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Transcript

What I've Learnt - Winter Series Gems (July) (2022) · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, welcome to the Weatherflight Podcast.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Luke, one of the producers of the show.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: As a producer, I love my work and helping Deborah and our team share so many wonderful stories.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: From food to fashion and art to music, we've got you covered.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: In this episode, we will be looking at the best moments from this past July.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: So sit back and enjoy.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_04: She's an Australian journalist, author, and media commentator, and from 2006 until 2011, King presented Mornings on ABC Radio Brisbane.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_04: Well, from social media, Snapchat, surgery, and school formals, her new book is a fascinating insight into the challenges facing a modern-day teenager.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_04: And I know, I mean, I have three children myself, and I also am surrounded by a lot of um parents, obviously, and I've seen the challenges and the transition for a lot of people, particularly these girls, who just, as you say, there's somehow, there seems a sense of isolation that develops.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, referring to the 14-year-old, yes, but the 17-year-old, which is your present book and focus, the L Platers book, is really interesting because I think we're not as prepared for what, because they're about to go out into the big world, because they're on the cusp, and often there's that sort of rite of passage, the gap here.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_04: Well, for example, most of them are doing it at 20 now.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_04: I know my son certainly is, because obviously there was almost like a hiatus of two years where they got lost, but that's a COVID-related issue.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_04: But it probably exaggerates what is an already complex transitional time.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, what a clever question.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: I I think that's right.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I think there's two causes.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, university staff are saying they're seeing 18-year-olds act more like 15-year-olds.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: And the reason is two things.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: One is, as you said, COVID.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: Think of what you did when you were 16.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: Think of the mistakes you made, the misjudgments.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: And our children have not been allowed to do that because uncertainty has killed so many of those opportunities from things they would have to navigate at parties to friendship to a whole lot of stuff, even school excursions.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so they they haven't been able to practice being an adult.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: That's the first thing.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: The second thing I think is school has become harder, more academic, more competitive, particularly private and independent schools are wanting to top those league tables.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: And as a result of that, our children's anxiety is so strong that they that is their focus.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: They're giving up everything from part-time jobs to sport to friendships.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: Some have got the ATAR figure, their ranking figure, painted on the ceiling of their bedroom wall.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: And they've narrowed their life to this one number that you and I know will not dictate their success.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I often say that, you know, to various, you know, kids that I come across.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_04: It just doesn't define you.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_04: Now, why have we got a system that is set up?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it is really toxic to have a system that is set up with expectation that almost is impossible to meet.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_04: And as you say, corrals these kids into this sort of we didn't even have that.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it was really, you know, yes, you wanted to do well, but it wasn't all defining.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_04: For some reason, the system has become very and it paralyzes these kids.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_04: So they're either, as you say, sort of stuck, I mean, separate to COVID, even just before COVID.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that's right.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think I like to think that after this research, and I I sought the counsel of 1,000 girls aged 16, 17, and 18, that there is this new disease of comparison, and they don't compare themselves in a sense, um, they wish their peers the best, but they are brutal in their own self-judgment.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: So even at the age of 10, I found that girls were deciding not to do science in high school.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: If they got six out of 10 and their friends got nine out of 10, they decided I'm not a science girl.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: Likewise, I think when they're 15 and 16, their social media is just wallpaper, comparison with everything from clothes to body shape to hair colour to eyes.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: And as a result of that, they are always going to compare upwards, richer, thinner, prettier, and that has had a huge impact on our girls.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_04: And tell me, do you think this is new?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_04: There was always an element of that.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_04: In fact, I recently caught up with some old school friends and we meet regularly, and oh, we were laughing and you know about the things that you think matter at that time.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_04: But my point is, do you think it's it's changed, or do you think it's always been there?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's just an exaggerated form now.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's absolutely changed.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and it's exaggerated.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: If you just think, if I can give you one example, if you're driving your 14 or 15-year-old to school tomorrow morning, you might see a billboard of a beautiful woman dressed scantily at the beach.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: You can say to your daughter, that's fake.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's not a real picture, that's not a real, real beach.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: And she will understand that.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: But now on social media, just let me give you the example of dark ads, where our children are receiving ads based on what their searches are, their digital traces, but they only appear for a second and they disappear.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: So you don't know what your daughter's seeing, you don't know what your son's seeing.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_03: University researchers said to me in Nell Platers, they can't even capture these ads to research them.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_03: And what my daughter is getting is different from what your son is getting.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's so tailored to their individual searching.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_03: So, how can we talk to our children about that?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: How can we give them the critical thinking skills?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I think one girl said to me, of course we know it's fake.