Latest / Beyond Fulfillment Podcast / Why Most Commercial Real Estate Agents Quit and How to Beat the Odds with Joe Killinger

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Why Most Commercial Real Estate Agents Quit and How to Beat the Odds with Joe Killinger · Beyond Fulfillment Podcast

• 0:05
  And there, I think, lies.
• 0:07
  The real issue with our industry is there's just not enough training.
• 0:12
  Today's guest is Joe Killinger, a powerhouse in commercial real estate who has successfully scaled three separate companies to over $5 million each, all using different growth strategies, from cold calling to referrals and SEO marketing.
• 0:28
  Joe is not just a top producer.
• 0:30
  He's now on a mission to revolutionize how the industry trains and empowers the next generation of agents.
• 0:38
  In this episode, Joe dives into why commercial real estate brokerage is broken for new agents with insights on a staggering churn rate.
• 0:46
  Up to 92% of newcomers leave in the first few years.
• 0:50
  He uncovers the must have entrepreneurial mindset, the importance of authentic relationship building and and the value of meaningful training.
• 1:00
  You'll also hear how Joe is leveraging innovative content marketing and an affiliate network to compete with the industry giants, and why commercial real estate might be the perfect path for young adults deciding between college and launching a career.
• 1:15
  If you're interested in the future of real estate, actionable strategies and a fresh perspective from someone who's been at the top and is now giving back, you won't want to miss this episode.
• 1:25
  As always, if you found value from this content, please like and subscribe.
• 1:32
  All right, Joe Killinger, welcome to Beyond Fulfillment.
• 1:35
  Thank you for having me on, Dave.
• 1:37
  I look forward to it.
• 1:38
  Yes, sir.
• 1:38
  We appreciate you taking the time to be here.
• 1:41
  So, Joe, you've been in commercial real estate for quite some time now and have been very successful.
• 1:48
  In fact, you've scaled three separate companies to over $5 million each.
• 1:55
  And now you're focusing a lot of your efforts on training the next generation of commercial real estate agents because according to you, that the industry is broken.
• 2:09
  Can you just talk about like that, that training disconnect and what you're doing with, with your companies?
• 2:16
  Absolutely, Dave.
• 2:17
  Yeah, It's.
• 2:17
  I did 5 million in the first 18 months and it was for these companies is what I wanted to clarify because the first one was without any Internet, which was absolutely, you know, it's what we had to do
• 2:30
  when we started with just cold calling and door knocking and networking too.
• 2:35
  But the second one was strictly off of referrals from residential agents.
• 2:40
  And then the last one was a combination of SEO marketing, the residential agents that we knew, and cold calling.
• 2:47
  So it was a combination.
• 2:48
  It just kind of stair stepped up and that's how we grew those.
• 2:51
  And so I have a lot of experience in showing people how to grow their business.
• 2:55
  And yes, I do think the commercial real estate Brokerage industry, as far as getting new people into the industry is really broken.
• 3:02
  But I do think there's a huge opportunity for any new people that want to get into commercial real estate brokerage to really jump in and make a ton of money.
• 3:10
  Because the way it has been over the last several years is you bring somebody in, you interview them a couple times, you're like, okay, this person has their license, let's get them onto our company.
• 3:23
  You get them started, you essentially put a phone book in front of them and say, hey, here's your leads.
• 3:28
  Go do it.
• 3:29
  And there, I think lies.
• 3:31
  The real issue with our industry is there's just not enough training.
• 3:36
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• 4:13
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• 4:20
  Calm, I think, you know, as a commercial real estate brokerage firm, which I own, Commercial Brokers International here in Los Angeles, or I'm a partner in it, you know, we really focus on training.
• 4:31
  So every morning we're going to DO training from 8, from 8:30 to 9:30.
• 4:35
  And the CEO of the company actually does the training.
• 4:37
  Then on Tuesdays and Thursday nights before we go home, we sit down with a new agent, say, okay, what's working for you?
• 4:43
  You know, what's not working for you and how can we make you better at it?
