Latest / Radio 831: A Romance Podcast / Sports Romance Needs New Material, Lily Herman on Formula 1, and a Listener Voicemail

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Sports Romance Needs New Material, Lily Herman on Formula 1, and a Listener Voicemail · Radio 831: A Romance Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome to the Radio 831 Podcast.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: We're your hosts, Sanjana Bhaskar and Tyler McCall, and we're
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: so excited to talk everything romance, from the novels and
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: the tropes to the book-to-screen adaptations and, of course, the
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: drama of it all. You know, unpacking what the genre
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: says about who we are and how we love.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Sanj, hello.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Hi.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: It is the start of a new season, and I
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: don't know if you know this, but football season has started.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Football season has started that's right.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Wait let me ask this because you are from the
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: south were you into like a college.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Football situation So I did go to an ACC school.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I have attended a Darty and I am familiar with
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: the concept of tailgating. However, I did that all of
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: one time in my college career. Because I don't get it.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: I don't really get why people mash their brains into
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: oatmeal for sport. It's bad, for sure. And I also
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: am not a huge drinker. So that appeal is lost
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: on me. So then it's like, well, what am I
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: going to do? Pay attention to the sport?
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What's left here for me?
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: But yes, I'm familiar with the culture. I understand football
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: as a religious institution in the South, and I have
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: great respect for that. And also, it's sort of none
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: of my business. I'm football agnostic. Football agnostic.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking about sports, and it brings to mind sports
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: romances for me.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Which I love, unlike sports themselves. I love sports romance.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: There is not a single sport that I'm locked in on,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: but I do love a sports romance. How are we
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: feeling about the current state of sports romances, which I
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: think is fair to say is fairly dominated right now
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: by hockey? I don't know if you've heard. And now
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: we have to bang the heated rivalry alarm.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Bang, bang, bang.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: That heated rivalry is quite a huge phenomenon right now.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I am interested in the sports romance space diversifying
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: a little bit, you know, getting into some different new sports,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: because I think the potential of sports is always like
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: interesting stakes, people who are the closest to superhuman that
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: you can get as a mortal. For me, I find
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: sports interesting because it's this closed container for gossip and
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: messy interpersonal connections. So I'm in a place where I'm like,
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: I would like for there to be more sports romance
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: across more sports to make use of those similar kinds
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: of constraints to tell interesting stories. Yeah. You know what
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: I mean?
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I completely agree. And also, I think they're very, how
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: can I phrase this, hetero dominated.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they are. And they're pretty white, too. And
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: they're pretty white, which is crazy. Given the landscape of
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: sports broadly.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I read the 831 romance rooting interest, which is WNBA.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: And I was like, the WNBA is ripe for romance novels. Like, yeah,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I need 18 more of these on my desk.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: If you could take another sport and make it like
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: the hockey romance of the day, what sport would it
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: be in terms of popularity?
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: This is so hard because I, as you know, don't
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: really pay attention to a ton of sports. But I
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: do feel like ice skating is one that I would
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: be really invested in.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I watch every Tessa and Scott, Tessa Virtue and Scott Moyer,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: who are these like Canadian ice dancers who did this
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: iconic performance. performance of Moulin Rouge at some competition that
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: every time it comes up on my For You page,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: I'm watching that again. And you know something? They used
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: to sleep in the same bed, so their heart rates
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: would sync up before performances.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Shut up.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: And then they didn't go to each other's weddings.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: The lore is crazy. That lore is crazy.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: It's crazy. It's crazy.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: That lore is crazy. Like I guess in a sports romance,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: are you more invested in like both of the love
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: interests being on a team together? Are you interested in
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: it being like one's on a team, one's on the
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: opposite team is one on an athlete and one is
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: not an athlete at all? Like what's the dynamic that
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: you like most about a sports romance?
