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Crime Roundup with Nancy Grace: The Mangione Case | Zone 7 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Crime Round Up.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: I'm Cheryl McCollum and I am joined today like always,
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: with the one and only, the peerless Nancy Grace.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Good morning, honey.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: You know what, I can't even speak after I found
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: out that an anchor at my old TV home, seeing that,
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: of course I was at HLN, the sister network, actually
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: had the control room remove the lower banner, you know,
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: the lower third as they call it, so she could
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: get a better look at Luigi Minianni's body.
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: I mean, I'm just what the yellow istro all of
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: these people to see. I cursed.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: That's where I'm.
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: At right now.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: If any situation called for that, it's right now, Nancy.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: I have been just gobsmacked by the people that are
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: supporting him. They're calling him the new Robin Hood. He's
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: a martyr, he's a hero.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: It is just.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: It's disgusting to me because I'm going to tell you
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: that was somebody's father, that was somebody's husband, that was
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: somebody's son. And you know, anytime that people somehow say
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: that this murder is justified because of X, whatever the
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: X factor is for you, I caution you change it
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: if you want to say Robin hood stole from the
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: rich to give to the poor. Change the word rich
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: to any other group and tell me that doesn't sound
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: freaking pathetic. If you change rich to elderly, or African
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: American or lesbian, change the group's sounds heinous. The fact
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: they think he's sexy, the fact they think he did
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: something right, the fact they think he's some type of,
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: you know, now, heroic figure. Every bit of it bothers
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: me on every level. How can these people literally come
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: out and say, hey, look at this guy with his
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: six pack.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Look at this you.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Know, handsome man that is now our new hero is baffling.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: Well, okay, I'm going to try to focus off edgits
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: that are glorifying Luigi Mangioni, and I am going to
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: talk about the only thing that I can really do,
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: and that's the evidence and the law surrounding this case.
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: Many people have asked me, well, there's a.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: Lot of legal issues coming up, but they tend to
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: get really boring, so to try to briefly rush through them.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: Many people have asked me online and on camera, why
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: is Mangioni charged with murder II and not murder one?
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: And first of all, reality check, it's New York, there
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: is no death penalty. I feel recently, but it was
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: several years ago. Covered a case where I think four
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: people were gunned down and left in a fridge at Wendy's.
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: I think, so the bark could rob the cash register.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: Really you kill four people, Like, basically, you can kill
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: as many people as you want to in New York
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: and there is no death penalty.
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: You don't have to worry about that.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: So, whether it's murder one or murder two, there is
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: no death penalty. But I had to look long and
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: hard at the New York law, Cheryl, because murder one,
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: the elements to prove it sound a lot like murder too.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: You know, there's something called like voluntary manslaughter where let's
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: just say you're DUI and you right over somebody. You
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: didn't have the intent to kill. He just got drunk
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: and right over somebody. In my mind, is still a murder.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: But that is not murder one. That's voluntary manslaughter and
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: a lot of jurisdictions. Then you have an involuntary manslaughter,
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: which a lot of people can get probation on.
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: But there's something called men's rea.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: The requisite intent to do the act or the intent
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: to kill.
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: Guess what. Murder one and murder.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: IWO in New York both have intent to kill, So
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: what is the difference. It seems to me that murder
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: one in New York is reserved for when you kill
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: a cop, when you kill law enforcement, when you kill
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: a judge, when you kill a witness. And I also
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: notice it's reserved when there's torture involved. So you know,
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: the penalty is a little bit stiffer, but you can
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: still get life.
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: You can still get life for murder two.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: Murder one offers life without the possibility of parole. Murder
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: two is life. So that's the difference. It's the same
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: legal elements and intent is required. I also noticed that
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: it refers to depraved heart, an abandoned and malignant heart,
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: often called a black heart.
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: That is just example, driving through a festival on Thorde
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: Avenue at ninety miles an hour with the little vendors
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: and the children with balloons and face painting, and you
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: hurl yourself through at ninety mph.
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: That is an.
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: Abandoned and malignant heart with no regard for human life,
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: and a death occurs that can be prosecuted and get life.
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: Okay, it's right up.
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: There with malice murder, and then there's also felony murder,
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: which gets the same penalty of life, and that is
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: very simply put, a death occurs in the commission of
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: a felony What does that mean? Cheryl and I go
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: rob a bank again, and I say, Cheryl, don't get crazy. Instead,
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: Cheryl gets crazy, pulls a gun, and she us the
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: bank teller dead.