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: We're not dumb, we know it's fake, but when it's there every time you turn on your phone, it's really hard not to compare yourself.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: One school principal said to me, What she's seeing is almost a generational difference between an 18-year-old and a 10-year-old, that the world has changed so much in those eight years that a big sister might almost be a generation older than her 10-year-old sister.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: And when you just think of the consequences of that, well, I can observe that myself.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_04: I can see that with certain gaps.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_04: The difference between, let's say, my 27-year-old and some of the 18-year-olds is quite dramatic in terms of what their exposure is.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_04: In particular, I think what concerns me, and I mean, I know you actually in your book, you refer to, you know, imagine a thousand ten girls in one room and you ask one question, what's the biggest challenge you face?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_04: And 700 of them give the same answer, my mental health.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of, you know, it's it's quite disturbing, but it's not surprising when you see how inundated they are by things that you've just referenced.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um, in particular, I suppose the the issues of body image, which I've talked on this podcast a lot about with various models and people in the industry, the pressure on these girls, which comes over social media to be thin and the thin spiration, and as you say, the dark web where there's sort of flashes or there's there's pop-ups, if you like.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_04: How do we how do we equip them?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's almost so normalized.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: You and I never had that.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we didn't have any of those.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I was even thinking, you know, I'd never heard of these two forms of disordered eating, like eating disorders, one called chewing and spitting, where girls are chewing something and then getting rid of it, and the other is orthorexia, which may start with a green smoothie and then they only put into their mouths something that's pure.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: So they have no sugar, preservatives, wheat, gluten, and it goes, they narrow and narrow.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'd never heard of that.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's a really difficult space for parents too, because even when you say your 27-year-old son, I was talking to someone recently who has uh a child about the same age.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's actually a girl.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: She's actually a 27-year-old girl.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: Her speech is slower and better than someone who may be seven or eight years younger because they're used to just writing in acronyms, um, texting, and they speak so fast because that's their language, that if you line up a 27-year-old and an 18-year-old, you can actually see when they talk, when they communicate the influence of that smartphone.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_04: So it's sort of bite size, isn't it?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's everything's in bite size in terms of communication.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_04: But I think the other thing is there's also then this sort of huge, and whether this is relevant or not, there's a huge also overlay of well, there's a lot of people on ADHD medication, there's a lot of these young girls being put on, you know, a whole raft of things to sort of tame their brain, some of which is very valid and important because obviously there are some that need it.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_04: But I wonder if the like, I don't know if you are somebody who's on your phone a lot, I'm on it reasonably, but obviously I'm a mature woman and so are you.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_04: But can you imagine what that's doing to your brain if it's incessant and it's constant and it's distracting from absolutely everything.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: And the girls know that.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: I asked the 1,000 of them, how often are you on your mobile phone?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_03: And don't count school because some may use it in class.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: So during the week it's an average of three hours.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: This is after school.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: On the weekend, it's more.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, so describe your relationship with it.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: And they said, toxic, obsessive, unkind, horrible.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: They all had these adjectives to describe their relationship, but the pull, the lure of it was so strong they couldn't quite give it up.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember one uh principal in Adelaide said to me, even if they don't touch it for the first 10 minutes of the morning, it actually gets them in a better frame because they're not reaching and looking for it straight away.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: But we I've found in this that we even probably have to teach them that at 17 because, and I know in my family, my eldest lives away at a university college, so last year we practiced allowing her to have the phone in her room.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: Seems ridiculous at 17, but I knew at college it would always be in her room because that's all she has.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so we went bit by bit to ensure that she wasn't just having it till the last minute and then picking it up the next morning.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we've handheld our children, particularly in schools perhaps, to the point where they are graduating, and I suspect boys too, without those skills that you and I had, and I don't just mean judgment skills, I mean things like how to get a tax file number, having done a first day course, um, being enrolled to vote, um having knowing what superannuation is.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: I spoke to girls who were 17 who had never caught public transport.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: And when I spoke to university tutors about how they could see the difference between those girls they thought would cope as 18-year-olds and those who would struggle, they said they could see it the moment they walked in.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: And it was the amount of confidence that they held within themselves.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I went home thinking that's a really good lesson for me.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we kind of sometimes think things like that aren't tested so they can develop those eventually.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I think those soft skills of confidence and teamwork and kindness and being able to communicate what you and I are doing are the things that actually determine how far you go in life, aren't they?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: Not what you do in a physics exam.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_04: No, it's and it's so in.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, my kids are are older now, but it is really quite so evident and so clear that something between the ages that you've referred to is going very awry.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_04: And the question is, you know, how do we fix it?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: How do we equip our kids as you've outlined?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_04: But also, you know, you talk also about just looking at some of these interesting this research, you know, L Platers explores gender identity and and those aspects, which is another massive issue, uh, because obviously there are so many versions and variations that are emerging.