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Rugby Direct Episode 265: What We Learned From The Bledisloe Series · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk ZB. Follow this
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. Get
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered by Newstalk ZB.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Forklift Solutions, lifting you
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level. Back again from Sydney,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: a beautiful Sunday morning. More beautiful for the All Blacks. Liam,
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: who have again walloped the Wallabies. Greetings as we reflect
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: on that Bledisloe Cup test here in Sydney. How's things?
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: I think the sun shines for the All Blacks and
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: it was a fairly dark day, I think, for the Wallabies, Elliot.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: It's been a pretty tough two weeks. A real humbling
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: experience after... You know, some real hope for the Wallabies fans. Look,
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: it was a great atmosphere, wasn't it? It's 73,000 at
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: a core stadium on a massive day in Sydney. They
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: had the Everest race across town. They've had the rugby league.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: They came out in force. And I think they probably
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: went home with their heads down after a pretty comprehensive
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: performance from the All Blacks.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. And look, when the All Blacks sort
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: of got a bit clunky after halftime, it's easy to
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: To forget how good they were before the break and
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: getting out to a 36-7 lead. The Wallabies couldn't live
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: with them in that first 40. The All Blacks just
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: scythed and found holes right throughout that Wallabies attack and
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: we saw them stretch them and then just blow them
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: apart across the park. That was a really good first
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: 40 from the All Blacks.
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: That was superb and it was a continuation of what
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: we saw at Eden Park in the second half last
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: week where the All Blacks really blew the Wallabies away
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: and it is a continuation of those attacking philosophies and
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: platforms that Dave Rennie's brought in and I think we're
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: seeing the benefits in their attack and their depth from
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: the South African tour. Look, what was it? Three tries
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: in the opening quarter in Sydney, six tries in the
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: first half, the game's done by half time but there
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: were just so many sublime moments with the All Blacks
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: and All teams in world rugby will realize this. You
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: just cannot give them that speed of luck ball because
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: then Cam Roy guards can jump out. He can suck
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: in those one, two, three defenders. He can control it.
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  Speaker 3: You've got McKenzie playing on the front foot. You've got
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: Lakai and Satiti just rolling through the middle. They offload.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: It's unstoppable. And to hear Harry Wilson post-match, he was
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: talking about how good Dillblacks are, how unstoppable they were.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: So that attacking blueprint has really come to the fore
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: in the past two weeks.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: It has. And everything that South Africa did to stop
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks, and they did a very good job
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: of doing so, the Wallabies don't have the skill set,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: don't have the cattle to do that themselves. And this
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: has been the All Blacks attacking blueprint at its finest.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: And again, it goes back to your point around giving
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks time and space. That's something South Africa...
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: did really well at not doing and denied them time
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: and space. If a team does so, this All Blacks team,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: more so certainly than the 24, 25 generation of the
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: All Blacks, can just blow you off the park. And
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: that's perhaps what we saw the All Blacks do more
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: so a decade ago, around 2015, 16, 17, when they
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: were playing some sublime rugby, is that 40 minutes would
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: be enough for them to take the win. We certainly
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: saw that yesterday. and they, you know, were good enough
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: to capitalise on that.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah. Look, their attack has been revolutionised under Dave Rennie.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: It was a continued frustration for the previous two years.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: You know, it was individuals largely sparking the attack. Didn't
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: seem like there was a clear game plan. Maybe it was,
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: I think it was over-structured, over-coached, where Dave Rennie and
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: Mike Blair have come in. They have given these guys
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  Speaker 3: a licence. There's a clear plan about going back to
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: the DNA, about using the width, about overloading edges, offloading.