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: Guess what, I'm on the hook for felony murder.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: Because a death occurred during the commission of a felony
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: bank robbery.
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: That's how that works. So all three of those.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: He may later be charged in the alternative with felony
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: murder or other types of murder, but right now he's
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: charged with murder too. He's charged with gun charges for
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: having a ghost gun, which is I have serial number
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: on it, for having live AMMO and a gun. Let
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: me think what else? Oh? Yeah, a forged document which
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: I guess is his fake passport and fake driver's license.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: Those are his charges currently, say Philly, Pennsylvania's actually around
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: Altoona also has charges on him, but they have agreed
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: that the murder charge in New York will take precedence,
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: and we're just waiting on extradition, and this ding dong
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: is apparently gonna fight extradition.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Of course, Nancy, thank you for explaining all that, because
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: I'm one of those people is sending as I hear
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: murder too, I'm like, what that's me?
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: So thank you for that.
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: Cheryl, I did the same thing. I'm like, murder too,
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: my rear, Rea, this needs to be murder one. Then
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, what is murder one? In New York?
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: I had to research and research and research to figure
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: out why not murder one?
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I just appreciate knowing because it makes you, you know,
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: feel better that they're doing the right way, the right thing.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: But I'm going to ask your opinion. Let's say he
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: does get life and he is at some point eligible
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: to be released, if he is ever released from prison,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: if he's convicted, if he's ever released, does that mean
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: that Pennsylvania would immediately get him and go to trial
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: and then he would do time there as well?
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think how that'll probably work. It's why wait
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: fifty years?
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: I go ahead, and as soon as he's convicted in
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: New York, god willing, I would get him sent back
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: to Altona tried right then and have it to run consecutively.
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: To the New York sentence and then ship him.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: Into a CI correct so on institute. You don't stay
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: at the county jail forever. Think about Andy of Mayberry
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: and Otis would just wander in and out. That's the
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: county jail, okay. Not in the big metropolitan area like
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: Fulton County where you and I practice, or of course
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: NBC Metropolitan Detention Center. But in a lot of smaller
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: jurisdictions it's you know, very loose, almost friendly, right be.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: You don't get a lot of hardcore criminals there. So
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: he will be in a CI where he belongs. What's
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: he is convicted in New York, But I would take
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: him immediately to PA to get that conviction put to bed.
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: Done and done.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: I would not wait, you know, until he finishes his
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: sentence in New York for Pete's sake, HG W l N.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: I'd want that conviction a lot in now while the
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: witnesses are still around.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Brilliant, absolutely, you know.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: I want to clarify. We did a program about human trafficking,
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: and the routes used by human traffickers in certain parts
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: of the world.
• 9:09
  Speaker 6: Are the very same routes at age old routes of poachers,
• 9:15
  Speaker 6: and we're trying to make the connection how to stop
• 9:17
  Speaker 6: human trafficking by finding these poaching routes.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: I know it sounds esoteric, but if you're being human trafficked,
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: it's not. It's real, that's right. You know what I'm
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: so upset about Mangioni. I'm not have to crack open
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: a can here. Hold on, okay, hold on, It takes
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: me a second. I guess you want to know what
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: I'm drinking. I do the hard stuff, the eight low sodium.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: What are we gonna do about Mangioni, because of course
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: we've got the fingerprints matching to MANGIONI. We're gonna have
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: DNA because idiots drank out of a water bottle and
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: threw it down.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: I'm very curious who he.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: Was talking to, excuse me to who he was talking
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: on his way to.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: The murder, because again, to me, there are limited people.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: You can call it six thirty in the morning.
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: Wait, we talk all the time at six thirty in
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: the morning, usually by texts.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, you and I, but my group is you and
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: my sister. She loved that gets up at five. I
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: can't call anybody else at six thirty.
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: In the morning.
• 10:25
  Speaker 7: You know, now I'm seeing the headlines about where he's
• 10:30
  Speaker 7: being housed. Of course it's at Huntingdon, and you know
• 10:35
  Speaker 7: everyone is talking about it's his facility.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Nice enough, I mean, what, let's get to it, Nancy.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: This guy took great time to build a gun that
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: could not be traced. He took time to travel to
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: New York, spent ten days. He got monopoly money, he
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: got fake eye, he got.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: A fake passport.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: He made sure that he had things to cover his face,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: different jackets. He took time to write a manifesto. It
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: is again baffling to me that anybody is going to
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: champion that any group, whether it's CEO's the homeless, people
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: with mental illness, that any group deserves to be murdered,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: because I'm going to say again, you change the word
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: CEO with any other group and it sounds disgusting.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: And I have no gray area when it comes to murder. None.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: Many people often wonder why the sentence is lesser for
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: voluntary manslaughter, for instance, as opposed to murder one. It's
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: such as a duy man a dy manslaughter.
