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Life as a Rogue River Guide with Nicole Smedegaard | Go Wildly Podcast · Go Wildly Podcast

0:00
Welcome to Season 2 of Go Wildly podcast.
0:03
We are Emily and Heather, 2 childhood friends who carry a
0:06
mic into wild places like rivers, trails, and forests with
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wild people to host raw, honest conversations about adventure,
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healing, identity, and the transformative power of nature.
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In this season, we're centering the voices of people who call
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Southern Oregon home. Outdoor enthusiasts and outdoor
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professionals whose lives have been shaped, changed, or are
0:28
continually influenced by time outside.
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Come along as together we go wildly.
0:39
Something OK, Perfect, Perfect. Hi, good morning.
0:40
We are here for the Go Wildly podcast.
0:43
Today on the Rogue River with Nicole Smedegard Nicole is a
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whitewater boater, guide and instructor who has found home on
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the river, especially the Rogue, where she's guided for more
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than. 15 years. After showing up to too many
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pinned boats, stranded swimmers, and river rescues, she made it
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her mission to promote boater safety and self rescue skills
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here in Oregon. She's the owner of Nature Nicole
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Whitewater, which is an ACA Level 4 certified instructor.
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With over 10,500 river miles and more than 1000 days on the
1:17
water, that's pretty damn impressive.
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She's a lover of inflatable boats, exploratory missions, and
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what she proudly calls Type 2 fun.
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Nicole brings deep experience, curiosity, and joy to every
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stretch of river she runs. We're really excited to talk
1:34
with Nicole today about her moments on the water that shaped
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her and why the river is such a powerful teacher.
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We're floating today from Valley of the Rogue State Park on the
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Rogue River down to Coyote Evans Wayside.
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It's going to be a foggy, beautiful day at the beginning
1:50
of February here in Southern Oregon, and a flat, cozy, calm
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stretch of water is ahead of us. We are excited.
1:59
Yeah. Thanks, ladies.
2:00
Thank you. Let's hop on board.
2:03
Nicole's boat. Let's check out this boat.
2:06
Let's do a little boat to work here.
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Your steed awaits you perfect our.
2:11
Trusty Steed. Oh, she's even got her logo on
2:15
there. That's a nice.
2:18
Boat, Yeah, yeah, this is a a custom color setup.
2:23
You got to. You got to match the truck,
2:25
which is also yellow. Which is.
2:30
Is yellow your favorite color? What?
2:32
No. Oh, oh, blue.
2:34
Oh, I know. Yellow.
2:37
'S nice, but yeah, you don't want to have your gear all be
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blue and then if you're in the river and you lose it.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yellow stands out.
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I like that your oars also match.
2:49
We got the Sawyer. And your pad is sparkling.
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Yeah, have you seen these? No.
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My friend Eugene Brian McGinnis makes these at Oregon River Gear
3:01
and the sparkles are actually in the material.
3:03
It's not like painted on. I when I saw it sitting up on
3:07
the trailer I thought it looked damp, like misty.
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And no it's sparkles. I'm in love, I'm about to get
3:18
myself a new pad. The foam is really good too.
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It's nice and thick. Yeah, I got those old lady hips.
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You gotta have the thick foam. It's so comfy, I'm sold.
3:33
Maybe we should. Get a little maybe?
3:34
We need to ask. He makes he's a friend of yours.
3:37
Yeah, he's a local. Brian McGinnis.
3:39
Who says in Eugene, OK? Oregon River gear.
3:43
Yeah, but he might be down. He might be down for Votesmith.
3:46
You might be able to catch him on his way through.
3:47
OK, OK. Well, we'll reach out.
3:52
It looks, look at the skies so. I genuinely love Oregon in the
4:00
winter. We might have trademark issues
4:06
with that some. People are like boating season
4:09
in December and January. I'm like, yes, that is the
4:11
season, Yeah, believe it or not. As soon as I I only got a dry
4:15
suit. Maybe my dad was still alive so
4:18
four years ago. Game changer.
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Almost four years ago, yeah, I was totally a fair weather
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boater before that. And now I'm like, yeah, I can
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go, I'll go. Have dry suit.
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We'll travel. Yeah, let's all hit it.
4:31
Hit it, hit it, hit it, hit it, quit it, quit it, quit it.
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I'm just here for the vibes. I was just thinking I'm like
4:43
maybe I should read an intro every now and then.
4:45
Yeah. Sorry guys, I did it all last
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season. You're going to see Emily on
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this season. I'm the star of this season, so
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that roof is covered in Moss. Those windows are covered in
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aluminium foil. Aluminium What's?
4:59
Happening here these are wow, look at these houses, guys.
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Yeah, I've never stretched or I've never floated this section.
5:06
You haven't either, except maybe in an inner tube.
5:09
I was probably in middle school and I was on an inner tube and
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it was like 115° out and we did this section.
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Wow. Yeah, awesome.
5:20
So does that mean you grew up here?
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Tell us about a bit about who you are and where you came from
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and how you ended up at this stage of your life.
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I don't know how I got here. Here I am the Yeah, the the
5:35
short version is that I'm from Rogue River, a town.
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Now. I think it's funny, though, when
5:41
people ask me where I'm from and I say Rogue River and they laugh
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because as a river guide, they assume I'm making a joke about
5:46
living on the river, which I also do in the summer.
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I live on the lower Rogue, but I spent about 15 years in Eugene
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and I was doing guiding on the road, so I'd commute down here
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in the summer and then I was teaching.
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OK, so. Teaching River.
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Environmental education OK, cool.
6:05
I decided to come back during COVID my my family moved to
6:11
Bellingham and so my childhood home was open but like in
6:15
disrepair and I was like, well, I'll just need a.
6:17
New roof and. Fix it.
6:19
Oh, it needed so much things Yes, all of the things new
6:21
bathrooms, new roof, new landscaping, new porch.
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Like the yeah, the the work of like going on to 8 acres with a
6:33
1973 double wide. You're like, OK, this is a
6:36
thing. Yeah, but yeah, it's mostly
6:38
fixed up now. And so I've been back in Rogue
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River for like since 2019 ish 2020.
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Yeah. And it's been great to be closer
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to work. I can, you know, Did you come?
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Back like you said, 2019-2020, was that before COVID or did
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COVID it was like kind? Of during like I made the
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decision to come and then it was sort of a slow transition, but
7:00
yeah, OK. For actual COVID shutdown, it
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was kind of an interesting story.
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I ended up being on the Grand Canyon.
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And so we we launched the day before that shutdown.
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And so there was no one behind us.
7:12
It was weird. So yeah, I got back on your trip
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and I was like, time to move. Going back to the country.
7:17
Yeah, it's enough city girl for me.
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Did you feel like? What were the feelings coming
7:23
back to your hometown as an adult, reintegrating with a
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familiar but now like distant community?
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Yeah, that's a fun question. When I was in high school, I
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remember thinking, like, only losers stay in their hometown
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and, like, I got to get out of here, right?
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And I was like. That's a very Southern Oregon.
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Offer Yeah. And then I came back and I was
7:45
like, wait, I'm closer to all my favorite rivers.
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There's such a great paddling and outdoor community and I
7:52
don't have traffic. And this is actually my eco
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region. Like I'm familiar with all the
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plants and the geology. And so, yeah, it just felt like
8:01
really comfortable to come back. Nostalgia.
8:03
Yeah. And I, I think, you know, if you
8:05
weren't a river person, though, Southern Oregon might be not as
8:10
desirable because like, look at this year, we don't even have
8:13
any snow, right. So if you're like a snow person,
8:15
you're like, oh, but yeah, if you like the liquid version of
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water. I think hiking too.
8:21
And yeah, there's not biking. If you like poison oak, yeah.
8:24
Yeah, yeah. I don't mind it.
8:25
I don't get it. What?
8:27
Yeah, superpower. Lucky, lucky one.
8:30
Well. Let me say I've never gotten it,
8:32
but I don't know if I've never like been like, let's test this
8:34
theory. I've never been like, let's hold
8:35
it in my teeth and run around. Yeah, no.
8:38
Let me like dive through these these bushes.
8:41
That's but the weird thing about poison oak, what I understand of
8:44
it, I'm highly allergic to it, is that it's one thing that the
8:49
more you're exposed to it, the lower your tolerance becomes.
