Latest / Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast / Issue 324: Obi-Wan Kenobi: Part II

Transcript

Issue 324: Obi-Wan Kenobi: Part II · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

0:05
Welcome to the note polity. Hi, this is Nick Nastasu, story editor
0:12
on Star Wars, The Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch, and you
0:17
are listening to Aggressive Negotiations. Hello, and welcome to Aggressive Negotiations, the
0:31
Star Wars podcast coming at you here from the tamest cesspool in the Galaxy Dio,
0:39
and I am just one of your hosts. Here. Matthew Rushing ann
0:42
with me as he is every single week, is Esteemed Jedi Master John Mills.
0:49
Indeed, they shut down the ports and I can't leave. That's why
0:53
I'm here, and that's why I am looking at my little magic puck which
0:59
has your face on it, Master Rushing, and now I'm searching for you.
1:03
Wait are you saying that Dio is actually Hotel California. You can check
1:08
out any time you like, but you can never leave. No, I
1:11
would never say that because I'm one of those people that doesn't like Hotel California.
1:17
So let's just call you. You don't like the song Hotel California.
1:21
No, I do not. Oh man's not. There's way more wrong with
1:26
you than I actually thought. Well, I mean that's an understatement, but
1:30
like yeah, there, look we're not going to turn this into a music
1:34
podcast, but a definite factor with that is, just like so many other
1:40
songs I grew up with, there's a certain limit to how many times you
1:42
can hear it, and then when you hear it, it just annoys you.
1:47
It doesn't matter, And so Hotel California is in there along with like
1:51
Brown Eyed Girl, Yeah, I hear that, I hear that first few
1:55
notes, strike up, No, please don't do this to me. Yeah,
2:00
sort of the way, sort of the way that it is torturous for
2:02
people to listen to the sound of a chase involving an inquisitor with no helicopter
2:09
lightsaber. It's a sound that's missing anyway. Before we dive into that,
2:15
of course, we want to thank you so much for listening and please help
2:19
out the show. Follow us on Twitter at the Jedi Masters, and interact
2:23
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it drops. And you know, be one of those people that every podcast
2:58
likes, which is and rate us over there on Apple Podcast. Help the
3:02
show grow, help people find us. We'd really appreciate that. But John,
3:07
we're continuing in our discussion of the Kenobi series, and so we are
3:13
in part two now, and this one, you know, immediately follows up
3:20
episode one, and I think, you know, I've just got to get
3:25
this out of the way, because it's got to be said. This show
3:32
is filmed during COVID, and I feel like Dio completely encapsulates the problem of
3:40
filming during then, because there's nothing organic about what's happening on this planet,
3:49
because everything feels staged in the absolute worst way, because everybody's spaced in a
3:55
way that they can have them on the volume, and then they're using the
4:00
volume, and so you know, you're not really allowed to move outside your
4:05
pods, and you know, it's just nothing, absolutely nothing about this planet
4:14
looks real, and it's because there's no freedom of movement for the characters on
4:20
screen. And I was not kidding at the beginning that this feels like the
4:29
nicest cess pool in the galaxy. Like this place is supposed to be a
4:32
drug infested, terrible place. It's supposed to feel like Level you know,
4:39
thirteen thirteen, and you know it feels more like downtown Tokyo with less drifting.
4:49
Okay, I look, I like the design of this planet. I
4:55
think that there are a couple of establishing shots that I think are particularly successful,
5:00
and I think that there is a definite sense absolutely you can tell that
5:05
this is staged in a certain way. My question with that becomes things like
5:13
that were overcome by Lucas himself back in two thousand and two, in two
5:17
thousand and five with digital placement of redressing people. And if you're going to
5:25
have a situation where people aren't really going to be interacting and you have them
5:30
in these groups and pods, then you can, in fact, and the
5:34
technology exists to shoot this group and then say, okay, put on a
5:40
different cloak, put on a mask, go stand four feet this way,
5:44
and we'll shoot you there too, and just keep the cameras rolling. Especially
5:47
with digital, it's a lot easier, and you can multiply your crowds.
5:53
You can't interact with them in the same way, but you can multiply them.
