Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 305 - When Politics Becomes Idolatry

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Ep. 305 - When Politics Becomes Idolatry · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man in whom there is no salvation.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: We do not need to lose sleep come November 7th or 8th, when it has been decided who the next president of the United States is.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: We are allowed to lose sleep as much as God is losing sleep and he's not losing sleep.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Remember we've read the last chapter.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: We see that God wins.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: So we vote, we put our finances towards those areas if you have a conviction to do so, but we leave the results in the hands of an omnipotent God who can do whatever he wants whenever he wants, to whomever he wants.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: He doesn't answer to anyone.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: He places kings and queens in authority and everything is running according to His plan.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: So don't worry about tomorrow.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Today you are freed up to walk with God hand in hand to get a job, to quit a job and get another job, to go watch a movie, to play a game, to share the gospel with people, knowing that God is in control.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: He is on his throne and he doesn't need your wisdom, your advice, and if he needed counsel, you wouldn't know about it.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Confession time.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: You know, guys, I must feel constantly compelled to confess when I'm around the three of you, because you remind me of Catholic priests.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Mark, you wanted to be a priest when you were a kid Ray you used to dress up like a priest and do open air.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: That's right, and most Mexicans are Catholic and Oscar's Mexican.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: It's a word association.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Is that what's happening?
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: here, yeah, pretty much.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: So you guys just comp, you compel me to confess.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: And so here it goes, confession time.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I broke my word, guys.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I broke my word.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: I did something that I said even here on the podcast I would never do again.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: You'd like be late every single day and say that you're not.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: You know, I thought about that.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Like if I changed my trend and just started being late.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: I should do that.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: Oh, I that like if I changed my trend and just started being late.
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: I should oh, I thought you're gonna say starting to be on time, you would never even think of it.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: I know, the thought just makes me fall apart.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: No, I went on that despicable roller coaster again.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Which one ghostwriter, ghostwriter oh, I hate it.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I did it.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Mark why I said I never would.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Did you go to your chiropractor?
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Well, I took Kylie to Knott's Berry Farm.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: We did what I call, you know, the dad and damsel day, and she every time come on, Papa, go ahead.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: And so I did it, Never again.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: And the whole time on the ride.
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: I have a picture of it.
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: That was built by chiropractors.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I did Last time.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I went on it, I went to a chiropractor, but I'm okay, although I am feeling some stuff.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Your face is all distorted.
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: Can you imagine you had a permanently twisted?
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: face.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: So it's just a bumper twisting.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: It's evil and wicked in every way imaginable.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: It has like.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: I think it has.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: I've got to go on record.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be sued, but I'm pretty sure there's like bolts and stuff underneath the ride that have fallen out.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: It's a wooden roller coaster?
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: It is, and that's the problem, right, you go on the metal ones.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: They're smooth.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Is that the one that goes over the road?
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, oh we watch people scream from the car.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: You know, the first time we went on that was with Murray Smith from New Zealand.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: He was visiting.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: And we went into the park we thought, oh, let's start with a little one.
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: That's 25 years ago.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: It was the last ride.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Rachel went on that day, the first and the last.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: The best adrenaline rush roller coaster for me is the ones at the fairgrounds.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: Oh, you do not do those Dude the reason why it's the best adrenaline rush, because yesterday it was on the freeway.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: Wow, you know what?
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, like I don't know, disneyland, nothing bad's going to happen.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Oscar, you don't ride those really, but the fairground.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: It's like there's actually a risk here.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: You don't ride those, do you?
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's the craziest thing I think imaginable is to ride those things Never, Because yeah.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: Again.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: Yesterday it was on the freeway.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I did that the first time.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: I rode one with my wife.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: We get on it and she's already nervous and I just look over and I go, this was on the freeway yesterday.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Perspective Well, yeah, and you just think, like who's maintaining these things?
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: Not engineers.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Time for a cool, classy comment.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: This is from Jean Phipps.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Jenny Phipps, j-e-n-n-e-e.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Phipps.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Hello, I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your ministry.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: Many years ago possibly almost 30 years ago, gasp Ray Comfort visited my church in Northern Kentucky and I purchased his book set.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: I believe I was in high school at the time.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Late last year I was looking for a new podcast to listen to and decided to see if Ray Comfort had a podcast.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: That's when I found the Living Waters podcast.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: What a blessing it has been to me.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I've shared it with so many people, including my niece and her fiance, who are also now avid listeners.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate the wisdom and humble attitudes of all the men.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: These podcasts have encouraged me and challenged me in my walk with the Lord.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I wanted to let you know what a blessing you all are in my life.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: I also love the banter.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: I only wish you had more episodes, and it would be so fun for us listeners to hear from your wives as well.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: I definitely feel like I know you and would love to someday meet you.
