Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #473 Teaching Your Children How to Say No

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#473 Teaching Your Children How to Say No · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
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  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers Now.
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  Speaker 2: It was very daunting for me to be a part
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  Speaker 2: of that process because I had never really tested the
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  Speaker 2: waters of having a voice and been willing to stand
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  Speaker 2: by my own convictions.
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  Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
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  Speaker 1: and dad.
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  Speaker 3: So I have a question for you, Kylie, missus Happy Families.
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  Speaker 3: Did you ever say no to your parents? I mean,
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  Speaker 3: I have a feeling. I know how you're going to
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  Speaker 3: answer this, but were you Were you an insubordinate child?
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  Speaker 4: Were you a rebel?
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  Speaker 2: No, my Honnie, I was not.
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  Speaker 3: You were the compliant kind, weren't you most of the time?
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  Speaker 2: Yes?
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  Speaker 3: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colslan here with my wife
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  Speaker 3: Cylie under our six kids on the founder of Happy
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  Speaker 3: Families dot com. Dot you today are really important conversation
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  Speaker 3: that I think is going to make a difference in
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  Speaker 3: every family. And boy are boys at provocative and challenging
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  Speaker 3: to deal with. Why kids who talk back grow up
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  Speaker 3: to be better adults. Why we want our kids to
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  Speaker 3: say no more. This is from an article at your
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  Speaker 3: Tango dot com. Will link to the article in the
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  Speaker 3: show notes, but it really struck a chord for me.
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  Speaker 3: And I was thinking about you, Kylie, and your personality,
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  Speaker 3: the way you've been raised, and I was thinking about me.
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  Speaker 3: Do you think that I was the kind of kid
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  Speaker 3: who said no to my parents very often?
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  Speaker 2: I'm sure you have a bajillion stories sometimes that you
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  Speaker 2: said no?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so much.
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  Speaker 3: We had a lot of conflict in our home though,
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  Speaker 3: because my parents didn't respond well to my nose. But
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  Speaker 3: I'm the kind of guy who really prizes his autonomy
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  Speaker 3: and wants things to be done my way. Why is
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  Speaker 3: it do you think, Kylie, that you didn't say no
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  Speaker 3: very often? Why were you not the kid that talked back,
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  Speaker 3: that was willing to push against the boundaries?
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  Speaker 4: Why are we willing to be compliant?
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  Speaker 2: I learned at a very early age to please people. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I was seen and heard and valued as long as
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  Speaker 2: I was making others happy.
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  Speaker 3: And what happened if you did say though, Like, what
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  Speaker 3: was the level of discomfort in the home? If you
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  Speaker 3: turned around to your parents and showed a sense that
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  Speaker 3: you did not feel good about what they were asking
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  Speaker 3: you to do or what the circumstances were.
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  Speaker 2: I would have been grounded if I had a particularly
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  Speaker 2: strong viewpoint. I might have been smacked right right privileges
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  Speaker 2: wherewith hell yep yep.
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  Speaker 3: In other words, if you want to say no to us,
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  Speaker 3: we're going to exert our power over you, and we're
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  Speaker 3: going to make you compliant because we know what's best
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  Speaker 3: for you, and you just sit there and do as
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  Speaker 3: you're told.
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  Speaker 4: That was the kind of approach. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 3: And so in my home, we did not have what
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  Speaker 3: I would call healthy conflict styles in our home. But
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  Speaker 3: my mum in particular and my dad somewhat, they both
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  Speaker 3: had this attitude that, well, you've got to figure it out,
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  Speaker 3: you've got to talk it through. You've got to express
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  Speaker 3: what's going on. If you don't want to do something,
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  Speaker 3: express it, argue for it, make your case. Now, we
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  Speaker 3: didn't do it in a healthy way, like I said,
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  Speaker 3: in our home, you and I do it in I think,
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  Speaker 3: usually a much more effective way. And those words are
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  Speaker 3: sort of the things that I would say rather than
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  Speaker 3: what my parents would say. But we'll say to their kids,
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  Speaker 3: if you don't want to do it, this is a discussion,
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  Speaker 3: not a decision. Make your case, Prove to us that
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  Speaker 3: we can trust you to do that thing or prove
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  Speaker 3: to us that we're wrong here in a way that's
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  Speaker 3: respectful and kind.