5:58
You can even create digital people in the backgrounds and create Yes. It's
6:02
been done, yes many times. So my question winds up becoming why wasn't
6:10
that done? And that I think is probably because they were just on there.
6:16
It's one of those things where in retrospect it's easy for me to sit
6:19
there and say, oh, well, you could have done this. But
6:23
if I'm a producer and a director sitting there and they say, okay,
6:26
you have to shoot these with these restrictions now, and by the way,
6:30
you cannot alter your production schedule and you cannot change your budget all of the
6:34
sudden, I'm in a position where I have to juggle schedules. I have
6:40
to say, okay, clear the set, and then the next people come
6:44
in, and then you have to do this, and you have to do
6:46
that. So I get it, but I think there are also ways to
6:51
shoot around it. I think there are ways to have overcome it. Unlike
6:58
you or most other people, I don't think that that is what works to
7:01
the biggest detriment of this specific episode. And in fact, there were a
7:06
lot of things about this episode that I really enjoyed, even on this second
7:11
viewing or third viewing or however many this first viewing in a while, right,
7:17
So there were things that I thought were particularly successful, and they are
7:20
the smaller moments, and that's that's sort of the thing. I think that
7:28
probably the way they get could have gotten around it would be to say,
7:32
Okay, we're going to reset, and we're gonna have obi Wan going through,
7:38
and we're gonna have something where it says the streets are cleared, and
7:41
then we'll just have stormtroopers everywhere and it's only citizens on official business. And
7:46
then you turn it more into obi Wan doing the cat and Mouse on the
7:48
Death Star sort of thing. But then that's rewriting, and so it's like,
7:54
again, it's in retrospect. So I think given those constraints that you
7:57
mentioned, it's successful enough. I mean, I definitely see it, you
8:01
know, I see what you're saying. Um, but I I rewatch this,
8:07
and I'm sorry, it just looks trashy. It looks like trash.
8:09
It's not good. Um, it's not effective. Now. I do think
8:16
that the establishing shots of this place are very cool because it kind of has
8:22
this Blade Runner twenty forty nine feel. But then when you actually get down
8:26
to the planet, there's none of that feel. And and I think part
8:35
of it too, is that it just never does feel real. It always
8:41
feels like you're on a set, but in kind of like, you know,
8:48
a Galaxy's edge kind of way instead of like a real way. And
8:52
and yeah, you know, I always harken back to the fact that you
8:58
made this place basically look like Blade Runner twenty forty nine. And when I
9:03
think of those scenes where you know, heat k is in the food dispensary,
9:09
you know, and there's all those places where terrible things are going on
9:13
behind you know, windows that are fogged out so you can't see. But
9:18
you know what, like it created this sense of this ultimate seediness that this
9:24
place completely lacks. And you know, they have some guys kind of pushing
9:28
each other in the street, and it's just like, well, you know,
9:33
if you if you're gonna have this you know, restrictions or whatever,
9:39
okay, that's fine, but like, you know, have fights going on
9:41
all over the place, you know, in different corners and like people just
9:46
like, uh, you know, because this is a drugged doubt city and
9:50
so people would be acting crazy and whacky and you'd see people running and streaking
9:54
and like it just there's nothing. But see, I'm gonna push back on
10:01
that a little bit because it's like, it's not Portland, okay, but
10:05
no, that's the thing. It should look like Portland on a given No,
10:09
no, no, no, you know, I'll there are parts of
10:13
any city that are really ced, and the thing that makes them ced is
10:20
how desolate they are and how you know, every single person around you is
10:24
a threat or perceives you as a threat, and everybody does keep their distance
10:30
because they're like, you know, I've walked through plenty of parts of town
10:33
where they are the ced terrible parts of town, and there's barely anybody there.
