Latest / SHULCHAN ARUCH YOMI: Own the Halacha in 25 minutes a day! / Yoreh De’ah 228:46-51. Vows: Hataras Nedarim: Multiple Vows, Rosh Chodesh Adar, Cherem Vs a King, Coercion

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Yoreh De’ah 228:46-51. Vows: Hataras Nedarim: Multiple Vows, Rosh Chodesh Adar, Cherem Vs a King, Coercion · SHULCHAN ARUCH YOMI: Own the Halacha in 25 minutes a day!

• 0:01
  OK, good morning. We're continuing race we are on
• 0:07
  today Memvov. Just a quick thing from
• 0:11
  yesterday we mentioned about a person made a shurua for a
• 0:16
  sheddock and then so we learned if the buckler, I'm assuming it
• 0:21
  goes either way. But if the buckler all of a
• 0:24
  sudden decides he's no longer going to be from he doesn't have
• 0:27
  to keep the shivuah of marrying off his daughter to her because
• 0:31
  we explained it's an Anand Sahade.
• 0:33
  I think those are the words of the Taz we everyone knows he was
• 0:37
  not he was there was no shivuah. It was not meant for someone
• 0:42
  who's going to become not from. So just interesting the halakhas
• 0:47
  clear if it's the sister of the Bahar and also it affects the
• 0:53
  Shirua no longer is standing because it has an effect on the
• 0:58
  Bachar himself. And I believe I didn't really
• 1:01
  see anyone talk about it in particular, but a parent and a
• 1:04
  brother might also relieve one of the Shuwa.
• 1:07
  But it's clear from the Gnostic helium that an aunt and an
• 1:10
  uncle, once you start getting more removed, obviously that is
• 1:13
  not going to affect the shuwa. 1 still must go through with it,
• 1:17
  right? They're not in the same
• 1:18
  household. OK, let's go to Mem Vav matiri
• 1:23
  Kama nadarium leish ekhad, afilu behter ekhad, right?
• 1:28
  So now we want to know you have a group of guys, people,
• 1:33
  whatever. They all make a Shiva, an
• 1:35
  individual Shiva on their own. Different items, different
• 1:38
  Shivas, Nadarium, whatever it is for different things and they
• 1:42
  all want to do. You want to sit down and have a
• 1:44
  bees and do Mutualach, mutualach, mutualach all at
• 1:48
  once, right? So either there's two cases,
• 1:50
  right? It could either be one person
• 1:52
  with many different Nadaram, unrelated Nadaram, or you can
• 1:57
  have ten guys each one with one net there or 10 * 10.
• 2:01
  Whatever scenario you want to come up with, they can all be
• 2:05
  done with one basin. And what time one time the honey
• 2:08
  mele dili ish akhad saghi behter akhad be Nadarian mehulafian.
• 2:13
  When is it clearly OK that if you have different Nadarian
• 2:17
  sorry that if one person, if he has let's many multiple, let's
• 2:21
  say 10 Nadarian all at once, he wants to be all of them.
• 2:25
  That's if they're different Nadarian one is for eating, one
• 2:28
  is for sleeping, one is dealing with this person and one's with,
• 2:31
  you know, an object for that person and one's to bring the
• 2:34
  korban whatever more difficult, right for adavar mitzvah or
• 2:38
  whatever it is different Nadarian completely.
• 2:42
  So then we said explain them all at once to the to the baisden
• 2:47
  and they'll give you a Mott to you and one shot for all of
• 2:49
  them. Right.
• 2:51
  OK, Misha nisbah al davar ekhad. I mean vishalosh or pahamayan
• 2:58
  vishalosh. Sorry hattara hattara lacole
• 3:02
  echad VE echad. If a person made the same neder
• 3:07
  multiple times, he said whatever this object is usser for me like
• 3:14
  the like the Corbin. So this object So you made a
• 3:16
  neder on something. So if you made a neder on
• 3:19
  something or a Shivua on something, certainly it's
• 3:24
  referring to a Shiva. That's a Kuli alma, right?
• 3:28
  Just a quick throwback, not to get into it too much.
• 3:31
  There is a whole discussion. If a wait, we know in general we
• 3:35
  we say an issers not haul on an issers is a whole discussion.