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_04: I actually said to my daughter the other day, we were talking, this is my 22-year-old, and we're talking about I feel like everything's a choice.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_04: There is just so much to choose from that it's almost overwhelming for these girls and these and boys.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's just like this endless smorgasbord of choice.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_04: Now, while that's great, and I think it's it's really um liberating on one level, it is also really confusing for them.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: You are spot on.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I actually spoke to a social demographer, Mark McCrindle, who almost said that.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: He said, in the smorgasboard of life, our teens are grazers.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: They can have anything from everywhere, they want to be so inclusive.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, but inclusive to what?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: To what end?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: To what purpose?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you are so right that some are just frozen in fear, fear of choosing the wrong course, the wrong partner, the wrong way.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: And they don't think, well, I can just change, I can turn the corner and go a different way.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: And part of that maybe come from choices, some from privilege, some from the way our schools, I think, um, and I'm not talking against this, but there is a level of hand holding happening where you know a student can hand in five drafts of an assignment.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know, teachers are on the lookout for the child who isn't coping.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they're told what to study when in 40-minute chunks.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: Their homework is corrected, they're given homework.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: Then they stop school.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: No one ever tells them to put their hand up to go to the toilet again.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: And all of a sudden, they're lost.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: No one's waking them up, no one's getting them to lectures on time, no one tells them what's required at work.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, one girl told me how she went and handed a draft into a university tutorer and who looked at it and he said, This looks like a draft.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: And she said, Yeah.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, Oh, sweetie, I think I might wait for the final copy.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: And she was devastated.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: But I think when we are actually handhelding them, maybe parentally too, to the point where we're not allowing them to fail.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_04: Like if we I do agree with you, and I think it's a really important point because they get to university somewhat ill-equipped, and then the other thing that's happening is it's filtering through to certain aspects of university where they can everything's negotiable.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_04: I think everyone has a right to negotiate what is reasonable, and life is actually the ability to negotiate.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_04: But when everything's negotiable, from how long you sit your exam or whether you sit it in a certain way or in a certain space or at a certain time, or you have it is very interesting to just see this sort of avalanche of options, which by all sort of the liberals of which I am one, small L liberal, I support choice in every sense.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_04: But I think where we've we've almost overcorrected a little bit, and we have to make sure that our kids also know there are limits, there are restrictions, and that it's okay to choose a path and then choose another one, but give it a good shot, you know.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_03: And and to give them the skills to be able to make good choices.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_04: Correct.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_04: As best as that can be done.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes, if it's not a good choice, as you say, failing is where we learn the most often.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_04: Another very important point that you um you raise is a teen girl's liver is very different to a teen boy's liver.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_04: This I found this interesting.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_04: It's not fully developed until the early 20s, and that has significant consequences.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_04: Girls are more affected by alcohol and for longer.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_04: Experts have lists of stories where girls have lost their licenses the day after they were drinking.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_04: They really do have to be super careful.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_04: So talk to me about that because I don't think that's well known, actually.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: No, well, I didn't know it either, to be honest.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and Paul Dillon is just an expert in this area based in Sydney, and he not long ago gave a talk, and a mother then said, Look, let me take you through a liver ward at a hospital.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: She was a specialist, and as she did it, she said, I forget her exact words, but they're words along the lines of, This used to be full of old men, we're now seeing young women.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: And it's women with liver damage.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: And Paul Dylan said, when he goes into a school, girls want to be equal.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: They want to be able to say they can drink a boy under a table.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, That's true, they might be able to, but what's the response in their liver?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: Because their enzymes are different, their size of their liver, the development is different, and it means that their ability to process alcohol generally is lower than that of a male equivalent.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: Often they have a smaller body weight as well.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, the other thing is none of them ever ask, well, how does alcohol mix with the pill or my anxiety medication or my ADHD medication?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, you know, they've been on this medication often, boys and girls, for years, and then they think, well, the next step, 18, is a party, and there's no conversation around the mixing of things.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I hadn't thought of that as an issue, too, but he said it's it's something that every parent should be alert to.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you know that saying, dance as if nobody is watching.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I don't know if I could actually dance with anyone watching, but the truth of the matter is my experience at a dance class with Daniel Jamie, who is going to join me on the What I've Learned podcast in a few moments, has really been cathartic and therapeutic.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_04: You know, he created Baylor as a result of a drastic change in his life.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um, he was coming from the other side of the world with no expectations, no safety net, no English, or people who could help him find his way on the side of the planet.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_04: He was coming from Brazil and Colombia, and the truth is he'd been dancing there since he was 14, but he had to find a way to communicate when he got here, and Baylor became the only way that he could with people he could express his passion, personality, and the best way to share what he loves most, which is dance and fitness.