Latest / The Deciding Factor by Edward Jones / Betting on Yourself: The Psychology of the Leap with Morgan DeBaun, founder and CEO of Blavity Inc.
Transcript
- speaker-0: My thing was I did not want to regret not taking a chance on myself and betting on myself, especially in a time where people were making a lot of money and and raising a ton of money on just ideas on a napkin. Yeah. And pitches that they were, you know, just coming up with and saying out loud. I felt like that was a really big market shift. Yeah. And people were really into investing in young folks. Yeah. Right. There was people who were. twenty two, twenty-three, you know, the Mark Zuckerbergs of the world were really the the stars of the Bay Area. Yeah. And why not me? speaker-1: Yeah. A lot of us have had that daydream, the one where you quit your job and start building something of your own. But giving up a consistent paycheck to become an entrepreneur is a trade-off most people just aren't willing to make. Welcome to the Deciding Factor, where we explore pivotal moments in our lives and how we make decisions when it matters most. I'm behavioral scientist Zarak Khan. Today, we're looking at the psychology of leaving security behind to launch a business. Our guest is Morgan DeBon. A serial entrepreneur, small business advisor, and the founder and CEO of Blavity Inc. But first, we'll hear from Caitlin Pierce. After teaching high school English and working as a podcast producer, Caitlin launched Lady Chiller, a premium cocktail ice company in Richmond, Virginia. With no background in manufacturing, Caitlin now works in her production facility using an industrial bandsaw to cut through 300-pound blocks of ice. Caitlin, thanks so much for joining me on The Deciding Factor. speaker-2: Thanks for having me. speaker-1: I appreciate it even more because as a small business owner, for you, time is ice and ice is money. and so I appreciate you taking the time. Yeah. I feel like ice is maybe a little bit underappreciated. I'm curious how did you first chance upon this idea of there's an opportunity for craft ice business here in Richmond. speaker-2: Well, we are in like a small town. and I knew that it was that the bartenders here had to get their ice from out of town. So they were a lot of them getting them from Virginia Beach, which is about two hours from here. Some were even going as far as Maryland. So states away. And it was something that there I mean, honestly, a lot of the ice business is just like freezer space, which restaurants and bars don't have a ton of. Yeah. So if they're going to have to go that far or get a delivery from that far away, they had to get enough for like a month or so. Yeah. And so I knew there was opportunity here to for someone to be able to supply ice more more speaker-1: Yeah. Well so it seems like there's like the seed of an idea here, but it has to land on some kind of fertile ground for that to take root, right? So what's going on with you where you're like, like I kinda wanna consider pursuing this? speaker-2: I think it was like one of those things where you're with friends and you're like, what if we, you know, like did this ridiculous thing and then it just kept going. Yeah. Like too far. I was a podcast producer before this, and I was a freelancer, and I had a lot of trouble getting work around this time. The industry had changed a lot. There were a lot of layoffs, and I had a lot of free time. So it was something I had a couple of friends at the time who were interested in doing the business with me. Yeah. And so we were all working on it together. And I that definitely took it to the next level. But basically it was just really interesting. Like the whole process is something that I don't know anything about. And it is very just like badass and totally something I had not encountered a lot of. the things that go into it before. speaker-1: How do you make a perfect ice cube? speaker-2: Well, so we start by making 300 pound blocks of ice. So they're 40 by 20 by 10 inches. And you get them, it takes about 27 gallons of water and three to five days to freeze, depending on the weather. And after so the block freezes directionally, so you fill the machine. And then it freezes from the bottom up and then there's a bubbler running on top to make sure it doesn't freeze from the top. Okay. And then you hoist it out with the hoist that's specifically made for it. And then you start to break it down all the way until it's a two inch by two inch cube. speaker-1: I mean, it sounds like I mean, yeah, like kind of a badass thing to do. Like you have you're hauling around three hundred pound blocks of ice, you're wielding a chainsaw or a bandsaw or other heavy machinery that maybe you're repurposing to do something with ice with but otherwise would be used in construction or some kind of, you know, I don't know, hobbyist activity. What has that been like? Is that is that difficult? Is that an empowering kind of thing? A bit of both? speaker-2: really scary. It was like really, really scary. I remember the first time I harvested