• 4:48
  And I've seen agents over the years that have just.
• 4:51
  I mean, we still lose agents, don't get me wrong.
• 4:54
  Because some agents, I think they watch those shows like Million Dollar Listing and all that, you know, they're walking around on their cell phone doing deals.
• 5:00
  That's not commercial real estate.
• 5:02
  You know, this is a real business that it takes a lot, it takes time to get going, but you need to get the proper training and it's going to allow a younger generation to really thrive within our industry.
• 5:15
  Okay, and so a couple things.
• 5:18
  What, what's the churn rate of new agents like in industry wide?
• 5:23
  You have a seat belt on.
• 5:25
  It's between within the first few years, Dave.
• 5:27
  It's between 87 and 92%.
• 5:29
  And, and I can tell you why.
• 5:31
  It's obviously it's a lack of training.
• 5:33
  It's, it's, you know, a lot of these major companies, they bring these young people in and they say, okay, here's your senior, the senior's gonna train you and they're gonna take a percentage of every lead that you bring
• 5:44
  in, plus the company's gonna get a percentage of the lead that you bring in.
• 5:48
  So you know, you're gonna have to do a lot of deals to make sure you put enough food on the table to pay your rent and eat and.
• 5:53
  Or you get a small firm, an independent brokerage that doesn't really do any training and just kind of cut you loose.
• 6:00
  And you know, that's why we have such a, you know, when I say cut you loose, they just put you on the phones and don't really give you any training.
• 6:08
  So it's essential that you, as an agent that's getting into the market, go out and interview these brokerage companies just as much as they're interviewing you.
• 6:16
  Because you want to make sure that, you know, with, if you have $10,000 to live off of the next year or whatever the number is that you're not going to burn through that and not have brought any revenue
• 6:27
  in.
• 6:27
  You want to make sure you're going to a firm that is going to give you the training, going to give you the knowledge base and the tools to really go out and thrive.
• 6:35
  So really focus on interviewing those brokerage firms before you accept.
• 6:40
  Okay.
• 6:40
  And so that, yeah, like you said, the churn rate is.
• 6:44
  That's insane, isn't it?
• 6:46
  That's insane.
• 6:46
  Yeah, that's a good way to describe it.
• 6:48
  So, but the ones that stick, that small percentage of agents that stick and make this a long term career where what, what do you see as different about them versus all the ones that leave the industry?
• 7:00
  A lot of it is mindset.
• 7:04
  They've come in knowing that it's I'm going to be in that office at 8 o' clock in the morning and I'm not going to leave until I have an appointment.
• 7:11
  You know, they just are real, real estate entrepreneurs that want to succeed.
• 7:16
  It is a kill what you eat industry or eat what you kill industry.
• 7:21
  And and so you've got to have the mindset, you got to be a real entrepreneur and you know, but there's a lot of those out there.
• 7:27
  And so I think mindset is a lot of it.
• 7:30
  Ability to listen and learn.
• 7:33
  Also I've I've talked to so many young people that what I'm interviewing, they're telling me how they're going to market themselves and how they're going to grow their business.
• 7:44
  And I'm like, well, none of that's going to work.
• 7:46
  You know, nobody is going to give you business right off the bat because you have no experience and you have to, you have to really prove yourself first.
• 7:53
  You've got to build trust.
• 7:54
  You got to be authentic in what you're putting out.
• 7:58
  And, you know, if you're brand new, it's going to be hard to do unless you come from a family that has a ton of business or a ton of real estate already.
• 8:04
  Right.
• 8:05
  But it's just really hard to do.
• 8:07
  So mindset and then ability to listen and learn.
• 8:10
  Okay, all right.
• 8:11
  And then as far as, like, the training, like what, like you said, it sounds, it sounds insane as well that even in this day and age, giving what the market's like and how competitive it is out there, where
• 8:24
  companies are just basically giving young kids a phone book and saying, here, go sell something.
• 8:30
  I mean, as far as the training, like, how quick can that make a difference in terms of when you're seeing agents basically close deals and basically bring in some revenue when they get started with a company like yours
• 8:46
  that has real training?
