Latest / Beheaded / Whispers of Maleficium: The Pendle Witch Trials (Part II)

Transcript

Whispers of Maleficium: The Pendle Witch Trials (Part II) · Beheaded

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to season six, episode 13, part two.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Megan Moore.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Elizabeth Black.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, your sister's on a dating show.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Can we address I I told Megan before we started recording, I was like, by the way, like my sister, who recently moved back to Denver, love her.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: She was in town for a bit, now she's back home.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, apparently was on like a local Denver dating show.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_04: I'm shook.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it was funny because I don't think she really like told our family or anyone we knew.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: We just like discovered it on her social media, which I'm not even on my Instagram that often.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: It was more so Robbie was like, Hey, is your sister doing a thing, a thing?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What is this thing?
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: And she yeah, had a whole bio and a like join me on this day for this date night thing.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just showed Megan.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was just watching some of it and it's comical.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's so weird to see your sister on it.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if anyone's in the Denver area and looking for uh a date, love some love, we can uh advertise your sister.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it sounds like she's she's looking.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: She's looking.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um ex-NFL cheerleader.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Ex-NFL cheerleader works at a law office, um, very, very active and very fit and looking for love in the Denver C.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: 27.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: She's 27.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Reach out if you're interested.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Are we selling your sister?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe this is now creepy.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is not trying to be.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so sorry.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: She's wonderful, she's great.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um she was on the dating show.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it was one of those things where like, again, I I don't know what the show is, but it's called Date Night Podcast.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: You could probably look it up, to be honest.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: But they have it in Denver and Minneapolis.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the structure of the show is that you like you, if you're the person who's featured, uh-huh, you get three speed dates.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: So like I would be on stage, pretend it's me, okay?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Elizabeth Black, I'm on stage, and I have to date with you.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you can be like the MC who's who's narrating the event, and then on stage with us are like three random dudes, and I have a speed date thing with each of them for like 10 minutes.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds stressful.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you ask each other, you know, tense questions and like very get-to-know-you questions, and then at the end of the three, you decide which one you want to go on a second date with.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we just watched some of this with my sister.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was so funny to see.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because, like, I mean, to me, she's like my baby sister.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: She's all grown up.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Dayton on TV, dating on TV podcasts, and we should turn this into a dating podcast.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: We shouldn't have to be.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Neither of us are available.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, no, but imagine if it were like um King Henry VIII trying to find his next wife.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: That would have been much faster.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Or or like setting up, I don't know, Catherine Parr with someone new after he dies.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what if it was like old school dating matchmaking?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not against matchmaking or dating shows.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a fun concept.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think the key is though, you just have to present who you are actually.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like how would you date?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: How would you speed date?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I haven't been single in a long time, but I feel like for me, like you have to know my pillars.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I always think of inside out and like your islands of personality.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And like once you want to show off.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: What are your core things?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you should show all of them, I think, to be to be honest with you.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: I like to hide many of my personalities, but yes.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: But like, I think, you know, for me, it's like you have to know, like, I'm a Disney person.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a freaking Disney weirdo adult, and like you gotta accept that, or or you can't date me.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: I've accepted it.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you know about it.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a Swifty.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: You've accepted that.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you're a Swifty.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: We are the worst of the two, but we are separated.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: We are not a combined Swifty Disney adult.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: We compliment each other.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a balance between us.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: And are we selling ourselves as one package now?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe yeah, you date both of us.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, and like for me, like running, like I'm gonna run 50 marathons in 50 states.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like a big part of my part is like training for these races and traveling to these races.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: What about the fact that you do a podcast about execution?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's also a pillar.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have your personality?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do you ever withhold that sometimes from like I only do in like my professional world?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like socially, I don't care.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: I tell everyone, like, oh, I have this podcast, listen, it's great.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: I say don't listen to the first five episodes.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's true, which I I disagree.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a good thing.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: You always say give us a break.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Start from the beginning and know our roots.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: See how far we've come.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, see the progress.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think professionally I never mention it.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: I weirdly, in the job I have now, somehow it came out like on my first interview.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: So now it's the funny thing.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's the funny thing in the office of like, do you know she has an execution?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like but generally I don't like like it's not like on my LinkedIn that I host a podcast about executions.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because this is very like my private life and my passion, but like I'm not gonna tell people I work with, like also when you find out obviously it's a public anyone can listen to this.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, yeah.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um it yeah, I I don't bring it up a lot in my professional life either.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Probably at my older job, more so because they were people who I've worked with for like 10 years and that's more famous.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that we were very close and friends, and they kind of knew, and sometimes it came up, but only like one person I think admitted like he he listens to a lot of it.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: He might be listening now, and he would say, like, we'd be in a meeting, he's like, Oh, you said you were talking about the most interesting, whatever, this one topic.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, the fact that you listen, I am embarrassed.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but and then I then I kind of overthink it, like, oh god, what did I say?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: You always question because I just ramble.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we ramble, right?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't mean to like talk about anybody or make anyone that we know personally feel uncomfortable, but like you always wonder, like, wait, did I say anything?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't supposed to.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Do they say something like maybe they didn't want to share?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like so.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: We don't really talk about others, do we?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: We don't talk shit, do we?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do that.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't think I'd be good at dating.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: I would be you haven't been single since you were.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: I've never been single.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've never been single.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, as a child, as an as a minor.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I started dating my husband shortly after turning 18.