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I am interested in every configuration. I was thinking also
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: when you mentioned ice dancing, finding her edge. Did you
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: ever watch that? It was a show that came out
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: earlier this year. It's like a YA new adult show
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: about this girl who makes her return to ice dancing
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: to provide for her family because the training camp they
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: run is not doing well financially. And there's a love
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: triangle situation where she has chemistry with the person that
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: she's been paired with, but her ex-boyfriend has also come
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: to train at the same place and he still loves her.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: And there's that interesting dynamic of like these two men
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: being rivals, but this girl and boy they're like paired
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: together and so the chemistry is in kind of every
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: direction if you look hard enough and then there are
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: also interesting rivalries at play so i kind of am
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: open to all of it i think the sport if
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: i could bring one into the adaptation realm or like
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: see it become the new heated rivalry hockey romance or
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: even formula one since formula one is on the rise
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: right now is probably skiing. I really want to see
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: more skiing.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: But that's not actually for competition reasons. I read a
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: book called Off Course by Julie Cook, which is about
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: this Olympic level skier who starts to hook up with
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: her trainer. Like she does specific training to do a
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: specific variety of skiing. And I also read Holly June
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Smith's novella, Can I Tell You Something? Yeah.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Which is a tie-in with Quinn about this audio erotica narrator.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, I read that. Who goes on... It's good. It's
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: really good.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Who goes on vacation with his best friend and finds
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: out that his best friend's younger sister is like a
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: devoted listener of his audio erotica. And like shenanigans ensue.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: And so in that context, they're not even competitive really.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: But sports does figure pretty heavily because... I think the
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: opportunity with skiing is the ski chalet and the apres-ski
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: vibe is very like cozy, warm, and still sports are
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: a crucial element, you know? Yeah. Basically, I'm open to
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: sports in all formations.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: In all our forms.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you have preferences?
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: When I'm thinking about when I really lock into a
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: sports romance, I really like when they're both athletes.
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Like, I'm trying to think about what works for me
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: in a heated rivalry versus an off-campus, which I did
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: really enjoy off-campus, mind you. But as an enemies-to-lovers girly,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: I like the— I keep wanting to call it, like, a face-off.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: That's, like, not what it is.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: But I like the head-to-head— I mean, it kind of is. Yeah,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: like a head-to-head dynamic or a facing-off dynamic of— to
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: people who are quite literally, like they're not enemies, but
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: they are rivals. Like they're quite literally rivals and how
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: that dynamic plays on and off the field and how
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: it plays into the development of their romance. Which is
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: why I'm also thinking so much about the WNBA because
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: I'm like I would read a million WNBA romances like
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: I would read it if they were on the same team.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: I would read it if they were on opposing teams.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: I love the structure of being on opposing teams of
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: like you're not in the same place all the time.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: And then when you are in the same place, you're
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: there to like play against each other. Like, I kind
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: of wonder what the Knicks win will do for basketball
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: romance in general.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: I was just thinking that.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: I was just thinking that. Well, there were so many
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: people who made media around the Knicks when talking about
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: how Jalen Branson was playing with two of his best
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: friends from college. Like, there was a lot of bromance
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: content on the books. And I think that that will
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: maybe hopefully translate, fingers crossed, into something romance-wise. Or the
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: fact that I think a lot of the Knicks players
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: are with people, their partners, they've been seeing since college
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: as well. They're really long-term relationships. Actually, this is, I think,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: an interesting dynamic, too, because I think athleticism and monogamy
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: are not things that go hand-in-hand, typically, in pop culture.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: It's interesting because then, not that monogamy is a requirement
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: in a romance, but it's often an encouraged element of
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: a romance. It's interesting... When you see opportunities for more
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: naturalistic pairings. Actually, this is why I'm so interested in
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: the fact that we're talking about Formula One, because for
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: a long time, up until relatively recently, Formula One drivers
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: were with women who they dated for their whole lives.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: These like long term committed monogamous relationships, which was quite unusual.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: There are exceptions to that rule. Obviously, I'm pretty sure
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Lewis Hamilton, Kim Kardashian have already broken up. It's part
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: of why I think Formula One is such a good
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: candidate for romance.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: That one feels especially adjacent to, I mean, all of
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: sports romances, but adjacent to like celebrity, normal person romance
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Like that's a big crossover.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: You know what, though? Our guest, Lily Herman, is sort
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: of perfectly suited to talk about specifically that, the intersection
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: of celebrity and Formula One and sports culture and WAG culture,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: which stands for Wives and Girlfriends for the Uninitiated. Lily
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: is a writer, an editor, a podcaster, a digital strategist.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: She has been a journalist for a very long time
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: and has published with Teen Vogue and Glamour and Time
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: and Elle and more. Most importantly to our conversation today,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: She hosts No Grip, an F1 culture podcast. And she
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: also has a very cool Formula One culture newsletter called
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Engine Failure, which I think even if you're not a
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Formula One watcher is worth reading because she talks about
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Formula One gossip girl style.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Say no more.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: You said the magic words. I said that specifically for
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: your benefit. Thank you. I'm excited to have Lily on
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: to talk about Formula One and its romance potential. Lily,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: welcome to the pod. Thank you so, so much for
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: coming on. And this is also especially lovely for me
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: because we did also talk about F1 once upon a
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: time for your Patreon a million years ago.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Like four years ago.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: Yes. This is so delightful to me because I feel
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: like in some ways this is like a full circle situation.
