Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / IDAHO 4 MURDERS DETAILS: IF WORLD HAD KNOWN, NO KOHBERGER PLEA DEAL

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IDAHO 4 MURDERS DETAILS: IF WORLD HAD KNOWN, NO KOHBERGER PLEA DEAL · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace the Idaho for murder details.
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Speaker 1: If the world had known what we know now, there
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Speaker 1: would never have been a Brian Coberger plead deal. This
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Speaker 1: would have gone to the death penalty. I'm Nancy Grace.
0:23
Speaker 1: This is crime Stories. I want to thank you for
0:25
Speaker 1: being with us.
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Speaker 2: Some of these might be familiar, so set up straight
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Speaker 2: when I talk to you. How was your life right
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Speaker 2: before you murdered my sisters? Did you prepare for the
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Speaker 2: crime before leaving your apartment? Please detail what you were
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Speaker 2: thinking and feeling at this time. Why did you choose
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Speaker 2: my sisters before leaving their home? Is there anything else
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Speaker 2: you did? How does it feel to know the only
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Speaker 2: thing you filled more miserably at than being a murderer
1:01
Speaker 2: is trying to be a rapper?
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Speaker 1: Details only now being revealed.
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Speaker 3: To the public.
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Speaker 1: If the world had known the horrific injuries and more details,
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Speaker 1: there would never have been a plea deal. The public
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Speaker 1: would have rioted at the courthouse steps. We are learning
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Speaker 1: that one of these beautiful co eds stabbed thirty times,
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Speaker 1: another even more Keilly Golensovas's face so many times she
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Speaker 1: is disfigured and beyond identification. It goes on and on.
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Speaker 1: Why was all of this kept secret so everyone would
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Speaker 1: accept the plea deal and think it was for the best.
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Speaker 3: Thank you for being with us with me an all
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Speaker 3: star panel.
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Speaker 1: But first straight out to Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,
1:58
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State Universe, star of a hit podcast Bodybags with
2:03
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, and author of Blood Beneath My Fate
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Speaker 1: on Amazon. Joe Scott, I can hardly take it in
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Speaker 1: what we are learning.
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Speaker 3: First of all, just Scott listened to this.
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Speaker 4: Officers responding to the nine to one one call from
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Speaker 4: eleven twenty two King Road find the kitchen door Ajar.
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Speaker 4: During a walk through the rental house, officer's noticed blood
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Speaker 4: is smeared on the walls and floors and pulling by
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Speaker 4: the bodies on different floors of the house. Three of
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Speaker 4: the four victims were stabbed multiple times and officers were
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Speaker 4: unable to sort out additional injuries. Injuries were so bad
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Speaker 4: to one of the victims, an officer said the victim
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Speaker 4: was unrecognizable.
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Speaker 1: Unrecognizable and before you weigh and Joe Scott, I want
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Speaker 1: you to hear this as well.
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Speaker 5: Kaylee Gonsolves had already moved out of the king Road home,
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Speaker 5: but returned to show her best friend Maddie her new
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Speaker 5: range rover. An officer on scene described her face as disfigured.
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Speaker 5: Kaylee's fatal injuries included a left lung laceration, a liver laceration,
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Speaker 5: two subdual bleeds, and a stab behind her clavicle which
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Speaker 5: cut hers of clavian vein and artery. She had signs
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Speaker 5: of sharp force injuries and blunt force injuries, and was
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Speaker 5: the only victim to suffer asphyxia injuries.
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Speaker 4: Kaylee gonzolvs Was stabbed thirty four times. Her facial structure
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Speaker 4: was extremely damaged, leaving her unrecognizable due to the severity
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Speaker 4: of the stab wounds, and she was identified by methods
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Speaker 4: other than simple visual recognition. Besides defensive marks on her arms,
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Speaker 4: Kaylee had a broken nose, to brain bleeds, and a
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Speaker 4: stab behind her clavicle which severed the subclavian vein and artery.
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Speaker 1: Just goott, that's just one of the victims. Can you
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Speaker 1: imagine what she lived through? No wonder her father, Stiggun
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Speaker 1: Solvace is beside himself. These facts kept secret from the
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Speaker 1: public until after the deal goes down.
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Speaker 3: I don't like it.
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Speaker 6: No, I don't.
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Speaker 7: And this far the level of trauma here, Nancy, far
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Speaker 7: exceeded my expectation. Okay, from what I've been hearing lowth
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Speaker 7: these many years that we've been covering these cases, I
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Speaker 7: did not expect it to be to this degree. The
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Speaker 7: brutality here that has been exacted on these kids is unimaginable,
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Speaker 7: The trauma, the proximity to these individuals per the perpetrator,
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Speaker 7: I mean, this is an asymmetrical attack where he is
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Speaker 7: literally would literally have to be on top of a
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Speaker 7: couple of these victims, just kind of hammering down on them,
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Speaker 7: not just with the blade itself, but also inducing this
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Speaker 7: blunt force trauma which many of these victims have sustained. Nancy,
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Speaker 7: there's also other evidence other than just sharp force injury.
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Speaker 7: We've got indication that markings left behind may have been
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Speaker 7: generated as a result of potentially punching.
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Speaker 1: Make sense of what you are just saying, okay, because
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Speaker 1: you use a lot of technical terms. Kelly Gonsalves was asphyxiated, Okay,
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Speaker 1: there were marks on her mouth, there were other signs
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Speaker 1: that she had been suffocated or strangled. But what is
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Speaker 1: so shocking to me amongst all of this, it's all shocking,
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Speaker 1: is that there are multiple stabs to the face.
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Speaker 3: Susan Hendrix joining me, She.
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Speaker 1: Has been camped outside the county courthouse there. From the
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Speaker 1: get go, author of Down the Hill, I descend into
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Speaker 1: the double murder in Delphi. There she did another deep,
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Speaker 1: deep look at the Delphi murders. Susan Hendricks, Am I
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Speaker 1: understanding this correctly? All the injuries sustained by Keilly, and
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Speaker 1: that's not even the worst. I think Matty Mogan had
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Speaker 1: even more stab wounds. But all of these stab wounds
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Speaker 1: to the face.
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Speaker 8: Susan Hendricks, Yes, to me, that shows a deep rooted
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Speaker 8: hate and envy for those women. Absolutely right, Nancy, when
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Speaker 8: you say no wonder Steve was so furious and you
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Speaker 8: didn't even know what we know now. And I remember
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Speaker 8: early on, Nancy, you'll remember too that the coroner said
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Speaker 8: they were likely sleeping. What that almost sounds deliberate to
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Speaker 8: turn the people off, to say, oh, nothing to see here,
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Speaker 8: and knocking down the house. I mean, these injuries horrific.
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Speaker 8: You're right, Matty Mogan wounds to the face, Xana Kernodle
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Speaker 8: more than fifty stab wounds. Fifty It's unbelievable.
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Speaker 1: Fifty to Xana, Xana, fifty stab wounds. And what's so
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Speaker 1: crazy about this is let me go to a shrink.
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Speaker 3: Doctor John Delatori.