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's wild.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I turned 18 in September.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: I met him in November.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're saying this for the pod.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was all very legal.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just kidding.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: No, but in actuality, I met him just a couple months later.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then we started, we were like official by January.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we've just stayed together ever since.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And 17 years later, here we are.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: You would thrive in the dating world.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just, I've I've never been on a date.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I count it with him.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: You and I went on a date.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: We went on a date.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like our first date, we went to brunch.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: At work, we're still together, got to know each other, and here we are.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I definitely bring up my my like passion for history and Anne Boleyn.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I will judge a person if they don't know Anne Boleyn.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: I really it really irks me when people don't know basic history.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: And like, even if you don't know Anne Boleyn specifically and her story, you've heard of King Henry VIII and his wives or like the Boleyn sisters.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like you kind of know a little about it.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and not even just British history, but I think basic history.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you don't know the difference between J.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Edgar Hoover and Herbert Hoover, you're crossed off my list.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Idiots.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Idiots.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: We judge and then we make so many mistakes.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: All you losers who only listen to part two of our season finale, if that makes no sense, now you have to go to part one and listen.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: I again, back when I was single, loved dating.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Love, love, love dating.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not one of those, oh, first dates are always at free dinner?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, because a first date to me is so fun because it's such like an unexplored territory.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: They're terrible.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Even if they're terrible, whatever.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's terrible and you don't really hang out again.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's fine.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, it's just an exploratory process where it's like I tell you about my weird things, you tell me about your weird things, and we see if we're compatible.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, to me, it's zero pressure.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you don't have there's no right answers.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think too many people these days are focused on like what are the red flags and what what are my my icks?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: My icks.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: I hate the word.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: I hate that word.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: What are your icks?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what gives you the ick and blah blah.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's not about a checklist, it's about chemistry.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you're supposed to have some icks.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: My husband has icks.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone has icks.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: I have icks, you have icks.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: My husband, my ick with my husband.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, here we go.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: He um walks around with his socks half off.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: I do that sometimes.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't get it.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because he doesn't have to be.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: When you're not hot or cold.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're just on halfway on his foot, and he looks like Goofy walking around with his floppy sock toes all over the place.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: If that's the worst of it, man.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's my ick.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing fine.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I Robbie does pretty good.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to think of an ick.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't listen, so I can say this.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: He has a marginally dirty clothes pile.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, so he's a like a he's a pile person.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: A green, yellow, red.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: So like he's a pile person, which I fixed because we live together.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you can't just have piles, they have to be like tidy, like put shit away.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like we don't have stuff everywhere.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: We we put things away.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: But he starts to on top of his laundry bin accumulate a mildly dirty pile.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: I do that.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: It means it means it's not green and it's not dirty, so it doesn't go in the laundry.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: But he does on top of his hand.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: I do that.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: You do that?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: I do that.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: You have a mildly dirty pile.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it doesn't build up, but just like a pair of jeans.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, if it's one item.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or like a sweatshirt.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: If it's one item, like you wore a sweatshirt, he has like multiple.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I don't do that.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: So he'll like wear a shirt in the morning and then change by noon, but he didn't work out in it.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: So he's like, oh, it's not dirty and it's not clean.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it goes in my like pile.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And his pile is like half-clean stuff.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: But he goes and he picks through it and he'll wear it again until it's actually like sweaty or dirty and then it seems resourceful.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: But like it's it's just a giant pile of shit.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: At least he has a reason.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: My husband has no reason why he wears his socks halfway.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: He probably does.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: He would have you asked him.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, actually, he would tell me, I don't like the feeling of the sock rubbing against my ankle hair.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: I get that.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have ankle hair.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh yeah, the ankle hair.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, I do that when I'm not, like again, like I'm I'm too cold without socks, but I'm too hot with the full sock, so I do like a half.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I get that.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: I totally get that.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Share us your weird habits or your partner's weird habits, because evidently we are now a dating podcast and relationship advice.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we've never really talked about it.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: In six seasons, we've never really talked about it.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: We've never really talked about it.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of fun to talk about.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, so if you're single and looking for love in Denver, talk to my sister who has zero interest in history.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Get you in touch with her.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, post a little bio video on her.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Just kidding.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: She would kill us.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, she won't.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: She would love this.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: She'd be like, yeah, get me a date.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: A learned man who is interested in history.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's our our preference.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's her preference.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I like it.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what she likes yet.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: She's still figuring out what she likes.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um after that was a weird afternoon How are we gonna transition into what?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, really quick, after this show, we're gonna finish watching her show and see you could see which guy she picked for the show.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's only 10:30 at night.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is great.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: We have until midnight.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, we just keep going.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's do it.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's get started then so I can watch the rest of this video.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all right, so where did we leave off?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so to recap a little bit of our first episode, we were talking about the Pendle Witch Trials that take place in Pendle Hill, like near Lancaster, England.