10:41
And that's the thing that's unnerving. The problem is that that's if you're
10:46
going to do that, you have to really go for that, and you
10:50
have to convey that. And that's why I'm saying, like you would have
10:52
to restructure how you planned to shoot everything. I think that gets to what
10:56
you're talking about with shooting on the volume is what the volume robs from you
11:05
is being able to make impromptu decisions. Oh yeah, it requires so much
11:11
careful planning that you can't be spontaneous. And I would say that if you
11:18
had a real set, more of a set that you could redress or shoot
11:22
around, Yes, then that's where the volume fails you here is that you
11:26
can't suddenly change camera angles. And you can't. You can't show up that
11:31
day and say, okay, we can only have ten people here. We
11:35
wanted for fifty, right, Okay, so let's tighten the camera, let's
11:37
turn it around, Let's put three people here and there, Let's have half
11:41
a body standing out behind this structure and give the sense of claustrophobia. But
11:48
you can't even change the cameras. Oh yeah, position exact planning on well.
11:52
And the problem, and this is why I'm so frustrated with this,
11:58
is because and Or does this so well by having created that entire city area,
12:05
and it allowed the actors to do whatever they wanted in the scene.
12:11
They just walked whatever way they wanted, and that freedom and that reality changes
12:18
everything about the perspective. And so I think, sure, you know what
12:26
I'm coming from here is is that there's this expectation that we're doing the world's
12:33
biggest character left in Star Wars to do something about right is Obi Wan Kenobi
12:41
with the actor who played him in the prequel, and that this show so
12:50
far visually does not hold up even to prequels that we're done, you know,
12:58
fifteen years earlier. And I think that's a really because this and and
13:05
my contention is is that this character deserves the best, and they did not
13:09
get the best. Again, I think I'll go back to it. I
13:13
think you're being a little bit too harsh on this because I don't think it's
13:18
that unsuccessful, And in fact, I think that what causes it to feel
13:24
more unsuccessful in a sense to a lot of people is simply the fact that
13:31
there are things that go on too long, and there are things that should
13:37
have been tightened up to begin with. And on this go round. The
13:45
actress they cast as Leia, her too youthful physicality really hampers some things.
13:58
Here. She really looks seven here. Yes, I don't know what her
14:05
real age was, but I know, oh, well, she's small for
14:09
her age. But this is not a ten year old. I know that
14:16
we're dealing with nebulous time. We could say she's we could say they're actually
14:18
eight, we could say they're eleven. You know, it's it's not specific.
14:22
But I do not believe for one second that she is out running or
14:28
getting away from anybody. And this time around, I really caught some of
14:31
the editing cheats that they tried to pull to show that she was. Yeah,
14:41
she didn't have the opportunity to scale up her performance. I guess you
14:48
could say now, I think again, the volume limits you. Because you're
14:52
on set and you say, okay, well we'll do tighter shots, and
14:58
well we'll edit tighter and leaner and will make these chases last a little bit
15:03
less. You can't do that. And I would also challenge as to whether
15:09
they could have done that, because you go back to the first episode,
15:11
they're shooting outdoors and everybody still lovingly teases that chase sequence on all the run.
15:20
So I could they have solved for it. I don't know. Yeah,
15:26
one of the things, and I appreciate you. You know, we
15:28
talked about the fact that the actress who plays Leia is definitely not ten in
15:33
the last episode, and I think the biggest detriment that comes here is that
15:39
her performance is still good. But I think she's meant to come off I
15:48
think as a combination of the Leia we know and kind of that petulant Anakin,
15:54
which works better if she feels more like she's ten instead of seven,
16:00
because I like the idea that she's kind of mouthy like Anakin was, especially
16:07
as you would have expected him to be as he got closer to his teenage
16:11
years, and I like that. I think that's great. I think that
16:18
the most unfortunate thing is is that it doesn't work as well coming from somebody
16:25
who feels more like their seven than they do ten or eleven. And so
16:32
I think that's a real frustration with the this episode specifically, not not the
16:37
whole series overall. It's just this episode where she's, you know, challenging
16:44
Kenobi, and she's she's you know, feeling uneasy and all of those things,
16:48
and again she's being very mouthy to him. And again again, I've
16:56
been through the age of ten twice. I'm not personally. I've got two
17:03
kids who have passed ten. I've got one child who's younger than ten and
17:08
still has some time to go before she gets there, and having gone through
17:12
it and preparing to go through it again, it is in fact, I
17:18
am, in fact supporting what you're saying from a place of experience. My
17:23
children were very precocious in the way that you're talking about, and it's just
17:30
frustrating for me because my child, who is not yet ten, would I
17:37
believe pass for ten more than this actress does. And again couching it very
17:45
very specifically, I'm not faulting the actress. She's very god yeah, this
17:51
is not her fault, and I want to move more to the positive stuff
17:56
of the episode, because there are positive things. I would pose it to
18:02
you that the problem is that there are about i'd say, content wise,
18:07
once you cut out the recap, the intro, the five thousand years of
18:11
credits sort of stuff, there's about what half an hour of content in here,
18:17
even though I know the episode lists is forty something minutes, but there's
18:21
about a half hour of content in here, give or take. I'd say
18:25
that in actuality that feels stretched, and there's really about eighteen minutes of content
18:30
here because there's so much you could trim down and just get too faster.