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Speaker 1: Is joining us, and I want to follow up on
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Speaker 1: what Susan Hendricks just said. Delatory psychologists specializing in forensic psychology.
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Speaker 1: All these wounds to the face. Now, I'm just a
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Speaker 1: trial lawyer, okay, but this means something coologically, There's no
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Speaker 1: doubt in my mind.
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Speaker 3: I don't care.
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Speaker 1: If the Angel Gabriel came down and told me it
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Speaker 1: means nothing, I'd have to call him a liar. Because
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Speaker 1: when you stab a woman in the face fifty times,
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Speaker 1: or in this case, Kili Gounsolve is twenty thirty times,
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Speaker 1: Doctor John Delatory, what does it mean?
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Speaker 9: I think you know, other guests, you're going to talk
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Speaker 9: about the level of hating and animosity towards it. But
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Speaker 9: for me, he literally tried to erase her. He literally
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Speaker 9: tried to erase her identity from this planet. He hated
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Speaker 9: her so much that she couldn't even exist as a
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Speaker 9: human being anymore. That's the level of brutality that we're
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Speaker 9: dealing with here. When he walked into that room, he
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Speaker 9: imagined that she would no longer exist.
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Speaker 6: As a human.
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Speaker 9: That's what he was searching for. That's what he was
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Speaker 9: doing with all of this stuff, and whatever way that
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Speaker 9: he could accomplish that, he was going to spend the
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Speaker 9: time necessary, because imagine how much time that he has
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Speaker 9: to spend for you know, choking and then sabbing all
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Speaker 9: across her body and then the amount of times on
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Speaker 9: her face. That takes time. That's not something that's just
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Speaker 9: easily done. So he wanted to do this specifically to her,
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Speaker 9: to erase her identity from this planet.
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Speaker 1: What is so bizarre, doctor Delatory, is that he was
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Speaker 1: not insane, not insane now, not insane then, not temporary
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Speaker 1: insanity at the time.
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Speaker 3: And when you look at him as.
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Speaker 1: He's sitting there and sentencing, and he's looking as some
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Speaker 1: described it, and Susan Hendrix was there when he was
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Speaker 1: looking at the victims' families crying and snotting and begging
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Speaker 1: for the truth. He was described as like looking like
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Speaker 1: a hawk watching its prey, enjoying watching its squirm. And
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Speaker 1: this is the guy that stabbed this young girl up
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Speaker 1: to fifty times in the face the body. But I've
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Speaker 1: read a lot of studies, and I put a lot
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Speaker 1: of experts on the stand doctor Dilatory that explain that
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Speaker 1: when an attack her specifically attacks a woman's face or
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Speaker 1: her genitals, it's an anti woman thing.
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Speaker 3: He is destroying her beauty.
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Speaker 1: And there have been a lot of analyzes done on
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Speaker 1: Coburger implicating him as an in cel, an involuntary celibate
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Speaker 1: that hates women because he can't get women. Explain what
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Speaker 1: this all means. The attack to the victim's face not
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Speaker 1: just one. Kelly was totally disfigured. Dylan couldn't even identify her.
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Speaker 3: You heard it.
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Speaker 1: She had to be identified by means other than a
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Speaker 1: visual identification like you see in the movies and TVPSA
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Speaker 1: doesn't happen anymore where the loved one is brought in
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Speaker 1: and the all the shape back.
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Speaker 3: That doesn't happen anymore. But when they asked Dylan.
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Speaker 1: Who is that, she couldn't identify killing right, That's how
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Speaker 1: bad it was.
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Speaker 3: She was stabbed so many times in the face.
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Speaker 9: This is clearly gender based hatred. Clearly gender based hatred.
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Speaker 9: When we talk about the in cells, what we need
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Speaker 9: to remember is that they're primarily an online forum in
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Speaker 9: which all of these sad sack losers blame women for
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Speaker 9: all of their problems. Now, when we look at Coburger,
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Speaker 9: we can certainly see that there are elements in which
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Speaker 9: he viewed women as being subservient, as not being qualified
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Speaker 9: to be in the same room as him. But there's
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Speaker 9: a level of hatred here when it comes to these
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Speaker 9: behaviors that he's been fostering for a long period of time.
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Speaker 9: He's had to learn to control all of these behaviors.
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Speaker 9: And that's why I think you saw him the way
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Speaker 9: that we all saw him when it came to the
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Speaker 9: victim statements. He's taking it all in, he's listening to it.
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Speaker 9: He's in control, so he believes, and he's not going
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Speaker 9: to let anybody see what's underneath that hates.
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Speaker 1: I got another wrench to throw in the works for
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Speaker 1: you to just mull over. We learn from inmates behind
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Speaker 1: bars now that he obsessively washes his hands over and
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Speaker 1: over and over and will spend over an hour in
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Speaker 1: the shower behind bars. So the dichotomy of him obsessively
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Speaker 1: cleaning himself but yet stabbing these victims up to fifty
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Speaker 1: times each. Then we see him, Susan Hendricks, as you
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Speaker 1: did in the sentencing and he did. He looked like
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Speaker 1: a hawk staring at a little varmint caught in its talons,
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Speaker 1: just watching it scorm. He liked it, Susan, Yeah, he
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Speaker 1: absolutely loved it.
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Speaker 8: And I think he, for lack of a better term,
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Speaker 8: got off on the women going up to the podium
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Speaker 8: besides Olivia Gonzalvez. He did not like Kur I could
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Speaker 8: tell by his clenched jaw, but with the women, the
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Speaker 8: surviving roommates crying, and he also didn't like the men,
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Speaker 8: the men and Kelly's father turning the podium and on
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Speaker 8: the podium it said do not move.
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Speaker 3: He didn't listen, focused.
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Speaker 8: Right at coburger and said you picked the wrong family.
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Speaker 8: And by the way, they had heard about the thirty
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Speaker 8: plus stab wounds with Kelley, right.
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Speaker 3: Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, Susan. You know what, Susan,
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Speaker 3: spare me.
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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm hoping that he got an effected him. He's living,
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Speaker 1: he's breathing, and I and you and the victims' families
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Speaker 1: are paying for it. And what I want to know,
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Speaker 1: if you have any idea why all this was kept
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Speaker 1: secret until after the deal was done, and it couldn't
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Speaker 1: be undone. There would have been a mob on the
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Speaker 1: courthouse steps if they had known Kelly for one like
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Speaker 1: the others were so attacked brutally.
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Speaker 3: Step and think.
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Speaker 1: About it, Joe Scott maybybe I'm not explaining this well,
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Speaker 1: the k bar knife and you got the same exact
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Speaker 1: kbar knife as did I. To think of that knife
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Speaker 1: in this girl's face, what thirty times that we know of,
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Speaker 1: and many of those wounds were overlapping, so you can't
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Speaker 1: differentiate one versus two versus three if the stab comes
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Speaker 1: down in the same spot in her face.
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Speaker 3: This guy is laughing at Everybody's probably writing a book
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Speaker 3: right now.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, he is.
