic, they're coming up with some techniques.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: But the last I checked, clinical psychology has a success rate of about 14% of narcissism.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: There is both an inherited biological and a learned.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Part of this one.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: So that gets into some other things.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: This is why I I tend to deal with what I call normal middle class craziness.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's normal and middle class craziness.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you very much.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: Out of your story and everything that we've been talking about, is there a miracle in this story?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: Is there a miracle in this story?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: Gosh, I'd think there's a bunch of them.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, think about it like this.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: I can honestly say to you that one my therapist in the back in the late 80s when I started doing this work told me that I my mother was a borderline borderline.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: The miracle is that some part of me was wise enough to reach out to good people, and those good people showed up in my life.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I will always thank my third grade teacher, who really did quite a bit, Mrs.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: Graham, to pull me out and a lifelong friend, and the right people showed up at the right time.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, some of it is diligence and just dogged determination.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: I often describe myself as the terrier that gets on the ankle and doesn't give it up.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, but on the other hand, I think the miracle is that I mean, I've survived million and one odds.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: I to become this.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, I can still remember, you know, I was uh I've been a really good father, and now I'm a really good husband.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: My I have a wife that knows she is loved.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: And strangely enough, I you know, my best friend once said to me, if somebody had from now he goes back to third grade, so he knows me.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: Says, if someone had told me you would become a brilliant PhD, I would have said, Yep.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: And but a brilliant father, I would have said, Oh, come come again.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know how friends can just be brilliant.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, friends can be honest, a little honest, maybe a little more than one what one one at a year, you know.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: But the fact of the matter is, you know, I feel like my soul's led me.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: And there have been some you can call it miraculous, you can call it serendipitous, right?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: You can see providential, whatever, but the right resources have shown up, and I really believe that, you know, when the student is ready, the teacher appears.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: I have become that now.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: There was a time I needed that, and now I have become that myself for others.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, you know, I think there's a miracle.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: I look back and I think, how did that kid ever make those decisions and find those people?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: And there's and I do do believe there was more going on to guide me than just me.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_03: And but I believe but that's the see, I think, you know, I didn't come from a family where there was anything like a we.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, you know, I you know, the other thing that's true about me is shoot, when my mother died, sh I I I she was I wasn't even on the obituary.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's not and nobody in the family environment.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: Once I went to college, I became, you know, for family that didn't nobody went to finish high school, I became kind of high fluent from them.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it wasn't me, it was them.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and I used to think, oh gosh, I got no no belonging in life.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: But you know what was also important?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: Once I discovered that I was cherishable and protectable, I had a right to separate.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's it, just and belong.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: It not only changed my fundamental intimacy relationships, you know, the intimate partners, how I how I lived with in within them, how I chose.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: But I began to realize I live on a beautiful cosmic week that the universe has my back.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: Every time I've needed something to show up, it has.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: The universe has always been with me, and so I I feel like there's a ton of belonging.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I get it with a with a biological family, but I get to choose the people that I call family, people like you, right?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you know, and there is truth to what Wayne Dyer said.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: We had a he had a problem with his father, you know, the way I had with my mother, right?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: And he he once said in a PBS show, one of his in, you know, there's long shows he used to do on PBS, he says, he said that friends are God's way of apologizing for family.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: So even if you come from a family of wolves, and I think in many respects that was the case, you know, it didn't mean I didn't have a right to belong.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, I got the most beautiful gift in the world.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: I get to choose all these beautiful, conscious people, right?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: Who are who give me far more lift but underneath my wings.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: And somewhere along the line, I think there's been a whole string of miracles like that, you know, and I'm grateful every day I wake up.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, you and I are going to talk about podcasting after this.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: How how is it that you just signed up, you know, signed up and said I can talk to you about that the week I'm thinking about starting my own podcast?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, how does this serendipity show up?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: It shows up with a beautiful smile.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: Gary, can you go ahead and just describe to people what is sitting behind you on your wall?