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: Why do you get twenty on that? In life for
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: murder one.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: Because the victim is dead. In both cases, the families
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: are distraught. We'll tell you why, because there is a
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: degree of coldness, of calculatedness in murder.
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: And you were just talking about how he wrote the.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: Manifesto, how he stalked the health boss, how he traveled
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: this circuitous route from Atlanta by bus under a faint name,
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: just all of the measures he took not to get detected.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: Along each one of those steps, he could have said,
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: what am I thinking. I'm taking a human life. Somebody's
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: going to bleed out on the sidewalk. They are going
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: to be children left without a father. You know, much
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: has been made about the wife living in a separate
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: home from Thompson, that they had been quote estranged but
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: getting along to raised children. You know what, how do
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: I know she didn't hope for a reconciliation one day?
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: How do I know that he didn't work all the
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: time and it hurt their marriage and she separated.
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: You never know what's going on. People might say, oh,
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: she didn't care they were split. That is not true.
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: We don't know that.
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: We don't know what she's going through. Try to explain
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: to her children that some unknown azeilant attack their father
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: and shot him down like a dog on the sidewalk
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: and let him bleed out in the dark. And each
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: step of the way he had the opportunity not to
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: do this thing.
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: Murderers. I've looked at so many of them, Cheryl. Some
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: of them are.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: Just idiots, and some of them are extremely intelligent, like BENCHIONI.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: He's smart. He ain't got no street smarts.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: And here's the deal. He is a walking contradiction. He
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: is such a piece of crap that he's going to
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: sit there and pretend that he's gonna take somebody out
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: because of their greed, but he comes from money. He
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: is going to say, I'm attacked genius, but I'm going
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: to use a spiral Nope book from my manifesto. He's
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: going to say, I've got back pain and can't have
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: sex with anybody, but I can run, I can ride
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: a bike, and I can ride a bus for five
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: and a half hours. He's gonna, you know, get this
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: attorney that tells him don't say nothing, and then he's
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: going to make all these outbursts. Day one, when you
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: and I talked, this case made me think of DC
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Sniper and Eric Robert Rudolph for two reasons.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Both of those things have come to be.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: It makes perfect sense to me that he thinks he's
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: avenging himself or his mama, just like Eric Rudolph thought
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: he was doing. Eric was going to build these bombs
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: they saved. This kid said he was going to blow
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: some people as well, but chose to do the firearm instead. Again,
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: a lot of time was taken, and to your point,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: a year ago, six months ago, three months ago, he
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: could have stopped. Somebody might could have gotten to him
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: and say, you know, what.
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: Are you doing.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: There is no doubt in my I'm mine.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: His family recognized him, college people recognized him, high school people.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Possibly it took a stranger in a McDonald's to turn
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: him in. So again, these people that are champion for
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: him great didn't work.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: It's never going to work.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Good over evil every time, every time one person did this,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: But how many New York City police officers responded, how
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: many folks in Pennsylvania responded, how many citizens responded by
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: sharing his picture?
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Love wins every time.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: I understand that the FBI and others are trying to
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: determine when the family realized that Luigi min Gianni, their
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: son brother cousin was in fact the health boss assassin.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: The reality is, unless they actively did something to impede
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: the investigation, they are not under any duty to come
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: forward and identify me and Giani. So they I hate
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: for them to spend time trying to figure that out
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: because there's not going to be a prosecution.
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: On that at all.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Ever, what do you think after Well, let me just
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: go back.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: I think even before I think he went ghost, I
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: think he stopped communicating with people. I think the family
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: knew there was a problem. I think he's been very
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: vocal about what he thought was wrong with the insurance industry.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: He hasn't hidden it. His manifesto with and the only
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: thing he's ever written down not the only thing he's
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: ever said publicly with his outburst. Now, this is not
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: anything new. Friends and family I believe had to have
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: known that he was in this direction with his anger
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: misplaced or not. Then I think you're talking around Thanksgiving.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: He's just ia.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: So when his pictures out there, whether he made contact
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: with them, I can't believe they didn't.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Try to get in touch with him.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: I can't believe Mama wasn't trying to figure out where
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: is he?
