Latest / Leading in Change / The Four Forces™ of Resilient Leadership: Perspective & Purpose (Part 1)

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The Four Forces™ of Resilient Leadership: Perspective & Purpose (Part 1) · Leading in Change

• Kellie Bourque: Change used to feel like a one-time event. Something you managed and led through, then came out the other side. But we are not living in that world anymore, and change is constant now. That means the job isn't leading through it, it's learning to lead in it. So how do you actually do that? That's what this show is all about. I'm Adrian, a partner and consultant at Success Labs, and this is the Leading in Change podcast. And every episode we dig into the real questions leaders are wrestling with right now. Everything from delegating effectively when the target keeps moving to managing your career in the age of AI. Topics are coming directly from our clients, listeners, and leaders just like you. If you want to lead your people well and manage effectively in the chaos, you're in the right place. Let's get to it. Most leadership advice was built for a world that no longer exists. Today in this podcast episode, we are going to break down what happened. What you can do to become a more resilient leader and offer a practical framework that will help you navigate leading in change. And at the end of the episode, we will also share a link to our resilient leadership self-assessment so you can take it and understand where you fall in terms of readiness as a resilient leader. So before we dig in, I would love to start with an icebreaker. Always. ⁓ do you want to tee it up? Sure. Okay, so here is the question of the day. What's one way you maintain perspective when things get hectic or when you're going through a lot of changes? Hmm. One way that I maintain perspective. You know that I love my morning pages. You do. So morning pages are three pages of longhand writing. It's a practice out of the ⁓ workbook, the artist's way. And I think it really helps me maintain perspective because you can't complain about the same thing day over day and not do something about it. Yeah. And you f when you find yourself ⁓ writing about something that's bothering you, let's say, it will just come out y you realize how small or petty it might be, or it helps you realize, wow, this is actually a much bigger deal than I'm acknowledging or whatever. It really helps me get clarity, maintain perspective. It's something I s I swear by I prescribe to my clients. So Yeah, it might also you said either make sure that it it's it shows you that it's not as big or that it actually is a big deal, but also maybe even connect the dots between why is this bothering me? What can I do about it? Things like that. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I surprise myself all the time. So I love morning pages. But we're getting there. Practice work in progress. There's no such thing as perfect. So practice makes better. Yeah. Okay. Well, what ⁓ how do you maintain perspective? This is not gonna surprise you. But I am a little bit of a ⁓ literal logical in order thinker. I like things to be orderly. And so when I feel like things are too hectic or things are moving too fast around me, I literally need to pause, write what do I need to do right now? Like almost a to-do list, and then connect that back to what am I doing and why am I doing it? Yeah. I think sometimes that pause it feels ⁓ Too expensive in the way you spend your time. But to me, I can't move forward. It's like when I was in college, in order to study for a big exam, I had to clean my room first. I had to have like order and structure for me and then to reconnect to what am I doing and why am I doing it. And that helps me. I love that. That's a good one. Yeah. I love that. Clean your room. Yeah. Clean your room. I like my morning pages. Yeah. I always make my bed. I think it helps order my day. Absolutely. Yeah. I love that. That's great. So let's set the stage. Yeah. Talk about, you know, what is this environment of change? Yeah. So the like I mentioned in the intro, the the world was built for a different type of leader. And that that world is different that no longer it no longer exists. So we have to think differently. This chaotic change environment can be summed up really easily into actually it's a military term. Some of you have might have heard of it. It's called VUGA, V-U-C-A. And VUCA stands for volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous. And like any ⁓ business community model that works really well, if you actually dig into the details, it was usually started in the military and then goes over to the business world. So this concept is a really great way to figure out what is the moment that you're in, what do what is happening, what are the characteristics of the change that you're experiencing, and also helps give you a lot of clarity. It takes this messy, complex thing and gives a little bit of order and structure to it, which does sound really nice. and at least to me who needs that structure. But it's getting more complex than that. It's more complex than VUGA. Yeah. I used to say like change was stochastic. So it would like have a clear beginning, middle, and end. It was like a change. So and that moment of change could create a VUCA environment. Right. So like you think about a hurricane. Yes. Where in Southern Louisiana it's thundering right now. So let's hope the lights stay on. But you know, the beginning of it is the uncertainty around do people have to evacuate? Where are we going to put ⁓ Are ⁓ is the infrastructure secure? And then, you know, the peak is we're batting down the hatches and we're surviving. And then th there's