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Mark interviews author Mark Malkoff. · The Mark Simone Show

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  Speaker 1: It's more of Mark. Mark Simone on 710WOR. Hey, with
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  Speaker 1: us right now, Mark Malkoff, a great author, best-selling author now.
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  Speaker 1: He wrote the best book ever on Johnny Carson. It's
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  Speaker 1: a new book called Love Johnny Carson. It is the
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  Speaker 1: definitive book on Johnny Carson. If you know everything about
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  Speaker 1: him and you read this book, you'll learn 10,000 new things.
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  Speaker 1: It's called Love Johnny Carson. Get the book. Also, he
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  Speaker 1: does the Carson podcast. There's like 700 episodes. They're amazing.
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  Speaker 1: And now he's got a sub stack. You should sign
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  Speaker 1: up for this and read it every day. There's all
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  Speaker 1: kinds of fascinating Carson stories, new stuff on there. It's
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  Speaker 1: called Here's Johnny Carson on sub stack. Here's Johnny Carson
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  Speaker 1: on sub stack. And here's the guy behind it all,
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  Speaker 1: Mark Malkoff. How you doing?
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  Speaker 2: Mark, I'm doing great. Nice to talk to you, sir.
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  Speaker 1: Hey, I love this podcast and this podcast. Substack is great.
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  Speaker 1: Where do you come up with all this stuff?
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  Speaker 3: You know, talking to over 500 people or close to
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  Speaker 3: 500 people about Johnny Carson, you know, it's just everybody
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  Speaker 3: wanted to share stories that had never been told about Carson.
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  Speaker 3: And then on Substack, twice a week, we're putting out
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  Speaker 3: people's stories. I mean, people really miss this man. Conan
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  Speaker 3: O'Brien did an interview last week saying Johnny Carson was
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  Speaker 3: the most famous man in America for 30 years. And
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  Speaker 3: the impact that this guy had on the public and
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  Speaker 3: everything from comedy to fashion to business, I mean, is
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  Speaker 3: just measurable. And we're presenting new things about Carson from
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  Speaker 3: the people that knew him. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: People might, especially younger people today, Tonight Show's nice with
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  Speaker 1: Jimmy Fallon, but it doesn't mean much in the world.
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  Speaker 1: And Kimmel, small audience. Colbert, he had his little niche audience.
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  Speaker 1: They may not realize there was a time where everybody
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  Speaker 1: watched the Tonight Show. The country watched it.
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  Speaker 2: It really did.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, the sitcoms, I mean, you have to look
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  Speaker 3: at Roseanne is this housewife, Roseanne Barr, and suddenly she's
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  Speaker 3: on the number one show in America. I mean, the
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  Speaker 3: Carsey Warner people were watching Johnny Carson's Tonight Show, and
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  Speaker 3: that is how she got the gig. Freddie Prinze is
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  Speaker 3: this 19, 20-year-old kid that goes on Johnny Carson's show
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  Speaker 3: and within six months has the number one show in America,
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  Speaker 3: Chico and the Man.
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  Speaker 2: The power of Johnny Carson.
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  Speaker 3: The people that would go on Carson as unknowns, Ross Perot,
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  Speaker 3: the billionaire, no one knew who this guy was. Carson
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  Speaker 3: put him on in the late 60s, and suddenly he's
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  Speaker 3: thrust into the national spotlight. And Ross Perot, believe it
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  Speaker 3: or not, showed up to 30 Rock here in New
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  Speaker 3: York without any bodyguard, no security, and just showed up himself.
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  Speaker 1: Now, a big part of The Tonight Show was the
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  Speaker 1: new comedians, and Carson discovered hundreds of the biggest stars
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  Speaker 1: in the world. But when Jay Leno took over, he
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  Speaker 1: dropped that whole feature. Why?