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm really happy that he's joining me on the podcast.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_04: He's also taking me on my own personal journey, um, giving me some private training and teaching me about how to actually move, not quite like JLo in her new documentary, but certainly aiming for the stars, I might say.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: So, welcome to the What I've Learned podcast and so thrilled to have Daniel join me to have a chat about dance fitness and looking after both body and soul.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me a little bit about when you were growing up, what incentivized you to go on this journey?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_04: Talk to me a little bit about your mom.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_04: I want to hear a little bit about right.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so first of all, one of the things that I remember um a lot from my mom and my dad that they always said was that they fell in love dancing.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: So they used to dance together.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not professionally, but they used to love dancing together.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um they actually used to win competitions of dancing and everything else.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: So my my my dad gave me the gift of uh music, yeah, to listen to music very well in a specific way that I actually transformed music into uh self-expression, which is one of the things that we all uh want to have in our lives.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: And my mom gave me the whole like you know, expression of dancing and how to feel the music more.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I started back then.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I my first class was at the age of 14.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was started teaching.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was trying to help my mom.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my mom was a single mom, obviously.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, my master at that time said, Daniel, can you teach uh my class?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was doing, you know, and I was like, Me?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, cool, well, okay.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Why, why me?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's like yeah, because you you know, you know all the Kerubbies and and everyone loves it in here.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like okay.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so I was in one of the gyms and I came to the class and I was like, you know, going off for it.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone at the end was like, Oh my god, that was so good, so it was amazing.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Wow, thank you so much.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, my my my teacher said to me, Hey, I heard that the girls didn't miss me.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Oh, really?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because they had so much fun with you and they actually wanted to keep teaching.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, what meat?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, anyway.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: So later on, very young, very young, yeah.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then my mom's like, What were where were you?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh mom, I was teaching a class.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, What do you teaching?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: When do you start working?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, since I gave this opportunity, and um I took it and then they loved it.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: So oh amazing.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I started working on the gyms, and since then I started like developing my own career as a dance teacher, right?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I started sharing my passion for dancing and self-expression and you know, being connected with people.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's when I came here, right?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you want to know about when I came here and I could not speak English.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: My mom used to be an English teacher.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then never land with her.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_04: James, you probably regretted that part.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_04: You would have like, well, I regretted it.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: Your mom was an English teacher, but it's interesting because yeah, you really had no need to learn English at that time until you started traveling.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_04: And so you came here at and you really had no language to express yourself.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Not at all.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: I could only thing I could say was good morning, good night, mom.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's it.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the numbers until 10.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I came here and then came to learn how to speak English.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then I started just kind of like going through the journey.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I recognized my whole you know fitness certifications I did, or I've done around the world in Europe, in the United States, and Brazil.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and came here and then started working, and it was when um one day in 2012, I was teaching one of my dance classes, and I started seeing so many people you know waiting for my class.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, wow, this is interesting.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: I must be one of those people.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_04: I'm one of those people.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: But that day I was uh recreation back then, Glen Harris, which is now these days is good life in Glen Harris, Melbourne.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I started seeing and I had to count people right to see how many people have to put attendance.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I counted 102 people.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, wow, this is a lot of people coming here to my class.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, the thing is that I couldn't communicate with them very freely because of the language barrier.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it was one when something told me, use your hands, you know, because you may communicate with them.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then the first thing I said was the genre we were dancing, which in that moment was salsa, and then was when I say, One salsa, you know, and then I started seeing that people were like looking at my finger and I started dancing in the exact same way I was dancing.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was amazing, incredible to see so much, so much synchronicity.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: There was synchronicity.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: The whole room was moving the same way at the same time.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I started the NSA called two, and it started like that until 10.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I started just basically connecting with them in a way that it was no language, it was through numbers, and I was making noises tiki tiki poku tiki dagga, that's it, and we that's it.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that was how it was universal, yeah.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a universal language of numbers that even a kid can count to 10, you know, in their own language.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: So all I have to do is this and this and this, and people will understand what I'm doing, what I want them to do.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that was how I started baila.