Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Kier Gaines Talks Therapy, Dr. Cheyenne Bryant, Finding The Right Therapist, Cultural Competence + More

Transcript

INTERVIEW: Kier Gaines Talks Therapy, Dr. Cheyenne Bryant, Finding The Right Therapist, Cultural Competence + More · The Breakfast Club

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Every day clicks.
• 0:03
  Speaker 3: Up the Breakfast Club, you don't finish for y'all done?
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Yep, it's the world's most dangerous morning to show The
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Breakfast Club Charlamagne to God, DJ Nvy just hilarious, Envy
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and jets on here. But Laura LaRosa is and we
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: got a special guest in the building. Man, I have
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: been watching this brother's work for a long time. He's
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: got a new podcast called Learn the Hard Way.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: It's Care Games.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: Yes, sir, you pronounced it perfect.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, how are you, my brother?
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: I'm good. How y'all doing?
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Man less black and highly favored?
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: I know that's right.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Man.
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  Speaker 1: If you don't know who Care is, he's a mental
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: health advocate and he is a licensed therapist.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Feel it's very important to say that now.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: I feel like that's a hot topic at the moment
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: I would say so, well, you.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Know, I wanted to add, we're in an era where
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: social media has turned a lot of people into mental
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: health influence.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: For sure.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: How important is licensing when somebody is giving, you know,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: relationship or trauma advice to millions of people?
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: You know, I personally find it important to be licensed
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: for my so It's important because it makes sure that
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: it makes sure that I'm ethically sound, make sure that
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  Speaker 4: people are safe around me, make sure that I'm continuing
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  Speaker 4: all my education credits, make sure I'm getting all the training,
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: because it's one thing. You know, we got a lot
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: of therapeutic language, being slang about people calling you gas
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: light they're a narcissists, And we got all the words,
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: but people don't really know what happens next in terms
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: of healing, no solutions. Were just spending a problem we're
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: talking about a while, but not necessarily deeply. So for
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: me to be licensed, it make sure that if somebody
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: walks in the room and says, hey, man, you know.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: I feel like I'm gonna jump off the top of
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: the building to night. What you're gonna do next? What's
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: your next move? What's your next move? A man comes
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  Speaker 3: in and says, man, I'm feeling like hurting my wife.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: What you're gonna do? What's your next move?
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: All that psycho Bible doesn't help when you got to
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  Speaker 4: be in a room with somebody and feel your way
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  Speaker 4: around that person, have quality training to.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: Back that up.
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: So when we got all the words, but we don't
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: got any wisdom. That's like having a map with no
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: way points and no words on it. You'll know that
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: things are there, but you have no idea where you
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: are where to go.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Do audiences even understand the difference between a licensed therapist,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: a life coach or relationship expert, are a motivational speaker anymore?
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Has social media blurred all those.
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: I don't think so. Social media is not a place
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: for a dynamic nuance. So not only do people not know.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: I honestly don't think that people care.
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: And that's one of the things that I really hone
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: in on when I talk on my platforms because therapy.
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: Being a licensed clinician is a specific thing, and it's
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: a specific designation by the state that says that you
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  Speaker 4: passed all your exams and you're doing all these things
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  Speaker 4: you need to do to make sure that you're upholding
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: all the ethical principles of the craft. And that's that's
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: amazing when when people are hurting, sometimes they just want
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: to hear from somebody, But you got to hear from
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: somebody qualified and train and steeped in the knowledge to
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: know not just what everything is and what sounds good,
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: but what.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: Is the best practice to help move you forward in life.
• 2:59
  Speaker 5: I was when we were getting ready for did you
• 3:00
  Speaker 5: share our interview with doctor Shyon Bryant?
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: I saw clips, Okay, So.
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: When we were getting ready for that interview, I called
• 3:06
  Speaker 5: one of my friends. Her name is doctor Shonda Reynolds,
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: and she was saying that to me because I was
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: mentioning it. Yes, that's my sister, like we went to
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: high school together like all of that.
• 3:16
  Speaker 6: But yeah, she was.
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: She helped me prep for that interview because there was
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: so many different things that you have to go through.
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: It is right, But we were having a conversation about,
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: like there are studies about that EPPP test that excus
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  Speaker 5: differently to black people that are trying to be licensed
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: than others, and that's why some people don't go for
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: certain licenses or whatever, which is a different conversation doctor
• 3:35
  Speaker 5: Shyan and Bryant. But she was talking about just how
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: it's the conversation we're having with doctor Shan Bryant takes
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: away from the conversation we should be having about the
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: real issues that some people have getting licensed. And I
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: know your license as a therapist. I don't know if
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: you have anything that you've experienced when you were going
• 3:50
  Speaker 5: through your process.
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  Speaker 4: Not anything to that extent, but licensure is incredibly challenging
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: to get through. I don't think people understand how much schooling,
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: how many how many hours of practical and how many
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: hours of internship you have to undergo, and then.
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  Speaker 3: To test itself is difficult.
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  Speaker 4: And then the licensing board and then you have to
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  Speaker 4: sit for a certain number of direct and indirect hours,
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  Speaker 4: which means a therapist who is more experienced than you
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: sits in with you every week and you talk about
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: your sessions, what went well, didn't go well, And it
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: could be challenging for a number of reasons because sometimes
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: you can only you know, you rise to the level
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: of your help.
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  Speaker 3: If you don't have a credible supervision, it's.
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  Speaker 4: Going to dictate how thorough and how effective you are
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: as a therapist in the long run. But even with
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: doctor Seannah, she's psychologists psychologists is different than a licensed
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  Speaker 4: therapist psychologists as a scientist licens therapists is a practitioner.
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  Speaker 4: They're therapists who wann't psychologists, and they're psychologists who aren't therapists.
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  Speaker 3: It's incredibly nuanced and deep.
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  Speaker 4: So yeah, I think this conversation is important that we're
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: having about licensure and making sure that ethical guidelines are
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: held in attact. But there are so many other conversations
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: that happen on the inside of the public doesn't even
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: know about, Like what like how a lot of therapeutic
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: modalities are not really normed on black people.
• 5:11
  Speaker 6: Talk about that, Doctor Shannon talks about.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: That, Yeah, they're not normal on black people.
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  Speaker 4: When a lot of modalities steeped in psychology and they
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: take a group of people who they study, and the
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  Speaker 4: people who they study and weren't black, and there's this thing, man, man,
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: there's this thing in therapy that happens when people don't
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: have cultural competency.
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  Speaker 3: And that means like.
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  Speaker 4: You can come into the room and you can see
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  Speaker 4: a black man and then you can see like a
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  Speaker 4: South Pacific woman, and you'll say, oh, depression is depresson.
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna treat these people the same way. You might
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  Speaker 4: not honor the fact that where she's from, the hierarchy
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: in the family looks different, so she may have a
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: different reverence for her family. That might be that might
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: make it harder for her to say, nah dad, nah mom,
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  Speaker 4: I'm gonna do my own thing. I'm gonna move in
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  Speaker 4: my own direction. Being culturally opportunity is treating her knowing
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: having that in mind, knowing how her culture works and
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: how it affects the way she moves through the world.
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  Speaker 4: You may see a black man and think, oh, you know,
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: you're in therapy, I need you to talk about all
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: your problems, ignoring the fact that that black man has
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: lived experience with a medical system is not treated his
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  Speaker 4: ancestors very well. He walks in therapy skeptical rightfully so
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  Speaker 4: so cultural competency. He doesn't say, oh, man, you got
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  Speaker 4: these problems. You need to come into therapy and you
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  Speaker 4: need to talk to me because you need to be better.