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: We've had a wife.
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: We've had a wife when?
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: are yours, gentlemen.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: How many have?
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: you got Bring them on.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I don't think she would do it yeah.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Sue them on?
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: I don't think she would do it.
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, sue wouldn't do it either.
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, one day we'll have to force them somehow.
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: That's a good attitude.
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, imagine bringing them in straight jackets.
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: He starts off screaming at the beginning of the podcast.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: And now a radically revolutionary resource.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: This podcast is brought to you by oh, by the way, thank you, jenny Squirrel's a blessing.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Radical surprise.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: He had to Thank you, jenny, squirrel is a blessing.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Rap, grandma, grandma, surprise, surprise, surprise, bye what?
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: He had to read through everything that he had to Somebody's like did I just fast forward?
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Why Jesus answers to life's most important questions.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I just have to say how the name of Jesus changed for us when we got saved.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: You know like when you hear someone blaspheme the name of Jesus changed for us when we got saved.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: You know like when you hear someone blaspheme the name of Jesus like it's nothing, I mean, do you get mad?
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Oh it just, I can't hear it with that it's not like.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, it spooks me, because you are witnessing the very sin that is going to cause them to go to hell, even if you haven't seen any other sins that they've ever committed.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: You're all right there, that right there.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: You know, I remember going from a place of signing my name before I became a Christian to signing Jesus' name, you cop it off.
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: That's my testimony.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: What?
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Are you taking the mickey out of me?
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: You didn't, that is so pathetic you used to surf and have hair on your shoulders Down here Hair on his shoulders.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: He's still there.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Hair on your back.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: I think the idea is to look like seaweed as much as possible.
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: That's really good, Mark.
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: That's just wicked.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Anyway, how did we get?
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: We're talking about the name of Jesus.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: What do you guys think?
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: I will say this the other day, not the other day, it was a few years ago I was playing basketball on an adult league and a friend of mine who is a Christian, a new Christian, though at that time he shot a three, missed and he said the name of our savior as he was walking back and I looked at him and I go not his fault, you missed.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: And I didn't know this.
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: But he was like after the game.
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: He was like, dude, you wrecked me.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: He was like I realized how foolish it was for me to use his name in that moment.
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: Have you ever done magic or something like that and the person's blasphemed?
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: Because, they're so taken back by it, and I felt sick.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: But no thought to that.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess that's just blind ignorance of people walking and mimicking what they hear and obviously they don't know the Lord.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Just to take the name Like again, it's not like G-O-D, which is bad enough, but like the very name of Christ, you know.
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: Anyways, but how do we get on that?
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: It's good to challenge people, so why are you doing that?
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: And do you realize he's the only name among billions in history that's used as a cuss word?
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: Why, unless, I never thought of?
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: that you know, as I've been witnessing lately, one of the new things I do is I'll ask people who would you say is the most important figure that's ever lived in human history.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: How often do you hear Barbra?
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Streisand.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: Pee Wee Herman.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: But you know, Jesus Christ, I say what's the most important book that's ever been written, the most read book, the most published in the Bible?
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: I say, if this is the most important person, that's the most important book.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Don't you think they're worthy exploring?
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: That's really good say.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: If this is the most important person, that's the most important book.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Don't you think they're worthy exploring?
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: I've really seen people.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: I'd be like, oh, that makes sense, Wouldn't a wise person say, okay, I should at least look into it, you know.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: But anyway, friends, look into Ray's book why Jesus Answers to Life's Most Important Questions.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Did you have fun writing that one, Ray?
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: I hated it.
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: I don't remember it was during the 50.
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: I was writing at the same time.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: No, I really enjoyed that.
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: It's Christ-centered and I love the name of Jesus.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, amen, make sure to check it out, friends, along with Living Waters, mark, inevitable study Bible.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: All that Living Waters, ooh, saying it, inhaling, I said it, that was on the spot.
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: Hey, there was a fly in here before.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: Why has it disappeared?
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Oscar does a really good job.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Following your insanity, he does.
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: Kudos to Oscar.
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was going to say he used to do improv.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: That was the answer.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: The other day you asked me if you want to know this conversation.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: It was like three podcasts ago.
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: You mentioned that I often, if someone's going to make fun of me, I will make fun of myself afterwards.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: That's actually an improv rule if someone's going to make fun of me?
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: I will make fun of myself afterwards.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: That's actually an improv rule.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: You double down, it's like a yes and Wait, you really did improv Oscar.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: I did yeah through high school.
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: Didn't you know that Easy?