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: And right now we're at a point where we are talking about two rival families that were known for witchcraft in the area.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: There is the Demdike family, who is like the the matriarch of that family, is this woman named Elizabeth, who's around 80 slash Devis, because they have maiden names in there as well.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Demdike slash Devis, the D's.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: The D U D family.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: The D family.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then you have the Chaddock's family.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the Chaddock's family is uh that that matriarch is Anne Chaddox.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you have these two rival, essentially witch families, and the only reason there's even a spotlight on them is because James First is on the throne.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: He's written his whole manifesto called Demonology, talking about witch hunting and how you should seek out people that are witches or harming others through witchcraft.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so, because of this, there's this very ambitious magistrate, and his name is Roger Noel.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's in Pendle Hill, he knows about these two families.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: He's now interrogated both families and trying to figure out who the witches are and who he needs to execute because of witchcraft.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And also they're friends.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're family members, but in total, they arrested 12 people in total.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we left off our last episode with 12 people in prison in Lancaster jail, and now we're waiting to see what their fate is because the trial is next.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so as we discussed in part one, sadly, the matriarch of the of the Devis slash Demdike family, she passed away while in prison.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: She was elderly, she was in her 80s, so now we're down to 11.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Also, side note, one person technically wasn't a resident of Pendle.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: She was closer to Yorkshire, so she had her own separate trial, which we don't really need to get into, but just no one personally.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: She was like extradited.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: She was like sent away, and her name was.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: She was found guilty though.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: She was.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she was.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Janet Preston.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Good job.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: And who knows if we'll ever do an episode on those?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe she's her own thing.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but they did try the pendle witches in groups.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: They also there was another group of witches that they kind of buddied up with them.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like they really took advantage of their court sessions.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: But, anyways, the trials took over only a two-day period.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: They did them in small groups.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was on between August 18th to August 19th, 1612.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: And who was the prosecutor?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: None other than our same magistrate slash justice of the peace, Roger Noel.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: So he's now the whole thing has got his hands in it.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: He's literally a witch hunter.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: He is a witch hunter, and he's got beef with some of these people, which you really shouldn't be going in so biased, but they didn't have these types of rules or I don't know, whatever you want to call it.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um speaking of rules, yes, King James I took a lot of liberties when it came down to witchcraft trials.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, the normal rules of court were thrown out the window because he felt it was so important and it was so desperate to actually find out if they were a witch or not.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um that he basically just was like, no rules apply in these courts.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: For example, in a typical court setting, they wouldn't allow a child to be a witness.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um historically they I it's kind of a we were watching one interesting take on this where it is an interesting paradox between having a child witness.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: On one hand, they could be seen as unreliable, they make up stories, they fantasize, you they blur reality versus they just don't know enough imagination.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they also don't quite know what they're saying.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Their memory may not be as good.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so how reliable are they?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: On the other hand, children are overly honest sometimes.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: They will straight up tell you how it is without understanding the consequences, right?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: So they can openly talk and say, Well, this is what happened, not saying it being like, Oh, I shouldn't say that because I'm gonna get someone in trouble.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're very pure of heart.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: So they don't understand the consequences and political dynamics going on.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: So they're just like, Well, this is what happened.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, take it, take it or leave it.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that part is important.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: So for this trial, the primary witness was not just a child, but she was the younger daughter of Elizabeth Devis.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Who's the the mom of the situation?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Mom of Allison Devis and James Devis.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so Elizabeth, Allison, and James, mother, daughter, brother, are all on trial right now for witchcraft.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Their youngest sister, who's nine years old, her name is Janet.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Not Janet, Janet with an Eve.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Not Jennifer, not Janet.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Her name is Janet.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Janet.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: She's nine years old and she's the primary witness.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what's alarming.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so she's the primary witness, and again, because of the James First rule, she's allowed to have this like really big, you know, stand-up in court where she's allowed to say what's going on.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, because she's a child, the first thing they ask her really is like, okay, who was at this meeting?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about at the end of our first episode this big meeting that happened at Malkin Tower, which is slash party.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Slash party, and we also call it Shit Tower, because that's what the town was calling it, like kind of in a in a mocking nature, like, oh shit tower.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: So who was who was present at this shit tower meeting?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say it so formal.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um where do you live?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: A shit tower.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: I live in Chitawa.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Shit.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Chitawa, have you heard of it?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and of course, she immediately gives evidence against her mother, her brother, and her sister.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And apparently they like kind of did this whole uh I guess setup where they had random people in a line, and it was people that were accused and just random people.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: So she could go in and point out they were at the party.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like in the original lineup, they were pulling random prisoners who were also at Lancaster Jail for other reasons unrelated to witchcraft.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like smart, yeah, pretty smart of them to do 1612.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so she was just picking up people kind of by the hand, like you were there, and you were there, and I think I saw you.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Can you imagine the fear of her this little girl walking down the aisle and you're like, bitch, do not point at me.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: You're probably head down or trying to like present yourself in a different way.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: But also, if she got it wrong, and if it was anybody who actually wasn't there, like, hold on, no, no, no, you made me sit here.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Don't pull me into this garbage.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Or what if you were only there to like have a tiny bit of sheep?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I wasn't there for the mutton for two seconds, please.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: I showed up for just a piece of sheep.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then I wanted to leave.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so so she goes through, she identifies who's there with the lineup, and after the lineup and who she picked out, they were also giving her names of people.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you recognize this name?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Was this person there?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And a clever thing that they did to make sure she wasn't just lying and saying yes to everybody is they gave her false names.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, was Jane Peterson there?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: A name they just made up.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, No, I don't know who that is.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: So she was being extremely honest, and they deciphered that through her lineup picking and through the names they gave her, and they deemed her as a fit witness because they're like, Well, clearly this little girl's just telling a pure, unfiltered truth.