• 3:38
  Can a nether be haul on a nether?
• 3:42
  So a Shivua, generally we say it's not haul on another Shivua,
• 3:47
  but the second one actually kind of stays hovering.
• 3:51
  It's it's it you did say something and is it, it, It is.
• 3:55
  It does have the power of creating some kind of a Shiva in
• 4:00
  the air. But because it's already there's
• 4:03
  one Shiva on it, it's not call, it's not active.
• 4:07
  But if you were to do Hatara on the 1st Shiva, then the second
• 4:10
  one would now take its place and be actively call.
• 4:14
  OK, so the question is, does that apply by nadarium as well?
• 4:18
  So here we see the Sholkhanara Basiosa.
• 4:20
  If he explains clearly, the taz brings it that he holds that
• 4:25
  even with a nether Khal and a nether after another, we say the
• 4:30
  first one is khal right away, but the second one is not Khal
• 4:33
  yet. So therefore and then we also
• 4:37
  learned that a person, Alisa Khatrila cannot do Hataras
• 4:41
  nadarium on something until the Nader is actively khal.
• 4:46
  Not just you know, you know, Bavir in the air waiting.
• 4:51
  It's has to be active. So therefore it's not possible
• 4:55
  to do a then taras nadarium on the second one or third one
• 5:02
  until you get rid of the first one.
• 5:06
  OK, so then right so that's the Halafo of you're going to show
• 5:09
  Kanara. You have to do one at a time.
• 5:11
  You start with the first OK, there's a whole discussion
• 5:14
  doesn't matter. Mika Ajin the shock, for
• 5:19
  example, holds Mika Ajin. You can do them all at once in
• 5:23
  in any order, but we're going to see that on also in Rayshaft
• 5:27
  tech. But OK, but Mikar.
• 5:31
  But then he says certainly like Hatila, we follow the
• 5:34
  Shokhanarak. That has to be done separately
• 5:37
  and go ahead. Start with the first one like he
• 5:39
  writes OK, according to the opinion, it says another is
• 5:43
  Khala Neder. So then this Shokhanarak was
• 5:45
  talking about a shibua and so says the Araka Shilka and that's
• 5:48
  why it says about Misha and Ishba Dabarafat.
• 5:51
  He changes from the Russian of another to a shibua.
• 5:53
  But apostasy the Shilkhanarak holds a well, maybe it's just
• 6:00
  based Joseph himself writes that another is not call on another
• 6:06
  in regarding this Salah when he quotes it from the Rashba.
• 6:11
  OK, whatever it's called for the Ramban OK anyways, mem Zain IM
• 6:17
  Sivaha Melakshaloya. So you have Dina de Mahusa.
• 6:24
  We always talk about we have the king and right ruler of the land
• 6:29
  and he makes a ruling Allah. You know, he knows that the Jews
• 6:33
  have a based in they like making harems once in a while, takanas,
• 6:37
  whatever it is. The Jews listen to the Hakamim.
• 6:41
  He says like this, He makes a decree.
• 6:43
  No one is allowed to listen or follow any harem unless my
• 6:48
  Jewish friend Ruvain or any, any whatever his stipulation is
• 6:52
  until you get Haskama from Ruvain, otherwise Weima Krima
• 6:58
  Yehima Bhuta. And if the based in Kahala were
• 7:02
  to make some kind of harem, so the king, whatever the
• 7:05
  government says, the harem would be null and void.
• 7:09
  It has no power because we're the right Ahmadine de Ma who
• 7:13
  says the king and it has no power.
• 7:16
  And the Kahala say OK, very nice and they go ahead and do the
• 7:20
  harem anyway. They don't listen to what the
• 7:23
  king says. Shiloba has come out Reuven and
• 7:26
  they do it without Reuven's permission.
• 7:29
  Khal Hakharim. The harem is Khal 100% and the
• 7:35
  king really has no power in the state because it's defined by
• 7:38
  the kahal and it's based in and they are the ones who can make
• 7:44
  it and he doesn't have any power.