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  Speaker 4: Tell us why you're saying no, so that it counts.
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  Speaker 4: Is that reasonable?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. As I was reading the article, a quote stood
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  Speaker 2: out to me by psychologist Kelly Flanagan. She said, the
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  Speaker 2: inability to say no, the inability to set boundaries, is
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  Speaker 2: one of the most common insidious causes of human suffering.
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  Speaker 4: What a great quote, What a great quote.
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  Speaker 3: When we can't say no, when we don't set boundaries,
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  Speaker 3: we actually potentially inflict suffering on ourselves or allow others
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  Speaker 3: to inflict it on us.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. And as I've looked at of my own upbringing
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  Speaker 2: and then coming into your family where everybody has an opinion.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, which can be tea and tiresome. Let's be honest, it.
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  Speaker 2: Was very daunting for me to be a part of
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  Speaker 2: that process because I had never really tested the waters
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  Speaker 2: of having a voice and been willing to stand by
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  Speaker 2: my own convictions.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: In fact, it's hard to even know what your convictions
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  Speaker 3: are when you're not given the opportunity to explore them
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  Speaker 3: and express them. Another psychologist, Joseph Allen, says, we tell
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  Speaker 3: parents to think of those arguments, not as a nuisance,
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  Speaker 3: but as.
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  Speaker 4: A critical training ground.
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  Speaker 3: And that's something that I really want to get across
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  Speaker 3: in this conversation in this podcast episode today, is that
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  Speaker 3: when your children say no to you, this is something
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  Speaker 3: that we want to genuinely and I mean genuinely be
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  Speaker 3: grateful for and be delighted about. But our job as
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  Speaker 3: parents is to teach our children how to say no,
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  Speaker 3: to teach them how to push back effectively so that
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  Speaker 3: we can progress the conversation.
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  Speaker 4: We're going to talk about how to do that right
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  Speaker 4: after the break. It's the Happy Families podcast.
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  Speaker 5: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having
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  Speaker 5: to feel bad or in trouble. The dos and don'ts
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  Speaker 5: of disciplined as a webinar to help parents set limits
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  Speaker 5: with love, compassion and humanity. Find it now at Happy
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  Speaker 5: families dot com dot au slash shop.
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  Speaker 2: It's the Happy Famili's podcast, the podcast for the time
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  Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now And I'm wondering
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  Speaker 2: how do we navigate this space where our children have
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  Speaker 2: a desire to voice their opinions and as parents we
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  Speaker 2: often just want compliance.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, And I think the idea behind the
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  Speaker 3: idea here that is, we've got this idea that children
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  Speaker 3: and children shouldn't be saying no to us, that they
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  Speaker 3: should just do as they're told. That's the standard parenting line, right,
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  Speaker 3: The kids have got to do as they're told because I'm.
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  Speaker 4: The parent and I know better.
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  Speaker 3: But what underlies that is a fundamental I think if
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  Speaker 3: you look at the idea behind that idea, the idea
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  Speaker 3: driving parents believing that they've got to control their kids,
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  Speaker 3: the kids I'm not allowed to say no, they're not
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  Speaker 3: allowed to well, is a fundamental mistrust in children's ability
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  Speaker 3: to make safe, healthy, wise decisions for themselves. If we
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  Speaker 3: believe that children are capable of finding answers, answers that
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  Speaker 3: are healthy, answers.
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  Speaker 4: That are genuinely good.
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  Speaker 3: If we believe that they can find those answers, then
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  Speaker 3: when they push back against our commandments, our rules, our directives,
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  Speaker 3: our ultimatums from on high, when they push back against
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  Speaker 3: that sort of stuff, we're going to do that thing
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  Speaker 3: that I always talk about.
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  Speaker 4: We're going to get curious, not furious. We're going to say, wow,
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  Speaker 4: you actually you don't like what I just had to say.
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  Speaker 4: Why is that?