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  Speaker 4: Cultural competency meets him where he is. It says, ah,
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  Speaker 4: I can see why you're skeptical. Let's take the first
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  Speaker 4: three sessions and get to know each other a little bit.
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  Speaker 4: Matter of fact, I'm gonna tell you a little bit
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  Speaker 4: more about myself, because what we learn with black therapists
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  Speaker 4: have learned is we get taught when you're in a
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  Speaker 4: session with somebody, you don't do no self disclosure. It's
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: not about self disclosure, and you're not supposed to talk
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: about yourself, which is right to a degree, But when
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: you're in a room with black and brown people, especially
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: black and brown men, you're gonna expect him to give
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  Speaker 4: all that up and you don't say anything about yourself.
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  Speaker 3: That's not gonna work.
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  Speaker 4: The robotic they cut off wall of a therapist is
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  Speaker 4: a motif that don't work for black men, don't work
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  Speaker 4: for black people, And if you don't have cultural competency,
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  Speaker 4: you would not know that.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: You know what's interesting.
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  Speaker 1: The first time I ever started doing therapy, I specifically
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: said I didn't want somebody culturally competent. I wanted somebody
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  Speaker 1: that was had no idea about our experiences, what we
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: go through, what I may be going through, because I
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: just wanted to tell them what I was dealing with,
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  Speaker 1: and I just wanted them to come from like a
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: perspective of nobiased blank slate, just a blank slate. It's
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: so it's funny you said, you say specific because I
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: was looking for an Asian woman specifically, specifically, that's very specific.
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  Speaker 1: Why Asian woman? Because I just was trying to find
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  Speaker 1: like somebody that I felt like didn't know our experience
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  Speaker 1: at all, in no way, shape or form.
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  Speaker 2: Didn't find one.
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  Speaker 1: I just want you to know that I ended up
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: with a white woman, and I was with her for
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: a couple of years and she was good. But I
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: do feel like what really really got me to that
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  Speaker 1: next level was a culturally competent black man.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it depends.
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  Speaker 4: A question that floats about a lot is do black
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: people need black therapists? And I always say it depends.
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: It's not so much about the lived experience of the therapist.
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: It's about the aptitude of the therapist. Number one, how
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: comfortable you aren't with them. You know, the most effective
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: therapist I ever had, she was a sixty five year
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: old white woman.
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  Speaker 3: We ain't had nothing in common, nothing in common, but.
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: The way that she moved in that space, it just
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: so happened to bounce with the way that I understand,
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: the way that I absorb information, the way that I
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: take instruction. So for me, her race and her gender
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: wasn't as important in order for me to feel comfortable.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: But that ain't everybody's story.
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: And if you do need somebody that looks like you
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: to be comfortable, then yeah, that's absolutely fine. It's more
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: so the effectiveness of the therapist is going to be contingent,
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: probably a little bit more on what you find acceptable
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: to share all your information with where you feel nice
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: and comfy in the session, versus some standard rule of
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: law that just plies across the board.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: How did you how'd you get here? Black man? Like?
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: How did you, you know, become the kere of games
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: that we know? Because I remember you from it was
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: a video that went viral. I don't even know how.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: I remember how long ago that was.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: And I think it was you and your me holding
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: my baby, yeah, yeah, yeah, And.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: I just thought it was just a powerful video of
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: a black man, you know, expressing his love for his daughter,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: but also talking about the type of man and the
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: father and husband he wanted to be.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: It just touched me as as a father and husband.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: But I didn't know you would actually become a licensed therapist.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: Were you always on that journey? What was at the time?
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to think.
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: I started off as a family vlog on YouTube. So
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: the video of nobody knows it went crazy viral, But
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: it's me walking in the street holding my baby. And
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: at the time, we had just got monetized, I had
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: just proposed to my girl, and we put the engagement
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: video up there on YouTube and it was it started
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: doing numbers, so we got we got a few little
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: coins from that, We got monetized.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: We feeling good about ourselves.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: Not a lot of people was watching the vlog before
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: that at all, just our family members. And at the
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: end of the blog, I was doing an episode. I
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: didn't want them to take my money because I was
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: at a cookout and he was playing music, and if
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: you play music on YouTube.
• 10:06
  Speaker 6: They take your money.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: They're gonna snatch a little money.
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: So I was like, all right, I'm gonna just go
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: and walk and close out the vlog, and I took
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: my baby with me, and.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: It's just I guess it was just a moment, a
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: stream of consciousness.
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: And basically in the video, what I was saying is
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: I know y'all see me up here, and it got
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: all the visuals.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: You see me with my girl and my baby and
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: we hugging and we loving each other and all that.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: But if you want a family.
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: I suggest, bro, you go and see somebody about the
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: things you've been through in your life, because if you don't,
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: you will have all of this and you'll never be happy.
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: And the first time I posted it on Instagram, matter
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: of fact, my wife shout out to my wife.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: Know ain'my man. I played it for her and I said, Babe,
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: I think I'm talking too much. I'm a black man
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: in America.
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: I'm not used to anybody actually wanting to hear the
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: way that I feel. So I was like, man, I'm
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: rapping too much. Nobody care about this. She's like, babe,
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: if you don't post that right now, So I posted
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: it on It did nothing, Nobody cared, and I reposted
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: it a few months later with some music and subtitles.
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: And I was right around the time George Floyd got killed,
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: so I think the world was in a really unique
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: place to hear and see black men in a different way.
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: And I remember you reposted it, and when I saw
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: you in person, I thank you for that, because you
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: and Viola Davis and it was a lot of y'all
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: that really helped elevate that video. And then all the
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: information came in and all the people came in, and
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: we started getting all these offers for management, and I
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: ended up starting my I had started my counseling program
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: around that time, so I was just in the first year,
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: and I think it was all dawning on me. I
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: also had just started therapy, and I was I think
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: I was in a good space to start telling people
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: what I experienced was that, Oh damn, don't give me
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: the line my oldest was it was right, it was
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: before the pandemic. Man, it had to be like twenty year,
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: twenty eighteen, nineteen eighteen, probably yeah, yeah, so yeah. And
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: then after I got my life, censure and everything, I started.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: Doing more mental health content.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: What responsibility comes with speaking on trauma publicly when people
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: may treat your words like clinical guy, damn.
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: That's a good question. It's a lot of responsibility. First off,
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: you have to know what you're talking about. I think
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: it's easy to just say trauma because it's a word
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: that captures the awareness and imagination of people, and it's
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: easy to make people feel victimized and talk about their
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: lowest points and them say, yes, yes, I don't know how.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: You do it. Long which fingers is it? Okay? I
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: always do the point and I get it wrong. This
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: is a person this okay?
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: All right, So it's the middle of giant like, they'll
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: give you all of this, but you're not actually yeah, yeah.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: I'll be around the girls.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: I'm a girl. I'm a girl.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: Dad so I'm around the girls by default, so they'll
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: give you all of that, but like.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: How will you help and move people through it?
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: We when in terms of mental health and wellness for
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: so long, we've been stuck in this awareness posture.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: You gotta be you gotta be aware. It's okay to
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: not be okay.