• 7:47
  It's brought down in the besos. If the Rashba, the gras brings
• 7:50
  it over here, he says she ain't kor be an Adam Lovato Shivos
• 7:55
  bacharamos because Shivos and karamos, that's the kahala has
• 7:59
  the power and nobody has the power to prevent it.
• 8:03
  Except we know a father for his daughter, right?
• 8:07
  She's you know, young enough and a man for his wife.
• 8:11
  There you have Afaras Nadarian, and that's the only time Rabi
• 8:15
  also learned the kahal could be Mayfair for the Yahid, but
• 8:18
  that's it. OK, haga veem srikunovar mikoa
• 8:23
  mikoa zera tamahlat and isser badovar.
• 8:27
  And the Ramadja says listen there if one must.
• 8:34
  He has no choice. He's an onus and he has to
• 8:36
  listen to what the king says. I guess whatever the situation
• 8:40
  is. Shailat Khatham, maybe, right?
• 8:44
  You're going to be going against the theorem.
• 8:46
  But otherwise, I don't know. He'll arrest you.
• 8:48
  He'll, I don't know, maybe undo tremendous fines.
• 8:53
  Maybe your life is in jeopardy. Exactly what the case you know.
• 8:56
  How far do we take it? Do we call it an onus?
• 8:59
  It's unclear. But at some point it's an onus.
• 9:03
  And maybe it's not even a big onus.
• 9:05
  Maybe it's OK. You can not, you can not follow
• 9:08
  the theorem. Then as the grub points out, the
• 9:11
  Nadari onsin mutai that nidri onsin when a when any time in
• 9:17
  neder is done against the will, against your your will or the
• 9:22
  people's will, then it's a matter to do it the F BK
• 9:26
  governor. And this is also a case of nidri
• 9:28
  onsin. OK, so 1 does not have to follow
• 9:33
  this Takana Nharim if he has no choice or Mikko Makko Makko
• 9:39
  Kishia Abhorg Zerah Tamala. However, there still is the
• 9:43
  theorem because the Seabourg put on the put on this theorem and
• 9:48
  just because the king said don't follow it.
• 9:53
  It's the theorem is called and you see so and you have no
• 9:56
  choice because otherwise your life's in the whatever the onus
• 9:59
  is you're allowed to. It's because of the king.
• 10:03
  You have no choice but Yeshua and say Kocham levatal at sea
• 10:08
  voy and but one should try and get the king, the government to
• 10:12
  take back this this oppression and onus as much as they should
• 10:17
  try as much as possible to have him revoke his decree.
• 10:22
  OK, all right, let's go to mem, I think Yeah, Hanish palifra la
• 10:32
  Cavaro la Roche kodesh. Other Kaya alifrawa biong Roche
• 10:37
  kodesh Alishan. All right, so a person makes a
• 10:40
  shavua. Now we had the whole question
• 10:43
  about other other one, other two and what to do with the one day,
• 10:50
  2 day rush kodesh. But here, here's one example.
• 10:56
  Or a person makes a shirua. I remember Shirua another and
• 10:59
  another. The overriding rule at hand is
• 11:04
  Hulkim, Akhar, Lushan, Binet, Adam and Lamar.
• 11:08
  Nadar and Lamar over there says. And whenever it's unclear what
• 11:15
  his kavana was, we say sveka da araisa because the ikar in in
• 11:21
  general and neder and a shivua is a din to Arisa and therefore
• 11:25
  a whole azlena and lehomer and we have to go lehomer.
• 11:28
  Obviously if one specified which day or month he's talking about,
• 11:33
  then he specified. But we're talking about a case
• 11:35
  he didn't specify. He says I'm making a shivua to
• 11:37
  pay somebody by Rosh Kodesh Adar and he doesn't specify which
• 11:43
  one. So we say he had the Shiva goes
• 11:48
  for the first day of the first other.
• 11:52
  Now you have until the end of the day because that's still the
• 11:54
  first day. But it's one day.
• 11:57
  If it's even though Rosh Kodesh has two days to it, it's still 2
• 12:03
  separate days, right? Two separate days on the
• 12:06
  calendar. You dive in three times each
• 12:08
  day. You say Kriyatuma each day.