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  Speaker 3: And even just the difference in execution was stark between
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks and Wallabies. The Wallabies actually started quite well.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: They had at least three ventures into the All Blacks
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: 22 and they butchered them all. And yes, the All
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: Blacks defended well, but the Wallabies had a more five
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: metres out from the All Blacks line. They drop it.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: They had a number of times they had overlaps and
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  Speaker 3: they go with a skip ball to... just to render it, um,
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  Speaker 3: so easy to defend. So just that the difference in, um,
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: red zone execution, um, but yeah, that, that attacking blueprint
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  Speaker 3: from the All Blacks is very evident and it's bringing out, um,
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: you can clearly see the All Black, uh, the players
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: are enjoying it. That's how they want to play. Uh, and,
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: and geez, they look good when, when they do it. Um,
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: I think the only caveat to this and, uh, like
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: the Wallabies, I think it really has put in perspective, um, well, a,
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: that they need everyone available to compete with the best and,
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: and just that, uh, there's levels to international rugby, uh, and, uh,
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: they have really been humbled the past two weeks. And
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: so that's a wee bit of a caveat when you're
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: looking at this all black team and you're thinking about
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: what's come before in terms of South Africa and what's
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: to come when they go North, when they're, um, Edinburgh
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: on a, on a cold night or, or Twickenham and
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: England will try and squeeze them in different ways. But
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: credit where credit's due. Um, They have taken the lessons
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: of South Africa and relished the opportunity of playing the Wallabies.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can only play who you're in front of.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: That is a good point, though, that this Wallabies team
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: and the Wallabies team, they're on a 13-match losing run
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: against the All Blacks.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: Well, is this a rivalry anymore? Oh, not really. No.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, is there an appetite for three tests against
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: this opponent next year?
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: No.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Maybe from the Australian side for a pure cash perspective
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: and matching yourself against the best for the All Blacks. Look,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: I don't think Australia's earned... playing three test matches against
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks. I think it's a cash grab. The
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Anzac Test, yep, great idea. Potentially ruins Super Rugby, but
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: I don't think there's value in playing three times against
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: the Wallabies at the moment. They haven't won for the
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: last 13. Last one in 2020. I mean, you look
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: at the players in that All Blacks team now. Cam Roygard,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: never lost to Australia. Wallace Atidi, never lost. Lakai, you know,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: whole lot of players the last five or six years,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: the more experienced players now as well, haven't lost to
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: this Australian team. Ian Foster lost once to them.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: Well, their whole adult life, 24 years, they've always had
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: the blitters though.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: That's right. And they don't look like getting better anytime soon. Now,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: two weeks ago, there was a lot of chatter about
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks being vulnerable. That looks ridiculous now in hindsight.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, that was me, so thanks for that. But
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: you're right. And look, the All Blacks are heavily depleted
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: as well, and that's what I mean about the benefits
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: of this South African tour. You know, you think about
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: all the guys that are already gone for the year.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: Artie Sevier, Luke Jacobson, Ruben Love, Caleb Clark, Billy Proctor,
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: possibly Richie Mwonga, and then a couple more, sounds like,
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  Speaker 3: on Saturday night, Shannon Frizzell and Samusoni Takiaho. But Players
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: that the All Blacks bring in that are digging so
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: deep into their ranks yet, Tava Tavanawa and Rika Awani
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  Speaker 3: effectively were the starting All Blacks midfield. Tupai went off
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: early with a head knock. You've got Shea Fihaki coming
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: on the wing to debut. Yeah, just right across the boards. It's,
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: you know, using 50 players this year, the benefits of
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: that are very evident.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. And that's the thing for the All Blacks,
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: is that you've taken out Savia, Jacobson, Love, Mawunga, Geordie
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  Speaker 2: Barrett yesterday, a whole host of, besides most experienced players,
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  Speaker 2: and they didn't really miss a beat.
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: Peter Lakai, for me, is now... And this... He's the
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: All Blacks' best loose forward, bar none. I put him
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: above Artie Sevier.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: 23 years old. He is a generational player for the
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  Speaker 3: All Blacks. I would be building that loose forward trio
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: around him.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Do you... Okay. When everyone is fit and available, we'll
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: get back to discussing the game in a moment, but
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: when everyone is fit and available, what is your starting
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: loose forward trio for the All Blacks?
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: I haven't seen enough of Frizzell and probably not going
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: to see him for the rest of the year, so
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: I think that's six jerseys still up for grabs to
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: a degree, but if everyone's fit, I'm going Adi, Adi,
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: Peter Lakai and Tupu Vai at this stage.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: So Tupu Vai, so Peter Lakai, yep.