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: Is he?
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, there ain't no question she knew who it was.
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: I'm just thinking about his family, and I'm not going
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: to think about them very long because I'm more concerned
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: with the victim's family.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: But imagine, Cheryl, well as you do with your two,
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: you work your whole life to help them to get
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: them through school and get them into the best college
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: they can get into, to get them through Oh lord,
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: I remember just getting the twins through Bible Challenge, for
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: Peat's sake. That took three years. They had to learn
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, there was a song and we would
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: sing it in march around the house, Jenna's Exodus Loviticus.
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: Blah blah blah blah blah blah. That's how we learned.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: Oh and then anyway, and I would go over and
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: over and over the twenty third song with Lucy.
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: Oh my stars. Three years they finally graduated Bible Challenge.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: Forget that what getting them into you know, high school
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: and the college search and the or the daynist and
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: the there's a lot, and you do it gladly, happily, willingly.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: Is for all your time, all your money, or at
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: least in our case, all our money, not in Mengioni's.
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: Case, all your love, and you know dreams I once had.
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: Of course, my dreams were just putting bad guys in jail.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: I didn't have a dream past that, right, But all
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: your dreams are now for them.
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: What is Lucy going to do? What is John David
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: going to do? What is going to make them happy
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: and fulfilled? Who are they going to marry if they marry.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: And what can I do to push them forward or
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: help them just a quarter of an inch? And then
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: you see that picture and you realize your son Luigi
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: Mangioni is the health boss assassin.
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: I mean, oh bomb bomb.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: You know, Nancy, I tell people a lot of times,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: and you know this because you and I used to
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: talk about it. When you have a murder trial, the
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: victim's family, absolutely you can point them out, no question
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: about it, the grief, the heartache. But you can also
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: do that with a defendant's family. They are broken as well,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: because not only are they going to lose a child
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: because of the freedom being taken, but this child of
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: theirs that you say correctly they've poured all their love into,
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: has taken the life of an innocent person, and in
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: a way.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: Your life is for well and not what your life
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: is forever altered because everything you are looking forward to, Like,
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: you know what, I'm looking forward to The Twins school
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: made it to the state championships, and I'm looking forward
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: to going to that game and watching Lucy be a
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: football manager and looking up in the stands and seeing
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: John David in some crazy fanhat. I'm looking forward to that,
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: you know. And I'm looking forward to Christmas and every
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: minute I have with them, And I just don't know
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: how empty life would be if I didn't have that
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: to look forward to. And that is the position his
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: parents are in.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: The CEO's wife.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Everybody in the world is coming to her, friends, family, neighbors, work, associates.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Everybody's given her whatever support they can. His family people
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: are distancing themselves. That's the reality too. What he has
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: done to his family is unforgivable. So not only has
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: he broken their heart by murdering somebody senselessly, they are
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: losing friends, they are losing family members, they are losing
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: neighbors as support. It's horrible murder. Nobody wins. It's not
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: a solution again for these people that think he's done
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: something so great that CEO was replaced before they got
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: him off the sidewalk. You've done nothing, You've accomplished nothing.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: It's just senseless and just the devil at work. That's
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: all there is to it.
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: You know what he could have done.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: He could with all his brands and money, he could
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: have started a foundation for insurance victims. He could have
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: lobbied Congress. He could have raised awareness. I mean, his
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: family owns part of a radio station.
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: He could have taken.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: Calls every day at noon about insurance scams, assurance, you know, pitfalls.
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: There's so many things he could have done.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: You know the starfish story about the man that's picking
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: them up and throwing it back in the ocean, and
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: the person says, what are you doing? And he's like, well,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: I'm saving his starfish. I'm throwing it back in the ocean.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: And they you can't save all of them, but he says,
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: but I can save this one. What me and Jenny
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: he could have done with all of his wealth. He
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: could have picked one person a year to pay their
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: medical bills. You can't save them all, but he could
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: have saved one.
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: You know, it's.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: Interesting after my fiance Keith was murdered. I thought, Okay,
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: when this guy gets out of jail, do I have
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: to go kill him?
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: Is that my duty? Do I need to go kill him?
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: How come I do it and not get caught?
• 22:47
  Speaker 8: Is that what I need to do? I, instead of
• 22:53
  Speaker 8: focusing on that, assumed he would be in jail for life,
• 22:56
  Speaker 8: and flung myself into law school to help other crime victims.