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: The number one credible witness here is the daughter, and she even stood up on a table.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, once they decided she was a credible witness, they put her, stood, stood her up on a table and were like, okay, speak.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, tell us what you know.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: So her mother, Elizabeth, is pissed, right?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine your nine-year-old daughters calling you out on witchcraft, on felonies, on something that you're gonna die over.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: So while in the courtroom, while Jenet is going on and making making her accusations, Elizabeth starts yelling at her daughter.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, imagine the the fear inside of her, and then her mother, her motherness is coming out, being like, Janet Devis, you do not talk about others this way.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: I am your mother, you do not slander, and she's hysterical and just like starts reprimanding her daughter in front of everybody, calling her a liar, and why would you do this?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you need to shut up and go sit down and be quiet.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And they take Elizabeth out of the room.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: They decide Janet's not gonna be comfortable speaking openly.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I I read two versions.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: I one was they forced her out.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Another was Janet was like, I'm not gonna speak until you get my mom out of the room here because I can't, right?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: I need to be honest with you.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Which is such an eloquent thought.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: It I don't know if I believe that.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I believe that because I mean, what nine-year-old is like, excuse me, I'm not going to speak until my mother's removed from the room.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: That just seems like a very sophisticated thought for a small child.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know if I believe that either.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then at that point, yeah, she stands up on the table and is like, listen here.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is what happened.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And she even like again, she does say straight out, she's like, Yes, my mother.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is a witch.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: She said her mother's been a witch for like three or four years, so she gave like a time frame to it.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: And she said that her mother speaks to her familiar.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And a familiar in like witchcraft terms is usually like an animal or a pet or something you have near you that you trust and you speak to, and it carries out your actions that you want.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, I mean, to bring the example back to like Disney, like Maleficent has her crow.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like witches.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: What's the word we learned in the last episode?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Maleficium.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Maleficium.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Maleficium.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like like witches have toads, they have black cats.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: They have I mean hogwarts.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're allowed to have an owl witch uh owl witch, an owl, a cat, or a toad.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: An owl, a cat, or a toad.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Familiar.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: They don't call it a familiar, but that's basically what it is.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: The sentiment is that you have some sort of creature with you who I have a creature.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: You do.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: I have a creature.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: We all have we have our little dogs.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: You're wonderful.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um he carries out my bidding.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um so so Janet gets up on the table, says, My mom's a witch, and yes, she has this black dog.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Her familiar is a black or brown dog, which we talked about before.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um excuse me.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And she said the dog's name is Ball.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Which I'm like, okay, Ball, really.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's a name a nine-year-old would come up with for a dog, in my opinion.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh, bone, uh ball, dogs play with balls, fluffy, you know, like that's such a basic dog name, ball.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like just because of the name, I'm like, really?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Did you just make that up?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but anyway, she said her mom has this black or brown dog, and she says the dog also speaks to her brother James.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: So now she's incriminating both her mother and James, saying, Yeah, they have a familiar.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's a dog.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Here's his name.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: He comes and goes and he does whatever they say.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: So he's she's basically admitting they're both witches and they have a familiar who carries out their bidding.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this this uh the dog, or whatever you want to call it, is probably like some sort of demon or devil form.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: And this dog is telling them how to murder people of their neighbors, their enemies, their people that had ever anything against them.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: And again, this family was a little rough around the edges, so they had disputes and arguments with all kinds of people.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: So evidently, this dog was helping them murder.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you might be wondering too, why would a young nine-year-old girl, what in the world did her family do to her to make her hate her mother and her brother and everyone and all of her friends and neighbors who are on trial?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and this is an important piece, is Janet was the only child of the Devis family who was a bastard.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they don't know who her father was.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Which is scandalous.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think she knew that.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like she knew she was different from her family.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, she's the youngest, so she's essentially the like quote unquote runt of her family.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she probably gets the least amount of respect, it's probably overlooked in a lot of ways.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And if she is in fact a bastard, she's probably just given a little less in the family.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, or treated in a certain way.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or, um, I mean, well, actually, no, the father wouldn't he he died in 1601, so he wouldn't have been alive for her.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: But if assuming then that meant Elizabeth Device was a widow at the time that she gave birth to Janet, so they don't know who the father is.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like she had a loved one at some point.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: But maybe her mom despised her because it was an unplanned pregnancy.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows how that pregnancy happened, whether it was like consensual or not, maybe that's part of it.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm just I'm throwing things out there.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: This little girl was not a pleasant girl.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say she's the devil's child.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: But just hear me out.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: What if the mother hated her so much and like conditioned the rest of her family and her brothers and her siblings to hate her too because she never wanted her, right?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: That then she turned on her family and was like, Yep, they're witches.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, do what you want.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: That could be.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people are surprised when like small children that age feel a certain way.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, nine is young and you are a child, but you're not four.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: You you've formed things, you've learned things, you you have certain traumas and certain things in your past and things that you you hate about your family.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like you you've experienced hate, you've experienced feeling different, you've experienced like these big emotions for a small child, and that can come out in a lot of ways.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact that she says, I've known her to be a witch for the past three to four years.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, four years, she would have been five.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's really when memories are starting to form, and where she could have become very resentful.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's just say hypothetically that her mom beat her or anything like that.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of around the age when you're like, I don't like my mother.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm afraid of my mother, I hate her, whatever.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm having like this Jane Eyre feeling in my brain because uh you know how um they also conditioned like the the boy of the family was so mean to her, remember, and how he like tortured her and put Jane Eyre in the closet because they hated her, so he learned to hate her too.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe James was a total jerk to her.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Could have been she's the youngest daughter, like yeah, bastard daughter.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: They could have done a lot of things.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: So so here's where we're at with as people are kind of coming up and getting tried.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um her older sister Allison, we don't even need to like she this girl, Alison, who started the whole thing, she's already admitted all of her guilt.