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Garage Classics: The Story of Bob Marley: the reggae master who preached peace · GARAGE TO STADIUMS Music History Podcast

• G2S_BOBMARLEY Duration: 53:51 SUMMARY KEYWORDS Bob Marley, Rastafarianism, reggae music, political activism, Jamaican roots, musical evolution, cultural influence, social commentary, One Love, Exodus album, melanoma diagnosis, peace concert, musical legacy, global impact, cultural pride SPEAKERS Dave Anthony, John Masori Dave Anthony 00:01 Hi there. I'm Dave Anthony, and this is the garage to stadiums. Podstarter. On each episode, we tell you the story of how one of our music legends rose from obscurity to fame and play some of the songs that mark that journey. Welcome to garage to stadiums. Today's episode is the story of Bob Marley. Bob Marley was a widely recognizable global figure who transcended the music industry, first by writing songs that commented on the challenged social condition of his fellow citizens, and then through his active political participation and advocacy to better those people's lives. Bob was born in very humble beginnings in Jamaica in 1945 and as you'll hear today, through incredible hard work, he became a global music superstar, synonymous with reggae and the religion of Rastafarianism. But what you'll also hear may surprise you, as his musical career began in a very different musical genre, and his life as Arasta came about in a surprising twist here to discuss the Bob Marley story is John Masourii. John is a highly acclaimed author and music journalist specializing in reggae and dance hall genres for more than 35 years. He's interviewed and written about many of these genres, most influential figures like Bob Marley, Peter Tosh and others. His book entitled Simmer Down, is a definitive text of the emergence of Bob Marley, From his earliest days as a child to his status as a political force of music. John's work has appeared in Music Week, The Guardian Observer and New Musical Express. John joins us today. Welcome to Garage, to Stadiums. John, John Masori 01:41 thank you, Dave. I really appreciate the line of questioning that you take and very professional, and I'm impressed. Well, thank Dave Anthony 01:51 you very much for the kind words. Today we're going to talk about an extraordinary figure. Bob Marley, when did you first start listening to, sort of the Jamaican music. How did you come on to it? John Masori 02:03 I was 11 years old, and I was watching black and white television, a show called Ready city go, and Millie was singing my boy lollipop, and she was my first cry. I came from a part of Nottingham where some of the early Caribbean migrants went to live. And so it was pretty multicultural in Nottingham in the Midlands. And so members of what's called the Windrush generation who came over post war. I knew people of that generation. They were welcoming to me as schoolboy and so on. And I went to Caribbean house parties when I was a schoolboy, where we heard this music. I had no idea what I was listening to, but I sure as hell liked it. So I was born at the right time. Dave, essentially. Let's go Dave Anthony 03:11 back in time and establish the life of Bob Marley and get a sense for where he's from his family life, because I think that infuses the picture of the man that we ultimately see. Yes, John Masori 03:24 he was born on February the sixth, 1945 His mother, sedella Malcolm, was just 18 when she gave birth to him in a hamlet called Nine miles in the parish of sintan in Jamaica. And she was a country girl, but the baby's father, Norval Marley, was 64 years old when she gave birth to Robert Nesta. He was Jamaican, white Jamaican, but he was born to a British father and a Jamaican mother. He served in the West Indies regiment and was discharged as a private he'd been to Nigeria, South Africa, the UK, Cuba. So he was a worldly individual, but probably a bit of a rogue. He he'd been supervising the clearance of land in st towns ready for building housing for war veterans. But he wasn't wealthy, and he allegedly died in poverty, Dave Anthony 04:42 but his father, Norville, returns to his life at some point and leaves an impact John Masori 04:46 about 10 years after Bob Marley was born, and he had very little to do with his son until Bob was five years old, and then Norval. Contacted Sedella and said that he would like to help with the boy's education and to put him on a bus to Kingston, where his father would meet him and proceed to his schooling. And apparently what happened was that he did meet the child off the bus, but he put him in the care of an elderly spinster in in quite a rough part of Kingston called Miss Gray, and left him there. So the five year old was pretty much left to roam the streets in in one of the most deprived areas of central Kingston, and we can only imagine what that could have been like, especially as Bob