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: We've talked about this before, Oscar listen.
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: Easy was in a gang.
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: Yo what's up Dan?
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, new news to you.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: We'll have to talk about that, Oscar Alright, friends.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Today we're talking about when politics become idolatry.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Boy, every presidential election season it heats up again.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: It's like anything anyone could talk about, right and again, I'm not blaming people, I'm in that whole realm as well.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: But I think it's good for us today to talk about this and ask ourselves when, even in our own hearts, right Like sometimes we'll do some of these topics and afterwards I'll get convicted.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: I'm like I went into that not saying, oh, is this a problem?
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: I have Oscar.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: One time I remember you talking about the way we talk about politicians and how we act almost as if, though, like they're not a person, or because they're a celebrity or they're famous, they kind of are outside of the realm of us being able to gossip about them or slander them or whatever.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: But there is that flip side, though, too, of where someone is unwilling to any degree to think that their politician of choice has any flaws and they can become an idol and the whole realm of politics can become idolatrous.
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: It absolutely can.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think where we need to start before we get into application, especially for something like this, because I think this type of idolatry tends to run rampant now in America.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: And so, before we even get to the application of idolatry, I feel like we need a good theological understanding of our relationship between government or politics and the church.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: And so just real, real, briefly.
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: I don't believe it yeah.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: Real, real.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: Briefly for the next 20 minutes, I think Jeremiah 29 is a great place to start.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: Israel is exiled to Babylon, and this is as a consequence of turning from God.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: God tells the exiles to seek the welfare of the city that's Babylon, to build houses, to plant gardens, to live in peace.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: It's Jeremiah 29, seven.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: So, in other words, israel is called to contribute in a positive way to the society they live in, even while they're exiles.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: But they're also warned to not forget that this is not their home and some of the Israelites in verse 10 through 14, it tells us that they were tempted to fully assimilate into Babylonian culture, forgetting God's promises of restoration and, ultimately, their identity of God's people.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: And so the call for those people and the call to us today is to remember that we are ultimately citizens of another world or we're citizens of this country, the country that we live in, whether United States or another one, but primarily citizens of the kingdom of God.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: That's Philippians 3.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: In the New Testament you see the relationship to Israel and Rome During the time of Jesus.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: Israel is under Roman occupation and the Jewish people are divided in how they should relate to Rome.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: Some of them think they should be in absolute rebellion.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: That's the zealots.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: Others sought like cooperation, assimilation, that's the tax collectors.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: And yet Jesus calls his followers to recognize the legitimacy of the government while affirming their absolute allegiance to God.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: You see that, matthew 22 rendering the Caesar what is Caesar's.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: And so again we see Christians, or those early Jewish people under Roman rule.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: They are again called to participate in civic duty while remembering their loyalty.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: You move on real quickly to to uh, to revelation.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: In revelation, the Roman empire is symbolized as Babylon the great prostitute is what it calls her in revelation 17, who seduces the nations with wealth, power and idolatry.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: And so Babylon in Revelation resembles any worldly system, ie politics that elevates power, wealth and oppression over God's justice and righteousness.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: Revelation foretells of this eventual downfall, in Revelation 18, of Babylon the prostitute.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: And so the call to the church in Revelation is to not participate in this prostitution.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: Revelation 18 says come out of her, my people.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: I mean that Revelation 18, four, come out out of her, my people, the plea, because why Our hope should be in the kingdom of God.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: The final hope for all Christian is not in any earthly nation but in the kingdom of God, which will replace all worldly powers.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: And so, in conclusion, babylon is the Persians in the Old Testament, it's Rome in the New Testament.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: And who is it today?
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: What is Babylon?
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Well, that depends.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: If you're a Russian, babylon is the Russian church, that's the prostitute.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: If you're a German, I'm sorry, the Russian church.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: If you're Russian, babylon is mother Russia.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: If you're German, babylon is Germany, and if you're American, babylon is the United States of America.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: We are tempted to hand ourselves over to the promise of power and gain.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: Does that mean that we should not participate in civic duty?
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: Absolutely not.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: We play our role as civic citizens while remembering that our true hope is in God's kingdom to come.
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: Amen Easy Babel song.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: What's that?
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: New Babylon, Babylon, Babylon, that's his nickname.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Babylon's Wayne.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Mark, shoot this down.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Um, so you've heard people talk about how look, um, the internet is not evil.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Uh, AI is not evil, right?
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Uh, we can point to so many things.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Do you think that applies in?
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Politics is not evil?
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: In other words, there is that view that all politics is evil.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: We have Christians that write into us, even at times when we touch on political things.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Politics is evil.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: It's horrible.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Politics is not evil, but it can become so.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Tell us how.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I would say this that it wasn't God's first design for His people that God wanted to be the king and His people?