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  Speaker 3: Let's talk this over. When we get curious. Something extraordinary
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  Speaker 3: I think happens. We start to raise children who learn
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  Speaker 3: how to articulate a particular position to defend their ideas
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  Speaker 3: and actually become more effective as humans as a result,
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  Speaker 3: and also less compliant to people who might push them
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  Speaker 3: around otherwise.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. I think as parents, we're all desperate
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  Speaker 2: for the same thing. We want our kids to be
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  Speaker 2: able to master skills that will allow them to stand
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  Speaker 2: up for themselves and to stand against peer pressure or
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  Speaker 2: dangerous situations that they might find themselves in. But I
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  Speaker 2: don't think we often recognize the importance we play in
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  Speaker 2: that skill set. Helping them to learn that only comes
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  Speaker 2: as they feel safe to actually have a voice and
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  Speaker 2: to be able to practice voicing those opinions in an
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  Speaker 2: environment where they know they'll be heard.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah. I love that.
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  Speaker 3: There's the meme that's been doing the rounds for like
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  Speaker 3: a decade or something. It says, I want my children
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  Speaker 3: to be independent and head strong people, just not while
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  Speaker 3: I'm raising them. The reality is, if we don't teach
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  Speaker 3: them now to have these conversations, they're not going to
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  Speaker 3: be able to do it later on.
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  Speaker 4: They've got to be able to do it safely with us.
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  Speaker 4: What do you wish had.
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  Speaker 3: Happened when you were raised by your parents that could
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  Speaker 3: have helped you to work through this little bit of
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  Speaker 3: a challenging situation where you just didn't feel like you
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  Speaker 3: could rebel.
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  Speaker 2: We've talked about this before on the podcast, and as
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  Speaker 2: we've talked today, just I guess it's refreshed my memory
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  Speaker 2: of those feelings of mistrust that I felt my parents
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  Speaker 2: had for me. They promised me that that wasn't the
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  Speaker 2: case at all, but that's how I was left feeling
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  Speaker 2: that they didn't count my ability to make my own
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  Speaker 2: choices and to make good choices for myself and for
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  Speaker 2: those around me. And I know that, you know, as
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  Speaker 2: our children have grown up, my parents in particular have
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  Speaker 2: really struggled because our children are a lot more outspoken
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  Speaker 2: than I was ever raised to me, and yet because
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  Speaker 2: of the different I guess emotions and feelings I had
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  Speaker 2: growing up, and even some experiences that I found myself
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  Speaker 2: in that you would hope your children would never find
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  Speaker 2: themselves in. I just hope and pray that the conversations
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  Speaker 2: we're having with our children allow them to feel comfortable
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  Speaker 2: enough to have, you know, to hold strong to those
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  Speaker 2: convictions when push comes to shove.
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  Speaker 3: Let's talk about a couple of things that we can
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  Speaker 3: say to our children so that they can be insubordinate
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  Speaker 3: in healthy, positive ways, Because the reality is, no one
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  Speaker 3: likes a smart, loudmouth child who's just rude and disrespectful
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  Speaker 3: as they express their opinion.
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  Speaker 4: Contrary to the adults in the room.
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  Speaker 3: Next time you hear your child respond in a way
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  Speaker 3: that's clumsy, awkward, and frankly disrespectful. Instead of saying, don't
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  Speaker 3: you dare talk to me like that, which is what
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  Speaker 3: many parents will respond with, I think that it's helpful
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  Speaker 3: to say something like, do you have a different way
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  Speaker 3: of saying that?
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  Speaker 4: In fact, something that I've said to our kids many times.
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  Speaker 3: You may have heard me say it, Kylie is I'm
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  Speaker 3: going to pretend that you didn't say what you just
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  Speaker 3: said to me the way you said it and give
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  Speaker 3: you another chance to let me know how you're feeling
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  Speaker 3: in a more respectful way.
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  Speaker 4: Now.
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  Speaker 3: I know that sort of sounds a bit clunky, and
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  Speaker 3: there's a whole lot to it, but you get the
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  Speaker 3: idea you're saying to your kids.
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  Speaker 4: I get it.
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  Speaker 3: I know you're upset, but let's figure out a better
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  Speaker 3: way to express our discontent end than the way that
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  Speaker 3: you did it instead of because I said so.
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  Speaker 4: I think that's great to say, like if you say
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  Speaker 4: to the kids, I want you to do this, why
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  Speaker 4: do I have to do it?