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Speaker 7: And I'm sure that there are academics out there that
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Speaker 7: are salivating at the opportunity to get to sit in and
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Speaker 7: sell with him. And he's going to have control now, Nancy.
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Speaker 7: He's going to have control of the conversation because he
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Speaker 7: was not forced to allocute. I'll keep preaching that over
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Speaker 7: and over again. An academic will go in there and
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Speaker 7: he will get get ready for him to be able
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Speaker 7: to tell his side of the story. Let me tell
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Speaker 7: you one more if you like that one. This is
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Speaker 7: what I believe. I believe that there is probably institution
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Speaker 7: out there somewhere around the world that will allow him
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Speaker 7: in prison to complete his PhD. Just chew on that
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Speaker 7: for a second. After what he did to these kids
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Speaker 7: over and over and over again. He brutalized each and
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Speaker 7: every one of them to the point where you've got
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Speaker 7: one child is completely unrecognizable and you've got another one
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Speaker 7: that sustained so many stab wounds, so many stab wounds
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Speaker 7: that you cannot begin to fully appreciate the savagery. I
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Speaker 7: don't think that she went through in those last moments
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Speaker 7: of her life. And one more thing about Ethan. You
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Speaker 7: know that image that we've seen for years and years now,
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Speaker 7: those of that streaking down the side of the house, Well, Nancy,
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Speaker 7: that turns out that that was positively examined and turns
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Speaker 7: out that that was Ethan's blood. As a forensic scientist,
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Speaker 7: I'm not going to look at an image and you
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Speaker 7: can take this to the bank. I've never said that
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Speaker 7: that was blood. After they have released this information, they've
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Speaker 7: said that's his blood. That gives you an idea relative
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Speaker 7: to the volume, the volume of terror, the volume of
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Speaker 7: trauma that these kids were subjected to, and it's actually
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Speaker 7: visualized on the outside of that house.
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Speaker 1: Not only that, Joe Scott, the evidence that caller golns
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Speaker 1: solve this was asphyxiated. It's not just all the stab
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Speaker 1: wounds to the face. Yep, he silenced her.
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Speaker 10: Listen, damage around her mouth, suggesting Coberger tried to silence
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Speaker 10: or gag her in some way.
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Speaker 6: The family lawyer.
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Speaker 10: Suggested a second weapon was used to inflict blunt force
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Speaker 10: trauma to her face, while others believe the trauma could
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Speaker 10: have been caused by the butt of the k bar knife.
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Speaker 10: Haley's asphyxia injuries were caused by blunt force trauma to
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Speaker 10: her face and mouth area, potentially alongside other forms of
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Speaker 10: restriction or obstruction.
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Speaker 1: Just Scott, please explain that that this was caused by
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Speaker 1: the butt of his knife.
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Speaker 3: Is that like pistol whipping somebody.
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Speaker 1: With the butt of a gum but you're doing it
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Speaker 1: with the butt of that kbar.
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Speaker 3: What does this mean?
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Speaker 7: No, what it means is when this knife was developed, Nancy,
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Speaker 7: for the Marine Corps to use in the field, they
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Speaker 7: use it for a variety of things. Did you know
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Speaker 7: that combat, in combat, you can use this as a bludgeon.
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Speaker 7: Look at that? What does it look like? It looks
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Speaker 7: like the leading edge of a hammer, doesn't it. And
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Speaker 7: this thing is steal so as you're driving it down
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Speaker 7: like a piston, you're actually driving it down into the tissue.
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Speaker 7: That's going to explain a lot of the fractures that
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Speaker 7: you might see with her face, potentially because he's in
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Speaker 7: such close proximity to her as he's traumatizing her.
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Speaker 2: Please describe in detail the level of anxiety you must
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Speaker 2: have felt when you heard the bear cat pull up
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Speaker 2: to your family home on December thirtieth, twenty twenty two.
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Speaker 2: Which do you regret more returning to the crime scene
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Speaker 2: five hours later, or never ever going back to Moscow,
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Speaker 2: not even one after stalking them there for months. If
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Speaker 2: you are really smart, do you think you'd be here
17:06
Speaker 2: right now? What's it like needing this much attention just
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Speaker 2: to feel real? You're terrified of being ordinary, aren't you?
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Speaker 2: Do you feel anything at all? Or are you exactly
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Speaker 2: what you always feared?
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Speaker 3: Nothing?
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Speaker 2: If you're so powerful, then why are you still hiding?
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Speaker 3: Defendant?
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Speaker 2: You see I'm here today as me, But who are you?
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Speaker 2: Let's try to take off your mask and see the
17:43
Speaker 2: truth is the scariest part about you. It's how painfully average.
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Speaker 2: You turned out to be as dumb as they come, stupid, clumsy, slow, sloppy, weak, dirty.
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Speaker 2: Don't ever try to convince yourself you mattered just because
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Speaker 2: someone final said your name out loud.
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Speaker 1: You're seeing coburger there in the Senate, saying Susan Hendricks
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Speaker 1: described the way he looked, which is a complete opposite
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Speaker 1: of the person that carried out these knowing but frenzied
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Speaker 1: acts on the victim, fifty stab wounds, thirty stab wounds,
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Speaker 1: disfiguring Kelly's face with a k bar knife and the
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Speaker 1: butt of the knife. What was he like in that sentencing, Nancy?
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Speaker 8: There was no movement at all, stoics, staring straight ahead.
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Speaker 8: The only time I saw any facial expression is when
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Speaker 8: he walked in in the beginning and then after the
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Speaker 8: break and smiled towards his mother.
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Speaker 3: Other than that, my dad was watching.
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Speaker 8: At home and said he has to be on medication.
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Speaker 8: He's making zero movement. I said, no, he doesn't have
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Speaker 8: the feelings. They're just not there.
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Speaker 1: Guys, compare his demeanor in the courtroom to the frenzied
18:55
Speaker 1: attack on the victims.
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Speaker 3: Listen.
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Speaker 4: The severity of Kaylee's injury was such that even roommate
19:01
Speaker 4: Dylan Mortenson initially misidentified Kaylee as Xena due to the disfigurement.
19:06
Speaker 4: Xanna Kernodle was awake and her order from Jack in
19:09
Speaker 4: the Box had just been delivered when she appears to
19:12
Speaker 4: have heard something going on in the room upstairs occupied
19:15
Speaker 4: by Mattie and Kaylee. As Xena is on the stairs
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Speaker 4: leading upstairs, she was confronted by Coburger exiting Mattie's room,
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Speaker 4: and he attacks Xena as she attempts to retreat to
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Speaker 4: her room.
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Speaker 1: Joining me is Chris mcdunna, director Cole Case Foundation, former
19:30
Speaker 1: homicide detective who has scoured the scene as well.
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Speaker 3: I want you to hear this and then give.
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Speaker 1: Me your analysis of how Xana was attacked by Coburger.
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Speaker 1: It's nothing like we were told at the beginning, Like
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Speaker 1: Susan Hendricks was saying, Oh, they all were killed in
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Speaker 1: their sleep, Okay, they drifted off to death. It's anything
19:54
Speaker 1: but listen to this.