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: Where like when we first started talking about this, F1
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: romance was like just cracking romance.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: Like, there were not a lot of Formula One romance
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: titles out there in the world. Like, the world and
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: landscape of F1 romance has changed quite a bit in
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: four years.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And I will say that Patreon episode was on
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: how Max Verstappen, Red Bull driver, is the ultimate enemies
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: to lovers hero.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: Yes. An excellent topic that perfectly dovetails in today's discussion.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: But yes, I, in the past three and a half years,
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: have read somewhere between 30 to almost three dozen F1 romances.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: And that includes ones that have come out in the
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: past three, three and a half years, as well as
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: some older ones in the history of it. And it
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: is truly fascinating because there's also on top of there
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: being an explosion of them. I feel like race car
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: romances in general are in a very different place in
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: the 2020s than they were even 10, 15 years ago.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: So a very fertile ground, despite being this very niche
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: part of the sports romance subgenre.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Well, why do you think that is? Like, what is
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: it about? I mean, part of it must be Drive
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: to Survive, right? This Netflix documentary that was airing for,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: and I think still airing, that was getting into the
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: nitty gritty of the all of the things that make
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: it like an exciting sport. But like, why do you
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: think romance has taken such a shine to Formula One?
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: There are a couple of things I think make F1
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: tailor-made to be the perfect setting and place for a
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: romance novel. You obviously have very glamorous locales around the world.
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: That's lovely. Everyone loves a setting like that. It is
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: a bit of a sexy sport, right? The glitz, the glamour,
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: the sex appeal of this. The drivers, obviously, you have
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: to be a bit of a daredevil. There can be
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: some you know, interesting stuff going on as far as
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: like who are these bad boys of the grid. You
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: have the fact that there's just gobs of money in
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: this sport. So the sky's the limit as far as
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: you want to make an F1 romance. Like everyone can
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: be super wealthy and that is within the realm of
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: the actual sport. But also I think F1, unlike something like.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: The NFL.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: But currently there's only 11 teams and 22 drivers. And
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: actually for 10 years prior to this year, there was
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: only 20 drivers and 10 teams. So it's a really
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: small number of people. And not to say that every
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: single F1 romance is directly pulling from a specific driver
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: or team, but there's only so many archetypes and like
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: types of person to pull from as inspiration, which I
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: think makes.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: It a little bit easier.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: But also I think overarchingly similar to how, even if
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: you're not into sports whatsoever, you understand the stakes of sports.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: I think we all can.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Understand in our lizard brains, like, car go fast, that important.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: And so I think that they win.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: Like, that's a very easy thing to figure out and
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: kind of be attached to without necessarily needing to know
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: every single detail of F1. So I do appreciate in
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: F1 romance that it's obvious the writer is a fan
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: of F1. They're able to tie in some of the
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: actual details. dynamics you know in the paddock in the
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: garage on the track but you can kind of skirt
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: around a little bit of it and still get the
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: gist a lot of actually i looked up some f1
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: romances and they weren't actually actually f1 they were like
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: vague generic race car romances from the 80s and 90s
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: and in those a lot of the action like if
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: not any of it like doesn't take place On a racetrack,
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: there's no actual like racing tie-in, but the idea of
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: the racing driver is what's important. Like you have a
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: bad boy guy, you know, he meets a girl on vacation,
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: but he's, you know, all you know is that he
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: loves racing. But there's no actual plot around that. any
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: of his sport or like what he does in his
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: day job.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: But there's obviously a lot more interest in the paddock
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: in Formula One, in the glitz and glamour of this
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: particular setting now in particular because of all of the
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: things that you just mentioned.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And you can kind of, if you watch Drive
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: to Survive, get a sense of what's going on here,
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: which is a lot of nonsense and a lot of
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: pettiness and also a lot of hot people. Yeah.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: So I'm not a regular F1 watcher anymore, but I
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: did watch the first several seasons of Drive to Survive
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: and my sister is like, a devoted Formula One fan,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: like to a degree that I find vaguely medically concerning.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: But like she's someone who keeps me in the loop
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: on a lot of the things that are going on.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: And I do think that Formula One is like one
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: of the most gossipy sports in the business. And I'm
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: not even sure why that is. But the media circus
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: around Formula One is unlike anything, anything I've ever seen.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: And that's part of what feels so exciting about it.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: Well, it's so tiny, right? And it's been described as
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: a traveling circus. So you have the same small number
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: of people, many of whom have been in the sport
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: for decades, who all just go around to these very
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: exotic locales and then deal with each other in these garages, right?