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And she is sticking by this.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, Yeah, she is actually like confessing crying.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: This all started, remember, because she supposedly cursed John Law, one of the peddlers in the neighboring villages.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: And she immediately was like, I'm a witch and I killed him, but he didn't die.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he had a stroke, they didn't know that.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: John Law was well enough to be in the courtroom, to be in the courthouse.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so he gave his testimony.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Allison was like, Yep, that's what happened.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then she was actually asking for forgiveness and apologizing to him, which is so sad because she's admitting everything.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: She knows she's gonna die over it, but she's like, maybe I am that evil of a person.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I deserve this, and I'm I'm sorry, but I'll take my fate.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you're also implicating your family a bit because if you come forward and say, Yes, I'm a witch, yes, I cursed him, I did this, I caused his, you know, illness, it's like that immediately looks bad on your brother, yeah, who's your who your younger sister is accused, yeah, and and your mother, who your younger sister also accused.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you being that that person that's like not denying it and just accepting everything makes everyone in that family look bad and it makes Jenet's little testimony look really real.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Very solid.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And another person who broke down in the courtroom as well was none other none other than Ann uh Chaddock's.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: So matriarch of the opposing family, the grandmother.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: She was accused um of the murder of someone called Robert Nutter.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: No relation, I don't think, to Alice Nutter.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she was the wealthy, the wealthy one.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Catholic.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the wealthy Catholic lady who became really like the face in the name of the Pendle Witch trials.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Which had very little to do with it, but sure.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if there's any relation there, but no, nothing we read or had a connection.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um anyway, but um Anne uh Chaddocks was accused of the murder of Robert Nutter.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there's this testimony that happens by this person named James Robinson who said he lived with the Chadwicks family 20 years earlier.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: So once he comes out and talks about his confession, and the matriarch breaks down.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: So she's the second person to start saying, Okay, yes, I did it, like I'm guilty, I'm a witch.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: I murdered, I did all these things, I did these murders.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it was so hard to decipher what was real and not because you have child testimonies, you have people that have been imprisoned for months, yeah, and who knows what torture they've been under when they were imprisoned, and maybe they were kind of coached or told, like, okay, these are the things you're gonna say.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're at a point where they just are like trying to get some sort of either sympathy or reduce, or they just they're over it.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or they're done, yeah.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: They are they've already accepted their fate and they're like, I don't want to drag this out more.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's gonna end up with me on the noose regardless.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: So make sure the other thing that's interesting about all of these these trials, we in part one we said how Elizabeth I put it put in the queen.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, just so we're clear.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I'm on a first name basis with her.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Queen Elizabeth the I put in the witchcraft act of 1562, right?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Which made it the the punishment for not just being a witch, but being a witch and causing harm was death.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it could just be imprisonment if they confess to being a witch, but they don't really do anything bad with it.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: They just are out, they just do fun things.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're herbal harmless, yeah.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Remedy per people.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's that word again that I can never say, the malefic maleficium.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Maleficium.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Maleficium, which means causing harm by witchcraft.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: That is what could get them the death penalty.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't enough that they could just say that they were witches.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Each one of these people were also accused of murdering someone.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Or like Aliz and how she cursed him so that he became deathly, like very ill with a stroke.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so, anyways, yeah, so Anne Anne Chaddock, she was found guilty of murdering Robert Nutter through witchcraft.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, going back to Elizabeth Devis, the mom, the one who had her little mom moment and told her her daughter to stop talking.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um she was charged with murdering three people: James Robinson, John Robinson, and a Henry Mitten.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then of course, something that we've heard of before is witches are supposed to have deformities.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: And Elizabeth, they said that her left eye like sat lower than her right eye, and apparently each looked in different directions.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Which don't laugh, Megan.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's not funny.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm laughing because I'm literally in my mind envisioning um from the movie scene, you know, the chameleon secretary.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she goes, Oh, Mr.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: Mooney, and her eyes are going and all that.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: She's my favorite character.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: She's got a little visor.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, uh so they they called Elizabeth the Devis.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: One of her nicknames around town was Squinting Lizzie.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Squinting Lizzie.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: How sad.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: So in unfortunately in this day and age, I know, I know.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: But unfortunately, in this day and age, if you had some sort of physical deformity like that, that alone was like proof that you're a witch because you're unnaturally made.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's like all this bullshit.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's what they again.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about a tiny village in England.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: In the 1600s.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: In the 1600s, where King's James King James is on the throne.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, people are gonna find anything wrong with anybody.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: So unfortunately, you know, this woman had this like slight deformity, and that was just another reason why she's a witch.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um her son James was also charged with participating in these murders.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um so and and he was also one that obviously, like the others, he was saying he's not guilty, was pleading not guilty, but they read off a confession that he gave under torture, probably under torture, prior to the trial starting.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: So then he was like, crap, I did say that.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what's tricky about this time frame is that if you ask anyone for forgiveness, if you say, Oh my gosh, I'm sorry, or like any kind of admission of guilt or wrongdoing, there it's used against you later.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: So no matter what you do or how good of a heart you think you have, as soon as you admit anything that you did was on you, it's like aha, like we got you, you're a witch, you're thrown in jail, and we're gonna use this confession later to sentence you to death.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like you you can't win either way.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: You can't deny, deny, deny, because then it just looks like okay, like they're going down this path of denial.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if you admit anything at all, it's like guilty.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's no there's no right or wrong.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and because they're rival families, both families are just gonna constantly be throwing each other under the bus.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much bad blood and bad history that the slightest of thing is gonna be brought up.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, well, again, the one time they stole my sheep, and the one time you know they ripped me off for an herbal remedy.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: The milk in the beer turning sour was a thing.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: They were accusing um Alice.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um what's her name?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Chaddox.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, I get all name.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: They have weird names, so it's it's hard to keep them straight.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: And Chaddock's the matriarch?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, the matriarch.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: They said that whenever she touched milk or she touched beer, it turned sour.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like now they're just making things up.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: You probably have a cow with a yeast infection.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how that works, an utter infection, but sure.