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  Speaker 3: Jay Leno, unfortunately, his producer told him the ratings were
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  Speaker 3: going down with comedians. Music, the ratings go down, but comedians,
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  Speaker 3: their research, the NBC research said that it went down
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  Speaker 3: even more. Now, Johnny Carson refused to do that to comedians.
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  Speaker 3: He knew that his responsibility that he had with his
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  Speaker 3: show to comedians and was loyal to them. And for
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  Speaker 3: whatever reason, I don't know if that was accurate or not,
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  Speaker 3: but Jay was a company man with NBC and said
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  Speaker 3: every rating matters and the comedians. And fortunately we're, we're
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  Speaker 3: put pushed to the side for a long, long time.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, uh, Hey, everybody sign up for the sub stack.
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  Speaker 1: It's called here's Johnny Carson. Great sub stack. Get the book.
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  Speaker 1: Love Johnny Carson. You'll love this book. Uh, we were
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  Speaker 1: talking about this all week cause it's the 72nd anniversary
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  Speaker 1: of the tonight show. It was created 72 years ago
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  Speaker 1: by Steve Allen, who said when he started, he had
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  Speaker 1: no idea what would happen with it. Uh, But it
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  Speaker 1: was amazing, right, what he began.
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  Speaker 3: It really was. It was one of those things when
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  Speaker 3: he started the show, he did it, you know, for
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  Speaker 3: four or five years.
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  Speaker 2: And the notion that the show was even going to
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  Speaker 2: continue was in doubt. But, you know, Jack Parr doesn't
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  Speaker 2: end for whatever, four or five years. And that's what
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  Speaker 2: people thought. You do the show for four or five years.
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  Speaker 3: And the fact that this guy, Johnny Carson, for 30
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  Speaker 3: years dominated, number one, and turned this into a statistic,
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  Speaker 3: you know, Your phone is cracking up.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, sorry about that. Can you hear me now?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, much better. Sorry about that.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. Yeah, the fact that the show has been
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  Speaker 3: able to, yeah, for that many years succeed because of
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  Speaker 3: Johnny Carson for those 30 years that he was delivered
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  Speaker 3: at number one, the fact that the show is still
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  Speaker 3: going and in Johnny's original studio on the sixth floor
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  Speaker 3: of NBC and 16.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. So what was different about Steve Allen, what got
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  Speaker 1: everybody's attention before that, even the late night, whatever it was,
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  Speaker 1: was a variety show. They had sketches. They had a script.
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  Speaker 1: He would just come out and ad lib. Nobody had
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  Speaker 1: ever done that before.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 3: An hour and 45 minutes live from the glorious Hudson Theater.
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  Speaker 3: And they were doing the show live from 1115 till
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  Speaker 3: 1 a.m. And, yes, Steve Allen was a master going
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  Speaker 3: out on the street just with a camera and just
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  Speaker 3: interviewing people.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, the guy.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, just doing such innovative stuff. David Letterman, I mean,
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  Speaker 3: he gave Steve Allen all the attribution. He was basically
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  Speaker 3: copying a lot of Steve Allen's gags. I mean, the
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  Speaker 3: man was an absolute legend and should get the credit
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  Speaker 3: for creating the Tonight Show, the person behind the desk.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, what a master Steve Allen was.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Now, Steve Allen had a desk, and I think if
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  Speaker 1: it were guests, they'd bring out a chair behind the desk.
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  Speaker 1: But it was Jack Parr came along. He was the
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  Speaker 1: next Tonight Show host. He's the guy that came up
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  Speaker 1: with the desk, a chair, and a couch. He invented
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  Speaker 1: that and got rid of all the variety stuff, the
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  Speaker 1: music kind of stuff. And it was mostly a talk show.
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  Speaker 1: And Parr was a– have you been watching a lot
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  Speaker 1: of Jack Parr? He's on YouTube. Fascinating guy.
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  Speaker 2: It really is. I mean, he is a broadcaster.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, he was unbelievable in the– The controversy, I mean,
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  Speaker 3: that he was, these views and you would weep on air.