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: And again, they do this for decades. So these people
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: have all of this history. and there's not that many
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: of them. And then people have described F1 as real
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: housewives going 300 kilometers an hour, right? So then you
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: have like the drama on the track, then they have
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: to bring it because they're all just in this pressure
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: cooker to the next thing. And there are these like
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: storylines that follow drivers in a specific way for like,
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: not just like a season or two, but years, right?
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: And so, yeah, it just builds. It also just makes
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: for great fodder if you're trying to imagine like a
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: fictional scenario based on that.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Very easy to do.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: And I think this is something that you're particularly attentive
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: to in such an interesting way. The wag culture around
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Formula One feels so specific. And in part, I'm sure
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: it's because there aren't as many wags to keep track of. Wags,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: wives and girlfriends of the drivers. There aren't as many
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: to keep track of. And people are really interested in
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: the lives of these wags in particular for all sorts
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: of things. Like many of them are just by virtue
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: of who they are, lifestyle influencers. They just become that overnight. Yeah.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: Well, the interesting thing, too, with F1 is I actually
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: did an episode of my F1 show, No Grip, about
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: the event that I coined at the time, Wagageddon, which
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: was back in 2023. You had like half a dozen
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: drivers in break up with their long term partners in
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: the span of a couple months. And then a couple
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: months later, they almost all of them surfaced with new girlfriends.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: It was interesting was that that first crop of girlfriends
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: and these women were around when the sport really took
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: off in the States, right, with Drive to Survive and
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: the pandemic. But a lot of them were you know,
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: these guys, like their high school sweetheart or a woman,
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: they've been dating for six years. You're seeing, I think,
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: more of the driver's romantic lives just play out, even
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: if we still, I think it's important to note, like
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: do not know these people. But there is like the
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: question of, oh, how did they meet? What's the romantic
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: story behind it? Or what's, you know, what's unfolding with,
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: you know, that couple and whatnot. And it's, yeah, truly fascinating.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Because you've got a small cast of characters. You've got
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: really intense stakes. You have characters who have Like visible neuroses.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: You have to be such a specific personality to do
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: this kind of job and to face this kind of
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: intense speculation and fame and money. Like it just it
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: lends itself to a really character driven story, which is,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: of course, what romance is so exceptional at. Exactly. I
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: was dying to do this segment with you because I
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: need to ask you about Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg,
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: which is a rivalry that I was not aware of
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: at the time that we last spoke about this. but
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: that my sister has since clued me in on, would
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: you mind giving us a little overview? And I want
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: to talk about this because in a world that is
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: currently obsessed with heated rivalry, we can't not talk about
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: this rivalry, right?
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: So basically, about a decade ago, you have Lewis Hamilton.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Lewis Hamilton is still the first and only black driver
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: in F1. He is tied for the most number of
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: World Drivers Championships ever in F1, along with the driver
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: Michael Schumacher, who some people might know. And Nico Rosberg,
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: years ago, was his teammate at Mercedes. And together, they
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: made up a little pairing called Brosadies amongst the fandom.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: And the thing to.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: Know is they are perfect opposites, right? So Lewis Hamilton,
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: black driver, did not come from a lot of means
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: in England, right?