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Whereas some other allergens, if you're exposed to it more and
8:57
more, your body will like build up an endurance to it.
9:00
Poison oak you get weaker. I feel like it was maybe like an
9:04
evolution because my dad is not allergic to it, but he OK, so
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he's not allergic to it, but he grew up drinking goat milk that
9:17
they were. Eating the they were.
9:18
Eating the poison oak. But then somehow I'm like that
9:21
How'd you have passed to me? But then, but then you think
9:23
about that and you're like, no, you.
9:25
You weren't nursing off of him. Right, exactly.
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But I also think that maybe, I also think that maybe just hit
9:35
like that gene of whatever that allowed him to become immune to
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it through the goats milk. Maybe that is just like we're
9:44
not as allergic to it just in our genetics.
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Yeah. Yeah, you did still.
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Acquire genetics lottery, then yeah.
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Yeah. For Southern Oregon, yeah.
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Yeah. Poison oak for sure.
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Yeah, I'm very jealous of that. It does.
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It does influence our function and our hike ability when we're
10:02
looking for sites to record podcasts and just to live.
10:07
I have to be very cautious about where we go.
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And then I'm. I have a very like don't touch
10:13
me, don't hug me, no dogs. She like has alcohol wipes.
10:17
Yeah, I keep alcohol. Wipes in my car to that's brutal
10:20
yeah yeah it's pretty bad yeah I like change my clothes as quick
10:23
as possible and. I think people are the only ones
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that get it like animals don't get.
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It yeah, they can carry the oils, but yeah, they don't get
10:30
it on their skin yeah Lucky's. Lucky's, yeah.
10:34
What did outdoor life look like for you growing up in Rogue
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River was like? Did you find the outdoors?
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How did? Yeah.
10:41
How did you find Sure the Outdoors?
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I'd say just being like a bored and lonely child and having the
10:49
outdoors on the property, you know, there's some woods behind
10:52
where I live and I'd trespass on all the neighbors woods too.
10:55
Yes. So, so yeah, just having like
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the early childhood creativity to be like, OK, well, these
11:02
rocks and sticks are my toys and watching the wildlife are my
11:07
friends. And I think now, you know, that
11:09
kind of parenting is maybe frowned on.
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But when I grew up in the 80s and 90s, it was like free range
11:16
children was like normal. And so I think I've always had a
11:21
lot of comfort in nature. Like I was never afraid of the
11:23
dark as a little kid until this is actually a good story until
11:27
my dad scared me. I was late coming home from my
11:30
friend's house through the woods.
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It's probably like a quarter mile walk.
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And he hid behind a tree and like made leaf crunching sounds
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and like pretended to be an animal chasing me.
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I got so scared and I like ran for my life.
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And then after that I was, I had a.
11:44
Fear I had a little. Fear.
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Yeah, I've definitely always been comfortable in in wild
11:50
places. But are you an only child?
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Sort of, yeah. My brother has Down syndrome and
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autism. He's non verbal.
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So like he wasn't like a a play companion.
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But the other thing is my dad had a jet boat, right?
12:05
And there was a dam. So Savage Rapids Dam created a
12:10
reservoir just below where the bridge is where we're going to
12:13
take out today. So we'd do that thing where you,
12:16
like get in the inner tube and the jet boat goes and Donuts and
12:20
you like fly off the inner tube. Yeah.
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Like on the, on the wake that it makes.
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So I was I was one of those kids that did the motor boating
12:28
sports, but I never went rafting until after college.
12:31
Oh, interesting. How?
12:32
Yeah, How'd you find drafting? I followed a boy.
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Classic. Like literally followed him.
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I was like, I don't know how to do this.
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I'm just going to do everything he does.
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He's like setting an angle and I'm like, OK, I'm doing that
12:44
too. He's slipping.
12:45
I'm like, oh, I just slipped too.
12:50
Yeah. So, so Sean, my partner taught
12:52
me to boat and that was probably around 2010.
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I started going on trips with him and then I immediately was
12:58
like, I don't want to just sit in the front.
13:00
I want to row my own boat. So.
13:01
So I picked up rowing first and now I also are too cool.
13:04
Paddle boat, all the rest of it. Sean spelt with a H.
13:09
It's Sean. Mine too.
13:11
Oh, you. Also have the correct spelling
13:13
of yes. Parmesan.
13:17
That's my newest little making for him.
13:19
Yeah, Parmesan. But yeah, I have a Shawn too.
13:23
I hear Shawn's are good. These are great backyards.
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I love floating through right the residential areas because I,
13:30
I love curb appeal or I guess like Riverside appeal and seeing
13:35
how, how their access is and. Yeah, I'm jealous.
13:42
Yeah. Riverfront properties sounds
13:45
like a great idea, though. Until it's flooding, yeah.
13:47
And then you're super stressed out and you're like, what's
13:50
gonna happen? And there's lots of different
13:53
regulations around how you can develop what you can, not just
13:57
like building development, but how you can landscape and.
14:01
Right, because this is designated mild scenic corridor.
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So I think we're in the recreational section here.
14:06
Yeah, I don't think the the regulations are as strict, you
14:09
know, as the scenic or the wild, but they're definitely still
14:12
there. Yeah.
14:13
Let's look at all the blackberries they have to deal
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with. Yep, yeah, which?
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Is great for out of it. No, I don't want riverfront.
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No, I don't. It's it's a lot of extra work.
14:22
I mean having land of any amount is is work, but it being
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riverfront, yeah there's other other considerations to have I.
14:30
Like this house looks very new. This black and Gray one, Yeah,
14:36
yeah. Yeah, I like seeing all the
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houses too. I'm kind of a little bit of a
14:43
house snob, yeah. Yeah, well, it's your job now.
14:46
Yeah. You're are you a professional
14:48
house snob? I.
14:49
AM. There's your next house it.
14:51
Has. I actually, my client's really
14:54
funny. I know professional house snob.
14:57
My clients, I told them yes, or I was like going to my open
15:00
house and they're like, oh, an open hise hise.
15:03
I was all, yeah, an open hise. And I was like, I'm going to use
15:06
that from now on. Look at that though.
15:08
That's a nice little place. Yeah, like I'll take that.
15:11
I'll take the house anyway. I hope it it comes with someone
15:14
to clean all those rooms. Exactly.
15:16
For real. Yeah.
15:18
That house cleaners are a essential job.
15:22
Essential job. It is a luxury and also a
15:25
necessity. And we do not have enough of
15:28
them in this area. Yeah.
15:30
For real. Yeah.
15:34
You don't need counseling, you need a house cleaner.
15:36
Yes. Dude I feel like 100.
15:37
Percent. Yeah, just in the car.
15:39
I was having a conversation about a disagreement I had with
15:42
my partner around the house. Cleanliness.
15:46
I'm a in the I'm a semi retired house cleaner and that's how
15:51
many of my clients came to me was the wife saying I'm done, we
15:56
we need this. Like he, I finally got him to
16:00
agree to give it a try and it's saved, saved their relationship,
16:06
gave them time and space to relax and breathe and take
16:11
pressure off of each other and like take trips without the
16:15
cleanliness of the house being a stressful component.
16:18
And yeah, all of my clients have been like, thank you.
16:23
I'm actually the opposite of a dirt bag.
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I like a very clean house. Are you a type A?
16:26
Oh yeah, 100% I'm I'm a type B for sure.
16:31
Is all. Does all your terrier have a
16:33
place? The type B tirade?
16:35
Yeah, of course it does. Everything goes back right where
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you took it from and. Yes.
16:44
Labeled. No.
16:45
OK. Is your partner also a type A?
16:49
Oh, I think that's, I think that's good though.
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I think if people are too similar then there can be a
16:55
clash there, yes. Absolutely.
16:57
Yeah, I agree. Yeah.
16:58
So you guys have been together for a really long time.
17:01
Wow. Since 2010 I think.
17:04
Wow, are you married or you just?
17:05
I'm actually anti marriage. I know that sounds weird but
17:08
like I don't have a reason to. Like I don't have kids, I don't
17:11
need it for taxes or healthcare. I don't.
17:15
I don't need a certificate from somebody else to tell me what
17:17
I'm doing. Yeah, for sure.