18:34
And I think that's the difficulty and also the resolution of a lot of the
18:41
issues we're having with the episode is the core of a Star Wars story is
18:48
supposed to be a tightly told narrative. There's a place for the more expansive
18:53
narratives. I'd argue that, and or does that okay? Here and there
18:59
does it pretty well in beats that last longer, and everything feel a little
19:03
bit more, you know, lengthy. But when you get down to it,
19:10
especially the action stuff has to be fast, fast, faster and faster
19:12
and more intense. Yeah, exactly. And the biggest point where this falls
19:18
down and you knew this was coming, and I'm going to go straight for
19:21
it. I'm gonna go straight for the juggular. Here the amount of disappointment
19:26
that I felt in that rooftop chase because I thought it was too clunky,
19:32
and I thought it was it just didn't pace itself the way it needed to.
19:37
I would have cut one of those assassins coming after them on the roof.
19:41
I would have had one, because introducing the second felt unnecessary and muddy,
19:48
and also it made Leia stand there for ver, and it's like,
19:52
if she's supposed to be this impulsive kid, she should have jumped quickly,
19:57
right. But then the amount of disappointment I feel when Riva's there and I
20:06
get no helicopter lightsaber chase over the city. I know that people think this
20:11
is a bit, but helicopter lightsabers are the core of Star Wars to me
20:17
in this sense, they're whimsical, they don't They make no sense except for
20:22
the fact that you look at and you go, that is cool because they
20:26
are cool. They're neat, and they're terrifying if you think about it.
20:30
Where if you're standing there in a galaxy far far away, and all of
20:33
a sudden you see a lightsaber spinning and it's carrying somebody and you know you
20:40
can't escape them, that's you know, that's like a mythological terror or inducing
20:45
moment of the monster is here and I can't get away. And I think
20:52
that also makes the chase go faster. So, with your ambivalence towards the
20:57
helicopter lightsabers on record, don't you think a helicopter lightsaber makes this chase go
21:03
faster and work better? So yeah, I see what you did there,
21:11
and it's not going to work because I hate helicopter lightsabers and I think they're
21:17
terrible, and I don't think you need them to make this Chase better.
21:19
I think what you need to do is that you need tighter editing so that
21:22
we're not taking these long, ridiculous shots of watching run at ridiculously slow speeds
21:32
and pretending like it's going fast. I mean, the editing here is just
21:34
atrocious because there's no sense of urgency to the editing, and the moves are
21:41
happening in ways that don't make them feel cool. It makes them feel so
21:47
rehearsed and silly that I mean, I hate it. I absolutely hate it.
21:56
I think it's terrible. And you know, I know you're such a
22:00
stickler for editing, and to me, this is just an editing nightmare.