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: I think so. Luke Jacobson will start because the All
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: Blacks really value what he does if he's fit, and
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: I like his defensive presence, but I just think Lakai's
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: brings so much more.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: We've seen them try to cram them in against France.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: They played Luckite 6, Jacobson 7.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: That's the other option isn't it? That Jacobson could play
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: 6 and you maybe Tupou starts at lock but then
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: you've got Scott Barrett and Fabian Holland so there's depth everywhere.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah there is. As you mentioned look the All Blacks
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: again forced into another injury with Quintipai going off injured
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: inside 2 minutes and again didn't skip a beat Tava
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Tavanawa at 12 and Enrico Ioane coming on to play centre.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: You know, that midfield, I don't know, it was overly effective.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: I think Tava Tavanawa had his opportunity yesterday. He was OK,
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: ran over Max Jorgensen on one occasion, penalised at least
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: once at rut time. Didn't think he shone, particularly, in
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: a game that was rather open. and probably tailor-made for him. Ioane,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: I thought, had some nice runs as well, played some
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: good rugby. What did you make of that midfield combination?
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: I thought Rico was good. He'd been waiting a long
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: time for an extended chance, and he was busy. Tava Tavanawa, look,
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: there's been a real clamouring, hasn't there, for him to
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: get an opportunity. It was meant to be off the bench,
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: and he came in to start because Geordie Barrett was
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: ruled out. on match day, I would describe his performance
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: as probably muted. Like you say, in a largely supremely
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: dominant All Blacks display, we didn't see a lot of him.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: A couple of times a ball in hand, I don't
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: remember him pilfering any breakdown turnovers. Like if you just
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: think about his influence generally for the Highlanders and then
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks, poles apart. So I think... his best
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: chance in future is a bench role, and even then
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: he might be struggling on the basis of that.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hard to know. I mean, he didn't grab his opportunity.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: I've seen some varying, in the good old player ratings,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: some varying opinions on how he went, but my eyes
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: live for, yeah, muted's probably a pretty good word, as
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: you say, for a performance like him. We saw Shea
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Feeharki get an All Blacks debut as well. Yellow carded
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: late in a, I don't know, probably to the letter
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: of the law it was, a yellow card, but I'm
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: not sure how much lower he could have got. You're
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: almost asking these guys to defy the laws of physics,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: but regardless, he got 40 minutes under his belt. He
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: was a game day inclusion because of Tava Tamanae going
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: into the midfield. Look, gives Dave Rennie another option, and
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: it'll be interesting to see how that squeeze comes on
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: for the end of the year.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought he was mixed. He was involved, got
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: the yellow card, and there was also one time he
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: was way down the, I think it was the left-hand
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: edge went to kick it and I think missed the ball.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he missed it. I don't know whether it was
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: the turf or not. It was pretty poor, the turf.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: For a core stadium, a world-class stadium, they had monster
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: trucks there last Saturday and they put down that protective layer,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: but I don't think it made a blind or a difference.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: And then they had a women's 15s game, two 7s
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: games beforehand, and even in the women's game, they were
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: struggling to put scrums down because it was cut up
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: so bad. We went down to the ground level to
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: the pitch side after the game for some interviews, and
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: it was noticeably cut up. So whether that was a mistake,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know. But that may have played a role
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: potentially in Frizzell and Takeoho's injury as well. I mean,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I asked Dave Rennie about that, and he didn't know. But,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: you know, sometimes that dodgy turf, your foot gets stuck
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: in the turf. Shannon Frizzell said to Luke Pearce, who
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: asked if he was a riot, he's like, yeah, I
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: got shot down by a sniper, you know. He got
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: probably stuck in the turf. Whether that was what caused it,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but I don't think it was test
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: match standard yesterday at a course stadium.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: No, it was a sorry state. Just with Fihaki, I
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: think interesting that he was promoted ahead of Amani Narawa.