blocks, which like in retrospect, I look back and I'm like, wow, I should have left those go if a couple more days they were tiny. But at the time it was really intense and I remember my heart just like pounding, you know. and I went now I just do it every day without thinking about it. It's not that big of a deal. Yeah. speaker-1: So walk me through the early kind of days of speaker-2: We actually went together to Nashville and were really generously had like open arms to us from Bar Alliance there and the guy who runs at Matt spent hours and hours talking us through like every little step. I wouldn't have started the business if they hadn't been so generous with their time. speaker-1: What's the response been like here since you started? speaker-2: s everyone's so nice and supportive. I mean, people are really happy to have just like a consistent local ice supplier. Yeah. And I've also been really surprised. So I started doing sculpture a few months a just a few months ago. And there is a huge sculpture market here too. Yeah. So yeah, the demand is here and no one was doing it. speaker-1: What did you either know about yourself going into this or learn about yourself in those early days as you were forming the plan for Lady Jill? speaker-2: Mm. I mean, I know I'm like good at figuring shit out. Yeah. So I I kind of trusted that I could do that. I mean, I think also just knowing production. Yeah. And knowing that like I know how to take something. And this is from I also was a high school teacher. And it's ever I I always say like everything's production. It's the same thing of like you know what you want at the end. Yeah. And then you just walk backwards. Yeah. And then you just do those steps. speaker-1: I think a lot of people kind of fantasize of starting a business partly because they want to be their own boss. What's your lesson or guidance for people who have that thought? speaker-2: I think you have to sign up for the journey. Like I think if you wanna start your own business for, you know, to make money or like any I mean, which it would be legitimate, you know. Classic, speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: you know, don't do that. I think you should yeah, just sign up for like you you want it's start your business because you wanna do that. Yeah. And you wanna like run a business. speaker-1: You want to spend your time that way? speaker-2: Yeah, it's like Lady Chiller is my boss. Yeah. I think it's just like at the end of the day, it's still my choice to be here, you know. And I guess like if you have a job, you can still quit. Yeah, you know, but at the end of the day, like when I am here late at night or y really going through it, like I'm s I'm still like choosing it. Yeah. And that is really important to me. Like the being able to choose and having that freedom. Yeah. Even though sometimes it doesn't feel like freedom doesn't always it doesn't always make you free. Yeah, right. speaker-1: Right, yeah. So Caitlin, you've done a ton of preparation before you launched Lady Chiller, but did you still have any doubts or fears as you were doing that and how did you get past those? speaker-2: totally. I for for example, I spent seven thousand dollars on a meat gray bandsaw and had never used one before. So even just the learning how to use the equipment and figuring out what I needed to do every single day was completely uncomfortable and something yeah, a totally new experience. And when you have tens of thousands of dollars on gambling on yourself for something you've never done before, it makes it pretty high stakes. speaker-1: So Caitlin, I think there's like a a mythos around founders and entrepreneurs and it's as though, you know, it's something that you're kind of born with, like an innate quality or personality trait or something like that. Where do you kinda land on this? speaker-2: I definitely do not feel like it's innate or something I was born with. You have to have a lot of drive. Like you have to really wanna do it. It's almost like being a single parent and like it's having a kid in a way of like I don't know what's gonna this kid's gonna be like. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I know there's gonna be good days and bad days and all that thing, but like at the end of the day, it's my kid and like I have to get up in the middle of the night and like feed it or whatever. You don't know what it's gonna be. I think it's definitely something anyone can learn. And I think you have to like be delusional about the right things. Okay. So I think a lot of times when I see businesses fail or understand that, I think they're delusional in the wrong ways. speaker-1: Tell me the what's the right way or the wrong way? speaker-2: I think you have to be delusional about your like your own what you are capable of. Uh-huh. Because like I definitely was. And even though it was like really scary, I still at the end of the day, right, I wouldn't have done this if I wasn't like, I can figure that out. And then you have to. Yeah. And I think people I think you have to like really