17:19
Yeah, I think maybe that's like a sentiment of my generation and
17:22
of people with divorced parents, too.
17:24
You're like, well, I saw how that worked out for other folks.
17:27
I don't really need to do that. Yeah.
17:29
But I guess, yeah, 15 or 16 years together.
17:34
Nice. I can relate to that.
17:36
He's only been mad at me one time.
17:38
Wow, what's the secret? I know you got to always be
17:43
right, but like actually though not just say that you are.
17:47
Yeah. I missed the water fill up spot
17:50
at Nan Koweep. I was lead boat and I went past
17:52
it. He was dehydrated.
17:55
He got mad. That's like a hangry situation.
17:58
Yeah, but like with water. Yeah, it's true.
18:00
Really wanted my water. Angry, thirsty, angry.
18:05
I mean, it could be definitely a thing.
18:11
Hey, Wildly wonders. Quick pause here.
18:13
If you spend time on rivers, guiding, rowing, kayaking, this
18:17
one's for you. Nicole is hosting a Whitewater
18:20
Rescue Technician Pro course through Rescue 3 International
18:24
happening April 27th to 29th in Southern Oregon.
18:28
It's a three day professional rescue course covering advanced
18:32
techniques and night rescue considerations.
18:35
The course is normally $345.00, but Nicole is offering Go Wildly
18:40
listeners a $45.00 off code using Wildly.
18:44
If you're driving or on the trail right now, just remember
18:46
that word wildly, and that will bring the course down to $300.
18:51
You can register at www.naturenicolewhitewater.com.
18:56
There's only 12 spots open for this course, and it is intended
19:00
for guides, river professionals, field staff, or individuals with
19:04
prior swift water rescue training.
19:06
So head over to naturenicolewhitewater.com, get
19:09
registered, and go learn from one of the best in our area.
19:13
All right, back to Nicole's story.
19:16
So since being outdoors is your profession, right, what does it
19:20
look like for you recreational? There's great blue hair and just
19:24
kind of lounging on the shore there, I think, tucked down.
19:29
What does it look like recreationally for you?
19:32
Well, I am almost 100% addicted to white water Where where like
19:40
to the point that skiing, mountain biking, backpacking
19:43
have all sort of fallen to the wayside.
19:45
And it's like, so at this point, unless I'm backpacking into the
19:48
boating, I'm like not really backpacking.
19:50
So, so yeah, it's taken over. It's taken over my life and I
19:55
work on the road overnight, four day trips.
19:59
But then. Pretty much have like November
20:03
through April to myself. And so I'll I'll like to go do
20:07
something international voting or I'll just hang out here and
20:11
hit all the runs that are storm fed.
20:14
So yeah, I pretty much go private voting every weekend and
20:18
then sometimes during the work week.
20:22
But I've set up my business to be a shoulder season and allow
20:25
me to take the winter off because I gotta do something.
20:28
I can't just guide in the summer and then have all winter off.
20:32
I like to be busy and need the extra income.
20:35
So yeah, springtime do some some rowing instructions, some soft
20:39
water rescues. And it's hard because spring is
20:42
so busy, because that's also when all the good white waters
20:45
running will go down to the salmon in California and go out
20:50
and hit any of the coastal stuff like the Smith.
20:54
And I think that I found getting busy recently that I actually
20:59
have to just schedule a weekend or four days.
21:02
It's like these are for the Illinois or the Chetco or the
21:05
Cal Salmon. These are not for my clients.
21:08
People are like, can you schedule me for like Memorial
21:11
Day? And I'm like no.
21:13
No. That's.
21:14
Private voting time. I'm busy, but actually this
21:17
Memorial Day I did give it away. I've got people coming from the
21:20
East Coast and they're kayakers and they're going to train to
21:22
row loaded gear boat because they got a Grand Canyon from it.
21:25
Cool. Yeah, very cool.
21:28
The overnight multi day trips that you do on the Rogue are
21:31
they They're through your own outfit.
21:33
I work for OARS. OK, cool.
21:35
And I've been at OARS since 2012, so this will be my 15th
21:39
season or something like that. Awesome.
21:42
Most people don't last that long.
21:43
Yeah, I like to tell everybody, like they fire me every year and
21:46
I just show up anyway. Oh, I'm here.
21:49
You can't get rid of me. You need people, right?
21:52
Yeah. And when you know what you're
21:53
doing, it's hard to it's hard to say no.
21:57
And there's a lot of appeal, I think, for the types of
21:59
companies that move around to different rivers.
22:01
Like I know Momentum just has like every river permit and
22:04
their guides hop from place to place, but I actually would
22:07
rather just be an expert in the one place that I'm working.
22:10
I don't want it to be a guesswork for the guests.
22:12
I don't want to be saying to them, I don't know when camp is.
22:15
It'll be around the corner somewhere.
22:17
Yeah. So you can say, well, we're at
22:19
mile 8 and we're going to mile 12.
22:21
It's going to take us exactly. 22 minutes.
22:23
Yeah. The yeah, you know, the other
22:25
stretches that I want to see, like I love exploring.
22:28
And I think that's what boating provides for me is not just the
22:32
white water, but the exploring places you can't see from trail.
22:35
So I'll go do that on my own time.
22:37
Like I don't need to do that for work.
22:38
Like I'm not, I'm not exploring while I'm like cooking dinner
22:42
for people. I'm just like, OK, chop, chop,
22:43
chop. It sounds like you've created a
22:45
really nice work life balance and like hobby, like somebody
22:49
that has chosen their like obsession and hobby and love and
22:53
passion like into a career. And sometimes those waters get
22:58
super muddy and like people don't know how to differentiate
23:02
them and then they get like super burnt out.
23:04
But it sounds like you've had a really nice, you have a really
23:06
nice cadence with that balance. Yeah.
23:09
So that's good. Yeah, I think what it all comes
23:12
down to the calendar scheduling that shit out baby and.
23:15
Like the mindset around it, the mentality of that this is, this
23:19
is what you love, this is how you generate income.
23:23
This is a passion and a profession and staying grounded
23:27
in that mentality around it that can prevent burnout also.
23:32
And like my partner said, he would never guide because he
23:34
thinks it would take away from his love for for rafting on the
23:38
weekends. And so it would for me, I don't
23:42
have trouble separating work from play.
23:44
Like they just feel like totally different.
23:46
Yeah. I'm like, these are totally
23:47
different modes. I got work mode.
23:49
I got private voting mode. Totally.
23:51
What does he do? He's a land surveyor.
23:54
Oh, cool. Yeah, that's a really great
23:55
nice. Also outdoors a lot or wants to
23:58
be. Yeah, good day job.
24:00
What? What does going to international
24:03
rivers look like for you? So I've done some stupid things.
24:10
Do tell Espanol no es muy bueno. Pardon me.
24:16
So yeah, my, my Spanish is terrible.
24:18
And so like immediately we're like, OK, let's go do the
24:21
Cotawassee, which is like this stupidly difficult river in the
24:25
middle of nowhere in Peru. And so a lot of people have
24:28
heard of the the Colca, which is one of the deepest canyons in
24:31
the world. And so the Kotawasi is
24:33
technically deeper, like if you measure right from the
24:35
mountaintop and it's classified with like a couple mandatory
24:39
portages. And so we showed up and like,
24:43
you know, had friends of friends connection, like had two people
24:45
with us who had never been boating before, which is crazy.
24:48
And so to get ready, we like, took them down some runs that
24:51
were also maybe inappropriate, like the Crooked at 3500 CFS.
24:56
Well, but yeah, it was good training for the codewasi
24:58
because we get there and it's like high water.
25:00
The boots are too narrow, the frames are too wide.
25:02
We're overloaded. One of the people get sick like
25:04
immediately. Like the £300 guy who's rowing a
25:07
boat is like green and vomiting. I'm like, oh boy, I don't know.
25:11
Yeah, so. But All in all, we came out
25:13
with, you know, minimum harm done.
25:16
Like I ended up with a pretty good injury on my sacrum from
25:19
getting crushed under the boat swimming.
25:22
And then, yeah, everyone on the trip ended up getting sick
25:24
except me. And then?
25:28
We got the guts of steel, OK, but.
