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Why You Keep Attracting the Same Person · Speaking of Meaning

0:02
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Speaking of Meaning,
0:04
SPEAKER_02: the podcast that helps you become a stronger communicator,
0:08
SPEAKER_02: build deeper relationships and create impact that matters.
0:13
I'm your host,
0:14
Ibrahim,
0:15
and I am a professional speaker,
0:17
soccer referee and leader.
0:19
SPEAKER_02: I love helping other people, and I also love to learn new things.
0:24
SPEAKER_02: This podcast is about better communication,
0:26
SPEAKER_02: greater impact at work,
0:29
SPEAKER_02: in your home,
0:30
SPEAKER_02: and in the world out there.
0:32
SPEAKER_02: Let's dive in.
0:33
SPEAKER_02: Enjoy the show.
0:42
Welcome back to Speaking of Meaning Everybody,
0:44
Better Communication,
0:46
Greater Impact.
0:47
SPEAKER_02: I am Ibrahim, and today I'm joined by Jeanette Weinberry.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: Jeanette is a dating and relationship expert and coach.
0:56
SPEAKER_02: Jeanette, welcome to the show.
0:57
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
0:58
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: Can you tell me, how did you end up becoming a dating coach?
1:05
SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's such a long story.
1:06
SPEAKER_03: So do we have two hours, three hours?
1:10
SPEAKER_03: No, actually, I separated 20 years ago from the dad of my two children.
1:17
And I was voluntary single for four years,
1:20
playing around,
1:22
finding back to myself.
1:25
SPEAKER_03: But I was also a little bit flirty in my approach those four years.
1:30
And after four years,
1:31
I wanted actually to be in a serious relationship again.
1:35
SPEAKER_03: But I had the same approach, like a little bit appeal.
1:39
SPEAKER_03: I was a little bit cold.
1:41
SPEAKER_03: I didn't let someone in like anyone.
1:45
SPEAKER_03: I was basically on the surface all the time, but I didn't realize that.
1:50
SPEAKER_03: So I was dating those two years wanting a relationship,
1:55
SPEAKER_03: but ending up with the same kind of men as the previous four years.
2:00
SPEAKER_03: And I was really, what is wrong with all the men?
2:04
SPEAKER_03: Because, of course, it was nothing wrong with me, right?
2:08
SPEAKER_03: What is wrong with them?
2:10
SPEAKER_03: I was actually thinking that, for sure.
2:12
And I was,
2:14
there has to be something that I can do or find or get some
2:19
help.
2:20
SPEAKER_03: Because I had my own company in health and two small children.
2:23
SPEAKER_03: And I didn't want anyone to waste my time.
2:26
SPEAKER_03: I was really in the masculine energy back then.
2:29
SPEAKER_03: So I was, isn't there any matchmaker?
2:33
SPEAKER_03: And I looked around, there was no matchmaker in Sweden.
2:36
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, we can't have it like this.
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SPEAKER_03: So I started a matchmaking firm.
2:40
SPEAKER_03: I became the matchmaker.
2:42
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
2:43
SPEAKER_03: And from matchmaking, I converted into coaching.
2:48
And today I work as a dating coach because I realized the work
2:52
is needed to do within yourself.
2:56
SPEAKER_03: It's not only to get a match.
2:58
SPEAKER_03: It's not that easy, even if it's a, it's good, it's a good option.
3:03
SPEAKER_03: But so that is how it started.
3:05
SPEAKER_03: That is when the matchmaking firm was born.
3:08
SPEAKER_03: So it's a long time ago.
3:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
3:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:12
SPEAKER_02: How long have you been doing this, Jannette?
3:14
SPEAKER_02: How many years?
3:15
SPEAKER_03: I would say 13 years, something 13 years, something like that.
3:20
SPEAKER_03: We were the first in Sweden actually, uh, in matchmaking.
3:23
SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: And you also have two podcasts, right?
3:28
SPEAKER_03: I have two podcasts.
3:29
SPEAKER_03: I have one in Swedish.
3:33
SPEAKER_03: And I have that together with some ideas.
3:35
SPEAKER_03: So it's a male and a female.
3:37
SPEAKER_03: And we always fight in that part.
3:40
SPEAKER_03: No, but it's very, it's very nice.
3:41
SPEAKER_03: It's two, two angles, right?
3:43
SPEAKER_03: So it's, it's very interesting.
3:44
We talk about relationships and then I have my English one and
3:48
that is the answers.
3:49
And I'm also talking about relationships and communications and
3:53
a bit spiritual as
3:54
SPEAKER_03: well,
3:54
SPEAKER_03: I would say.
3:57
SPEAKER_02: So your area is dating and relationships.
3:59
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
4:00
SPEAKER_02: And I picked up something interesting when you were talking,
4:04
SPEAKER_02: when you were telling me how you ended up becoming a coach.
4:07
SPEAKER_02: And that is, you said you were in the masculine energy.
4:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
4:11
SPEAKER_02: What did you mean by that?
4:13
SPEAKER_03: We have masculine and feminine energies like yin and yang,
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SPEAKER_03: hot and cold,
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SPEAKER_03: you know,
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SPEAKER_03: light and dark.
4:19
SPEAKER_03: And we all have them.
4:21
SPEAKER_03: We all have them.
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SPEAKER_03: But the masculine energy is like the mountain.
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SPEAKER_03: You are working for results.
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SPEAKER_03: You are the protector, the provider.
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SPEAKER_03: You think pragmatic.
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SPEAKER_03: You use words as thinking, not feeling.
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SPEAKER_03: So you move ahead, you know.
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SPEAKER_03: And the feminine energy is more intuitive,
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SPEAKER_03: receiving,
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SPEAKER_03: you know,
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SPEAKER_03: the warm,
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SPEAKER_03: connected to the feelings.
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SPEAKER_03: So we need both.
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SPEAKER_03: But when you are stressed or if you work from fear,
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maybe you lean toward the different energy that is not supposed
4:54
to dominate you.
4:55
SPEAKER_03: Because I am masculine in work,
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SPEAKER_03: but I want to be in the feminine,
5:00
SPEAKER_03: receiving the softness when it comes to relationships,
5:04
SPEAKER_03: the romantic relationships.
5:06
And I was leaning toward only the masculine energy,
5:09
the resource,
5:10
the control,
5:11
the thrive.
5:13
SPEAKER_03: It's a lot of control,
5:15
SPEAKER_03: which is based in fear,
5:16
SPEAKER_03: of course,
5:17
SPEAKER_03: because when you have control,
5:20
SPEAKER_03: you just,
5:20
SPEAKER_03: you know,
5:20
SPEAKER_03: it comes from fear,
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SPEAKER_03: fear of being seen or left or something like that.
5:25
SPEAKER_03: So we need both, but we are dominant when it comes to the romantic arena.
5:32
SPEAKER_03: Definitely, we need polarity.
5:35
SPEAKER_03: So I was in the masculine searching for masculine men.
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SPEAKER_03: So it's like two in the masculine and that can't happen.
5:44
SPEAKER_02: Oh,
5:44
SPEAKER_02: so you're saying if you are in the masculine energy,
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SPEAKER_02: you're not going to attract the masculine.
5:52
SPEAKER_03: No, you can't.
5:54
SPEAKER_03: You can in the beginning.
5:55
SPEAKER_03: It can be passion, but it will fade out.
5:56
SPEAKER_03: And when I'm talking about energy, it's not gender.
6:00
SPEAKER_03: I'm not talking about man and woman.
6:03
SPEAKER_03: I'm talking about masculine and feminine energy.
6:06
So even if you are gay or in the same gender,
6:09
you still need polarity in the energies.
6:13
SPEAKER_03: And you can shift it.
6:14
SPEAKER_03: It can be a shift.
6:15
You can be sometimes in that energy and sometimes in that
6:18
energy,
6:19
but you need to have polarity.
6:21
SPEAKER_03: So as I was in the wrong side, I was only in the control and the fear.
6:27
SPEAKER_03: I was fear-based.
6:28
I was so high in the masculine,
6:29
not at all in the contact with my feelings.
6:33
SPEAKER_03: That is what the men saw.
6:35
That is attractive maybe sexually and,
6:39
you know,
6:39
flirting,
6:40
but there was just no connection.
6:43
SPEAKER_03: There was no deepness because I came from fear.
6:47
Yeah,
6:48
I was much more into thinking and the result than,
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you know,
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receiving.
6:54
SPEAKER_03: To love is easy.
6:55
SPEAKER_03: You can't be... Yeah, sorry.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: No, I'm sorry.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
6:58
No,
6:58
to love is easier than to be loved because it's much more
7:02
vulnerable to be loved,
7:05
right?
7:05
SPEAKER_03: Because then you need to receive.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: Oh, the receiving part.
7:09
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: Is that what is the most difficult with people?
7:14
SPEAKER_02: It is.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: To actually allow themselves to receive love?
7:17
SPEAKER_03: Yes, for sure.
7:18
SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
7:19
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: And how do they communicate that?
7:25
SPEAKER_02: How do you...
7:27
SPEAKER_02: If I would like to know if I am not allowing myself to receive,
7:33
SPEAKER_02: how would that look like in real life?
7:35
SPEAKER_02: Control.
7:35
SPEAKER_02: Control.
7:37
SPEAKER_03: Always in control.
7:39
You want to have,
7:40
you know,
7:40
you want to have the,
7:42
how can I say,
7:42
the guarantee.
7:44
SPEAKER_03: You want to know the outcome.
7:46
SPEAKER_03: So you are spinning in your mind, creating outcomes that does not exist.
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SPEAKER_03: And you put fear into that outcome, but that outcome doesn't exist.
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SPEAKER_03: It's just in your fears.
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SPEAKER_03: And then you need to, and you want to control things.
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SPEAKER_03: And as I always say, you can control it.
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SPEAKER_03: You can have guarantee if you buy a TV.
8:07
SPEAKER_03: Right.
8:07
SPEAKER_03: But you can never have guarantee in someone's emotions and feelings.
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SPEAKER_03: We cannot control people.
8:13
SPEAKER_03: No.
8:14
SPEAKER_03: So we need to trust.
8:15
SPEAKER_03: We need to trust the process here.
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SPEAKER_03: But when we come from fear, it's difficult.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, fear is difficult.
8:23
SPEAKER_02: Is it related to also self-esteem?
8:25
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
8:26
SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
8:27
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
8:30
SPEAKER_02: And when did you realize that,
8:33
SPEAKER_02: you know,
8:33
SPEAKER_02: this is the breakthrough when you were in the masculine energy,
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SPEAKER_02: fear-based,
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SPEAKER_02: not allowing,
8:41
SPEAKER_02: not receiving and so forth?
8:43
SPEAKER_02: When did you shift that and how did that happen?
8:47
SPEAKER_03: It took me actually very, very long.
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SPEAKER_03: I am 53 this year.
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SPEAKER_03: And I can honestly say it's maybe five, six years ago.
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SPEAKER_03: So it happened like brick by brick.
9:04
SPEAKER_03: It didn't happen like overnight.
9:06
And how it happened is that I met people and I was in
9:10
situations and especially one
9:13
SPEAKER_03: relationship that I had triggered me so much.
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SPEAKER_03: I needed to face my own fears.
9:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:20
SPEAKER_03: So sometimes we need to go,
9:22
SPEAKER_03: you know,
9:23
SPEAKER_03: through all those heartbreaks or heartaches or whatever it can be.
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You can meet people that just trigger it so much that you are
9:30
forced to see it.
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SPEAKER_03: And that was what happened to me.
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SPEAKER_03: So I did the work myself, of course.
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SPEAKER_03: But I am thankful to the people around me,
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SPEAKER_03: also the mentors and the coaches that I've had around me.
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SPEAKER_03: So that was like brick by brick.
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SPEAKER_03: Today, I'm very leaned into the feminine.
9:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it's nice.
9:52
SPEAKER_03: Nice journey.
9:54
SPEAKER_02: Nice journey.
9:55
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: How did that person trigger you?
9:58
Because being in the masculine energy or if we take away the
10:03
energy,
10:03
we stick with the fears.
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SPEAKER_03: My fears was being abandoned or quick shifts.
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SPEAKER_03: When you know,
10:12
SPEAKER_03: when it's like six o'clock,
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SPEAKER_03: that feeling and eight o'clock,
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SPEAKER_03: another feeling or Mondays like this,
10:19
SPEAKER_03: Tuesdays like that,
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SPEAKER_03: small,
10:21
SPEAKER_03: small,
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SPEAKER_03: small things in the patterns,
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SPEAKER_03: like a shift of emoji,
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SPEAKER_03: a shift of energy in the text that triggered me so much.
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And I became needy and not pleasing,
10:35
but I became overgiving and overforgiving.
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SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
10:41
because everything that was in between didn't interest me as
10:45
long as I got got it
10:46
back that was my mission to get it back and this was normal to
10:50
me and to to the
10:54
listeners I just want to explain because it's very important
10:57
this is the attachment
10:58
SPEAKER_03: styles have you heard from the attachment styles do you know them
11:03
SPEAKER_02: I've heard the word before, but I'm not familiar with it.
11:06
SPEAKER_03: This is really important because this is the core.
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SPEAKER_03: And we have four attachment styles.
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SPEAKER_03: We have the secure,
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SPEAKER_03: and then we have the unsecure anxious,
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SPEAKER_03: unsecure avoidant,
11:19
SPEAKER_03: and then we have disorganized.
11:22
SPEAKER_03: So this is how you get your coding when you are a child.
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SPEAKER_03: So when you're safe, you get love and comfort always.
11:30
SPEAKER_03: It's always equal.
11:31
SPEAKER_03: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, it's always the same.
11:33
SPEAKER_03: It's secure.
11:35
SPEAKER_03: And then we have unsecure anxious.
11:37
SPEAKER_03: Then you get it sometimes, but you have shifts.
11:41
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes you get it.
11:42
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes you don't.
11:44
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes you're seen.
11:45
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes you're not.
11:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:47
SPEAKER_03: And that can form you.
11:49
SPEAKER_03: So you are now, you think that this is normal, hot and cold is normal.
11:53
And you get anxious and needy and you're fear-based because you
11:58
know that they can
11:59
SPEAKER_03: leave anytime.
12:00
SPEAKER_03: It can shift like this.
12:02
SPEAKER_03: So everything is just for a moment.
12:04
SPEAKER_03: You can always see the end.
12:06
SPEAKER_03: You try to control that.
12:08
SPEAKER_03: And avoidant, you never get it.