look at the numbers. Like do the do the homework. Yeah. Yeah. And like make the make the spreadsheet. Yeah. Make a sad spreadsheet. Yeah. You know, like make it it's like if this if this is way more expensive than you think it's gonna be, which Which it will be, yes. And if you have way fewer sales than you think, which will what does the spreadsheet look like? And like really look at that. speaker-1: In any new business, things are inevitably gonna go wrong or kinda go off the rails or they're not how you planned. How do you handle the emotional aspect? speaker-2: that. I think it's just like having perspective, like knowing that this is a luxury product and it's gonna be gone in a few hours and that we're here to provide an experience and we're gonna do the best we can, but the important thing is that we're kind and safe and and as long as those things are there then everything else is just like great. speaker-1: The ice is gonna be gone in a few hours, but your fingers have to be here tomorrow. speaker-2: Exactly. I always say ten fingers, you know, and that's way more important than how thousands of ice cubes. Right. speaker-1: Joining me now is Morgan DeBon. Morgan's a serial entrepreneur, corporate advisor, and the founder and CEO of Afrotech and Blavity Inc., the leading digital media company for black culture and millennials. Morgan has defied the odds in more ways than one. At 24, she left behind a coveted Silicon Valley job and turned what was then a side hustle into a thriving media empire. Along the way, she raised more than $12 million from top venture firms, overcoming barriers facing black female entrepreneurs. In addition to running Blavity, Morgan advises entrepreneurs on launching and scaling their businesses. In her book, Rewrite Your Rules, she offers a framework for achieving success on your own terms. Today, she's sharing some of those insights with us. Morgan, it's a pleasure to have you here on The Deciding Factor. speaker-0: Thanks for having me. speaker-1: I am kind of curious to hear about your journey, and I want to start sort of at the beginning. I'm always interested when I'm chatting with folks who are entrepreneurs. Was this something that was like kind of a part of your life from the beginning. What was a very young little baby Morgan like? Yeah. speaker-0: Always a hustler, I was always an entrepreneur. One story in middle school, they banned candy in the vending machines, and so I went to Sam's Club and bought a bunch of candy and started reselling it out of my locker, which was very much against the rules. Yes. but like my book says, rewrite your rules. I didn't really care. It's like, you know, ask for forgiveness. It's very much my motto. I made a couple bucks, but yeah, I definitely was always speaker-1: Was there somebody in your life where you kind of learned about entrepreneurship or sort of modeled it? like why did you think, I should fill this gap in the candy market? speaker-0: Hmm. I think my parents definitely encouraged me to solve problems, you know, not just complain about something. If I was frustrated with something or I wanted something or there was something that had friction, they were very much empowered me at a young age to be like, ask the question, like, why don't you ask? Or why don't you ask the principal that question? Why don't you ask your teacher that question? Or why don't you ask the doctor that question? So I think that they always instilled a level of curiosity. And then also I think. They taught me to leverage seeing things that other people might not see. speaker-1: So kind of walk me through between middle school and and washi you, 'cause you're graduating at the top of your class in Washi U. Had you had these sort of entrepreneurial activities sort of building up until then? speaker-0: Hmm. You know, I think that I was definitely organizing. I was definitely leading. I was volunteering and I was in Model United Nations and I was doing a lot of like leadership and development, I would say. Not intentionally, just things that I was interested in. Right. And then when I went to to Washi, I mean, Washi has such an amazing student government and and lots of campus activities. one of the cool things is that we had a one point four million dollar student budget and the students actually got to pick how it was allocated. So the moment that I heard that, I said speaker-1: I would like to be a decision maker here. Yeah. speaker-0: So I ran for student body president actually as a sophomore and won. And so I was in charge of that one point four million at a very young age and was I mean, I couldn't even legally do much. Right. But I had that control and yeah, I think that was the beginning of me really getting a taste of like what power and money can look like and then also advocating for the people that you care about. speaker-1: When you have been developing all of these skills, you know, like a skill in kind of seeing where opportunities might exist, skill in leading people or making decisions. and you're starting to see the culmination of that. Of