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Speaker 10: Chris Coberger attacks Xena, but she puts up a fight
19:59
Speaker 10: and sustains more than fifty stab wounds. Many of Xanna's
20:02
Speaker 10: wounds are defensive wounds, and a gash on her left
20:05
Speaker 10: hand between her index finger and thumb, as well as
20:08
Speaker 10: blunt force injuries on her body. A life and death
20:12
Speaker 10: struggle between Xanna and Coberger took place in her room.
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Speaker 10: Xanna's fatal injuries identified as a laceration to her right
20:19
Speaker 10: lung and two lacerations to her heart.
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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. So he was stabbing her
20:35
Speaker 1: so brutally. He lacerated her lung and twice to the heart.
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Speaker 1: Was he just sitting on top of her, just stabbing
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Speaker 1: her over and over and over?
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Speaker 3: What about this?
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Speaker 1: You've had a lot of theories about the way this
20:51
Speaker 1: thing went down, and if the public, if the world
20:53
Speaker 1: had known what we're learning now, I think the courthouse
20:58
Speaker 1: would have been surrounded by tor and pitchforks for Pete's sake,
21:02
Speaker 1: not to let that sweetheart and deal go through.
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Speaker 3: It sounds like Xana hears something.
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Speaker 1: She was awake because she had just gotten that order
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Speaker 1: from Jack in the Box. She hears something going on
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Speaker 1: upstairs in the room occupied by Maddie and Cally. She's
21:19
Speaker 1: on the stairs that lead to upstairs, and then is
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Speaker 1: then it's then she's confronted by Coburger. Give me your scenario, So, Nancy,
21:29
Speaker 1: I mean We've talked about this many times on your show.
21:32
Speaker 11: Just think about this idea of the frenzy that's taking
21:36
Speaker 11: place on the third floor that delectorium Doc Morgan's are
21:41
Speaker 11: talking about, where this guy is trying to erase everybody
21:46
Speaker 11: that he's contacting with. Now you have this young, innocent
21:50
Speaker 11: human being who here's what's going on upstairs, interrupts and
21:56
Speaker 11: then he turns on her like the wolf that he is,
22:00
Speaker 11: and then slaughters her. I think that was probably the
22:03
Speaker 11: time he dropped the sheet because she's in this frenzy.
22:07
Speaker 1: So Scott describe the injuries to Xanna.
22:10
Speaker 7: Xanna. The interesting thing about her injuries Nancy is that
22:14
Speaker 7: she's got multiple defensive injuries. That's why I used the
22:18
Speaker 7: term that she fought. This was like a titan like fight.
22:23
Speaker 7: She knows that her life is coming to an end,
22:27
Speaker 7: or she's trying to avoid it, and so she's got
22:29
Speaker 7: multiple injuries where she's raising her arm like this and
22:34
Speaker 7: her hand and these cuts run onto her arm, where
22:40
Speaker 7: if you're talking about sword play or knife player, you're
22:42
Speaker 7: talking about a term called perry where you're trying to
22:45
Speaker 7: defend yourself like this. Do you remember Nancy the first
22:48
Speaker 7: bit of physical trauma. Information that was actually leaked out
22:53
Speaker 7: in this case had to do specifically with Xana, and
22:56
Speaker 7: it had to do with the fact that that knife
22:59
Speaker 7: had been drawn through her hand to the point where
23:03
Speaker 7: her tendons were cut. And I knew at that moment
23:07
Speaker 7: time that was several months ago. It seems like now
23:10
Speaker 7: I knew at that time that she had fought ferociously.
23:14
Speaker 7: I just didn't realize, Tancy, that this was going to
23:17
Speaker 7: wind up with a total of fifty five zero injuries
23:23
Speaker 7: to this diminutive young woman. And I see this, and
23:27
Speaker 7: then I see that reptile in court, and I think
23:31
Speaker 7: about this is this is no match here physically showing
23:34
Speaker 7: up with a combat knife and he is literally just
23:37
Speaker 7: full of anger and rage. I'm not saying that Xanna
23:40
Speaker 7: was the target. I'm saying, like Chris had said, that
23:43
Speaker 7: she became kind of like an impediment to him getting
23:47
Speaker 7: ready to x Fill out of that house. He got
23:50
Speaker 7: in her, she got in his way, and you know,
23:53
Speaker 7: Katie barred the door at that point in time. The
23:56
Speaker 7: totality of his rage is taken out on her. At
23:59
Speaker 7: this point in the aftermath.
24:01
Speaker 1: Joining me now is a veteran trial lawyer Greg Morse,
24:06
Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney at Morse's Legal author of The Untested
24:10
Speaker 1: on Amazon. Greg, there's no need to argue with me
24:15
Speaker 1: about guilt or innessis because he's already played guilty.
24:18
Speaker 3: All right.
24:19
Speaker 1: He's behind bars right now and you're going to hear this.
24:22
Speaker 3: Greg.
24:23
Speaker 1: He's got a tablet, he's got an iPad. He can
24:26
Speaker 1: watch movies. He can communicate with the outside world. He's
24:30
Speaker 1: got email, he can listen to music. He can have
24:32
Speaker 1: his vegan diet. He can write books. There is no
24:36
Speaker 1: son of Sam law in Idaho, which means he can
24:40
Speaker 1: make money off of his books and his appearances. If
24:45
Speaker 1: he dials into some no son of Sam protection laws
24:51
Speaker 1: in Idaho, he can call zoom in from his laptop
24:56
Speaker 1: to the next criminal defense gala and give his side.
25:02
Speaker 1: He didn't speak, of course, it's sentencing. He won't be
25:05
Speaker 1: cross examined.
25:06
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah. It goes on.
25:08
Speaker 1: He can have visits from women, he can have girlfriends.
25:11
Speaker 1: Look at your on Vandersliet. He's had two children behind bars.
25:14
Speaker 1: It goes on. Greg Morse, I want to talk to
25:19
Speaker 1: you about why these incendiary fact incendiary. Think about that
25:25
Speaker 1: word incendiary. What is an incendiary device like a Molotov cocktail.
25:30
Speaker 1: You throw it, it hits and it blows up and
25:33
Speaker 1: destroys everything around it. These incendiary facts are now being
25:40
Speaker 1: released after the deed is done.
25:43
Speaker 3: Greg and I think that is wrong.
25:48
Speaker 6: Well, it's not, it's not. The case is over, and
25:51
Speaker 6: I'd be shocked if all the family members didn't have
25:53
Speaker 6: access to this information if they wanted to with the prosecutor,
25:58
Speaker 6: you know you were a prosecut Nancy. Criminal law is
26:01
Speaker 6: not for the media. It happens in the courtroom and
26:04
Speaker 6: in offices, and it's very different than what gets played
26:06
Speaker 6: out in public. And at the end of the day,
26:10
Speaker 6: while you can look at these facts and say they're
26:12
Speaker 6: you know, they're right, they're aggravating factors. If this were
26:15
Speaker 6: the death penalty and we moved on to the death
26:17
Speaker 6: penalty phase of the case, he went to trial and
26:19
Speaker 6: was convicted, the government would be obviously putting all of
26:22
Speaker 6: these extreme violence that he did to these people as
26:27
Speaker 6: aggravating factors that weren't the death penalty. However, all of
26:31
Speaker 6: that being said, that doesn't bring solace. It doesn't change
26:35
Speaker 6: the fact that he has multiple life sentences. The family
26:38
Speaker 6: will not feel unaccomplishing.