12:10
SPEAKER_03: You always need to sit with your feelings and emotions yourself.
12:16
SPEAKER_03: You never get comfort.
12:18
You maybe get the food and the clothing and the warmth,
12:21
but you never get emotionally met.
12:25
SPEAKER_03: That's hard.
12:26
SPEAKER_03: This is the island.
12:27
I call them the island because they're very difficult in that
12:30
attachment style.
12:32
And disorganized,
12:34
that is when you are growing up with violence,
12:38
trauma,
12:39
maybe abuse.
12:40
SPEAKER_03: I mean, a little bit more drugs, alcohol, et cetera.
12:43
SPEAKER_03: So it's a mix between avoidant and anxious.
12:48
SPEAKER_03: So to me, I'm anxious.
12:52
SPEAKER_03: I'm an unsecure, anxious attachment.
12:55
So for me,
12:56
this was,
12:56
you know,
12:57
it was the red thread in control,
13:00
fear-based.
13:01
SPEAKER_03: They are going to leave.
13:02
SPEAKER_03: I shut down.
13:03
SPEAKER_03: I'm going to be hard.
13:05
SPEAKER_03: Don't get into me because I know it's going to be an ending.
13:09
And you overgive,
13:09
you overforgive because that is the only thing you know.
13:14
SPEAKER_03: You don't know anything else.
13:15
SPEAKER_03: And the nervous system in our body doesn't know right from wrong.
13:21
SPEAKER_03: The nervous system only knows familiarity.
13:24
SPEAKER_03: So when it's familiar, it's safe.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: That's well said, yeah.
13:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:30
SPEAKER_03: So you need to recode.
13:33
SPEAKER_03: But if you're going to recode and take back your own truth,
13:35
SPEAKER_03: you first need to see where is it coming from?
13:39
SPEAKER_03: Where's the core?
13:40
SPEAKER_03: Who told me this?
13:41
SPEAKER_03: Who showed me this?
13:42
SPEAKER_03: Because you don't know anything else.
13:44
SPEAKER_03: The nervous system goes alarm.
13:46
SPEAKER_03: So you need to go back.
13:48
SPEAKER_03: Where is this coming from?
13:50
SPEAKER_03: Then you can take back your truth.
13:54
SPEAKER_03: So it's quite a journey.
13:58
SPEAKER_03: But if you do it right, it's quite possible.
14:00
SPEAKER_03: It's a beautiful journey.
14:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
14:05
SPEAKER_02: So who we are, we're bringing ourselves to the relationship.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: And if we're not aware...
14:14
of our different attachment styles that can impact our
14:18
relationships negatively.
14:20
SPEAKER_03: For sure, 100%.
14:21
And all the relationships,
14:24
not only the romantic ones,
14:26
all the relationships.
14:28
SPEAKER_02: You mean outside work?
14:29
SPEAKER_03: Yes, of course, definitely.
14:30
SPEAKER_03: It depends on how you, maybe you are grown up.
14:33
SPEAKER_03: They say to you, you need to perform to earn love.
14:36
SPEAKER_03: You're only good if you perform.
14:38
SPEAKER_03: You need to earn love.
14:39
SPEAKER_03: You need to earn things.
14:40
Then you get hyper-focused at work because that's the only
14:43
thing that you think
14:46
SPEAKER_03: will come from love later.
14:47
That's the only thing you think you need to do,
14:50
perform,
14:51
perform,
14:51
perform.
14:52
SPEAKER_03: Maybe that's what you've been told, that you need to earn love.
14:56
SPEAKER_03: And we never need to earn love.
14:58
SPEAKER_03: We need to be in the love.
15:00
SPEAKER_03: So this is masculine and feminine energy.
15:03
SPEAKER_03: You can be different in different arenas.
15:05
SPEAKER_03: I'm very safe, maybe a little bit avoidant even in friendships.
15:10
SPEAKER_03: I need space, even if I love them.
15:12
SPEAKER_03: I'm very blessed with beautiful friends.
15:16
SPEAKER_03: In work, no problem.
15:17
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
15:18
SPEAKER_03: I thrive.
15:19
SPEAKER_03: And then we come to the romantic part.
15:23
SPEAKER_03: And this is what I see in my clients as well.
15:26
SPEAKER_03: It's in different arenas.
15:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
15:30
SPEAKER_02: Can you identify different attachment styles with your clients?
15:33
SPEAKER_03: Oh yes.
15:34
SPEAKER_02: Is it easy to see a pattern?
15:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
15:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
15:37
SPEAKER_03: There is,
15:38
of course it's avoided and my clients are avoidant or I would
15:43
say anxious,
15:44
SPEAKER_03: but also,
15:45
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
15:45
SPEAKER_03: also disorganized.
15:46
SPEAKER_03: So it's mostly the unsure that comes to me, of course.
15:51
SPEAKER_02: How does the avoidant look like in a relationship?
15:55
they're difficult this is the island as soon as someone comes
15:59
too close they run
16:02
because they don't they don't know how to deal with that so the
16:06
thing with the
16:06
avoidant is that they are very very present in the beginning
16:11
planning vacations
16:13
SPEAKER_03: they have big minds they have really big emotions very quickly they are
16:18
SPEAKER_03: in the yellow personal arena,
16:20
SPEAKER_03: like very,
16:20
SPEAKER_03: very extroverted often and present and loving and love bombing even.
16:28
SPEAKER_03: But as soon as consistency and commitment comes in, they are gone.
16:32
SPEAKER_03: They can even ghost.
16:34
SPEAKER_03: They can even ghost.
16:35
SPEAKER_03: They can just check out.
16:37
SPEAKER_03: It's very, very difficult.
16:38
SPEAKER_03: As soon as they feel pressure or they are receiving love, they are gone.
16:46
SPEAKER_03: And then they come back and then they're gone again.
16:48
SPEAKER_03: And then they come back and then they are gone again and so on and so on.
16:52
SPEAKER_03: So you can see the avoided and the ambivalent,
16:56
the anxious are a match here because the anxious is used to hot
17:00
and cold and think
17:01
SPEAKER_03: that is normal.
17:03
And the avoidant gets a little bit confirmation and gets a
17:07
little bit love from the anxious.
17:10
And when it's too much,
17:11
they're off and the anxious is after them,
17:13
needing them,
17:14
forgiving them.
17:16
SPEAKER_03: And now we're both in patterns that are familiar, but so, so toxic.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:25
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: It sounds very toxic.
17:27
SPEAKER_03: It is toxic.
17:29
SPEAKER_03: And I will do a metaphor that is easy for the listeners to relate to.
17:33
SPEAKER_03: If you have a ball and the ball is love, right?
17:38
SPEAKER_03: And you start throwing that ball and you get it back.
17:41
SPEAKER_03: And that's nice.
17:42
SPEAKER_03: You get it back again and you throw the ball a couple of times.
17:45
SPEAKER_03: And then one day you throw it.
17:47
SPEAKER_03: Nothing comes back.
17:49
SPEAKER_03: And you go, what?
17:50
SPEAKER_03: What is happening?
17:51
SPEAKER_03: You throw it again.
17:52
SPEAKER_03: No ball.
17:54
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
17:55
SPEAKER_03: And then after a couple of times, you turn away and then comes the ball.
17:58
SPEAKER_03: And what happens here for the anxious is nothing in between matters.
18:03
SPEAKER_03: The only thing that matters is to get the ball back.
18:08
SPEAKER_03: This is the only thing.
18:09
SPEAKER_03: So the dopamine that is arriving when you get the ball, they're back.
18:15
SPEAKER_03: They are back.
18:15
SPEAKER_03: The relief.
18:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:17
SPEAKER_03: And on and on and on and on.
18:19
SPEAKER_03: This is the dynamic.
18:21
SPEAKER_03: This is the toxic, toxic dynamic.
18:23
SPEAKER_03: Because the one that comes and goes is the avoidance.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
18:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:29
So here we need to take both and sit them down and say,
18:32
hey,
18:33
we have here different attachments.
18:35
SPEAKER_03: That's how do we work with this?
18:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:39
SPEAKER_02: So the anxious,
18:40
SPEAKER_02: do they tend to stay too long in a relationship,
18:45
SPEAKER_02: even abusive relationships as well?
18:46
SPEAKER_02: For sure.
18:47
SPEAKER_03: For sure.
18:48
SPEAKER_03: because they're so over-forgiving.
18:50
SPEAKER_03: Hot and cold is so normal to the nervous system.
18:52
SPEAKER_03: It's familiar.
18:54
SPEAKER_03: This is how it's supposed to be.
18:55
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
18:59
SPEAKER_03: And this is toxic because we all deserve consistency.
19:04
SPEAKER_03: And love is not a game, and love should not be that hard.
19:08
SPEAKER_03: And love is not hot and cold.
19:11
SPEAKER_03: Love is consistent.
19:12
SPEAKER_03: Love is safe.
19:14
SPEAKER_03: But we can work together if we are dancing together.
19:17
SPEAKER_03: But we should never chase love.
19:21
SPEAKER_03: It's difficult because we people want to be loved.
19:26
SPEAKER_03: We don't want to be alone.
19:28
SPEAKER_03: So we are chasing the breadcrumb sometimes to prevent being alone.
19:33
SPEAKER_03: I can understand that.
19:34
SPEAKER_03: It's difficult.
19:36
SPEAKER_03: But we are worthy of more, right?
19:40
SPEAKER_02: Everybody deserves love, like you said.
19:41
SPEAKER_03: Of course, yes.
19:42
SPEAKER_02: Very well said.
19:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
19:45
SPEAKER_02: This is very fascinating, very interesting.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: What do you think people struggle with most in dating?
19:53
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we've talked about different attachment styles.
19:56
SPEAKER_02: Are there other things people struggle with when they are dating?
20:00
SPEAKER_03: Yes, I would say being in the authentic.
20:04
SPEAKER_03: We all have masks that we can sell.
20:07
SPEAKER_03: We all know qualities that is doable in social societies or anything.
20:17
SPEAKER_03: We can sell something in us in a mask.
20:19
SPEAKER_03: Maybe you're the clown.
20:21
SPEAKER_03: Maybe you're the therapist.
20:23
SPEAKER_03: Maybe you're the listener, the solution person.
20:26
SPEAKER_03: We all have something.
20:27
SPEAKER_03: We know this is going to work.
20:31
SPEAKER_03: We put on that mask.
20:33
SPEAKER_03: where we're going on a date and we show one side of us.
20:39
SPEAKER_03: But that is not possible.
20:40
SPEAKER_03: We need to show more sides of us.
20:42
SPEAKER_03: So if I'm the therapist and I listen and listen and listen,
20:45
SPEAKER_03: you know,
20:47
SPEAKER_03: it's not going to work because then I would be in a friend zone.
20:51
SPEAKER_03: I need to show more sides.
20:52
SPEAKER_03: I need to show some vulnerability, maybe some humor, presence, authentic.
20:59
SPEAKER_03: I need to be more than just one side, one mask.
21:03
When people go on a date,
21:05
the only thing they have in mind is how do I get chosen?
21:11
SPEAKER_03: Why is that?
21:13
SPEAKER_03: How do I get chosen?
21:14
SPEAKER_03: And I say to my clients, what?
21:18
SPEAKER_03: You're not there to be chosen.
21:20
SPEAKER_03: You're there to get to know a new person.
21:23
SPEAKER_03: Who are they?
21:24
SPEAKER_03: Be curious.
21:25
SPEAKER_03: Take away the expectations.
21:27
SPEAKER_03: Because they need to be a fit to you as well, right?
21:32
SPEAKER_03: So why is the focus only to be chosen?
21:35
SPEAKER_03: It's not interesting.
21:36
SPEAKER_03: You lose the attraction, the energy in the dates.
21:40
SPEAKER_03: You get stiff and you put on the mask.
21:43
So I ask my clients,
21:44
what is it in you that you're so afraid that someone will see?
21:49
SPEAKER_03: Why do you want to be chosen by someone who you maybe really doesn't...
21:54
SPEAKER_03: Maybe you don't want them.
21:56
SPEAKER_03: Maybe you're not compliant.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: You don't even know them.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: No, you don't know them.
21:59
SPEAKER_03: You don't even know them.
22:01
SPEAKER_03: And there is a saying that is so nice.
22:04
SPEAKER_03: You don't give away your house key to first person you meet.
22:08
SPEAKER_03: If I'm going to give away my house key, I need to trust that person.
22:12
SPEAKER_03: So why do you give away your heart?
22:13
SPEAKER_03: Like so easy.
22:16
SPEAKER_03: That is the same.
22:17
SPEAKER_03: You need to earn it a little bit.
22:19
SPEAKER_03: Show some bricks.
22:21
SPEAKER_03: And this is the absolutely...
22:25
SPEAKER_03: Biggest mistake I can see when clients are dating.
22:29
SPEAKER_03: They are there to be chosen.
22:31
SPEAKER_03: Nothing else.
22:33
SPEAKER_03: And also they build up false expectations because,
22:36
SPEAKER_03: you know,
22:37
SPEAKER_03: you go on four dates,
22:39
SPEAKER_03: they are not successful.
22:41
And now you already have in your mind the fifth one will also
22:44
not be successful.
22:46
SPEAKER_03: But that is a new person.
22:48
SPEAKER_03: That's a completely new person.
22:51
SPEAKER_03: So why not?
22:53
SPEAKER_03: Be curious.
22:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:55
SPEAKER_02: So be authentic doesn't mean be yourself.
22:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
23:01
SPEAKER_03: Be yourself.
23:02
SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
23:03
But what if somebody is listening right now and saying,
23:05
well,
23:05
I don't have much going for me.
23:07
SPEAKER_02: I'm really lazy.
23:10
SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't take care of my health.
23:11
SPEAKER_02: I don't go to the gym.
23:13
SPEAKER_02: I'm not a good communicator.
23:16
SPEAKER_02: What should I do?
23:17
SPEAKER_03: That's just sad, what you just said.
23:19
SPEAKER_03: We all have something to offer.
23:23
SPEAKER_03: We all have that value.
23:24
SPEAKER_03: You don't need to be anything to be loved.
23:27
And if you feel like that,
23:28
that is something different,
23:29
then you should do that.
23:30
SPEAKER_03: You should go more to the gym.
23:32
If you feel you're feeling more well when you do it and you're
23:36
in the best version,
23:39
SPEAKER_03: But you don't need to be whole in that sense to find love.
23:43
SPEAKER_03: Definitely not.
23:44
But you need to be open to get to know a new person and to give
23:50
and to receive.