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um sounds right.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Out of so so they end up trying 11 people, right?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so nine in the Pendle witch trials were actually accused of being guilty because we started with 12, remember?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we had one die in prison, one be sent to a different county.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Still found guilty, but yes.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Still found guilty, yes.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Separate county.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then one was found innocent.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: Which is weird.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: One woman was found innocent.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Her name was um Alice Gray.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, no reason.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like we couldn't find.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: She truly was just at the wrong place at the wrong time and at the party, perhaps, just to get a piece of mutton, but she maybe she was the one that stepped in for a piece of mutton and was like, all right, I'm out.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Guys, I don't know what you're doing here, but I don't want to be a part of this.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe young Janet was like, Oh yeah, she came in and then she had a drink and then she left.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: I really don't want to be a part of this narrative, and then she walks away.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to be excluded from this narrative.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: So good for Alice and Gray.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the rest of the nine in Pendle Hill were um accused and found guilty, and there was um an official new scaffold that was erected on Gallows Hill, which they think was the same as Pendles Hill.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're not 100% sure where the actual scaffold and location was because there's nothing to this day that marks it.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they were being tried in Lancaster, though, which is not Pendle.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're right.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think we really went over this, but when they were arrested, they made them walk 40 miles to get to Lancaster, which is separate from Pendle.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: So were they hanged in Lancaster?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: They had to have been.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: So this is actually an interesting point.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because this was never really discussed.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: Lancaster is on the coast.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: And Pendle is not.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: Pendle's 40 miles in inland, if I'm correct with my geography.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: And the gallows that they erected was on this beautiful hill that was overlooking this beautiful scenery of the sea.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of this interesting thought that um a lot of them have probably never seen the ocean before.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like if they're so far inland by 40 miles.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Who's gonna randomly walk 40 miles besides you?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: When Megan told me that, she's like, No one, none of them have seen the ocean.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, Who would walk 40 miles?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Well, I would.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's only two marathons.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, it's only two marathons to run there.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: Of course I'd go there.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like part of the punishment, right, is that they had to walk 40 miles to get to jail.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: So their place of death could potentially be one of the most beautiful places that they've ever seen.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that must have been such a weird mixture of feelings to be in awe to see the ocean for the first time, but then be like, oh wait, focus, I'm prepared to die.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: And how else would you have seen the ocean?
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you don't have photos.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have photos.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Unless someone painted it, like you know, you see a painting of it.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe a painting, but like you had the printing press started in like the 14th century.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: But you hear stories, you hear what a prize you you know what a lake or river looks like, so I guess you can imagine it on a bigger scale.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: But the fact is you've never seen the sea.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: The thing is, though, is there's people today in this country and around the world who've also never seen it, like we to us is such a normal thing, but there are people who live in the Midwest and they've never left their state.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's so true.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: I remember meeting somebody at my grandparents' house in high school, and he bragged about the fact he was an old man.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he bragged about the fact that he had never been outside of Colorado.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, but he was like, he was so proud of it.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, never left Colorado, like never had to.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, whoa.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's like an episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, like one of the early episodes when Charlie's never left Philadelphia.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then he's like, never had a pear either.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Never had a pear.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: But it's you're you're shocked sometimes when you realize.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's probably people listening, and they're like, that's me.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's me.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's good because that means you have so much opportunity ahead of you.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: So like things to look forward to.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: So if you you are that person and you're listening who has never left your area or your state or your province or your country, like, you know, there's so much out there.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, you can go online all you want and look at photos and look at videos, and it's so different when you get there.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's like like even us, and we talk about that.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like seeing the Tower of London, seeing these places that you think are so like you think you know them, like the back of your hand, because you've seen them so much online.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: But once you go, you realize it's totally different than you think.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's a different experience.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just don't make that experience um as you're walking up to the gallows, which is what happened with this group of people.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: So they're carried out on a cart.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: They are, and they are strung up on these pretty brand new gallows on this new gallow hill overlooking the ocean.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: And at first, the crowd, there's a pretty big crowd there because this has been the talk of the town.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: This is a huge deal.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually a a big number of people, it doesn't seem like it, but in in England, there were 500 people who were um executed for being witches.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: This is two percent of them, right?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess it's not actually that many.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's not huge.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: But Lancaster is a bigger city than the Pendle Hill Hill area, so you have everyone from Lancaster there.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe people from Pendle Hill made the trek up.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of far to do, but maybe you would.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um maybe to see your loved ones and support them.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: And they they decided that everyone was to be hanged, but it wasn't a hanging via snapping of the neck.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because we've talked about this before, but hanging can either be done in two ways.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: One, you measure the like length of the rope and you determine the height and weight of the person to know how much it's gonna take like of rope to snap their neck, or you just decide we don't really care, they're just gonna strangle.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: This was a strangulation.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't a it's just gonna be quick, like you know, drop of the noose type of thing.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was we don't really care.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's just gonna, you're gonna fall off the block, you're gonna dangle, and however long it takes you to die, that's how long it takes you to die.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, oh, and the date, we didn't talk about the date, but the official date of death, August 20th, 1612.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: So then the day after the trials were the 18th and the 19th by the 20th.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was quick.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: They were on the hill, they were at the gallows.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Which, because they had been in prison since April, might have been kind of a welcome, I guess, escape.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: God, they must have smelled so bad.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: They probably had a really bad smell.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it sucks too because I think when you go to trial, there's still hope.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe while you're in prison, there's still that off.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: There was still hope of like maybe this isn't my life and this isn't my death.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe this is like just me having a bad patch and then I'm gonna go exist in society again.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is just a rough time, this is just a rough time in my life.