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: We've been there for a very long time, and I
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: think it's time that we move from awareness, we drive
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: past that and moving the actual action.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Me and my girl Debbie Brown talk about dev the homie.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: Man.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she loves you.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love her too.
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: Man, she she speaks lifing to me always made me
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: feel a little warm and fuzzy.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: Man, never you know what to say.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: But I mean that's because we you know, we're planning,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: you know, the Mental Wealth Export this year, and you
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: know Debbie's leading all of that, and that's literally what
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: the Mental health Export is going to be focused on.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: We passed awareness, Yeah, talking about eradicating this thing when
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: everything we've done that, we got to talk about straight solution.
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, what's next? That's right, it's the is. We talked
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: about the what. Now we're talking about the why and
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: the how, and that is important. I said it on
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: threas the other days. It's a difference between spinning your
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: wheels and moving forward. The awareness conversation is spending the wheels.
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: The what to do next conversation is actually gonna move
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: us progressively forward.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, but the the you know, having a conversation
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: about away and is still important.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's very important, and it's very important.
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: But when you have the conversation about awareness to the
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: elimination of having a conversation about what to do next,
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: it does start to chip away at how important it is.
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: It's always going to be paramount, but something has to
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: come after that. You can't just sit and bask in
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: the warmth of saying, yeah, this is what we need
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: to know. Thank you, bro, this is what we need
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: to know. This is what we need to be aware of.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: What does it materialize into?
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: You know, I think too, But for a lot of
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: people it's like, even if you know you need to
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: do something, it's like figuring out who is the person?
• 14:31
  Speaker 6: Like where do you go? How do you even start?
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: Like I talk to people all the time about like
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: even finding therapists, it's like you're trying people out. It's
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: like random recommendation, like it is but it gets to
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: a point sometimes where it's shut up.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, it's all right, I got you focused, right, Yeah,
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: it's cool.
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: The conversation about figuring out the therapist, it can be
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: kind of not not it doesn't scare you, but it's
• 14:57
  Speaker 5: just it's such a task trying to the right fit
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: that sometimes even though you know you need to do it,
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: and so it's not as easy for some people.
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: Know, and I hate when we frame it as an
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: easy thing to do. Just all you need to do
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: is find the right therapist. It's just like dating. Finding
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: a therapist is different than finding a doctor, because I
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: don't care about my doctor's bad side.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: Man.
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: Sometimes, if you're an effective doctor that can spot something
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: that I need to see, or you give me all
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: my panels and all my results, you know, I will
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: take the how good you are and what I need
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: you to do above your bad side man and your attitude.
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: It don't work like that with therapists. If you throw
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: me off with your attitude, it ain't gonna work. If
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: you say the wrong thing at the wrong time, it
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: ain't gonna work. And from this angle, which I completely
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: understand and endorsed, I fired many a therapist before because
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: it just it wasn't a good fit of then feel right.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: But as a therapist you have a very.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: Small marginal era sometimes and if you don't sometimes I
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: can't treat you until I know who you are. I
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: take the first couple of sessions just getting to know you.
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: Who your mama, how she treats you. What did love
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: look like in your house?
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: What are your relations like? Yeah, the romantic ones, okay,
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: now in the now romantic ones? Who are your friends?
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: How do you contextualize in view friendship? How do you
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: see the world. Have you been victimized? How do you
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: see being a victim? Is it something that happened to
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: you or is it something that you use? And where's
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: a badge honor? Or is it something in the middle.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: How can I do anything for you if I don't
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: know you?
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: And that's why we've really started a podcast learn a
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: hard way because talking to a therapist is hard.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: I'll admit it. I'll admit it, even as a therapist.
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: Talk to a therapist can be hard and intimidating, but
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: listening to a conversation on a podcast it's not. And
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: while I'm not your therapist, I can stand in a gap.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: I'm a therapist.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: I can still give you things to.
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: Think about, still help widen your aperture on how you
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: see yourself and how you see your place in the world,
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: and just give you something to you on that's not
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: just going to make you a different person, but try
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: to make you a better person.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: I want to ask you.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: I love what you said about you know, finding a
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: therapist is like dating, right.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not gonna talk about the conversation. Just shut up.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: If you want to talk about it real bad.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: You had three and four therapists in the past, yes,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: trying them all and you see three and four at
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: one time?
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: And should you label them like main eater husband? You
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: know what I mean?
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: Is egregious, agreeous?
• 17:19
  Speaker 6: What more therapeutic term?
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: Wait?
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Moving on?
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: Okay, okay, When you were figuring out your therapist, right,
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: and you had like multiple were you going to multiple
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: at a time or one at a time because you
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: had you got to pay for all?
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: They be quiet.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: One so treated like they to an extent depending on
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: how you date. I would say it was one at
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: a time, just because I wanted to give them all
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: a fair shot to see how they would work.
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: But you were seeking your therapists intentionally. You weren't just
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: going through a bunch of therapists because somebody told us the.
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: Thing to do.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: Okay, what conversation do we have?
• 17:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah, shut up.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: About No, I wasn't running through therapists.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: The therapist out Okay, nah nah.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: Nah, I wasn't. I wasn't running through therapists were reckless, abandoned.
• 18:12
  Speaker 6: How did you know that?
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: Like, if a therapist is something that turned you off,
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: did you like be like, y'all, I'm out.
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: So before I was a therapist, yes, I would go
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: therapists all the time, because it's uncomfortable to tell someone
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: there's a power dynamic that exists in the room when
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: you're a therapist, and it's uncomfortable to tell somebody like, hey,
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: I don't like the way you're doing this, can we
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: change it?
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: People don't even do that with their partners sometimes, you know.
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: So before I was a therapist, yeah, I probably just
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: ghost them. A lot of therapists I had, they get
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: weird when they know I'm a therapist, when no, I'm
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: a person on social media. A lot of therapists get
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: weird with black men, and I know that's not it's
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: not super in style in Vogue to say, but it's true.
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: You know, they have a very from my experience, have
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: a very low perception of black men. So when I
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: walk in and you know, I'm married and I got
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: a career and I got my kids going and everything,
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: and they like, we're so proud of you black man,
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: I'm like, hey, stop clapping for me and listen to me.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: I still need help. You're not listening. So there was
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: that piece.
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: But now that I am a therapist, I will stop
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: them and say, hey, I don't feel.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: Like this is as effective as I needed to be.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: Can we talk about it?
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: Because even my clients, we have sessions where we talk
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: about our relationship. Check in, what are we You don't
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: see what we're doing right now?
• 19:26
  Speaker 6: It really is like dating.
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: It's very much like it's such a personal relationship because
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: I know all your business and I hold it right here,
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: it doesn't leave anywhere. I know your mama, I know
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: your relationship with your mama. I know why you do
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: the things you do. There are things you told me
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: that you have never even said out loud by yourself.
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: So we take those things and we don't judge you
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: about them, not at all.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: We don't judge you about them.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: That's I don't think you should have multiple at one time.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: You know, it depends, It depends on what kind of therapist.
• 19:54
  Speaker 6: It is, depending on where you are in your life too,
• 19:57
  Speaker 6: what you're dealing with life.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Because I'm sharing so much of your.
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: Well with some people, that's not an issue. I will
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: say this. I have two types of therapists. So I
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: have a talk therapist and I have a semantic therapist.
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: And my semantic therapist is more so about movement in
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: the body and where you hold your charuma in your body.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: She told me something dope.