• 28:00
  unknown: Sure.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there's a load of books.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: You one might imagine I've read a few things, you know.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: There's an there's the book called Safe to Love Again.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's I put I blew it up about four times, so you can get there's the cover.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: And when I work with couples, there is a really beautiful piece of artwork that I had a ceramic artist make.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's and it's a we-e we because at the heart and soul of my work, especially with couples, is helping them feel safe and know how to create a we.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: Show me so when I work with couples, the issue is somebody's got a problem being in a we, they don't know how to create a we and singles, they don't know how to choose someone that's going to make a we with them, or they can't choose it themselves.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_03: Either way, relationships are ultimately about a we.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I put it in the back behind me.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I'll tell you, it's a little bit on the sneaky side.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: I had a husband show up one day, and you can see it behind me when you're if you're in a session, and the guy says, Hey, what's that piece of the artwork back there?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: It says, We.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: I think you're getting subliminal.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think you're trying to manipulate us.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: I go, oh no, it's conscious subliminal message.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: I want that we to be back there influencing you the whole time.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I said, so there's I said, Yeah, this is overt.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: This is not covert.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, at front and center, Gary, at front and center.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, whenever I have you on the live event, uh, you know, I always tell you to mention your book, and people will always message me and say, I wrote read his book, and it was so amazing because it explains so much of what they're experiencing or what they were going through.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, what is the name of the book again and where can people get it?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: Safe to love again.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: How to uh how to uh release the pain of past relationships and create the love you deserve.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's on Amazon.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: And you could also read my newest essays on Substack.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: Gary is one of the rare people I will refer every single one of my family members to.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: My family is a family of avoidant people.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: Turn in secure.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: Look at that.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: It actually works.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's so amazing.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: But I absolutely love your work.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm happy about the work that you're doing out in the world.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: And for anybody who feels like they are drawn to this work, this is somebody I can actually say I recommend.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a stranger, it's somebody I know very well.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: I've known for many years.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I just attest to your work.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so many people that I've I've sent to you, you know, even my own clients that I work with who are having breakthroughs.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I don't think you should do anything else without talking to Gary.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, even if you're working with us at the same time, go talk to Gary.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: Go push you to Gary.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes it takes people a year, it takes people a couple of years, and they're like, you know, because sometimes you it's it's wise to work with a male and a female if you have issues with with one or the other.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's something that I've noticed that creates a lot of balance, but it's also just the work that you do is just absolutely incredible.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for being you, Gary.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for saying all that.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I do think there's you know, there's a balance in life and working with both both genders are is a wonderful thing.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: One of the saving graces of my life was I had a woman a long time ago was a woman therapist.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: And after divorce, I was saying all women, all women.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I there was a mantra between us, some women, some women.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and I couldn't deny she was not one of those women.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, it was this pernicious truth.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, she doesn't fit the mold that's coming out of this divorce.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I just love the fact that uh you feel it's the highest of honors when somebody refers my work to others, their clients or their family.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so I take that as a high honor indeed.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Any last words, any last messages for the people listening to this who want more of you, Gary?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you can you know you can always reach out to my website, but I want to leave you with this.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: So many times by the time we get to a certain point in life, we feel broken or hopeless.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: And then if if it's not the feeling of broken, it's the feeling of unworthy because you've been on enough apps and there's been enough ghosting.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: But I want, you know, and there's an epidemic of people feeling worthless, you know, not enough.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I want you to know that you're not broken.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: Some part of you is actually working the way it's designed.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: We just have to upgrade his operating system, give it better directions, better feelings, and you are worthy to have the love you want.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_03: And it can be safe.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, I'm in a beautiful marriage that we every day is like Christmas, waking up with each other.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: We laugh more than you can imagine.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, this is doable change.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: Doable change.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I no matter what the part is that's afraid of having it better, that comes up with all sorts of reasons, you know.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we don't know.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: Did we ever live through better?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: We don't know about that.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you sure it's safe over there?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it is safe.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so this is doable change, and you really can have the love you deserve.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Let's make miracles happen.