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  Speaker 2: And, you know, he's feuding with Ed Sullivan.
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  Speaker 3: You know, people like Jimmy Hoffa suing him. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: it was always in the news for going after people.
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  Speaker 3: It's such a fascinating case study, Jack Parr. You know,
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  Speaker 3: Dick Cavett told me Jack Parr's biggest regret. Parr told
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  Speaker 3: him was leaving the Tonight Show was the biggest regret
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  Speaker 3: of my life.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was so intense, and he got so emotional.
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  Speaker 1: It was. He couldn't keep it up much longer. And
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  Speaker 1: then Carson comes in, and at first everybody thought it
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  Speaker 1: was a bad choice because he was so casual and low-key.
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  Speaker 1: They didn't think he was big enough to fill up
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  Speaker 1: that show, right? And wasn't it true the first year
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  Speaker 1: or two they weren't sure he was going to make it?
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  Speaker 3: This guy was a game show host on ABC. People said,
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  Speaker 3: this guy's wrong, and we want controversy. And Johnny said, no,
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  Speaker 3: this is an entertainment show, and it really did take
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  Speaker 3: the public a little time for them to catch up
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  Speaker 3: in Carson's brilliance. And he takes over the Tonight Show
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  Speaker 3: in 62. And by 1964, he's breaking Judy Garland's record
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  Speaker 3: in Las Vegas. And he has cemented himself as a
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  Speaker 3: huge global superstar. I mean, people around everywhere wanted to
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  Speaker 3: go to the tonight show to wait for tickets. They
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  Speaker 3: would save up their money to go to Vegas on
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  Speaker 3: vacation to see Johnny. But still with NBC, he couldn't
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  Speaker 3: get a restroom, his own bathroom in his office at
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  Speaker 3: that point. And it took every year, he would get
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  Speaker 3: a little bit more momentum from NBC. And it took
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  Speaker 3: him almost nine years to finally get a window office.
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  Speaker 3: And this is Johnny Carson that finally get a bathroom
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  Speaker 3: and shower. Everything took a little bit of time, but
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  Speaker 3: I think the 1964 in Vegas at the Sahara, when
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  Speaker 3: he was getting paid, I mean, people couldn't believe the
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  Speaker 3: money that he was getting paid. That is what really,
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  Speaker 3: I think, got him over the top as an established
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  Speaker 3: star with NBC.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Now, a big thing was every year they would do
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  Speaker 1: the anniversary show with all the highlights, an hour and
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  Speaker 1: a half of incredible highlights. And we all know those highlights.
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  Speaker 1: Could you imagine a Jay Leno highlight show? Could there
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  Speaker 1: be such a thing?
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  Speaker 2: I don't think so.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, the only thing when I talk to people
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  Speaker 3: about Leno show that watched it, I asked for memorable moments.
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  Speaker 2: They've mentioned Hugh Grant and.
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  Speaker 3: There weren't a lot. I mean, he would do the
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  Speaker 3: jaywalking and those popular segments, but not really specific moments.
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  Speaker 2: Whereas you talk about Carson. I mean, it's just one
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  Speaker 2: thing after another.
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  Speaker 3: And I got to sit down with Ed Ames of
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  Speaker 3: all people in his nineties and in Los Angeles and
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  Speaker 3: talk about, you know, the famous Tomahawk throw.
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  Speaker 2: And it was one thing after another.
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  Speaker 3: And people all over the country send me their memories
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  Speaker 3: of watching Johnny a lot of times with their parents.
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  Speaker 3: And growing up, you've mentioned this, Johnny was kind of
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  Speaker 3: a role model.
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  Speaker 2: You watched him, this is how.
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  Speaker 3: Adults behave and dress and act. And yeah, I mean,
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  Speaker 3: the celebration of this man is the podcast, The Substack.