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: They wanted to have an earthly king, and so God gave them an earthly king.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: So what happens here?
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: There's a danger now with us.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Right, you say we're in political season.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Here there's a danger of equating political success with spiritual victory.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Right, when our guy gets inside and is able to make the decisions and make the rules, the laws, gets inside and is able to make the decisions and make the rules, the laws, if our guy or gal is able to become the president, god won, right?
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: No, listen, god will always win.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: God raises up political leaders as he sees fit.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: We've read the final chapter and we know that God will win.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: So there's no worrying.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: There's no pacing back and forth in the midst of an election time.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Right, we need to be careful with that.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: When you elevate a political leader to a Messiah-like status, your attempt is to try to dethrone the true king.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: When you are talking more about a political candidate in your day-to-day actions with people more than you're talking about God, we have idolatry.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: We have a problem.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Who am I voting for?
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Remember, I'm not voting for a savior.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I already have a savior and I'm not even voting for a savior for America.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: When I vote, I'm voting for a person who more aligns with my political ideology, which would mean that they are morally lining up more the way.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: I would want to vote who.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: I want to be in charge?
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Philippians 3.20 says but our citizenship is in heaven and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: It's been said that no political agenda can accomplish what the cross has already secured.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: You can take a litmus test if you would, and you can see where you stand when it comes to politics.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: If you want your pastor to talk more about politics than just to systematically go through the Word of God, now there's nothing wrong with a pastor to discuss politics, but you don't need to replace the Word of God for that political rant.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: If you would Maybe have a topical study, I'm not saying how you were to do that, but I'm just saying it's wise to stick within a text, because the text, it, changes people.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Perhaps you can have an announcement made or you can have.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Excuse me.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: There should have been water in that cup.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I wish I did.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I have a tadpole in my throat trying to evolve into a frog, so I'm going to try to drown.
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: That's true.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: We just need to be careful in that we don't replace.
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: God with politics.
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: Mark can't open the bottle.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: No, that's good, Mark.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Ray, what's that saying?
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: You'll like this one because Conway had science, knowledge, poly-tics.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: What is it?
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: Many bloodsuckers, many bloodsuckers.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: That's funny.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know I don't look, I don't blame people that get burned out on politics.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Let me let me speak as a person who was adopted by this nation.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: I love America and I've heard people say that and it's made me cringe.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: America, and I've heard people say that and it's made me cringe in that I know it's not coming from a place of like experiencing this country in contrast to another one that doesn't have what this country has.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: It's just a mantra, right, the people chant.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: But I want to say from the bottom of my heart I love this country in that I've come from a land where we don't have the freedoms that we have here.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, america is radically imperfect, we know that, and it's flawed and the reason why my heart breaks all the more is because it's headed in such a crazy direction.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: But you guys understand, like when I get up on a soapbox and I've said this several times, when I've done open air preaching when I stand up on a soapbox and I'm going toe to toe with a Muslim or a Hindu or a Buddhist or an atheist and like no bullets are flying, I'm not like going to get torched, ray, you remember, even in Israel, when you and I were open air preaching, we almost got killed.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: You know Lebanon same.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: You can't just get.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: You can't stand up in a community and just open air, preach the gospel.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I love America for that reason.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: You know that we're able to do that and the freedoms were afforded.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: But I know that I can make America an idol if I'm not careful.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: When I get the attitude that America can do no wrong, when it becomes America over the gospel, when I make people of other nations feel like you know they're inferior, you know to me or what have you, but, ray, how do people participate in the political process?
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Because I think we should have a healthy love for their nation and not allow it to drift into idolatry.
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, idolatry is when anything replaces what God should be in your life.
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: So when politics becomes our savior, then that's idolatry.
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: When we're looking to some person to deliver us and not looking to the Lord, when it becomes our source of joy instead of the Lord, when it becomes the means of supplying our needs, that's usurping what God should be in our lives.
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: I'm always going back to the book of Acts to say what was the church's attitude to the Roman government.
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: And it wasn't a political agenda, it was always the gospel.
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: No doubt they participated like we do in politics, as every Christian should.
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: I'll throw this out for you guys.
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: I often wonder if a certain network that Christians gravitate to is just a network that looks conservative but in reality they just know where their ratings are.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: I would say absolutely.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say lock, stock and barrel that every person who may be a part of this network or others like it is not genuinely conservative or cares about things.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: But you have kingpins there and you have those in their ivory towers that are controlling everything.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like setting up two systems against each other.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: That tension sells.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I was thinking about that last night.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: I was listening to someone talking about the other side and you get stirred up.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know, you get drawn in.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: I think so.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know what you guys think, absolutely I've said often.