was mixed race. You know, the thing about racism is that it's universal. You know, every every nationality has its racists, and Jamaica is no exception. So he would have got some harsh treatment on the streets even as an infant because of his very light skin color. And so Dave Anthony 06:14 how did this resolve with Bob at age five, in the hands of this spinster and roaming the rough streets as a mixed race child. It John Masori 06:23 wasn't until nearly two years later that his mother heard from a friend that she'd seen Bob or Nestor, as he was called, roaming the streets in Kingston. And so his mother got on a bus and went to Kingston and found him and took him back to nine mile. Dave Anthony 06:47 Not long after this, fate intervenes and Bob Marley meets a boy who will ultimately grow up to become an instrumental member of his band, a certain bunny Livingston who would ultimately change his name to bunny whaler and become a contributing writer and performer for the whalers. It John Masori 07:06 was when he was probably around 11 that a man called Teddy is Livingston, whose nickname was toddy, moved to nine mile with his nine year old son Neville, who was nicknamed was bunny, and he and Bob became firm friends, and Bunny would later become bunny. Way Dave Anthony 07:32 were they step brothers? Well, eventually his John Masori 07:35 father and Bob's mother moved to Trenchtown. So to Dave Anthony 07:43 recap, we've got Bob born in Nine Mile which is, what, two and a half hours from Kingston. And it's up in the hills the countryside, as you're saying. And they end up moving and settling in Trenchtown, which is a rather poor area of Kingston, is it not? It John Masori 08:00 was a decent area at that time. And we're talking late 50s. Trenchtown wasn't the the ghetto that it would become in well, certainly within 10 years, if not sooner. Dave Anthony 08:14 So this is now in the late 50s. I guess we're talking about describe the music scene in Jamaica in the 50s and early 60s. The other force that's happening along with music is the pre independence feelings, where Jamaica is wanting to assert its independence from, obviously, the British crown. John Masori 08:35 The music that Bob and Bunny would be listening to mainly came from America because there were stations in the southern states that could be picked up on Jamaican radio. Jamaica only had one real radio station, which was a BBC cable service called Rediffusion. They played mainly British pop music and very little, if any, local music. It was. It was very limited, so Dave Anthony 09:06 a very colonial approach. It sounds like absolutely because John Masori 09:10 it was still colonial before 1962 and some people would argue for long after that. Yeah. So the main influence was coming from America, and it was a time of post rock and roll, American rhythm and blues. So you'd have people like Fats Domino, Elvis Presley, you know, Roscoe, Gordon, Louie Jordan, T bone Walker, these kind of people blues and early soul mixed in with some early country and gospel, all influences that would become absorbed by reggae music, eventually, music in Jamaica at that time, what remnants or what stirrings of a local. Music. Music Industry was there was mainly dealing with mento, which was almost like a form of Jamaican folk music, a bit similar to the Calypso coming from Trinidad. And I think, as you mentioned independence, there must have been a feeling of real excitement in the air. You know, that Jamaica was, at last, coming into its own. They were taking back control. They were building new airports, and new buildings were going up, and it was this sense of opportunity in the air, and so that would have been very inspiring to musicians and young singers. Dave Anthony 10:54 I guess. What occurs is there's kind of an evolution in the sound from the R and B and the fats, dominoes, etc, that they were kind of importing to, sort of the SKA sound like. How did that evolution happen? John Masori 11:07 Some people have told me, Well, they tried to play rhythm in blues, but it just came out Jamaican. And so whether it was deliberate or not, we don't know, but they came up with a variation called Star that that spread like wildfire, fire, but it was a dance. You know, before it was a genre, it was a dance. Young people went to these sound systems to dance, and every new dance that came along would find a ready audience, and scars certainly did that. The first music from Jamaica to have an international in input, impact, simmer down. It was certainly their debut hit. And it came out, you know, in 1964 the summer of 1964 apparently it sold very well and put the whalers on the map. By the time that first album came out, the music had changed. It was no longer scar by that stage. It was rock steady. And so the music on it didn't really reflect where the where the Wailers were musically. Dave Anthony 12:33 How would you