the after of how okay, how do we stabilize? How do we return to normal? Okay. But then there's like typically some normal after. Right. It should in theory go back to normal, whatever normal is, ⁓ definitely in quotes there. But ⁓ yes, there is a beginning, middle, and end. But ⁓ what we're experiencing today doesn't is is is more complex and it's bigger and sometimes scarier. And just a VUCA environment. A hurricane is a great example. and so now I think what's happening is what is called polycrisis, which is like multiple intersecting crises happening at the same time. So you have a hurricane happening at the same time as political instability, at the same time as, let's say, changing ⁓ you know, economic pressures and demographic pressures, and and and and you know, at the micro scale. So like for an individual. You know, it's we have leaders that are now dealing with not only young children but aging parents at the same time that they're dealing with adopting AI into their organization, at the same time that they're dealing with raising healthcare prices. Okay. And then at the organizational level, we have organizations that are dealing with things like tariffs or things like spiking oil prices that change the way that they have to operate on top of mass demographic change, right? Like tons of retirements happening for some of our clients on top of AI disruption. on top of, you know, and environmental change, right? All these things are compounding to create an environment where change is the new normal. Right. Right. And you're you're using this hand motion for those that can are listening and not watching, you use this motion of kind of like heartbeat. Yeah, heart like yeah, a heartbeat monitor where you see it spike and then go back to normal. But what and then when you say polycrisis, it feels like a storm. It feels like everything is messy and scribbles. Right. Yeah, all over the place. We've got a graphic. We can share it. but y so I I think what I'm hearing you say is leading in a VUCA environment trains you to effectively lead in polycrisis. You just gotta figure out how to do it kind of all the time. Yeah. So VUCA environments are now it's now a polycrisis. And with the VUCA environment, I think what that taught us to do is lead th ⁓ lead through change. There was an end and you just had to lead through this like temporary moment. And what polycrisis is forcing us to do is become more resilient and it's teaching us or forcing us to lead in change because the change is never going to end. It's constant, which is smiling at that, but it sounds terrifying. It sounds exhausting. And ⁓ leaders need help. So that's right. We're here to help. We're here to help. So that's why we named the podcast Leading and Change. That's partly why I'm smiling. And you know, I think like that realization can be comforting in its own way. Right. So before we dive into the four P's, really quickly to, you know, run back through kind of like where we're at. Change used to be a moment in time. V VUCA vo with volatile means it it could Change is dramatic, right? The rate of change is the rate of change is high, not sustainable. Yeah. Uncertain means it's not clear the path ahead, right? That you don't have all the information. complex means there's lots of intersecting things, you know. It there's not necessarily just one thing happening. It's it's l lots of factors at play. So it's really hard to isolate. And then ambiguous, there's no right or wrong answer, right? It's gray, it's murky. Okay. So then we've come up with ⁓ four forces that every leader needs to wield to be able to navigate that volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity. And this framework, the four forces, this is the antidote to that feeling of dread or exhaustion that leaders are feeling today. And so I can't let's dive right in. I can't wait to talk about it. I'm excited too. Yeah. So ⁓ the four forces are. ⁓ perspective, purpose, people, and problem solving. Love something that's got a fra a framework with the same letter. That's exactly right. ⁓ so we're gonna walk through each of those four forces here in just a minute. Within those forces, ⁓ you know, we've got what we refer to as competencies. How would you say that plane? Skills, yeah, things that leaders need to do, work on, ⁓ be able to ⁓ master to be able to get ready to meet the moment, to be more resilient. And also Not just to meet the moment for the company's bottom line or for their employees, but like for their own enjoyment and happiness and sanity ⁓ when dealing with a crisis. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. ⁓ it's how do you keep yourself sane so that way you can steer the ship, you know, and keep things on track. Absolutely. I love that. ⁓ okay, so we're going to start with perspective. Yeah, good place to start. So Before you can really lead others and change, you've got to lead yourself, right? I always say, like you to you've got to get your mind right first, right? And so that's really what perspective is all about. There's also this element of outward sensing, ⁓ you know, understanding the environment that you're operating in, scanning the horizon to understand what's coming at you, but you've also got to ⁓ keep yourself solid, you know, and stable. And so we're gonna run through. What does this look like in traditional leadership? And then what does this look like in resilient leadership? So the traditional leadership might be the way we're operating today, but resilient leadership version is what where we need to head in order to meet the moment. That's exactly okay. So tell me, tell me more about perspective. What it what did it used to look like or what does it look like today