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  Speaker 3: And the Paley Center right now has his desk. You
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  Speaker 3: can go on 52nd Street to the Paley Center and
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  Speaker 3: sit at Johnny's actual desk.
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  Speaker 2: They have it out as an exhibit. I'm doing an
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  Speaker 2: event at the Paley Center.
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  Speaker 3: On Wednesday, November 6th at four o'clock, by the way,
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  Speaker 3: if anyone wants to come home to talk about Carson
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  Speaker 3: and the book with, with Ron Simon, the curator over there.
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  Speaker 3: But yeah, I love that they, they, they preserved, uh,
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  Speaker 3: Carson's desk. It's there for the public.
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  Speaker 1: People come see that presentation at the Paley center. Just
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  Speaker 1: go to the Paley center website. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: All you have to do is go there and get
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  Speaker 3: a ticket. Or if you remember, and you can go
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  Speaker 3: at four o'clock and I'll be, yeah. Anyone that wants
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  Speaker 3: me to sign books or say hi afterwards, but yeah,
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  Speaker 3: sit down at Johnny's desk.
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  Speaker 2: They have this, the chair, they have the couch.
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  Speaker 3: They have Johnny's actual swivel chair that he sat down.
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  Speaker 3: And this was in the Burbank years. And it's all
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  Speaker 3: on glorious display.
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  Speaker 2: Wow.
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  Speaker 1: And everybody, get the book. That's very important. If you
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  Speaker 1: haven't read it, you're going to love this book. Get
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  Speaker 1: the book. It's called Love Johnny Carson. It's the definitive
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  Speaker 1: book on Johnny Carson. Amazing stories. It's called Love Johnny Carson.
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  Speaker 1: Get the book. And the sub stack, just go sign
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  Speaker 1: up for that. It's called Here's Johnny Carson. a lot
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  Speaker 1: of new stuff that wasn't in the book here's johnny
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  Speaker 1: carson on sub stack and then are you doing some
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  Speaker 1: book signings around aren't you yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I'm gonna be doing something for the autumn garden society
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  Speaker 3: on on october 7th at 7 p.m that's going to
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  Speaker 3: be at the national opera center And the Autumn Garden Society,
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  Speaker 3: you can get tickets and I'm going to be signing
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  Speaker 3: books and talking about Carson and yeah, people all around
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  Speaker 3: the country. I mean, I was in Johnny's hometown. I
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  Speaker 3: got to go to his boyhood home and they had
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  Speaker 3: me sign their wall. They had me autograph the wall
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  Speaker 3: with a bunch of other people that had been through
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  Speaker 3: and just to go back to where Johnny was from
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  Speaker 3: in Norfolk and go to places like Chicago where Johnny
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  Speaker 3: spent time and did shows and stuff. People have Just really,
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  Speaker 3: really miss him. And just the fact, Mark, you knew
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  Speaker 3: Johnny Carson. You spent time with him. And you added
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  Speaker 3: so much to the book. I mean, you're all over
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  Speaker 3: the book, and I'm grateful for you. Yeah, I love
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  Speaker 3: hearing your stories. I mean, you worked with Steve Allen.
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  Speaker 3: You knew all these people.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I hate to say we're out of time, but
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  Speaker 1: everybody go get the book. It's called Love Johnny Carson.
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  Speaker 1: Get the book, Love Johnny Carson. It's on Amazon. And
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  Speaker 1: make sure you follow the Substack. Here's Johnny Carson on Substack.
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  Speaker 1: We'll do it again soon. Mark Malkoff, thanks for being
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  Speaker 1: with us. Thanks, Mark.
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  Speaker 2: Really good talking to you, sir.
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  Speaker 1: Take care. Take care. Don't forget, I'm here three hours
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  Speaker 1: a day now. It's 9 to noon every day, three hours. And,
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  Speaker 1: of course, before me, 6 to 9, it's Curtis Sliwa
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  Speaker 1: and Larry Menti on 710WOR.