describe rock steady as a format to the audience? Was that? Would that be dandy Livingston, Rudy, a message to you, Rudy, 12:45 a message to you, Rudy, John Masori 12:49 that's rock steady. The Beat slowed down because, you know, Scar was very up tempo. People got fed up of it, I think, after a couple of years, and there was such a profusion of scar releases as well that I'm sure to a lot of the audience, it was they tired of it. I Dave Anthony 13:08 think a lot of us modern audiences think of reggae as this eternal thing in Jamaica. But really, what you've painted the picture of is the almost the archeology of it all, which starts with the R and B from the States. It starts with the soul music from the states, the important records that that that were effectively played on the radio stations, that were very colonial in their views. And then, of course, it adapts and adopts to scov and rock steady, ultimately. So we're not even at the reggae kind of formation point yet, and we're talking about Bob Marley. So it's an interesting, I think, education for our audience to hear that. Let's flip back to Bob the person. And in 1965 66 a couple things happen. Bob marries Rita, his wife and ultimately moves to the US. Rita would ultimately become part of Bob's band as a backup singer. John Masori 14:08 They got married in February 1966 just before he went to visit his mother, because Bob's mother had moved to Delaware, to Wilmington, Dave Anthony 14:24 and so he ended up going, I guess, living with his mother and her new family, and then working in factories in the US. John Masori 14:34 Indeed, yes, he did to raise some money, because the objective was to start his own record label. He went off in February 1966 Dave Anthony 14:45 next we will dive with John into the beginnings of Bob Marley's transformation to Rastafarianism. But first some background on the Rastafari religion and how it came to Jamaica. To do so, we have to go back to the 19. 90s. Marcus Garvey was a Jamaican who advocated for blacks during that decade. His view, John was that Jamaicans were former slaves who'd had British and colonial traditions placed on them in terms of culture, religion and politics, and they deserved to have their own beliefs and structures that John Masori 15:19 we can only imagine how significant rest of our I would have been for the descendants of people who had endured slavery and who had lived under colonial rule for so very long, their descendants had been stripped of everything that really makes a human being, their their names, their families, their land, their history, their beliefs, their their culture, their futures. They were literally stripped of everything and they were given a white Christian faith, which didn't sit well with the young rebels of the whalers era. Dave Anthony 16:15 And so way back in the 1920s as we mentioned, Garvey urged black Jamaicans to educate themselves and practice self reliance. He also said that blacks should look eastward for a black king, since the Western world had polluted the minds of slaves and stolen their African traditions, this led to a small minority of Jamaican blacks looking to Ethiopia for hope of a black king, since Ethiopia had never been colonized by any of the Western European powers. In 1930 Emperor Hale Selassie was crowned in Ethiopia and for impoverished and social disenfranchised Afro Jamaicans. This was a sign that the black king that Marcus Garvey had prophesized, had been fulfilled. This small group of Afro Jamaicans started the Rastafari religion in the 1930s the name Rastafari actually came from the Ethiopian Emperor's original name and title, which was three names, Ras tafari, makkanen, John Masori 17:17 yeah, he could trace his lineage back to King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba. It was that significance, and so Rastafari filled a lot of that vacuum it it provided them with pride and a sense of purpose, a history, a way of life. Dave Anthony 17:45 But from 1930 in colonial Jamaica, Rastafarians were outcasts living in the hills, in remote areas and smoking ganja, Jamaican slang for marijuana. Ganja was a sacred sacrament to the Rastafarians. However, a turning point for the small minority of Rastafarians came in the form of a state visit from the Ethiopian Emperor Hale Selassie in 1966 to Jamaica while Bob was still in the US, John Masori 18:14 the re election was happening in Jamaica with Rita bunny and Peter, because they witnessed Emperor Haile Celeste visit, and it had a profound influence on them. In Bob's absence, Dave Anthony 18:31 Bob returns to Jamaica. He returned John Masori 18:35 to Jamaica, and Peter and Rita and Bunny were Fuller of Celeste visit, and they began going to Rasta gatherings in Trenchtown. Dave Anthony 18:49 So this would have been in the 6768 sort of time period that they were in. Yes, John Masori 18:55 that's absolutely correct. And what's