26:41
Speaker 1: You a soulless I'm certainly not asking a criminal defense
26:47
Speaker 1: attorney to speak to the suffering of crime victims. You
26:51
Speaker 1: represent the bad guys. Okay, let's just get that straight. Okay,
26:55
Speaker 1: that's what you do. I'm asking you about the fact
26:59
Speaker 1: that these incendiary details were kept secret, and yes, I
27:04
Speaker 1: understand that they were kept secret for a reason.
27:08
Speaker 3: But in my mind, this.
27:10
Speaker 1: Is justification to seek the death penalty, not to have
27:14
Speaker 1: him laid up in a cell washing his hands with
27:17
Speaker 1: pure l watching an X rated video on his iPad. No, again,
27:23
Speaker 1: here we're learning Keiley was disfigured with a k bar
27:27
Speaker 1: knife to the face.
27:28
Speaker 3: What thirty times?
27:30
Speaker 6: I didn't need to read all the penalformation. You're right,
27:34
Speaker 6: it doesn't do anything. It doesn't stop crime. There are
27:36
Speaker 6: people in the Idaho Maximum Prison since nineteen eighty five
27:39
Speaker 6: that are still waiting for execution. Nobody doesn't commit a
27:42
Speaker 6: crime because someone got the death penalty. Those type of
27:46
Speaker 6: cases do not lead to that result. The death penalty
27:49
Speaker 6: is a waste. All it would do in this case
27:51
Speaker 6: is Okay.
27:52
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you again to start preaching the
27:54
Speaker 1: pros and cause of the death penertation.
27:56
Speaker 3: I'm telling you and asking.
27:58
Speaker 1: You, do you think the public would have gone along
28:00
Speaker 1: with this deal if they had known the truth?
28:03
Speaker 6: The public's irrelevant.
28:04
Speaker 3: It's not fair.
28:05
Speaker 6: That's all that matters. But no one cares. You're not
28:07
Speaker 6: in the case. Nobody cares, like it doesn't matter, you
28:10
Speaker 6: don't matter, No one matters. I don't matter. It's those victims'
28:14
Speaker 6: families that matter. And what and prosecutors, you were one.
28:18
Speaker 6: You have to make a hard choice in difficult situations.
28:21
Speaker 1: And there is absolutely no Greg Moore, Yeah, it does matter.
28:26
Speaker 1: It does matter because prosecutor doesn't do anything to.
28:31
Speaker 3: Do the right thing.
28:33
Speaker 1: This was not the right thing to stab a young
28:36
Speaker 1: girl in the face thirty or more times with that
28:40
Speaker 1: thing right there, and nobody knows that until now. Uh
28:47
Speaker 1: uh oh. You keep saying you don't matter, I don't matter.
28:50
Speaker 1: That's bs We do matter. Every voice matters, every voice matters.
28:57
Speaker 1: He was entrusted with doing the right thing by the public,
29:02
Speaker 1: doing the right thing for the public, the people in Idaho,
29:06
Speaker 1: and this was not the right thing. Now we're learning
29:11
Speaker 1: about all of these disgusting facts. I mean, Joe Scott,
29:15
Speaker 1: you've scoured the medical Examiner's report.
29:18
Speaker 3: What repels you the most. If you can even pick.
29:22
Speaker 7: I don't know that I can. I can't narrow it
29:23
Speaker 7: down because it's so vast, Nancy. Out of all the
29:27
Speaker 7: cases certainly that I've covered in the media, this farester
29:30
Speaker 7: passes when you're talking about an edged weapon. I've never
29:34
Speaker 7: seen this, Nancy. I never saw it. In all my
29:36
Speaker 7: years in practice in New Orleans and Atlanta, I've never
29:39
Speaker 7: seen four people, four four people, this disfigured, this brutalized
29:45
Speaker 7: in one location with one case. This far exceeds anything
29:49
Speaker 7: that I can imagine. But also there's one other element here,
29:53
Speaker 7: and this might be more of a John comment, but
29:56
Speaker 7: the idea that the terror that they lived in in
30:01
Speaker 7: those final moments, and I don't know that we can
30:04
Speaker 7: take the measure I think on trauma. You can't take
30:07
Speaker 7: the measure on what they went through in those final moments.
30:10
Speaker 6: Nancy.
30:11
Speaker 7: It's something that you cannot absolutely quantify.
30:15
Speaker 10: Madison Mogen might have been asleep when Brian Coberger snuck
30:19
Speaker 10: into the room to attack, but she woke up to
30:21
Speaker 10: fight back against her killer. Mattie had defensive wounds to
30:25
Speaker 10: her forearms and hands, indicating she was not stabbed to
30:28
Speaker 10: death in her sleep with no awareness to what was happening.
30:31
Speaker 10: Her death was caused by lacerations to her liver and
30:34
Speaker 10: left lung from sharp forced injuries, and she suffered a
30:36
Speaker 10: gash extending from her eye to her nose. On the
30:40
Speaker 10: third floor, Kaylee and Madison are found together in a
30:42
Speaker 10: bed under a pink blanket covered in blood. There is
30:45
Speaker 10: a large pool of blood near Kaylee's midsection and blood
30:48
Speaker 10: spatter on the walls. The officer notes Mattie appears to
30:51
Speaker 10: be laying up against Kaylee, and Maddie has what appeared
30:54
Speaker 10: to be wounds to her forearm and hands. A gash
30:57
Speaker 10: from under her right eye appears to go from the
30:59
Speaker 10: corner of her eye to her nose. The officer notes
31:02
Speaker 10: Kayleie is unrecognizable as her facial structure is extremely damaged.
31:12
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
31:17
Speaker 2: You want the truth, Here's the one you'll hate the most.
31:21
Speaker 2: If you hadn't attacked them in their sleep in the
31:24
Speaker 2: middle of the night like a pedophile, Kaylee.
31:27
Speaker 3: Would have kicked your gass.
31:30
Speaker 2: Thank you.
31:31
Speaker 10: As Xana Kernodle puts up a fight, her boyfriend Ethan
31:34
Speaker 10: Chapin appears to have been asleep and never woke up.
31:38
Speaker 10: Ethan died from sharp force injuries, and the fatal injury
31:41
Speaker 10: was a stab wound under his left clavicle. This wound
31:44
Speaker 10: severed his subclavian vein in subclavian artery as well as
31:47
Speaker 10: his jugular vein.
31:48
Speaker 1: Talk like that would have thrown me completely over the
31:50
Speaker 1: edge of the cliff if I were trying this case.