25:29
The reason I didn't get sick is I drank too much homemade wine
25:31
the night before and I puked and I think I puked up whatever
25:35
norovirus everybody else got and so that I was fine the next day.
25:39
Wow, shit. Yeah, but like coming out of
25:41
this trip? That's a that's a life hack,
25:42
guys. Yeah, So we also ran out of
25:45
food. The van wasn't at takeout and we
25:49
had, we ended up having to go like another day.
25:51
The van had got stuck like crossing a bridge over
25:54
irrigation ditch that had collapsed and like, is this
25:57
whole thing. So we ran out of food and we had
25:59
to drive through an illegal mining town so we couldn't stop
26:01
for food, like as Americans and tourists.
26:03
And there's one of the guys in the backseat.
26:06
He was so hungry. He was like growling.
26:08
He was like. Yeah.
26:11
Because, you know, Americans were used to like getting off
26:12
the river and going for a burger.
26:13
Yeah, right away. Like within an hour.
26:17
So, yeah, so that was a, it was a wild trip, you know, like
26:20
pretty, I think it was 2017. And so I haven't had some
26:24
experience, but, well, it's supposed to be 5, but it ended
26:27
up being six. Yeah.
26:29
And then while we were in Peru, we also did like the Rio, Chile
26:32
and the Urim Bomba, which flows out of the Sacred Valley.
26:36
I did not go to Machu Picchu. I'm safe.
26:37
When in Rome? Yeah.
26:39
When in Rome, you gotta. Do it all.
26:41
Yeah. And then the other trips we did,
26:43
I did an Ecuador trip and I did a British Columbia trip, the
26:49
Chilko, Chilko 10, Frasier, similar sort of mishaps, like
26:54
spent a day lost in a Canadian tree farm trying, trying to find
26:59
pudding. You know, we figured it out
27:00
eventually. So yeah, my international trips
27:03
are like, I'm like, hey, let's take something that's stupidly
27:07
logistically challenging and figure out the logistics because
27:10
I like to problem solve. And then we get there and it's
27:13
usually fun with, you know, some mishaps along the way.
27:17
And I think, you know, the Patagonia trip was the only one
27:20
I've had that went really smooth.
27:22
And that's because I went with an outfitter or is, is partners
27:25
with Bobo Expeditions. And so they Bobo Patagonia let
27:29
me like come as like a guest guide.
27:31
So I had a place to stay and I have boats and their vehicles
27:34
and they like fed us and they knew how to get to put.
27:37
In yeah, they knew where the put in was.
27:40
So that was that was good. We did flip twice.
27:43
I was riding with one of the new trainees and it was a great
27:47
practice. I was reminded of what it's like
27:49
to flip in a full size raft on very large white water.
27:53
I was like, Oh yeah, you got to do something.
27:55
You're not just going to like flush into an Eddie because, you
27:58
know. On the road like.
27:59
All the Rapids end in big eddies and I don't even put on all the
28:02
leashes because I'm like, oh, it'll be in the, it'll be in the
28:04
Eddie if I lose it. Yeah, Yeah.
28:07
That's a. That's a good.
28:08
Lesson to learn the hard way, but with with a a positive
28:13
outcome. And my dad always used to say
28:16
like if I would flip OK, it's OK that you flipped but now how do
28:19
you recover? Yeah, it's more about what you
28:22
do after the incident then what caused the incident.
28:26
Like flips happen, so, and we're ready for it.
28:29
We're like. Yeah, this is probably going to
28:30
happen, but yeah, how do you. How do you come out of it?
28:35
How do you like? Maintain.
28:36
What are what do you tell yourself to maintain like focus
28:41
and positivity and I guess hope? Through those stressful.
28:46
Scenarios and kind of like you just got to laugh through it,
28:52
but do you ever find yourself like severely stressed and yeah
28:57
so this. Is actually a great question
28:59
because one of the best things about Whitewater is that it has
29:05
taught me self-confidence and the things that you think are
29:12
scary when you're like a college student, you're like, Oh my God,
29:15
public speaking is scary. And then you go do something
29:18
real and come out the other side and you're like, oh, OK, I'm
29:20
like now I understand how fear feels on my body and I
29:23
understand I can get through it and I know it's actually scary.
29:27
So all the moments where I was like, this is shit and I've like
29:31
totally messed everything up and we're all going to die.
29:33
Like each of those moments was such a good learning experience,
29:36
but I'd mostly do them all again.
29:40
I think 1. Of the hardest trips I did was
29:42
my first trip down the Chet Co. I think I swam like 13 times in
29:46
a day well out of an IK with gear in it.
29:49
It was just like rocky but swift and steep and I didn't really
29:53
have any IK experience. Let's just go.
29:56
There, there's that. And then the hike in is such
30:00
that when you get to the river, your legs are made a rubber and
30:02
you can't take another step. And you're like, thank God we're
30:04
paddling the rest of this trip because if I had to walk another
30:06
step, like I couldn't do it. And yeah, those physical
30:09
challenges are good because it like it gives you.
30:15
No choice but to have. Your mental game step in.
30:19
You're like, OK, my body's giving up on me.
30:21
My mind is the only thing I have left.
30:23
It's going to have to kick into gear.
30:27
And when you tell yourself you can do it, sometimes your body
30:30
finds a little extra gas in it too.
30:33
I remember the first time I rode the.
30:34
Grand Canyon and standing at House Rock, I think it is.
30:38
It's like one of the first bigger Rapids.
30:39
And I had like what I affectionately call a wet noodle
30:43
arms from the adrenaline. I was so scared and I wasn't
30:47
telling myself I could do it. I was like, I'm going to flip
30:49
this is this is so scary. What have I got myself into?
30:52
But then the feeling when you come out the other side and you
30:54
did it like, OK, well, OK, mostly the boat did it actually,
30:57
but I didn't. The river did it.
30:59
I didn't fall out. So it counts for something.
31:02
Yep. I had that same feeling.
31:05
Above lava, just like I what? I what?
31:09
I can't do this. What are you expecting of me?
31:11
You're. And then every other boat went
31:14
and said bye Emily and I was like your turn.
31:16
Oh fuck. OK.
31:19
Well, I guess I'm. Doing this and then I did it,
31:23
then you did it and. When I got a cat boat.
31:25
I would just tell myself the boat can do it.
31:27
Your job is to not fall out. Yeah.
31:29
Because, yeah, that boat will go through anything.
31:31
Game changer. Cat boat in dry suit.
31:33
If anybody wants to level up their white water game, those
31:35
two things will set you ahead like a whole class skill set
31:39
further. Yeah, Yeah.
31:41
Well, yeah. Great advice for people wanting
31:44
to get into boating. What what would you say to
31:47
people who are just starting out and also those who, yeah, want
31:51
to want to step it up a notch? I.
31:54
Think that. It's considered a legacy sport,
31:57
right? So I mean, pretty much anyone
32:00
can go by like a paddle board and go to a lake.
32:02
But when you start doing Rapids, there's so much dynamic
32:05
environment involved that you really want to have someone who
32:09
knows the runner has the skills to show you down.
32:11
So I think about it like finding a mentor essentially.
32:14
So I'd say if you want to really step up your game and get out
32:17
there on some harder stuff, that finding the group who has the
32:22
same risk tolerance as you and the mentor or leader who has the
32:26
appropriate skill set to put together the trip and to make
32:32
sure that everyone in the group is like an appropriate level for
32:36
doing that trip. And then to have your back and
32:38
to not be afraid to tell your mentor, hey, like, I'm nervous
32:41
today. This is my first time doing this
32:43
run. Keep an eye on me.
32:44
Like put me in the middle, right?
32:46
Like I might swim. And I think a lot of people
32:49
don't have that, that when they first start, what happens is
32:53
someone who's much more skilled just takes off in the front and
32:57
leaves the new person behind. And so having the relationship
33:01
ahead of time so that they're looking out for you instead of
33:03
just showing up and being sort of a glomer.
33:05
And then they're like, well, I don't know who this guy is.
33:07
Let's just go. And no one knows that you're new
33:08
and then you're scared. So yeah, you need that safety
33:12
network. And I do find the Women Voters
33:15
need it emotionally in a way earlier and more frequently.