Dave Anthony 18:58 interesting is, obviously the appetite for Bob and Peter and Bunny and Rita to really soak up this, this knowledge really starts to infuse the direction of where, well, certainly Bob heads relative to political activism, knowledge, insight, spirituality. It's really an incredible sort of evolution. John Masori 19:23 They had a big hit with Lee Perry, with Duffy conqueror in 1970 they also got together with Perry's backing band, the upsetters, with the Barrett brothers, the bass player, Aston family man, Barrett and his brother Colton on the drums, the combination of the whalers vocal arrangements and the Barrett brothers rhythm section in. Really gelled. They actually changed the face of reggae music because they came up with that very sticky one drop sound, which became a definitive part of reggae music internationally after that. Dave Anthony 20:20 Here is an example of the one drop method that John is referencing next. John will tell us about a key turning point in Bob Marley and the whalers ascension to fame. They were signed by Island Records, an international record label headed up by a white Jamaican named Chris Blackwell. Blackwell had his own roots in globally distributing early Jamaican recordings in ska and rock steady in the 1960s and under his label island the whalers began the journey to stardom. So Chris Blackwell steps in John and then ultimately finances the first Marley in the whalers album, yes, that's John Masori 21:02 right, that was catch a fire. So they went back to Jamaica, they recorded catch a fire, and that became their debut album on island. Records Dave Anthony 21:14 catch a fire, of course, contains the hit. Stir it up. You up. John Masori 21:27 It's regarded as a classic now, but it really didn't sell too much at the time, but it was a marker, that album was a marker, and what was significant about it was the use of lead guitar overdubs on some of the songs which really resonated with a rock audience, and that was pivotal. Bob wanted to hear what a rock style lead guitar would sound like, see, I think to remember is that when you look at Bob Marley at that time, he had long hair, he smoked weed, he liked girls, he he was A rebel. He played guitar. He wore denim. I mean, this is that you could be describing a rock star of the early 70s. He fit that format. Chris Dave Anthony 22:32 Blackwell saw that persona, I think, and sort of thought this could be the star of this band. Absolutely, John Masori 22:37 that's who he wanted to spearhead this new form of reggae music which could appeal to an international audience made up primarily of rock fans. Dave Anthony 22:51 Interesting. The next album comes out called Vernon October 73 songs like Get up, stand up. Get up, stand up, stand up for your right I shot the sheriff. Would you say that political elements are being turned up a little bit on this album? John Masori 23:19 Yeah, yeah. And I think that came from confidence, yeah. This is what they had in them. This is what they had to offer and get up. Stand up was later adopted by Amnesty International as their anthem. It was a Peter and Bob Marley. You know, they both sang on that record. Dave Anthony 23:41 I guess we'd be remiss if we didn't talk about the Jamaican political situation at that time. You've got a left leaning government, the CIA rumor to be advocating change, to put a pro business government. And can you speak a little bit about the political climate that was really having an impact on the people you know on the ground in Jamaica, John Masori 24:02 yeah, the whalers played their part in in in getting that left wing Prime Minister elected Michael Manley, and certainly they were There was proven CIA involvement in trying to destabilize Manley's government. Dave Anthony 24:24 I mean, I've read that they were supplying guns to gangs in the streets that sort of were against manly Is that fair to say? John Masori 24:31 Oh, definitely. The reason why a lot of Rastafarian artists in Jamaica, and not just Bob Marley and Peter tush, had a fondness, if you like, or lean towards, Michael Manley, was because he did things which we don't hear about as often, free literacy classes all across the island, where people who couldn't read and write could go and and have lessons and learn to do those things. Women's rights, you know, children's rights. There were a lot of good things happening in Jamaica at that time, but the opposition to manly and his ambitions was unprecedented. Really, Dave Anthony 25:17 I was going to get into album five here the natty dread. Well, the John Masori 25:22 first thing to say about that album was that it was Bob Marley's first solo album, because Peter Tosh and Bunny whaler had actually left by then, the way his two album deal with Island Records had finished, and Chris Blackwell signed Bob Marley essentially as a solo act, right? But he he transposed the the name wailers