23:51
SPEAKER_03: You need to be invested.
23:54
SPEAKER_03: Right.
23:56
SPEAKER_03: That's just an investment.
23:58
SPEAKER_03: So I would say to them,
24:00
SPEAKER_03: go out and do the dating and go to the gym as well in the meantime,
24:03
SPEAKER_03: if you like to,
24:04
SPEAKER_03: you know.
24:05
SPEAKER_03: So there is no role to this.
24:08
SPEAKER_03: You don't need to be anything to be finding love.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:13
SPEAKER_02: But I guess,
24:14
SPEAKER_02: do people paint this picture that I have to be interesting,
24:18
SPEAKER_02: I have to have an interesting life,
24:20
SPEAKER_02: I have to look fit,
24:22
SPEAKER_02: I have to have a lot of friends,
24:24
I have to look good on social media before I can date somebody
24:27
interesting or find
24:30
SPEAKER_02: love?
24:31
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
24:32
SPEAKER_03: But if we break it down, I need to be that and that and that.
24:36
SPEAKER_03: That is transactional.
24:38
SPEAKER_03: This is transactional.
24:39
SPEAKER_03: I need to be this to get this.
24:42
SPEAKER_03: And always we're in the wrong mindset.
24:45
SPEAKER_03: Because love is not transaction.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: That's an investment.
24:51
SPEAKER_03: So how do you become interesting?
24:53
SPEAKER_03: That is up to everyone.
24:55
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
24:55
SPEAKER_03: what I find interesting,
24:57
SPEAKER_03: the only thing I want to talk about in data is politician or psychology.
25:01
How interesting is that for someone who is not interested in
25:04
those two topics?
25:06
SPEAKER_03: So what is interesting?
25:07
SPEAKER_03: How do you become interesting?
25:10
SPEAKER_03: That's so individual.
25:13
SPEAKER_03: What is right for one is wrong for another.
25:15
SPEAKER_03: So be what's right for you, I would say.
25:23
SPEAKER_02: So be authentic and be interested in the other person.
25:26
SPEAKER_03: Be curious, yes.
25:27
SPEAKER_02: But I guess get out there and start dating.
25:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, of course.
25:31
SPEAKER_02: It's not going to be perfect.
25:32
SPEAKER_03: No, it shouldn't be.
25:34
SPEAKER_03: It shouldn't be.
25:35
SPEAKER_03: What is perfect?
25:37
SPEAKER_03: I don't know what perfect is.
25:38
SPEAKER_03: I love imperfection.
25:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that is what makes us, us.
25:45
SPEAKER_03: So we need to be a little bit more, take away the drama from this.
25:49
SPEAKER_03: Don't take away the transaction thinking.
25:53
And I need to be chosen thinking and be more in your own core,
25:59
in your own energy,
26:00
right?
26:02
SPEAKER_03: And go out and be curious, right?
26:03
SPEAKER_03: And then we have a much more attractive date.
26:08
SPEAKER_03: You can meet people in the supermarket, I promise you.
26:11
SPEAKER_03: You can meet people everywhere.
26:16
SPEAKER_02: So if you're coming from a good place,
26:18
SPEAKER_02: it sounds like you need to be comfortable with who you are.
26:25
SPEAKER_02: You've done your inner work.
26:29
SPEAKER_02: in order to be able to connect with other people and find love.
26:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
26:35
if you want to connect in the sense of meeting your needs and
26:40
your values and your
26:41
SPEAKER_03: boundaries,
26:43
SPEAKER_03: for sure,
26:44
SPEAKER_03: you need to know them first.
26:45
SPEAKER_03: But this comes back to the attachment style.
26:48
SPEAKER_03: This is so easy.
26:49
SPEAKER_03: There was two different things.
26:51
SPEAKER_03: We have healing.
26:53
SPEAKER_03: We have mindset.
26:55
And it's actually a bit tough to go into the mindset if you're
27:00
not healed.
27:01
SPEAKER_03: To be in this, yay, come on, this pep talk.
27:05
It's difficult if you're wounded and you're broken and you're
27:08
low in self-esteem
27:11
SPEAKER_03: because that is really painful.
27:13
SPEAKER_03: That is deeply, deeply painful, those people.
27:16
SPEAKER_03: And I have clients, they are 40, they have never been on a date.
27:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
27:21
SPEAKER_03: I mean, the longer the time goes, the more difficult.
27:25
SPEAKER_03: And if you never are chosen by anyone, it is eating you up.
27:30
SPEAKER_03: And I can understand that.
27:32
SPEAKER_03: But again, we need to go back to the core.
27:35
SPEAKER_03: Where is it coming from?
27:37
SPEAKER_03: Heal that part.
27:39
And trusting the process and knowing that you don't need
27:42
validation from outside.
27:44
SPEAKER_03: You work inside and out and not outside and in.
27:48
SPEAKER_03: Well, this is a journey.
27:49
SPEAKER_03: It's a painful journey for those people that is wounded, right?
27:52
So we've talked about attachment styles,
27:57
being healed,
27:59
being authentic,
28:02
and so forth.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: So I guess my question is then how do loneliness and desire,
28:09
SPEAKER_02: when you desire somebody,
28:12
SPEAKER_02: get confused with,
28:13
SPEAKER_02: for instance,
28:14
SPEAKER_02: love?
28:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
28:16
SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's beautiful.
28:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
28:18
SPEAKER_03: I think we all have been there.
28:20
SPEAKER_03: Loneliness and desire.
28:21
SPEAKER_03: I for sure have.
28:22
SPEAKER_03: I think everyone has been in that.
28:25
SPEAKER_03: You know,
28:26
SPEAKER_03: loneliness can actually,
28:28
SPEAKER_03: when you feel very alone,
28:30
you are desired to more than what is compatible to your needs
28:35
and your values and
28:36
SPEAKER_03: boundaries because you're breadcrumb.
28:39
SPEAKER_03: And you mix dopamine and chemistry for compatibility.
28:45
SPEAKER_03: We have the three C's.
28:46
SPEAKER_03: Compatibility, connection, chemistry.
28:49
SPEAKER_03: The three C's.
28:50
SPEAKER_03: Compatibility, connection, chemistry.
28:52
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
28:54
SPEAKER_03: And we always need to work in that order.
28:56
SPEAKER_03: Compatibility.
28:58
SPEAKER_03: Who are you?
28:59
SPEAKER_03: What do you want to do?
29:00
SPEAKER_03: Where do you want to live?
29:01
SPEAKER_03: Do you want to have children?
29:03
SPEAKER_03: Do you want to marry?
29:04
SPEAKER_03: What's your...
29:06
SPEAKER_03: How do you look at the world,
29:07
SPEAKER_03: the people,
29:09
SPEAKER_03: your beliefs,
29:10
SPEAKER_03: everything,
29:10
SPEAKER_03: the sex,
29:11
SPEAKER_03: everything is here.
29:12
SPEAKER_03: Compatibility.
29:14
SPEAKER_03: Connection, do we like each other?
29:15
SPEAKER_03: And then the fire, the spark.
29:19
SPEAKER_03: But most people go, of course, from fire, the spark.
29:23
SPEAKER_03: And they don't look at compatibility at all.
29:27
SPEAKER_03: So fire can be there for a year, one and a half.
29:31
That's a stress for the body with all the dopamines and
29:35
hormones that kicks in
29:36
SPEAKER_03: where we are in love.
29:38
We shouldn't even work where we are in love because we get a
29:42
little bit stupid,
29:43
right?
29:45
SPEAKER_03: So we are here.
29:45
SPEAKER_03: We get addicted to that.
29:47
SPEAKER_03: But we need to actually work for compatibility.
29:51
SPEAKER_03: But when we feel lonely, we don't even look at compatibility.
29:56
SPEAKER_03: We don't even look at that.
29:57
SPEAKER_03: That is so not interesting.
29:59
SPEAKER_03: We look at only the temporary spark.
30:04
SPEAKER_02: So you said compatibility, connection and chemistry, right?
30:07
SPEAKER_03: Chemistry, yes.
30:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:09
SPEAKER_03: So this is what happens.
30:11
SPEAKER_03: Compatibility is not interesting at all.
30:14
We go from the spark and we take the spark and we take the
30:18
breadcrumbs and we fall
30:19
SPEAKER_03: in love what we see.
30:22
SPEAKER_03: We don't fall in love what is in the reality.
30:26
SPEAKER_03: We see colors that is not there.
30:29
SPEAKER_03: I see red when it's blue.
30:33
SPEAKER_03: I have already painted my vision.
30:36
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter actually what the other person is doing.
30:39
SPEAKER_03: I have already painted my picture.
30:43
SPEAKER_02: End of story.
30:44
SPEAKER_03: I don't see it.
30:45
SPEAKER_03: That's the difference.
30:47
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
30:48
So if you don't start with compatibility and you're just in
30:52
love and it's exciting,
30:54
SPEAKER_02: it's a lot of chemistry,
30:55
SPEAKER_02: a lot of hormones going on,
30:57
SPEAKER_02: then you might actually also miss some red flag or even ignore red flags.
31:02
SPEAKER_03: Oh, ignore, I would say.
31:03
SPEAKER_03: Not miss.
31:04
SPEAKER_03: You ignore them.
31:06
SPEAKER_03: You see them, you ignore them.
31:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
31:09
SPEAKER_03: Because being alone is so much worse.
31:12
SPEAKER_03: It's so much worse to be alone than have a crumb.
31:16
And sometimes when you also hear the attachment kicks in a
31:19
little bit or you have rebound.
31:23
SPEAKER_03: And we're all humans.
31:24
SPEAKER_03: I mean, everyone has done a rebound.
31:26
SPEAKER_03: It's fine.
31:26
SPEAKER_03: You go from the spark.
31:27
SPEAKER_03: You just want to forget the other person.
31:30
SPEAKER_03: A little bit revenge in the whole of this.
31:32
SPEAKER_03: So I know, I know.
31:34
SPEAKER_03: We are not perfect.
31:36
SPEAKER_03: But when we're looking for real love, we need to go from compatibility.
31:40
SPEAKER_03: We actually need to have boundaries.
31:42
SPEAKER_03: That's the most important thing.
31:43
SPEAKER_03: What is your boundaries?
31:45
SPEAKER_03: Needs and boundaries.
31:47
SPEAKER_03: Needs and boundaries.
31:50
SPEAKER_02: So your needs and boundaries.
31:51
SPEAKER_02: And I guess you see people breaking that, right?
31:54
SPEAKER_02: All the time.
31:54
SPEAKER_02: Just ignoring their boundaries.
31:56
SPEAKER_03: Yes, definitely.
31:59
SPEAKER_03: And I do always like this.
32:01
SPEAKER_03: You have the needs.
32:04
SPEAKER_03: You look at your needs.
32:06
SPEAKER_03: But to be in your needs, you actually also need to communicate them.
32:11
SPEAKER_03: If you have needs, you need to tell them.
32:15
SPEAKER_03: Maybe we have different love languages.
32:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
32:18
You need to tell your needs so that we can understand our
32:21
partner and also the fears.
32:24
SPEAKER_03: But when it comes to boundaries,
32:25
SPEAKER_03: we have deal breakers and they can never,
32:29
SPEAKER_03: ever be negotiated about.
32:32
SPEAKER_03: Like respect, how you treat people in real life.
32:37
SPEAKER_03: If I'm dating someone that is not nice to the waiter,
32:39
SPEAKER_03: for example,
32:40
SPEAKER_03: that is such a huge red flag,
32:42
SPEAKER_03: that's a deal breaker that cannot be accepted.
32:46
So it doesn't matter if there are 90% in the compatibility and
32:51
everything here in
32:51
SPEAKER_03: the niche is perfect,
32:52
SPEAKER_03: but that 1%,
32:55
SPEAKER_03: that is a deal breaker.
32:56
SPEAKER_03: That's a boundary.
32:59
SPEAKER_02: That tells you who they are.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: 100%.
33:00
SPEAKER_03: So deal breakers and also respect.
33:05
Let's say you get sick or something,
33:08
or maybe you're just sad and you need to talk.
33:11
SPEAKER_03: How is the other person reacting to that?
33:14
SPEAKER_03: How emotionally available is that person?
33:18
SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
33:19
SPEAKER_03: And all of those boundaries, you need to stick to that.
33:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
33:24
SPEAKER_03: So if we are now falling in love with love, there is no boundaries.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
33:31
SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
33:33
Yeah,
33:35
that's very deep because I guess a lot of people don't even
33:38
think about that,
33:39
right?
33:40
SPEAKER_02: You like the person.
33:42
SPEAKER_02: We laugh together.
33:43
SPEAKER_02: We have common interests.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: He's a nice guy.
33:48
SPEAKER_02: She's a beautiful woman and so forth.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: And then we start dating and then...
33:53
SPEAKER_02: You know, they accept a lot of things in the beginning.
33:56
SPEAKER_02: They don't even care about their boundaries.
33:58
And then after a few months or maybe years,
34:01
they try to change the other person.
34:03
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
34:04
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
34:05
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
34:06
SPEAKER_03: That's exactly how it is.
34:07
SPEAKER_03: That was very good.
34:08
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
34:09
SPEAKER_03: We try to change people into what we want them to be.
34:12
SPEAKER_03: We can never do that.
34:15
SPEAKER_03: You can never change.
34:16
SPEAKER_03: What you see is what you get.
34:18
SPEAKER_03: We can compromise a little bit, but what you see is what you get.
34:21
SPEAKER_03: And for me, life needs to meet the relationship.
34:25
SPEAKER_03: It's not enough what is happening behind the doors.
34:30
SPEAKER_03: What happens when the flight is too late or canceled even?
34:34
SPEAKER_03: You're stuck at the airport.
34:35
SPEAKER_03: How is the reaction from the other one?
34:38
SPEAKER_03: How is the reaction when you,
34:40
SPEAKER_03: exactly as I said with the waiter or something,
34:43
SPEAKER_03: what is the reaction when you get sick?
34:44
SPEAKER_03: What is happening?
34:46
SPEAKER_03: That tells everything you need to know.
34:50
so you need to know your boundaries never never negotiate with
34:54
your boundaries then
34:57
again it's shiftable right because we are growing as people so
35:01
my boundaries today
35:01
SPEAKER_02: may be different when I'm 60 I don't know but is it difficult to leave a
35:10
relationship if you've been stuck for a long time in that
35:16
relationship it is yeah
35:18
SPEAKER_03: it's scary
35:20
SPEAKER_01: Why is it so difficult?