33:19
I think that just jumping into a group of people you don't know
33:23
and you don't know they're at risk tolerance is like something
33:26
that most female voters I know would never do.
33:28
They'd be like no, I need at least one person who I know is
33:30
like my buddy system and is looking out for me and has my
33:33
best interest in mind and isn't going to sandbag me.
33:36
I sandbagged some people but it was not intentionally and so
33:40
this is coming from. Experience of kind of do as I
33:44
say, not as I've done Learn, learning from past mistakes.
33:49
The river's the best. Teacher And unfortunately that
33:51
means that you have to make your own mistakes all the times.
33:53
It's hard to learn from other people's mistakes.
33:56
Like you can cognitively right, watch someone have a bad line,
34:00
but then you get in there and you have to physically get the
34:03
muscle memory to do it yourself. Like it's, it's twofold, I
34:06
think. And the surge?
34:08
May hit you at a different time than it hit them, and you can
34:11
have a totally different run. Yeah, I.
34:15
Also think that starting in a boat that's forgiving is
34:18
important. You know, a lot of people think
34:20
they want to be classified Parkshell kayakers and they get
34:24
in like a little slicey hard shell and then they're like, oh,
34:27
this is terrifying. Like it's something that's
34:31
that's nice and stable to start with.
34:33
Absolutely. Yeah, that's a very good point.
34:36
I'm in a position like that right now.
34:38
I have a necky jive that I inherited.
34:41
Yeah, my first hard shell was a necky.
34:43
Nice. And it's a it's.
34:44
A little slicey for a a very beginner, A proficient beginner
34:51
kayaker, yeah. But.
34:53
Same thing. It really helps to be with
34:55
people who have the skills, have the knowledge, know that I'm
34:59
nervous and a beginner and have an eye out for me.
35:03
And then and then I do something.
35:05
Thank you. I'm bad at camera maintenance.
35:08
Yeah, I'm the. It's like gravity.
35:11
Strikes again. I'm usually talking with my.
35:16
Hands. So yeah, having people who who
35:20
have my best interest in mind and can be supportive in my
35:24
learning is is really, really helpful.
35:28
Have you encountered? So both my parents were river
35:31
guides in the 70s and my rafting royalty I am.
35:35
Yes. Talk about legacy.
35:37
That's why I have so many boats. I inherited several boats.
35:40
Essentially inherited when my dad passed a few years ago and
35:45
my my mom and some of the women in my river community of
35:50
childhood where some of the first female boaters first
35:53
female river guides ever on the West Coast in Utah and
35:57
California and Oregon. And they experienced a lot of
36:02
essentially sexism and they were they were the first women hired
36:08
by certain companies and they dealt with a lot of like
36:12
pushback and disbelief in their skills.
36:15
And so I'm really curious how a professional female rafter now
36:21
engages in what has formerly been a very male dominated
36:24
industry and if that is still like a tone still prevalent or
36:32
if it really is a much more inclusive world.
36:36
These days. Well, the answer like
36:38
everything. Interacting as it depends, it
36:41
depends on where you are on the rogue.
36:44
I had the good fortune to have a female manager and she was also
36:48
my mentor. Kate's awesome Kate.
36:50
Wolney when I. Started rowing heavy gear boats
36:53
for oars. I was like the biggest shit show
36:55
you've ever seen. Like I hit every rock.
36:57
Now I know where they all are, right.
37:00
So to have somebody like Kate as a role model made me feel like
37:05
being a female in the industry was not only accepted, but like
37:08
desirable. And like we had a team who was
37:10
pretty 5050 split, like she hired and looking for diversity
37:14
on the team. I'd say there's some places I, I
37:18
haven't seen that like I think in Grand Canyon as one of those
37:20
places where the culture is still a little bit machismo or
37:25
like male dominated. And I don't know if it has to do
37:29
with like how long the trips are too.
37:31
I know a lot of women have other responsibilities, maybe family
37:34
responsibilities or maybe even like family and juggling a
37:37
career. And so to be gone for three
37:39
weeks is just harder logistically than to be gone for
37:41
four days. So there's there's something to
37:44
that. I personally like this is weird,
37:47
but like my my dad pretty much raised me to be a boy.
37:51
He was like, OK, we're going to work on car engines and shoot
37:53
guns and go like grub around in the woods and get dirty and
37:58
same. And you know, if you want.
38:00
To wear a dress like whatever, but I'm going to frown at you.
38:04
So I always identified as more like of a masculine side of a
38:10
female anyway. And I, you know, I'm not, like,
38:12
worried about my hair on the river.
38:15
Yeah. Oh, I did brush it today for
38:19
the. Interview.
38:20
Thank you. Yeah.
38:24
So maybe my experience hasn't been typical.
38:26
Also, I think that as someone who's partnered, my experience
38:31
is different than a single female in what's traditionally a
38:35
male dominated industry that, you know, every interaction you
38:38
have is like potentially also extra above and beyond a work
38:43
relationship. And so it's like if there's
38:45
flirting and work, I think that can be a difficult power dynamic
38:50
for women to handle. Yeah, my experience is that the
38:53
industry is changing. It's getting more professional
38:54
and it's getting more inclusive to not only women, but, you
38:58
know, people of colour and everything.
39:00
I think that the the rogue is probably uncharacteristically
39:06
like half and half guides of men and women, and that a lot of
39:11
other places that I've been still seem like it's heavily
39:14
male. And I also see that the more
39:17
difficult the whitewater, usually the more male dominated
39:20
it is. But people are trying to change
39:22
that. And there's some really cool,
39:25
you know, initiatives and programs out there that are like
39:27
getting women guides into places.
39:29
And Alicia MacArthur is doing a really cool thing.
39:32
She's like working with women in India to become guides.
39:35
And she started like a, it's called Wow.
39:37
Like I don't remember what it stands for, but Women of
39:41
Whitewater. Or something worldwide women of.
39:43
Whitewater maybe, yeah. So there's people out there who
39:46
care, like industry. Yeah.
39:48
And that that's all it takes, I think is people who know that
39:52
there's a disparity and will take just a little bit of extra
39:54
effort to kind of like, OK, we're going to hire a couple
39:57
girls this year too and like make the team more balanced.
40:00
And I think it's also great to have some.
40:03
Like females tend to have that like Mama energy and I feel like
40:07
as somebody that would that would maybe pay for a trip to
40:13
have a few women, I'd be like and like older women too.
40:16
Yeah, yeah. Not just like the 18 year old
40:18
Girl Scouts. Like let's get some ladies.
40:20
Yeah, even I feel like, you know, women.
40:22
Just have a superpower of like comfort and warmth.
40:25
Typically not me. I mean, that's.
40:29
That's taught to us. We we don't necessarily have
40:32
that. Or maybe it's more solidarity.
40:34
For me and personally, how I view like like just yeah, if
40:40
you're a nervous. Woman coming on a trip.
40:42
It's nice to see, oh, there's other women here doing this.
40:45
OK. I have a little extra comfort.
40:46
Yes, if if they can do it, I can do it.
40:48
Yeah, we're doing family. Trips.
40:50
So like we should have a diverse set of guides to connect with
40:53
the guests. Yeah, it's the connecting.
40:55
Experience too, I don't know, I was just thinking of like the
40:58
paragliding offer that we just got.
41:00
We just got like this like, oh, we'll have to like get you in
41:03
the event and like tandem, you guys and I was just like that's.
41:08
Amazing. Wonderful.
41:10
If there's a female up there, I'll feel better.
41:12
Yeah, you know, like, like, I don't know, Koala.
41:15
Bear it on to some random. Dude, yeah, I'm sure the people
41:21
who do the tandem take the, you know, take the safety very
41:24
seriously, very conservative. Yeah.
41:26
I just love seeing like. I just love seeing women in male
41:29
dominated sports. That's that's like my we have a
41:33
lack of I primarily in like the mountain biking world here and
41:38
we had just have a lack of a lack of females that want to do
41:42
it and or scared. And I've been trying to kind of
41:46
cultivate, loosely cultivate some you.
41:50
Know I started. This like little group called
41:53
center and it's just like trying to get people to.
41:56
Trying to get. Women and to feel more
41:58
comfortable and maybe put on some clinics.