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: And meanwhile, you.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: Have Nico Rosberg, whose dad, KK Rosberg, is a former
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: F1 champion himself. He grew up in Monaco. He is
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: very white and very blonde and has probably had, I
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: will say, a big allegedly some work done that makes
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: his face look a little Instagram cyborg-y.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: But like.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: Very privileged, very different upbringing. However, these two raced against
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: each other growing up. You're in these small, rarefied spaces together.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: So they were good friends, notably documented good friends growing up.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: It was considered actually really cool when they became teammates
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: at Mercedes. However, the interesting thing about F1 is that
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: each team only has two drivers. So the only person
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: who really you are in competition with because you are
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: in the exact same machinery... is your teammate. So there's
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: a lot of competition among teammates. That goes for all
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: of the teams. There's this big question of, you know,
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: who's the A driver versus.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: The B driver?
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: That kind of dynamic comes up really quickly. And so,
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: unfortunately for Nico, Lewis, considered like a once-in-a-generation driver, he's
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: winning driver's championships left and right at Mercedes. Whereas Nico,
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: he just essentially, the 2016 season rolls around and he's like,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: I'm going to do it. I'm going to beat Lewis
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: and I'm going to win that world driver's championship. And
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: there was also already issues in their relationship that were
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: starting to form cracks, were starting to become visible to
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: the general public. but 2016 season is just these two
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: like there's just incident after incident one of them threw
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: a water bottle at the other one after a race
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: you had them crashing into each other in a race
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: because they wouldn't cede to the other when they should
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: have and following team orders like there's all this drama
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: they're talking about in the press particularly nico can be
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: very very petty and so obviously though Here we are
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: 10 years later from this incident. I will say Nico
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: Rosberg proceeds to win his first and only World Drivers
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: Championship at the end of that season and then retires
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: from F1 five days later. So that also adds to
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: the mythic quality of this rivalry. But if you go
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: onto YouTube and look up Brocades or this like Nico
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: Lewis bit, there are endless edits of these two, right?
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Because it really is.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: It can play so well as this like... Opposites attract
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: even like friendship that then turns into this deep and
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: like very hate-filled rivalry. And it also like Nico, again,
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: very petty guy. He's still talking about Lewis like in
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: the press and stuff. And he's been away from the
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: sport now technically for a decade, though he'll be like
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: a commentator. and have much to say about Lewis. Lewis
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: is racing and he'll throw in a little thing here
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: and there. There's been discussion of them reconciling a little
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: bit and Lewis sending very lavish Christmas gifts to Nico
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: Rosberg's daughters. But like, if you watch these clips of them, right,
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: there's something very, like, there is a spark there.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: There's tension, yeah. There's tension. There's a spark.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: There's like, there's just something very primal about that relationship
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: and the feelings wrapped up in that rivalry. And again,
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: it goes to, pick any song on the heated rivalry soundtrack, like,
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: that relationship will go Like, very nicely, yeah.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: But I think the thing about this is that, like,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: I have this, like, enduring theory that romance is about,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: it's a project of scale. That, like, it is about
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: understanding the things that happen on this, like, micro, intimate,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: interpersonal level that we can then use to, like, refract
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: broader messages about culture and society and power and so
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: on and so forth. Like, for me, romance is most
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: successful when it's people-oriented. And stories that lead to manifesto
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: as opposed to manifesto first that leads to story and
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: intimacy and so on and so forth. And for me,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: that's a pretty big barometer of when a romance property
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: is successful, when it has succeeded in saying something meaningful
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: on this incredibly microscopic level about the connections between people.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: And Formula One is such ripe fodder for that.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: It's just it's just like this particular sport, for a
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: number of reasons, allows you to ratchet up the tension
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: and the stakes and the fears and the concerns and
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: the this and that. And then it just explodes in
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: a way that I think for in romance you need
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: in general. But I think F1 makes it very easy.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: To access romance. What would that look like?
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: And also, like, everything's in, like, Monaco.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: So you're able to do that. And they're like, I'm
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: on a yacht. A glamorous destination.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: Exactly. So it, yeah, it kind of combines all those
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: things in a way.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: We're in Singapore. Yeah.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah. That it's, like, really fascinating kind of how do you–
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: and also, like I said, everyone's so nosy in F1. Like,
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: everyone's in everyone's business in such a specific way that– Like, whereas, yeah,
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: if you talk to anyone in like the big four
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: sports in the U.S., you know, the 53-man roster on
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: one NFL team isn't going to know all the drama,
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: you know, in the intricacies of like another team, right?