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Baila obviously means dance in Spanish.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: So when I said, Come on, Deborah, dance, so I say, Come on, Deborah, baila, you know, you go for it, and it's what we say in our one of the best slogans we have in our company, which is dance first, think later.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got to feel it first, and then you don't have time to think because you were so immersed into the feeling of what you feel when you do baila, which is what most people say, you know.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: I asked it last week, I said, What is your feeling?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: What is the feeling you get from baila after a baila workout?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: And most people say, I feel so re-energized, I feel alive, I feel free, I feel inspired, right?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you start kind of seeing that you're causing a huge impact on people when you live in your own passion, when you live in your authentic self, right?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe a lot in your purpose in life.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you come to this world and you choose to do something, the most important is how much you give in the world with who you are and the passion that you bring to this world that is different.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's only you.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: There is no one like you, you know, he's unique, right?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we came here with gifts.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what I do with with people, you know.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: I always say, I just want you to feel what I feel when I dance, you know.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_04: And I think I think actually the universality of what you're offering, particularly in this time of stress and pressure, there's a lot of people feeling very isolated, disconnected, trying to find a way to exercise or to engage, you know.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_04: The one thing that I noticed about the Baylor classes, but also just the dancing in general, is the communal sense that you're all doing the same thing at the same time.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_04: And it's really comforting in this really strange way.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_04: And you sort of like I've made some wonderful connections through that because it doesn't, you don't even have to speak, it doesn't matter.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_04: You all know that you're in that same rhythm at that time.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_04: And there's something incredibly unifying.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I think you get a lot of people from the mental health perspective.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_04: I think some people don't want to go to the gym and just do the weights, which is fine.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_04: That's one option.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_04: But I think a lot of people need to be immersed in something, whether it's yoga or but the dance is is something that you have put on slate, and it really has been doing it for a while.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: We COVID, for example, let's say you know, one of the toughest times in the whole entire world.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I remember that, you know, when that hit us, um, everyone was confused, everyone was scared, everyone was like, you know, what are we gonna do now?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, once again, the Latina way, we always find a way.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I was in this house, I was living back then, and I took my kids' beds, you know, away, you know, let's say, let's do this.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I put the mattresses, you know, and uh on the side, and I created a whole studio in their room, right?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: So my my drive back then was I got two beautiful kids, I need to support them, and I'm not gonna stop living my passion, right?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, I've been through tough times in life, and I'm gonna show people how you can go through tough times in life.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I just created my whole studio and I started doing online classes.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone, it was amazing to see, like you said, one of the key things we have in Baila is not only the passion for dance, but also the way we we are a community.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: We are a tribe of people that strive for better, right?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Sort of strive for for for you know feeling free, feeling passionate, feeling excited, feeling healthy, right?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: So back then I got so many messages, you have no idea.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: I even I even uh filmed for Colombia uh for a club called the 5M Club.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and then I impacted uh around 60 to 70 people for a group that was meditation, and they were doing as an activity different days of the week.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the those activities was Baila.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was teaching from here from Australia.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_04: Brilliant chose, yeah, so effective.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I you have no idea.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was so grateful.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: I started seeing all the messages that they sent me on Instagram, and I was saying, Daniel, I look forward every every day, every week of your class because you inspire me so much, and then you give me so much life.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: And at five o'clock in the morning back there.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine you dancing at five o'clock in the morning and it feels so wow.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like I'm uh you know in a party and it's only Monday.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_04: But it does feel it, it's interesting you say that though, because I think one of the things that I've observed and the people that I know that do go to your class is there's a sense of it is a bit like a party when life is so bleak and intense and and there's work pressure and there's family pressure, and it does feel a little bit like going to a party, but one that you can just quietly be part of.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_04: You don't have to, and I think that's be yourself.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and very rare that that's it's something that you have cultivated, and I know you've been doing this for a long time.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know, is it how how many years have you been talking about?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: I created Bail in 2012.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, it's been a while.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Back then when I started, I wrote the whole, you know, book, a manual that I created for people that want to teach Bail as well.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: And how you know my whole career, musicality, choreography, teaching techniques, etc., you know, teaching all that, and also, you know, started developing all the genres, you know, because we go like about 10 genres at the moment, right?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: That people can choose from and they can learn to dance in a partner and with themselves.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously, you know, the baila at the moment is a dance fitness program, you know, that you know uses is used to learn how to dance, but also get stay fit, like you said.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of people say to me, you know, the best thing I look forward to every week is baila, because like you said, I feel free, I feel like this stress goes away.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone, everything, the whole world goes away.