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: Then as time passed. Of course, I've got the twins.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: I would never ever jeopardize one minute of being with them.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: That's why I start work in the morning at five Cheryl,
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: so I can be with them.
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: If they can be with me when they get off
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: of school.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: You know, there's other ways, other ways to make the
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: world a better place. There are ways than to hunt
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: someone down and shoot them dead. I'm just sick about
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: the whole thing, and I don't want to dwell Amanngiani's family,
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: but I can only imagine what the mother and father
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: are going through. Hey, can I talk to you about
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: that ghost gun? Did you notice it looks like a glock?
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: It looks like a glock nineteen nine semi. There's no
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: block logo on it right, and the grip is different.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: I've been looking into it researching it, and it's a
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: free to download three D rented design and it's known
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: as the f m as A Mother D Delta A
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: Alpha f Frank fmd A nineteen point two Chairman one remix.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: Now the guy who designed it, I guess it's a
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: guy Chairman One does not want to be linked to
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: this shooting at all. But he had stated he was
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: shocked when he saw photos of the pistol, and he
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: acknowledged that it was his design. Then he got so
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: worried he deleted the post. Now Biden, I am not
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: pro Biden or anti Biden. I don't care to me,
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: They're all the same. In the White House, Biden had
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: proposed regulating these components that are used in homemade guns.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: Did you know there are over twenty five thousand privately
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: made firearms that were discovered in one seizure in twenty
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: twenty two, twenty.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: Five album, all untraceable?
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Sheryl Well, I know.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: I mean here at the police department, I have a
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: couple of ghost guns that we've taken into evidence.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: But they are rare for us. They are super rare,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: which tells me a couple of things. I know they exist.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: I know they're out there, so they're usually in the
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: hands of somebody that's not the fifteen year old gang member,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: not the you know, crackhead burglar. This is somebody that
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: has gone to great express, great.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Time again to get this gun. A lot of the
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: guns that we are going to.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Seize from different burglaries, robberies, things like that, are going
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: to be somebody that stole the weapon in the first place,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: out of somebody's car or home, and they either drop
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: it because it's no good to them anymore, or.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: You know, we get it when they are arrested.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: But the ghost guns, I would venture to bet are
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: less than one percent of what I've got in there.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: So let me talk to you about how long it
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: would take him to make a ghost gun. I've got
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: twenty to forty hours to make one ghost gun, which
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: adds to the.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Pre planning and great expense.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Because Nancy Hutton Caroline have a three D printer that
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: they got years ago, and they can make little toys
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: and things like that.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: But there's a lot of material.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, this isn't something you just can buy one
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: little box of something and make it. There's a lot
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: of parts, there's a lot of materials and a ton
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: of time for that machine to work.
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: So how does that factor into evidence?
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: They're going to be able to take that gun because
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: one it was own him, and that is so critical.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: They didn't find it in the woods, they didn't find
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: it in the water, and you and I talked. We
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: knew he was going to have that gun own him
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: because it meant so much to him.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: No way he was going to throw that away.
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: It was like his little baby.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: It's like his baby, and the fact that it was
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: owning is paramount.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: The ammunition is going to be the same.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: The shell cases that the scene are going to be
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: the same as the ones that are sit inside the gun.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: They're going to have the handwriting on there with the
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: permanent marker, so those are going to have fingerprints and
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: DNA on them as well. The gun's going to have
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: DNA all over it, so that gun is tied to him.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Period. Don't don't hit a serial number at all. I mean, Cheryl,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: what a whack a doodle?
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: This guy loving off his parents and a high rise.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: In Honolulu with a group that does nothing but surf
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: and they're living in this luxury high rise.
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know how much that irritates me.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: But ah, and all the hours he's spent researching this
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: and making the three D printed gun, and just it had.