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Well, I should ask, are there F1 romances that you
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: really like that you would recommend? This is a newer market,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I should say. Like, in the grand scheme of sports romances,
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: there are fewer Formula One romances to recommend than Like
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of these are newer authors who have just
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: started writing a few years ago. So I think that
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: changes the scale and scope of what a recommendation list
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: for Formula One would look like compared to other sports.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: But yeah.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: A few that I think of that are doing something
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: a little different. One, you have Crash Test by Amy James.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: It is a queer F1 romance. But what I find
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: fascinating is the book is basically split in half where
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: one character's point of view is the first half of
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: that book. And then it switches midway through the romance
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: of the second characters. And I was like, yeah, crash
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: test by Amy James. And as soon as I realized
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: that's what was happening, I was like, this is fascinating.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: Because it is, in fact, about, like, closeted drivers. You
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: understand why it's important to get one guy's full perspective
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: and why his version of events leads to this massive climax.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: And then you can't dive into the other characters' stories.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: version of events until you you know the context outside
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: of his head so it's like this very very interesting
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: way of writing a romance in general and then apply
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: to f1 there are very few f1 romances doing that
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: and then similarly another romance where i was like this
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: is just an intriguing format and i'm a huge fan
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: of her work is uh andy j christopher has uh
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: I love this book. Yep.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: An F1 romance called Faster.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: And she's coming out with a YA one called Formula
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: He's the One, I believe, in the fall.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: But Faster is interesting because A.J.J. Christopher was like, it's
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: kind of weird that so much is going on in
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: the paddock at any given time that, like, wouldn't it
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: be cooler to kind of spotlight a ton of different, like, interconnected, like,
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: storylines in one book? And her inspiration was the bonk busters.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Of the 80s and 90s, right?
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: Particularly the 80s, where you had, like, the Jilly Coopers
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: of the world creating these, like, lush and expansive romances
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: where they are covering like 20 different dramas in one
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: book around romance. So yeah, so Andy J. Christopher's book
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: Faster basically covers like multiple different storylines all taking place
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: in the paddock. Obviously, these people all know each other
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: but are dealing with their own stuff on the side.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: I think because I've read so many of these, I'm
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: always looking for like a wacky structural thing, a character
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: who is just so amazingly just whatever or like so
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: intriguing that I want to keep reading. But those are
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: the two that immediately come to mind where I was like,
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: that is, you know, really, really just like fascinating what
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: they were doing.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, this was so good. This was so interesting.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for baring your brilliant brain for this.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. This was fabulous. Tyler, I had...
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: truly such a great time with lily she's so smart
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: she's so thoughtful she's so capable and i feel like
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: i want all of my sports culture news coming directly
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: from her but also today we have a voicemail to
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: listen to shall we hi my.
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: Name is danielle and i listen to your podcast which
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: i love by the way i know you guys talk
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: a lot about the things you love about romance novels
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: and what works for you I'm curious what doesn't work.
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: I know there's certain tropes that people like better. In general,
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: I guess I'm curious, what are things you dislike when
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: you're reading romance novels that'll make you put the book down? Yeah.
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: Thank you for your time. I love your podcast and
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: I listen all the time. So thank you for it.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: I feel like that clip of Lola Tongue and she's like, oh,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: my God, I love this question.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Are you a DNF-er? Like, will you DNF books? I'm not.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: I'm really bad.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: OK.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: I'm really bad at being a DNF-er.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: Me neither.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: OK. OK.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: I'm really bad at stopping TV shows. I don't stop movies.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: I've DNF-ed, I think, one book in my adult life,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: and it was The Idiot.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: I love that book.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: No, and I don't know what it was. It just
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: got to a point. I think I was like 100
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: pages in and I was like, I don't have to
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: do this to myself.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: You've never DNF'd romance?