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: Maybe they clearly wanted to have a look at him
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: maybe before the end of year two.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Well, he was also in the squad before Narawa when
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: he was called in.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, personally I'd have Narawa ahead of him, but maybe
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: he's gone up in their ranks. And also on Frizzell,
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: I think it's a concern because they were great hopes
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: for him coming back from Japan. He's barely played this year,
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: managed a couple of games for Tasman, and you certainly
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: couldn't accuse the All Blacks of pushing him too soon. Everyone,
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: certainly myself included, has been pushing for him to get
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: a start. Well, he basically came on and got injured
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: straight away. I think that's a real concern in terms
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: of his body, his ability to hold together, and it
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: also speaks to, with Richie Mwanga doing his calf, the
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: folly or You know, there's been three years of building
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: these guys up and waiting for them to come home.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: And Moanga's case in particular, sort of dressing him up
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: as a bit of a saviour. While they're both barely featured, Moanga,
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: they both could be gone for the year. So it
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: just shows that you don't know what's going to happen.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: And ultimately, you've got to select and go with what
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: you've got. You do.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: And yeah, he has struggled, I guess, Frizzell. He took
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: a while to get back on the park with Tasman.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Now back out there, now injured again. So we'll see
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: where that lands. Dave Rennie didn't have an update for
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: us last night as to how bad that might be.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: I guess overall, Liam, the picture for the All Blacks,
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: they scored some really good tries. How much will they
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: take out of the second 40 where it got a
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: little bit clunky? Will that be a concern, do you think?
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Because Dave Rennie sort of said after the game he
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: was disappointed they didn't quite go on with it. Chalmers
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: was there to rack up potentially a few records against
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: this Australian side. Australia played a little bit better after half-time.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Will they be frustrated by that second 40?
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: You're right. Rene said he was happy with the 43 minutes. And, yeah,
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: I think they got a bit ragged. Perhaps a lack
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: of ruthlessness in the second half. The line-out definitely deteriorated
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: when the bench came on. I thought the set-piece was
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: really good up until then. The Wallabies bench, I think,
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: had a bigger impact on the game. But the All
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: Blacks also had a number of injuries. They finished the
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: game with 13 men. So I think that distorted things
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: a wee bit. And there's also a reality that when
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: you're up, what was it, 36-7 at halftime, it's really
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: hard to maintain that same mental edge that you start
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: the game with when the game is done. So yeah,
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: if you look at the two bladders, those back-to-back, you'd
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: say the All Blacks were supreme second half at Eden Park.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: and superb first half in Sydney. If they can put
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: that together, that's their ideal. But both of those halves
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: would be good enough to blow most teams away in
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: World Rugby. But they're chasing perfection, aren't they? So there's
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: certainly things they'll put on the whiteboard when they look
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: to go north.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. And let's take a look at that northern tour.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Starts against Scotland on the morning of 8th of November,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: New Zealand time, then Wales, then England, then a Nations
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Championship opponent on the final weekend. I guess for the
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: All Blacks, they talked about discipline, they talked about defence,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: everything coming into the series. They've looked at a lot
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: of those issues, but there'll be bigger tests to come,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: whether that's Scotland or England, whatever it might be. They're
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: going to be tested further up north than they probably
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: have been over the last couple of weeks.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, big time. And it's going to be really interesting
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: to see how the style of rugby they're trying to
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: play goes up north now. in winter conditions against opposition
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: that will test them a lot more in the air.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: That game last night, it was two teams on the
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: exact same page. You know, it was super rugby on
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: another level on steroids. They both wanted to play. There
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: wasn't a lot of kicking. I think the first half
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: had 36 minutes ball in play. Some test matches in
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: their entirety from the RGR series are at that level. So...
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: it'll be a very different complexion when the All Blacks
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: play England, when they play Scotland, do use the ball
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: a lot, but they're great eerily. And when the All
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: Blacks are squeezed, when they don't have that front foot
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: platform they want, how do they go there? Because they are,
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: Dave Rennie was asked a lot about, you know, is
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: the style going to work at next year's World Cup?