and what does it need to look like tomorrow? Yeah. So let's go through a few examples. One example that I love is learning agility in the past used to be pretty traditional credentialing. So I'm gonna go get an MBA and that's gonna give me resilience in my career in the long term. But learning agility now needs to be I'm constantly learning all the time. You've got to keep abreast of technology. You've got to understand the environment that you're operating in. It's openness and continuous learning and recognizing that you're never gonna have all the knowledge and information because it's changing so frequently all the time. That sounds a little less expensive than MBA. Absolutely. ⁓ another one that comes to mind is self-awareness and growth mindset. So, you know, we both love personality assessments. one of the ways that people used to really gain perspective was they do a personality assessment and then it was like, okay, it's done, one and done. ⁓ I understand how I operate and I can kind of understand how others operate, and that's good enough. But I think a growth mindset in ⁓ VUCA environment in in polycrisis in constant change means you have got to have like a daily practice of reflection. You've got to have a daily practice of not only reflection, but focus on growth ⁓ and developing your own potential. And ⁓ you know, what why does that matter and what does that look like? It matters because it helps you see, okay, how is my behavior influencing what's happening around me? How can I change my behavior in such a way to get different outcomes? And am I happy with those outcomes? And if I'm not happy with those outcomes, What am I going to do about it? Right. And so I think a lot of leaders fail to pause. They just get in the moment of do do do. And then all of a sudden you realize you're in a position you don't want to be in and you don't know why. Yeah. So it sounds like, you know, what we you talked about in the very beginning of how you maintain perspective using your morning pages, that it's not and it and I said I talked about a pause, combine those two things like pause. Look where you came from, look where you are and look where you're headed. I think the past, present, and future is a good way to think about the perspective that you have and what are you doing to stay connected to that? Because if you get unmoored from that or unmoored from your purpose, which we'll talk about next, like what's the point of it all? Yeah, that's exactly right. Do you want to share another one of the things in perspective? Yes. So another one that I love is ⁓ the skill set of ⁓ intellectual curiosity. One of my I have like a motto and one part of my motto, it's three phrases do good, be kind, stay curious. And I love the idea of staying curious. And it used to look like, ⁓ this thing, this pin that I'm holding, this is neat. And then that being the the end of it. ⁓ when you're thinking as a resilient leader about perspective, it's more, it's less about like this thing is neat and what could this teach me? What do I need to learn from it? It's asking more questions. ⁓ and that can lead over it not just on like an object, like a pen, but it also could mean instead of just checking in with your team and saying, How you doing? Okay, cool. It's more about like how do I make sure I'm protecting my team or how do I make sure that they are learning? How do I make sure that they are teaching me something? It's just constantly being curious about what's happening around. I always say just ask why, you know, like ask a lot of questions. Get really curious. You know, I'm I'm so Let's say you're a leader that your team is not performing the way you want them to. I'm working with a client right now who she's really frustrated because the her team is not demonstrating resilience, is how she puts it. I said, get really curious. Well, so what are they doing? Number one. Well, they're getting really stuck in decision making. They're getting really stuck in the mud. They're getting in the weeds of dis okay. Why do you think that's happening? Well, I don't well go ask them. You know, let's ask why. Why do we think they're getting stuck in the weeds? ⁓ she's like, Well, I think they're probably afraid. Well, why do you think they're afraid? I don't know. Well, let's go ask them. You know, it it's get wanting to get to the root cause of things rather than just making some assumptions and making decisions in a vacuum. It it's that intellectual curiosity. Right. It don't assume we all know the phrase, but don't assume ask. Just just ask more questions. That's exactly what I'm I love one of my favorite things that you do that I know. ⁓ that you do that is so good is you one of your famous phrases. Like if I could, you know, tattoo a phrase that is like your quintessential phrase, your tattoo would say help me understand. ⁓ yeah. Interesting. I don't even know if you knew you think you say that a lot. Yeah. But you do. ⁓ I actually have talked about this on pod podcast, other podcasts and in our blog and things about don't just ask questions, ask better questions. Figure out, don't just just make assumptions like Celeste Headley's TED Talk, I love her TED talk about Where she says, ⁓ where she says, like people will respond to the strongest word in your sentence. So don't say, Were you terrified? Say how did that make you feel? Because the first one, the first question, are you terrified? It's either yes or no. Or how did that make you feel? You have to stop and think about your answer and you will give a much more robust answer. And so we've got to be curious, we've got to ask lots of questions, we've got to keep learning. That's the whole vibe of perspective, which I love. It's