22:03
And I think, but I'm saying, you solve the whole problem with the
22:06
helicopter, but I don't think that's how you solve it. I think you
22:08
can solve this with just one. This episode is not particularly shot very well,
22:17
and I think that's one of the biggest problems with it, because all
22:22
of the shots that we're getting don't feel like the right shots to bring this
22:29
to life. There They either feel too tight or too wide. Just there's
22:37
there's nothing that's really working here. And I think a part of that has
22:41
to do with Again, you're so limited about movement on the volume that that
22:48
really hurts things, and it hurts camera placement, it hurts how much a
22:53
you know, a performer can move, and so then that ends up hurting
23:00
editing as well, And so I just don't think that anything about this part
23:04
of the episode was really well done. Now, one moment that I think
23:10
is phenomenal is that moment where Leah finally jumps, and there is this great
23:17
moment of Obi Wan Kenobi having the force awakened in him again and he's terrified
23:26
that it's not going to happen, that she's going to die and it will
23:30
be his fault and another Skywalker will have died on his watch, or at
23:37
least at this point he thinks would have died on his watch. And it's
23:41
another place where this episode has a moment that saves so much of it because
23:48
in all honesty, Gregor is fantastic in this episode, especially in that moment,
23:56
in the moment where he realizes he finds out that Anakin is still alive,
24:02
and I mean the terror and horror, I mean, all of that
24:07
is so well done. The other thing that's great about this episode, I
24:11
think and people might be surprised to hear me say this, but Hodji his
24:18
character feels so Star warsly woguish, where it's a combination of a lot of
24:26
different types of characters that we've gotten in Star Wars, like a Hondo and
24:33
Han kind of basically had a baby and you know, somebody who's kind of
24:37
looking out for themselves but at the same time also doing the right thing.
24:41
And I think it works really well to have him basically be a con artist,
24:48
but that kind of has a little bit of a heart of credits,
24:52
right, you know, like he's not he actually is trying to help people
24:57
out, but you know, he's making some money on the side. And
25:03
I think all of that really works. And so you know, it's it's
25:07
interesting here because as much as there are things that just drive me crazy about
25:11
this episode, there are awesome so things that I do absolutely love. Yeah,
25:17
I think I think he's a good character. I do. Do I
25:21
think he's a great character. No, do I think he's a good character.
25:25
Yes, I think he has the flare you mentioned Hondo. I think
25:29
he has the flare of the type of character i'd see on one of the
25:32
animated series. And I think that nan Gianni does a good job playing him.
25:37
I think it's a little over the top. I agree that at some
25:42
points it could have been. But I'll lay that the feet of the director,
25:48
because she should be able to say, give me that, but just
25:52
pull it back just a little bit, you know, let's let's make it
25:55
a little more Hans solo here. But again, that's okay, that's okay.
26:03
To your point, I think that having his room be smaller would have
26:07
been smarter, Yes, because that felt weird. Yes that it wasn't,
26:11
Yes, And I think it accentuated. It accentuated that sort of thing that
26:18
you know we're talking about where it's like there's too much empty space here.
26:23
Um. I think that the biggest hurdle is that his character has a purpose,
26:37
but even that takes too long to get there, I guess, and
26:47
it sort of highlights some of the other, you know, shortfalls sort of
26:51
thing. I mean. I think though, in terms of character integration,
26:56
probably the biggest character sort fall moment is the Grand Inquisitor's death, because I
27:07
remember all of us seeing that happen, and I think I argued at the
27:12
time, if you'd never watched anything with an inquisitor before. That's a neat
27:18
thing. You know, he's in charge. You know, she just assassinated
27:21
him. If you've watched stuff before, you know he's going to be around
27:23
five years later. And so the speculation was crazy. I was one of
27:26
the people sitting there saying, oh, maybe the Inquisitor is a clone.
27:32
Later, Oh yeah, I said that too. I thought the same day,
27:34
and like we were like, that's the only way we could really resolve
27:37
it. And you know, spoilers, you know, he's alive. You
27:44
know, like there's just this weird thing where if you're a longtime fan,
27:47
it feels like that moment is just tossed off, and so it feels unnecessary
27:52
to put it in there. So why not just have Reva doing cat and
27:56
mouse with Obi Wan and not have the Grand Inquisitor there at all? Because
28:03
it on top of that, when she stabs him, he goes out like
28:07
a punk. It diminishes his character. Yeah, it's like in the Return
28:14
of the Jedi. No, no, no, no, see that one.
28:17
I no, no, don't don't go down that road. No.
28:21
I mean what I'm saying though, is in order to elevate Reva instead of
28:26
actually elevating her, they diminish the Grand Inquisitor, and so so theyish right.