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: There's been a lot of chat this week about the
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: World Cup because we're in Australia, we're a year out,
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: we're playing at the same venue's So there is some currency,
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: even though there's still a year to go. But Rennie's
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: adamant that this is the style they're going to take forward. Well,
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: we're going to get a bit of a sneak peek
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: about how this upbeat attacking brand of rugby goes against
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: teams that want to squeeze you and that will test
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: you in vastly different ways and that will be vastly
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: better than this Wallabies team. Indeed.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Dave Rennie also had a bit of a swipe at
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: the World Cup draw a couple of days ago that
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: potentially pits them against South Africa. In the quarterfinals, you know,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: compared it to the FIFA World Cup and FIFA not
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: exactly known for their, you know, clean record, but top
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: four teams all play each other in the semifinals. You know,
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: that's the way it's destined. It may not play out
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: that way, but, you know, they're on a path there.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: I honestly don't know what World Rugby's doing there sometimes
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: with what they're doing. They try to do it, you know,
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: a year later than usual and they still muck it up.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: You know what World Rugby should honestly do? is go,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: we've made a mistake, we're actually going to redraw this thing.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: They won't, because they've already released the schedule, but the
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: smart thing, the PR thing, would be to go, yeah,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: we actually got this wrong, we're going to redo it.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely. And when the biggest sporting event in the
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: world can do their draw so late, why can't rugby? And,
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: you know, there's all sorts of excuses about travelling fans
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: and plans and all these sorts of things. Well, that's rubbish.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: It's absolute rubbish. Like, FIFA have more travelling fans than...
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: The Rugby World Cup, it just boggles the mind.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: They haven't learned anything. Four years ago, you had the
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: four best teams in the world at that point. France
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: and South Africa and the All Blacks and Ireland going
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: head-to-head in the quarterfinals. And four years later, you're going
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: to have one side of the draw stack with all
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: the best teams and the other a quite cushy path,
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: which is why... everyone's saying that the All Blacks and
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Wallabies should both try and lose their pool game.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well maybe I don't think the All Blacks will
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: do that but who knows on purpose anyway.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: The other swipe that Rennie had was with your beef
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: and the TMO coming in I was going to bring
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: this up but I'm glad you did That was absurd,
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: wasn't it? It was, I don't know, it was like
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: two minutes after the fact. And what I will say
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: is it's great to see. I thought Luke Pearce did
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: a great job of allowing both teams to play. I
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: think there was maybe 10 or 11 penalties in that game.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: He still dished out two yellow cards, so it wasn't
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: like he was soft. But he allowed the game to flow,
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: and then he overruled the TMO. But that was such
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: a waste of time.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: A complete waste of time. Yeah, again... And Dave Rennie
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: sort of hinted that they need to get around the
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: table at World Rugby, the coaches, and go, what are
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: we doing here? The TMOs had far too much influence
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: once again, and for nothing. It was deemed by Luke
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Pearce the right call, but it was play on, essentially.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: So we've wasted time and space consulting that for a
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: no decision. And as Dave Rennie pointed out, if it was,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: do you get those two minutes back? If you do
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: wind back the clock, whatever it might be, there's all
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: sorts of permutations, but it's just got a little bit ridiculous.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: And yeah, it's been, as you say, a bugbear of mine,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: and World Rugby urgently needs to fix it.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: They do, yeah. Just so there's clarity on the ruling,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: so it was Declan Meredith went over and Cam Roygaard,
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: brilliant try-saving tackle. Luke Pearce has deemed that while Roygaard
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: used his leg it wasn't his boot, so you're allowed
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: to try and stop the player scoring, but you can't
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: use your foot.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, your body's got to go somewhere, but it's not
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: a kicking, as long as it's not a kicking motion,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: you know, you're fine to do that, and his legs
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: have to move somewhere, and he used that, but it wasn't,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: if you're kicking the ball out of his hands, then
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: that's different entirely, but he was perfectly legal.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: I'm going to have a bit of a carrot and
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: stick here for the Wallabies. Declan Meredith. but for me,
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: I'd be starting him over Ben Donaldson now. I was
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: in a losing team that was largely blown away. I
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: thought he was very good. He challenged the line, he offloaded.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: I know he kicked dead from one penalty and I
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: think some of his kickoffs weren't great. I'm not sure
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: about the tactics there, but he looks really promising and
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: for a really problematic position for Australian rugby, I think
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: good on Les Kiss for throwing throwing him in. I
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: thought he justified that.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: We just know that Bernard Foley or James O'Connor will
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: be starting at 10 for them in the World Cup.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: No doubt. But I do have a tweet here from
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: Darren Reid and this is the stick. Commentators are all,
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: wallabies need to do this, wallabies need to do that. Mate,
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: they can't. They do not have the cattle. It's like
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: getting upset at your dog for not being able to talk.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's accurate, isn't it? Yeah, if the wallabies
