Latest / The Front / Gaza City invasion: Inside the tactics of Israel and Hamas

Transcript

Gaza City invasion: Inside the tactics of Israel and Hamas · The Front

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: It's Monday, August twenty five, twenty twenty five. It's a
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: real life medical drama. One of the most powerful doctors' unions,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: the Royal College of Physicians, has exploded into infighting, threats
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: of resignation, contested allegations of bullying and claims of a
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: boys club culture. That's an exclusive live right now at
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: the Australian dot Com dot Au. Taiwan is accusing Australia
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: of buckling to Chinese pressure to shut it out of
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: a regional trade agreement. That's as China demands the world
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: acknowledge its right to take back what it considers a
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: rogue province. A weekend of protests and high drama as
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: the world awaits Israel's promised takeover of Gaza City as
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Benjamin Nettania, who denies the UN's claim of famine in
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Gaza now Hamas, reportedly wants to revive stalled ceasefire negotiations
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: by agreeing to release hostages it's been holding since the
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: October seven terror attacks. Today, Chief International Correspondent Cameron Stewart
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: joins me to explain the military and diplomatic strategies at
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: play in the vibrant democracy that is Israel. Protesters express
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: fears for the hostages still held by Hamas terrorists in Gaza.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump suggests some of them may already be dead.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: What they had to go through is incredible. But so
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: now they have twenty. But the twenty is actually probably
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: not twenty, because a couple may be find around any longer.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: It's a terrible thing.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: As the United Nations declares a famine, it is a famine,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: the Gaza famine, and the office of Prime Minister Benjamin Nettiner,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: who angrily decries that claim as a blood libel. As
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: more protests unfold on the streets of Brisbane and Sydney,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: the world is waiting to see what Israel's promised invasion
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: of Gaza City will actually look like and whether it
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: will help reach Israel's war goals, free the hostages and
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: eliminate har mass leadership for good.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: The situation has to end. It's extortion, and it has
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: to end, and we'll see what happens. I actually think
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: they're safer in many ways. If you went in and
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: you really went in fast, and you did.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: It I asked Chief International Correspondent Cameron Stewart to step
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: through the three streams of what's happening in Gaza. Dispute
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: about a humanitarian crisis, Israel's threatened invasion of Gaza City,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: and first the stall negotiations in Qatar between Israel and Hamas.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Remember just a month ago we were about to have
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: a sixty day ceasefire and the release of ten hostages.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: What can we discern right now about Israel's position?
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Well, Netnia, who has not actually given his response, Hamas
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: surprisingly came back and said they were now willing to
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: take this deal that releasing ten living hostages is only
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: thought to be twenty living hostages left in return for
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: a sixty day ceasefire, and of course the release of
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. That's almost precisely the exact same
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: deal that they rejected, clear just a matter of weeks ago.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: But the question is now where a Netnia has moved
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: beyond that? Will he accept that he's under pressure to
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: accept that by a largess proportion of the Israeli population.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: But subsequent to Hamas saying no, he has said we
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: are now going to take Gaza militarily. So we don't
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: know whether net Nyahu is going to be tempted by
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: this supposed seaspire offered by Hermas or whether he has
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: just gone beyond that and he's just going to try
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: and keep going and destroy her Musk militarily through taking
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: over Gaza City.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Thinking about that tactically, from Hermas's point of view, cam
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: what's going on there? What's their strategy?