35:22
SPEAKER_03: It's scary because then you're in the empty space.
35:24
SPEAKER_03: Let's say we are here in that relationship and to do a change,
35:30
SPEAKER_03: you need to jump into the empty space first.
35:34
SPEAKER_03: You're leaving something and even if it's bad, it's still safe somehow.
35:39
SPEAKER_03: It's still that person.
35:41
SPEAKER_03: And you leave that.
35:42
SPEAKER_03: And now you need to find yourself without that person.
35:46
SPEAKER_03: But also go into the empty space.
35:47
SPEAKER_03: Who am I now?
35:48
SPEAKER_03: Am I alone?
35:49
SPEAKER_03: To then walk to the new and the shift and the change.
35:55
SPEAKER_03: It's scary to be alone.
35:58
SPEAKER_03: It can be.
35:59
SPEAKER_02: So what do you tell people who right now perhaps are stuck in a...
36:06
SPEAKER_02: not necessarily abusive relationship, but in a toxic relationship.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:11
SPEAKER_02: And they've been thinking about leaving for months or years.
36:15
SPEAKER_02: What do you say to them?
36:18
SPEAKER_03: I often ask them, who do you become with this person?
36:22
SPEAKER_03: Because with that question, who do you become with that person?
36:27
SPEAKER_03: Also with friends, you can ask that question.
36:29
SPEAKER_03: Who do I become with these people, my circle?
36:33
SPEAKER_03: And if the answer is...
36:36
SPEAKER_03: I'm eggshelling.
36:38
SPEAKER_03: I don't tell my emotions because I don't want a conflict.
36:42
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to be gaslighted.
36:44
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to have a fight.
36:47
SPEAKER_03: Or I'm afraid to speak or voice because I'm afraid they will leave.
36:54
SPEAKER_03: You have consequences in voicing yourself.
36:59
SPEAKER_03: Then the answer is can only be leave.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
37:04
SPEAKER_03: But before you leave,
37:05
I always want them to talk to their partner so that the partner
37:08
knows what's going
37:09
SPEAKER_03: on.
37:10
SPEAKER_03: Because sometimes it's because your own fears,
37:13
SPEAKER_03: the self-sabotaging that creates things that doesn't exist.
37:18
So if you have all these feelings,
37:20
you go to your partner and say,
37:22
hey,
37:22
this is how I'm feeling.
37:25
SPEAKER_03: And then you look at the response because that's information.
37:28
And when you get the information,
37:29
you can validate and then you can make a statement.
37:32
SPEAKER_03: But without asking questions, it's actually not information.
37:37
SPEAKER_03: You need to ask if it's not like a narcissistic behavior now.
37:40
SPEAKER_03: But if I'm not feeling seen by my partner, maybe he's not touching me.
37:45
SPEAKER_03: And I don't voice that.
37:48
SPEAKER_03: Maybe for him, he doesn't see that.
37:51
SPEAKER_03: Maybe he has a different love language.
37:53
SPEAKER_03: I need to voice it, look at the answer, then validate.
37:59
SPEAKER_03: But if there is eggshelling and you don't get validated as you want,
38:02
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
38:03
SPEAKER_03: you're not compatible.
38:04
SPEAKER_03: You need to leave.
38:08
SPEAKER_02: But talk to your partner first.
38:09
SPEAKER_02: Always.
38:10
SPEAKER_03: You always need to voice it first.
38:12
SPEAKER_03: If it's not abusive, of course, that's something different.
38:17
SPEAKER_03: If it's abusive, there is no talk and let's just leave it.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: Just leave.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
38:22
SPEAKER_03: Of course.
38:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:23
SPEAKER_03: It's easier said than done.
38:26
SPEAKER_03: But abusive, we don't do that.
38:28
SPEAKER_03: We don't do that.
38:29
SPEAKER_03: So then you need to leave.
38:31
SPEAKER_02: You can't talk with somebody who is oppressing you.
38:33
SPEAKER_02: Of course not.
38:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:35
SPEAKER_02: Of course not.
38:36
SPEAKER_03: You should never be with someone like that.
38:39
SPEAKER_02: No.
38:40
SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, it's pretty common.
38:42
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
38:42
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
38:44
SPEAKER_02: Abusive relationships.
38:45
SPEAKER_03: And it can be abusive.
38:47
SPEAKER_03: How can I say it?
38:48
SPEAKER_03: I have also been in relationships that are definitely not abusive,
38:52
SPEAKER_03: especially one I had in my past.
38:55
SPEAKER_03: Not abusive, but the reactions when I spoke my mind was too difficult.
39:02
SPEAKER_03: Not in violence, but it was more like silence.
39:06
SPEAKER_03: Stonewalling.
39:08
SPEAKER_03: So I didn't have the strength to have that stonewalling faces.
39:14
SPEAKER_03: I was more quiet.
39:16
SPEAKER_03: That is toxic.
39:19
SPEAKER_03: So it doesn't have to be violence, violence.
39:21
SPEAKER_03: It can just be a toxic relationship.
39:26
SPEAKER_02: That can be very, very difficult and frustrating.
39:29
SPEAKER_03: Silence is the worst.
39:31
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
39:32
SPEAKER_03: no,
39:32
SPEAKER_03: I won't say the worst because we still have abuse in different kinds,
39:35
SPEAKER_03: but silence and ghosting,
39:39
SPEAKER_03: stonewalling,
39:40
SPEAKER_03: that is just an abuse.
39:45
SPEAKER_03: It gives the other person a feeling of doing it wrong.
39:51
SPEAKER_03: The mind gets always its self-blame.
39:53
SPEAKER_03: What did I do?
39:54
SPEAKER_03: No, I shouldn't have said that, et cetera, et cetera.
39:58
SPEAKER_03: Stonewalling is very common.
40:00
SPEAKER_03: Today in the society, from the apps, you gaslight, you ghost.
40:06
SPEAKER_03: It's normal today.
40:10
SPEAKER_03: And it comes from the dating apps.
40:12
SPEAKER_02: Is it common that people go on a date and then they just don't reply?
40:19
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
40:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
40:20
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
40:22
SPEAKER_03: Oh, you can go in one day, two days.
40:25
SPEAKER_03: I think the society is so fast and the respect is just not there anymore.
40:31
SPEAKER_03: So when you are online and swiping,
40:35
SPEAKER_03: You sit there Sunday evening, you're a bit bored.
40:38
SPEAKER_03: You talk to two people, three people, four people, but yeah, it's nice.
40:41
SPEAKER_03: But on Monday, you're in a different mood, so you just go sit.
40:45
SPEAKER_03: We don't communicate today.
40:48
SPEAKER_03: It's just too, it takes too much time.
40:51
SPEAKER_03: You need to listen to someone else's emotion.
40:53
SPEAKER_03: You need to, you know, explain yourself.
40:57
SPEAKER_03: So I don't know, it's just a fast society.
41:00
SPEAKER_03: Very disrespectful.
41:03
SPEAKER_02: It sounds very disrespectful.
41:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
41:07
SPEAKER_02: if we've been invested,
41:08
let's say for two weeks of talking and writing and we've been
41:12
going out for a week
41:13
SPEAKER_02: or two,
41:14
SPEAKER_02: and then you just ghost somebody because you don't have,
41:18
SPEAKER_02: is it because people don't have the courage to say,
41:21
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry,
41:21
SPEAKER_02: this is not working for me?
41:23
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
41:24
SPEAKER_02: Or is it just time?
41:26
SPEAKER_03: It's both.
41:27
SPEAKER_03: And also to leave a door a little bit open.
41:29
SPEAKER_03: Because if you don't close it,
41:31
SPEAKER_03: you can always come back and say,
41:33
SPEAKER_03: sorry,
41:34
SPEAKER_03: I've been in the shower or something.
41:35
SPEAKER_03: You know, you can always come back and say, I've been so busy with work.
41:39
SPEAKER_03: You don't really close it.
41:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
41:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:44
SPEAKER_02: Okay,
41:45
SPEAKER_02: so you just move on and you look for somebody,
41:47
SPEAKER_02: you look for something else more interesting in case you don't find it.
41:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
41:52
SPEAKER_02: You can always go back to that other person.
41:56
SPEAKER_03: You can, if you don't close it.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:59
SPEAKER_03: But I think also it's the owning it.
42:03
SPEAKER_03: We don't owe it.
42:04
SPEAKER_03: We don't own up to it.
42:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
42:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
42:09
SPEAKER_02: And for the person who is perhaps,
42:11
SPEAKER_02: you know,
42:11
SPEAKER_02: the attachment styles you talked about earlier,
42:13
SPEAKER_02: the nervous,
42:14
SPEAKER_02: the anxious.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
42:17
SPEAKER_02: They're waiting for that response.
42:18
SPEAKER_02: And then as soon as you write,
42:20
they're probably going to forgive you and go back on a third
42:23
date or fourth date.
42:25
SPEAKER_03: 100%.
42:25
SPEAKER_03: This is the thing that I said about the ball.
42:28
SPEAKER_03: When it comes back, it's like, whew, it comes back.
42:30
SPEAKER_03: It was nothing wrong with me.
42:32
SPEAKER_03: There's nothing wrong with me.
42:33
SPEAKER_03: They were, of course, busy.
42:34
SPEAKER_03: You make all these excuses.
42:38
SPEAKER_03: And when I talk to my clients about this,
42:41
SPEAKER_03: they often get very triggered when I say this because to them,
42:45
SPEAKER_03: it's real love.
42:47
SPEAKER_03: So when I pinpoint it, they get very, very offensive.
42:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
42:54
SPEAKER_02: So they become offended.
42:56
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
42:57
SPEAKER_02: But do they internalize and accept your message after a while?
43:02
SPEAKER_03: After a while, yes.
43:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:05
SPEAKER_03: I need to be very humble, but also very hard to them.
43:10
SPEAKER_03: I need to hold them because they need to be held, feel secure.
43:16
SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm here, I'm talking to you.
43:18
SPEAKER_03: I want you to see this,
43:20
SPEAKER_03: but it's very difficult to see your own pattern,
43:23
SPEAKER_03: how you are actually taking out piece by piece from yourself,
43:28
SPEAKER_03: your own energy,
43:29
SPEAKER_03: your own core to please someone else.
43:33
SPEAKER_03: And that is the only way you know how to love.
43:36
SPEAKER_03: And this all comes down to resentment.
43:38
SPEAKER_03: You go to bed, you will resent yourself every time you go to bed.
43:43
SPEAKER_03: Because you know that you are going to a yes when you want to go to a no.
43:50
SPEAKER_02: What do you mean by that?
43:51
SPEAKER_02: You want to go to yes when you want to?
43:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you say yes when you're inside.
43:55
SPEAKER_03: You say no in your body, your soul, your heart.
43:58
SPEAKER_03: You say no, I don't want this.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: I need more.
44:01
SPEAKER_03: I need to be valued and respected.
44:03
SPEAKER_03: But yet you accept and forgive and accept and forgive.
44:06
SPEAKER_03: You do that in actions.
44:08
And then you go to bed and you resent yourself for saying yes
44:12
when you feel the no so strong.
44:16
Oh,
44:16
so your body is already telling you,
44:19
you know it deep down,
44:20
what you want.
44:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, 100.
44:23
SPEAKER_03: Of course you do.
44:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:24
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
44:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
44:26
SPEAKER_02: And the interesting thing,
44:27
SPEAKER_02: I think,
44:28
SPEAKER_02: is when we are needy,
44:32
SPEAKER_02: when we don't have boundaries,
44:34
SPEAKER_02: when we over-forgive...
44:38
SPEAKER_02: Because I think forgiving and moving on is something else.
44:41
SPEAKER_02: But when we over-forgive, we're always available.
44:44
SPEAKER_02: We don't prioritize ourselves.
44:46
SPEAKER_02: The other person is just going to take us for granted.
44:49
SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
44:50
SPEAKER_03: We are teaching people how to treat us.
44:53
SPEAKER_03: And the more you give, the less the other person will give.
44:57
SPEAKER_03: And this is, I think, in all relationships.
45:00
SPEAKER_03: Because if you over-give, the other one gets comfortable.
45:07
SPEAKER_03: Passive.
45:09
SPEAKER_03: If you do everything, they don't need to do it.
45:11
SPEAKER_03: And that will end up in disrespect.
45:14
SPEAKER_03: Because we do not respect people who doesn't have boundaries.
45:20
SPEAKER_03: Maybe in the beginning.
45:21
SPEAKER_02: So you might be dealing with somebody who is a good person,
45:26
SPEAKER_02: but you're teaching them how to treat you.
45:28
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
45:29
SPEAKER_02: Because you're not allowing them to...
45:32
SPEAKER_02: give you back or to create a mutual relationship.
45:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
45:37
SPEAKER_03: And look at children, look at animals.
45:40
SPEAKER_03: And also us as grownups, we want boundaries.
45:44
SPEAKER_03: If I meet a man and he has no boundaries, I can do whatever I want.
45:48
SPEAKER_03: I can come and go as I please, can be out.
45:51
SPEAKER_03: I can do anything.
45:52
SPEAKER_03: I can chat with different men.
45:54
SPEAKER_03: He doesn't, he has no boundaries.
45:56
SPEAKER_03: I will not feel loved and I will find him pretty uninteresting.
46:02
SPEAKER_03: So to feel loved, I also need some boundaries, right?
46:06
Even if the other person is,
46:08
because sometimes,
46:08
you know,
46:09
they resist your boundaries.
46:12
SPEAKER_02: But even if they're resisting, they're actually respecting you more.
46:17
SPEAKER_03: Yes, definitely.
46:18
SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
46:20
SPEAKER_02: Isn't that interesting?
46:21
SPEAKER_03: It is.
46:23
SPEAKER_03: It is in all communication.
46:25
SPEAKER_03: But I think in the whole communication we have when it comes to love,
46:29
SPEAKER_03: it comes down to if you are afraid to lose or not.
46:33
SPEAKER_03: Ish, lose, I'm doing.
46:35
SPEAKER_03: Ish, lose.
46:36
SPEAKER_03: Because to me, it's not losing.
46:37
SPEAKER_03: It's just two puzzle pieces, not a fit.
46:41
SPEAKER_03: But when we are so afraid of losing, we don't speak our voice.
46:46
SPEAKER_03: Right?
46:47
SPEAKER_03: But if we do that and say, hey, I need more.
46:50
I actually need physical touch or I need you to respond when I
46:54
text you or I need
46:56
SPEAKER_03: to see you more than once a month.