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: had their players, if they were In a golden generation,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: you know, they might be able to stop this, any team,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: but they're just not good enough. They don't have the players.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: Well, they need their best players available. Noel Skelton, Taliyah Latupo,
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: Tom Hooper, Hunter Paisami, Lenny Iketau. They have got some talent.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: They don't have the depth.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and then Les Kiss tries to bolster the
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: bench by using Angus Bell there. The game was gone
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: by the time he came on.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: One of your best players. It's bizarre, isn't it? You
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: put him to the bench.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I get the bench. You know, you want to have
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: a strong bench. I get that, but he's one of
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: your best and The game was gone by the time
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: he came on. It was baffling. The All Blacks squad
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: for the end of the tour or the Nations Championship.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: We believe we named the day after the NPC final,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: whatever that lands. And look, let's hope that Canterbury do
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: host it against Northland next weekend.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: Absolutely not.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: I think that's the Nations team.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: Go the Nacky and the Tunny Fars.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this podcast will probably go up after the game.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: So we'll see. Josh Jacobs has been released and so
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: too Jamie Hanna. George Bell, I think, was going to
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: be released from our understanding, but um semisoni takiaho's injury
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: has uh probably changed that plan which doesn't bode well
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: for semisoni for the end of year two um but
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: on that look where are the pressure points do you
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: think for the all blacks uh what are the who's
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: going to come in um you know i don't see
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: the score being radically different to the one we've seen
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: over the last couple of weeks might be a couple
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: of extra bodies uh don't know if they're going to
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: take an apprentice type player or anything like that um
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: But again, there's not many spots where you go, um,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: this player's playing out of their skin and the NPC
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: will get them in.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: No, it's interesting. The, the apprentice type, um, scenario, I
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: don't think they will, but I, a Dylan Pledger who
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: hasn't featured for Otago would be a leading guy or
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: a Lucas Casey. Um, but yeah, I don't think they'll
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: go down that route. Uh, we're thinking 36 players, so
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: maybe two more than, uh, uh, the bleeders low series. Um,
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: Maybe a less defying Inuku comes back into the mix,
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: but outside the group, 50-odd players that's been used this year,
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: it's hard to see anyone being called in. You would
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: say the pressure points would come on the loose forwards,
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: but they've lost so many. You're going to get Anton Cegna,
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: maybe Ethan Black out of back. You'd think Simon Parker
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: probably gets a reprieve, with Shannon Frizzell likely gone for
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: the year. Pressure points at lock. Patrick Tupelotu, what's his future?
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Look, I think Holland and
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Scott Barrett are the clear starters now for me in
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: an all-black second row. Tupo Vai can move back there.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: They have intended to take a reserve lock on the
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: bench because they've got Tupo Vai there. Josh Lord has
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: played some good rugby this year, but I'd still favour
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Holland and Barrett. I'm not sure whether Tupo Lott is
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: completely fit either, but.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I think it's going to be a fascinating
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: question as to whether they take him or not. I'd
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: probably lean towards no at this point in time.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. There's question marks about his fitness,
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: but those locks have played bloody well. And at this point,
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: you'd say he didn't bang the door down in South Africa. No.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: So I think he may be on the outer.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's so good against Ireland in July, but
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: just he had faded in that South African tour and.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Sam Dowery was a similar player. Started
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: the year really strongly. He faded, and now he's back
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: playing NPC for Canterbury. So, um, I think, while there's
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: a lot of depth there, there's a clear top two
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: or three now.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, the outside backs, I think, wings, um,
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: reasonably stacked there. Does his Fihaki or Amoni Narawa go? Um,
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: Kyron Taimoifalao's now available. Um, Caleb Tangitao's working his way
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: back to fitness. So, um, there's a real cohort of
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: outside backs, even with Leroy Carter, um, probably gone for
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: the year.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. Look, Tonga Town, maybe, you know, let's hope
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: he gets back in Super Rugby next year and can, uh,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: make some noise because he was, he was quality, uh,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: for the Highlanders this year and last before he got, um, uh,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: those injuries. So, let's hope he can make it back. Um,
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: you know, I want to see more from Tom Wolf
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: and I think he's worthy of a look, whether it's
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: on this tour or not. Um, big frame, tall body, um,
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: probably some question marks around his aerial skills, I think,
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: but he's an exciting prospect. Maybe they want to see
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: a little bit more out of him, maybe at NPC level.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Isaac Hutchinson is one name. He's just made his way
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: back for Canterbury over the last couple of weeks. He
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: had an electric back half of super before he was injured.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: I think he's really promising. He can cover fullback, he
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: can cover wing. Again, might be too soon for him
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: just with the lack of rugby he's had, but He's
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: a name to watch as well.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I like him. Like you say, he was superb
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: for the Chiefs. Richie Wong is the big question, isn't he?