to his backing musicians, which were still centered around the Barrett brothers. How Dave Anthony 25:53 did that go down with Peter Tosh and Bunny Livingston like? How did they or bunny whaler, as he ultimately changed his name to you. How did that go over that split? John Masori 26:02 Well, I don't think they liked Chris Blackwell. I think they felt that Chris Blackwell favored Bob Marley. I think they felt that Bob Marley had betrayed them in various ways. But they also had ambitions of being name artists in their own right, and they went on to prove that. Is Dave Anthony 26:25 there any truth to the fact that Bob Marley went by Bob Marley because he was influenced by Bob Dylan, or is that just a urban myth? John Masori 26:32 No, absolutely. I think the influence of Bob Dylan, a lot of Jamaicans wouldn't like to admit that, but his, his, his influence on some of those Jamaican artists is unmistakable. I mean, the Whaley the whalers themselves, covered a couple of Bob Dylan songs when they're at Studio, one, because he changed the whole notion of songwriting. Even the Beatles were heavily influenced by him, lyrics with meaning and power and Dave Anthony 27:07 nuance. Absolutely, we did a recent show on Bob Dylan, and that certainly came through. He changed the game for the Beatles and everyone that followed. Let's get to Bob Marley's personality at this point. Tell us about Bob, the man here. What's he like? His personality? John Masori 27:23 Bob was very driven, very disciplined. He had a ferocious work ethic. He was renowned for insisting upon rigorous rehearsals. And so, yes, perfectionist, I would say so. And I think what he was driven by was this need to communicate issues he thought were extremely important. Rastafari being one of them, he was driven, as were the band members of spreading the gospel of Rastafari as far and as wide as possible, and also the reggae genre, because he knew that if he could popularize the reggae genre, then the whole economy of Jamaica and the people in Jamaica would lift as a result of that. And I think that was very, very important to him, the rising of his people, the well being of his people, was was very important. It's Dave Anthony 28:38 interesting you say that, because you know, when you compare him to Bob Dylan, or at least at Dylan having influence on anybody, including Marley. Dylan had his early protests, sort of period where he wrote a lot about, you know, the Society of the early 60s in the US and the injustices, etc. But then, sort of, Bob evolved into this, sort of, these lyrics that were almost, you know, they were fantastical and they were but Bob Marley kept going political activism in his songs. It's an incredible legacy that he just kept pushing that agenda, and you said trying to uplift his people. I mean, that's something really special, John Masori 29:16 absolutely, and I think that was absolutely core to his mission as a musician. In 1976 Dave Anthony 29:28 John, we start moving to some impacts or sort of implications, let's call them of Bob's increasing political visibility as a symbol of to his citizens and something violent occurs. 1976 John Masori 29:44 was the year that Mike Prime Minister Michael Manley, declared a national state of emergency, an indefinite state of emergency in Jamaica. Things had got that bad. Molly was writing songs like, who the cat fit. You know is so unjust. Children, 30:06 crazy, bald head, we're gonna chase those John Masori 30:15 crazy ballets out of town. 30:20 See violence out of town. John Masori 30:24 Johnny was about a mother mourning her son who died through through gun violence 30:32 from an older cause the sun had been shot down in the street and died. John Masori 30:44 He was putting it all out there in 1976 and Jamaican society was in turmoil. Essentially, the middle classes were fleeing. They were leaving the island in droves. There were rumors that manly was turning Jamaica into a communist country, fueled, no doubt, by the CIA and American business interests and the Rival party, the JLP, and then towards the end of the year, Mali wanted to give a free concert in Kingston called Smile Jamaica. He wanted to put a smile on people's faces. He wanted to lift people's spirits. And he did a song called Smile Jamaica, which was pretty lightweight, but pretty, you know, likable, and I'm sure he had all the right intentions, except that in order to stage a free concert in the national heroes Park in Jamaica, you need permission of the government, of course, and the government, The Prime Minister's offices, designed and printed the posters with the of Prime Minister's Office printed clearly on the posters look as if Bob Marley was endorsing the PMP. This was very dangerous in such a volatile atmosphere, this was very dangerous. He was warned not to do the show. Bob Marley said, Tell these people making these threats that I turn the other cheek. I