course, it wash you where you're graduating top of your class, but then you move to Silicon Valley and you take this job at Intuit. and so tell me a little bit about like your time there. And then at some point, you know, you start to think about something beyond that as well. speaker-0: Absolutely. So I moved to Silicon Valley. Well, first I have to start with how I got there. Yeah. I didn't really know anything about Silicon Valley at all. I started applying to products that I used and I used really cool products that Intuit has. And from there I said, well, let me just apply to the company that owns these products, moved out to the Bay Area. And I really focused on innovation being a skill that I felt like I could learn. And I think as an entrepreneur, you have to decide what are the leadership skills that I want to be really good at. And where can I become really good at those skills? Yeah. where are their models of excellence? Where are their leaders that I want to learn from? And Silicon Valley is like just one of the top places, especially at the time 15 years ago, where a lot of things were being created from scratch. Yeah. so I moved there, loved it. loved learning, loved seeing how things were created for billions of people. Yeah. But I felt like They weren't being built for people like me. And we were never the target customer. People of color, women were never the primary user. And I felt like that was just such an opportunity to say, Well, what does it look like to put people who are left out as your center? Yeah. And that was the beginning of of starting to create and think about what Blabity could look like. speaker-1: So Morgan, tell me about the original vision for Blavity. speaker-0: We have a huge population of black people in this country and people who love black culture. but we were underfunded and advertisers weren't spending a lot of money on marketing and advertising to reach this highly influential group in the world. And if I could create a platform and essentially own the attention of this community and equip them with information, resources, experiences, and basically a 360 kind of vision of how we were going to solve problems for this community. then inevitably we would become successful. You know, one of the things that I really like about the Intuit culture is that they do believe in in internal entrepreneurship and entrepreneurship. Yeah. so they were very open to people coming up with new ideas, to tinkering, to building their own kind of MVPs of products. And I tried that. I was like, great, let's give it a go. What I had a struggle with was the level of red tape that you had to go through, which obviously now I I realize in hindsight, you know. I was twenty two at the time, so I was like, This is just a lot of rigum speaker-1: Right, right. speaker-0: to get this idea into the app store. Yeah. but speaker-1: The blessing and the curse of a big company, I think too, right? Exactly. speaker-0: and so I I what I did was I projected myself into the future and said, Well, how long will it take for me to become the person who can just make the decision? Yeah. How many levels do I have to get to from product manager to director to group director to associate vice president to vice president to C level, right? Like there's just a lot of layers. And that was when I said, All right, so I need to come up with my exit plan. speaker-1: Is there a certain, you know, kind of breaking point or moment where you're like, I've just got to go all in on this? speaker-0: The moment where I said, I gotta go, like time is money and also time is impact was when Mike Brown was murdered. And being from St. Louis, I felt it deeply. You know, I went to Washiu. I s had friends that needed, you know, bail money that were getting arrested. People were protesting, gas stations were on fire. I mean, we know what it was like here. Yeah. And I was sitting in San Francisco in a cubicle with dogs and beer pong. Yeah. And like my brain just like could not reconcile spending another day yeah splitting my time attention gifts and energy. Yeah. And I said, I'm out. Yeah. So within two weeks of that happening, I said, I'm done. Well, let me tell you my parents were not happy. You know, they were like, you got this great job. Yeah. You don't really have that many skills. Like you just kind of happen stanced into it. That's their speaker-1: Is that your eyes that that sounds very much like the parent point of view here, but okay. speaker-0: And you had a great salary. Yeah. You know, what are you talking about? You want to leave. Yeah. and you like it. Yeah. And my thing was I did not want to regret not taking a chance on myself and not betting on myself, especially in a time where people were making a lot of money and and raising a ton of money on just ideas on a napkin. Yeah. And pitches that they were, you know, just coming up with and saying out loud. Yeah. I felt like that was a really big market shift. Yeah. And people were really into investing in young folks. Yeah. Right. There was people who were twenty two, twenty three, you