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: He was brought over to Sydney this week so the
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: medics could keep an eye on him. Dave Rennie didn't
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: sound overly optimistic, sort of suggesting that he'll miss at
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: least two of the four Nations Championship games. So do
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: you take him?
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Well, if he's available for two, yes. If he's available
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: for that final weekend, just only that. Probably not. I
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: think you've got to look at it like a Rugby
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: World Cup knockout phase, round of 16, quarter-finals, semi-finals, finals.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: You can't carry a player if he's only available for
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: the final, I don't think. If Josh Dakin, Damian McKenzie
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: gets injured in one of the games and then you've
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: got McMonger to come back and travel across the world,
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: then I think yes. But if he's only available for
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: potentially one game, I think you can go get that
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: pre-season sorted and see it in 2027.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. You can call him in. And you've
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: got enough cover within that group with Damian McKenzie playing
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: well at 10, third choice 10, as it is. Josh Jacob,
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: he'll be in the mix, and Bowden Barrett. And we
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: haven't touched on Barrett. 35 years old, he didn't play
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: the July test. He played one of four matches against
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: the box off the bench. He's come back and started
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: at fullback, probably not his preferred position. for the All
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: Blacks in the past two weeks, and has been exceptional.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: I thought he was good at Eden Park, and then
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: he was brilliant last night. That intercept was at 60,
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: 65 metres, outpacing Tom Wright. I think he's reinvigorated, and
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: he's had a lot of knockers this year. I've been
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: among those to question whether he was on the fringe
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: or his time was up, but He's really reasserted his presence.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: He has, yeah.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: And look, I think fullback's his best position now in
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks. He's, what, fourth, fifth choice potentially at
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: 10 now. for them. But at fullback, he's got the vision.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: And the vision's always been one of his, you know,
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Superman sort of skills, Bowden Barrett, is that he can
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: see things unfolding before they happen. He's still got that
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: vision because a couple of times he spotted gaps and
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: was able to set things up or get things in
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: motion Not only this week, but also last week as well.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: So I think really encouraging from Bowdoin Barrett over the
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: last couple of weeks. A couple of tries, now got
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: 48 at test level, closing in on Doug Howlett.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: And what is he, two, three matches off cracking the 150,
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: so he'll He's one game off equaling Richie McCaw for
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: test caps and a couple off Sam Whitelock for the
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: all-time record.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Sam Whitelock was 1-5-3 in the end. Yeah, look,
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: he's showing his longevity. The All Blacks have talked about
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: what his presence has been like in camp, and it's
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: all well and good, but you've got to show it
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: on the field at some point and probably couldn't have
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: asked too much more from him. And, look, he'll be
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: the first-choice full-back given all the injuries on the end
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: of year two, won't he?
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: He will, yeah. He sounded pretty gassed post-match last night.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: You could hear the croak in his voice, whether that
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: was the 65-metre sprint or the heat, the pace of
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: the game. But he's... I wouldn't go so far as
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: to say he's back, but the complexion has changed rapidly
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: from July where he couldn't get a look in. Absolutely.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Hey, that'll do us for Rugby Direct out of Sydney.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: We will be back in the lead-up to the end-of-year tour,
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: perhaps once the squad has been named to head home.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: up north, but that'll do us. Let's hope Canterbury's in
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: the NPC final.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: Go the Bulls or the Taniwha. People's team, yeah, sure.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: No, the people's team are red and black. That'll do us.
• 31:36
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• 31:38
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• 31:41
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