mean, he just was going ahead with this, even though he was aware of the confusion this was causing. And as soon as the date of the show, December the fifth, 1976 was announced, Michael Manley declared that the election would take place just a week or so afterwards. So it really did look like this concert was a pre election boost for Manley, Dave Anthony 33:06 yeah, almost a campaign stop or a campaign element, at least John Masori 33:11 Absolutely And so two days before the show was due to take place, gunmen went into 56 hope. Road Dave Anthony 33:21 Marley, which is Bob's home, that's right, John Masori 33:26 the whalers were rehearsing in a back room, and the gunmen poked their guns through the door and just fired indiscriminately. Thankfully, rather than take aim. They were clearly nervous, and they just fired indiscriminately, and they they wounded Bob Rita and the manager, Don Taylor, and another person who worked on the premises, but fortunately, no one was killed. But eyewitnesses have told me that Bob Marley was really shaken up by this. He genuinely believed that the people of Jamaica who he loved so much, he couldn't believe that they would turn against him right Dave Anthony 34:14 shot, I think, in the arm. But he plays the concert anyways, following the assassination of Tim, Marley leaves Jamaica, he goes to London. No, why? Why does he go there? What was the reasoning? Safety? Safety, John Masori 34:31 Yes, probably. It was also where Island Records were based and they had a new studio. And it was also that his girlfriend, Cindy breaks fear had recently been crowned Miss World. Dave Anthony 34:48 She was from Jamaica, yeah, that's right. John Masori 34:52 She was a tenant at 56 Hope Road. They were together when she was crowned Miss World. And. And after the shooting, they went to Nassau for a couple of weeks with some of the musicians and and then she went off to do her promotion as Miss World. And he went to London, started work on the Exodus and Kaya albums, the sound that was created on the Exodus album is more international than than you can hear on any previous Bob Marley release. So this was a real step up for him. And then he was writing inspired by Cindy brixby, and he was writing some absolutely beautiful love songs, waiting In vain. And then something like three little birds. It was just that hit written all over it, as well as crowd pleasers like Exodus and jamming. I mean, Exodus really had everything on that album, The future looked bright, and he he went into Europe to do some European dates. The first date was in Paris. He played football during a break, as he knows, and injured his toe playing football. He'd gone to a doctor about his toe injury and been diagnosed with melanoma cancer. He was told to choose between toe or toe, and basically he he had to take time off. Unfortunately, Dave Anthony 37:17 it just escalated and got worse, which we'll get to in a minute. But there's a seminal point. I mean, he puts out another album, Kaya March 78 with is this love and Exodus. It's a great transition. Opens with a warning quote, many more will have to suffer again. The violence is still happening. The paramilitary groups affiliated with these two parties are still killing each other like it's still bad times, obviously, which leads us up to really him wanting to return. But there's the return to Jamaica, a hero. Once again, he returns for the political another political concert, the one love peace concert. Do you want to tell us about the extraordinary thing that he has happened at that concert relative to peacemaking, John Masori 38:31 he would headline a one love peace concert to to actually celebrate and solidify the peace but the moment when he invited the two heads, two political heads, onto the stage with him, the Prime Minister and the leader of the opposition, and he joined their hands above his head and looked forward and chanted ja Rastafari. I mean, that was probably the most iconic moment in reggae history and of Mali's entire career, and that is what we all remember from that that became immortal, Dave Anthony 39:20 very powerful moment the album eight, which is, I guess, Bob's final studio album has Could you be loved? Which is a great tune. The Redemption song is a very poignant 39:42 one. These songs of freedom, 39:56 songs Dave Anthony 39:58 that might be one of the last songs you record. Recorded? Is that fair to say? Yes, John Masori 40:01 possibly. This may sound a bit controversial, but I knew his keyboard player, Earl wire Lindo, pretty well, and there were rumors that he'd written redemption song, and I asked wire if that were true, and he said, Yes, he did write it, but he he given the song to Bob because he was the singer and he didn't want to make any fuss. That's a Dave Anthony 40:35 beautiful song. John Masori 40:36 Yeah. Dave Anthony 40:37 What is Bob Marley's legacy? John? Where does his place in music history? Where will we look back and say Bob Marley, wow. He was the What will we say about his place in musical history? John Masori 40:50 He has come to symbolize the whole of reggae music, the style of reggae music, the the nature of reggae music, the the philosophical and spiritual backbone of reggae music, what it represents. He is the epitome of all those qualities that we now associate with reggae music, anyone from anywhere, creating a reggae song will be compared to him. Dave Anthony 41:26 When we look at Dylan, we think of his influence on the Beatles. Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young, anyone that followed sort of wrote these very powerful songs. What who did Bob Marley directly influence? Do you think who kind of, kind of can trace their lineage to Marley's approach and the Wailers. John Masori 41:45 I've interviewed many hundreds of reggae and dancehall artists from Jamaica and all over the world, and if I asked them who they were inspired by and who they look up to, I would say 95% of them mentioned Bob Marley in the first sentence that says, Absolutely, and that's hardcore Dancehall artists as well as traditional reggae artists. And then you have all the non reggae artists who've been inspired by him, also truly an international figure. I think in terms of importance, he must be one of the greatest music musicians of the 20th century. He would be right up there with anyone else you care to mention. And we've recently seen the film, One Love movie that's come out. What Dave Anthony 42:55 did you think of the movie? John Masori 42:56 I loved it. The storyline was hopelessly confused. It was a love story about he and Rita. And if they'd have set that love story in the 60s and the very early 70s, it would have been beautiful. But they set it from 76 onwards, when clearly the big love interest in his life at that time was Cindy breaks beers, who wasn't mentioned in the film. So that's pretty inexcusable, but I never thought I would see the day when I went to a mainstream cinema, and the whole audience was singing along to these songs. And it was a film about a ganga-smoking arrest artists from a Jamaican slum. I mean, really, Dave Anthony 43:56 and if he were still alive, have you ever thought about what he would have done in the ensuing years? John Masori 44:02 I asked family man this, and he told me that they were preparing to go back to their roots and make nyabinghi music. Nyabinghi is the traditional rest of music, which is based on drums and chanting as they did on Russ, the man chant from the burning album. They may well have done that, but a friend of mine went down to Jamaica one time to interview Mali, and he was, he was intently listening to Saturday Night Fever Sandra by the beat. And when my friend said, What are you doing? He said, Well, this album sold millions of copies. I want to know why sell records. And what we have to remember is that up until the time he died. Eight, he'd never had a hit in America, not one, not with black audiences, not with white audiences. And Eric Clapton had taken nice shot the sheriff to number one in America. But Bob Marley himself couldn't get anywhere near the billboard 100 so I think that would have been a real mission of his. Dave Anthony 45:23 Yeah, he probably would have pulled it off too. I think he would at the end of the show, we always ask our guests to come up with three picks of songs that the audience should give a listen to John Masori 45:36 simmer down because it's so exuberant and life giving. It's what a debut hit, what's a debut, you know, and and the fact that it was inspired by warring ghetto gangs and telling them to cool it down. But it was so uplifting and so joyous at the same time, it was just a magical record. I can imagine hearing it on a jukebox, you know, as you walk down a road in Kingston, and it would just have knocked Jude for six. So that's one on rebel music, three o'clock roadblock. That's just a hymn to freedom. I mean, why can't we roam this open country, you know? Why can't we be what we want to be? And the way he describes being stopped by the police, and he knows he's going to be asked for his documents and maybe searched for, for ganja, we want 47:00 to be freedom. It 47:12 will John Masori 47:15 forever symbolize what it's like to live in an authoritarian system society. It's brilliant. I love it musically as well. You know, Dave Anthony 47:30 that theme really sets the stage for, you know, bands like NWA and others who really start to write about, you know, corrupt cops and racism and much later, yeah, but boy, Marley and and crew were on this early, obviously, because of their own troubles locally that they had and faced. John Masori 47:51 And he loved, associating himself, casting himself as an outlaw. He did it on and shut the sheriff. And you know, he did it in that song as as well. I think that was