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: I remember talking to somebody who's frustrated at his college-aged son because all he wanted to do is watch wwe.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: But I also happen to know this guy.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: All he wanted to do is watch I'll say it fox news.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: And in my mind I'm like aren't you doing the same thing?
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: Where did he learn it from?
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: Because politics is a theater and we all participate in the theater.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: That's the thing.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: That's crazy to me is that, like 90% of us already know how we're going to vote and yet we consume tens of hundreds of hours of political content, why we're just participating in the theater it's always the same yeah, they say look, this has happened, We'll bring in an expert.
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: And you've seen this guy the day before talking about the same thing and then just keep repeating it.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, what's interesting is like you'll see both sides and how they will spin something and just turn it this way or that way and you're like wait a minute.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, even at times when I'm listening to a liberal being scorched and I'll see the clip or I'll see the headline and then I'll go back and I'll look at everything they said.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: It's like this is a lie.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: You guys, this is not like you're not doing anyone favors by just being deceptive to get ratings or to get people to get.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: I've heard it said that CNN and Fox News are two puppets controlled by two different hands, but of the same person.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: That's so good yeah.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: So good.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: I love if I could recommend a book here and out of all the books that I've recommended on this podcast I'm looking up right now which means, of course, Ray and Mark are looking up the things that will never end.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Pray for Easy and I listener, If you know, out of the books that I've read, there's probably a top 10 list.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: I've never actually put it together, but if I did Political Visions and Illusions by David Koizis, it would probably make the top 10 list.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: Don't walk to this book, run to it.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: But I will warn you it's going to offend you if politics is in any way, shape or form playing an idolatrous way in your life.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: And so what he does is he points out that, because we are familiar with the gospels, with the gospels, we tend to make idols out of ideologies.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: He says it's in our nature to distort God's truth, to make creation our God and assign it a role only God can give.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: So he points out not, this is like I fell out of my chair and read this.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: He says if you notice, political ideologies tend to have an eschatological promise to them, an eschatological promise.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: And then he points out a few liberalism, conservatism, nationalism, democratism and socialism.
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: He says, if you pay close attention, every single one of those eschatologies has a creation, fall, redemption, consummation story to them.
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: Can you break that down for us simpletons, when you say eschatological In times?
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: How do we bring, basically, every single one of those ideologies is telling a story in conflict to God's story?
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: God's story is creation, fall, redemption, consummation to God's story.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: God's story is creation, fall, redemption, consummation.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: These ideologies has its own creation, fall, redemption, consummation story to them eschatology.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: So I'll give you one example, and he does this with all of them.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: He says, actually, I'll give you a few.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: Libertarianism believes that when true freedom is attained we'll have utopia.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: Communism believes that when equal outcome is obtained we'll have utopia.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: Conservatism believes that when we return to a golden age we'll have utopia.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: And so he breaks down how every single one of these ideologies tells a story and how people on both sides tend to believe in it.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: So liberalism he points out that, like at the beginning, we believe that we are all free.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: And then the garden is this sort of primitive freedom which is John Locke's story.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: But because of necessity, we increase in social contracts.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: So, like America is built on the social contract called the bill of rights.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: This is a necessary evil, a part of the fall of liberalism.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: The redemption story of liberalism is hyper individualism.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: You will be truly happy when you regain your individual freedom.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: This is echoing in a good way, the rights of the individual as image bearers that the gospel offers us, but it also distorts it, and that it elevates the individual and freedom over culture.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: And this is on both sides.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: So if you go to one side of the aisle and you say, well you'll, you'll hear both sides of the aisle argue for this utopian view of the world, this promise of redemption.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: On one side, they're going to warn you.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: They're going to say, hey, they're coming for your reproductive rights.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: We have a right to choose for ourself Hyper-libertarianism.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: On the other side, here we go, let's be offensive.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: They're coming for your guns.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: Hyper-libertarianism.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: In other words, both sides see the need for individual freedom over the need to care for their neighbors.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: And this is where, like what he does a great job of is, he points us back to Augustine Augustine.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: Augustine's view of sin, which is disordered loves.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: What he says is in each one of these ideologies there's good.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: There's good in libertarianism, but when we elevate libertarianism over our love for God, over our love for family, over our love for neighbor, that's when it becomes an idol.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: And we do this with conservatism, with nationalism, with democratism and socialism.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: These things become idols that we elevate over our love for God.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they manifest right and what we do Mark one of the biggest ways that politics becomes idolatry is when we begin to shoot arrows at our brothers and sisters in Christ.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, we've seen that in our own church, like online, yeah, you know the Christian firing squad lines up in a circle right, and it never gets old when you hear that we need to be careful, we need to.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: What is that saying, ez?