know, the Mark Zuckerbergs of the world were really the the stars of the Bay Area. Yeah. And why not me? Yeah. speaker-1: You're hitting like a really important skill here, I think, which is in making a decision and thinking about the future, one useful decision-making criteria is thinking about regret avoidance. You know, like if I'm projecting forward, it's a skill that you have, right? And then thinking about what's something that I don't want to regret down the line, like trying this thing or taking a bet on myself is often one of those things that people think of. speaker-0: When I have a goal, I then say, This is my goal no matter what. How do I de-risk it? Right. So putting myself in a position, and this is for any entrepreneur that's thinking about building a business, you don't try to de-risk the business by changing your ambition. You say, How do I put myself around other people who have the same ambition? How do I make other people invest in me so that my ambition becomes their ambition? So that you insulate yourself from some of the risk. It doesn't mean the risk isn't there, right? It it just means that. you have proactively managed it. speaker-1: So Morgan, I like how you're talking about some of the practicalities that you navigated in starting Blavity as well. And it reminds me of the framework in your book, the sort of six pillars. I'm wondering, can you just walk through these for me? Because I loved the description and I love what you encompass with those. speaker-0: So in my book, I talk a lot about you can accomplish everything that you want to accomplish. You probably can't accomplish everything at the same time. Right. Everyone kind of says that. Yeah. But then no one really breaks down how do you think through what your priority pillars are. Yeah. And in my opinion, you can only do three at once. So you've got freedom, stability, money, relationships, and passions. And those are the different pillars that make up an abundant life. Yeah. Right. But if you want freedom. stability, money, you might have to temporarily not be trying to build your whole family. Yeah. Right. Or, you know, spend your nights and your weekends frolicking at brunch or dinners or whatever. You might need to be really locked in because you're aiming for making more money and stability and having more freedom in your life. Yeah. If you're really focused on, you know, meeting your perfect life partner and exploring who you are as a person and your passions, you might need to take a step back at work. Yeah. You can't work 40 hours. hours of 50, 60 hours a week plus weekends to do that. So there's just constantly this ebb and flow of how we manage our lives. And the book and that framework is really just an invitation to decide for what season that you're in, how do you want to prioritize these pillows? speaker-1: So well tell me a little bit, let's let's extend that idea a little bit of just like the hardships that you encounter when you're starting a business. What are some of the hardships that people should sort of anticipate, or maybe more importantly, what are the skills that they should employ in navigating these hardships just generally? speaker-0: The number one way that your business will die is if you lose money and you run out of it. Okay. So people need to focus on making money. I think too many people are focused on trying to get out of a situation. They might be starting a business because they want to leave their job. They might be starting a business because they don't have a job. Yeah. And they needed to replace their income. Yeah. Great. That's a good motivation to get going. Yeah. That can't be the reason you start a business. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, if you don't know how to make money. If you don't know how to manage the cash flow that's coming in, where to invest, where to spend, when do you start taking, you know, an income for yourself versus reinvesting it back into the business, those are going to be things that become very difficult for you to manage the bigger that you get. It doesn't get easier. I can tell you when your payroll is millions of dollars every month, you don't have a lot of wiggle room. Yeah. Right. It's much easier when your payroll is only you. Yeah. So figuring out how you're going to manage money is an underrated Focus for entrepreneurs. It seems so simple. speaker-1: There is this psychological, I think, dimension to this as well of building a sense of resilience where you're not you're you're going to have to confront these situations and navigate them in a way that might require you to make hard decisions or to pivot or to face rejection in some way. How did you handle that rejection if you faced it? And what kind of kept you moving forward? speaker-0: There a time when I almost stopped when I was like, I'm over it. I'm out. I don't want to do this. I'm going back to corporate. Yeah. I was raising my first round of funding and I, you know, I'd bootstrapped the business for about nine months, but we were burning through our money because we had