46:58
If we speak that,
47:00
maybe the other will say,
47:01
yeah,
47:02
that's not a fit for me.
47:03
SPEAKER_03: And then you will each lose.
47:05
SPEAKER_03: But if you don't say it, you end up in resentment and disrespect.
47:11
SPEAKER_02: So communication obviously is vital here.
47:16
SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about men and women.
47:18
SPEAKER_02: And if we start with men,
47:21
what do you think men struggle to communicate in dating and
47:25
relationships?
47:27
SPEAKER_03: Oh, you tell me.
47:30
SPEAKER_02: You tell me.
47:32
SPEAKER_03: You're the expert.
47:34
SPEAKER_03: I think men struggle with the emotional part.
47:39
SPEAKER_03: to make the woman feel seen.
47:43
SPEAKER_03: Because women want to be seen, right?
47:46
So this may be the struggle that the men actually have to be
47:51
connected to the
47:52
SPEAKER_03: emotion and actually validate the woman so that she feels feminine,
47:59
SPEAKER_03: actually,
48:00
SPEAKER_03: and also seen.
48:02
SPEAKER_03: Maybe they take that emotional part a little bit too gradually.
48:06
SPEAKER_03: Women need to speak.
48:08
Women need to speak their minds,
48:10
speak their emotions and progress and definitely feeling seen.
48:16
SPEAKER_03: And I can see that lack in many, many ways.
48:19
SPEAKER_03: men, if I can tell.
48:21
SPEAKER_03: And also maybe a bit passive.
48:24
SPEAKER_03: Women want men to take the leadership a little bit, most often.
48:29
SPEAKER_03: When men get too passive, like a little bit albandy, it's boring.
48:35
SPEAKER_03: So that is the men side.
48:39
So what I hear you say is men need to communicate more what
48:43
they're thinking and
48:44
SPEAKER_02: their emotions and also
48:48
SPEAKER_02: Be more of a leader.
48:50
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
48:52
SPEAKER_02: Can you explain a little bit more?
48:53
SPEAKER_02: Can you give me more examples?
48:54
SPEAKER_03: Leader, I don't mean dominant because we are different.
48:57
SPEAKER_03: A leader, I mean protector so that the woman feels safe.
49:03
SPEAKER_03: And this, of course, is not for every woman.
49:06
SPEAKER_03: I go to general speaking now.
49:08
SPEAKER_03: But generally, the woman wants to feel safe.
49:11
So if the man cannot show her safety,
49:15
like if something happens,
49:16
I protect you.
49:18
The woman would put the trousers on and act more in the
49:21
masculine energy.
49:22
SPEAKER_03: And now we have this thing again that we are not in the polarity.
49:28
SPEAKER_03: So I think for men, it's very important to make the woman feel safe.
49:34
Even if it's a woman that has 18 companies in the CEOs or like
49:39
very driven in work,
49:41
SPEAKER_03: she still needs to feel safe and protected.
49:48
SPEAKER_02: Is it also being safe in how you handle your emotions?
49:52
SPEAKER_03: It is.
49:54
SPEAKER_02: Or is it just protecting from violence and other things?
49:57
SPEAKER_03: No, also the emotion that she can speak her mind.
50:00
SPEAKER_03: I feel sad.
50:01
SPEAKER_03: I feel joy.
50:02
SPEAKER_03: I need this.
50:04
SPEAKER_03: Can you see me like this?
50:06
SPEAKER_03: Can you meet me like this?
50:08
SPEAKER_03: You don't need to agree.
50:10
SPEAKER_03: You don't need to agree.
50:11
SPEAKER_03: This is something different, but you need to listen.
50:13
SPEAKER_03: You need to listen so that a woman feels heard.
50:18
SPEAKER_03: That's very important for a woman.
50:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:24
SPEAKER_03: But agreeing is something different.
50:25
SPEAKER_03: I will say that one more time because we cannot agree on everything.
50:29
SPEAKER_03: But if we just feel heard, it helps the feminine definitely.
50:37
SPEAKER_02: Well, I guess we can disagree in a respectful way.
50:41
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, yeah.
50:43
SPEAKER_02: And so should men talk more how they're feeling?
50:51
SPEAKER_02: Is that an advice here?
50:53
SPEAKER_02: Should we talk more?
50:54
SPEAKER_02: Should we communicate more and so forth?
50:57
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
50:59
SPEAKER_03: And also listen.
51:01
SPEAKER_03: Because here in this dynamic, the women speak a little bit more.
51:05
SPEAKER_03: I would guess, about feelings.
51:08
SPEAKER_03: And the man can listen to that and be present in that.
51:11
SPEAKER_03: But for a woman, these feelings... Be present.
51:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
51:14
SPEAKER_02: Be present.
51:15
SPEAKER_03: Be present, yes, and be consistent.
51:19
SPEAKER_03: When a woman has a man that is consistent, she will feel safe.
51:23
SPEAKER_03: It's not about going out, you know, shooting people for her.
51:27
SPEAKER_03: You know, it's not the violence that is here.
51:30
SPEAKER_03: It's just the protective part.
51:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the present part.
51:37
SPEAKER_01: Psychological safety.
51:38
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
51:40
SPEAKER_01: Right?
51:40
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
51:41
SPEAKER_01: Psychological safety.
51:42
SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
51:43
SPEAKER_03: You don't need to be the help here.
51:45
SPEAKER_03: Definitely not.
51:46
SPEAKER_03: It's not about that at all.
51:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
51:51
SPEAKER_02: Very interesting.
51:52
SPEAKER_02: What about women?
51:54
SPEAKER_03: We don't do anything.
51:56
SPEAKER_03: No, we don't struggle with anything.
51:57
SPEAKER_03: No, you don't struggle with anything.
51:59
SPEAKER_03: No, no, no.
52:00
SPEAKER_03: We have nothing.
52:01
SPEAKER_02: I thought so.
52:02
SPEAKER_03: We are perfect.
52:05
SPEAKER_02: I thought so, yeah.
52:07
SPEAKER_02: So we can just move on.
52:08
SPEAKER_03: We can move on.
52:08
SPEAKER_03: Next question.
52:10
SPEAKER_03: No, I think women can nag.
52:14
SPEAKER_03: Women can have a tendency to speak the negative and not the positive.
52:20
SPEAKER_03: That is just in the women's neurotic mind a little bit.
52:23
So women is actually to learn how to communicate a little bit
52:28
more pragmatic so
52:29
SPEAKER_03: that women can reach the man.
52:31
Because when the woman always speaks in these neurotic terms,
52:35
you didn't...
52:37
the man shuts down you know it shuts off so if you just meet
52:42
the man with a little
52:44
bit of you know thinking pragmatic and logic and not so
52:50
negative and say hey you
52:52
know what I love this about you because you men are like
52:56
children a little bit so
52:57
if you say yeah if you say I love this about you but can you
53:02
think about bum bum
53:03
SPEAKER_03: bum so it's not so aggressive
53:06
SPEAKER_03: Because then you reach the man.
53:08
SPEAKER_03: Man needs to feel respected and that you're grateful.
53:13
SPEAKER_03: So if you pick up your wife,
53:17
SPEAKER_03: if you're married,
53:18
SPEAKER_03: your wife,
53:19
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
53:20
SPEAKER_03: you pick up her when it's rainy outside.
53:22
SPEAKER_03: And she says, thank you so much for picking me up when it's rainy.
53:26
SPEAKER_03: You feel valuable.
53:28
SPEAKER_03: You feel that she doesn't take you for granted.
53:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
53:32
But if she doesn't say anything,
53:33
okay,
53:34
you know,
53:35
the man loses it a little bit.
53:37
SPEAKER_03: And when he loses it,
53:38
SPEAKER_03: he will not meet her to feeling seen because now we have,
53:43
SPEAKER_03: it comes a cut in the dynamic.
53:46
So the woman here needs to actually respect her man and to be
53:51
grateful in many
53:52
SPEAKER_03: senses so that he feels,
53:54
SPEAKER_03: you know,
53:55
SPEAKER_03: masculine in that sense,
53:56
SPEAKER_03: you know,
53:57
SPEAKER_03: respected.
53:58
SPEAKER_03: This comes, look at the first date and we take the, who is going to pay?
54:05
SPEAKER_03: Who's going to pay the first date?
54:06
SPEAKER_03: I said the man should pay the first date, but that's my opinion.
54:09
SPEAKER_03: That is not what's correct.
54:11
SPEAKER_03: That is no.
54:12
SPEAKER_02: That's also my opinion.
54:14
SPEAKER_03: And I'm only talking about the first date and it can be a coffee.
54:17
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't have to be champagne and caviar.
54:20
SPEAKER_03: It can be just a coffee.
54:22
SPEAKER_03: but get the coffee for the woman.
54:24
SPEAKER_03: But also the woman needs to try to pay.
54:28
And the man says,
54:29
okay,
54:30
no,
54:30
but if she takes it for granted,
54:32
we have the same problem.
54:34
SPEAKER_03: If she's just, you know, you should do it, you pay.
54:37
SPEAKER_03: That is not nice.
54:39
SPEAKER_03: So she needs to make him feel, thank you, you know?
54:44
SPEAKER_03: And now he is there.
54:46
SPEAKER_03: This is a mistake I see with women.
54:49
SPEAKER_03: So we have two different sides.
54:52
When you say they need,
54:54
I mean,
54:54
show respect,
54:55
it doesn't mean,
54:55
you know,
54:56
be subservient.
54:57
SPEAKER_02: It just means how we talk to each other.
55:01
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
55:02
SPEAKER_02: In a respectful tone.
55:03
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
55:03
SPEAKER_02: But also giving, showing respect with your language.
55:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
55:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
55:15
But it's different because we come from,
55:18
let's say the man comes from here and the woman comes.
55:21
SPEAKER_03: We're doing a video.
55:22
SPEAKER_03: The man comes from here and the woman comes from here.
55:24
SPEAKER_03: And we want to go to the middle here.
55:27
SPEAKER_03: And the woman will show the man more and more respect if he feels,
55:32
SPEAKER_03: when she feels that he sees her.
55:34
And she feels like,
55:36
yeah,
55:37
you're paying attention,
55:38
you're present,
55:38
you're consistent.
55:39
SPEAKER_03: Now she's losing the guard and letting you in.
55:43
And the man will feel the same and can meet her with her
55:47
emotions when he feels
55:48
SPEAKER_03: respected and not taking for granted.
55:51
SPEAKER_03: That when he feels that there is a gratefulness involved.
55:56
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
55:57
SPEAKER_03: Because many women today take so much for granted.
56:00
SPEAKER_03: It should be like this.
56:01
SPEAKER_03: And that is also wrong.
56:03
And the Navradic side from the woman should also tone down a
56:06
little bit to talk,
56:08
SPEAKER_03: you know,
56:08
SPEAKER_03: more,
56:09
SPEAKER_03: you know,
56:09
SPEAKER_03: I feel like this.
56:10
SPEAKER_03: How do you feel?
56:12
When I do that conversation with a man,
56:14
I always say,
56:15
you know what,
56:16
this is how I feel.
56:17
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if I misinterpreted something, but this is how I feel.
56:23
Because just because I feel something,
56:26
it doesn't have to be in real life.
56:29
SPEAKER_03: The truth, it can be my attachment styles, my fears, my self-sabotage.
56:32
SPEAKER_03: So I say, this is how I feel.
56:35
SPEAKER_03: What do you think about it?
56:36
SPEAKER_03: And I always use the word think, not feel, because now I can connect.
56:44
And then the man says,
56:45
okay,
56:45
I think about it like this,
56:47
and now I can reach him.
56:48
SPEAKER_03: If I say, I feel like this, and you made me feel, he's not listening.
56:54
SPEAKER_03: Right?
56:55
SPEAKER_03: This is biologic.
56:56
SPEAKER_03: This is the DNA.
56:58
SPEAKER_03: And he should do the opposite.
57:00
SPEAKER_03: You know what?
57:01
SPEAKER_03: How do you feel about this?
57:02
SPEAKER_03: And she will be, wow, yes, I feel like this and this.
57:08
SPEAKER_03: You see, easy when you know the keys.
57:12
SPEAKER_02: Easy when you know the keys,
57:14
but I guess it's difficult when you are stressed out and you
57:18
don't have time or sad
57:20
SPEAKER_02: or emotional or angry or whatever.
57:24
SPEAKER_03: As always.
57:26
SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
57:26
SPEAKER_03: But I actually,
57:27
SPEAKER_03: when I fight,
57:28
SPEAKER_03: my fight language and also what I teach,
57:31
SPEAKER_03: I always do like this when I'm really,
57:32
SPEAKER_03: really angry.
57:33
SPEAKER_03: I can often say, I love you, but...
57:39
SPEAKER_03: The but is not good.
57:40
SPEAKER_03: I know that.
57:40
SPEAKER_03: But is never good.
57:42
SPEAKER_03: But it's just to me,
57:43
SPEAKER_03: because I come from this anxious attachment,
57:47
SPEAKER_03: I never want anyone to doubt that I still love.
57:51
SPEAKER_03: It's the action I don't like.
57:52
SPEAKER_03: It's not the person I don't love.
57:54
SPEAKER_03: It's the action that I don't love.
57:55
SPEAKER_03: It's a big difference.
57:57
SPEAKER_03: And often we pinpoint in communication the person.
58:02
I don't love this and this and this and I hate this and this
58:04
and this and I
58:04
SPEAKER_03: disagree with that and that.
58:05
SPEAKER_03: But
58:06
SPEAKER_03: It's the action you don't like.
58:09
SPEAKER_03: It has nothing to do with the person.
58:10
SPEAKER_03: You're not going anywhere.
58:12
SPEAKER_03: You just don't like this action.
58:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
58:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
58:18
SPEAKER_02: Do you think people don't know how to argue, how to fight?
58:21
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
58:23
SPEAKER_03: We have different fight languages.
58:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
58:27
SPEAKER_03: We have love languages, five.
58:29
SPEAKER_03: We have five love languages and we have fight languages.
58:36
SPEAKER_03: And do you know the love languages?
58:41
SPEAKER_02: I think there's a book, but I haven't read it.
58:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
58:45
SPEAKER_03: We have physical touch.
58:50
SPEAKER_03: And we have words of affirmations.
58:53
SPEAKER_03: We have time...
58:54
SPEAKER_03: And we have gifts and we have act of services,
58:58
like coming with a coffee or picking up your package so that
59:01
when you're stressed.