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: That in all things we have charity?
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: But before that it says I think that was Augustine actually.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, augustine, augustine.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Wait, mark, you're on the bandwagon with this dude why?
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: I can actually walk you through that later?
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Constantine Byzantine.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, here we go Anyway yeah, it's in the essentials unity, and the non-essentials liberty and all things, charity or love.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: If you were to hear that somebody is voting for Kamala Harris, right, we go crazy and we lose a head gasket, right, Instead of hey.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I'd be curious to know your story and your reasoning.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Why, right, there's a pastor at the end of my street who is all for Kamala Harris, right, but doesn't want to engage in no conversation about it.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: And I would understand why because any conversations that he's had with people, it's always gone at 100 miles an hour and it's off the roof and nobody can have a civil dialogue in the midst of it.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: We need to bring back that civility in the midst of our conversation, and I have no idea where I'm heading with that and why I brought that up.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: That's good.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: No, you're answering the question I asked.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Which is what?
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Which is don't we know it's become idolatrous when we start shooting arrows at one another as believers.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Oh, that was your question, yeah, or?
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: something like that.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Just go with it, bro.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy and it's sad, but I have to repent too, because I may not verbalize those things in a way that is evident.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: I'm shooting arrows, but, boy, in my heart sometimes I'm just, you know, versus like.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Again, there is that wicked, evil, unclean, impure self embrace of, of inordinate self-love.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: That's what it is.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: It's like all I care about is me and this, and that Tribalism.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's just terrible.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: But, ray, I think what Oscar's speaking to is discernment in things Like we're not throwing everything out the window and saying, oh well, there aren't evils in our country and there aren't parties that are wicked and others that may, you know, maybe align more with what we believe, but it's understanding that there's a bigger picture to all of this.
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what Augustine said.
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: Augustine the Philistine yeah, you got to know the Word, and I think that's the key.
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: If you don't know God's Word, then you'll get caught up in politics as a Christian.
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: But if you're soaked in the Word, you'll know where your affection should be and where your hope is.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: It's in Christ alone.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's important Faith alone, grace alone, giving us the solas now Romans 13,.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: One to two.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: Let every soul be subject to the governing authority.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: You know I should have let that one go before.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what were you thinking?
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: And?
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: I brought it back.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: It could have ended permanently right there.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: I know it just was weird.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: It's like dum-da-da-dum-dum Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Therefore, whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's a passage that makes it clear God does establish governing authorities.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: But at what point do we go against the government and we saw that a lot during COVID right, where the government makes a decision and says you can't do this, and some people did it anyway, because I think that there are places right, I think that there are righteous places, and one big example for that is no, you shall not meet together.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Well, good luck trying to shut down the church building.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Nowadays, based on what we saw with COVID, you cannot meet together, but we'll still have Planned Parenthood stay open.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Strip clubs Strip clubs stay open, and the Essential Church with John MacArthur's film was a great example of that with Erin Coates and her husband James James Coates, excuse me, yes, um and their son.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Big shout out to Caleb, who loves our podcast but we we need to.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: whenever it goes against what scripture has to say, we go against what the government has to say.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: I think that's just the bottom, yeah absolutely Carl Truman.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: I was.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: I was watching this Q and a with him and I was so moved.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: So he was.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: He was talking about that moment in history.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: It is a part of history now it's kind of crazy, but Carl Truman was talking about that moment in history.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: He's the guy that wrote the rise and triumph of the American self, um great book as well, but he's talks about how, um, he, you know, he gave his own personal views how the church should stay open.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: In that moment, he said.
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: He said the problem that he recognized, though in his own tribe is, he pointed out, the scriptures call us to want to submit, but the American wants to rebel.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: And so he said, even amongst my friends there was this like, yeah, let's rebel against the government.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: And he said, our dispositions as Christians should look to the government and go man, the Lord, our Jesus, calls us to submit to you, but because of what you're doing, we can't do that right now.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: We want to submit to you, but you're forcing us not to.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: And so the disposition I just I loved what Carl Truman pointed out Like our disposition shouldn't be rebellion, it should be submission to the point that the government forces us not to, but it should be like a place of lament, not power and pride.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, amen, I agree 100% yeah.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: And Mark, to answer the question, my favorite saying as it relates to this realm is we're to rebel against authority whenever we're commanded to do something God forbids, or forbidden to do something God commands.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Say that again.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: That's really good.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Say it again, rebell really good Say it again, is that?