• 8:48
  Yeah, it's, it depends on the person.
• 8:50
  So I don't, don't want to dodge the answer, but it just really depends on the individual and how well versed they are in real estate.
• 8:55
  So when you go into some of these firms, they're going to put you on the phones, you know, day two, and they're just going to say, okay, start generating leads for your senior.
• 9:04
  You know, get out there and do it.
• 9:06
  Ask your senior any questions you have.
• 9:08
  What we do in our company, and it's not like we're the, we still have turnover.
• 9:13
  I don't want to sound like we're, you know, we're the best at it.
• 9:16
  We're still learning as we go.
• 9:18
  But, you know, what we'll do is we'll take an agent and they'll.
• 9:22
  Their first week, they're going to do nothing but sit on the systems and learn the asset class in the market they want to be in.
• 9:28
  And we tell them, before you pick a market and pick an asset class, I want you to understand what is making money in what area.
• 9:36
  So take a few days look at.
• 9:39
  So if it's multifamily in Santa Monica, that sounds great, right?
• 9:44
  But what if there's only 20 buildings a year selling, that's your, there's not enough churn there.
• 9:49
  You're not going to make enough money.
• 9:51
  And so you want to pick an asset class in a market that's actually working.
• 9:55
  Or let's say it's, you're, you're in a market that it's, you're going to, you want to do industrial, but it's selling it a dollar a foot.
• 10:02
  The average size is, you know, 5,000 square feet.
• 10:06
  Well, how many of those deals do you have to do in a year?
• 10:08
  It's a lot.
• 10:09
  So really do an analysis of the market and the asset class and really focus on an area that you want to be in.
• 10:15
  And I always suggest have it close to your home.
• 10:18
  But you really want to make sure that you do this study before you get on the phones.
• 10:22
  But then once you decide the asset class in the market, I want you to study the market and know it better than anybody else.
• 10:28
  Because like it or not, I can pick up the phone and call some of the companies that are our competition and I can talk to their newer agents that have been in the business for a year or two.
• 10:37
  I, I can ask them about what's going on in their marketplace and they really won't know.
• 10:41
  So they've got, they've got their script and that's what they know.
• 10:45
  Right.
• 10:45
  And they're probably really good at it and they don't mind that constant rejection.
• 10:49
  But what we do is your first week is asset class market.
• 10:55
  Learn that market.
• 10:56
  Then I sit down with you and I'm going to ask you questions.
• 10:58
  Okay?
• 10:59
  You want to do multi family in Beverly Hills.
• 11:02
  How many properties are on the market right now?
• 11:05
  What's the average days on market?
• 11:06
  What's the average list price and what's the sales price compared to the list price?
• 11:10
  What's the average size of the building?
• 11:12
  I want to know all that before you get on the phones.
• 11:14
  Because now when you get on the phones, you can actually have a conversation with somebody that owns multifamily in Beverly Hills because you've got all this data in your head that you know that you can bring value to
• 11:25
  that person on the other end of the phone.
• 11:26
  Instead of calling up, say, hey, this is Joe Schmo from AB bccommercial.com I want to do you.
• 11:35
  Are you thinking about buying, selling or leasing any real estate?
• 11:38
  No, you're not?
• 11:38
  Okay, goodbye.
• 11:39
  Onto the next call.
• 11:41
  You've got to be smart about this.
• 11:43
  And really, I mean, when I got started, I got started in residential Lincoln, Nebraska, and they Literally gave me a phone book to start calling out of.
• 11:52
  So I learned that that wasn't the way to do it.
• 11:54
  It's the hardest way to build business.
• 11:56
  And so, yeah, that's, that's what we do is we really want our agents to know their market before they even touch the phone.
• 12:04
  Okay.
• 12:04
  All right.
• 12:05
  And so you.
• 12:05
  You're focusing.
• 12:06
  You're in Los Angeles, so you're focusing on that.
• 12:09
  That surrounding area with, with your commercial, right?
• 12:11
  Yep.