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: She says, yeah, she said, because I lost my mom
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: when I was eighteen, and thank you, thank you, thank you,
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: thank you. And sometimes there's an absence that I feel
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: that I can't put my finger on.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: And she says, where do you feel your pain in
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: your body? And I said, I feel it in my chest.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: And she says, whenever you feel it, gently rub your
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: chest because that's a part of your body that's longing
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: for gentle touch that it won't get anywhere else.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: It's like, damn you good.
• 20:39
  Speaker 6: I didn't even know that that was a type of therapy.
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: Like, not everything can be solved with talk therapy. You
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: gotta hit you gotta hit that problem from all angles.
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: Sometimes I'm gonna be honest, and I mean, no, I haven't.
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: I'm about to say something that's like very honest, is
• 20:54
  Speaker 5: what I'm saying. I have been lying the whole time.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: Okay, let's go.
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: So like I have therapist friends like trying to doctor
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: shying to write page doctor showne. But because she's my friend,
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: I don't really like there's kind of like a boundary separation,
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: but we still talk through things like boundary Like.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: She's not trying to overthrapize you.
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: Yes, like she can't because like she's known me for
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: almost like my whole life. But like sitting and really
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: having this conversation with you and knowing her and knowing
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: that she's an influencer in the space, you're an influencer
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: in the space. It kind of makes me sad for
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: y'all a little bit because there's so many other people
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: that are in this space that with platforms that they're
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: not giving it up like y'all giving it up, and
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: people really need this stuff. Like I'm sitting here and
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: I'm like, I didn't even know that that was a thing,
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: and you've probably talked about this online TikTok somewhere, but like,
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: we get clouded with so much other stuff that we
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: click because of what the algorithm and bids or how
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: many views or whatever, and.
• 21:42
  Speaker 6: It's pushed to you.
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: It has to be tough in that space for y'all, Like,
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: because I'm sitting here, like, dang, I feel bad that
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: y'all got so much noise because people need to hear
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: this stuff.
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: They do, and it's hard to get this out in
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: short form content. A lot of therapists been getting smoke
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: liately online because they're attempting to unpack very complic topics
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: and short form content. Short farm content is meant to
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: be pungy, and even I've been man.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: I post a lot of my videos just me.
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: In the kitchen talking about concepts that people thought about
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: but maybe you have not been able to put words to.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: And long form content has really helped me, like the
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: pod I just wrote my debut book.
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: It All Starts when You Do, And in the book,
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: it's a collection of all these things I do in
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: therapy and all these ways I move people toward healing,
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: and I can't express that in short form there's just
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: not enough time. There's not enough bandwidth online for people
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: to sit for me to unpack something that's going to
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: take four minutes. And if I take a four minute
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: explanation and I to steal it down into twenty five seconds,
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: I'm going to lose a lot of the context. It's
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: not going to be it's helpful, it's not going to
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: be it's useful of a tool for you to wield around.
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean, you're right, but everybody don't.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: Do it the same.
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: But how do you protect And this is not a
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: shot at doctor Shan and Brian, but I've been seeing
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: a lot of people black therapists talk about the danger
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: and the way that we're having a conversation because of
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: some of the pushback she's getting. How do you protect
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: the people you love, like us, your community from those
• 23:06
  Speaker 5: dangers that people are pointing at if that's not possible, Like.
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: When they're talking about I swear to God, I was
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: going to ask that thing question.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: I want to know exactly what the danger is that
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: people think, doctor Seyan Bryant.
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: So here's what I see people pointing out. This is
• 23:21
  Speaker 5: not my own personal thoughts are feelings. So I see
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: people pointing out the fact that it's dangerous when she
• 23:25
  Speaker 5: talks about licensing and being able to practice without being
• 23:27
  Speaker 5: licensed because of the ethics thing, the whole conversation about
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: the amount of schooling that she has or does not have,
• 23:34
  Speaker 5: even the dissertation conversation. I'm thinking, Okay, people just want
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: to see that because it's proof of something. And then
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: I saw a breakdown of a woman who's like, no,
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: because of the hours of research and whatever whatever it
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: goes into, here's what she can lean on when her
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: own personal experience comes into play, but also just when
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: it comes to her being therapist or psychiatrist. There's a
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: difference that people are now confusing because they are legend
• 23:57
  Speaker 5: that she was going by one title and then change that.
• 23:59
  Speaker 6: Those are all the things I'm seeing people.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Put what long question Lorosa is trying to shut up?
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Can somebody give genuinely helpful emotional advice without being licensed
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: or does lack of licensing automatically create danger.
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: I think anybody can talk about their own experiences. I
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: think anybody can talk about their own trauma. I think
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: that you can preach from the lens of what you
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: know and what you've experienced. Now when you begin to
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: give advice to people, and people are beginning to take
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: that advice apply to their own lives and start to
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: move throughout their communities and families, there is a duty
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: to one know what you're talking about and to represent
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: yourself appropriately. When before I have my full license, I
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: had my provisional, And when you got your provisional, it
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: just means that you can't.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: Practice by yourself. You got to have a big therapist
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: look over everything you do.
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: Sometimes sit in your sessions and you got to tell
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: people to begin in a session like, hey, i have
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: a provisional license and I'm under the supervision of doctor whoever,
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: just to let.
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: You know I was in the hospital.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: Sometimes, yeah, they have to let you know. You have
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: to represent yourself appropriately. So I think the danger comes
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: in where people are one misrepresenting themselves not saying that's
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: what she's doing. I think the story is just starting.
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: I think this is about to be more will be
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: uncovered as time goes on. But I think you have
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: a duty to one represent yourself appropriately and to speak
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: to what you know about. There's sometimes people come in
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: my sessions and they have specific conditions or experiences.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: It's not in my therapeutic willhouse.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: I don't know about that, but I know a good
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: therapist that does, and I'll refer you out. Oh well,
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: it's not turning them away, it's referring them to a
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: therapist that can better help them.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: If you go to an oncologist who's a cancer doctor
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: and you ask them about the bone spurs in your feet,
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: he's gonna look at you like, hey, I don't know
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: a lot about that. That's not within my professional realm
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: of expertise. Let me send you to somebody who is
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: more knowledgeable.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: About that thing.
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: So is there in your work right a therapist and psychologist?
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: Are we not happy?
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: Then that to a certain extent that doctor Shyanne is
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: having these conversations because it's making everybody learn within it.
• 26:09
  Speaker 6: So why are people so upset?
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: I think there's a value in learning about a process.
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: I think that people who are licensed are upset because
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: being a therapist is already tough, and it's already it's
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: a field that's.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: Very much guided.
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: I know, I keep saying ethics, but it's guided by
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: very strict ethics of what you can and can't do,
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: what you got the duty to report, Like they can
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: call you up to court and take all of your
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: notes and it can be used as evidence against somebody
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: or evidence for somebody. So it's really important that you
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: maintain the fidelity of the field. And I think when
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: the fidelity of the field appears to be compromised, people
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: speak out like black folk are a really vulnerable population,
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: especially right now. And if you are again not saying
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: this is what she's doing, but if you are a
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: person who appears to be practicing and maybe not being
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: completely clear about how it is you came about your
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: licenses or how you came about however you you know,
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: you signify yourself, whether it be doctor, whether you be
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: a psychologist, a psychiatrist, whatever. There's a danger in giving
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: people misinformation or you can cause harm within a session.