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just so immersed into the whole class and the music that it makes me feel like, you know.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I was actually watching this week the J-Lo documentary.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if you've watched it yet.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, it is so inspiring.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_04: But one of the things that, you know, obviously she dances nonstop and it's it's just beautiful and it's Latino and it's very, but also her discipline is is really impressive.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's the other thing that you often refer to.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I know that you will say this to me as my now trainer, who is basically trying to get me in shape in many ways as I prepare for a number of things coming up in my life.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_04: But I think one of the things that you talk about is the discipline.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_04: And so one of the things with dance is learning certain um structures and making sure that you actually apply them and also being disciplined and showing up even when you're exhausted and can't be bothered.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_04: And it's really challenging in this world, particularly.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I think post-COVID, there's a sort of a malaise, there's a bit of a, you know, people are struggling still, I find, to get that.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_04: And that's one thing I know that you're very big on.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I know how frustrating it can be with some of your clients like me at times because I'm like, because I'm like, I'm busy, I'm working, I've got stuff.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_04: But but to that end, you and I are going on a personal journey of health and well-being, and you are also doing this with a lot of other people.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_04: What are some of the big tips that you have for people who are feeling that, you know, that you know, struggle?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Struggle.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the first thing I always say to them, especially we want to just refer to fitness, let's wait.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say, when they come to me as a fitness consultant, you know, they want me to train them, is what is your purpose, you know, come being here.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then most people don't know.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: They just they say, I want to lose weight, I want to be active, I want to, you know, heal this or that.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: In reality, they they they're doing that, and then where they start showing the lack of discipline is when they don't know why they're there.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then the reason behind that is you gotta have that why is your drive.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: But people that find the why and then they start giving up on the way is because they have no idea what is the feeling they wanna feel when they achieve what they want.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: So success talks about the difference between a tangible goal, right, which is an achievement itself, and success itself, which is a feeling.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: So success itself equals feeling, right?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: So when you lose that kind of discipline and then focus on what is it that you want to achieve, then you start breaking up that discipline and that you know, focus on what you want to achieve.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I always say to them, you know, what is it that you want to feel when you come here, you know?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then some people say, I want to feel strong.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Other people want to say, I want to feel relaxed, I want to feel free, you know, I want to feel, I don't know, I can do this, right?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Self-confidence.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's okay, right?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to every time you want to feel that, you feel, I'm looking forward to coming to train with Daniel because I know what I'm gonna feel.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then people say, Oh my god, uh, I can believe I can do this, you know, now, you know, so they forget where they started, yeah.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: And my my my my job is very um fulfilling because the way I do it is not the way that other people do it.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: I I got I work through mindset, right?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the mindset is the root of a human being, right?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever you believe in, right, is what your destiny is gonna be, right?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Anything, anything.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Beliefs are made, if you want to know, by the time of six years old, right?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: So everything that you learned was based on your your journey back in your childhood, right?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then when something is not feeling right in your life, right, is because that belief that you got you gained when you were little is not serving you anymore.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_04: I've met people who don't like Christmas and cats and babies, says Peter Dan, but I've never met someone who doesn't like penguins.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_04: An environmental trailblazer, Dr.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_04: Dan, estimates he has watched the penguins come ashore at Phillip Island more than a thousand times and has been fascinated every single time.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_04: A renowned zoologist, Dr.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_04: Peter Dan, is retiring after a 42-year career at Phillip Island, having devoted a lifetime to the conservation and understanding of Australia's only penguin species, the little penguin.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_04: So you've you've watched this climate crisis unraveling.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_04: How are we traveling and what can we do better?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: The problem for penguins, at least, and I should focus on those because that's where my expertise lies, is in temperatures.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: So the waters around the breeding colonies and where they spend the winter are warming.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: And the temperatures, the air temperatures in the breeding colonies, where they also molt.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Molt's a curious thing that penguins go through, or all birds go through, but penguins have to go through in a very unusual way.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: They have to lose their entire plumage in one one go without going back to sea and without feeding.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: So they they feed up and they almost double their body weights.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then they wait in their burrows for nearly three weeks while their new coat of feathers pushes out the old one and becomes serviceable.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: And during this time, they're very susceptible to heat stress.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we've had we we know it's going to get warmer on land throughout the year, and particularly in in spring and summer and and early autumn.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the the penguins when they're molting, they uh they have trouble losing heat.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: They don't perspire, birds don't perspire like we do.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: So they they have to increase their breathing rate to lose heat.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's incredible.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_04: It's what an extraordinary, it's quite unusual, isn't it?