• 12:12
  Yeah, we're full service brokerage in Los Angeles, and we have our affiliate network that's all around the country.
• 12:19
  Okay.
• 12:19
  And let's actually talk about that for a minute because I know you told me a little bit about that off camera, but talk about what that does and how that's helped your business grow.
• 12:29
  Yeah.
• 12:30
  So it came out of frustration.
• 12:32
  So I, you know, this is, this is one of the companies that I haven't raised a lot of revenue with because we're doing it for free, and I think we will monetize it at some point.
• 12:42
  And.
• 12:42
  But so we had.
• 12:43
  We brought in a client, and they came from New Zealand and they want to do business here in Los Angeles.
• 12:50
  And they called us because of our.
• 12:51
  We do a lot of.
• 12:52
  Lot of marketing, content creation, marketing, and with our brokerage.
• 12:57
  And they called us and said, hey, we want to come to United States.
• 12:59
  We helped them move, not just their corporate offices, but a lot of their employees over, got them housing.
• 13:05
  They came in here.
• 13:06
  I think we opened nine stores for them.
• 13:08
  And then they said, okay, we want to go to Texas, Florida, New York.
• 13:12
  And we're like, oh, man, we can't help you.
• 13:14
  So we ended up giving up that client.
• 13:16
  And this has been years ago, not just that burned in me, and.
• 13:20
  Which in the end, they grew too fast, end up not going very far anyway.
• 13:24
  So I didn't lose out on that much.
• 13:25
  But still in my mind, I'm like, okay, we got to do something different because we really missed this opportunity, so we need to be part of an affiliate network.
• 13:33
  And so I decided, all right, let's.
• 13:35
  Let's call on these affiliate networks.
• 13:37
  And Dave, when I found out what affiliate networks charge, I was like, there's no way any independent real estate, commercial real estate firm can afford to do this.
• 13:46
  That's our size.
• 13:47
  You know, we're 20 agents, but we can't afford to do something.
• 13:52
  The numbers were astronomical.
• 13:53
  There was an annual fee.
• 13:54
  There was a fee every time you do a deal.
• 13:56
  So during COVID we were all sitting around watching our hair grow.
• 13:59
  Right.
• 14:00
  And I Thought, let's, let's do something about this affiliate network.
• 14:03
  So I did some studying and I just started calling brokers from around the country.
• 14:08
  Those that were actually in the office, they answered the phone.
• 14:10
  I start talking to them and, and say, is this something that you would be interested in?
• 14:15
  And then I'd have to vet them out through other means.
• 14:18
  Fortunately, we just started with areas that we, and brokerages and cities that we knew that we could get references.
• 14:24
  And we created a commercial real estate affiliate network.
• 14:27
  We're at 27 members right now.
• 14:28
  Our fee structure is this is if I send, let's say you're part of the affiliate network, Dave.
• 14:34
  If I send you a deal, I get a referral feedback.
• 14:37
  That's the only expense.
• 14:39
  Now, you know where I am probably, and I need to figure out is how can I monetize this company?
• 14:45
  And I'll do that at some point as we grow.
• 14:47
  But right now it's allowed Commercial Brokers International to do deals around the country.
• 14:52
  So we've got deals going in Texas, Florida, Chicago, and I think one in Nebraska too.
• 15:00
  So, you know, so we've got deals going around and these guys are all working together.
• 15:05
  And, you know, it's, it's pretty amazing to see them being able to compete against the big CBRE JLLs of the world because of this network.
• 15:14
  Okay.
• 15:15
  All right.
• 15:15
  And you know, you bring up again, the big companies, right, that, that dominate the industry.
• 15:20
  And so your, your firm, relatively small at 20 agents.
• 15:25
  But, but like you mentioned, you do a lot of content marketing, right, where you've got this YouTube channel that's thriving.
• 15:32
  You know, you do a lot of SEO.
• 15:35
  How is, like, how important today would you say is content marketing for an entrepreneur?
• 15:41
  Oh, it's, it's the way to go.
• 15:43
  You know, I'm getting ready to shoot a video on.