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: No.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I'm committed. I have the disease where it's like,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: I have to know where you're going with this. I
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: have to know. Why don't you DNF? So you don't
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: DNF romance either.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: I'm not much of a DNF-er or I was going
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: to come into this conversation and be like, I don't
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: DNF at all, but I actually don't think that's true.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: It's just that I'm a bad tracker of that, which
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: I DNF. But I will say that like, For me,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: DNFing or even deciding what I like or don't like
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: about a book is about authorial voice, which I am
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: always talking about on here, but I can't emphasize enough
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: how crucial it is to understanding romance for me.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: My thing, if it's like, again, it's not that I DNF,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: but I will read the rest of the book with
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: a like, okay, like kind of a bit of a
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: face on, is if I sense a whiff of like
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: puritanical or conservative thinking.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: It's why I hate to be this person, but like
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: surprise pregnancy trope is tough for me because you have
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: to be a good and very persuasive writer to convince
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: me of why like abortion is not an option for
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: this person, like in a real way. It's not that
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: I can't bear perspectives that don't match my own. It's
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: more just that like that's not my ministry, you know,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: like that's just not how I how I interact with
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: the world and how I view the world. I think
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: I have a hard time with second chance romance sometimes
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: for the same reason, actually. Or like marriage and peril
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: stories for the same reason. Like those are tough for
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: me where it's like, you could just leave. Just walk out.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Practice free will.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Practice free will and get a divorce lawyer. It takes
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: like a very persuasive skilled author to like bring me
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: on board to those. Which is to say that, like,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: there are tropes that I will only read if it
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: is by an author that I trust. I would not
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: pick one up off the shelf.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: You know something, though? You know what I am actually
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: such a baby about? This is so, like, infantile about me.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: I don't read a lot of romance because I hate
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: being told new rules. I love historical romance. Because you
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: know the rules. I love historical romance because I know
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: the rules. You know the rules. you've picked up a
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: regency and yeah everyone's going to manipulate that regency a
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: little differently yeah not all historical is regency but oh
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: my god i'm not learning things from scratch that's that's
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: really fair steep 50 page learning curve where you're like
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: i don't know what your orc is i don't know
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: what an orc uh yeah mating game is explain it
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: to me from scratch i have zero patience for that
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: yeah and i will do it but like oh my
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: god i'm so i'm such a baby about it it's.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Really it's funny that you say that i'm i'm actually
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: realizing that i i'm also not drawn to romanticy because
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: i don't want to learn a new political system correct
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: i i don't i don't have time.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: For me it's also i then get into a place
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: of being like This doesn't make any sense politically. And
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: then I'm like, well, wrap it up.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: That's not what we're here for right now. That's not
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: the point of this.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: You know what, Tyler? I think that's the show. I
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: think that's the show. What a beautiful note to end on.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: I loved getting a voicemail. If you have more you
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: want to know from us, you can call. 833-831-LOVE. That
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: number is always in our outro. Or if you're feeling
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: particularly jazzy and you're in the New York City area
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: on October 24th, you can come ask us in person
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: because we will be at 831's RomCon in Brooklyn. It's
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: a hell of a lineup.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: We have a.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Recent guest on the pod, Nikki Payne, Alexandra Romanoff, Julia Tertian.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: My favorite, Regina Black.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Regina Black, the queen, and many more. And now that's
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: the show. That's the show is our plug for you
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: to come see us on October 24th. We would love
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: to see you.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: For real. That's the show.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Call us and leave us a voicemail with your thoughts
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: at 833-831-LOVE. That's 833-831-5683.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: If you fell hard for what you heard here, get
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: episode notes delivered straight to your inbox by signing up
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: at 831stories. substack. com and share your recommendations and topic ideas in
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: the post comments.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Head to 831stories.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Com to keep up with 831's monthly read-in-one-sitting romance novellas.
• 31:29
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• 31:31
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• 31:34
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• 31:37
  Speaker 2: including 831's beloved trope hats and pleasure reading merch.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: The Radio 831 Podcast is a production of iHeart Podcasts,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: hosted by Sanjana Bhaskar and Tyler McCall. The show is
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: produced by Liz Smith, and for iHeart, our supervising producer
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: is Emily Marinoff. Special thanks to the whole iHeart team,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: and especially Allie Perry and Allison Cantor-Graber. Our executive producers
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: are Claire Mazur and Erica Cerullo. Our music is Domino
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: by James Ryan Carr and Love Is What You Do
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: by Alibi. We'll be sharing the love here again next week.