huge server costs. Our traffic had grown to over a million monthly unique visitors. And I said, Well, it's like we gotta we gotta raise some money here. Yeah, like your girl's running out. Okay. And I went out to fundraise from people who look like me. I thought, okay, let me go after people who are gonna understand the problem that I'm solving for. They're gonna understand, you know, the market trends that we're going after. And everyone said no. Mm-hmm. And it broke my heart. Yeah. I mean, I was like on the floor crying. Like, if they don't get it, who will? Yeah. Like if the people who are close to this problem don't understand how important it is for us to solve it. Yeah. I'm this isn't gonna work. Yeah. And at that moment I could have easily said, I'm done. I wasn't that far out of corporate, maybe not a year. Yeah. You know, and I still had my consulting job. So I was complaining to one of my friends at like a founder meetup, an entrepreneurship meetup, again, having that network of people around you. And he was like, Well, let me just we just take one more meeting. And I took that meeting. and he that meeting introduced me to our first investor, who was a social impact investor, which is an investor who basically says, I care about the outcome. I care about the market you're serving, but I also care about how you do it. Yeah. And they believed that if Blabbity was to be successful, the impact that it would have would be so significant. They were right. Luckily. Yeah. You know, this was 12 years ago. It was just me in a spreadsheet. Yeah. but I think that when it comes to how do you decide when to keep going and when to say that friction is real. You have to be really clear about who you're solving for. Like be married. To the problem and the community. Do not be married to the solution. Turns out what I was pitching to all those investors was a bad solution and they didn't they didn't agree with it. But when I was in the heat of my like exhaustion from fundraising, I really spoke to who I was trying to solve a problem to and for, and that was what resonated with the investor. Yeah. Not how I was gonna do it. They're like, I don't know if this little newsletter is gonna make it or not make it. But I believe that she is passionate about this and that she's gonna have the grit to figure it out. speaker-1: So, Morgan, one of the things that entrepreneurs I think often face is just fear or anxiety. You know, you fear kind of the unknown and taking that first step. you fear making the wrong decision. And that fear can be paralyzing at times. but sometimes maybe it can be useful. I'm curious, like what practical advice you might have for entrepreneurs in managing that fear. speaker-0: You know, fear is one of the best motivators for an entrepreneur because fear is an indication of some something needs to be managed. So whether it's an internal friction, an external friction, there's something telling you that you need to listen and be quiet. So one of the best skills that you can develop as an entrepreneur is figuring out how do you get into your quiet zone? How do you get grounded so that you can actually work through what's going on? Yeah. So for me, that's like painting. So if I'm really in like a, I am overwhelmed, I'm tired, I don't like these people that I'm working for right now. I'm annoyed by my clients. I'm like, all right, I need to make some time for myself. And that's not always easy to do. I've got kids, you know, family. but I know that in order to be a good leader, I have to have clarity. Yeah. I'm reactive instead of proactive, or I am emotionally constantly going back and forth because I'm not grounded. Yeah. It impacts everyone around me. Yeah. And if you are constantly reacting, then your business will never move forward. You want to stay focused or you limit the amount of time that you're allowing yourself to wallow. Yeah. Or you're limiting the amount of time that you like you can complain about something. Yeah. You know? So fear is just an indicator of some other emotion, in my opinion. Yeah. And that you got to figure out how to get down to what that emotion truly is. speaker-1: I think it's great guidance. in in behavioral science, we use this phrase of emotional reappraisal where you can sort of say, okay, like what am I feeling? And is that actually like the feeling that I have, right? So I often give this guidance for folks when they're doing like public speaking because they're very, you know, anxious about this or they feel a lot of fear. And the feeling in your body of of anxiety is actually pretty close to the feeling of excitement sometimes, right? And so I I love your point here of of You really want to be specific about what am I feeling, you know? Is this fear? Is this anxiety? Is it excitement? speaker-0: Or worst case, best case, right? You know I will run that through my mind as well. Yeah. What's the worst case scenario? Yeah. I come in here, I fall on my face. Yeah. You know, everybody laughs. I get up. Yeah. That's the worst case scenario in public speaking. Yeah. Best case