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: To be hundreds and hundreds of hours that he's spent.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: And again he's got this whole thing in his head
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: about what's right, what's wrong, who's good, who's bad, And
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: he's the only one committing crimes.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: It's just unreal.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: And you know, again, like DC Sniper wanted to leave
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: the death Card, he wanted to leave Monopoly. It's their
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: tisted view of the world. And you know, Nancy, you
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: and I talked too about him, you know, being a
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: big fan of the Unibalmer.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: If you look at.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Who these criminals were research like Coburger, researching Bundy and
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: researching BTK, it'll tell you about them.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Him wanting to research the inn Obomber will tell you
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: about him.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: And you know, my favorite quote from the Enbalmber is
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: when he said, I believe in nothing. And I think
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: this is true of this young man. He doesn't know
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: what he believes in because.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: His actions make no sense. What he put together makes
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: no sense.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: He's a walking contradiction that is way out of bounds
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: with his thinking.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: I'm curious why he didn't just have another back surgery
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: to get out of the pain he allegedly was in.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: He could have made all kind of decisions that were different.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: It's a real shame.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: I noticed that on his an ex account that's been
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: linked to him, he talks about the negative impact of
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: smart finds. He talks about healthy eating, exercise. He quotes
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: an Indian philosopher Beach de Murty about the dangers of
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: being quote well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. Yeah, okay,
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: Well of crap.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Where was he caught.
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: McDonald?
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, hugging a what was it, a hash brown?
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Give me a freaking break. You can go get a
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: power bar if you want to.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: But you ain't.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Fooling anybody, because again, when you were caught, mister contradiction,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: you're enjoying, you know, a big old biscuit and hash
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: browns and whatever.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: You don't know what you believe in. You don't know
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: what you're about.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: You do know, we're in the weeds right now, okay,
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: because we're talking about his hash brown and his quote
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: big old biscuit as you put it, when we could
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: be analyzing the facts and the evidence so on that note,
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: I will give you adieu and I will finish my va.
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: Did you know today's my mother's ninety third birthday?
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Nancy, tell her happy birthday.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: Amazing, I will, I will well, y'all go celebrate that, Lona.
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: I think it's not that amazing when you're up with
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: her three or four times a night just to check
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: on her.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: This morning, I went in there with hot coffee. I
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: have to make it just right. She b I t
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: c h ed to hell him back the other day
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: because David took it upon himself to bring her a
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: cup of coffee.
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: And it was too strong.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: And like David, you have to give her one third
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: of a teaspoon on decaf black. If it's eating more
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: than that, she will totally spit it out. Okay, I
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: wonder what it's going to hit him. He did not
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: sign up for this. But anyway, I took her coffee
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: and I made her homemade biscuits with melted butter okay,
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: and apple jelly on the side.
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: Okay, she has to have it in a little dish
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: on the side.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: And the first thing she said was before I could
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: even say how any birthday was.
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: I can't get Andrea on the TV.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: You know who that is, right, Yes, Yeah, that's fantastic Andrea.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: But Kelly, I'm pretty sure See thinks they're in a
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: relationship because very often, very often, he'll have a stunning woman.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: There are always somebody different come in and sing duets
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: with him, and she hates the woman, whoever they are.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: He always hates them, just like hate hate, hate, Like
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: why is she singing with Andrea?
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: He is ruining it for me, my mother. That's a
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: crazy TV criss on Andrea, Kelly.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: I love her. Listen, y'all go celebrate big. She is
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: an absolute gift.
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: Do you dare? Remember her and my father coming to
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: a lot of my trials.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Of course I sat next to her. Remember when you
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: did the Mason Jar. She was so proud of you
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: because you've timed that so beautifully. Of course I remember.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: I remember having all the dinners at Mary Max. Of course,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: of course I remember going to her house. She gave
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Zoe a he had a lesson right then and there.
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: Yes, and another thing, you know, she worked so hard
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: to help us. You know, she had a full time job.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: She wouldn't get home, you know, six between six and
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: seven at night, and I would hear her to the
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: car horn coming up the driveway, and that was the.
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: Highlight of my day.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: And I'd run out to help her as she got
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: out the car, and she would have a stack of
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: papers that would go they'd be in her arms and
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: they go up to cover her face. And on top
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: of that would be a plug and calculator with the
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: cord dangling down, and I'd run help her carry all
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: of her stuff in. And I can remember, just like
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: it happened yesterday, that she would stand in the kitchen
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: making dinner, and she would want me to stand at
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: the kitchen table where we would eat supper and state,
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: you know, give deliver my four h demonstration. And I
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: could not look down at cards. I had to make
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: eye contact and know like a five minute presentation by heart,
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: okay about whatever it was that I was talking about forestry.
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: Or canning food, or home decorating or.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: I don't know whatever, landscaping.
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: But she did it all, Cheryl, she did it all.
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: So I do not mind one bit. Okay, taking her
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: her one.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: Third of the teaspoon decaf black and hot, okay.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Right on, give her my love please, I will buy
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: my love. Bye, Honey.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: It is the sun of the road,