a favorite technique, if you can call it of his, and the other one would be redemption song, John Masori 48:30 which is so profound. And he says, None of none of them, can stop the time. In other words, you know what will be. Will be. It's the ultimate expression of faith. Really well. Dave Anthony 48:45 Your passion certainly shines through. And I want to thank you for chronicling these genres of music. It's important work, and you've done it brilliantly. John's authored pressure drop reggae in the 70s, simmer down early whalers story, the story of Bob Marley's whalers, whaling blues, and several other books on the genre. So again, thank you for chronicling such an important genre, and we've thoroughly enjoyed having you here today. Thank John Masori 49:14 you, Dave. It's been a pleasure, and I love your podcast and more health and strength than power in what Dave Anthony 49:22 you do likewise. Thank you so much, John for coming on. John Masori 49:26 Thank you. Dave Anthony 49:30 Today, guest John Missouri talked about the box office smash movie about Bob, which grossed $160 million called One Love. The movie is also fueling the sales of his music catalog, helping him achieve the 150 million sales mentioned at the top of our episode. He ranks number 34 among all time bestsellers, in the same league as the Beach Boys or Bob Dylan. The posthumous album of Bob Marley's called Legend was released in 1984 Podstarter, and contained some of his greatest hits. It went on to become the best selling reggae album of all time, with more than 12 million copies sold worldwide. Time Magazine named Marley's Exodus album from 1977 as its album of the 20th century. That album features songs like Exodus, jamming, waiting in vain, and Three Little Birds, quite a feat to be named the album of the 20th century. In 1994 Bob was posthumously inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, along with Elton John, John Lennon and Rod Stewart, why did Bob Marley and his friends, Peter Tosh and Bunny whaler, use the term whalers as a band name? The word whalers was a reference to their social and economic position in Trenchtown in Kingston, Jamaica, as quote, ghetto sufferers born whaling unquote, in June 1978 Marley was given the United Nations peace medal of the third world at a ceremony in New York. It was presented by African delegates in recognition of Marley's efforts on behalf of millions of disenfranchised black people around the world. A further example of Marley's standing as a global political force was the fact that he was asked to appear at a concert in Zimbabwe, the former Rhodesia, in celebration of that nation's independence from Britain in 1980 Marley ranks at number five on the Forbes list of top earning dead celebrities, with his estate pulling in more than $20 million a year, more than the likes of Prince Marilyn Monroe and John Lennon, as you heard, Bob was diagnosed with cancer in the form of melanoma in his toe. Doctors said one option was to amputate the toe or even the foot to eliminate future cancer risks. Many have speculated that because of Marley's Rasta religious beliefs, he did not opt for the amputation. Since the Rasta religion prohibits cutting into the skin, Marley opted for an alternative cancer treatment in Germany, and when it became apparent it wasn't helping, he decided to return to Jamaica to end his days. Sadly, Marley never made the full journey from Germany to Jamaica and died en route in Miami in May of 1981 Marley was buried in his homeland along with a soccer ball, his Gibson, Les Paul, guitar and a butt of marijuana, the members of the original Wheeler groups are sadly no longer with us either. Bunny Wheeler passed away in March 21 from complications from a stroke he suffered in july 2020 Peter Tosh was tragically killed during a home invasion in 1987 for more on Bob Marley and the whalers career, visit garagetostadiums.com where you can see our bonus coverage of the group, which includes video clips and historical memorabilia. You can see our notes and transcripts from all of our episodes. At the site, we've made it easy for you to build a killer playlist for every performer featured on a garage to stadium episode, including a playlist on today's band Bob Marley and the whalers. Find the link to the apple and Spotify playlist in our bonus coverage section of our website. Follow our show on your favorite podcast platform to be alerted when our next episode drops. We'd love it if you'd provide a review for the show on your favorite podstarter platform. We hope you enjoyed our show today. Special thanks to our guest, John mazzori, author of simmer down, and also thanks to our producers, Amina faubear, Connor Sampson, and our program director, Scott Campbell, you've been listening to garage to stadiums, another blast furnace labs production. I'm Dave Anthony. See you next time for another garage to stadium story you.