42:00
It got paused when I found out I was pregnant with my last child,
42:04
but but I'd like to get that started back up just in anyway.
42:09
I love seeing it and because it's so male dominated and like
42:12
the gals that even ride hard don't always like to ride with
42:15
the dudes. Like I see that all the time.
42:18
They're like, well, I ride mountain bikes and like I'm
42:20
pretty good and but there's just a different vibe when you're
42:23
going out with the girls versus, you know, a girl also riding in
42:28
the guys group, which I. Tend to.
42:31
Do a lot because because they're usually the only.
42:33
Female. Yeah.
42:34
Yeah, the the ladies. So photo rescue classes are 100%
42:38
hands down the most fun I. I don't know, there's something.
42:41
About getting everyone together. They just get like, a little
42:43
feral, you know, things like you feel like you're in a
42:45
comfortable space. You can actually be yourself.
42:48
Yeah, You don't have to. Put on a show or dim or mask for
42:52
the men or what the men or the men take up the space.
42:56
Yeah, people are so worried about.
42:57
I don't. Want to make a dumb question?
42:58
It's like, just ask it, everybody's singing the same
43:01
thing. Yeah, yeah, and by.
43:02
Asking that you've given the permission for everybody else to
43:05
relax a little bit and ask what they might think is their dumb
43:08
question. Yeah, you do.
43:10
So you do specific women only swift water classes or it just
43:14
kind of works out that way? No, I've advertised.
43:17
A few that were ladies or like feminine identifying people and
43:23
they filled pretty well and they were super fun.
43:27
It was actually my my first year of operating.
43:29
It was one of the very first classes I did.
43:31
And so my poor students, you know, they were kind of Guinea
43:33
pigs at that point because I was still figuring out my teaching
43:35
style and I still am. But they were such great ladies.
43:39
Some people came all the way from like Colorado even to take
43:42
the course because they wanted to do a women's specific course.
43:47
Do feel like they miss out on anything by only having women
43:51
and not having the like, diversity of pulling a man's
43:55
body out of the river? Or like, are there elements that
44:00
you have to make different accommodations for in that
44:02
sense? You know.
44:05
Everyone's just a person and so I find there's more individual
44:09
variability than there is between genders.
44:11
Cool. So I don't think having an all
44:13
women's course is like missing out.
44:15
I think it's just extra fun. Awesome.
44:17
Yeah, yeah. I feel.
44:19
Like I'd be more. Inclined to do an all women's
44:21
course. What is that?
44:24
Corodi, the legendary Rogue River.
44:27
Film The Ranger will tell. You don't worry.
44:30
It's natural. Yeah, it's pollution.
44:37
Gross. So our.
44:40
Like we ask a lot of questions obviously, and we're very
44:43
curious about many things. This is the interview process.
44:46
But we are. Especially curious about a
44:50
experience that you had outdoors that was pivotal life changing
44:54
like redirected the path of your life or is the the thing that
44:59
you look back on as the most core memory like outdoors?
45:06
I knew this question was coming and.
45:07
I failed to prepare an answer. It's OK off the top of your
45:10
head, I. Think I'm going to go?
45:14
With the the first rescue I did so the thing that makes that
45:21
pivotal for me is I realized that all the information for
45:26
performing effective rescues is out there and available and that
45:30
river guides don't really research it or practice it.
45:35
And so that led my my swift water rescue instructor course
45:40
of my life to like go that direction.
45:44
So the. The rescue I'm thinking of is I
45:47
was probably like a second year, third year guide or something on
45:50
the road and we came up to a wrapped raft at Blossom and
45:55
they're wrapped in a way that we can't go downstream.
45:59
Their boat is blocking the channel, so like, we have to
46:01
help them also. Of course, we want to help them.
46:05
And I sort of looked around and I was like, OK, like, who's
46:07
going to go unwrap this boat? And I was like, oh, shit, it's
46:10
me. Like, no one else here knows
46:12
what to do. You had the most.
46:13
Experience because I was there. The longest and I had taken a
46:17
swift water rescue, of course, as a student, which by the way,
46:20
terrified me. My first course I took, I
46:22
thought I was going to drown, like it was terrifying.
46:24
And so I don't want to give that experience to other people.
46:28
Ever. Did you feel that way?
46:29
Because. Of the instruction or just it
46:33
was the 12 me at. 7000 and we were flipping raps on accident
46:36
and the instruction also, yeah. But yeah, it was not a great
46:40
first intro to swimming Rapids environment, let's say.
46:45
Yeah. So we roll up on this rapid
46:46
blossom and it's this old Avon bucket boat.
46:49
And the guy rowing it has like a couple teenagers in the boat
46:54
with him. And they're all they're all
46:55
standing on the rock. And they have a hard shell kayak
46:58
that they have attached a rope to and thrown into the river and
47:01
the current to try to see anchor themselves off.
47:03
And I mean, this is like, it's like a 16 foot boat fully full
47:07
of water, like submerged. I was like, I don't think that
47:10
guy actually gonna do anything. I'm not an expert, but I'm gonna
47:12
go with that's not that's not the move.
47:15
So the first thing we did is is I was like, OK, as the rescue
47:19
boss, I'm supposed to stand on shore and like big picture
47:23
everything. But then I was like, well, but
47:25
wait, no to my team know how to set the Z drag.
47:27
So I have to go actually set the Z drag.
47:29
So I was like, OK, well, whose role is where?
47:31
I was trying to figure it out. I'm like asking my team for
47:33
help. And were you on the rocks?
47:35
Looking at this, yeah, we're standing at the scout.
47:37
OK. And we're making a plan.
47:39
And so I put our least inexperienced or most
47:42
inexperienced person on client control because we have 16
47:46
people or whatever that, you know, they're standing on a hot
47:49
rock in the sun. Excuse me.
47:50
And then we went out and we decided to prioritize the
47:53
rescuing the kids off the boat. So we took a, a raft, which I'd
47:56
seen Kate do this before. And you park the paddle raft in
48:00
the picture, Eddie, below the picket fence.
48:02
And then you throw a rope up to the people on the raft and then
48:06
they pull the empty boat up to them.
48:08
And then you can like offload into it.
48:10
So we like offloaded the kids and like left a guide on the
48:13
rock to help the guy set an anchor and the guy was like, I
48:16
work for a black diamond. I know how to set an anchor.
48:20
Haven't. You done it yet?
48:24
And then, you know, the whole series of things was like, it
48:27
was like fairly embarrassing for me and my team.
48:30
Like the guy that I left my guide out on the rock to help,
48:33
like he's wearing like flip flops.
48:35
I'm like oh, right in the middle of the.
48:38
Story of her. First major rescue and the
48:40
battery dies but we've trained for this you're probably
48:43
listening to this thinking I want to know how to handle a
48:46
real river rescue then sign up for Nicole's whitewater rescue
48:49
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48:53
April 27th through the 29th right here in Southern Oregon
48:56
it's really cool because. Instructor.
48:58
Trainer Mark Hurst is traveling in from Finland to evaluate
49:02
Nicole, so this course is a rare opportunity to train during that
49:05
assessment and help Nicole become an Independent Rescue 3
49:09
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49:12
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49:22
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49:25
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49:30
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49:34
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49:38
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49:42
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49:45
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50:05
OK, fresh battery in, hanging on the edge of your seat.
50:08
Back to the show. And we're back.
50:12
On the. Flip.
50:12
Flop flip flops on the Rocket blossom, do we?
50:15
Want to? Oh yeah, put out the.
50:17
Little viewy thingy you can see your lovely.
50:20
Face, do you want to adjust this?
50:22
As a little Can you hold it for a moment?
50:24
Yeah, it's like. A.
50:28
Behind the. Scenes.
50:33
Camera maintenance 10. One, yeah, make sure it has
50:36
battery, OK? We are.
50:38
We are wearing flip flops. Well, we're not wearing flip
50:41
flops on the rock. I was not.
50:42
It's awesome. But someone is I.
50:44
Probably shouldn't have left my. Guy who is wearing flip flops on
50:47
the picket fence. And so at some point, right,
50:49
like the owner of the boat is like head underwater, like on
50:55
the upstream side of a rap boat, like reaching for things to tie
50:58
the anchor to and my guy just like holding this guy's ankles.