31:54
Speaker 1: You have to have the medical examiner explain in regular
31:57
Speaker 1: people talk what he said saying. What he's saying is
32:02
Speaker 1: that Ethan was likely attacked in his sleep. His body
32:06
Speaker 1: found lying in bed, partially under a blanket covering his
32:11
Speaker 1: midsection and bottom line. Susan Hendrix, his jugular vein was sliced,
32:18
Speaker 1: there was arterial bleeding which likely went all the way
32:23
Speaker 1: up to the ceiling. That's what happened to this beautiful
32:28
Speaker 1: young boy, explaining Susan Hendrix.
32:31
Speaker 8: Absolutely and the authorities who first came into that room
32:34
Speaker 8: says there was blood smeared all over the walls, and
32:37
Speaker 8: I go back to the corner, saying they were likely
32:40
Speaker 8: killed in their sleep. It looked like a horror seed
32:43
Speaker 8: like a movie all around that house. And the attorney
32:46
Speaker 8: mentioned defense attorney who matters guests who felt like they
32:49
Speaker 8: didn't matter. All of the family members and Caylee's father
32:54
Speaker 8: has been saying that from the start, and he didn't
32:55
Speaker 8: even know the extent of the injuries so much so
32:59
Speaker 8: they made mattered that they only had twenty four hours
33:03
Speaker 8: they found out the email that there was a plea
33:05
Speaker 8: deal that was reached. They felt like they didn't matter.
33:08
Speaker 8: They were a secondary thought.
33:10
Speaker 1: Okay, Greg Morrise, you can put that. Let me just
33:14
Speaker 1: put it mildly. Well, I can think of a lot
33:17
Speaker 1: of places you could shove that, but I'll just say
33:20
Speaker 1: correct it. Put it in your pipe and smoke it.
33:22
Speaker 6: Let's correct. The mischaracter deal has already.
33:24
Speaker 1: Done and sealed before the family got to even talk
33:27
Speaker 1: about it.
33:27
Speaker 12: The victim and your families matter, not the panelists. And
33:32
Speaker 12: also correct the information son of Samuel's victims family unconstitutional.
33:39
Speaker 6: So just to say who matters? What I'm talking about
33:41
Speaker 6: is the public's view for justice, mercy, whatever doesn't matter.
33:45
Speaker 6: It's about the victims, the victim's family, the prosecutor. So
33:49
Speaker 6: we're talking about this in a vacuum. But the prosecutors
33:52
Speaker 6: spoken with the victims family and the only thing that
33:54
Speaker 6: can give them solace is their loved one back, and
33:56
Speaker 6: that's impossible, so of course they're going to be.
34:00
Speaker 1: That's not correct, Tim, if you out my season, Hendricks,
34:05
Speaker 1: wasn't this plea agreed upon before the victims' families found
34:10
Speaker 1: out about it? I'm not talking about the public. I'm
34:12
Speaker 1: not talking about Morse or anybody else on this panel,
34:15
Speaker 1: because at least to that little tiny bit extent, Morse
34:19
Speaker 1: is right. What we think doesn't matter because it's already done.
34:24
Speaker 1: It's over. Isn't it true, Hendrix, that this deal was
34:28
Speaker 1: agreed upon before the family even knew about it. They
34:31
Speaker 1: were notified in an email, Hey, here's the deal.
34:35
Speaker 3: Yeah.
34:35
Speaker 8: Steve Gonzalez was so furious he didn't even go into
34:39
Speaker 8: court when it was announced that a plea deal has
34:42
Speaker 8: been reached. He was infuriated. Kelly's brother is still They're
34:47
Speaker 8: all still infuriated.
34:49
Speaker 3: Didn't speak of the victim impact statements.
34:51
Speaker 8: He said, I just feel like I couldn't contain myself
34:54
Speaker 8: what was decided around us, not for us, around us,
34:59
Speaker 8: giving them really twenty four hours to get to that
35:02
Speaker 8: courtroom to hear that a plea deal has been reached.
35:05
Speaker 8: They felt left out, They didn't even know, and I
35:09
Speaker 8: don't know what kind of inspired the prosecutor, if you will,
35:12
Speaker 8: to tell them how brutal the attacks were. But they
35:14
Speaker 8: heard just hours before the victim impacts statements. They weren't
35:18
Speaker 8: even going to hear them. It's just they kept them out.
35:22
Speaker 8: You're right, we don't matter they do, and they were
35:25
Speaker 8: tossed to the side of it, I believe.
35:26
Speaker 1: And let me be very very clear regarding son of
35:30
Speaker 1: Sam laws a US Supreme Court case, I believe it
35:34
Speaker 1: was about the movie Wise Guys. But regardless of the movie,
35:39
Speaker 1: the Supreme Courts reversed the son of Sam law the
35:45
Speaker 1: national law. However, since that time, forty or more states
35:51
Speaker 1: have enacted their own state wide son of Sam laws
35:56
Speaker 1: that comply to the federal US Supreme Court case.
36:01
Speaker 3: So there are son of Sam laws.
36:04
Speaker 1: In effect right now that are constitutionally approved, but not Idaho.
36:11
Speaker 1: Therefore Coburger can make money. Yes he can, Oh, yes
36:17
Speaker 1: he can.
36:18
Speaker 3: Now.
36:19
Speaker 1: We are also learning from recently released files the Coburger
36:24
Speaker 1: is called red handed stalking the victims. We find out
36:29
Speaker 1: in the files that repeatedly these young girls saw someone
36:34
Speaker 1: lurking in that tree line.
36:36
Speaker 3: Hey new yourk control room, Please.
36:38
Speaker 1: Show me the home the King wrote address, especially that
36:43
Speaker 1: one video where McDonough and.
36:45
Speaker 3: I walked up behind the house.
36:47
Speaker 1: There's an higher vantage point if you can get the video,
36:52
Speaker 1: get it because that's the tree line. I think they're
36:55
Speaker 1: talking about Chris McDonough. Repeatedly.
36:58
Speaker 3: The dog I think the dog's name.
36:59
Speaker 1: Is Murph would go and attack the tree line uncharacteristically.
37:05
Speaker 1: I mean, you know when your dog is doing something
37:07
Speaker 1: they don't normally do.
37:10
Speaker 13: That.
37:10
Speaker 1: There you go, there you go. There's a tree line.
37:13
Speaker 1: I think they're talking about Chris McDonough. They saw a
37:16
Speaker 1: shadowy figure skulking in those trees. The dog would go
37:21
Speaker 1: and attack at the time they saw the shadowy figure
37:25
Speaker 1: and when they didn't see the shadowy figure, but they
37:28
Speaker 1: now believe he was there. And hold on, mcdunna, you've
37:32
Speaker 1: got to see this before you weigh in on one
37:35
Speaker 1: of his many outings to scout the murder, saying, idiot
37:41
Speaker 1: Coburger was actually pulled over watch this killer on cam.