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: For well, well, it it it works when you you know you're not experiencing extreme temperatures.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: But because they've doubled their body weight, they're also very well insulated by fat at this time.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and we've had we've had penguins actually die of heat stress during this period.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: And this happened a couple of years ago where we we probably lost 200 penguins to to heat stress.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_04: That's the other words, yeah.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_04: Very tragic because so and so just to bring you back to so so that's where climate change and the warming and the heating is a problem because it directly impacts.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that that's it on land.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: On on sea, the the implications of of sea level, sea, sea warming, sea temperature warming are multiple, but uh one one of them is it's in in Bastrait, at least, where the uh Philip Island penguins um largely feed, it seems to be that it improv at some times of the year warmer water mixes with the colder water and it and produces more productivity, more primary and more secondary productivity.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot more food about.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: But coming up to the breeding season, then warmer water drives the the fish that um penguins eat, which are cold water species, drives them into deeper water or further away and outside the foraging range of of penguins.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: So penguins have quite a limited foraging range, as you can imagine, because they've got to swim out and swim back again, which they're they're really flying underwater, but we call it swimming, of course.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so so they they can't they can't travel huge distances when they've got small, small chicks in the in the burrows to come back and feed each evening.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that there's it's a kind of double-edged sword there.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there might be more food about, but uh given the circumstances of of warmer water off the breeding colony, then it's clearly not going to be uh uh very good for breeding.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_04: Well, so you've obviously I mean, where did this uh I suppose fascination and passion for obviously very cute little penguins, which we've all grown up with, and we've all, I mean, people come from all over the world to see those penguins.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um, where did your passion for protecting them, I suppose?
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_04: And then we'll talk about what was really quite an innovative, you know, strategy that you implemented to protect them.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_04: Where did you where did this come from?
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_04: Have you always been interested?
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I've always been interested in in natural history, and that came from my parents.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: We used to go on amazing trips, camping trips when I was when I was a child.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and my father was a bird watcher, so I I I'm I'm sure I got the interest from him.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: But uh when I when I I didn't choose to work on penguins initially, but um when I was uh at towards the end of my PhD at Melbourne University, I saw an an ad in the paper which um sounded interesting, and it was to to spend three years looking at what the population trends for penguins were on Phillip Island and whether there was anything that needed to be done or could be done about it.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's when my um relationship with penguins began.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it it was it's one of those, it's I think it's John Lennon who's attributed the quote, um, life's what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I had in spend yes three years um doing sorting out the penguins and then um moving on to something else because it was it was just a set contract.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: But uh things weren't going very well after three years, and there was a lot of a lot of inactivity, and and I what I wasn't happy with anything that was really going on towards the saving the penguins.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh I I couldn't walk away and I'm glad I didn't.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of the best things I one of the best decisions I've made in my life, I think.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_04: I think we're happy you didn't walk away either, and so are the penguins because talk to us a little bit about what you did implement and the strategy you came up with, which actually makes a lot of sense.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there's a lot of logic, but but I can imagine that you were faced with a lot of logistical challenges and bureaucracy in order to get that transformation implemented.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was fairly obvious what needed to be done fairly quickly in in my time working on penguins.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: And there were a number of problems that we could attribute directly to human activity, and and what one of them was um the presence of foxes on Phillip Island, which had been introduced uh over a hundred years before.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: And the foxes um were having a devastating effect on the on the penguins, the killing of the adults.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we had instances where one one or two foxes would kill um dozens of penguins a night, particularly at the penguin parade, which was on the edge of the colony at that stage.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: But we also had there was an unusual situation where there was a housing subdivision in the middle of the breeding area of penguins.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was called the Summerland Estate, and it had 180 houses in it, and when it was fully had it been fully developed, it would have had 760 houses in it.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that would have been um a a lot of probably 760 dogs and maybe you know, 700 odd cats and and many vehicles.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: And road mortality was a serious problem for penguins as well.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: But also some domestic dogs had got into the habit of going into the colony and killing chicks at night, and um hundreds were being lost through through this every year.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and so the the strategy was to um was to uh eradicate foxes, and if you say it quickly, it sounds like it's a fairly simple task, but it actually took 25 years to actually pull it off, and it was an amazing effort by a lot of people.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: But uh we did a few things which didn't work in the in the in the beginning and which took a lot of time, but eventually we uh we got the the process right and and eradicated foxes by 2015.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we have had one fox return across the bridge onto the island since then, but that's been um subsequently removed.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um but the other thing which was probably more uh a question of of um persistence was the was the removal of the entire housing estate.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and that was that was achieved uh after about a twenty four Five-year period also.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: And the um the 180 houses were removed in a motel and and a small a small shop and a a shell museum were taken away and an area rehabilitated for penguins.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the the um responses to the penguin of the penguins was quite rapid.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: And in the next 10 years, so this is from about mid-1980s to mid-1990s, um, the penguin population increased every year, as far as we could tell, uh, until it reached a number of about 25 to 30,000.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's now it's now around 40,000.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_04: But if that I saw that, I mean, what an extraordinary transformation.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_04: But I mean, that would have been a challenging, I mean, those 180 houses, let alone offsetting, let alone pushing back on the the proposed houses, the existing houses.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, how hard was that to navigate?