51:00
Oh my God, I was like. This is not good.
51:02
I'm. Not but now I've taken the kids
51:04
to the shore and I've walked back up and I'm getting like a
51:07
kayak to go help. So there's like nothing I can do
51:09
from shore. I'm like, well, that looks
51:10
terrible, but all right, whatever.
51:11
What do I know? He's doing the best he can.
51:14
So so then we get in a kayak and I go to the Wave Rock.
51:18
It's this beautiful rock shaped like a halfman and you can
51:21
actually paddle upstream of it. There's kind of an Eddie there
51:25
and then you can stand on your kayak and climb into the rock
51:29
and pull on AZ drag from there. So I had one of my other Staffs
51:32
at the anchor behind me and me and this girl Lily, we're
51:35
pulling on the Z drag and you know, we've got like 3 feet of
51:39
rock we're standing on. So it's like you pull a tiny bit
51:41
and then you're like, and I don't even know if I did the Z
51:44
drag right. I'm like, I don't know if it's
51:46
even working, but we tell the guy to deflate the boat, which
51:50
you know, the hand signal for that is like.
51:57
And so he's deflating and he's deflating.
51:59
And the back of it, where he anchored it, it starts to roll
52:02
in sort of like, like the Wicked Witch of the West, the like shoe
52:06
rolling. And and it as it rolls in, the
52:10
current grabs the front and it starts to move.
52:12
And the thing just like skyrockets out of there
52:15
vertical, hits the current and swings out into the current.
52:20
Nobody on it. And the anchor, as soon as it
52:23
was taught, the whole anchor blows out.
52:25
So it turns out it's a balsa wood frame, which that's not a
52:29
thing. I don't know what that is.
52:30
Yeah. And so he tied it to a D ring,
52:34
just one, and the whole D ring came off, including the patch,
52:38
and it flew back at us and we ducked and covered for saving
52:42
our money makers. And, you know, the crap all blew
52:45
past us. And I was like, that was
52:49
horrifying. I need to figure out how to do
52:51
this better. Yeah, 'cause like, at the time,
52:55
it was my first rescue and I was doing the best I could.
52:57
And I was like, not thinking about what to do after the
53:00
rescue. I was like, we got the boat.
53:02
Uh oh. How do we get out of here?
53:05
Yeah. And so I think that rescue, I
53:09
mean, that's not an uncommon rescue on the Rogue as a
53:11
commercial guide. Like we see it on low water
53:13
years multiple times a year. But yeah, that one sort of
53:18
kicked my butt into gear. And I was like, OK, all the
53:20
information I needed to know for that is out there.
53:22
I should have known it. I should have been prepared.
53:25
And so I went and got prepared and then now I'm trying to make
53:28
sure my friends know what to do too, so that they can save me,
53:31
right? Yeah, I like to take risks I
53:33
like. To push it a little and those
53:34
people are the same. There's been people that have.
53:37
Lost their lives on Blossom in the same Yeah, there's sieves in
53:40
there. The the most recent people to
53:43
lose their lives are mostly out of inflatable kayaks.
53:45
And so for that reason we don't run inflatable kayaks through
53:47
the picket fence anymore because if you don't make the corner and
53:50
you hit it sideways, there's sieves under there.
53:52
So industry standard, none of the rogue Outfitters run IK is
53:55
there anymore. Yeah.
53:57
I think people's gearboats are commonly just so overloaded that
54:00
they can't make that cut, even though it'd be quite easy in a
54:02
boat like this. And so it's also a river that
54:05
attracts beginners. I think, you know, it's
54:08
classically overrated. People say the roads are class 4
54:10
because it has Mill Creek and Blossom, but like, if you
54:13
compare that to any other river in the region, like those would
54:16
be fours, they'd be threes. But the.
54:19
Consequences. At Blossom are pretty serious
54:22
and I think that, you know, everybody has to do it for their
54:26
first time at some point. I rode with my friend actually
54:30
through her first time through Blossom, and she missed the move
54:33
and we went over the picket fence and we went over it.
54:35
So. But yeah, you're here to tell
54:37
the tale. Happens.
54:38
Yeah, it does. Yeah.
54:40
I think that that's probably the most interesting story, too,
54:42
because everybody loves a good carnage, right?
54:45
Yeah. And they were the boat that was
54:47
wrapped. They were one boat trip.
54:49
Did they have other people? They had other people.
54:52
But what had? Happened is the man who was
54:54
rowing, it wasn't his boat. His friend had been like, I
54:58
don't feel comfortable rowing Blossom.
55:00
And so he had already run his boat through, walked back up and
55:03
done this boat. And so they had no more boat
55:05
upstream. Their whole party was like way
55:08
down at the bottom. So like, not in a good position
55:10
to help even if they'd wanted to and he'd already done it.
55:13
So theoretically he had experience in doing it, but was
55:17
also maybe a little tired, not in a boat.
55:19
And was it his boat that he hadn't?
55:20
Been rowing your? Electro What is this?
55:22
Is that pins? And clips how I use these, you
55:24
know, whatever. Yeah, and it was super
55:26
overloaded. Classic.
55:29
He's so lucky that. You showed up when you did and
55:32
were able to. I mean, he's he's alive, his
55:36
boats downstream and or I guess his buddy's boat is downstream
55:40
less on D ring. Yeah, yeah.
55:42
That's, you know, $100 patch. Yeah.
55:46
Awesome. Wow.
55:47
Yeah, that's. A great, great tale and what a
55:49
great way to then develop what has become essentially your
55:53
career and teaching others to boat safer.
55:58
I have a confession to. Make that just hit me because I
56:00
was thinking about it. I've only done the lower rogue
56:04
fully one time, but I've done I've done from Mariel out a
56:10
gazillion times. Yeah, she worked at Mariel.
56:12
For that makes a lot of sense or so, yeah.
56:14
So. We did the We'll have to change
56:16
that. I would like to yeah, yeah, go.
56:19
Pre permit season. I know my friend and Crystal is
56:22
putting together all women's preseason trip in April.
56:24
I don't give you all. Maybe, maybe that'd be.
56:28
Great try to arrange that. I know that rafting is something
56:31
that also my Sean, my Sean, he has expressed want to learn how
56:37
to be on the ORS and navigate a big boat.
56:41
So I'm hoping that like little Fire continues to where we're in
56:46
a financially good position to like he could hire.
56:50
Nicole for a rowing clinic and I do recommend that people don't
56:54
try to. Teach their significant other
56:55
how to row right it's. Well, I totally.
56:58
Escalate them. Stop telling me what to do.
57:00
Yeah, I can. Remember that I got divorced?
57:03
Yeah, well, I. Still don't.
57:05
You know, I don't have a lot of time on the oars.
57:07
I do have some hours but not not a lot.
57:10
And so I we've talked about doing like a rowing school and
57:15
do you want to row a little bit? Take outs right here at the
57:17
bridge, but you could hop on for a few minutes.
57:20
I'm fine I. Can give you some pointers.
57:22
Come on. I get it.
57:24
Go give it a go. All right.
57:27
You're with, you're with the. Teacher.
57:29
I know. I should.
57:30
I know. I was like.
57:31
OK, well, I say no. I say no.
57:34
It's a year. Of yes, yes.
57:40
And then next time, next. Time we float in my boat you can
57:43
row. Yes, I'm having some light.
57:47
Too. Cool.
57:50
And then? I know you primarily go bat like
57:52
you, you know, backwards. I love pushing, actually
57:57
pushing, pulling. Yeah, just.
57:58
Depends on. What haven't been?
58:00
What's needed? Or is it a minute this?
58:06
Is great. You look like you've.
58:07
Done it before. I actually grew up on the.
58:12
On the road, my dad's a big boater.
58:15
Nice big rafter but for. Many years.
58:16
We took his hard boat down, you know, his drift boat, aluminum
58:22
drift boat. And then he finally.
58:23
Got a? Cat And then we started about
58:28
and then we did the middle. Forget the salmon and some cool
58:31
stuff, but I was always passenger because I was young
58:35
so. I've seen some young people row
58:37
in the Rogue, like 12 year old girls who are on the road and
58:41
looking good doing it. Yeah, I was like in their own
58:43
boats. Nobody.