59:04
SPEAKER_03: And if we don't speak the same,
59:06
SPEAKER_03: let's say I have a relationship or date and he gives me gifts,
59:11
SPEAKER_03: but he never touches me.
59:14
But maybe he says,
59:15
I love you with the gifts,
59:17
but he never touches me like the small kisses.
59:20
SPEAKER_03: So I don't feel loved, even if he maybe does and do.
59:25
SPEAKER_03: And now we need to speak.
59:27
SPEAKER_03: What's your love language?
59:30
SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
59:30
SPEAKER_03: So you never want to touch.
59:31
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
59:32
SPEAKER_03: Then we're not compatible.
59:35
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
59:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
59:36
SPEAKER_03: Or can I compromise?
59:38
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
59:39
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
59:40
SPEAKER_03: And the same with fights.
59:42
I mean,
59:42
if you're not willing to compromise with a kiss or a touch,
59:45
really.
59:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I agree.
59:48
SPEAKER_03: I agree.
59:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
59:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
59:50
SPEAKER_02: But I guess instead of saying,
59:53
SPEAKER_02: you know,
59:54
SPEAKER_02: this is what I need to feel loved,
59:57
SPEAKER_02: we attack each other.
59:58
SPEAKER_02: Oh, you're not romantic.
1:00:00
SPEAKER_02: You never do this.
1:00:01
SPEAKER_02: You never did that.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_02: And the other person is talking about something completely different.
1:00:05
SPEAKER_02: You know, well, I do this for you.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_02: And then now we're attacking each other.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:00:09
SPEAKER_02: instead of talking about our needs and what we need from each other.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_03: Yes, because we project.
1:00:15
SPEAKER_03: We often work with projections.
1:00:17
SPEAKER_03: So what I feel, I want you to feel.
1:00:21
So if I say I miss you and you don't say it back,
1:00:24
I get,
1:00:24
why don't you say I miss you?
1:00:25
SPEAKER_03: I said I miss you.
1:00:27
SPEAKER_03: I want transaction immediately.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_03: I come home and I,
1:00:30
SPEAKER_03: in my mind,
1:00:31
SPEAKER_03: think,
1:00:31
SPEAKER_03: oh,
1:00:31
there will be candle lights and stuff when I come home because
1:00:34
maybe I would do
1:00:35
SPEAKER_03: that.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_03: And I come home and he's in the shower.
1:00:38
SPEAKER_03: And I, what?
1:00:39
SPEAKER_03: What is happening here?
1:00:40
SPEAKER_03: You'd never do anything romantic for me.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_03: But he, he doesn't know my script.
1:00:45
SPEAKER_03: Only I do.
1:00:45
SPEAKER_03: Only I know my script, right?
1:00:48
SPEAKER_03: So this fight language that we have, some people need space.
1:00:54
When you are really angry and disappointed and hurt,
1:00:58
there are some people needing space.
1:01:01
SPEAKER_03: You know,
1:01:01
SPEAKER_03: two hours,
1:01:02
SPEAKER_03: three hours,
1:01:02
SPEAKER_03: four hours,
1:01:03
SPEAKER_03: maybe till the next day to calm down and to think.
1:01:07
SPEAKER_03: And then we have explosive people.
1:01:09
They want to,
1:01:10
you know,
1:01:11
take the talk immediately,
1:01:13
solve it,
1:01:14
talk about it,
1:01:15
scream about it.
1:01:17
SPEAKER_03: So now we have two difference here.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_03: The one walk away and the one coming after screaming.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_03: We need to talk about that.
1:01:24
We need to talk about how do you react when we are not,
1:01:28
you know,
1:01:29
when we are fighting.
1:01:30
SPEAKER_03: What do you need when we are fighting?
1:01:33
It's not so hard to give someone a bit space if the person
1:01:36
needing space says,
1:01:38
SPEAKER_03: give me space until five o'clock.
1:01:41
SPEAKER_03: Now the anxious knows, okay, five o'clock we will talk.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_03: I can sit in the boat.
1:01:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_03: So fight languages is more important than love language.
1:01:53
SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
1:01:55
SPEAKER_02: This is very interesting, Quina.
1:01:57
SPEAKER_03: There is so much.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_02: We could talk about this for hours.
1:02:01
SPEAKER_02: This is very interesting.
1:02:03
For somebody right now listening who perhaps is single or would
1:02:07
like to communicate
1:02:10
SPEAKER_02: with the opposite sex or go on a date and so forth,
1:02:14
why do you think approaching someone we are interested in is so
1:02:19
difficult?
1:02:20
SPEAKER_03: Oh, rejection.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_03: Rejection.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_03: Fear of rejection.
1:02:25
You know,
1:02:25
I think people need to be better to navigate with rejection in
1:02:30
general.
1:02:31
SPEAKER_03: Because life is more rejection than a yes.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_03: You apply for a job, you will get more no's than yes.
1:02:40
SPEAKER_03: Everything in life is, I think, so much rejections.
1:02:44
SPEAKER_03: If you see it right, it can be redirections as well, as we say.
1:02:49
SPEAKER_03: But people don't approach because they're so afraid of being rejected.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_03: And that's sad because to me, you're not rejected.
1:03:01
SPEAKER_03: For me to be rejected, you need to know me.
1:03:05
SPEAKER_03: You need to know me first, and then maybe you can reject me.
1:03:07
SPEAKER_03: But even then, it's just not compatible.
1:03:11
SPEAKER_03: Or I'm self-sabotaging,
1:03:13
SPEAKER_03: so I need to heal something,
1:03:16
SPEAKER_03: change something,
1:03:17
SPEAKER_03: shift something in myself.
1:03:19
But if I approach someone in the coffee shop or in the after
1:03:23
work or in that party
1:03:24
SPEAKER_03: or in that work and I get a no,
1:03:27
SPEAKER_03: that is not rejection.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_03: We don't know anything about that person's story.
1:03:31
Maybe they are having a rough time at home or maybe they are
1:03:35
just separated or just
1:03:36
SPEAKER_03: started to date someone or I don't know.
1:03:39
SPEAKER_03: Maybe they are just not attracted.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_03: That is not a rejection, right?
1:03:44
SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:03:47
I heard one time,
1:03:48
I don't know who it is,
1:03:49
but it was a dating coach on YouTube.
1:03:53
SPEAKER_02: I think he said something like, you know, rejection doesn't really exist.
1:03:58
Like if I ask you out for a date or if I would like to borrow
1:04:02
money from you and
1:04:04
SPEAKER_02: you say no,
1:04:06
is it really rejection or is it more of the fact that you don't
1:04:11
have what I'm
1:04:12
SPEAKER_02: looking for?
1:04:12
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
1:04:13
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
1:04:15
SPEAKER_03: Very good.
1:04:15
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_03: And this is the ego.
1:04:19
SPEAKER_03: We need to crush the ego as well.
1:04:20
SPEAKER_03: We have the wounded part, but we also have ego.
1:04:23
SPEAKER_03: That's immense.
1:04:24
SPEAKER_03: Crush the ego.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_03: Why do you need that person to say yes?
1:04:30
SPEAKER_03: Maybe it's just interesting.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_03: Maybe you get 10 no's and then 11 you get a yes.
1:04:36
SPEAKER_03: It's just to try something, to talk to someone and to approach someone.
1:04:41
SPEAKER_03: And no matter what's happening, you still did it.
1:04:44
SPEAKER_03: So you can be proud of yourself.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:04:48
SPEAKER_03: So I completely agree with that, that he's at that culture.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
1:04:53
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
1:04:55
SPEAKER_02: really,
1:04:55
it's about asking somebody out or asking for a favor or going
1:05:01
out and saying,
1:05:01
SPEAKER_02: hey,
1:05:02
SPEAKER_02: I find you attractive.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure if that's exactly what you should do,
1:05:06
SPEAKER_02: but let's say I see you and I say,
1:05:08
SPEAKER_02: I find you very interesting.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_02: Would you like to take a coffee?
1:05:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:05:11
SPEAKER_02: And you say, no, I mean, no way it's about me.
1:05:15
Perhaps my approach is bad,
1:05:17
but more often it's probably has something to do with you.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_02: Yes,
1:05:24
SPEAKER_02: you perhaps are not interested,
1:05:26
SPEAKER_02: but it could also be just like you said,
1:05:28
SPEAKER_02: you might be dating somebody or you might be having a bad day.
1:05:31
SPEAKER_03: It can be anything.
1:05:32
SPEAKER_03: And we always project.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_03: We are so into projection with people.
1:05:37
If I find when I'm talking to you and I maybe think that you're
1:05:41
looking at my teeth
1:05:43
SPEAKER_03: or something,
1:05:43
SPEAKER_03: I will 10 minutes into this interview,
1:05:46
SPEAKER_03: I will,
1:05:47
SPEAKER_03: I will,
1:05:47
SPEAKER_03: or this talk,
1:05:48
SPEAKER_03: I will do like this.
1:05:49
SPEAKER_03: I will, I will cover my mouth.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_03: Because that is what I think.
1:05:54
SPEAKER_03: So this is also projection.
1:05:56
I approach someone and if I get a no,
1:05:59
I immediately project it that I'm not good enough.
1:06:05
SPEAKER_03: I project my own feelings.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_03: It's a boomerang.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_03: It's a mirror of everything.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_03: Every relationship is a mirror of ourselves.
1:06:13
So even in this conversation,
1:06:15
if I think that you think something about me,
1:06:18
I will shift.
1:06:19
SPEAKER_03: You will notice my shift.
1:06:21
Maybe I get more shy or maybe I get more loud or maybe I get
1:06:24
more introvert,
1:06:25
SPEAKER_03: extrovert or anything because I see something.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_03: I believe something.
1:06:30
SPEAKER_03: I project my fear.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_03: So, okay, now I go into that coffee shop and I ask and they say no.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_03: So I have my ego, first of all, my ego.
1:06:38
SPEAKER_03: We don't like to be rejected.
1:06:41
SPEAKER_03: But then I will project something.
1:06:43
SPEAKER_03: I must be because of... Right?
1:06:51
SPEAKER_02: So just do it.
1:06:53
SPEAKER_02: And hopefully now you are about to approach somebody.
1:06:57
SPEAKER_02: So what makes an approach feel honest?
1:07:01
SPEAKER_02: And how should we approach somebody?
1:07:03
Oh,
1:07:04
this is so interesting how we would smile always and never from
1:07:08
the back.
1:07:09
SPEAKER_03: Never, never, ever from the back.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_03: Always from the side or up front.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_03: Because when we come from the back, people tend to jump a little bit.
1:07:17
SPEAKER_03: We don't like when people come from the back.
1:07:20
SPEAKER_03: So from side or like up front.
1:07:22
And I think one of the things that is working so good is when
1:07:26
you ask a question.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_03: Let's say you're in a coffee shop and you say,
1:07:29
do you think I should take the blueberry muffins or the
1:07:32
chocolate muffins?
1:07:34
SPEAKER_02: Oh, so you're starting a conversation.
1:07:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right?
1:07:37
SPEAKER_03: Or you can compliment your bag or what kind of coffee do you have?
1:07:43
SPEAKER_03: It looks so good.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_03: I want that too.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_03: You just start something.
1:07:47
SPEAKER_03: Because when you do, you have beautiful eyes, that doesn't work.
1:07:52
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't work.
1:07:53
SPEAKER_03: You get a smile back.
1:07:54
SPEAKER_03: But most often it's a compliment.
1:07:56
SPEAKER_03: It's nice.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_03: But if someone says, I noticed your energy, you're taking the room.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_03: I have to say, I need to say that to you.
1:08:04
You're also giving a kind of a compliment,
1:08:06
but not your body,
1:08:08
your eyes,
1:08:09
your hair.
1:08:11
SPEAKER_03: You can do it in a different way.
1:08:13
SPEAKER_03: So the energy you're coming from is how the result will be.
1:08:20
SPEAKER_02: Oh, so does it mean be indirect with your compliments?
1:08:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_02: So not direct.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_02: Don't comment on looks.
1:08:28
SPEAKER_03: No, not looks.
1:08:29
SPEAKER_03: No, not looks.
1:08:30
SPEAKER_03: Because it's very difficult, especially here in Sweden.
1:08:34
SPEAKER_03: Maybe in different countries we have different cultures.
1:08:36
SPEAKER_03: If you do in Spain, for example, yeah, it's more doable.
1:08:41
SPEAKER_03: But if you are here in Nordic, no.
1:08:43
SPEAKER_03: If you're in the States, yes.
1:08:45
SPEAKER_03: It's different where you are because this is a culture thing.
1:08:48
In the Nordic,
1:08:49
you need to have a little bit slower approach and maybe ask
1:08:53
questions.
1:08:54
SPEAKER_03: And first and foremost, it's not a transaction.
1:08:57
I think the energy you're coming from will be the answer you
1:09:03
will get from that person.
1:09:05
SPEAKER_03: So if we come from an energy that we have a transaction,
1:09:09
SPEAKER_03: I'm asking you because I want something back.
1:09:13
SPEAKER_03: It's difficult.
1:09:14
SPEAKER_03: You're in dangerous sea here.
1:09:17
It's better if you just give a compliment because you want to,
1:09:20
no matter what you get back.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_03: And if it gets awkward, it's only you that can decide that.
1:09:26
Because if the answer is no,
1:09:28
and you make it awkward and embarrassed,
1:09:31
then it will be.
1:09:31
But if you will do,
1:09:33
okay,
1:09:33
I just needed to ask because I couldn't help myself.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_03: You respond with a smile.
1:09:39
SPEAKER_03: No problem.
1:09:40
SPEAKER_03: Right?
1:09:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:09:41
SPEAKER_03: So you decide a little bit yourself if it's going to be awkward or not.
1:09:48
SPEAKER_02: It is, I guess, in Scandinavia, just approaching somebody.
1:09:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_02: we're not really used to it, right?
1:09:57
SPEAKER_02: I mean, approaching a stranger.
1:09:58
SPEAKER_02: So I guess going into a coffee shop and talking to that person,
1:10:03
SPEAKER_02: let's say they're sitting with their friends,
1:10:05
SPEAKER_02: I guess that's frightening to a lot of people.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_03: It is, it is.
1:10:09
SPEAKER_03: And if you're introverted,
1:10:11
I don't want to force you to be extroverted,
1:10:14
but you can do it in micromanagement.
1:10:16
Like you can say hello to someone in the elevator or which
1:10:20
button,
1:10:20
which floor are you going to?