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Their strategy is puzzling in the sense that you can
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: ask why they didn't take this deal when Israel was
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: very keen to take the deal just a few weeks ago.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, you can take the line that they now
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: feel under more pressure because subsequent to that is when
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Netnia who said he was going to take over Gaza,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: there are preparations on the outskirts of Gaza City at
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: the moment, whether the Israeli military the IDF is actually
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: making inroads slowly, so from a Mussa's point of view,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: they are under more pressure than they were previously. But
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: that's the only reason that you can think of why
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: they've suddenly come to the table now when they did
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: in a couple of weeks ago with exactly the same proposal.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Her Maas's goal since October seven, has been to shame
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Israel internationally, to provoke Israel into a response that it
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: knew would make Israel look bad in the eyes of
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: the world. The new development, of course, is that countries
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: like Australia, France, the United Kingdom are saying that they're
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: going to recognize Palestine at the United Nations. Is it
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: possible that this is a delaying tactic by Hamas to
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: keep the humanitarian crisis going until at least that's happened.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: It is possible because Imus honestly does not care at
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: all about the suffering of the Palestinian people. It's the
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: one that reaped all of this habit with the October
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: seven attack on Israelis In twenty twenty three, it has
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: consistently done everything it can to maximize the Suberian casualties.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: With its behavior, it could easily let out the hostages
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: in the war tomorrow. People often forget that Hamas, we
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: must remember, is not a very coordinated body at the moment.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: It is very much damaged by the Israeli attacks. Many
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: of its commanders are killed. It's not even certain how
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: coherent the decision making body within HAMAS is at the moment,
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: there's no AMAS police on in Gazara inim where they
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: are not governing the territory in any way whatsoever. Hamas
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: does not put its head above the parapet in any
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: way at all. So it's very hard to know exactly
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: what's going on in Hamasa's mind and exactly who are
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: those minds, who are those commanders, And I think even
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Israel has trouble really knowing who to speak to in
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Hamas these days.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: The United Nations declared on Friday for the first time
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: that there is a famine in northern Gaza, talking about
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: five hundred and fourteen thousand people, which is about a
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: quarter of the people in the Gaza Strip, are experiencing famine.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: That number is growing. Israel is absolutely denying this. It's
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: taking issue with one of the measures that the UN
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: is using. The UN is using upper arm circumference measures.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Israel says that's unfair because in the past when assessing
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: famine they've used to wait for height index. The issue
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: here cam is about the flow of aid into Gaza
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: and what's happening to that aid once it gets in.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Isn't it Viously on the front we've talked about how
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Israel made the decision to stop the existing system, which
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: was the UN distributing aid because they believe so much
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: of it was being stolen by Hamas. What do we
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: know now about the current distribution of aid and whether
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: or not it's working well.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: There's still a lot of contested issues here, Claire. Certainly
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Israel has tried to increase the inflow of aid into Garza,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: but United Nations says that this is very limited, too little,
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: too late. It also accuses Israel of continuing to block
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: the roots where those UN trucks can go in there.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: That's one bed, but the second aspect is that the
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: hunger levels are such that often when those trucks do
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: go in there, they actually do get attacked by either
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: desperate people or by criminals. Criminals who steal the aid
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: and then resell it for a profit. Hammas is certainly
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: guilty of that to some extent as well. No one
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: really knows exactly how much food a mass is stealing,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: but very few people would deny that they are stealing
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: at least some of it. So Israel has now opened
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: up the gates of Gaza to some extent to und liveries.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: But the trouble is that there's going to have to
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: be a lot more to actually offset the humanitarian crisis,
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: and at the moment that tap has not been turned
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: on to anything like the degree it needs to, and
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: that's why we've still got the severe problems we are
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: seeing in Gaza. Clearly there is a humanitarian crisis there,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: and the television pictures to speak for themselves.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Coming up, what Israel's promised takeover of Gaza City will
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: look like? Can let's talk about what the invasion of
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Gaza City would actually look like. The IDF says presently
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: that it controls seventy five percent of the Gaza strip
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: that was achieved under an operation it called Gideon's Chariots.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: This is called Gideon's Chariots two. It's called up two