37:49
Speaker 13: Hey there, I stuffed you go a little fast. You
37:52
Speaker 13: didn't realize this is a thirty five. It's thirty five,
37:55
Speaker 13: it is, yeah, so you go out forty yeah, forty
37:58
Speaker 13: three is what the radar said. Oh, yeah, you have
38:01
Speaker 13: your license, that registration insurance. Were you wearing your seat
38:13
Speaker 13: belt when I stopped you? No, that's no good, right,
38:21
Speaker 13: be honest with you. Yeah, I appreciate that.
38:24
Speaker 1: I mean, really, Chris McDonough, he's on his way to
38:29
Speaker 1: stalk the victims, to spy on him, sneak around, skulk
38:33
Speaker 1: in that tree line and watch them maybe inside undressing
38:36
Speaker 1: or whatever he tried to catch visually. And he's pulled
38:40
Speaker 1: over for exceeding speed limit, not wearing a seat belt.
38:43
Speaker 1: How relieved is he? He's planning a quadruple murder.
38:49
Speaker 3: Chris.
38:49
Speaker 11: Yeah, and Nancy and you and I stood right there
38:52
Speaker 11: and looked in the same vantage point he did. And
38:55
Speaker 11: so you know, it's important to understand if you're going
38:59
Speaker 11: to go sit down with you better understand the neighborhood he.
39:02
Speaker 6: Hangs out in.
39:04
Speaker 11: And when you have the disc attorney later on here
39:07
Speaker 11: not taking a shot at my colleague here, but when
39:10
Speaker 11: you have the DA, you know, coming and telling the
39:12
Speaker 11: world we're not really sure what his motive is. We're
39:15
Speaker 11: not sure if there's a sexual component to this, etc.
39:18
Speaker 6: Etc.
39:19
Speaker 3: Etc.
39:20
Speaker 11: Well, what are you sure of then in his totality
39:23
Speaker 11: because the public is sure they're connecting the dots that
39:28
Speaker 11: you know, there's information that this.
39:30
Speaker 6: Guy brutally did what he did, how he.
39:32
Speaker 11: Did it, and all of a sudden, the families becoming
39:37
Speaker 11: an attachment to the email.
39:40
Speaker 6: That oh, by the way, we're going to make a
39:41
Speaker 6: deal with the devil. Here. There's something wrong here.
39:44
Speaker 3: There's something definitely wrong here. You know, I want you
39:47
Speaker 3: to hear this too.
39:50
Speaker 1: So here he is, he's out stalking the victims, and
39:55
Speaker 1: we have him on video en routed to the murder
39:59
Speaker 1: saying he's pulled over for exceeding to speed limit, not
40:03
Speaker 1: by much, and he's worried about insurance.
40:10
Speaker 3: Listen, yeah, I just.
40:11
Speaker 13: Have a question about that. So in terms of what
40:12
Speaker 13: we want to got to scream and such, futs off,
40:14
Speaker 13: he's superford it to your insurances in the same way
40:17
Speaker 13: for this Still, I don't think so. I think it's
40:19
Speaker 13: only moving violations that go to insurance for things that
40:23
Speaker 13: might put points on your license. Yeah, I'm not one
40:26
Speaker 13: hundred percent sure, long block. What I'm like, Okay, could
40:31
Speaker 13: I get a phone number for you?
40:33
Speaker 10: Yeah?
40:33
Speaker 13: What we need to put it on the citation as
40:36
Speaker 13: it goes.
40:37
Speaker 6: To the court.
40:37
Speaker 1: And he's worried that his phone number is going to
40:39
Speaker 1: be on the citation. He ain't crazy delatory. He's asking
40:44
Speaker 1: about his driver's license, registration, insurance. He doesn't want his
40:49
Speaker 1: cell number on the police report. He is not crazy.
40:55
Speaker 1: No wonder they didn't put up the insanity defense because
40:58
Speaker 1: you play this here he is out talking the victims
41:01
Speaker 1: home and he's caught and he's perfectly sane.
41:06
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's perfectly saying.
41:07
Speaker 9: He's clearly logical and rational, and what he's wanting to
41:11
Speaker 9: do now, the behavior that he ends up doing is
41:14
Speaker 9: completely irrational. There's no reason for him to have done
41:18
Speaker 9: this other than he wanted to.
41:20
Speaker 6: That's the key.
41:21
Speaker 9: Everything was about him wanting to hurt these people. Everything
41:26
Speaker 9: is about how he it feels frustrated and just wants
41:31
Speaker 9: to erase these people as an exemplar of his overall
41:35
Speaker 9: level of frustration with what's going on with.
41:37
Speaker 1: Nje wanted more than that delatry. I think he wanted
41:41
Speaker 1: to have sex with the women, but he has been
41:44
Speaker 1: rejected by people so many times. I mean, whoa, whoa, wha,
41:48
Speaker 1: whoa whoa.
41:49
Speaker 3: Isn't it true?
41:50
Speaker 1: Dave mag joining me Crime Story's investigative reporter, that one
41:53
Speaker 1: woman met up with him via tender and he started
41:57
Speaker 1: asking her about what would be the worst way to
42:00
Speaker 1: be murdered.
42:02
Speaker 3: That was their last date. What happened, Dave.
42:05
Speaker 14: Mac They actually met through kender, like you said, and
42:07
Speaker 14: during the course of their date, the day shares a
42:11
Speaker 14: story of a murder that took place in her hometown.
42:14
Speaker 14: And as they talked further, Coberger actually asked her about
42:19
Speaker 14: what would the worst way to die be and I
42:23
Speaker 14: think she said knife, and he suggested out of the
42:26
Speaker 14: thin air, a k bar knife. Until this story came out, Nancy,
42:30
Speaker 14: a lot of us had no idea of what a
42:33
Speaker 14: k bar knife was.
42:35
Speaker 6: Why would anyone bring it up on a date.
42:37
Speaker 1: Let's let the defense attorney answer that. So he meets
42:39
Speaker 1: a tender date, he wants to have sex with her.
42:42
Speaker 13: So his.
42:45
Speaker 1: Lead up to that to woo her is talking about
42:49
Speaker 1: what would be the worst way for her to be murdered.
42:52
Speaker 3: She says by knife. He goes, oh, like a k
42:54
Speaker 3: bar what a co inky name.
42:56
Speaker 6: Greg Morris, No, you're right, and I think you know
42:58
Speaker 6: this is the unfortunate situation of society. People don't think
43:03
Speaker 6: someone acting weird or something. They just kind of forget
43:05
Speaker 6: about it. That's out of their life. But that's why
43:07
Speaker 6: I keep non emergency police agency number in my phone
43:10
Speaker 6: for my local community. No, that's not what I'm saying.
43:13
Speaker 6: You're sitting here talking what I'm saying, So let's talk
43:18
Speaker 6: about No. No, what I'm pointing out. That's a you're
43:24
Speaker 6: one hundred percent right, that's a bizarre way to talk
43:26
Speaker 6: to a woman you're on a date with. Right, that's unusual.
43:29
Speaker 6: He's a weird guy. We also have the experience they were.
43:32
Speaker 1: Pointed with him a man, Well you got it talking
43:36
Speaker 1: a week to the murder and he's talking to his
43:39
Speaker 1: sex target.