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_04: Because obviously there would be people who are invested in that and it's their their lives.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_04: And I mean, that would have been quite a challenging thing to implement.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_04: What what how did you navigate that?
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it it was done largely by the um the Ministry for Planning in Victoria.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: But um I was involved in a number of very difficult conversations because you could have quite a lot of empathy.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I did have quite a lot of empathy for the people who were living there.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: Most of them weren't permanent residents, but but they had, you know, that was where they spent their their Christmases and their school holidays and raised their children and and all those things.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: So there there was uh obviously a lot of memories associated with those places.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was a very difficult situation to navigate.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I was surprised at how many people actually felt that their presence there was having problems for penguins and and that and they were aware of a sort of bigger picture than their own immediate um interests.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and so the process was was much more civilized than I thought it might have been.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was largely due to the Minister for Conservation taking it on as a as a project at the time, and that was the late Joan Kerner, who um took it to Cabinet, and and she told me later that it was a fairly near thing at Cabinet as to whether we would go with it or not.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: But the the government did have a few um things up its sleeve, which it did.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: It it gave the permanent residents lifetime tenancy of the area, so that that softened the blow somewhat.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't an immediate kind of of departure from the area, and and then the the rest of the people were uh there was a buyback, yeah, wasn't there?
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was a buyback, that's correct, yeah.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_04: So really it is it is a little comforting to see that some humanity was demonstrated, and while there was empathy, and as you say, there were hard conversations, that at the end the fact that you managed as a team to, I suppose, engage in those very hard conversations, I'm sure, for people as you as you've outlined.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_04: What lessons can we learn from this experience and apply, you know, in other areas?
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_04: Clearly, we have, you know, as as was announced today with this new uh environmental report, it is it is clearly a major issue for wildlife amidst all the other issues, but focusing on the wildlife, because that's your area of expertise.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_04: What can we apply to other, for example, the koalas are obviously under huge threat, we know that as well.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_04: What lessons did you learn from this experience and what do you think we can do moving forward?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I think um so I was a 26-year-old when I started, and and things weren't moving anything like as quickly as I I wanted them to, and I think I've learned to be sort of patient and persistent as much as anything, because we had two things in our favour.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one of them was the remarkable kind of charisma of penguins, and and koalas, of course, have that in spades, but um the other thing was there was an economic um imperative too, with the penguin parade, which is quite an important um tourist attraction on Phillip Island and for the region and and even for Victoria, as you said in the introduction, that uh at one stage pre-COVID, there was uh 60% of our visitors were from overseas.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's uh it was a great economic um draw card as well.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I think those two factors made it slightly unusual.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: But in in terms of koalas, I I think you can use the same arguments.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really it's really there's a there's a kind of mismatch between people's affection for for things wildlife and the implications of their actions.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um for penguins, for example, you know, you've heard me say before that um I've met people that don't like Christmas and babies and cats, but I've never met anyone that doesn't like penguins.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: And um despite this fact, 60% of the penguin species are threatened in some way, uh, usually well and totally by things that humans have caused.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so we and we know what those causes are, and we can we can remedy them.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, climate change is is the biggest one, but when we're not translating people's affection for penguins into management actions and and appropriate activities that will allow them to survive into the future.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for listening.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_02: The What I've Learned podcast comes out every Tuesday for more fantastic stories from amazing guests.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: Check out the What I've Learned Instagram for more updates.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_02: And as Deb would say, stay tuned, kind, and curious.