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: original no.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: No, no, it's a quote.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to sneeze.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Rebellion the only time rebellion is acceptable is if we're commanded to do something God forbids, or we're forbidden to do something God commands.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: So bow before these idols.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: We're commanded to do something God forbids or don't worship God.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: We're forbidden to do something God commands or kill all male children.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, yeah, the Hebrew midwives, yes, yeah, but my point in sharing Romans 12 is that God established, or Romans 13, god establishes.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: I was going to correct you, but I thought, no, I will not correct.
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: I want to be that sort of person.
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: But God establishes.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: I was going to correct you, but I thought, no, I will not correct, I don't want to be that sort of person.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: But God establishes governing authorities.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: You know, ray 1, timothy 2, 1-2.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Fabulous.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Therefore, I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: Speak to that as it relates to us as believers in a culture wanting to get the gospel out.
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: Yes, it's a wonderful Bible.
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's so relevant in an age where everyone's getting angry and upset that we're primarily called to be peacemakers.
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: So as much as lies in you, be at peace with all men, Scripture says, and so that's why we've got to be very careful with the type of language we use.
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: I don't mean bad language, but just inflammatory language.
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: We can calm situations with the oil of correct wording whatever that means oh is that original.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Larry, I got it off.
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: Augustine, augustoon, we're going to keep just evolving.
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: The guy, yeah, that original, larry.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: I got it off Augustine Augustoon.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: We're going to keep just evolving.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: The guy, yeah, that's good, ray.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, so, ray, I do have a question for you though, oh dear.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: The government says you cannot preach the gospel.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, we're a ministry here, obviously we're a ministry whose focus is to get people to preach the gospel.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: How would you handle that?
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's not, no, you can't open air preachers.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: You cannot, and you know a lot of countries have that law.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: You can't proselytize, right.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: You cannot preach the gospel to anyone.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: What would you do?
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: You cannot put glasses on your dog.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Ooh, oh, now we're getting serious.
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: Now we're getting personal.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: No baskets for your dog on your bike like you have.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: I don't even, Don't you dare EC.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: What's it called, Ray?
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: It's a platform.
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: A basket is for someone who's 95 and they've got three wheels on their bike.
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: I do not want a basket bike.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Apologies to all 95-year-olds.
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I've often thought about that I've thought of it, 95-year-old listening to my program.
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: If Sarita's College says you can't come in this college anymore, I will wait on the outside of the college for when people come in and I'll get them into going in and going out.
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: So by all means, reach someone.
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: I'll just keep doing it.
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: You can't talk to anyone at all about the gospel, inside or outside.
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: As nicely as I can, I'd say shut up, I'm doing it, get you out of my face.
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm still doing it.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm still doing it.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you would still, of course, continue to do it.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: So I think the bottom line here is right we occupy until he comes, we vote.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: You're on a trail and there's a trash.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: You pick up trash.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: You are not allowing your roots to be established too deep here on earth.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Our hope is not in the next president or congressman, or whatever it may be.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Psalm 146, verse 3 oh, yes, wonderful yes I was thinking when you said we vote.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: I was thinking of votey bocum I can't say it properly votey bocum bocum.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: We should have a votey, bocum.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, our show.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: It says put not your trust in princes and a son of man in whom there is no salvation.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: We do not need to lose sleep come November 7th or 8th, when it has been decided who the next president of the United States is.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: We are allowed to lose sleep as much as God is losing sleep and he's not losing sleep.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Remember, we've read the last chapter.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: We see that God wins.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: So we vote, we put our finances towards those areas if you have a conviction to do so, but we leave the results in the hands of an omnipotent God who can do whatever he wants whenever he wants, to whomever he wants.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: He doesn't answer to anyone.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: He places kings and queens in authority and everything is running according to his plan.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: So don't worry about tomorrow.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: Today you are freed up to walk with God hand in hand, to get a job, to quit a job and get another job, to go watch a movie, to play a game, to share the gospel with people, knowing that God is in control, he is on his throne and he doesn't need your wisdom, your advice, and if he needed counsel, you wouldn't know about it.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: Sad, disappointed, grieved in relation to an outcome politically that you don't like.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: But undone is a problem.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Right Undone is a problem.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: That's the word.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: And we see that I mean like people seriously, like almost literally fall apart, ah it's over.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: What what's?
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: over?
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Is the Lord sitting in?
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: heaven going.
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: ah, I didn't see that coming A lot of the Democrats said they'd leave the country.
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: I don't think they did.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: You know what, if I hear that again, like how many people say, oh, I'm going to give it up Like stop saying that You're not going to do it.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: But you know, but, oscar, isn't that a good example of being caught up in the heat of the moment, like it's become everything to where you're going to actually say something you know you're not going to do?