scenario, nobody knows. Right. And I kill it. And everyone's like, she's the best speaker on earth. I wanna book her for every single thing. speaker-1: You mentioned this earlier and it's one of the really powerful messages in your book is this idea that to be a successful entrepreneur, you need to first define your purpose. and so I think you wrote, purpose fuels resilience and it helps you uncover a vision for your life. So when you were launching Blavity, what was your purpose? And do you still have that same sense of purpose today? speaker-0: Absolutely. My purpose has always been to help the underdog, to bring resources, knowledge, social capital to people who are overlooked in this country and figure out how they can get that information so that they can help themselves. And everything that we do at Blavity through AfroTech, our huge community for black folks in technology and business, to travel to our brand that helps people discover the world and travel throughout the diaspora, like It's all about people being able to have the tools and resources to be their best selves and not be dependent on anybody else to get it done. I think that that purpose for me has evolved. You know, being a founder is very different than being a CEO. So when you're a founder, you're like, you know, the world is your oyster. You can create anything. When you're a CEO, you've already built something and now you've got to manage it and now you've got to lead it through the ups and the downs and the lefts and the rights of the world. And even as we have grown, I've had to reevaluate, am I personally living in my purpose, in my current role, even within my own company? What are the things that I'm doing that no longer serve the purpose that I set out to do? And who else can I give that to? speaker-1: So Morgan, what's the parting advice that you might have for somebody who is just at the very beginning of this journey and thinking about taking that first step? speaker-0: You should really center yourself on getting married to the problem, getting married to the the person, the customer, even if it's really small. If you're like, I know everything about her though, and I want to solve her problem. And if you start with one person and then you find someone else that's like her, then you find someone else who's like her, I promise you it will work out for you. Do not get attached to how you want to solve that problem. Do not get attached to I'm launching this app, I'm launching this website, don't get attached to the how. Get attached to solving the problem and make sure that you are spending time really understanding the emotional part of it, the financial part of it. And that's gonna help set you apart from any other business owner that's getting started. And it's gonna give you that motivation when the business is tough or the market is tough, you remember her every single time. speaker-1: fall in love with the problem. I think it's a great place for us to end. Thank you so much, Morgan, for joining us. speaker-0: Thanks for having me. speaker-1: Starting a business is one of the boldest decisions you can make. And the main challenge isn't just risk, it's uncertainty. As a behavioral scientist, here are the three things that I would keep in mind. The first is to run small experiments, not just place one big bet. With risk, the possible outcomes and approximate odds are known. But with a new business, the probabilities themselves are usually unknowable. So you should think about that as ambiguity. And in that context, Detailed forecasts and plans can create false confidence. A better approach is to design a sequence of inexpensive tests, each with a very clear hypothesis, a spending limit, and a learning objective. Sometimes that learning objective is about the business, like are you getting a signal that people want this product? And sometimes it's about you. Do you enjoy how you're spending your time? The second is to balance your optimism with reality checks. Starting a business requires unusually strong belief in your prospects. But that same optimism can create unrealistic timelines and selective attention to encouraging evidence. Research finds that entrepreneurs are often more optimistic than employees. So deliberately introduce reality checks. Consult an independent skeptic, examine base rates for your industry, and conduct a pre-mortem where you anticipate how things might go wrong before they do and what you would do if that happens. And finally, let what you can afford to lose guide you, not how much you want to make. Under genuine uncertainty, how much can this make invites fantasy. But what can I afford to lose while learning whether this works creates a more useful boundary. Experienced entrepreneurs often preserve flexibility by bounding the downside and adding resources incrementally. So set explicit limits on the money, the time, and the career capital that you're willing to risk, and treat this venture less like one big leap and more like a sequence of discoveries. I'm Zaraka Khan. Thanks for tuning in to the deciding fact.