28:33
They don't manage to elevate her, they manage her diminish him. And
28:37
that I think, And I'm going to throw this to you, and I
28:40
don't fault the actress for this at all, But I never really feel a
28:44
sense of menace from Riva. I'm never afraid of her Grand Inquisitor. Afraid
28:49
is the wrong word, but I feel menace from him. Yeah, I
28:52
think it's the choice of performance, you know. I think if the performance
28:57
comes off more like a Shakespearean villain, I think that really helps. And
29:07
so instead of she I feel like she's playing it more like a petulant child
29:14
here from a modern film, and it needs to feel like, you know,
29:22
the same way that Vader or the Emperor or the Grand Inquisitor from the
29:26
Rebels series, you know, all of these, you know, Grand Moff
29:32
Tarkan from all the animated stuff to you know what we get in Star Wars
29:37
or Rogue One. There's a specific cadence to Star Wars villains that creates this
29:47
sense of menace. And yeah, I agree with you. I don't think
29:52
that she has it. And so in Christy, you and I on the
29:56
six or two Club. I've talked about this many of times, where you
30:00
are not servicing one character by making another character basically feel weaker, you're absolutely
30:10
hurting the character you're trying to make feel stronger. And most and unfortunately most
30:17
of the time, it does a disservice to female characters because you're making the
30:22
male character that they're going up against seem dumber and or just not as competent,
30:30
which doesn't make your female lead look more competent. It just makes them
30:34
look less accomplished. And that's exactly the opposite of what you're trying to go
30:41
for. And that goes for any character, right like you you don't have
30:45
to you know, you don't have to have this as just be you know,
30:53
in a male female format. I mean this is also I think in
31:00
any combination of characters. You just don't want to do this. It's it's
31:03
not great writing. But I think on another side, one of the things
31:08
that this episode does do well is it takes into account the fact that Obi
31:12
Wan Kenobi has made a habit of having friends in low places and his understanding
31:21
about how the underworld works from especially if you're coming into this having seen all
31:29
the animated stuff. Him being able to navigate this world the way that he
31:33
does feels perfect. And and you know, realizing too that he's also been
31:41
navigating this world for a while now too, on tattooing, you know,
31:45
and having to you know, find a way to fit in. And so
31:52
I thought that that was a place where things are really well done. And
31:57
then one last thing that I think is rate is when obi Wan tells Leia
32:04
that, you know, she reminds him of someone, and I love that.
32:09
You can take this a couple of ways. I think he's most likely
32:15
referring to Setine, but it also works perfectly for Padmey, which are the
32:22
in many ways, these are the two most important women that have been in
32:25
his life. You know, he has such a ongoing he had such an
32:31
ongoing relationship with padme because of all the adventures that they had together and Anakin,
32:38
and then of course, you know, the love of his life,
32:42
Settine, And so I really like how that line plays both ways, and
32:49
it means a lot, especially when he's talking to Leia and so and it
32:54
just I think it also does a great job in this episode of then accentuating
33:04
as we have in a series so far, how broken this character is because
33:10
of how much they've lost, And I thought that that was another Just you
33:19
mentioned there being a lot of small moments in this episode that are really good,
33:22
and I think this is that that was one of the best. Well,
33:24
speaking of small moments, I agree with you, and I think speaking
33:28
of small moments, it's a big moment. I mean, everybody talked about
33:32
his reaction when he finds out that Vader was alive, and I love the
33:39
fact that they stated on screen something that true Diehard fans have been shouting at
33:45
people for years, that he did not leave Anakin thinking he was alive.
33:52
He thought Anakin was dead. And for years everybody had the lame joke where
33:58
they're like, oh, well he just walked to wherey well, no,
34:00
no, he thought Anakin was done. And so to have that moment finally
34:07
where somebody says lord, and it's not even when she says oh Anakin skywell
34:12
she says Lord Vader, that's the moment where he goes what And it's beautifully
34:17
played. That is masterful acting right there. But I think in terms of
34:22
small moments as well, one of the ones that I think is beautiful.
34:27
Although if I were the audio engineer or I'm sorry, the sound editor on
34:32
it, I would have layered something extra over it. But when he sees
34:37
the old clone begging for coins that moment, yes, it was great.