• 15:45
  I'm going to do it later today on, you know, instead of chasing leads, get clients to contact you.
• 15:52
  And content creation is going to allow that.
• 15:54
  You know, there's so many things that you can be doing as a firm or as a brokerage to really grow your business.
• 15:59
  And our Commercial Brokers International, we probably get two to three leads a week.
• 16:06
  Probably one a week is decent.
• 16:08
  You know, the rest are just, they're, they're figuring it out as they go.
• 16:12
  But I've got one client, one agent that has three, two national clients, one international client, all from our SEO content, and she's putting them in retail all around the country.
• 16:24
  So it's very important.
• 16:25
  So if you really want to get going.
• 16:26
  Obviously cold calling is going to be part of sales and commercial real estate.
• 16:30
  That's never going to go away.
• 16:31
  Cold calling is going to be part of it.
• 16:33
  But I also want to see agents creating content that is value driven and you're being authentic and putting it out on a regular basis and you want to get people to call you.
• 16:45
  And you do that by putting, putting content out.
• 16:48
  That's there's just to start, you should just use three pillars, right?
• 16:51
  There should be your asset class that you're working in, the market you're working in and then a little bit about you.
• 16:58
  You know, you don't want to be talking about, you know, show yourself out drinking every day and all that, but you want to show yourself out doing things socially just so it kind of lowers the barrier.
• 17:09
  And I can give you an example.
• 17:10
  There's a guy that I know, Kyle and Sarah, that his actually he has a French bulldog and he was shooting a TikTok video of all things and the French bulldog walked into the shot and he just left him
• 17:21
  there.
• 17:22
  Lo and behold, in a couple of days another guy saw that it was a restaurant entrepreneur, saw the video and called him up and goes, hey, I have a French bulldog too and I'm in your area.
• 17:32
  Let's connect.
• 17:33
  I want to talk to you.
• 17:34
  Let's get our dogs together and let's talk.
• 17:36
  So that lowers that barrier, makes it easier for people to call you and it brings clients to you and those clients that are coming to you.
• 17:43
  The close rate is so much higher than cold calling.
• 17:47
  So yes, content creation, getting a Google business page, you want to make sure you do that.
• 17:52
  I was speaking at a conference a couple weeks ago and I asked the audience, I think there's 140 people there, asked him how many people have a Google business page?
• 18:01
  Less than 10 raise their hands.
• 18:03
  So just that and using it consistently.
• 18:07
  If you're posting on all your social media, also post on your Google business page.
• 18:12
  It's going to help a lot.
• 18:13
  And last but not least, proof stacking.
• 18:16
  If you really want to really build your business, you need to be doing proof stacking.
• 18:22
  And Edward Winslow wrote an incredible book about it.
• 18:25
  He's actually the one that created it.
• 18:27
  And proof stacking is simply when you how did I immediately you write it to either write a blog or a white paper about how you met this client, a little bit about the client, what were the pain points
• 18:40
  of the client, how you look for properties for this client, how you resolved all the pain points and then the end result and Then you post that on your website or on medium.com or on LinkedIn.
• 18:53
  And then that's going to live on the Internet and people are going to Google your name.
• 18:57
  Google a commercial broker in Timbuktu.
• 19:00
  And there you are, the broker of Timbuktu.
• 19:02
  And you show that you've done business in that marketplace and in that, in a certain asset class.
• 19:07
  And if it's in the asset class that they are looking at, you're probably going to get a phone call.
• 19:13
  Okay.
• 19:14
  All right.
• 19:14
  Another thing, Joe, I wanted to get your take on, because a big conversation these days, particularly with young adults or kids, you know, is, is the college conversation, like, is college worth it today?
• 19:27
  When you look at the cost, when you look at the issues people are having getting jobs within their degree or even jobs that are at a livable wage per se, after they've paid for a college education.
• 19:39
  Right.
• 19:39
  And I'm.
• 19:40
  You're dealing with a similar age group, right, with all these new agents coming in.