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: thousand reservists and extended the terms of twenty thousand personnel
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: who were serving. Some people are on their fifth or
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: sixth tour of Gaza now people in the IDF. So
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: how do we think the IDF will actually execute an
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: invasion of Gaza City.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Well, we haven't make an assumption there that this is
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: actually Benjamin Netie as Intention Claire. It is always possible
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: that this is a big statement, and that this is
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: really part of Netne's negotiating strategy with Hamas to flush
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: them out. The fact that the IDEF would go into
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Gaza City, such a big city, is such a crucial city,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: and a city where a lot of the remnants of
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Hamas are reportedly staying, is a huge thing. And so
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: I think it's not at all certain that this is
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: an operation that will necessarily go ahead, but as we speak,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: certainly preparations look like they're taking place. What's happened is
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: the IDF has secured the outskirts of Gaza City. Israel
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: said that it will evacuate the city. That call has
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: not come as yet, but that would be a big
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: and a difficult process for a lot of people in
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: the city, who of course have been evacuated several times before.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: And it's a dangerous operation. I mean that has been
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: reported that the head of the Idea of was opposed
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: to the operation because quite clearly it puts a lot
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: of Israeli soldiers at risk, which obviously cause more civilian casualties.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: But Netniel is adamant that is the only way really
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: to try and mop up, if you like, the remnants
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: of Hamas.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's possible if Ntnia who does go
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: ahead with that, that he has made the decision that
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: there is no getting these hostages back. Maybe some of
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: those twenty are dead, they're never going to actually be
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: able to retrieve them, and that they may end up
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: being casualties of this tactic.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: It is always possible he's made that unspoken assumption. Donald
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Trump interestingly said that he actually believes going in will
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: potentially increase the chances of getting the hostages back, because
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: negotiations are not succeeding in that front. But you would
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: have to think logically that it would put the hostages
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: under greater danger to have this sort of actual ground offensive.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: But that's the big debate in Israel at the moment,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: of course, something we've seen very big demonstrations on the
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: streets of Israel over this weekend. The people who want
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: the war to end and the hostages to be released.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: In other words, negotiated settlement with Hamas are increasing in Israel,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: and that's obviously putting pressure on Benjamin Netanya who as well.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: But look Netna, who is certainly a very determined character,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: and we are not seeing him appear to buckle under
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: that pressure roule. He certainly is stating in his public
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: comments that he's going ahead with the assault on Gaza
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: City and he does intend for the idea to take
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: over Gaza, That's what he's saying. At least.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: Critics of both Netanya Who and of Hamas say that
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: neither of them actually want this war to end. What
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: do you think about that?
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: I think Benjamin Nya, who he's had a lot of
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: strategic success in the last two years. He's destroyed Hezbalah
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: in Lebanon, He's cowered Iran, he has done some remarkable
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: things for Israel's security under the circumstances. But I think
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: in Gaza, Claire Netna, who is struggling to work out
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: how best to get peace to get to that zone,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: because his actual static claims for victory is to destroy
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Hamas and remove them from power. And the question really
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: is being asked increasingly is it possible to actually completely
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: destroy a militant group like Amas. I mean, they're going
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: to be ragtag militants. How do you actually destroy them properly?
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Is that possible? And of course, if Netna who were
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: to accept a hostage release deal for Israel's withdrawal as
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Hamas wants. If he was to accept that, that would
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: be an imperfect piece for him, because his actual stated
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: aim from the very day one, on October eighth, twenty
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: twenty three, was Hermas must be removed from power, demilitarized
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: and expelled from Gaza, and that just hasn't happened, and
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: it's not easy to see how it can happen. And
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: from Amasa's perspective, they don't want the water to win
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: because they will cease to exist. There is no tomorrow
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: for Hamas once this war ends, so they clearly have
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: a stake also in continuing fight for as long as
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: they reasonably can, especially when every single month of this
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: operation tends to isolate is around more on the international stage.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Cameron Stewart is The Australian's chief international correspondent. This conflict
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: moves fast, and so does The Australian, with our network
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: of correspondents around the world bringing us subscribers the latest
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: around the clock. Join us at the Australian dot com
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: dot au