43:40
Speaker 6: Amount of k bar, Nancy. Any prosecutor could win this
43:45
Speaker 6: case like this is easy to win from the prosecution side.
43:48
Speaker 6: So what does that add to where we are today? Nothing.
43:51
Speaker 6: He would have been convicted. He committed the crimes. And
43:54
Speaker 6: my guess is, if you look through this guy's video history,
43:57
Speaker 6: you probably watched the documentary The Cheshire Murders. That's point
44:00
Speaker 6: because this is very reminiscent, except not as extreme because
44:03
Speaker 6: they let their victims on fire in Connecticut, and the
44:06
Speaker 6: Connecticut chose to bring the death penalty back for those
44:08
Speaker 6: two were Idaho chose not to follow it. In this
44:11
Speaker 6: case and give life sentences. But my guess is when
44:14
Speaker 6: he went to that strip club and he was the
44:16
Speaker 6: only person there, he was tempted to maybe act out then,
44:20
Speaker 6: but he got scared. That's why he didn't. He was
44:22
Speaker 6: leading up to what unfortunately happened to those young folks
44:27
Speaker 6: that he was convicted of. But there's a weirdident.
44:32
Speaker 1: Dilatory, did you hear more? Oh, I'm still hearing him.
44:37
Speaker 1: It's like a gnat. I can hear it, but I
44:39
Speaker 1: can't see it. Doctor Delatory. You hear more saying something
44:44
Speaker 1: about society blah blah blah blah, and then it's an
44:47
Speaker 1: unfortunate thing that happened. It's like they had an accident
44:50
Speaker 1: or something. This is not unfortunate. It's a quadruple premeditated,
44:57
Speaker 1: frenzied brutal pack.
45:00
Speaker 3: You can't explain it away.
45:03
Speaker 1: And the deal was done in secret and presented by
45:07
Speaker 1: email to the victims family. If the world had known
45:10
Speaker 1: the facts we're learning now, and I'm just this is
45:13
Speaker 1: a tip of the iceberg. No one would have agreed
45:16
Speaker 1: to this. There would be an uprise in an insurrection.
45:20
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think the idea is what we have to
45:22
Speaker 9: remember that there are no coincidences in murder investigations, right,
45:26
Speaker 9: these past behaviors are clearly indicative of what he is
45:31
Speaker 9: going on in his mind, because it's too specific. As
45:34
Speaker 9: for the deal happening in secret, I mean, in what
45:37
Speaker 9: other way can can the prosecutor kind of get this
45:39
Speaker 9: through if it's not in secret. I think the prosecutor
45:43
Speaker 9: knew that this was going to look poorly amongst the community,
45:48
Speaker 9: amongst society, and amongst the victims' families, so we needed
45:51
Speaker 9: to push it through in a way that he can
45:53
Speaker 9: kind of say, you know, listen, this was kind of
45:55
Speaker 9: spur of the moment. We needed to get this done.
45:57
Speaker 6: I think.
45:59
Speaker 9: I think in the US mind, he's probably trying to
46:01
Speaker 9: save the feelings of the family, but the family deserved
46:05
Speaker 9: their opportunity to be to have their voices heard.
46:07
Speaker 10: A court surviving room made Dylan Mortenson heard a person
46:11
Speaker 10: she believed was Kaylee screamed that somebody was in the house,
46:14
Speaker 10: then heard someone run down from the third floor to
46:17
Speaker 10: Xanna's room on the second floor, where she then heard
46:20
Speaker 10: what she called a commotion. Mortenson, here's an unfamiliar male
46:23
Speaker 10: voice say you're going to be fine. I'm going to
46:26
Speaker 10: help you.
46:27
Speaker 15: Dylan was in her room while hearing the commotion, only
46:30
Speaker 15: briefly opening up her door to see if she could
46:32
Speaker 15: tell what was happening. After hearing the man saying I'm
46:35
Speaker 15: going to help you, Dylan opens the door and sees Coburger,
46:38
Speaker 15: describing him to Officer Noon as as six feet tall, slim,
46:41
Speaker 15: build a black mask with bushy eyebrows.
46:44
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan joining US Professor Forensics and star on
46:48
Speaker 1: body Bags podcast with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, the
46:52
Speaker 1: prosecutor has come out and said the reason Kyburger didn't
46:57
Speaker 1: murder Dylan Mortenson is because he Kyburger was afraid, didn't
47:01
Speaker 1: he say.
47:02
Speaker 8: That Susan Hendricks absolutely afraid that maybe someone would see
47:06
Speaker 8: him because of all the commotion. But now that I
47:08
Speaker 8: hear the details, they are so lucky. I believe he
47:11
Speaker 8: would have done it in an instant, killed Bethany and
47:14
Speaker 8: Dylan if he saw them.
47:15
Speaker 3: Jo Scott, that's total bs. He just frendz.
47:18
Speaker 1: The attacked a young girl, stabbing here in the face
47:21
Speaker 1: with thirty times another one fifty times in total, slicing
47:26
Speaker 1: Ethan's jugular vein, asphyxiation, beating with the butt of a
47:30
Speaker 1: knife block just he's not afraid of Dylan Morton's So
47:34
Speaker 1: why is the prosecutor saying that.
47:36
Speaker 6: I don't know.
47:37
Speaker 7: I've given this some thought, Nancy. And one of the
47:39
Speaker 7: things that I kind of thought about, if he is
47:42
Speaker 7: targeting one of the two victims on the third floor,
47:45
Speaker 7: he goes in, he murders, slaughters both these two precious souls,
47:50
Speaker 7: then is he's on an adrenaline high at that moment,
47:54
Speaker 7: Tom And so after that adrenaline dump, he's coming down,
47:59
Speaker 7: coming down the stairs case at which time he encounters
48:03
Speaker 7: Xana and it's then his adrenaline he gets another adrenaline dump,
48:07
Speaker 7: chases her into the room. I think that he's completely exhausted.
48:11
Speaker 7: I think that probably he's got the thousand yards stare
48:14
Speaker 7: where he's just focused on trying to get the hell
48:17
Speaker 7: out of this place as quickly as he can. And
48:20
Speaker 7: you know, I don't know. I guess he has a
48:22
Speaker 7: survival instinct. He seems like he's more bent on trying
48:26
Speaker 7: to impress law enforcement at traffic stops. And then of
48:29
Speaker 7: course we hear about him trying to dominate the initial
48:33
Speaker 7: conversation that he had with the police. It's really he's
48:37
Speaker 7: kind of hard to figure out. But I don't think
48:39
Speaker 7: that he is truly hard to figure out. Again, I
48:42
Speaker 7: think he's like a reptile. I don't think he has
48:44
Speaker 7: a soul. Nancy, I really don't.
48:46
Speaker 1: We stop now to remember an American hero officer, Jacob
48:50
Speaker 1: Chaffin's Prestonburgh PD, just twenty eight years old, shot in
48:54
Speaker 1: the line of duty. Lead's behind grieving widow wife Hannah,
49:00
Speaker 1: A little girl, Paisley, American hero officer in Jacob Chaffin's
49:06
Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off good bye friend,