58:44
Else my greatest regret is that my parents.
58:46
Never took me rafting. I was like, we live right here.
58:49
How did we not go? Yeah, and I've been through.
58:52
The like swift water rescue. But like I said.
58:57
I never really. It's a partner thing too.
58:59
Like if your partner's really into something, you tend to kind
59:02
of gravitate towards like certain things, which Sean, like
59:05
I said, Sean has definitely gravitated towards river stuff
59:09
more. But we bike.
59:11
Yeah, we're big bikers biking. I think having a significant
59:15
other who does it with you allows you a lot more access
59:20
because you don't want to go solo.
59:22
And so if you can have someone you live with or or partnered
59:27
with as your second, it's just like a given that you can get
59:30
the trip together. Well, we can do it just the two
59:32
of us, 2 boats. And then once you're going and
59:35
you already have a plan, then it's easier to invite other
59:38
people instead of being like, well, I'd love to do the Rogue,
59:41
but I really need some people to share Shuttle with me.
59:43
Yeah, it makes shuttle. Logistics a lot easier.
59:45
Yeah, it's a lot easier. If you have more people, yeah,
59:47
Sean really likes. The river and he before we had
59:51
Roscoe, we did a lot of stand up paddle boarding like he's very
59:56
interested in doing like whitewater stand up paddle
59:58
boarding and he tried and that was really funny and he like
1:00:00
broke his tailbone. Not really.
1:00:02
That's not funny. Yeah.
1:00:05
Dun riffle. Dun ripple.
1:00:07
Riffle, riffle, riffle. It done.
1:00:09
Got riffled. Yeah.
1:00:10
And so that was pretty funny. But now that we have Roscoe,
1:00:14
too, and Roscoe's younger, he's like, maybe I should maybe we
1:00:18
should look into, like, actual big boating.
1:00:20
Your dad goes a lot like we could, you know?
1:00:23
Yeah, we can, Emily goes. Emily.
1:00:26
But anyway, so yeah. I when I.
1:00:31
Was dating a river guide quintessential Dating a river
1:00:35
guide? We didn't go through that fast.
1:00:37
Yeah. We did.
1:00:39
Some R twoing on the white salmon.
1:00:41
That was an experience. I've.
1:00:45
Really. Adopted R twoing as my
1:00:47
preferred. Yeah, it was fun.
1:00:50
It just didn't hard to We had it.
1:00:52
We had a lot of narrow. We had four.
1:00:55
We had four people. Yeah, I think R Ford.
1:00:58
R Ford. Yeah, we R Ford.
1:00:59
Yeah, it opens up narrow sections.
1:01:01
It makes gear logistics a lot easier.
1:01:04
If it's just boat and paddles and you just want to relax, you
1:01:07
just want to. Go.
1:01:09
Don't have to my. Arms are so weak.
1:01:12
Well, you're only using. Your arms, not your core.
1:01:14
Yeah, it's a full body. Yeah, it's just the waist.
1:01:19
Yeah, just keep my arms, I tell my students, pretend like your
1:01:22
arms are out in front of you in casts.
1:01:24
Your elbows are in casts. OK.
1:01:26
How are you going to row? You have to hinge at the waist,
1:01:28
right? Yeah.
1:01:29
You kind of yeah, you have to give it a little and then the
1:01:31
other thing I'll. Do is when people do that like
1:01:33
rowing in their armpits, I'll stand here and I'll put my hands
1:01:36
back so that your if your elbows hit my hands, I'm like, OK, your
1:01:39
arms are too far back. It's like a classic.
1:01:42
No one. If you've never had training,
1:01:44
for some reason people like to row, like in their armpit with
1:01:47
the chicken wings out. Yeah, stop that.
1:01:49
Figure out those end. Am I doing that?
1:01:51
Kind of. It's it's just your coat.
1:01:56
It's too poofy. It doesn't allow for the hinging
1:01:58
hubs. I love it.
1:02:02
Thank you. Nicole, for your, your knowledge
1:02:05
and your skills and your stories and for bringing us out on your
1:02:08
boat today, Our boat. Launch is on the left, exactly
1:02:14
under the bridge there. OK.
1:02:17
Cool, Heather, do. You want to ask our wrap up
1:02:19
questions? Yes, when your body expires from
1:02:24
this point of existence. Emily said it so much that I
1:02:29
remember it. How do you want to be
1:02:31
remembered? Well, I think.
1:02:33
I'm not as worried about being remembered as I am about just
1:02:36
like leaving a positive impact in general.
1:02:38
OK, it's OK if people forget me, right?
1:02:42
And then if you could give your younger self some advice, what
1:02:49
would you give your younger self?
1:02:53
Probably just to be easier. On my body, I think as I get
1:02:57
older just all my old injuries are kind of hurting and I would
1:03:02
be more careful and like take it a little slower and try not to
1:03:06
beat my back up so much. Maybe I can get a buddy to help
1:03:09
me lift that cooler. And what is your?
1:03:16
Favorite or most used outdoor gear or piece of equipment I
1:03:21
mean. Chapstick, the dry suit.
1:03:27
You gotta have the dry suit and this setup I've been really
1:03:31
stoked on. I got the Sawyer art.
1:03:33
Sawyer ores are local. So tar made me this raft.
1:03:37
And then the frame is from Class 5 Adventure gear in Idaho.
1:03:41
Jesse Fisher made it. And so this is like this is so
1:03:45
light. I can carry it by myself with
1:03:47
one arm. Wow.
1:03:48
So I'm so stoked on lightweight. Like I just want everything to
1:03:52
be light enough that I can carry it all solo.
1:03:55
I've never. Seen a frame like this with
1:03:57
these kinds of? Yeah.
1:03:59
So it doesn't need, it doesn't. Need a tool in order to adjust
1:04:03
anything. These just are like a bike seat
1:04:08
kind of thing and so like. This whole or tower?
1:04:10
Right. Can move back and forth.
1:04:12
I love. That.
1:04:16
I have an NRS. Frame that you know is modular
1:04:20
and can move around and make adjustments, but that's special
1:04:24
that's I'm allowed that too, it's just.
1:04:26
Heavy. That's why I don't use it.
1:04:27
Yeah, feel that. And what is your advice for or
1:04:38
recommendations for people getting outdoors in Southern
1:04:41
Oregon? I would say start with something
1:04:44
close to you that's accessible and build your community.
1:04:47
Awesome get around here. Good job.
1:04:52
Well, just. And.
1:04:54
If people want to find you and go boating with you or learn
1:04:58
from you, how can they find you if you want to be found?
1:05:02
I actually have my own. Website, and bear with me
1:05:05
because I'm not a website designer and I made it myself.
1:05:07
So there's really gold buttons and my contact info is on there.
1:05:12
I put up several courses annually in the spring which are
1:05:15
open to the public and then I also schedule private buses.
1:05:20
Yeah, I'm not. There was like a moment I wasn't
1:05:24
sure. I just like stayed right there.
1:05:27
For a minute, yeah, you were. You were.
1:05:29
Feeling the water you were like you were.
1:05:31
Adjusting your angle a. Long time good.
1:05:35
Job. Heather did it way to.
1:05:38
Go well, it's awesome. Thank you so much, Nicole.
1:05:41
We really appreciate you saying yes to coming out and spending
1:05:44
some time outside with us and sharing some of your stories.
1:05:47
And you all know what to do. I don't.
1:05:51
Well, yeah, well. Organized interview.
1:05:53
Thank you. Good timing.
1:05:55
Open your stake out. Yeah, wait, I like.
1:05:58
Logistics, yeah. We have refined.
1:06:00
Our craft, yeah, too. Yeah, Thanks.
1:06:03
Thanks for watching. Thank you.
1:06:05
Next week follow. Subscribe, like, share, tell
1:06:08
your friends comics and stay tuned socials.
1:06:13
OK, bye. I'm Emily.
1:06:14
That's Heather. Together we're go wildly.
1:06:18
That's a wrap on this. Episode of Go Wildly from the
1:06:21
bottom of our backpacks. Thank you for listening, we know
1:06:24
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1:06:31
Your support allows Go Wildly to reach new listeners and bring
1:06:35
more outdoor stories to the mic. Until next time, go wildly and
1:06:40
go outside.