1:10:21
SPEAKER_03: And you press the button for that person.
1:10:24
But this is something you actually need to train because if you
1:10:27
train this in the daily life,
1:10:30
it will be much easier when you do the dating and come to the
1:10:34
dating arena.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_03: So just talking to someone in the supermarket,
1:10:39
SPEAKER_03: but the person with the dog,
1:10:40
SPEAKER_03: or it can be the old lady with 90 years.
1:10:43
SPEAKER_03: It can be the young man at 20.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't have to be romantic.
1:10:47
Just training to say hello or asking a question or anything so
1:10:53
that that skill goes
1:10:54
SPEAKER_03: up a little bit.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
1:10:57
SPEAKER_02: Oh,
1:10:59
so start small because if you're not used to this and you see
1:11:04
your dream man or
1:11:07
SPEAKER_02: woman,
1:11:09
SPEAKER_02: it's going to be very,
1:11:10
SPEAKER_02: I guess,
1:11:11
very difficult to just approach them and talk to them if you're
1:11:13
not used to talking
1:11:14
SPEAKER_02: to people and being social.
1:11:16
SPEAKER_03: Yes, exactly.
1:11:16
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
1:11:18
SPEAKER_03: I think it's very important to train those skills.
1:11:22
SPEAKER_03: And,
1:11:23
SPEAKER_03: you know,
1:11:23
SPEAKER_03: you can talk to basically anyone and not everyone is extroverted,
1:11:27
SPEAKER_03: but just small,
1:11:28
SPEAKER_03: small,
1:11:28
SPEAKER_03: small steps.
1:11:30
SPEAKER_03: And you don't need to change yourself.
1:11:32
SPEAKER_03: Definitely not.
1:11:32
SPEAKER_03: But, you know, just trying to communicate.
1:11:36
SPEAKER_03: And it's not too bad if you get a no.
1:11:38
SPEAKER_03: What is a no?
1:11:39
SPEAKER_03: It's nothing.
1:11:39
SPEAKER_03: You did it.
1:11:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so go out there.
1:11:43
SPEAKER_03: I say go out there and try it every single day.
1:11:46
SPEAKER_03: Do something.
1:11:48
SPEAKER_03: Go outside the comfort zone.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:11:53
a smile okay yeah that that one that one is very very important
1:11:59
yeah i mean
1:12:00
sometimes when i look at my this podcast and uh the video and i
1:12:06
see my my natural
1:12:07
face and i'm like frowning and listening you know when i smile
1:12:12
it it's completely
1:12:13
SPEAKER_03: different yeah yeah but a smile you come so long with that and
1:12:18
SPEAKER_03: All of my clients comes from one root, and we all people do.
1:12:22
SPEAKER_03: That is fear.
1:12:24
SPEAKER_03: And there is always two sides.
1:12:27
SPEAKER_03: We have primary feelings and secondary feelings.
1:12:31
SPEAKER_03: And primary feeling is our action take,
1:12:33
SPEAKER_03: our reaction take,
1:12:35
what we do if we are leaving someone or screaming or needy or
1:12:40
everything is in the
1:12:41
SPEAKER_03: action here.
1:12:43
Underneath the action,
1:12:44
underneath the primary,
1:12:45
the secondary,
1:12:47
that is the fear.
1:12:49
So if I say to my partner,
1:12:50
I am done because I'm afraid that he will leave me.
1:12:53
SPEAKER_03: Maybe he does something and I get afraid he will leave.
1:12:56
SPEAKER_03: I go, I'm done.
1:12:57
SPEAKER_03: But basically my primary fear is, oh, don't leave me.
1:13:02
SPEAKER_03: Please stay, please stay, please stay.
1:13:04
SPEAKER_03: That is my fear.
1:13:06
SPEAKER_03: So to see what's happening here, let's take a quick example.
1:13:10
SPEAKER_03: We have two couples, a couple they are fighting.
1:13:14
SPEAKER_03: So he leaves the bed and he goes out and sleeps on the sofa.
1:13:17
SPEAKER_03: Now she will maybe think, this is the action.
1:13:20
SPEAKER_03: He went out and she was pissed and she's staying in the bed.
1:13:24
SPEAKER_03: But her secondary feelings now will be, he doesn't love me anymore.
1:13:28
SPEAKER_03: He doesn't see me anymore.
1:13:29
SPEAKER_03: He doesn't want to touch me anymore.
1:13:31
SPEAKER_03: His feelings on the sofa, his secondary, I'm not good enough.
1:13:36
SPEAKER_03: I'm not good enough.
1:13:37
SPEAKER_03: No matter what I do, I'm not good enough.
1:13:39
SPEAKER_03: So now we are two people, action take, but with fear based.
1:13:45
SPEAKER_03: And this is exactly,
1:13:46
SPEAKER_03: we can take this to the approaching someone,
1:13:48
SPEAKER_03: asking something in the coffee shop,
1:13:51
SPEAKER_03: what is the fear?
1:13:54
SPEAKER_03: Where is the fear?
1:13:54
SPEAKER_03: What's the secondary feeling here?
1:13:57
SPEAKER_03: And then we can attack that and heal that.
1:14:00
SPEAKER_02: Now you've approached the person.
1:14:01
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:14:02
You've talked about the bag,
1:14:03
the dog,
1:14:04
the coffee,
1:14:05
the conversation is flowing.
1:14:07
SPEAKER_02: Number one, how do you know if the other person is interested in you?
1:14:13
And number two,
1:14:14
how should you close that approach if you're interested in the
1:14:17
person?
1:14:19
SPEAKER_03: If I get a respond, I think that person is interested.
1:14:23
SPEAKER_03: But you never know that.
1:14:24
SPEAKER_03: There is no guarantee.
1:14:26
SPEAKER_03: You know,
1:14:27
smiling and being positive and responding doesn't mean that you
1:14:31
get a yes at the
1:14:32
SPEAKER_03: end of the day.
1:14:33
SPEAKER_03: It can just be a nice outgoing person.
1:14:37
SPEAKER_03: But again,
1:14:38
SPEAKER_03: if you look at point C,
1:14:40
SPEAKER_03: when you're at point A,
1:14:42
SPEAKER_03: you will destroy point A.
1:14:43
SPEAKER_03: So you start with the conversation and the energy.
1:14:46
SPEAKER_03: And then you can say, you know what?
1:14:47
SPEAKER_03: I like this conversation or I love your energy.
1:14:51
I would love to take you out for a coffee or I would love to
1:14:54
have this conversation further.
1:14:56
SPEAKER_03: Do you have any social media that I can connect to?
1:14:59
SPEAKER_03: Because today it's easier to ask for social media than a phone number.
1:15:04
SPEAKER_03: It's much easier.
1:15:06
SPEAKER_03: It's not so private.
1:15:09
SPEAKER_03: And people are more open to share social media than phone numbers.
1:15:14
Even if the phone numbers is on the social media,
1:15:18
so you can get it anyway.
1:15:20
SPEAKER_03: But still, it's just easier.
1:15:22
SPEAKER_03: What's the social media?
1:15:23
SPEAKER_03: Do you have a platform that we can share?
1:15:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:15:27
SPEAKER_03: You are smoothly, you know, getting...
1:15:31
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:15:33
SPEAKER_02: And then when you give them your social media,
1:15:35
SPEAKER_02: they can see who you are,
1:15:37
SPEAKER_02: your pictures,
1:15:38
SPEAKER_02: your dog,
1:15:41
SPEAKER_02: your life and so forth.
1:15:42
SPEAKER_03: And it's so easy to grasp, but oh, I see you also like Italia, Italy.
1:15:46
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I see you read that book.
1:15:49
SPEAKER_03: Oh, where is that coffee shop?
1:15:50
SPEAKER_03: You have so many things that you can approach.
1:15:53
SPEAKER_03: And even if it's not social media with pictures, maybe it's
1:15:58
work social media in somehow,
1:16:00
work network,
1:16:01
you can grasp something there.
1:16:02
SPEAKER_03: I can see you work with this and this,
1:16:04
SPEAKER_03: or I see that you have those and those connections,
1:16:05
SPEAKER_03: or I see you follow,
1:16:07
SPEAKER_03: follow that group.
1:16:08
SPEAKER_03: I do that too.
1:16:09
SPEAKER_03: You can always pick something.
1:16:10
SPEAKER_03: It's so easy.
1:16:16
SPEAKER_02: This is very fascinating.
1:16:17
SPEAKER_03: You make it so difficult to talk to people.
1:16:23
SPEAKER_02: I think we do.
1:16:24
SPEAKER_02: Especially,
1:16:27
SPEAKER_02: I think,
1:16:28
the first five minutes of a conversation in Sweden can be a
1:16:34
little bit challenging,
1:16:36
especially if the other person is introverted and perhaps a
1:16:39
little bit shy.
1:16:41
But if we,
1:16:42
like you said,
1:16:43
if we project on the other person,
1:16:45
then maybe we take it personally.
1:16:46
SPEAKER_02: Oh, they're quiet because I'm not interesting or they don't like me.
1:16:51
SPEAKER_02: But maybe the other person is just shy or have had a bad day.
1:16:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
1:16:56
SPEAKER_02: But it's really, I think, like you say, it's not very complicated.
1:17:01
SPEAKER_02: You're interested in somebody.
1:17:03
SPEAKER_02: You talk to them.
1:17:04
They get to know you,
1:17:05
you show them interest,
1:17:07
and then you take their numbers.
1:17:09
SPEAKER_02: You're not trying too hard.
1:17:12
I think a problem is we either avoid something or we attack it
1:17:18
and we try too hard.
1:17:21
SPEAKER_02: And when we try too hard,
1:17:24
SPEAKER_02: it doesn't matter if we are a good person,
1:17:26
SPEAKER_02: a good woman,
1:17:27
SPEAKER_02: if we are interesting.
1:17:31
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't attract, I guess.
1:17:33
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't.
1:17:34
SPEAKER_03: Always when we come with an agenda, it doesn't attract.
1:17:39
SPEAKER_03: I mean, the low self-esteem choose me again.
1:17:41
SPEAKER_03: We are back at that point, choose me.
1:17:44
SPEAKER_03: If I smile at a person or if I'm nice to a person,
1:17:48
SPEAKER_03: if I bake a cake to my neighbor,
1:17:50
SPEAKER_03: I'm not looking for the transaction.
1:17:53
SPEAKER_03: Transaction would do with work.
1:17:55
SPEAKER_03: Work is transaction, basically.
1:17:58
SPEAKER_03: But emotions are not.
1:18:00
SPEAKER_03: People are not.
1:18:01
So if I do this baking a cake to my neighbor,
1:18:04
it's not because I want something in return.
1:18:06
SPEAKER_03: I bake a cake to her because I want to.
1:18:10
SPEAKER_03: I give a hug because I want to.
1:18:11
SPEAKER_03: I help you because I want to.
1:18:14
SPEAKER_03: But of course,
1:18:15
if it's a friend and I help you one thousandth time and I need
1:18:18
help one and you say
1:18:19
SPEAKER_03: no,
1:18:20
SPEAKER_03: okay,
1:18:20
SPEAKER_03: that's information.
1:18:22
But saying hello to someone in a coffee shop or approaching
1:18:26
someone,
1:18:27
that is not a transaction.
1:18:29
SPEAKER_03: That is a talk and let's see what's happened.
1:18:32
I was out walking in summer with a smoothie,
1:18:35
a green smoothie in my hand.
1:18:37
And there was a man with a bike next to me and I had my earpods
1:18:41
on with music and I
1:18:43
SPEAKER_03: saw his lips moving.
1:18:44
SPEAKER_03: So I took out my part and I said, what?
1:18:46
SPEAKER_03: And he said, that smoothie looks so good.
1:18:48
SPEAKER_03: What's in it?
1:18:49
SPEAKER_03: And I said, oh, it's this and this and this.
1:18:51
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
1:18:51
SPEAKER_03: Do you live in Melbourne?
1:18:52
SPEAKER_03: He said, yes, I do.
1:18:53
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:18:54
SPEAKER_03: So you're headed for the central station?
1:18:55
SPEAKER_03: I said, yes.
1:18:56
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:18:56
SPEAKER_03: Then I go with you.
1:18:57
SPEAKER_03: And he did one thing very, very clever.
1:19:00
SPEAKER_03: He held distance, like one and a half meters or something.
1:19:04
SPEAKER_03: So I didn't feel, you know, that he was coming on to me too close.
1:19:08
SPEAKER_03: He had a bit of a distance, but he was talking all the time.
1:19:12
SPEAKER_03: And at the central station, he asks actually for my social media.
1:19:17
And I said,
1:19:17
you can have it,
1:19:18
but you cannot have a date because I'm not single.
1:19:21
SPEAKER_03: And he said, oh, that's fine.
1:19:23
SPEAKER_03: That's fine.
1:19:24
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
1:19:24
SPEAKER_03: You're just so nice to talk to.
1:19:26
SPEAKER_03: I will be happy to have your social media.
1:19:28
SPEAKER_03: Even though I wanted that date from the beginning,
1:19:31
SPEAKER_03: he said he left,
1:19:32
SPEAKER_03: you know,
1:19:32
SPEAKER_03: so he did it so perfectly.
1:19:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:19:35
SPEAKER_03: You know, so why not?
1:19:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:19:39
So he didn't say,
1:19:41
oh,
1:19:42
you have such a nice hair or you look wonderful today.
1:19:45
SPEAKER_02: He commented on something.
1:19:48
SPEAKER_02: My smoothie, my smoothie.
1:19:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:19:53
SPEAKER_02: So it doesn't have to be this grandiose, wonderful approach.
1:19:56
SPEAKER_02: It can be just simple approach.
1:19:58
SPEAKER_02: Talk.
1:19:59
SPEAKER_03: Much nicer, I would say.
1:20:00
SPEAKER_03: Because if he would say,
1:20:01
SPEAKER_03: ah,
1:20:02
SPEAKER_03: you look so nice,
1:20:03
SPEAKER_03: maybe I wouldn't talk to him all the way to the central station.
1:20:06
SPEAKER_03: Maybe I would have cut it.
1:20:07
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
1:20:09
SPEAKER_02: I have a few more questions.
1:20:10
SPEAKER_02: I know you have to leave very soon.
1:20:13
SPEAKER_02: If somebody would like to become more attractive to the opposite sex,
1:20:18
SPEAKER_02: whether it's a man or a woman right now listening,
1:20:22
SPEAKER_02: what should they do?