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  Speaker 3: Instead of because I said so, I think that it's
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  Speaker 3: really helpful to say you'd really rather not do it,
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  Speaker 3: wouldn't you? Why do you think that I'm asking you
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  Speaker 3: to do it? In fact, I just had this happen
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  Speaker 3: the other day with one of our kids, Kylie, because
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  Speaker 3: the house is for sale and we had an open
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  Speaker 3: house coming up, and she was struggling to get the
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  Speaker 3: house clean, and she was complaining and winging and oh,
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  Speaker 3: why do I have.
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  Speaker 4: To It's not fair?
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  Speaker 3: And I said to it, it sounds like you're really
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  Speaker 3: upset that I'm asking you to tidy up your bedroom.
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  Speaker 3: It sounds like it's a basic human right to have
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  Speaker 3: a mess your bedroom the way the way you seem
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  Speaker 3: to feel about it, And she.
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  Speaker 4: Said, I just you're always on my case about it.
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  Speaker 3: I said, I wonder if there's a better way that
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  Speaker 3: we can both work out how to figure this out
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  Speaker 3: together then, And it's really about being open to the
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  Speaker 3: fact that they do have preferences, acknowledging that they would
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  Speaker 3: rather things not be like that, and then saying, well,
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  Speaker 3: let's problem solve. This house still needs to be tidy.
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  Speaker 3: How can we figure this out in a way that
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  Speaker 3: we can both feel good about it? So I'm not
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  Speaker 3: on your back and you're not fighting with me. And
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  Speaker 3: there's just something about that openness to them talking back
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  Speaker 3: to you, letting them have a voice, something about that
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  Speaker 3: that usually leads to them becoming more respectful if we
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  Speaker 3: teach them how in of our thoughts.
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  Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting yesterday we talked about toddler tantrums, which
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  Speaker 2: we acknowledge are not limited to toddlers, but we talked
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  Speaker 2: about this key point of compassion, yes, and I think
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  Speaker 2: it ties in beautifully with today's conversation. Our kids have
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  Speaker 2: their own thoughts, their own feelings, and their own ideas,
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  Speaker 2: and they need to practice making decisions for themselves and
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  Speaker 2: negotiating for what they want, even if what they want
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  Speaker 2: seems absurd or so unimportant to us. And if we
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  Speaker 2: can come into the conversation with compassion and recognize that
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  Speaker 2: it's actually not all about us. This is about us
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  Speaker 2: helping grow these healthy, competent and capable children into adults
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  Speaker 2: who will just do brilliant things with their lives. It's
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  Speaker 2: going to mean that every conversation we have with them,
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  Speaker 2: regardless how cunky they are, will have a different tone
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  Speaker 2: to it because we've come to the table with that compassion.
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  Speaker 4: Kylie.
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  Speaker 3: I think there's also a serious long term side to this,
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  Speaker 3: and I'll just mention it briefly before we wrap up,
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  Speaker 3: and that is, if our children don't feel safe saying
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  Speaker 3: no to us, who else are they going to have
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  Speaker 3: a hard time saying no to the kid that wants
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  Speaker 3: them to steal something from the shop down the road,
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  Speaker 3: the person who's trying to apply them.
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  Speaker 4: With alcohol or other drugs at the party.
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  Speaker 3: Or who's trying to pressure them into some sort of
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  Speaker 3: physical intimate act. They don't know how to say no.
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  Speaker 3: They don't want to say no. They're afraid of saying no.
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  Speaker 3: They feel like they have to please the people around them.
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  Speaker 3: They don't have the confidence to say no. The ability
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  Speaker 3: to say no is powerful. I want to go back
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  Speaker 3: to that quote you read before from Kelly Flanagan, the
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  Speaker 3: psychologist who said the inability to say no is one
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  Speaker 3: of the most common insidious causes of human suffering. What
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  Speaker 3: an important quote, what a great idea, And hopefully as
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  Speaker 3: a result of this podcast, we've got a whole lot
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  Speaker 3: of parents who are going to respond better to their
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  Speaker 3: kids next time the kids say no. The Happy Families
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  Speaker 3: podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media, with
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: Craig Bruce as our executive producer. If you'd like morefo
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: about this article that we found from your Tango dot com,
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: you'll find it in the show notes. If you're enjoying
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: the podcast, please leave us a five star rating and
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: reviews so that other people can have it pushed into
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: their suggested podcast lists. Maybe they can find out how
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: to make their family happier as well. All the details
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: for the resources and the ways that we can help
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: make a difference in your family are at happy families
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: dot com dot au.