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: It's so easy imagine some imagine a woman who is
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: postpartum and instead of knowing how to treat a woman
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: who is postpartum and knowing how she identifies racially, ethnically, religiously,
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: and how those things tie back into who she is
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: and what her family structure looks like, and you having
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: an outermost shale of good training to know how to
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: handle that situation, you could tell her something that could
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: be harmful, especially if you're coming from your own experience
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: which is different than hers.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: Now you're not just.
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: Guiding somebody through a therapeutic journey, you're projecting.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: At what point does I guess inspirational content become unethical?
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Of audio is mistaken for therapy.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: I think where you don't make it clear that it's
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: not therapy.
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: And in my podcast, in the very beginning, I say, hey, y'all,
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: I'm a therapist, but I'm not your therapist. We cool,
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: and I love being here for y'all, and I'll standing
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: in the gap seven days a week, but I'm.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: Not your therapist.
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: And if you are having trouble with these things, you
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: need to seek the help of a license and qualified professional.
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: You know, when you start telling people what to do
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: and they start taking your advice, I think you take
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: on some responsibility for what you say. And we live
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: in an attention economy. It's like, hey, look at me.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: I'm going to say the most outrageous thing or the
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: thing that feels most resonant in order for people to
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: come in and.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: Vibrate with me. Hey, you come look at me.
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: Hey, you know, be a part of my audience. I
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: don't know what that culminates into, but I think it
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: validates a lot of people's humanity to be able to
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: have folks comment and respond and you know, give them
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: these joints. Damn Lauren one more time, middle finger A right.
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: Give it feels good, but it's not necessarily helpful the folks.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: You know what scares me therapists creating content because I
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: don't want to say becoming creative, because I don't think
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: that they're becoming I think they're creating content because they're
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: intentionally trying to help people. But I think some therapists
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: unintentionally become emotionally dependent on their audience.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: I can see how that can happen. I mean therapists.
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: I tell people all the time, Bro, it's just the job.
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: It is just the job that I'm qualified to do.
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: It's no different than any job. And being a therapist
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: and having all this therapeutic knowledge, and we talk about
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: this on the pod. It does not exonerate me from
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: the human experience. I gotta I got a wife and
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: two kids. You don't think I get mad at my kids.
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: You don't think I worry, you know, you don't think
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: I got money concerns. I mean, Charlomagne doesn't have money concerns.
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: But you don't think it's crazy, don't Charlamagne. We don't
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: have to do this anyone, Look at you. I'm just
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: I'm just maintain. I contact a lot that they're going
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: to start.
• 29:59
  Speaker 6: Halfway through the imagine with the rest of.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: His year of the class.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: I'm sure good.
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm happy for you legitimately, but even there, like,
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: no matter what your financial situation is, it doesn't mean
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: that you don't have the right to be upset or
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: dissatisfied with parts of your life. You can still have
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: a bad day being a billionaire like you are, you know,
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: but yeah, it's it's I still feel the full range
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: of human emotions and still have to navigate it.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: So yeah, therapists are just.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: People and and creators are no different than anyone else.
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: Or therapists will create. There's no different than anyone else.
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: I want to feel good, I want to feel validated.
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: I want to feel like people think I'm smart and capable.
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: I just think the way you go about that needs
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: to be very intentional so that you don't make a
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: fool of yourself.
• 30:50
  Speaker 6: What's wrong?
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: What's wrong with therapists that like, white people upset when
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: therapists are honest about the fact that, like they also
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: want to make money, like they want to be able
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: to sell a book, they want to be able to
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: make money off engagement or you know, like, why do
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: people get upset when you say that?
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: I think it's cool. I don't know.
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: I was about to say, well, the insurancing the conversation
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: another doctor Bryant conversation that was sparked That's why I
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: don't know whatever the insurance conversation is. Like doctor Shyon
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: Bryant was saying that she was she didn't do certain
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: licensing because of the certain the way you have to
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: build things and you have to diagnose people. But I've
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: been saying, therapists have conversations about you can still build
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: with prior to getting a license or something.
• 31:30
  Speaker 6: Can you clarify that.
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: I don't know what she said directly, but in terms
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: of billing to insurance, no, I don't what did she say.
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: It was something about billing and licensure.
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, So she was basically saying because they're talking about
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: the fact that she isn't licensed, and she was saying
• 31:48
  Speaker 5: that there are certain things you have to do when
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: you are licensed, like you the way that you're billing works,
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: and like the payoffs, which I've heard from out that
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: there are other people And she was talking about how
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: on the Joe Butting podcast she said, you have to
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: diagnose people, uh, within a certain amount of time with
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: certain things based on to keep up like licenses and
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: be able to build something somewhere. I'm probably saying that wrong,
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: but it was something about diagnosing as well.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: I don't think I have the quarter it on me
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: to say. Okay. Recently addressed her licensing and billing practices,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: calling significant debate online the Bobbie Or, She stated that
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: she no longer practices under a license, opting instead to
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: work in private practice with clients paying out of pocket.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: She stated that a license is primarily necessary only for
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: billing insurance. She suggested that many clients prefer to pay
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: out of pocket to avoid having a formal diagnosis on
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: their record, a requirement for insurance billing.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't. I don't know that to be true.
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: But if that is true for her, why are people
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: upset about that? Like if she's saying, I don't want
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: to have to diagnose you, and.
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: I I don't think it's not necessarily it's not true
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: for her. I'll say this, and you know, listen, I
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: got I got too much business to be to be
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: worried about anybody else's. But I do want to I
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: do want to clarify. I don't think that it's just
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: not true for her. I think that's not the way
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: the practice goes. That's not the way insurance and billing goals.
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: And I think it's more so wanting to clarify the
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: way that it works so that when people are out
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: here seeking therapy, they're doing so with knowledge of who's
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: safe to be around and who's not. I think the
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: bigger issue is and I can't speak for all therapists,
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: but I can speak for myself. When people sit in
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: a room with me, sometimes we're undoing the work of
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: people who they saw, who they thought were qualified and competent,
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: who were not. And man, you think, and let's take
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: it back to dating. You know how you can sit
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: across the table from somebody you like and you want
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: to love this person, You want to love them so bad,
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: but the person that they were with before you did
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: so much of them that it changed who they are.
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: And now it's skeptical about the relationship. Therapy is the
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: same way, but it's not just one therapist that they
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: might have seen before. It was a person before that
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: and a person before that. And you're in a session
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: not just hoping them bill. You're trying to help folk
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: get back to zero. And nobody is in this profession
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: for the money. The money ain't that good. The money
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: is not that good for you to be in it
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: for the money. We in it for the people. We
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: in it to help people heal. So when your job
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: and your central focus is to help people heal, but
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: you got to spend four months walking back the work
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: of other people, I think that bothers a lot of clinicians,
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: and I think misrepresentation of the field bothers a lot
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: of clinicians.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: But no, that's that's not the way I understand it
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: to work at all.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: But what's the healthiest way for audiences to consume self
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: help content without replacing actual therapy, or accountability or just
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: the real life work.
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: I think I think understanding the difference between something that's
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: therapy and something that's therapeutic.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Ooh, I like that by this stuff on social media's therapeutic,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: it can.
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: Be therapy got that music under it, but it's all
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: the sad music and the music like because it's ment
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: to strike an emotional nerve. And I know we're human beings,
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: but we're human feelings. We feel everything. Our political decisions,
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: our relational decisions a lot of times based on emotion.