• 12:10
  They're different days. She want to ask if there's a
• 12:13
  mustaf. If you say very good, if it's a
• 12:14
  mustaf, it's four times. But they're different days.
• 12:17
  Exactly. And he said Rosh Kadesh, Rosh
• 12:20
  Kadesh is one day. So I mean it's a 2 day Rosh
• 12:24
  Kadesh, but it's anyway, that's what Lashaan Binayadam is and it
• 12:28
  goes Seattle until the end of the first day.
• 12:31
  OK, now the taz interesting points out he was according to
• 12:38
  the Rhomba. So this goes back he he points
• 12:43
  out by the Rambam, you go generally by the first other.
• 12:47
  But if you know it's a Shanam Albert, it's a 2 month other
• 12:53
  this year it's a leap year, whatever.
• 12:56
  So then there's an extra other and you know about it.
• 12:58
  So then the Rambam says you go after the second day.
• 13:02
  So here the task says, so the second one.
• 13:06
  So here the taz says over here must be according to the Rambam,
• 13:10
  that if you had in mind, if you knew it was a 2 day Rosh Kodesh
• 13:14
  and you had in mind the second day.
• 13:17
  So the taz says according to the Rambam, you have until the 2nd
• 13:22
  day or perhaps the second month if that, if you knew it was the
• 13:26
  second. If we're talking about right,
• 13:28
  there's two issues, there's two others, and there's two days
• 13:30
  Rosh Kodesh, but whatever. So you have the later one
• 13:33
  according to the latter one according to the sort of the
• 13:36
  Rambam he points out. And then it seems to be that the
• 13:40
  Beratev and the TA and the TA seem to pass him like that.
• 13:43
  Laha Laha, according to the Pracho Khanara, he definitely
• 13:47
  holds always like the most Rishonim.
• 13:49
  It's only the first day and the first month.
• 13:53
  Even if you knew it was a leap year or a two day, 2 day
• 13:57
  Rashadash, it makes no difference.
• 13:59
  That's what most Rishonima hold. That's what the shaka, the
• 14:01
  Shalkhanarika holds. However many, I think it's the
• 14:07
  Shahram. Many say that the that the
• 14:10
  Shalkhanarika, the ikarden holds, it's always the first
• 14:13
  day. But the reason why he quotes the
• 14:15
  Rambam is busy. He says Lakatila, you should be
• 14:18
  a mahmer. All right, so lamaisa, there's
• 14:21
  the absolute megarden. But here we have Lasham Vinaya,
• 14:26
  Adam Sveka de reisa la Komra. It's not 100% clear in the
• 14:30
  postscame what should be done with Hathil or with the of it,
• 14:33
  but OK, that sums it up. Mentet Kahao Chihuahui, now the
• 14:43
  eveno Beta Knesset Nyamaochi grew meharry beat.
• 14:47
  She has zero. All right, so the Kahao they
• 14:51
  make a that when they get their they're going to lend out money
• 14:58
  to Goyim and that right, and and they're going to get interest.
• 15:01
  So they're going to collect interest on it.
• 15:03
  And when they get the interest back, they're going to use it
• 15:06
  for to both to pay back their debts and to start building the
• 15:13
  beta Knesset. They're not going to wait.
• 15:15
  They're going to start doing both at the same time.
• 15:17
  The Akshab Kishigalua, I repeat now goyim Anglo Cadilli froa
• 15:23
  covidien. I think it's the debts to the
• 15:26
  community. To the.
• 15:33
  So they're going to borrow money from the Kihila to build.
• 15:37
  So to lend money right now, they're going to collect their
• 15:41
  their interests and then the principal back from the non Jews
• 15:46
  right now. So they are using their money.
• 15:48
  They're supposed to be using the money to pay back the debts to
• 15:52
  the people, right? And to build the base of
• 15:55
  Migdash. So the luck is it new Makhzo
• 15:58
  Makhzo. Even though it's not enough
• 16:00
  money to pay every back and not enough money to build the beta
• 16:03
  Knesset, you still do half and half.
• 16:05
  That was the how it was established to be used for both.
• 16:08
  They were hoping it was going to be enough for both.