1:20:24
One thing they should do today if they would like to become
1:20:26
more attractive to the
1:20:28
SPEAKER_02: opposite sex.
1:20:29
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you should do anything, actually.
1:20:32
SPEAKER_03: This is the thing.
1:20:33
SPEAKER_03: You should be authentic.
1:20:36
SPEAKER_03: You should be just you, of course, with social skills.
1:20:40
SPEAKER_03: Of course, we don't show every side of ourselves on the first date.
1:20:45
SPEAKER_03: But when we come, this is the thing.
1:20:48
SPEAKER_03: Self-confidence, we can play out.
1:20:51
SPEAKER_03: Self-confidence, I can actually act.
1:20:54
SPEAKER_03: I could act it.
1:20:55
SPEAKER_03: No problem.
1:20:56
SPEAKER_03: Self-esteem, I can never act.
1:20:59
SPEAKER_03: Never ever.
1:21:00
SPEAKER_03: It comes from the soul.
1:21:01
SPEAKER_03: It comes from inside.
1:21:03
And if I am in my self-esteem and I'm not afraid,
1:21:09
it will show in my energy.
1:21:11
SPEAKER_03: And I will be on that date actually asking that person, who are you?
1:21:17
SPEAKER_03: Because I will want to get to know that person.
1:21:21
SPEAKER_03: But if I think and I want to ask those questions,
1:21:24
SPEAKER_03: bam,
1:21:24
SPEAKER_03: bam,
1:21:24
SPEAKER_03: bam,
1:21:24
SPEAKER_03: and I need to do,
1:21:25
SPEAKER_03: do,
1:21:25
SPEAKER_03: do,
1:21:25
SPEAKER_03: do,
1:21:26
SPEAKER_03: do.
1:21:26
SPEAKER_03: You know, I try too hard, I try too less.
1:21:30
SPEAKER_03: There is the mismatch.
1:21:31
SPEAKER_03: But if you are authentic,
1:21:33
SPEAKER_03: not so afraid of showing who you are,
1:21:36
SPEAKER_03: never ever say this is right and this is wrong.
1:21:38
SPEAKER_03: We don't do that.
1:21:41
SPEAKER_03: If you say yellow, I say, oh, right, yellow.
1:21:43
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
1:21:43
SPEAKER_03: Okay, I find blue.
1:21:44
SPEAKER_03: I like blue better.
1:21:46
SPEAKER_03: But tell me about your yellow so I understand where you're coming from.
1:21:50
SPEAKER_03: You're telling Enisa, ah, no, still no.
1:21:53
SPEAKER_03: I still find blue better.
1:21:54
SPEAKER_03: I don't say you're wrong.
1:21:55
SPEAKER_03: You don't need to do all of that.
1:21:58
SPEAKER_03: Be curious, take information, be authentic.
1:22:01
SPEAKER_03: That is, that is attractive, very attractive.
1:22:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:22:05
SPEAKER_03: So go inside, right?
1:22:09
SPEAKER_02: So be authentic.
1:22:12
Even if you're nervous or afraid,
1:22:14
it's better to say,
1:22:15
I'm actually nervous right now.
1:22:16
SPEAKER_02: I haven't done this in a while than to pretend to be somebody you're not.
1:22:22
SPEAKER_03: Oh, 100.
1:22:22
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:22:23
SPEAKER_03: It breaks the walls immediately.
1:22:25
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'm a bit nervous today.
1:22:27
SPEAKER_03: Oh, tell me why.
1:22:29
SPEAKER_03: I don't need to be nervous.
1:22:30
SPEAKER_03: You're immediately there in a connection with the right person.
1:22:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:22:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:22:38
SPEAKER_02: That's what we want, the right person in front of us.
1:22:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely.
1:22:43
SPEAKER_03: We don't want someone who we cannot be authentic with anyway.
1:22:47
SPEAKER_03: So that mask will anyway fall off sooner or later.
1:22:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:22:54
So it's better to be authentic from the beginning than to
1:22:58
pretend to be somebody you're not.
1:22:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely, because that's a lie.
1:23:00
SPEAKER_03: You're selling a lie.
1:23:01
SPEAKER_02: Jeanette, two more questions for you.
1:23:04
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:23:05
SPEAKER_02: And the first one is, what makes love meaningful?
1:23:13
SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
1:23:13
SPEAKER_02: Even if it can be imperfect at times.
1:23:18
SPEAKER_03: Oh, what a beautiful question.
1:23:19
SPEAKER_03: I think the imperfect is the love, isn't it?
1:23:23
SPEAKER_03: Being imperfect, that is the perfect.
1:23:26
SPEAKER_03: You should never be perfect.
1:23:29
I think you need to love the sides and the personalities that
1:23:34
comes with your
1:23:35
SPEAKER_03: partner and yourself.
1:23:36
SPEAKER_03: You need to actually love those.
1:23:38
SPEAKER_03: You don't need to agree with it.
1:23:40
SPEAKER_03: And it can never be in the deal breaker.
1:23:43
SPEAKER_03: But love is beautiful because when you get to know a person,
1:23:46
SPEAKER_03: authentic with the flaws,
1:23:48
SPEAKER_03: the imperfection,
1:23:49
SPEAKER_03: that is the love.
1:23:50
SPEAKER_03: That is the safety.
1:23:51
SPEAKER_03: That is the beauty in it.
1:23:53
SPEAKER_03: And I think if you don't do it, you can never love.
1:23:56
SPEAKER_03: I don't believe there is any love that has no imperfections.
1:24:01
SPEAKER_03: And if you think that you can never,
1:24:03
SPEAKER_03: you know,
1:24:03
SPEAKER_03: meet love without imperfections,
1:24:06
SPEAKER_03: you need coaching.
1:24:08
SPEAKER_03: This is the beauty.
1:24:09
SPEAKER_03: This is the beauty.
1:24:10
SPEAKER_03: This is the authentic, the raw, the vulnerability.
1:24:14
So I think this is the beautiful part of the love that you feel
1:24:18
so safe with your partner.
1:24:19
SPEAKER_03: You can do anything.
1:24:22
SPEAKER_03: And you can grow, you allow your partner to grow.
1:24:26
Because if you don't allow your partner to grow,
1:24:29
you are not involved in the love,
1:24:33
right?
1:24:33
SPEAKER_03: So I think this is also something you want to see your partner grow.
1:24:39
SPEAKER_03: And that will be imperfect, of course.
1:24:43
SPEAKER_03: No, that is the beauty in love.
1:24:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:24:47
you keep getting back to being authentic being imperfect yeah
1:24:54
because we are we are
1:24:55
all a bit broken for every one of us have something and if we
1:25:02
can never share that
1:25:04
or heal that who are we we also need to be in trust in trust of
1:25:08
the process and I
1:25:11
SPEAKER_03: think love is so beautiful with the imperfections
1:25:15
Can you imagine meeting a partner where everything is perfect
1:25:21
and the person says,
1:25:23
SPEAKER_03: no,
1:25:23
SPEAKER_03: everything is perfect.
1:25:24
SPEAKER_03: I have had the best life.
1:25:26
SPEAKER_03: I've never done anything.
1:25:27
SPEAKER_03: I don't have any flaws.
1:25:30
SPEAKER_03: Everything is good.
1:25:31
SPEAKER_03: It becomes shallow.
1:25:34
Mm-hmm.
1:25:35
SPEAKER_03: We need to love that.
1:25:36
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't exist.
1:25:37
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't exist.
1:25:38
SPEAKER_03: No, no.
1:25:40
SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, that's the beauty of the love.
1:25:42
SPEAKER_03: Embracing someone else's imperfections.
1:25:45
SPEAKER_03: Loving that.
1:25:47
SPEAKER_02: Embracing somebody else's imperfections.
1:25:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:25:50
SPEAKER_02: Jeanette, before I ask you the last question...
1:25:54
Is there something I should have asked you about dating and
1:25:58
relationships that I haven't asked?
1:26:01
SPEAKER_02: Something important that you think, I would like to talk about this.
1:26:05
SPEAKER_02: Ibrahim hasn't asked me about it.
1:26:06
SPEAKER_03: No, I think actually we covered this.
1:26:08
SPEAKER_03: I think the thing,
1:26:10
the key thing also for listeners to take with is we shouldn't
1:26:14
be so much in
1:26:15
SPEAKER_03: interpretation,
1:26:16
SPEAKER_03: interpret things that is not in front of us,
1:26:20
SPEAKER_03: seeing things that is not in front of us,
1:26:22
SPEAKER_03: or
1:26:23
SPEAKER_03: Actually the opposite,
1:26:25
to actually see what is in front of us and not interpret
1:26:28
something that has to do
1:26:29
SPEAKER_03: with our wounds.
1:26:30
SPEAKER_03: Everything comes down to who am I?
1:26:33
SPEAKER_03: What is my coding?
1:26:36
SPEAKER_03: What is my reactions?
1:26:37
SPEAKER_03: What is my fears?
1:26:38
SPEAKER_03: How do I act on it?
1:26:40
SPEAKER_03: What do I self-sabotage?
1:26:41
SPEAKER_03: We always do the self-accountability first.
1:26:46
So if you're single 10 years,
1:26:47
you actually need to ask you,
1:26:49
why am I single 10 years?
1:26:51
SPEAKER_03: Who am I dating?
1:26:53
SPEAKER_03: What kind of people do I attract in and why?
1:26:58
How come I attract the same person over and over and over in
1:27:02
different costumes?
1:27:03
SPEAKER_03: Why do I have the same results over and over and over?
1:27:07
SPEAKER_03: This is the attachment.
1:27:08
SPEAKER_03: This is the wounds.
1:27:09
SPEAKER_03: This is where we act from fear.
1:27:11
SPEAKER_03: Okay, good.
1:27:12
SPEAKER_03: I need to do something.
1:27:14
And the other thing is that I want people to believe in love
1:27:18
because there are love
1:27:19
SPEAKER_03: outside for everyone.
1:27:21
SPEAKER_03: We are born with a value, each and every one of us.
1:27:25
SPEAKER_03: We deserve love.
1:27:26
SPEAKER_03: We don't need to find value.
1:27:28
SPEAKER_03: We have the value.
1:27:30
SPEAKER_03: We don't need to search for it.
1:27:31
SPEAKER_03: We just need to come home.
1:27:33
So if we just do that and we have trust in the process,
1:27:36
I promise you love will come.
1:27:42
SPEAKER_02: Believe in love.
1:27:43
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
1:27:44
SPEAKER_02: You have value.
1:27:45
SPEAKER_02: That's very beautiful.
1:27:47
SPEAKER_02: Well said.
1:27:49
SPEAKER_02: Fonette,
1:27:51
a question that I ask all of my guests is if you could only
1:27:55
give us one advice,
1:27:57
SPEAKER_02: only one advice of all the books you've read,
1:28:01
SPEAKER_02: your wonderful experience,
1:28:04
SPEAKER_02: everything you know,
1:28:05
SPEAKER_02: only one advice for a better,
1:28:07
SPEAKER_02: more meaningful life.
1:28:09
SPEAKER_02: What would it be?
1:28:10
SPEAKER_03: To me, I'm spiritual, so I need to blend that in now.
1:28:15
SPEAKER_03: And that is to trust in the process.
1:28:18
Because the advice that I'm giving here is even if I do
1:28:22
something wrong-ish today...
1:28:26
SPEAKER_03: I do it today because I'm trusting that was what I needed to do.
1:28:31
SPEAKER_03: I thought it was the right thing to do today.
1:28:34
SPEAKER_03: Maybe tomorrow I can realize it was not.
1:28:37
But then I need to trust my process in this and learn from it
1:28:41
and grow from it.
1:28:42
SPEAKER_03: Because the past is the past.
1:28:44
SPEAKER_03: And we can only learn from that.
1:28:46
SPEAKER_03: Don't have anxiety.
1:28:48
SPEAKER_03: Learn from it.
1:28:49
And the future,
1:28:50
you know,
1:28:50
go into that with a vision and not with anxiety.
1:28:54
SPEAKER_03: So we have to be more in the now.
1:28:57
SPEAKER_03: So when we trust in the process, we can build self-esteem.
1:29:00
SPEAKER_03: When we build self-esteem, we can receive.
1:29:04
SPEAKER_03: And holding love, that is the thing.
1:29:07
SPEAKER_03: Can you hold it?
1:29:09
SPEAKER_03: Because most of my clients cannot hold love.
1:29:11
SPEAKER_03: They think they can, but they cannot.
1:29:13
SPEAKER_03: With this process that I just said, you can hold love.
1:29:16
SPEAKER_03: And when you can hold love, it will attract it to you.
1:29:21
SPEAKER_03: And that goes for everything in life.
1:29:24
SPEAKER_03: If you can hold it.
1:29:27
SPEAKER_02: Trust the process.
1:29:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
1:29:31
Janette,
1:29:31
if people would like to learn more about you,
1:29:33
where can they find you?
1:29:34
SPEAKER_03: Everywhere.
1:29:36
with my name it's my website it's my social media everything is
1:29:41
uh so if you just
1:29:43
add that so you you can see me everywhere with that just my
1:29:47
name i'll do that i'll
1:29:48
add you in the show and the show notes janet it has been
1:29:51
wonderful having you here
1:29:52
today you've said some things that have stuck with me you've
1:29:56
said that love is not
1:29:57
SPEAKER_02: transactional you've talked about attachment styles and
1:30:01
SPEAKER_02: You also said something that I find very fascinating and interesting.
1:30:05
SPEAKER_02: Be healed before mindset.
1:30:08
SPEAKER_02: So healing before mindset.
1:30:11
SPEAKER_02: And I like that idea also of self accountability first.
1:30:16
SPEAKER_02: And also trust the process.
1:30:20
SPEAKER_02: Please continue to do what you do.
1:30:22
SPEAKER_02: We really need you in this world.
1:30:25
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
1:30:25
SPEAKER_03: And right back at you.
1:30:27
SPEAKER_03: Of course.
1:30:28
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
1:30:30
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for listening to Speaking of Meaning.
1:30:33
SPEAKER_02: If today's episode helped you seek communication in a new way,
1:30:37
SPEAKER_02: share it with someone you care about,
1:30:39
SPEAKER_02: a friend,
1:30:40
SPEAKER_02: a partner or a colleague who wants to grow.
1:30:43
SPEAKER_02: And don't forget to follow the podcast so you never miss an episode.
1:30:47
SPEAKER_02: I'm Ibrahim.
1:30:48
SPEAKER_02: Until next time, better communication, greater impact.