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: That's what separates us from a lot of other animals.
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: So yeah, I think it's understanding the difference between something
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: that's therapy and something that's therapeutic. Going to the gym
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: is amazing. You hear brother say this all the time. Man, Hey,
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: the gym is my therapy. No, no, no, the gym
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: is therapeutic. The gem is not therapy.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: Man.
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: Music is my therapy. No no, no. Music is therapeutic.
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: It's not therapy. Therapeutic is something that helps you feel better,
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: It helps you cope, It helps you maybe modulate some
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: of the things that are going on on the inside.
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: Probably helps you put some words to feelings. Some people
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: have a hard time access in tears, so you listen
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: to a said song and it allows you to cry.
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: That's very therapeutic. Therapyat is a guided, specific journey with
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: a qualified professional. It's not just one singular thing.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: You do.
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: I always tell my clients the way it works is,
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: and we talk about this on the pod and about
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: it in my book too. You go all into the
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: world and you deal with things, and then you come
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: back and we talk about it, and then we okay,
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: well that didn't work, so let's fix this and tweat this.
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: What did you say when they say that? Okay, well,
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: what did you take away from that conversation? All right,
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: let's tweet this, let's tweak that, let's tweet this, let's
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: tweet this. I go back out in the world and
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: see how it works. You go back in the world
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: and you try it, and then you come back. That
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: didn't work. Okay, what did work that? Okay, let's take
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: this away and replace it with that. And we constantly,
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: like Cat Williams say, you try and shit and try
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: and shit and it don't work. You try andshit and
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: transhit and it don't work. You try and shit and
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: transh it and you don't work it. Therapy is in
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: the session, is not where the real work is done.
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: That's where the tune up happens. In the real world
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: is when the work is done, when those things stress
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: you out and make you want to lash out and
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: make you feel insecure when they test you at your
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: deepest level. That's where the work is done. When you
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: choose to move differently, when you choose to respond differently,
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: when you choose to ignore things, when you choose to
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: lean into a new relationship, when you can better decipher
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: for what feels good but it's not helpful, versus what's
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: helpful but don't necessarily feel good, and you can lean
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: into the thing that's more oriented to your long term
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: self sustainability than the thing that gives you the warm
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: and fuzzies, what's going to leave you hind dry at
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: the end of the day. So that's that's how therapy works.
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: But therapy is tough because you don't get to see
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: it happen. We got shows now, like a couple's Counseling,
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: a couple's therapy with a woman.
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: I think her name is Laurna, I can't remember. Yeah,
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: it's very nice lady.
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: You know, she sits with couples and they go through
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: a season. I think she's really good at what she does.
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: She don't do therapy like I do therapy. My therapy
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: session sound like this. It's a conversation. I dress like this. Yeah,
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: I dress like this. I'm going to show up to
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: the session my whole self, and I'm invite you to
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: do the same.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: That's what my guy Elli.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Elliot speaks right. Yeah, he's dope. Man, He's incredible.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: He's incredible.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, I love Elliott because he focuses on solution
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: focused therapy.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: He's a clinician's clinician.
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: Man.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: I looked at him.
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: I look up to him, like him and doctor Roqueill Martin,
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: And these are clinicians, clinicians. These are the people your
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: therapists come looking forward to get inspiration and guidance.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you said something earlier man, that I've been saying
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: just about topics in general. I feel like social media
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: isn't the place that have these nuanced conversations, as much
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: as people want social media to be, you know, this
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: town square where we can all discuss these complex issues.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: We can't. Things are not black and white, they're not
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: just simply right and wrong.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Like, there's a lot of nuance to it. That's why
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: I think things like podcasts are important. That's why I
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: think things like books are important. Do you feel like
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: people in the mental health space may be doing themselves
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: a disservice by trying to take this content and just
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: throw it out in a minute or two.
• 38:43
  Speaker 6: That's what I was saying Earlierbout saying I feel bad
• 38:45
  Speaker 6: for you.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: I don't even like calling it content, you know, I mean,
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: I guess, but it is content.
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: I think it works when it works, and it doesn't
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: when it doesn't. How elkse will people get it? You know,
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: therapy is or just a mental health feeld does a
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: really good job of talking about the issue.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: But sometimes we can talk over people's heads.
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: We can start saying, oh, you have an access to
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: diagnosis with the group B and the marginal propensity and
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: the cold is.
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: It's see a herd was playing B. I gotta go
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: get a shot. Can you say something about playing B?
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Now I missed that.
• 39:20
  Speaker 6: You said what you say?
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: What you say?
• 39:22
  Speaker 6: You said something about access.
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: Plan B, group access B access. No, I said access,
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: I said access to group B.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, I told you, I told you the other day.
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: We're not judging that. We're not judging. We're not judging.
• 39:40
  Speaker 6: You gotta judge me. I'm good over here.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: I judging what I heard what I no, that's not
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: what I said. No, But it's God, reminded her it's therapist.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Make sure.
• 39:52
  Speaker 6: What I don't know he is?
• 39:54
  Speaker 5: I just got I would apologize for him, but I think,
• 39:56
  Speaker 5: you know, he's ridiculous all the time in real life.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: We'll continue.
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: I don't remember what I was talking about that talking
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: other people's heads. Oh yeah, we had. We can have
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: a tendency to talk over people says. But the short
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: form content makes things more relatable. But when it misses,
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: it misses, you know, So I think it's worth it
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: to have it out there. I just hope that people
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: move with more intentionality when we're talking.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: About it, and a lot of it may bore you
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: to death.
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: I can look through the DSM five and tell you
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: the nine to twelve criteria pieces that I look for
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: when I'm diagnosed to somebody with depression. People don't care,
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: we do not care. I don't feel good. I want
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: to feel better. Give me, give me short, snackable, bite
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: sized pieces. So you know, I prefer people get it
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: then not get it. But there's there's no way to
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: ensure that it hits the way it's supposed to. I
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: just so happen to be a content creator who's license
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: to practice clinical mental health counseling. So I can't I
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: can't hit it in a certain spot. I can hit
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: a sweet spot where I can give you the general
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: idea and even the approach of it. I think that
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: if you approach it like a therapist or traditional therapist,
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: because we've changed a lot in the last ten years,
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: therapists aren't the not Frazer Crane with the elbow patches
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: and tell me how that makes you feel.
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: We don't really do all that no more. You know
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: what I'm saying.
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: We wearing Pham positives and Nike joggers, and we come
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: in as our full selves now. But the way I
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: frame the POD is, I'm not like your therapists, man,
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: I'm more like your favorite cousin that's pulling up the
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: grandma house with the good liquor, you know what I'm saying.
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: But I also, yeah, I've seen some things that we're
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: gonna talk about some stuff, But I'm also trained to
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: help people move through life in a healthy, productive, and
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: well regulated manner. And I think it's that personable, that
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: that eye level approach, especially with black men, not hyper
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: pathologizing you, not problematizing everything that you have going on.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: But just seeing you where you are, like, Okay, I
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: get down here with you, you together.
• 42:02
  Speaker 6: I was gonna say, you know, you probably know because
• 42:04
  Speaker 6: you're a black men.