• 16:10
  None. Lashwan mesupak baskama bahram
• 16:14
  nidon kafishiyomu rova kahal shahita kavanasam bishat
• 16:19
  akhiran. OK, now they're looking at the
• 16:23
  theorem and they're studying the harem.
• 16:25
  I don't know recently or from a while ago, and they're not clear
• 16:30
  what exactly was meant by the harem.
• 16:32
  They're looking at the wording and it's not 100% clear.
• 16:35
  So you go after what most of the kahal, how they interpret the
• 16:40
  Kavanaugh of what was, what was the mean, what was meant by the
• 16:44
  harem? What were they?
• 16:46
  What were the original kahal tried to say?
• 16:48
  What were they? What are they trying to
• 16:50
  accomplish? What are they trying to say?
• 16:51
  What was the harem? And that's where you follow you
• 16:53
  go after roka haga, the Indian takanatam.
• 17:02
  So too, anytime there's a how do we understand what was what was
• 17:07
  the takana? What was the you go after ro?
• 17:11
  I mean, he's new shiko lasha na masuka nidon alpi paloni.
• 17:16
  Well, you haladon alpi omed daito like a few masha a year
• 17:21
  ago E lashon skama. That's a kana one second, right.
• 17:30
  So then if they specify that when any time there's a doubt or
• 17:36
  it's unclear what was meant, so you have to go find out from a
• 17:41
  certain individual. So you can't just go based on
• 17:44
  what you think was going to think.
• 17:47
  You have to go to him and ask him, right?
• 17:51
  What But? Have the bagats.
• 17:54
  They will decide what they. Want instead of really saying
• 17:59
  what right exactly you can have one person on his own deciding
• 18:04
  thank you bagats whatever so therefore any it has to be by
• 18:08
  that person that was it tonight. You know if that.
• 18:11
  Person is limited, he cannot do only that.
• 18:16
  Right, right, right. The the main point we're adding
• 18:18
  over here, Svaya is not that person can't decide what he
• 18:23
  thinks be the way that the people should behave.
• 18:27
  It's not up to him either. The Tanai is he has to honestly
• 18:31
  interpret what was the original intention from the original.
• 18:37
  Obviously people are biased, that's a whole nother story.
• 18:40
  But you have to go after what they had in mind and based on
• 18:44
  how it was worded right? It's to interpret the original
• 18:47
  ruling. He can't come up with his own
• 18:49
  opinions. Kahal shagazrukhara mocha ENAT
• 18:52
  sibor yokhalin mudva EN srithin akaim akaim.
• 18:57
  Now if kahal makes izera that the Seibor cannot uphold.
• 19:02
  And you don't have to follow it. You don't have to uphold it, nun
• 19:06
  olive, but let's do nun olive, Hector Shenasab, the onus
• 19:11
  anokum. If any time you do a Taras
• 19:14
  Nadarin against the will of the one who made the net there, then
• 19:20
  it doesn't doesn't do anything. Hakam Baizen can't come over to
• 19:25
  somebody and saying I'm doing a Taras Nadarin for you.
• 19:28
  Mahkulov, Mahkulov, Mahkulov. If the no there doesn't want to
• 19:33
  have that tarasidarian and there's no Karata, no PETA, then
• 19:37
  it doesn't. It doesn't work if the basin is
• 19:46
  being forced right to gunpoint to be Matiya is not there.
• 19:51
  Does it work? It appears to me the whole
• 19:53
  concept of own sin and it not being able to be call against
• 19:57
  the will is only on the no there the person who's making the Ned
• 20:01
  there making the Shiva. It can't be coerced on to him.
• 20:05
  He has to do it on something that's optional that he wants to
• 20:07
  do it and he's if it's forced it's it never takes hold.
• 20:12
  It's never another Shiva, a value that's worth anything.
• 20:17
  That's tophis but the based in. And and and therefore also to
• 20:22
  undo it. It needs him to want to undo it.
• 20:26
  It needs his PETA, his kharata in order to undo it.
• 20:30
  But I don't see any problem if the Baesden, as long as it's a
• 20:37
  Neder chavoie that's physically possible to undo, then as long
• 20:41
  as they do it, it's done. And the fact that they were
• 20:44
  forced to do it, I don't see how that's a problem.