34:44
The one thing I would have done audio wise is I would have overlaid as
34:49
an echo the way that in episode three when Palpatine says, remember what you
34:53
told me about the sad people and your mama, when you hear that faint
35:00
scream and then it goes into another background sound of of you know, the
35:04
ship's firing and exploding. I would have had something where you hear from obi
35:12
Wan's brains perspective, the Clones calling for you know, Cody saying fire right,
35:19
and the explosion, and then even hearing Boga screaming yea faded into crowd
35:27
noise, so that you get the sense that these are actually two veterans of
35:31
the of the war. And it makes obi Wan's move to donate the coins
35:37
so much more meaningful because you realize these are both guys who have been traumatized
35:45
and cast aside now that their usefulness has gone, and obi Wan is making
35:52
the conscious choice to contribute to somebody who helped murder the only people he ever
36:00
knew, his family. That's a powerful moment, powerful moment, and I
36:07
just think that little tweak would have made it hit so much harder. I
36:09
think that's an excellent point, and it goes to in these first couple of
36:15
episodes that in some ways they're kind of looking for spectacle in all the wrong
36:22
places. Because what's really powerful about this series are these character moments. Because
36:30
this show is called Obi Wan Kenobi. He's the main character, so everything
36:36
should revolve specifically around him and his journey. Everything else is tangential to making
36:44
sure that he goes from point A to point B to point C by the
36:50
end of the season. And there are places, I think, specifically in
36:57
editing the way things are shot, choices that they're making story wise so far
37:01
that are almost there but they're missing. And I think that's a key moment
37:08
right there, to say you missed ten seconds worth of screen time that adds
37:17
so much to the psychology of this character and their trauma in a way that
37:27
would have taken nothing to do, right, I mean nothing that you know
37:32
what that's that. I think you just put your finger on it. You
37:37
helped coalesce it right there. What we're seeing here, and I'm not going
37:42
to fault Chow. I think that Deborah Chow as a director. I think
37:45
she's very talented, and I think that we reference all of the stuff.
37:50
I think that she's a director doing the best she can with these new You
37:52
know, again, everybody was on their heels. But in post, specifically
37:58
in post, what's missing are the people in post that would push and get
38:05
crazy experimental, because those were the people that Lucas or Felony or anybody else
38:15
would rely on, who would come in and say. I always think of
38:20
episode three when I think it was like Ben Burt and there was like some
38:27
other guy and he was in charge of like one was in charge of music
38:30
on the track. One was in charge of the effects on the track.
38:35
And there's a moment where they're screening the opening battle and they're arguing. They're
38:38
flat out arguing, and Lucas is sitting there and he says something like,
38:44
I've been listening to this argument for the last thirty years, you know,
38:46
something like something like, oh, these guys have just been going at it
38:50
NonStop, right, But that's that's the spark I think we're missing in all
38:57
honesty is we're getting people who are very competently putting things together from a craft
39:04
perspective, where they're given a task and they say we have to do this,
39:07
and they put it together, and they put it together well. But
39:12
you don't have that left field throw of somebody coming in and saying what about
39:20
that? Though putting it out there and saying listen to this, look at
39:23
this, tighten this, to give the director the opportunity to say, oh,
39:30
oh yeah, that's even better. You know, when you're a director,
39:35
you're steering the ship, you're putting it together, and then the people
39:37
around you it's their job to try to bend the rules and take the helm
39:45
and if they find a new direction for you, that's good. Then your
39:49
job as a leader is to say you're right. But the converse of that
39:54
is if nobody, if everybody's saying right, boss, that's just what I'm
39:59
going to do, that's a whole different conversation because they're not giving you those
40:05
ideas that you didn't think of. And I know it sounds like I'm trashing
40:08
the episode, and I'm not, well, I think this is a good
40:10
episode, and I do, but I think that it's those little tiny things
40:15
where my sense is that there weren't there wasn't a push. I think i've
40:23
overall and a larger thing here is that there is a way to make Star
40:35
Wars, and part of making Star Wars actually comes to the editing room.
40:39
I think you're rightly putting your finger on something that people don't realize how much
40:45
of Star Wars was made in the editing room, especially the original trilogy.
40:51
You know, and you know you look at just look at the deleted scenes
40:55
or the longer cuts of scenes. I mean, is the scene and Empire
41:00
strikes back in the hallway with Han and Leia. It's a much longer scene.