• 42:05
  Speaker 5: But it's a lot of us that are women, black
• 42:07
  Speaker 5: women that are raised not to see black men as
• 42:09
  Speaker 5: just people. And I don't even think our moms mean
• 42:11
  Speaker 5: to do it. It comes from something that they were
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: given as well too, But you don't realize until you're
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: like grown, grown, and by that point you'dne probably made
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: somebody feel so little and so low.
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think the distinct challenges that black men
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: are dealing with publicly don't help separate the humanizing part
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: from the actual person, you know. But yeah, I don't
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: think and I don't think a lot of black men
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: are raised to see themselves as human. I think a
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: lot of black men deeply find themselves disposable. Yeah, and
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: I think society reinforces that all the time. You know,
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: it's not just a problem that black men have, but
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: with black men, I find that every area of your life,
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: every stage of your maturation, is designed to separate you
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: from your emotional reality. You know, when you're a little
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: teeny baby and you cry and your mom wants to
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: pick up and hold the collar. You know, I don't
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: pick up a whole call on that boy. You gonna
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: make them soft. You know, when you're a preschooler you
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: fall off of your bike, Man, don't crish, It's a bruise,
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: and you be alrighty, get up, get back up and
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: keep riding. If you're a teenager and you go through
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: a crazy heartbreak, man, what you crying for?
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: Man? Girls like busses mix one next fifteen one coming?
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: You be allright, wipe your tears.
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: You become an adult man and your girlfriend said something
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: dangerous or inflammatory or something that was insensitive.
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: And you get upset or what you mad?
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: You and your feelings? What you say? Who gonna be
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: the men? Who gonna be the boys? The boys want
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: to be the girls? Now.
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: Every turning point of your life is designed specifically to
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: separate you from your emotions. And we get a lot
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: of practice being separated from our emotions.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: And I don't know about y'all, but when I go
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: to a football field, I see the wide receivers on
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: the drug machine. They boom, boom boom, they catching passes.
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: You see the quarterbacks, you see them throwing, throwing emotions
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: and basketball. You see who was putting up shots? Why
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: because you've become good at the things you practice, And
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: we get a lot of practice separating ourselves from our
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: emotions or being separated from our emotions, and then we
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: become husbands, we become fathers, we become fully formed adults,
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: and there's this idea that we're supposed to put it
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: right back altogether.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: Itsutaneously like that train ain't.
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: Been traveling on the track at one hundred miles per
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: hour for five, ten, fifteen, twenty twenty five years. When
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: you hit the brakes on that train, it's not just
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: going to stop that joint on the slide for a
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: very long time. So it's like this mix of holding
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: space for grace for men in that regard, but also
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: holding men accountable.
• 44:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but that's the the middle point is not always
• 44:39
  Speaker 5: the easiest to find.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: I do I like what you said about how we
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: problematize things right, because I feel like that's what happens
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: on social media to black men.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, absolutely.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: Black men can't be the problem for every single issue
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: that's going on in the world, and I feel like
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of times that happens, especially you know, from
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: our sisters. That's why sometime I'm telling for you get
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: off social media.
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: It off social media.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: It's not the real world. Go and interact with some
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: black women in your life for real. They don't feel
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: this way. Like you said something when you say you
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: sit down with somebody sometimes and you know that automatically
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: you're dealing with whoever they dealt with in the past.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: That's how I feel like a lot of these people
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: on social media treat all black men.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Don't point, don't project on me what somebody did to you.
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: But that's what the internet is designed for. And if
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: you have the internet.
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: Is full of zero star experiences. Man, if you ever
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: do you know what I'm.
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: Saying, it's all the people who got zero stars out
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: a loud. It's about it.
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: If you have a five star experience, you ain't gonna
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: say nothing. The food is delicious. I'm going back next
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: time you on about your life, let the food have.
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: A roach in it. You on Yelp with your fingers burning.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: It's a very loud voice.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: Nobody ever goes on social media to talk about what's good.
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: No, no, and the people healthy relationships don't talk on
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: social media.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not going to infiltrate my relationship with nonsense.
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: People always tell me and my wife, y'all put all
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: your business.
• 45:56
  Speaker 5: I used to always like when I was I was
• 45:58
  Speaker 5: just rewatching your video on feeling disconnected, and I was like,
• 46:04
  Speaker 5: I just wonder, how, because y'all seem like very well
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: balanced people in real life, how do y'all get online
• 46:08
  Speaker 5: and then want to talk about it too? Because it
• 46:10
  Speaker 5: disrupts a little bit, Like if you allow it, it's
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: just the option to disrupt, is there.
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: It's like, why if you allow us doing all the
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: heavy lifting in that sentence you just said, we don't
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: allow it. My wife and I super solid, were super
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: secure in our relationship. And this is the thing, man,
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: we know we're not the only ones dealing with this.
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: People be lying about relationships and parenthood. People be lying
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: and they're not honest about what's going on in their
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: relationship and not saying that they got the duty to be.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: Because we talk about relationships on the pod all the time.
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: Partnership is a huge part of what I talk about,
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: especially from a male perspective. But I'm not telling you anything.
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't tell you in person. What we see things differently.
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: Oh, don't talk about that.
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: This man and his wife don't see everything out of eye.
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: It's not so much about the differences that we focused on.
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: I think we really like to talk about how we
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: have gate through it, you know, and navigate through it
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: safely and leaving with more than just hurt feelings.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Well, that's one thing I love that you talk about
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: is something that we don't talk about enough as black man.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Is that father man? Oh man, I saw you.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: You posted a caption in a video with your daughter
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: and you said, becoming the father I deserve.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: How you speak about that a lot?
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: Can you talk about that father wound that men don't
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: address often?
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: Man, you know, I think men are men have this
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: mentality sometimes where we believe that our job is to
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: endure hardships like a good soldier. You white knuckle through
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: life and you don't complain about it. Even when you're
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: with the homies. You know, you can talk about your
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: difficulties once or twice, but when you get to when
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: you get to complaining a little bit too much, it's like,
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: all right, bro, you need to you know, cry me
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: a river, build a bridge, and get over it. With
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: the father wound is really specific and my mentor, Jason Wilson,
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: talks about this a lot.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: Love man.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: That's my dog. Another one, that's my dog. He's such
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: an incredible dude. Man.
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: I'd be on the phone with her for two hours
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: at a time just talking life. But we talk about
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: these wounds in parenthood, and with the father wound that
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: hurts the most because that was supposed to be your
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: model on your role map, and I think we see
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: a father wound as a man that was completely absent,
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: like your father wasn't there like traditional athlete story, you
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: know what I'm saying. He went out for milk and
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: he never came back. But also there are a lot
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: of men, especially like in Afro Caribbean households and West
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: African households. And it's not just Germaine, the black people.
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: White people go through this all the time where there
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: was a man in the house but he wasn't really
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: emotionally available. We got all this language now, but it
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: wasn't like this in the eighties or the nineties, or
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: the seventies or the sixties or the fifties when both
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: we and our parents were coming up into our maduration.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: So it's a.
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: Long end not only to have the love that you
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: think that you needed, not the love that you definitely needed.
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: And like the handover hand, guid is in that warmth
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: that you needed from your father, because warmth is not
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: the opposite of strength.
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: It's not the opposite of strength.
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: And I think maybe a lot of our fathers maybe
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: have felt that or maybe thought that. But not only that,
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: but now it's requisite, it's required of you to demonstrate
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: that warmth in the world where that was never associated
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: with masculinity before. So now not only are you flying
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: the plane while you're building a joint, you're trying to
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: figure out coordinates to a place you've never been and
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: you ain't got no landing gear, and they shooting at
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: the plane on social media, they shooting at the plane
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: in public, all of that.