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: And to realize at the end of the trial, not only did you lose and you were found guilty, but now you die the next day.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: Next day.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not a quick death.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: But okay, let's go back to Alice Gray for a sec.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we know very little about Alice Gray.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: How do people take that if you've been tried in prison for months and then tried as a witch?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Albeit you got off innocent, but like your life isn't normal after that.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's her life is still completely destroyed.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: She's now has a reputation.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: People probably don't believe it and they still think she's a witch.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like a scarlet letter situation.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: So she probably didn't have it so great either afterwards.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I doubt it because of this crop, um, Alice Nutter was the only one who was like of means.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: She was like noble and you know was fairly wealthy compared to the other people.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we assume Alice Gray was impoverished.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: So like maybe she just went on to lead lead kind of a simple simple, kind of unfortunately sad life.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, who knows?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe she went and married a count in Italy and she became fabulously wealthy and changed.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: I always like to imagine a Count of Monte Cristo situation.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: Where he gets his like where he finds the treasure and he becomes a count and he avenges all of his wrongs.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm getting.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: Alice Gray went on to become a fabulous lady.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: She is Monte Cristo.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: She's actually the Countess of Monte Cristo.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Countess.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so back to the execution, a stranulation, it's taking up to twenty minutes.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: At first the crowd was jeering, they were very riled up and they were hollering and I'm sure throwing things or whatever.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: But once they started getting strung up, they said the crowd just went silent.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just very eerie, very morbid, very quiet.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then it took about 20 minutes for them to pass.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then those who were their family members or loved ones, uh, this is another example where they would go up and pull on their legs to try to make it end faster.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: Quicker.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's tough.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh hard one.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: And throughout all of this, throughout the imprisonment, the trial, the execution, there's one person, he's a clerk in the court, and his name is Thomas Potts.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so he wrote a full report.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like he was writing notes every day talking about what happened.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of this, he writes this like publication that's called The Wonderful Discovery of Witches in the County of Lancaster.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: The wonderful world of Disney.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm like the sick of it.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: The wonderful discoveries.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a weird word to use for that.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't really a transcript of the trial.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not that it was fictional.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: He wrote it more in like reflective, a reflective tense.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: So he did he wrote notes during, but he didn't write all of this until it was after.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it was more of like a memoir versus a like a script, like a line by line, what was going on.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where we're getting where historians have gathered most of the information about what happened in the trial and how we know all these little details is through this lovely publication of a book.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and again, James I is on this huge witch hunt like pandemic happening.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: And people are really wanting to get in favor with the king.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: So this is kind of like a little funny.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I thought this was an interesting fact, like a fun fact.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: So Thomas Potts, when he published this book about the trials, he dedicated the book to the man who arrested Guy Fawkes.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like what a statement.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: To be like, let's really honor the people who matter in this world is the people who save our one and only King James the F.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: James I.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, it's like a big like, thank you for saving Protestantism and thank you for saving James the First.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I think clearly there's this anti-Catholic, anti-witch like leaning, and it's very much just I want to suck up to the king toilet book.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about Janet.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: Little little nine-year-old Janet if you're called out this little bitch who called out everyone.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you're wondering what happened to that demon bastard child, Jennet.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: She's an orphan now.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: She made herself an orphan.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: Orphan.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then sweet justice, sweet karma arrives.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: What happens to Janet?
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: So Jennet herself, when she's probably in her late 20s, early 30s, all of a sudden finds herself in a witch trial.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: She is now accused of witchcraft.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: And who is her chief witness?
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: A 10-year-old boy.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: A 10-year-old boy, you bitch.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: Karma.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: And they don't know for sure it was her, but her name is yeah, it's Janet.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: So they have a ledger of this one trial of the names of the women who were being convicted of being a witch, and this 10-year-old boy was accusing them.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, on the on the list, it's 1636.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: So her age and the year would have matched up.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: The same area.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: And her name is Jenet Devis on the ledger.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it had to have been her.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: There's no that's not a coincidence.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: In the same area with this tiny town.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: And she was executed and found guilty of being a witch.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to talk about karma, karma is real.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it didn't take that long.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: She wasn't 80 years old.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't live a very long time.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: How old is that?
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: She was only 1636 minus 1612.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, we I think I yeah, I did the math in which it was like late 20s, early 30s, depending on because she was nine in 1612.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that means she was born in 1603.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she was 33.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: Dang.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: So a little younger than us, not a long life, you know.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: We lived longer than her.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: She lived longer.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: F you, demon child.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, we don't know what she went through.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: Always, you know, benefit.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Fine.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, at the end of the day, she caused a lot of death, and then her death certainly caught up with her.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: Was um it was a very fitting end, it felt like.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we will say though, like Pendle, the area of Pendle now is famous because of these witch trials.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: So really, if there weren't these trials, there wouldn't be a whole lot of tourism in this town, which I don't want to make that like a good thing.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: But they do really capitalize.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's like Salem.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wearing my Salem.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you're you're literally the exact.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: Salem established 1626.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: 26?
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um so if you go to this town now, like where they are present day, there's literally a beer they brew called the Pendle Witches Brew.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a trail you can take that takes you from Pendle Heritage Center to Lancaster Castle.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, I thought that was 40 miles.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it's like a bus tour.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, good.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like a trail you can.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: You can walk it, I'll get on.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'll run it.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: You get on the fun trip to go.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: Where I run it?