41:07
It's terrible, and because of the way that it's edited, it creates
41:14
this snappy back and forth. It gives you everything that you think of with
41:17
the characters, and all of that is done in editing, and so I
41:23
think many of these things could be ameliorated with better editing and those little moments
41:34
where you find something in the edit. And I think there's a conventional way
41:38
to edit, and then there's the Star Wars way to edit, and Star
41:44
Wars editing is story editing, and I think that it's It's pretty clear to
41:52
me that there are places still in Star Wars where you have some people bowl
42:00
behind the scenes that just aren't quite as familiar with what it takes to make
42:05
Star Wars. And that's not necessarily a knock upon them. It's more a
42:09
knock on the people hiring them and not giving them what they need to be
42:15
as successful as they could be, probably with the right little pushes, right,
42:22
you know. I mean, Dave Filoni isn't who he is without George
42:24
Lucas being by his side for ten years teaching him how to make Star Wars,
42:29
you know. And then all the people who worked with Dave and George
42:34
on the Clone Wars aren't the same people then who get to make Rebels and
42:38
the Bad Batch, and you know, so that those things feel so successful
42:44
because of all the Tales of the Jedi, Tales of the Jedi. Thank
42:46
you, absolutely cannot free it, Tales of the Jedi. So but I
42:51
also think the thing about this is that it isn't all completely the same because
42:57
Tales of the Jedi it's a completely different animal from something say like and Or.
43:02
But again, I think it's very successful in the way it finds a
43:07
way to tell a Star Wars story in the genre it's using, but it's
43:13
not exactly the same as Tales the Jedi. So it's interesting to me because
43:19
I feel like you like this episode more than I do. Yeah, I
43:22
think I do, and so far, you know, the massive obi Wan
43:29
fan is a huge curmudgeon for this series at this point, and it's been
43:34
hard for me, honestly to rewatch it, and instead of responding better,
43:38
I'm having the same feelings. And so I am very much hoping that as
43:44
we move through the season that things do get better. And I remember that
43:49
I felt like the first two episodes were the weakest in my recollection and everything
43:53
else was better, and so I'm excited to get to you know, episode
44:00
three through six now and really see what happens here. And but you know,
44:07
John, if people wanted to catch up with you and just lament the
44:12
fact that apparently Matt Rushing hates obi Wan Kenobi, where can people find you?
44:16
Oh, I hope everybody joins in the hashtag stop obi Wan hate and
44:22
tweets it at you, master Rushing, because you are at Rushing zero two
44:25
everywhere, and so it would be a shame if everybody mounted a campaign and
44:30
use the hashtag stop obi wan Hate and tweeted it just at at Matt Rushing
44:37
zero two. You can find me as Kessel Junkie leading that charge, making
44:40
it viral on Twitter and other places, especially on Letterbox Kessel Junkie on Letterbox,
44:45
that's where I have a lot of fun. And you can find me
44:49
right here on the network where I am co hosting a show called house Lights
44:53
where we look at the work of directors through different lenses and eras and blah
44:59
blah blah, all stuff Tristan Riddell, Darren Moser, and then you can
45:04
find me guesting quite a bit over on the six o two Club over on
45:07
TFM, which is the show that you Master Rushing are most known for over
45:13
there. True, it's also the show where we met, so check that
45:16
out. Like John mentioned, you can find me as Matt Rushing zero two
45:21
all over Twitter, Instagram, Letterbox of vow. We should really get the
45:24
hashtag going make better Star Wars and so you can just tweet that at John
45:31
and just anybody make better Star Wars that that should just be the hashtag that
45:36
we go with. Of course, you could find me here on the network
45:38
with owl post talking about every single chapter the Harry Potter Series one Chapter of
45:43
the Time on the TFM network. When I'm not doing the six O two
45:45
Club, you can find me doing literary treks, the orb Warp, five
45:49
Saddle Up, and the Artificial Tango. But you know what, John,
45:52
I hear the chimes at midnight or I'm sorry, the chimes of the Jedi
45:59
Temple, and so I think it's time for us to head back and close
46:02
these negotiations. Master rushing, negotiations are closed. Join the Revolution, Join
46:17
the Nerd Party.