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: Man, So it just it becomes a lot.
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: And I think it's hard to have that conversation in
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: public because of things like patriarchy and whenever. If you're
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: a man like yeah, my father won't you know, never,
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: I never learned how to beat these things.
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: It's like, well, boo hoo.
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: You know, men have all the power in society. You
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: need to learn how to deal with it. And it's
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: like I feel you, but it don't work that way.
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: You're still an individual that needs some tutelage, that needs
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: some warmth, needs some love. But after you turn at
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: certain ages of man like, nobody nobody holds you anymore.
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: We did an event and I was just talking to
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: a group of men. I said, when the last time
• 50:02
  Speaker 4: you've been held? Couldn't nobody answer that? After you assume
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: a man's bat, don't nobody hold you no more? Nobody
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: nobody holds you in their arm. It just tells you
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: it's gonna be okay. It doesn't work that way.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: So, and that's what you want your You want your
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: woman to be that. You want your wife to be that.
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it can't be a hyper dependence on her
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: to be that for you. You need to diversify.
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: It's very important for men to do this, and I
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: talk about this in the part and in my book.
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: You have to diversify where you get your knees met
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: or else you end up leaning on one person a
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: little bit too hard for everything and you burn them out.
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: Your wife's not your mom, man, she's your wife.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Don't talk to me like that.
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: Oh, I wasn't what you feel like?
• 50:43
  Speaker 6: Yes, because his wife is now I'm a cancer.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: I know I'm needy. You know what I'm saying? I need?
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I am very hyperdependent.
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: I don't know anything about zodiac. I'm a price. He's
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: what that mean?
• 50:55
  Speaker 6: What I do?
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: Fifteenthi? Somebody told me my jubiter was in micro braid.
• 51:00
  Speaker 6: I know February mail pices are horrible.
• 51:03
  Speaker 5: Okay, well, we can do a poll around all the
• 51:06
  Speaker 5: women in the room if you want. But most people
• 51:08
  Speaker 5: I know that encounter mail. They just haven't gotten to
• 51:11
  Speaker 5: the emotional maturity point that they need to be at
• 51:14
  Speaker 5: before they start encountering somebody's daughter.
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: You know your trade shout out to being born in
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: late February. Just apparently.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Pisces trades are deathent compassionate okay, highly intuitive, artistic, and gentle.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: They are considered wise, but often struggle with escaping reality,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: being overly sensitive and setting boundaries. They are deeply emotional
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: and selfless, frequently prioritizing others needs.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: That sounds like you to me.
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: I'm an only child on my mama's side at least,
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: so I'm very selfish.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: But telling them people stay out of my business man?
• 51:46
  Speaker 6: Now, who wrote that I do?
• 51:48
  Speaker 5: What?
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: What? Does healthy dependency.
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: Look like, uh, and what regard and emotion.
• 51:53
  Speaker 5: In regards to when you need to be held in
• 51:55
  Speaker 5: a relationship, I don't know, just in general, and I'm
• 51:58
  Speaker 5: not even a romantic relationship.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: Just in general, I.
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: Don't know if I wouldlassify that as dependency necessarily, But
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: healthy dependency looks like needing things from a person that
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: doesn't exhaust their bandwidth and not mistaken the things that
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: you should be doing for yourself with things that someone
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: else should be doing for you. So it's like the
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: person you're with accentuates what it is you're trying to
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: do and what you're trying to accomplish. They don't supplant it.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: I always say if you don't have boundaries, like a
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: person who has maybe unhealthy boundary setting challenges versus a
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: person who had who's unable to say no. It's like
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: an endless falset pouring into a bucket that doesn't know
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: that it's endless. That false is going to keep pouring.
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: It's not going to say, oh, bucket, you've had enough,
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: let me stop.
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: Nah. That false is just going to keep running. It's
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: incoming on the bucket to say, hey, I've reached capacity.
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: I need you to stop an enemy and then the
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: buccaneeds to move three inches to the right so that
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: water doesn't keep pouring.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: But it's hard to do when you have.
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: Father wounds where you have been mistreated as a child.
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: We call it aces, a verse childhood experiences. Well, that's
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: a verse childhood experienced scale. But the things you went
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: through in the younger parts of your lifetime that really
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: formulated the way that you need love, the way that
• 53:22
  Speaker 4: you see love. And if there's a big gap right there,
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: you could try to feel it. It needs to be filled
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: with like warm soup. But you'll take anything. It could
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: be cement, it could be dirt. You'll just take what
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: it is. It won't fit, it won't feel good, but
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: your mind doesn't always catch on to the fact that
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: it doesn't fit and it doesn't feel good, because when
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: you have a deficits somewhere, sometimes something is better than nothing.
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: If you were starving for ten years and I slide
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: over a bag of pretzels, you gonna dog that joint
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: like it's a bone there, ribbi, you know. And I
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: think desperation in a large hunger for need, it builds
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: an environment where you'll take things that aren't.
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: Necessarily good for you.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: I'm about to do something that I want all of
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: y'all to do.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: I want you to go to wherever you subscribe to
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: podcast and subscribe subscribe to care Games, Learned the hard.
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: Learn the Hallway. We would love to have you. We
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: just had Ryan Clark on Man.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: That was a really good That was such a good
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: episode time.
• 54:17
  Speaker 6: But I had some stuff from that episode.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, I can see they talk to all day,
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: but he got a busy day.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: Man calling got him out here working.
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: So you open it with saying you think men are
• 54:31
  Speaker 5: best off being invisible.
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, invisibility sometimes is protected for men.
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: And if you want me to dig deep into that, man,
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: go follow Learn the Hardway pod.
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: And also my brand new book, Learn the Hardway just debut.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: We're doing pre orders. It drops September. First.
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: Make sure that you get that whatever books or so called,
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: it all starts when you do what I say. I
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: said the book Learn the Hardway. Now, don't listen to that.
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: I got too much motion, too much motion. The book
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: is called it All stars.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: When you do, I was like, damn, I missed the book.
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: The book is it All starts with you do grab
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: it whoever, whoever books are sol you can.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: It's available for pre order right now. Like he said,
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: come down September first. Man can't hope to have you
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: with the Mental Wealth expot this year. Man, invite me,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: dog Me and dev We definitely had you top of
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: the list.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Glad that you were in town this week and we
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: could have you on the show. You're actually the perfect
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: guest to have this week with all the conversation.
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah man, and this mental health Awinness Moth happy mental
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: health with Winness Moth y'all y'all taking care of y'allselves.
• 55:29
  Speaker 6: Yeah a lot better now, Yeah, good for you.
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: I love that. That's honest right there.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: It's just amazing how God always works. Like doctor Shane
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Ryan was just here and I was just like, Yo,
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: you were in town. We booked this last week, but
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: I was just thinking to myself like this, you're the
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: perfect guest to have this week and all the conversation
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: that's happening with social media and content creators and licensed
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: therapists like you are the embodiment of that. You started
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: off with the content creator who became a licensed therapist.
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, man, it's you know, all in God's time. How
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: about that time it all works out.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: This kid games, It's breakfast Club.
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: Thank you for coming brother, Appreciate child for having me
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: hold up every day I wake up.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: Click yours up the breakfast Club.
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: You'll finish for y'all done,