a great place to start. I do too. ⁓ the last thank you for that. Yeah. ⁓ the last thing I think on perspective that I want to make sure to include is really I think in the past there was this disconnection between mind and body. Like we didn't talk about the physical self at work. It was like very woo-woo. I remember back when we were, I'm gonna age myself, but I feel like it was like r in college or like right after college when Huffington Post was first out, and Ariana Huffington would have nap rooms. At the Huffington Post. Yes. And she was like, naps are critical and they are part of predict. And everybody thought that was so woo-woo. And so and now we know part of being a resilient leader is physical well-being, that you've got to get good sleep. Yeah. That you have got to eat well, that you need to exercise, that all of these things are components to having the endurance necessary to sustain the pace of change. That's a really good point because you ⁓ it kind of reminds me of this like whole concept of like the separation of like work life and home life. Well, those things are are gonna be eroded. Your personal health and your professional health need to be intertwined. We need to think about that. So we are advocating for a nap room in your office. Love it. Okay. Let's go on to the next force. Yes. The next one is purpose. So this is ⁓ basically it's your ability as a leader to stay oriented to what you're doing, why you're doing it, when the going gets tough or when the route keeps changing or when things get thrown your way. It's it helps us to ⁓ it's like our true north, I think is what you've said before. It's the thing that keeps us grounded in what we're doing, who we're doing it with and why we're and and what and what what the impact is supposed to be. Yeah. So purpose is really important. There's definitely some skill sets that help make purpose come to life in this resilient leadership model. What it might have used to look like, ⁓ one of the skill sets is ⁓ like values-based leadership. So what's that mean? Values-based leadership. So meaning that what you're doing at work is tied to the company's values. And what that could have looked like in more traditional leadership or what it might still look like in some of your offices is a poster in the break room with your core values. And they're usually in an acronym that ties to your company name. And those are exercises that I I get it. I get the point of it. ⁓ but we've graduated past that. It now needs to be your values-based leadership needs to be a litmus test for every single decision that you make. Is this what we want to be known for? Is this something that we can be proud of when we put our head on the pillow at night? Is this something that we would want done to our own sibling or family member? I love that. So it has to be tied to our values in every single decision that we make, not just the the values that go on your badge. ⁓ it has to be every part of it. Another piece of it, my another skill set for purpose is discernment. I love discernment. That could be a whole episode in and of itself. So we need to write that one down. But discernment in traditional leadership used to look like or look could look like. only the C suite, only the highest level leaders having the discernment to make the right decision, to say, no, we need to go this direction because of these the the insinuation circumstances. And really what it needs to be about is everybody needs to play a role. And it needs to be that everybody understands and acts on what is most important. Everybody being on the same page, not just the high level leaders. Don't let that permeate all the way through up and down the org chart. Again, what's the point? Because how often do in a large company do the C suite actually communicate with and at the same level as the people that are doing the work? Definitely. I mean, and one of the things that I've n noticed about high change environments is that you have to have more decentralized decision making. And I think we talk about this in problem solving, but you can't build a team that knows how to independently solve problems without discernment. They have to know how to make the right decisions themselves and separate urgency. That is true urgency from urgency that's just time pressure or whatever else, right? Yeah. Or I worked in an organization in the past, love the organization, love the leader. Sometimes the leader had shiny object syndrome and would say, I read this book, I read this article, I saw this I listened to this podcast, or I saw this Instagram post about this, and we need to change our entire business model. It's like, whoa, buddy, calm down, let's think through. Why this is goes back to that curiosity. Why do you like this? Why is this resonating with you? What would this actually fix? Is something actually broken, or did you just get shiny object syndrome? Just that discernment to at stop and pause and ask ask yourself some questions. I love that. Yeah. What other ⁓ skills or competencies around purpose do you like? I mean, I think what you just said goes right into planning, right? It's I think Traditional leadership was you have a five year strategic plan. ⁓ that's a And you have, you know, clear milestones. I mean, I remember when I was at LSU, we had a five year plan and there were milestones that were reported on every quarter and every year. And we marched in a nice tight line and we did really big ambitious things because that worked. I will tell you, I'm not working with a single organization right now who is still operating off a plan like that because too much is changing too rapidly. Yeah. And so one of the things that we say is you need to have a