• 19:46
  So from your perspective, being in this industry and having built these companies, and now you're at the point where you're really trying to give back and, and, you know, create change with, with better training to create more opportunity.
• 20:00
  Why is commercial real estate a good option for a young adult when they're weighing a career today?
• 20:07
  The, the opportunities are endless.
• 20:11
  And I mean, as far as a career, you know, I think we've got agents that started just a year ago and they've done a good number of deals.
• 20:19
  And, you know, they're in their mid-20s and late 20s.
• 20:23
  And, you know, by the time they're 30, they're going to be making several hundred thousand dollars a year and they can build a lifestyle.
• 20:31
  I mean, think about if you're 24 now, by the time you're 30, think of the client base you've got, you've built up over those, those years, those.
• 20:39
  And if you stay in touch, it's going to be a lot of repeat business coming in and it just is going to fold in on itself.
• 20:45
  It's just going to keep going and growing and growing.
• 20:48
  It's just going to get bigger and bigger and bigger.
• 20:50
  And so, you know, but I was thinking when you were asking the question about college, and I'm sitting here, David, I think I might be the only one in our office that doesn't have a college education.
• 21:01
  I was sitting here thinking about, my God dang, I might be the only one.
• 21:06
  But I'm not sure that that's true.
• 21:07
  But there's almost everybody that I know is in the office right now.
• 21:11
  Did go to college, so and they all had a degree.
• 21:14
  But it does if you do go to college.
• 21:16
  You know, I'm all, it depends on the person.
• 21:19
  You know, I.
• 21:20
  It didn't work.
• 21:21
  I ran out of money because our family.
• 21:23
  I grew up on a farm in central Nebraska.
• 21:25
  We ended up losing the farm.
• 21:26
  My right was I was going to college.
• 21:28
  So we just ran out of money and I couldn't afford it.
• 21:30
  So I had to get in my car and I drove to California and that's where I ended up ran out of money here.
• 21:36
  It was a beautiful few years, but it really depends on the person.
• 21:40
  But if you do do make it, you do get your degree, it shows you have the stick to it.
• 21:46
  Iveness to really get something.
• 21:48
  And I don't think you need to have it for a lot of careers.
• 21:52
  But, you know, I don't, I don't think it hurts and know but it just, it's a personal preference, I think.
• 21:59
  Okay.
• 22:00
  All right.
• 22:00
  And so, Joe, if people are seeing this, they are either in real estate or they're considering real estate.
• 22:06
  They want to learn more about your firm, your training, your programs, what you do.
• 22:11
  What's the best way that people can reach out to you?
• 22:14
  They can go to the website.
• 22:15
  JOE KILLINGER co.
• 22:16
  Matter of fact, if you're thinking about commercial real estate, I wrote a booklet and this is all free.
• 22:21
  Everything on my website is free.
• 22:22
  It's all geared toward helping people get into commercial or it doesn't need to be just commercial.
• 22:27
  Residential too.
• 22:28
  You want to become a real estate agent, There's a booklet on there under Learning.
• 22:32
  It's your first 90 days in commercial real estate.
• 22:34
  Again, it's free.
• 22:35
  Download it, take it, learn it.
• 22:39
  So joecellinger co.
• 22:40
  Also, my YouTube channel is just under my name.
• 22:43
  All my social media is under Joe Kellinger.
• 22:45
  I'm easy to get hold of and I like it that way so people can reach out.
• 22:49
  I spend probably a good two to three hours a week mentoring people around the country, actually around the globe.
• 22:55
  I was on the phone with a guy from Vietnam this morning, of all places.
• 22:58
  So, you know, it's reach out, don't hesitate.
• 23:02
  Happy to help you, help you get into the real estate industry.
• 23:06
  Okay.
• 23:07
  All right, we'll link all that in the show notes for everyone as well.
• 23:09
  Okay, thank you.
• 23:10
  All right, Joe, thank you so much for taking the time to be here and sharing all this valuable wisdom from your journey with our audience.
• 23:16
  We greatly appreciate it.
• 23:18
  Dave, thank you for having me on.
• 23:19
  I appreciate it.