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: I'm moving to Venezuela, right, you know, yeah.
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we, we put on these lenses when we start seeing the world through the lens of whatever political affiliations we have.
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: This is actually a warning that Charles Taylor gave us when he wrote his book A Secular Age.
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: He said that we would devolve our view of ourselves from God and family to politics and sexuality.
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: And I mean, is there anything more true that you've heard today?
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: We view ourselves through the lens of politics and you think about, like I apply that to myself.
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: If my neighbor moves in and you know he votes the way I vote, I am more likely to think in some distorted way oh, maybe he's a Christian or closer to God because of how he votes.
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: Why do I think that way?
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: And the worst it is, I read this book and the pastor was telling the story.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I've ever shared this on the podcast before.
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: He's telling the story that the neighbor they were a non-believing family and they were going through a divorce for years.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: This pastor and his family tried inviting them to church.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: They had a little son, I think he was like 11, 12 years old and so one sunday that the mom calls up and is like hey, I've got this thing and, aaron, I need to run, can you watch my son for me?
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: And they're like, yeah, but I'm preaching this sunday.
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: He's coming to church with us and she's like, that's fine, I just need someone to watch him.
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: So this is the first time this 11 or 12 year old kid is walking to a church.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: They go pick him up.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: He's wearing an obama shirt.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: It's kind of funny.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: They church, they go pick him up.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: He's wearing an Obama shirt.
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: It's kind of funny.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: They pick him up, they take him to church and they're all getting ready.
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: The little boy's walking down the center aisle to his seat and one of the elders looks at him and goes, boy, you better take that shirt off before God burns it off of you.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: Now, was that elder looking at that child through the lens of the gospel, as his primary identity is a son of the living God who saved them, or was he looking at that child through his identity of being a political idea?
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: Right, and so that's my big takeaway here is know who you are.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: You are a child of God who have been adopted into his family in a part of his kingdom.
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: You can have your political affiliations, but check out the order of your love, an Augustinian way of looking at sin.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: Have those priorities important to you?
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: I get it, but your primary identity is being a child of God and being a witness to this world.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: Amen, oscar, that's so good.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and and right.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: That's the thing it's like when we set aside love and the gospel because we're so consumed by something, an agenda, a certain pet political topic, whatever it might be.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Now again, let me again be clear, friends.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Proverbs 29 says when the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: I don't want anyone to listen to this podcast and walk away saying the Living Waters guys.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: They say, don't be involved, absolutely not.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: We need to totally be involved.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: We need to run for office.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: As Christians, we need to vote for the most God-oriented political party or candidate that would align with righteous causes.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Right, we're to teach our kids about politics.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's the blessing of America and why I love it.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: We can be involved in the process.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: How foolish that we get the opportunity and say, no, I don't want to be politics, or ridiculous.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: Well, we can make a difference, of course, but what we're saying is we are citizens of another kingdom, primarily, and so we need to act like that.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: The gospel is foremost.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Loving people is foremost.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: You should be able to look at a person that is not a part of your political party and smile and love them and laugh with them and tell them if the conversation comes up, why you disagree with these things, why you think some of these things are evil.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: I'm not talking about compromise.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: I'm not talking about wimping out on standing up Of course not.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: But how do you do it?
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: And the most important thing is that person's soul.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: You need to be looking at it through that lens.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: How will this affect their soul?
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: From me, as an ambassador of Jesus Christ, that has to be primary.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: So right Ray Amen.
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: Amen to that.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Ray has a freedom to wear these cool new glasses.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: We like them.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: Ray, they look good on you, do they bend?
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they do in Smith.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: We like them, ray.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: They look good on you, do they bend yeah?
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: My daughter loves them, and so does my wife.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: I love them.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: They look great on you.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Sophisticated.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: Do they make them?
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: for men.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Do they come in man's?
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, alright, friends, I'd?
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: never buy anything that belongs to a woman.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Unless it's a bike.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if he's buying, he's buying a bike.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: Or like the sweater he was wearing, the easy he was wearing the other day.
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: It was sweet I like it, it was sweet yeah.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: All right friends.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: There you have it, boy.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: I enjoyed that guys and I hope look, I hope that and you know we've had some people and say one of the things I find refreshing is that you guys disagree about things and yet there's a cordial atmosphere between you.
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: I don't think there is.
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: I disagree.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: Wait until we unplug.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so there you have it, friends.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: Do that why?
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: Jesus Answers to life's most important questions.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: The Living Waters of Mind, the Evidence Study Bible, alllivingwaterscom podcast at livingwaterscom.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Thank, thank you, friends.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: We'll see you next time on the Little Bunch Podcast.