strategic agenda and then be flexible on how you get there. Yeah. Right. And so when you talk about somebody with shiny object syndrome, loud lightning, sorry. Loud lightning, sorry about that. When you talk about somebody with shiny object syndrome, that's somebody who is not operating from a place of a strategic agenda. That is informed by clear values and a vision for the future. So that's a place you you've gotta know where you're going, why you're going there, and have a kind of what I call like a theory of action for how you wanna make that happen. Yeah. So you mentioned about your clients that are not operating from this five year strategic plans. I'm I'm the same, I'm in the same and I'm a part of organizations that are no longer doing that. what what what was the big shift? Cause I I I think COVID was a really big mindset shift for a lot of people when it comes to strategic planning because they literally had Vision 2020 as literally. Yeah. They literally called it that. And then everything fell apart. And I think people it one of the things that COVID taught us, I think, is to just be a little bit more flexible. Absolutely. And I'm glad that that has stuck around. I think that there's a lot of things that still need to go away from that time period. But that's one of them. But do you think that that's helping organizations be more agile and nimble? So I think that's a good question. I will say I think that technology integration within organizations accelerated dramatically under COVID because the whole world had to go remote. I saw this firsthand. I was working with teams that really still had all in-person policies and went from having All in person policies to being fully remote literally overnight. I mean, it was like you've got two days to figure this out. Massive monitors and some I mean really we were like mass going to, you know, Best Buy and we were giving people cards to order things to their house and we were making training videos and we were doing documentation and process mapping and getting it figured out, right? So I think that absolutely accelerated it. Yeah. What I'll say is I wanna say it was twenty twenty. three that Chat GBT came out, right? So we've got COVID was still we're pretty in the thick of it until through 2021, right? ⁓ we were still having waves of of lockdowns, travel restrictions, whatever. You really only have a year of normal there were still extreme supply chain crunches. We also had inflation. Yep. We also had so there was really no return to normal from that. And then this new technology was already accelerating, being integrated, and now there's this new accelerator of change in AI coming. And so I I think the catalyst was probably COVID, but I think there's a lot of other factors that have just kept the ball rolling and it's just gonna keep rolling. It's a polyclick what we're talking about today. It's a poly crisis. But what I hear you saying is we adapted, we shifted every day. That's what being a resilient leader is. It's recognizing Your purpose and your perspective and keeping people at the front of at the forefront of every decision that you make and ⁓ showing up as a leader every day. Just that's exactly making the next right decision. That's exactly right. Having a clear vision for where you're going, but being an agile and how you're getting there. Anything else you want to add on purpose? Yeah, there's one more ⁓ that I that's kind of a departure. So hang bear with me on this, but leadership presence looks different with the right kind of purpose. I think that's exactly right. Yeah. So the the traditional in traditional leadership that might have meant wearing a suit and tie in the office five days a week. That sounds terrible. But ⁓ now it's that leadership presence is less about less only about the artificial, superficial, like outward, but also j showing up every day as a leader. ⁓ showing up every day with confidence, even when you don't feel like it, just ⁓ making that next right decision. That's what leadership presence means to me and resilient leadership. You know, one of the things that I've been noticing is that leadership presence used to be high certainty. And part of that was the crisp suit that I, you know, projecting confidence. And now what I'm seeing is this younger generation, like God bless them, I love them. I hopefully they save the world. They will. You know, it's they really are skeptical towards authority and towards traditional power structures. And everybody knows that nobody knows it all. Like that's a farce. It's emperor's new clothes. And so leadership presence now has to look really comfortable with humility and really comfortable with ambiguity and really comfortable saying I don't know. Yes. Confidence in saying I don't know. You know what I mean? But not necessarily confidence and certainty, if that makes sense. It makes complete sense. I'm coaching several leaders right now and I cannot tell you how many times in the last two weeks I have said something to the effect of you need to have a conversation with your team about what's on your development plan, what you're actually working on. And they're like, Well, why would I tell them about that? What's development plan? So development plan that we take feedback from might be 360, it might be just anecdotal feedback or it might be self-assessments. Where we take that feedback and figure out what are the what are my strengths that I need to build on and what are my areas of opportunity for growth or ⁓ maybe a develop an un in an undeveloped area. So they create a plan, here are the things that I want to work on, and then they go do it. And my coaching, you are coaching, all of our coaching is what we do after we