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm just saying to go to Pendle.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: That'd be fun.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, fun seems morbid, but you know, just to soak in the history.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of cute witch shops, you know, all themed after the witches there.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and not to like mitigate it or downplay it, whatever.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's no, it's now.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: Take it for what it is.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need anyone coming at us saying that, you know, disrespectful.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: I get it.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: They were not killing witches, they were killing women and men.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: Some men.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: Some men.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um it it truly was just like a crazy name game hunt of who do you not like?
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it it was terrible.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: But and we do the same thing in Salem in the United States.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yes, we recognize the cruel history.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: All of us learned the crucible in school and how how terrible it was and how much of a quote quote unquote witch hunt it was.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we know that it's not like just and correct and like it shouldn't have happened, and it was yeah, it was a terrible time in human history that we literally just murdered each other because we thought that they did some they did magic and hurt somebody.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's ridiculous.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, it's kind of nice to go and kind of celebrate the history.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I hate to say it, but a lot of these women wouldn't be famous in any other way.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: So in air names lived on.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, even though it's a it's a fucked up way to be re like to die, you are remembered, you know, and and and honored, and people learn about you and your and your trials.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: Literally your trials and tribulations.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um in a weird way, it's kind of nice.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, Alice Nutter is the one who gets this big memorial big statue.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, even though she was just one of the in total, one of ten in total, um, who were executed over this whole thing.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but she was the wealthy one, so people knew her name and she was part of nobility.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a really I think it's cool.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: Elizabeth Black hates it.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: I have to say Elizabeth Black because I might be talking about Elizabeth Black.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're right, we gotta we gotta differentiate all the Elizabeth Black.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: This woman sitting next to me right here does not like the statue.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of like it.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's funny because we were watching a documentary when they first showed the statue, and at the same time we both said what we thought about it, and I was like, that statue is the worst.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: The way we said it, we were like, that statue is awesome.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, the worst.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: And we were like, oh, okay.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, wait, you think it's great?
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, You think it's ugly?
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, it's life size, it's cool.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, it's metal and looks so cheap.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's a statue of Alice Nutter in shackles, walking up the steps.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like she's walking up to the gallows, and you know, she's wearing her her like hood and her eyes are kind of downcast.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's like her dress is made out of like rusted metal, kind of.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's very to me it looks like Miller, it looks like junk art.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: It looks like modern junk art junk art, but I like the whole thing with the shackles and walking up the steps.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like I like the idea.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like she's she's lifelike size, lifelike size.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: Life size.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: Life size.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why I added another word in there.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like the Tyra Banks movie.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: I know, we're just not gonna get into it.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um I would like to see that statue.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: Next trip.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: How about I think our next trip to England or the UK in general should be a Scotland trip.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: But then we go down to like northern England as well.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: And go to Lancaster.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think that would be our next trip.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: That'd be fun.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: 2026.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: Let us know if you want to come.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: Listeners, friends.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: We'll meet you there.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: Are you out there?
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: Fantur.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone?
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: Just kidding.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, anyways, well, that is the Pendle Witch trials.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: Did we forget anything?
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: Did we forget all of our Honestly?
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think we covered all of it.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think we did.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: We um Enough for our two parts.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: This was a good finale, and we've been discussing doing a Pendle Witch one for a while, but we knew it was kind of too much meat to do one episode.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we love that it was broken up into two.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we want to do more witchy things.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um we've got a lot of more witch trials were not just in England.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many more like German witch trials and um yeah.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to cross Europe.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't just in England and it wasn't just in Salem.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it'd be nice at the end of all of our witch trial episodes to kind of tie them together to see which ones influenced what.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, James was a big influence.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think most of the things.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: I want to say James was probably the catalyst.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was the problem.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: It trickled all the way to the colonies, which is America.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, so yeah, I I think it's fascinating to learn how they all connect over time.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but right now we're currently doing, like me and Megan, even though it's gonna be off season soon, we're gonna be working on season seven lineup.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: And who, which executions we're gonna highlight for season seven.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: So any uh recommendations you guys have that we haven't done.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: And we do have uh some recommendations that are still pending.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you're like you dumb woman.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's all it's all in good time.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: We have to spread out.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: We don't, you know, this is gonna keep going until we are old ladies.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: So we gotta spread it all out.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: Until we're the old matron, until Jesus dies of running in our 50th marathon.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: I will not die.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know how young I'm gonna be in my channel.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: I know you're gonna be so healthy.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna start aging backwards.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: You understand?
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, more to come.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna work on some things this summer.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, we have some like special edition stuff.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: I hope.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: I say that.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to overpromise.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see how we feel.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see how we feel.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's off season.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we get kind of lazy during off-season.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: Eh, it's hot here.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's hot.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's already hot.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but this was fun.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: This was great.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: This was great.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go watch the rest of your sister's dating show.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yay, let's see.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: Elizabeth, any final words of season six?
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: Say it now or forever, hold your peace.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, not tonight, Megan.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_05: When I look at my window, many sights to see.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_05: When I look in my window, so many different people to pick.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's strange, so strange.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's very strange to me.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_03: You got to pick up every stitch.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_03: You got to pick up every stitch.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_03: You got to pick up every stitch.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_04: Must be the season of the witch.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_04: Let's be the season of the witch.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_03: When I look over my shoulder, I happens.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think I see?
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_03: Some other cat looking over.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: So strange is very strange to me.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_03: You've got to pick up every stitch.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_03: You've got to pick up every stitch.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_04: Let's be the season of the wave.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_04: Let's speak the season of the wave.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_04: Let's be the season of the wicked space.