have that plan is every couple of weeks we check in with them, what progress have you made? Right. And I'm a big advocate and I tell them all everybody that I'm coaching, you need to tell everybody that you work with that you're working on these things. And there's a lot of uncomfortable, squirmy, like they just don't want to talk about they're like, why would I want to tell people that I'm working on something? I'm like, well, why do you think they do? True across the board, age, gender, all the things. So far, yes. But when I give the suggestion of tell like I will tell them, why don't you tell them that you because it's a company mentality to invest in leaders, you have been given a coach. And you have identified some things that you want to work on. And I want to tell you what those are so you can give me real-time feedback or tell me when I'm doing it right or when I'm really getting it wrong. Yeah. And tell your team that they get so squirmy. Now I have noticed that some are more willing to do that. Some are like, okay, yeah, I'll do that. And I can tell they're never gonna do it. I can also tell when they're like, ⁓ I never thought about it that way. I didn't think that I was allowed to talk about this. Why wouldn't I want to be vulnerable and show if I want this growth from my own team? Why wouldn't I want to show my team that I'm also trying to go? I was working with a CEO who got dinged on their 360 feedback. And part of what came out in the comments was that this person is kind of robotic, doesn't connect with people, doesn't demonstrate vulnerability. And I really hurt this leader because they thought they were very empathetic, very connected. ⁓ they were like, I've been really working on this in therapy. And so I said, Well, why don't you like do you, you know, do you put therapy on your calendar? Do you because maybe try that? Like let people see that you're literally working on growth. Put your meetings with your coach on your calendar as coaching session with XYZ. Just that little shift in calling it out. I think was a contributing factor in the next time we did feedback, perceptions were changed. It was seen as ⁓ some of the commentary was literally clearly working on their own leadership development, you know. And so I think you're right of being transparent about that. We're gonna get into transparency more here in a minute, gives people the confidence that you can lead through change. A couple of things in there that I think are worth noting. ⁓ you mentioned ⁓ being transparent about it. Like it's the it's the small things that add up over time. So those you don't have to like go in and announce, like send out a company wide email, like I'm working on myself. Like it's the little things that add up. But also, even if you're doing the work every single day to transform into a resilient leader, your perception, your leadership perception from others. could take up to they research shows up to 18 months to change your personal brand within an organization. That's good. So it takes 18 months to change to change perception. That requires a lot of consistency. That requires a lot of stamina like we talked about. So it's all the more reason to think about your overall well being when you're trying to become a resilient leader. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Cool. What do you want our listeners to take away from this episode? I want them to realize that the leadership advice that we've probably been given in the past was built for a world that no longer exists. And that's okay. There is an antidote to the chaos. And that is to use the four forces to help you become a more resilient leader. And not just learning about what it looks like, but there's some we have some assessments that you can take. We have practical tools that you can use. And so please check out some of the resources that we'll link in the show notes. Yep. I think that's exactly right. Yeah. I would want people to take away like you can learn this stuff. Yeah. You can like totally learn this stuff, man. Absolutely. You know, ⁓ but what I mean literally is you can that we have assessments, sure. Evaluate where you are through reflection, through feedback from your team, and then say, okay, these are the areas where I might be weaker. I'm gonna focus on intentionally strengthening those. And while you might not see the payoff immediately, Either in terms of perception to that stat of yours that what was it, 16 months or something like that? 16 to 18 months. 16 to 18 months. You may not change perceptions rapidly. You might not even feel it yourself rapidly, but over time, this is going to make you prepared for the change that's only going to continue to accelerate. Yeah. You can totally do it. You can learn it. Yeah. That's right. You just got to be the work. So thank you all for listening today. If you enjoyed this conversation, please follow. Follow us, subscribe on YouTube, subscribe on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. ⁓ If you really enjoyed it, we would so appreciate ⁓ a review, a comment, share it. join us next time for the next conversation. We'll share in the show notes the four forces self-assessment that we referenced. And if you want to learn more, go to our website, successlabs.com. Thank you all for tuning in. If this conversation was useful to you, the best thing you can do is share it with someone who might use it. Leave us a review, and please subscribe wherever you're listening. You can learn more about our work at Success Labs and connect with us at Successlabs.com. We're on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. Just search for Success Labs. We'd love to hear from you. Until next time, keep leading well.